"When you let others speak through you, the yourself is diminished. There is power in words when you speak them sincerely. Crueler kind, but truly mean what you say what you mean, is to speak the language of power" - Noah Caldwell-Gervais This quote goes in my personal archive
I like how you can subvert Kyros at the very beginning by waiting before reading the first edict. The edict says everyone will die on the day of the sword after the edict has been read. The day of the sword is 8 days after the start of the game. But if you wait until after the day of the sword to read the edict, you'll have an entire year until the next day of the sword.
It was originally an accident, but yes, it's a thing. After the oversight was discovered the developers left it in, because it is an excellent demonstration of how it is possible to subvert the expectations of the rules being placed upon you.
He missed one thing in the video. If you save the queen you have the option to Join the Vendrien guard and be the leader of the resistance against Kyros, rallying the sages guild and the Unbroken behind you and killing both the Chorus and the Disfavored. You can have Tunon either join you if you convince him or you can kill him. If he joins you he will serve you and make laws help with the fallout left behind after the war. So you CAN actually subvert the entire concept that you HAVE to be a bad guy in the game, you can be a good guy but doing so is REALLY hard, you literally have to stumble upon the pre-requisite during the Conquest part of the game.
@David Bodor but his words still stands true, you're still a new tyrant, ruling people under your LAW! it maybe a benevolent leadership but still your just another kyros. you will eventually conquer other lands under the pretext of kind benevolent leadership kinda like america today. see the similarity? you say democracy at the same time destroy other people's lives with it.
This game was a powerful experience for me. I never really play "evil" in games. To get through this one, I found myself relying on Kyros' law to tell me what was right, and what was wrong. I followed the law to the letter. I did some of the most horrendous acts I've ever done in a game, but in doing them I followed Kyros' law and there was comfort in that. Actually reminds me of my experience with Papers Please, in a way.
Comfort in following horrific commands? That comment says a lot about the average human psyche, and explains how nut jobs like Nazi's and other deplorable groups are able to recruit and carry out their crimes. So many small minded people out there.
@@nomadjensen8276 Of course there is comfort in following the law (i.e. Kyros), as it is the moral standard of that land. It's very easy to dismiss it as brutal from our modern point of view, both the Nazis and that of the game. But it's pretty naive to think one would be the morally perfect modern human one is today in every situation. Had you been spoonfed from an early age that some humans are not actual humans, but an enemy and more or less an worthless animal you would have less of a barrier to cross when you need to do what in that world is considered "good". In other times and other worlds, "deplorable" and "horrific" is the opposite. In 50 years, people may call us deplorable for any number of moral standards they enforce then that we don't have now. This game actually does a pretty good job of showing different aspects in different environments and lets you play as the "modern normal human" and be chastised for its gullible humanism (which it is more or less considered in game) or take comfort in that it is the right thing to do in that world. Effectively forcing you to take the viewpoint of another culture, not as "perfect" as ours.
@@nomadjensen8276 nah i think you are right, its strange seeing people claiming that they find comfort in following the law in general, no matter if its horrific or not, i just find it psychologically interesting that some people are basically addicted to following the law, even when such law really is horrific and uncomfortable to follow e.g. Kyros, yet people still feel obliged to follow it to be a "good" guy
@@One.Zero.One101 "forcing him self to be evil by roleplaying" "why bring up nazis"... so essentially he is roleplaying what it is to be a nazi... level of cognitive dissonance in your comment is astounding
They also added a new ending to the game path which lets you actually recruit the rebels to Kyros' cause. You remain loyal to the end and are named rightful ruler of the Tiers by Kyros but kill off the Disfavored and the Scarlet Chorus. Thus you spare the Tiers from their brutal rule in favor of your potentially more openhanded approach by governing in the Overlord's name. You can only end two of the three Edicts you encounter after the prologue, but this is potentially more beneficial to the greater good of the Tiers because choosing not to end the Edict of Stone gives the Beastmen a homeland to escape to. However, at least one of your companions see's this path as a massive betrayal and you've delivered the Tiers into the hands of Kyros' oppressive regime. It's probably the best ending for the common people of the Tiers because it ends the war, potentially kills off the two factions that would have prayed on them the most, and ends a lot of the old, petty grudges they had with each other but it has some of the most personal betrayals in the game. I was definitely left feeling that I had compromised part of myself in the name of peace under Kyros and could have done better, even though the reality was that there wasn't any way to. Which is exactly how a game named "Tyranny" should make you feel. Plus, how many RPG games actually have the best ending locked behind stabbing one of your companions in the back.
Coffee Break Hero I was talking about killing Graven Ashe and freeing Barik from his armor. Which he hates you for and only continues to follow you because he has no one else that will take him. However, you prevent Ashe from killing off the beastmen and stop the Tiers from becoming a slave state under the fascist Disfavored. Barik even calls you a “petty, backstabbing, power grabbing scavenger” and there isn’t even an option to really disagree with him because that’s exactly what you are at this point in the story. Great writing all around for this game.
@@H240909 "new world order" lol. if you surrender to kyros she's gonna casually execute you and if you try to fight her she only prospers in a new war. also, even if you hate controlled chaos type of evil more than ashe's supremacy and self-apointed-justice (persoanlly I think bad guys who think they're good are much more dangerous for the world. see hitler) the voices of barik makes the chorus into a normal army, making it one of the best endings. it's not like the chorus people are bad. most of them just surrendered to kyros inevitablity and try to survive and yea great writing. I had a moment when I broke down and cried a bit after I bullied barik with the athletic check to renounce his oath to ashe only to later find out it's useless. the voice acting on that line broke me
Coffee Break Hero “Casually execute you”? Yeah... no. They are just leaving the door open for another game. Also, Chorus people are awful. Sure they might convince themselves that they had no choice but the truth is they do. They choose to stay. And that’s the brilliant cruelty of the Chorus. It’s designed to bring out the worst in people or keep them in denial while they continue to do terrible things. Better for everyone to destroy it.
"Life continues after evil wins, but the roles are different. When an authority says 'look the other way', our eyes cast downward. When they say 'turn up the voltage', we reach out to do it. When they say 'obey the law', we do not ask who wrote the law in the first place." - Noah Caldwell-Gervais, March 2017 This is a quote worth remembering, particularly in these times.
Iyrsiiea Its the usual pretentious "quote me i am quotable!" piece or blurb. Evil, i think people nowadays have no fucking idea what evil avtually is. You generally mistake common ineptitude and irresponsibility with Evil.
Marcin Smyczek I do not need to ask who wrote the law, i can go look it up. Democracy. When someone tells me to do something, i usually get a context as to why he wants me to do it. If he does not, i usually ask him, if i can not deduce the prupose based on what i know already. As for lok the other way: no evil overlord required. Look at #metoo, look at sjwdom. Look at political correctness. Black lives matter. These movements and all those i did not list for brevitys sake are united in one purpose: to bend perception and reaction to their retarded causes. Oh no, the negros life matters. Coming from a society that in the same breath curses the existence of whites and also treats animals better than the next best human. Hobos? GAH! But look at that cute lost puppy, full if dideeases. etc etc. What is the authority he refers to? An evil henchmen functionary? Your boss? A movement of people peddling their agenda? hm? As i said. A wannabe quote bereft of meaning.
True, but most of us obey the law without knowledge about the people who helped bring it into creation and sometimes even its purpose. One can say it's conformism, but I find a sense of harmony in the system. Everything is in its place, and even if it goes a bit rusty sometimes, the wheels still spin.
Marcin Smyczek o.o what. dude you can go and look up who fostered what law (be it person or group or organization) and knowing who allows you to probe for motivation. Perhaps one ye oldest laws? Thou shalt not kill? Who? Anybody ever who had to organize the survival of a group. Why? Order. Everybody going around murdering would be pretty disastrous for the group as a whole. Would you not agree? How? Many ways, laws, beliefs, power of character. I am pretty sure we can come up with lots of reward\punishment measures to enforce this. A banal law? Tge EU dictates shapes for vegetables. why? because bug business wanted it so in order to optimize transportation and shelf room..... Law is nothing mystical. Motivation can be.
Words and how people view persons of power have a huge amount of power in Tyranny. Graven ashe, Tunon and your ascension to archon magic are due to how you all are viewed by the people around you (Ashe - Loyalty, love, Protection. Tunon - Law, justice, command. You - Edict binder, free agent) all give you the power that you have in the end. In the same way all of you have the weaknesses of those virtues (Pain from loss from every member of the disfavored, blindness to the intent of law, dependent on Kyros's edict manipulation). It is also shown that how people view you through favor or wrath system that you gain power from their love or fear. Kyros him/herself is dependent on that too. According to the law, anyone who uses the name of Kyros in a sentence, the sentence MUST be true. So if you say "By Kyros you are dumb", you need to prove it or die. If you name a child Kyros, the child and it's family die. Kyros's name is sacrosanct. Tyranny in itself is about not only evil is done through a slow degrade of your moral compass and compromises, it's also about the power of words, languages and how people view you. It's the closest universe to apply narrative thought apart from Discworld.
It even follows terry prachett aspect that its worse to do something without caring if do something evil or good do it with all your heart and care for it. A assain should thrieve to do his work precisly and take responibilty for the kill. Vetenarni killed the mad lord who ruled before him and took resonibilty by making Ank-morkporg a better place. He even had a ark were the gods got punched in the face because lost touch with the People that gave them power
In my playthrough I manage to turn Tunon to my side. I always saw Tunon as my boss, so I always did what I considered justice, my own sense of justice, and at the end, Tunon saw that my justice was better, even if it was againts Kyros! I loved that! I did what I could to saved peolple with knowledge and fairness... and savescumming my battles. But I also killed Ash and Voices, and by extention, all of the Disfavored and Chorus. And a bunch of others that opposed me, in my quest for justice. The power of savescumming made me (and my character) incredible confident, so I killed everyone I deemed evil. Eventualy, I had few allies, but I could protect the land, by using the Towers as superweapons in a cold war against Kyros... Mutual assured destruction... What a happy ending :)
Aye Tunon is cool. Propably my favourite Archon. I got him by my side in my legion playthough. In my rebel playthrough I killed him. And he was thankful for it. He was tired of living.
Me too! I just finished my second playthrough as pro-rebel (I abandoned my first playthrough because helping disfavored made me sick to my stomach). Was happy I restarted to basically get the same ending you did.
I absolutely agree. Tunon is one of the best characters I ever encountered in any RPG ever. And hands down THE BEST "personification of justice"-type character ever! In any media! He's stoic. Straightforward. Fair. But at the same time he doesn't have his head stuck in anyone's ass! His eyes are open. Thus you can actually make him see Kyros' laws are flawed Which is one of the best scenes of the entire game. All the laws he's been enforcing are crumbling apart, and yet he joins Fate Binder to help him create new laws. I would've been happy just for that because tbh Tunon was pretty much my number one character in the entire game for the entire game. But Obsidian also included this part where Tunon is visibly ill after Kiros' laws are proven flawed. He's shocked, almost in pain. That's how loyal to the very idea of "laws" he is. But at the same time Tunon is not zealous to the point of being blind. And I absolutely love it
Gotta admit that while I loved Tyranny enough to play it with awful lag on a laptop that struggles to run Civ 5, I agree that the rebellion path was weaker. Which is a shame because I really wanted to see how far Obsidian would be willing to test my commitment to ending Kyros' rule. If the rebellion path was tougher, more cruel and had more morally grey choices it could have been a great story of the compromises and mistakes actual resistance movements face. And it would be useful to remind people of that now
@@fuzzydunlop7928 Yeah, Noah went the "anarchist" route, not rebel route. In the rebel route, there is waaaaay more to the story, including picking which allies to get, which places to protect/abandon, etc. I personally loved it *way* more than siding with anyone else.
