Curious on how our single and family workers in the US fair once housing, utilities, transportation and food come into play? Watch Part 2 Here: ua-cam.com/video/gAC2TMNbQYs/v-deo.html
@@ntvirtue I can legally own an AR-15 in Germany, actually. Any other freedom that you are concerned about that I might be lacking? Our constitution includes all the freedoms of yours plus several of it's amendments. Please tell me which freedom exactly I am missing.
Im an American engineer living in Austria, I make half the salary I did in the States yet have saved twice the amount of money without changes to lifestyle. That's been my exerience living here for 7 years.
That has more to do with your choices rather than the country you live in. I could do the same by moving from California to Florida. Stop with the hyperbole.
@@no-bozos How is it hyperbole when the person literally said "without changes to lifestyle" He's just reporting on his own experiences. And yes, that may very well be true of a move from California to Florida. I've worked in the San Francisco bay area and it's ridiculous. But that is part of the issue. Just because me and my partner were able to afford a crazy overpriced apartment doesn't make it right and doesn't change the fact that we have a better amount of savings now that we both live and work in Europe (even though not in a super social country).
@@justaname999 - How does ANYONE move from one country to another without changing their lifestyle? Answer: You can't. Thus the term I used. It's the highest form of hyperbole to make comparisons between cultures, locations or eras. Understand now? Where do you get this "doesn't make it right" business? According to whom? You? What is it with people that think their experiences are somehow the universal metric for life? Grow up, and stop being such a spoiled, whiny, brat.
@@no-bozos You just have to take comparable statements from other Americans living anywhere in Europe and you will see that they are not exaggerations. It is hard to see that the USA is not the greatest country in the world. Take it like a man!
What a great and well thought out and documented video. I live in the Netherlands and our system is pretty much the same. Personally, my preference is for the Dutch/German system which offers safety and security especially in the moments when something goes wrong. In April 2022 I was hit as a cyclist by a car that ignored a red light. I had to undergo several surgeries and spent 2 months in the hospital. In November 2022, I returned to work. The fact that all this time my salary was paid 100% and all hospital bills, etc. were paid, consciously and unconsciously ensured that I didn't have to worry about anything but my recovery. That to me is worth paying more taxes and social contribution, so give me the VW Tiguan instead of the Lamborghini 😁
This is exactly how we feel. I recall a great conversation I had with my work colleague once... to paraphrase: "American's often talk about not wanting to pay for other people who make poor decisions or take on unnecessary risk... like healthcare and smoking for example. But I ask in return, what is RISK? Sure, my friend might smoke and they may have greater healthcare costs.... but I like to go downhill mountain biking. He might need to see a pulmonologist but I might need significant orthopaedic care. In the end... stop worry about what other people are doing and just support each other and be kind."
So you like the Dutch system which seems better than the German one. Or you have better insurance than most. In which case you pay premium and can get the same level of comfort in the US too. In Germany your salary stops being paid 6 weeks after your first sick day. After that the insurance will take over at 60%. So you lose quite a bit of money if you're sick long enough.
@@borstenpinsel In the Netherland you get paid max. 104 weeks (2 years) when sick by the Sickness Benefit Act (Ziektewet-uitkering). You get paid 70% of your salary and in most cases the employer supplements it to 100%, but that depends on the Collective Labour Agreement for the sector you are working in.
You can get 100% of your salary paid for in the US also, but you have to pay for it. It's called short-term and long-term disability. For me it cost me $1 a month to get this through my company. I was out for 4 months with Covid and I was paid 100% of my salary. This works for anything. It could be injured on the job or injured outside of the job (riding your bike for example). Edit just as a disclaimer. I don't know if it's $1 a month for everyone.
Loved the video. I'm 30, grew up in Germany, and moved to California at 26. From my experience, it really comes down to this: In Germany, there is safety and security. In the US life can be more fun or "better" as long as you're reasonably healthy and you take control of your career and finances. There is no one to hold your hand or catch you if you're careless. Beware of predatory debt traps. But if you're on top of those things, life will be pretty great. Some people do great in the US system but I think the average person would do better in Germany.
But there always is a passive risk that something could happen you can't avoid, like getting unlucky with cancer or just bad luck, are you secured against that? I would say that I'm reasonable competent with money but I just don't want to worry about all that stuff, i know that there is something to help in Germany and you don't need to get predatory insurance contracts and co for it, i just pay my "tax" and I'm extremely lucky for this system or i would be extremely f-cked right now, so i guess in biased.
@@makuru.42 I have kids so the choice is easy: I stay in Europe. I fought my way out of the gutter in the U.S. and made enough to be comfortable. I don't want that struggle for my kids, and I'm not rich enough to guarantee their future if I take them to the U.S. and as you say, bad luck strikes. So we stay in Europe.
This is a really interesting and very thorough comparison. Having lived in Germany now for 22 years (coming from USA), I really appreciate that different emphasis in each country. In the US, there is still a very strong focus on the individual. In Germany, since WWII, the society has focused on the community, it is the community that is important and not necessarily the individual. Your excellent analysis shows this - all those costs paid „up front“ go towards evening playing fields, taking care of the weaker members of society, etc. All this leads to a more equitable society. Sure, the highs are not as high in Germany (speaking of salaries here ;-)) but the lows are no where near as low as they can get in the US. Approaching my 60s now, I feel far more secure existing in the German environment than I would in the US. And, that security is priceless!😊
These comparisons also lack a bit of context (including this one which is a very good analysis but unfortunately also doesn't include this very important topic): The cost of living. Comparing the incomes side by side is nice and a start, however it lacks the context of what you can actually do with that income without taking the price for everything you need to pay into account. Rent (or property taxes which are much higher in the USA), electricity, food, heating, fuel, phone bills (The average monthly cell phone bill for Americans in 2022 is $114 per month - in Germany it is 15-30 €) etc. These costs vary by location in both Germany and the USA of course, however in general the costs are way higher in the USA. This means that even if the nominal income after deducting all the topics covered in the video might or might not be higher in the end people in the USA still have less free money to spend after paying for all the necessities of life.
Maybe it is like this if you compare just the family or the single person. But comparing like that leaves out the real benefit. The germans take care of their weak fellow countrymen as of where the americans trow them on the street without healthcare or income. What americans cant see is that your country cant be great if it is by trampeling on your fellow citizens. So the german (european) socialsystem is about caring for all not just yourself and that is the real benefit.
Socialism = The means of production and its distribution are owned and regulated by the State. There are no Socialist countries in the EU. Paying more into Social Welfare programs does not make a country a Socialist one.
@hatsross1295both not wrong and both not correct. Socialism is a blanket term that includes all ideologies that work towards overcoming capitalism, liberating the worker class and strive towards a society thatbis based on equality and solidarity. That can include anything from communism to social democracy. But Germany isn’t an anti-capitalist state and doesn’t call itself socialist. It is a free market democracy with a strong emphasis on social welfare.
That is not what she is saying. She is adressing specifically the American viewers who are conditioned to believe that any social progress is leading to that "bad socialism" because "capitalism" is the "greatest". Socialism is a fear-mongering word for GOP, right-wingers, and capitalists. Just say it, and they run. There is no definition behind it. So, no need to exchange on what socialism really is.
Really great video! I would like to contribute a couple of ideas on improving the comparison: 1. It is obvious that single Steve has a lot of headway over Max - so you should probably factor that in in terms of accumulating assets (Steve will start as a family man a lot wealthier than Max if he saves his extra money). 2. As someone else said - look at childbirth / maternity leave / Elternzeit. 3. Urlaub vs. PTO etc - Max and Mila working 10 to 15% less than Steve and Stephanie per year. And one final thought: All people in your comparison earn way above median income. It would be very interesting to see the comparison of a more "average" couple.
I think she was doing an approximation of her family, which may be similar to other individuals/families considering a move. She might have done Stephanie and Mila, but the video would have been that much slower.
RE the "average" couple: that is a very good point, but quickly answered: the US has less deductions from your salary, and more expenses from your take-home pay. Especially health insurance is the big thing here: you pay the same percentage of your salary in Germany (up to the cap), whereas you pay the same actual amount of money in the USA. In the end, the US system favors people with large income and punishes those with small income, whereas the German system punishes those with small income significantly less.
I live in Germany, and what I really like about the health system here that you have already paid for your health cost before being sick. That means, whenever you feel sick, you straight go to the clinic without thinking about deductibles. This subtle difference makes huge effect on one health.
Actually you pay for everybody else getting sick, also those who have never and will never contribute anything at all......and you never get yourself what you paid for in health care. As an average person who is taking care of their health you are constantly overpaying.......way overpaying! This whole system is sick and it should not be mandatory to have health insurance. I'd rather pay for my medical bills by myself. The common misconception is that medical expenses are skyhigh. An operattion however does not cost multiple thousand Euros like many people think. It costs a few hundred.
@@nobodymister5435only takes one accident and you're screwed. Chances are you're gonna have to go to the hospital once in your lifetime. And in the US, that single incident can quickly cost more than what a german contributes in healthcare related taxes their whole lifetime.
@@u-q-6236 I totally agree when we're talking about the US. In most of Europe that isn't the case. In Germany we're paying about 15 % of our gross income for health insurance, the employer pays another 15 %. When you're self employed you pay the whole 30 % by yourself. A Chemotherapy for example costs about 15 K €, Brain surgery costs about 12 K €, Bypass surgery 19k €, the removal of your gall bladder costs 1500 €. An average person would pay about 10 K € anually in health insurance premium. However if there was no obgligatory health insurance membership your employer could pay you more wages in the first place and you could easily save up your own medical fund.
@@nobodymister5435 you are forgetting that the main reason why hospital visits are so cheap in germany is that hospitals are staate subsidized and paid for with public money. In the US hospitals are run like a company in order to make profits. If you would abolish the current sytem then you would have prices like in the US. Also its a social system, its in the best intrest of the country to have a healthy population. If you dont like the public healthcare you can still get private healthcare its a lot cheaper if you have high income but its gonna become very expensive once you get old.
Salary of 67.000 EUR in Germany for a 23 year old engineer in Germany and 2 years of experience? I don't believe you can find that here in Germany. For starters, German engineers take longer to graduate, so they get out of school around 26-27 years old in average. Starting salaries range from 40k to 55k for entry level positions, depending on size of the company, position and even geographical location within Germany. To reach that kind of salary here in Germany you have to work many years. I have been working in Germany as an engineer for 6 years now ( I am 38 now) and work for a large construction company which is affiliated to IG Metall and pays good salaries. My colleagues, which recently joined the company range from 25 to 33 years old, all of them Germans. Neither of them make that much money, they might be close to earn that in a few years time and also have a 35 hour/week contract. Please no offense, but these numbers seem to be off
The fairest comparison I could find would be go to through Glassdoor or Indeed since they are self reported wages. I would wager that there is a pretty significant range at each of these salary levels. My husband Jonathan also works as an engineer in the cycling industry and I had him proof the numbers too. In his experience, the 15 year experience seemed low, but the fresh-out-of school salary seemed high.
I work in compensation management at a large German company, and I can tell you from experience that these self-reported numbers from Glassdoor and Indeed tend to be statistically insignificant due to them being self-reported. For Germany, you should rather look at official statistics from the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Benchmark data from large HR consulting firms tend to be even better, but those are of course expensive to acquire.
@@TypeAshton Glassdoor salaries are, in my experience, massively inflated over what real life salaries actually are. And part of that is due to using the average value. It only takes one well paid individual to artificially raise the average salary. The median value would give a better indication of typical salary levels. Or even look at the hourly wage, because I'm sure workers in the US work much longer hours with fewer vacation days than their European counterparts.
I graduated with 22 as an engineer in Germany. Of course, I did THW instead of military. The government wants you to shoot other people rather than get an education and earn money. I wasn't above 67k until the second half of my 20ies though, and that was after I left the country.
It never ceases to amaze me what US Americans call socialism. When I recall the writings of Marx or the definition of socialism, I cannot comprehend what is called socialism in the US. The German welfare state has nothing to do with socialism.
@@gaborbakos7058 No, socialism is something else. Socialism is by definition the precursor to communism. Marx and Engels assumed at the time that a society cannot be directly transformed into communism. They assumed that there would have to be a transitional phase to actually existing communism. This was to be socialism. In theory, communism is characterized, among other things, by the fact that there is no personal property, no religion, no political leadership, only equals. Money in its current form should also no longer play a role. Socialism should pick up societies where they are and lead them to communism. This is why socialism has been different in every country. There has never been real communism anywhere and I don't think it will ever happen. Western European welfare states neither aspire to communism and its goals, nor do they reject capitalism. So they are clearly not socialist. Obviously, hardly anyone in the US seems to know what socialism really means, but everyone uses the term inflationarily for any economic or social form that does not correspond to that of the US. I don't want to discuss whether the German way is better or worse than the US way. I think both have advantages and disadvantages. But I deny that Germany is socialist and I get annoyed when such terms are used to defame other countries without people even understanding what they mean
The reason this is the case is because the Red Scare is still echoing in the older generations of Americans. Everyone was demonizing Communism which socialism was lumped in with. America was basically having a witch hunt. People were jailed, killed, and just plain life ruined for espousing or supposed to espouse those beliefs which is supremely mental when one considers the First Amendment. So, anything that is controlled too tightly by the government gets labelled 'socialist.' Public education has also done very little to properly explain different governmental styles such as Solidarity. The people in power like their sheep as blank as possible as it makes filling them with the 'right ideas' much easier.
As an American myself I can say with experience that in general, we are big fans of using words to make points without knowing what those words we use mean.
I have had the privilege of living overseas for almost 26 years of my total 68 years of my life. I have been telling my friends and family for many years now, that even though people in Western Europe pay nearly 48% of their income to taxes and social programs, in the end, they have greater peace of mind, for themselves and their children. And, it may turn out the buying power of their money is as good or greater. I think you just, with good details, proved my hypothesis. Thank you for what you do with this channel. I just discovered you and am so glad I have.
@@knerduno5942 Nonsense. Nobody in "Western Europe" pays 48% and sales tax is a whole different thing which has nothing to do with deductions. This narrative of confusing consumption with taxation is typically found in rightwing and far-right groups and reveals a lack of understanding taxation at all.
@@bobbwc7011 Its not just taxes, but all sort of deductions to pay for those socialist goodies like healthcare. So no, it is not nonsense half you income is deducted for taxes and other stuff.
Thank you for such a thorough video! You covered the differences very well! My husband was offered a job in the US, but we made a similar calculation and decided to stay in Germany. An important point for us is that we want to have more children, and it is very expensive in the US. You've already covered the topic of childcare and benefits, but there is also the cost of pregnancy and childbirth itself. Here in Germany, we paid 0 for my complicated childbirth, and I received excellent medical care. Also, here in Berlin, there are numerous programmes for families, such as family centres with fun activities, music classes for babies, playgroups, etc., most of them free of charge. It creates a greater sense of community and benefits the families, especially the poorer ones who cannot afford paid activities.
Dont forget the sick days you can use per year per child, the state enforced PTO and the ability to go into parental leave to be at home taking care of your children, a coworker did that for 2 years and some months and then came back into the company
My great grandmother came from Germany, leaving two siblings behind who passed away in the last decade at the ripe ages of 98 and 104. The long term care situation is so much better over in Germany. The best most expensive long term care plan (short of being a multi millionaire) in the USA doesn’t come even close to the coverage my Tante received in Munich. Germany does a much better job at preventing poverty than the United States, and no one goes bankrupt because of bad luck. Excellent video. Thank you.
"Germany does a much better job at preventing poverty than the United States" Hmm,i dare to say Germany (as in any other socialist country) is doing a god job leveling the differences,not preventing poverty."Preventing" and"leveling" are 2 different things,please do not confuse them. Those benefits comming from other taxes are at politican diposal.It depends which givernment is elected and hw it change the legislations.I do not know situation in US,but in Germany you must wait for a doctor even 2-3 months to get appointment.If you acuse pains you may go dirrectly to a hospital,but a visit to a doctors is an aventure( due to long covid i want to have a heart ultrasound image for my child- i need to wait almost 3MONTHS for a procedure of 30-35 minutes ; please do not get over excited about german medical system). For your very old relatives the system helps,but for a family with over 100k brutto/year ,paying over 12k euro/year and still did not get what it need in time,the situaion is not so bright.And keep in my that those over 12k euros/year are only the employe part-> double it and observe what si the actuall spent on health system, put it together with the benefits ( good only in acse of emergency) and ...yeah..i will not be so enthusiastic ( i live in Germany since almost 12 years,these are rela numbers,facts)
@@bogrusu6112 Yea, not an accurate reflection in my opinion. It so very much depends on where you live, and what doctor you need. I was new to Cologne, here in Germany that is, and I got a regular appointment online in three days time for a really good specialist (Otolaryngologist), with regular public insurance; might I add no waiting time (thats very rare though). I had the same experience thus far in Munich, Frankfurt and Berlin for different GPs and specialists. An agreed-upon issue is getting shrink sessions, there are normally several months or even up to a year waiting times depending on specialization and region. And Germany definitely does do a better job at preventing poverty. Look at the stats. Poverty in the US is MAD. But Germany isn't close to perfect by a long shot... The Netherlands or Scandinavian countries are on a better track, with far smaller populations though.
Won't last as all the German illegals over tax the system. In the USA if your poor or illegal you get health care for next to nothing but soon as you start making extra money over 50k/yr then your punished with huge premiums that negates your extra pay unless the company you work for pays it. Whoa to the self employed.
I think what also needs to be mentioned when talking about the salaries, as you have also started to do, is that in the US you can be fired from your job any second and basically without any reason. In Germany you will be pretty safe in that regard. Not to say it doesn’t happen, but it is much harder to do in Germany than in the US for a company. Also, another thing that I feel like needs to mentioned is that in the US it is important to get a University education, whereas in Germany there are apprenticeships available, where you can still make a pretty good living afterwards. It is a system that makes it more accessible to anyone, no matter what their parents can afford or where they come from. This obviously can’t be included in those salaries but it has a huge impact on the possibilities that you have in Germany provided by the government.
Agreed. Alot of those comparisons take into account what's payed into the various systems but not what you get in return. I'm fully aware some of those statistics might be hard to come by and in absence of detailed data ballparking it and then handwaving is fair enough. It's a youtube video, not an academic dissertation after all, but some questions I'm curious about: 1. What % of their annual income do people lose due to gaps in employment by hire and fire policies? Statistical average ofc, since it can't be applied to the example of Steve & Co, who are currently employed. 😉 2. The retirement plan: Would putting ~3% into a 401K actually bump your retirement payment to the same levels the german system does? How much would they have to put in to have the equal outcome would be the big question, rather than just making them pay the same with unknown output. 3. What's the % of income and so on lost due to things of maternity or sick leave which tends to be unpaid in the US (mostly)? How many unpaid vacation and sick days do people in the chosen demographics typicall take? What's the impact? 4. Normalize the income to average annual hours worked. How many hours per year do people in the US put in to earn that annual salary vs germany (including overtime hours, vacation days, etc.). Still, very very informative and I would *love* to see a part two with more details on how life in germany and US impacts Steve + Max and their families. Big thumbs up!
@@TypeAshton it’s interesting to read all the comments from Germans expressing such fear of job loss. I’d be interested to know more about that. It really seems to be a mentality difference between Germans and Americans. Why the lack of confidence in their employability? Do all the employment laws make it difficult to change jobs? I think most Americans have confidence in their ability to do a good job and not get fired! If the company itself goes under (which happened to me), if you have marketable skills you should have no trouble landing a new job. In my case, the new firm turned out to be far superior to the failed one.
@@sitraahra1778 a 401K is your own private retirement savings, which often the employer matches to some extent. You manage the investments, so it can go up or down depending on whether you keep it in conservative or risky investments. This is separate from government Social Security payments, which are mandatory and based on on an input - output model. I don’t think you can really generalize about the other issues you raise. They are going to vary greatly based on the particular employer, employee, state laws, etc.
@@annamc3947 Thanks for the clarification regarding the 401K. I thought it was a way to pay extra into the state retirement system to get more out later, not simply getting extra benefits for your investments into a private retirement fond. Regarding the others: Yes, I'm aware that this will vary wildly between employers and sectors and reliable stats are (presumably) hard to come by. I was simply curious about averages in that regard.
Excellent video Ashton! But as others mentioned, what would be a real eye-opener is if you apply your findings to none university or low skill workers. Take a cashier at your local Rewe or a kindergarten employee and I am quite sure the benefits of living in Germany will become much more obvious.
@@TypeAshton It would be great, I was arguing in some (one of this kind) under video comments and use our tax calculator for minimum wage single mom. I used maternal and parental leave as an income, while for US single mom I used nothing. Roughly in 5 year period it gets to thousands of difference for poor lady in my country (also I used paid vacation same way) Of course (surely not) I use only guesses for US minimum wage single mom based of comparison videos, not so high quality sources as you did.
@@TypeAshton I would appreciate that type of video. My general idea is that the poorer you are, the better the EU gets, but that there is also a point where you get rich enough that the US is better. This video does a good job of describing the "average family" but I'd like to know how it is for a min wage worker, an average worker, and an upper class worker/manager/owner.
I think that here comes another important, altough (kinda) non-economic factor - how a better financial/social status of low income families influences things like crime rates, etc. - I think that when someone is living in a family where there is certain level of safety/stability (not having to worry, that someone will die or go bankrupt in case of sickness, disability, etc.) it has significant effect on the future of that person, whether it is commiting a crime out of neccessity, anger or whatever. Outside of pure economic, individual benefits of a person living in one system or another, what is the general influence on the society, and how (in the end), this benefits or harms life of said person. I think that this is where lies a significant difference between a highly capitalistic and more of a welfare based state.
Great video! Just a small correction: 13:35 Solidaritätszuschlag is paid by everyone above the threshold income, not just those living in former West Germany.
Your video on this very sensitive topic is great. The big takeaway for me is not only the bigger employee rights (and therefore safety) and "ease of mind" in Germany but the feeling of more freedom because of it. What triggers me most in the general debate is the US-American inability or unwillingness to differentiate between "social" and "socialist" policies, to differentiate between a European socialist welfare state and the socialistic dystopia of the Soviet Union and its satellite states. Social welfare is based on the social consensus of our societies. We may sometimes moan about high taxes and high contributions to the "Sozialversicherung", and we may also point out profiteers of the system, but we also acknowledge that if bad fortune befalls us we may have to rely on the system. E.g. When one of my sons was diagnosed with Asperger's the administration paid for a "Schulbegleitung" (a person who went to school with him to help him with his social problems in school), after-school care, and once a week a special program where a group of autistic children could hone their social skills. It cost about 6000 Euros every "complete" month (no holidays, no vacations) for five years so app. more than a quarter of a million Euros. Since then the Arbeitsagentur (unemployment agency) financed several programs to make him fit for work and get him an apprenticeship so in 2 years he will be contributing back to the system. I don't know these costs but I'm sure we couldn't have afforded this on our own financial means. To watch my son grow from a troubled kid with no outlook of ever finding (and holding) a job to becoming a responsible adult who is able to stand on his own legs is priceless.
I'm happy for your son to achieve all that. I know that autism can take many different forms and that some people need help for a long time, especially with things like taking care of your flat etc. (because, your job can be your interest and you can just get lost in it because of that). And social skills like staying on contact with people even if nothing important is going on, calling people, looking at them, understanding joking/irony/sarcasm... there's so much. And I really do love that the state does help everyone to be able to achieve something, even if living at a "care center" and working in a more protected environment (still has it's downsides, but it also does offer security) or even more social security in regular jobs etc. So, again, all the best for your son and that he is able to continue to achieve what he wants to achieve in life. 🙂
i always have to laugh (a really sad laugh) when americans (intentionally?) misunderstand the difference, when they oppose our _social_ healthcare while they each have a _socialistic_ security number, as well as police and firefighters (whom they don't personally pay themselves), etc
Hi there - First, thank you so much for watching and for enjoying the video. As you caught in this video, the use of the title with "Socialism" in quotes is a tounge-in-cheek word play into how many Americans view Universal Healthcare, Tuition-Free Education and other programs that go along with the social democracy and social contract that we have in countries like the US. For me, the recent debate on Universal Pre-K really hit home for this. Those who supported it in Congress were labeled as "radical leftists" despite 4 states already offering such programs.
This was a fantastic, clear, and objective comparison. As a childless person living working in Germany for three years now (and thus pays German taxes on a German salary), with significant education debt from the U.S., sometimes I really feel like I have the worst of both worlds from a purely economic perspective. However, I still feel like I have an overall better quality of life in Germany through greater social and economic stability & cohesion, a more sensible and less corrupt political system, far lower violent crime rates, far greater worker protection in the law, and a much greater ability to travel, which I personally value. However, as you mentioned at the end, the one aspect I would have liked to see which significantly alters the comparison is the enormous difference in the cost of housing and transportation. Germans can "afford" to have a significantly lower take-home pay because comparable housing anywhere in Germany would require perhaps double the salary in the U.S. for such housing in any U.S. city. I would say my 1 BR apartment in Frankfurt is perhaps twice the value of my terrible studio in Washington, D.C... and I still pay less in rent here.
well interestingly i live out in the rural in germany semiclose to munic and my inlaws live rural semiclose to chicago and we have much more expensive rent here than they would there
On the other hand this housing/rent argument also can go the other way around. I do think that americans with an above average income can and do afford larger houses. But I do agree that a comparison of purchasing power has to be done as well when comparing the income. In addition to that: child care is not free throughout entire Germany. It can be up to 4k/year. But I do understand that there are so many factors influencing this comparison. Hence, it is very very difficult to get an exact number and I did like how you went through these important stuff step by step. I guess the best way financially is to grow up and study in Germany and move to the US, hm? ;)
" objective comparison"? I would say the author tried this.Still not a complete picture ( very difficult to do a "real" comparision). Regarding child care: i've understood the costs in US are extremly high.But in Germany they are not so low as presented here.The parents must pay minimum 100 Euros/month/child-> those + 6k euros/year for a family with 2 childerns became actually (in best case!) only +3k. If you add to picture that in slightly bigger cities is difficult to get a place for your clid care,then the problem became quite complicated( you must put on a waiting list your child 1 year in advance to be sure you catch that place to child care) . If you are lucky enough to be family of doctors then you are forced to hire a nanny(not much time left for chlidrens) .I know case (in a very small town in Germany ,not a big city!) which pays 800 euros/month for a nanny ( plus regular child care costs) .As you see the difference decreases (is not so spectacular anymore).If i add the fact that the example of a fmaily with 2 childrens needs and uses this state child care system ONLY for 8 years (at most) ,but it pays the taxes for 40 years,please do the math who and what is winning.
Let's not forget that the US has a much higher home ownership rate. I'm a bus driver in manhattan for the MTA by wife also works for the state. Twenty five we bought a house 125 it's now payed off and we live rent free. The house is value at about 500 at present.
On the other hand, American families typically own their homes. I’m now 61 and my house purchased in 1997 is paid off. I still have to pay property taxes, but they can only rise 2% per year. If Germans are paying rent for their entire lives and don’t accumulate generational wealth, that wouldn’t be acceptable to many Americans.
Great video! Two things that you could have factored in when comparing the families: 1) cost of childbirth, 2) the cost of staying home with the kids before the age of 2, or cost of daycare if you can't be a stay-at-home parent for 2 years.
Day care in the usa if so costly. I spent 88k in 10 years. Health care is crazy. This is the only country you can lost what your work for your whole life just by getting sick. Americans need to wake up and get their head out of the sand. Try learn more about the rest of the world. Your find out that we Americans are falling behind a fast rate. Those whole have a problem with video are ignorant and uneducated. Not even at par with the person who made this video.
I agree those are great additions for follow up video! I also geek out on these comparisons having lived in the US and Germany and wondering what the bottom line might look like.
Cost of childcare is a major issue living in the US. However, we can list other things that are so much better. what is better? well, that is the question socialists and capitalists will never agree on, for the next 1000 years. Priority is not the same. example... 1.Main focus of capitalist: make your own way. More opportunity for building wealth faster than anywhere on earth. 2.Main focus of socialist: Social net that will cover close to 100% of all services. free education, free healthcare...etc.
I am amazed how much detail you have put into this. Me and my family moved from Germany to the US for a total of 4 years as expats. Meanwhile we are back in Germany since a few years. You are right, the differences may be marginal in the end. It really is not about right or wrong or better or worse. However, growing up in Germany I personally prefer the "peace of mind" safety net here. If one's family manages to stay healthy and well-employed at all times, everything is perfectly fine in the US. Much less so if that isn't the case. Well done!
"Marginal." My wife is a doctor, in the USA she would make $250K a year. I'm in IT, I made $176K the last year I worked in the USA. In Germany we don't make $200K combined. Our after tax earnings are 1/4th what they could be in the USA and also real estate is massively more expensive in Germany than in the USA.
@@eustacemcgoodboy9702 i guess if you're in the top 10%, you have it financially better in the US but that comes at a cost, a cost of your fellow citizens, like your wife's Nurses.
@@eustacemcgoodboy9702 yeah but some people aren't that high earners and they'll be fucked if they can't pay if their child has cancer. I'd rather pay my taxes instead of plannin ahead for any unexpected shit to come
Great comparisson video! I have certainly learnt a lot :) One thing that comes to mind for me is transportation cost. Living in a (Western) German village, I can reach my job, doctors and shops for everyday needs by bike or a very short trip by car. If I worked in the city, I could buy a monthly pass for the train or bus, which both are reasonably clean and comfortable to take. If I had children, they could walk to elementary school or get a subsidized bus ticket to get to secondary school in the next town. The car-centric sprawl of suburban America however forces you to drive everywhere, so expenses for fuel and maintenance are a considerable issue, I imagine. Walking or biking are often impossible, public transportation is mostly non-existent or run-down and unpleasant. Maintenance of a significant road network in a relatively low-density area, generating less tax-income per squarefoot, is also a burden on the community as a whole. Overall, I personally would rather stay in Europe for the freedom from impoverishment and fear of losing all security, than to move to America.
