Korg DW-8000: Is It Worth It? Is it OVERRATED?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 чер 2021
- Today Zach is checking out one of the most famous vintage hybrid synths, the Korg DW-8000. At relatively modest resale prices, is this synth still worth it in today's market? Do you agree with Zach that it leaves something to be desired? Check out the demo sounds and listen to the specs and let us know where you stand!
Demos start at 8:31
__________________________________________________________________
♪ Contact us: www.alamomusic.com/contact
♩ Call toll-free: (844)251-1922
♬ Connect:
Twitter → / alamomusic
Instagram → / alamomusic
Facebook → / 1375975579208745
Yeah man- the Korg predates the Ensoniq. In the 80s I was dreaming of the DW-8000 and at the music store ready to buy it... right when the Ensoniq ESQ-1 was released. Literally a crowd was around the ESQ-1 with the sequencer running the demo and it was AMAZING. I ended up being blown away by the Ensoniq and put in my waitlist order for it even though it was more expensive, the sequencer totally sold me on it and many of the same synth capabilities were there but with 3 oscillators per voice vs only 2 on the Korg. I did LOVE the warmth and darkness of the Korg but as a musician in high school I found so much more in the Ensoniq. So glad I did but there's still a soft place in my heart for the DW-8000 which I never got.
I have one for sale if you want one!
Got one in 86 still have it and will never part with it love it
So the NJM-2069 filter is found in DW-6k/8k/EX-8k, DSS-1, DSM-1 and yes also in Poly800 too! Best filter Korg ever had (apart from miniKorg/maxiKorg). It's an OTA cascade, inspired by SSM2044.
In my mind, one of the best sounding hybrid synths ever, second only to Waldorf Wave and PPGs. The only thing that hampers it is not even lack of physical controls, but more importantly parameter resolution.
Thank you for the info! I’ve been looking for someone to point me in the right direction.
The DSM-1 has 16 filter chips! Will try to hack it some day to get cutoff and resonance controlled over MIDI.
I love this synth. I bought it used twelve years ago, it's been through a maintenance and today it works as new. For the sound it was designed for, it's perfect to my ears.
Yes, this exactly. It lives in a neither world between analog and digital.
An Oberheim emulation sound on the budget as Espen Kraft once said and I'll have to agree. His bank demonstrates it well and it is a good starting point. The big 80's poly pads are amazing as is the unison mode. You just have to program it properly beyond they cheesy factory sounds often heard. My fave out of all budget vintage synths hands down and it is underrated.
Lovely synth. Limited, but great sounding. It has an 80s melancholy feel to it. But if you want a truly versatile version of it, you better check the DSS-1. You can draw your own waveforms (and it generates multi-samples automatically!), make them with additive, hard sync them, you´ve the same filter chip but with additional 12dB mode, and of course you have sampling. The DSS-1 is one of the most versatile and better sounding synths in the world without a doubt.
I've owned all 3, but the K3 and ESQ-1 stuck around... The true gem of a Korg from this era of architecture is the DSS-1. People claim it's impossible to edit, but it's really not IMO. It's basically a DW-8000 with unlimited waveform options, dual delays (one per output), and the ability to split/layer patches. I believe it uses the same filter, but offers both 12 and 24 db/octave modes. They are also insanely cheap: ~$400. Retroactiv is releasing a controller later this year that is going to change the game for the DSS-1, eliminating all the clunky menu diving with built in waves ready to go.
I found the dss1 the most crippled sampler i owned ,single outputs very slow loading , a very hard sound character ( that could be tamed with the ssm filter) , heavy and cumbersome , it was ok if used as a hybrid synth but at the time it was korgs greatest flop that you can look more kindly to now
@@cnfuzz Oh man, I couldn't disagree more on it's sound, but that's just my opinion. I really don't use it as a sampler. Take a look at the controller from Retroaktiv, I think it will free it from many of its burdens .
Spend some time programming the machine. Experiment especially with pad sounds, with the filter being moved by envelopes and LFO, with high levels of resonance and using digiwaves having few and well distanced harmonics. You'll hear that the filter will literally sing over those harmonics in a very beautiful and expressive way. I was stunned when I discovered that with my 8000. Experiment with the digital delay too, if tweaked in the right way it can actually act as an LFO bending the pitch.
