Thank you.As an INFJ I find that I’m full of harsh opinions harmonized by full acceptance of a whole person next to me,while I’m absolutely sure people and my relationship with them can improve a lot…so I’m useless in casual situations and terrible at small talk,they say something to me about the weather,and I answer like a slow robot or nod wide eyed…🤦♀️
I don't like telling people what I think of them because people don't like to hear the truth. If a person actually asks that, they're fishing for compliments IMO, which is annoying af. They're not expecting to hear anything unflattering, and I know me, my honesty is of a particularly brutal nature. I realize this is purportedly a trait of INFJs, I can only speak for myself, and I just can't be that person who spews fake niceties and disingenuous compliments. If there are nice things to be said, of course I'll mention them. But quite honestly, i don't think I'd put much faith in ANYONE that would ask that question in the first place.
Wonderful video, Ren. All points are generally accurate. I think I have begun to push myself to tell people what I notice in them because I know how valuable that is in adding positively to their 'self-talk', and because I know how powerful it can be to challenge someone on a pattern that may be steering them in the wrong direction. Of course, as you said, this is ever changing. Sometimes, these insights are private, carefully analyzed, or held in confidence just in case I may be wrong. I think this is why I struggle to door-slam, since I know people are capable of changing, or of altering their course. It reminds me of a quote you shared with me some time ago that I'm also fond of: "No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -Heraclitus I am enjoying the ease of your new content. Of course, I thoroughly enjoy the more philosophical discussions, but this allows for a more broadened reach. Perhaps, a few ideas? -5 ways INFJs demonstrate love -How to tell if an INFJ considers you someone in their inner circle -Where to find INFJs -Things to never say to an INFJ -Top 5 books to read if you are an INFJ, and a synopsis of each -INFJ quest for meaning: what INFJs find meaningful and how to add more meaning : )
All great points. Especially that about telling people what you think about them. If someone really wants to know, I will tell them what I think about a specific decision they made in a specific situation, but as a general thing, it feels completely illogical to wrap up the totality of a person in a nice little package. It's like gifting someone a large fruit basket just as it's about to expire.
The point you mention about Extroverts introjecting themselves towards others is a very key point. I have noticed this with people a lot lately, I am ENFP and when I find someone I like, I REALLY REALLY LIKE THEM!!. I can imagine how threatening this could be unless their is a clear sense of trust between the two. In fact this could be interpreted as a form of pressure or manipulation. This point could be a huge challenge for ENFP INFJ connections in fact. I told an INFJ this summer that I feel a strong heart felt friendship towards them after 2 years of being acquainted. It did not go well either and I have had to backup realizing I am in an unrequited friendship which is what you say they feel threaten by this extroverted experience I have towards them. I had a similar experience with an INTJ after four years of friendly acquaintance. I told them I feel you are someone I can really trust. They did not like this and they pulled away and said "That's a lot of pressure." I suppose this video is timely about this point. Its odd the differences between our types as I do tell people what I think about them when I find someone I like. Happened today in fact, they are fine with it and I suspect they are an ENTP. I often disclose my true feelings for others when they occur and I feel it to be accurate when it has been supported time and time again. I do not do this with everyone. I am sadly learning not to do this anymore but as an ENFP not telling others how I feel about them makes no sense at all. I have been postulating a non MBTI theory. Western culture is deeply afraid of true intimacy and vulnerability with others. I will remember this idea especially with introverts, the defense against the extroverts push towards them. Thank you. ENFP
Thank you for sharing your observations and experience, @Silent Grove. I (INFJ; enneagram type 4w5) have had an bad experience with an ENFP (enneagram type 7w8). In my situation, the ENFP came on strongly to me during the first ~10 years of the relationship but then started to devalue me. Of course, being devalued and misunderstood is something an INFJ cannot stand happen. I ended up forgiving the ENFP completely but then I had to Door Slam and went full no contact at the ~13 year time-frame. When I look back on the earliest parts of that ENFP-INFJ relationship, the first odd thing that I remember was that the ENFP seemed "closed off" to being vulnerable; i.e. she made little or no effort to share her Fi feelings with me - ENFP's have Te as a conscious outlet for expressing themselves and she did not utilize that as far as I can tell. I remember my response was to just let her be, however, that decision started a seed of mistrust of her. I do not place blame onto the INFJ nor onto the ENFP, however, I now realize how important it is for both parties to share their in-most being if they want their relationship bond to last long-term. I would suggest consciously and intently talking with the others about trust along the way and clearing up any and all miss-trust as it occurs rather than letting it fester.
