Really like your positive take on a film I respect but didn’t thrill me. “Wait until these projects actually come out before you judge them” is one good takeaway from all the recent MCU discourse.
This is another example of why, even if don’t always agree with you, I really like your videos. People who complain that this movies are not faithful seems to forget what came before.
“Not faultless, not my favorite, but it’s own little masterpiece” sums up my thoughts on the film as well. Really this whole video is the vibe, I feel.
I feel another one of the reasons why people seem so...lukewarm towards Multiverse of Madness is due to how the nature of how the average fan learns about information regarding a particular work has changed. Soudns weird, but hear me out. Maybe it's my neck of the woods, but most of people's opinion regarding their animosity over the film seems to be more on the "what could have been" versus "What we got". In today's age it has become much easier to learn about the production of movies, specially Marvel given they seem to be extremely leak-heavy as of late. As such, it seems that now fans have the knowledge of exactly what was changed during re-shoots to a way too uncomfortable level. The fact people know exactly which cameos and which parts of the story were less of a Raimi choice and more of a Disney mandate thing seems to be rubbing off people the wrong way. And I can understand (to a degree, mind you) how this fuels the fear of misrepresentation; How can you trust a character you like or you're taking as your introduction being represented in a way you seem satisfying when you come with the already precognition that is was NOT the director's original intent but rather another order from higher ranks for the sole purpose of synergy? It's not like people haven't experienced that burn before: We saw this with Sam Raimi himself some time ago with Spiderman 3 where he was pushed to use a character that he never felt the appeal to above his more fondly remembered classic era of villains and with the likes of the Star Wars newer trilogy we have seen some of the downsides when Disney micro-managing habits can end up dulling a product a bit too much. As such, when people end up reading on the fact Sam didn't even know who America was before re-shoots it somewhat muddles the perspective of what they are about to see. HOWEVER, one must always remember that every movie production is a collaborative effort. And a well-seasoned director always knows that sometimes you can't have exactly 100% of the control specially on big budgets creations like this one. As such, one can't simply assume that just because he didn't want things like America and the Illuminati at first automatically means this is a production that he feels no pride in creating. Thoughts change, perspectives shift through development; things change. I don't think Sam Raimi'd have really stuck by long enough if the ENTIRE movie had been a production that he wasn't fully comfortable in doing so, so we can't simply dwell on the "what could have been" and we need to see the "What we got" from what it's presented on the screen rather than JUST it's long production history.
Excellent points. I have very in depth thoughts and feelings about this, mostly about how the louder the discourse gets the less it seems people seem to show that they understand how *anything* is made, but this covers a section of that nicely.
@@BMask Indeed. Funny enough, this entire line of thought and my more understanding view of the movie is all thanks to you, B-Mask. It's probably still there in an older comment in the F4 vid, bit to recap: I used to feel in a somewhat similar way towards the Secret Wars because I kept seeing it in a cynical way: All I could see of the product back then was another elaborate excuse by Marvel with the sole purpose of finding a way to write off The Fantastic Four off the books in order to fit the MCU synergy machine. But it was YOUR video about the Fantastic Four that made me realize that, once I actually saw the content of the book for what it was, was actually a great use and sendoff to what had been previously writer and set off of the family's development. In today's age its SO difficult to shake off those cynical vibes, specially with corporations becoming bigger and hungrier with each passing minute, so it's nice to sometimes appreciate a work for what it's trying to display rather than just get caught of the menutia of the people who made it.
I’m just going to chip in to say that I knew nothing about the movie prior to going in, and I was really disappointed. I don’t love Raimi, and I think most people who were excited for his take on this watched the Spider-Man 1-3 films he did ages ago, and kind of forgot how much Raimi loves classic 70s cheese. I went in knowing that, and the movie seemed mostly absent of the stuff he does well. Some fun set pieces near the end aside, the movie felt like it lacked from the more horror direction. Dissolving Wanda down into ‘give me my babies’ just sucked. It’s motivation that would have fit a stage 1 villain, not a fully fleshed our character who’s been around for a decade. I didn’t think Wanda Vision was some masterpiece of understanding grief, but I came out of it thinking ‘well at least she changed and learned so I don’t need to watch that again’. Idk, but criticism about the MCU will mostly fall on deaf ears while it’s still making money
@@cameronjohnson4936 I don't think that's true at all. The MCU makes extremely calculated decisions based on audience reactions, which they inevitably turn around and complain about. Why did we go from a Kraven the Hunter film to a spider verse picture? Because twitter incessantly demanded it while poking at the new movies in the least charitable way imaginable. Why did Sam Raimi get called back to work with Feige? Because he'd seen the thousands of tweets and videos suddenly elevating Raimi to god-like status because he made those spider man movies and demanding his return. And where are those accounts now? *silent.* The MCU is always adapting to criticism. Unfortunately the criticism has become horribly unwieldy. I think they're handling it well and I think those films, because they're calculated, will hold up in the end for the qualities people were supposed to have picked up on the first time around, but honestly, I think they were doing just fine when they weren't listening to the noise.
@@BMask Yeah, fair enough. Its a hell of a balancing act, making good movies while dealing with more than a decade of cannon and criticism from everyone and their dog. Thanks for the response, I really enjoy your videos
@@robby6382 he already cameoed in the movie, I think him doing that role as just a cameo (if they wanna do a F4 movie in the future replace him and claim some multiverse stuff or whatever) would've been good and he might've accepted it, especially considering he'd die right afterwards
In terms of diversity casting, I think FF is one of the few times they need to step back on it, at least in terms of it being specifically what they are going for. Obviously if they find a Reed (Ahem, Rahul Kohli if so pls), or a Johnny/Sue combination, that slots into a particular category, then fair enough, but I think if they're going to push to make it more or less completely race swapped (I don't buy the gender swap rumours at all) then I think it's going to backfire on them for one simple reason: I think FF fans want some familiarity. There's been so many naff adaptations that I think the more they veer away from what people know, the more they run the risk of having the same old pre-release negativity. I think, if Marvel wants to go the diversity route, the ace in the hole is the X-Men. The whole point of them is diversity, and when you look at the Giant-Sized comeback, it's easy to see how achievable that will be. It will be hilarious to see the reactions to this though, I can't wait for all the "URGH, SUCH FORCED DIVERSITY" crying That said, I do think we'll see Krasinski, and by extension Blunt, in FF. When it comes to alternative variants of characters, other than nostalgia casting, they tend to use the same actors, and I really don't think it's an accident that Reed has been drawn as Krasinski, especially when you consider what has happened previously when someone's likeness has been used, a la Samuel L. Jackson in The Ultimates. Also, no Dr Doom as the first villain. It's 2022, we're past having to blow our loads by having THE main villain be the first guy up, let Doom build
Is it wrong that I'm getting sick of Disney's diversity casting? Like on one hand, I understand the whole "I didn't expect I wanted that" argument (I actually was one of the few people who liked Taskmaster and the reason for Namor's change to being Mexican is probably the most interesting deepcuts ever), but then you consider the times Disney outright said no... specifically what they did with the Ancient One and how Fegie's been pussy footing around that issue in interviews. Or how Peter Parker can never be portrayed as black lmao. I dunno, I usually get strawmanned as those "AGH DIVERSITY" people for bringing up weird restrictions Disney does and it gets annoying.
I agree completely. As mentioned in the video I actually think it would be impossible to move forward on a radically changed FF long term because they try to get comic and film synergy when it comes to the cover characters. You can change the race and gender of characters like Mordo or valkyrie or Flag Smasher and just about get away with it, but buyers expect to pick up comics that feature cover characters they recognise from the movies and vice versa. When they changed Fury in the films and then tried to bring that over to the comics because that's what buyers now anticipated, it was a complete mess that took a lot of untangling to settle with later on. Now imagine them doing that with an entire cast of characters for one of their tentpole books. S'just not going to happen. There's also the fact that the well is somewhat poisoned thanks to the discourse. People are not looking to be charitable to any change, as we've seen, so changing the team in any way would recieve backlash that I don't think they could easily shake off, it's as you alluded the last of the red hot superhero properties at marvel that hasn't had a proper chance due to the mis-steps of movies past and people are poised to attack any alterations to what will probably be their last shot at the title. It's for these reasons and more that I'm fairly confident it'll be fine, I know Feige loves these characters and I know the rumormongers will always spin whatever story they have to in order to make bank. But i've been wrong before...