Definitely a hidden cost, as an American having a car is expensive even if you only use it occasionally and commute to work via bike/etc. Since your legally obligated to pay insurance on the car and gas and possibly pay for a parking spot depending where you live along with probably other costs I am missing. I live near the areas bike path that goes throughout our urban region and can use that to get to work on my electric scooter. Having car-centric sprawl also can force students to take a bus to school or have their parents drive them instead of them having the liberty to bike to school and gain more independence.
Hello, I am always considering taking a loan to one day go to usa and live there. Could we have a conversation on how life was and why you chose Europe ? Thanks, Omkar
Thanks! Your work deserves recognition of more than a „thumbs up“ and subscription. You are the only Americans living in Germany whose channel I still subscribe to. Not that I disapprove of the others, but I had so many subscriptions I couldn‘t keep up and have dropped channels that do not serve my primary purposes in watching UA-cam (learning French, news, and documentaries). Sorry, I‘m a bit late, but congratulations on the new member in spe of the family!
Wow, thank you so so much for all of your generous support. We are thrilled to make it onto your regular watch-list of videos and sincerely appreciate the discussion you add in the comments section to our videos. We hope you and your loved ones have a great start to the new year.
@@Petersvensson22 Not really. It is a one-time donation. Many UA-cam sites have Patrons who donate far larger amounts on a regular basis. I know of at least one UA-cam channel where the top tier for Patrons is over $1000 a month - and it has more than just a few at this level. OK, I have to take that back. The channel I was thinking about has a top tier of „only“ €535.50 a month.
@@michaelmedlinger6399 You are comparing apples with oranges. I never mentioned anyting about Patron. The usual donations that I see to a specific video is around 5-20$. Although the title is very clickbaity "American Capitalism vs German "Socialism". There is no socialism is europe. Germany is even ranking higher than Usa on The Heritage Foundations Econimic Freedom index. Could have called it "American capitalism vs German capitalism" but that does not sounds as exciting.
@@Petersvensson22 The word "socialism" in the title here is contained by quotation marks. It acknowledges that what so many Americans describe as "socialism" isn't in fact Socialism.
American expat here. I moved to Germany in 2012, and since arriving I have had 4 operations, amounting to several weeks of in-hospital care. My total cost, practically 0€. I have never even seen a bill for this care. I am on German public health insurance, and AOK is my provider. The peace of mind that comes with this is amazing. Overall, my life in Germany is inmeasurabley better than it was in the US. I live in southern Bavaria, in the foothills of the Alps. Crime and drugs practiacally do not exist here. The air is clean , the water pure. I can go outside without thinking about my safety. Yes, my take home pay is quiet a bit less than if I had stayed in the US, but my job is secure, I work no overtime, my employer never bothers me after hours or on weekends, and I can work 100% remote. I get 30 paid days of vacation per year, plus up to 15 paid holidays per year (depending upon the year and if the holidaty falls on a weekend that year). I have up to 6 weeks of paid sick leave with 100% pay, and then it decrease to I believe 60% of your pay. I am a software engineer with 15+ years of experience.
@@zuzanazuscinova5209 I pay taxes and I pay for medical insurance, so no the citizens did not have to pay for me. Also, Software Engineers are in high demand where I live.
@@barryvandertas2234 I agree. My wife is a nurse (they don't make nearly enough compared to the US, but this is one way the cost of healthcare is kept in check). Our combined gross income is circa 100k per year. We live a good life here, and still have money left over every month to save for retirement. If we lived in the US still, we would probably be making double that amount, but while living there I never seemed to be making "enough" just to keep up with monthly living expenses. I was a soldier for 7 years before entering the civilian workforce, so I know how being poor feels. The American people have been duped into thinking that they have the best life and most freedom in the world, and this is coming from an ex-patriot who served his country unconditionally for many years. This is simply not true any longer, maybe it once was post WW2 era. I could go on ranting about this forever, but I will get off of my soap box now, lol.
@@bsrhoadI am a little late. I am a software engineer originally from Bavaria and have been living in the US for the past 20years. I would like to connect!
Thanks for this thorough dive into the different systems! My only suggestion would be to compare the average cost of living and purchasing power and not just the disposable income. I think this would be a better/fairer comparison than just converting the currencies. Afaik, the cost of living is generally higher in the US, so even higher income doesn't necessarily mean higher living standards.
depends on where you live, if you live in NYC, LA or san fran, 220k salary wont get you that far. but if you make 220k and live in the mid west of america, you are making like top 5% of the state. live like kings.
Great video as usual! The results were about what i expected, the young healthy American makes more money, but the German one has the social security safety net, but as soon as you look into families the table turn fast. a friend of mine emigrated to the US in her tweens, but was forced to come back here because she got unexpected pregnant with twins after her first two children. Even tho both parents were working they could not effort to raise 4 kids there. Here in Germany she never got a new job, she stayed at home with the kids and her husband is working a normal blue collar job and they are doing as fine as anybody else...
Young, healthy and well educated. I doubt that it is still that great in the US if you look at someone with a lower income. The US is a great country to live in of you have the money in my opinion, but I would not want to be there if I was struggeling in some way.
@@j.a.1721 Well, as an immigrant who came to the USA with 0. I do not believe I was going to land in Germany and they were going to offer me a job making 5 thousand dollars a month. Without a college degree in stem? no way. In America illegal people make that much painting houses. Which illegal people? the same ones who are getting deported all the time. How do I know that? I work with immigration. When people think about America they think about my mother a person with no education living in NYC. She does not have to live in NYC. She can live in Hazelton PA and get the same services for a fraction of the cost and own a house while working 3 days a week in a factory. Yes, health care. Well she is a cancer survivor and she speaks no english at all. Can you do that in Germany in 5 years? I highly doubt it.
@@johncmordan I am glad it worked out for you and your mother like that. Making 5000 right after immigrating there is impressive. But in general, social mobility is higher in most European countries than in the US. So I wonder if your example is really a typical one? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index
@@j.a.1721 Imagine you dont speak the language. They drop you in Germany or they drop you in the USA? You are telling me there are more resources in Germany to insert you into society? Is is easier? can you work illegally in Germany? I came to the USA and was working illegally then I got my papers. Can an immigrant do that in Germany and make a decent salary? You guys only view professionals moving into Europe but what about a Dominican with no training? no education? no visa? can that person get ahead easily in Germany make a decent income while finding a way to become a legal resident?
@@johncmordan tbh I don't want people immigrating illegally and working illegally at all. If I was a refugee I would definitely prefer Germany over the US though.
I, as an American engineer, just spent a month in Europe, including Germany, and found the expenses far less than in USA. Meals in restaurants were about 30% cheaper. In talking to many Europeans about housing costs, my impression is that Europeans pay half of what Americans pay. Also, both my wife and I caught colds and were both seen the same day by a doctor and the cost was only 40€. Oh, and we felt safer in Europe. I'm retired and on Medicare, but I still pay $200/month for supplemental insurance. And I have to take cancer drugs costing $13,000 per year. Those drugs would cost 3 times more without the insurance. Since 99% of adult Americans must have a car, transportation costs could be considered a tax on one's income.
@@dezafinado not a lot of Midwestern rural towns hiring $150k+ a year mechanical engineers. There's some, but most are clustered in Boston, Denver, Houston, etc.
@@jayceh You're right but madhiker is retired so he/she can live somewhere less expensive. The cost of living in western Europe has been more expensive for decades (with exceptions) but in recent years the US has outpaced them. Although we have more natural resources, monopolies are running wild.
Yes, eating out and renting / buying property is rather cheap in Germany (also compared to neighboring countries, except the eastern ones). Especially with the weak EUR and strong USD (in comparison), it has become even better in the past months.
@@svr5423 the strength of the doller is peged with energy prices. The cheaper oil gets the weaker the doller gets. 2 years ago the doller was less than 80% the value of the the euro.
I'm American and my wife is German. We married in Germany, and lived there for many years before moving to the US. It's very difficult to compare the two systems with equivalency. For example, Im an experienced engineer in the aerospace sector, I would take a 50% pay cut to work in Germany. You will probably see the same trend for doctors salaries ... There are also a lot of nuances and detractors in the German tax code, for example, if you were to work a bunch of OT to get ahead, you could easily find yourself in a higher tax bracket, and end up giving a majority of that extra to taxes. Also, both partners don't pay the same percentage of taxes. Usually the one that makes more pays less taxes, and the one that makes less pays a higher percentage. Also, unmarried workers haul the freight in terms of tax liability... I've heard of rates close to 45%. Also, my US company pays my health care premiums. I pay around $300 for insurance, and a small amount on medication etc. Health care cost for me don't represent an appreciable quotient of my overall salary. I recognize that some American families struggle to afford medicine, but that isn't an issue for my family. The German system does a good job maintaining and taking care of a middle class. There is more security in terms of safety nets if you loose your job, or if you have a child, etc. Everyone can get some medical treatment if they get a major illness regardless of your employment status or how much money you have. I agree with a majority of your points, but I think you are looking at the cross section in middle of the bell curve and making a direct comparison. I think if you look at poor people, you are much better to live in Germany. Middle class may be a wash, or slightly better in Germany depending on a few variables... The comparison starts to fall apart for high paying professions, and some other special cases.
I would be interested in comparison of Real estate cost, and general quality of life. I think these two topics would even be more difficult to compare apples to apples US VS DE.... Cheers
Everything correct, if you are rich and healthy things work very well in the U.S. It is just that you can not predict that everything remains like that, unless you really have a lot of money accumulated in real estate or your bank account. One point you should take into consideration is that the real value of money decreases with the amout you already have. If you are offered a game which doubles your earnings with a likelyhood of X, but also makes your income zero with a likelyhood of X, this makes the income oyou can expect in average remain the same. But as for quality of life, this just slightly improves with twice the money, while it gets a catastrophy with no money at all, so the game would in average reduce your quality of life. From European point of view life in the US is a bit like such a game - if everything works fine you are a bit better of (significant better of in terms of money, a bit in life quality) , if things go bad you are really worse of in the US.
What an incredible video! I love how your approach is always data driven and scientific without being to theoretical AND you are able to present the facts clearly and easy to comprehend. Love these kinds of videos, keep on the great work.
Oh yes, THANK YOU for that work! I am really impressed! Parts of the family here and over there it is allways a thing! Especially because it changed so much the last 20 years! Und ja, Deutschland ist KEIN sozialistisches Land (:
Totally agreed! It's nice to see an objective look at complicated issues without dumbing them down yet making the points understood to the average person. In a world that is continually becoming more polarized, it's nice to see some high quality signal in all of the noise.
YOu are double counting. If I pay for my education that means my parents did not pay for my education. You can not assume I paid for my daughter's education and then assume my daughter also paid for her education. That is double counting. Either parents pay for their kids education or kids pay for their own education. You can not have the cake and eat it too.
Really excellent comparison. I’ve been living in Germany for nearly 24 years now and have been trying to make this calculation … roughly … in my head, as long as I have been here. This is the most comprehensive comparison I’ve seen yet. There is just one more aspect I think that you should include to make your comparison even more comprehensive and representative: property taxes. In Germany, I think that it’s fair to say that we pay a lot less in property tax than Americans do. While we’re at it, it seems that mortgage interest rates have also been historically lower in Germany than in the United States. OK, the latter topic is actually related to a comparison of purchasing power, but I think that the property tax comparison relates more directly to your comparison, and I would love to see your comparison augmented with this aspect… also because I think that it would tip the scales even more in favor of us Germans 😉
Рік тому+4
Property Tax in Germany is about to change it will be higher in 2025
@ It will still be nowhere near what they pay in the US: Property taxes in the US are used by local government to finance schools and other local government services and are usually based on your total value of all of your property.
@ Not really. They need to change the calculation basis to to achieve a fairer system (while as always the definition of 'fair' is relative). While for some it will be more expensive then, for others it will become cheaper. The total tax revenue per municipality from this tax after transformation is not allowed to be higher than it gas been before.
@ That will actually depend on a lot of factors and will be different for different locations. It depends on how the expected rise in value holds up to the real development for each individual property. 1) Grundstücke, deren Wert stärker gestiegen ist als den alten Berechnungsgrundlagen zur Folge: Yep, für diese Grundstücke werden die Steuern steigen 2) Grundstücke, deren Wert sich im erwarteten Rahmen entwickelt hat: Die Höhe der Grundsteuer wird sich praktisch nicht verändern 3) Grundstücke, deren Wertsteigerung unter den Erwartungen geblieben ist: Für diese Kategorie werden die Steuern nach dem neuen Berechnungsschlüssel tatsächlich sinken. Wie sich die Situation für jeden einzelnen Grundbesitzer verändern wird kann daher stark unterschiedlich sein.
In 2018, the last year we paid property taxes in a suburb of Albany, NY, we paid over 8,000 dollars. This money was used to finance the local government and school districts, which in Germany comes out of general taxes. I agree that it would have been appropriate to add that to the calculation.
There are tons of videos on this subject, and your video is the best of the best. That's because of the obvious level of research you've done on the topic. It's not just "scratching the surface" kind of research, but real, good and deep research. That shows, and is why I love your videos so much. Thank you !!
Amazing! Greetings from the "Schwabenland". As a native German I can tell that all the information given is absolutely accurate. I am impressed how you as an American know the German systems better than many native Germans. Since you were askin the audience about feedback: I think you made an excellent job. It was very comprehensive, right on point, a good level of detailing! DON'T CHANGE YOUR STYLE! IT'S PERFECT AS IT IS! And since I am thinking about moving to the United States, this helps me the other way around. Thanks for all the effort! I saved a lot of time doing research thanks to you.
2 year bachelor degree earns 67.000 euro ? In germany? No way you gonna earn that much so early in Netherlands. If this is true, im going to move to Germany. Then so weird a colleague of mine is German and moved to Netherlands. Master degree and does not by far earn that much.
@@HermanWillems I agree with you. Salaries are lower in Germany than what the video says. Also, I don't think it is realistic to say that people in Germany get a degree so young. I have the impression that it takes much longer to get a degree in Germany than in the US.
Very interesting topic👍 For next week I would love to see a comparison between the average working time per week, the hourly wage and of course like mentioned a overview on the costs of living in both countries
There is another guy im sporadically following called NALF on youtube. And he has compared the american grind to the German Feierabend culture a lot. If love to hear what the Black Forest Family thinks about that!
Next week's video is going to be aimed at picking up where this video left off and trying to take into consideration "cost of living factors" such as housing, transportation, utilities, etc... However, I do think a future video would be great on touching more on hourly wages and the affect of at-will employment laws in the USA.
Watched your video from beginning to end - truly appreciate the immense work you have put into this! Apart from tangible pay there are untangible differences: 6 weeks paid vacation vs 10 days, social cohesion, quality of roads and public services, and finally peace of mind. Things that made me decide not to emigrate the US 40 years ago. There is no ideal country, however Canada and Northern Europe get pretty close. All the best to your lovely family!
Thanks for mentioning the different amount of vacation. Actually that means the German salary per hour is about 9% higher - but it also raises the cost for vacation because you can stay away three times as long and the hotel bill will add up to more :-)
@@wora1111 And it is not only vacation; sick leave is at least as important. I think it is so important to recover well from sickness before going back to work.
@@Edda-Online I know. I had several operations and the corresponding recovery periods. But I probably never would have thought about it before it became relevant
I paid about $2500/child/month in Boston for daycare. Our monthly insurance costs around $700-$800, but for a family to be fully covered it need to reach $12K within a year, which is simple to do since one night in the hospital in Boston will run between $10K-$18K. My son got sick and needed to be in the ICU for two weeks, and the total bill was over $200K. If we didn't have insurance then God knows what we would've done. Also being higher on the income bracket our combined taxes is close to 30% anyways...adding 8-10% to 401K easily tip us closer to the 40% amount but we had to be mindful of any hospital bills and other nasty surprises. I think you underestimate the cost of college and tuition funds. There is no way you can get away with only $5K/year for a child, you would need closer to $10K/year per child at this point since annual college Tuition costs around $60K in private schools not including room and board. With room and board you are estimated to pay around $80K/year...four years will $300K worth of higher education. With inflation going the way it is now, by the time my youngest (in 18 years) the higher education cost should double that, closer to $500-$600K for four years. AMERICA where profit rules.
Buddy you hit the nail on the head. You can lose your home in this country so easy. I lived in Germany and my family are German as I’m American. Even going to the doctor in Germany with out insurance is so much less then usa
I'm 51 year old german. Free kindergarten and school. Then an apprenticeship, free technical college entrance qualification and free study. What society paid for my training, they now get back through my work and benefit from it. I am very grateful that a child from the lower middle class was able to do this. I have a friend with an autoimmune disease whose medication costs more than her income. Thanks to these drugs, she is still able to work, which otherwise would not have been possible for a long time. A person generally generates more value within a society than what he earns in money. Furthermore, she can take care of her aging parents and does not live on welfare. These situations are a win for the whole society. In my sociotope there is a dictum: _Do we really want end-stage capitalism, like in the USA?_ Unfortunately we are on our way...
Also, the numbers crouched in here are for the more fortunate folks who earn decent money. If you look at the average earnings, it's less optimistic for US workers. Average US earnings are about $36k pa for young adults and about $50k for 30yo who already got some work experience. Im Germany it's about €39k pa (before taxes) for "
@@Jackassik very good points. We have a winner takes all mentality and poor people are seen as a source of income by large corporations that petition the government to pay them for servicing the poor. Homelessness, prison, housing, medical care, etc...are all good examples of companies doing well by charging ridiculous prices at our tax payers expense. I remember NYC put homeless people into fancy five star hotels in NYC and charged tax payers $500/night for each homeless person during COVID, while I was struggling in my $2000/month studio while being taxed at 35-40%. Thinking how my tax dollars are used really depresses me.
Education costs: is clear they are higher in US.According to your estimation it will costs 600k.For 100k euro brutto/year in Germany the taxes are around 25k/year.Multipply with 40(how many years one is active and paying those 25% average taxes).You'll get 1 mil euros in taxes ( at least).You still get aprox 500k euros saving ( after a life time work).And then let's compare what you get for this money: in Germany you'get what is offered.No chance to get something too good ( but with some "luck" you may get even sub-mediocre quality of education- no chance to chose what you need/want.I'm not fmailiar with US system,but i presume ( with sime real luck) you may get for those money the chance to access some (at least) acceptable level of education.If i may compare the top university from US with german ones( in100 top ONLY 3 german universities,the best german only on 49th!) ,then you'll see my point: you get what you pay for ( do not expect good quality at smaller prices -not yet invented)
I don't mind about videos being 40+ minutes long, especially when they're well made like yours. I'm going to watch the second video as well and then share both with my friends here in Brazil, as well as in USA, Canada and Germany. Vielen Dank und liebe Grüße!
Great Video, but one thing that is somewhat missing is the average cost of living in the USA vs Germany. Which after a little research is surprisingly higher in the USA than Germany, especially Groceries surprised me, which I would have thought would be cheaper in the US.
Coming from the US, my groceries always seem so cheap in Germany, even with the inflation factored in now. Eating out can be pricier though (especially if I order a drink since water is not free here)
You made a good job! I work in Finance and Accounting and know how to deal with Financial Reporting and how to calculate payroll with salary, wages, income tax and social contributions. I only got in touch with american payroll six years ago when I saw how it was done there in the U.S. And I never met anyone who completely understood both systems. For the German way of tax and social contribution calculation I was really impressed about the brilliance and clarity. There are a huge number of different parameters to consider and of course, they can vary a lot from case to case. This was the first video I saw from your channel. You won a like and a new subscriber.
WHAT AN AMAZING VIDEO! me and my husband is moving to Sweden from Texas for the reasons of security and piece of mind. To explain our choices to family and friends here in the US is very difficult and this video is explaining in such a detailed manner -exactly why we choose to move. Sweden is very similar to Germany regarding the costs of living. And since we are not in the salary "bracket" of a engineer by far - for us with a smaller income the difference in the piece of mind and social security feels even greater with our move.
I shall warn you that it is not all green meadows. Swedish health care is notorious for not being able to keep up with the flow of patiens, with queues stretching 1-3 years sometimes for acute treatments. The queue for a rental apartment in central Stockholm is around 20 years. Personally I moved from Sweden as I was tired of this while paying 60% tax on my engineer salary. Germany is much better compared.
"And since we are not in the salary "bracket" of a engineer by far - for us with a smaller income the difference in the piece of mind and social security feels even greater with our move." which is exactly the reason why socialist ran states or countries are consistently having worse economy and less growth
@@wasdwasdedsf Yes, exactly. There is a reason why successful companies and rich people are leaving Sweden. And the past 10-20 years there has been an increase of 1 million new immigrants living in Sweden, using the welfare, but are not contributing as much. Socialist economics simply doesn't work because eventually you run out of "other peoples" money, and Sweden is already halfway there. Don't expect great health care, retirement and elder care in the future. Expect massive privatization to solve the issues.
Im not sure you are correct in the case of Sweden and especially Nordic countries. Sweden has always had better GDP growth than for example the UK. They have the third lowest state debt within the EU (around 40%, EU average is around 93%). Of course they must have issues and problems with immigration, inflation etc like others but their economy is in much better shape than many other Western countries.
I think Karl is one of those who would prefer the American model. If you have a family Sweden is still a very good place to be. The problems in the past ten years is because of the goverment has moved towards less taxation and more privatization because of people like Karl whining about the high taxes. If you are healthy and have no kids, you have to pay high taxes for sure, but the Swedish/European model would work fine here as well if taxes just went up slightly. I would also like to know what successful companies have left Sweden, that is not something that has been discussed in any of the economic newspapers (who certainly would take any decline in Swedish economic performance very seriously). I hope @AnnaErsson find happines in either Sweden or any other European country they move to. Welcome!
This is an amazing video and well researched. As a German moving to the US in my early 30s about 8 years ago there is a lot more to take into consideration though than money. My corporate job at an international financial institution is NEVER safe. There are quarterly lay off days, with people getting anxiety about it. Severance is way different. Your example of health insurance in the US is also very generous. My spouse and I have an OOP of 4.4K a year. Then you talk about seeing specialist etc. It’s ridiculous. The way of life is different. The cost of living is different. And then anxiety around your job is different. Sick days are different. Maternity leave is different. I doubled my net salary moving here, but that doesn’t mean anything. Not to mention 401k contributions etc. And I don’t even have student debt (growing up in Germany). It’s the quality of life that’s better.
ok if US is that bad why dont you move back to Germany at 38 private health care will cost you about 700 EUR a months means close to 9000 EUR a year. German good docs all moved to CH US and Norway...but hey if you are sick...they wont be that bad the specialists.
As always, so well researched, I just love your videos! And I couldn't agree more with most people here: quality of life, vacation time (and quality), healthcare costs etc. Are things that I'd never ever exchange for a bit more income. It happens so fast that you need medical attention, and those bills add up quickly.
while those "special events" (illness, job lost, etc) don't happen, it's nice to have a little more money, but when it happens it has dramatic effects that nobody can handle by himself. applying averages to these factors is like gambling in a casino or a lottery (with the opposite sign before the amount): for many people there is no big loss in reallife or a win in a casino, but some people will encounter it and then have the jackpot in the casino or go bancrupt in reallife. but if everybody takes a small part of it all the time (like every insurance should do), those few who have extreme events will not "fall out of society". eg health insurance: for 30 years, i got nothing back from my (reasonable) contributions, but during the last decade i overcame two cancers and other health problems, and it didn't financially change my life at all since the only thing i had to pay myself was less than 100€ per year for prescription drugs and a total of 700€ in a decade for several hospital stays and rehab (10€ per day for food and room). any "statistical average" of those costs is meaningless when you have just a little more money while "everything works well" but live with the daily fear of losing a job and good health insurance and suffer other consequences, all at the same time. _eagerly waiting for the next episode that will tell us how much money will really be "left over", after starting with relatively minor differences at the end of this episode and then needing to pay for food, rent, utilities, transport, insurances (besides health), etc_
@@Anson_AKB Same situation here. And it is very comforting when the only subject you have to think about is how to get well again, everything else being taken care of. There are times when you can and should give to the community and then there will be times, when you have to appreciate them giving back.
Hi! Loved your video. Like many other people in the comment section I would love to see the same comparison for lower income individuals/families, especially considering how much money is needed in each country to hit a certain minimum standard of living. Also it would be great if in the next video you could include/apply shocks (e.g. longterm unemployment, health crisis, general economic downturn) to these examples of yours. I think it would be very interesting in the case of lower income families.
I was looking for this type of comparison for a while. The closest to it was the one by the Young family in Denmark. This is so well structured and easy to understand, thanks for the research and the effort. It's appreciated.
Great comparison. One thing just made me wonder: the German family didn’t have to pay for child care as they lived in Berlin. However Berlin is quite unique on this regard. Most families do have to pay for their childcare. The cost varies a lot depending on age, siblings etc. just like the US. We have kids of 5 and 2 and pay 351 € for both per month. Greetings from your neighboring „high“ Black Forest.
Well, us comparison was made with colorado. As to not offend anyone in either Berlin or US. ;) Can't have it all. I was still amazed by the €250 you get for a child. Thast what 2 childs gives me in sweden. And I have to pay ~€170 for childcare for 2 children. So, that payment really only goes towards that. Childcare costs are based on your family income though. So someone might pay less (but never more for 2 kids).
Love it. Now this is an example of someone with a college degree (or one in the family with a college degree). An example of someone without it (plumber, nurse, server, fast food chain employee) would be interesting, especially someone considered in the US a "low-skilled worker" (for example something considered an entry level job, yet there are many people staying at that stage).
Plumber, nurse or both high skill jobs in Germany, certainly not with as high pay as mechanical engineering, not even bio engineering pays that well it seems.
Again, a great video! I’m also interested to see a comparison of the less lucky people in the country. Such as: unemployed, sick, disabled, etc. And indeed it’s interesting to see what can be bought with the money you make. How expensive is ‘life’ and how happy could you be for the lucky and less fortunate people in the countries. E.g. ua-cam.com/video/FuZ5WO8xoks/v-deo.html
I've seen a video, camparing the wages Mc Donalds workers in the US and -I think it was in Denmark. Low skilled job seems to make it impossible to live a healthy life in US cities
@@betaich You do not need to learn less in Germany than you do in other countries. The difference is just how you learn the job. There is a lot other jobs, too, that you learn in the aprenticeship model in Germany that you need a college degree in the USA.
Great analysis. As someone who was a single worker in Germany, I would add one more MASSIVE perk of living in Germany. I never needed to buy a car. I only needed to pay ~500 euros per year for mass transportation. $500 in the US gets you a parking spot with no car.
yeah, car insurance is more expensive in the USA. And as you mentioned, you might not even need a car in Germany, which makes it a lot cheaper. The German family would likely still need a car, but the single German guy could probably do without.
That's true in terms of a car. I stopped owning one 10 years ago since I live in an environment with perfect public transportation. Also, owning a car is a problem as well due to the time consuming traffic in the inner city and around where I live. However, I grew up in a less populated German area and can relate to people who need a car. PS or want a car.
I lived in a town in the US much larger than the town I now live in Germany and never had to pay for parking. Literally anywhere. And for me to get an annual ticket for the zones I would need to cover for work would cost me 2000 euro per year with DB. It would also take me an hour to get to work as opposed to the 20 to 30 minutes it takes me now. From the calculations I have made, relying on S-Bahn and U-Bahn for intra-city travel would only be slightly cheaper overall. But I have never calculated inter-city or inter-country travel to be cheaper unless you buy your tickets 6 months out. I like the flexibility of being able to jump in my car to get something for my wife at the grocery store and just go as opposed to going outside and waiting for 5 to 10 minutes for the next bus/train and then the same on my way back. YMMV
@@danshigley6638 Yes, it actually makes sense what you said at the end. It's even more complicated in some German areas where you wait way longer than 10 minutes for the next means of public transport. On weekends you might be even isolated without a car. Calculating is important but it becomes less significant once you notice lack of life quality or worse.
