❌ Why F1 doesn't check every F1 car is LEGAL
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- Опубліковано 25 жов 2023
- F1's car legality checks aren't as thorough as you might expect on a grand prix weekend. So does that mean teams can take risks with running their cars illegally, or is the FIA's system as robust as it thinks it is?
#f1 #fia #formula1 #f1news #f12023 #f123 #rules #legal #illegal #excluded #disqualification #disqualified #grandprix #therace - Спорт
It makes sense, but if one car is illegal, they should check sister cars as well 😠😠
I’m guessing the other Mercedes and Ferrari were already disassembled and ready for transport by then and with such a big gap they could do or change anything on the car so
That is more unfair than checking every car
So in that case why stroll didnt DQ in hungary 2021 or vettel in australia 2014 or jos verstappen in SPA 1994 in the same way Schumacher LECLERC Hamilton DQ it call it random cheeked 😅
@@user-wy5xe6ht2mVettel in Hungary 21 was a fuel leak and that wouldn’t be on both cars
@@dondelchulia3189 if there is 2 breaches in over a hundred checks, then leave it as it is. You did not complain after Japan even though all cars were not checked. Th reason being the few checked had no breach. Why did you not make the argument that cars not checked could have been in breach? The rule is ok as long as it catches and punishes offenders.
Based on Lewis his reaction after his DQ, I suspect MB already knew their setup was too low. Simply took the risk, since Austin was a perfect track for a potential win.
Well your reaction shows you don't watch F1 that often... every car of the 3 guys from podium is being checked this is always the case..
They couldn't because of parc ferme, they went with the setup they had knowing there was a slight chance they'd be checked, instead of an assured penalty to change it
@@Kippehhhdrive to survive fan
@@Kippehhh Your reply shows that you don't know what you're talking about, because that is factually incorrect.
Go through the documents for the what is tested at each and this will quickly disprove that.
I get the current system but I also feel like they should be able to check more based on the results of any tests, like this weekend 50% of the cars tested failed, surely that’s enough evidence to make them wanna check them all
If its the last check they do that half the cars fail they have to hold up everything for ages to test the others. If they say they cant do it because of time constraints if its on one of the last tests and next time they find something on the first and check everything its also kinda bullshit, since they change it week to week.
While the current solution is still not perfect, its the least of all the evils you could choose.
@@Stevesteve_ The WEC has A: Not 10 different car models and more importantly B: Not a 1 week turnaround.
@@Stevesteve_ Its not a matter of hiring, its a matter of disassembling, transporting and reassembling the cars halfway around tho globe, within 4 days. Cause guess what, the whoke garage setup exists twice for each team, with multiple teams working on the races around the globe.
You are sorely mistaken if you think its an easy feat to make a schedule that tight.
I work in event management, we have far less events that are not as big as F1 races, and you know what? For us its stressfull already when summer rolls around and our events start.
I would guess that for each GP they have a few thousand people working on it. Try finding that many skilled workers willing to work the tightest of schedules and do it for years on end with little hiccups.
The winners should be the first ones up for being checked.
Nascar in the 1990s would rip the top 10 cars down to a pile of loose parts… I think the FIA could attempt to check any car finishing in points
And they wouldn't put it back together even if it was legal
Well nascar is a US based sport and F1 travels across countries so there is just too much transporting that needs to be done especially on short weeks.
But then you would also need to check the ones that aren't.
As they could be illegal and move up into the points from others being DQ
@@gamingturtle3936 you know what happens to every F1 car after the race? It gets torn down, might aswell inspect them and tear them down
@jamescampbell1242 this, is true. But this is still pretty spendy in both time and money for the FIA
But when there is a larger breach like cota. They should have checked sainz and russels cars too since their teammates were breaching. as well as all the other cars. Maybe they don't want to dq half the grid but they have rules and the plank seems the easiest to measure
There's a fair chance that, by the time they actually know if tested cars were compliant or not, it's already too late to check other cars. It'd be easier for the teams to be already packing and sending away the other car while the FIA is running their checks, and they might even need to run some numbers after all the measurements of the car are taken and it's packed with the rest of the team stuff. The extra logistics needed are just not even slightly worth the hassle, these kind of infractions are _really_ unusual
You did not listen, what part of no time for that do you not understand. By the time they detect these things the other cars are already taken apart and packed away for transport.