What a bummer that the programming interface is so annoying (not difficult to understand and use, but quite time consuming), because this machine has a lot of potential under its knobless panel, waiting to be discovered.
Thanks for the suggestion. Will do.
You speak truth.
@@anoniconoclast2030 :-)
Solid channel. Straight forward. Like how people review cars and then take em for a drive.
Something I find very useful when using the edit slider live (resonance parameter for example) while soloing; to get back to the original value, simply press the up and down buttons at the same time. This perfectly gets you back to the original sound in an instant. Another thing I found to get a less bombastic unison sound, is to take the detuning out of the ocs's first since there is no detuning spread for unison mode like on a Jupiter 6. The solo brass I am getting makes me feel like a king.
Pros: sounds nice. Dirty delay adds lots of character. Waves go from traditional analog to very digital-sounding, and they're delightfully dirty too. Capable arpeggiator. Generally beautiful tone. Decent MIDI implementation. Complex ADBSSR envelopes open up a few possibilities, subject to limitations below:
Cons: No dynamic oscillator timbral modulation (i.e. PWM), no dynamic mixer modulation (like JX-8P) - the only possible tonal modulation is the filter cutoff, which severely limits flexibility. In other words, you have 16 static waveforms per oscillator, and that's it. Also it's a fragile plastic POS (but at least it's lightweight).
The ESQ-1/SQ-80 with its massive wave bank and comprehensive modulation capabilities outshine the Korg in every way, but somehow the DW always sounds just a bit sweeter.
Good job once again. You are really spot on about this synth. I played mine last night for nostalgic reasons, but really, this is one sleek synth.
I'm a huge fan of the 8K and have been since I first saw one at the mall when they were first released. There's a strong nostalgia factor here, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. For me, it's the very unique filter that gives it a sound unlike any of the other contenders. I have an SQ80 with the Curtis filters and, while I can understand arguments that it's "better", I certainly don't use it as much.The Korg is my go-to for pads. The somewhat wonky delay, the aftertouch, and a reasonably slow LFO make it perfect for that application. I've got the Stereoping MIDI controller for it, which isn't perfect, but it gets the job done, and I have a dedicated chorus pedal (The TC June 60) to thcken it up a bit more.
It isn't the perfect synth-it has very limited modulation routing, the aftertouch isn't polyphonic like the SQ, and but it's just buttery when it comes to the pads and I've never heard another filter that sounded like this one. For me? Very worth it. YMMV.
The DW8000 is one of the greatest man!. Those snobs with them Juno 60's.... This is gold. First of all the DW8000 is the best looking synth ever made. 100% David Hasselhoff in Knightrider. It makes a Jupiter 8 look like a kids toy. Those bright 8-segment displays, the wave-print, the black edges, the best looking keybed ever (wish it was a bit more silent though). Too bad your DW8000 had a crips-eating owner for too long.... The D50 is close in looks, but it's buttons are horrible, you can't operate the thing. Agree to others, presets are bad, but it is very easy to program and you can a lush pad/string monster with great bubbly sounds as well. The delay/rudimentary effects is awesome too. Watch some Synthmania DW8000 demo's and songs. He loves the machine and that shows of in his tracks.
Great video! I am 90% sure the DSS-1 uses the same filter.
One of the nicest sounding vintage synths i’ve ever owned - I sold it because one of the filters didn’t track properly - but I do still regret it…
I bought a used DW8000 in excellent condition in 1997 and loved its sound, easy programming interface, nice keyboard action with aftertouch and its looks. I sold it when I needed some extra spending money when going overseas a few years later and ended up selling it for almost 40% more than I paid for it!
Kevin Moore from Dream Theater used it on first 3 albums, it possess the creamiest lead tone ever recorded for that kind a music, and you can play very fast line with them, all notes would be clear and defined. Lovely synth imho.
This is it exactly. Love the leads I am getting after coming back to this sleek synth.
And those albums have some of the coolest synth sounds in DT's whole catalog.
