Great video Grant! Packed full of good information and your despcriptions are very understandable. I'm surprised there aren't more videos out there directly comparing the T429 and the M4SL. I'd say this is a video many people will appreciate. Thanks for taking the time to put this together!
You make perfect sense Grant. I think it’s great that you rediscovered MTB on the trail bike then got to feel a top notch XC racer. Xc bikes are so much more versatile now it was a no brainer. You’re lucky to still have both in case you venture off to unknown gnar from time to time. Nice jersey BTW. More great content from you! This one was a thoughtful comparison and confession.
@TheRickysee - Thanks! You said it perfectly, XC bikes are super versatile, and super fast. I just love a bike that feels good to pedal. Does that make me a secret roadie? Oh gosh...
@@elroobike I hate the roadie MTB fued. Why so many haters. I think many MTB folk just have a fear of road biking. Get over it I say. Nothing better than a 4 hour road group ride i say, well almost nothing.
@TheRickysee - There does seem to be a strange bias or fear toward road bikes. It reminds me of the old ski vs snowboard feud. Both are fun, why hate on each other??
Great video. I have the Mach 4 SL and love it. I live in Colorado and have been considering a Hightower for some of the more technical downhills. Would love to get your take.
@DesertGoonr - Thanks for checking out the vid! I haven't tried the Hightower yet, but it looks similar on paper to the Pivot Switchbalde which I have ridden. I'll see what I can do about lining up a Hightower to compare it against it.
I have the 2022 Pivot Trail 429. It is the most well balanced short-travel trail bike out there. It is a climber like a Ripley and very efficient. While the Ripley slightly climbs better on smoother fire trails, the Trail 429 climbs better in more technical & challenging trails. It is a descender like the Santa Cruz Tallboy, maybe not quite as plush but pretty close. The Tallboy smashes in best of class downhill for a short-travel trail bike, the Trail 429 does too and you won't bottom out either bike. But the Trail 429 is more maneuverable & feels like a 27.5 with its agility. Unless I was racing competitively or just do a bunch of blue trails or don't go explore unknow trails with unexpected surprises, why would I buy the Mach 4SL?
Thanks brother for doing this. You definitely related the intended design philosophies of each model exactly the way I needed. The car comparison is perfect 👍. You had me at Porsche 😁 Looks like my research is a wrap. It's the Mach 4SL for my riding style. Thanks again !
@HLDefender - Thank you for the idea! The video was fun to make. Now that the weather is finally warming up, it will be great to get out and really put some miles on the Mach 4. Let me know if you have any other ideas for vids, this was great!
@HLDefender - On the Mach 4 I've tried both the shorter (106mm) and longer (115mm). For this test I had it in the longer 115mm setting. But I honestly love the shorter travel setting, I think the bike climbs better, pedals better, almost like it was made for that. The only time I noticed the 106mm wasn't the best choice was during an extended high speed descent on rough ground with drops. On the 429 I keep it in the lower setting, never tried the other. I have a friend who swears by the higher setting on the 429.
@andywilliams5769 - It's called the Pivot Trifecta tool - here's a link to it: global.pivotcycles.com/products/phoenix-dock-ninja-trifecta-tool?Title=Default+Title
@lazylearner967 - I've had the T429 longer enough that I've been able to ride most of the trails with it. With the Mach 4, in the time I've had this bike ,I have been recovery from hand surgery I had 5 months ago. So most of my riding is to build base fitness for the upcoming season and get my hand back. So I've been sticking with less chunky trails near my house. If you want you can all of my rides on Strava, I tag my rides with the bike I ride that day. Link is in video description.
I have a Tallboy and my wife has a M4SL. The M4SL is much better IMO for what we ride and how we ride (Simcoe county area Ontario Canada). I don't find the jeep-like feel (Tallboy) very rewarding.
@MrRafa2196 - Dang those are primo brakes! I thought I would have to immediately change out the 2-piston brakes on this bike, But I have been very happy with them. Let me know when you get them!!!
Been looking for this exact comparison to be discussed since the Mach 4 in the longer setting makes it more like a trail bike, but probably climbs way better than a FS trail bike. I've been going back and forth on which of these two (and the Ibis Ripley) to buy as a first FS bike. If you could spec your Trail 429 with lighter components and have the two bikes weigh the same (since the frames are only about a pound apart), do you think the Trail 429 would be as precise, responsive, and "rewarding" as your Mach 4? Do you think you'd still have to try harder to get it to respond to you?