*5* *Things* *an* *INFJ* *Will* *Never* *Tell* *You* 0:48 *Never* means outside of a deep relationship, drunkeness, or other vulnerable position (1) 1:48 How much they prepared beforehand before meeting you - this is an INFJ defense mechanism - this is *not* a cynical stand-point (2) 3:05 How strong their opinions/convictions are - INFJ's are very conflict adverse and avoid stating the strength of their position (3) 4:52 How much they know about or have picked-up about you - INFJ's need much time to fill-in their Ni scope before it is made more-or-less complete - i.e. defense mechanism *not* trusting the object (4) 7:10 What they think about you - INFJ's know that human's evolve over time and any statement is inaccurate over the long-term (the whole being) (5) 9:57 "What is the weather like in Sweeden (or any other country)" - INFJ's can only endure a very limited amount of small-talk.
Yes. So true! All of it.. I NEED to be prepared, to predict what others might do or say. If I'm going to interact with someone I'd rather avoid, I especially hide my deepest passions about, well, anything! Which is #1 playing into #2. When I DO cross that sacred line where I express how much I know about how the other person thinks and behaves, the person is oblivious and defensive. But it is based on things they expressed casually over and over again.. so of course it is founded, even if the individual has forgotten all the little things they do and say that give themselves away. But we/I avoid making those assertions for the reason you mentioned.. we leave room for growth and evolution in the other person and don't want to box then in, even if they appear fixed. And my god we do NOT care about the weather, Ren! You nailed these!
Very interesting and insightful, I feel that you are most in your element and thus shine the most in such subjects (these last 2 videos for example). Like you seem to utilize a much higher percentage of your natural potential (or strength) and thus are more... I don't know, more powerful or masterful, or whole. I guess I love it when people are truly invested in what they are trying to communicate, a passion maybe that changes the level and quality of the message being conveyed. The words are not just words, they are charged with powerful energy. Ah oui, et le courage des convictions! Haha
Thanks Lolita, that is extremely helpful to hear. I also certainly felt in my element - more at ease and in control. I am also getting more interest with these videos so I think I’ll orient myself in this way from now, at least to an extent. There are always ways to add substance even with “lists” videos.
All pretty much true - but I would only quibble a bit with the final point, only because for me, weather isn't small talk, as I've been fascinated with it all my life (I actually wanted to be a meteorologist when I was growing up!)
Very much on point, Ren! Thanks! I'll just add that for me it's hard to tell people what I think of them when it's negative because I don't want to hurt their feelings even if they seem to be idiots. But lately I've had too much of keeping silent with such people and I'm considering learning (painful as it will be for me) to find warm ways of saying negative things and be prepared that most people will give me a negative reaction. Also every single thing a person tells me usually instantly tells me something about the person and that's how I'm pretty fast at determine who I want to communicate with and whom I don't want to have anything to do with.
Good luck with this, Lina. I do think it's a good strategy to move toward expressing yourself more, even if it means having to confront others' negative reactions at first. Perhaps the reactions won't be as bad as you think. :)
What I think about a person ? It's a very hard question. Cause I don't like to lie, and in same time time I don't like negativity. Have to choose the very good words, to tell something true and positive in same time. I discoreved I am INFJ since few month only, thanks to "Frank James" channel.
Great discussion as always Ren. That point about "soft opinions", very true. Also, the reason I find it hard to opine on people is because people are generally more complex than they appear, there's usually more going on beneath the surface... I compare it to quantum mechanics, where you can't really know, a priori, the position and momentum of electrons at the same time, until you look specifically for it and the wave function collapses... I like to think people are the same, fluid, dynamic, capable of great good or great evil, and it does not do well to pry with insincere eyes on their core personality lest we unleash a monster. I prefer them to make their own reality and not seek external validation, although I realize that some people really do need that type of validation or healthy feedback to function and feel at ease.
