Why is there no Silmarillion movie?
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- Опубліковано 5 лис 2023
- In this video, we'll look at why there hasn't been a Silmarillion movie or TV series, the rights situation, and the potential difficulties if a project ever got the green light.
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Sup everyone. I've been told the audio sounds a bit different to usual so if you've noticed it, please let me know so I can work on figuring out what to change. And apologies about my voice in this one, I'm not at 100% so I sound a bit lifeless. Thanks.
I would like a silmarillion anime😊 I think that would be really cool just know if it was ever an anime every girl in the series would have their chests
Palpatine says some would consider unnatural😅😂
If I could change a few things I would keep Fëanor alive for the series
@@dominicadrean2160 It sounds to me like you do not want a Silmarillion adaptation at all.
Now to go drink a bottle of whiskey and try to forget the diarrhea-spatter of words that I just read . . .
@Disgruntled_Grunt well being autistic I can't drink alcohol that's actually extremely dangerous for being autistic person😅
and if you don't like my wordings of my comment I use voice typing so not everything comes out alright or maybe they're writing you're used to
And I was just playing on a obvious one if you make an anime of the silmarillion yeah
the anime writers will be a faithful as possible but knowing anime writers in all forms they do tend to make women figures quite so not natural😅
And I just said I would like Fëanor to be around because that's a very interesting subject but he doesn't have to be
There's always going to be changes to everything of The Lord of the Rings nothing is ever going to be a perfect
version of the writing and story that Tolkien wrote I mean Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings isn't at all did and many scholars of Tolkien agree he most likely would have never liked the movies😅
@@Disgruntled_Grunthope you got my comment
Why not a company gives them resources so they make a movie/what they need, without selling the right and they will make sure work is respected. They could hire an anime studio to do it. It will 100% brake anime world which is big nowadays.
I think to do the Silmarillion even somewhat justice, you would need to launch an entire cinematic universe. Basically a TV series that is interrupted by the movies about the standalone books. The upfront investment would be insane, even more so considering that it is questionable if it could make enough money.
Even if the rights were for sale right now, movie studios are becoming much more reluctant to just throw massive sums of money on something, so I don't think they would want to try.
I would make it into anime but one thing I would really change would be Fëanor stays alive because he's such an interesting character and I really want him to make amazing works that Middle Earth has never seen before and just never got to see because he died too early
It would have to be not-for-profit. There's just no other way you could start such a project with the expectation of making money off it. Being non-profit would probably be the only way to secure the rights as well.
@@dominicadrean2160yeah but Feanor staying alive would change EVERYTHING.
Yes if you were to adapt it you would definitely need a TV to get all the amazing details in .
I think the best solution would be something like The Animatrix, an animated anthology with a bunch of different directors taking over their own chunks. The tone of the book is radically different from chapter to chapter, so it would be good to have that represented in the presentation.
Yeah no they made one crappy animation movie in 78 don't need another lot of them.
to be fair animation technology already vastly improved since then@@firesideshats
@firesideshats you're seriously using a 40 year old project to try and argue that they shouldn't produce ANY animated content whatsoever?
Silmarillion adaptation ideas;
The captivity of Melkor
The crafting of the silmarils
The rise of Morgoth & darkening of the world
The first kinslaying and the doom of Mandos
The siege of angband
Beren and luthien
The union of Maedhros
The fall of Gondolin
The war of wrath
The rings of power
The darkening of Númenor
The war of the last alliance
Bru wheres is my lad Turin at
@@tin-headgaming2473yo this!
@@tin-headgaming2473bruh we definitely need some children or hurin slapped in there
The Silmarillion has no adaptation. The Silmarillion needs no adaptation.
It really does, I read the book in high school and it was very confusing. Tolkien has a way with words but his works aren’t meant for people with short attention spans.
I agree, still what alienated me most in "Rings of Power" was the constant frustating wriggling around Silmarillion content. My expectation was they'd refer often and embed some stories.
@@Brandanus, if I understand correctly they couldn’t reference anything that was only in the Sil… so it was basically an “alternative guess” as what the story could have been based on the appendix to RotK.
@@conorhoward5131 yep, exactly that. iirc in the series Galadriel mentions the Noldor returning to Middle Earth and she was not allowed to say "Helcaraxe". They should have added a warning "Contains zero Silmarillion content, we have to make things up. you were warned."
It would be great as a 10-15 episode show.
