What Only The Pros Know About The Diminished Scale
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- Опубліковано 29 січ 2017
- This episode of Everything Music is called "What The Pros Know About The Diminished Scale" We are probing even deeper into the chord families of the Diminished Scale and any of the previous episodes. This is for improvisors and composers looking to expand their harmonic concepts and knowledge.
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Thanks for all your great videos! I am an instructor at a Music College and you are definitely helping so many students (and teachers) with your videos. Bought the Beato book to support your awesome content!
Thank you so much! It is greatly appreciated :)
dude can I just say...you are the MAN! So knowledgeable and so giving...always appreciated sir!
Love the music you composed. You can take the most dissonant set of notes and chords and evoke some complex emotions.
I just finished a Suite for Soprano Sax and Orchestra built extensively around this tonality. It is so flexible and expressive as a palette for expression!
Cool video! Loved the ending!
I've learned more about harmony watching your videos than 4 years in music school!
I just found your videos - i love the way you explain things without being dry and academic, just makes me want to learn, thanks very much
Best channel on UA-cam? Quite possibly. Been binge watching these lately and going back and forth to the piano and guitar trying to keep up. Very grateful for the knowledge.
I'm an intermediate (sort of) level rock/blues 1970 's era guitarist. I probably have an above average knowledge of theory for a rock/blues guitarist, but my knowledge exceeds my application. Thank you for the advanced lesson! You are sort of a "rosetta stone" to many of us mere mortals!
Amazing video. After years finally learn about certain color obtained with X/X# and X/bX chords, and cycles of minor or major chords in minor thirds. Brazillian music has a lot of this. Thank YOU
Rick, you're a musical oracle. Bless you for the amazing effort to put all this great content on YT. I have learned so much from watching your vids. Thanks.
Hi Rick, I've just finished figuring out Barry Harris's system on diminished chord and scale before watching this and it's a real eye opener for me, the way we approach harmony through diminished scale helped tremendously in voicing and voice leading !
your particular style of presentation, breadth and variance in content, expressive demeanor, nuanced depth of knowledge, of congruity of informational flow, and overall vibe are some of the elements which contribute to your channel being one of the best i have yet seen on youtube. it's informative, intuitive, and pleasant in a comforting sort of way. i appreciate all of this very much.
Pat Martino had a related lesson, published in Guitar Player magazine sometime in 1977 or so (he was on the cover holding a Gibson L5-S), where he takes a diminished 7th chord on the fingerboard and lowers ANY note in the chord which produces a dominant 7th chord with the lowered note as the root. This means that from 1 diminished chord voicing you can "derive" 4 different dominant 7th chord voicings from it by lowering the notes one at a time. Since you can slide the diminished chord up 1 fret for 4 more dom. 7ths, and then do that again before coming to the same diminished 7th chord as the first one (in a different inversion), that means you can find all 12 chromatic dominant 7th chords, fairly easily remembered, within 3 frets, based off of any diminished chord shape you can think of.
This also makes it obvious why you would think of improvising by using the 8 note dominant scale (half-whole) from the root of a dom. 7th chord - because now it looks more like - in your mind's eye - looks like a diminished scale starting from 1 half-step higher than the dominant 7th chord. Great lesson Rick. Love your stuff.
Almost forgot this part - and practicing all of that (according to Mr. Martino!) - led him to just forgetting about playing the roots of the dom. 7th chords at all, and just using the full diminished 7th voicing to make the harmony a 7b9 sound built on the root of the dom. 7th chord that he wasn't playing. This part is more of a bebop improv thing, but the original lesson is great for any guitar player who wants to learn more dom. 7th voicings - for country, pop, rock, blues, etc.
Joe Diorio as well had a lesson like that, I think it's possible to find it on youtube somewhere
DUDE! Vulgar display of musical knowledge, oh my God! Very informative lesson with a pretty cool tune at the end to boot. Loving your videos, keep 'em coming.
Thank you Rick. You are making me grow as a musician.
Grateful. Thanks for this valuable information, Rick!
Another awesome informative lesson. .Well done Beato! You really demystify these very advanced theoretical musical concepts. And nice touch at the end with the practical (horror movie music) application. Thank you!