I think the worst thing about the black and white approach of Bioware to morality is how non sensical the evil approach is. For instance, in Dragon Age: Origins you meet a wounded soldier, the game lets you: a) Heal him. b) Ignore him. C) Kill him. But killing him makes no sense. It's evil, but stupidly evil. An intelligently evil approach would be to heal him, but the blackmail him to serve your purpose. Personally, I prefer the more morally gray approach of the Witcher games.
Honestly, Bioware is extremely over-rated in their ability to tell story. They been basically writing the same story over and over again since Baldur's Gate. What they are master of are making good characters. Their characterization and variety in both minor and major character is so good, it elevate their generic same 'player is the chosen one/star child who will save everyone, and most who isn't sucking the player's cock is either evil, retarded, or both (with very few exception for major villain who they give most attention and care, like Logain from DA:O. He is down right my favorite villain character in all the games I played.)' generic plot look more interesting than they really are when you strip it down to the core.
What the Witcher really emphasizes is shades of grey in everyone, including the most despicable of characters. It's one of the main reason's I love the series so much. More over, the choices you often have to make particularly the ones that can have a strong impact on the narrative. Are made with the notion of choosing between the lesser evil. Plus often times the decision that seems the most well intentioned can often have the most significant and downright horrifying out come. I won't go too into spoilers but one example would be from the 2nd game, when you have to choose knock out Iroveth or give him his sword. For those who have finished the game several times, you know what happens after you hand him his sword.
"An intelligently evil approach would be to heal him, but the blackmail him to serve your purpose." That is not intelligent evil either, you're not swaying him down to your level/side.
I got this game because what you were saying about it just sounded fascinating. And I'm floored with the thematic depth this game provides. I have not played a game this rich since... Forever? Every piece of dialogue is crafted for you to understand the implications of what's happening, and it is, as you say, draining because these themes aren't light either. I think I'm just discovering these kinds of games, so if anyone has recommendations of others that have this depth, I'll be very grateful.
most of obsidians games are well written like tyranny, also most black isle and old bioware games are well written. That been said the theme of most games vary greatly. I can personally recommend planescape torment as the best Crpg ever written, is orders of magnitude more deep than tyranny. Also neverwinter night mask of the betrayer. But you should check recent works as well like pillars of eternity and the new torment tides of numenera games. Many crpgs have great story lines but different themes. Also there is a whole genre of games called visual novels that while not very popular in the west are one of the most played genre of games in the east and have many games that are pure gold in storytelling like Steins;Gate. But that is a whole new world and not everyone's cup of tea. Sorry for my English.
The only one I can think of directly is the Baldur's Gate series. Although, in won't give you as much insight into "justice" as Tyranny does it, Baldur's Gate has another take on personal decisions. As long as you don't try to be the Kill-all-because-I-am-sooo-evil you will have to face conflicts concerning your morale and what your actons depict. Furthermore, the story is immersive as is the uniserve of the Forgotten Realms.
To me, having the *choice* makes the rebellion plotline in Tyranny feel far more vital and real and alive than it does in other games. The fact that it's not the core assumption of the game - that I had to WORK MY ASS OFF to do it, the fact I had seen all these people die by MY OWN HAND a mere five hours before (Yes, I did immediately replay the game, why do you ask?) made it feel...so much more impactful.
26:15 Actually being the Queenslayer won't stop you from joining the Vendrien Guard. You need to release all of the Vendrien captains you find (I believe there are two of them) and went Ebb meets with you to ask about her friend you need to tell her about the edict and remain honest throughout the conversation.
I've never actually played a game that explores concepts of power and the murky, difficult choices of its wielding better than Tyranny. The game has tons of jank but I still can't think of a game that actually made me really, truly grapple with the ramifications of my actions so intensely. Also that it is basically set in a bronze age Steven Erikson novel is sweet.
It's very rough around the edges and looks like a game that came out in 2003, but it's certainly unique in its open-endedness. It was a 7/10 because it didn't really draw me in, but I could see a lot of good in it, especially in how, like a classic pen-and-paper, the player character is no more special than any other man on the street.
The first moment I truly felt this game was when I made Lantry swear fealty to me. I didn't trust him before I did it, but after I did it I immediately realized that I was walking in the footsteps of the Practical Incarnation from Planescape: Torment, and that left a prolonged bitter feeling that was hard to shake. Like I was starting something I'll have to fix and answer for later.
He should make one on both KOTOR games. It be a good look at the key differences (and similarities) between Bioware and Obsidian's styles of story telling. It would also be interesting to see which studio captured the feeling of Star Wars better.
@@slyfer60 The feeling of Star Wars is - for the majority of fans - more simplistic and traditional than not. In that respect KOTOR 1 captured the 'feel' of Star Wars much better than a lot of the now-extant films do - however KOTOR 2 is a bold-faced subversion of traditional star wars philosophy and an exploration of it as presented in the first KOTOR and perhaps for this reason it's more important for the Star Wars universe as a whole, in much the same way a comic like 'The Killing Joke' or 'Year One' is lauded and influential within the Batman franchise despite perhaps not being considered canon for some other timelines and spin-offs of the IP, KOTOR 2's influence is seen in bits and pieces of other Star Wars media - even The Last Jedi lifted thematic crumbs, though without cohesion or commitment (or perhaps even understanding) of those ideas.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 I disagree with your point about "The Last Jedi" being a failure to understand KOTOR 2 that implies that the Writer/Director (Rian Johnson) had to have played said game. In order to not understand it one needs to engage with it.
@@slyfer60 just to give the benefit of the doubt he may have meant the ideas presented in kotor 2 were responses to the internal logic of star wars and later films touched on some of the same observations about the world without ever taking the concepts as far as kotor 2. So they did manage to make the same points about the source material independantly, but failed to understand those ideas they'd stumbled on to the same extent. In not a star wars guy but reading through that comment they werent explicitly saying that kotor inspired the directors.
Recently watched furiosa. The way dementus is shown to recruit early on, by having the captured people compete for the available motorcycles, reminds me of how you describe the scarlet chorus here.
The best video you have put out to date. My parents lived through the dictatorship during the 80´s in Chile. It´s amazing how similar the attitude of the characters in this game is to the actual attitude people had when they were under a regime where nobody had rights except for the ones who wielded the power.
I've listened to this video essay nine times. I can't put into words how brilliantly beautiful I think it is. You've put into words so many concepts that I've been desperately trying to explain to people when they ask why Tyranny is my favorite game, and I honestly adore you for it.
Absolutely great in-depth video! Watched this many times by now. Tyranny is one of my most favorite if not THE most favorite CRPG of mine mostly because of it's setting and story. And your video made me appreciate and love the game even more. Thank you for this video, Noah. Keep up the good work!
the recruting method of the scarlet chorus ewminds me of the way militias in the former Yugoslavia and in the civil wars of Africa would recruit by wining the favoure of young teens by showing intrest in these children's interests and then forcing them to kill members of there village severing the childs ties with that vilage and forcing them closer to the militia
This definitely reminds me of when I played Skyrim and found myself at the start of the Brotherhood quest. I knew there must be some way to destroy it, but I foolishly thought that I could do so "from the inside". That led to me being very surprised when suddenly id usurped the power and became the favorite of that mummy lady. I felt cheap and complicit for the purpose of gaining power. Where Skyrim ruined its momentum though, was that it rewarded me the entire way with morally grey assassinations and with really cool gear and a rocking demon steed, so I felt angry that I couldn't inact my plans of internal sabotage but I didn't question it any further because the cool horse had glowy eyes. It simply mistook my intentions, and I was happy enough to just go along with it, only a little bit annoyed that my plan didn't "work". Skyrims whole thing was about the power trip though; in a way it would have been a failure if you had to cruely face the terrible ramifications of your actions. It did make me think about the whole "change from the inside" argument when it comes to reform though, and how it would have to look (how much change, how far inside) to work, if ever.
38:13 as someone living in the USA, this rings so true with me. Our society, a deeply Fascist one, is evil. Almost completely pure evil. I try my best as a revolutionary to fight back but at the end of the day, I can't go bombing buildings and punching cops. When evil wins, the fight isn't over. It's just entered a different phase. However, Humans instinctively yearn for freedom. Freedom from economic, political, societal, etc domination. That gives me hope. Tyranny is wrong, Human nature by our evolutionary past is inherently collaborative.
Just did a rewatch of this video, having watched it years ago when it was much newer, and just thought I’d throw a nice word into the comments section to help the algorithm. Your work, as always is fantastic. Keep it up and we’ll keep watching.
"Tyranny is a game that says a world of magic and wolfmen is less of a fantasy than the assumption we are all fundamentally decent people, who will act according to our morals." Harsh but true.
I think this is your best critique I've seen in terms of analyzing themes and explaining emotional impact. Thanks for the hard work and the good content.
It's odd. I had no problem watching the Desserts or Kharak video, getting spoiled about the game, and then wanting to play it anyways. But I have absolutely no intention of watching this until I have a chance to play and finish Tyranny at least once.
To be clear, in Milgram (1963) the participants were not able to see the confederate while they were administering the electric shocks, but your overall point still stands.
The whole Milgram experiment circlejerk is, truth be told, quite annoying. A vast majority of the participants were quite reluctant when asked to administrate stronger shocks. Most of the transcripts show that only a few of them went along the experiment without complaining, arguing, or getting mad with Milgram's team. You can even see videos of it, where the pseudo-scientists start yelling or flexing at the participants because they refuse to do what they're told. Then it somehow became so overarching, undeniable proof that people will blindly follow any authority, when it was much more complicated than that.
24:00 That was a brilliant bit of between-the-lines-reading you did there. It never occured to me that the varying interpretations of Kyros' law corresponded to the varying expressions used for a core sigil in the magic system. If Kyros started out as an archon, then Law would have been his sigil, which also explains why nobody knows Tunon's sigil - his is derivative of Kyros.
You missed the single, most important lesson of Tyranny: being loyal to a tyrant is outright impossible. Kyros Peace is a massive lie that was immediately broken by a civil war, Kyros is very obviously just trying to get everyone in the valley killed, and the player HAS to break the law to finish the game. And this contradiction is built into the system deliberately: the law is nothing more than a legal basis to kill threats to Kyros; and make no mistake, EVERY Arcon is a threat, which will eventually include the player. As an example, Kyros did not offer to make the Disfavored a part of the empire, but rather, the Arcons under Kyros decided that, and Kyros had no choice but to agree, because doing otherwise makes Kyros look less in control than she pretends to be. They became the Disfavored because Kyros literally wanted them dead from the start, but was too afraid to be direct about it. Because ultimately, every tyrant is ultimately just as vulnerable to their morally bankrupt underlings as the rest of the planet.
