"Why is [insert politician here] concerned about the demographic crisis?" ...Because they don't want the country's pension/tax systems to collapse by 2075. Next question.
Why this issue isn't the top issue for every European government is beyond me. Importing people from Africa with the faint hope that they work slave wages for megacorporations instead of just abusing wellfare is more simple I guess....
@@metalsnake869 Importing mostly male africans also just increases the pension costs in long run. Males wont make more babies and the few women that come, will have same fertility as natives
@@metalsnake869 thing is, with the current age demographics just increasing birthrates now is too late, it'll take over two decades until a decision to have a baby turn into a fully productive member of society
As a hungarian, I think the emigration of young hungarians as part of the problem is missing from this video. It has many causes, but one of them Orban's illiberal policies, which make the country less attractive to the more left leaning youth. So the most educated, young and wealthy populus is leaving the country, which is the biggest sin of Orban's regime in the historic scale. Many hungarian children are born abroad, which doesnt help the hungarian fertility rate, and they most propably will never be hungarians in the future.
Good point. I can't think of any country that is ruled and not governed (read dictatorship) that people want to move to. Opportunities are not there for everyone, only those of the approved 'in group'.
And even if you're the approved group for now, there's no way of knowing whether you'll fall out of favour in the future for one reason or another. The whole thing creates an atmosphere of uncertainty, which is actually the biggest thing causing birthrates to decrease imo
Yep. I'm in neighbourhood. Many young Hungarians study and work here, and not only left leaning, also center and even some right. Majority of those people fleeing are young women! Their descriptions of Orbans regime are less than complimentary.
its time europe just like australia, siberia, america, hawaii, new zealand when native replaced by others people, it karma, it time for Eurobistan when muslim stick to family traditional value, marry young, have many children and stick together. that who species survive, tht why no sex before marriage safe muslim and ger marriage, take responsibility, europe lost this. not just church's empty even christian easy to be mock and insult, this how others group will replace you,
The family allowance program was a total flop, it contributed greatly to the housing crisis in Hungary. They should have gone with social housing programs and government owned construction initiatives (but you see, that would have lowered house prices, and we can't have that).
@jonathan2847 Well if you're going by historical facts of housing crisises being solved, did you know that's not actually true? And housing is EASY AND CHEAP to solve, if it is actually wanted, so many historical examples, Vienna being my favourite. But there may historical examples. The rent of working people pays the cost of the housing, and prefab apartments mean less labour. And no, you are not forced to live in them, buy whatever you want if you can afford it. And how on earth can you increase fertility without solving housing? Impossible, right? Yes it is. Otherwise just mass migration as band aid solution.
As a Hungarian woman myself who does want to have children in the future I can tell you that these measures are not going to be effective until the public hospitals and healthcare system is on the way of collapsing (no money for essential things like soap and disinfectants, imagine giving birth in such place...), also the state of the schooling system (from what I heard there is not enough space in kindergartens, 1 kindergarten teacher for 30+ children). The level of education is also going down. So to provide a good life to your children, you would probably need to pay for private healthcare and private schools. And then I didn't even mention the overall "everyone hates everyone" atmosphere or that my children would be mixed so they would get significant hate in the country. This is why I am an expat and my Hungarian children will probably be born outside of the country.
And you are one of many that act this way. The problem is the lack of freedom and paternalism and etatism of the Hungarian state and its anti democratic leadership who rules instead of governs.
@@Hyper584kdo you want this woman to fix the government??? are you serious? what is she gonna do? it’s the politicians that should fix everything (but they don’t and never will) so… people leave
You left out emigration and that is the most important aspect. Hungarian women often have their children outside of Hungary, because these incentives, are nothing compared to the standards of living that a non autocracy can provide.
Do more hungarians emigrate than other eastern europeans? I would imagine that it's almost impossible to keep people in a poorer society when they can easily move to a richer society and make more money. Just as an example, I've read that a third of Italians below 40 years of age want to move to another country.
women of each EU nation have more children abroad than domestically - doesn't matter which nationality moved where, it will always be higher than domestic.
Spending double your defense budget on children is nothing to be ashamed of. Not understanding the underlying trends though is something different. Hungary is simply not a pro future society people would want to birth children into.
I think too, that encouraging to start families is a very good investment is definitely no shame by itself. I really would like to see more of these in western european countries. Germany is doomed even with a lot of immigration
@@Exodius3 Most "demographic" problems are blown out of proportion. Germanys productivity always heavily outpaced its demographic trends. To put it bluntly, if your income grows faster than your costs, then rising costs aren't much of a problem. But its for sure a challenge for modern capitalism to imagine a successful economy without eternal growth into every direction.
its not that easy, they do have corruption but the country got better. Maybe someone else would ve done better but the economy is better than it used to be
It was like that since always, Orban precedesors also mismanaged country and were quite corrupted - that's why people didn't cared initially as much about Orban doing same as it was normal and kinda expected. I just feel it's worth noting what the proper situation was there and why Orban could take such firm grip on the country, someone needed to prepare it for situation like that beforehand...
Emmigration was and still is a big problem for a lot of ex-communist states but Hungary's emigration rate of 7.3% is below the EU average and significantly lower than sounding countries (Slovakia 7.7; Romania 20.5; Croatia 25.4; Poland 12.6; Czechia 9.7)
@@rixorobertthat probably isnt because the hungarian youth doesnt want to move abroad, rather because we arent as skilled and educated as a society and they cant get worthy jobs.
I love how Japan has been a study on these "benefits" for a while now, but even though it has shown that these benefits never work, they just go and say "ah, they didn't do it right, we will make it right, it will work, you will see!", just to fail again, rinse and repeat.
To be fair Japan has additional problems. A highly patriachal society that is set in the boomer ways, work hours that are far too high with nonsense incentives, aka be a good lad and stay in the office for 10 hours. All that stress and work time alone reduces the time to make babies but also fertility. Stress is a fertility killer for men and women
@@nelyyisoppy6509 Communists significantly improved the living standards of people in Russia and turned a country from backwards to 2nd post powerful country in the existence of humanity I'd say there's a better record of them working than throwing money at people to have kids
@@sciencefliestothemoon2305 Yes that is the reason for the low fertility rate but that shouldn't change an increase in fertility rates if money as an incentive would actually help
@@sciencefliestothemoon2305 I feel like the stress is a worldwide thing. Our future is going to get worse and worse with every decade ebcause of climate change, who would want to make a child in these conditions?
my hometown in South Germany has a high birthrate, because living there is family friendly and provides a positive future. only housing crisis is limiting it...
I'm a hungarian who earns enough to have have children, and is currently married. We see no point getting a child here, because we have no trust in the government's institutions. Hospitals suck, and education is in the dumps. Getting a check for a few thousand euros with no strings attached does NOT help me, getting good quality education and healthcare for my child does, else I end up paying for private waaaay more than what little they helped. Also the "160k of new children" is a completely fudged number. It takes the lowest ever birth rate (i think early 2010s), extends it till now, and assumes that as a baseline births we would have had, had the policies not been enacted. Thus, it attributes any "extra" as the result of policies. This is just headline hunting math, sure some kids were born because of the extra money, but large parts of the 160k would have been born even without the benefits as we had one of the best economic growth cycles in the 2010s. Old people love these policies, but they are not the people who have to "make" the children. Also the video mentions that tax breaks are only effective for people that earn above a certain salary threshold. This is factually false. In Hungary we do NOT have progressive income tax brackets. Even minimum wage earners need to pay 15% income tax, and 18.5% social security tax. By getting 4 children you no longer pay the 15% income tax, but you still pay the 18.5% social security tax.
He was right, he meant tax breaks are more effective for high income families as they pay significant amount of taxes... This is right. Low income family gets the same proportion but that is not significant amount...
@@IRGodful yes, the policy alone isn't the main driver of births. Financial development plays a huge factor too. Early 2010 birth numbers caved following the 2008 financial crisis, where a lot of people lost their homes in 2009/10/11 due to foreign currency (Swiss frank mostly) denominated mortgages defaulting. This is the baseline you're comparing to, where housing for many Hungarians was a huge uncertainty. Since that the economy stabilized towards the end of 2010s and more people felt secure in their jobs, income increased, willingness to have kids did too. Yes, the policies helped but they are a drop in a bucket. By saying all the extra births are only contributed to the pro-birth policies, it also assumes that nothing else improved. No real wage growth, no economic recovery, no job stability, etc... Go back to 95, no policies exist that reward having kids, and yet there's a higher birthrate.
europoors struggle to understand this, unfortunately including orban, but healthcare and education will get better when they're not government monopolies
Housing subsidies and the "baby loan" done nothing since those who sold houses raised real estate prices building in the extra cash into the base prices of said real estates...so this resulted in families going back to square one, and those couples who do not have children but would like to buy a home, now have to pay 30.000 EUR more, bcs of the Baby Loans handed out to families with kids. Orbán is struggling, but nothing ia happening...
@@rixorobert The Treasury is empty. We have a 75% national debt, we are full of Chinese loans with interest rates going truth the roof and JUST the INTEREST for state bonds and the loans Orbán took to keep this show running is about 2500 BILLION HUF annually, more than the government is spending on Healthcare and Education combined..., + the EU fining us 1 million EUR PER DAY due to non compliance which ia accumulating since Orbán doesn't give a sh1t paying it nor to comply with EU rules. The government doesn't have money to build houses for the people, the government doesn't do any projects were it cannot steal a considerable amount of the money. Hungary is lost...
@@rixorobert State doesn't get involved in doing anything if there is no chance to steal money. + the Treasury is empty...our national debt is 75%...its just a matter of time before we go bankrupt.
@@blueboy3990 it's less likely that they will live to adulthood and so it's compensated by having more children. If the children who died before 18 were excluded from those calculations the birthrate would be lower
Hungarians do not want to become peoples of mixed race"? The Hungarians have been a people of mixed race since the Magyars arrived in Europe from Asia a thousand years ago. Even their language today has its roots on the far side of the Urals.
History is definitely not Orbans strength. :D Even after settling down majority of Hungarian rulers relocated different nationalities to the kingdom, practically making hungarian THE most mixed race of Europe. But somehow the far right people ignore these history lessons.
is it about becoming mixed race or is it about gang rape and terrorist attacks? its not like there isn t a thousand problems coming with mass immigration from the middle east and africa
Even weirder is that the people who ruled the Panonian basin before them were the Avars who's elites are widely believed to be of Mongolic origin with IIRC mixed greek and slavic peoples in their population.
Well, I'm glad someone is performing the experiment in order to find out that it doesn't work. I'm also glad that my own country isn't so that I don't have to pay for it.
The rich families gets the most advantages of the benefits it makes no sense! The Russians are still attacking Ukraine we cant allow to drop defence budget!
I mean yes of course but throwing tax credits and random 30k euro loans out instead of actually addressing the real problems doesn't fix anything. People want better education, healthcare, and dont see a future in Hungary. Even if these things cause a slight increase in birth rate it's not the actual problems. These comments are full of people talking about their own experiences living in Hungary and how bad it is, clearly it's not just a money issue or social issue. It has everything to do with the living standards and things I mentioned before
Maybe if there was more internal organic growth you would have a healthier population. Importing adults to fill a void puts enormous strain on housing.
Tax break for mothers doesn't work because mothers with 4+ children usually don't have a job as they need to dedicate 100% of their time to a family. Instead you need to just pay them or have tax exempts to households.
Oh... you really thought they made the exempt of income tax for "yous"?! :D Nope... Its for their friends and family who have their own "family business" (mostly outbought small businesses thanks to their price cap and ethical smoke and mirrors) They put their already welahty wifes as business operators to shovel more money to their family bank account. :D
As a Hungarian, first of all, I'm very glad that TLDR finally made a video about Hungary, which focuses on the reality and shows the real economic and social problems of the country. I'm also glad, that this video was not used to demonize Hungary or falsely calling us pro-Russians, Orban-lovers and nationalists, but to show some of the real life problems, which Orban make in Hungary with his policies. About the topic, Orban is a huge fan of families with three or more children. In 2015, the government created the Family Home Creation Allowance policy (in Hungarian: CSOK), with which Hungarian families - based on how many children they have - could get a certain amount of money. This policy was ongoing until 2023, but still available in villages as of 2024. A couple with one child could get €1.500, while with two children, a couple could be granted with an amount of between €3.300 and €6.600, based on what kind of home you wanted to get. But if you had three or more children, you could have as much as €25.000 for obtaining a home. If we make calculations with the number of children and the amount of support the government gives to the couples, these amounts are absolutely unequal. This is a clear sign, that the Hungarian government proudly supports you with their family policies, if you have at least 3 children. If you have only 1 child or 2 children, you will gain almost nothing. For my father, I'm his 4th son, but for my mother, I'm her only child - and my 3 half-brothers are already in the 30s or 40s. My mother gets barely enough support from the government (mainly just increased family allowance). She has a low-paying job, she works at least 7-8 hours in a special school, but she only earns €600, which is the net minimal wage in the county, where we live. The family policy of Orban and the Hungarian government seems to be fascinating to see as an outsider, but in reality, this system is a lot more hierarchical and unstable than you might even think. Here, you only matter to the government, if you have at least 3 children, otherwise you will get rarely or no support at all. Despite Orban encouraging Hungarian women to give birth to more children, this will still not solve the countless economic problems in Hungary as well as the demographic crisis. How the government handled the inflation and the rising prices in the last 1-2 years is critical and there were numerous scandals around them. No wonder, why did they lose more than 1 million supporters in the last two years. And if the economic problems won't solve in the next few years, Hungary will continue to suffer from the demographics crisis, as more young people will rather settle in Western Europe for higher living standards and better opportunities, than start to build a career here in Hungary. Thank you very much TLDR for finally making a very detailed and realistic video about the current real economic and social problems of Hungary!