If they check every single car, the pecking order would change and, if they checked every car they might find severe loop hole exploitations in fast cars like redbull, merc or ferr or even mclaren and they would DQ them, thus a lot of revenue loss and financial impact overall, hence that's a time consuming and rather expensive task, they just let it go and select car which looks suspicious in race weekends. Plus don't about forget politics in sports, making it not a 100% pure sport just like with any other sport in the world, they would just allow technical breaches in races for a team if they wish to, I could be wrong, but its just an opinion.
@@nielsdebakker3283
Atleast the plank should always be checked, and there's absolutely no excuses for not measuring the plank alone.
The reality is that even the random checks now by FiA is very “invasive” already. Last weekend we were asked to remove Diff after Macau qualifying and put all our cars on measuring platform to get the floor height checked. That took us 6-7 hours.
Thanks for the inside news, all other comments here people voicing out their own opinion makes such a mess. Thank you again!
@@gold24diamond35 Well thank you for your appreciation! As a competitor, I need to emphasize that we prefer more rigorous checks to ensure a fair playing field. Championships that take time and effort to check everyone's work usually carry more weight on drivers' CVs.
"because we are poor and can't hire more engineers"- FIA
Let’s start a GoFundMe for the poor buggers. How will they afford their caviar otherwise.
Exactly my thoughts, they could hire a 1000 people per car to check them over each race, but then their bonuses would be smaller so why would they?
Yup 100k a year poor buggers😂
@@seanbrown4706and this way, they can sell "do not check my car" cards behind the counter if you know what I mean
Perhaps less races and more staff would be the answer. With cars getting ever more complicated, surely they'll need a team to inspect even a fraction of what one alone could manage before.
Good suggestion
Agreed. And one race per country as well
Certainly feels like a manpower issue. NASCAR stock cars, while certainly much less complex, are all checked after every one of the series 33 races + several exhibitions while numbering 33 full-time entries this year + some one-off drives (like Kimi at COTA or SVG at Chicago). All that is added to the same thing for the Xfinity series and Trucks series. That F1 can't even check a quarter of a 20-car grid even on weekends where there isn't an immediate race next Sunday is kinda shocking to me
@@Evarakeusthey're just lazy, what can we say?
They certainly have the money to afford the manpower, they would just prefer to pocket the revenue and manage via scare tactics.
FIA makes 137M and spends 45M. So clearly they have the money to do so if they are truly non profit but the truth it is not non profit. All the profit just goes to FIA offshore accounts
Maybe if they didn't have so many dang regulations smaller teams would be able to race.
Nothing is a non profit, okay only exception would prolly be mrbeast. Let that sink in.
@@267calin what world do you think Mr.beast is non-profit? You think he works a second job to pay the bills? That man makes plenty of profit
f1 races happen ~20 a year in different countries and does this every weekend. they dont have the time to check hundreds of parts on 20 individual cars
Cash is not what the logistics issue is.
It's the time between the circuit and flights to ship the cars off to another country
Rules ale so complex. And in most cases checking everything requires total disassembly of the car. Down to the very last bit. Or even sometimes destroying some parts. And even then you can not be sure a car was legal. You can only check that the car as it was at the end of the race was legal. You will never know what was its state during the race.
More: some of the parts are not serviceable. A head gasket is one time only. Once you disassemble the engine you have to put a new one. That means money, in parts and in labour
So? Teams are rich. Surely they can supply a new car for every race, whilst somehow still complying with the rule not to replace parts more than X times a season.
Yes I'm not being serious.
Yeah, but the skid wear is a very simple measurement, one men would make the measurement really quickly on all cars at Race end, also doesnt justify why not check Russell and Sainz cars, they most likely where affected to. For example the Fuel rule, that one is e forced for everyone, at the end of a Race you must provides 1L of petrol, so it can be tested, this sample will or will not be testes off site, if there are doubts, the Samples already exist, if you dont provide the 1 L sample you are Disqualified.
@@sailyui If you want to check everything you have to dissasemble everything
Other racing leagues do it . This a weak arse excuse.
Anybody that thinks every part on every car needs to be checked simply doesn’t have a grasp on the reality of racing. I’m sorry but it’s true. It’s not physically possible to do, the random checks on random items are a big enough deterrent IF….and with the FIA and F1 it’s a big “if”…….they actually enforce the rule and DQ the car that they catch.
If Nascar can do it with 36-40 cars on every one of the 36 weekends before and after the race, why can't the FIA do the same with only 20 cars over 23 weekends?
@@Lianpe98because nascar is homologated. Same engine, same Chassis... no big difference allowed, whereas f1 and its teams are forced to push the regulations to the limits to achieve an advantage over the other teams. So much more technical diversity which is much more troublesome to check.