I think of the conversation you have in the missives with that former fatebinder, who asks if you think Kyros would issue an edict with consequences she couldn't stand. It's not necessarily that Kyros WANTED the archons to die at the well, but he did find it an acceptable outcome. There's still edicts going on all over the world so presumably those that go on indefinitely are acceptable too, devastating an area in perpetuity is an acceptable alternative to Kyros actually getting what she says she wants. The law works the same. I'm sure it's not all intentionally cruel, but the cruelty is factored in and an acceptable consequence.
I love what you do Noah. Like I really love it, for the better part of a decade now it feels like. I've watched this video before but only in passing, I watched Mandalore Gaming's video on Tyranny and I didn't feel too bad about not getting into Tyranny, but watching the first bit of this video completely rejigged my perspective and I'm all in on it. Downloading as I type.
This is legitimately amazing. Drawing attention to the artistic merit in video games isn't an easy task by any means, but you do it with aplomb, broski.
I fell in love with this game straight away and have put in way more time than is healthy experimenting with different character types. Absolute favorite playthrough was a lawbreaker than made the rebels work for him. Was a run full of extortion, intimidation & politicing the hell out of the court and i loved every second of it. One line from Barik was the crowning moment of the playthrough. It was near the end of his companion quest during a conversation on the spire and went something like: "You lie. You cheat. You distort everything to fit your own twisted ends!" Sadly there was no option to respond "go ooon!" but the conversation still had me rolling. It's really interesting how loyalty and fear aren't mutually exclusive in Tyranny. Gives the player a lot more freedom in how they act toward the companions instead of feeling forced to pick the straightforward increase/decrease approval options like in other games. Aside from that one conversation every single choice fit perfectly into how i wanted the character to behave. He may not have been a hero by the end of the game but he got everything he wanted and more. Only thing that would have made it better would be if you could get Bleden Mark to submit, though insulting him in that last missive was hilarious. Was found innocent in the trial too much to my surprise. Had a hard time proving innocence in my initial Disfavored run so despite Tunon being my favorite character I figured i'd have to kill him. But somehow was found innocent in the first attempt and even managed to slip in some snarky answers. "Duskwatch would have looked terrible in purple" being my favorite. Guess i'll end the rambling comment here. That was a good listen and you've likely earned a new subscriber. I would donate too but ... i ain't gonna.
Another amazing work. I rarely like videos or subscribe to content creators. This one deserves support. I would support on patreon if I was financially solvent but nowadays, it's hard to get even 3 meals a day sometimes. Still, you have my heartfelt thanks and my admiration for your videos.
People keep goin "Man this game warped me into a supporter of kyros when I didn't plan to be" Meanwhile I'm here going "Hail Kyros. Eternal may his reign be." and complaining the game doesn't let you make it especially clear that you are a supporter of Kyros
Idk, I think you kind of miss the idea of the Anarchist path. I'm not sure the goal of the PC is to be the next Kyros or to just dismantle the entire system itself, believing themselves to be the only power that can do so. I love this game.
Om my second playthrough, i joyned the rebels and was very pleased to see that i could do that and still remain loyal to Kyros. I even mentioned that to the insurgend leaders that i merely allied with them to crush the two armies and make them subjects under the great overlord, just with a lot more autonomy like in the other options. Therefore in the end, Kyros granted the Tiers as my fiefdom and the peoples of the Land lived under me
To be fair, that was added in a patch, as originally, there was no 'remain loyal' option at all, no matter who you sided with. Mind, it's not the only way to get a real ending, considering there will never be a sequel at this point, sadly.
@@SageofStars Yea, it realy is too bad that it's unlikely to get a sequel, but also quite understandable. Making a Sequel that regards all possible modular endings would just be way too much effort!
You are my favourite UA-camr, Noah, i alwayd eagerly await your videos. You are an absolute breath of fresh air in an internet / popular cutlure that often makes me sick. You are a true intellectual
On my first (and so far only) playthrough of Tyranny, I did not compromise. I spoke Kyros' law in a way that Tunon was at once impressed and horrified by. Both Graven Ashe and Neraat lay dead at my feat, their archon power held by myself. Tunon bent the knee to me. I stood entirely loyal, but only to Kyros herself. Loyal, competent, and in utter and complete control. I feel it was the only and best ending for me. The "sincerity of conviction", the "language of power" yeah. It was an intoxicating experience. I loved every second, and probably won't play the game again. What greater height could I attain?
I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough as a leader of a rebellion against Kyros (Vendrien Guard playthrough) because it was the position of the underdog from the very start. I felt as though I had a steeper climb ahead of me, a near certainty of failure and maybe I was just giving everyone false hope and dooming them in to a deeper suffering, than a quick end to their war. I felt the story rewarded my stubborness to spit in Evil's face and not compromise, even though it was always the hardest path, requiring perseverence, risk-taking and cunning. The ending felt compelling to me as well. It was the end of this story, but it was the beginning of another one of war, treachery and suffering, where my character's righteousness and perseverance would be tested, like Graven Ashe's.
I've finally managed to get a job that allows me to (amongst other things) support you. It makes me very happy to be able to contribute to your channel and to your chosen lifepath. It's also a way to give back to you a very small portion of what you gave and continue to give in each video you upload. I've watched "Playtesting adventure" 13 times, and I believe it's my personal favourite. Thank you very much, Noah. Greetings from Argentina!
Tyranny is such a fascinating game and one of my favorite spiritual successors to the Baldur's Gate games from back in the day. It's definitely up there with KOTOR2 for being thought provoking and philosophical.
I've seen and read so many reviews where people mentioned that they have problems roleplaying as truly evil protagonists and making people suffer and I honestly do not understand - Is it hard for a lot of people to just roleplay as the character in the game? This isn't you, the player, it's a character in the game acting the way they would ( aka what your imagined background and personality would be ) With this barrier between me and the protagonist, I never had a problem to commit hideous crimes or be the absolute evil - This isn't me, I'm just witnessing a story told through the eyes of another person, in which I can greatly change the way the story will be told. Maybe I care more about interesting stories than feeling like a hero, but I honestly don't understand this point of many people - isn't the chosen one hero trope boring after a while and you want to play as a more nuanced person that isn't just an idealized version of yourself? Great video as always!
@Alvi Syahri Oh no, I'm absolutely with you! I rarely play the evil side in "normal" rpgs, there isn't really a well written path most of the time and yeah, it's mostly just "do you help the poor man, or do you slap him in the face and make everyone dislike you haha lmao" - in these cases it obviously doesn't make sense to act out of character, especially if the story kinda forces you into the hero role. But when the possibility is there, and there's enough for your mind to roleplay certain attributes and character flaws onto the protagonist, I really love to make the character act in certain ways that I probably wouldn't, you know? adds a little spice to a good story, I don't have to slaughter villages for this, but him/her being petty, jealous, having a fragile ego, or really bad temper - stuff like this for a basic rpg
I keep coming back to this video (this is my fifth ... sixth time ... ) because it is so content rich ... really makes you think about applying the game to the world around you. "When evil wins it is not the end; just a foul new beginning." That really puts a perspective on things
Wow, I watched this almost right at the start. Noah, as much as I will gripe about some of your ideas and conclusions elsewhere, you have said something important here. You're making me rethink whether or not I want to pursue a certain career path. As a Muslim especially.
Your wording of the narrative implications of the game really opened my eyes to the game's value. When I first played it, I realized the futility of keeping with the status quo, the inability of the local forces to overcome themselves, so I became cold and took the only path I thought there was left to even have the possibility of enacting meaningful change - I took power for myself. I did not know that there was a path of compromise where you could make peace with the rebels. This lack of any agency, whether you are working from within the systems of power or contrary to them, is a constant source of frustration for me in the recent years. When speaking of moral conviction, it must also be considered that any forceful change towards a way of thinking you consider appropriate and just would also require the sacrifice and suffering of those who consider their current reality the only alternative to ensure their continued survival. In this game, too, it seems that obtaining violent personal power or becoming a deviant but still complicit part of the existing status quo are the the only methods of saving your own moral identity and agency, however self-centric it may be. A very reflexive narrative, but fatalistic in equal parts and fairly depressing as a result.
You have convinced me again, to play a game. I grew up under a father who had Malignant Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I have confronted other Narcissists in my life already. I was often viewed as the antagonist, as “it's not worth it to fight him…” In the end, at one point, a person suggested that my “torture” of the narcissist was explicitly evil… my father posted something idiotic on my husband's wall, and I showed him just how I react to my father… with piss and vinegar, and bile and acid… he looked at it and was like, “woah, overreact much?” But is there any less appropriate response than to lash out against evil? Shouldn't evil suffer _just_ for being evil? … When everyone else has begun capitulating, because either they are complicit, or have found the fight not worth it… now the person standing up to the evil is the antagonist, and the outsider, and the “home” or “group” wrecker. Attempting to protect a previous family from the abuse of a person who when confronted with “we're pretty sure you're a sociopath.” His response was, “sure, why not.” … I had someone talk to me, and they have returned to the shelter of the abuse, and view _me_ as the cause of the pain and suffering… because evil can so easily throw anyone under the bus regardless… Now, I must see how I fair in this game… what happens, when a Paladin is forced to play a game that coerces you at all points to compromise against evil…
I know it's a 4 year old comment at this point but that reminds me of some of the philosophy one can takeaway from Warhammer 40k: that standing up to evil has merit in and of itself, regardless of what the ultimate end result will be. That at the end of the day it doesn't really matter whether you win or lose, live or die. The only thing that matters is that when faced with evil, rather than bowing down and accepting your fate, you stood. "I do not doubt your visions. But what do they change? Shall we stare up at the shadows and let our blades fall from our hands? Know this; there is more under the arch of heaven than victory and defeat. We may fall back, but not forever. We may yet be doomed to lose all we cherish, but we shall do so in the knowledge that we could have turned away, but did not. We remained true. [Horus' traitors] can never have this, not if they burn all we have ever built and scorn us through the dancing flames. You hear me? We remained true." Jaghatai Khan near the end of the Heresy, talking to a seer who had a vision of how the grimdark future of the Imperium will turn out (from Path Of Heaven by Chris Wraight)
@@cantankeroustank6904 that is an unusually inspiring piece from a fictional universe I saw mostly as grim dark. More should be made. Thanks for sharing it here.
I think I was too freedom loving as a person to understand the implications of this game -- I always did what I thought was right, spent hours on gaining trust from factions I deemed to be morally better than others and refused on sight to do anything that will disgust me. I somehow managed to revolt on my first playthrough also which is... probably fascinating. This video gave me a different perspective on this game, and I revisited it... spent three hours talking to a first companion trying to improve relationship with a murderous wretch who was spying on me. Yeah, thanks for your perspective, man.