@quintonomous11 - Hey there! Thanks for watching. It may make sense to begin by taking a step back and identify what exactly you want from your new bike. Ideally, what do you want it to be able to do? What kind of riding, meaning time per ride, terrain, speed, are you using it for fun, event/race training or something else? What kind of bike are you used to riding? Once we have more info about what your ideal bike needs to be able to do for you, the choice becomes much easier.
I plan on using the bike for fun rides up and down the trails of Northern California. I don’t race or train, just like to get out there with friends for 1-4 hours in Northern California. I’m used to gravel bikes and I’ve had a Salsa Timberjack for the last year that I love and put a 140 fork on it. It’s set up for bikepacking and trail riding most of the time but when i throw rekons on it, I’m guessing it feels like a long xc bike! I want to feel more confident on my descents so maybe the trail 429 is the move?
@quintonomous11 - A couple things came to mind based on your experience with gravel bikes and the Salsa Timberjack, it's important to consider a bike that complements your current setup. Since you enjoy 1-4 hour rides in Northern California and prioritize confidence on descents, a full suspension bike like the Trail 429 could be appealing. However, given your familiarity with the efficiency of gravel bikes and hardtails, transitioning to a full suspension may pose some challenges. If you plan to keep your hardtail, complementing it with a bike that offers comfort, good descending, and a solid pedaling platform for longer rides makes sense. The Trail 429 fits this criteria well, offering a balance of comfort and performance. On the other hand, if you prefer a lighter weight and prioritize pedaling efficiency, the Mach 4 could be a better fit. While it may require more careful line choices on technical terrain, it excels in pedaling efficiency and still offers good descending capabilities. I recommend exploring both options further, and demo each bike if you can. Here’s a link to the Pivot demo schedule this year. www.pivotcycles.com/en/demos-us/ .
@lazylearner967 - On the T429 I have Maxxis rekon 2.4 front and rear. On the Mach 4 I have Maxxis rekon 2.4 in the front and rekon race 2.4 in the rear. The rekon race is a faster rolling tire, but it does have a bit less grip.
@ninjabic - Only briefly during a parking lot test ride. It reminded me of my old Mach 6. Seems like it would be a fun bike. What are your thoughts on it?
@MrDavecore777 - Thanks for watching! The bike I would choose would depend on what's important to me and what I want out of the bike. In your example, are you keeping your enduro bike? Are you after a second bike that is a fast pedaling machine to compliment with your bigger enduro bike? Identify what's most important and then look for bike options that are a fit.
@@elroobike yes exactly, that’s one option I would keep my enduro bike and get a second fast pedalling bike which allows me to get after work rides say 25km loop. Other option would be selling enduro and getting trail 429 only and use for trail rides as well. I am also 5ft7 am I right in thinking the S is a better fit on these? Thanks
@MrDavecore777 - I feel ya on the bike size, I'm 5'6" on a good day. All of my bikes are size small, but my torso is long for my height so I always have to add a long stem to get the reach right. Depending on the bike and what you want it to feel like, it might be worth seeing if a medium would work for you. But if you're close, you can always make a smaller bike bigger, but you can't make a bigger bike smaller. I can say that I loved how versatile the 429 is. And unless you have a super efficient bike you regularly ride, like a road bike or hardtail, you may be perfectly happy with the way the 429 handles and can do most things really well for thousands of miles on it like I was. But if you really want a monster of a pedaling machine, you can't beat the Mach 4.
What qualities are most important to you in your bike or your next bike?
Color tbh
Great video Grant! Packed full of good information and your despcriptions are very understandable. I'm surprised there aren't more videos out there directly comparing the T429 and the M4SL. I'd say this is a video many people will appreciate. Thanks for taking the time to put this together!
@venronux - Thank you! Glad you liked the vid, it was fun to make. I'm lucky to get to ride these bikes!
Awesome vid brother.. I absolute love my Mach4 SL. Did my first couple of races on it for the 2024 season. Keep the vids coming
@jenenzachmurphy2703 - Thanks! The Mach 4 really is sweet. Race season it just starting in my area, excited to give it a go!
Did you win?