Ashton and Jonathan, As usual I enjoyed this great made video. Having lived with children in both countries here some remarks. Retirement: Comparing the 401k to the German Rentenversicherung you can compare the cost but the products are completely different in nature. The money I paid to the German Rentenversicherung is spend immediately to pay for the retirees. It’s gone! What you get is the promise that future generation will do the same thing if they can. Due to the aging of the population we in Germany know since the 80’s that this isn’t a realistic scenario. The reason why we didn’t change it, is that it’s a good system for a majority of older voters. On the other hand, my 401k is mine. Additionally my employer matches up to 10% of my contributions basically raising my salary by another 10%. You know this is common for skilled workers here in the US like shown in the example. Another point is inheritance. If I pass away, my spouse gets in the US my full 401k. In Germany she doesn’t get more than 55% in ideal condition. If my wife and I both pass away early, let’s say being 65 having made our whole life contributions but no or little withdraws the 401k is transferred to our beloved children. In Germany the money is gone. Vanished to people you don’t know. Kindergeld: The Kindergeld is not necessarily applicable for this example. Kindergeld is the source of help for Families earning less than 80000 Euros. Families with a higher income profit from better tax brackets called Kinderfreibetrag (de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderfreibetrag). The Kinderfreibetrag works pretty much the same as in the USA, so for mid to high earning families both countries are pretty much the same. You can't apply both, so it seems for me that there is a possibility that you applied to many deductions for the German family. Childcare: I agree that childcare is way cheaper in Germany. It´s though typically not free. I lived in Mannheim where I paid in the range of 300-400 Euros. Freiburg has also no free childcare. Berlin with a left government is a big example. But taking Berlin as an example is like taking San Francisco as an example for the US. This seems especially for families odd. Even in this areas families typically don't life there if they don't have to. Most people with families I know life outside of Berlin which is then Brandenburg with different regulations. Another point is that it's hard to get a full-time place in the KiTa and even then, you have to pick up children way earlier then in the US. Health insurance: I pay for a similar plan like you have shown also BCBS here in the US 280USD for the whole family. Unemployment: The unemployment benefits are caped in Germany by amount and duration. You don’t get more then 2031Eur per month (24000per year) for only 12 months. Taking Max salary of nearly 100k this is 24% for one year. This system is terrible for high earners. I’m engineer myself and learn it the hard way. My wife takes care of the children and I have a solid salary. Better then Max. I once lost my job and thought I can use the unemployment insurance to have some time to find a new job. When I found out that our income would be reduced by 70% I had no choice but to get a job as fast as possible. I learned that also in Germany I need a solid emergency fund. Don’t get me wrong. Germany is a great country and one of the best places to live. Comparing the US to Germany is like you complaining in one of your videos that the countertop of your kitchen is not perfectly matching to your floor. This are luxury problems. Though the general trend between the two countries is in my humble opinion, that Germany is great for middle to low-income families. The US becomes more attractive the more money you make. The examples you took are imho in the range of a break even point where it’s no strong advantage for neither of the countries. So, examples well chosen. Anyway I wanted to highlight some points that I think have to be considered. Luke both
Really good assessment. One issue though is that for the family assessment, the big pre-school expense is only temporary for 3-5 years depending on family specifics. The income growth is also much steeper in the US than in Germany as per your research and will probably perpetuate through retirement. At the end of the day, they are both good systems but the US tends to generate more wealth per capita overtime.
@@yuritarded7350 yep and if you keep your job when we have recessions. This analysis was great but a key fact is the analysis is based on if the individuals keep their jobs for 15 years.
We did the math. Raising children in Germany is way cheaper than back home. Have you seen baby formula prices in the US? Costs for education and Healthcare? We earn significantly less in Germany but somehow still manage to go on vacation to another country 30 days a year.
@@BobTheTrueCactus you get paid time off and you can't use it for more than a day for fear of getting fired..🤪 if you get sick it gets taken out of your PTO and then you are f*cked! 🤣
@@BobTheTrueCactusvery few Americans get 30 or more days of vacation. When they do, it's usually only because they've been with their company for 20+ years.
I lived in Germany for 16 years and I’m very familiar with my system. You did a great job, and I will share your video with all of my friends who complain about just this topic. For some, it’s almost a grounds for divorce. :-)
As a Dutch version of Max, I'm happy to pay a bit more taxes if that means I don't have to spend hours looking into all those things seperately and comparing private insurance companies to see who can give me the best deal.
@@robertmanson4439 And how far do you get with these 10K a year if you should find out you have a chronical disease or an accident that your plan does not cover? Sure, you may be lucky and get through life without major health issues - but there will always be those who are not. Who is paying for them? Not your problem as long as they die in silence?
Hi Codex 404, but you will have days off to relax and see Italy, Spain or the US for a few weeks a year, while your US counterpart will only have one week off after a full year of work. And you will probably work 36 hours a week, while the US engineer works 48 hours a week to please the boss, to enhance his career and without any guarantee that it will work out. And if you want a career change or get extra study to get a nicer job, you can, with little costs, while the US engineer cant because he doesn't have spare time nor the money to pay for it. Compared to the US the Netherlands and Germany may have a little less luxury, but also less stress.
@@dreamdancer8212 You describe a case that happens once in 1000 cases. And even in the US you can insure yourself if you want to. But in Germany you pay for everything and everyone, and I want to make my own decisions about my money. I would like to see the Americans if they had to pay the welfare payments for every illegal migrant and refugee. That is exactly what is happening here in Germany. If you work 40 hours a week in Germany as a simple craftsman, you only have a few hundred euros more in your pocket than someone who hasn't worked for years. That's what makes many Germans so angry. You pay electricity, housing, social services for all people, even for the young people from Syria who have been living here for 7 years and have nothing better to do than attack our police, stab people and give a shit about our set. That won't work in the long run. TThe people here are getting angrier.
So in a nutshell, America favours people keeping more of their income, but also taking more responsibility for their own needs whereas countries like Germany favour everybody paying more of their income to the government and the government then taking care of people's needs. There are pros and cons in both systems. I personally don't love the idea of the government having full control over what they consider to be how my needs should be met. I like the Australian system, which falls a little in the middle. The government provides a safety net, but that's all it's meant to be - a last resort. Generally, people who can are encouraged to take care of their own needs through the tax system, for example maintaining private health insurance rather than relying on the public system means you pay less to the medicare (public) system. In this way, people have more of a choice if they want to invest in a Lamborghini or are happy enough with the government-funded VW. Those who can't afford a lambo still at least have a car (to use your analogy). It's the same with retirement, where a % is prescribed to be set aside in a retirement fund, but at least you can choose your fund, or even create your own fund if you want full control over those investments. And again, there are tax incentives to set aside more than the minimum should you choose to do so, as well as a government-funded pension for those who could not afford to save for retirement. I think it strikes a good balance between a fully individualised system like America, and a fully socialised system like Germany. Also, as a side-note, engineers in particular far out earn your examples from America and Germany. So I think I'll stick with the land down-unda :D but a very interesting video.
Very timely insights as a Brit living long-term in Germany. Because of the compounding nature of - well - everything from stress v. peace of mind, the cost of debt, plus the constant uncertainty over time of "am I making the right choices at the right time" - this is a great starting point as thought experiment let alone a comparison. I can't believe how much work you put into it 🙏. It made me realize how good we have it as both my kids (born in Germany for free) are now heading to university here. I also benefited from the fruits of years of contributions when the company I worked for closed in my 50s - at an age that it can be difficult to bounce back from. Again, the great system here "caught me." There was appropriate transitional training and as I started my own business, startup grants that effectively covered my salary for another YEAR while I got everything up and running. Like some of the other comments, I'm particularly interested about business owners - I wonder if the received wisdom of "US is best" is also flawed in that case taken over time for the average business owner (kleinunternehmen) with an employed partner? What difference does it make depending on the gender of each of two partners? (Just to give you a challenge. 😉)
Thank You for putting such work into this presentation. Well Done. I am born and grew up in Munich Germany and have close family there. I live in Chicago for the last 30 years. I moverd there when I was 29 years old. There is one important factoy to be considered; what fits one best personally! I started a business in Germany, and after I moved to Chicago did so again. As to business opportunities there is a large difference. It simply is easier to start a business or even be self employed in the States. It is even easier to fail and start over in business in the US. (Been there done that) I understand that is not for everyone. If some prefers the comfort and security of employment on a W2 income, you may have more safety and security overall in Germany. No doubt paid sick leave, vacation, empoyment termination laws and so on have their place and I did appreciate those in Germany. However, income upward mobility is much more limited in Germnany. Or in other words, less risk. If you like higher risk in life with the possibility of a higher reward, I’d say the US offers more opportunity. So, there is no good and bad, lower or higher. Like most things in life its not black and white. In addition you need to find out where you are happier regardless of money. I simply found the US to be a place more suited to my personality. When I critisize the not so good things in the US I am doing it out of LOVE for this place. Like, hey, lets learn from each other in what each place is great at. So when people say “if you don’t like why are you here?” I respond…because I want to contribute to improve by learning from each culture. And that goes both ways. There are just as many things Germans can learn from American’s and vice versa. To me personally, I couldn’t have accomplished what I did in Germany. Even today, crossing socio economic and classes in Germany is way harder than in the US eventhough much less obvious and very hidden. And there is the jalousy thing. When you park a nice fancy car somewhere in Munich I was called “Bonze” “Kapitalist” and all kind of names and cars often got keyed. Same thing in Chicago or New York, nobody cares or you get compliments and people congratulate. Don’t take the later too literallly. I am just attempting to explain a feel or general drift here. These things are hard to explain and easily misunderstood and misinterpreted. There is NO JUDGEMENT on my part whatsoever. Just observations.
Great comment, Gerhard, spot on. I'm German and 25, but comparing the two countries, my brain says Germany, my heart says USA. I just don't get a thrill from living in Germany. That doesn't mean I feel the thrill from having a high risk of bankruptcy in the US, it's more about the people, the manners, the environment, as you said yourself. I lived in Canada and Portugal for some time and both made me on one hand appreciate some German things I love (like bread...), but also realize that I don't feel fulfilled in the German lifestyle. I always thought maybe it's because our generation was spoiled and young Germans are taking good things for granted, but seeing you coming from a different Generation feeling similar to me is great to see. I think people should care less if they make a few thousand more or less in a country, but rather see what their heart says, where they feel home. Living in Portugal taught me that money isn't even that relevant if the rest is right. The lifestyle makes up for everything, numbers don't matter that much.
@@drchtct I understand 100% of what you mean. I felt the same way. Sometimes it's not measurable which is better. The USA just simply seem to be a better match to my character and personality. Sometimes we are simply not born in the place we prefer. For me definitely I was able to fulfill a lifestyle which I couldn't have in Germany. And that does not have necessarily to do with money. It's hard to put in words as a "culture" is all the things as a whole. Its not possible to define in words like "better". It's a feel. For me, I never regret for my decision. I also know that some people do. And that tells me there is only one way to find out. Try. And...yes I miss the bread.....but I appreciate it like never before when I visit Germany. Don't follow the money. FOLLOW YOUR HEART. That rest will follow.
Great video and analysis! I lived in Germany for a while and actually considering moving back there :) One surprising thing is that senior mechanical engineer earns 99K EUR on average. It's higher than an average senior software engineer salary, but maybe also depends on location in Germany. Your analogy with Lamborgini is spot on :) When I lived in Germany I broke my clavicle bone and needed surgery. The recovery room wasn't like in a Holywood movie, but the doctors were very professional, I got to stay an extra night in the hospital, and in the end didn't have to deal with deductibles, out of pockets, or see a bill with how much everything costs. I just had to pay 30 euros (10 for each day in the hospital) and that's it. I can't imagine handling all the financial headache when you're trying to recover (couldn't use my right hand for 6 weeks). And 2 weeks paid time off work was a breeze, I just had to bring a note from the hospital.
I also don't know any senior engineer earning this amount of money. Even in Baden-Württembergs IG Metall collective agreement at top rating they would earn max. 94 k €/year. Thoses I know earn 70 k €/year. There are a view experts, those irreplaceable ones, which may earn way more. Even glasdoor gives the average of 80 k€ of senior engineers. But even if the Patient isn't that high, I neuer would like to crack my head beeing ill or how to pay education of my children.
There are also a few things which weren't considered in this on Germany: 1) "Arbeitgeberanteil" is not just for pensions but actually all social contributions - basically the employee costs the employer a lot more than in the US - it's irrelevant when you only look at what you "take home" but if you look at the greater picture it means the Germans already pay way more for insurance than it seems. 2) It's also important to add that the public health insurance does NOT cover everything. There are a lot of exceptions where you have to pay on your own. 3) All Universities in Germany/Colleges charge tuition fees. They are pretty much non existent for public universities but can get ridiculously high aswell on private colleges. It could be assumed that the standard tuition fees are between 400€ - 1000€ per year. I had to pay 240 per term on my University 4) Pensions are absolutely terrible in Germany. In the end you get about 30%-50% back from what you payed into it. That percentage depends on how great your income is. In the US you get a lot more back when retiring. When you take these things into consideration then Germany comes out worse and this doesn't even take living expenses into consideration. Now what if you compare electricity costs, fuel costs, food costs, rent then the US comes out way ahead but that would make for another video I suppose.
I worked for a decade in the USA as a r&d director. Created my own company in Germany before that (acquired) and then a new company upon returning to Germany. A bit out of your salary range, but when comparing with USA friends we are so much better off with kids in school and Uni plus healthcare and pensions… so so Much Better.
Great video - you did a fantastic job on trying to compare in great detail. The only factor i feel you missed is the days worked per employee. Germans not only have more vacation days but also paid sick leave and even can take days off to take care of their sick children - without having to fear to lose their job because of taking those days off despite being entitled to. I think this stability also contributes to stable income and society
I suspect that the numbers would also look very different if we were talking about a low-wage worker (such as retail or food service), not mechanical engineers. The social systems in Germany reduce the inequality that is honestly pretty brutal for poor Americans. Poor Americans cannot typically afford the luxury of a 401(k), or even health insurance.
@@ronansan While there are some gaps in some states, the ACA covers the vast majority of low income Americans for free. The data on medically induced bankruptcies was true at one time (and may still affect some middle income Americans), it should be much lower now and in the future. (To be clear, the insurance is free, medical procedures still cost at the levels covered by said insurance).
@@ronansan In terms of retirement, that's not quite as bad as it seems either. As mentioned, SS/FICA is regressive, but that's only half the picture. The payout is extremely progressive. An average index is calculated based on the average payment over 35 years. At lower incomes the payment received is 90% of that average (higher than Germany's 70%). At higher incomes the marginal percentage of the payout drops to 32%, then 15%. Like the pay in, the pay out is capped. This why she said the replacement percentage varies widely. I am not saying that it is easy to be poor in America, it is definitely not. We can and should do better. But many of the arguments you see online are willfully misleading. I do find it interesting that the most regressive tax is never mentioned in that manner. State sponsored free education means that those who did not go to university, and who typically make less over their lifetimes, pay for others to gain the knowledge to earn more than they do. Is there some benefit to all? Perhaps, but you'd have to prove it benefits the university graduates less than those who did not go to university. I don't think that's the case, even accounting for differing amounts paid into the system. Therefore it is a regressive tax.
This is a great video and a mechanical engineer is a good choice for comparison considering the college educated target audience. But engineer salaries are in the top 10% so anyone making less would be doing much better in Germany. It would be nice to see the numbers for high skilled working class jobs like electricians and low skilled working class jobs like waitresses/short order cooks, maids, janitors, and retail. It would be enough just to list the benefits everyone receives (Medicaid and ACA will figure more, difference in vacation time will be much greater) and give the final numbers.
high skilled workers get taxed to death here in Germany I have been here for 4 years. it's almost better to be low-skilled you get taking care of. 41 percent tax for us highly skilled it workers is not fun. who cares about hospital when you never get sick and the pensions here are some of the lowest lol
The answer is easy. 12,50€ min wage incl. health insurance, unemployment insurance etc, in 7,50$ you have nothing pretty much. So a medical emergency can destroy you, not only will come Costs at you for treatment but you might also lose your Job.
Yes very true I come from Romania and the contrasts there sometimes resemble those in the US Minimum wage is 600€ gross and around 330€ netto But I know a lot of people working in IT or as business development guys that earn 2300-3700€ or above netto or even more… so huge difference based on job Also, being in Belgium for 4 years I was really surprised to see that working extra hours in a gas station can bring you 2600€ netto whereas an IT guy developer or tester only makes 2100€ netto (plus hospitalisation insurance and company car and free gas for the car unlimited but still) So the pay is really equal in belgium and some taxes are lower than in germany Minimum wage increased in germany by 22% up to 2080 gross and currently in belgium this sits at 1842 but netto in germany this is 1485 and in belgium 1710 Some people earn 3200-4000 gross on average so netto only 2100-2800 but you see most of the jobs pay the same so there s a lot of equality with or without a diploma Back in 2018 I was doing uber eats and deliveroo on a 0 hour contract earning 3500-4000€ netto a month
I am a 65yr old retired American. I did not graduate from college but I did start a good small business. In the early days when I had low income I paid little in taxes and accumulated future tax deductions. When I retired and turned the business over to my junior partner our employees were all the best and were all paid above the median pay for a college educated person in the US even though none of them had a college education. When business was great, I paid a lot of taxes but only because I made a lot of money. The highest effective tax rate I had was 25% and I paid $125,000 in Federal taxes in 2021. My state has no income tax. I retired with more than $1M in liquid investments (taxed money, not IRA). I am not unusual in America. There are 3 million small business in the US with net profits over $1M (not my business). In my state I paid no business tax, there was no business license needed, I could start it in my rented house without a permit (which I did), I could get some help from state programs to help small businesses. I could let go of employees who were not productive any time. I could cut employees if sales suddenly dropped too low and I was losing too much money. Could I have succeeded in Germany?
Yes, I think so. Why not, Entrepeneurship will always win. If you can make it, you will make it anywhere ... . But: what would have happened if you got very sick? And put all your money into treatments? (compared to Germany where this is without costs)
@@juergenwoerz6015 Several years ago I hsd s friend who was in his 30's and was self-employed with wife, kids and house. He needed an expensive medical treatment (I forgot what it was) and the State of California paid for 95% of it and he did not owe the state anything for it. Last year a close friend's wife got cancer. They have 6 kids. The hospital found the money from various assistance programs and it was all paid for, he owed nothing. That's not to say there are not holes in the US health safety net, but it is a pretty good safety net. Europeans have an inaccurate understanding of US healthcare financial assistance programs.
This was very comprehensive and interesting. I get reminded of Dave Ramsey telling his American audience "Have 6 months of income as an emergency fund. After that save 20% of your monthly paycheck". I feel the need for this is greatly reduced in Germany. Just a quick thought: While not monetary, mandatory paid vacation days may be worth mentioning as well. After all they are likely contributing to how much happiness one gets from earning x dollars a month.
6 month of income is rather on the high side. I just keep 6 months of living expenses as an emergency fund. If you move for a new job, the job turns out to be bad (and you have to move again) and your car breaks down at the same time, it's good to have some reserves. Also, German social welfare takes a long time to pay out. Not for unemployment (fortunately), but for example state live insurance, bafög etc.and even tax refunds can take years to process.
Thank you for this video. As a Romanian living now in USA, your video is a very informative video to try to explain to my american friends how some systems work in Europe. As well as to explain to my European friends and family why I need higher income to be able to have kids. Thanks again.
Im from the Netherlands and been to Romania a lot(for work etc.). Salaries there are way lower, and still the houses are pretty darn expensive compared to their income. Also many things in Romania are more expensive than in the Netherlands, for example electronics for example. If i where to live in Romania with Romanian salary i would not have a good life like i have now in Netherlands. The income/expense ratio is bad in Romania for my taste. And also there is too much "macho" and "show off" culture in Romania for my taste as well. If people poor or rich, they have to "Show" they have it good or are rich. Why buy an old luxery BMW instead of a New Dacia? Also girls there wear so much make up, als this show off culture. Guys want big German cars, girls wear alot of make up. I feel stressful in such society where everybody needs to "proof" something. Don't u agree?
@@HermanWillems hi! You have a pretty good idea of how things are there. The lack of real opportunities, corruption, small salaries, and pretty much all you said it’s true and I feel the same. It’s a culture that I felt it didn’t fit me, and it was part of the reason I left. But I think the economy is growing and there is potential. Speaking of medical system, is much cheaper, and with recommendations you can find great doctors and care. Paid maternity leave of 2 years. You don’t go in debt to get medical care. Still, in general, it’s harder there to have a good life.
Fantastic comparison and analysis! Really appreciate the data-driven approach as well. Like you mentioned towards the end, I think it would be great to make a Part 2 of this video where you add on other costs of living (rent, groceries, transportation, etc). As an American looking to move to Germany sometime this year, THANK YOU!
Moving for financial reasons is a bad idea, I think. I would not like getting a new neighbor with that mindset. I would rather appreciate a new neighbor who is willing to make new experiences and learn new things or simply follow his dreams. I moved once for money and I needed about 5 years to make the new place my home. Only when I decided I wanted a lot more social interaction at the new place, I got really used to the new place. I left shortly after that point in time but the relations I set up then still exist.
You explain it the most comprehensive way ever seen in any video, except: What is life like for a parent with kids living on minimum wages?? OR people who have an average salary (in Dutch we call it "Modaal" (average?) salary, which is 30-40K : Esp last category pays lot of taxes in Europe (NL) and not get most benefits. Maybe part #2 to set this out. Vielen dank for this brilliant content
Hi there - this ended up being a 4 part series. Part 1/2 were dedicated to the earners in this video, part 1 was direct deductions, part 2 was cost of living. Part 3/4 looked at more low-medium income salaries or jobs where you did not need a University degree to succeed.
Yes her salaries are crazy. A newly graduated Engineer in Ireland with a phd is on €42000 and not €67000. A Masters engineer is on €35000 and a BSC engineer is on €28000. She picks european salaries out of the air based on her American husbands salary and not European born salaries
Germany is not a socialist democracy. It is a heavily regulated capitalist democracy, as some call it, capitalism with a human face. We Americans have much to learn from Germany and Germany has much to learn from us. Thank you for promoting this exchange of cultures, histories, ideas and ways of living our lives!
ofc it is. at least beer price is socialist xD 0.39€ for 0,5L and when u return bottle u get 0.25€ back. so 0.14€. Yes u can be drunk from beer every day and spend only 30€/month and it is even better than most cheap beers. socialism is more fair to everyone than capitalism. ps: this beer price was in middle of summer when we were already half way in inflation and it was in capital.
Well you are splitting hairs. The welfare state is a German invention (Bismarck in Imperial Germany), and most ideas which make the German social market economy great came from the political movements of social democracy and socialism. The problem is that Americans lack political and historical education as well as proper vocabulary to hold a solid, open-minded conversation about many things. Instead, they read buzz words like "socialism" and they completely shut off mentally and go into "upset panic, screaming intensifies, the devil is upon us!"-mode. Political culture and political discussion is absolutely retarded in the USA. US-Americans use words without the slightest understanding of what they mean, just to induce fear and shut down any goal-oriented debate.
"heavy regulated capitalism" is kind of what a social democracy is. note the social. not socialist. somehow the "-ist" part is what americans usually get wrong.
Actually the German family would probably have to pay less tax than you calculated with a 3/5 instead of a 4/4 tax class combination as their income has such a big difference. But I can see where you're coming from as it would have made the calculations more complicated. And did you factor in the "Kinderfreibetrag" as well? It would have been interesting as well to see the families 10 years later (when both kids are in school and their income changed again) and then an additionalr 25 years later (what do they actually get from the state/insurance) once they're no longer working.
the 3/5 tax class does not make a difference in how much taxes you pay ultimately. it only within the years shifts the net take-home pay to usually the spouse with the higher income because the person with tax class 3 get both spouses' 10k tax free base amount considered for him/her when the employer calculates the wage tax to be deducted from the gross salary. 3/5 tax class spouses are required to file tax returns the next year; in that final tax calculation the calculation is the same like if both had the 4/4 tax classes. so, effectively, 3/5 tax class spouses have more take home pay "unterjährig" (during the year), but are more likely run into a "Nachzahlung" (payment of additional taxes), compared to 4/4 spouses
Incredibly well done video. I've been here 25 years and happy for the system and how it works. I would also add that in both scenarios, the German single guy and family are getting at least 6 weeks of paid vacation as professionals and in Baden-Württemberg, 12 paid holidays. Although single Max might be living the high life with more money, he's lucky to be able to do a two week vacation if at all. In addition, the German system will also allow for their full salaries for the first 6 weeks of illness before the health insurance takes over and pays 67%. Many companies in the US only give 5 sick days a year if you are lucky and then they fire you for being ill.
This video also ignores housing. In major US cities, equal to German cities, housing rent is probably close to double, and that will kill any income benefit.
I did the comparison with a German colleague. With California state tax, our tax burdens actually ended up being almost the same. Except I had higher property taxes, when I was renting my rent increases were higher, my retirement is a 401k casino and as we saw with Lehman brothers it can be wiped out and I had to pay back 25k in student loans. And I had 4k in medical bills from the dentist and doctor. By the time we factored all that in, he had more disposable income. In summary: socialism is just a buzzword that rich American elites use to trick middle class Americans into voting in the interest of rich people. Hence the media wealth of the American middle class being ranked 19th globally while the French and Germans are ranked at the top.
One of the many tricks. Secrets of America's Shadow Government series 2, Ep 1: The Game is Rigged, spells out how. If you can get past the nauseating conspiratorial commentary, basically it is by a process of State Capture where corporations pay both sides of government political donations to get the outcome they want. Additionally things like a single polling booth servicing large black neighborhoods in conservative states is another way. The socialism card as you mention is another. It isn't just like this in the US, other so called democracies suffer similarly. We are just financial units in a kleptocracy of varying degrees masquerading as democracy. Would you rather live in the Western kleptocracy or a russian? The former seems the better bet - less chance of defenestration when you grumble your lot in life LOL.
Only thing I can disagree with here is that this all assumes the pension system actuallyworks, when in reality, Berlin does everything for current pensioneers on the back of younger people. We have to go to the stock exchange to have anything when the system collapses udner tzhe weight of demographics and politicians winning elections over short term promisesmaking the issue worse.
The video claims that a pretty social democratic and egalitarian US system is "capitalist" and the German system, which is based in non-Socialism and get's harmed through real Socialism and not real capitalism, is pointed out as "Socialism". California is drastically more Socialist and materialistic and less producing than Germany. Also is a capital driven retirement plan not automatically capitalist, as paper never produces anything, but a simple business. The US system is bankrupt or broken, because it is Statist and the German system is now also Statist and gets bankrupt, because it's left-wing. That is, because the receivers are equalized in contrast to those who pay it. The US system, which was once anti-Socialist and radically libertarian conservative, gave the individual the choice and carry the cost themselves. The German system also had that individualism at its core, but bargained costs to benefits. The US liberal-socialist claim is, that everybody should get the same benefits as a German, while not paying for it, individually. That's a cost driver, and then the rising costs are rejected or reducing the actually working middle class in contrast to state dependants.
Agreed, also: the German employee gets 6 or more weeks off from work, while the company pays these days as if he was at work. On top of that , he gets an additional €1000 which is called "holiday money". And last but not least: what is a fulltime job? Here in Belgium it is 36 to 38 hours a week. If you work part time here, you also get paid days off work (3 weeks for a 50% workrate)
It’s not actually “socialism”, it’s a “social democracy”. Fundamentally different concepts, but Americans will call it “socialism” because they don’t know any better. Also, keep in mind that a lot of money paid in taxes in the US go to the military, which is supposed to police the world and also conveniently defend Germany’s ass in case of a war, since the Bundeswehr is essentially in a very dire state, not fit for an actual military conflict in any capacity. You might think that is just the “military industrial complex” and thus inconsequential, but I hope we now have a better understanding of why having a big-ass military is actually crucial (*cough Russia invading Ukraine *cough)
Excellent video. I'm German and worked in the US for 6 years and had the oportunety to move with my family to the US. I was sure in the beginning we all would move to the US, once I would get the status to be able to move, but skiped the plan after a few years, because of exactly the findings you found out, too. The expected greater buying power in the US because of the higher income turned out to be an illusion. Second reason to skip the plan was the higher crime rate in most US states compared to Germany. In the end I did take the "Amercian Life style" I like and found a way to realize that in combination with the higher freedom in mind in Germany. The funny thing is realy that it is on personal preference only what system you like more. The quality of life egals.
The appalling figures, released by the Federal Criminal Police Office of Germany, revealed that a total of 677 gang rapes were recorded last year, up from 300 in 2018-an average of 1.86 every day.
Hey Ashton, sehr gut gemacht. Interesting comparison. I‘m not sure Max would already have 2 years of experience at 23, he would probably still be at University or taking a year off to travel the world. Also Germany has lots of other „perks“ like lots of nature, public transportation, shorter working hours, more vacation, etc that add to a quality of life that is hard to put a price on.
In Germany, companies offer students subject-related paid work for their studies. A frequently practiced approach is to apply the theoretical knowledge from the course practically in the work as an employee or even to anticipate knowledge from the course to be acquired later. This time is included in your professional CV. In this way, companies can also secure future employees by taking on students with a permanent position after they graduate.
Ganz genau: Wer hat in Germany mit 23 eine Hochschulausbildung mit 2 Jahren “Berufserfahrung“? Nobody! Wir machen unseren “Hochschulabschluss“ erst mit 18/19 Jahren, was mit einem “Highschool“-Abschuss mit 16 Jahren nicht vergleichbar ist.
That's all a good comparison, but one really important point isn't considered. The salary used here for comparison is absolutely not normal for Germany. Most people, especially those who are single, have significantly less to live on. And so you have to compare how the wages are really distributed among the population. And what normal people have in the same job for different wages. The wage comparison with average numbers is not very meaningful because the average does not reflect the real distribution in the population. Single worker "Max" is not representative of the mass of people. You have to understand that only about 6% of the population earn as much money as "Max" in this example. And only 2% of households have as much money as the married Max. With a monthly wage of €2,400 after taxes, one is already among the richest 20% of the country in Germany. Of course, the United States also has a very large gap between rich and poor. But you also have to see how large the distribution in the mass is. What opportunities you have in a simple job and what you can achieve with it. The whole video uses the perspective from within an extremely wealthy bubble and lifestyle for comparison. And that doesn't reflect "normal" life in Germany.
you should do the calculation assuming somebody gets sick in the US as well... the prepayments for healthcare aren't just your per year cost, but the peace of mind knowing you're protected when you do get sick in the future. it's a pretty rosy assumption that single Steve in the US will never get sick (even if he's healthy this year).