I think the most interesting way to ply this game is as the "loyalist rebel." It was added in a late patch, but there is a way to, at the end, if you succeeded in your trial with Tunon, and have at every step of the way acted as a kyros Loyalist, to proclaim your fealty, and to be granted power over the tiers. What's so gutwrenchingly interesting about it though, is if you're on the rebel plotline, opposing Ashe for cowardice, and Nerat for disloyalty and building a power base of your own, loyal to kyros and kyros alone. You regularly browbeat your allies, and reprimand them when they speak of actually being a rebellion, going so far as to strike your commanders for not closing out with an appropriate 'hail kyros' Its a uniquely feeling awfulness to be the last, latest and greatest of the arch-collaborators, all while feeling entirely justified in character, because ironically, being a loyal servant the entire way is the only way to stay morally consistent(again, in character).
Would it be possible at all for you to post a transcript of this by any chance? This essay is really brilliant and it would be awesome to be able to disseminate it to a wider audience through text
This essay is outstanding, even among all the others you've done. Noah, you are one of the strongest voices in literary game critique, if not one of the loudest. I hope you can continue this forever. In a perfect world you could make a living doing this. Of course, in a perfect world reflective analytic criticism would be dull.
Damn man, I love this vid. Personally I was not that troubled by the moral choices in the game. What troubled me is how far some factions would "resist" by being total fools and letting people suffer as a result (edict of storms, for example). There is no point resisting even before the conquest, the map was already 99% Kyros. Therefore as strange at it may sound, resisting is a criminal act leading to death, Tunon was right.
i loved my first playthrough, even though just like you i felt bad over actions i had taken. In my mind my character became obsessed with creating unity and order in the world. When at first i questioned kyros and his brutal and sometimes absurd actions i soon found myself thinking that it doesn't truly matter who the overlord is. No matter his actual believes, if he wants to create unity and has the power to enforce it, this would be good no matter what. The peace of kyros become the end goal, no matter the cost. The game really pushed against you if you followed this line of thought, making the cost of that peace appear greater and greater... especially when it meant killing an infant and it's mother. This was a great experience as you truly felt, how a certain conviction can make you basically go mad. To me the only way this game could have been even greater, would be an ending where the troops of kyros march on even after you declare fealty to her/him. I would have loved to end my playthrough with my character letting himself drop from his spire to finalize the peace of the overlord.
After rewatching this one, I kind of want to see him cover Spiderweb's Geneforge series. That one puts you in the role of a Shaper, the most powerful of mages, as they alone have the power to Shape Essence, the very basis of life, into living constructs and creatures, and that has led them to conquer the known world. It has all the themes he tends to enjoy in his games. The situation has a binary moral choice system, but in the end, both sides are equally right and wrong, it depends on your point of view. What character do get development actually turn the story around in some ways(To be blunt, this as not a major project by a studio, but instead a smaller one by less than 10 people, even if they got 5 games out of it), and the gameplay has a focus on Creations, the living constructs, as you can make them to, and while how you treat them has no bearing on the plot, even where it should, it still tends to become a bit of Roleplaying, as your attitude towards them might influence how you see the people in the world as a whole. I doubt he'll ever cover it, but still, I think it's an interesting series that puts you in the role of someone morally grey, and then asks which side of greyness you want to be on.
@@DeoMachina Indeed, already bought it, and beat it, and dang is it good to see it running smooth. The additions are a bit thin, but they work in context, and here's hoping for 2-5 to really bring the A-game to them, liek the Avernum remakes did.(1 was pretty much the old game with them, with some new graphics, but then 2 was slightly different, and the remake of 3 might as well have been a different game, in a good way though, building on what had been there).
Another excelent video full of good content. I always have this vibe when I see his videos that I should be taking notes for the upcomming test or something. It's like watching an awesome class at the university, with a teacher who got some incredible insights.
While Rebel path might not be as solid as the rest of the story in Tyranny, it was my first, most sincere playthrough, and it was still very, very enjoyable During Conquest I understood I'm not playing as a hero. All I can do at this point is to minimise the casualties, with a risk of my actions biting me in the ass later. Same with Chapter 1. I helped both armies because I wanted them to be at full capacity. Because otherwise we all gonna die! But at the same time I tried to spare as much people as I can. At which point the oathbreakers took notice of it. Confused as I am they called me out ant tried to piece together who I am really. Considering they are going to die anyway, either by Edict or by swords, they tried to swear loyalty to me. I was... Intrigued to say the least. I did NOT expect the game to give me that way! So out of sheer curiosity I decided to give it a shot. The siege was a nightmare, mostly because a day prior a helped both armies the best I could. Including the Earthshakers... Yeah, oopsies... But at the end I came out victorious, and then even the Spire awoken, as if acknowledging my victory Chapter 2 went in a perpetual state of "oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit". You can say why. I am borderline the oathbreaker myself, both Ashe and Voices want my head above their fireplace, and even Tunon... Well... Tunon is a strange case. I felt like he was actually saving my ass, and at the same time I was testing his patience twisting the law to my salvation. Does it make sense to say that for me Tunon was like a fire? The one I use to protect myself and my people from predators yet the one I should handle with upmost caution? Still, he was my hope. Which came to bite me later at Chapter 3 And in Chapter 3 power started to take its toll on me. Failed to present the case about Voices of Nerat (as it turned out later I was unable to prove this amalgamation of lies and atrocities guilt, failed to prove his incompetence, yet I had a full deck of evidence against Graven Ashe, the one I actually respect :D), now it was my turn. And with all tiers united, all Spires awoken and even the power of edicts themselves at my fingertips I thought. Can I take you down, Tunon? I did. The person I genuinely respected and liked has fallen by my hands... The detail I fixed by reloading the game, but still. And the rest of Chapter 3 was pure creamy power fantasy. I killed all the archons (tried to settle things peacefully with Ashe because once again, I respect him), completed all quests I could find and the ending was... Satisfying It might come across some people as banal and common for a such a cynical game to have that wishy-washy good ending, but... I enjoyed it so much. The tiers are united. I rule as a representative of my allies. The laws are created to serve the people, not the other way around, and keeping them is Tunon, who's judgement I can fully trust. And even Kyros the Overlord was if not stopped, but delayed at least. Something which never happened before. Tyranny might be dark, yes. But even in a game like that a player can not only speak of kindness and compassion, but stick to his guns until the very end and make those words true. That was my first, thankfully blindfolded, playthrough. And it was a surge of emotions
You need to do a Anarchist playthrough of Tyranny. It's one of the most wonderful things you can do in a RPG and its so much more free! The freedom that path gives you feels and is incredible. Its like a completely different game when you go against the archons in order to yield to their version of order but to wield your own , fashioned by your own decisions. I ended with with the fealty of Sirin , Bleden Mark and Tunon himself. I killed Voices of Nerat and Graven Ashe. The power I held at that point was incredible , not just wealth , physical or mystical , but the raw power of being able to get things done, great things. Casting Edicts , leading Archons , slaying Archons , etc etc. Please do play through a pure Anarchist playthrough. It's amazing.
I found myself hating both factions by halfway through the game and have never finished it. I'm going to replay in this way and probably enjoy it much more.
That's exactly how power works in the world of Tyranny. The only way to stop Kyro's conquest is with raw power. The only time Kyros stops and pulls back his armies is when you show dominance. Dictatorship may as well he what you may call it but it's unarguably the better outcome than whatever Kyros might have left the world as. It's the lesser of two evils and at no point is it pointless. In fact it's the most meaningful change you can bring about in the game.
Isn't that how Kyros justifies her conquest? That her rule is inarguably better than the chaos the Tiers have been living under? That enforcing her peace is worth any means, even rampant murder and cruelty?
Based on that little topical blerb at the end I am quite sure we would agree on very little politically, but you are hands down my favorite video game reviewer on youtube. Make sure to do Homeworld 3 when it finally comes.
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I wish this game had received a sequel, I find this world to be far more interesting than the one in Pillars of Eternity.
really of their recent games this is the one that feels like a game obsidian would make.
I found it to be the opposite lol I enjoyed pillars of eternity and found Tyranny to be boring.
@@johngun7418 I preferred the world of Tyranny, but I agree with you that pillars overall was a better game and story.
I like them both so much
I also wish the developers create a 40K inquisitor game set in a Hive City, the themes present in Tyranny are also mostly present in 40K.
"When you let others speak through you, the yourself is diminished. There is power in words when you speak them sincerely. Crueler kind, but truly mean what you say what you mean, is to speak the language of power" - Noah Caldwell-Gervais
This quote goes in my personal archive
I like how you can subvert Kyros at the very beginning by waiting before reading the first edict. The edict says everyone will die on the day of the sword after the edict has been read. The day of the sword is 8 days after the start of the game. But if you wait until after the day of the sword to read the edict, you'll have an entire year until the next day of the sword.
Wait, that is actually a thing?
It was originally an accident, but yes, it's a thing. After the oversight was discovered the developers left it in, because it is an excellent demonstration of how it is possible to subvert the expectations of the rules being placed upon you.
He missed one thing in the video. If you save the queen you have the option to Join the Vendrien guard and be the leader of the resistance against Kyros, rallying the sages guild and the Unbroken behind you and killing both the Chorus and the Disfavored. You can have Tunon either join you if you convince him or you can kill him. If he joins you he will serve you and make laws help with the fallout left behind after the war. So you CAN actually subvert the entire concept that you HAVE to be a bad guy in the game, you can be a good guy but doing so is REALLY hard, you literally have to stumble upon the pre-requisite during the Conquest part of the game.
+David Bodor Its videogame sindrome. As PC, you are GOD, and the game cannot do anything about it.
@David Bodor but his words still stands true, you're still a new tyrant, ruling people under your LAW!
it maybe a benevolent leadership but still your just another kyros.
you will eventually conquer other lands under the pretext of kind benevolent leadership
kinda like america today.
see the similarity?
you say democracy at the same time destroy other people's lives with it.
I just found your channel and holy shit are you underated.
You should have seen him last year.
pttoau Weldezion
Go to Channel
Select videos
Scroll down
See last year.
hell yeah i listen to him while i'm running my line at work
He's the GOAT
noriah swagington share and spread the word, brother. do it for Noah!
This game was a powerful experience for me. I never really play "evil" in games. To get through this one, I found myself relying on Kyros' law to tell me what was right, and what was wrong. I followed the law to the letter. I did some of the most horrendous acts I've ever done in a game, but in doing them I followed Kyros' law and there was comfort in that. Actually reminds me of my experience with Papers Please, in a way.
Papers, Please is terrifying. Preserving your integrity is one thing. But having to choose between family and strangers is just brutal.
Comfort in following horrific commands? That comment says a lot about the average human psyche, and explains how nut jobs like Nazi's and other deplorable groups are able to recruit and carry out their crimes. So many small minded people out there.
@@nomadjensen8276 Of course there is comfort in following the law (i.e. Kyros), as it is the moral standard of that land. It's very easy to dismiss it as brutal from our modern point of view, both the Nazis and that of the game. But it's pretty naive to think one would be the morally perfect modern human one is today in every situation. Had you been spoonfed from an early age that some humans are not actual humans, but an enemy and more or less an worthless animal you would have less of a barrier to cross when you need to do what in that world is considered "good". In other times and other worlds, "deplorable" and "horrific" is the opposite. In 50 years, people may call us deplorable for any number of moral standards they enforce then that we don't have now.