B-Mask just recommended Doug Walker to me. Look guys, if that's not an example of the wild ride this whole Marvel thing has been and that we're never going to be on the money with what we think is coming next, then I don't know what is.
I agree with your points. And still think that switching Kamala's powers from altering her body to being "Green Lantern with with pink-ish blue-ish energy instead of green" is incredibly lame, since we could have seen some real Monkey D. Luffy-type shit with her original powers.
The only way we can find out if it works for the show is when the show is done. I'm not ready to serve judgement on that point until I know for certain.
@@BMask My problem comes that her powers hold a significance to her development. She shifts into Carol Danvers, a blonde white conventionally beautiful superhero because that’s what she sees as normal but learns that being herself is enough. Feige defends the reason being to connect to Carol and Monica more which shows a complete misunderstanding of Kamala as a legacy hero. A costume design change isn’t a development point
@@thomasjohnson1885 we haven’t seen the full show- a show the creators are on board with. We don’t know what their take truly is yet. So I’m not ready to critique what I don’t know.
@@BMask Trailers are meant to advertise your product and the product so far and what people on the project have said to defend it really hasn’t given me confidence to it. Stan Lee has been positive to everything literally everything that has been produced so I don’t take a creator giving a thumbs up much credibility because it’s not like they’re gonna say it’s awful especially if they are gonna get paid (hopefully). Granted I feel a personal tie Kamala due to her being Muslim and her feelings of abnormality so what matters to me probably in the grand scheme doesn’t.
@@thomasjohnson1885 this is the problem though- Kamala fans don’t have that many more chances. This is a character that hasn’t had a terribly good rep outside of her core fan base, and that fan base is shooting itself in the foot by getting up in arms over what looks like a fairly good show. I don’t think they realise that this opportunity is kind of astounding. If it comes out and you still think it drags the whole thing down or is a terrible show, I’d totally understand. But to expect the worst and try to get others to expect the worst because of something designed to get more people on board that we don’t know the full story of before it even comes out is foolish. Especially given how much worse we’ve had it in the past. MUCH worse.
"Showing us the best version of the character's powers as depicted on screen so far." Eh, the death is comically brutal and ironic. It just doesn't make sense as far as his powers work. If they always worked like that he should vaporize his lower face every time he shouted. Or to compare it to another hero, Blackbolt's death would be like if Cyclops died cause he closed his eyelids and the optic blasts tore his eyelids or inner head if he rolled his eyes.
You basically summarized my thoughts on the film and also the popular MCU discourse as of late. I wish everyone could watch this video. It's annoying how often I see lukewarm takes on Twitter get standing ovations.
Reed talking as a family man is a very Reed thing to do. Usually Reed doesn't talk with cold logic to his enemies but with pure heart and layman terms except when they are genius and he knows is safe to mumbo jumbo
"Murdering him almost lethally". . . . Otherwise this a great video, but this was the dumbest sentence I've heard in a long time. Edit: I need to get my hearing checked.
@@BMask Is that what you said? Good lord, I listened to it twice to make sure that's what you said. Ha, wow, gleefully fits that sentence much better. I thought it seemed like an odd misstep.
Would be cool if in the MCU they just never came back after getting cosmic powers and have literally just been out there doing cosmic shit this whole time, but for them it's only been like a year but at the end they return to Earth and nothing is the same as it was when they left.
Im still not a big fan of how this cameo went down, but your take really helped warm me up to how it went and the MCU’s big changes as a whole. Great stuff as always
You're tapping into a much bigger issue with Twitter culture I general. This is like the 6th video I've watched about the same thing but for different mediums. Scary stuff. Really more of a planet of madness let alone a multiverse or even a universe
I liked Dr Strange 2 but didn't love it. However this video has made me want to revisit it and find the hidden depths that you found. It's so refreshing that despite 99% of the conversation about Mr Fantastic in this film is "Reed is dumb" that your commentary can shine through.
This video has gotten a bit sour to me after Love and Thunder severely disappointed me. This time, it’s not lack of auteurship though (as many very video essayists love to claim), and it’s not that Marvel themselves are a controlling studio It’s Disney. According to the Russos, Disney has gotten much more conservative and IP-driven ever since Iger left. Certainly a result of COVID. Too much Millennial humor and shallowness.
I wasn't the biggest fan of Love and Thunder, though I have reason to believe a lot of what it became was actually very much down to Taika- and there's definitely reason to be wary of Chapek's control- I was no Iger fan, and the fact that even he feels now it was a bad decision to put him in power says a lot (right after he gracelessly bailed, nice one Iger.) But i'm still not bowed to the belief that it can only get worse. I've lived through too many good things going bad and then turning around because the right people came in at the right time. Cinema is a cycle of this on different scales at different times. This too will pass.
@@BMask I’m glad you responded!! Big fan of your work. I do think we underestimate the severe effect COVID-19 had on the entire film industry - Marvel especially was hit hard in 2020; so I have a hunch that Phase 4 going forward won’t be as hollow because of production difficulties (for reference, Ms Marvel cut out a crap ton of content from the later episodes because of COVID restrictions in Karachi, and that was relatively minor) You are being much more optimistic than I am though. After Love and Thunder, the F4 movie is essentially going to be my make-it-or-break-it moment for the MCU (which sucks because Marvel now has the A-Tier properties I really grew up with)
MoM is just fine, it has Raimi’s style but failed to feel like his own work and was just so fine. Reed’s cameo was also just that, it was fine but it’s bizarre to have our first mutant and FF member are alternate versions that are brutally murdered and never seen again but I’m supposed to clap I guess.
@@thomasjohnson1885 Except it did for me. I found it to totally capture his unique voice and tell a story about self sacrafice that almost felt like Raimi talking about the concept of coming back to the world of superheroes and reconciling that with his past. We can call it whatever name you want, but the effect on me was so much more than what I expect from a corporate product. A lot of the MCU has that. But then I already covered this within the body of the video.
I guess I feel a little bad about how I just can't bring myself to care about the MCU anymore. I did like most of the Disney+ shows well enough, but only while I was experiencing them. As soon as I was done watching, they didn't stick with me. Honestly that's been how I've felt about the movies for a few years now, especially after Infinity War. I'm kind of in the same camp as how OSP has put it. I find it frustrating that the movies will kill off a character but have an alternate universe/timeline backup that will rid the storyline of consequences but without the development I came to like in the now dead character. Even worse, they do it to a character who has a lot of promise and interest that didn't get fully explored. Gamora specifically. I don't mind characters dying. I don't mind letting them go. However, the MCU has gotten so vast that it's reached a problem I have with comics, and why I could never get into them as much as other forms of media. It feels like it's impossible to let a character permanently go. Unless it's Uncle Ben, everyone is fair game to kill off or bring back for either shock value or fan service. Even if it's for genuinely interesting storytelling, I don't like that death is so impermanent. I don't like that definitive decisions have no impact. I'm sure the things I personally hold as problems, others see as virtues, and that's good. How we experience storytelling is vastly varied from person to person.
I didn't understand the thumbnail And I refused to watch this before I saw The new Doctor Strange movie. Having seen it and about to watch the video I love this reference 😂
I find it interesting how some people reacted to the fact how Illuminati was slaughtered. Seeing this scene my thought was "oh, yeah, this is totally something comic books would do, with similar gruesomness propably". Like at this point its just so normal to me that alternate versions of characters you know propably will die because well... theyre not really that important. Honestly i was very happy to see Reed in this movie, i started reading Hickman's FF recently and i really started to like the guy (my Reed Richards apologist arc). I liked how he actually was the one to try talk things out even tho it didn't worked really well. And generally it was fun movie. My only real problem with it was the fact they generally decided to take Wanda the same route as in the comics where well... the whole thing was in my perspective just casualty of Bendis setting up a playground. But yeah, arguably it is the most famous moments in Scarlet Witch history
I've personally never been terribly fond of live action super hero movies/shows. I've liked some of them, but I have always felt something was missing in the live action as opposed to animated works. Were there some MCU movies that were enjoyable to me? sure I liked basically all of the Phase 1 films, but after that there was a pretty sharp drop off on my interesting. But on the other hand I loved almost every episode of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. The Animated Avengers movies were enjoyable, and I liked a lot of the other miscellaneous animated marvel movies such as Iron Man, Doctor Strange, and of the course the best of the bunch, Planet Hulk. On the DC side of things you have an amazing animated universe, and outside of it you still have a plethora of movies. Are all of them masterpieces? definitely not, but many of them are still enjoyable.