As I'm getting older, these senses are getting stronger, concentrated. My waste map of human behavior and expressions are getting bigger, also getting data from the past I've never gotten about somebody.. I now try not to manipulate people, or get on my dark side...but some of it push out.. People are really scared.. So I try not to...
I feel like I have the voices of my whole family (dead or alive) in me sometimes, at the very least my elders but even their parents & their parents parents etc.. because it's been such a domineering presence with my immediate elders. I'm learning to shed the need for approval.
@cass that is a very good point. When I studied enneagram type 4 and INFJ with my psychologists, I came to the conclusion that I have what is called a "super-ego introject" from my parents. This introject potentially interferes with the INFJ's individuation process and comes out as harsh judgements both inwardly and sometimes outwardly. For further reference, the following videos are great. "INFJ: Strategies to cope with our Super Ego" by Wenzes "INFJ 4 Sides of Mind and/or Personality" by Melissa Talks Also, C.S. Joseph has a wealth of material for understanding the superego. "What Are The Four Sides Of The Mind?", by C.S. Joseph Also, the writings of John Beebe are very helpful to recognize the shadow functions and guide yourself to integrate them into your conscious self. "Understanding the Archetypes involving the eight functions of type (Beebe model)" by www.erictb.info/archetypes.html
If I'm meeting new people or part of large group socialising I really appreciate small talk! Because in that situation it's not about how deliciously satisfying the conversation is, it's about someone else stepping in to keep the chit chat going. And, with practice, we can learn things to say in response. (Haven't yet mastered enjoying awkward conversational silences.) Noice vids, thx
I can do small talk, but the weather....blah. Are we farmers? Unless a violent wind storm has blown through town or something VERY out of the ordinary, who cares? I used to be an airport shuttle driver and people returning to town would invariably ask "How has the weather been?" I would ask about the time frame and that would piss them off...as if I was supposed to know how long they had gone. So, I would just say, "Oh, it's been nice, not too hot" and some folks would push me to give them a day by day report. Seriously??
Jonas! Good to hear from you, man :) I still follow your updates on Facebook, hehe. How have you been? I hope you will enjoy the vid! Psssst *whispers* don't forget I have a book out as well ♥
@@RensRoom When I’m allowed back to my ancestral homeland (Ireland) I’m going to trick you into going to the pub! (By “trick” I mean “invite”). You have helped me a lot.
Links to purchase my book on the INFJ are provided in the description box.
Thank you for your support ♥
I put in my amazon cart and forgot to finish order last night. Looking forward to it.
Thank you.As an INFJ I find that I’m full of harsh opinions harmonized by full acceptance of a whole person next to me,while I’m absolutely sure people and my relationship with them can improve a lot…so I’m useless in casual situations and terrible at small talk,they say something to me about the weather,and I answer like a slow robot or nod wide eyed…🤦♀️
No small talk man I find it hard
I don't like telling people what I think of them because people don't like to hear the truth. If a person actually asks that, they're fishing for compliments IMO, which is annoying af. They're not expecting to hear anything unflattering, and I know me, my honesty is of a particularly brutal nature. I realize this is purportedly a trait of INFJs, I can only speak for myself, and I just can't be that person who spews fake niceties and disingenuous compliments. If there are nice things to be said, of course I'll mention them. But quite honestly, i don't think I'd put much faith in ANYONE that would ask that question in the first place.
Yeeeees
Wonderful video, Ren. All points are generally accurate. I think I have begun to push myself to tell people what I notice in them because I know how valuable that is in adding positively to their 'self-talk', and because I know how powerful it can be to challenge someone on a pattern that may be steering them in the wrong direction. Of course, as you said, this is ever changing. Sometimes, these insights are private, carefully analyzed, or held in confidence just in case I may be wrong. I think this is why I struggle to door-slam, since I know people are capable of changing, or of altering their course. It reminds me of a quote you shared with me some time ago that I'm also fond of:
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -Heraclitus
I am enjoying the ease of your new content. Of course, I thoroughly enjoy the more philosophical discussions, but this allows for a more broadened reach.
Perhaps, a few ideas?
