Maybe a summary in short: There are two kinds of "bidirectionalness". One is referring to the data communication between the FC and the ESC (aka "Bidirectional DSHOT") the other is referring to the operational direction of rotation of the motors, which can be "bidirectional" too, for allowing 3D flying. They are two separate terms.
Funny enough, I helped a beginner with this exact problem a few months back. He had configured this option and his quad actually flew fine, except that beyond about 50% throttle it would freak out into a spin of death, which I guess is when the DSHOT values generated cause the motor direction to reverse. This is because Betaflight also needs to be configured for 3D flight in order for it to map the throttle position to the correct 3D DSHOT protocol values, so this issue can be really tricky to troubleshoot when it's made by mistake. I think the term "bidirectional" is overloaded and the Betaflight devs should rename it to "Duplex DSHOT" or "Inband DSHOT Telemetry", and just Ieave "bidirectional DSHOT" to mean 3D motor control.
i never even noticed that option ..i imagine this effects alot of new pilots and not so much the older pilots who have been flying awhile and know what 3d is
Exactly that. Anybody who at least roughly know that Oneshot/Dshot/... is an communication protocol, will not make this mistake. And even non-techie with ability to cope "motor direction" in mind, will not do this.
From the ESC's perspective it's "bidirectional" since it has to be able to spin the motors both directions. It actually has nothing to do with whether you choose to use this for 3D flight. For example you might use this for a brushless motor powered ground vehicle.
I'm not disagreeing with you but naming things is hard. I know most people who use BLheli32 use it for multirotors but one could just as well use a BLHeli32 ESC for a plane or even a boat or model train and for all of these scenarios the name "3D" doesn't make much sense but "bidirectional" does
The argument that blheli32 could be used for ground vehicles, I find it a little weak. Ground vehicles usually use sensored motors because BEMF sensing doesn't work when motor rpm is low. So they are very poor at slow speed crawling, which cars and trucks need. BLHeli doesn't support sensored motors as far as I know. Well, I'm not an expert on ground vehicles but that's what I read.
Actually, Betaflight devs should be blamed for using a confusing word here. A proper name for bidirection dshot should be Half-duplex dshot, because it's a transmission protocol and duplex name is already well established in communication. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplex_(telecommunications)
Really? If so I'm surprised more people aren't talking about it. I've been paying for Jesc on all my BLheli_s builds and it's well worth, plus I get to give back to the developer who made RPM filtering possible. But I'd definitely use the official Blheli_s firmware going forward if it's on par.
2 questions, 1 I thought somewhere you said 4.2 bf has motor remapping built into GUI, can't find it or the video, 2 I thought you said somewhere the the new blheli 16bit firmware from belheli has dshot bidirectional now, no need for 3rd party, again can't find video or any new firmware from blheli, help?
@@JoshuaBardwell had to flip a flywoo 13a aio upside-down to have the downward USB port not hitting frame and facing up, mapped motors w/cli all is well. On the esc, the blheli s program does not have a 16.71, just 16.7 (esc = G-H-30).
I destroyed 3-4 motors and possibly the ESC today after I enabled bidirectional DShot and the drone brought the motors to 100% throttle on its own in a disasrmed mode. I explain it in my new video.
@@JoshuaBardwell I'm still shocked that the motors can spin up in a disarmed mode... No the props was removed when it happened. If it had gone silly, you would have activate BD-DShot without the battery connected, and without the right firmware, by mistake, but with props. Then drone unconnected off the computer and connected to the battery. Could lead to heart damage...
I've tried bidirectional dshot on both my 3 inch and five inch and everything is if until you fly them they both make a whining hi pitch noise when you bump the ground or jerk the sticks hard enough and the whining stays until you re arm the quads and as soon as they start the whining they get really touchy like a wound up crack head weird.
HI! :Does Multishot have Corresponding "bidirectional" filtering like DSHOT? If yes, how it compares? My PID Loop Frequency is at 2.00khz based on CLI. Will i be good if i use Bidirectional on 2.00khz?