@@nikobellic570 As far as I know they are too qualified for these. Well to do (read: middle class) individuals certainly take advantage of them. As for the rest... I'm not so sure. To address the second question: The majority of them don't have the opportunity to leave the country, given that they don't speak neither English, German or other languages. (There are other reasons surely, but this was the fisrt that came to mind.)
This isn't true. The overwhelming majority of Hungarians love and idolize Orbán. It's similar to Putin and the Russians, they love a strong leader that fuels their nationalistic pride and hatred towards Europe. Just the fact that 80% of Hungarians consider themselves to be Asian rather than European is telling !
My plumber in the UK has been married to a Hungarian woman for about 15 years. They have two children and want two more. Later this year they are moving to Hungary because they think it would be advantageous to do so precisely because of these policies. He is already in the building trade and they are planning a big house based on selling up their UK home and taking advantage of Hungarian state loans and subsidies.
@@marilenaganea6578 Either the whole social system collapses if the population does not reproduce itself or be flooded with migrants and cease to exist as people. So yeah, this example would be the norm if every country in the EU supported their own people. Too bad that they don't.
@@marilenaganea6578 Dude, everybody who is financially viable in the UK and wants families are fleeing the place due to awful politics. Basically, you have all of your best-trained doctors and construction workers are just going to Australia to start a family, and you're left with the unskilled labor who drains the welfare state. The current English way is not working.
Any true politican should. Most pay little to no attention to the crisis and only make the matter worse by choosing to import workers or export work instead of providing better financial and housing stability to allow people to have children Edit : I love how you just changed the title after comment backlash to be "how his policy is bankrupting Hungary" from "Why does he care about birthrates"
Why should we spend more to accomodate our own people when we can just import some "Asian" with less labor cost, insane work efficiency and come attached with 2 children who will grow up and be a slave to us 😂😂
Housing is horrible in Hungary. Chinese and filipino workers are flooding factories. Dont open your mouth when you just have rubbish that comes out of it
Orban single handedly caused at least a million Hungarians to leave the country, poverty to skyrocket, birthrates to plummet, and life in the county to be more uncertain than ever. His tax cuts, only work for the richest, and wouldn't have more kids because of that. But plummeting birthrates isn't the problem there. Not even the dictator alone. The whole society itself is the problem. Decent societies can eventually get rid of a tyrant and build a better future, but if the whole society is mentally, emotionally completely broken, beyond saving, beyond repair, then removing one tyrant wouldn't help. I'm glad that Hungary with its society isn't a great power with large population and army and nukes and stuff, but merely an isolated little mini-Russia.
Orbán's key success was, which produced a huge share of his voting base, reducing poverty significantly in the countryside of Hungary. According to Eurostat, in 2010 32% of Hungarians were at risk of poverty. In 2023, the same number was 19%, below EU-average. This is the 3rd biggest decrease in the period.
@Tovalokodonc Im Hungarian, and to say that we're letting dictators to run our country is just stupidity. You know we had many revolution in history because we become tired of the tyrants who runned our country. In 1514 Dózsa Győrgy, 1604 Bocskai, 1678 Thököly, 1703 Rákóczi, 1848-49 revolution, 1918-19 autnumn, 1956 revolution and many other minor conflicts.
@@StefanTaf that's true.....if you only single out the birth rate statistic, but if you look at the bigger picture that policy opened up a can of worms and led to WAY bigger problems in the long run
Same happens here in Bulgaria. Us, Bulgarians, think that these "benefits" are not helping at all, but imigrants and gypsies are gladly taking em by having like 6-9 children each and letting them live in poverty!
gypsies dont get anything here, benefits were cut to them as it was linked to schooling and work and they dont like it, so we do it much better here than as you do in Bulgaria
Two economists are walking in a forest when they come across a pile of shit. The first economist says to the other “I’ll pay you $100 to eat that pile of shit.” The second economist takes the $100 and eats the pile of shit. They continue walking until they come across a second pile of shit. The second economist turns to the first and says “I’ll pay you $100 to eat that pile of shit.” The first economist takes the $100 and eats a pile of shit. Walking a little more, the first economist looks at the second and says, "You know, I gave you $100 to eat shit, then you gave me back the same $100 to eat shit. I can't help but feel like we both just ate shit for nothing." "That's not true", responded the second economist. "We increased the GDP by $200!"
@@Sir_Bucket And what is that? Replace all the native Hungarians with a wide variety of immigrants that don't hold Hungarian Morales, values or standards? Ones under a false flag of protection and endorsement by a corrupt and European destroying EU?
@@rixorobert yes but that's a much larger issue. The entire world's demographic growth is slowing down, even in Africa where it is still growing but at a much slower speed than planned. Migration is a very good short term solution as it delays the problem for another generation or two.
seriously need to do something about african population. They are growing literally on subsistence farms and foreign aid, by the time climate change hit their population will blow up and hundreds of uneducated men will be left jobless and in an inlivable state, with pre packaged radical religious ideas and weapons. future is bleak with European and East Asians slowly dying out.
@@belstar1128 The issue is the stupidity of a culture that teaches people that they should have 5-10 children even if they live below the poverty line (and they are less socially worthy if they don't do so)
@@TheGoukarumaThis isn't an issue that you can just throw money at in most EU countries because the issue is down to lifestyles available in society and not exactly money. People working 40+ hours a week with 25 days of holiday don't want kids because they can't spend time with them. Why do they think this? Because they grew up in similar conditions. Things like 4 day work weeks, longer maternity and paternity leave without risking your job, working from home are things that should be done. Wasting money and getting no results instead of realising the issue is lifestyle just shows that they only see families as a means to an end.
How is giving people money for voluntarily doing something treating them like a "birthing-machine"? Maybe he just cares about the future of civilization, that's why we need children.
@@vidisg14 then he should teach the boys to become good and supportive partners, 0 tolerance for abuse against women, stop asking women for 20 years of free labour all by themselves
@@justjaguar2314 European women are looking at South Korean births where women decided to let it burn and loads of us are choosing the same path, I know I did! My ex employer asked me why I decided to never have children... The audacity! I turned to him and asked him if his rich children need a new generation of poor children to exploit... His face! 😳 And to shut this "conversation" down forever I told him that by choosing to not give birth to more children I took away from him not only a future generation of workers but also the future generation of consumer! Let this 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@marilenaganea6578 yup, that's why I don't plan on having children either. Enough people are having them anyways. In my view, the whole population can deal with (and maybe even benefit from) a bit of a decline. Of course we don't have to have it plummet to near extinction, but a reduction from like 2 generations of low birth rates and then keeping those numbers could end up well. People just need to not see "crisis" and "epidemic" and other scary words, they need to understand it themselves.
Helping just parents doesn't work, because the parents see people around in a bad place and don't want to bring a child into the world in such circumstances.
Yeah, well take a credit instead of paying morgage. The younger you are the cheaper the mortgage is. Hungary is still on the lower end in property prices, we still have approx 30%+ expectations for the prices to go up and reach ie Bratislava or Belgrade levels. If you have 50.000 € saved you good to go for the base investment. Every month rent is gift money to someone else. Cheap housing is the most expensive option for a youngster, that know one would ever tell. Only investments will help you grow - be it in real estate, business or education, best is all! Once you understand the flow of cash you are fine.
These fertility crises are becoming ever more frequent -Japan, South Korea, Hungary, the U.S…. It’s almost as if having children has become unaffordable… nah that can’t be it.
@@custos3249 Then why Africa has such a high birth rate? It has to do with culture more than anything, leftists ideologies becoming popular marked a total collapse of the western future with the rise of individualism, who could have thought state capitalism could be so toxic for the human morale lol
@@custos3249 not really. The fertility rate in Cuba fell off a cliff when the revolution happened and has been hovering around 1.5 ever since. Same with Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Their fertility fell dramatically in the 70s when they started introducing strong socialist welfare policies and have been on average below replacement ever since, and falling further in the last decade. Russias fertility collapsed with the end of communism and introduction of neoliberal oligarchy. While Koreas hyper capitalism has also seen a precipitous fall in birth rates. You are right that neoliberal capitalism is awful for working people. But fertility rates really don't seem connected to that. They have been consistently below replacement for decades in communist countries, in social democratic countries, in neo liberal countries, in oligarchies, in one party states, in mixed economies, and many have also seen a further fall in the last decade regardless of their economics and how progressive their governments are. Some have more immediate crisis than others, but they are all on the same trajectory. There is something more universal that is affecting all developed nations regardless of their economics that is the cause
In developed countries with fertility problems, ironically it's countries that women have a greater participation rate in the workforce than have higher birth rates. Tldr: Women want to have children when they feel like they can have a life outside of being a baby machine
@@WhichDoctor1 while you’ve made some valid points, you also have to realize that all the systems of government that you’ve outline are in one form or another subject to the effects of U.S./E.U. led capitalism and have been since the end of the Cold War maybe even WWII because we exist in a global economy dominated by the U.S./E.U.
Even phrases like “natalist” & “immigration as a solution” are strange. Natalism is just being normal to want a productive, healthy society & immigration is not a solution; it’s short term economic boost at best that doesn’t solve the problem & creates its own unique ones
@@ricardobarahona3939 No it didn't. Untill the end of the 60's the US was mostly a homogenous country. Then they singed a bill and opened their borders. That worked so well for them lol.
@@crabLT The US has never been a homogenous country. Throughout US history there have been anti-immigrant idiots who opposed any foreigners from coming, first it was German and Irish immigrants, then it was Eastern/Southern Europeans,Jews, and the Chinese. People who could not look "white" were banned until civil rights laws passed because of how stupid that was. Now the US is a leader in many industries because of immigration. Stop falling for the same lies the know nothing party told themselves.
@@whitezombie10 Hungary's emigration rate is lower than other eastern European countries but nice try. 2 million Hungarians would need to leave tomorrow to match the emigration rates of Romania and Poland over the last 20 years. And 4 million Hungarians to match the emigration rates of Latvia and Lithuania. To the contrary; Orban's leadership has perhaps led to one of the lowest emigration rates in eastern Europe. Only Slovenia and Serbia are lower. One is rich and the other one is nationalist.
@@odinsteffes5278 What all of these braindead leftwing morons miss is that for the first 12 years of Orban's rule, the main opposition party wasn't even a left wing party or a centrist party, it was Jobbik, a far right party. Or at least, further to the right than Orban.
As other commenters have pointed out, a massive issue is that Hungary's public services, healthcare and education system are all struggling, barely keeping on in a lot of instances with the government seemingly openly dismissing these issues, opting to rather trying to silence those who speak up, or to shift the blame to anyone else but them (usually the EU, or "the war"). In situations like this, even people who own large enough homes and/or have stable employment opt for owning pets rather than having children. Or, as others have also pointed out, they emigrate in the hopes for a brighter future for them and their future families.
all people, except maybe for the north sentinelese, are people of mixed race. genetically, hungarians are pretty much identical to austrians with 25% celtic/italic, 25% slavic ancestry (the rest is a colourful mix with a few percent each of anatolian, germanic, greek, south slavic, ...). that one country speaks hungarian and the other german is just an accident of history. central europe is a hotpot of people of different ethnic backgrounds mixing, due to obvious geographic reasons.
2023 in Hungary: - In January, bread inflation was almost 82%, food inflation was over 48%, general inflation was 26.2%, three times the EU average! - In the first quarter, real wages fell the most in Hungary with a 15.6%, which is 4 times of OECD average - In July our money lost 36% of its value in 2 years due to inflation !!! - In January, Lőrinc Mészáros, Orban's main strawman increased the monthly tolls by 72% after he bought the 35-year motorway concession - Lőrinc Mészáros bought a yacht for 27 billion forints, which is almost 11,000 years of average Hungarian pension. Mészáros's wealth increased by 50%, 330 billion forints in a single year - The Matolcsy, the head of central bank (MNB), bought an apartment in New York for 14 billion forints, which is equivalent to 5608 years of average Hungarian pensions. Meanwhile, the MNB has accumulated losses of HUF 2400 billion - The Orbán family's visible! wealth reaches HUF 100 billion, Orbán's father built a mansion in Hatvanpuszta for 10 billion forints - The cows on János Lázár minister's stud farm got waterbeds for HUF 3 billion from the state! - In 2023, Romania overtook Hungary in GDP per capita, - In 2023, Bulgaria overtook Hungary in per capita consumption, making Hungary the poorest member of EU. - Hungary has the 2nd lowest average wage and minimum wage in the EU ! - The Dear Leader has finally found the magic weapon against inflation: he just had to fire the leading statisticians of the Hungarian Statistical Office, put them under the Rogán-led propaganda ministry and the single-digit inflation was achieved...! In 2023, the consumer price index was still 17.6% and food inflation 25.9%. - In 2023, growth (-0.9%) was the 3rd worst in the EU - 700 billion forints spent by the government to buy the Vodafone Hungary and give it away to Orban's stooge (equivalent to about 280,000 years of average Hungarian pensions) - 2021 foreign human traffickers were released from Hungarian prisons in 2023 (official explaination: keeping them in prison is too expensive) - There are already 100,000 Asian migrant workers in Hungary, who are undercutting the wages of Hungarian workers, with their numbers increasing by about 1,000 a month - 40% of the Hungarian population run out of money by the end of the month, with no savings - The Hungarian birth count has fallen to an all-time low - OTP survey shows that 94 out of 100 young people do not want to work in Hungary ! - 125,000 Hungarians already work in Austria - Half a million Hungarians have disappeared in 10 years, the country's population is below 9.6 million, at 1953 levels and falling - In 2023 the budget deficit was 4593 billion forints , about 6.5 percent of GDP, more than double the 3 percent accepted by the EU, the Hungarian state paid the largest interest burden after the national debt in the EU to GDP (4.3%), the interest expenses amounted to HUF 3,500 billion, which is equivalent to 1.26 million years of Hungarian average pension, meanwile GDP growth rate was -0.9%. - In december, a new law was launched to silence critical media outlets and civil organizations!
maybe increase the taxes of billionaires who were gonna buy a second 300 million dollar yacht with 5 different new villas with staff, and spend some of it on families who need money to raise kids
@@blueboy3990 that's why Elon loves Trump, tax cuts and deregulations, and in his case disliking immigrants, which is ironic because he's a visa overstayer if I remember right
@@Ar1AnX1xNo, Elon loves Trump for being anti-woke. Most billionaires like Zuckerberg and Bezos support the DNC. Just shows you that the DNC is also the rich's party.