@@BrainDeadBanana ...I guess that's kinda fair
@@Lianpe98 because nascar doesn’t do it to every car on every weekend. They do certain aspects like weight and body yes (which I believe f1 does have the capacity to do certain aspects on every car, plank being one of them) but they then only take the top 5 and 1 random to do more thorough tech, and even then it’s not every single component.
@@Lianpe98 Nascar doesn't have to be in a different country in 3-4 days time requiring the cars to be completely torn apart and packed away in a container.
That doesn’t explain why the plank, a part that is not reused can not be collected from every car and checked the next day when there isn’t the time pressure
No different why auditing companies don't literally check every single transaction of a business. They do sampling
And if they find 50% suspicious transactions in their sample, they conclude that they must have picked all the suspicious ones somehow and don’t do a wider check.
@@Batters56Well, no, and for the same reason that they describe here. It isn't really the gotcha you seem to imply, because you'd stop way before you ever got to 50 anyhow.
@@Alxnick You’d stop checking your sample because it showed problems? That even worse!
@@Batters56 Isn't that what they're doing in America with bridge safety checks? So many are failing they're no longer checking. Problem solved! That sort of thinking worked out for the Soviet Union anyway.
Another big factor is that it would be awful for the sport to keep the world waiting for 12-14 hours or more for definitive race results. If every car is being tested for every technical rule, we wouldn't have final race results until the next day. Nobody wants that. At COTA, the top 4 finishing teams each had a car checked. Seems reasonable enough. And the ability to completely tear down any car at any time is a further deterrent that seems to have worked over the years. The system is fine - COTA was an outlier due to some unusual circumstances.
This. No one wants to wake up the next day and see a bunch of cars DQ'd, and the entire finishing order has been changed.
Obviously checking every car, every race would be ideal in terms of following the rules but it’s not feasible. What a lot of people are upset by is that the FIA did a random inspection in which 50% of the checked cars failed. That should’ve warranted an inspection of every car on the grid
Alonso could have been back in the points 😂
Or at least the sister cars of those who failed.
fia should start pulling max over to check his car each race
Facts
also if the companies knew the time they would just replace the illegal parts and then send it for checking to FIA
Theres nothing wrong with the way they do it. Would you risk DQ? No way in hell I would.
The thing is that teams do risk it its worth it in their eyes
I am fine with it, but I think they need to add a precedence rule since there are 2 cars per team. If 1 car fails something, it is mandatory to also check the 2nd car due to identical parts used in both cars in the same team during the race.
@@BushBushBushBush no it isn’t- Not for things like the floor anyway. Maybe for things that are less detectable, like when Ferrari were mysteriously quick and then suddenly they signed a waiver with the FIA and their pace went overnight. For this particular scenario no team is doing it intentionally, since the floor is so easy to check, there is no way of making any potential gains undetectable.
There's also the chance of gaining an unfair advantage on the car by accident
@youtubeman9870 such a poor take 😂😂
The FIA also has the power to ignore an illegal car like the RB 19
🤦♂️
Replace Mr. Krabs with the Fia. ,,Money"
'it inspires teams to take risks with the legality of their cars'
*RED BULL INTENSIFIES*
And clearly they never check red bull cars cuz they are def not legal
They do😂. How would they not be legal anyways?
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Just hire more staff. With all the money in the sport, it’s crazy that this is even a thing. If half of the sample size fail, all cars should be checked.
It doesn’t matter how much staff you have, there are only 24 hours in a day. The amount of things on these cars that would need to be inspected, it is physically impossible to check every part on every car every race weekend.
@@joshlehnertz-dx2ej of course they can.That’s a ridiculous statement. What happens in any organisation that’s short staffed? Productivity stagnates. So hire more people. f1 has more than enough money and resources to solve this. If each team can have 100s of staff rhat can rebuild an entire care overnight, there is no reason why the FIA can’t provide people to perform the necessary checks.
@@ThrottleBody That's just F1 politics to keep RB winning races
They could literally just check the winners because its the winners that usually have illegal upgrades.
This makes sense, however, I think the threat of the sister car being analyzed if one car is found to break regulations works as an even stronger deterrent. If being caught operating outside of the regulations makes your team susceptible for even more scrutiny, teams will work harder to stay within the regulations.
FIA ONLY checks if the car faster than Max...🤣🤣🤣
The stewards can pick any car at random. Theyre watching the race live too - if they see a driver hitting curbs too often or bottoming out too often, its probably gonna get randomly searched. They probably dont check sister cars because they only have the time to do 4. Which is why theyll select ones who they reckon will fail - biggest bang for your buck
they should just check the top three finishers after every race.