I have something to say. When i started working in Germany after coming from romania in 2013, there was an american couple in the hotel. The husband told me that it is cheaper to come to germany, pay the 4 star hotel for a month and get his wife a hip replacement surgery. I remember him saying that absolutely everything included it would cost him less then 15000€. Second thing. I had a knee surgery and didn't heal as fast as the doc said. I was sick for 4 months. I didnt need to pay anything, didn't get fired and also got the 60% of my monthly income. Now... i have been living in Germany for more than 10 years. I was sick again for months last year and after looking at the costs that my insurance paid, i must say i think i would ha e died in the US or be homeless. The insurance paid almost 40000€. It is a lot. I am very grateful for the german system and gladly pay the taxes i need. I saw a video about a hernia surgery in the US A hernia surgery in the US was 89000$. In Germany it costs 2600€ if you don't have insurance. So lets say 3000 and 90000. Now... if i had to get 40000 from my insurance, by that calculation i should have(or get) 1.2 million dollars in the US. Is that right or am i exaggerating?
Hey great video (like many of yours). Some things to note - I am a software engineer in the U.S. I have friends working in similar positions all across Europe (including Germany) and their wages there (compared to mine currently) are about 1/5 to 1/6 what I make. This is not necessarily unique to me or my position, but salaries across the board are generally significantly lower in Europe than in the U.S. all things equal. Of course, they (Europeans) generally have a better work-life balance, not having to worry about medical expenditures or overall healthcare the same way we do, as well as education. I've never lived in Germany, only visited. But I did live in Norway and costs were much higher there compared to the U.S. But - I felt the quality of life was significantly higher from everyday food and drinks, to work-life balance, and the overall attitude towards workers protections. A lot to consider and I think you did a wonderful job here!
1/5 seems hard to believe, at least for me as a German. I went thru 3.5 years apprenticeship, 0.5 years of work and then 2 years technical school to finaly be a state certified technician for electrical engineering. I then started my current position 2014 with 35k/year (pre tax) 35 hours/week 30 days paid vacation and paid over time plus extra % on over hours. I am now at about 55k/year 38 hours/week 30 days paid vacation, paid over time with bonus. If I work only in Germany. But when I work outside of Germany as like business trip I get 50-100% extra so it fluctuates a lot and is difficult to compare. 2019 I made 80k but spend more than half the year out of country. But I don't think any software engineer would start with less than I got. I think if your income differs so much there must be more factors like work experience or exact place of living. A software engineer in Munich, Germany probably earns twice as much as a software engineer in Dortmund, Germany simply because the rent in Munich is 3x the rent in Dortmund. So if you a are in like NYC and even for a software engineer in NYC you are well paid, then compared with a software engineer in east Germany, yeah maybe the German gets only 1/5. But I mean thats like 50k/year vs 250k/year for the same job... hard to believe. And when I was in Sweden they have higher prices but also earn more than Germans and I think the same goes for Norway. When I was in Denver last summer prices in the supermarket were between 1.5-3 times the price of groceries in Germany. I remember looking for toiletpaper very long because we were not able to find a pack for less than 10$ while in Germany a pack of 8 is 3-4€. 5€ gets you the fancy 5 layer extra soft and nice scented paper. In Sweden I remember meat and alcohol is about 3-4 times the price in Germany but the rest was only 1-1.5 times the price (2014/2015). I would have guessed Norway, Sweden and maybe Finnland beeing about equal to the US, price and wage wise
oh yeah and about that work life balance. When I heard about "silent quiting" I assumed the US American habbit of just stopping to do your job and see how long it takes until they stop paying you, what I cant argue against if you have hire and fire on spot on the employer side. How stunned I was when I found out that "silent quitting" means: doing exactly what you get paid for, not more nor less. In Germany we don't have a special word for that because... that's just how it normaly should be. You do what you get paid for and if they want you to do more, you get paid more
@@Hamsterdam91 He might be a well compensated engineer in California or Washington, where salaries at some companies (and the cost of living) are much much higher than average. The average EE starting salary across the US as a whole is around $76k. But it sounds like you are more of a technician, which starts closer to $46k (also hourly with paid overtime, etc.). My own datapoints are a couple decades old, so they may be off. My EE colleagues in France made less than we did (at the same company) but only about 20% less. Colleagues in Japan made about 1/2, and colleagues in Taiwan made 1/5 and mainland China even less. I'm sure Taiwan and China have closed the gap by now. There is variance in the US too in cost of living and salaries. Typically, though, the salary varies less than the cost of living. My mortgage payment has never been more than 8% of my salary for decent size free standing homes in good neighborhoods. I don't think you could say that in California or Colorado, even with the higher salaries.
@@onehorsetoomany8006 yes that's what I ment with if he lives in NYC or the other high cost of living areas. As far as I know a 3 room apartment in Munich is still only the cost of a closet in NYC. So then I could belive he makes 250k/year but it is still hard to believe someone in his position only earning 50k/year in Germany. Your postion getting paid 20% less in France I can see that yeah. I am somewhere between a normal technician and a master in electrical engineering. The US has not so many level of professional education so I don't know if an equivalent exists. After a quick search and just one open job description for a technician in the US, a high school diploma seems to be enough to qualify as a technician. But I am closer to a bacholer degree in electrical engineering with some less theory knowledge but a lot of practical knowledge instead. After another google search, since 01.01.2020 "Staatlich geprüfte Techniker" like me can lable themselves "Bachelor Professional" by German law to make this and other German degrees easier to understand in the international economy. But there is some protest as it is not an academic degree but could be falsly understood as one. So I guess we can take from that, that a young technician with a high school diploma in the US earns about as much as a young "kinda" bachelor in Germany
@@Hamsterdam91 Nearly all the technicians I worked with had a 2-year associate's degree from uni. They made less per hour, but were hourly. With overtime they could easily out-earn younger engineers. But there was a lower ceiling on earnings. A few were on engineer payscales, but that was rare.
Great and very well researched video. Pretty much confirms the conclusions I get from the small researches I made in my free time over the last few years. You get a bit more in the US as a single professional or more or less the same as a family of 4 (with current exchange rates). But in the US you're totally screwed if anyone in your family gets any remotely serious injury/illness because of the insane out of pocket costs, while in Germany you can at least not have to worry as much financially. You also have to worry a lot about not losing your job in the US because it ties to things like health insurance, while it is a lot safer and better in Germany. Basically, life for the average joe is maybe very slightly better in the US when things are good, but gets significantly worse very quickly when anything bad happens. Meanwhile in Germany everything is a lot more stable and there are a lot of safety nets to catch and support you when anything bad happens. Not to mention the still very good standard of living in Germany, better work-life balance, better safety/security in the cities, the fact that you don't have to worry about gun violence/crime and mass shootings, etc. I'm definitely staying in Germany and never going to even think about moving to the US now. Thanks for helping me make up my mind!
As a 27 year old living and working in Luxembourg (which is very similar to Germany in a lot of the regards mentioned) with US nationality, this video was EXTREMELY insightful and useful. I've been questioning giving up my US nationality (mostly over financial issues) and different possibilities for my future and this brought a lot of great points to the table. Thank you for the time and research that went into this, I have no doubt that I will come back to it many times :)
@togetherforever64 Moien a welcome to (almost) paradise. Luxembourg is, imho, by far the best country to live in (in Europe) and one of the best worldwide. The only real downside is the housing market, but depending where you’re from in the US, you could’ve seen worse.
@@denmatti Moien! Thank you, Luxembourg is my home country, I am Luxembourgish, my whole family is here and I've been here (or not very far) for the past 15 years (was just born in the states) and I agree with you, absolutely love it! Cool to find another one of us on here 😉
Thanks for this extensive comparison. I did not check the numbers, but you checked all the major boxes. Maybe one thing to take into consideration is vacation. Generally speaking, you usually get more vacation days in Germany while the average working days per year are pretty much the same. For my personal situation it is 30 days of vacation at 248 working days versus ~10 days of vacation at 249 working days. So the difference in salary would take a significant hit of ~8.8%. This being said, it is hard to generalize. As others did already say: I personally rather pay a little more and get piece of mind in return than constantly having to worry about facing bankrupcy, if anything across your life span goes haywire.
Great Video! One factor I miss is, that as a German I can take about 6 weeks of payed vacation on average and still have the displayed income without any reduction to my yearly salary. Taking this as unpaid time (is that even possible?) in the US would reduce the income by rougly 10-12% I assume. Also interesting would be to take the housing costs into account (rural / urban) since this is usually a big share of the income and I totally have no clue what those costs really are in the US, despite the typical "You have to pay 1500$ for a cardboard box in LA" memes 😄
I am not sure how it works in the US, but you also have fully paid sick leaves up to 6 consecutive weeks before the insurance comes into play. So if you break your leg or something knocks you out for some time and you can not work for 6 weeks you will still have 100% of your income in Germany + having prorbably more paid vacation (minimum 4 weeks a year) means in the average you work probably less for that income than in the U.S, which means more free time and a better quality of life.
@@boerbenlp8659 Paid sick leave (an absence of 3 days or less) is mostly offered by public employers or to salaried employees. Many hourly employees at private companies still do not get paid sick leave. Most employers in the US offer options free or low cost insurance for longer absences (called short term disability and long term disability). They typically replace 70-100% of your income for short term and a lower percentage for long term. Short term varies with the policy, but is usually starts at 4 days absence and ends after a 3 month, 6 month, or 1 year absence. Long term would kick in after that, and covers up to 3 year, 10 year, or even lifetime absences, though at a lower payment percentage. But it's not required and some, mostly low wage, employees likely to not have these insurance policies. Yes, I suspect US employees work far more hours. But I also suspect the cost of living is much lower. Unless you live on a coast or in a scenic mountain area (like Colorado), the cost of living is generally pretty cheap.
She's had to be very systematic about it, that much is certain. We are most grateful for putting in that effort. I want to add something here. Socializing the cost of education is actually regressive. People who will never get a direct benefit or even sometimes an indirect benefit, and who earn less than a university graduate are paying "up" to educate someone who will be a higher earner. Sure, they'll generate more tax revenue, but to call it a humane social venture is a stretch. The other problem is that the less you pay for something, the less you take it seriously.
It is 3am here where I am and just finished watching. Your video is by far the most comprehensive and helpful to us. We are moving to Munich next month, we are in our early 40s and similar to your German family example. I have watched nearly all of your videos and needless to say that you sealed the deal for us. Thank you for your efforts in making this video! More power to your channel.
@@TypeAshton The thing is. Although the families earn pretty much the same. I think the German family can afford more. Because most things beside energy like rent restaurants and groceries are much more expensive in the US ( on average ) than in Germany.
Great video. It is well thought out and covers most of the items of income. Two things that come to my my mind that weren't considered here. 1. Childcare spending credits in taxes. That should increase the income for married couple by up to 6K 2. Spending part - This may be a full video on itself but IIRC, Germany has a VAT of 20% on purchases, US on average taxes about 7% across its states in state taxes. Fuel and electric costs also would impact the standard of living substantially. Lastly, I considered moving to Germany when I had 15 years of experience in Tech and am single earner in my family since my wife is home maker, I realized that I was getting less than half the salary in Germany. I actually save more than what my gross pay would have been in Germany. My relatives in Germany recommended Switzerland to me and not Germany due to salaries. My assessment was that Germany is fine for those who are working and intend to work till 65 but single earner families and those looking for an early retirement are better off in US.
Great job! One of the big issues with comparisons like this is the variance of cost-of-living in different locations. As a rule, the best paying jobs in the US are located in the most expensive places. In addition, the cost of different items are vastly different! We found that cars and electronics are much cheaper in the US, whereas e.g. hygiene articles like toothpaste or soap are more expensive. I would say that while overall the standard of living in Germany and USA are fairly similar, there are different cultural focus points: if you want to make a lot of money (and work your ass off for it), go for the US. If you want a balanced life with some private time, go to Germany.
@@kasper2970hmm I never met anyone who went bankrupt from medical expenses or anyone who went bankrupt in general. So it’s crazy that majority of Americans are going bankrupt out here.
An interesting info you might add even if you already talked about that in other videos is work-life balance, the amount of time you work in the week in your job and how much time you have for your family. I worked 35h/week and every hours above was extra paid time while colleagues in the US with the same job had to work 50-60h per week. Adding to that 30 workdays/year vacation time while the US colleagues could be happy to get 14 days. My boss got angry when I didn't take my whole 30 days in a year, while their boss got angry if they wanted to use their 14 days. What use is a greater income if you got no time to enjoy it? Add for families the parental leave with the parental allowance for up to three years you have in Germany. I know it's difficult to calculate for all options, but just a hint that the whole calculation for the USA will go down the drain if you add a chronic illness like diabetes (insulin per month in the USA ca. 1000$), high blood pressure etc. A friend in the US pays about 600$ for every epi-pen for emergency he needs because of an allergy. The same thing cost 5€ in Germany or is free for children. One major point I think should have been made, is that your example only works for studied people with an higher income. Most people don't fall in that category. More interesting would be to compare for example a burger flipper in the USA and Germany or a employees at a grocer, You could even use the same parent companies and their branches in the US and Germany like McDonalds (DE+US), Aldi (DE) and Trader Joes (US) to have the same basis for calculation.
Interestingly, we are coming out with a video this Sunday on the affects & statistics behind worker benefits (such as sick leave, vacation time, and worker productivity and the cost to small businesses) between the US and Germany. Should be quite appropriate after this discussion.
I completely agree. As an early 30s woman with a chronic illness from the USA, I chose to leave my country because of the lack of security and social programs that would help people who are less well-off or have chronic illnesses. My healthcare costs were astronomical even with good private health insurance and a good tech salary and it was because I have a chronic illness.
Why Americans keep calling the German system "socialism". Germany is still a capitalistic Society. Socialism versus capitalism is simply about who owns the companies, in socialism the companies are owned by the state or the community.
Because they actually do not understand the meaning of the word or they have vested interest in keeping people ignorant. The moment you mention minimum wage, universal healthcare, union, cheaper education costs, they start shouting ‘socialism’.
@@angelperez3750 In what way is the economy more mixed than the USA economy? I think the main point is that most USA citizen confuse socialism with social programs.
Well Germany is a mix of Capitalism and Socialism. Mix of Socialism coz they have higher government regulations on price controls for essential commodities like Healthcare and Fuel, has a very labour-friendly work laws having companies provide maternity leave and less work hours per week. It also funds a lot of social programs. These are deffo policies adopted from socialist ideology. So yes a reasonably restricted Free Market is what Germany and a lot of Euro countries are all about
The problem I see with the system we have in Germany is, that it sets all the incentives to go the educational route. So instead of starting to pay monthly taxes like a normal worker, they start around the age of 25-27. I'm 27 now and have payed taxes for nearly 11 years. A friend of mine is 28 and has never in his life payed one cent in taxes from honest work. Yet, after I have worked for roughly 45 years (At least for now, I suspect I will work until I'm 70), my friend will have worked for only 34 years and will still be able to get his pension at the same time. Going down this American way of getting everyone into higher education, left a big hole in our taxes (Meaning I have to work longer, because less and less people pay taxes, ultimately) and skilled crafts and trades. There is currently around 1 1/2 worker for one elder. That will drop even lower in the coming years with the older generation getting closer to pension. In addition, cost of living in general (Electricity, gas, water, taxes on goods and so on) is more expensive in Germany.
Dont forget the massive migration. Only 35% of the people who came 2015 are working. And even if the work its mostly low income jobs... Also we are working almost the longest and have a really low pension compared with other eu countries...
@@ralleralofsky3454 Actually, the state just released a picture on Twitter that shows that 55% of those that came just 2015 are working. Still. 45% are still doing nothing. And that is not even taking into consideration that almost 3-5 million came after 2015. So, maybe you are right after all.
Please do not confuse socialism with social democracy or social market economy although Americans use this as synonyms. That is a typical mistake Americans often make. It can leads to prejudices like „the dumb American“ even though the rest of the statement is correct.
Hi there, this is discussed towards the end of the video. I'm fully aware that what Germany has is not "Socialism" but a social market economy. However the phrase is often weaponized in the US as anything funded through social contributions. The push for "Universal Pre-K" earlier in 2022 was an excellent example of this. Because Bernie Sanders and others advocated for it, they were branded as "radical leftists" and "socialists", even though 4 US states already offer this program. The use of quotes is a tounge-in-cheek reference to this misuse, but we have discussed in many videos up to now on how this is not correct.
I bet you guys knew, as always you are so smart. That's why I always love your well researched videos. Don't wonder about the reactions from commentators to the word "socialsim". The quotation marks just don't transport enough that you guys don't mean it that way, I guess. Also didn't see them at first. And the term really triggers Germans after 30 years of fighting with two different systems and with the socialist one having done so much harm to people.
@@andreahausberg3366 this report is done in English, English speaking people are very aware of quotation marks and what they mean. It can’t be more obvious. It’s also obvious the commentator is German but he received his answer and it should be end of story.
The powers to be in the United States have big interest in keeping the citizenry ignorant. Any advances in expanding social services for the working class are unacceptable because it would have to come at the expense of the ruling class and corporations. American voters have been manipulated into fighting over cultural and basic human rights issues lest to be more interested in improving the social safety net for all Americans.
As an American that retired to Ireland a few years back, Europe's system is simply better. As she noted, there more peace of mind here. You just don't worry about some unexpected medical bill coming your way. Plus, quality of life is just better here. This is a culture tailored toward ordinary people, whereas the US it's a rich's man world.
Please also include in your comparison any differences in number of vacation days and holidays, paid sick leave, working hours in a 100% job, etc. Would be interesting to see!
I think there are two things that are not mentioned (or I missed it) that are just a death sentence for working in the US: Factor in how many hours those guys work and how much vacation they get. All the money in the world is worthless if you don't get a life out of it. That's a personal choice for sure and there are rare individuals in both countries that love to work 120 hours a week every week, but they can still do that. If you're not that sort of person, nobody can force you in Germany to work past 48 hours a week on average or skip your vacation. People that work all day exist. The number of people that actually want to do that is extremely small at the end of the day. And I don't want to spread misinformation (so please check it yourself before spreading, can't link sources on YT), but as far as I know, the average American works about 50% more and their actual output / productivity remains almost identical. Most people working like crazy just put in useless hours and are not on top of their game. You don't just work, you work to make your company more money - you need to stay economical. Germans realize that, Americans somehow not so much it seems like. And that all results in less time with your kids, giving them a worse start to life, not spending time with your partner and making your marriage work, never learning that instrument, never travelling outside the US or never doing whatever priorities you have in your life and at the end of the day, I'm sure it's felt by the health system. Lots of people work insane hours in Germany when they're young, but come age 30, becoming an actual adult with the ability to reflect on what they're doing, virtually all that I knew (including myself) stopped doing that and are often willing to take a crazy pay cut. That's just a reality, money is not everything in life and you can still live a very decent life with just 80k a year or so. And if something terrible happens, well, you made those social security payments for a reason.
Exactly- and the garanty of 24 vaction by law ( even when most of the companies grant 30 days) and extra days for special occasions as death of close family members, movind and marriage- as Tarifmiarbeiter/in in Bavaria you got 7x the first day paid if you child is sick. Also it 46:34 should by cost of maternal care included. Also if you calculate that when you are sick, you can see a doctor without minding the cost, stay at home as LONG as you are sick, as far I understand in US the amount of sickdays granted is up to each company. If you calculate all these factors this high income will vanish into thin air ….
I don't remember factoring in property taxes, but I believe it would make a big difference. That's how we fund the school, police, fire dept, roads, etc, so it seems right to include. We pay it either by owning a home or rent, doesn't matter. I'm not sure about Germany, but the property tax in my area easily adds an extra 8-10-12k per year extra for nothing fancy. Great video, thanks for the work you put into these.
if its property you live in and not rent out its below 400Euro per year for a 160m² house (that has and additonal a decent garden and double garage). depending on your income that can still hurt but i think thats a lot less then the us :D
Yes, I was flabbergasted to learn what my sister and her family pay in property taxes in the US. It's at least an order of magnitude more than in Germany. As a property owner (modest apartment) in Germany, we have paid around 400 EUR a year, which is likely on the high end as we live in Munich. Some other interesting differences wrt owning property: - Loan rates in Germany were easily 2-3 % below that in the US, e.g. 2% fixed for 30 years a few years back. - In the US you can deduct the loan interest from your taxes. In Germany, you cannot, *but* you do get an advantage if you have work done in your home. About 20% of the income you pay to the workers is removed from your tax liability ( a tax credit, not a deduction), which can be significant.
Thank you for the video! I can only imagine the amount of grunt work you had to put into finding out the numbers for the comparison. The length speaks for itself into how complicated this issue is and how many variables there are in this topic. I will watch part 2 and see what you've added there, and add my own thoughts in the end of it
13:33 Common misconception: The extra solidarity tax or surcharge ("Solidaritätszuschlag" in German, "Soli" or "SolZ" for short) is also paid by those in former East Germany, not just those in former West Germany. Since 2021 it has been scaled back considerably and may be scrapped entirely in the coming years due to legal considerations.
Not only were/are all Germans paying the "Soli", the official reason for implementing this special tax were (read it at Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung) the financial burdens from reunification and the Second Gulf War (!) or in Original text: "Am 14. Mai 1991 stimmte der Bundestag erstmals für die Einführung eines Solidaritätszuschlags. Grund waren finanzielle Belastungen durch die Wiedervereinigung und den Zweiten Golfkrieg. 1995 wurde der Soli erneut eingeführt und seither von Kontroversen begleitet."
So many calculations: utterly impressive! As for the final outcome: indeed, not very surprising for a European; the standard of living for a moderately well-to-do German family is not that different from an American one - which is obvious enough by appearances alone. As for the "peace of mind" bonus: there is also a social factor to it which is hard to calculate. Making sure, via taxation, that even people in low-income brackets are able to afford a basic standard of living is likely to support social stability, lower crime rates, etc. On a personal note: seeing these figures makes me realize I made all the wrong career choices...
I love your videos and watch all of them! Thanks for all of your hard work, both of you. We've had the opportunity to live in Europe twice and loved it both times and are looking forward to doing it again.
Great video, I love to think about these things as well. One thing I noticed is that when you compare those family costs, the price of child care is really only relevant from the ages of 1-5 or so, and then in the US the kids go to school where child care is free. So, the heavy cost the American family has to pay for child care is actually pretty short-lived. Of course, there is the issue of saving for college which is another one altogether (although, Americans can also go to Europe for free education like I did). Another aspect to consider would be the fact that Steve is probably only getting 2 weeks of vacation whereas Max should have around 5. So Steve is working more for his salary with less time to enjoy it. I think going further into the differences between sick leave between the two countries could also be relevant to highlight just how much more of a safety net there is in Germany. But I know the video was already very long so I get why you didn't have time to include this stuff. I enjoyed it thanks!
I could be wrong, but I think the EU also enjoys like half an hour more free time per day (less work hours) and the commute or driving experience is often better and shorter. This is a very huge thing to me since having three hours vs three and a half hours of free time more during the work day is pretty substantial.
Great job! I am German and I have lived 2 years in the US. I believe the cost of groceries is higher in the US since a lot of agricultural products are subsidzed in Germany. If you have to feed a familiy you will notice the difference!
Not sure a much bigger farming country and bigger economies of scale (and population) would not mean food prices might be higher (outside perhaps dairy) in Germany.
@@Verwaygen Good points. I would note that average saleries in NY are likely higher than in Munich hence the higher housing cost. I'd also note that NY is a location for lots of inward housing speculation and hot money investment unlike Munich which drives up housing costs and leaves less for just an "ordinary" NY resident. Germany also has strong tenant rights (as do some places in NY to be fair but its not universal as it is in Germany). From watching the vid and reading the comments, the US is great as long as nothing "bad" ever happens ie unemployment, illness, low wage trap and having kids. So in a perfect life, the US is great (assuming personal safety is not an issue). As for food, remember that our farm subsidies both dampen farm gate costs but also mean less competition when supply exceeds demand. The US can also export alot of food to canada where farming is harder and import cheap food from Mexico where some foods grow easier- all accessible by road-rail. If it wasn't for EU farm subsidies, European food would be alot more expensive.
Great comparison, I enjoyed your video! I would humbly like to add more dramatics to the picture you have drawn. As a German living in the US with great State Healthcare, I have to say that US Healthcare today is MUCH MUCH more expensive than in your calculation unless your family never sees a doctor. We hit our deductibles sometimes already in January or February. Depending on what else you need, the family out-of-pocket is not that far-fetched either. When you change employers, you usually end up paying twice the deductible because insurance changes. Unemployed workers can get Cobra, but it is so expensive that many remain uninsured. Housing costs are also MUCH MUCH more expensive in the U.S. Rents are dirt cheap in Germany. German rents in the metropolitan areas are like living in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming. Groceries are MUCH MUCH more expensive in the US. A family of 4 easily spends $1500-2000 a month on food and household goods. Insurances in the US are MUCH more expensive than in Germany. In Germany, I could insure my car with 15 million max per accident a year for the amount I pay here bimonthly with only 300k max coverage. Homeowners insurance is out of a different universe. Granted, the South where we live has higher storm risks and earthquakes, but my friends in Germany never believe that a humble home in the US quickly eats up $3500-5000 in insurance a year. Let's also not forget the property taxes at 0.5-2.5% of the home's value, depending on the state you live in. The German family does MUCH MUCH better than just 1000EUR a year in disposable income. Even state colleges now have at least $20k/semester in tuition fees for in-state students (out of state, usually doubles). Only having about 20k in student debt assumes a lot of prestigious scholarships, living rent-free, and shopping at your parents' fridge.
Excellent overview! I would love to see an additional scenario where both families had a baby, including medical costs and parental leave. As you say, it's difficult to factor for medical expenses, but having a baby is something many people experience, aspire to or can relate to. Keep up the good work!
SO true. When we were in America we had to save for years to have a baby! And then going back to work wasn't an option because the cost of daycare! And now here in Bavaria I receive money monthly and daycare is subsidized. Which means I CAN work and add to our bottom line.
Curious on how our single and family workers in the US fair once housing, utilities, transportation and food come into play? Watch Part 2 Here: ua-cam.com/video/gAC2TMNbQYs/v-deo.html
The solidarity surcharge is NOT only for those only in the West of Germany. Easterners pay it as well, if they happen to make enough money.
This is one of the corrections given in the next videos.
@@TypeAshton Thanks
All it cost you is your freedom.
@@ntvirtue I can legally own an AR-15 in Germany, actually.
Any other freedom that you are concerned about that I might be lacking?
Our constitution includes all the freedoms of yours plus several of it's amendments. Please tell me which freedom exactly I am missing.
Im an American engineer living in Austria, I make half the salary I did in the States yet have saved twice the amount of money without changes to lifestyle. That's been my exerience living here for 7 years.
That has more to do with your choices rather than the country you live in. I could do the same by moving from California to Florida. Stop with the hyperbole.
@@no-bozos How is it hyperbole when the person literally said "without changes to lifestyle"
He's just reporting on his own experiences.
And yes, that may very well be true of a move from California to Florida. I've worked in the San Francisco bay area and it's ridiculous. But that is part of the issue. Just because me and my partner were able to afford a crazy overpriced apartment doesn't make it right and doesn't change the fact that we have a better amount of savings now that we both live and work in Europe (even though not in a super social country).
@@justaname999 - How does ANYONE move from one country to another without changing their lifestyle? Answer: You can't. Thus the term I used.
It's the highest form of hyperbole to make comparisons between cultures, locations or eras. Understand now?
Where do you get this "doesn't make it right" business? According to whom? You? What is it with people that think their experiences are somehow the universal metric for life?
Grow up, and stop being such a spoiled, whiny, brat.
@@no-bozos Sir, this is an Arby's.
@@no-bozos You just have to take comparable statements from other Americans living anywhere in Europe and you will see that they are not exaggerations. It is hard to see that the USA is not the greatest country in the world. Take it like a man!
What a great and well thought out and documented video. I live in the Netherlands and our system is pretty much the same. Personally, my preference is for the Dutch/German system which offers safety and security especially in the moments when something goes wrong. In April 2022 I was hit as a cyclist by a car that ignored a red light. I had to undergo several surgeries and spent 2 months in the hospital. In November 2022, I returned to work. The fact that all this time my salary was paid 100% and all hospital bills, etc. were paid, consciously and unconsciously ensured that I didn't have to worry about anything but my recovery. That to me is worth paying more taxes and social contribution, so give me the VW Tiguan instead of the Lamborghini 😁
This is exactly how we feel. I recall a great conversation I had with my work colleague once... to paraphrase: "American's often talk about not wanting to pay for other people who make poor decisions or take on unnecessary risk... like healthcare and smoking for example. But I ask in return, what is RISK? Sure, my friend might smoke and they may have greater healthcare costs.... but I like to go downhill mountain biking. He might need to see a pulmonologist but I might need significant orthopaedic care. In the end... stop worry about what other people are doing and just support each other and be kind."
So you like the Dutch system which seems better than the German one. Or you have better insurance than most. In which case you pay premium and can get the same level of comfort in the US too.
In Germany your salary stops being paid 6 weeks after your first sick day. After that the insurance will take over at 60%. So you lose quite a bit of money if you're sick long enough.
@@borstenpinsel In the Netherland you get paid max. 104 weeks (2 years) when sick by the Sickness Benefit Act (Ziektewet-uitkering). You get paid 70% of your salary and in most cases the employer supplements it to 100%, but that depends on the Collective Labour Agreement for the sector you are working in.
You can get 100% of your salary paid for in the US also, but you have to pay for it. It's called short-term and long-term disability. For me it cost me $1 a month to get this through my company. I was out for 4 months with Covid and I was paid 100% of my salary. This works for anything. It could be injured on the job or injured outside of the job (riding your bike for example).
Edit just as a disclaimer. I don't know if it's $1 a month for everyone.