Guitar Hero: Ainulindalë
I think the only way you could really adapt "The Silmarillion" to any sort of visual media, in way that would be affordable and could hang together as a coherent story through multiple episodes/movies/whatever, would be to keep it laser-focused on the story of the Silmarils. You'd essentially have to distill down the Quenta Silmarillion into its main story through-line and build around that. So, Feanor creates them, Morgoth and Ungoliant destroy the Trees, the Valar want to use them to recreate the Trees or something like them, Feanor refuses, Morgoth takes them, Feanor swears his oath, and then we follow the major beats of the rest of the Quenta Silmarillion. Even then, a lot of stuff would have to be put aside, as wonderful as it is. Anything not directly related to the Silmarils would have to go. Things like the respective falls of Doriath and Gondolin, for instance, would probably have to be removed, or handled abstractly in some way, with most of it happening off-screen.
All of which would be, to Tolkien purists, pretty controversial to say the least. On the other hand, to be commercially successful, it would need to draw in non-fans, so the plot pretty much has to be dramatically slimmed down and focused on just a handful of characters--because, honestly, people who aren't already fans of the work simply aren't likely to engage with a story so complex, with so many characters spanning so many events that it makes A Song of Ice and Fire look like a school play. And this point, is it really the Silmarillion anymore? The LotR movies worked well even while leaving out Bombadil, but his story was pretty discrete and not really woven into the greater plot. In the case of the Silmarillion, though, huge chunks would just have to go, and be written around. I mean, the entirety of the Ainulindalë and Valaquenta would pretty much have to be reduced to a few lines of opening narration. At this point, I'm not sure that the result would be something that people would want.
The Silmarillion might just be a story best left told in Tolkien's own words, on paper, rather than in some visual medium.
I 100% agree. I was on board for a long time with having The Silmarillion be a tv show but after seeing Dune Part 2 earlier today I have such a desire to see the whole silmaril arc adapted into a movie or maybe two because it would be beyond epic and like Dune I don’t think tv would sell that epicness as it deserves. I mean Fingolfin vs Morgoth, Feanor swearing the oath and the Noldor all ralllying NEEDS to be on film. And I agree The Children of Hurin for example should also be it’s own 1 or 2 movies. Maybe Fall of Gondolin and Beren and Luthien can be a limited series for television like Matt Reeves is doing with The Penguin.
Absolutely, there cannot be a Silmarillion movie for the reasons you identified. I think I show would be possible but extremely difficult. What I would love to see is the Tolkien Estate sell the rights to make movies from Silmarillion content, but to have fans/scholars heavily involved in the adaptation process so we can avoid another Amazon debacle.
Beren & Luthien is a movie (the original would make a fun animation too).
There is definitely at least one Turin movie to be made.
I think there is a Gondolin trilogy: the first being Tuor’s early life and journey to Gondolin, the second being the betrayal and fall of Gondolin, and the third being Earendil’s journey and the War of Wrath.
If these are successes’ maybe go back and make an antihero movie about Fëanor.
Basically I’d just choose the best stories to adapt to film rather than trying to mess around with all the characters, events, and lengths of time.
Despite I often wondered how the great stories of the First Age could be adapted into films or TV series, I’m afraid it would be far too complex . My main fear is that it would be impossible to make the stories of the First Age palatable to a general audience. All the characters whom the audience could empathise with died and the danger is that the stories could be misrepresented to satisfy audience expectations
This is a good thing! I would love a director willing to write a proper Greek tragedy. We are starved for these types of screenplays. Some of the best films ever created don't end in happy endings. Children of Men, The Shining, No Country for Old Men, and There Will Be Blood are a few that come to mind off the top of my head. The core of the Silmarillion is all about bittersweet endings, trying to change that would ruin these stories.
Eg like more Galadriel-type, kickass boss-girls, social media friendly diversity myth/fantasies? Please no.....
It simply would not be for the general audience, there’s LOTR fans all over the globe we would spend enough money just us to make them their money back, plus all the newcomers over the years that pick out the movie or book and become fans. They need to make movies as close to the books as they can and also for the fans. They can afford it!!
comic books were also difficult to adapt to a general audience, but they did.
You would get africans as main characters portraying elves
The story of Beren and Luthian would make a great stand alone show/movie. They could pretty much adapt it as is and would not need to do stuff like collapse the timeline, etc, to make it usable.
Maybe they should do a "Tales of Middle Earth" set of projects over several years. Some short, some episodic.