Thanks for your kindness sharing your knowledge to the world, I really appreciate it. I've learned a lot. Cheers from Chile.
wow this was really good and helpful. I was always so limited whenever a diminished chord came up in a chart but now I can finally expand upon the root position voicing and their inversions.
What beautiful dissonance you create with your voicings and changes played over the diminished chords.I generally used to use them as transition chords to bridge the space between chords in the scale but you have opened my ears with these suggestions.More stuff to practice.Keeps me young!Thank you so much.
Great advanced harmony vid on a fascinating topic!
Re YT music education: You are really raising the bar(tok)!
One of the best lessons i seen on UA-cam about diminished scales
Thanks for explaining this stuff, it is confusing as all get out and usually gives me a headache but you did a good job of not making my brain cramp up ..... too much!!
Thank you so much! The diminished scales have always been a bit fuzzy for me until now!
Mind blown. Thank you Rick!
Thanks Mr. Beato. Ending sent me on a bad trip flashback😎
Wow. Great piece!
Really appreciate these videos Rick
This reminds me of Scriabin's music in his last opuses :D
Thanks man really appreciate your knowledge, here in Scotland there's not much where I live in terms of theory teaching so your lessons are invaluable even my 3yr old daughter Maisie watches you, thank you.
Hey this was really helpful it would be great if you could do a series of videos explaining various scales like you did in this one. Like the melodic minor it would be great and help me and im sure other people get to the next level of theory knowledge. Thanks!
Best diminished lesson. Thanks Rick
Rick....Thank you ..for this.....the more I watch..the more I learn....ron castro
Beautiful piece at the end.
Excellent! Brilliant!
Hi Rick, thank you for this video. I've learned a lot.
But one thing I have to mention: At 5:35 you are showing us the fingering for the F diminished Scale.
This is an interesting fingering. It is way better to memorice than other fingerings which are normally used on it.
According to Mark Levine (Jazz-Piano-Book) the fingering is (on the F-family for the diminished scales) 123 12 123.
With the fingering from Mark Levine you have not to deal with a wide thumb-under span (thumb after the fourth finger).
When you start on d and continue with Eb and F, the run is way easier to play with 2, 3, 1 instead of 3, 4, 1.
Sidenote for everybody: You need only 3 types of fingerings for the diminished scales, because after 3 steps they are identical.
Fingerings according to Mark Levine:
C-Family (starting on C than continue with C# and so on):123 12 1234 (or last one: 1 if you want to continue)
F-Family (starting on F than continue with F# and so on): 123 12 1234 (or last one: 1 if you want to continue)
G-Family (starting on G than continue with G# and so on): 234 12 12 12
C and F have the same fingering and only the G-Family differs.
I mean that was just off da hook ... I have been watching for years, but this is another level
Wow. This is awesome.
Great lesson, just finished up several of the videos on the diminished scale and I feel armed to the teeth! Can't wait to go through F# and G!
GREAT... as always🌹
Thanks for this, it filled some gaps... I'm thinking in a jazz context to extend. my soloing and chord substitute theory. i hear players use these chords. it's great to unlock them. thanks again
fascinating. I love it.
Best theory channel on UA-cam hands down.
Killin it bro!!!
I spent hours with jazz books trying to figure out how to voice diminished chords on piano, learnt the scales and kind of just gave up at a certain point because it just seemed too complicated. Rick, you are a real code breaker! There are so many possibilities here and although there is a lot to study in your diagram, it all suddenly makes sense. Thanks so much! (P.S. I bought your Beato Book because I am trying to get some of this theory which makes sense to me on piano to carry over to guitar on which I am so much less competent ... any tips on how to learn these scales and voicings on guitar? )
Thank you sir, very informative! I have subscribed. :D
Heavy, man🎶😎. Good show, but the kids are hungry... even the ol peeps 🥴
Your music theory vids are a great way to fall asleep.
If you want nightmares.
:D
Not complaining.
Super informative, super dark, and I need the sleep! Ha!
Great video!...I guess there isn't a flat 13th Street...could be a side road or alleyway...lol
this is gold!
This should be called the horror movie scale lol. Ive been living in aeolean for so long this is scary.