It's not possible to use bidirectional dshot or rpm filtering without Dshot. Multishot cannot do that. You should use Dshot if at all possible, and frankly, I would hesitate to use any ESC that didn't support Dshot on a modern multirotor.
@@JoshuaBardwell Thank u for thisJoshua! FC supports DShot600 as well. Based on ESC Protocol Speed Comparison seemed that Multishot is slight better and thats why i chose this. Do I really need rpm filtering, how would i know?
Definitely don't use multishot over dshot. Digital protocol is 100% the way to go. The advantages of digital protocol far outweigh any slight latency improvement of multishot. Do you like using turtle mode? You need dshot.
Joshua doesn't want to go a day without releasing a video but he doesn't have the time on the road, so now I'm watching him warn a bunch of people that bidirectional d-shot isn't the same thing as bidirectional motor spin.
@@JoshuaBardwell I wasn't being serious, it was just a joke because I'd have never imagined people would have asked you this question so much it deserves to be broadcast lmao
I'm also wondering what the disadvantage is when setting "3D" but not using it. I had a friend tell me about how his new 4in1 didn't push the same power as before with individual ESCs... I'm wondering if it was related to that.
Does anyone have the factory defaults on OpenTX companion for the BetaFPV lite radio 2. I messed mine up and the only option i have left to fix it is to reset it and I can’t find the defaults on the internet.
I did this once when i was quickly setting up bidirectional dshot on a second quad in a row. I might have tried to reverse the ESCs if it was a new build.
Its mostly for propwash handling when coming with power loops or making hard turns, if you already have a good tune in the pids you probably won't notice much of a difference
@@JoshuaBardwellThanks for the answer Josh. My 4S 5in build is all setup the way you showed. I usually just don't push very hard, that's probably why I don't see much of a difference. I do have a Cinewhoop that is still running a really old Betaflight version, I should try it on that one too.
Going to sound like a total noob but my ecs says this Support : Reversed Dshot 300/600 did this mean bi directional dshot since the normal would be foward?
people who usualy ask this cant even build a drone...to those, just stop calibrate and LISTEN. start small. start and building and knowing how a drone works FIRST. dont be stupid, or at least TRY to think
Oof, wish you made this video last week. Just fried a motor on saturday trying all different types of firmware due to having it set up in blheli. However, in fairness, the BLHeli_S configurator does not say 3D. At least the version I had didn't.
Something you fail to mention in your 3D video you make if you are running d-shot and your motors are regular you have to use bidirectional reverse. if your motors are reversed you use bidirectional. something you fail to mention in every one of your 3D videos.
Ok so first of all, "every one of my 3D videos" is exactly one video. Two if you count this one, where I am not really talking about 3D but talking about not mis-using this option under normal circumstances. Second of all, the Mob7 video was made in 2019, on blheli_s version 16.7. I show exactly the steps I took to get the quad flying. If I had gotten the motor direction wrong, the quad would not fly at all and would flip out. I literally show myself, nearly in real time, setting the options, then testing the quad, and it works. Have you considered that the option might have changed in blheli since I made that video? Or that blheli32 might have different motor direction than blheli_s? I don't know because, like I said, I haven't been back to that option. But the steps in the video work exactly as shown, when using the equipment in the video. Regardless, I appreciate you bringing my mind back to this video from 3 years ago, to point out that it might mislead people. I will be happy to leave a pinned comment pointing out the problem. Or you are welcome to leave one (you always were) and I'll be glad to pin it.
@@JoshuaBardwell go back to your Mob7 vid and try again. you fail to explain that with Dshot if the motor in normal you have to use bidirectional revers. witch you fail to explain proper.
