Yes, he did it right in the clip: rope coming from the wall through the carabiner. But he failed to point out, why this is so important. He should have shown how the rope opens the carabiner in case of a fall when coming from the outside. Also there is one other safety related thing I miss: I see lots of climbers doing this mistake and did it myself in the past: once in a difficult wall the climber reachs up from his position and clips into the hook as soon as he can reach it. But than the rope runs twice: from his belt up to the hook and then down. If he falls at the moment of clipping, which is pretty likely, because you have to pull the rope up and second you are holding yourself only with one hand, you take a deep fall because of the slack in the rope: around more than a meter longer than necessary. So if you do this at your second hook, which is often in a height of 6 meters, you will drop to the ground. So its better to climb, until your hip is at the same level as the hook and clip then. And there is another hazard uncovered. It recently killed a young climber: You have to make sure, that the ropeside carabiner is directly clipped into the 10 centimeter long textile piece between the two carabiners. There were accidents, in which the ropeside carabiner was clipped into the rubber thing and the rubber thing was attached to the textile strip. At the first fall the rubber thing ripped and the climber fell with the unattached ropeside carabiner to his death. Also he fails to give the reason why you always should use the same carabiner for the rope: the wall side carabiner gets scratched by the hook. Afterwards this side has sharp edges that could cut the rope. Since in climbing everything is about safety, and in teaching everything is about understanding the reason for something, I would say this is at best a mediocre video.
Back when I started climbing (1978+++) and particularly when I started trying to send new harder routes which needed multiple tries, I would note exactly which nut or cam should be used in each spot where I could put in protection, and which hand would be available to do the clip. I would then hang them on the corresponding side of my harness, starting with the last and ending with the first protection on top. I would also clip the other biner into the rope, so that when I reached a spot where I would protect the climb, I could just grab the topmost piece, place it correctly into the crack and then I would be good to go. The same idea also works for bolt placements of course, and it makes it possible to climb pure bolt routes with almost the same effort as when all the quickdraws have been pre-placed. (Except for those hard-to-reach bolts where the bottom biner is much easier to clip into. :-( )
Thanks for the tips. The clipping method with the gate facing the opposite direction of your free hand is the easiest way to clip. However, I don't like clipping the rope demonstrated for the gate facing the same way as the free hand. I find that it's almost like clipping your finger into the carabiner. I used a method that's prevents that. I call it the tripod method. With rope coming between the first and middle finger like a cigarette, control the carabiner with the thumb on the spine and the first and middle finger touching the ends of the gate, rotate a little and the weight of the rope slides into the biner quite easily. The rope can only enter the biner. It's also a good way to flip the rope between the pencil and the cigarette. I recommend also practicing with your back facing the carabiner as well (8 in all), because you never know when you might need that move as well.
That is the way it should be done. Positive side effect: the second climber gets a hint wether to keep on climbing to the right or left side of the QD.
I find it easier to explain that the QD's spine should face the direction of travel, instead of having to think of opposites ("gate away from direction of travel") which can confuse you in the moment.
I need a video a that explains what keeps the rope from just slipping through the quick draws. I also am puzzled on how you retrieve the carabineers and quick draws.
6 років тому+66
I couldn't really see what was happening while he was clipping, it was hidden by his hand.
Normally you can determine the carabiner for the rope by the wire gate. Your quidraw has one on both sides, but it's most important at the rope, because it can swing around and a heavy gate could get opened by knocking against the wall.
For those who make draws with opposing carabiner direction it is worth noting that it is important to have the spine of the carabiner in the bolt face the direction of travel. this avoids the nose of the carabiner being pulled up and potentially hooking on the hanger or bolt and causing triaxial loading and potential failure of the carabiner. Another rare occurrence, but one I've witnessed.
This is so interesting. I've talked with so many climbers and there are two camps: Camp 1 will do as in the video, thinking about ensuring the rope travels across the spine of the biner, whereas camp 2 will say that what is important is how you clip the QD into the bolt! If you clip the QD the wrong way it can undo itself from the bolt. Hence, the only way to make both sides happy is to have QDs with opposing biners. IDK, I've taken a lot of falls, and so far so good.