The problems of a screen adaptation, at least for me, are the depictions of Eru Illuvatar and the Valar. I mean, they could always find a way to depict them in the form of actors. But there's something ethereal about them that's hard to even imagine to manifest. Almost divine-like if you will.
I seriously hope that non of these crappy companies get ahold of the rights. They'd just butcher it trying to make it "for modern audiences" instead of for the fans.
Seazone 1 Rise of Feanor
Seazone 2 Sige of Angband
Seazone 3 Beren and Luthien
Seazone 4 Union of Meadhros
Seazone 5 Children of Hurin
Seazone 6 Ruin of Doriath
Seazone 7 Fall of Gondolin
Seazone 8 War of Wrath
Tolkien envisioned the Silmarillion as multiple texts written by different authors. If I did an adaptation, I would lean on that. A TV project would be best. Some stories could be hand-drawn, others fully CGI, and the big ones, like Beren and Lúthien, in live actions. Have Sam or his daughter Elanor, the first keepers of the Read Book, do the narration.
This would be extraordinarily difficult to do even if the rights were made available mostly because finding the right group of people with the understanding of and respect for Tolkien's work would be very hard. But for the sake of discussion, I think it would best be done as series of somewhat connected TV shows using Arda (mostly Beleriand of course) as the common setting. Each show would cover one or more distinct events that Tolkien wrote about. Some shows would be relatively short, perhaps on the order of 8 episodes while others would require 2-3 seasons. Even so, it would be particularly challenging to do the Ainulindalë and the overall creation story.
Specific sections like:
Beren & Luthien
Children of Hurin
Could work quite well.
Agreed.
There's really no such thing as The Silmarillion.
Better to think of a collection of Legends of Middle - earth, each of which could be adapted by a different director so you get an appropriate variety of styles.
The Children of Hurin isn't at all the same sort of story as Earendil's Voyage.
I think, in the event that the rights to the Silmarillion leave the Tolkien Estate, a tv show would be better suited to adapt the Silmarillion. I can imagine each season tackling one set of the interconnected stories. Like one season could showcase the creation of Arda and the initial conflicts between Melkor and the other Valar, another could tell the story of Feanor and his family, another could tell the story of Beren and Luthien, and so on and so forth. Just don't let Amazon touch it.
Years ago when I first heard about the Silmarillion and Morgoth, my first thought was, "I would love for Peter Jackson to do a movie about them". Then after the hobbit movies came out I was like okay not the best but theirs still a chance, then I remember hearing years later (sometime around 2015/2016) a LOTR show/film was being made but didn’t say who it was from at the time. I knew anything after the trilogy that came out was gonna be shit in comparison, but damn did i call it when i heard amazon was making the series with a billion dollar budget and knew instantly it wasn't worth the time of day.
I have always been somebody who wants 1:1 adaptions of books into movies with as little deviations as possible, no matter the cost.
that's pretty much impossible for almost all books unless you want an unreasonable amount of sequels.
If it were to be adapted into film, the Silmarillion should be adapted into several trilogies following specific characters and events in the Silmarillion. The same should be applied if the Silmarillion were to be adapted into a show.
Your outro stuck out to me.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the three main stories that could be adapted out of the book that are self contained enough to have their own fulfilling conclusions while still being part of the over arching book.
Instead of an exposition dump to start out any of them a prelude movie featuring Feanor learning about the song of creation from Aule, and featuring his own arch from rise to fall could set the foundation for the other three, and other side projects to round ot out.
If Amazon messing up as bad as they did opened the door for some creative competition, which might yield better things then their own botched attempt at the IP
If there was or even a mini series they'd probably Go all power of the rings.
Luthien would be like a elven Xena type 😅
melanin rich, lesbian and using a wheelchair, but still two halberd weilding acrobatic fighting style.
4:00 Obviously the Silmarillion could be adapted. The simplest solution though, is not to adapt the whole thing, but just parts of it. For example, you could do a movie just about the tale of Beren & Luthien, which I think could be great. Or a movie about Feanor and his quest to recover the Silmarils. The silmarillion is a collection of stories. So you could adapt just the story or stories you want. You don't have to adapt the whole thing.
The fall of Arnor is a almost unaddapteble story
I'd settle for an animated short of Fingolfin vs Morgoth.
Me too - Now news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of Finarfin overthrown, and that the sons of Fëanor were driven from their lands. Then Fingolfin beheld the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat.
And Morgoth came.