-5 ways INFJs demonstrate love
-How to tell if an INFJ considers you someone in their inner circle
-Where to find INFJs
-Things to never say to an INFJ
-Top 5 books to read if you are an INFJ, and a synopsis of each
-INFJ quest for meaning: what INFJs find meaningful and how to add more meaning
: )
Well put!
@@HatTheFatCat Thank you, Hasan.
All great points. Especially that about telling people what you think about them. If someone really wants to know, I will tell them what I think about a specific decision they made in a specific situation, but as a general thing, it feels completely illogical to wrap up the totality of a person in a nice little package. It's like gifting someone a large fruit basket just as it's about to expire.
The point you mention about Extroverts introjecting themselves towards others is a very key point. I have noticed this with people a lot lately, I am ENFP and when I find someone I like, I REALLY REALLY LIKE THEM!!.
I can imagine how threatening this could be unless their is a clear sense of trust between the two. In fact this could be interpreted as a form of pressure or manipulation.
This point could be a huge challenge for ENFP INFJ connections in fact. I told an INFJ this summer that I feel a strong heart felt friendship towards them after 2 years of being acquainted. It did not go well either and I have had to backup realizing I am in an unrequited friendship which is what you say they feel threaten by this extroverted experience I have towards them.
I had a similar experience with an INTJ after four years of friendly acquaintance. I told them I feel you are someone I can really trust. They did not like this and they pulled away and said "That's a lot of pressure." I suppose this video is timely about this point.
Its odd the differences between our types as I do tell people what I think about them when I find someone I like. Happened today in fact, they are fine with it and I suspect they are an ENTP. I often disclose my true feelings for others when they occur and I feel it to be accurate when it has been supported time and time again. I do not do this with everyone. I am sadly learning not to do this anymore but as an ENFP not telling others how I feel about them makes no sense at all.
I have been postulating a non MBTI theory. Western culture is deeply afraid of true intimacy and vulnerability with others.
I will remember this idea especially with introverts, the defense against the extroverts push towards them.
Thank you.
ENFP
Thank you for sharing your observations and experience, @Silent Grove.
I (INFJ; enneagram type 4w5) have had an bad experience with an ENFP (enneagram type 7w8). In my situation, the ENFP came on strongly to me during the first ~10 years of the relationship but then started to devalue me. Of course, being devalued and misunderstood is something an INFJ cannot stand happen. I ended up forgiving the ENFP completely but then I had to Door Slam and went full no contact at the ~13 year time-frame.
When I look back on the earliest parts of that ENFP-INFJ relationship, the first odd thing that I remember was that the ENFP seemed "closed off" to being vulnerable; i.e. she made little or no effort to share her Fi feelings with me - ENFP's have Te as a conscious outlet for expressing themselves and she did not utilize that as far as I can tell. I remember my response was to just let her be, however, that decision started a seed of mistrust of her.
I do not place blame onto the INFJ nor onto the ENFP, however, I now realize how important it is for both parties to share their in-most being if they want their relationship bond to last long-term. I would suggest consciously and intently talking with the others about trust along the way and clearing up any and all miss-trust as it occurs rather than letting it fester.
*5* *Things* *an* *INFJ* *Will* *Never* *Tell* *You*
0:48 *Never* means outside of a deep relationship, drunkeness, or other vulnerable position
(1) 1:48 How much they prepared beforehand before meeting you - this is an INFJ defense mechanism - this is *not* a cynical stand-point
(2) 3:05 How strong their opinions/convictions are - INFJ's are very conflict adverse and avoid stating the strength of their position
(3) 4:52 How much they know about or have picked-up about you - INFJ's need much time to fill-in their Ni scope before it is made more-or-less complete - i.e. defense mechanism *not* trusting the object
(4) 7:10 What they think about you - INFJ's know that human's evolve over time and any statement is inaccurate over the long-term (the whole being)
(5) 9:57 "What is the weather like in Sweeden (or any other country)" - INFJ's can only endure a very limited amount of small-talk.
Yes. So true! All of it.. I NEED to be prepared, to predict what others might do or say. If I'm going to interact with someone I'd rather avoid, I especially hide my deepest passions about, well, anything! Which is #1 playing into #2.