I see how a rope could undo itself from the carabiner if this is facing the wrong direction, but I can't envision how a quickdraw could undo itself from a bolt...
To make this clear, I have never had issues and I'm in camp 1. However, if you clip your QD in the bolt such that the gate of the QD presses against the bolt, it is possible that the QD might unclipp given enough rope drag. You will pull the QD towards yourself (pulling the rope) and this will twist the biner and ultimately unclip it. I have NEVER had this happen to me, but a quick search resulted in this: www.mountainproject.com/photo/107624141/first-time-a-quickdraw-has-ever-come-undone-and-on-the-first-bolt-of-the-travers, so it does seem to happen.
Erik Thorsell I don’t see this happening either. Don’t think the QuickDraw would unclip from the bolt. The link doesn’t actually say that he unclipped from the bolt. Just that he was at the first bolt and the rope came unclipped.
I don't see how you could reach any other conclusion but the aforementioned one. Clearly, the QD has undone itself as he started traversing? Well well, I'll see if I can find a bolt and recreate.
Unclipping quickdraw from a bolt was an accident in frankenjura a couple of years ago. It happens usually with stuck carabiners which flip over. (ua-cam.com/video/9oke_4xJTtM/v-deo.html). There is a paper floating around from the german DAV about this topic. This depends on placement of the quickdraw, traveling direction and size of bolt. It is much more uncommon than back of spine. BUT i think some should keep in mind, that this tends to happen now and then and should be in the back of the head, unclipping could happen in rare cases.
Here in Australia we tend to turn the top crab 180 degrees once it is clipped through the bolt, so the gate is not against the wall. That's why the top loop of the quickdraw is wider.
No it’s not. The top loop is bigger to allow for the dogbone to pivot so the draw can move with the rope in off angles without creating excessive drag and/or cross loading. Flipping bieners is great for lockers (so that the screw gate screws down in the direction of gravity) e.g. when building anchors, but IMHO nothing but a waste of energy to do on a draw.
When I do actually get on lead climbs I prefer to belay with either the GriGri 2 if someone is working the route or the Cinch if they are going for the top as I can feed out faster and smoother using the Cinch. I have tried the Click-up but found that it locked up too much unless you stay well ahead of the climber. With regards to clipping, it would be great if you could do a video with Adam Ondra as he clips differently from the method shown. And hey, he climbs pretty hard :D
The cinch is my go-to sport crag assisted braking is very smooth and have frequently seen very poor practice with Gri Gri's. Cinch is hard with lowering and Click Up is awful and I regret buying it.
Just at first sight, the click-up looks like it makes "throwing the glitter" (giving slack) easier, and more reliable on the catch. I'm definitely going to try one!
Hey just wanted to mention you should provide a link to the 'pick of the week' in the description! 😄 Great vid i dont sport climb yet but this was interesting
Is there any reason you wouldn’t clip the quick draw into the rope first and than the bolt? I’m a beginner climber trying to do some research, and have been thinking about this. I figure there must be a reason people do not do this as it seems like a very convenient technique otherwise.
You, Jonathan, forgot the four most important points or at least forgot to explain them: they are all security related and should have priority to other topics in my opinion: 1. You didnt explained WHY "backclipping" (rope coming from the body side into the carabiner and leaving at the mountainside) is so dangerous: carabiner opens because of creating a sling with the rope. 2.You didnt explained that you should clip at hip level and that you should not reach out upwards to clip. (falling double as deep due to rope going double at the moment of clipping as well.) 3. You mentioned the rubber band at the lower carabiner that should prevent the carabiner from moving. You didnt mentioned that there was recently a deadly accident in which an experienced competition climber died, because he prepared the exe before climbing in a way, that the carabiner got attached to the exe by the rubber band ONLY. (Only possible with a certain type of carabiner/rubber band). 4. In addition you didnt explained WHY a certain carabiner should be always on top. (sharp edges in upper carabiner could cut the rope and not moving, rubber secured carabiner, should be the lower one, because the upper carabiner should be loose, to prevent it from hanging square in the hook.) You forgot to mention, that most carabiners have a curved moving part in the lower carabiner to separate both sides of the exe visually from each other and also to make case 1 less likely.