I am soooo not used to your voice with the new mic :D
Those three main stories aside, I think either series or triology for the Fëanorians (or just the House of Finwë) in general post-exile of the noldor could serve as a complementary work...though by that logic you'd just be making a cinematic universe...maybe a videogame series focused on the characters would be best.
I think galadriel would be a better choice as the character to follow because she is one of the only main characters in middle earth in the third age who survives beleriand. Also Blanchett's prologue voice is just perfect for this. It would be a story of the silmarillion from her perspective. Heck she is even present during Feanor's time and follows him into beleriand. Then you can have side characters who interact with her from stories where she doesn't appear, to ensure continuity, a long lived elf who dies during the sinking of beleriand might work for this. You can link all the stories like this without altering canon. I however suspect that this sort of thing won't be a success on the first try. It would require many failed attempts to perfect and I agree with you that animation should count as the first attempt.
I'm happy them being kept as books and not being adeptated for tv or film as we all know they will be ruined
Please no! Nothing that could be put on screen could even come close to doing it justice..
Vin Diesel Silmarillion all about family is something I didn't know I needed until this video.
One of the major problems facing any attempt to adapt the Silmarillion is much of it is dark. The first age Melkor corrupts & dominates Middle Earth, the second age deals with thedecline and fall of Numenor and the third is Sauron's domination of ME and the end of that has already been dealt with.
I would love some LOTR prequel stories though.. For example Helm Hammer-hand.. The story takes place at Helms deep, so there would be enough member berries for casual audience and it could be a great war movie, that doesnt have such high stakes as LOTR trilogy, but is some nice background on the history of Rohan..
I agree that games would be far easier. I for one think the first age would make a great setting for a "Shadow of Beleriand" game. Given the sheer amount of dreadful enemies there would be (especially as morgoth gains more control): vampires, werewolves, dragons and balrogs plural! Also the amazing locations across the world of the eldar days would fit such a game perfectly.
If they stick with the elf wraith style of protagonist you could even play as the spirit of feanor, unable to let go of life due to his obsession with the silmarils, possessing various unfortunates in his quest to recover them. This would allow the player to witness many of the great events acros the centuries throughout the age
Christopher Tolkien has indicated in interviews that he dislikes pop culture's portrayal of his father's work.
I think it would best be done as an anthology like show. Similar to Marvels What if show or Netflix Love Death+ Robots. It could be done as CGI, traditional live action or puppets depending on the visual style the creator wanted. I can imagine the Dagor-nuin-Giliath as an highly stylized non-stop animation with an epic soundtrack and no dialogue for example. Maybe an entire episode is just Beren meeting Luthien and falling in Love as a Live action piece.
Adaption is when something has been changed by its environment. Adaptation is changing or updating something to make it better or more functional in a different setting.
There are several individual cohesive Silmarillion film projects to be made:
(1) The Feanor movie.
It begins in the bliss of Valinor, Feanor's happy family life with Nerdanel and their sons, and his creation of the Silmarils. It moves on tragically to his conflict with Fingolfin, the murder of the Trees, the murder of Finwe and theft of the Silmarils, the Oath, the Kinslaying, the separation from his wife, the flight of the Noldor, and finally the victorious Dagor-nuin-Giliath and Feanor's death fighting the Balrogs. The ending hints at his future repentance as he contemplates his life, disembodied, in the Halls of Mandos.
(2) The Beren and Luthien movies. This story should be two movies, because there is a lot of plot in the story and there are two climactic conclusions.
The first one begins with a prologue showing Thingol and Melian the Maia falling in love (paralleling Beren's later love for Luthien, a higher-order being than himself). The main story begins with the early outlaw life of Beren, and moves on to Beren and Luthien meeting and falling in love, and Thingol sending Beren on the quest of the Silmaril. It moves on to Beren and Finrod setting out from Nargothrond and their capture by Sauron. The movie ends with Finrod fulfilling his oath and sacrificing himself to protect Beren, and Luthien's triumph over Sauron.
The second movie follows Beren and Luthien's journey into Angband, their capture of the Silmaril from Morgoth, the epic hunt for Carcharoth, and Beren's death. It ends with Luthien's plea before Mandos for Beren's life, and her choice to live a mortal life happily forever after until the end of their days.
(3) The epic Turin and Tuor long-form TV show. The contrast between the cousins Turin and Tuor, the one's tragic string of failures and the other's happy and successful life, has always fascinated me. This would make for a GREAT Game of Thrones style TV show with two separate and contrasted storylines told at once.