Yep, people are extremely creative when it comes to ways to make things not work. :)
Thats a good one 😆
😂so true
9
Maybe a summary in short: There are two kinds of "bidirectionalness". One is referring to the data communication between the FC and the ESC (aka "Bidirectional DSHOT") the other is referring to the operational direction of rotation of the motors, which can be "bidirectional" too, for allowing 3D flying. They are two separate terms.
Funny enough, I helped a beginner with this exact problem a few months back. He had configured this option and his quad actually flew fine, except that beyond about 50% throttle it would freak out into a spin of death, which I guess is when the DSHOT values generated cause the motor direction to reverse. This is because Betaflight also needs to be configured for 3D flight in order for it to map the throttle position to the correct 3D DSHOT protocol values, so this issue can be really tricky to troubleshoot when it's made by mistake.
I think the term "bidirectional" is overloaded and the Betaflight devs should rename it to "Duplex DSHOT" or "Inband DSHOT Telemetry", and just Ieave "bidirectional DSHOT" to mean 3D motor control.
i never even noticed that option ..i imagine this effects alot of new pilots and not so much the older pilots who have been flying awhile and know what 3d is
Exactly that. Anybody who at least roughly know that Oneshot/Dshot/... is an communication protocol, will not make this mistake. And even non-techie with ability to cope "motor direction" in mind, will not do this.
They should relabel it just 3D and 3D Reversed to avoid confusion. Bidirectional 3D is redundant.
From the ESC's perspective it's "bidirectional" since it has to be able to spin the motors both directions. It actually has nothing to do with whether you choose to use this for 3D flight. For example you might use this for a brushless motor powered ground vehicle.
I'm not disagreeing with you but naming things is hard. I know most people who use BLheli32 use it for multirotors but one could just as well use a BLHeli32 ESC for a plane or even a boat or model train and for all of these scenarios the name "3D" doesn't make much sense but "bidirectional" does
The argument that blheli32 could be used for ground vehicles, I find it a little weak. Ground vehicles usually use sensored motors because BEMF sensing doesn't work when motor rpm is low. So they are very poor at slow speed crawling, which cars and trucks need. BLHeli doesn't support sensored motors as far as I know.
Well, I'm not an expert on ground vehicles but that's what I read.
@@JoshuaBardwell didn't know that! Guess I learned something today :D thanks
Actually, Betaflight devs should be blamed for using a confusing word here. A proper name for bidirection dshot should be Half-duplex dshot, because it's a transmission protocol and duplex name is already well established in communication. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplex_(telecommunications)
Ok sir that was a punch in the face and i say thank you. Great help like always :D
The latest Blheli s firmware officially supports bidirectional dshot without the dodgy free and pay 3rd party mods previously required.
Yes I just did this on my new quad, havent had a chance to fly it yet cause of the rain smh
Really? If so I'm surprised more people aren't talking about it. I've been paying for Jesc on all my BLheli_s builds and it's well worth, plus I get to give back to the developer who made RPM filtering possible. But I'd definitely use the official Blheli_s firmware going forward if it's on par.
Kandred there’s a really easy tutorial done by Whirly Bloke
Yes it works fine 👍
Well... It should be fun to see someone trying it... From a huge distance, of course. 😬
Stay safe there with your family, Joshua! 🖖😊
It does a spin of death above half throttle lol, I thought somethign was wrong and bought a new stack 😂😂
In my defense I’ve been flying kiss almost exclusively for 2.5/3 years
@@mhoovair89 😱
I need help how do I flash the firmware need on my 32 bit tekko32 I'm using Big Sur also
2 questions, 1 I thought somewhere you said 4.2 bf has motor remapping built into GUI, can't find it or the video, 2 I thought you said somewhere the the new blheli 16bit firmware from belheli has dshot bidirectional now, no need for 3rd party, again can't find video or any new firmware from blheli, help?
Betaflight motor remapping GUI is in the works but it's not added yet. BLHeli_S 16.71 has bidirectional dshot.
