The Last Shard!? | December 2023 Spoiler Stream Words of Brandon Part 2 | Shardcast
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- The Words of Brandon never end, and we are wrapping up the December spoiler stream. This episode we... kind of learn something about the final Shard. We also go on a massive history lesson about it, which is possibly entertaining. There's also tons of Yumi WoBs!
Today we have Eric (Chaos), Ian (Weiry), Evgeni (Argent), who doesn't speak this language, and lastly we have David (Windrunner)!
Watch the full stream here: • (Re-upload) Spoiler Li...
Here are the WoBs we talked about in this episode: wob.coppermind.net/collection...
Dragonsteel Prime sample chapters: www.brandonsanderson.com/drag...
0:00 Introductions
4:30 Can Odium's champion not be native to Roshar?
6:01 Are Odium and Cultivation aware of Thaidakar?
9:50 Is the Shroud made of Identity?
14:26 The Sixteenth Shard!? Also all the Ingenuity stuff
43:20 Yoki-hijo initiation
49:24 Can Yumi travel offworld?
1:01:44 Is Iron Seven Waystation a space station?
1:06:57 Yellow hion
1:11:28 UTol visible through the Shroud
1:15:24 UTol's significant to the cosmere
1:19:26 Did Komashi ecology survive?
1:21:35 What else could yoki-hijo actually do?
1:43:01 Who's That Cosmere Character
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LewsTherinTelescope also asked about his RAFO WoB at C2E2 this weekend and says: "a) yes that is indeed about the last Shard (which was obvious from his reaction but good to have more explicitly), b) it will be named in Stormlight 5 (might've already known this), and c) yes it's relevant that Hoid talks about four concepts together there."
Also, do canals use water? -Eric
No, i don't believe that a canal must use water, but instead must be a path of non solid in which a vessel that is possible to travel on said non solid. in other words, a road that is not made of solid that not-cars car go on.
@@hexagonal7499 if you hypothetically blow a very large hole in a mountain range does it become a (probably rather poor) plane canal?
Is that question a reference to that one time where a scientist (Schiaparelli) used the word “canal” about geographic structures on Mars and accidentally implied that they were sentient beings on Mars?
@@archierowe3893the original guy didn't call them canals, but it was mistranslated into English as canals instead of channels.
So it was the translators who implied sapient beings on Mars, not the original scientist
@@hexagonal7499canals do not need to be navigable. Los Angeles is full of canals which are intended to move water, not craft
The "Hoid telling these stories at his interplanetary war crimes trial" idea is unironically amazing.
I really like the theory that the gold/yellow Iriali are the 3rd Hion.
The Iriali were given life and asked to experience the universe before eventually returning to “the one”. An artist might be interested in gaining access to all those experiences and being able to sense the universe in that way.
I'm digging that idea too! -Eric
Shoutout to Evgeni trying to remember the tomato analogy and coming up with "Is tomato a soup... No, ketchup, not soup," thereby correcting himself even further from the real phrase.
I got close enough!
I think the third yelllow hion line just comes naturally from the cmyk color model and doesn't have to be something that brandon has has a particular idea on, just a potential space where something might be.
Hahaha hearing their hope about the signing line when Brandon ran out of time before reaching Evgheni. Calling him out by name even. I wonder if he got around to asking that question over the meal they were going to be having later?
I ended up asking it during my signing spot
@@_argent Good to hear!
@@_argent And you got RAFOd
Got rafo'ed over dinner too I bet. Haha 😂
"Welcome to the 17th tangent."
If the vessel of Wisdom/Intellect ever drops the shard, Paleo is going to be first in line to pick it up with all the heavy lifting they did to forge those connections! Great job!
I think Yellow Hion will be how they get their batteries. They have a Push and Pull, and a third thing could be 'potential'. Potential for either or both. Sounds like a battery to me. How they discover Yellow Hiom, no idea.
Brandon read Shallan's chapters.
Ba Ado Mishram was the highlight.
As soon as I heard it, I am waiting for Eric's reaction.
Where did he read that? Are there excerpts from it?
Excerpt from C2E2 is here! wob.coppermind.net/events/535/#e16576
Unfortunately, you may not get to see my reactions on the show until December. I'm corrupted with knowledge :) We'll see. It's getting harder to talk about SA5 previews. But I'll just say that my reaction upon first reading it was "BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM!!!" -Eric
C2E2 WoBs and stuff will be a bit away, though. At least one, if not more, episodes. -Eric
Hoid's statement about timliness was a self-congratulatory thing. And a comment on Taln showing up possibly in the nick of time? Anyway, Hoid's whole thing is being there when he needs to be. He's the Timeliness part of that speech. That's the surface level reading and the deeper reading, all at once. Neat.