It begins with a prologue showing their fathers Hurin and Huor's short visit to Gondolin, their capture and death in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and the curse that Morgoth placed on Hurin and his family. This foreshadows the tragedy to come. This contrasts with Huor telling Turgon that "from you and me, a star will arise", a hopeful foreshadowing of Earendil.
The main story begins with Turin and Tuor as outlaws, with Tuor ending up in Gondolin and Turin in Nargothrond. It contrasts Tuor's wise preparation for the inevitable fall of Gondolin, with Turin's arrogant leadership in Nargothrond that caused its destruction. It also contrasts the happy love of Tuor and Idril, with the tragic unrequited love of Finduilas for Turin.
Then it moves on to the Battle of Tumhalad, the fall of Nargothrond, Glaurung's lies to Turin that cause him to abandon Finduilas. This is meanwhile contrasted with the joyful birth of Earendil to Tuor and Idril in Gondolin, while Maeglin betrays the location of the city to Morgoth.
Then finally there is the tragic mistaken love of Turin and his sister Nienor, the slaying of Glaurung and their deaths. This is contrasted with Tuor and Idril's escape with their son from the fall of Gondolin, and ends with a happy and hopeful foreshadowing of Earendil's voyage of repentance on behalf of Elves and Men.
I find it hard to imagine a full adaptation would be any good. Not only are the characters not fleshed out, at times the story is brought out almost like bullet points. To make this into a good movie, the director and screenwriters would have to be incredibly talented writers in their own right. It's not like the LOTR movies, where almost everything can be taken straight from the books. I can't think of anyone who could do this, especially in this age of horrible cinema we're currently going through.
The only way i could see the Music of the Ainur and the Years of the Lamps being done would be if it was similar to 2001 A Space Odyssey. Specifically when Dave leaves the ship and goes into the colourful vortex.
I think everything including the introductions of Illuvatar and the valar and the songs and such could be done. It would however have to be a new and unique approach of abstract story telling. It would have to be written and directed by a visionary artist.
It can have some heavy music direction as Fantasia by Disney. Maybe the whole aulindale is just sung by an invisible choir and Orchestra. The video follows the stages of the creation
@@user-bb5mb8qp3n for sure, at least the beginning. Maybe do a 3 film thing and the first could be fantasia style as you mentioned.
Really good question
Considering the Silmarillion is less of its own story, and more so a history of middle earth:
I always imagined any adaptation would inevitably have to take the form of something like a documentary.
i think adapting only the three main stories (beren and luthien, childre of hurin, and fall of gondolin) should be enough, maybe with war of wrath as epilogue also and the rest of silmarilion explained in prologue.
I suspect that the Tolkien Estate will hang onto the Silmarillion rights for as long as possible. Personally, after the debacle of the ROP last year I certainly hope so. Unless the rights could be sold with the stipulation that modern themes of the 21st century are banned, I never want to see the rights sold or the stories corrupted. I certainly don't want Amazon anywhere near the Silmarillion. 😢😢😢
The only way to do Silmarillion adaptation for film would be to do at least a 10 season TV show. Now the question is do you start with the creation of the world or start before the first age with the Valar already in Middle Earth forming its shape and the battle thyevhave with Melcore and the destruction of the two lamps. Leading into a second season with the creation of the two trees and the creation of the Silmarills after the awakening of the elves at the beginning of the first age. These season would have to go back to being the length of true TV shows between 27 and 35 episodes in length at 45+ min a peace.
How on Earth could that EVER be filmed!!! We’d be in the theater for a week!!!!!!!
"The Silmarillion" would need to be a five-movie series, at least: the Build-Up (maybe in two films?), Beren and Luthien, the Children of Hurin, the Fall of Gondolin, the Resolution (the fall of Doriath, the ruin of Beleriand, the Voyage of Earendil, the War of Wrath).
Silmarillion could be divided in 5 movies:
1-Silmarillion: put the music of the Ainur as an intro (like Galadriel narration of 2nd age events in Fellowship) and focus the movie in the story of Feanor and his brothers.
2-Beren and Luthien .
3-The children of Húrin.
4-The fall of Gondolin.
5-The war of the wrath
This one would need a lot of patch work,The Silmarillion passages are too short and there is some stories cut by Christopher (like Turin reviving to fight Ancalagon or Morgoth himself)
An animated show would be the best format for it.
Can we get a middle earth mysteries video for the origins of the nazgul plz?