When I DO cross that sacred line where I express how much I know about how the other person thinks and behaves, the person is oblivious and defensive. But it is based on things they expressed casually over and over again.. so of course it is founded, even if the individual has forgotten all the little things they do and say that give themselves away.
But we/I avoid making those assertions for the reason you mentioned.. we leave room for growth and evolution in the other person and don't want to box then in, even if they appear fixed.
And my god we do NOT care about the weather, Ren! You nailed these!
Thanks for your input Eden ^_^
Very interesting and insightful, I feel that you are most in your element and thus shine the most in such subjects (these last 2 videos for example).
Like you seem to utilize a much higher percentage of your natural potential (or strength) and thus are more... I don't know, more powerful or masterful, or whole. I guess I love it when people are truly invested in what they are trying to communicate, a passion maybe that changes the level and quality of the message being conveyed. The words are not just words, they are charged with powerful energy. Ah oui, et le courage des convictions! Haha
Thanks Lolita, that is extremely helpful to hear. I also certainly felt in my element - more at ease and in control. I am also getting more interest with these videos so I think I’ll orient myself in this way from now, at least to an extent. There are always ways to add substance even with “lists” videos.
@@RensRoom I'm looking forward to watching more of them and perhaps I will collect some gems of wisdom here, if God wills 🌺
I appreciate you!
@@RensRoom C'est pareil pour moi kekeke
@@timefortee Tu parles drôlement bien français Lolita. D’où viens-tu? *thinks*
All pretty much true - but I would only quibble a bit with the final point, only because for me, weather isn't small talk, as I've been fascinated with it all my life (I actually wanted to be a meteorologist when I was growing up!)
That is different! I know what he means. Some would never have anything to say, unless for commenting on the obvious present or dreaded weather.
Very much on point, Ren! Thanks! I'll just add that for me it's hard to tell people what I think of them when it's negative because I don't want to hurt their feelings even if they seem to be idiots. But lately I've had too much of keeping silent with such people and I'm considering learning (painful as it will be for me) to find warm ways of saying negative things and be prepared that most people will give me a negative reaction. Also every single thing a person tells me usually instantly tells me something about the person and that's how I'm pretty fast at determine who I want to communicate with and whom I don't want to have anything to do with.
Good luck with this, Lina. I do think it's a good strategy to move toward expressing yourself more, even if it means having to confront others' negative reactions at first. Perhaps the reactions won't be as bad as you think. :)
What I think about a person ? It's a very hard question. Cause I don't like to lie, and in same time time I don't like negativity. Have to choose the very good words, to tell something true and positive in same time.
I discoreved I am INFJ since few month only, thanks to "Frank James" channel.
Welcome to the INFJ world. Frank James is excellent as is Ren, with each giving a different swag to the complicated nuances of INFJ life.
Great discussion as always Ren. That point about "soft opinions", very true.
Also, the reason I find it hard to opine on people is because people are generally more complex than they appear, there's usually more going on beneath the surface... I compare it to quantum mechanics, where you can't really know, a priori, the position and momentum of electrons at the same time, until you look specifically for it and the wave function collapses... I like to think people are the same, fluid, dynamic, capable of great good or great evil, and it does not do well to pry with insincere eyes on their core personality lest we unleash a monster. I prefer them to make their own reality and not seek external validation, although I realize that some people really do need that type of validation or healthy feedback to function and feel at ease.
Spot on...
Thanks Lesley!
Thank you. I’m reviewing your helpful information as I’m coming out of grief and able to learn better.
As I'm getting older, these senses are getting stronger, concentrated.
My waste map of human behavior and expressions are getting bigger, also getting data from the past I've never gotten about somebody..
I now try not to manipulate people, or get on my dark side...but some of it push out..
People are really scared.. So I try not to...
I feel like I have the voices of my whole family (dead or alive) in me sometimes, at the very least my elders but even their parents & their parents parents etc.. because it's been such a domineering presence with my immediate elders.
I'm learning to shed the need for approval.