Then European governments should change laws so that a large majority of people feel like they could have a future instead of just the few at the top feeling that way
When i was growing up people were crying theres too many people and now there aint enough 😂 Nobody is going extinct. Populations worldwide will start to decrease. Will benefit children born in a few generations time and the planet will hopefully heal from less consumption
As a hungarian I must add to this video that the other way Orban trying to achieve this number is banning abortion or making it as hard to get as possible. (As a "mother" you'll have to first listen to the heartbeat of the child and ONLY after that you'll become aligible for the abortion, which risks running out of time)
Bruh what? It's sad they went down this route (similar with Poland). The thing is women get afraid of not only children but sex all together when they know if they get pregnant they will be forced to have a child and be ridiculed for not doing so, they straight up avoid that.
@@justinjoseph8491 that's pretty much the point. anti-abortion rhetorics are strongly linked to women's disempowerment, especially regarding sexuality. the idea is that children are the punishment for having sex, which echoes the christian fundamentalist sentiment that all sex outside of trying to make babies is a sin. but conservatives also want to make sure that this punishment falls squarely on women, unless there are no women in the equation
i heard someone discussing the fertility drop recently. And they said that the majority of the fall in fertility in industrialised nations over the last 70 years can be explained by a massive reduction in women getting pregnant under the age of 18. So basically, not enough teenage mothers is the problem. I remember when i was young the scourge of teenage mothers was a very popular moral panic among conservatives here in the UK for quite a few years. Teenage mothers were publicly scapegoated for every social and economic ill of the nation. Well they got what they wanted, teenage pregnancy has massively reduced, and not only have all the problems they blamed teenage mothers for not gone away, now their absence has caused a new crisis to panic about
what percent of pregnancies were teenage? I dont feel like looking it up, but if i were a betting man, its in the single digit %. the fundamental reason is contraception. its that simple. when you delay first child, you have fewer years of high fertility. apply that on population scale and you get the current status quo.
Being mothers was previously all that women could offer. Now that women can work and have more rights than men they can do as they please and civilization is going to collapse because of it.
Fertility rates should be increased in every country in Europe, congratulations Orban for this measures . He should have focused on this point when in charge of EU and not visiting dictator's.
@@najex1it did, it is just that csok (the cheap loan for buying houses) just inflated housing prices, so now you're back to square one when you're planning to start a family. Income tax exemption for a few years is still fire tho.
@@gilgabro420 lol... How stupid a woman must be to allow the government, any government, to use her womb and put her in expenses and unpaid labour for 20 years because they give her a tax brake for a few years or less
STOP CALLING IT FERTILITY. It's not a fertility stat. it's a 'willingness to have/pay for kids' stat. For the longest time, i thought it was related to biological reasons.
To add to this, there is some interesting and insightful data to add to this in regards to reproduction rates, and that is the gypsy minority of Hungary. On paper, 3-4% of the population identifies as roma, altough in reality this number is somewhere around 11%. The reason roma people feel discouraged to identify as roma is beacuse they are afraid they face discrimination for it (I wonder why). Within Hungary, (and other Eastern European conutries as well) the roma communities often live in (racially) segregated surroundings. This means segregated communities (which is the fault of the government only in the sense that it does not try to deal with it, but doesn't enforce it), segregated education (explicitly roma schools and classes inside schools, yes very bad and criminal outright), being forced into underpaid labor or being pressured into working without a working contract (the employers dont pay the state after them, etc). The list goes on, and there's no incentive to make their lives better, there's a rapid impoversihing trend in the country instead. Anyway, the point I tried to make is that this 10-11% of the population is responsible for around 1/3 (33%) of all births in the country, meaning the (as a majority) poor discriminated minority is disproportionately representing reproduction (shocking). Between 2006-2050, they are set to double their proportion as a percentage of the population. Hungarian youth is extremely liberal and pessimistic about the state of the future, emigration is currently hitting record highs, etc. People do not have kids out of spite. What I meant to portray is that the situation is significantly more dire than portrayed even in the video. This is just to have a real glimpse into the reality of the hungarian society and it's highly praised conservative policies.
And the funny part is that these segregated poor families vote Orban massively at every election, despite they gain almost nothing from Orban’s ‘family friendly’ subsidies.
This is what happens when populist ambitions (mixed with demagoguery) meet reality. Like other authoritarians, Orban refuses to learn from other examples.
A dystopian regime is what you have in the UK where they put you in jail for making comments on the Internet and you have AI facial recognition systems on the streets. I think I would rather live in a country that pays for having children than o ne that takes money from pensioners to give sposor to illegal migration
A dystopian regime is what you have in the UK where they put you in jail for making comments on the Internet and you have AI facial recognition systems on the streets.
@@karo2090threaten to burn my street down, and you can go to jail. Don't matter if you were the boots on the ground or a recruiter behind a keyboard Play daft games, win daft prizes
@@dererik9070 Because they don't care about the everyday people, they just wanna make their childhood buddies richer and richer (who can afford to evade taxes using tax havens)
@@praveenkrishnamoorthy6528 Then what are you complaining about? You just countered your own claim of infinite growth. Either it's stagnant or growing, which is it?
@@Veritas.0 we have limited resources we would have enough money if the government managed the taxes properly and if they closed the tax loops on billionaires/corporations
Hungary's policy is actually somewhat impressive when contextualized. Every country in the world except Hungary and 2 others have had decreasing TFR over the past 10 years, so even a moderate increase is significant
Hm so a politician wants to borrow money to pay for future taxpayers that will also have to pay for the interest on the costs it took for them to be born in the first place.
@@JJ-te2pi yeah but to me it's funny, since I am historical aware, that we.r one of the.most mixed cocasian ppl in Europe. We have multiple asian nomadick ppl+Germans+Turkish+Russian+ who the fuck knows whatXD
@@wackpool1491 What you say happened slowly over thousands of years, but what is being discussed here is the importation of millions of people of very different cultures from Europe in just a few years.
How just be born [insert tribal identity] makes you better than others? Hungary has a broken education system, run by the Home Secretary, ex-police chief maffia boss [he runs the healthcare too] Having children is a long term commitment and huge responsibility. Just birthing is not enough, you have to raise them and that is very hard in Hungary. [payout and tax-breaks are just not enough without future education, social services and healthcare] (I was raised in Hungary)
@TLDR, what you still refuse to acknowledge is, that each year in Hungary even thou the number of woman able to be a mother is decreasing, the number of children born is the same. so since women in their 20s are like 50% compared to women in 40s in Hungary, so fertility of 1.5 rate done by 50% of the women is actually a good result. the real issue is that the benefits of those policies done in Hungary, would not be seen for at least another 10 years, when realistically, the people born in 2010s would start to have their own children.
@@ambessaseway5594 Since Hungary joined the EU, it received an average 4 billion euros annually from the EU (including development funds and agricultural subsidies). At the same time, Hungary contributed an average 1 billion euros annually to the EU budget. This makes an annual average surplus of 3 billion Euros. In 2023, Hungary had a GDP of 196 billion euros. 3 / 196 = 1.53%. So as I said, EU funds account for less than 2% of Hungary's GDP. Still a sizable amount, but this wouldn't bankrupt the country EU funds to Hungary were frozen for 1.5 years and they had no effect on the economy other than causing additional work and a big headache for the Minister of Finance Bringing up access to the free market is rather stupid, because it is not an EU fund
@@PrexXyx The European Commission on Wednesday unblocked €10.2 billion in frozen EU cohesion funds earmarked for Hungary, + around 20 billion euro is still frozen for 1 year
@@ambessaseway5594 That happened in November 2023 if I remember well. And that amount is not for 1 year but for the 7-year cycle (2021-2027) we are currently in. So even according to the numbers you quoted, Hungary is supposed to receive 4.3 billion euros annually
Here's a defacto solution, regulate the housing market. Instead of corporations making as much money as possible, regulate the price to cover the cost only. Done, housing prices drop by at least 30% if not 80%. Now the population can afford to have children.
No need to regulate, just build lots of social housing apartments prefab factory built and beautiful old facades. Then out in working people with children. Make then housing co-operatives, and they pay off the cost of the build with interests free loan. Housing crisis historically is cheap and easy to fix, with many examples of it being done.
If a ton of unused housing would solve the problem, China's ghost towns in 3rd tier cities should be resulting in a Chinese population boom. We want to believe that some issues have simple solutions, but that's rarely the reality.
It baffles me that politicians think people are too stupid to understand that children cost far more than any pathetic financial benefit they offer. If you want people to have more kids, make pre and post natal care free - and guarantee lifelong free childcare for all children born within the narrow window of the program. That’s real cost savings - and a dash of FOMO to incentivise immediate action.
this isn't an issue that simple minded politician can solve, not unless there's deep research done on it by the best universities and intellectuals that can figure out all the root sociological, economical and other reasons for it
Lol, it’s housing crisis. Everyone knows that. Politicians are acting like they are trying to solve the problem but on reality they are transferring public money to their investments… Financial help -> prices grow -> more private profits -> even less people can afford mortgages since prices went up.
Obviously it isn't Orban thinking of this stuff himself, like the media would like you to think. They always do this with the countries they don't like. They pick a man that they will pour all of the hate on and then keep trashing him and making him impossible capable and evil at the same time.
5:00 It is worth noting that the Hungarian Statistical Office also takes into account babies born abroad to Hungarian parents. Of these 160,000 newborns, at least a third live in the UK, Austria or Germany with parents who have emigrated due to the controversial political climate in the country.
This is wild. Why should there not be more spending on family than Defence, why not focus on families, it’s what makes functioning sustainable societies.
Lots of people defending Orban here. But the way he’s doing it is going to backfire. The way this is set up, the more the program succeeds the greater the economic burden on the state, the greater the implosion is going to be when all this support gets cutoff when it gets too expensive. Subsidies are great, but they need to facilitate economic growth to pay back the investment. If your policies bankrupt the state before it sees results then you’re actually just creating a financial catastrophe
There is absolutely 0 problem with population decreasing. We produce more than enough resources to maintain the aging population. In addition, there is nothing inherently wrong with population decreasing. It is only a problem with capitalism, because it means line not go up, which hurts profits and infinite growth.
You need people to pay for and upkeep the whole system, if a population is not reproducing itself you need people from outside. And we have seen how all of those "doctors and engineers" help...
@crabLT You don't. Housing is not an issue because we already have houses for them, and we produce so much food it's genuinely insane. You'd just need a bit more social workers which you can easily incentivize. You don't need immigration even, you don't need anything, it is simply not an inherent issue.
@snozzy-w2g That has absolutely nothing to do with the resources you need. 1. Food is a resource we can make plenty of and already make plenty off 2. Housing would become less of an issue with declining population 3. Social workers for the elderly would be needed but that can easily be incentivized
I was building a house in a time when house support started. All prices just went higher for value of maximum loan. If you have 3 kids you were at same. For rest of us houses got more expensive. Money went to government friendly companies who profited from this.
"How dare a leader care about the health and development of his people?" Orban does have a lot of problems, but him attempting to fix the demographic crisis is very good. Every country should focus on having a healthily growing population. Orban spending ressources on that doesn't make him "obsessed" but rather more foreward thinking that most other European leaders who either ignore the issue or rely on immigration.
There´s a problem with your way of thinking. Orban is not forward thinking, Orban is just wanting to prevent his own people from having babies from non Hungarians.. Without immigration, your economy would simply collapse or may not function with other competitive countries. You would literally shooting yourself in the foot by not encouraging labor immigration from other European countries and expect to rely on your own population does not guarantee or even ensure high birth rates and a good functioning economy. Better yet if you still think this way then leave the EU altogether and stop relying on EU funds, just rely on your own domestic resources and lets see how you will hold out. You people are way to delusional.
These policies are terrible. He would have had better success has he made housing more affordable in general but he didn't because of ideological reasons. Instead he's fueling inflation with these tax cuts that benefit the middle class which is not having babies anyway, while making life for poor people (by extension also young people) more difficult. Too much ideology with Orban and no practical achievements as usual.
Did you watch the video till the end? Orban might spotted his concerns about a big problem, but he is using awful and useless tools to fix it! Giving money to rich families won’t help if the majority of women/families don’t feel perspective in their life. If they feel their future unsafe and unpredictable with having a collapsing health care and educational system!
Accepting a slower economic growth rate to maximize time spent at home by legally limiting the working hours per week per person with intolerance towards a violation of said law is a step
In another video, you showed the correlation between low birth rate and high housing costs. A law could he helpful: House contractors are allowed to build only apartments with more then 120 m2 and 4 bedrooms. In this way, the low entry apartments (just 1.room) would become scarce, lowering the price of larger apartments
European women are looking at South Korean births where women decided to let it burn and loads of us are choosing the same path, I know I did! My ex employer asked me why I decided to never have children... The audacity! I turned to him and asked him if his rich children need a new generation of poor children to exploit... His face! 😳 And to shut this "conversation" down forever I told him that by choosing to not give birth to more children I took away from him not only a future generation of workers but also the future generation of consumer! Let this 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit." Selfishness because of perceived slights is the biggest problem of the current world.