My current the away on the whole 'mcu bad' debate is like anything but the movies...its the monopoly in theaters, overworked and probably underpaid vfx (and others like3d modelers) artists, an new marvel thing seems to be either annouced or release every six months for the past few years. It's just a lot and i wouldnt be surprised if there was more happening that isnt public.
I appreciate that this isn't something you can do as a critic of these things, but if enough adaptations and stuff don't sit right with me, I just walk away. My favorite hero is Spider-Man, and I didn't go out to watch a Spidey movie since 3(Though I did eventually watch most of them in social settings years later). I'm not gonna watch Thor 4, and until some new movie comes out that seems really exciting and cool I'm probably not gonna go back in for what, the 25th MCU movie at this point, in a little over a decade? Obviously I appreciate that the MCU gave it a good shot. I think the Marvel movies are better superhero movies than just about anything, and I watched most of those MCU movies for a long time. But that doesn't mean they weren't a letdown in many instances, and the flaws and annoyances were often the same across many movies. Rather than being open to some new adaptation in name only or deal with more of their typical problems, I've felt satisfied just leaving it alone after Endgame. I dunno if anything good comes from airing those grievances on twitter tho, the winning move is doing it in a youtuber's comment section
I feel the same, I had a rule to watch every single marvel media with a friend, but since endgame I stopped and rewatched some movies and changed my opinion. if you stop and see, the movies are done in the same way to sell, and it becomes tiring at some point. And in phase 4 I just care about 2 movies (guardians 3 and the FF), the other ones I'm just testing my pacience until it last none. Better read the comics, there are more variety and are done in a better way.
I was going to write about a long diatribe about how tribalism in comics and gatekeeping is silly but I stopped in my tracks. You love Hell Drivers?... As in Cy Endfields Hell Drivers? Starring Herbert Lom and Stanley Baker? Good God, man. Okay, I now wish that more people knew who the hell Cy Endfield was because OH DAMN, I'd love to hear your thoughts on his rather bonkers career. Came for the Doctor Strange, left curious on your thoughts on a blacklisted writer/director working in Britain in the fallout of the Blacklisting.
I think a lot of people have forgotten how bloody huge his film Zulu was here in Britain, what it did for Michael Caine. Admittedly I came to Helldrivers as someone binging a lot of Stanley Baker and Herbert Lom's appearances as of late. I've a pretty keen interest in classic cinema above most else but there's so many gaps in my knowledge I'm always trying to fill and the rest of the directors story Is something I'm only just getting into. Seems I'm stumbling upon new favourites from a number of the old blacklisters in the last couple years, having seen and loved screenwriter Dalton Trumbo's Lonely are the Brave, too! And yes gatekeeping is very silly lol
Saying people don't like professor hulk even though he is from the comics isn't the issue. The issue is how useless he becomes in the movies after he does. Look at the She hulk trailer for how passive he is. People are guarded for a reason. Most movie audiences don't care for comic canon and the new comic canon sucks. Hence why people are worried things in lore will become changed for the worse and to a larger audience. My Dad will never pick up a comic so he goes to the movies as a reference. And the new movies blow so his perception will be shaped.
Endgame was about the death of all the core avengers, not just physically, but metaphorically. Banner acts like this is the perfect ending, but there's a very noticeable edge of sadness and skepticism from the group. They don't feel this is right- but they also know things have been changed irrevocably, that even turning back time can't fix. It was entirely relevant to the story they wanted to tell, we had already had plenty of great savage hulk moments on film, and it was *entirely* transparent that Hulk would be back - which means this would absolutely not be how he remains. Because this happened in the comics too! Professor Hulk stuck around for a *long* time and there was always a slight edge to his existence Peter David directly played on. This is because of the tension that Hulk would always shift into another persona- and that became something later writers used consistently as time went on. You don't think they ever want to touch on Grey Hulk? People have even been anticipating a World War Hulk movie based on rumors that circulated not so long ago. I'd say everything is still on the table for that character. You guys know how stories work and you know Marvel is playing the long game. It never stands still, the characters always shift, and the comics were always about finding new and interesting takes between the moments where we got the status quo. So I think it's perfectly fine for Banner to act as a passive figure in a show where he's not the main character. It's not the end.
Dude, i love you. I really do. Let me have your babies. Everything you make is gold. However, please explain to me why you made me watch a Doug Walker review. Why?! Are you telling me Doug Walker is just like any other guy; someone with opinions and I shouldn’t take them seriously? Well I didn’t. But now I look at you and I think, “this isn’t chocolate; it’s vanilla!”
Completely unrelated but I despise how the term "discourse" has become a euphemism for "internet argument". People need to get their head out of their rectum and own up to the fact they're participating in petty and trivial online debate. Nothing wrong with that.
It used to be trivial. Then people with the power to make stuff started taking it seriously, addressing many arguments within their work. Now we have tonnes of references to fleeting trivial internet arguments or direct alterations made due to them. And people have gotten high on the energy of being recognised. Calling it the discourse for the purposes of classification comes with a fairly tongue in cheek attitude. I would rather not take it seriously. But people do.
Does anyone know if he has put out that list of comics/ trades he used for the huge Fantastic Four video? Been trying really hard to find it and want to get more into the four especially the Hickman stuff but a lot of it seems really hard to find. Would love to have that list
this was easily one of the most unique MCU films and i loved most of it, my only issue was the pacing was a huge issue imo. i wish that america’s character had been expanded on more and i wish that wanda had had more of an introduction to be a villain instead of just being thrown into it
Let me just say, when I saw this video for the first time I genuinely thought you were gonna talk about Morbius. Like I saw that thumbnail and for some reason wires crossed in my brain and connected to Morbius. This is despite the fact that, at the time, I saw the fucking clip with my own eyes. Like out of context mind you, I haven't watched Dr. Strange 2, but I just saw the clip itself with Reed and somehow didn't think "hey maybe he's gonna talk about this considering it was in the same movie mentioned in the, fucking title of the video."
A less cynical, and cautiously optimistic, take is always welcome. You make some good points about the nature of the MCU being special, even if it’s openly criticised by so many. I’m not a huge fan of Strange 2, I think it felt flat due to the way Raimi tends to write women, and Strange’s inner conflict wasn’t doing it for me, but god damn there was some cool shots in this movie.
I've seen arguments about why Reed didn't use something like the Ultimate Nullifier to fight Wanda and it really just shows how surface-level the understanding of these characters is to a lot of people.
It's a sad sad thing that I've not seen the movie yet and I have no reservations about watching this all the way through because some fuds on social media just can't keep their tepid fucking meme in their tepid fucking heads for a couple of weeks.
I personally REALLY REALLY hated strange 2. . . until I realized it was supposed to come BEFORE NWH. When I realized that, NWH is the part 2 that finishes the arc that S2 setup for him. When I look at strange 2 as like, the infinity war of the 2 movies, it's soooo much better and fixes so much that I had a problem with originally. The only thing I would change is remove the fking 616 garbage. We don't need that! It DOESN'T add ANYTHING!
my take on the inhumans show is that it got canceled too soon the show had room to find it’s footing and grow and improve if fans have it the time and patience But with the toxicity and impatience of cancel culture no one gave this show the time it needed If agents of shield got canceled after one season it wouldn’t have become as awesome as we know it If only people gave inhumans that same patience to get better The show could have had the biggest glo up ever like those ugly middle school kids that grow up to become hot Agents of shield was just as panned when it came out imagine if that show got canceled after 8 episodes But sadly because of the “fans” this show will forever be stuck in it’s ugly adolescence The actors did their best with what they were given and what they had to work with they just needed a different direction No one sets out to make something bad intentionally just cuz u didn’t connect with it doesn’t mean that someone else didn’t We should be kinder to media we consume Because art is subjective Not every show gets it right at first a lot of shows need time to grow and course correct With enough time and patience and rearranging and finding their footing it could have eventually become good but people are too impatient nowadays It’s a shame
Agreed with everything said. Easily the best time I've had with a Marvel project in a long time. Really appreciated the reference to a certain Disney movie about an evil witch trying to kill a young girl so she can assert her superiority, nice bit of not-so-subtle intertextuality there. Also, the only Fantastic Four casting I care about is Ben Grimm. Mr Feige, please cast John C. Reilly, I'm begging ya.