This game actually does a pretty good job of showing different aspects in different environments and lets you play as the "modern normal human" and be chastised for its gullible humanism (which it is more or less considered in game) or take comfort in that it is the right thing to do in that world. Effectively forcing you to take the viewpoint of another culture, not as "perfect" as ours.
@@nomadjensen8276 nah i think you are right, its strange seeing people claiming that they find comfort in following the law in general, no matter if its horrific or not, i just find it psychologically interesting that some people are basically addicted to following the law, even when such law really is horrific and uncomfortable to follow e.g. Kyros, yet people still feel obliged to follow it to be a "good" guy
@@One.Zero.One101 "forcing him self to be evil by roleplaying" "why bring up nazis"... so essentially he is roleplaying what it is to be a nazi...
level of cognitive dissonance in your comment is astounding
They also added a new ending to the game path which lets you actually recruit the rebels to Kyros' cause. You remain loyal to the end and are named rightful ruler of the Tiers by Kyros but kill off the Disfavored and the Scarlet Chorus. Thus you spare the Tiers from their brutal rule in favor of your potentially more openhanded approach by governing in the Overlord's name. You can only end two of the three Edicts you encounter after the prologue, but this is potentially more beneficial to the greater good of the Tiers because choosing not to end the Edict of Stone gives the Beastmen a homeland to escape to. However, at least one of your companions see's this path as a massive betrayal and you've delivered the Tiers into the hands of Kyros' oppressive regime.
It's probably the best ending for the common people of the Tiers because it ends the war, potentially kills off the two factions that would have prayed on them the most, and ends a lot of the old, petty grudges they had with each other but it has some of the most personal betrayals in the game. I was definitely left feeling that I had compromised part of myself in the name of peace under Kyros and could have done better, even though the reality was that there wasn't any way to. Which is exactly how a game named "Tyranny" should make you feel. Plus, how many RPG games actually have the best ending locked behind stabbing one of your companions in the back.
the voices of barik or the voices of eb if nerat absorbed the tidecasters?
Coffee Break Hero I was talking about killing Graven Ashe and freeing Barik from his armor. Which he hates you for and only continues to follow you because he has no one else that will take him. However, you prevent Ashe from killing off the beastmen and stop the Tiers from becoming a slave state under the fascist Disfavored. Barik even calls you a “petty, backstabbing, power grabbing scavenger” and there isn’t even an option to really disagree with him because that’s exactly what you are at this point in the story. Great writing all around for this game.
Coffee Break Hero Btw, I always put down the Voices like a rabid dog. No room for the Scarlet Chorus in the new world order.
@@H240909 "new world order" lol.
if you surrender to kyros she's gonna casually execute you and if you try to fight her she only prospers in a new war.
also, even if you hate controlled chaos type of evil more than ashe's supremacy and self-apointed-justice (persoanlly I think bad guys who think they're good are much more dangerous for the world. see hitler) the voices of barik makes the chorus into a normal army, making it one of the best endings. it's not like the chorus people are bad. most of them just surrendered to kyros inevitablity and try to survive
and yea great writing. I had a moment when I broke down and cried a bit after I bullied barik with the athletic check to renounce his oath to ashe only to later find out it's useless. the voice acting on that line broke me
Coffee Break Hero “Casually execute you”? Yeah... no. They are just leaving the door open for another game. Also, Chorus people are awful. Sure they might convince themselves that they had no choice but the truth is they do. They choose to stay. And that’s the brilliant cruelty of the Chorus. It’s designed to bring out the worst in people or keep them in denial while they continue to do terrible things. Better for everyone to destroy it.
"Life continues after evil wins, but the roles are different. When an authority says 'look the other way', our eyes cast downward. When they say 'turn up the voltage', we reach out to do it. When they say 'obey the law', we do not ask who wrote the law in the first place." - Noah Caldwell-Gervais, March 2017
This is a quote worth remembering, particularly in these times.
Iyrsiiea
Its the usual pretentious "quote me i am quotable!" piece or blurb.
Evil, i think people nowadays have no fucking idea what evil avtually is.
You generally mistake common ineptitude and irresponsibility with Evil.
It's actually pretty thoughtful.
Marcin Smyczek
I do not need to ask who wrote the law, i can go look it up. Democracy.
When someone tells me to do something, i usually get a context as to why he wants me to do it. If he does not, i usually ask him, if i can not deduce the prupose based on what i know already.
As for lok the other way: no evil overlord required.
Look at #metoo, look at sjwdom. Look at political correctness. Black lives matter.
These movements and all those i did not list for brevitys sake are united in one purpose: to bend perception and reaction to their retarded causes.
Oh no, the negros life matters. Coming from a society that in the same breath curses the existence of whites and also treats animals better than the next best human.
Hobos? GAH! But look at that cute lost puppy, full if dideeases.
etc etc.
What is the authority he refers to?
An evil henchmen functionary? Your boss? A movement of people peddling their agenda?
hm?
As i said.
A wannabe quote bereft of meaning.
True, but most of us obey the law without knowledge about the people who helped bring it into creation and sometimes even its purpose. One can say it's conformism, but I find a sense of harmony in the system. Everything is in its place, and even if it goes a bit rusty sometimes, the wheels still spin.
Marcin Smyczek
o.o
what. dude you can go and look up who fostered what law (be it person or group or organization) and knowing who allows you to probe for motivation.
Perhaps one ye oldest laws? Thou shalt not kill?
Who? Anybody ever who had to organize the survival of a group.
Why? Order. Everybody going around murdering would be pretty disastrous for the group as a whole. Would you not agree?
How? Many ways, laws, beliefs, power of character. I am pretty sure we can come up with lots of reward\punishment measures to enforce this.
A banal law? Tge EU dictates shapes for vegetables. why? because bug business wanted it so in order to optimize transportation and shelf room.....
Law is nothing mystical. Motivation can be.
Words and how people view persons of power have a huge amount of power in Tyranny. Graven ashe, Tunon and your ascension to archon magic are due to how you all are viewed by the people around you (Ashe - Loyalty, love, Protection. Tunon - Law, justice, command. You - Edict binder, free agent) all give you the power that you have in the end. In the same way all of you have the weaknesses of those virtues (Pain from loss from every member of the disfavored, blindness to the intent of law, dependent on Kyros's edict manipulation). It is also shown that how people view you through favor or wrath system that you gain power from their love or fear.
Kyros him/herself is dependent on that too. According to the law, anyone who uses the name of Kyros in a sentence, the sentence MUST be true. So if you say "By Kyros you are dumb", you need to prove it or die. If you name a child Kyros, the child and it's family die. Kyros's name is sacrosanct. Tyranny in itself is about not only evil is done through a slow degrade of your moral compass and compromises, it's also about the power of words, languages and how people view you. It's the closest universe to apply narrative thought apart from Discworld.
It even follows terry prachett aspect that its worse to do something without caring if do something evil or good do it with all your heart and care for it. A assain should thrieve to do his work precisly and take responibilty for the kill. Vetenarni killed the mad lord who ruled before him and took resonibilty by making Ank-morkporg a better place. He even had a ark were the gods got punched in the face because lost touch with the People that gave them power
In my playthrough I manage to turn Tunon to my side. I always saw Tunon as my boss, so I always did what I considered justice, my own sense of justice, and at the end, Tunon saw that my justice was better, even if it was againts Kyros! I loved that!
I did what I could to saved peolple with knowledge and fairness... and savescumming my battles.
But I also killed Ash and Voices, and by extention, all of the Disfavored and Chorus. And a bunch of others that opposed me, in my quest for justice.
The power of savescumming made me (and my character) incredible confident, so I killed everyone I deemed evil. Eventualy, I had few allies, but I could protect the land, by using the Towers as superweapons in a cold war against Kyros... Mutual assured destruction...
What a happy ending :)
Aye Tunon is cool. Propably my favourite Archon.
I got him by my side in my legion playthough. In my rebel playthrough I killed him. And he was thankful for it. He was tired of living.
I had something similar, but I got Ashe to join me
Ah, savescumming - the power of CHIM.
Me too! I just finished my second playthrough as pro-rebel (I abandoned my first playthrough because helping disfavored made me sick to my stomach). Was happy I restarted to basically get the same ending you did.
I absolutely agree. Tunon is one of the best characters I ever encountered in any RPG ever. And hands down THE BEST "personification of justice"-type character ever! In any media!
He's stoic. Straightforward. Fair. But at the same time he doesn't have his head stuck in anyone's ass! His eyes are open. Thus you can actually make him see Kyros' laws are flawed
Which is one of the best scenes of the entire game. All the laws he's been enforcing are crumbling apart, and yet he joins Fate Binder to help him create new laws. I would've been happy just for that because tbh Tunon was pretty much my number one character in the entire game for the entire game. But Obsidian also included this part where Tunon is visibly ill after Kiros' laws are proven flawed. He's shocked, almost in pain. That's how loyal to the very idea of "laws" he is. But at the same time Tunon is not zealous to the point of being blind. And I absolutely love it
Gotta admit that while I loved Tyranny enough to play it with awful lag on a laptop that struggles to run Civ 5, I agree that the rebellion path was weaker. Which is a shame because I really wanted to see how far Obsidian would be willing to test my commitment to ending Kyros' rule.
If the rebellion path was tougher, more cruel and had more morally grey choices it could have been a great story of the compromises and mistakes actual resistance movements face. And it would be useful to remind people of that now
you can still end Kyros' rule, just not the way those common folk would like
Noah missed a few possibilities for the rebel playthrough.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 Yeah, Noah went the "anarchist" route, not rebel route. In the rebel route, there is waaaaay more to the story, including picking which allies to get, which places to protect/abandon, etc. I personally loved it *way* more than siding with anyone else.
I killed a baby in the rebel path, and it was a good choice in that context
@@headoverheels88 Noah already described the Anarchist route in the essay, which is following Bleden Mark's suggestions and fking over everybody.
That you managed to make this while living life by van is inspiring.
I love how you almost sound like a younger Lantry.
I know right?
Almost
I think the worst thing about the black and white approach of Bioware to morality is how non sensical the evil approach is.
For instance, in Dragon Age: Origins you meet a wounded soldier, the game lets you:
a) Heal him.
b) Ignore him.
C) Kill him.
But killing him makes no sense. It's evil, but stupidly evil. An intelligently evil approach would be to heal him, but the blackmail him to serve your purpose.
Personally, I prefer the more morally gray approach of the Witcher games.
Cynical Earth: I'll take Trump for $200, please.
Honestly, Bioware is extremely over-rated in their ability to tell story. They been basically writing the same story over and over again since Baldur's Gate.
What they are master of are making good characters. Their characterization and variety in both minor and major character is so good, it elevate their generic same 'player is the chosen one/star child who will save everyone, and most who isn't sucking the player's cock is either evil, retarded, or both (with very few exception for major villain who they give most attention and care, like Logain from DA:O. He is down right my favorite villain character in all the games I played.)' generic plot look more interesting than they really are when you strip it down to the core.