They should also add random lie detector pop quizzes to crew 😅
There should be an unlimited class where anything goes.
Looking at the data analysis from the cars, the boffins would be able to pick irregularities in mapping of fuels and power outputs..
Should do what teachers all round the world do - and get the teams to check other teams' cars!
Not to mention that obviously if a driver is blowing other drivers out of the water, winning every race, it's rather apparent that the car requires inspection. You got a driver who always places 13th, 14, 15th, then suddenly he places 1st and 2nd the following seasons then it's kinda obvious something isn't right
I honestly think, they should check every car before, they even the track, maybe the redbull?
that’s why ferrari slipped under the radar for nearly a decade with their “innovative use of fuel pump”
I don’t think they should check *every* part but if a 50% of the cars you checked failed the scrutiny you should check the rest of the cars for *that* part to ensure every offender is equally punished
Top 3 cars should be checked at the end of each race off rip. Fastest lap car should also be checked. And I think all points finishers should be put in a pool and say 3 picked at random. That way your doing as much as you can as simply as possible without wasting time and resources
The race before the summer break should be ended with full check on every car.
Teams would just make the car compliant for that one examination.
FIA's lax procedures do NOT "ensure compliance". A better approach would be to do regular inspections every weekend, but on just a few random parts. That way the teams know there will be an inspection, but not what will be checked...so they will be more likely to keep the whole car compliant.
If regular checks are done, teams will analyze the way the checks are done and figure out areas that aren’t checked. By having an at random on any part of the car, teams can’t do that
FIA “Okay, bring car #16 for checks at weigh bridge”
Ferrari “Copy we are checking”
💀
Refined over decades? More like they haven't bothered to keep up. If they have enough time to continually add races, then they can find time to expand how many cars are checked.
I present as evidence: the 2004 Canadian Grand Prix where both Williams and both Toyotas were disqualified for non rule compliant brake ducts. Now in both team’s cases I’m sure they checked one car first, then the other one. Of course a brake duct shape/size is more of an absolute than a plank wearing during the race, but I think the comparison stands up.
They didn’t go, well the other one isn’t up for scrutineering so I’m sure it’s fine. Hopefully someone with more F1 knowledge can flesh out this story?
And indeed it prevents teams for trying. Considering the last violation before COTA was on the same year when the regulation was introduced
"the penalties of even the smallest breaches are usually severe."
"Unless it's Red Bull" 😂
Punishments are severe unless ur a red bull
It'd be nice if f1 had less restrictions so:
1 - manufacturers could be more creative
2 - they wouldn't have to check
I understand that maybe between the time you communicate the cars to be inspected and the actual inspection and result, the team will have started working on the other car and all the logistics associated. So it might be impossible to go back and call the second car because the first was found illegal. But it could be interesting to always check the cars that finish in the points. Or always call both cars of the team
Ever car get a check here, and they're apart from Red Bull...
The thing is, the last ones was because of the skid blocks being worn down too far.
That is something thry could definitely check easily and quickly on each car without a problem.
It makes sense because of logistics.
But i have one more psychological one:
Since you don't know when your car is going to be checked, you better do not risk never. If you gamble it, you can either walk out penalty free... or with a huge fine.
Its the same thing of the sporting world, ton of people in all kinds of sports are using some sort of drugs/way's to have an advantage. It being against the rules never stopped anyone.
Did you put nitrous whippets in?
Team: yah, we took some hits too 😂
I'd also argue the fact that with more work increases more risk.
Unless its Redbull. Then its just a penalty for Ocon
Random checks always work better because you can’t prepare for it.
Often times you’ll see with buisness and places that do weekly checks with non racing stuff, is that people will make sure everything is perfect for the check, and then either not keep it that way, or purposely change it after.
Not knowing when a check is going to happen makes it a lot harder to do both
They don’t need to check everything on every car all the time. But if you do a test for a rule which hasn’t been broken ONCE in the last 20 years, and then in one test 50% of the cars failed, it would be logical to test the other cars as well. I think it’s perfectly valid that from now on, if a car gets disqualified for a rule, the rest of the cars should be checked as well. Only then, not every race. Thats too time consuming.
The plank, being an external part on the car could be checked pretty fucking quickly. Especially considering that many things influence plank wear like climate and track conditions.
They normally can understand if something is off during the race, they are professionals hired to do that job.
Fia waits for instructions from red bull for which cars to check.