Wrong answer. If that had happened in the US you would now be a millionaire....
Loved the video. I'm 30, grew up in Germany, and moved to California at 26. From my experience, it really comes down to this: In Germany, there is safety and security. In the US life can be more fun or "better" as long as you're reasonably healthy and you take control of your career and finances. There is no one to hold your hand or catch you if you're careless. Beware of predatory debt traps. But if you're on top of those things, life will be pretty great. Some people do great in the US system but I think the average person would do better in Germany.
Correct. America is a society of winners and losers. You can win and live well, or you can lose and die in the gutter.
But there always is a passive risk that something could happen you can't avoid, like getting unlucky with cancer or just bad luck, are you secured against that?
I would say that I'm reasonable competent with money but I just don't want to worry about all that stuff, i know that there is something to help in Germany and you don't need to get predatory insurance contracts and co for it, i just pay my "tax" and I'm extremely lucky for this system or i would be extremely f-cked right now, so i guess in biased.
@@makuru.42 I have kids so the choice is easy: I stay in Europe. I fought my way out of the gutter in the U.S. and made enough to be comfortable. I don't want that struggle for my kids, and I'm not rich enough to guarantee their future if I take them to the U.S. and as you say, bad luck strikes. So we stay in Europe.
Teenage thinking.
There are risks a single person can't look for ...cancer etc than the society should step in ...that's called human looking for each other ...
This is a really interesting and very thorough comparison. Having lived in Germany now for 22 years (coming from USA), I really appreciate that different emphasis in each country. In the US, there is still a very strong focus on the individual. In Germany, since WWII, the society has focused on the community, it is the community that is important and not necessarily the individual. Your excellent analysis shows this - all those costs paid „up front“ go towards evening playing fields, taking care of the weaker members of society, etc. All this leads to a more equitable society. Sure, the highs are not as high in Germany (speaking of salaries here ;-)) but the lows are no where near as low as they can get in the US. Approaching my 60s now, I feel far more secure existing in the German environment than I would in the US. And, that security is priceless!😊
These comparisons also lack a bit of context (including this one which is a very good analysis but unfortunately also doesn't include this very important topic): The cost of living. Comparing the incomes side by side is nice and a start, however it lacks the context of what you can actually do with that income without taking the price for everything you need to pay into account.
Rent (or property taxes which are much higher in the USA), electricity, food, heating, fuel, phone bills (The average monthly cell phone bill for Americans in 2022 is $114 per month - in Germany it is 15-30 €) etc.
These costs vary by location in both Germany and the USA of course, however in general the costs are way higher in the USA.
This means that even if the nominal income after deducting all the topics covered in the video might or might not be higher in the end people in the USA still have less free money to spend after paying for all the necessities of life.
Maybe it is like this if you compare just the family or the single person. But comparing like that leaves out the real benefit. The germans take care of their weak fellow countrymen as of where the americans trow them on the street without healthcare or income.
What americans cant see is that your country cant be great if it is by trampeling on your fellow citizens.
So the german (european) socialsystem is about caring for all not just yourself and that is the real benefit.
Nice to hear that you're feeling secure and well in Germany. Hopefully there will be more than 22 happy years to come!
@@nadinebeck2069 Indeed. Das hoffe ich auch! Freues Neues!
I can see you love fascism....:)
Socialism = The means of production and its distribution are owned and regulated by the State. There are no Socialist countries in the EU. Paying more into Social Welfare programs does not make a country a Socialist one.
@Hatsross12 It is the definition of Socialism. Fact.
@hatsross1295both not wrong and both not correct.
Socialism is a blanket term that includes all ideologies that work towards overcoming capitalism, liberating the worker class and strive towards a society thatbis based on equality and solidarity. That can include anything from communism to social democracy. But Germany isn’t an anti-capitalist state and doesn’t call itself socialist. It is a free market democracy with a strong emphasis on social welfare.
We are going in the direction of green socialsm. The Greens want control everything, like socialist.
@Yippie Its a bit more nuance to the term Socialism, though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
That is not what she is saying. She is adressing specifically the American viewers who are conditioned to believe that any social progress is leading to that "bad socialism" because "capitalism" is the "greatest".
Socialism is a fear-mongering word for GOP, right-wingers, and capitalists. Just say it, and they run.
There is no definition behind it. So, no need to exchange on what socialism really is.
Really great video! I would like to contribute a couple of ideas on improving the comparison: 1. It is obvious that single Steve has a lot of headway over Max - so you should probably factor that in in terms of accumulating assets (Steve will start as a family man a lot wealthier than Max if he saves his extra money). 2. As someone else said - look at childbirth / maternity leave / Elternzeit. 3. Urlaub vs. PTO etc - Max and Mila working 10 to 15% less than Steve and Stephanie per year. And one final thought: All people in your comparison earn way above median income. It would be very interesting to see the comparison of a more "average" couple.
I think she was doing an approximation of her family, which may be similar to other individuals/families considering a move. She might have done Stephanie and Mila, but the video would have been that much slower.
Very good point, thank you.
great point on the average income as average family income is much lower in both countries
RE the "average" couple: that is a very good point, but quickly answered: the US has less deductions from your salary, and more expenses from your take-home pay. Especially health insurance is the big thing here: you pay the same percentage of your salary in Germany (up to the cap), whereas you pay the same actual amount of money in the USA.
In the end, the US system favors people with large income and punishes those with small income, whereas the German system punishes those with small income significantly less.
I live in Germany, and what I really like about the health system here that you have already paid for your health cost before being sick. That means, whenever you feel sick, you straight go to the clinic without thinking about deductibles. This subtle difference makes huge effect on one health.
Das kann man gar nicht hoch genug schätzen.
Actually you pay for everybody else getting sick, also those who have never and will never contribute anything at all......and you never get yourself what you paid for in health care.
As an average person who is taking care of their health you are constantly overpaying.......way overpaying!
This whole system is sick and it should not be mandatory to have health insurance. I'd rather pay for my medical bills by myself.
The common misconception is that medical expenses are skyhigh. An operattion however does not cost multiple thousand Euros like many people think. It costs a few hundred.
@@nobodymister5435only takes one accident and you're screwed. Chances are you're gonna have to go to the hospital once in your lifetime. And in the US, that single incident can quickly cost more than what a german contributes in healthcare related taxes their whole lifetime.
@@u-q-6236 I totally agree when we're talking about the US. In most of Europe that isn't the case.
In Germany we're paying about 15 % of our gross income for health insurance, the employer pays another 15 %. When you're self employed you pay the whole 30 % by yourself.
A Chemotherapy for example costs about 15 K €, Brain surgery costs about 12 K €, Bypass surgery 19k €, the removal of your gall bladder costs 1500 €.
An average person would pay about 10 K € anually in health insurance premium. However if there was no obgligatory health insurance membership your employer could pay you more wages in the first place and you could easily save up your own medical fund.
@@nobodymister5435 you are forgetting that the main reason why hospital visits are so cheap in germany is that hospitals are staate subsidized and paid for with public money. In the US hospitals are run like a company in order to make profits. If you would abolish the current sytem then you would have prices like in the US. Also its a social system, its in the best intrest of the country to have a healthy population. If you dont like the public healthcare you can still get private healthcare its a lot cheaper if you have high income but its gonna become very expensive once you get old.
Salary of 67.000 EUR in Germany for a 23 year old engineer in Germany and 2 years of experience? I don't believe you can find that here in Germany. For starters, German engineers take longer to graduate, so they get out of school around 26-27 years old in average. Starting salaries range from 40k to 55k for entry level positions, depending on size of the company, position and even geographical location within Germany. To reach that kind of salary here in Germany you have to work many years. I have been working in Germany as an engineer for 6 years now ( I am 38 now) and work for a large construction company which is affiliated to IG Metall and pays good salaries. My colleagues, which recently joined the company range from 25 to 33 years old, all of them Germans. Neither of them make that much money, they might be close to earn that in a few years time and also have a 35 hour/week contract. Please no offense, but these numbers seem to be off
The fairest comparison I could find would be go to through Glassdoor or Indeed since they are self reported wages. I would wager that there is a pretty significant range at each of these salary levels. My husband Jonathan also works as an engineer in the cycling industry and I had him proof the numbers too. In his experience, the 15 year experience seemed low, but the fresh-out-of school salary seemed high.
I work in compensation management at a large German company, and I can tell you from experience that these self-reported numbers from Glassdoor and Indeed tend to be statistically insignificant due to them being self-reported.
For Germany, you should rather look at official statistics from the Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Benchmark data from large HR consulting firms tend to be even better, but those are of course expensive to acquire.
@@TypeAshton Glassdoor salaries are, in my experience, massively inflated over what real life salaries actually are. And part of that is due to using the average value. It only takes one well paid individual to artificially raise the average salary. The median value would give a better indication of typical salary levels. Or even look at the hourly wage, because I'm sure workers in the US work much longer hours with fewer vacation days than their European counterparts.
I graduated with 22 as an engineer in Germany.
Of course, I did THW instead of military. The government wants you to shoot other people rather than get an education and earn money.
I wasn't above 67k until the second half of my 20ies though, and that was after I left the country.
You are quite right.
It never ceases to amaze me what US Americans call socialism. When I recall the writings of Marx or the definition of socialism, I cannot comprehend what is called socialism in the US. The German welfare state has nothing to do with socialism.
No! It has. In the welfare Western-European states there is a good combination of the solidarity of the real socialism and the market economy.
@@gaborbakos7058 No, socialism is something else. Socialism is by definition the precursor to communism. Marx and Engels assumed at the time that a society cannot be directly transformed into communism. They assumed that there would have to be a transitional phase to actually existing communism. This was to be socialism. In theory, communism is characterized, among other things, by the fact that there is no personal property, no religion, no political leadership, only equals. Money in its current form should also no longer play a role.
Socialism should pick up societies where they are and lead them to communism. This is why socialism has been different in every country. There has never been real communism anywhere and I don't think it will ever happen.
Western European welfare states neither aspire to communism and its goals, nor do they reject capitalism. So they are clearly not socialist.
Obviously, hardly anyone in the US seems to know what socialism really means, but everyone uses the term inflationarily for any economic or social form that does not correspond to that of the US.
I don't want to discuss whether the German way is better or worse than the US way. I think both have advantages and disadvantages. But I deny that Germany is socialist and I get annoyed when such terms are used to defame other countries without people even understanding what they mean
I take it you didn't write your comment from a "truly socialistic" North Korea, right ? 🤪
The reason this is the case is because the Red Scare is still echoing in the older generations of Americans. Everyone was demonizing Communism which socialism was lumped in with. America was basically having a witch hunt. People were jailed, killed, and just plain life ruined for espousing or supposed to espouse those beliefs which is supremely mental when one considers the First Amendment. So, anything that is controlled too tightly by the government gets labelled 'socialist.' Public education has also done very little to properly explain different governmental styles such as Solidarity. The people in power like their sheep as blank as possible as it makes filling them with the 'right ideas' much easier.
As an American myself I can say with experience that in general, we are big fans of using words to make points without knowing what those words we use mean.
I have had the privilege of living overseas for almost 26 years of my total 68 years of my life. I have been telling my friends and family for many years now, that even though people in Western Europe pay nearly 48% of their income to taxes and social programs, in the end, they have greater peace of mind, for themselves and their children. And, it may turn out the buying power of their money is as good or greater. I think you just, with good details, proved my hypothesis. Thank you for what you do with this channel. I just discovered you and am so glad I have.
More than that. You forgetting the additional 16-26% sales tax on items.
@@knerduno5942 Nonsense. Nobody in "Western Europe" pays 48% and sales tax is a whole different thing which has nothing to do with deductions. This narrative of confusing consumption with taxation is typically found in rightwing and far-right groups and reveals a lack of understanding taxation at all.
@@bobbwc7011 Its not just taxes, but all sort of deductions to pay for those socialist goodies like healthcare. So no, it is not nonsense half you income is deducted for taxes and other stuff.
Now do America where Europeans take care of their own defense. Their own medical research.
@@knerduno5942 then just be happy to live in the US if that's the case and let people in Germany enjoy their greater quality of life 😉
Thank you for such a thorough video! You covered the differences very well! My husband was offered a job in the US, but we made a similar calculation and decided to stay in Germany. An important point for us is that we want to have more children, and it is very expensive in the US. You've already covered the topic of childcare and benefits, but there is also the cost of pregnancy and childbirth itself. Here in Germany, we paid 0 for my complicated childbirth, and I received excellent medical care. Also, here in Berlin, there are numerous programmes for families, such as family centres with fun activities, music classes for babies, playgroups, etc., most of them free of charge. It creates a greater sense of community and benefits the families, especially the poorer ones who cannot afford paid activities.
Plus you basically have to quit your job to take care of a baby in the US.
Dont forget the sick days you can use per year per child, the state enforced PTO and the ability to go into parental leave to be at home taking care of your children, a coworker did that for 2 years and some months and then came back into the company
My great grandmother came from Germany, leaving two siblings behind who passed away in the last decade at the ripe ages of 98 and 104. The long term care situation is so much better over in Germany. The best most expensive long term care plan (short of being a multi millionaire) in the USA doesn’t come even close to the coverage my Tante received in Munich. Germany does a much better job at preventing poverty than the United States, and no one goes bankrupt because of bad luck. Excellent video. Thank you.
"Germany does a much better job at preventing poverty than the United States" Hmm,i dare to say Germany (as in any other socialist country) is doing a god job leveling the differences,not preventing poverty."Preventing" and"leveling" are 2 different things,please do not confuse them. Those benefits comming from other taxes are at politican diposal.It depends which givernment is elected and hw it change the legislations.I do not know situation in US,but in Germany you must wait for a doctor even 2-3 months to get appointment.If you acuse pains you may go dirrectly to a hospital,but a visit to a doctors is an aventure( due to long covid i want to have a heart ultrasound image for my child- i need to wait almost 3MONTHS for a procedure of 30-35 minutes ; please do not get over excited about german medical system). For your very old relatives the system helps,but for a family with over 100k brutto/year ,paying over 12k euro/year and still did not get what it need in time,the situaion is not so bright.And keep in my that those over 12k euros/year are only the employe part-> double it and observe what si the actuall spent on health system, put it together with the benefits ( good only in acse of emergency) and ...yeah..i will not be so enthusiastic ( i live in Germany since almost 12 years,these are rela numbers,facts)
@@bogrusu6112 Yea, not an accurate reflection in my opinion. It so very much depends on where you live, and what doctor you need. I was new to Cologne, here in Germany that is, and I got a regular appointment online in three days time for a really good specialist (Otolaryngologist), with regular public insurance; might I add no waiting time (thats very rare though). I had the same experience thus far in Munich, Frankfurt and Berlin for different GPs and specialists. An agreed-upon issue is getting shrink sessions, there are normally several months or even up to a year waiting times depending on specialization and region. And Germany definitely does do a better job at preventing poverty. Look at the stats. Poverty in the US is MAD. But Germany isn't close to perfect by a long shot... The Netherlands or Scandinavian countries are on a better track, with far smaller populations though.
Won't last as all the German illegals over tax the system. In the USA if your poor or illegal you get health care for next to nothing but soon as you start making extra money over 50k/yr then your punished with huge premiums that negates your extra pay unless the company you work for pays it. Whoa to the self employed.
@@jasonblatz5969 True, and thats if you have healthcare.
I think what also needs to be mentioned when talking about the salaries, as you have also started to do, is that in the US you can be fired from your job any second and basically without any reason. In Germany you will be pretty safe in that regard. Not to say it doesn’t happen, but it is much harder to do in Germany than in the US for a company. Also, another thing that I feel like needs to mentioned is that in the US it is important to get a University education, whereas in Germany there are apprenticeships available, where you can still make a pretty good living afterwards. It is a system that makes it more accessible to anyone, no matter what their parents can afford or where they come from. This obviously can’t be included in those salaries but it has a huge impact on the possibilities that you have in Germany provided by the government.
Agreed. Alot of those comparisons take into account what's payed into the various systems but not what you get in return. I'm fully aware some of those statistics might be hard to come by and in absence of detailed data ballparking it and then handwaving is fair enough. It's a youtube video, not an academic dissertation after all, but some questions I'm curious about:
1. What % of their annual income do people lose due to gaps in employment by hire and fire policies? Statistical average ofc, since it can't be applied to the example of Steve & Co, who are currently employed. 😉
2. The retirement plan: Would putting ~3% into a 401K actually bump your retirement payment to the same levels the german system does? How much would they have to put in to have the equal outcome would be the big question, rather than just making them pay the same with unknown output.
3. What's the % of income and so on lost due to things of maternity or sick leave which tends to be unpaid in the US (mostly)? How many unpaid vacation and sick days do people in the chosen demographics typicall take? What's the impact?
4. Normalize the income to average annual hours worked. How many hours per year do people in the US put in to earn that annual salary vs germany (including overtime hours, vacation days, etc.).
Still, very very informative and I would *love* to see a part two with more details on how life in germany and US impacts Steve + Max and their families. Big thumbs up!
Excellent points. I would like to make a video in the future touching on job security and the at-will employment laws in the US. Fascinating stuff.
@@TypeAshton it’s interesting to read all the comments from Germans expressing such fear of job loss. I’d be interested to know more about that. It really seems to be a mentality difference between Germans and Americans. Why the lack of confidence in their employability? Do all the employment laws make it difficult to change jobs? I think most Americans have confidence in their ability to do a good job and not get fired! If the company itself goes under (which happened to me), if you have marketable skills you should have no trouble landing a new job. In my case, the new firm turned out to be far superior to the failed one.
@@sitraahra1778 a 401K is your own private retirement savings, which often the employer matches to some extent. You manage the investments, so it can go up or down depending on whether you keep it in conservative or risky investments. This is separate from government Social Security payments, which are mandatory and based on on an input - output model.
I don’t think you can really generalize about the other issues you raise. They are going to vary greatly based on the particular employer, employee, state laws, etc.
@@annamc3947 Thanks for the clarification regarding the 401K. I thought it was a way to pay extra into the state retirement system to get more out later, not simply getting extra benefits for your investments into a private retirement fond.
Regarding the others: Yes, I'm aware that this will vary wildly between employers and sectors and reliable stats are (presumably) hard to come by. I was simply curious about averages in that regard.
Excellent video Ashton! But as others mentioned, what would be a real eye-opener is if you apply your findings to none university or low skill workers. Take a cashier at your local Rewe or a kindergarten employee and I am quite sure the benefits of living in Germany will become much more obvious.
Agreed. I would like to make a video in the future looking at a different range of incomes and employment types.
@@TypeAshton It would be great, I was arguing in some (one of this kind) under video comments and use our tax calculator for minimum wage single mom. I used maternal and parental leave as an income, while for US single mom I used nothing. Roughly in 5 year period it gets to thousands of difference for poor lady in my country (also I used paid vacation same way)
Of course (surely not) I use only guesses for US minimum wage single mom based of comparison videos, not so high quality sources as you did.
@@TypeAshton I would appreciate that type of video. My general idea is that the poorer you are, the better the EU gets, but that there is also a point where you get rich enough that the US is better. This video does a good job of describing the "average family" but I'd like to know how it is for a min wage worker, an average worker, and an upper class worker/manager/owner.
I think that here comes another important, altough (kinda) non-economic factor - how a better financial/social status of low income families influences things like crime rates, etc. - I think that when someone is living in a family where there is certain level of safety/stability (not having to worry, that someone will die or go bankrupt in case of sickness, disability, etc.) it has significant effect on the future of that person, whether it is commiting a crime out of neccessity, anger or whatever. Outside of pure economic, individual benefits of a person living in one system or another, what is the general influence on the society, and how (in the end), this benefits or harms life of said person. I think that this is where lies a significant difference between a highly capitalistic and more of a welfare based state.
@@colinmarshall6634 Yes. By living in Europe I learned that financial equality means being equally poor
Great video! Just a small correction: 13:35 Solidaritätszuschlag is paid by everyone above the threshold income, not just those living in former West Germany.
Your video on this very sensitive topic is great. The big takeaway for me is not only the bigger employee rights (and therefore safety) and "ease of mind" in Germany but the feeling of more freedom because of it.
What triggers me most in the general debate is the US-American inability or unwillingness to differentiate between "social" and "socialist" policies, to differentiate between a European socialist welfare state and the socialistic dystopia of the Soviet Union and its satellite states.
Social welfare is based on the social consensus of our societies. We may sometimes moan about high taxes and high contributions to the "Sozialversicherung", and we may also point out profiteers of the system, but we also acknowledge that if bad fortune befalls us we may have to rely on the system.
E.g. When one of my sons was diagnosed with Asperger's the administration paid for a "Schulbegleitung" (a person who went to school with him to help him with his social problems in school), after-school care, and once a week a special program where a group of autistic children could hone their social skills. It cost about 6000 Euros every "complete" month (no holidays, no vacations) for five years so app. more than a quarter of a million Euros. Since then the Arbeitsagentur (unemployment agency) financed several programs to make him fit for work and get him an apprenticeship so in 2 years he will be contributing back to the system. I don't know these costs but I'm sure we couldn't have afforded this on our own financial means. To watch my son grow from a troubled kid with no outlook of ever finding (and holding) a job to becoming a responsible adult who is able to stand on his own legs is priceless.
I'm happy for your son to achieve all that. I know that autism can take many different forms and that some people need help for a long time, especially with things like taking care of your flat etc. (because, your job can be your interest and you can just get lost in it because of that). And social skills like staying on contact with people even if nothing important is going on, calling people, looking at them, understanding joking/irony/sarcasm... there's so much. And I really do love that the state does help everyone to be able to achieve something, even if living at a "care center" and working in a more protected environment (still has it's downsides, but it also does offer security) or even more social security in regular jobs etc.
So, again, all the best for your son and that he is able to continue to achieve what he wants to achieve in life. 🙂
Yes, perpetuating ignorance of socialism.
@@hellkitty1442 Thanks a lot.
i always have to laugh (a really sad laugh) when americans (intentionally?) misunderstand the difference, when they oppose our _social_ healthcare while they each have a _socialistic_ security number, as well as police and firefighters (whom they don't personally pay themselves), etc
Hi there - First, thank you so much for watching and for enjoying the video. As you caught in this video, the use of the title with "Socialism" in quotes is a tounge-in-cheek word play into how many Americans view Universal Healthcare, Tuition-Free Education and other programs that go along with the social democracy and social contract that we have in countries like the US. For me, the recent debate on Universal Pre-K really hit home for this. Those who supported it in Congress were labeled as "radical leftists" despite 4 states already offering such programs.
This was a fantastic, clear, and objective comparison. As a childless person living working in Germany for three years now (and thus pays German taxes on a German salary), with significant education debt from the U.S., sometimes I really feel like I have the worst of both worlds from a purely economic perspective. However, I still feel like I have an overall better quality of life in Germany through greater social and economic stability & cohesion, a more sensible and less corrupt political system, far lower violent crime rates, far greater worker protection in the law, and a much greater ability to travel, which I personally value. However, as you mentioned at the end, the one aspect I would have liked to see which significantly alters the comparison is the enormous difference in the cost of housing and transportation. Germans can "afford" to have a significantly lower take-home pay because comparable housing anywhere in Germany would require perhaps double the salary in the U.S. for such housing in any U.S. city. I would say my 1 BR apartment in Frankfurt is perhaps twice the value of my terrible studio in Washington, D.C... and I still pay less in rent here.
well interestingly i live out in the rural in germany semiclose to munic and my inlaws live rural semiclose to chicago and we have much more expensive rent here than they would there
On the other hand this housing/rent argument also can go the other way around. I do think that americans with an above average income can and do afford larger houses. But I do agree that a comparison of purchasing power has to be done as well when comparing the income.
In addition to that: child care is not free throughout entire Germany. It can be up to 4k/year.
But I do understand that there are so many factors influencing this comparison. Hence, it is very very difficult to get an exact number and I did like how you went through these important stuff step by step.
I guess the best way financially is to grow up and study in Germany and move to the US, hm? ;)
" objective comparison"? I would say the author tried this.Still not a complete picture ( very difficult to do a "real" comparision). Regarding child care: i've understood the costs in US are extremly high.But in Germany they are not so low as presented here.The parents must pay minimum 100 Euros/month/child-> those + 6k euros/year for a family with 2 childerns became actually (in best case!) only +3k. If you add to picture that in slightly bigger cities is difficult to get a place for your clid care,then the problem became quite complicated( you must put on a waiting list your child 1 year in advance to be sure you catch that place to child care) . If you are lucky enough to be family of doctors then you are forced to hire a nanny(not much time left for chlidrens) .I know case (in a very small town in Germany ,not a big city!) which pays 800 euros/month for a nanny ( plus regular child care costs) .As you see the difference decreases (is not so spectacular anymore).If i add the fact that the example of a fmaily with 2 childrens needs and uses this state child care system ONLY for 8 years (at most) ,but it pays the taxes for 40 years,please do the math who and what is winning.
Let's not forget that the US has a much higher home ownership rate. I'm a bus driver in manhattan for the MTA by wife also works for the state. Twenty five we bought a house 125 it's now payed off and we live rent free. The house is value at about 500 at present.
On the other hand, American families typically own their homes. I’m now 61 and my house purchased in 1997 is paid off. I still have to pay property taxes, but they can only rise 2% per year. If Germans are paying rent for their entire lives and don’t accumulate generational wealth, that wouldn’t be acceptable to many Americans.
Great video! Two things that you could have factored in when comparing the families: 1) cost of childbirth, 2) the cost of staying home with the kids before the age of 2, or cost of daycare if you can't be a stay-at-home parent for 2 years.
Day care in the usa if so costly. I spent 88k in 10 years. Health care is crazy. This is the only country you can lost what your work for your whole life just by getting sick. Americans need to wake up and get their head out of the sand. Try learn more about the rest of the world. Your find out that we Americans are falling behind a fast rate. Those whole have a problem with video are ignorant and uneducated. Not even at par with the person who made this video.
It's already 45 mins long... It's to give an idea
I agree those are great additions for follow up video! I also geek out on these comparisons having lived in the US and Germany and wondering what the bottom line might look like.
Maybe the cost of groceries or gas and electricity bills?
Cost of childcare is a major issue living in the US. However, we can list other things that are so much better. what is better? well, that is the question socialists and capitalists will never agree on, for the next 1000 years. Priority is not the same. example...
1.Main focus of capitalist: make your own way. More opportunity for building wealth faster than anywhere on earth.
2.Main focus of socialist: Social net that will cover close to 100% of all services. free education, free healthcare...etc.
I am amazed how much detail you have put into this. Me and my family moved from Germany to the US for a total of 4 years as expats. Meanwhile we are back in Germany since a few years. You are right, the differences may be marginal in the end. It really is not about right or wrong or better or worse. However, growing up in Germany I personally prefer the "peace of mind" safety net here. If one's family manages to stay healthy and well-employed at all times, everything is perfectly fine in the US. Much less so if that isn't the case. Well done!
Also lived in the states for 3 years. The peace of mind back home is priceless.
"Marginal." My wife is a doctor, in the USA she would make $250K a year. I'm in IT, I made $176K the last year I worked in the USA. In Germany we don't make $200K combined. Our after tax earnings are 1/4th what they could be in the USA and also real estate is massively more expensive in Germany than in the USA.
@@eustacemcgoodboy9702 i guess if you're in the top 10%, you have it financially better in the US but that comes at a cost, a cost of your fellow citizens, like your wife's Nurses.
@@makuru.42 Well if nurses don't like making $100K in the U.S. they can come make $28K in Europe.
@@eustacemcgoodboy9702 yeah but some people aren't that high earners and they'll be fucked if they can't pay if their child has cancer. I'd rather pay my taxes instead of plannin ahead for any unexpected shit to come
Great comparisson video! I have certainly learnt a lot :)
One thing that comes to mind for me is transportation cost. Living in a (Western) German village, I can reach my job, doctors and shops for everyday needs by bike or a very short trip by car. If I worked in the city, I could buy a monthly pass for the train or bus, which both are reasonably clean and comfortable to take. If I had children, they could walk to elementary school or get a subsidized bus ticket to get to secondary school in the next town. The car-centric sprawl of suburban America however forces you to drive everywhere, so expenses for fuel and maintenance are a considerable issue, I imagine. Walking or biking are often impossible, public transportation is mostly non-existent or run-down and unpleasant. Maintenance of a significant road network in a relatively low-density area, generating less tax-income per squarefoot, is also a burden on the community as a whole.
Overall, I personally would rather stay in Europe for the freedom from impoverishment and fear of losing all security, than to move to America.
so relevant and most americans really have no idea how much they truly spend on their personal vehicles
Definitely a hidden cost, as an American having a car is expensive even if you only use it occasionally and commute to work via bike/etc. Since your legally obligated to pay insurance on the car and gas and possibly pay for a parking spot depending where you live along with probably other costs I am missing. I live near the areas bike path that goes throughout our urban region and can use that to get to work on my electric scooter. Having car-centric sprawl also can force students to take a bus to school or have their parents drive them instead of them having the liberty to bike to school and gain more independence.
Lived in New York for 13 years...left for Europe never regret it, well done video, a lot of work on it, keep up and thank you my fellow American
Hello,
I am always considering taking a loan to one day go to usa and live there.
Could we have a conversation on how life was and why you chose Europe ?
Thanks,
Omkar
Thanks! Your work deserves recognition of more than a „thumbs up“ and subscription. You are the only Americans living in Germany whose channel I still subscribe to. Not that I disapprove of the others, but I had so many subscriptions I couldn‘t keep up and have dropped channels that do not serve my primary purposes in watching UA-cam (learning French, news, and documentaries). Sorry, I‘m a bit late, but congratulations on the new member in spe of the family!