@@chrisdigiuseppe7717 Agree. Much more organic and raw compare to any newer albums, especially few latest which almost sounds like plugins how overcooked and overlayered they are. I dont like that personally. Kind regards to you \m/
@@DadoSimicStudiostriver DW-8000 was my first 'real' synthesizer, and I bought it after being blown away by Images and Words back in the day. It's still one of my most used machines too, never fail to make an inspiring sound whenever I turn it on :)
@@chrisdigiuseppe7717 I havent had opportunity to buy one, but i planning to buy one and use for lifetime. DT first albums are my life inspiration too.
So far i use Alpha Juno 2 which can do somewhat similar sound, and few other modules but those are romplers and VA`s.
Kind regards. \m/
Remember falling in love with this. Remember bringing the sales leaflet to school.
I had bought it back then when it was released. What really convinced me - as someone who had no idea about a keyboard instrument - was how easy and fun it was to create your own sounds. In the video it sounds very digital and clean, but this thing is able to create analogue warm sounds easily. If you get to grips with the principle just a little, you get sucked into an addictive vortex and you virtually lose yourself in the sound possibilities. But not as complex and complicated as with a DX 7.
Ok so I’ve bought and sold this synth 3 times since 2014. I love this synth. I can’t help it. It’s my favorite poly synth. The key contacts are also very simple to clean if you ever have a problem
I owned one in the 80s. It had a nice electric piano sound for 80s ballads. Had more of a digital sound than the analog sounds of my Juno 60. It was for those of us who couldn't afford the Yamaha DX7 at the time. Thanks for the memory. I count myself lucky to grow up in the age of synths.
Hey! I wrote that Gearspace review that pops up on Google when you search for a DW review. Some thoughts:
This synth really shines when compared to the Juno and JX series of synths. Initially when I got mine I was looking for the smooth square wave tones and it delivered them almost straight away. It obviously goes beyond that, but it's a good place to start. Tune the 2nd oscillator to a 5th and the decay a little longer, throw on some delay, and the arpeggiator. Second, because of its digital waves, you can make these swarmy cold pads that sound super unique. I don't find the unison modes to be useful because there's no way to detune the voices, you end up with this thin stack.
Just some tips for noodling!
Love this synth mostly for its filter which makes it a bit more unique sounding compared to the K-3 or ESQ-1 which are all great sounding synths imo. And they have all become quite sought after and expensive. The DW-8000 has a rather limited interface, just like the (still underrated) Poly 61, which is restricting but also so straight forward that this can almost be seen as a plus. This is something I like a lot about many Korg instruments, they give you the feeling of being in full control over the sound so effortlessly. The DW-8000 sounds best for pads and brassy sounds to my ears.
The DW 8000 was the first synth I owned, bought it in the year it was released. I (almost) always liked and and I still have it but don't have the space to set up up right now (the KRONOS is my current synth). In the first years we had a band with two keyboarders, the other keyboarder owning the DX-7 which was a completely different beast. We used the DW 8000 whenever it was appropriate: Rich strings, organ sounds, powerful deep analog chords, and best of all: wall shattering lead sounds: The unisono function which stacked all the 16 oscillators created these buzzing, gurgling sounds that I have not heard from other synths. So I still have the DW 8000 in very good memory, did some renovation on it two years ago (new battery). What I always hated were the keys which were noisy and when the synth aged there were some keybed contact issues.
You should check out the Casio HT 6000 while you are checking out old hybrid synths. Not necessarily the best or most versatile or anything but extremely unique sounding and capable of some gorgeous atmospheric sounds, definitely worth a look imo.
The tone of this one stuck out to me as soon as I played it. You really gotta get the Retroaktiv programmer as I feel like this synth is more fun and shines in sound design. It also adds memory and a couple extra effects. It’s all subjective whether it’s worth it but even before the programmer I was into it as it has a midi capable arp, SysEx load of all banks (but not so much save), a distinct delay and unique tone I didn’t have in my other hybrids. I have the K3 too and like this one a little better. I’ll have to check out the EPS. Thanks for the video.
Had the DW-8000 and EX-8000 many years.
Nice synths with own character. But bored me after the years and I sold both. Never missed.
And the DSS-1 was my first sampler. Good old days.
Glad that I’m not alone in my opinion about it 😬. It’s loved by a lot of folks and it’s always nerve racking to express any negative emotion about an instrument. I’ve heard the dss1 is worth checking out.