@@marilenaganea6578 That's fine, but then why are you replying to this? You've already decided your life is going to be inconsequential in the long run. Why should your opinion matter?
Honestly, a lot of us just don't want to have children for this regime. At the same time, I don't think immigration is any kind of solution at all. It's just supposed to keep the economy running at the expense of social stability, but it is failing at that too, with all those foreign immigrants ending up costing more.
i live not too far from hungary and visit at least once a year (love the nice people, good food and beautiful landscape). but while i complain that in my own country any new project is progressing only at snails pace, it's sad to see that hungary is stagnating at best. 25 years ago you could see hungary modernising with every visit, now it's rather the opposite. even the building at the border that used to sell the hungarian matrica is just standing there empty with broken windows and crumbling while the matrica is now sold in a shabby kiosk that looks as if the wind could blow it away at any time. no wonder no one is having children when the future looks worse than today.
Yes, you'd have to restructure the system so that a career is very difficult without getting children. I am generally against quotas, but if you passed one saying that 80% of a companies CEOs (and every other kind of high career job) must have children, that would probably work.
@@rixorobert You can't change it unless you want to block higher education for women which is a non starter. After a long education women will first want to focus on having a career and by their late thirties when they realize nothing they accomplished means all that much with nobody to do it for it's often too late.
@@rixorobert I suspect the main factor is that culture rejects nature's role for women: to produce a substantial amount of children at a young age. Frankly, I can't blame women for rejecting the fate nature has designed them for and I doubt one could pay them to change their mind as Orban seems to think. So I guess populations will shrink, which isn't a bad thing for an overpopulated planet.
Same, but I wish the actual policies were more effective. The biggest chunk of "family subsidies" was 100% absorbed by the construction companies by increasing prices.
@@Elkator955 Because the objective is to give parents more money to start families, while in practice people that already have kids got more money and chose not to have more kids while also inflating the economy and making young people even poorer.
At the end of the day, having a kid is a 20 year long obligation to the child and a link to the other person. Most people these days dont know where they are going to be in 5
So easy to fix, if he Orban was willing to make housing cheaper, but he wasnt. Increasing supply of Electrictity, childcare, food and good education too.
Pension spending is actually the Elephant in the room, it's the single biggest expense in most developed nations, by a margin, and it will be worse in future.
The problem is the current end phase of said mixed race peoples doing _very_ diverse things in countries like Sweden, the U.K., France and Germany to not so mixed race peoples with certain sharp objects, to name an example.
@@HighFlyingOwlOfMinerva it's funny isn't It that people like you can't even conceive of scientists, teachers, etc Who are mixed Race or ethnic minority, when Plenty such people exist. You just have one thought in your head "non-white"= bad and no amount of evidence Will get through. I'm Also anticipating the normal far-right whinge that anyone Who disagrees with you doesn't know anything about reality, despite the fact that people Who do live in London and Paris hate the far right.
The real solution would be massively increasing the taxes on contraception, making it highly unavailable. But nobody will ever do that, as it's a highly unpopular solution. Once contraception becomes more available in the middle east and africa, their birthrates will also massively decline, but, just as here, nobody will ever speak about the availability of contraception as the main culprit. It's a horrible issue as, after all, contraception leads to lower spread of STD's and gives more freedom to women. But it also MASSIVELY reduces fertility rates. And immigration is a short term solution, because in Islamic culture, it's perfectly normal and even glorified to marry one's cousin - and they continue to do that even when they migrate. Literally ALL muslim countries have insanely high consanguine marriage ratios, which will inevitably lead to horrible side effects, including infertility, as is now happening in Pakistan, where this ratio is over 70%. It's a brutally complex problem for which, I think, an international solution will be needed.
As I explained to other "force the people to have kids" comments, the solution is to make people WANT to have kids not the force them. Essentially you are encouraging generations of unwanted kids that felt like a burden until they leave their parents. Someone that uses contraception or even abortion clearly hates the idea of having children (at least at this point in their lifes), so if they are forced into it then they'll spend the minimum possible on the kid until he leaves, it's that simple (unless you believe people will magically love their kid once they are out). In the past, having a kid was an advantage because you could make him work the land or take care of the animals, giving you an easier life. Nowadays, a kid will only give you a bankrupcy because you gotta pay his studies, something that he might not even appreciate in the future.
the fact is, if the government pour "free" money in the market, this will (it did already) increases prices and inflation. The contractors, manufacturers and sellers are aware about it and they want to grab this money, they want have more profit. They also want to leverage their standard of living. The families who got this money will spend it with less care as it was "free". So, the value of this home building/buying allowance decreased with ~30% and this situation made worst for all those who are not eligible to get this money or want to spend on something else because prices were increased.
But hey, we Hungarians are already a super ‘mixed race’!!! What the hell was he talking about last summer. That was just a clickbait phrase to be picked up by the national media to create buzz around him again.
@@gdarabos nobody says that Hungarians are some lost tribe from the first men , but they’ve settled in that region and through hundreds of years created a clear ethnic group of there own. So let’s not pretend that Hungary is some “melting pot” where anyone can become Hungarian just by getting a bit of paper. Hungary like most nations measure citizenship by blood. It’s why they still look out for there diaspora overseas.
Why do they only ever try money? Never time off work, or time off looking after children. One of the biggest things with having kids isn't just money, it's lack of free time.
This is what’s gonna happen to Hungary 18 to 22 years later - children from this baby boom will finish their education at roughly the same time. Then they’ll realise that there are way too many peers to compete against in the domestic job market. So they leave for other immigrant-friendly nations to seek jobs. Setting aside the irony that an anti-immigrant policy is turning their own citizens into immigrants, this policy doesn’t solve anything in the long run. You still lose population, not to unwillingness to have kids, but to negative immigration.
But wouldn't Hungary have that problem regardless of what it's politics are? Are there any politics that the poorer European nations can adopt that would keep their young people from immigrating to richer European nations?
If the progress of Europe looks like this the only solution will be extremely dystopian, forceful births. I would not be surprised if Hungary/belarus/russia force their women to have children. We in the EU still have a chance to save our families
"Why is [insert politician here] concerned about the demographic crisis?"
...Because they don't want the country's pension/tax systems to collapse by 2075. Next question.
Why this issue isn't the top issue for every European government is beyond me. Importing people from Africa with the faint hope that they work slave wages for megacorporations instead of just abusing wellfare is more simple I guess....
This effectively never works
@@metalsnake869because it has been proven it doesn't work.
It fails in Hungary, it fails in Russia, it fails in China.
@@metalsnake869 Importing mostly male africans also just increases the pension costs in long run. Males wont make more babies and the few women that come, will have same fertility as natives
@@metalsnake869 thing is, with the current age demographics just increasing birthrates now is too late, it'll take over two decades until a decision to have a baby turn into a fully productive member of society
As a hungarian, I think the emigration of young hungarians as part of the problem is missing from this video. It has many causes, but one of them Orban's illiberal policies, which make the country less attractive to the more left leaning youth. So the most educated, young and wealthy populus is leaving the country, which is the biggest sin of Orban's regime in the historic scale. Many hungarian children are born abroad, which doesnt help the hungarian fertility rate, and they most propably will never be hungarians in the future.
Good point. I can't think of any country that is ruled and not governed (read dictatorship) that people want to move to. Opportunities are not there for everyone, only those of the approved 'in group'.
And even if you're the approved group for now, there's no way of knowing whether you'll fall out of favour in the future for one reason or another. The whole thing creates an atmosphere of uncertainty, which is actually the biggest thing causing birthrates to decrease imo
Yep. I'm in neighbourhood. Many young Hungarians study and work here, and not only left leaning, also center and even some right. Majority of those people fleeing are young women! Their descriptions of Orbans regime are less than complimentary.
its time europe just like australia, siberia, america, hawaii, new zealand when native replaced by others people, it karma, it time for Eurobistan when muslim stick to family traditional value, marry young, have many children and stick together. that who species survive, tht why no sex before marriage safe muslim and ger marriage, take responsibility, europe lost this. not just church's empty even christian easy to be mock and insult, this how others group will replace you,
People are not emigrating for political reasons, they are emigrating for financial reasons.
The family allowance program was a total flop, it contributed greatly to the housing crisis in Hungary. They should have gone with social housing programs and government owned construction initiatives (but you see, that would have lowered house prices, and we can't have that).
None of this would change anything. All of these policies cost money and have little affect.
@jonathan2847
Well if you're going by historical facts of housing crisises being solved, did you know that's not actually true?
And housing is EASY AND CHEAP to solve, if it is actually wanted, so many historical examples, Vienna being my favourite. But there may historical examples.
The rent of working people pays the cost of the housing, and prefab apartments mean less labour. And no, you are not forced to live in them, buy whatever you want if you can afford it.
And how on earth can you increase fertility without solving housing?
Impossible, right? Yes it is.
Otherwise just mass migration as band aid solution.
@@jonathan2847 singapore would beg to differ.
Europeans are just not interested in producing kids high costs of living is just an excuse
Consider the fact Hungary has a large roma population and suddenly the reliance on tax breaks instead of benefits makes a lot of sense
As a Hungarian woman myself who does want to have children in the future I can tell you that these measures are not going to be effective until the public hospitals and healthcare system is on the way of collapsing (no money for essential things like soap and disinfectants, imagine giving birth in such place...), also the state of the schooling system (from what I heard there is not enough space in kindergartens, 1 kindergarten teacher for 30+ children). The level of education is also going down. So to provide a good life to your children, you would probably need to pay for private healthcare and private schools. And then I didn't even mention the overall "everyone hates everyone" atmosphere or that my children would be mixed so they would get significant hate in the country. This is why I am an expat and my Hungarian children will probably be born outside of the country.
That’s sad to hear. I’m sorry, hopefully things improve for everyone soon😢
And you are one of many that act this way. The problem is the lack of freedom and paternalism and etatism of the Hungarian state and its anti democratic leadership who rules instead of governs.
Why not fix the problems at home rather than running away?
Very interesting input from a Hungarian citizen!
@@Hyper584kdo you want this woman to fix the government??? are you serious? what is she gonna do? it’s the politicians that should fix everything (but they don’t and never will) so… people leave
You left out emigration and that is the most important aspect. Hungarian women often have their children outside of Hungary, because these incentives, are nothing compared to the standards of living that a non autocracy can provide.
Do more hungarians emigrate than other eastern europeans? I would imagine that it's almost impossible to keep people in a poorer society when they can easily move to a richer society and make more money. Just as an example, I've read that a third of Italians below 40 years of age want to move to another country.
women of each EU nation have more children abroad than domestically - doesn't matter which nationality moved where, it will always be higher than domestic.
1 of 6 Hungarian children born abroad...
@@Zoetherat but all countries are suffering. you cant escape these trends since they're global.
@@123_1 in sh1t holes like france, slovakia, UK, etc? These are pan global problems
Spending double your defense budget on children is nothing to be ashamed of.
Not understanding the underlying trends though is something different.
Hungary is simply not a pro future society people would want to birth children into.
It is crazy to basically buy new kids bc you are so incredible racist.
Orbán is responsible for stealing Hungarians wealth and future. Why wound anyone want to feed his family with more children?
I think too, that encouraging to start families is a very good investment is definitely no shame by itself. I really would like to see more of these in western european countries. Germany is doomed even with a lot of immigration
@@Exodius3 Most "demographic" problems are blown out of proportion.
Germanys productivity always heavily outpaced its demographic trends.
To put it bluntly, if your income grows faster than your costs, then rising costs aren't much of a problem.
But its for sure a challenge for modern capitalism to imagine a successful economy without eternal growth into every direction.
@@AliothAncalagon Citing Germany is a terrible example. It is in crisis precisely because of changes in its demographics.
He talks so much about "making Europe great again" but can't even make Hungary average
its not that easy, they do have corruption but the country got better. Maybe someone else would ve done better but the economy is better than it used to be
You have to admit though, MEGA is a pretty great acronym
Average will be like in Heaven when you compare it to Western Europe in about 50 years when the demographics look more grim
@@krb5zStill one of the most corrupt and poor countries of the EU tho.
@@krb5z Orban's leading the corruption tho💀 Always has been.
Its easy, people in Hungary finish University and move to Austria, Czechia or Poland, its been like this since Orban became nationalist for old people
Socialist, really, as in it suits his end goals not the country, the nation, the people,
It was like that since always, Orban precedesors also mismanaged country and were quite corrupted - that's why people didn't cared initially as much about Orban doing same as it was normal and kinda expected.
I just feel it's worth noting what the proper situation was there and why Orban could take such firm grip on the country, someone needed to prepare it for situation like that beforehand...
Emmigration was and still is a big problem for a lot of ex-communist states but Hungary's emigration rate of 7.3% is below the EU average and significantly lower than sounding countries (Slovakia 7.7; Romania 20.5; Croatia 25.4; Poland 12.6; Czechia 9.7)
@@rixorobertthat probably isnt because the hungarian youth doesnt want to move abroad, rather because we arent as skilled and educated as a society and they cant get worthy jobs.
@@matekiss3545 I don't think so, as a Romanian I can admit that on average Hungarians are just as if not more educated than Romanians and Bulgarians
I love how Japan has been a study on these "benefits" for a while now, but even though it has shown that these benefits never work, they just go and say "ah, they didn't do it right, we will make it right, it will work, you will see!", just to fail again, rinse and repeat.
To be fair Japan has additional problems.
A highly patriachal society that is set in the boomer ways, work hours that are far too high with nonsense incentives, aka be a good lad and stay in the office for 10 hours.