Wow, thank you so so much for all of your generous support. We are thrilled to make it onto your regular watch-list of videos and sincerely appreciate the discussion you add in the comments section to our videos. We hope you and your loved ones have a great start to the new year.
The most generous donation that I have ever seen to a youtube video.
@@Petersvensson22 Not really. It is a one-time donation. Many UA-cam sites have Patrons who donate far larger amounts on a regular basis. I know of at least one UA-cam channel where the top tier for Patrons is over $1000 a month - and it has more than just a few at this level.
OK, I have to take that back. The channel I was thinking about has a top tier of „only“ €535.50 a month.
@@michaelmedlinger6399 You are comparing apples with oranges. I never mentioned anyting about Patron. The usual donations that I see to a specific video is around 5-20$. Although the title is very clickbaity "American Capitalism vs German "Socialism". There is no socialism is europe. Germany is even ranking higher than Usa on The Heritage Foundations Econimic Freedom index. Could have called it "American capitalism vs German capitalism" but that does not sounds as exciting.
@@Petersvensson22 The word "socialism" in the title here is contained by quotation marks. It acknowledges that what so many Americans describe as "socialism" isn't in fact Socialism.
American expat here. I moved to Germany in 2012, and since arriving I have had 4 operations, amounting to several weeks of in-hospital care. My total cost, practically 0€. I have never even seen a bill for this care. I am on German public health insurance, and AOK is my provider. The peace of mind that comes with this is amazing. Overall, my life in Germany is inmeasurabley better than it was in the US. I live in southern Bavaria, in the foothills of the Alps. Crime and drugs practiacally do not exist here. The air is clean , the water pure. I can go outside without thinking about my safety. Yes, my take home pay is quiet a bit less than if I had stayed in the US, but my job is secure, I work no overtime, my employer never bothers me after hours or on weekends, and I can work 100% remote. I get 30 paid days of vacation per year, plus up to 15 paid holidays per year (depending upon the year and if the holidaty falls on a weekend that year). I have up to 6 weeks of paid sick leave with 100% pay, and then it decrease to I believe 60% of your pay. I am a software engineer with 15+ years of experience.
Poor citizens had to pay for you. How lucky for them. Also, how do you know your job is secure? There's no such thing anywhere.
@@zuzanazuscinova5209 I pay taxes and I pay for medical insurance, so no the citizens did not have to pay for me. Also, Software Engineers are in high demand where I live.
You hit the nail. "Peace of mind" has so much value. A lot of people underestimate this. Don't work yourself from pay-check to pay-check.
@@barryvandertas2234 I agree. My wife is a nurse (they don't make nearly enough compared to the US, but this is one way the cost of healthcare is kept in check). Our combined gross income is circa 100k per year. We live a good life here, and still have money left over every month to save for retirement. If we lived in the US still, we would probably be making double that amount, but while living there I never seemed to be making "enough" just to keep up with monthly living expenses. I was a soldier for 7 years before entering the civilian workforce, so I know how being poor feels. The American people have been duped into thinking that they have the best life and most freedom in the world, and this is coming from an ex-patriot who served his country unconditionally for many years. This is simply not true any longer, maybe it once was post WW2 era. I could go on ranting about this forever, but I will get off of my soap box now, lol.
@@bsrhoadI am a little late. I am a software engineer originally from Bavaria and have been living in the US for the past 20years. I would like to connect!
Thanks for this thorough dive into the different systems! My only suggestion would be to compare the average cost of living and purchasing power and not just the disposable income. I think this would be a better/fairer comparison than just converting the currencies. Afaik, the cost of living is generally higher in the US, so even higher income doesn't necessarily mean higher living standards.
depends on where you live, if you live in NYC, LA or san fran, 220k salary wont get you that far. but if you make 220k and live in the mid west of america, you are making like top 5% of the state. live like kings.
Great video as usual! The results were about what i expected, the young healthy American makes more money, but the German one has the social security safety net, but as soon as you look into families the table turn fast.
a friend of mine emigrated to the US in her tweens, but was forced to come back here because she got unexpected pregnant with twins after her first two children. Even tho both parents were working they could not effort to raise 4 kids there.
Here in Germany she never got a new job, she stayed at home with the kids and her husband is working a normal blue collar job and they are doing as fine as anybody else...
Young, healthy and well educated. I doubt that it is still that great in the US if you look at someone with a lower income. The US is a great country to live in of you have the money in my opinion, but I would not want to be there if I was struggeling in some way.
@@j.a.1721 Well, as an immigrant who came to the USA with 0. I do not believe I was going to land in Germany and they were going to offer me a job making 5 thousand dollars a month. Without a college degree in stem? no way. In America illegal people make that much painting houses. Which illegal people? the same ones who are getting deported all the time. How do I know that? I work with immigration. When people think about America they think about my mother a person with no education living in NYC. She does not have to live in NYC. She can live in Hazelton PA and get the same services for a fraction of the cost and own a house while working 3 days a week in a factory. Yes, health care. Well she is a cancer survivor and she speaks no english at all. Can you do that in Germany in 5 years? I highly doubt it.
@@johncmordan I am glad it worked out for you and your mother like that. Making 5000 right after immigrating there is impressive.
But in general, social mobility is higher in most European countries than in the US. So I wonder if your example is really a typical one? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index
@@j.a.1721 Imagine you dont speak the language. They drop you in Germany or they drop you in the USA? You are telling me there are more resources in Germany to insert you into society? Is is easier? can you work illegally in Germany? I came to the USA and was working illegally then I got my papers. Can an immigrant do that in Germany and make a decent salary? You guys only view professionals moving into Europe but what about a Dominican with no training? no education? no visa? can that person get ahead easily in Germany make a decent income while finding a way to become a legal resident?
@@johncmordan tbh I don't want people immigrating illegally and working illegally at all. If I was a refugee I would definitely prefer Germany over the US though.
I, as an American engineer, just spent a month in Europe, including Germany, and found the expenses far less than in USA. Meals in restaurants were about 30% cheaper. In talking to many Europeans about housing costs, my impression is that Europeans pay half of what Americans pay. Also, both my wife and I caught colds and were both seen the same day by a doctor and the cost was only 40€. Oh, and we felt safer in Europe. I'm retired and on Medicare, but I still pay $200/month for supplemental insurance. And I have to take cancer drugs costing $13,000 per year. Those drugs would cost 3 times more without the insurance. Since 99% of adult Americans must have a car, transportation costs could be considered a tax on one's income.
Where do you reside in the US? Cost of living can varied a lot if you live in a midwestern rural town versus NYC, SF, LA.
@@dezafinado not a lot of Midwestern rural towns hiring $150k+ a year mechanical engineers.
There's some, but most are clustered in Boston, Denver, Houston, etc.
@@jayceh You're right but madhiker is retired so he/she can live somewhere less expensive. The cost of living in western Europe has been more expensive for decades (with exceptions) but in recent years the US has outpaced them. Although we have more natural resources, monopolies are running wild.
Yes, eating out and renting / buying property is rather cheap in Germany (also compared to neighboring countries, except the eastern ones).
Especially with the weak EUR and strong USD (in comparison), it has become even better in the past months.
@@svr5423 the strength of the doller is peged with energy prices. The cheaper oil gets the weaker the doller gets. 2 years ago the doller was less than 80% the value of the the euro.
I'm American and my wife is German. We married in Germany, and lived there for many years before moving to the US. It's very difficult to compare the two systems with equivalency. For example, Im an experienced engineer in the aerospace sector, I would take a 50% pay cut to work in Germany. You will probably see the same trend for doctors salaries ... There are also a lot of nuances and detractors in the German tax code, for example, if you were to work a bunch of OT to get ahead, you could easily find yourself in a higher tax bracket, and end up giving a majority of that extra to taxes. Also, both partners don't pay the same percentage of taxes. Usually the one that makes more pays less taxes, and the one that makes less pays a higher percentage. Also, unmarried workers haul the freight in terms of tax liability... I've heard of rates close to 45%. Also, my US company pays my health care premiums. I pay around $300 for insurance, and a small amount on medication etc. Health care cost for me don't represent an appreciable quotient of my overall salary. I recognize that some American families struggle to afford medicine, but that isn't an issue for my family. The German system does a good job maintaining and taking care of a middle class. There is more security in terms of safety nets if you loose your job, or if you have a child, etc. Everyone can get some medical treatment if they get a major illness regardless of your employment status or how much money you have. I agree with a majority of your points, but I think you are looking at the cross section in middle of the bell curve and making a direct comparison. I think if you look at poor people, you are much better to live in Germany. Middle class may be a wash, or slightly better in Germany depending on a few variables... The comparison starts to fall apart for high paying professions, and some other special cases.
I would be interested in comparison of Real estate cost, and general quality of life. I think these two topics would even be more difficult to compare apples to apples US VS DE.... Cheers
The thing is, there are no high paying professions in Europe. Maybe soccer players lol.
@@zuzanazuscinova5209what
Everything correct, if you are rich and healthy things work very well in the U.S. It is just that you can not predict that everything remains like that, unless you really have a lot of money accumulated in real estate or your bank account. One point you should take into consideration is that the real value of money decreases with the amout you already have. If you are offered a game which doubles your earnings with a likelyhood of X, but also makes your income zero with a likelyhood of X, this makes the income oyou can expect in average remain the same. But as for quality of life, this just slightly improves with twice the money, while it gets a catastrophy with no money at all, so the game would in average reduce your quality of life. From European point of view life in the US is a bit like such a game - if everything works fine you are a bit better of (significant better of in terms of money, a bit in life quality) , if things go bad you are really worse of in the US.
What an incredible video! I love how your approach is always data driven and scientific without being to theoretical AND you are able to present the facts clearly and easy to comprehend. Love these kinds of videos, keep on the great work.
Wow, thank you! So glad you enjoyed it.
Exactly! More media need to show their data, at least in footnotes with links in the description, as Rezo does in his "destruction" videos
Oh yes, THANK YOU for that work! I am really impressed! Parts of the family here and over there it is allways a thing! Especially because it changed so much the last 20 years!
Und ja, Deutschland ist KEIN sozialistisches Land (:
Totally agreed! It's nice to see an objective look at complicated issues without dumbing them down yet making the points understood to the average person. In a world that is continually becoming more polarized, it's nice to see some high quality signal in all of the noise.
YOu are double counting. If I pay for my education that means my parents did not pay for my education. You can not assume I paid for my daughter's education and then assume my daughter also paid for her education. That is double counting. Either parents pay for their kids education or kids pay for their own education. You can not have the cake and eat it too.
Really excellent comparison. I’ve been living in Germany for nearly 24 years now and have been trying to make this calculation … roughly … in my head, as long as I have been here. This is the most comprehensive comparison I’ve seen yet. There is just one more aspect I think that you should include to make your comparison even more comprehensive and representative: property taxes. In Germany, I think that it’s fair to say that we pay a lot less in property tax than Americans do. While we’re at it, it seems that mortgage interest rates have also been historically lower in Germany than in the United States. OK, the latter topic is actually related to a comparison of purchasing power, but I think that the property tax comparison relates more directly to your comparison, and I would love to see your comparison augmented with this aspect… also because I think that it would tip the scales even more in favor of us Germans 😉
Property Tax in Germany is about to change it will be higher in 2025
@ It will still be nowhere near what they pay in the US: Property taxes in the US are used by local government to finance schools and other local government services and are usually based on your total value of all of your property.
@ Not really. They need to change the calculation basis to to achieve a fairer system (while as always the definition of 'fair' is relative). While for some it will be more expensive then, for others it will become cheaper. The total tax revenue per municipality from this tax after transformation is not allowed to be higher than it gas been before.
@ That will actually depend on a lot of factors and will be different for different locations. It depends on how the expected rise in value holds up to the real development for each individual property.
1) Grundstücke, deren Wert stärker gestiegen ist als den alten Berechnungsgrundlagen zur Folge: Yep, für diese Grundstücke werden die Steuern steigen
2) Grundstücke, deren Wert sich im erwarteten Rahmen entwickelt hat: Die Höhe der Grundsteuer wird sich praktisch nicht verändern
3) Grundstücke, deren Wertsteigerung unter den Erwartungen geblieben ist: Für diese Kategorie werden die Steuern nach dem neuen Berechnungsschlüssel tatsächlich sinken.
Wie sich die Situation für jeden einzelnen Grundbesitzer verändern wird kann daher stark unterschiedlich sein.
In 2018, the last year we paid property taxes in a suburb of Albany, NY, we paid over 8,000 dollars. This money was used to finance the local government and school districts, which in Germany comes out of general taxes. I agree that it would have been appropriate to add that to the calculation.
There are tons of videos on this subject, and your video is the best of the best. That's because of the obvious level of research you've done on the topic. It's not just "scratching the surface" kind of research, but real, good and deep research. That shows, and is why I love your videos so much. Thank you !!
Amazing!
Greetings from the "Schwabenland". As a native German I can tell that all the information given is absolutely accurate. I am impressed how you as an American know the German systems better than many native Germans.
Since you were askin the audience about feedback: I think you made an excellent job. It was very comprehensive, right on point, a good level of detailing! DON'T CHANGE YOUR STYLE! IT'S PERFECT AS IT IS!
And since I am thinking about moving to the United States, this helps me the other way around. Thanks for all the effort! I saved a lot of time doing research thanks to you.
2 year bachelor degree earns 67.000 euro ? In germany? No way you gonna earn that much so early in Netherlands. If this is true, im going to move to Germany. Then so weird a colleague of mine is German and moved to Netherlands. Master degree and does not by far earn that much.
@@HermanWillems I agree with you. Salaries are lower in Germany than what the video says. Also, I don't think it is realistic to say that people in Germany get a degree so young. I have the impression that it takes much longer to get a degree in Germany than in the US.
@@HermanWillems You don't get that money in Germany either. That's a lie. lol
Remember that Germany has value added tax. Things are a lot cheaper in United States. Except for housing😂
Very interesting topic👍
For next week I would love to see a comparison between the average working time per week, the hourly wage and of course like mentioned a overview on the costs of living in both countries
yes , I was thinking the same thing myself. How would this income compensated for the vacation days etc.
There is another guy im sporadically following called NALF on youtube. And he has compared the american grind to the German Feierabend culture a lot.
If love to hear what the Black Forest Family thinks about that!
Next week's video is going to be aimed at picking up where this video left off and trying to take into consideration "cost of living factors" such as housing, transportation, utilities, etc... However, I do think a future video would be great on touching more on hourly wages and the affect of at-will employment laws in the USA.
Watched your video from beginning to end - truly appreciate the immense work you have put into this! Apart from tangible pay there are untangible differences: 6 weeks paid vacation vs 10 days, social cohesion, quality of roads and public services, and finally peace of mind. Things that made me decide not to emigrate the US 40 years ago. There is no ideal country, however Canada and Northern Europe get pretty close. All the best to your lovely family!
Thanks for mentioning the different amount of vacation. Actually that means the German salary per hour is about 9% higher - but it also raises the cost for vacation because you can stay away three times as long and the hotel bill will add up to more :-)
@@wora1111 Just if you travel - not if you stay at home.
@@wora1111 And it is not only vacation; sick leave is at least as important. I think it is so important to recover well from sickness before going back to work.
@@Edda-Online I know. I had several operations and the corresponding recovery periods. But I probably never would have thought about it before it became relevant
I paid about $2500/child/month in Boston for daycare. Our monthly insurance costs around $700-$800, but for a family to be fully covered it need to reach $12K within a year, which is simple to do since one night in the hospital in Boston will run between $10K-$18K.
My son got sick and needed to be in the ICU for two weeks, and the total bill was over $200K. If we didn't have insurance then God knows what we would've done.
Also being higher on the income bracket our combined taxes is close to 30% anyways...adding 8-10% to 401K easily tip us closer to the 40% amount but we had to be mindful of any hospital bills and other nasty surprises.
I think you underestimate the cost of college and tuition funds. There is no way you can get away with only $5K/year for a child, you would need closer to $10K/year per child at this point since annual college Tuition costs around $60K in private schools not including room and board. With room and board you are estimated to pay around $80K/year...four years will $300K worth of higher education. With inflation going the way it is now, by the time my youngest (in 18 years) the higher education cost should double that, closer to $500-$600K for four years.
AMERICA where profit rules.
Buddy you hit the nail on the head. You can lose your home in this country so easy. I lived in Germany and my family are German as I’m American. Even going to the doctor in Germany with out insurance is so much less then usa
I'm 51 year old german. Free kindergarten and school. Then an apprenticeship, free technical college entrance qualification and free study. What society paid for my training, they now get back through my work and benefit from it. I am very grateful that a child from the lower middle class was able to do this.
I have a friend with an autoimmune disease whose medication costs more than her income. Thanks to these drugs, she is still able to work, which otherwise would not have been possible for a long time. A person generally generates more value within a society than what he earns in money. Furthermore, she can take care of her aging parents and does not live on welfare.
These situations are a win for the whole society.
In my sociotope there is a dictum: _Do we really want end-stage capitalism, like in the USA?_
Unfortunately we are on our way...
Also, the numbers crouched in here are for the more fortunate folks who earn decent money. If you look at the average earnings, it's less optimistic for US workers. Average US earnings are about $36k pa for young adults and about $50k for 30yo who already got some work experience. Im Germany it's about €39k pa (before taxes) for "
@@Jackassik very good points. We have a winner takes all mentality and poor people are seen as a source of income by large corporations that petition the government to pay them for servicing the poor. Homelessness, prison, housing, medical care, etc...are all good examples of companies doing well by charging ridiculous prices at our tax payers expense.
I remember NYC put homeless people into fancy five star hotels in NYC and charged tax payers $500/night for each homeless person during COVID, while I was struggling in my $2000/month studio while being taxed at 35-40%. Thinking how my tax dollars are used really depresses me.
Education costs: is clear they are higher in US.According to your estimation it will costs 600k.For 100k euro brutto/year in Germany the taxes are around 25k/year.Multipply with 40(how many years one is active and paying those 25% average taxes).You'll get 1 mil euros in taxes ( at least).You still get aprox 500k euros saving ( after a life time work).And then let's compare what you get for this money: in Germany you'get what is offered.No chance to get something too good ( but with some "luck" you may get even sub-mediocre quality of education- no chance to chose what you need/want.I'm not fmailiar with US system,but i presume ( with sime real luck) you may get for those money the chance to access some (at least) acceptable level of education.If i may compare the top university from US with german ones( in100 top ONLY 3 german universities,the best german only on 49th!) ,then you'll see my point: you get what you pay for ( do not expect good quality at smaller prices -not yet invented)
I don't mind about videos being 40+ minutes long, especially when they're well made like yours. I'm going to watch the second video as well and then share both with my friends here in Brazil, as well as in USA, Canada and Germany.
Vielen Dank und liebe Grüße!
Great Video, but one thing that is somewhat missing is the average cost of living in the USA vs Germany. Which after a little research is surprisingly higher in the USA than Germany, especially Groceries surprised me, which I would have thought would be cheaper in the US.
The food is cheaper but you pay more money for it... 😜
@@K__a__M__I 🤣👍
I think car insurance is a lot more expensive in the USA.
And vacation is also a different.
Yes but she said buying Power, so she does not need to include that costs
Coming from the US, my groceries always seem so cheap in Germany, even with the inflation factored in now. Eating out can be pricier though (especially if I order a drink since water is not free here)
You made a good job! I work in Finance and Accounting and know how to deal with Financial Reporting and how to calculate payroll with salary, wages, income tax and social contributions. I only got in touch with american payroll six years ago when I saw how it was done there in the U.S. And I never met anyone who completely understood both systems. For the German way of tax and social contribution calculation I was really impressed about the brilliance and clarity. There are a huge number of different parameters to consider and of course, they can vary a lot from case to case.
This was the first video I saw from your channel. You won a like and a new subscriber.
WHAT AN AMAZING VIDEO! me and my husband is moving to Sweden from Texas for the reasons of security and piece of mind. To explain our choices to family and friends here in the US is very difficult and this video is explaining in such a detailed manner -exactly why we choose to move. Sweden is very similar to Germany regarding the costs of living. And since we are not in the salary "bracket" of a engineer by far - for us with a smaller income the difference in the piece of mind and social security feels even greater with our move.
I shall warn you that it is not all green meadows. Swedish health care is notorious for not being able to keep up with the flow of patiens, with queues stretching 1-3 years sometimes for acute treatments. The queue for a rental apartment in central Stockholm is around 20 years. Personally I moved from Sweden as I was tired of this while paying 60% tax on my engineer salary. Germany is much better compared.
"And since we are not in the salary "bracket" of a engineer by far - for us with a smaller income the difference in the piece of mind and social security feels even greater with our move."
which is exactly the reason why socialist ran states or countries are consistently having worse economy and less growth
@@wasdwasdedsf Yes, exactly. There is a reason why successful companies and rich people are leaving Sweden. And the past 10-20 years there has been an increase of 1 million new immigrants living in Sweden, using the welfare, but are not contributing as much. Socialist economics simply doesn't work because eventually you run out of "other peoples" money, and Sweden is already halfway there. Don't expect great health care, retirement and elder care in the future. Expect massive privatization to solve the issues.
Im not sure you are correct in the case of Sweden and especially Nordic countries. Sweden has always had better GDP growth than for example the UK. They have the third lowest state debt within the EU (around 40%, EU average is around 93%). Of course they must have issues and problems with immigration, inflation etc like others but their economy is in much better shape than many other Western countries.
I think Karl is one of those who would prefer the American model. If you have a family Sweden is still a very good place to be. The problems in the past ten years is because of the goverment has moved towards less taxation and more privatization because of people like Karl whining about the high taxes. If you are healthy and have no kids, you have to pay high taxes for sure, but the Swedish/European model would work fine here as well if taxes just went up slightly. I would also like to know what successful companies have left Sweden, that is not something that has been discussed in any of the economic newspapers (who certainly would take any decline in Swedish economic performance very seriously). I hope @AnnaErsson find happines in either Sweden or any other European country they move to. Welcome!
This is an amazing video and well researched. As a German moving to the US in my early 30s about 8 years ago there is a lot more to take into consideration though than money. My corporate job at an international financial institution is NEVER safe. There are quarterly lay off days, with people getting anxiety about it. Severance is way different. Your example of health insurance in the US is also very generous. My spouse and I have an OOP of 4.4K a year. Then you talk about seeing specialist etc. It’s ridiculous. The way of life is different. The cost of living is different. And then anxiety around your job is different. Sick days are different. Maternity leave is different. I doubled my net salary moving here, but that doesn’t mean anything. Not to mention 401k contributions etc. And I don’t even have student debt (growing up in Germany). It’s the quality of life that’s better.
ok if US is that bad why dont you move back to Germany at 38 private health care will cost you about 700 EUR a months means close to 9000 EUR a year. German good docs all moved to CH US and Norway...but hey if you are sick...they wont be that bad the specialists.
As always, so well researched, I just love your videos! And I couldn't agree more with most people here: quality of life, vacation time (and quality), healthcare costs etc. Are things that I'd never ever exchange for a bit more income. It happens so fast that you need medical attention, and those bills add up quickly.
while those "special events" (illness, job lost, etc) don't happen, it's nice to have a little more money, but when it happens it has dramatic effects that nobody can handle by himself. applying averages to these factors is like gambling in a casino or a lottery (with the opposite sign before the amount): for many people there is no big loss in reallife or a win in a casino, but some people will encounter it and then have the jackpot in the casino or go bancrupt in reallife. but if everybody takes a small part of it all the time (like every insurance should do), those few who have extreme events will not "fall out of society".
eg health insurance: for 30 years, i got nothing back from my (reasonable) contributions, but during the last decade i overcame two cancers and other health problems, and it didn't financially change my life at all since the only thing i had to pay myself was less than 100€ per year for prescription drugs and a total of 700€ in a decade for several hospital stays and rehab (10€ per day for food and room). any "statistical average" of those costs is meaningless when you have just a little more money while "everything works well" but live with the daily fear of losing a job and good health insurance and suffer other consequences, all at the same time.
_eagerly waiting for the next episode that will tell us how much money will really be "left over", after starting with relatively minor differences at the end of this episode and then needing to pay for food, rent, utilities, transport, insurances (besides health), etc_
Thank you so much for watching. I'm glad you enjoyed the video - and I totally agree, the peace of mind is invaluable.
@@Anson_AKB Same situation here. And it is very comforting when the only subject you have to think about is how to get well again, everything else being taken care of.
There are times when you can and should give to the community and then there will be times, when you have to appreciate them giving back.
Hi! Loved your video. Like many other people in the comment section I would love to see the same comparison for lower income individuals/families, especially considering how much money is needed in each country to hit a certain minimum standard of living. Also it would be great if in the next video you could include/apply shocks (e.g. longterm unemployment, health crisis, general economic downturn) to these examples of yours. I think it would be very interesting in the case of lower income families.
I was looking for this type of comparison for a while. The closest to it was the one by the Young family in Denmark. This is so well structured and easy to understand, thanks for the research and the effort. It's appreciated.
Great comparison. One thing just made me wonder: the German family didn’t have to pay for child care as they lived in Berlin. However Berlin is quite unique on this regard. Most families do have to pay for their childcare. The cost varies a lot depending on age, siblings etc. just like the US.
We have kids of 5 and 2 and pay 351 € for both per month.
Greetings from your neighboring „high“ Black Forest.
Well, us comparison was made with colorado. As to not offend anyone in either Berlin or US. ;) Can't have it all. I was still amazed by the €250 you get for a child. Thast what 2 childs gives me in sweden. And I have to pay ~€170 for childcare for 2 children. So, that payment really only goes towards that. Childcare costs are based on your family income though. So someone might pay less (but never more for 2 kids).
Love it. Now this is an example of someone with a college degree (or one in the family with a college degree). An example of someone without it (plumber, nurse, server, fast food chain employee) would be interesting, especially someone considered in the US a "low-skilled worker" (for example something considered an entry level job, yet there are many people staying at that stage).
Plumber, nurse or both high skill jobs in Germany, certainly not with as high pay as mechanical engineering, not even bio engineering pays that well it seems.
Again, a great video! I’m also interested to see a comparison of the less lucky people in the country. Such as: unemployed, sick, disabled, etc. And indeed it’s interesting to see what can be bought with the money you make. How expensive is ‘life’ and how happy could you be for the lucky and less fortunate people in the countries. E.g. ua-cam.com/video/FuZ5WO8xoks/v-deo.html
NUrsing is a college degree in most countries except Germany.
I've seen a video, camparing the wages Mc Donalds workers in the US and -I think it was in Denmark. Low skilled job seems to make it impossible to live a healthy life in US cities
@@betaich You do not need to learn less in Germany than you do in other countries. The difference is just how you learn the job. There is a lot other jobs, too, that you learn in the aprenticeship model in Germany that you need a college degree in the USA.
Great analysis. As someone who was a single worker in Germany, I would add one more MASSIVE perk of living in Germany. I never needed to buy a car. I only needed to pay ~500 euros per year for mass transportation. $500 in the US gets you a parking spot with no car.
yeah, car insurance is more expensive in the USA. And as you mentioned, you might not even need a car in Germany, which makes it a lot cheaper.
The German family would likely still need a car, but the single German guy could probably do without.
That's true in terms of a car. I stopped owning one 10 years ago since I live in an environment with perfect public transportation. Also, owning a car is a problem as well due to the time consuming traffic in the inner city and around where I live. However, I grew up in a less populated German area and can relate to people who need a car. PS or want a car.
I lived in a town in the US much larger than the town I now live in Germany and never had to pay for parking. Literally anywhere. And for me to get an annual ticket for the zones I would need to cover for work would cost me 2000 euro per year with DB. It would also take me an hour to get to work as opposed to the 20 to 30 minutes it takes me now. From the calculations I have made, relying on S-Bahn and U-Bahn for intra-city travel would only be slightly cheaper overall. But I have never calculated inter-city or inter-country travel to be cheaper unless you buy your tickets 6 months out. I like the flexibility of being able to jump in my car to get something for my wife at the grocery store and just go as opposed to going outside and waiting for 5 to 10 minutes for the next bus/train and then the same on my way back. YMMV
@@danshigley6638 Yes, it actually makes sense what you said at the end. It's even more complicated in some German areas where you wait way longer than 10 minutes for the next means of public transport. On weekends you might be even isolated without a car. Calculating is important but it becomes less significant once you notice lack of life quality or worse.
Germany is getting a 49€/month Ticket within the Next months. Its for all except of the ice
Ashton and Jonathan,
As usual I enjoyed this great made video. Having lived with children in both countries here some remarks.
Retirement: Comparing the 401k to the German Rentenversicherung you can compare the cost but the products are completely different in nature. The money I paid to the German Rentenversicherung is spend immediately to pay for the retirees. It’s gone! What you get is the promise that future generation will do the same thing if they can. Due to the aging of the population we in Germany know since the 80’s that this isn’t a realistic scenario. The reason why we didn’t change it, is that it’s a good system for a majority of older voters. On the other hand, my 401k is mine. Additionally my employer matches up to 10% of my contributions basically raising my salary by another 10%. You know this is common for skilled workers here in the US like shown in the example. Another point is inheritance. If I pass away, my spouse gets in the US my full 401k. In Germany she doesn’t get more than 55% in ideal condition. If my wife and I both pass away early, let’s say being 65 having made our whole life contributions but no or little withdraws the 401k is transferred to our beloved children. In Germany the money is gone. Vanished to people you don’t know.