Yes, and you are completely right about everything. I think this Video wasn't intended as a complete instruction for new climbers, just a few "tips" from the Pro. Also, the carabiner of the bolt side, doesn't have a key-lock construction, so it has a "nose". This nose can get cought in the hanger of the bolt, adding a lever arm. In the event of a fall, the carabiner is not just affected by a few kN of force, also an additional moment of force because of the lever arm. The result is, that carabiners breaks at the curve, where the lever arm is the longest and the moment of force is the highest. It happend a few times already. One time by just "sitting in the rope" extremely short above the last quickdraw (4.) resulting the climber hitting the ground from 9-10m height. --> wheelchair. Also this noses are just annoying! Snagging everywhere and when cleaning the sport route, snags miserably when unclipping the rope, if the route doesn't go straight up. So, annoying and dangerous!
Adam Kuczyński I’m a right hander and still prefer my click-up over the GriGri. They’re both great belay devices but I feel like the click-up is just more intuitive and less clunky. 🤷♂️
you shuld alway clip the qd from bottom of bol or else it can unclip from the bolt with ropedrag and fall. always clip like he does 5.18 in (ua-cam.com/video/D_iYABs7iFM/v-deo.htmlm80s)!!
Yes, he did it right in the clip: rope coming from the wall through the carabiner. But he failed to point out, why this is so important. He should have shown how the rope opens the carabiner in case of a fall when coming from the outside.
Also there is one other safety related thing I miss: I see lots of climbers doing this mistake and did it myself in the past: once in a difficult wall the climber reachs up from his position and clips into the hook as soon as he can reach it. But than the rope runs twice: from his belt up to the hook and then down. If he falls at the moment of clipping, which is pretty likely, because you have to pull the rope up and second you are holding yourself only with one hand, you take a deep fall because of the slack in the rope: around more than a meter longer than necessary. So if you do this at your second hook, which is often in a height of 6 meters, you will drop to the ground. So its better to climb, until your hip is at the same level as the hook and clip then.
And there is another hazard uncovered. It recently killed a young climber: You have to make sure, that the ropeside carabiner is directly clipped into the 10 centimeter long textile piece between the two carabiners. There were accidents, in which the ropeside carabiner was clipped into the rubber thing and the rubber thing was attached to the textile strip. At the first fall the rubber thing ripped and the climber fell with the unattached ropeside carabiner to his death.
Also he fails to give the reason why you always should use the same carabiner for the rope: the wall side carabiner gets scratched by the hook. Afterwards this side has sharp edges that could cut the rope.
Since in climbing everything is about safety, and in teaching everything is about understanding the reason for something, I would say this is at best a mediocre video.
Back when I started climbing (1978+++) and particularly when I started trying to send new harder routes which needed multiple tries, I would note exactly which nut or cam should be used in each spot where I could put in protection, and which hand would be available to do the clip.
I would then hang them on the corresponding side of my harness, starting with the last and ending with the first protection on top. I would also clip the other biner into the rope, so that when I reached a spot where I would protect the climb, I could just grab the topmost piece, place it correctly into the crack and then I would be good to go.
The same idea also works for bolt placements of course, and it makes it possible to climb pure bolt routes with almost the same effort as when all the quickdraws have been pre-placed. (Except for those hard-to-reach bolts where the bottom biner is much easier to clip into. :-( )
Good idea
Thanks for the tips. The clipping method with the gate facing the opposite direction of your free hand is the easiest way to clip. However, I don't like clipping the rope demonstrated for the gate facing the same way as the free hand. I find that it's almost like clipping your finger into the carabiner. I used a method that's prevents that. I call it the tripod method. With rope coming between the first and middle finger like a cigarette, control the carabiner with the thumb on the spine and the first and middle finger touching the ends of the gate, rotate a little and the weight of the rope slides into the biner quite easily. The rope can only enter the biner. It's also a good way to flip the rope between the pencil and the cigarette. I recommend also practicing with your back facing the carabiner as well (8 in all), because you never know when you might need that move as well.
That is the way it should be done.