What the Witcher really emphasizes is shades of grey in everyone, including the most despicable of characters. It's one of the main reason's I love the series so much. More over, the choices you often have to make particularly the ones that can have a strong impact on the narrative. Are made with the notion of choosing between the lesser evil. Plus often times the decision that seems the most well intentioned can often have the most significant and downright horrifying out come. I won't go too into spoilers but one example would be from the 2nd game, when you have to choose knock out Iroveth or give him his sword. For those who have finished the game several times, you know what happens after you hand him his sword.
"An intelligently evil approach would be to heal him, but the blackmail him to serve your purpose." That is not intelligent evil either, you're not swaying him down to your level/side.
+captainsealed
Killing a wounded soldier to make his pain go away its not a evil choice.
I got this game because what you were saying about it just sounded fascinating. And I'm floored with the thematic depth this game provides. I have not played a game this rich since... Forever? Every piece of dialogue is crafted for you to understand the implications of what's happening, and it is, as you say, draining because these themes aren't light either.
I think I'm just discovering these kinds of games, so if anyone has recommendations of others that have this depth, I'll be very grateful.
most of obsidians games are well written like tyranny, also most black isle and old bioware games are well written. That been said the theme of most games vary greatly. I can personally recommend planescape torment as the best Crpg ever written, is orders of magnitude more deep than tyranny. Also neverwinter night mask of the betrayer. But you should check recent works as well like pillars of eternity and the new torment tides of numenera games. Many crpgs have great story lines but different themes. Also there is a whole genre of games called visual novels that while not very popular in the west are one of the most played genre of games in the east and have many games that are pure gold in storytelling like Steins;Gate. But that is a whole new world and not everyone's cup of tea. Sorry for my English.
The only one I can think of directly is the Baldur's Gate series. Although, in won't give you as much insight into "justice" as Tyranny does it, Baldur's Gate has another take on personal decisions. As long as you don't try to be the Kill-all-because-I-am-sooo-evil you will have to face conflicts concerning your morale and what your actons depict. Furthermore, the story is immersive as is the uniserve of the Forgotten Realms.
To me, having the *choice* makes the rebellion plotline in Tyranny feel far more vital and real and alive than it does in other games. The fact that it's not the core assumption of the game - that I had to WORK MY ASS OFF to do it, the fact I had seen all these people die by MY OWN HAND a mere five hours before (Yes, I did immediately replay the game, why do you ask?) made it feel...so much more impactful.
26:15 Actually being the Queenslayer won't stop you from joining the Vendrien Guard. You need to release all of the Vendrien captains you find (I believe there are two of them) and went Ebb meets with you to ask about her friend you need to tell her about the edict and remain honest throughout the conversation.
I've never actually played a game that explores concepts of power and the murky, difficult choices of its wielding better than Tyranny. The game has tons of jank but I still can't think of a game that actually made me really, truly grapple with the ramifications of my actions so intensely. Also that it is basically set in a bronze age Steven Erikson novel is sweet.
Oh yeah, big Tenescowri vibes ❤
Tyranny was my favorite RPG of the year (having also played Age of Decadence and Shadowrun Returns) so I'm so glad to see you reviewing it.
Victor X Age of Decadence? If it's as good as the other two I might try it
It's very rough around the edges and looks like a game that came out in 2003, but it's certainly unique in its open-endedness. It was a 7/10 because it didn't really draw me in, but I could see a lot of good in it, especially in how, like a classic pen-and-paper, the player character is no more special than any other man on the street.
Shhh, don't tell the codex that
The first moment I truly felt this game was when I made Lantry swear fealty to me. I didn't trust him before I did it, but after I did it I immediately realized that I was walking in the footsteps of the Practical Incarnation from Planescape: Torment, and that left a prolonged bitter feeling that was hard to shake. Like I was starting something I'll have to fix and answer for later.
Very itnricate explanation of the different factions and your play experience. Beautiful video.
man, i couldnt finish the review, i just wanna play so much now that i dont want to hear anything else. thanks.
Just wanna take a moment to appreciate your budget intros and outros. They bring a lot of charm to your videos.
This just reminds me that I would *kill* to see you do a video essay on KOTOR 2.
He should make one on both KOTOR games. It be a good look at the key differences (and similarities) between Bioware and Obsidian's styles of story telling. It would also be interesting to see which studio captured the feeling of Star Wars better.
@@slyfer60 The feeling of Star Wars is - for the majority of fans - more simplistic and traditional than not. In that respect KOTOR 1 captured the 'feel' of Star Wars much better than a lot of the now-extant films do - however KOTOR 2 is a bold-faced subversion of traditional star wars philosophy and an exploration of it as presented in the first KOTOR and perhaps for this reason it's more important for the Star Wars universe as a whole, in much the same way a comic like 'The Killing Joke' or 'Year One' is lauded and influential within the Batman franchise despite perhaps not being considered canon for some other timelines and spin-offs of the IP, KOTOR 2's influence is seen in bits and pieces of other Star Wars media - even The Last Jedi lifted thematic crumbs, though without cohesion or commitment (or perhaps even understanding) of those ideas.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 I disagree with your point about "The Last Jedi" being a failure to understand KOTOR 2 that implies that the Writer/Director (Rian Johnson) had to have played said game. In order to not understand it one needs to engage with it.
I think a look back at the KOTOR games would be fantastic, KOTOR 2 has been refereced in at least three videos
@@slyfer60 just to give the benefit of the doubt he may have meant the ideas presented in kotor 2 were responses to the internal logic of star wars and later films touched on some of the same observations about the world without ever taking the concepts as far as kotor 2. So they did manage to make the same points about the source material independantly, but failed to understand those ideas they'd stumbled on to the same extent. In not a star wars guy but reading through that comment they werent explicitly saying that kotor inspired the directors.
Recently watched furiosa. The way dementus is shown to recruit early on, by having the captured people compete for the available motorcycles, reminds me of how you describe the scarlet chorus here.
The best video you have put out to date. My parents lived through the dictatorship during the 80´s in Chile. It´s amazing how similar the attitude of the characters in this game is to the actual attitude people had when they were under a regime where nobody had rights except for the ones who wielded the power.
I've listened to this video essay nine times. I can't put into words how brilliantly beautiful I think it is. You've put into words so many concepts that I've been desperately trying to explain to people when they ask why Tyranny is my favorite game, and I honestly adore you for it.
make that ten times
eleven!
Absolutely great in-depth video! Watched this many times by now. Tyranny is one of my most favorite if not THE most favorite CRPG of mine mostly because of it's setting and story. And your video made me appreciate and love the game even more. Thank you for this video, Noah. Keep up the good work!
the recruting method of the scarlet chorus ewminds me of the way militias in the former Yugoslavia and in the civil wars of Africa would recruit by wining the favoure of young teens by showing intrest in these children's interests and then forcing them to kill members of there village severing the childs ties with that vilage and forcing them closer to the militia
your ending was perfectly insightful. sincerity of conviction indeed
This definitely reminds me of when I played Skyrim and found myself at the start of the Brotherhood quest. I knew there must be some way to destroy it, but I foolishly thought that I could do so "from the inside". That led to me being very surprised when suddenly id usurped the power and became the favorite of that mummy lady. I felt cheap and complicit for the purpose of gaining power. Where Skyrim ruined its momentum though, was that it rewarded me the entire way with morally grey assassinations and with really cool gear and a rocking demon steed, so I felt angry that I couldn't inact my plans of internal sabotage but I didn't question it any further because the cool horse had glowy eyes. It simply mistook my intentions, and I was happy enough to just go along with it, only a little bit annoyed that my plan didn't "work". Skyrims whole thing was about the power trip though; in a way it would have been a failure if you had to cruely face the terrible ramifications of your actions. It did make me think about the whole "change from the inside" argument when it comes to reform though, and how it would have to look (how much change, how far inside) to work, if ever.
38:13 as someone living in the USA, this rings so true with me. Our society, a deeply Fascist one, is evil. Almost completely pure evil. I try my best as a revolutionary to fight back but at the end of the day, I can't go bombing buildings and punching cops. When evil wins, the fight isn't over. It's just entered a different phase. However, Humans instinctively yearn for freedom. Freedom from economic, political, societal, etc domination. That gives me hope. Tyranny is wrong, Human nature by our evolutionary past is inherently collaborative.
Just did a rewatch of this video, having watched it years ago when it was much newer, and just thought I’d throw a nice word into the comments section to help the algorithm.
Your work, as always is fantastic. Keep it up and we’ll keep watching.
"Tyranny is a game that says a world of magic and wolfmen is less of a fantasy than the assumption we are all fundamentally decent people, who will act according to our morals."
Harsh but true.
I think this is your best critique I've seen in terms of analyzing themes and explaining emotional impact. Thanks for the hard work and the good content.
dammit man, I was about to go to bed.
Rob Car same
Rob Car Me three.
Rob Car I went to bed, and it was still here when I woke up :P
Madness
right... thanks Ser Gervais
My god you're just on another planet among game critics Noah! I wish I could meet you one day...
Man, Kotor 2 was just the best rpg I've ever played.
The Restored Content Mod easily pushes its quality into being the best RPG probably ever.
Play Tyranny, you would love it.
@David Nash Welcome to KOTOR. lol
I feel like Planescape Torment is probably better on certain levels, but KotOR II just connected with me so much. I can't articulate why.
It's odd. I had no problem watching the Desserts or Kharak video, getting spoiled about the game, and then wanting to play it anyways. But I have absolutely no intention of watching this until I have a chance to play and finish Tyranny at least once.
if you watch this video without finishing the game first you will deprave yourself of very nice surprises
thats for sure :-)
How is that odd? CRPGs are defined by their story. An RTS isn't.
if you finish all the endings you are gonna enjoy the video or discussion about this game even more
Tue opposite for me, i couldnt care less for this game but it being a free pick on egs recently and this vid has bumbed it way up on my to play list.
To be clear, in Milgram (1963) the participants were not able to see the confederate while they were administering the electric shocks, but your overall point still stands.
The whole Milgram experiment circlejerk is, truth be told, quite annoying. A vast majority of the participants were quite reluctant when asked to administrate stronger shocks. Most of the transcripts show that only a few of them went along the experiment without complaining, arguing, or getting mad with Milgram's team. You can even see videos of it, where the pseudo-scientists start yelling or flexing at the participants because they refuse to do what they're told.
Then it somehow became so overarching, undeniable proof that people will blindly follow any authority, when it was much more complicated than that.
24:00 That was a brilliant bit of between-the-lines-reading you did there. It never occured to me that the varying interpretations of Kyros' law corresponded to the varying expressions used for a core sigil in the magic system. If Kyros started out as an archon, then Law would have been his sigil, which also explains why nobody knows Tunon's sigil - his is derivative of Kyros.
Nothing short of brilliant. Just as we as the player are putting our own accents on the four main factions / playthrough options.