For fun look up the Greek tribes Dorian were warlords. 😮
one of the things that lead me to your channel was finding the youtube footage of barry harris explaining his diminished 6 method
Outrageously wonderful ending!
^..^~~
Very cool. I would love to hear what you have to say about the Messiaen tri tone (or 3rd mode) as loved by Allan Holdsworth. Lots of symmetrical gems in that. Also the augmented scale.
Bro, if I ever put my nightmares to paper, you're hired! These are great for suspense horror type shows.
when you just dont want to resolve
Wow, your original composition was awesome! (Way beyond my scope theory-wise, but nonetheless an interesting lesson.)
thanks,nice videos
In 2018 Rick Beato is a real rock star.
That scale has such a nightly feel. Just a bit of moonlight to cast shadows. The moonless night would be double harmonic major...
Rick Thanks SOoooo OO much
what a guy! a really cool way to solo over these chords is play plain major and minor triads that start on the chord tones. it is a little sneakier and less telegraphed. every note in these triads will be diatonic to the chord scale. you can do a lot just picking two chord tones and playing major & minor triads for each especially when you add passing tones.
blue out those chord tones
keith ruddell I kinda got what your talking about.. and I do like things that make it easier but are are also built on the basics. so if I'm soloing over let's say fdim. , single notes for other readers are f ab cb ebb.. so (f ab b d)... so you say solo over the major diatonic chords. so I think you mean the notes of chords f Maj 7 , aflat Maj 7, b Maj 7 and Maj 7. so if I understand it right I could play just the f Maj 7 arpeggion and build from there. also I'm thinking a f 6 arpegio. I usually play single notes in descending order fdca.. if you possibly can, send a step by step break down of left and right hand. thanks don't have a piano at home. I plan to make a video on this soon.. Me beat has challenged me . I like the whole half half whole way to analyze the chords and scales there is a lot here.. I learned at sixteen hand over hand arpeggio ( all single notes) df ab b d then a c 6 arpegio, single notes egac , also hand over hand.
eaverdeja That's a good idea. it could be done with circles also..
Similarly, you can take any note in the chord and build a dominant chord a half step lower: F°-> E7♭9 for example. The reverse process is how I arrive at a lot of my diminished chords in the first place: raising the root of a dominant 7th by a half step.
Funny how this video came up on the exact day I was wondering about this E/F chord in Joseph Martin’s The Awakening.
The wonders of the tritone and what scales it fits into
nice one!
Love to hear your thoughts on Keith Emerson.
So its an F dim 7th chord with extensions taken from the G dim 7th chord? Does that make this a polychordal idea? And will it work the same over G dim 7th as F dim 7th since all the G dim chord tones are in the F dim scale?
Very interesting scale, sounds very ominous in the low register.
4:28-4:30 is how I felt thru this whole video
super cool ending!
You should check out the Fourth Symphony by Franz Schmidt (1874-1939). The best recording is by Zubin Mehta and the Vienna Philharmonic, and there's a piano-solo reduction (by Karl Frotzler) that's available for free download on IMSLP.
Although it seems to be written in a kind of late Romantic, post-Mahler/Bruckner idiom, the harmony is very sophisticated (and the orchestration is superb). Apart from quartal harmony, this symphony is absolutely full of diminished and augmented harmony (although the work plays continuously, it's divided into four movements), especially the slow movement and the scherzo that follows it. (The key relationships within the scherzo array rising diminished-seventh axes around the nodes of a falling augmented-triad axis, thus passing through all twelve keys!)
i really need to spend a bit of time with this one.. i wonder how well it translates to guitar tho.. some pretty tricky voicings i bet.. might have to try it on the keys first.. i love the track and video at the end.. dripping with mood 😉
shanecgriffo I play guitar also it's frustrating to do voicings on guitar that piann does in fact it's impossible. a piano has about 6 octaves. . however, a note on a guitar on two separate strings sound the same. This allows guitar players to play chords that sound just a little different but have exactly the same names.. Also since the guitar is a verticle layout we can change the sound completely by just one note.. So life as well as music is full of compromises.
A lot of harmonic tension in these diminished scales. The diminished 7th was a popular tension creating harmony in the Romantic period but composers almost always resolved it to a major key.