All that stress and work time alone reduces the time to make babies but also fertility. Stress is a fertility killer for men and women
ironically the same as communists , seems like some people just think they're smarter than others and believe "trust me guys , *I* will do it better"
@@nelyyisoppy6509
Communists significantly improved the living standards of people in Russia and turned a country from backwards to 2nd post powerful country in the existence of humanity I'd say there's a better record of them working than throwing money at people to have kids
@@sciencefliestothemoon2305
Yes that is the reason for the low fertility rate but that shouldn't change an increase in fertility rates if money as an incentive would actually help
@@sciencefliestothemoon2305 I feel like the stress is a worldwide thing. Our future is going to get worse and worse with every decade ebcause of climate change, who would want to make a child in these conditions?
my hometown in South Germany has a high birthrate, because living there is family friendly and provides a positive future. only housing crisis is limiting it...
I'm a hungarian who earns enough to have have children, and is currently married. We see no point getting a child here, because we have no trust in the government's institutions. Hospitals suck, and education is in the dumps. Getting a check for a few thousand euros with no strings attached does NOT help me, getting good quality education and healthcare for my child does, else I end up paying for private waaaay more than what little they helped.
Also the "160k of new children" is a completely fudged number. It takes the lowest ever birth rate (i think early 2010s), extends it till now, and assumes that as a baseline births we would have had, had the policies not been enacted. Thus, it attributes any "extra" as the result of policies. This is just headline hunting math, sure some kids were born because of the extra money, but large parts of the 160k would have been born even without the benefits as we had one of the best economic growth cycles in the 2010s. Old people love these policies, but they are not the people who have to "make" the children.
Also the video mentions that tax breaks are only effective for people that earn above a certain salary threshold. This is factually false. In Hungary we do NOT have progressive income tax brackets. Even minimum wage earners need to pay 15% income tax, and 18.5% social security tax. By getting 4 children you no longer pay the 15% income tax, but you still pay the 18.5% social security tax.
He was right, he meant tax breaks are more effective for high income families as they pay significant amount of taxes... This is right. Low income family gets the same proportion but that is not significant amount...
@@IRGodful yes, the policy alone isn't the main driver of births. Financial development plays a huge factor too. Early 2010 birth numbers caved following the 2008 financial crisis, where a lot of people lost their homes in 2009/10/11 due to foreign currency (Swiss frank mostly) denominated mortgages defaulting. This is the baseline you're comparing to, where housing for many Hungarians was a huge uncertainty.
Since that the economy stabilized towards the end of 2010s and more people felt secure in their jobs, income increased, willingness to have kids did too. Yes, the policies helped but they are a drop in a bucket.
By saying all the extra births are only contributed to the pro-birth policies, it also assumes that nothing else improved. No real wage growth, no economic recovery, no job stability, etc...
Go back to 95, no policies exist that reward having kids, and yet there's a higher birthrate.
its probably because you saw a psa on tv or a newspaper article saying that the world is overpopulated back in the early 2000s or earlier
europoors struggle to understand this, unfortunately including orban, but healthcare and education will get better when they're not government monopolies
@@leomagnvs4525 no government monopoly, ok, but then please dont take my taxes either...
Housing subsidies and the "baby loan" done nothing since those who sold houses raised real estate prices building in the extra cash into the base prices of said real estates...so this resulted in families going back to square one, and those couples who do not have children but would like to buy a home, now have to pay 30.000 EUR more, bcs of the Baby Loans handed out to families with kids.
Orbán is struggling, but nothing ia happening...
State must get involved directly in the housing business and start building cheaper houses
@@rixorobert The Treasury is empty. We have a 75% national debt, we are full of Chinese loans with interest rates going truth the roof and JUST the INTEREST for state bonds and the loans Orbán took to keep this show running is about 2500 BILLION HUF annually, more than the government is spending on Healthcare and Education combined..., + the EU fining us 1 million EUR PER DAY due to non compliance which ia accumulating since Orbán doesn't give a sh1t paying it nor to comply with EU rules.
The government doesn't have money to build houses for the people, the government doesn't do any projects were it cannot steal a considerable amount of the money. Hungary is lost...
@@rixorobert State doesn't get involved in doing anything if there is no chance to steal money.
+ the Treasury is empty...our national debt is 75%...its just a matter of time before we go bankrupt.
Just another reason buying a home in Hungary is a bad investment, especially when you could go literally anywhere in Schengen.
@@DeeSnow97 good luck with that using the shit-tier Forint.
It's rather obvious why people aren't having children. They can't afford to and don't want to as they have lost hope for the future.
Why do poorer countries have higher fertility rates ?
@@blueboy3990 Lack of access to birth control.
What do you think the tax breaks are for? (Kinda agree with the future part tho)
@@blueboy3990 it's less likely that they will live to adulthood and so it's compensated by having more children. If the children who died before 18 were excluded from those calculations the birthrate would be lower
@@blueboy3990why should I follow their 3rd world example?
Hungarians do not want to become peoples of mixed race"? The Hungarians have been a people of mixed race since the Magyars arrived in Europe from Asia a thousand years ago. Even their language today has its roots on the far side of the Urals.
History is definitely not Orbans strength. :D
Even after settling down majority of Hungarian rulers relocated different nationalities to the kingdom, practically making hungarian THE most mixed race of Europe.
But somehow the far right people ignore these history lessons.
is it about becoming mixed race or is it about gang rape and terrorist attacks? its not like there isn t a thousand problems coming with mass immigration from the middle east and africa
Even weirder is that the people who ruled the Panonian basin before them were the Avars who's elites are widely believed to be of Mongolic origin with IIRC mixed greek and slavic peoples in their population.
Nobody forces Hungarian people to marry/children with someone they don't want
@@pedrix3790and what’s tainted?
Call me crazy, call me a pacifist, call me an ideologist, but I really think it is a good thing to spend more money for family than for defence
Well, I'm glad someone is performing the experiment in order to find out that it doesn't work. I'm also glad that my own country isn't so that I don't have to pay for it.
The rich families gets the most advantages of the benefits it makes no sense!
The Russians are still attacking Ukraine we cant allow to drop defence budget!
That would be true if people would want to raise kids in said country. But the state of hospitas and schools drive people away.
@@sogerc1😢uhum …. Well if your parents would have had the same attitude…
I mean yes of course but throwing tax credits and random 30k euro loans out instead of actually addressing the real problems doesn't fix anything. People want better education, healthcare, and dont see a future in Hungary. Even if these things cause a slight increase in birth rate it's not the actual problems. These comments are full of people talking about their own experiences living in Hungary and how bad it is, clearly it's not just a money issue or social issue. It has everything to do with the living standards and things I mentioned before
*70% inflation in the past 10 years*
Conservatives: "Why aren't young people having kids?!"
more like in the last 4 years
Would be 200% under the liberal government
They get rinsed if they get divorced
Maybe if there was more internal organic growth you would have a healthier population. Importing adults to fill a void puts enormous strain on housing.
it's not financial, that's the whole point of the video
Tax break for mothers doesn't work because mothers with 4+ children usually don't have a job as they need to dedicate 100% of their time to a family. Instead you need to just pay them or have tax exempts to households.
Oh... you really thought they made the exempt of income tax for "yous"?! :D
Nope... Its for their friends and family who have their own "family business" (mostly outbought small businesses thanks to their price cap and ethical smoke and mirrors)
They put their already welahty wifes as business operators to shovel more money to their family bank account. :D
As a Hungarian, first of all, I'm very glad that TLDR finally made a video about Hungary, which focuses on the reality and shows the real economic and social problems of the country. I'm also glad, that this video was not used to demonize Hungary or falsely calling us pro-Russians, Orban-lovers and nationalists, but to show some of the real life problems, which Orban make in Hungary with his policies.
About the topic, Orban is a huge fan of families with three or more children. In 2015, the government created the Family Home Creation Allowance policy (in Hungarian: CSOK), with which Hungarian families - based on how many children they have - could get a certain amount of money. This policy was ongoing until 2023, but still available in villages as of 2024. A couple with one child could get €1.500, while with two children, a couple could be granted with an amount of between €3.300 and €6.600, based on what kind of home you wanted to get.
But if you had three or more children, you could have as much as €25.000 for obtaining a home. If we make calculations with the number of children and the amount of support the government gives to the couples, these amounts are absolutely unequal. This is a clear sign, that the Hungarian government proudly supports you with their family policies, if you have at least 3 children. If you have only 1 child or 2 children, you will gain almost nothing. For my father, I'm his 4th son, but for my mother, I'm her only child - and my 3 half-brothers are already in the 30s or 40s. My mother gets barely enough support from the government (mainly just increased family allowance). She has a low-paying job, she works at least 7-8 hours in a special school, but she only earns €600, which is the net minimal wage in the county, where we live.
The family policy of Orban and the Hungarian government seems to be fascinating to see as an outsider, but in reality, this system is a lot more hierarchical and unstable than you might even think. Here, you only matter to the government, if you have at least 3 children, otherwise you will get rarely or no support at all.
Despite Orban encouraging Hungarian women to give birth to more children, this will still not solve the countless economic problems in Hungary as well as the demographic crisis. How the government handled the inflation and the rising prices in the last 1-2 years is critical and there were numerous scandals around them. No wonder, why did they lose more than 1 million supporters in the last two years. And if the economic problems won't solve in the next few years, Hungary will continue to suffer from the demographics crisis, as more young people will rather settle in Western Europe for higher living standards and better opportunities, than start to build a career here in Hungary.
Thank you very much TLDR for finally making a very detailed and realistic video about the current real economic and social problems of Hungary!
Does the Romany minority get these benefits for having lots of babies? Or have they all travelled West
@@nikobellic570 As far as I know they are too qualified for these. Well to do (read: middle class) individuals certainly take advantage of them. As for the rest... I'm not so sure.
To address the second question: The majority of them don't have the opportunity to leave the country, given that they don't speak neither English, German or other languages. (There are other reasons surely, but this was the fisrt that came to mind.)
Thank you so much for your extensive comment, very insightful!
This isn't true. The overwhelming majority of Hungarians love and idolize Orbán. It's similar to Putin and the Russians, they love a strong leader that fuels their nationalistic pride and hatred towards Europe. Just the fact that 80% of Hungarians consider themselves to be Asian rather than European is telling !
My plumber in the UK has been married to a Hungarian woman for about 15 years. They have two children and want two more. Later this year they are moving to Hungary because they think it would be advantageous to do so precisely because of these policies. He is already in the building trade and they are planning a big house based on selling up their UK home and taking advantage of Hungarian state loans and subsidies.
@@markaxworthy2508 so that exception should convince the population? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@marilenaganea6578 Either the whole social system collapses if the population does not reproduce itself or be flooded with migrants and cease to exist as people. So yeah, this example would be the norm if every country in the EU supported their own people. Too bad that they don't.
This race has serious problems having children. Happening in America,Russia and all over Europe. The women are baron
@@marilenaganea6578 Dude, everybody who is financially viable in the UK and wants families are fleeing the place due to awful politics.
Basically, you have all of your best-trained doctors and construction workers are just going to Australia to start a family, and you're left with the unskilled labor who drains the welfare state.
The current English way is not working.
That sounds borderline non-smart.
30k is nothing, and as a plumber in the UK that shouldnt even be a years income.
Any true politican should. Most pay little to no attention to the crisis and only make the matter worse by choosing to import workers or export work instead of providing better financial and housing stability to allow people to have children
Edit : I love how you just changed the title after comment backlash to be "how his policy is bankrupting Hungary" from "Why does he care about birthrates"
A true politician doesn't exist
"Why do you care so much?"
"Why do you not?
Why should we spend more to accomodate our own people when we can just import some "Asian" with less labor cost, insane work efficiency and come attached with 2 children who will grow up and be a slave to us 😂😂
Did you watch the video?
Housing is horrible in Hungary. Chinese and filipino workers are flooding factories. Dont open your mouth when you just have rubbish that comes out of it
Hungary: Scandinavian taxes, Balkanian government services
Orban single handedly caused at least a million Hungarians to leave the country, poverty to skyrocket, birthrates to plummet, and life in the county to be more uncertain than ever. His tax cuts, only work for the richest, and wouldn't have more kids because of that. But plummeting birthrates isn't the problem there. Not even the dictator alone. The whole society itself is the problem. Decent societies can eventually get rid of a tyrant and build a better future, but if the whole society is mentally, emotionally completely broken, beyond saving, beyond repair, then removing one tyrant wouldn't help. I'm glad that Hungary with its society isn't a great power with large population and army and nukes and stuff, but merely an isolated little mini-Russia.
Bro don't know anything about Hungary
are you from Hungary ?
Orbán's key success was, which produced a huge share of his voting base, reducing poverty significantly in the countryside of Hungary. According to Eurostat, in 2010 32% of Hungarians were at risk of poverty. In 2023, the same number was 19%, below EU-average. This is the 3rd biggest decrease in the period.
@Tovalokodonc Im Hungarian, and to say that we're letting dictators to run our country is just stupidity. You know we had many revolution in history because we become tired of the tyrants who runned our country.
In 1514 Dózsa Győrgy, 1604 Bocskai, 1678 Thököly, 1703 Rákóczi, 1848-49 revolution, 1918-19 autnumn, 1956 revolution and many other minor conflicts.
@@filtheater716 LOL. Young Hungarians are leaving on mass chum. Orban is a nazi.
Has any country acutally fixed fertiliy problems with cash handouts?
no but they do help a bit
no, the most was romania during communism when it only grew a little, we had abortion bans, huge subsidies for families and still not much
Nope,
Israel. More precisely, they arrested further declines in fertility rates.
@@StefanTaf that's true.....if you only single out the birth rate statistic, but if you look at the bigger picture that policy opened up a can of worms and led to WAY bigger problems in the long run
I will fix Hungary's demographic crisis
We thank you for your service
Let us know when you'll grow a womb and you'll put it out for rental for the benefit of orban
Andrew tate solution
Are you white? How much is your IQ?