The Fall of Gondolin could have a more satisfying story arc if you extended it to cover the life of Earendil, and ended it by linking it to a fourth story, the rise and fall of Numenor,
The way I’ve played it out in my head, the Silmarillion would take a minimum of 6 movies to work.
1- Creation to First Sunrise
2- Continuing up to Fingolfin’s Duel
3- Beren & Luthien
4- Children of Hurin
5- Fall of Gondolin
6- War of Wrath
*Get Ian McKellan back for any narrations needed.
"Why is there no Silmarillion movie?" I've always wondered that.
I'd love to see the Valar as characters (albeit properly godly) on screen.
6:09 Considering how insanely bad the "Hammer and bolter", I can't say I have that much hope for a Silmarillion animation. Maybe if some fans made it, we can get something like the crazy good "Astartes" series, funny how a passion project not just was better but utterly humiliated what a multi miljon dollar company managed to nonsensically fart out.
How dare you utter the dark speech here Gandalf, the servants of Morgoth will here you and forge 10 films to destroy us all
1st movie - the creation of the trees silmarils up to Feanor s death
2nd movie - Beren and luthien
3rd movie - children of hurin
4th movie - fall of gondolin
5th movie - 3rd kinslaying up to war of wrath
The rest can be crammed to prologue narrations and expositions
I think the Quenta Silmarillion would be amazing on screen.
But
I suspect the failure of RoP is going to scare people off of Tolkien stories for a while after Amazon fails.
Even the most dedicated and faithful adaptation could never capture the epic scale of each story. And I doubt anyone could ever capture the ainulindale in movie form as well as the book paints it in the imagination
Melkor and the Balrogs vs Ungoliant, yes please. Ancalagon falling, yes
It could be done as a tv series, ala The Walking Dead. 2 series of 6 episodes, over the course of several years. I would be a die hard fan of that, if they stayed true to the story
DG, I got The Silmarillion when it first came out. (I wish I still had my 1st addition with the really cool foldout map on the inside of the back cover.) I read it two or three times during my teenage years, but not because I loved it. I only read it for the light it shown on LOTR. It's really not adaptable to the screen. There are pages and pages of pure exposition, no dramatization whatsoever. And dialogue? Forget about it. The Silmarillion makes LOTR seem like a windy theater-piece in which every character talks extensively. If you were to try and put The Silmarillion into a dramatic form you would have to MAKE UP A WHOLE LOT OF CRAP (using "crap" as a synonym for "stuff"). Do you not understand this? If you tried to adapt it dramatically you would make Amazon's Rings of Power seem like the most faithful screen-adaptation ever of Tolkien's writings. It would make Jackson's outrageous adaptation of The Hobbit seem like a literal transposition from the page to the screen. Is there no island of sanity in this sea of Tolkien fanatics?
It would make an awesome anime series. It would suit that Japanese style, and the stories are totally metal. Have Hugo Weaving do a voice over exposition dump at the beginning and end of each episode, and the more fleshed out stories get multiple episodes...
Yes! Let Uffotable (Fate and Demon Slayer) do it! Have each arc be a season. Something like this.
S1: Quick world-creation episode, then the story of the Noldor up till the flight from Valinor.
S2: Death of Feanor, then go up until the Siege of Angband starts.
S3: The introduction of Men into Beleriand, the last episode is The Battle of Sudden Flame.
S4: The story of Beren and Luthien.
And so on.
no, that would be stupid.
Please no, we don’t need a glorified watered down tv show. Either make it similar to the lotr movies or just leave it as is. A cartoon of the silmarillion would be really dumb.
@@JM00237 Doing it like the movies would be impossibly expensive, notwithstanding the difficulty in casting so many elves. It's an anthology of stories, not a contiguous narrative. Many years back some Old Testament tales were done effectively as half-hour animated shows. There's several anime styles where folk look just like elves, and it tonally fits with darker anime stylings. It's the only way we're gonna get anything remotely close to the book...
@@Klijpo it’s possible they already made the lotr movies. Its just probably not gonna happen, if it does it won’t do it justice because Hollywood pushes agendas and propaganda so it would just ruin it. Peter Jackson should have continued Tolkien’s stories after the first trilogy with the silmarillion during the early/ late 2000s when movies were still decent. An anime would work but it just won’t do the stories justice because it’s animated. Do you remember how amazing the first trilogy was? I want that but with the silmarillion.