Hoid talks about timeliness a lot. In storytelling and in comedy, timing is important. He always seeks to make his entrances at exactly the right time. He taps Fortune to always be in the right place at the right time. And as he said to Shallan, he made a vow to always be there when he's needed, even if he made light of that fact a moment later.
With regards to Yoki-Hijo, when I read the book I had the impression that Yumi being so highly invested wasn't the normal state of a Yoki-hijo. Invested yes, Elantrian level probably not. They make a point of how insane the number of spirits she called on that first day we witness was. Given her 1700+ plus years of honing her skill and art I assumed her power grew.
The story talks about how the spirits take something from her each time she calls them and they grant her request, but that this something grows back. In my mind this was part of her investiture and it functions similar to muscles and bones in a body where each time it heals it grows back a little stronger. Perhaps the better analogy here is in her body or soul being a container for investiture and the capacity it has grows larger over time the more she practices.
Just given what purpose the Yoki-Hijo serve I've always found it strange for them to all be walking around with Elantrian level investiture.
Just wanted to point out that while Rayse mentions sending his troops offworld, Raboniel tells Navani that she couldn't leave the system.
One theory is that the iriali are the third hion line. I have no idea if that really works but it's something.
Seen this theory before but not sure it works. I think the Iriali have been on Roshar since before Virtuosity splintering herself and the philosophy of the One seems more like a reference to Adonalsium.
I wasnt expecting deep WOB lore when I clicked on this video, but I sure am glad I got it
Just want to repeat i love I would not have even known Evgene was at the recent SLA5 reading(Shallan chapters) had brandon not called him out on stage they were having dinner after. Found it funny😂
Happy birthday to me! You talked about my question, can't wait to listen to hear what you had to say!
Pretty sure the third Hion Line being yellow refers to the Golden Haired Iriali. It would fit with their idea of expression and their broken shard
Seen this theory before but not sure it works. I think the Iriali have been on Roshar since before Virtuosity splintering herself and the philosophy of the One seems more like a reference to Adonalsium.
@@obviousalias132 Its possible that it takes place before Virtuosity's splintering and hence the reason we don't see the yellow Hion line is because that part had already been split off.
@@ramblingdad7764 yeah but if they left before the splintering of Virtuosity it would be weird for the philosophy of the One to be derived from that.
@@obviousalias132could be the philosophy is unrelated
@@kingdot2616 not according to above theory but could be. I just see it as very unlikely. I think the theory that the Iriali were the original inhabitants of Elantris since it was found abandoned by the ancestors of the current population in Arelon is more plausible.
The last question is kinda quirky in a way where it's like the Yoki-hijo could have benefited from a group like the Five Scholars to push the limits of their capacity. But the Five Scholars developed Nightblood and Komashi had it's own version of Nightblood with the Father Machine.
At least coppermind only affects the fandom rather than influencing Brandon. I work on the Assassin's Creed wiki and mistakes we make sometimes creep into the actual lore later down the road because Ubisoft doesn't have a good internal database.
Oh my god. Terrifying. -Eric
@@17thShard yeah its not great. and the fact they don't have a good internal database means fansites like ours are possibly the only repository for certain lore when Ubisoft makes entries no longer accessible. And sometimes we are don't have everything transcribed before the that time. So there is quite a bit of lost media.
Truly terrifying
did i stop listening to the Canticle episode to switch to this as soon as i got the notification? you know i did.
I would put money on the wisdom Shard being called Enlightenment.
Finally Ian is back!!
38:43 They also get Shard Blades, Shard Plates and Shard of Adonalsium wrong.
So they translated some of the epigraphs in Rhythm of War as "Magic Sword" referring to Shards of Adonalsium and readers would be - "Like ...wtf?"
Guys, the Yellow hion refers to CMYK and more directly to trichromatic theory of color. This can be read as Virtuosity during splintering lost o third of herself or simply that the part that are left no longer sum up to her fully. And I do think that this IS very relevant in a sense that this very strongly indicate how prevalent role trichromatic theory IS playing in the Cosmere with Physical Realm, Cognitive Realm and Spiritual Realm being prime example of this.
Also in our world an echo of that theory Quantum chromodynamics is one of the building blocks of our understanding of the universe at quantum size.
I do expect this to start popping out more and more so don't discard it. Brandon "Hi hi" is very telling here.
Yep, we mentioned that it's CMYK. One quick thing though, quantum chromodynamics has nothing to do with actual colors. That is purely just names of different "types" and is just as arbitrary as positive or negative charge. And of course it can't actually be color, because color depends on electromagnetic radiation, which is governed by quantum electrodynamics. Chromodynamics is the strong force, and not QED or electroweak stuff.
Never forget that physicists wanted to name the top and bottom quarks the truth and beauty quarks but it was decided they were too silly.
Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to say some of that stuff you mention is related to trichromatic color theory. I would not say the three realms have much to do with that. However it's certainly possible that the yellow is a splinter that Virtuosity has lost; that I agree with. -Eric
@@17thShard Wrote the comment after you finished discussing that wob and move to the next one and CMYK was discussed past that point.
As for chromodynamics, the mathematics used to describe colors is the same as the mathematics describing strong force interaction between quarks (yes for the sake of simplicity let's ignore strange and charm and all the quantum buzz).
I think it is very unlikely that Brandon inspiration for the laws of his magic system wasn't electromagnetic and strong force. I don't think I can with good conscience argue that conceptually, for push-pull being electromagnetism, scientific connection came before he wrote Mistborn but without a doubt three hions for the equivalent for strong force definitely started as real theory that was bringed to cosmere.
We know Brandon did briefly worked with fizisist on trying to create equations for investiture echoing general relativity (at least equivalent for E=mc2) so it is very likely the extent of the work done was more than we know.
I genuinely believe you are missing rather obvious parallel here.
I will get out my particle physics book and look up the QCD stuff. I did it at an undergrad level, and I am not a particle physicist, but I am *very* certain--and I did Google this to check--that the color labels are just labels to help humans remember that there are three types. You could call them "flavors" and it has the same meaning in a physics sense. But hey, I'll check my Griffiths particle physics book on my shelf to see how he explains something. Having delved through these equations, I have a hard time believing that they have anything to do with actual color and color perception. -Eric
From Elementary Particle Physics, by David Griffiths, Second Edition: "I need hardly say that the term 'color' here has absolutely no connection with the ordinary meaning of the word. Redness, blueness, and greenness are simply labels used to denote three new properties that, in addition to charge and strangeness, the quarks possess."
So I guess it depends what you mean by the "math used to describe colors," as I don't really know what you specifically mean by that. I'll just say these equations that govern this are... a lot, and I have a hard time imagining your statement on QCD being true. The only sense this is the same is that if you combine a red quark, blue quark, and green quark, the baryon is colorless. But, this is just to help us understand the physics, and has no meaning on actual reality. They don't literally have colors like our eyes perceive them. We could call the three types of this property "blargh" "ooof" and "florgen" and it has just as much relevance as calling them red, blue, and green.
I think it's possible that QCD was an inspiration, maybe, but it's far more likely it's just CMYK stuff. Which makes far more sense, since those are actually cyan and magenta. -Eric
1:52:25 I definitely thought the "Who's That Cosmere Character" was Huio up until the 5th clue
I watched the Sel history video recently and you spend a good chunk of time on those pendants hahaha
For the hion lines going between planes, in my mind the hion lines are not physical. So my thought is that it just connects between the planets and the length is constantly growing/ contracting to meet the needed length. An interesting question is if it is following a straight line between the two or if it is following like, something similar to a transfer orbit trajectory.
And I think that you just sometimes cant use the hion line for travel, ie when yhe line passes through the sun (in the straight line case)
The yellow hion is the connection of virtuosity to the rest of the power of adonalsium/its governing dawnshard
"I don't speak this language" is officially my new meme phrase, much obliged Evgeni
Get out of jail card
1:06:00 That's actually a real mind twist, with how Hoid is portrayed in Sunlit vs. returning to full goofiness in Yumi
So WRT "Could Nightblood Eat a Dawnshard" i feel like the answer has to be no.
He didn't really "Eat" Odium, he just killed Rayse. The shard was still there for Taravangian to pick up. I imagine the Dawnshard would be the same, he would swallow enough investiture to kill the holder of the Dawnshard and then the dawnshard would drop to the floor like loot.
On Yoki-Hijo initiation, I think it has a lot to do with community belief. Art is in a lot of ways a community activity, and our community influences how we view it. Perception is important to a lot of Cosmere magic systems, and especially Komashi’s (Painter and his whole arc with his art). It would not surprise me if the way the initiation worked was that the pre-shroud Komashi saw something they thought was auspicious (the shooting star), that they thought marked the birth of a special person and that community belief, made more magically significant given that the investiture here is Virtuosity’s, compelled the spirits to invest this person who the community deemed significant with their power. No Yoki-Hijo are born in the time of the shroud, of course, because the spirits are trapped and unable to facilitate giving anyone power. This way the magic system is neither genetic nor random (at least not directly) I really think we have mostly everything we need to solve this particular magic system because from an out of universe perspective, I don’t think we’re ever going to return to this world in any meaningful way, aside from maybe the occasional Easter egg or mention whenever we here more about UTol (I suspect we’ll hear about the fate of the planet, maybe the return of the Yoki-Hijo now that the spirits are back, but not much more than this). Stuff like the Yellow Hion will probably tie more into other Virtuosity magic systems or some broader Cosmere principle. I think the pieces of a dead god quote is more of a piece of poetic language and a red herring.