Random sampling is pretty standard in any industry.
Smallest of technical breaches are punished with severe consequences except if you are Ferrari! Their cars just suddenly became slower in 2019 after some complaints to FIA were looked into. No other consequences
you only really need to check the one in first
As someone who puts these cars together. They all modify after shipping.
not to mention the time to check the cars will be longer then the whole qualifiying + race
This is the same idea behind self checkout lines lol
I think those who have a raised interest of scoring where they did should have a post race inspection
I say you should atleast do an investigation of all the cars, but do a "shortend" version of it while still picking 2 to take a deep dive in. The shortened version can include planks, ride height, wings, suspension, etc.
While true. in the case of the most recent plank wear disqualifications. they should have checked the whole grid after 2/4 cars were found to be non-compliant.
Last week our car has been checked by faa, this weed we are going to use illegal part 🔥
Sounds like rebull has something in the suspension. Floorboard is a distraction. They're able to run lower due to some suspension edge. Computerized damping is clearly used, but they may be using sumn special.
_Check 10 cars, 1 for every team, at the end of every race, with each teammate checked rotating every race weekend. If the car checked is legal, you move onto the next team, if the car's illegal, you call in the teammate's car. It's probably the best solution to the matter, and if the problem's time in between GPs, hire more people, the FIA definitely has the resources for that._
That's over huge project...!!!!
Never seen RB checked
Keep in mind that these random checks make sure that if a team does illegal modifications, they may add to the modification, or do more modifications because they feel comfortable doing so. If this is true, it would make it easier to spot during a random check.
Yeah definitely wouldn’t effect NASCAR with those “penalties” you give them an inch they take a foot that’s why they have pre and post race inspections
In a way the cars reveal themselves when they have illegal components. When a team „miraculously“ performs in a following race better than before, or one of the other teams suspects and snitches, FIA would do a check on said cars.
They cannot hide better results/times on the track.
maybe they could make the cars simpler with say a V10 or V12 and no active aero. but then allow then to innovate within those rules. less chance for illegal parts
With 3D volumetric scanners being so portable, I don’t think it’s that difficult. They can use the fines money for that.
Every other racing league check the cars after the race ……. F1 takes a whole season to determine if it’s legal or not .
It's also about parts cost. If scrutineering damages anything the FIA HAVE to pay for it and it's brutal
It also discourages texhnical breakthroughs in racing
It was so obvious when looking at the ride height during the race that the MB &Ferrari were lower than Max’s RB. Photos:videos were clear from the rear.
Same with the weigh bridge. There is no way, you can send every single car to it, but it's random, so you can't game the system unless you want severe consequences. If you can grasp that, you can grasp why checks aren't done for every single car, after every race.
F1, the HOA of motorsports
how often do they actually do checks, if the threat of random checks are there but rarely done then it would still be tempting
But if Mercedes complains they check and even change rules and "tolerances" for everyone else...
PS: The FIA talking about "ensureing" things, yet they are still not able to call a red flag within 20 seconds, instead takes multiple laps mostly. - Monaco was almost a miracle on how quick they red-flagged. :'D
They would need to hire a lot of technical aspects to do this efficiently. But they could tell all the teams that everything on every car after every race will be checked. This will snap people back into absolute compliance. You do this for a bunch of races, and you can cut back on inspectors. It will become essentially self correcting. Not that it would stop inspecting extensively, but would cut down because the teams would know any pedestrian cheats arent worth it.
Yeah what if a team just decides well this weekend it's all or nothing? They don't get checked then they get away with it.
They use a roller on a stick in other America races to check ride hight and takes seconds. This should be done for safety.
Fun fact: The punishment for being caught has less impact on wether or not someone does an act than the certainty they’ll get caught
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Maybe shorter ammount of races and make them spaced out would make this possible
How about instead of checking everything. They check all teams floor. Cause this is a hot topic with the current regulation.
Same in phydical sports ,they dont check everyone for roids so some get a pass
Surely just doing checks on the cars that score points is worth the hassle.
Ah so they use the airport technique of “random searches”
Also I'd every team knew exactly what they would check every weekend. They could fine a loophole on Smith that is not checked
as long as all cars are tested to the same level each year then i have no issue with that, but this isnt the case, some teams/cars are tested more than others...
Yet nascar officials has a pre and post race inspection. On all 42 cars get check and yet they cant do 24 they really over complicated things for them selves.
Bruh with all the efficiency they’ve developed they should just make full car inspections part of the process and have a specific group of employees whose main job is to do just that.