I don't like the very very very shoehorned forced "lost romance" plot that was forced in because it's necessary to the formula or the fact that America Chavez was more of a protagonist than Strange. I just wanted a Dr. Strange movie, not another ensemble film. I like Dr. Strange.
Trying to figure out how a lost romance in a story thematically all about sacrifice and giving up things you want is at all shoehorned in or if there was a scene where america chavez fought her evil self through a rad music battle instead of the lead character taking centre stage
@@BMask his romance is far too lost at that point. They played at is if it's been eating at him the entire time, but realistically he'd already forgotten about it (just as the audience will have) and moved on. He needed a new romance or no romance. Also yes Dr. Strange is very good in this movie. Better than he was in his first movie, even. The horrifying eldritch abominations he summons to take care of things is so over the top and amazing. Everything about him, every time he's on screen the movie shines. I'm lamenting the fact that a lot of the movie was stolen from his character by chavez and the scarlet witch. Like I said, I didn't really want an ensemble film introducing new characters to the MCU and wrapping up retiring characters... I just wanted a Dr. Strange movie. And it was 60% that, and so it was really only about 60% satisfying. it's a personal gripe, not a criticism of the movie.
But was it stolen? They have their moments but Strange is absolutely the sole focus, with even their inclusion adding to the theme of self sacrafice. Hell Chavez is purely a mcguffin, I didn't feel she stole time away at all. I also highly disagree about the romance, it's clear it's been eating at him the entire time beneath the surface and was played as something he's tried to let go of, but can't (also well done in the excellent what if episode.) It also allows us the excellent payoff with clea- that new beginnings are possible once we learn to let go. Perfectly done. I understand personal gripes, but it sounds like you're imagining a movie that definitely doesn't exist. Wasn't my experience at all.
It was a CGI massacre. I can enjoy marvel movies when they focus on the characters. But they had Strange, Kamala and Wanda (and Wong) to keep up with. Too much for it's own good. I hope it gets better with time and context...
A shame I missed the dead Strange possession scene because of a bathroom emergency while watching it in theaters recently. Also my brother in law who took me to see it/I went with talked about how Tom Cruise Iron Man with Time Stones was apparently going to be a part of the Illuminati as a reference to that actor being the one for the original role before he turned it down thinking it wouldn't be popular and that there was unused footage for him in Multiverse of Madness and he thinks that he would use the Time Stone to bring back his teammates that Wanda killed. Though that empty chair was probably just for that universe's Dr. Strange in hindsight. Also if John Krasinki doesn't return to act/direct Mr. Fantastic we could always get Glenn Howerton to do it cause someone suggested he be good for the role and I can see it.
Definitely look forward to the new ms marvel say. Can’t say I’m extremely excited for it but I hope it’s better than the disaster that was the 2020 avengers video game. I mean it’s not terrible but any means but could’ve been so much better overall.
i still can't go over the scene where strange opens a portal and doctor michael morbius comes out and says the line "it's morbin time" and morbs all over these guys and wanda truly a cameo of one of the characters of all time
I'm really excited we got to hear about your take on this new Reed! What did you think about how quickly he and the illuminati were taken out? I imagined that he'd hold his own more than he did, but I don't think I have a firm grasp on how powerful SW was since it's a magic conversation.
Very much with you on the Disney+ shows. For nearly every decision I think they do right there's at least one that takes away from that decision’s impact and one that is outright bad. I really enjoyed Loki my first time through but my rewatch of the show was a disappointing as I realized that what I enjoyed about the setup (namely Loki and Möbius’s dynamic, the ambivalent nature of the TVA, and Loki's continuous scheming) fell through once Sylvie came into the picture. That's kind of the point I suppose, but I think there could have been a way to preserve those elements of the character/show rather than have them drop off to support Sylvie's revenge plot. I did really enjoy it’s style though as a compliment to the new direction Thor's taking. Whereas Thor's latest ventures are bombastic space adventures along the lines of He-Man and Flash Gordon, Loki focuses on the weird but mundane sci-fi elements like Doctor Who or Quantum Leap. Definitely love the show's style and hope it gets more experimental with elements of genre moving forward. I suppose the same can be said about nearly every Disney+ show. Most of Phase 4 has been lackluster in a lot of ways and that mostly lands on a lack of direction. Characters and concepts are being introduced to the toybox but never truly fitting, like the reworked Celestials and Eternals, Black Widow's gap year, and the multiverse concept as a whole. Every new show or movie feels like the opening of Age of Ultron where the team's just fighting Hydra. You have to make up your own explanation of how and why that works or dig through material like Agents of SHIELD to find an answer. Question: is the multiverse a different concept to the alternative timelines of Loki? What does the universe gain if both exist simultaneously? Does one diminish the other? I can see certain ways these upcoming films/shows/holiday specials can capitalize on these concepts and of course I think any of these properties can work with the right direction and vision but I'd much rather have them act as ways to define character like in Multiverse of Madness rather than detract for the sake of new toys and revitalizing potentially dead brands like the spin-offs of Black Widow, Captain America, and Iron Man.
Really like your positive take on a film I respect but didn’t thrill me. “Wait until these projects actually come out before you judge them” is one good takeaway from all the recent MCU discourse.
This is another example of why, even if don’t always agree with you, I really like your videos.
People who complain that this movies are not faithful seems to forget what came before.
“Not faultless, not my favorite, but it’s own little masterpiece” sums up my thoughts on the film as well.
Really this whole video is the vibe, I feel.
That's what he also said about psychonauts 2!! :D
I feel another one of the reasons why people seem so...lukewarm towards Multiverse of Madness is due to how the nature of how the average fan learns about information regarding a particular work has changed. Soudns weird, but hear me out.
Maybe it's my neck of the woods, but most of people's opinion regarding their animosity over the film seems to be more on the "what could have been" versus "What we got". In today's age it has become much easier to learn about the production of movies, specially Marvel given they seem to be extremely leak-heavy as of late. As such, it seems that now fans have the knowledge of exactly what was changed during re-shoots to a way too uncomfortable level. The fact people know exactly which cameos and which parts of the story were less of a Raimi choice and more of a Disney mandate thing seems to be rubbing off people the wrong way.
And I can understand (to a degree, mind you) how this fuels the fear of misrepresentation; How can you trust a character you like or you're taking as your introduction being represented in a way you seem satisfying when you come with the already precognition that is was NOT the director's original intent but rather another order from higher ranks for the sole purpose of synergy? It's not like people haven't experienced that burn before: We saw this with Sam Raimi himself some time ago with Spiderman 3 where he was pushed to use a character that he never felt the appeal to above his more fondly remembered classic era of villains and with the likes of the Star Wars newer trilogy we have seen some of the downsides when Disney micro-managing habits can end up dulling a product a bit too much. As such, when people end up reading on the fact Sam didn't even know who America was before re-shoots it somewhat muddles the perspective of what they are about to see.
HOWEVER, one must always remember that every movie production is a collaborative effort. And a well-seasoned director always knows that sometimes you can't have exactly 100% of the control specially on big budgets creations like this one. As such, one can't simply assume that just because he didn't want things like America and the Illuminati at first automatically means this is a production that he feels no pride in creating. Thoughts change, perspectives shift through development; things change. I don't think Sam Raimi'd have really stuck by long enough if the ENTIRE movie had been a production that he wasn't fully comfortable in doing so, so we can't simply dwell on the "what could have been" and we need to see the "What we got" from what it's presented on the screen rather than JUST it's long production history.
Excellent points. I have very in depth thoughts and feelings about this, mostly about how the louder the discourse gets the less it seems people seem to show that they understand how *anything* is made, but this covers a section of that nicely.
@@BMask Indeed. Funny enough, this entire line of thought and my more understanding view of the movie is all thanks to you, B-Mask.