Edit: it being a cultural perception could also explain why Yoki-Hijo are all women. At some point Komashi culture must have decided this was something that only women could, or should, do. Cultures have gender roles, and I don’t really see the spirits really caring themselves.
Providence is “the timely preparation for future events” or “the protective power of God”. Given that the Hoid monologue concludes that timeliness is the key, I’m leaning even more towards it.
Harmony is the environment shard.....legally distinct captain planet.
Looking forward to that WTCC episode!
Maybe the third hion line is the friends me made along the way
I am so curious about more Elantris stuff :-D
I think I needed a WoB ep after Queen of Tears completely destroyed my emotions and took away all of my energy.
Re: Yumi traveling offworld, maybe it has something to do with the way the Investiture is co-mingled in the soul? Brandon has said Breath is sticky, so that may be why it can be taken off world. If Yumi's yoki-hijo Investiture is similarly sufusing her, could that be what would let her leave the system?
Wow.... That chapter in Bands with Wayne is literally my favorite chapter in the whole book... Do people really hate it that much? It was the first time I really understood Wayne
So many wobs :3
You didn't get Cha quite right, it's "Selling a tomato based fruit salad as a Salsa"
A+ mumbo jumbo episode
Elantrians can world hop and their Shards are... damaged, in a similar sense to Virtuosity and invested in similar levels as Yumi 🤔
I def got that last one quickly b/c I was only assuming the 6th clue would exist. haha
Yumi's body was created in an act of virtuosity, which has been shown to do very weird things even when it's not on the planet where all the investiture is splinters of Virtuosity.
Painter wanted Yumi back, he got Yumi back. Creatives in the Cosmere can manifest their will if they create hard enough. Maybe it ties into what Brandon said about there not being a Platonic ideal of a table, everything is filtered through sapience. Certain people can tap into the spiritual realm and shape and manifest stuff. Kal with the wooden horse, Shallan with the sketch weirdness, and Painter here. Why can some people do it and not others? Why are Painter, Shallan and Kaladin all almost supernaturally skilled at their arts. I dunno.
OK Painter might not be almost supernaturally good at painting but, he's probably one of the best painters in a culture that produces a lot of painters.
What's yellow hion good for? Full color K-dramas.
Ok so if we’re assuming that this final shard is smart enough to stay out of all the conflict in the Cosmere. Wisdom, intellect, survival (ish), prudence, whatever this shards intent… what if it’s the best at future sight out of all shards. What if it doesn’t just want to hide but it KNOWS to hide until the proper time. Like doctor strange with the only one possible future to win, it will only get involved when it needs to in order to make the future it saw the most likely to occur
Could be Discretion which would pair nicely with Valor.
Insight seems like a shardy word similar to wisdom
Seons are the only way to get what? Couldn't parse it at any speed (57:40)
ansible - faster than light communication. Shows up in stuff like Ender's Game.
I've figured out the reason the third Hion would he yellow. What are the primary colours, blue red and yellow, right?
Wrong. That's what we tell children because we don't know if they actually want to be mixing colours when they grow up. The true primary colours are Magenta, Cyan and Yellow.
Yes, this is referring to CMYK. -Eric
I think the last Shard is either called Providence or Judgment. Providence is a very has a biblical relation (the idea that God not only created the world but takes care of its welfare).
Could be Discretion which would pair nicely with Valor.
So Davide is a Mariners fan. What about the rest of the staff?
I'll just speak for myself, I have never really followed any sports. -Eric
I think you guys should reread the wob about Kaladin's skill with the spear. It says pretty much the opposite of what y'all seem to think it says.
Yes, we are making a joke. :) longstanding meme. -Eric
@@17thShard I mean yeah but it's tough to tell if the joke is because you thought that's what the wob actually meant or not - when I watched the original episode that was the impression I got
Sure, sure. Maybe would be good for us to do a retrospective on some of these jokes and take a look again. -Eric
Odiums champion will be elocars son, and dalanar will lose.
What if the 16th shard IS the Cognitive Realm. As in, what it that's where it's hiding...in plain sight (so-to-speak). To be clear, I mean it IS the place, not that it's hiding there, but that it's hiding by being that place. It's a place where anyone can look, stare right at it, and never realize they are looking at a shard the entire time. So, the shard name would be Cognition.
Also, when is Evgeni ever not Trelling?
That’s like having a Shard called Physical, or Spirit. I don’t think any of them can embody one of the three realms since all the Shards have a Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual aspect.
:)
My prediction is Talenel will be Odium's champion. He didn't break, because he pulled an Anikin Skywalker.