Pretty similar to my experience
I bought one last month. It is impressive to my ears. Clunky and easy to use. You can get into the sound creation on this. I think it has analog filters. Looking forward to the comparison.
It does! It’s still a great piece, just slightly overhyped IMO.
@@asoundlab it is good at bass but it falls down on very course parameter resolution , the frequency settings and detune are far to restricting , it was marketed as poor mans ppg at the time but sounds nothing like ppg
I’d love to play a ppg. So rare and so expensive though. Have you had experience with one?
@@asoundlab i own the system since late 80s , wave 2.3 , ppg processor keyboard with natural sound expansions
They are not samples , they are additive generated representations
You are correct. Thanks for pointing that out. I’ll be sure to add that fact in a future video.
@@asoundlab They´re actually samples, generated in the factory by additive methods. But samples anyway. In fact, they´re multi-samples.
@@asoundlab electricdruid.net/wavetable-oscillators/
@@asoundlab web.archive.org/web/20150608203622/www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec98/articles/korgdw8000.731.htm
@@juno6 interesting!! The plot thickens.
Zach, do a review on The Sequential Prophet VS for "Best 80's Hybrid Polysynth". You won't regret it.
I bought one in 1987. It still works off the original battery! This includes an approx. 13-year period where I think I only used it once or twice. I use it regularly now and am amazed every time I turn it on and all the programs load. Would be nice if there were a better way to make backups than recording the programs on tape!
You can back it up to the cloud with an iPad and the patchbase app - great for editing patches as well.
I owned mine for 35 years before finally selling it. I really liked it, but it was time to either get some maintenance done or replace it. I use a wind controller with a lot of software based stuff, so I switched over to a keyboard controller with more control features. I had some really cool patches for it, there's one I really miss. It's #18 in the "superbank" that you can find in the video I did demoing patches. There's a Dropbox link in the description of that video. Or in the DW8000 fb group in the files section.
You should have kept it. It's easy to fix.
why do you keep calling it "the first budget hybric"? This was Korg's flagship, intended to compete with the Jupiter-8 and DX-7, it was far from 'budget' when it was released, even if they go for quite cheap these days
Over rated? No that's many Roland synths. If you program this thing, you realise just how cool it can sound. A prime example of not listening to presets to understand what it is capable of.
This synth magical, you either feel it or you don’t!
I think the artifacts were very beautiful And interesting. With a short guitar sound and a 7th chord and that beautiful slow filter sweep. It really comes alive. ❤ ❤❤
@14:45 that's the kind of sound the DW8000 really excels at... those plucked pad kind of sounds. Nice filter modulation in the envelope there.
Bass in unison are its forte , Yello used it a lot for that
It’s amazing for what it does! It might not have the greatest sonic range but it definitely is the ultimate kick drum synth.
The DW-8000's factory patches are simply dreadful. I have no idea how Korg managed to load this very capable synth with such thin, vapid patches. The first thing I did when I got mine was to completely re-patch it, and now it's full of rich and warm tones I couldn't go without. Which brings me to this: a big plus of the DW-8000 is how easy it is to program for a knobless synth. Whenever I need to run a quick test with a certain type of sound I don't already have in my fleet of synths, I go straight to the DW and normally, within 5 minutes of programming, I get a good approximation of the sound I'm looking for. No external controller involved. Try that with the D-50! DX7? Don't even think about it.
If I was asked to recommend a synth to someone who's new to the vintage synth game, I'd pick the DW-8000 without hesitation.
Thanks for the review and please keep them coming, they're all very interesting and useful.
Thank you! Great feedback on the DW8000. I’ll have to revisit.
I agree but after programming my two for years (one with turbo) and getting great stuff, I loaded the factory banks just for fun. I found them to be better than I remembered. I always liked the Smokey dark lushness of the 8000.
The Korg DSS1 has the same filter.
I understand people not getting these - It’s not very well made, especially it’s cheapo lack of real time controls & it’s midi spec is crap & the factory patches are rubbish....BUT to me it also sounds extremely good and has that rare quality of “character”- personally I think it’s a great synth & best of the hybrids (& touch above the the K3, way better sounding than the ESQ)!! why Korg doesn’t do “Roland”😀 & capitalise on his history and bring out a modern equivalent is beyond me ........ (& no the Modwave isn’t it due to different filter and oscillator models)...