Tell me I’m lacking in music theory without telling me I’m lacking in music theory.
This is pretty much ALL of Rick’s videos to me. I used to think I was pretty decent in the theory department. 🥴
Rick, love your videos; but there always seems to be one caveat unspoken in every lesson, and here it is for this one: yes, there are "only" three scales to learn; but one must practice those three scales beginning from everywhere over the range of one's horn/axe.
Plus, I would personally recommend one practice these scales/chords/arpeggios over both singular and multiple octaves.
But again, great stuff, Rick.
Hi I love your videos on modern harmony. Material on these topics is super hard to find in harmony books. Hopefully you can inspire the whole "epic" movement people to stop relying on constantly with repeated ostinatos, repeated held simple triads, and big drum beats. I think that sound has worn itself out and everything is starting to sound nearly 80 percent the same. Anyway thanks for all this as I am self taught and have fallen in love with music that goes beyond the triad as of late. For some reason I have become bored with simplistic harmony. Just a quick comment and I may be wrong but I believe at 8:53ish you accidently call the chord Bb minor 7 and I believe you are playing a Bb half diminished seventh as I hear the E in the voicing and not the F. Thanks again for your super insightful videos!
What's your take on tuning drums to songs? It seems like the tuning you choose can significantly effect how one perceives the song/drums consciously and unconsciously. Also, I don't have access to an acoustic drumset, but I've noticed that alot of drums seem to have several fundamentals, what's the deal with that?
Continuation: a functional approach would be to use the different dominant chords as a way to modulate to 3 other key-centers like G7 leads to C but the scale also contains (enharmonic equivalent) Bb7, Db7 and E7. Can seem trivial, but is pretty powerful and should not be overlooked!
I'd like to hear how these chords are used in a composition where the diminished chord is conspicuously written in, such as My Romance, Meditation, Till there was You, etc.
Great vid! What about the phrygian triads (1 b2 5) and the Dom7thb5 chords (1 3 b5 b7) in the scale?
+americantango I haven't begun to talk about all the possibilities yet. That was only my third diminished video. If I put everything in these they'd be an hour and a half long.
Wow!
Great lesson! Mind if I use the composition at the end to scare the living hell out of my neighborhood kids this Halloween? Pennywise has nothing on a blitzkrieg of diminished chords and scales.
hey rick, I took a freshman theory class at my high school and I'm trying to learn more theory on my own. any chance I could get a good theory book recommendation that doesn't read like a textbook?
Robert Williamson for jazz theory the jazz language is a great book.
We don't deserve you. This is just too good.
You do dissonance so well
I love the piece at the end....
Ey Rick and youtube friends,
i've got a (Guitar) question and maybe you, or the pro himself can help me.
I'm voice leading / comping over stella and i hit a chord that i can't wrap my head around. it sounds like a dim chord, maybe i'm just playing a very (wrong) strange chord. But then, it sounds super awesome.
Let me lay down the context I'm talking about the 4th bar to the 8 bar. so Fm7, Bb7, Ebmaj7, to Ab7. On the Ab7 i hit X,,10,11,11,11,X . so G#/G or GmMaj7b5.
the notes functions over Ab7 are
G=7th
C#=11th
F#= b7th
Bb=9th
the whole voice leading from Fm7, Bb7, Ebmaj7, to Ab7 is as following.
Fm9 = X,8,10,8,8,X 1,5,b7,9
Bb7alt (#5, b5) = X,9,10,9,9,X #5,9,b5,b7
Ebmaj6 #11 =X,10,10,10,10,X
Ab7 X,,10,11,11,11,X . so G#/G or GmMaj7b5. i can play ''A'' half whole dim over this , that sounds correct. but then i'm missing the Ab, the root of the spelled chord.
I could write a lot more ''guessing'' but maybe, somebody just knows.
And Rick, if you read this, i know it's sounds dull but i ''Also'' like you lessons a lot. You're an very inspiring person and i loved the story about '' not getting into the conservatory''. Trough passion and dedication you are, where you are now. Not only a damn good music teacher but also a motivational speaker.