Kindergeld: The Kindergeld is not necessarily applicable for this example. Kindergeld is the source of help for Families earning less than 80000 Euros. Families with a higher income profit from better tax brackets called Kinderfreibetrag (de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderfreibetrag). The Kinderfreibetrag works pretty much the same as in the USA, so for mid to high earning families both countries are pretty much the same. You can't apply both, so it seems for me that there is a possibility that you applied to many deductions for the German family.
Childcare: I agree that childcare is way cheaper in Germany. It´s though typically not free. I lived in Mannheim where I paid in the range of 300-400 Euros. Freiburg has also no free childcare. Berlin with a left government is a big example. But taking Berlin as an example is like taking San Francisco as an example for the US. This seems especially for families odd. Even in this areas families typically don't life there if they don't have to. Most people with families I know life outside of Berlin which is then Brandenburg with different regulations. Another point is that it's hard to get a full-time place in the KiTa and even then, you have to pick up children way earlier then in the US.
Health insurance: I pay for a similar plan like you have shown also BCBS here in the US 280USD for the whole family.
Unemployment: The unemployment benefits are caped in Germany by amount and duration. You don’t get more then 2031Eur per month (24000per year) for only 12 months. Taking Max salary of nearly 100k this is 24% for one year. This system is terrible for high earners. I’m engineer myself and learn it the hard way. My wife takes care of the children and I have a solid salary. Better then Max. I once lost my job and thought I can use the unemployment insurance to have some time to find a new job. When I found out that our income would be reduced by 70% I had no choice but to get a job as fast as possible. I learned that also in Germany I need a solid emergency fund.
Don’t get me wrong. Germany is a great country and one of the best places to live. Comparing the US to Germany is like you complaining in one of your videos that the countertop of your kitchen is not perfectly matching to your floor. This are luxury problems. Though the general trend between the two countries is in my humble opinion, that Germany is great for middle to low-income families. The US becomes more attractive the more money you make. The examples you took are imho in the range of a break even point where it’s no strong advantage for neither of the countries. So, examples well chosen. Anyway I wanted to highlight some points that I think have to be considered.
Luke
both
Really good assessment. One issue though is that for the family assessment, the big pre-school expense is only temporary for 3-5 years depending on family specifics.
The income growth is also much steeper in the US than in Germany as per your research and will probably perpetuate through retirement.
At the end of the day, they are both good systems but the US tends to generate more wealth per capita overtime.
If you dont get Sick
@@yuritarded7350 yep and if you keep your job when we have recessions. This analysis was great but a key fact is the analysis is based on if the individuals keep their jobs for 15 years.
We did the math. Raising children in Germany is way cheaper than back home. Have you seen baby formula prices in the US? Costs for education and Healthcare? We earn significantly less in Germany but somehow still manage to go on vacation to another country 30 days a year.
Do you even get 30 days off in the US?
@@BobTheTrueCactus you get paid time off and you can't use it for more than a day for fear of getting fired..🤪 if you get sick it gets taken out of your PTO and then you are f*cked! 🤣
@@0farmerjohn0 Sounds like fun!
@@BobTheTrueCactusvery few Americans get 30 or more days of vacation. When they do, it's usually only because they've been with their company for 20+ years.
@@BobTheTrueCactus in the US military you do get 30 days off annually
I lived in Germany for 16 years and I’m very familiar with my system. You did a great job, and I will share your video with all of my friends who complain about just this topic. For some, it’s almost a grounds for divorce. :-)
As a Dutch version of Max, I'm happy to pay a bit more taxes if that means I don't have to spend hours looking into all those things seperately and comparing private insurance companies to see who can give me the best deal.
A bit more XD thats 10k a year lol
@@robertmanson4439 And how far do you get with these 10K a year if you should find out you have a chronical disease or an accident that your plan does not cover? Sure, you may be lucky and get through life without major health issues - but there will always be those who are not. Who is paying for them? Not your problem as long as they die in silence?
Hi Codex 404, but you will have days off to relax and see Italy, Spain or the US for a few weeks a year, while your US counterpart will only have one week off after a full year of work. And you will probably work 36 hours a week, while the US engineer works 48 hours a week to please the boss, to enhance his career and without any guarantee that it will work out.
And if you want a career change or get extra study to get a nicer job, you can, with little costs, while the US engineer cant because he doesn't have spare time nor the money to pay for it. Compared to the US the Netherlands and Germany may have a little less luxury, but also less stress.
@@dutchman7623 I'm sure you meant this as a comment for Robert?
@@dreamdancer8212 You describe a case that happens once in 1000 cases. And even in the US you can insure yourself if you want to.
But in Germany you pay for everything and everyone, and I want to make my own decisions about my money.
I would like to see the Americans if they had to pay the welfare payments for every illegal migrant and refugee. That is exactly what is happening here in Germany. If you work 40 hours a week in Germany as a simple craftsman, you only have a few hundred euros more in your pocket than someone who hasn't worked for years. That's what makes many Germans so angry.
You pay electricity, housing, social services for all people, even for the young people from Syria who have been living here for 7 years and have nothing better to do than attack our police, stab people and give a shit about our set. That won't work in the long run. TThe people here are getting angrier.
So in a nutshell, America favours people keeping more of their income, but also taking more responsibility for their own needs whereas countries like Germany favour everybody paying more of their income to the government and the government then taking care of people's needs. There are pros and cons in both systems. I personally don't love the idea of the government having full control over what they consider to be how my needs should be met. I like the Australian system, which falls a little in the middle. The government provides a safety net, but that's all it's meant to be - a last resort. Generally, people who can are encouraged to take care of their own needs through the tax system, for example maintaining private health insurance rather than relying on the public system means you pay less to the medicare (public) system. In this way, people have more of a choice if they want to invest in a Lamborghini or are happy enough with the government-funded VW. Those who can't afford a lambo still at least have a car (to use your analogy). It's the same with retirement, where a % is prescribed to be set aside in a retirement fund, but at least you can choose your fund, or even create your own fund if you want full control over those investments. And again, there are tax incentives to set aside more than the minimum should you choose to do so, as well as a government-funded pension for those who could not afford to save for retirement. I think it strikes a good balance between a fully individualised system like America, and a fully socialised system like Germany. Also, as a side-note, engineers in particular far out earn your examples from America and Germany. So I think I'll stick with the land down-unda :D but a very interesting video.
Very timely insights as a Brit living long-term in Germany. Because of the compounding nature of - well - everything from stress v. peace of mind, the cost of debt, plus the constant uncertainty over time of "am I making the right choices at the right time" - this is a great starting point as thought experiment let alone a comparison. I can't believe how much work you put into it 🙏. It made me realize how good we have it as both my kids (born in Germany for free) are now heading to university here. I also benefited from the fruits of years of contributions when the company I worked for closed in my 50s - at an age that it can be difficult to bounce back from. Again, the great system here "caught me." There was appropriate transitional training and as I started my own business, startup grants that effectively covered my salary for another YEAR while I got everything up and running. Like some of the other comments, I'm particularly interested about business owners - I wonder if the received wisdom of "US is best" is also flawed in that case taken over time for the average business owner (kleinunternehmen) with an employed partner? What difference does it make depending on the gender of each of two partners? (Just to give you a challenge. 😉)
I'm working to start a business currently here in Munich and would also love a video about the differences!
Thank You for putting such work into this presentation. Well Done. I am born and grew up in Munich Germany and have close family there. I live in Chicago for the last 30 years. I moverd there when I was 29 years old. There is one important factoy to be considered; what fits one best personally! I started a business in Germany, and after I moved to Chicago did so again. As to business opportunities there is a large difference. It simply is easier to start a business or even be self employed in the States. It is even easier to fail and start over in business in the US. (Been there done that) I understand that is not for everyone. If some prefers the comfort and security of employment on a W2 income, you may have more safety and security overall in Germany. No doubt paid sick leave, vacation, empoyment termination laws and so on have their place and I did appreciate those in Germany. However, income upward mobility is much more limited in Germnany. Or in other words, less risk. If you like higher risk in life with the possibility of a higher reward, I’d say the US offers more opportunity. So, there is no good and bad, lower or higher. Like most things in life its not black and white. In addition you need to find out where you are happier regardless of money. I simply found the US to be a place more suited to my personality. When I critisize the not so good things in the US I am doing it out of LOVE for this place. Like, hey, lets learn from each other in what each place is great at. So when people say “if you don’t like why are you here?” I respond…because I want to contribute to improve by learning from each culture. And that goes both ways. There are just as many things Germans can learn from American’s and vice versa. To me personally, I couldn’t have accomplished what I did in Germany. Even today, crossing socio economic and classes in Germany is way harder than in the US eventhough much less obvious and very hidden. And there is the jalousy thing. When you park a nice fancy car somewhere in Munich I was called “Bonze” “Kapitalist” and all kind of names and cars often got keyed. Same thing in Chicago or New York, nobody cares or you get compliments and people congratulate. Don’t take the later too literallly. I am just attempting to explain a feel or general drift here. These things are hard to explain and easily misunderstood and misinterpreted. There is NO JUDGEMENT on my part whatsoever. Just observations.
Great comment, Gerhard, spot on. I'm German and 25, but comparing the two countries, my brain says Germany, my heart says USA. I just don't get a thrill from living in Germany. That doesn't mean I feel the thrill from having a high risk of bankruptcy in the US, it's more about the people, the manners, the environment, as you said yourself. I lived in Canada and Portugal for some time and both made me on one hand appreciate some German things I love (like bread...), but also realize that I don't feel fulfilled in the German lifestyle. I always thought maybe it's because our generation was spoiled and young Germans are taking good things for granted, but seeing you coming from a different Generation feeling similar to me is great to see. I think people should care less if they make a few thousand more or less in a country, but rather see what their heart says, where they feel home. Living in Portugal taught me that money isn't even that relevant if the rest is right. The lifestyle makes up for everything, numbers don't matter that much.
@@drchtct I understand 100% of what you mean. I felt the same way. Sometimes it's not measurable which is better. The USA just simply seem to be a better match to my character and personality. Sometimes we are simply not born in the place we prefer. For me definitely I was able to fulfill a lifestyle which I couldn't have in Germany. And that does not have necessarily to do with money. It's hard to put in words as a "culture" is all the things as a whole. Its not possible to define in words like "better". It's a feel. For me, I never regret for my decision. I also know that some people do. And that tells me there is only one way to find out. Try. And...yes I miss the bread.....but I appreciate it like never before when I visit Germany. Don't follow the money. FOLLOW YOUR HEART. That rest will follow.
@@gerhard5911 was sind denn ein paar Dinge die, die US besser macht?
Great video and analysis! I lived in Germany for a while and actually considering moving back there :) One surprising thing is that senior mechanical engineer earns 99K EUR on average. It's higher than an average senior software engineer salary, but maybe also depends on location in Germany. Your analogy with Lamborgini is spot on :) When I lived in Germany I broke my clavicle bone and needed surgery. The recovery room wasn't like in a Holywood movie, but the doctors were very professional, I got to stay an extra night in the hospital, and in the end didn't have to deal with deductibles, out of pockets, or see a bill with how much everything costs. I just had to pay 30 euros (10 for each day in the hospital) and that's it. I can't imagine handling all the financial headache when you're trying to recover (couldn't use my right hand for 6 weeks). And 2 weeks paid time off work was a breeze, I just had to bring a note from the hospital.
I also don't know any senior engineer earning this amount of money. Even in Baden-Württembergs IG Metall collective agreement at top rating they would earn max. 94 k €/year. Thoses I know earn 70 k €/year. There are a view experts, those irreplaceable ones, which may earn way more.
Even glasdoor gives the average of 80 k€ of senior engineers.
But even if the Patient isn't that high, I neuer would like to crack my head beeing ill or how to pay education of my children.
There are also a few things which weren't considered in this on Germany:
1) "Arbeitgeberanteil" is not just for pensions but actually all social contributions - basically the employee costs the employer a lot more than in the US - it's irrelevant when you only look at what you "take home" but if you look at the greater picture it means the Germans already pay way more for insurance than it seems.
2) It's also important to add that the public health insurance does NOT cover everything. There are a lot of exceptions where you have to pay on your own.
3) All Universities in Germany/Colleges charge tuition fees. They are pretty much non existent for public universities but can get ridiculously high aswell on private colleges. It could be assumed that the standard tuition fees are between 400€ - 1000€ per year. I had to pay 240 per term on my University
4) Pensions are absolutely terrible in Germany. In the end you get about 30%-50% back from what you payed into it. That percentage depends on how great your income is. In the US you get a lot more back when retiring.
When you take these things into consideration then Germany comes out worse and this doesn't even take living expenses into consideration. Now what if you compare electricity costs, fuel costs, food costs, rent then the US comes out way ahead but that would make for another video I suppose.
the video is based on the usual fake objective socialist scam
I worked for a decade in the USA as a r&d director. Created my own company in Germany before that (acquired) and then a new company upon returning to Germany.
A bit out of your salary range, but when comparing with USA friends we are so much better off with kids in school and Uni plus healthcare and pensions… so so Much Better.
Great video - you did a fantastic job on trying to compare in great detail.
The only factor i feel you missed is the days worked per employee. Germans not only have more vacation days but also paid sick leave and even can take days off to take care of their sick children - without having to fear to lose their job because of taking those days off despite being entitled to. I think this stability also contributes to stable income and society
Yes excellent point, income cannot be compared without taking into account the hours worked per year.
I suspect that the numbers would also look very different if we were talking about a low-wage worker (such as retail or food service), not mechanical engineers. The social systems in Germany reduce the inequality that is honestly pretty brutal for poor Americans. Poor Americans cannot typically afford the luxury of a 401(k), or even health insurance.
@@ronansan While there are some gaps in some states, the ACA covers the vast majority of low income Americans for free. The data on medically induced bankruptcies was true at one time (and may still affect some middle income Americans), it should be much lower now and in the future. (To be clear, the insurance is free, medical procedures still cost at the levels covered by said insurance).
@@ronansan In terms of retirement, that's not quite as bad as it seems either. As mentioned, SS/FICA is regressive, but that's only half the picture. The payout is extremely progressive. An average index is calculated based on the average payment over 35 years. At lower incomes the payment received is 90% of that average (higher than Germany's 70%). At higher incomes the marginal percentage of the payout drops to 32%, then 15%. Like the pay in, the pay out is capped. This why she said the replacement percentage varies widely.
I am not saying that it is easy to be poor in America, it is definitely not. We can and should do better. But many of the arguments you see online are willfully misleading.
I do find it interesting that the most regressive tax is never mentioned in that manner. State sponsored free education means that those who did not go to university, and who typically make less over their lifetimes, pay for others to gain the knowledge to earn more than they do. Is there some benefit to all? Perhaps, but you'd have to prove it benefits the university graduates less than those who did not go to university. I don't think that's the case, even accounting for differing amounts paid into the system. Therefore it is a regressive tax.
This is a great video and a mechanical engineer is a good choice for comparison considering the college educated target audience. But engineer salaries are in the top 10% so anyone making less would be doing much better in Germany. It would be nice to see the numbers for high skilled working class jobs like electricians and low skilled working class jobs like waitresses/short order cooks, maids, janitors, and retail. It would be enough just to list the benefits everyone receives (Medicaid and ACA will figure more, difference in vacation time will be much greater) and give the final numbers.
high skilled workers get taxed to death here in Germany I have been here for 4 years. it's almost better to be low-skilled you get taking care of. 41 percent tax for us highly skilled it workers is not fun. who cares about hospital when you never get sick and the pensions here are some of the lowest lol
The answer is easy. 12,50€ min wage incl. health insurance, unemployment insurance etc, in 7,50$ you have nothing pretty much. So a medical emergency can destroy you, not only will come Costs at you for treatment but you might also lose your Job.
Yes very true
I come from Romania and the contrasts there sometimes resemble those in the US
Minimum wage is 600€ gross and around 330€ netto
But I know a lot of people working in IT or as business development guys that earn 2300-3700€ or above netto or even more… so huge difference based on job
Also, being in Belgium for 4 years I was really surprised to see that working extra hours in a gas station can bring you 2600€ netto whereas an IT guy developer or tester only makes 2100€ netto (plus hospitalisation insurance and company car and free gas for the car unlimited but still)
So the pay is really equal in belgium and some taxes are lower than in germany
Minimum wage increased in germany by 22% up to 2080 gross and currently in belgium this sits at 1842 but netto in germany this is 1485 and in belgium 1710
Some people earn 3200-4000 gross on average so netto only 2100-2800 but you see most of the jobs pay the same so there s a lot of equality with or without a diploma
Back in 2018 I was doing uber eats and deliveroo on a 0 hour contract earning 3500-4000€ netto a month
I am a 65yr old retired American. I did not graduate from college but I did start a good small business. In the early days when I had low income I paid little in taxes and accumulated future tax deductions. When I retired and turned the business over to my junior partner our employees were all the best and were all paid above the median pay for a college educated person in the US even though none of them had a college education. When business was great, I paid a lot of taxes but only because I made a lot of money. The highest effective tax rate I had was 25% and I paid $125,000 in Federal taxes in 2021. My state has no income tax. I retired with more than $1M in liquid investments (taxed money, not IRA). I am not unusual in America. There are 3 million small business in the US with net profits over $1M (not my business). In my state I paid no business tax, there was no business license needed, I could start it in my rented house without a permit (which I did), I could get some help from state programs to help small businesses. I could let go of employees who were not productive any time. I could cut employees if sales suddenly dropped too low and I was losing too much money. Could I have succeeded in Germany?
Might depend on the kind of business.
Small businesses can also succeed in Germany, lol.
Yes, I think so. Why not, Entrepeneurship will always win. If you can make it, you will make it anywhere ...
. But: what would have happened if you got very sick? And put all your money into treatments? (compared to Germany where this is without costs)
@@juergenwoerz6015 Several years ago I hsd s friend who was in his 30's and was self-employed with wife, kids and house. He needed an expensive medical treatment (I forgot what it was) and the State of California paid for 95% of it and he did not owe the state anything for it. Last year a close friend's wife got cancer. They have 6 kids. The hospital found the money from various assistance programs and it was all paid for, he owed nothing. That's not to say there are not holes in the US health safety net, but it is a pretty good safety net. Europeans have an inaccurate understanding of US healthcare financial assistance programs.
Germany has well documented success in small business exports due to many factors including the availability of credit through small community banks.
This was very comprehensive and interesting. I get reminded of Dave Ramsey telling his American audience "Have 6 months of income as an emergency fund. After that save 20% of your monthly paycheck". I feel the need for this is greatly reduced in Germany. Just a quick thought: While not monetary, mandatory paid vacation days may be worth mentioning as well. After all they are likely contributing to how much happiness one gets from earning x dollars a month.
Basically the quality of what you earn over the quantity.
6 month of income is rather on the high side.
I just keep 6 months of living expenses as an emergency fund.
If you move for a new job, the job turns out to be bad (and you have to move again) and your car breaks down at the same time, it's good to have some reserves.
Also, German social welfare takes a long time to pay out. Not for unemployment (fortunately), but for example state live insurance, bafög etc.and even tax refunds can take years to process.
@@svr5423 considering living expenses went up by like 40% over the last year...
Thank you for this video. As a Romanian living now in USA, your video is a very informative video to try to explain to my american friends how some systems work in Europe. As well as to explain to my European friends and family why I need higher income to be able to have kids. Thanks again.
Im from the Netherlands and been to Romania a lot(for work etc.). Salaries there are way lower, and still the houses are pretty darn expensive compared to their income. Also many things in Romania are more expensive than in the Netherlands, for example electronics for example. If i where to live in Romania with Romanian salary i would not have a good life like i have now in Netherlands. The income/expense ratio is bad in Romania for my taste. And also there is too much "macho" and "show off" culture in Romania for my taste as well. If people poor or rich, they have to "Show" they have it good or are rich. Why buy an old luxery BMW instead of a New Dacia? Also girls there wear so much make up, als this show off culture. Guys want big German cars, girls wear alot of make up. I feel stressful in such society where everybody needs to "proof" something. Don't u agree?
@@HermanWillems hi! You have a pretty good idea of how things are there. The lack of real opportunities, corruption, small salaries, and pretty much all you said it’s true and I feel the same. It’s a culture that I felt it didn’t fit me, and it was part of the reason I left.
But I think the economy is growing and there is potential.
Speaking of medical system, is much cheaper, and with recommendations you can find great doctors and care. Paid maternity leave of 2 years. You don’t go in debt to get medical care.
Still, in general, it’s harder there to have a good life.
Fantastic comparison and analysis! Really appreciate the data-driven approach as well. Like you mentioned towards the end, I think it would be great to make a Part 2 of this video where you add on other costs of living (rent, groceries, transportation, etc). As an American looking to move to Germany sometime this year, THANK YOU!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
Moving for financial reasons is a bad idea, I think. I would not like getting a new neighbor with that mindset. I would rather appreciate a new neighbor who is willing to make new experiences and learn new things or simply follow his dreams. I moved once for money and I needed about 5 years to make the new place my home. Only when I decided I wanted a lot more social interaction at the new place, I got really used to the new place. I left shortly after that point in time but the relations I set up then still exist.
You explain it the most comprehensive way ever seen in any video, except: What is life like for a parent with kids living on minimum wages?? OR people who have an average salary (in Dutch we call it "Modaal" (average?) salary, which is 30-40K : Esp last category pays lot of taxes in Europe (NL) and not get most benefits. Maybe part #2 to set this out. Vielen dank for this brilliant content
Hi there - this ended up being a 4 part series. Part 1/2 were dedicated to the earners in this video, part 1 was direct deductions, part 2 was cost of living. Part 3/4 looked at more low-medium income salaries or jobs where you did not need a University degree to succeed.
Yes her salaries are crazy. A newly graduated Engineer in Ireland with a phd is on €42000 and not €67000. A Masters engineer is on €35000 and a BSC engineer is on €28000. She picks european salaries out of the air based on her American husbands salary and not European born salaries
Germany is not a socialist democracy. It is a heavily regulated capitalist democracy, as some call it, capitalism with a human face. We Americans have much to learn from Germany and Germany has much to learn from us. Thank you for promoting this exchange of cultures, histories, ideas and ways of living our lives!
ofc it is. at least beer price is socialist xD 0.39€ for 0,5L and when u return bottle u get 0.25€ back. so 0.14€. Yes u can be drunk from beer every day and spend only 30€/month and it is even better than most cheap beers. socialism is more fair to everyone than capitalism. ps: this beer price was in middle of summer when we were already half way in inflation and it was in capital.
Well you are splitting hairs. The welfare state is a German invention (Bismarck in Imperial Germany), and most ideas which make the German social market economy great came from the political movements of social democracy and socialism.
The problem is that Americans lack political and historical education as well as proper vocabulary to hold a solid, open-minded conversation about many things. Instead, they read buzz words like "socialism" and they completely shut off mentally and go into "upset panic, screaming intensifies, the devil is upon us!"-mode.
Political culture and political discussion is absolutely retarded in the USA. US-Americans use words without the slightest understanding of what they mean, just to induce fear and shut down any goal-oriented debate.
"heavy regulated capitalism" is kind of what a social democracy is. note the social. not socialist. somehow the "-ist" part is what americans usually get wrong.
@@mitjapintar4609 you don't want to drink the cheap lidl beer in plastic bottles.
@@PeterPetermann Correct! Thank you.
Actually the German family would probably have to pay less tax than you calculated with a 3/5 instead of a 4/4 tax class combination as their income has such a big difference. But I can see where you're coming from as it would have made the calculations more complicated. And did you factor in the "Kinderfreibetrag" as well?
It would have been interesting as well to see the families 10 years later (when both kids are in school and their income changed again) and then an additionalr 25 years later (what do they actually get from the state/insurance) once they're no longer working.
the 3/5 tax class does not make a difference in how much taxes you pay ultimately. it only within the years shifts the net take-home pay to usually the spouse with the higher income because the person with tax class 3 get both spouses' 10k tax free base amount considered for him/her when the employer calculates the wage tax to be deducted from the gross salary. 3/5 tax class spouses are required to file tax returns the next year; in that final tax calculation the calculation is the same like if both had the 4/4 tax classes.
so, effectively, 3/5 tax class spouses have more take home pay "unterjährig" (during the year), but are more likely run into a "Nachzahlung" (payment of additional taxes), compared to 4/4 spouses
Incredibly well done video. I've been here 25 years and happy for the system and how it works. I would also add that in both scenarios, the German single guy and family are getting at least 6 weeks of paid vacation as professionals and in Baden-Württemberg, 12 paid holidays. Although single Max might be living the high life with more money, he's lucky to be able to do a two week vacation if at all. In addition, the German system will also allow for their full salaries for the first 6 weeks of illness before the health insurance takes over and pays 67%. Many companies in the US only give 5 sick days a year if you are lucky and then they fire you for being ill.
Why do you assume he wants to take a vacation?
@@TheRockkickass The Alternative would be to expect the german guy to do additional jobs during that vacation time, resulting in more money...
@@dextrodus Germans are to lazy to do that. All they care about is getting more vacation
@@dextrodus FYI "additional jobs" during your paid holidays is illegal in Germany
This video also ignores housing. In major US cities, equal to German cities, housing rent is probably close to double, and that will kill any income benefit.
I did the comparison with a German colleague. With California state tax, our tax burdens actually ended up being almost the same. Except I had higher property taxes, when I was renting my rent increases were higher, my retirement is a 401k casino and as we saw with Lehman brothers it can be wiped out and I had to pay back 25k in student loans. And I had 4k in medical bills from the dentist and doctor. By the time we factored all that in, he had more disposable income. In summary: socialism is just a buzzword that rich American elites use to trick middle class Americans into voting in the interest of rich people. Hence the media wealth of the American middle class being ranked 19th globally while the French and Germans are ranked at the top.
One of the many tricks. Secrets of America's Shadow Government series 2, Ep 1: The Game is Rigged, spells out how. If you can get past the nauseating conspiratorial commentary, basically it is by a process of State Capture where corporations pay both sides of government political donations to get the outcome they want. Additionally things like a single polling booth servicing large black neighborhoods in conservative states is another way. The socialism card as you mention is another. It isn't just like this in the US, other so called democracies suffer similarly.
We are just financial units in a kleptocracy of varying degrees masquerading as democracy.
Would you rather live in the Western kleptocracy or a russian? The former seems the better bet - less chance of defenestration when you grumble your lot in life LOL.
Only thing I can disagree with here is that this all assumes the pension system actuallyworks, when in reality, Berlin does everything for current pensioneers on the back of younger people. We have to go to the stock exchange to have anything when the system collapses udner tzhe weight of demographics and politicians winning elections over short term promisesmaking the issue worse.
The video claims that a pretty social democratic and egalitarian US system is "capitalist" and the German system, which is based in non-Socialism and get's harmed through real Socialism and not real capitalism, is pointed out as "Socialism". California is drastically more Socialist and materialistic and less producing than Germany. Also is a capital driven retirement plan not automatically capitalist, as paper never produces anything, but a simple business. The US system is bankrupt or broken, because it is Statist and the German system is now also Statist and gets bankrupt, because it's left-wing. That is, because the receivers are equalized in contrast to those who pay it. The US system, which was once anti-Socialist and radically libertarian conservative, gave the individual the choice and carry the cost themselves. The German system also had that individualism at its core, but bargained costs to benefits. The US liberal-socialist claim is, that everybody should get the same benefits as a German, while not paying for it, individually. That's a cost driver, and then the rising costs are rejected or reducing the actually working middle class in contrast to state dependants.
Agreed, also: the German employee gets 6 or more weeks off from work, while the company pays these days as if he was at work. On top of that , he gets an additional €1000 which is called "holiday money". And last but not least: what is a fulltime job? Here in Belgium it is 36 to 38 hours a week. If you work part time here, you also get paid days off work (3 weeks for a 50% workrate)
It’s not actually “socialism”, it’s a “social democracy”. Fundamentally different concepts, but Americans will call it “socialism” because they don’t know any better.
Also, keep in mind that a lot of money paid in taxes in the US go to the military, which is supposed to police the world and also conveniently defend Germany’s ass in case of a war, since the Bundeswehr is essentially in a very dire state, not fit for an actual military conflict in any capacity. You might think that is just the “military industrial complex” and thus inconsequential, but I hope we now have a better understanding of why having a big-ass military is actually crucial (*cough Russia invading Ukraine *cough)
Excellent video. I'm German and worked in the US for 6 years and had the oportunety to move with my family to the US. I was sure in the beginning we all would move to the US, once I would get the status to be able to move, but skiped the plan after a few years, because of exactly the findings you found out, too. The expected greater buying power in the US because of the higher income turned out to be an illusion. Second reason to skip the plan was the higher crime rate in most US states compared to Germany. In the end I did take the "Amercian Life style" I like and found a way to realize that in combination with the higher freedom in mind in Germany. The funny thing is realy that it is on personal preference only what system you like more. The quality of life egals.
The appalling figures, released by the Federal Criminal Police Office of Germany, revealed that a total of 677 gang rapes were recorded last year, up from 300 in 2018-an average of 1.86 every day.
Living in most parts of Bavaria is great, living in Berlin or Bremen pure sh!t when it comes to freedom and safety.
@@christophkral191 thats why small towns are better
Hey Ashton, sehr gut gemacht. Interesting comparison. I‘m not sure Max would already have 2 years of experience at 23, he would probably still be at University or taking a year off to travel the world. Also Germany has lots of other „perks“ like lots of nature, public transportation, shorter working hours, more vacation, etc that add to a quality of life that is hard to put a price on.
In Germany, companies offer students subject-related paid work for their studies. A frequently practiced approach is to apply the theoretical knowledge from the course practically in the work as an employee or even to anticipate knowledge from the course to be acquired later. This time is included in your professional CV. In this way, companies can also secure future employees by taking on students with a permanent position after they graduate.