😵💫
Same happens here in Bulgaria. Us, Bulgarians, think that these "benefits" are not helping at all, but imigrants and gypsies are gladly taking em by having like 6-9 children each and letting them live in poverty!
So true bro there's so many immigrants coming to Bulgaria and taking advantage of the enormous Bulgarian welfare state 😂🤦
gypsies dont get anything here, benefits were cut to them as it was linked to schooling and work and they dont like it, so we do it much better here than as you do in Bulgaria
Two economists are walking in a forest when they come across a pile of shit.
The first economist says to the other “I’ll pay you $100 to eat that pile of shit.” The second economist takes the $100 and eats the pile of shit.
They continue walking until they come across a second pile of shit. The second economist turns to the first and says “I’ll pay you $100 to eat that pile of shit.” The first economist takes the $100 and eats a pile of shit.
Walking a little more, the first economist looks at the second and says, "You know, I gave you $100 to eat shit, then you gave me back the same $100 to eat shit. I can't help but feel like we both just ate shit for nothing."
"That's not true", responded the second economist. "We increased the GDP by $200!"
Yep, the GDP mania is pretty ridiculous. There should be other standards with which to measure wealth and wellbeing.
Because demographic problems are pretty concerning for a country/economy? 😅🤔
Young adults emigrating is a bigger problem for hungry atm
@@dererik9070Hungary sabotaging the easiest solution it has to its demographic problem is the most hungarian thing ever
@@Sir_Bucket And what is that? Replace all the native Hungarians with a wide variety of immigrants that don't hold Hungarian Morales, values or standards? Ones under a false flag of protection and endorsement by a corrupt and European destroying EU?
@@Sir_Bucket still not gonna be a fix as long as the fertility rate is below 2.1
@@rixorobert yes but that's a much larger issue. The entire world's demographic growth is slowing down, even in Africa where it is still growing but at a much slower speed than planned.
Migration is a very good short term solution as it delays the problem for another generation or two.
Uganda's population in 1950: 4 million
Uganda's population in 2024: 47 million
🤐🤐🤐
Hungary's populaton 1953: 9.6 million
Hungary's populaton 1980: 10.7 million
Hungary's populaton 2024: 9.6 million
seriously need to do something about african population. They are growing literally on subsistence farms and foreign aid, by the time climate change hit their population will blow up and hundreds of uneducated men will be left jobless and in an inlivable state, with pre packaged radical religious ideas and weapons.
future is bleak with European and East Asians slowly dying out.
Uganda is quite big 4 million wasn't enough but really you can see money is not the issue
@@belstar1128 The issue is the stupidity of a culture that teaches people that they should have 5-10 children even if they live below the poverty line (and they are less socially worthy if they don't do so)
@@phoque121That “stupid” culture is going to survive, and our “smart” cultures are going to die out.
TLDR: His policies are extremely expensive and barely effective.
YT: All of europe should be doing this.
🤦🤦♂🤦♀
Cut the welfare to elderly, expecially those over 75 to fund natalist policies
They saw the video, they didn’t like the conclusion, so they just decided to ignore it
Spending money on children isn't bad even if it doesn't raise the number.
I'd rather see my tax money go to the next generation than see it go to boomers who destroyed Europe
@@TheGoukarumaThis isn't an issue that you can just throw money at in most EU countries because the issue is down to lifestyles available in society and not exactly money.
People working 40+ hours a week with 25 days of holiday don't want kids because they can't spend time with them. Why do they think this? Because they grew up in similar conditions.
Things like 4 day work weeks, longer maternity and paternity leave without risking your job, working from home are things that should be done. Wasting money and getting no results instead of realising the issue is lifestyle just shows that they only see families as a means to an end.
Not the tax cuts are the main problem in Hungary. Orbans regime is the main problem in Hungary.
But if it wasn't for Orban, who would embezzle all those EU subsidies?
@@OneEyeShadowthe average Hungarian doesn't benefit much from these subsidies. Urban uses them for himself and his friends
so stop electing him then.
Orban is a fantastic leader. I wish we had his clone to lead France.
Offer to cut my taxes in half, lower life expenses to Hungarian levels, let me keep my western EU income, and i still would not move to Hungary.
I guess treating humans like a birthing-machine farm business didn't work out that well.
hahahah yes
Wut?
At some point the birthing machines might want a pension, exept the birthing Machines want to Off themselfes at 70
@@JürgenNiemann-k2h This is why capital investment was invented. You invest in assets and live off the returns.
How is giving people money for voluntarily doing something treating them like a "birthing-machine"? Maybe he just cares about the future of civilization, that's why we need children.
"Why is Orban obsessed with fixing Hungary's demographic crisis?" Bro, look at how our population is declining 🔥🔥
@@vidisg14 then he should teach the boys to become good and supportive partners, 0 tolerance for abuse against women, stop asking women for 20 years of free labour all by themselves
The two are linked, and they fuck up each other if one's system goes south
@@justjaguar2314 European women are looking at South Korean births where women decided to let it burn and loads of us are choosing the same path, I know I did!
My ex employer asked me why I decided to never have children... The audacity! I turned to him and asked him if his rich children need a new generation of poor children to exploit... His face! 😳 And to shut this "conversation" down forever I told him that by choosing to not give birth to more children I took away from him not only a future generation of workers but also the future generation of consumer! Let this 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@marilenaganea6578 So you are trying to exit the capitalist system, which keeps people down?
@@marilenaganea6578 yup, that's why I don't plan on having children either. Enough people are having them anyways. In my view, the whole population can deal with (and maybe even benefit from) a bit of a decline. Of course we don't have to have it plummet to near extinction, but a reduction from like 2 generations of low birth rates and then keeping those numbers could end up well. People just need to not see "crisis" and "epidemic" and other scary words, they need to understand it themselves.
Helping just parents doesn't work, because the parents see people around in a bad place and don't want to bring a child into the world in such circumstances.
Fertility rates crash when countries get richer
@@blueboy3990 I responded to you in another comment, won't copy paste
By your logic why are the most impoverished countries having the most children?
@@rixorobert Because children are free labour.
@@rixorobertpractically no form of sex education or contraception
People need super cheap housing. When do they gonna understand?!
Most politicians own property and a lot of it, so I don't expect them to destroy their investments any time soon. Unfortunately.
@@PhthaloJohnson Makes sense.
Yeah, well take a credit instead of paying morgage. The younger you are the cheaper the mortgage is. Hungary is still on the lower end in property prices, we still have approx 30%+ expectations for the prices to go up and reach ie Bratislava or Belgrade levels. If you have 50.000 € saved you good to go for the base investment. Every month rent is gift money to someone else. Cheap housing is the most expensive option for a youngster, that know one would ever tell. Only investments will help you grow - be it in real estate, business or education, best is all! Once you understand the flow of cash you are fine.
These fertility crises are becoming ever more frequent -Japan, South Korea, Hungary, the U.S…. It’s almost as if having children has become unaffordable… nah that can’t be it.
Almost there are consequences to years of late term, profits over people capitalism.
@@custos3249 Then why Africa has such a high birth rate? It has to do with culture more than anything, leftists ideologies becoming popular marked a total collapse of the western future with the rise of individualism, who could have thought state capitalism could be so toxic for the human morale lol
@@custos3249 not really. The fertility rate in Cuba fell off a cliff when the revolution happened and has been hovering around 1.5 ever since. Same with Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Their fertility fell dramatically in the 70s when they started introducing strong socialist welfare policies and have been on average below replacement ever since, and falling further in the last decade. Russias fertility collapsed with the end of communism and introduction of neoliberal oligarchy. While Koreas hyper capitalism has also seen a precipitous fall in birth rates. You are right that neoliberal capitalism is awful for working people. But fertility rates really don't seem connected to that. They have been consistently below replacement for decades in communist countries, in social democratic countries, in neo liberal countries, in oligarchies, in one party states, in mixed economies, and many have also seen a further fall in the last decade regardless of their economics and how progressive their governments are. Some have more immediate crisis than others, but they are all on the same trajectory. There is something more universal that is affecting all developed nations regardless of their economics that is the cause
In developed countries with fertility problems, ironically it's countries that women have a greater participation rate in the workforce than have higher birth rates.
Tldr: Women want to have children when they feel like they can have a life outside of being a baby machine
@@WhichDoctor1 while you’ve made some valid points, you also have to realize that all the systems of government that you’ve outline are in one form or another subject to the effects of U.S./E.U. led capitalism and have been since the end of the Cold War maybe even WWII because we exist in a global economy dominated by the U.S./E.U.
Even phrases like “natalist” & “immigration as a solution” are strange. Natalism is just being normal to want a productive, healthy society & immigration is not a solution; it’s short term economic boost at best that doesn’t solve the problem & creates its own unique ones
Bro immigration isn't short term, it's a long term solution that has made the US the most competitive countries to live in the world.
@@ricardobarahona3939the US is basically 99 % immigrants in the span of few hundred years
@@ricardobarahona3939 No it didn't. Untill the end of the 60's the US was mostly a homogenous country. Then they singed a bill and opened their borders. That worked so well for them lol.
@@ricardobarahona3939 Europe is not the US. We don't have the capabilities to integrate all those people (just look at Denmark and Sweden)
@@crabLT The US has never been a homogenous country. Throughout US history there have been anti-immigrant idiots who opposed any foreigners from coming, first it was German and Irish immigrants, then it was Eastern/Southern Europeans,Jews, and the Chinese. People who could not look "white" were banned until civil rights laws passed because of how stupid that was. Now the US is a leader in many industries because of immigration. Stop falling for the same lies the know nothing party told themselves.
If Orban was my president, I wouldn't want to make kids either. I'd want to escape.
Many such cases.
Yeah, and people ARE escaping from there
@@whitezombie10 Hungary's emigration rate is lower than other eastern European countries but nice try.
2 million Hungarians would need to leave tomorrow to match the emigration rates of Romania and Poland over the last 20 years. And 4 million Hungarians to match the emigration rates of Latvia and Lithuania.
To the contrary; Orban's leadership has perhaps led to one of the lowest emigration rates in eastern Europe. Only Slovenia and Serbia are lower. One is rich and the other one is nationalist.
Orban has an approval rating higher than almost all of the other leaders in europe.😂
@@odinsteffes5278 What all of these braindead leftwing morons miss is that for the first 12 years of Orban's rule, the main opposition party wasn't even a left wing party or a centrist party, it was Jobbik, a far right party. Or at least, further to the right than Orban.
As other commenters have pointed out, a massive issue is that Hungary's public services, healthcare and education system are all struggling, barely keeping on in a lot of instances with the government seemingly openly dismissing these issues, opting to rather trying to silence those who speak up, or to shift the blame to anyone else but them (usually the EU, or "the war"). In situations like this, even people who own large enough homes and/or have stable employment opt for owning pets rather than having children. Or, as others have also pointed out, they emigrate in the hopes for a brighter future for them and their future families.
„Hungarians do not want to become people of mixed race“
Genghis Khan and the Ottoman Empire: 🤫😝
Nobody is forcing Hungarian to mix with anyone
Yeah great people. We want them back.
@@TheGoukaruma back to Asia?
@@ambessaseway5594you’re already mixed bud
all people, except maybe for the north sentinelese, are people of mixed race. genetically, hungarians are pretty much identical to austrians with 25% celtic/italic, 25% slavic ancestry (the rest is a colourful mix with a few percent each of anatolian, germanic, greek, south slavic, ...). that one country speaks hungarian and the other german is just an accident of history. central europe is a hotpot of people of different ethnic backgrounds mixing, due to obvious geographic reasons.
2023 in Hungary:
- In January, bread inflation was almost 82%, food inflation was over 48%, general inflation was 26.2%, three times the EU average!
- In the first quarter, real wages fell the most in Hungary with a 15.6%, which is 4 times of OECD average
- In July our money lost 36% of its value in 2 years due to inflation !!!
- In January, Lőrinc Mészáros, Orban's main strawman increased the monthly tolls by 72% after he bought the 35-year motorway concession
- Lőrinc Mészáros bought a yacht for 27 billion forints, which is almost 11,000 years of average Hungarian pension. Mészáros's wealth increased by 50%, 330 billion forints in a single year
- The Matolcsy, the head of central bank (MNB), bought an apartment in New York for 14 billion forints, which is equivalent to 5608 years of average Hungarian pensions. Meanwhile, the MNB has accumulated losses of HUF 2400 billion
- The Orbán family's visible! wealth reaches HUF 100 billion, Orbán's father built a mansion in Hatvanpuszta for 10 billion forints
- The cows on János Lázár minister's stud farm got waterbeds for HUF 3 billion from the state!
- In 2023, Romania overtook Hungary in GDP per capita,
- In 2023, Bulgaria overtook Hungary in per capita consumption, making Hungary the poorest member of EU.
- Hungary has the 2nd lowest average wage and minimum wage in the EU !
- The Dear Leader has finally found the magic weapon against inflation: he just had to fire the leading statisticians of the Hungarian Statistical Office, put them under the Rogán-led propaganda ministry and the single-digit inflation was achieved...! In 2023, the consumer price index was still 17.6% and food inflation 25.9%.
- In 2023, growth (-0.9%) was the 3rd worst in the EU
- 700 billion forints spent by the government to buy the Vodafone Hungary and give it away to Orban's stooge (equivalent to about 280,000 years of average Hungarian pensions)
- 2021 foreign human traffickers were released from Hungarian prisons in 2023 (official explaination: keeping them in prison is too expensive)
- There are already 100,000 Asian migrant workers in Hungary, who are undercutting the wages of Hungarian workers, with their numbers increasing by about 1,000 a month
- 40% of the Hungarian population run out of money by the end of the month, with no savings
- The Hungarian birth count has fallen to an all-time low
- OTP survey shows that 94 out of 100 young people do not want to work in Hungary !