Very clever editing structure, no frills. Wish it had Fm and Ring Mod parameters but it sounds fantastic anyway.
AND OH!! : it can be hacked to contain more banks with more custom single cycle waveforms!!!
How can it be hacked for that? Any tutorial or prompt I should search for?
@@dannymolns3573
It was from a guy who showed here on UA-cam the results of his work. But it wrote he is not interested in sharing how he did, keeping me and some other guys drooling for it....😢
@@dannymolns3573
Anyway this is the link for the beast. He hacked the rom in order to put lots of extra single cycle waveforms.
There is a cool page from him on the web but it gives only general infos, not the way for a do-it-yourself...
ua-cam.com/video/XyQyGtIZbSk/v-deo.htmlsi=pr196KoJq_oJI6PQ
I mean the first patches were epic.. analog filter.. full keyboard. I'll take this over the new Modwave any day. picked mine up for 600
The Wow factor of this synth versus the CZ-1 is more immediate in the CZ-1. The onboard Chorus has a slider next to the volume, as opposed to the DW, which has a delay which requires menu diving. It's not as instantly rewarding, IMO, compared to the CZ-1. I love them both, though. The CZ is much better with bells and higher octave sounds. Much cleaner sound, at least to me.
Yes, both are great! The CZ-1 is pure-play digital from what I understand but it sounds amazing regardless.
I'd have to agree on the CZ-1 from i've heard of the DW-8000, however I did buy "Images & words" when it came out, and Kevin Moore had some great leads out of it.
Hi what’s the rackmount model of the dw8000? Thx
EX8000.
In many ways, it could be argued that the Korg DW8000 was actually the first rompler with built in digital effects thanks to those 16 DWGS waveforms and the built in digital delay that also allows for chorusing, flanging and stereo doubling.
I get where you are coming from but I’d never diminish the dw as a rompler. The core waveforms are just starting points to awesomeness! I have an sy55 and I want to use it as a hockey puck. The dw is a real synth!
8 bit waveforms are not necessarily as bad as it may seem, though. Don't compare it to 8 bit music samples, complex sounds with some amount of dynamics. In this synth, the dynamics are created way after the 8bit oscillators, which produce a waveform always at full output of their 8 bit range. Simple waveforms.
Now, that being said - there was actually a fun blind test of the song "Gang nam style" on a site, providing two versions, without naming it. One was 16bit, one 8bits of dynamics. As compression-mania of today's production go, almost no one could actually correctly tell which is which. And that's far more complex that the DW8000 raw waveforms.
I'm pretty sure that the 8bit format would have had much less chance of evading identification with, say, Beethoven's 5th.
This is a wonderful synth and indispensable to me. It's true that the sounds you get out of it are really unimpressive, hahaha! You need to get the Retroaktiv controller, maybe that its patch generator would give you better patches than yours 😂
Likely true! 😂😂
Get the Mustronics mod for it and really see the light.
Espen Kraft has a video with great sounds for this synth on his UA-cam channel. You can buy his presets
The interesting thing is that now people are making new patch banks for some very old synths including this one. The programming now is much better than it was back then. Many of these synths at the time featured presets that often did not really bring the best out of them but now people are really digging deep and making incredible patches. At the time I agree it may not have been much of a big deal but now it is really sounding way better. I have one and really like it a lot. Do yourself a favour and invest in some recent patch banks for it. You wont regret it and you will be really surprised.
The artifacts are where its at. ❤
I was there . Yeah I’m old. It did predate the esq. (I have both… bought my Korg new as a birthday present when I was a kid) . It failed on me last year. Think it needs re capped. In my opinion it’s way more versatile than the esq… but the esq with its cartridges is more tame. For those who push the korg outside the envelope… it’s one of the best bang for the buck instruments ever made. With external midi controllers and updated patches it can do stupid shit. I love my Esq… but the dw is the real og of synths!
You guys website doesn't exist????
Im having a problem with the eproms but I've just discovered an upgrade.
It does clock to an external sequencer i was using it with the msq700 as master.