Positive side effect: the second climber gets a hint wether to keep on climbing to the right or left side of the QD.
I find it easier to explain that the QD's spine should face the direction of travel, instead of having to think of opposites ("gate away from direction of travel") which can confuse you in the moment.
I think it is easier to remember and visualise possibility of fall because of opened qd.
Thanks for the easy to understand demonstration. Very helpful.
I need a video a that explains what keeps the rope from just slipping through the quick draws. I also am puzzled on how you retrieve the carabineers and quick draws.
I couldn't really see what was happening while he was clipping, it was hidden by his hand.
Every single clipping tutorial do the same, I still havn't find one that shows what's actually happening
Try this one ua-cam.com/video/W-FNpWLeeek/v-deo.html
Thanks guys. Great advice !
Normally you can determine the carabiner for the rope by the wire gate. Your quidraw has one on both sides, but it's most important at the rope, because it can swing around and a heavy gate could get opened by knocking against the wall.
5:40 Not only does it make sure the rope runs along the spine but also makes sure the gate isn't rubbing near the rock!
For those who make draws with opposing carabiner direction it is worth noting that it is important to have the spine of the carabiner in the bolt face the direction of travel. this avoids the nose of the carabiner being pulled up and potentially hooking on the hanger or bolt and causing triaxial loading and potential failure of the carabiner. Another rare occurrence, but one I've witnessed.
This is so interesting. I've talked with so many climbers and there are two camps: Camp 1 will do as in the video, thinking about ensuring the rope travels across the spine of the biner, whereas camp 2 will say that what is important is how you clip the QD into the bolt! If you clip the QD the wrong way it can undo itself from the bolt. Hence, the only way to make both sides happy is to have QDs with opposing biners.
IDK, I've taken a lot of falls, and so far so good.
I see how a rope could undo itself from the carabiner if this is facing the wrong direction, but I can't envision how a quickdraw could undo itself from a bolt...
To make this clear, I have never had issues and I'm in camp 1. However, if you clip your QD in the bolt such that the gate of the QD presses against the bolt, it is possible that the QD might unclipp given enough rope drag. You will pull the QD towards yourself (pulling the rope) and this will twist the biner and ultimately unclip it. I have NEVER had this happen to me, but a quick search resulted in this: www.mountainproject.com/photo/107624141/first-time-a-quickdraw-has-ever-come-undone-and-on-the-first-bolt-of-the-travers, so it does seem to happen.
Erik Thorsell I don’t see this happening either. Don’t think the QuickDraw would unclip from the bolt. The link doesn’t actually say that he unclipped from the bolt. Just that he was at the first bolt and the rope came unclipped.
I don't see how you could reach any other conclusion but the aforementioned one. Clearly, the QD has undone itself as he started traversing? Well well, I'll see if I can find a bolt and recreate.
Unclipping quickdraw from a bolt was an accident in frankenjura a couple of years ago. It happens usually with stuck carabiners which flip over. (ua-cam.com/video/9oke_4xJTtM/v-deo.html). There is a paper floating around from the german DAV about this topic. This depends on placement of the quickdraw, traveling direction and size of bolt. It is much more uncommon than back of spine.
BUT i think some should keep in mind, that this tends to happen now and then and should be in the back of the head, unclipping could happen in rare cases.
Here in Australia we tend to turn the top crab 180 degrees once it is clipped through the bolt, so the gate is not against the wall. That's why the top loop of the quickdraw is wider.
No it’s not. The top loop is bigger to allow for the dogbone to pivot so the draw can move with the rope in off angles without creating excessive drag and/or cross loading. Flipping bieners is great for lockers (so that the screw gate screws down in the direction of gravity) e.g. when building anchors, but IMHO nothing but a waste of energy to do on a draw.
When I do actually get on lead climbs I prefer to belay with either the GriGri 2 if someone is working the route or the Cinch if they are going for the top as I can feed out faster and smoother using the Cinch. I have tried the Click-up but found that it locked up too much unless you stay well ahead of the climber.