- 125,000 Hungarians already work in Austria
- Half a million Hungarians have disappeared in 10 years, the country's population is below 9.6 million, at 1953 levels and falling
- In 2023 the budget deficit was 4593 billion forints , about 6.5 percent of GDP, more than double the 3 percent accepted by the EU, the Hungarian state paid the largest interest burden after the national debt in the EU to GDP (4.3%), the interest expenses amounted to HUF 3,500 billion, which is equivalent to 1.26 million years of Hungarian average pension, meanwile GDP growth rate was -0.9%.
- In december, a new law was launched to silence critical media outlets and civil organizations!
When a far right that only cares about "pure race population" and immigration get elected, this is what you get
It's not always about the money. So measures like this can only go so far.
maybe increase the taxes of billionaires who were gonna buy a second 300 million dollar yacht with 5 different new villas with staff, and spend some of it on families who need money to raise kids
That's why billionaires love right wing populists
@@blueboy3990 that's why Elon loves Trump, tax cuts and deregulations, and in his case disliking immigrants, which is ironic because he's a visa overstayer if I remember right
@@blueboy3990 right wing is only parties that dont want Europe to become non-european populated
@@МиколаРиндяThen how come billionares always sneak into them
@@Ar1AnX1xNo, Elon loves Trump for being anti-woke. Most billionaires like Zuckerberg and Bezos support the DNC. Just shows you that the DNC is also the rich's party.
Who wouldn’t?
Ultimately, European countries need more children if they want to have a future.
Then European governments should change laws so that a large majority of people feel like they could have a future instead of just the few at the top feeling that way
@@iambicpentakill971Yeah, just keep doing what you’ve been doing for the last century, maybe it’ll start working eventually.
When i was growing up people were crying theres too many people and now there aint enough 😂 Nobody is going extinct. Populations worldwide will start to decrease. Will benefit children born in a few generations time and the planet will hopefully heal from less consumption
Most commentators on this channel seem to prefer that Europe not have a future. At least - not one that involves actual Europeans.
As a hungarian I must add to this video that the other way Orban trying to achieve this number is banning abortion or making it as hard to get as possible.
(As a "mother" you'll have to first listen to the heartbeat of the child and ONLY after that you'll become aligible for the abortion, which risks running out of time)
Bruh what? It's sad they went down this route (similar with Poland). The thing is women get afraid of not only children but sex all together when they know if they get pregnant they will be forced to have a child and be ridiculed for not doing so, they straight up avoid that.
@@justinjoseph8491 that's pretty much the point. anti-abortion rhetorics are strongly linked to women's disempowerment, especially regarding sexuality. the idea is that children are the punishment for having sex, which echoes the christian fundamentalist sentiment that all sex outside of trying to make babies is a sin. but conservatives also want to make sure that this punishment falls squarely on women, unless there are no women in the equation
A typical fanaticism of a populist.
@@DeeSnow97remind me what the biological purpose of sex is
@@justinjoseph8491oh no how awful
i heard someone discussing the fertility drop recently. And they said that the majority of the fall in fertility in industrialised nations over the last 70 years can be explained by a massive reduction in women getting pregnant under the age of 18. So basically, not enough teenage mothers is the problem. I remember when i was young the scourge of teenage mothers was a very popular moral panic among conservatives here in the UK for quite a few years. Teenage mothers were publicly scapegoated for every social and economic ill of the nation. Well they got what they wanted, teenage pregnancy has massively reduced, and not only have all the problems they blamed teenage mothers for not gone away, now their absence has caused a new crisis to panic about
Yeah, historically speaking a good chunk of pregnancies weren't planned beforehand
This is such a shitty argument 😂
I don’t think there should be teenage mothers either way…
what percent of pregnancies were teenage? I dont feel like looking it up, but if i were a betting man, its in the single digit %. the fundamental reason is contraception. its that simple. when you delay first child, you have fewer years of high fertility. apply that on population scale and you get the current status quo.
Being mothers was previously all that women could offer. Now that women can work and have more rights than men they can do as they please and civilization is going to collapse because of it.
Fertility rates should be increased in every country in Europe, congratulations Orban for this measures . He should have focused on this point when in charge of EU and not visiting dictator's.
Yea but.. . . as the video said, its not really working.
It's clear you wrote the comment before watching the video 😆
@@najex1 Not yet.
@@najex1it did, it is just that csok (the cheap loan for buying houses) just inflated housing prices, so now you're back to square one when you're planning to start a family.
Income tax exemption for a few years is still fire tho.
No-one wants to have kids in a mafia state.
perhaps if people weren't so exhausted from working so hard for so little, they could afford the time and money to invest in children.
nothing gets you going like a tax brake. :,D
😅👍
@@gilgabro420 lol... How stupid a woman must be to allow the government, any government, to use her womb and put her in expenses and unpaid labour for 20 years because they give her a tax brake for a few years or less
Thats how I get my wife in the mood.
STOP CALLING IT FERTILITY. It's not a fertility stat. it's a 'willingness to have/pay for kids' stat. For the longest time, i thought it was related to biological reasons.
Why would you think that?
Fecundity is a more accurate word here
Immigration is not a solution to low fertility in any way. At most, it's a palliation of symptoms.
To add to this, there is some interesting and insightful data to add to this in regards to reproduction rates, and that is the gypsy minority of Hungary. On paper, 3-4% of the population identifies as roma, altough in reality this number is somewhere around 11%. The reason roma people feel discouraged to identify as roma is beacuse they are afraid they face discrimination for it (I wonder why). Within Hungary, (and other Eastern European conutries as well) the roma communities often live in (racially) segregated surroundings. This means segregated communities (which is the fault of the government only in the sense that it does not try to deal with it, but doesn't enforce it), segregated education (explicitly roma schools and classes inside schools, yes very bad and criminal outright), being forced into underpaid labor or being pressured into working without a working contract (the employers dont pay the state after them, etc). The list goes on, and there's no incentive to make their lives better, there's a rapid impoversihing trend in the country instead. Anyway, the point I tried to make is that this 10-11% of the population is responsible for around 1/3 (33%) of all births in the country, meaning the (as a majority) poor discriminated minority is disproportionately representing reproduction (shocking). Between 2006-2050, they are set to double their proportion as a percentage of the population.
Hungarian youth is extremely liberal and pessimistic about the state of the future, emigration is currently hitting record highs, etc. People do not have kids out of spite.
What I meant to portray is that the situation is significantly more dire than portrayed even in the video. This is just to have a real glimpse into the reality of the hungarian society and it's highly praised conservative policies.
Yup, in a hundred years Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria will unite in a new country named Rromania (GypsiLand)
This is why Orbán's program excludes "poor" families. He's an internalised racists, who does everything he can to hide his gypsy ancestry.
@@fockewulf190d9 how are you supposed to pronounce the two r's?
And the funny part is that these segregated poor families vote Orban massively at every election, despite they gain almost nothing from Orban’s ‘family friendly’ subsidies.
@@malogibeaux4946 I have no idea.
This is what happens when populist ambitions (mixed with demagoguery) meet reality. Like other authoritarians, Orban refuses to learn from other examples.
Surprise, nobody wants to spend their future in a dystopian parafascistic regime.
A dystopian regime is what you have in the UK where they put you in jail for making comments on the Internet
and you have AI facial recognition systems on the streets.
I think I would rather live in a country that pays for having children than o
ne that takes money from pensioners to give sposor to illegal migration
A dystopian regime is what you have in the UK where they put you in jail for making comments on the Internet
and you have AI facial recognition systems on the streets.
Totalitarian leftists like you want to annihilate Europe 🤷♀️
It's obvious he'll help feed Putin the children he wants too
@@karo2090threaten to burn my street down, and you can go to jail. Don't matter if you were the boots on the ground or a recruiter behind a keyboard
Play daft games, win daft prizes
A quick correction for 6:22 . In Hungary, there is no minimum limit for income tax, even minimum wage folk pay 15%.
Why is it a flat tax rate💀
@@dererik9070 Because they don't care about the everyday people, they just wanna make their childhood buddies richer and richer (who can afford to evade taxes using tax havens)
as in western countries, actully they pay more often
if your economy is predicated on infinite growth it has foundational issues
If your social plan is to have the human species stagnate, it has foundational issues.
@@Veritas.0The human population has stagnated for thousands of years. It's nothing new.
@@praveenkrishnamoorthy6528 Then what are you complaining about? You just countered your own claim of infinite growth. Either it's stagnant or growing, which is it?
exactly
@@Veritas.0 we have limited resources
we would have enough money if the government managed the taxes properly and if they closed the tax loops on billionaires/corporations
Hungary's policy is actually somewhat impressive when contextualized. Every country in the world except Hungary and 2 others have had decreasing TFR over the past 10 years, so even a moderate increase is significant
Yes, but you're mostly talking to bots and morons here 😂
Hm so a politician wants to borrow money to pay for future taxpayers that will also have to pay for the interest on the costs it took for them to be born in the first place.
we dont want to be a mixed race is fucking funny.... since we are the most mixed race in the balkanXDXDXD
geneticly every country in Europe is almost pure white, its changing just for nearest 60 years
yea balkan still european but mix with arab muslims is the real problem .
I think younknow what he means. He doesn't want Hubgary to resemble France or Belgium. And who can blame him when we see the chaos in those countries.
@@JJ-te2pi yeah but to me it's funny, since I am historical aware, that we.r one of the.most mixed cocasian ppl in Europe.
We have multiple asian nomadick ppl+Germans+Turkish+Russian+ who the fuck knows whatXD
@@wackpool1491 What you say happened slowly over thousands of years, but what is being discussed here is the importation of millions of people of very different cultures from Europe in just a few years.
How just be born [insert tribal identity] makes you better than others?
Hungary has a broken education system, run by the Home Secretary, ex-police chief maffia boss [he runs the healthcare too] Having children is a long term commitment and huge responsibility. Just birthing is not enough, you have to raise them and that is very hard in Hungary. [payout and tax-breaks are just not enough without future education, social services and healthcare] (I was raised in Hungary)
He was always the interior minister in every Orban government. I'm sure he doesn't know anything incriminating about the colostorm pig.
@TLDR, what you still refuse to acknowledge is, that each year in Hungary even thou the number of woman able to be a mother is decreasing, the number of children born is the same.
so since women in their 20s are like 50% compared to women in 40s in Hungary, so fertility of 1.5 rate done by 50% of the women is actually a good result.
the real issue is that the benefits of those policies done in Hungary, would not be seen for at least another 10 years, when realistically, the people born in 2010s would start to have their own children.
Majority of Hungary money comes from EU funds without that they would have 50 billion deficit every year
EU funds account for less than 2% of Hungary's GDP
@@PrexXyx not true EU Subsidies Hungary Agriculture/Infrastructure + plus free access to EU Market make 30% of Hungary gdp
@@ambessaseway5594 Since Hungary joined the EU, it received an average 4 billion euros annually from the EU (including development funds and agricultural subsidies). At the same time, Hungary contributed an average 1 billion euros annually to the EU budget. This makes an annual average surplus of 3 billion Euros.
In 2023, Hungary had a GDP of 196 billion euros. 3 / 196 = 1.53%. So as I said, EU funds account for less than 2% of Hungary's GDP. Still a sizable amount, but this wouldn't bankrupt the country
EU funds to Hungary were frozen for 1.5 years and they had no effect on the economy other than causing additional work and a big headache for the Minister of Finance
Bringing up access to the free market is rather stupid, because it is not an EU fund
@@PrexXyx The European Commission on Wednesday unblocked €10.2 billion in frozen EU cohesion funds earmarked for Hungary, + around 20 billion euro is still frozen for 1 year
@@ambessaseway5594 That happened in November 2023 if I remember well. And that amount is not for 1 year but for the 7-year cycle (2021-2027) we are currently in. So even according to the numbers you quoted, Hungary is supposed to receive 4.3 billion euros annually
So basically the argument is, "Yeah, the incentives are working. But they are not working enough." Seems like a good start to me.
How many children does orban have
Five according to Wikipedia.
He has a son and four daughters
Here's a defacto solution, regulate the housing market.
Instead of corporations making as much money as possible, regulate the price to cover the cost only.
Done, housing prices drop by at least 30% if not 80%. Now the population can afford to have children.
No need to regulate, just build lots of social housing apartments prefab factory built and beautiful old facades.
Then out in working people with children.
Make then housing co-operatives, and they pay off the cost of the build with interests free loan.
Housing crisis historically is cheap and easy to fix, with many examples of it being done.
Hungary is not the US. They have basically no big corporations.
This is not due to housing. It has never been due to housing.
If a ton of unused housing would solve the problem, China's ghost towns in 3rd tier cities should be resulting in a Chinese population boom. We want to believe that some issues have simple solutions, but that's rarely the reality.
If you put a cap on the price of housing, you create an enormous housing shortage, and then nobody can ever find a place to live.
BS! he is investing that money into a furure Hungary vs NO Hungary. To be or not to be.
It baffles me that politicians think people are too stupid to understand that children cost far more than any pathetic financial benefit they offer. If you want people to have more kids, make pre and post natal care free - and guarantee lifelong free childcare for all children born within the narrow window of the program. That’s real cost savings - and a dash of FOMO to incentivise immediate action.
Free healthcare has no impact on fertility rates whatsoever, that wouldn’t help at all.
this isn't an issue that simple minded politician can solve, not unless there's deep research done on it by the best universities and intellectuals that can figure out all the root sociological, economical and other reasons for it
It's because people would much rather spend their time and money on entertainment and buying expensive goods to elevate their social status
Academia today is too biased on such topics. Maybe 60 years ago it was a good idea
Lol, it’s housing crisis.