You make perfect sense Grant. I think it’s great that you rediscovered MTB on the trail bike then got to feel a top notch XC racer. Xc bikes are so much more versatile now it was a no brainer. You’re lucky to still have both in case you venture off to unknown gnar from time to time. Nice jersey BTW. More great content from you! This one was a thoughtful comparison and confession.
@TheRickysee - Thanks! You said it perfectly, XC bikes are super versatile, and super fast. I just love a bike that feels good to pedal. Does that make me a secret roadie? Oh gosh...
@@elroobike I hate the roadie MTB fued. Why so many haters. I think many MTB folk just have a fear of road biking. Get over it I say. Nothing better than a 4 hour road group ride i say, well almost nothing.
@TheRickysee - There does seem to be a strange bias or fear toward road bikes. It reminds me of the old ski vs snowboard feud. Both are fun, why hate on each other??
Thanks for review, I am on a LES going for a Mach 4
Great video. I have the Mach 4 SL and love it. I live in Colorado and have been considering a Hightower for some of the more technical downhills. Would love to get your take.
@DesertGoonr - Thanks for checking out the vid! I haven't tried the Hightower yet, but it looks similar on paper to the Pivot Switchbalde which I have ridden. I'll see what I can do about lining up a Hightower to compare it against it.
I have the 2022 Pivot Trail 429. It is the most well balanced short-travel trail bike out there. It is a climber like a Ripley and very efficient. While the Ripley slightly climbs better on smoother fire trails, the Trail 429 climbs better in more technical & challenging trails. It is a descender like the Santa Cruz Tallboy, maybe not quite as plush but pretty close. The Tallboy smashes in best of class downhill for a short-travel trail bike, the Trail 429 does too and you won't bottom out either bike. But the Trail 429 is more maneuverable & feels like a 27.5 with its agility. Unless I was racing competitively or just do a bunch of blue trails or don't go explore unknow trails with unexpected surprises, why would I buy the Mach 4SL?
Thanks brother for doing this. You definitely related the intended design philosophies of each model exactly the way I needed. The car comparison is perfect 👍.
You had me at Porsche 😁
Looks like my research is a wrap.
It's the Mach 4SL for my riding style. Thanks again !
@HLDefender - Thank you for the idea! The video was fun to make. Now that the weather is finally warming up, it will be great to get out and really put some miles on the Mach 4. Let me know if you have any other ideas for vids, this was great!
@elroobike 👍
....out of curiosity , what position were the flip chips installed on the bikes ? Min or max rear travel? 🤔
@HLDefender - On the Mach 4 I've tried both the shorter (106mm) and longer (115mm). For this test I had it in the longer 115mm setting. But I honestly love the shorter travel setting, I think the bike climbs better, pedals better, almost like it was made for that. The only time I noticed the 106mm wasn't the best choice was during an extended high speed descent on rough ground with drops. On the 429 I keep it in the lower setting, never tried the other. I have a friend who swears by the higher setting on the 429.
Great video What's! What's the thing called on your mach 4 sl holding the co2 cartridges and tube? I'm looking for something like that
@andywilliams5769 - It's called the Pivot Trifecta tool - here's a link to it: global.pivotcycles.com/products/phoenix-dock-ninja-trifecta-tool?Title=Default+Title
Curious which bike you take on which trails in St George? I would guess for most of those trails the trail 429 is the better tool?
@lazylearner967 - I've had the T429 longer enough that I've been able to ride most of the trails with it. With the Mach 4, in the time I've had this bike ,I have been recovery from hand surgery I had 5 months ago. So most of my riding is to build base fitness for the upcoming season and get my hand back. So I've been sticking with less chunky trails near my house. If you want you can all of my rides on Strava, I tag my rides with the bike I ride that day. Link is in video description.
I have a Tallboy and my wife has a M4SL. The M4SL is much better IMO for what we ride and how we ride (Simcoe county area Ontario Canada). I don't find the jeep-like feel (Tallboy) very rewarding.
Love my mach 4sl its so good!
@MrRafa2196 - for sure!
Only thing I dislike are the XT brakes. Hope soon i can get some Trickstuff piccola 😬
@MrRafa2196 - Dang those are primo brakes! I thought I would have to immediately change out the 2-piston brakes on this bike, But I have been very happy with them. Let me know when you get them!!!