It's probably still there in an older comment in the F4 vid, bit to recap: I used to feel in a somewhat similar way towards the Secret Wars because I kept seeing it in a cynical way: All I could see of the product back then was another elaborate excuse by Marvel with the sole purpose of finding a way to write off The Fantastic Four off the books in order to fit the MCU synergy machine.
But it was YOUR video about the Fantastic Four that made me realize that, once I actually saw the content of the book for what it was, was actually a great use and sendoff to what had been previously writer and set off of the family's development.
In today's age its SO difficult to shake off those cynical vibes, specially with corporations becoming bigger and hungrier with each passing minute, so it's nice to sometimes appreciate a work for what it's trying to display rather than just get caught of the menutia of the people who made it.
I’m just going to chip in to say that I knew nothing about the movie prior to going in, and I was really disappointed. I don’t love Raimi, and I think most people who were excited for his take on this watched the Spider-Man 1-3 films he did ages ago, and kind of forgot how much Raimi loves classic 70s cheese. I went in knowing that, and the movie seemed mostly absent of the stuff he does well. Some fun set pieces near the end aside, the movie felt like it lacked from the more horror direction.
Dissolving Wanda down into ‘give me my babies’ just sucked. It’s motivation that would have fit a stage 1 villain, not a fully fleshed our character who’s been around for a decade. I didn’t think Wanda Vision was some masterpiece of understanding grief, but I came out of it thinking ‘well at least she changed and learned so I don’t need to watch that again’. Idk, but criticism about the MCU will mostly fall on deaf ears while it’s still making money
@@cameronjohnson4936 I don't think that's true at all.
The MCU makes extremely calculated decisions based on audience reactions, which they inevitably turn around and complain about. Why did we go from a Kraven the Hunter film to a spider verse picture? Because twitter incessantly demanded it while poking at the new movies in the least charitable way imaginable. Why did Sam Raimi get called back to work with Feige? Because he'd seen the thousands of tweets and videos suddenly elevating Raimi to god-like status because he made those spider man movies and demanding his return.
And where are those accounts now?
*silent.*
The MCU is always adapting to criticism. Unfortunately the criticism has become horribly unwieldy. I think they're handling it well and I think those films, because they're calculated, will hold up in the end for the qualities people were supposed to have picked up on the first time around, but honestly, I think they were doing just fine when they weren't listening to the noise.
@@BMask Yeah, fair enough. Its a hell of a balancing act, making good movies while dealing with more than a decade of cannon and criticism from everyone and their dog. Thanks for the response, I really enjoy your videos
Bruce Campbell should've been Reed Richards. That's all I have to say.
Dude... My mind is blown. You just blackbolted me.
I see it, but I don't see Campbell wanting to be in the mcu
@@robby6382 he already cameoed in the movie, I think him doing that role as just a cameo (if they wanna do a F4 movie in the future replace him and claim some multiverse stuff or whatever) would've been good and he might've accepted it, especially considering he'd die right afterwards
As much as I love Bruce Campbell I don't see this working
@@captainjakemerica4579A younger him maybe but...
12:46 Remember that this guy made a video on Disney's Hercules partially because he was bitter towards Doug's take on the film.
WHY DOES IT LOOK LIKE VEGAS
@@BMask I DON'T GET IT!
WHY DOES IT LOOK LIKE VEGAS
B is one of the few channels I drop everything I’m doing to watch
In terms of diversity casting, I think FF is one of the few times they need to step back on it, at least in terms of it being specifically what they are going for. Obviously if they find a Reed (Ahem, Rahul Kohli if so pls), or a Johnny/Sue combination, that slots into a particular category, then fair enough, but I think if they're going to push to make it more or less completely race swapped (I don't buy the gender swap rumours at all) then I think it's going to backfire on them for one simple reason: I think FF fans want some familiarity. There's been so many naff adaptations that I think the more they veer away from what people know, the more they run the risk of having the same old pre-release negativity. I think, if Marvel wants to go the diversity route, the ace in the hole is the X-Men. The whole point of them is diversity, and when you look at the Giant-Sized comeback, it's easy to see how achievable that will be. It will be hilarious to see the reactions to this though, I can't wait for all the "URGH, SUCH FORCED DIVERSITY" crying
That said, I do think we'll see Krasinski, and by extension Blunt, in FF. When it comes to alternative variants of characters, other than nostalgia casting, they tend to use the same actors, and I really don't think it's an accident that Reed has been drawn as Krasinski, especially when you consider what has happened previously when someone's likeness has been used, a la Samuel L. Jackson in The Ultimates. Also, no Dr Doom as the first villain. It's 2022, we're past having to blow our loads by having THE main villain be the first guy up, let Doom build
Is it wrong that I'm getting sick of Disney's diversity casting? Like on one hand, I understand the whole "I didn't expect I wanted that" argument (I actually was one of the few people who liked Taskmaster and the reason for Namor's change to being Mexican is probably the most interesting deepcuts ever), but then you consider the times Disney outright said no... specifically what they did with the Ancient One and how Fegie's been pussy footing around that issue in interviews. Or how Peter Parker can never be portrayed as black lmao. I dunno, I usually get strawmanned as those "AGH DIVERSITY" people for bringing up weird restrictions Disney does and it gets annoying.
I agree completely. As mentioned in the video I actually think it would be impossible to move forward on a radically changed FF long term because they try to get comic and film synergy when it comes to the cover characters. You can change the race and gender of characters like Mordo or valkyrie or Flag Smasher and just about get away with it, but buyers expect to pick up comics that feature cover characters they recognise from the movies and vice versa. When they changed Fury in the films and then tried to bring that over to the comics because that's what buyers now anticipated, it was a complete mess that took a lot of untangling to settle with later on. Now imagine them doing that with an entire cast of characters for one of their tentpole books. S'just not going to happen.
There's also the fact that the well is somewhat poisoned thanks to the discourse. People are not looking to be charitable to any change, as we've seen, so changing the team in any way would recieve backlash that I don't think they could easily shake off, it's as you alluded the last of the red hot superhero properties at marvel that hasn't had a proper chance due to the mis-steps of movies past and people are poised to attack any alterations to what will probably be their last shot at the title. It's for these reasons and more that I'm fairly confident it'll be fine, I know Feige loves these characters and I know the rumormongers will always spin whatever story they have to in order to make bank.
But i've been wrong before...
B-Mask just recommended Doug Walker to me.
Look guys, if that's not an example of the wild ride this whole Marvel thing has been and that we're never going to be on the money with what we think is coming next, then I don't know what is.
I agree with your points.
And still think that switching Kamala's powers from altering her body to being "Green Lantern with with pink-ish blue-ish energy instead of green" is incredibly lame, since we could have seen some real Monkey D. Luffy-type shit with her original powers.
The only way we can find out if it works for the show is when the show is done. I'm not ready to serve judgement on that point until I know for certain.
@@BMask My problem comes that her powers hold a significance to her development. She shifts into Carol Danvers, a blonde white conventionally beautiful superhero because that’s what she sees as normal but learns that being herself is enough. Feige defends the reason being to connect to Carol and Monica more which shows a complete misunderstanding of Kamala as a legacy hero. A costume design change isn’t a development point
@@thomasjohnson1885 we haven’t seen the full show- a show the creators are on board with. We don’t know what their take truly is yet. So I’m not ready to critique what I don’t know.
@@BMask Trailers are meant to advertise your product and the product so far and what people on the project have said to defend it really hasn’t given me confidence to it. Stan Lee has been positive to everything literally everything that has been produced so I don’t take a creator giving a thumbs up much credibility because it’s not like they’re gonna say it’s awful especially if they are gonna get paid (hopefully). Granted I feel a personal tie Kamala due to her being Muslim and her feelings of abnormality so what matters to me probably in the grand scheme doesn’t.
@@thomasjohnson1885 this is the problem though- Kamala fans don’t have that many more chances. This is a character that hasn’t had a terribly good rep outside of her core fan base, and that fan base is shooting itself in the foot by getting up in arms over what looks like a fairly good show. I don’t think they realise that this opportunity is kind of astounding.
If it comes out and you still think it drags the whole thing down or is a terrible show, I’d totally understand. But to expect the worst and try to get others to expect the worst because of something designed to get more people on board that we don’t know the full story of before it even comes out is foolish. Especially given how much worse we’ve had it in the past. MUCH worse.
"Showing us the best version of the character's powers as depicted on screen so far."