Everyone knows that. Politicians are acting like they are trying to solve the problem but on reality they are transferring public money to their investments…
Financial help -> prices grow -> more private profits -> even less people can afford mortgages since prices went up.
Obviously it isn't Orban thinking of this stuff himself, like the media would like you to think. They always do this with the countries they don't like. They pick a man that they will pour all of the hate on and then keep trashing him and making him impossible capable and evil at the same time.
The whole tax system should be child centric
Why do that when you can import children from other countries for free?
@@SubjectiveFunny if only it were free
@@SubjectiveFunnyI really can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or not.
@Tovalokodonccertainly not in the long run!
@Tovalokodonc it can be but it requires more than just getting people into the country. But that's rarely done right.
More drastic measures must be taken to prevent demographic collapse.
5:00 It is worth noting that the Hungarian Statistical Office also takes into account babies born abroad to Hungarian parents. Of these 160,000 newborns, at least a third live in the UK, Austria or Germany with parents who have emigrated due to the controversial political climate in the country.
This is wild. Why should there not be more spending on family than Defence, why not focus on families, it’s what makes functioning sustainable societies.
Lots of people defending Orban here. But the way he’s doing it is going to backfire. The way this is set up, the more the program succeeds the greater the economic burden on the state, the greater the implosion is going to be when all this support gets cutoff when it gets too expensive. Subsidies are great, but they need to facilitate economic growth to pay back the investment. If your policies bankrupt the state before it sees results then you’re actually just creating a financial catastrophe
Hungarians will have to learn the hardway until they give Orban the booth out of his chair.
@@Siranoxz I hope that happens in 2026… but with his new plans, we might still lose even if the majority votes for TISZA.
There is a strong correlation between less to loose and higher birth rate. Less to loose more children.
so.... should we have to bring back serfdom?
There is absolutely 0 problem with population decreasing. We produce more than enough resources to maintain the aging population. In addition, there is nothing inherently wrong with population decreasing. It is only a problem with capitalism, because it means line not go up, which hurts profits and infinite growth.
This is true.
You need people to pay for and upkeep the whole system, if a population is not reproducing itself you need people from outside. And we have seen how all of those "doctors and engineers" help...
@crabLT You don't. Housing is not an issue because we already have houses for them, and we produce so much food it's genuinely insane. You'd just need a bit more social workers which you can easily incentivize. You don't need immigration even, you don't need anything, it is simply not an inherent issue.
@snozzy-w2g and what if the ground is made out of cheese?
@snozzy-w2g That has absolutely nothing to do with the resources you need.
1. Food is a resource we can make plenty of and already make plenty off
2. Housing would become less of an issue with declining population
3. Social workers for the elderly would be needed but that can easily be incentivized
"Money can't fix the problem."
Bravo!
Wisely spent money can
I was building a house in a time when house support started. All prices just went higher for value of maximum loan. If you have 3 kids you were at same. For rest of us houses got more expensive. Money went to government friendly companies who profited from this.
"How dare a leader care about the health and development of his people?"
Orban does have a lot of problems, but him attempting to fix the demographic crisis is very good. Every country should focus on having a healthily growing population. Orban spending ressources on that doesn't make him "obsessed" but rather more foreward thinking that most other European leaders who either ignore the issue or rely on immigration.
Couldn't say it better 👏
There´s a problem with your way of thinking.
Orban is not forward thinking, Orban is just wanting to prevent his own people from having babies from non Hungarians..
Without immigration, your economy would simply collapse or may not function with other competitive countries.
You would literally shooting yourself in the foot by not encouraging labor immigration from other European countries and expect to rely on your own population does not guarantee or even ensure high birth rates and a good functioning economy.
Better yet if you still think this way then leave the EU altogether and stop relying on EU funds, just rely on your own domestic resources and lets see how you will hold out.
You people are way to delusional.
These policies are terrible. He would have had better success has he made housing more affordable in general but he didn't because of ideological reasons. Instead he's fueling inflation with these tax cuts that benefit the middle class which is not having babies anyway, while making life for poor people (by extension also young people) more difficult. Too much ideology with Orban and no practical achievements as usual.
Did you watch the video till the end?
Orban might spotted his concerns about a big problem, but he is using awful and useless tools to fix it!
Giving money to rich families won’t help if the majority of women/families don’t feel perspective in their life. If they feel their future unsafe and unpredictable with having a collapsing health care and educational system!
Yep, they are shaming him because he's not doing what they are doing, and instead tries to solve things.
What do you mean why? Isn't it obvious? Or is it a problem he wants more natives Europeans instead of more "doctors" and "engineers" ?
Europeans can't be doctors and engineers ?
hungarians just move to other eu nations. too corrupted and taking on old men side
@@blueboy3990 I meant third world migrants. And of course they can.
@@crabLT why did you say it like that though
@@boblol1465 Like what? By being sarcastic?
the hate is real.
Accepting a slower economic growth rate to maximize time spent at home by legally limiting the working hours per week per person with intolerance towards a violation of said law is a step
In another video, you showed the correlation between low birth rate and high housing costs.
A law could he helpful:
House contractors are allowed to build only apartments with more then 120 m2 and 4 bedrooms. In this way, the low entry apartments (just 1.room) would become scarce, lowering the price of larger apartments
Either they pay you, or they pay migrants...you choose
I am Italian and my answer is: PAY MIGRANT WORKERS!! And pay them fairly.
@@JessicaDainese ...To have the babies you're unwilling to have yourself.
How magnanimous.
either you are the wage slave or the migrant is the wage slave... you choose
Pay Migrants a decent wage... a future of multiculturalism doesnt scare me or send me into a rage.
You don't need to "pay" migrants, you just need to integrate them in the workforce
I would try anything before willingly replacing my country's population and culture
European women are looking at South Korean births where women decided to let it burn and loads of us are choosing the same path, I know I did!
My ex employer asked me why I decided to never have children... The audacity! I turned to him and asked him if his rich children need a new generation of poor children to exploit... His face! 😳 And to shut this "conversation" down forever I told him that by choosing to not give birth to more children I took away from him not only a future generation of workers but also the future generation of consumer! Let this 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
You go girl slaaaaay queeen slaaaay
"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit."
Selfishness because of perceived slights is the biggest problem of the current world.
@@Veritas.0 if this "society" doesn't work for me I will refuse to put my womb to work for them. End of...
@@marilenaganea6578 That's fine, but then why are you replying to this? You've already decided your life is going to be inconsequential in the long run. Why should your opinion matter?
They will buy robots from china instead of you
Honestly, a lot of us just don't want to have children for this regime.
At the same time, I don't think immigration is any kind of solution at all. It's just supposed to keep the economy running at the expense of social stability, but it is failing at that too, with all those foreign immigrants ending up costing more.
i live not too far from hungary and visit at least once a year (love the nice people, good food and beautiful landscape). but while i complain that in my own country any new project is progressing only at snails pace, it's sad to see that hungary is stagnating at best. 25 years ago you could see hungary modernising with every visit, now it's rather the opposite. even the building at the border that used to sell the hungarian matrica is just standing there empty with broken windows and crumbling while the matrica is now sold in a shabby kiosk that looks as if the wind could blow it away at any time.
no wonder no one is having children when the future looks worse than today.
It's a cultural thing, highly educated women want fewer children and wait too long with getting them.
How do you think that could that be discouraged?
Yes, you'd have to restructure the system so that a career is very difficult without getting children. I am generally against quotas, but if you passed one saying that 80% of a companies CEOs (and every other kind of high career job) must have children, that would probably work.
@@rixorobert You can't change it unless you want to block higher education for women which is a non starter. After a long education women will first want to focus on having a career and by their late thirties when they realize nothing they accomplished means all that much with nobody to do it for it's often too late.
@@tellyboy17 Those are the same conclusions I came to. I guess you have to tackle the other factors of lowering birth rates
@@rixorobert I suspect the main factor is that culture rejects nature's role for women: to produce a substantial amount of children at a young age. Frankly, I can't blame women for rejecting the fate nature has designed them for and I doubt one could pay them to change their mind as Orban seems to think. So I guess populations will shrink, which isn't a bad thing for an overpopulated planet.
On many point I may not like Orban but he do make excellent point on both immigration and natalism
Same, but I wish the actual policies were more effective. The biggest chunk of "family subsidies" was 100% absorbed by the construction companies by increasing prices.
So why don't his policies work if he is so correct?
@@Elkator955 Because the objective is to give parents more money to start families, while in practice people that already have kids got more money and chose not to have more kids while also inflating the economy and making young people even poorer.
@@PhthaloJohnson Not really true. The 10m “baby-anticipation” loan didn’t take into account kids already born. And this IS by far the biggest support.
@@Elkator955 Good at identifying problems. Bad at solutions
At the end of the day, having a kid is a 20 year long obligation to the child and a link to the other person. Most people these days dont know where they are going to be in 5
So easy to fix, if he Orban was willing to make housing cheaper, but he wasnt.
Increasing supply of Electrictity, childcare, food and good education too.
Pension spending is actually the Elephant in the room, it's the single biggest expense in most developed nations, by a margin, and it will be worse in future.
"Hungarians dont want to become peoples of mixed race" what the hell is his problem....
So Hungarians end up mixing with other races by emigrating
Its not Hungarians, its just Orban not wanting race mixing..
A racist populist very much..
The problem is the current end phase of said mixed race peoples doing _very_ diverse things in countries like Sweden, the U.K., France and Germany to not so mixed race peoples with certain sharp objects, to name an example.
@@HighFlyingOwlOfMinerva it's funny isn't It that people like you can't even conceive of scientists, teachers, etc Who are mixed Race or ethnic minority, when Plenty such people exist.
You just have one thought in your head "non-white"= bad and no amount of evidence Will get through.
I'm Also anticipating the normal far-right whinge that anyone Who disagrees with you doesn't know anything about reality, despite the fact that people Who do live in London and Paris hate the far right.
Why is that a problem??
Pro child policies are not expensive, compared to the expense of a collapsing demographic. THINK
Well Hungary’s seeing their demographics collapse anyways so they’re being hit by the expenses of both
@@thomasgrabkowski8283 policies take years to affect change
The real solution would be massively increasing the taxes on contraception, making it highly unavailable. But nobody will ever do that, as it's a highly unpopular solution. Once contraception becomes more available in the middle east and africa, their birthrates will also massively decline, but, just as here, nobody will ever speak about the availability of contraception as the main culprit. It's a horrible issue as, after all, contraception leads to lower spread of STD's and gives more freedom to women. But it also MASSIVELY reduces fertility rates. And immigration is a short term solution, because in Islamic culture, it's perfectly normal and even glorified to marry one's cousin - and they continue to do that even when they migrate. Literally ALL muslim countries have insanely high consanguine marriage ratios, which will inevitably lead to horrible side effects, including infertility, as is now happening in Pakistan, where this ratio is over 70%. It's a brutally complex problem for which, I think, an international solution will be needed.
As I explained to other "force the people to have kids" comments, the solution is to make people WANT to have kids not the force them.
Essentially you are encouraging generations of unwanted kids that felt like a burden until they leave their parents. Someone that uses contraception or even abortion clearly hates the idea of having children (at least at this point in their lifes), so if they are forced into it then they'll spend the minimum possible on the kid until he leaves, it's that simple (unless you believe people will magically love their kid once they are out).
In the past, having a kid was an advantage because you could make him work the land or take care of the animals, giving you an easier life. Nowadays, a kid will only give you a bankrupcy because you gotta pay his studies, something that he might not even appreciate in the future.
the fact is, if the government pour "free" money in the market, this will (it did already) increases prices and inflation. The contractors, manufacturers and sellers are aware about it and they want to grab this money, they want have more profit. They also want to leverage their standard of living. The families who got this money will spend it with less care as it was "free". So, the value of this home building/buying allowance decreased with ~30% and this situation made worst for all those who are not eligible to get this money or want to spend on something else because prices were increased.
2:15 it’s not “controversial” to want Hungary to be made up of actual Hungarians in the future.
But hey, we Hungarians are already a super ‘mixed race’!!! What the hell was he talking about last summer. That was just a clickbait phrase to be picked up by the national media to create buzz around him again.
@@gdarabos nobody says that Hungarians are some lost tribe from the first men , but they’ve settled in that region and through hundreds of years created a clear ethnic group of there own. So let’s not pretend that Hungary is some “melting pot” where anyone can become Hungarian just by getting a bit of paper. Hungary like most nations measure citizenship by blood. It’s why they still look out for there diaspora overseas.
Why do they only ever try money?
Never time off work, or time off looking after children.
One of the biggest things with having kids isn't just money, it's lack of free time.
This is what’s gonna happen to Hungary 18 to 22 years later - children from this baby boom will finish their education at roughly the same time. Then they’ll realise that there are way too many peers to compete against in the domestic job market. So they leave for other immigrant-friendly nations to seek jobs. Setting aside the irony that an anti-immigrant policy is turning their own citizens into immigrants, this policy doesn’t solve anything in the long run. You still lose population, not to unwillingness to have kids, but to negative immigration.
Calling it a baby boom is a wild exaggeration, even when it peaked it was far below replacement
@@sonny19931 so it's not a successful policy like everyone's touting it to be? wow surprise surprise.
@@Ballacha Dude that's what the video is about
But wouldn't Hungary have that problem regardless of what it's politics are? Are there any politics that the poorer European nations can adopt that would keep their young people from immigrating to richer European nations?
@Zoetherat true it is a fairly standard problem, but when the politics actively makes them want to leave, it is only worse.
If the progress of Europe looks like this the only solution will be extremely dystopian, forceful births. I would not be surprised if Hungary/belarus/russia force their women to have children. We in the EU still have a chance to save our families