@@JoshuaBardwell had to flip a flywoo 13a aio upside-down to have the downward USB port not hitting frame and facing up, mapped motors w/cli all is well. On the esc, the blheli s program does not have a 16.71, just 16.7 (esc = G-H-30).
I'm going to check this setting *right now* . ^^
I destroyed 3-4 motors and possibly the ESC today after I enabled bidirectional DShot and the drone brought the motors to 100% throttle on its own in a disasrmed mode. I explain it in my new video.
Ok I'm gonna guess your ESC doesn't support bidirectional dshot and also just asking, were your props on?
@@JoshuaBardwell I'm still shocked that the motors can spin up in a disarmed mode... No the props was removed when it happened. If it had gone silly, you would have activate BD-DShot without the battery connected, and without the right firmware, by mistake, but with props. Then drone unconnected off the computer and connected to the battery. Could lead to heart damage...
I've tried bidirectional dshot on both my 3 inch and five inch and everything is if until you fly them they both make a whining hi pitch noise when you bump the ground or jerk the sticks hard enough and the whining stays until you re arm the quads and as soon as they start the whining they get really touchy like a wound up crack head weird.
HI! :Does Multishot have Corresponding "bidirectional" filtering like DSHOT? If yes, how it compares? My PID Loop Frequency is at 2.00khz based on CLI. Will i be good if i use Bidirectional on 2.00khz?
It's not possible to use bidirectional dshot or rpm filtering without Dshot. Multishot cannot do that. You should use Dshot if at all possible, and frankly, I would hesitate to use any ESC that didn't support Dshot on a modern multirotor.
@@JoshuaBardwell Thank u for thisJoshua! FC supports DShot600 as well. Based on ESC Protocol Speed Comparison seemed that Multishot is slight better and thats why i chose this. Do I really need rpm filtering, how would i know?
Definitely don't use multishot over dshot. Digital protocol is 100% the way to go. The advantages of digital protocol far outweigh any slight latency improvement of multishot. Do you like using turtle mode? You need dshot.
@@JoshuaBardwell wow thank u for this, i didn't know that was analog. It seems everywhere that d-shot is the way
Joshua doesn't want to go a day without releasing a video but he doesn't have the time on the road, so now I'm watching him warn a bunch of people that bidirectional d-shot isn't the same thing as bidirectional motor spin.
If you watch my editorial calendar you'll see this has been scheduled for about 3 weeks.
@@JoshuaBardwell I wasn't being serious, it was just a joke because I'd have never imagined people would have asked you this question so much it deserves to be broadcast lmao
@@JoshuaBardwell I watch every single video you put out and this is the comment you actually reply to. My luck is straight trash.
Does anyone have any idea how ESC telemetry works at INAV?
But.. going the other way, I'm switching my 3d quad back to 2d. Is there an advantage to flashing the esc back?
I'm also wondering what the disadvantage is when setting "3D" but not using it.
I had a friend tell me about how his new 4in1 didn't push the same power as before with individual ESCs... I'm wondering if it was related to that.
@@hateeternalmaver BTW, I tried 3D soft and had tonnes of wobbles on the tune so went back to non-soft.
Does anyone have the factory defaults on OpenTX companion for the BetaFPV lite radio 2. I messed mine up and the only option i have left to fix it is to reset it and I can’t find the defaults on the internet.
I did this once when i was quickly setting up bidirectional dshot on a second quad in a row. I might have tried to reverse the ESCs if it was a new build.
I watched the tutorial 4x now, because it's been weeks between setups, and I'm older n dirt.
dude, you have a video for everything.
Does Blheli_s support bidirectional d shot right out of the gate or do we still have to do the jazzmaverick / jesc upload?
blheli 16.71 does.
I cant get bidirectional dshot to work right at all
And I learned something today. 8)
Do people actually make that mistake?
I must be a really bad pilot, but I don't really feel any difference when RPM filtering is enabled.