There should be an entire council deciding whether or not to give a Tolkien IP to a creative for an adaptation, to stop from ruining such a great work.
Hmm. It'd be super difficult, very much an inconvenience. But it could be done. A super rich fan, maybe... lean on a studio, basically fund the whole thing. But it's more fun to imagine :)
The first movie could start with someone writing at a desk. Galadriel, Elrond, Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, an older Eleanor, the baby from the last LotR scene all grown up, even the secretary of Aragorn and his heir, any of them could work. The writer also provides voice-over narration.
Fade to black. Nothing to be seen. The voice-over introduces Eru, Manwë, Ulmo, Aulë and the real star of the Tolkien Legendarium Cinematic Universe: Melkor/Morgoth. When the narration is about Eru, there's utter silence. No soundtrack, no score, just the words. As it talks about each one, they have their own themes. The audience differentiates who speaks in the dark of the Void by the background. Silence for Eru, the others their respective themes. Then... the Vision. Now, there's visuals. Maybe animation, but better CGI.
After the Ainulindalë, the Valaquenta. Its own movie, I reckon. It'd have to be damn good CG, or perhaps animation. The earliest conflicts between Morgoth and the Valar. Aulë creating the Dwarves. Oh, and we've got to introduce Mairon/Sauron here. Producer Guy's going to love that. 'He's from the other movies!' We could show Olorin.
The main story could be a TV show, long episodes, several seasons. Start at Lake Cuivinen, show the War for the Sake of the Elves in CG, the Great Journey. Then the meat of the Quenta Silmarillion. The wacky adventures of the descendants of Finwë.
There's room for specials, and movies. The founding of Nogrod and Belegost, early contact with the Dwarves; the establishing of Nargothrond and Gondolin; they'd make great specials. Beren and Lúthien, and the Children of Húrin, and the Fall of Gondolin; movie material.
Finally, Eärendil's tale until he convinces the Valar to intervene (with the Third Kinslaying going on) in the TLCU'S 'Infinity War', and the War of Wrath as its 'Endgame'.
Honestly after having reading the silmarillion not long ago,the only ways that the silmarillion and all the books about the first and second age in my opinion can be adopted is by movies at least 16 or in animated series.
You would need a 8-10 season series to do the silmarillion justice
The problem with adapting a lot of the first age stuff into film boils down to suspension of disbelief. The light of the two trees and the silmarils, morgoth and angband and to a certain extent the valat are supposed to ne something otherwordly and uncomprehensable for Men. Seeing characters in a live action movie reacting to this things while seeing just normal stuff on the screen breaks suspension of disbelief really easily. In animation this isn’t the case, as the human mind doesnt have the same kinds of expectations for realism. This is why animating compelling but unrealistic facial expression for animals in the original Lion King works perfectly but couldnt be done in the live action version, as this would just have looked off and strange in an immersion breaking way.
Hi, this was very informative. Thanks for the clarity on this subject.
I personally 100% agree those 3 stories should be the ones to get an adaptation out of the Silmarillion.
Why is there no movie that is 8 weeks in length?
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They should do an animate series similar to Osamu Tezuka's In the Beginning: The Bible Stories.
To do justice to the book you would need countless tv episodes. Having read the book there are so many amazing details that must be included. However i dont believe there will be a film or episodes for all the reasons in the video.
It needs to be a TV series with a budget many times more than The Hobbit was.
I must admit, I trailed off while reading the Sil. It felt like every next story was a watered down version of the last. Less exhalted, more down to earth. It’s only because of the multitude of channels about Tolkien that I learned the depth behind it all. My own imagination is too shallow and short of breath for the job, so thank you for helping out.
I don’t trust any filmmaker to do better than you guys. A series, a long, long, multi season series might do the Sil any justice, but who would take that on as a niche project with a very limited audience?
I’d love it to death, but there’s no box office success in there. And it’d need to be to justify the cost of making it. So: no. I’d rather stick to what is than some half assed attempt that we can only be disappointed with.
As Gandalf went to the archives of Gondor to read cryptic, elusive scrolls about the one ring, let it be that one pure thing. Cinema is just too much to ask.
Although. There is a movie from Marion Bradley’s Mysts of Avalon, a 1000 page novel, that kept close enough to the book to be authentic. It can be done, even if it surely never made a profit. Hm.
I wouldn't worry about struggling with the Silmarillion. It's definitely not an easy read if you aren't just straight up into worldbuilding.