The Disfavoured and the Scarlet Chorus sound like the extremely right and the extremely left respectively
You missed the single, most important lesson of Tyranny: being loyal to a tyrant is outright impossible. Kyros Peace is a massive lie that was immediately broken by a civil war, Kyros is very obviously just trying to get everyone in the valley killed, and the player HAS to break the law to finish the game.
And this contradiction is built into the system deliberately: the law is nothing more than a legal basis to kill threats to Kyros; and make no mistake, EVERY Arcon is a threat, which will eventually include the player. As an example, Kyros did not offer to make the Disfavored a part of the empire, but rather, the Arcons under Kyros decided that, and Kyros had no choice but to agree, because doing otherwise makes Kyros look less in control than she pretends to be. They became the Disfavored because Kyros literally wanted them dead from the start, but was too afraid to be direct about it.
Because ultimately, every tyrant is ultimately just as vulnerable to their morally bankrupt underlings as the rest of the planet.
I think of the conversation you have in the missives with that former fatebinder, who asks if you think Kyros would issue an edict with consequences she couldn't stand. It's not necessarily that Kyros WANTED the archons to die at the well, but he did find it an acceptable outcome. There's still edicts going on all over the world so presumably those that go on indefinitely are acceptable too, devastating an area in perpetuity is an acceptable alternative to Kyros actually getting what she says she wants.
The law works the same. I'm sure it's not all intentionally cruel, but the cruelty is factored in and an acceptable consequence.
The worst part of this video is that it isn't longer. Well done, sir!
I love what you do Noah. Like I really love it, for the better part of a decade now it feels like. I've watched this video before but only in passing, I watched Mandalore Gaming's video on Tyranny and I didn't feel too bad about not getting into Tyranny, but watching the first bit of this video completely rejigged my perspective and I'm all in on it. Downloading as I type.
Watching this on Jan. 6, 2021 is quite something.
This is legitimately amazing. Drawing attention to the artistic merit in video games isn't an easy task by any means, but you do it with aplomb, broski.
I fell in love with this game straight away and have put in way more time than is healthy experimenting with different character types. Absolute favorite playthrough was a lawbreaker than made the rebels work for him. Was a run full of extortion, intimidation & politicing the hell out of the court and i loved every second of it. One line from Barik was the crowning moment of the playthrough. It was near the end of his companion quest during a conversation on the spire and went something like: "You lie. You cheat. You distort everything to fit your own twisted ends!" Sadly there was no option to respond "go ooon!" but the conversation still had me rolling.
It's really interesting how loyalty and fear aren't mutually exclusive in Tyranny. Gives the player a lot more freedom in how they act toward the companions instead of feeling forced to pick the straightforward increase/decrease approval options like in other games.
Aside from that one conversation every single choice fit perfectly into how i wanted the character to behave. He may not have been a hero by the end of the game but he got everything he wanted and more. Only thing that would have made it better would be if you could get Bleden Mark to submit, though insulting him in that last missive was hilarious. Was found innocent in the trial too much to my surprise. Had a hard time proving innocence in my initial Disfavored run so despite Tunon being my favorite character I figured i'd have to kill him. But somehow was found innocent in the first attempt and even managed to slip in some snarky answers. "Duskwatch would have looked terrible in purple" being my favorite.
Guess i'll end the rambling comment here. That was a good listen and you've likely earned a new subscriber. I would donate too but ... i ain't gonna.
Another amazing work. I rarely like videos or subscribe to content creators. This one deserves support. I would support on patreon if I was financially solvent but nowadays, it's hard to get even 3 meals a day sometimes. Still, you have my heartfelt thanks and my admiration for your videos.
People keep goin "Man this game warped me into a supporter of kyros when I didn't plan to be"
Meanwhile I'm here going "Hail Kyros. Eternal may his reign be." and complaining the game doesn't let you make it especially clear that you are a supporter of Kyros
Idk, I think you kind of miss the idea of the Anarchist path. I'm not sure the goal of the PC is to be the next Kyros or to just dismantle the entire system itself, believing themselves to be the only power that can do so.
I love this game.
This game really reminded me of Papers, Please, and that is a huge compliment
Besides...
*Evil always find a way*...
Do a through look at the Evil Overlord.
Please.
Om my second playthrough, i joyned the rebels and was very pleased to see that i could do that and still remain loyal to Kyros. I even mentioned that to the insurgend leaders that i merely allied with them to crush the two armies and make them subjects under the great overlord, just with a lot more autonomy like in the other options. Therefore in the end, Kyros granted the Tiers as my fiefdom and the peoples of the Land lived under me
To be fair, that was added in a patch, as originally, there was no 'remain loyal' option at all, no matter who you sided with. Mind, it's not the only way to get a real ending, considering there will never be a sequel at this point, sadly.
@@SageofStars
Yea, it realy is too bad that it's unlikely to get a sequel, but also quite understandable. Making a Sequel that regards all possible modular endings would just be way too much effort!
You are my favourite UA-camr, Noah, i alwayd eagerly await your videos. You are an absolute breath of fresh air in an internet / popular cutlure that often makes me sick. You are a true intellectual
On my first (and so far only) playthrough of Tyranny, I did not compromise. I spoke Kyros' law in a way that Tunon was at once impressed and horrified by. Both Graven Ashe and Neraat lay dead at my feat, their archon power held by myself. Tunon bent the knee to me. I stood entirely loyal, but only to Kyros herself. Loyal, competent, and in utter and complete control. I feel it was the only and best ending for me. The "sincerity of conviction", the "language of power" yeah. It was an intoxicating experience. I loved every second, and probably won't play the game again. What greater height could I attain?
One of your best in my opinion. Great work.
You're one of those people that just has a voice that's just purely listenable. Like Carl Sagan.
TheOutlawed1000 lol imagine if Sargon got into a political debate with Noah?
They are all great to listen to though.
@@spencerkitchin2985 Well, 2/3 ain't bad.
I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough as a leader of a rebellion against Kyros (Vendrien Guard playthrough) because it was the position of the underdog from the very start. I felt as though I had a steeper climb ahead of me, a near certainty of failure and maybe I was just giving everyone false hope and dooming them in to a deeper suffering, than a quick end to their war. I felt the story rewarded my stubborness to spit in Evil's face and not compromise, even though it was always the hardest path, requiring perseverence, risk-taking and cunning. The ending felt compelling to me as well. It was the end of this story, but it was the beginning of another one of war, treachery and suffering, where my character's righteousness and perseverance would be tested, like Graven Ashe's.
"mr. house isn't evil!!" i scream as my karma plummets in the wake of his assassination, his desiccated flesh dissolving in my belly
I've finally managed to get a job that allows me to (amongst other things) support you. It makes me very happy to be able to contribute to your channel and to your chosen lifepath. It's also a way to give back to you a very small portion of what you gave and continue to give in each video you upload. I've watched "Playtesting adventure" 13 times, and I believe it's my personal favourite. Thank you very much, Noah. Greetings from Argentina!
Tyranny is such a fascinating game and one of my favorite spiritual successors to the Baldur's Gate games from back in the day. It's definitely up there with KOTOR2 for being thought provoking and philosophical.
I've seen and read so many reviews where people mentioned that they have problems roleplaying as truly evil protagonists and making people suffer and I honestly do not understand - Is it hard for a lot of people to just roleplay as the character in the game? This isn't you, the player, it's a character in the game acting the way they would ( aka what your imagined background and personality would be )
With this barrier between me and the protagonist, I never had a problem to commit hideous crimes or be the absolute evil - This isn't me, I'm just witnessing a story told through the eyes of another person, in which I can greatly change the way the story will be told.
Maybe I care more about interesting stories than feeling like a hero, but I honestly don't understand this point of many people - isn't the chosen one hero trope boring after a while and you want to play as a more nuanced person that isn't just an idealized version of yourself?
Great video as always!
@Alvi Syahri Oh no, I'm absolutely with you! I rarely play the evil side in "normal" rpgs, there isn't really a well written path most of the time and yeah, it's mostly just "do you help the poor man, or do you slap him in the face and make everyone dislike you haha lmao" - in these cases it obviously doesn't make sense to act out of character, especially if the story kinda forces you into the hero role. But when the possibility is there, and there's enough for your mind to roleplay certain attributes and character flaws onto the protagonist, I really love to make the character act in certain ways that I probably wouldn't, you know? adds a little spice to a good story, I don't have to slaughter villages for this, but him/her being petty, jealous, having a fragile ego, or really bad temper - stuff like this for a basic rpg
You're offocially my favorite channel. I m around your age and I could listen to you for hours even going on about games I'll never play.
I keep coming back to this video (this is my fifth ... sixth time ... ) because it is so content rich ... really makes you think about applying the game to the world around you.
"When evil wins it is not the end; just a foul new beginning." That really puts a perspective on things
3:30 AM with work in 4 more hours , but when I see that notification I'm inclined to watch it.
Another sweet, sweet present by my favorite youtuber ever - Noah!
Man I love your videos. Never stop providing us with content if you can.
I really wish this game would get a sequel. It and this channel are still vastly unappreciated for how good they are.
who knew a video game review could be so powerful. It hit me where I didn't know I was lacking. Thank you.
Wow, I watched this almost right at the start. Noah, as much as I will gripe about some of your ideas and conclusions elsewhere, you have said something important here. You're making me rethink whether or not I want to pursue a certain career path. As a Muslim especially.
Your wording of the narrative implications of the game really opened my eyes to the game's value. When I first played it, I realized the futility of keeping with the status quo, the inability of the local forces to overcome themselves, so I became cold and took the only path I thought there was left to even have the possibility of enacting meaningful change - I took power for myself. I did not know that there was a path of compromise where you could make peace with the rebels. This lack of any agency, whether you are working from within the systems of power or contrary to them, is a constant source of frustration for me in the recent years. When speaking of moral conviction, it must also be considered that any forceful change towards a way of thinking you consider appropriate and just would also require the sacrifice and suffering of those who consider their current reality the only alternative to ensure their continued survival. In this game, too, it seems that obtaining violent personal power or becoming a deviant but still complicit part of the existing status quo are the the only methods of saving your own moral identity and agency, however self-centric it may be. A very reflexive narrative, but fatalistic in equal parts and fairly depressing as a result.
22:32.I am willing to bet that some of the the work that went into Tyranny's magic system is being used in Avowed.
You have convinced me again, to play a game. I grew up under a father who had Malignant Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I have confronted other Narcissists in my life already.
I was often viewed as the antagonist, as “it's not worth it to fight him…” In the end, at one point, a person suggested that my “torture” of the narcissist was explicitly evil… my father posted something idiotic on my husband's wall, and I showed him just how I react to my father… with piss and vinegar, and bile and acid… he looked at it and was like, “woah, overreact much?”
But is there any less appropriate response than to lash out against evil? Shouldn't evil suffer _just_ for being evil? … When everyone else has begun capitulating, because either they are complicit, or have found the fight not worth it… now the person standing up to the evil is the antagonist, and the outsider, and the “home” or “group” wrecker.