Greetings from the Netherlands,
Rob
The chord you're talking about is an Ab7#11 chord, wich is a common substitution for the IVm chord as an interchange of the normal IV chord. (Stella by Starlight's key is Bb) Basically this means that the normal IV chord (in this case Ebmaj7) gets replaced with the IVm chord (in this case Ebm, often voiced as an Ebm6 chord). The scale you can use to solo over this chord is it's own melodic minor scale: Ebminor melodic.
A common thing to do, is to view this Ebm6 chord (Eb - Gb - Gb - C) as the upperstructure of an Ab7 chord, or as the Ab7 without it's own root (Ab). So with the added root the notes would be Ab - C - Eb - Gb - Bb.
Since we take this Ebm chord from the IV melodic minor scale, the 7th note is raised to the natural 7th of the scale, In this case: D, the 7th note of the Eb minor melodic scale. This explaines, besides the nice voice-leading of the stationary D from Ab7 -> Bb, the reason why this Ab7 is often voiced as an Ab7#11 chord.
Long story short: the best scale to solo over this chord would be the minor melodic scale of the IVm chord. In the case of Stella by Starlight that would be Eb minor melodic. The 4th mode of this scale is the lydian#11 mode. Wich in this case would be the Ab mixolydian#11 mode. This is the mode you can use to solo over this (Ab7#11) chord, and as you will see, in almost every bVII7#11 chords in the real books.
I don’t disagree with anything said here however, the calling of Ebb D, or Cb B completely removes the thirds naming convention and adds confusion to an otherwise perfect naming system. The chords of any Eb chord will have the letters E G B D F A C in it, regardless of accidentals. The enharmonic names (or notes) exist to keep that convention. This isn’t an attempt at decent so don’t swing at me too hard. When explaining harmony to a student, if they grasp the thirds letter naming convention as is, it’s only a matter of which direction and interval distance #/b treatment. The letter names can be relied upon. A blank stare from a student whose looking for the right letter name on top of how to treat it is helped by the convention. Just sayin. Great video, as always Rick. And the Apple Sucks video, awesome. I love/hate Apple also.
Keith Shapiro in what way would describing a note as Ebb make it easier to identify a g minor triad within the scale? Diminished scales have multiple roots, and therefore can and must be identified with different naming conventions relative to the root. No?
is there alot of bollywood hindi music from those type of scale ? if not maybe make a video on it ? very cool stuff !! :D THANKS
Great demo. One point: at 11:05, the chord in the right hand is gm7, not gm7b5.
I'm curious why you included "lydian dominant 7ths", yet left out the "dominant b5" chords
The characteristic note of lydian is that it has a #11 which is another way to describe a b5 or #4, so i think what you're doing is naming the same thing two different ways, and he just stuck with one way to describe the same thing.
Madman in the clouds
WOW!
the G flat diminished and G diminished scale Rick asks to learn in the end, are they also whole step / half step scales or the other way round? as in half step / whole step? anyone..
i just looked at some images of the diminished scales and i cant believe i missed this. go up three tones and chord the diminished 7.. in c it would be e g bb db. Now i used the the right hand to make the chord. Now the other notes are the notes of the whole half diminished scale... i so i thought about it and thought four inversions of the diminished chord t and three separate families . 3 x 4 is 12. take the four that are not used you have a eight note scale and that has to be the scale left. I m sure the dominant diminished scale has a similar situation..
Hey what am I doing wrong?: Everything checks out except for the "straight lydian" chords, AKA all of the relevant M7b5 chords identified in this example of F W-1/2 or E (or G) 1/2-W. For example, the M7 note for E lydian, or EM7b5, is the note "eb/d#", which is not a note found in this example for a diminished scale...
Without watching the video or the comment section i'd say, the diminished scale doesn't only harmonized with stack of minor third giving only diminished chord but also taking in consideration the 2nd we can have for the same degree major and minor chord etc etc right?
Fleg just watch it
so...basically if you're playing in Lydian you can easily use a diminished scale as a chord scale and even borrow chords from it resolving to a diatonic chord, right?
Phew...I was I was as knowledgeable about ANYTHING as Mr Beato is about this stuff...I don't even know my own genitals as intimately as Rick knows his music theory