Ahmein
@cass that is a very good point. When I studied enneagram type 4 and INFJ with my psychologists, I came to the conclusion that I have what is called a "super-ego introject" from my parents. This introject potentially interferes with the INFJ's individuation process and comes out as harsh judgements both inwardly and sometimes outwardly.
For further reference, the following videos are great.
"INFJ: Strategies to cope with our Super Ego" by Wenzes
"INFJ 4 Sides of Mind and/or Personality" by Melissa Talks
Also, C.S. Joseph has a wealth of material for understanding the superego.
"What Are The Four Sides Of The Mind?", by C.S. Joseph
Also, the writings of John Beebe are very helpful to recognize the shadow functions and guide yourself to integrate them into your conscious self.
"Understanding the Archetypes involving the eight functions of type (Beebe model)" by www.erictb.info/archetypes.html
I care about the weather insofar as I am travelling to a particular place and I need to make sure I am prepared for rainy weather!
Haha, same!
So true I wish these insights had been around earlier in my life it would have made many things clearer to me and perhaps saved a lot of anguish.
Beautifully spoken Ren. 9:30
Absolutely on target. Thank you.
This is so true...haven't thought about it until now but that's so me
Sorry I uncovered you t.c ;P
@@RensRoom ha ha I'll get over it...eventually
If I'm meeting new people or part of large group socialising I really appreciate small talk! Because in that situation it's not about how deliciously satisfying the conversation is, it's about someone else stepping in to keep the chit chat going. And, with practice, we can learn things to say in response. (Haven't yet mastered enjoying awkward conversational silences.)
Noice vids, thx
Thank you Caz Bee! Of course, small talk is necessary and can be appreciated as an opening move toward the other person. :)
I can do small talk, but the weather....blah. Are we farmers? Unless a violent wind storm has blown through town or something VERY out of the ordinary, who cares?
I used to be an airport shuttle driver and people returning to town would invariably ask "How has the weather been?" I would ask about the time frame and that would piss them off...as if I was supposed to know how long they had gone.
So, I would just say, "Oh, it's been nice, not too hot" and some folks would push me to give them a day by day report. Seriously??
Spot on Ren!
Thanks Chris!
Ren!
Jonas! Good to hear from you, man :) I still follow your updates on Facebook, hehe. How have you been?
I hope you will enjoy the vid! Psssst *whispers* don't forget I have a book out as well ♥
You made with laugh with the last one
#5: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...And then the polite grin to cap it off! Perfect! XD
They should never be "put on the spot," when one can never know all they encountered prior to engaging with you.
🤔 This is true. Well said.
Renny, you’re the greatest. I laughed so many times - all true.
No u! Thank you so much, Scott ;)
@@RensRoom When I’m allowed back to my ancestral homeland (Ireland) I’m going to trick you into going to the pub! (By “trick” I mean “invite”). You have helped me a lot.
You: They're having some fine weather in Sweden right now aren't they?
INFJ: With furrowed brows; okaaay.
Very good Ren!
Haha xD
😉😄
Ha ha...actually the weather sucks here right now...but I don't want to talk about it 😬
@@t.c9537 hehehehe. Are you sure?😅
@@notthatvashti8127 yup...have no need what so ever to talk about that 😂
So tru man
will tell you what they think of you.. if they have prepared for your question beforehand and knew it was coming, huh :-) Ni, lol
Good vidio sir.
Thanks Anton!
goosebumps...
True
True
True
True
True
What do you think about Moksha I just read it up? I've got a introverted friend that said I should stop learning so much all the time 😃
Hi Jendrik, what's Moksha?
So what is the weather like in France? 😂
Lmao. As you can see it’s very sunny :D
It's heavy and stormy.
INFJ from France, who discovered this video by chance.
@@Elodie_N_INTJ_Analyzes Salut Elodie! :D Je suis vers Marseille.
@@RensRoom Bonsoir, vers Toulouse de mon côté.
Hey Ren what happened to your cat Hazelnut?
Hazel is doing well, Anisa! She’s quite old now (17.5 years old) and so far she hasn’t been in the mood for a video ^^” but soon, I hope.
@@RensRoom thx Ren. I was worried bout ur cat.
OMG I never even noticed that I act like that 🙊😅
Best hunters
Why is shit so hard 😫
🤗❤👍