Eh, the death is comically brutal and ironic. It just doesn't make sense as far as his powers work. If they always worked like that he should vaporize his lower face every time he shouted. Or to compare it to another hero, Blackbolt's death would be like if Cyclops died cause he closed his eyelids and the optic blasts tore his eyelids or inner head if he rolled his eyes.
I've never met anyone who can do it tho
get off of twitter my guy
This is good advice tbh
You basically summarized my thoughts on the film and also the popular MCU discourse as of late. I wish everyone could watch this video. It's annoying how often I see lukewarm takes on Twitter get standing ovations.
People need to stop acting like Joker is Real Cinema when it's a derivative at best work that actively hates the work it is "inspired" by.
I absolutely adore King Of Comedy, and I kind of wish we were all talking more about that instead.
I'm of the view that Raimi should have directed the Thor movie especially with Gorr's Modus Operandi
Fan favorite heroes coming out and immediately dying to the bland antagonist to raise the stakes is pulled right from the comics though?
Reed talking as a family man is a very Reed thing to do. Usually Reed doesn't talk with cold logic to his enemies but with pure heart and layman terms except when they are genius and he knows is safe to mumbo jumbo
"Murdering him almost lethally". . . . Otherwise this a great video, but this was the dumbest sentence I've heard in a long time.
Edit: I need to get my hearing checked.
Not lethally - Gleefully!
@@BMask Is that what you said? Good lord, I listened to it twice to make sure that's what you said. Ha, wow, gleefully fits that sentence much better. I thought it seemed like an odd misstep.
@@VonDiesel3768 it’s totally fine, my voice can be a bit gummy and trips up on certain sounds, trying my best each recording to identify that!
Did you really had to recommend a video of internez pest Doug Walker of all people...?
Not any one film can be all things to all people. But if it made it forget your overall meaningless existence, then didn't it do what it set out to?
Absolutely.
Would be cool if in the MCU they just never came back after getting cosmic powers and have literally just been out there doing cosmic shit this whole time, but for them it's only been like a year but at the end they return to Earth and nothing is the same as it was when they left.
Im still not a big fan of how this cameo went down, but your take really helped warm me up to how it went and the MCU’s big changes as a whole. Great stuff as always
You're tapping into a much bigger issue with Twitter culture I general. This is like the 6th video I've watched about the same thing but for different mediums. Scary stuff. Really more of a planet of madness let alone a multiverse or even a universe
Oh absolutely. If more people are starting to speak out about it on here then that means we’re probably due a shift soon…
@@BMask fingers and toes crossed! Be nice if we were all nice again haha
Bmask recommending a Doug Walker review? Did it finally happened? Did Doug finally understood why does it looks like Vegas?
I DID joke about Alf being in that movie because of the Alf comics I'll never forget about.
I liked Dr Strange 2 but didn't love it. However this video has made me want to revisit it and find the hidden depths that you found.
It's so refreshing that despite 99% of the conversation about Mr Fantastic in this film is "Reed is dumb" that your commentary can shine through.
This video has gotten a bit sour to me after Love and Thunder severely disappointed me.
This time, it’s not lack of auteurship though (as many very video essayists love to claim), and it’s not that Marvel themselves are a controlling studio
It’s Disney. According to the Russos, Disney has gotten much more conservative and IP-driven ever since Iger left. Certainly a result of COVID. Too much Millennial humor and shallowness.
I wasn't the biggest fan of Love and Thunder, though I have reason to believe a lot of what it became was actually very much down to Taika- and there's definitely reason to be wary of Chapek's control- I was no Iger fan, and the fact that even he feels now it was a bad decision to put him in power says a lot (right after he gracelessly bailed, nice one Iger.)
But i'm still not bowed to the belief that it can only get worse. I've lived through too many good things going bad and then turning around because the right people came in at the right time. Cinema is a cycle of this on different scales at different times.
This too will pass.
@@BMask I’m glad you responded!! Big fan of your work.
I do think we underestimate the severe effect COVID-19 had on the entire film industry - Marvel especially was hit hard in 2020; so I have a hunch that Phase 4 going forward won’t be as hollow because of production difficulties (for reference, Ms Marvel cut out a crap ton of content from the later episodes because of COVID restrictions in Karachi, and that was relatively minor)
You are being much more optimistic than I am though. After Love and Thunder, the F4 movie is essentially going to be my make-it-or-break-it moment for the MCU (which sucks because Marvel now has the A-Tier properties I really grew up with)
B-Mask CONFIRMED FOR DOUGISM???
(also nice Pooh's Adventures appearance)
MoM is just fine, it has Raimi’s style but failed to feel like his own work and was just so fine. Reed’s cameo was also just that, it was fine but it’s bizarre to have our first mutant and FF member are alternate versions that are brutally murdered and never seen again but I’m supposed to clap I guess.
Brother this felt much more like his work than bloody Oz the great and powerful
@@BMask One is a corporate mess but another corporate product being less of one doesn’t make it not just that.
@@thomasjohnson1885 Except it did for me. I found it to totally capture his unique voice and tell a story about self sacrafice that almost felt like Raimi talking about the concept of coming back to the world of superheroes and reconciling that with his past.
We can call it whatever name you want, but the effect on me was so much more than what I expect from a corporate product. A lot of the MCU has that. But then I already covered this within the body of the video.
I guess I feel a little bad about how I just can't bring myself to care about the MCU anymore. I did like most of the Disney+ shows well enough, but only while I was experiencing them. As soon as I was done watching, they didn't stick with me. Honestly that's been how I've felt about the movies for a few years now, especially after Infinity War.
I'm kind of in the same camp as how OSP has put it. I find it frustrating that the movies will kill off a character but have an alternate universe/timeline backup that will rid the storyline of consequences but without the development I came to like in the now dead character. Even worse, they do it to a character who has a lot of promise and interest that didn't get fully explored. Gamora specifically. I don't mind characters dying. I don't mind letting them go. However, the MCU has gotten so vast that it's reached a problem I have with comics, and why I could never get into them as much as other forms of media. It feels like it's impossible to let a character permanently go. Unless it's Uncle Ben, everyone is fair game to kill off or bring back for either shock value or fan service. Even if it's for genuinely interesting storytelling, I don't like that death is so impermanent. I don't like that definitive decisions have no impact.
I'm sure the things I personally hold as problems, others see as virtues, and that's good. How we experience storytelling is vastly varied from person to person.
I am also a fan of this movie so its good To see someone highlighting what works about it
I didn't understand the thumbnail
And I refused to watch this before I saw The new Doctor Strange movie. Having seen it and about to watch the video I love this reference 😂
honestly the only people with wose hot takes then mcu stans are anti-mcu/marvel stans.
I find it interesting how some people reacted to the fact how Illuminati was slaughtered. Seeing this scene my thought was "oh, yeah, this is totally something comic books would do, with similar gruesomness propably". Like at this point its just so normal to me that alternate versions of characters you know propably will die because well... theyre not really that important.
Honestly i was very happy to see Reed in this movie, i started reading Hickman's FF recently and i really started to like the guy (my Reed Richards apologist arc). I liked how he actually was the one to try talk things out even tho it didn't worked really well.
And generally it was fun movie.
My only real problem with it was the fact they generally decided to take Wanda the same route as in the comics where well... the whole thing was in my perspective just casualty of Bendis setting up a playground. But yeah, arguably it is the most famous moments in Scarlet Witch history
I've personally never been terribly fond of live action super hero movies/shows. I've liked some of them, but I have always felt something was missing in the live action as opposed to animated works. Were there some MCU movies that were enjoyable to me? sure I liked basically all of the Phase 1 films, but after that there was a pretty sharp drop off on my interesting. But on the other hand I loved almost every episode of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. The Animated Avengers movies were enjoyable, and I liked a lot of the other miscellaneous animated marvel movies such as Iron Man, Doctor Strange, and of the course the best of the bunch, Planet Hulk. On the DC side of things you have an amazing animated universe, and outside of it you still have a plethora of movies. Are all of them masterpieces? definitely not, but many of them are still enjoyable.