Seems to me they were trying to compete with the new wave of digital synths. AKA, DX-7, M-1 and D-50. Some of the presets reflect this. Analog had become passe, an the public wanted bright, tinkly, etc. Personally, I love mine. Dark, deep, pad machine. Some compare it to the ESQ-1, but I dunno. I mean, the structure is the same, but as far as I'm concerned they are 2 different animals. Love the ESQ-1, too, BTW. Funny, I've got a growing stable of "hybrids", and even an all analog vintage synth (AX-73). They all have the parameter (menu diving) method of programming which I find quite simple and intuitive.
DWGS waveforms from Korgs classic DW-8000 is in the micro korg
These can start getting costly and troublesome with repairs as with the Poly 800's. I've had a fair number of mid 80's Korg synths breaking down quite severely over the past 20 years. Nice sounding instruments still.
1 st rule is do not place mid 80s korg synths upright against a wall for long time since these start to flex
@@cnfuzz I did do that! That'll be my fault then.
I feel like a Casio CZ 3000 would we be I better buy
Also the arpegiator is unlike any other it glisses depending on the order you play the notes.
Yes you def need to learn how to program it but thanks for trying.
You have to also take into account how it sits in the mix.
Fair point!
I have found that with its 16 waves and programmable simple EQ per patch, the DW-8000 can sit very well in a mix.
where are these relatively modest resale prices you reference these days? I see broken ones asking $3-400, and working ones people asking $700+. Pre 2020 price hike they were reasonable.
They do sound great, but I am not sure how paying that much for an almost 40 year old digital synthesizer is better then getting the multitude of modern Digital or even full analog offerings around that price range makes sense.
I scooped one for 450 but that was 2 years ago.. I think they've caught on quite a bit since then.. a lot of the retro gear has spiked
The 9nly problem 8 had when 8t was runn8ng was that it didnt want to clock as a slave i had it to clock as a master and the wavestation as a slave.
I think the DW 8000 sounds okay. Even better than okay. But the Esq1 kills it dead. 4 assignable EGs, 3LFOs, 3 osc per voice with hard sync and AM. The Korg filter sounds good, but the Curtis filter is in the 80s. Plus the ESQ1 sequencer is incredible. I would not mind DW8000 in my collection but I will never part with my ESQ1.
The DW6000 came first but no one ever seems to remember it.
This is true - in my mind, I’m lumping them together because they’re practically the same and came out so close together but you are correct.
@@asoundlab They sound very different, i would say that DW6000 is much brighter sounding synth.
Do you know what’s different internally? I’ll have to do a side by side now... :)
DW6000 had chorus rather than delay and no aftertouch. I nearly bought a DW6000, but really wanted the aftertouch and digital delay.
@@asoundlab the wave choices are slightly different on the dw6000 , it doesnt even support velocity over midi , the are a lot cheaper 2nd hand but the same soundcharacter is there if you can live without the velocity
It doesn’t use the digits 0 and 9!!??
This Synth is far from overrated although it might be overpriced on the used market but then all vintage synths are IMO. I owned this synth from 1985 when it first came out to about 1995 when I sold it. Honestly I wish I still had it because it sounds great. Your demo doesn't do it justice partly because you can't play very well (no offense). I suggest that anybody interested in this synth listen to any of the other great demos and reviews on UA-cam. Because an overwhelming majority of people disagree with you then I have to believe your opinion isn't relevant.
I made a recording with mine before it died.
Well to be fair , it seems whoever programmed these sounds really didn't know what they were doing. This synth has a great sound when you get to tap into it's true character. Most of what I hear here is brittle and thin. This thing can be so fat and warm ! Totally misrepresented .
I have one...sort of.
I owned a DW8000 for many years but didn't appreciate its capabilities. I heard some amazing patches by a guy on UA-cam that made me realize that I had misjudged it. I learned to program on a Prophet 5 and was looking for more real instrument sounds when I owned the DW8000. It wasn't good at emulating those. Anyone who bases their opinion of the value of this instrument on the factory patches is going to be underwhelmed. Don't base your opinion on the lame patches used in this video. They are lifeless and boring!
I Hate it when an arpeggiator is turned on.
this guy lol. u a Texas boy? Hmm.
Every synth sounds horrible in your video... anyway, I prefer ESQ-1 over this, and this over Kawai K3.
This was my second synth in the mid 80s. It was ok for the time but it was just an average keyboard IMHO