Its mostly for propwash handling when coming with power loops or making hard turns, if you already have a good tune in the pids you probably won't notice much of a difference
@@cozmics1191 Thanks for the answer! I don't play much with PIDs, but that's probably it.
If all you did was enable it, and then you didn't change any other settings, that's the problem. Watch my tutorial :-)
@@JoshuaBardwellThanks for the answer Josh. My 4S 5in build is all setup the way you showed. I usually just don't push very hard, that's probably why I don't see much of a difference. I do have a Cinewhoop that is still running a really old Betaflight version, I should try it on that one too.
Going to sound like a total noob but my ecs says this Support : Reversed Dshot 300/600 did this mean bi directional dshot since the normal would be foward?
I have no idea how to interpret that, to be honest.
@@JoshuaBardwell cool so what the worst that would happen if i turn on bidirectional dshot just going to FLIP OUT .. i will let you know what happens
Yeah I made this mistake when I played with BetaFlight for the first time in almost two year a few weeks back
After checking the ESC firmware version and finding they're already good, it feels anti-climactic. You wanna flip some settings for good measure.
people who usualy ask this cant even build a drone...to those, just stop calibrate and LISTEN. start small. start and building and knowing how a drone works FIRST. dont be stupid, or at least TRY to think
"Ice is back with a brand new invention. something grabs a hold of me tightly.......dammit stuck in my head now lol
Can an emax femto do bidirectional d shot?
Hey Joshua, if only i'd seen this f*:k:
i want the potato riot teeshirt that is styled like top gun for the love of god... amazing
Im curious how people would conflate the two. Motor direction doesn't imply protocol at all.
🤔👏👏👏
Oops, you got me!
I'll leave 3D to Zoe.
Oof, wish you made this video last week. Just fried a motor on saturday trying all different types of firmware due to having it set up in blheli. However, in fairness, the BLHeli_S configurator does not say 3D. At least the version I had didn't.
This is BLHeli 32 configurator. Old BLHeli configurator didn't had 3D option.
Thank you so much Josh that had me Fu d up
How many here of guys are flying with Tekko32 esc's?
Lol as someone who flies 3d this made me giggle
3 people made this mistake at the time of this comment.
Five33 tiny trainer pls review mister jb
Turtle mode?
My KISS ESC’s........... just work 🤷♂️
Until they burst into flames...
Just use KISS ESCs... no need for all this confusing nonsense
Yes, all you need is a fire extinguisher.
Well, after waiting nearly 2 months my FETTEC 45A finally shipped. And it was only $75! Such a bargain.
I’m actually a dumbass
First
Firstn't
Well isn't that special
people srsly do this?! /facepalm
Something you fail to mention in your 3D video you make if you are running d-shot and your motors are regular you have to use bidirectional reverse. if your motors are reversed you use bidirectional. something you fail to mention in every one of your 3D videos.
Ok so first of all, "every one of my 3D videos" is exactly one video. Two if you count this one, where I am not really talking about 3D but talking about not mis-using this option under normal circumstances.
Second of all, the Mob7 video was made in 2019, on blheli_s version 16.7. I show exactly the steps I took to get the quad flying. If I had gotten the motor direction wrong, the quad would not fly at all and would flip out. I literally show myself, nearly in real time, setting the options, then testing the quad, and it works.
Have you considered that the option might have changed in blheli since I made that video? Or that blheli32 might have different motor direction than blheli_s? I don't know because, like I said, I haven't been back to that option. But the steps in the video work exactly as shown, when using the equipment in the video.
Regardless, I appreciate you bringing my mind back to this video from 3 years ago, to point out that it might mislead people. I will be happy to leave a pinned comment pointing out the problem. Or you are welcome to leave one (you always were) and I'll be glad to pin it.
@@JoshuaBardwell go back to your Mob7 vid and try again. you fail to explain that with Dshot if the motor in normal you have to use bidirectional revers. witch you fail to explain proper.
hahahahaha. how could one,
lol
👍👀🇭🇷