"Don't worry the Illuminati was meant to be a writing device" does not make me like that cameo even slightly.
the best version of Reed Richards is in Venture Bros
Oof, 10:13 hits home big time
Hype for that Raimi Spidey essay
My current the away on the whole 'mcu bad' debate is like anything but the movies...its the monopoly in theaters, overworked and probably underpaid vfx (and others like3d modelers) artists, an new marvel thing seems to be either annouced or release every six months for the past few years. It's just a lot and i wouldnt be surprised if there was more happening that isnt public.
I appreciate that this isn't something you can do as a critic of these things, but if enough adaptations and stuff don't sit right with me, I just walk away. My favorite hero is Spider-Man, and I didn't go out to watch a Spidey movie since 3(Though I did eventually watch most of them in social settings years later). I'm not gonna watch Thor 4, and until some new movie comes out that seems really exciting and cool I'm probably not gonna go back in for what, the 25th MCU movie at this point, in a little over a decade?
Obviously I appreciate that the MCU gave it a good shot. I think the Marvel movies are better superhero movies than just about anything, and I watched most of those MCU movies for a long time. But that doesn't mean they weren't a letdown in many instances, and the flaws and annoyances were often the same across many movies. Rather than being open to some new adaptation in name only or deal with more of their typical problems, I've felt satisfied just leaving it alone after Endgame.
I dunno if anything good comes from airing those grievances on twitter tho, the winning move is doing it in a youtuber's comment section
I feel the same, I had a rule to watch every single marvel media with a friend, but since endgame I stopped and rewatched some movies and changed my opinion. if you stop and see, the movies are done in the same way to sell, and it becomes tiring at some point. And in phase 4 I just care about 2 movies (guardians 3 and the FF), the other ones I'm just testing my pacience until it last none. Better read the comics, there are more variety and are done in a better way.
I was going to write about a long diatribe about how tribalism in comics and gatekeeping is silly but I stopped in my tracks.
You love Hell Drivers?... As in Cy Endfields Hell Drivers? Starring Herbert Lom and Stanley Baker?
Good God, man. Okay, I now wish that more people knew who the hell Cy Endfield was because OH DAMN, I'd love to hear your thoughts on his rather bonkers career. Came for the Doctor Strange, left curious on your thoughts on a blacklisted writer/director working in Britain in the fallout of the Blacklisting.
I think a lot of people have forgotten how bloody huge his film Zulu was here in Britain, what it did for Michael Caine. Admittedly I came to Helldrivers as someone binging a lot of Stanley Baker and Herbert Lom's appearances as of late. I've a pretty keen interest in classic cinema above most else but there's so many gaps in my knowledge I'm always trying to fill and the rest of the directors story Is something I'm only just getting into. Seems I'm stumbling upon new favourites from a number of the old blacklisters in the last couple years, having seen and loved screenwriter Dalton Trumbo's Lonely are the Brave, too!
And yes gatekeeping is very silly lol
Saying people don't like professor hulk even though he is from the comics isn't the issue. The issue is how useless he becomes in the movies after he does. Look at the She hulk trailer for how passive he is.
People are guarded for a reason. Most movie audiences don't care for comic canon and the new comic canon sucks. Hence why people are worried things in lore will become changed for the worse and to a larger audience. My Dad will never pick up a comic so he goes to the movies as a reference. And the new movies blow so his perception will be shaped.
Endgame was about the death of all the core avengers, not just physically, but metaphorically. Banner acts like this is the perfect ending, but there's a very noticeable edge of sadness and skepticism from the group. They don't feel this is right- but they also know things have been changed irrevocably, that even turning back time can't fix. It was entirely relevant to the story they wanted to tell, we had already had plenty of great savage hulk moments on film, and it was *entirely* transparent that Hulk would be back - which means this would absolutely not be how he remains.
Because this happened in the comics too! Professor Hulk stuck around for a *long* time and there was always a slight edge to his existence Peter David directly played on. This is because of the tension that Hulk would always shift into another persona- and that became something later writers used consistently as time went on. You don't think they ever want to touch on Grey Hulk? People have even been anticipating a World War Hulk movie based on rumors that circulated not so long ago. I'd say everything is still on the table for that character.
You guys know how stories work and you know Marvel is playing the long game. It never stands still, the characters always shift, and the comics were always about finding new and interesting takes between the moments where we got the status quo. So I think it's perfectly fine for Banner to act as a passive figure in a show where he's not the main character.
It's not the end.
SAMURAI COP
NOW I'M TELLING THESE MOTHER FUCKERS
Dude, i love you. I really do. Let me have your babies. Everything you make is gold. However, please explain to me why you made me watch a Doug Walker review. Why?! Are you telling me Doug Walker is just like any other guy; someone with opinions and I shouldn’t take them seriously? Well I didn’t. But now I look at you and I think, “this isn’t chocolate; it’s vanilla!”
This was really stupid of me. And instantly regret it. But i aint taking it down. Lol
This is a genuinely sane reaction, I do not blame you, I promise you this can all be explained I
Completely unrelated but I despise how the term "discourse" has become a euphemism for "internet argument".
People need to get their head out of their rectum and own up to the fact they're participating in petty and trivial online debate. Nothing wrong with that.
It used to be trivial. Then people with the power to make stuff started taking it seriously, addressing many arguments within their work. Now we have tonnes of references to fleeting trivial internet arguments or direct alterations made due to them. And people have gotten high on the energy of being recognised.
Calling it the discourse for the purposes of classification comes with a fairly tongue in cheek attitude. I would rather not take it seriously. But people do.
@@BMask yeah it's become too much of a catch-all term I suppose.
Does anyone know if he has put out that list of comics/ trades he used for the huge Fantastic Four video? Been trying really hard to find it and want to get more into the four especially the Hickman stuff but a lot of it seems really hard to find. Would love to have that list
I put a list in the pinned comment of the video, and I think it's in the description now too!
@@BMask oh man idk how I missed that. Awesome thank you!!
@@aidanbastin-cornell7606 No problem, it did take me a while to get round to it so that's probably on me haha
Gonna have to give this “Doug Walker” guy a look. Seems like a real stand up guy
Fantastic Spaghetti
Looking forward to that spidey video, I'm also not big on raimi's take
this was easily one of the most unique MCU films and i loved most of it, my only issue was the pacing was a huge issue imo. i wish that america’s character had been expanded on more and i wish that wanda had had more of an introduction to be a villain instead of just being thrown into it
Let me just say, when I saw this video for the first time I genuinely thought you were gonna talk about Morbius. Like I saw that thumbnail and for some reason wires crossed in my brain and connected to Morbius. This is despite the fact that, at the time, I saw the fucking clip with my own eyes. Like out of context mind you, I haven't watched Dr. Strange 2, but I just saw the clip itself with Reed and somehow didn't think "hey maybe he's gonna talk about this considering it was in the same movie mentioned in the, fucking title of the video."
1:04 IS that.... Is that Shuma Gorath??!!
They changed the name to gargantos, but yeah, it's shuma gorath.
A less cynical, and cautiously optimistic, take is always welcome. You make some good points about the nature of the MCU being special, even if it’s openly criticised by so many.
I’m not a huge fan of Strange 2, I think it felt flat due to the way Raimi tends to write women, and Strange’s inner conflict wasn’t doing it for me, but god damn there was some cool shots in this movie.
Honestly was never a fan of the Fantastic 4, so I just laughed and carried on watching.
I really appreciated the camio appearance of that purple spaghetti in the latest Doctor Strange movie.
B-Mask released a video. I'M GONNA MORB.
proffesor Hulk sucks because his character is absolute power, and when we finally got strong villians he doesnt use her power
damn here was i thinking this was about the black bolt cameo
I've seen arguments about why Reed didn't use something like the Ultimate Nullifier to fight Wanda and it really just shows how surface-level the understanding of these characters is to a lot of people.
Spot on, honestly.
i hate the actor Jim from the office but i have to admit hes a great fit
YES!!! FINALLY!!! I crave your marvel videos ever since the FF!
I thought it was really awesome
It's a sad sad thing that I've not seen the movie yet and I have no reservations about watching this all the way through because some fuds on social media just can't keep their tepid fucking meme in their tepid fucking heads for a couple of weeks.
Some fantastic spaghetti am I right?