And that vacation is paid by the employer, too.
Ganz genau: Wer hat in Germany mit 23 eine Hochschulausbildung mit 2 Jahren “Berufserfahrung“? Nobody! Wir machen unseren “Hochschulabschluss“ erst mit 18/19 Jahren, was mit einem “Highschool“-Abschuss mit 16 Jahren nicht vergleichbar ist.
@@dinola3268 Highschool Abschluss macht man auch mit 18/19
That's all a good comparison, but one really important point isn't considered. The salary used here for comparison is absolutely not normal for Germany. Most people, especially those who are single, have significantly less to live on. And so you have to compare how the wages are really distributed among the population. And what normal people have in the same job for different wages. The wage comparison with average numbers is not very meaningful because the average does not reflect the real distribution in the population. Single worker "Max" is not representative of the mass of people. You have to understand that only about 6% of the population earn as much money as "Max" in this example. And only 2% of households have as much money as the married Max. With a monthly wage of €2,400 after taxes, one is already among the richest 20% of the country in Germany. Of course, the United States also has a very large gap between rich and poor. But you also have to see how large the distribution in the mass is. What opportunities you have in a simple job and what you can achieve with it. The whole video uses the perspective from within an extremely wealthy bubble and lifestyle for comparison. And that doesn't reflect "normal" life in Germany.
you should do the calculation assuming somebody gets sick in the US as well... the prepayments for healthcare aren't just your per year cost, but the peace of mind knowing you're protected when you do get sick in the future. it's a pretty rosy assumption that single Steve in the US will never get sick (even if he's healthy this year).
I have something to say. When i started working in Germany after coming from romania in 2013, there was an american couple in the hotel. The husband told me that it is cheaper to come to germany, pay the 4 star hotel for a month and get his wife a hip replacement surgery. I remember him saying that absolutely everything included it would cost him less then 15000€.
Second thing. I had a knee surgery and didn't heal as fast as the doc said. I was sick for 4 months. I didnt need to pay anything, didn't get fired and also got the 60% of my monthly income. Now... i have been living in Germany for more than 10 years. I was sick again for months last year and after looking at the costs that my insurance paid, i must say i think i would ha e died in the US or be homeless. The insurance paid almost 40000€. It is a lot. I am very grateful for the german system and gladly pay the taxes i need.
I saw a video about a hernia surgery in the US
A hernia surgery in the US was 89000$. In Germany it costs 2600€ if you don't have insurance. So lets say 3000 and 90000. Now... if i had to get 40000 from my insurance, by that calculation i should have(or get) 1.2 million dollars in the US. Is that right or am i exaggerating?
Hey great video (like many of yours). Some things to note - I am a software engineer in the U.S. I have friends working in similar positions all across Europe (including Germany) and their wages there (compared to mine currently) are about 1/5 to 1/6 what I make. This is not necessarily unique to me or my position, but salaries across the board are generally significantly lower in Europe than in the U.S. all things equal. Of course, they (Europeans) generally have a better work-life balance, not having to worry about medical expenditures or overall healthcare the same way we do, as well as education.
I've never lived in Germany, only visited. But I did live in Norway and costs were much higher there compared to the U.S. But - I felt the quality of life was significantly higher from everyday food and drinks, to work-life balance, and the overall attitude towards workers protections.
A lot to consider and I think you did a wonderful job here!
1/5 seems hard to believe, at least for me as a German. I went thru 3.5 years apprenticeship, 0.5 years of work and then 2 years technical school to finaly be a state certified technician for electrical engineering. I then started my current position 2014 with 35k/year (pre tax) 35 hours/week 30 days paid vacation and paid over time plus extra % on over hours. I am now at about 55k/year 38 hours/week 30 days paid vacation, paid over time with bonus. If I work only in Germany. But when I work outside of Germany as like business trip I get 50-100% extra so it fluctuates a lot and is difficult to compare. 2019 I made 80k but spend more than half the year out of country.
But I don't think any software engineer would start with less than I got. I think if your income differs so much there must be more factors like work experience or exact place of living. A software engineer in Munich, Germany probably earns twice as much as a software engineer in Dortmund, Germany simply because the rent in Munich is 3x the rent in Dortmund.
So if you a are in like NYC and even for a software engineer in NYC you are well paid, then compared with a software engineer in east Germany, yeah maybe the German gets only 1/5.
But I mean thats like 50k/year vs 250k/year for the same job... hard to believe.
And when I was in Sweden they have higher prices but also earn more than Germans and I think the same goes for Norway. When I was in Denver last summer prices in the supermarket were between 1.5-3 times the price of groceries in Germany. I remember looking for toiletpaper very long because we were not able to find a pack for less than 10$ while in Germany a pack of 8 is 3-4€. 5€ gets you the fancy 5 layer extra soft and nice scented paper.
In Sweden I remember meat and alcohol is about 3-4 times the price in Germany but the rest was only 1-1.5 times the price (2014/2015).
I would have guessed Norway, Sweden and maybe Finnland beeing about equal to the US, price and wage wise
oh yeah and about that work life balance. When I heard about "silent quiting" I assumed the US American habbit of just stopping to do your job and see how long it takes until they stop paying you, what I cant argue against if you have hire and fire on spot on the employer side.
How stunned I was when I found out that "silent quitting" means: doing exactly what you get paid for, not more nor less.
In Germany we don't have a special word for that because... that's just how it normaly should be. You do what you get paid for and if they want you to do more, you get paid more
@@Hamsterdam91 He might be a well compensated engineer in California or Washington, where salaries at some companies (and the cost of living) are much much higher than average. The average EE starting salary across the US as a whole is around $76k. But it sounds like you are more of a technician, which starts closer to $46k (also hourly with paid overtime, etc.).
My own datapoints are a couple decades old, so they may be off. My EE colleagues in France made less than we did (at the same company) but only about 20% less. Colleagues in Japan made about 1/2, and colleagues in Taiwan made 1/5 and mainland China even less. I'm sure Taiwan and China have closed the gap by now.
There is variance in the US too in cost of living and salaries. Typically, though, the salary varies less than the cost of living. My mortgage payment has never been more than 8% of my salary for decent size free standing homes in good neighborhoods. I don't think you could say that in California or Colorado, even with the higher salaries.
@@onehorsetoomany8006 yes that's what I ment with if he lives in NYC or the other high cost of living areas. As far as I know a 3 room apartment in Munich is still only the cost of a closet in NYC. So then I could belive he makes 250k/year but it is still hard to believe someone in his position only earning 50k/year in Germany. Your postion getting paid 20% less in France I can see that yeah.
I am somewhere between a normal technician and a master in electrical engineering. The US has not so many level of professional education so I don't know if an equivalent exists. After a quick search and just one open job description for a technician in the US, a high school diploma seems to be enough to qualify as a technician.
But I am closer to a bacholer degree in electrical engineering with some less theory knowledge but a lot of practical knowledge instead.
After another google search, since 01.01.2020 "Staatlich geprüfte Techniker" like me can lable themselves "Bachelor Professional" by German law to make this and other German degrees easier to understand in the international economy. But there is some protest as it is not an academic degree but could be falsly understood as one.
So I guess we can take from that, that a young technician with a high school diploma in the US earns about as much as a young "kinda" bachelor in Germany
@@Hamsterdam91 Nearly all the technicians I worked with had a 2-year associate's degree from uni. They made less per hour, but were hourly. With overtime they could easily out-earn younger engineers. But there was a lower ceiling on earnings. A few were on engineer payscales, but that was rare.
Great and very well researched video. Pretty much confirms the conclusions I get from the small researches I made in my free time over the last few years.
You get a bit more in the US as a single professional or more or less the same as a family of 4 (with current exchange rates). But in the US you're totally screwed if anyone in your family gets any remotely serious injury/illness because of the insane out of pocket costs, while in Germany you can at least not have to worry as much financially. You also have to worry a lot about not losing your job in the US because it ties to things like health insurance, while it is a lot safer and better in Germany. Basically, life for the average joe is maybe very slightly better in the US when things are good, but gets significantly worse very quickly when anything bad happens. Meanwhile in Germany everything is a lot more stable and there are a lot of safety nets to catch and support you when anything bad happens.
Not to mention the still very good standard of living in Germany, better work-life balance, better safety/security in the cities, the fact that you don't have to worry about gun violence/crime and mass shootings, etc.
I'm definitely staying in Germany and never going to even think about moving to the US now. Thanks for helping me make up my mind!
As a 27 year old living and working in Luxembourg (which is very similar to Germany in a lot of the regards mentioned) with US nationality, this video was EXTREMELY insightful and useful. I've been questioning giving up my US nationality (mostly over financial issues) and different possibilities for my future and this brought a lot of great points to the table. Thank you for the time and research that went into this, I have no doubt that I will come back to it many times :)
Life is definitely better in the US..job market is phenomenal
Don't let the US door hit you on the butt on the way out and don't come back.
@togetherforever64 Moien a welcome to (almost) paradise. Luxembourg is, imho, by far the best country to live in (in Europe) and one of the best worldwide. The only real downside is the housing market, but depending where you’re from in the US, you could’ve seen worse.
@@denmatti Moien! Thank you, Luxembourg is my home country, I am Luxembourgish, my whole family is here and I've been here (or not very far) for the past 15 years (was just born in the states) and I agree with you, absolutely love it! Cool to find another one of us on here 😉
+ 1 for the lux people! Moien y'all xD
Thanks for this extensive comparison. I did not check the numbers, but you checked all the major boxes.
Maybe one thing to take into consideration is vacation. Generally speaking, you usually get more vacation days in Germany while the average working days per year are pretty much the same. For my personal situation it is 30 days of vacation at 248 working days versus ~10 days of vacation at 249 working days. So the difference in salary would take a significant hit of ~8.8%.
This being said, it is hard to generalize.
As others did already say: I personally rather pay a little more and get piece of mind in return than constantly having to worry about facing bankrupcy, if anything across your life span goes haywire.
Great Video! One factor I miss is, that as a German I can take about 6 weeks of payed vacation on average and still have the displayed income without any reduction to my yearly salary. Taking this as unpaid time (is that even possible?) in the US would reduce the income by rougly 10-12% I assume. Also interesting would be to take the housing costs into account (rural / urban) since this is usually a big share of the income and I totally have no clue what those costs really are in the US, despite the typical "You have to pay 1500$ for a cardboard box in LA" memes 😄
This coming Sunday is a video where we pick up where this one leaves off - factoring in housing, utilities, transportation and food.
Agreed!
I am not sure how it works in the US, but you also have fully paid sick leaves up to 6 consecutive weeks before the insurance comes into play. So if you break your leg or something knocks you out for some time and you can not work for 6 weeks you will still have 100% of your income in Germany + having prorbably more paid vacation (minimum 4 weeks a year) means in the average you work probably less for that income than in the U.S, which means more free time and a better quality of life.
the average is probably closer to 5 weeks
@@boerbenlp8659 Paid sick leave (an absence of 3 days or less) is mostly offered by public employers or to salaried employees. Many hourly employees at private companies still do not get paid sick leave.
Most employers in the US offer options free or low cost insurance for longer absences (called short term disability and long term disability). They typically replace 70-100% of your income for short term and a lower percentage for long term. Short term varies with the policy, but is usually starts at 4 days absence and ends after a 3 month, 6 month, or 1 year absence. Long term would kick in after that, and covers up to 3 year, 10 year, or even lifetime absences, though at a lower payment percentage.
But it's not required and some, mostly low wage, employees likely to not have these insurance policies.
Yes, I suspect US employees work far more hours. But I also suspect the cost of living is much lower. Unless you live on a coast or in a scenic mountain area (like Colorado), the cost of living is generally pretty cheap.
What an incredible work and effort you've put into this brilliant comparison. Ashton, again my dearest congratulations to this. So well done!
Thank you so, so much!
She's had to be very systematic about it, that much is certain. We are most grateful for putting in that effort.
I want to add something here. Socializing the cost of education is actually regressive. People who will never get a direct benefit or even sometimes an indirect benefit, and who earn less than a university graduate are paying "up" to educate someone who will be a higher earner.
Sure, they'll generate more tax revenue, but to call it a humane social venture is a stretch.
The other problem is that the less you pay for something, the less you take it seriously.
It is 3am here where I am and just finished watching. Your video is by far the most comprehensive and helpful to us. We are moving to Munich next month, we are in our early 40s and similar to your German family example. I have watched nearly all of your videos and needless to say that you sealed the deal for us. Thank you for your efforts in making this video! More power to your channel.
Wow, thank you! Really glad you enjoyed this video (and our other content). Best of luck on your move!
@@TypeAshton The thing is. Although the families earn pretty much the same. I think the German family can afford more. Because most things beside energy like rent
restaurants and groceries are much more expensive in the US ( on average ) than in Germany.
you will see there are so much more benefits, its not possible to write them all here...
Great video. It is well thought out and covers most of the items of income. Two things that come to my my mind that weren't considered here.
1. Childcare spending credits in taxes. That should increase the income for married couple by up to 6K
2. Spending part - This may be a full video on itself but IIRC, Germany has a VAT of 20% on purchases, US on average taxes about 7% across its states in state taxes. Fuel and electric costs also would impact the standard of living substantially.
Lastly, I considered moving to Germany when I had 15 years of experience in Tech and am single earner in my family since my wife is home maker, I realized that I was getting less than half the salary in Germany. I actually save more than what my gross pay would have been in Germany. My relatives in Germany recommended Switzerland to me and not Germany due to salaries. My assessment was that Germany is fine for those who are working and intend to work till 65 but single earner families and those looking for an early retirement are better off in US.
Great job! One of the big issues with comparisons like this is the variance of cost-of-living in different locations. As a rule, the best paying jobs in the US are located in the most expensive places. In addition, the cost of different items are vastly different! We found that cars and electronics are much cheaper in the US, whereas e.g. hygiene articles like toothpaste or soap are more expensive.
I would say that while overall the standard of living in Germany and USA are fairly similar, there are different cultural focus points: if you want to make a lot of money (and work your ass off for it), go for the US. If you want a balanced life with some private time, go to Germany.
similar standard of living??? it depends in which neighbourhood you live in the US...
If you are lucky, 67% of us families go bankrupt by medical cost. It’s a big gamble in the us.
@@kasper2970 that is not even remotely true. You’re either highly misinformed or a troll.
@@kasper2970hmm I never met anyone who went bankrupt from medical expenses or anyone who went bankrupt in general. So it’s crazy that majority of Americans are going bankrupt out here.
An interesting info you might add even if you already talked about that in other videos is work-life balance, the amount of time you work in the week in your job and how much time you have for your family. I worked 35h/week and every hours above was extra paid time while colleagues in the US with the same job had to work 50-60h per week. Adding to that 30 workdays/year vacation time while the US colleagues could be happy to get 14 days. My boss got angry when I didn't take my whole 30 days in a year, while their boss got angry if they wanted to use their 14 days. What use is a greater income if you got no time to enjoy it?
Add for families the parental leave with the parental allowance for up to three years you have in Germany.
I know it's difficult to calculate for all options, but just a hint that the whole calculation for the USA will go down the drain if you add a chronic illness like diabetes (insulin per month in the USA ca. 1000$), high blood pressure etc. A friend in the US pays about 600$ for every epi-pen for emergency he needs because of an allergy. The same thing cost 5€ in Germany or is free for children.
One major point I think should have been made, is that your example only works for studied people with an higher income. Most people don't fall in that category. More interesting would be to compare for example a burger flipper in the USA and Germany or a employees at a grocer, You could even use the same parent companies and their branches in the US and Germany like McDonalds (DE+US), Aldi (DE) and Trader Joes (US) to have the same basis for calculation.
Interestingly, we are coming out with a video this Sunday on the affects & statistics behind worker benefits (such as sick leave, vacation time, and worker productivity and the cost to small businesses) between the US and Germany. Should be quite appropriate after this discussion.
I completely agree. As an early 30s woman with a chronic illness from the USA, I chose to leave my country because of the lack of security and social programs that would help people who are less well-off or have chronic illnesses. My healthcare costs were astronomical even with good private health insurance and a good tech salary and it was because I have a chronic illness.
Why Americans keep calling the German system "socialism". Germany is still a capitalistic Society. Socialism versus capitalism is simply about who owns the companies, in socialism the companies are owned by the state or the community.
First, Because Germany is a mixed economy.
Second, because Americans consider anything left of Reagan to be communism.
Because american. They only know left or right.
Because they actually do not understand the meaning of the word or they have vested interest in keeping people ignorant. The moment you mention minimum wage, universal healthcare, union, cheaper education costs, they start shouting ‘socialism’.
@@angelperez3750 In what way is the economy more mixed than the USA economy? I think the main point is that most USA citizen confuse socialism with social programs.
Well Germany is a mix of Capitalism and Socialism. Mix of Socialism coz they have higher government regulations on price controls for essential commodities like Healthcare and Fuel, has a very labour-friendly work laws having companies provide maternity leave and less work hours per week. It also funds a lot of social programs. These are deffo policies adopted from socialist ideology. So yes a reasonably restricted Free Market is what Germany and a lot of Euro countries are all about
If 1% of politicians made the effort you have put into this video the world would be a lot better place. Brilliant real world comparison. Well done!
Thank you!
The problem I see with the system we have in Germany is, that it sets all the incentives to go the educational route. So instead of starting to pay monthly taxes like a normal worker, they start around the age of 25-27. I'm 27 now and have payed taxes for nearly 11 years. A friend of mine is 28 and has never in his life payed one cent in taxes from honest work. Yet, after I have worked for roughly 45 years (At least for now, I suspect I will work until I'm 70), my friend will have worked for only 34 years and will still be able to get his pension at the same time. Going down this American way of getting everyone into higher education, left a big hole in our taxes (Meaning I have to work longer, because less and less people pay taxes, ultimately) and skilled crafts and trades. There is currently around 1 1/2 worker for one elder. That will drop even lower in the coming years with the older generation getting closer to pension. In addition, cost of living in general (Electricity, gas, water, taxes on goods and so on) is more expensive in Germany.
Dont forget the massive migration.
Only 35% of the people who came 2015 are working. And even if the work its mostly low income jobs...
Also we are working almost the longest and have a really low pension compared with other eu countries...
@@ralleralofsky3454 Actually, the state just released a picture on Twitter that shows that 55% of those that came just 2015 are working. Still. 45% are still doing nothing. And that is not even taking into consideration that almost 3-5 million came after 2015. So, maybe you are right after all.
@@ralleralofsky3454 Muhammed and his 7 wives and 43 children thank you for funding their invasion and conquest of Deutschland.
Please do not confuse socialism with social democracy or social market economy although Americans use this as synonyms. That is a typical mistake Americans often make. It can leads to prejudices like „the dumb American“ even though the rest of the statement is correct.
She used quotation marks, which shows that she is aware of these stereotypes and misconceptions.
Hi there, this is discussed towards the end of the video. I'm fully aware that what Germany has is not "Socialism" but a social market economy. However the phrase is often weaponized in the US as anything funded through social contributions.
The push for "Universal Pre-K" earlier in 2022 was an excellent example of this. Because Bernie Sanders and others advocated for it, they were branded as "radical leftists" and "socialists", even though 4 US states already offer this program.
The use of quotes is a tounge-in-cheek reference to this misuse, but we have discussed in many videos up to now on how this is not correct.
I bet you guys knew, as always you are so smart. That's why I always love your well researched videos. Don't wonder about the reactions from commentators to the word "socialsim". The quotation marks just don't transport enough that you guys don't mean it that way, I guess. Also didn't see them at first. And the term really triggers Germans after 30 years of fighting with two different systems and with the socialist one having done so much harm to people.
@@andreahausberg3366 this report is done in English, English speaking people are very aware of quotation marks and what they mean. It can’t be more obvious. It’s also obvious the commentator is German but he received his answer and it should be end of story.
The powers to be in the United States have big interest in keeping the citizenry ignorant. Any advances in expanding social services for the working class are unacceptable because it would have to come at the expense of the ruling class and corporations. American voters have been manipulated into fighting over cultural and basic human rights issues lest to be more interested in improving the social safety net for all Americans.
Hi Ashton, congratulations on this summary! When are you going to be a professor? You are predestined for it. Keep up the good work! 👍 👏👏 🙋🏼♂️
As an American that retired to Ireland a few years back, Europe's system is simply better. As she noted, there more peace of mind here. You just don't worry about some unexpected medical bill coming your way. Plus, quality of life is just better here. This is a culture tailored toward ordinary people, whereas the US it's a rich's man world.
don't tell that to a Trump voting patriot in US.
Please also include in your comparison any differences in number of vacation days and holidays, paid sick leave, working hours in a 100% job, etc. Would be interesting to see!
I think there are two things that are not mentioned (or I missed it) that are just a death sentence for working in the US: Factor in how many hours those guys work and how much vacation they get. All the money in the world is worthless if you don't get a life out of it. That's a personal choice for sure and there are rare individuals in both countries that love to work 120 hours a week every week, but they can still do that. If you're not that sort of person, nobody can force you in Germany to work past 48 hours a week on average or skip your vacation. People that work all day exist. The number of people that actually want to do that is extremely small at the end of the day. And I don't want to spread misinformation (so please check it yourself before spreading, can't link sources on YT), but as far as I know, the average American works about 50% more and their actual output / productivity remains almost identical.
Most people working like crazy just put in useless hours and are not on top of their game. You don't just work, you work to make your company more money - you need to stay economical. Germans realize that, Americans somehow not so much it seems like. And that all results in less time with your kids, giving them a worse start to life, not spending time with your partner and making your marriage work, never learning that instrument, never travelling outside the US or never doing whatever priorities you have in your life and at the end of the day, I'm sure it's felt by the health system.
Lots of people work insane hours in Germany when they're young, but come age 30, becoming an actual adult with the ability to reflect on what they're doing, virtually all that I knew (including myself) stopped doing that and are often willing to take a crazy pay cut. That's just a reality, money is not everything in life and you can still live a very decent life with just 80k a year or so. And if something terrible happens, well, you made those social security payments for a reason.
yeah really good point, if you recalculate these outcomes per work hour Germany will be way ahead
Exactly- and the garanty of 24 vaction by law ( even when most of the companies grant 30 days) and extra days for special occasions as death of close family members, movind and marriage- as Tarifmiarbeiter/in in Bavaria you got 7x the first day paid if you child is sick. Also it 46:34 should by cost of maternal care included. Also if you calculate that when you are sick, you can see a doctor without minding the cost, stay at home as LONG as you are sick, as far I understand in US the amount of sickdays granted is up to each company. If you calculate all these factors this high income will vanish into thin air ….
I don't remember factoring in property taxes, but I believe it would make a big difference. That's how we fund the school, police, fire dept, roads, etc, so it seems right to include. We pay it either by owning a home or rent, doesn't matter. I'm not sure about Germany, but the property tax in my area easily adds an extra 8-10-12k per year extra for nothing fancy. Great video, thanks for the work you put into these.
I guess she will include cost of living in the video next week.
if its property you live in and not rent out its below 400Euro per year for a 160m² house (that has and additonal a decent garden and double garage). depending on your income that can still hurt but i think thats a lot less then the us :D
Yes, I was flabbergasted to learn what my sister and her family pay in property taxes in the US. It's at least an order of magnitude more than in Germany. As a property owner (modest apartment) in Germany, we have paid around 400 EUR a year, which is likely on the high end as we live in Munich. Some other interesting differences wrt owning property:
- Loan rates in Germany were easily 2-3 % below that in the US, e.g. 2% fixed for 30 years a few years back.
- In the US you can deduct the loan interest from your taxes. In Germany, you cannot, *but* you do get an advantage if you have work done in your home. About 20% of the income you pay to the workers is removed from your tax liability ( a tax credit, not a deduction), which can be significant.
Thank you for the video! I can only imagine the amount of grunt work you had to put into finding out the numbers for the comparison. The length speaks for itself into how complicated this issue is and how many variables there are in this topic. I will watch part 2 and see what you've added there, and add my own thoughts in the end of it
13:33 Common misconception: The extra solidarity tax or surcharge ("Solidaritätszuschlag" in German, "Soli" or "SolZ" for short) is also paid by those in former East Germany, not just those in former West Germany. Since 2021 it has been scaled back considerably and may be scrapped entirely in the coming years due to legal considerations.
Not only were/are all Germans paying the "Soli", the official reason for implementing this special tax were (read it at Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung) the financial burdens from reunification and the Second Gulf War (!)
or in Original text:
"Am 14. Mai 1991 stimmte der Bundestag erstmals für die Einführung eines Solidaritätszuschlags. Grund waren finanzielle Belastungen durch die Wiedervereinigung und den Zweiten Golfkrieg. 1995 wurde der Soli erneut eingeführt und seither von Kontroversen begleitet."
Also, what is often misunderstood: the 5.5 per cent are calculated based on the income tax, not the gross income.
So many calculations: utterly impressive! As for the final outcome: indeed, not very surprising for a European; the standard of living for a moderately well-to-do German family is not that different from an American one - which is obvious enough by appearances alone. As for the "peace of mind" bonus: there is also a social factor to it which is hard to calculate. Making sure, via taxation, that even people in low-income brackets are able to afford a basic standard of living is likely to support social stability, lower crime rates, etc. On a personal note: seeing these figures makes me realize I made all the wrong career choices...
Excellent video Ashton! I normally drift off whenever finances are talked about but you are an fantastic teacher.
ah wow, thank you so much!
I love your videos and watch all of them! Thanks for all of your hard work, both of you. We've had the opportunity to live in Europe twice and loved it both times and are looking forward to doing it again.
Great video, I love to think about these things as well. One thing I noticed is that when you compare those family costs, the price of child care is really only relevant from the ages of 1-5 or so, and then in the US the kids go to school where child care is free. So, the heavy cost the American family has to pay for child care is actually pretty short-lived. Of course, there is the issue of saving for college which is another one altogether (although, Americans can also go to Europe for free education like I did).
Another aspect to consider would be the fact that Steve is probably only getting 2 weeks of vacation whereas Max should have around 5. So Steve is working more for his salary with less time to enjoy it. I think going further into the differences between sick leave between the two countries could also be relevant to highlight just how much more of a safety net there is in Germany. But I know the video was already very long so I get why you didn't have time to include this stuff. I enjoyed it thanks!
I could be wrong, but I think the EU also enjoys like half an hour more free time per day (less work hours) and the commute or driving experience is often better and shorter. This is a very huge thing to me since having three hours vs three and a half hours of free time more during the work day is pretty substantial.
Great job! I am German and I have lived 2 years in the US. I believe the cost of groceries is higher in the US since a lot of agricultural products are subsidzed in Germany. If you have to feed a familiy you will notice the difference!
Not sure a much bigger farming country and bigger economies of scale (and population) would not mean food prices might be higher (outside perhaps dairy) in Germany.
@@Verwaygen Good points. I would note that average saleries in NY are likely higher than in Munich hence the higher housing cost. I'd also note that NY is a location for lots of inward housing speculation and hot money investment unlike Munich which drives up housing costs and leaves less for just an "ordinary" NY resident. Germany also has strong tenant rights (as do some places in NY to be fair but its not universal as it is in Germany). From watching the vid and reading the comments, the US is great as long as nothing "bad" ever happens ie unemployment, illness, low wage trap and having kids. So in a perfect life, the US is great (assuming personal safety is not an issue). As for food, remember that our farm subsidies both dampen farm gate costs but also mean less competition when supply exceeds demand. The US can also export alot of food to canada where farming is harder and import cheap food from Mexico where some foods grow easier- all accessible by road-rail. If it wasn't for EU farm subsidies, European food would be alot more expensive.
@@stephendoherty8291 Groceries are dirt cheap in Germany. More expensive in the US.
Great comparison, I enjoyed your video! I would humbly like to add more dramatics to the picture you have drawn. As a German living in the US with great State Healthcare, I have to say that US Healthcare today is MUCH MUCH more expensive than in your calculation unless your family never sees a doctor. We hit our deductibles sometimes already in January or February. Depending on what else you need, the family out-of-pocket is not that far-fetched either. When you change employers, you usually end up paying twice the deductible because insurance changes. Unemployed workers can get Cobra, but it is so expensive that many remain uninsured. Housing costs are also MUCH MUCH more expensive in the U.S. Rents are dirt cheap in Germany. German rents in the metropolitan areas are like living in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming. Groceries are MUCH MUCH more expensive in the US. A family of 4 easily spends $1500-2000 a month on food and household goods. Insurances in the US are MUCH more expensive than in Germany. In Germany, I could insure my car with 15 million max per accident a year for the amount I pay here bimonthly with only 300k max coverage. Homeowners insurance is out of a different universe. Granted, the South where we live has higher storm risks and earthquakes, but my friends in Germany never believe that a humble home in the US quickly eats up $3500-5000 in insurance a year. Let's also not forget the property taxes at 0.5-2.5% of the home's value, depending on the state you live in. The German family does MUCH MUCH better than just 1000EUR a year in disposable income.
Even state colleges now have at least $20k/semester in tuition fees for in-state students (out of state, usually doubles). Only having about 20k in student debt assumes a lot of prestigious scholarships, living rent-free, and shopping at your parents' fridge.
2k a month on groceries is insane, I lived in Atlanta with 5 other siblings and we only spent about 300 a month on groceries.
Excellent overview! I would love to see an additional scenario where both families had a baby, including medical costs and parental leave. As you say, it's difficult to factor for medical expenses, but having a baby is something many people experience, aspire to or can relate to. Keep up the good work!
SO true. When we were in America we had to save for years to have a baby! And then going back to work wasn't an option because the cost of daycare! And now here in Bavaria I receive money monthly and daycare is subsidized. Which means I CAN work and add to our bottom line.