Been looking for this exact comparison to be discussed since the Mach 4 in the longer setting makes it more like a trail bike, but probably climbs way better than a FS trail bike. I've been going back and forth on which of these two (and the Ibis Ripley) to buy as a first FS bike. If you could spec your Trail 429 with lighter components and have the two bikes weigh the same (since the frames are only about a pound apart), do you think the Trail 429 would be as precise, responsive, and "rewarding" as your Mach 4? Do you think you'd still have to try harder to get it to respond to you?
@quintonomous11 - Hey there! Thanks for watching. It may make sense to begin by taking a step back and identify what exactly you want from your new bike. Ideally, what do you want it to be able to do? What kind of riding, meaning time per ride, terrain, speed, are you using it for fun, event/race training or something else? What kind of bike are you used to riding? Once we have more info about what your ideal bike needs to be able to do for you, the choice becomes much easier.
I plan on using the bike for fun rides up and down the trails of Northern California. I don’t race or train, just like to get out there with friends for 1-4 hours in Northern California. I’m used to gravel bikes and I’ve had a Salsa Timberjack for the last year that I love and put a 140 fork on it. It’s set up for bikepacking and trail riding most of the time but when i throw rekons on it, I’m guessing it feels like a long xc bike! I want to feel more confident on my descents so maybe the trail 429 is the move?
@quintonomous11 - A couple things came to mind based on your experience with gravel bikes and the Salsa Timberjack, it's important to consider a bike that complements your current setup. Since you enjoy 1-4 hour rides in Northern California and prioritize confidence on descents, a full suspension bike like the Trail 429 could be appealing.
However, given your familiarity with the efficiency of gravel bikes and hardtails, transitioning to a full suspension may pose some challenges. If you plan to keep your hardtail, complementing it with a bike that offers comfort, good descending, and a solid pedaling platform for longer rides makes sense.
The Trail 429 fits this criteria well, offering a balance of comfort and performance. On the other hand, if you prefer a lighter weight and prioritize pedaling efficiency, the Mach 4 could be a better fit. While it may require more careful line choices on technical terrain, it excels in pedaling efficiency and still offers good descending capabilities.
I recommend exploring both options further, and demo each bike if you can. Here’s a link to the Pivot demo schedule this year. www.pivotcycles.com/en/demos-us/ .
great video!
@dems_mtb - thanks!
I get it. After I got my Epic EVO Pro, I sold my trail bike (this wasn't the plan)
@_al_ex - Nice! It's funny how the qualities we value in a bike change. I suppose this is how people end up with a garage full of bikes!
What tires are you running on each bike? This can make a big difference how the bikes feel.
@lazylearner967 - On the T429 I have Maxxis rekon 2.4 front and rear. On the Mach 4 I have Maxxis rekon 2.4 in the front and rekon race 2.4 in the rear. The rekon race is a faster rolling tire, but it does have a bit less grip.
Have you tried the pivot shadowcat yet?
@ninjabic - Only briefly during a parking lot test ride. It reminded me of my old Mach 6. Seems like it would be a fun bike. What are your thoughts on it?
This is a great comparison! The two bikes couldn’t t be more different, which of the two would you chose if you had a LT enduro bike?
@MrDavecore777 - Thanks for watching! The bike I would choose would depend on what's important to me and what I want out of the bike. In your example, are you keeping your enduro bike? Are you after a second bike that is a fast pedaling machine to compliment with your bigger enduro bike? Identify what's most important and then look for bike options that are a fit.
@@elroobike yes exactly, that’s one option I would keep my enduro bike and get a second fast pedalling bike which allows me to get after work rides say 25km loop. Other option would be selling enduro and getting trail 429 only and use for trail rides as well. I am also 5ft7 am I right in thinking the S is a better fit on these? Thanks
@MrDavecore777 - I feel ya on the bike size, I'm 5'6" on a good day. All of my bikes are size small, but my torso is long for my height so I always have to add a long stem to get the reach right. Depending on the bike and what you want it to feel like, it might be worth seeing if a medium would work for you. But if you're close, you can always make a smaller bike bigger, but you can't make a bigger bike smaller.
I can say that I loved how versatile the 429 is. And unless you have a super efficient bike you regularly ride, like a road bike or hardtail, you may be perfectly happy with the way the 429 handles and can do most things really well for thousands of miles on it like I was. But if you really want a monster of a pedaling machine, you can't beat the Mach 4.