OK BUT WHY NO FISHPEOPLE??????????????????
but i care about hell drivers
Blue Sghettis
...I cannot believe I'm going to watch a Disneycember video in your suggestion lol
I respect you a lot for the use of the thumbnail not wanting to spoil but still understandable enough for those who know, you are a very smart man
I personally REALLY REALLY hated strange 2. . . until I realized it was supposed to come BEFORE NWH. When I realized that, NWH is the part 2 that finishes the arc that S2 setup for him. When I look at strange 2 as like, the infinity war of the 2 movies, it's soooo much better and fixes so much that I had a problem with originally.
The only thing I would change is remove the fking 616 garbage. We don't need that! It DOESN'T add ANYTHING!
my take on the inhumans show is that it got canceled too soon the show had room to find it’s footing and grow and improve if fans have it the time and patience
But with the toxicity and impatience of cancel culture no one gave this show the time it needed
If agents of shield got canceled after one season it wouldn’t have become as awesome as we know it
If only people gave inhumans that same patience to get better
The show could have had the biggest glo up ever like those ugly middle school kids that grow up to become hot
Agents of shield was just as panned when it came out imagine if that show got canceled after 8 episodes
But sadly because of the “fans” this show will forever be stuck in it’s ugly adolescence
The actors did their best with what they were given and what they had to work with they just needed a different direction
No one sets out to make something bad intentionally just cuz u didn’t connect with it doesn’t mean that someone else didn’t
We should be kinder to media we consume
Because art is subjective
Not every show gets it right at first a lot of shows need time to grow and course correct
With enough time and patience and rearranging and finding their footing it could have eventually become good but people are too impatient nowadays
It’s a shame
at 3:05 is that ignacio varga?
Agreed with everything said. Easily the best time I've had with a Marvel project in a long time. Really appreciated the reference to a certain Disney movie about an evil witch trying to kill a young girl so she can assert her superiority, nice bit of not-so-subtle intertextuality there.
Also, the only Fantastic Four casting I care about is Ben Grimm. Mr Feige, please cast John C. Reilly, I'm begging ya.
I don't like the very very very shoehorned forced "lost romance" plot that was forced in because it's necessary to the formula or the fact that America Chavez was more of a protagonist than Strange.
I just wanted a Dr. Strange movie, not another ensemble film. I like Dr. Strange.
Trying to figure out how a lost romance in a story thematically all about sacrifice and giving up things you want is at all shoehorned in
or if there was a scene where america chavez fought her evil self through a rad music battle instead of the lead character taking centre stage
@@BMask his romance is far too lost at that point. They played at is if it's been eating at him the entire time, but realistically he'd already forgotten about it (just as the audience will have) and moved on. He needed a new romance or no romance.
Also yes Dr. Strange is very good in this movie. Better than he was in his first movie, even. The horrifying eldritch abominations he summons to take care of things is so over the top and amazing. Everything about him, every time he's on screen the movie shines. I'm lamenting the fact that a lot of the movie was stolen from his character by chavez and the scarlet witch.
Like I said, I didn't really want an ensemble film introducing new characters to the MCU and wrapping up retiring characters... I just wanted a Dr. Strange movie. And it was 60% that, and so it was really only about 60% satisfying.
it's a personal gripe, not a criticism of the movie.
But was it stolen? They have their moments but Strange is absolutely the sole focus, with even their inclusion adding to the theme of self sacrafice. Hell Chavez is purely a mcguffin, I didn't feel she stole time away at all.
I also highly disagree about the romance, it's clear it's been eating at him the entire time beneath the surface and was played as something he's tried to let go of, but can't (also well done in the excellent what if episode.) It also allows us the excellent payoff with clea- that new beginnings are possible once we learn to let go. Perfectly done.
I understand personal gripes, but it sounds like you're imagining a movie that definitely doesn't exist. Wasn't my experience at all.
Thanks, I too have been worried about the upcoming FF film because of the three other mainstream less-than-good ones. You've given me a little hope.
hope Krasinki's Reed has a better run in the MCU's fantastic four
It was a CGI massacre. I can enjoy marvel movies when they focus on the characters. But they had Strange, Kamala and Wanda (and Wong) to keep up with. Too much for it's own good. I hope it gets better with time and context...
A shame I missed the dead Strange possession scene because of a bathroom emergency while watching it in theaters recently. Also my brother in law who took me to see it/I went with talked about how Tom Cruise Iron Man with Time Stones was apparently going to be a part of the Illuminati as a reference to that actor being the one for the original role before he turned it down thinking it wouldn't be popular and that there was unused footage for him in Multiverse of Madness and he thinks that he would use the Time Stone to bring back his teammates that Wanda killed. Though that empty chair was probably just for that universe's Dr. Strange in hindsight. Also if John Krasinki doesn't return to act/direct Mr. Fantastic we could always get Glenn Howerton to do it cause someone suggested he be good for the role and I can see it.
Definitely look forward to the new ms marvel say. Can’t say I’m extremely excited for it but I hope it’s better than the disaster that was the 2020 avengers video game. I mean it’s not terrible but any means but could’ve been so much better overall.
Krasinski would've made for a better Mister Miracle, alongside Gina Carano as Big Barda
Smartest man in the room...tells the enemy how to defeat his friend...suuure |D
I love you B but I can’t endure Doug Walker for you I’m sorry
i still can't go over the scene where strange opens a portal and doctor michael morbius comes out and says the line "it's morbin time" and morbs all over these guys and wanda
truly a cameo of one of the characters of all time
I appreciate the spoiler free title and thumbnail. Gonna be back later.
Nice DVD collection!
Thanks! That’s only some of them as well haha
This video gave me a lot of happiness 😊 Thanks for making it!
Hey! This video isnt about Morbius!
Finally a competent opinion on that cameo!
I'm really excited we got to hear about your take on this new Reed! What did you think about how quickly he and the illuminati were taken out? I imagined that he'd hold his own more than he did, but I don't think I have a firm grasp on how powerful SW was since it's a magic conversation.
Reed underestimating a magician and being able to do nothing to stop her is kinda perfect imo
@@NotAFakeName1 That's true, he just got spaghetti'd so instantly and I thought he'd do *something* lol
You are way too harsh on Black Widow it is not bottom tier MCU and Captain Marvel and Eternals aren't bad and the Disney + shows have all been great
I actually thought Black Widow was marginally better than a lot of those lol
@@BMask good glad to hear that so tired of it being made out to be one of the worst of the MCU
Very much with you on the Disney+ shows. For nearly every decision I think they do right there's at least one that takes away from that decision’s impact and one that is outright bad. I really enjoyed Loki my first time through but my rewatch of the show was a disappointing as I realized that what I enjoyed about the setup (namely Loki and Möbius’s dynamic, the ambivalent nature of the TVA, and Loki's continuous scheming) fell through once Sylvie came into the picture. That's kind of the point I suppose, but I think there could have been a way to preserve those elements of the character/show rather than have them drop off to support Sylvie's revenge plot. I did really enjoy it’s style though as a compliment to the new direction Thor's taking. Whereas Thor's latest ventures are bombastic space adventures along the lines of He-Man and Flash Gordon, Loki focuses on the weird but mundane sci-fi elements like Doctor Who or Quantum Leap. Definitely love the show's style and hope it gets more experimental with elements of genre moving forward. I suppose the same can be said about nearly every Disney+ show.
Most of Phase 4 has been lackluster in a lot of ways and that mostly lands on a lack of direction. Characters and concepts are being introduced to the toybox but never truly fitting, like the reworked Celestials and Eternals, Black Widow's gap year, and the multiverse concept as a whole. Every new show or movie feels like the opening of Age of Ultron where the team's just fighting Hydra. You have to make up your own explanation of how and why that works or dig through material like Agents of SHIELD to find an answer. Question: is the multiverse a different concept to the alternative timelines of Loki? What does the universe gain if both exist simultaneously? Does one diminish the other? I can see certain ways these upcoming films/shows/holiday specials can capitalize on these concepts and of course I think any of these properties can work with the right direction and vision but I'd much rather have them act as ways to define character like in Multiverse of Madness rather than detract for the sake of new toys and revitalizing potentially dead brands like the spin-offs of Black Widow, Captain America, and Iron Man.
Having seen the film i kinda guessed what u were gonna talk about from the thumbnail this film was dark af. And i love it.
This is what's its all about
Another really great video
Ay I got a shout out.
Spaghetti Jim
second lol
i totally agree, i'm not a fan of raimi's spidermans either.
Bazinga