With regards to clipping, it would be great if you could do a video with Adam Ondra as he clips differently from the method shown. And hey, he climbs pretty hard :D
The cinch is my go-to sport crag assisted braking is very smooth and have frequently seen very poor practice with Gri Gri's. Cinch is hard with lowering and Click Up is awful and I regret buying it.
Very helpful! Thank you so much Jono!
Just at first sight, the click-up looks like it makes "throwing the glitter" (giving slack) easier, and more reliable on the catch. I'm definitely going to try one!
A very good and informative video. Two thumbs up.
Hey just wanted to mention you should provide a link to the 'pick of the week' in the description! 😄 Great vid i dont sport climb yet but this was interesting
thanks for the heads up all, done, its here if you need it goo.gl/CVeEqY
:)
Is there any reason you wouldn’t clip the quick draw into the rope first and than the bolt? I’m a beginner climber trying to do some research, and have been thinking about this. I figure there must be a reason people do not do this as it seems like a very convenient technique otherwise.
Well if the quickdraw can slip from your hand.
Did you say this was filmed in Tirana?
No, Siurana, Spain
great video! is all about the details
You need to make a video to address the issue of "How To Clip When Sport Climbing With Folks Other Than Jonathan Siegrist".
thumb technique is the best
You, Jonathan, forgot the four most important points or at least forgot to explain them: they are all security related and should have priority to other topics in my opinion:
1. You didnt explained WHY "backclipping" (rope coming from the body side into the carabiner and leaving at the mountainside) is so dangerous: carabiner opens because of creating a sling with the rope.
2.You didnt explained that you should clip at hip level and that you should not reach out upwards to clip. (falling double as deep due to rope going double at the moment of clipping as well.)
3. You mentioned the rubber band at the lower carabiner that should prevent the carabiner from moving. You didnt mentioned that there was recently a deadly accident in which an experienced competition climber died, because he prepared the exe before climbing in a way, that the carabiner got attached to the exe by the rubber band ONLY. (Only possible with a certain type of carabiner/rubber band).
4. In addition you didnt explained WHY a certain carabiner should be always on top. (sharp edges in upper carabiner could cut the rope and not moving, rubber secured carabiner, should be the lower one, because the upper carabiner should be loose, to prevent it from hanging square in the hook.) You forgot to mention, that most carabiners have a curved moving part in the lower carabiner to separate both sides of the exe visually from each other and also to make case 1 less likely.
Yes, and you are completely right about everything. I think this Video wasn't intended as a complete instruction for new climbers, just a few "tips" from the Pro.
Also, the carabiner of the bolt side, doesn't have a key-lock construction, so it has a "nose".
This nose can get cought in the hanger of the bolt, adding a lever arm. In the event of a fall, the carabiner is not just affected by a few kN of force, also an additional moment of force because of the lever arm.
The result is, that carabiners breaks at the curve, where the lever arm is the longest and the moment of force is the highest. It happend a few times already. One time by just "sitting in the rope" extremely short above the last quickdraw (4.) resulting the climber hitting the ground from 9-10m height. --> wheelchair.
Also this noses are just annoying! Snagging everywhere and when cleaning the sport route, snags miserably when unclipping the rope, if the route doesn't go straight up.
So, annoying and dangerous!
You can absolutely clip above your hip dog, it depends on the scenario 😂
I would hate climbing with you...
Can anyone ID the approach shoes he is wearing in this?
Everything is a gri-gri beater if you're left handed.
Adam Kuczyński I’m a right hander and still prefer my click-up over the GriGri. They’re both great belay devices but I feel like the click-up is just more intuitive and less clunky. 🤷♂️
_Liking the simplicity of the "Click-Up"_
The sound balance is all over the place on this vid
Maybe a grigri beater but not the GRiGRi + 😉
Every pro climbers I see have the figure-8 bad dressed, unbelievable
you shuld alway clip the qd from bottom of bol or else it can unclip from the bolt with ropedrag and fall. always clip like he does 5.18 in (ua-cam.com/video/D_iYABs7iFM/v-deo.htmlm80s)!!
First! :) Awesome video BTW!
Thanks! Great to hear!
the click up looks dangerous
Trading hairs for views?
Practicing climbing at a stop light?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 chill