Attempting to protect a previous family from the abuse of a person who when confronted with “we're pretty sure you're a sociopath.” His response was, “sure, why not.” … I had someone talk to me, and they have returned to the shelter of the abuse, and view _me_ as the cause of the pain and suffering… because evil can so easily throw anyone under the bus regardless…
Now, I must see how I fair in this game… what happens, when a Paladin is forced to play a game that coerces you at all points to compromise against evil…
I know it's a 4 year old comment at this point but that reminds me of some of the philosophy one can takeaway from Warhammer 40k: that standing up to evil has merit in and of itself, regardless of what the ultimate end result will be. That at the end of the day it doesn't really matter whether you win or lose, live or die. The only thing that matters is that when faced with evil, rather than bowing down and accepting your fate, you stood.
"I do not doubt your visions. But what do they change? Shall we stare up at the shadows and let our blades fall from our hands? Know this; there is more under the arch of heaven than victory and defeat.
We may fall back, but not forever. We may yet be doomed to lose all we cherish, but we shall do so in the knowledge that we could have turned away, but did not. We remained true.
[Horus' traitors] can never have this, not if they burn all we have ever built and scorn us through the dancing flames. You hear me? We remained true."
Jaghatai Khan near the end of the Heresy, talking to a seer who had a vision of how the grimdark future of the Imperium will turn out (from Path Of Heaven by Chris Wraight)
@@cantankeroustank6904 that is an unusually inspiring piece from a fictional universe I saw mostly as grim dark. More should be made.
Thanks for sharing it here.
I think I was too freedom loving as a person to understand the implications of this game -- I always did what I thought was right, spent hours on gaining trust from factions I deemed to be morally better than others and refused on sight to do anything that will disgust me. I somehow managed to revolt on my first playthrough also which is... probably fascinating. This video gave me a different perspective on this game, and I revisited it... spent three hours talking to a first companion trying to improve relationship with a murderous wretch who was spying on me. Yeah, thanks for your perspective, man.
I think the most interesting way to ply this game is as the "loyalist rebel." It was added in a late patch, but there is a way to, at the end, if you succeeded in your trial with Tunon, and have at every step of the way acted as a kyros Loyalist, to proclaim your fealty, and to be granted power over the tiers.
What's so gutwrenchingly interesting about it though, is if you're on the rebel plotline, opposing Ashe for cowardice, and Nerat for disloyalty and building a power base of your own, loyal to kyros and kyros alone. You regularly browbeat your allies, and reprimand them when they speak of actually being a rebellion, going so far as to strike your commanders for not closing out with an appropriate 'hail kyros'
Its a uniquely feeling awfulness to be the last, latest and greatest of the arch-collaborators, all while feeling entirely justified in character, because ironically, being a loyal servant the entire way is the only way to stay morally consistent(again, in character).
Would it be possible at all for you to post a transcript of this by any chance? This essay is really brilliant and it would be awesome to be able to disseminate it to a wider audience through text
Your analyses are the first UA-cam gaming videos that I consider to be edifying. Thank you!
This essay is outstanding, even among all the others you've done. Noah, you are one of the strongest voices in literary game critique, if not one of the loudest. I hope you can continue this forever. In a perfect world you could make a living doing this. Of course, in a perfect world reflective analytic criticism would be dull.
This game has to be the most underrated rpg of the decade. Every playthrough made me feel dirty in
some way
I broke the law and the law won! You are my kindred soul Noah, had me in chills at end. Keep up the good work brotha!
Damn man, I love this vid. Personally I was not that troubled by the moral choices in the game. What troubled me is how far some factions would "resist" by being total fools and letting people suffer as a result (edict of storms, for example).
There is no point resisting even before the conquest, the map was already 99% Kyros. Therefore as strange at it may sound, resisting is a criminal act leading to death, Tunon was right.
Tyranny for Pillars feels like Planescape for Baldur's - creative freedom and real inspiration that gave us interesting, but niche game
Was just thinking about watching one of your videos (again) and you post a new one!
They better make a sequel to this game.
This is still one of my favourite videos of yours, it's just so amazing and eloquent
Tyranny just moved right up my wishlist, excellent video as always!
Instant love for the intro music! (Not Jello Biafra but...)
Just stumbles on your channel looking for some discussion about one of my favorite games i played recently. You do good work.
i loved my first playthrough, even though just like you i felt bad over actions i had taken. In my mind my character became obsessed with creating unity and order in the world. When at first i questioned kyros and his brutal and sometimes absurd actions i soon found myself thinking that it doesn't truly matter who the overlord is. No matter his actual believes, if he wants to create unity and has the power to enforce it, this would be good no matter what. The peace of kyros become the end goal, no matter the cost. The game really pushed against you if you followed this line of thought, making the cost of that peace appear greater and greater... especially when it meant killing an infant and it's mother. This was a great experience as you truly felt, how a certain conviction can make you basically go mad.
To me the only way this game could have been even greater, would be an ending where the troops of kyros march on even after you declare fealty to her/him. I would have loved to end my playthrough with my character letting himself drop from his spire to finalize the peace of the overlord.
After rewatching this one, I kind of want to see him cover Spiderweb's Geneforge series. That one puts you in the role of a Shaper, the most powerful of mages, as they alone have the power to Shape Essence, the very basis of life, into living constructs and creatures, and that has led them to conquer the known world.
It has all the themes he tends to enjoy in his games. The situation has a binary moral choice system, but in the end, both sides are equally right and wrong, it depends on your point of view. What character do get development actually turn the story around in some ways(To be blunt, this as not a major project by a studio, but instead a smaller one by less than 10 people, even if they got 5 games out of it), and the gameplay has a focus on Creations, the living constructs, as you can make them to, and while how you treat them has no bearing on the plot, even where it should, it still tends to become a bit of Roleplaying, as your attitude towards them might influence how you see the people in the world as a whole.
I doubt he'll ever cover it, but still, I think it's an interesting series that puts you in the role of someone morally grey, and then asks which side of greyness you want to be on.
Geneforge just got a remaster this week, so maybe!
@@DeoMachina Indeed, already bought it, and beat it, and dang is it good to see it running smooth. The additions are a bit thin, but they work in context, and here's hoping for 2-5 to really bring the A-game to them, liek the Avernum remakes did.(1 was pretty much the old game with them, with some new graphics, but then 2 was slightly different, and the remake of 3 might as well have been a different game, in a good way though, building on what had been there).
@@SageofStars To my shame I never beat the original because my little guy died and I got stuck in the desert :(
I'm listening this essay for the 3th time, and I still get shivers the way you explain the messages of this game.
Another excelent video full of good content. I always have this vibe when I see his videos that I should be taking notes for the upcomming test or something. It's like watching an awesome class at the university, with a teacher who got some incredible insights.
I'm a little bit proud to say that my first playthrough was one of rebellion, where I united the tiers
While Rebel path might not be as solid as the rest of the story in Tyranny, it was my first, most sincere playthrough, and it was still very, very enjoyable
During Conquest I understood I'm not playing as a hero. All I can do at this point is to minimise the casualties, with a risk of my actions biting me in the ass later. Same with Chapter 1. I helped both armies because I wanted them to be at full capacity. Because otherwise we all gonna die! But at the same time I tried to spare as much people as I can. At which point the oathbreakers took notice of it. Confused as I am they called me out ant tried to piece together who I am really. Considering they are going to die anyway, either by Edict or by swords, they tried to swear loyalty to me. I was... Intrigued to say the least. I did NOT expect the game to give me that way! So out of sheer curiosity I decided to give it a shot. The siege was a nightmare, mostly because a day prior a helped both armies the best I could. Including the Earthshakers... Yeah, oopsies... But at the end I came out victorious, and then even the Spire awoken, as if acknowledging my victory
Chapter 2 went in a perpetual state of "oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit". You can say why. I am borderline the oathbreaker myself, both Ashe and Voices want my head above their fireplace, and even Tunon... Well... Tunon is a strange case. I felt like he was actually saving my ass, and at the same time I was testing his patience twisting the law to my salvation. Does it make sense to say that for me Tunon was like a fire? The one I use to protect myself and my people from predators yet the one I should handle with upmost caution? Still, he was my hope. Which came to bite me later at Chapter 3
And in Chapter 3 power started to take its toll on me. Failed to present the case about Voices of Nerat (as it turned out later I was unable to prove this amalgamation of lies and atrocities guilt, failed to prove his incompetence, yet I had a full deck of evidence against Graven Ashe, the one I actually respect :D), now it was my turn. And with all tiers united, all Spires awoken and even the power of edicts themselves at my fingertips I thought. Can I take you down, Tunon? I did. The person I genuinely respected and liked has fallen by my hands... The detail I fixed by reloading the game, but still. And the rest of Chapter 3 was pure creamy power fantasy. I killed all the archons (tried to settle things peacefully with Ashe because once again, I respect him), completed all quests I could find and the ending was... Satisfying
It might come across some people as banal and common for a such a cynical game to have that wishy-washy good ending, but... I enjoyed it so much. The tiers are united. I rule as a representative of my allies. The laws are created to serve the people, not the other way around, and keeping them is Tunon, who's judgement I can fully trust. And even Kyros the Overlord was if not stopped, but delayed at least. Something which never happened before. Tyranny might be dark, yes. But even in a game like that a player can not only speak of kindness and compassion, but stick to his guns until the very end and make those words true. That was my first, thankfully blindfolded, playthrough. And it was a surge of emotions
An Iron Shortage? Reminds me of something, thought I took care of this in Nashkél though.
You need to do a Anarchist playthrough of Tyranny. It's one of the most wonderful things you can do in a RPG and its so much more free! The freedom that path gives you feels and is incredible. Its like a completely different game when you go against the archons in order to yield to their version of order but to wield your own , fashioned by your own decisions. I ended with with the fealty of Sirin , Bleden Mark and Tunon himself. I killed Voices of Nerat and Graven Ashe. The power I held at that point was incredible , not just wealth , physical or mystical , but the raw power of being able to get things done, great things. Casting Edicts , leading Archons , slaying Archons , etc etc.
Please do play through a pure Anarchist playthrough. It's amazing.
I found myself hating both factions by halfway through the game and have never finished it. I'm going to replay in this way and probably enjoy it much more.
Yeah you can totally say fuck off to both factions and craft your own way through. I would recommend getting both the DLCs before playing it again.
He did? He called it pointless... A rebellion of one only leads to another dictatorship
That's exactly how power works in the world of Tyranny. The only way to stop Kyro's conquest is with raw power. The only time Kyros stops and pulls back his armies is when you show dominance. Dictatorship may as well he what you may call it but it's unarguably the better outcome than whatever Kyros might have left the world as. It's the lesser of two evils and at no point is it pointless. In fact it's the most meaningful change you can bring about in the game.
Isn't that how Kyros justifies her conquest? That her rule is inarguably better than the chaos the Tiers have been living under? That enforcing her peace is worth any means, even rampant murder and cruelty?
Based on that little topical blerb at the end I am quite sure we would agree on very little politically, but you are hands down my favorite video game reviewer on youtube. Make sure to do Homeworld 3 when it finally comes.
another well thought out well put together piece, thank you for putting this out there
The fact that this game has an elaborate Easter egg shout-out to the game Corruption of Champions will never be lost on me 😂
Damn that is the most awesome plot to a game I have ever heard.