I want to see something from the Silmarillion. Be it Beren and Luthien or Turin Turambar. Actually Turin Turambar. That story, BUT it is set in 1970's Harlem. I want to see that film or TV series.
Or Beren and Luthien but directed by Wes Anderson. That would be interesting.
So hear me out on this....
Ten Silmarillion movies.... with Vin Diesel as Galadriel. Tell me that wouldn't be fire.
6 seasons and the movie of the war of wrath being at the end of the show
Because the Silmarillion takes place over 450 Valian years (either 10:1 or 144:1 depending), plus 590 solar years for the First Age alone.
Even if there was an adaption, i'd still probably just watch lore dumps on youtube since they are so interesting, while the adaption would also have to focus on making money and explaining stuff to the casuals
The Silm Film Project convinced me a TV series adaptation of the Silmarillion can be done well. It has its problems, but it's a good enough proof of concept. Doesn't mean we will actually see any (decent) adaptation of the Silmarillion, of course.
There was a rumor that Amazon recently got some rights to the Silmarillion for the second season?
Why is no one talking about a Tom Bombadil movie, is my Q!
I could totally see them getting * Guillermo del Toro * to adapt those two poems into * one * long-ish film (ha ha),
with I think only some minimal fleshing out being necessary.
GdT was of course set up to make those Hobbit movies.
Bring 60 year old Elijah Wood back to play Frodo!
I just want Peter Jackson to do a Children of Hurin movie, I could die happy if I saw that. If i was to watch an adaptation i would like to see it kind of sorta like the disney shows. A few shows that build into the movie. It could be done right, but im not holding ny breath
Gonna need at least 20+ movies. I prefer movies and no series. Better introduction and appreciation to each characters.
The Silmarillion would work well as a docu-fiction, this would be particularly fitting since Tolkien wrote it as history, not fantasy.
The silmarillion is too complex and cover too much time period to be a single movie or even a trilogy of movies, not to mention how hard would it be to visualize some of the more abstract scenes or match the insane scale of it's wars, but if done right we'll have the single greatest high fantasy ever put to screen
Honestly the only way I can see a Silmarillion movie is to take one or two stories out of the Silmarillion and make them a movie. Maybe even take two stories that follow up on each other or are otherwise connected so you can have the classic A and B plot thing. Maybe you can write in a connection that seems good (yes I am suggesting that Tolkien's work isn't a gospel, shocking I know). Trying to film the whole thing seems unreasonable to me.
Essentially GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire is the Silmarillion
If the Silmarillion were written by a mentally retarded fanboi.
You want the right people filming and scripting these movies. I'd highly recommend these guys who already made neat youtubes of Sauron deceiving Celebrimbor in some sort of gamer videos. These would know what they are doing, not like the Rings of Power.
without me having seen this video... this is not a good question at all as it is obvious of how impossible it would be to contain The Silmarillion in a single movie. not even in a series of live action films as it would be way more costly than the LotR trilogy. The Silmarillion can only be made as an animated series with multiple seasons.
A live adaptation could work but that will be expensive as shit.
They only way to make a adaptation of the silmarillion is animation especially 2D
And that would be a series
Because it is damn hard to make a movie about, because a movie requires one coherent saga, and a company needs someone to write such a saga. Sooner or later it will happen though, and everybody will hate it.
"Why is there no Silmarillion movie?"
Because it would logistically be impossible to make it into even a trilogy.
It’s impossible to adapt a story that spans thousands of years of history faithfully.
After “The Rings of Power” I hope they never put up the rights for the Silmarillion.
Probably not enough demand among the public, for one. The big studios ultimately worship the golden idol of money like any other corporation, and they're not going to take a financial risk unless they're at least reasonably convinced of a solid return. Unless it's Disney, of course, which, um...doesn't seem to care much about losing money these days lol.
Overall I hope they dont sell the rights to the Silmarillion, I would in an ideal world like to see the Silmarillion adapted but I dont want to the risk of one company such as Amazon to swallow up all the rights of Tolkiens body of work and then creating a massive soulless marvelesque cinematic universe, churning out a movie and tv show every year with terrible quality and faith the spirit of the original material. If they Tokien estate could find a company that would make the silmarillion and could agree to a contract that forces them to maintain enough accuracy to the original work. As for speculated content I always thought an adaptation could work as an anthological trilogy of movies, each one featuring the 3 big stories within the Silmarillion.
Edit: People said the Lord of the Rings was unadaptable, but when you had someone like Peter Jackson and his epic project it came out good.