The fact you called it elvish when Tolkien decided it’s dwarven and elven not dwarfish and elvish makes me feel doubtful how up to date this is with his language
To be honest, I don't know myself, in the videos I sometimes say Elven, but otherwise I follow the general consensus. Thanks for the info, I'll look into it
@@Artreii in some of his earlier works he said elvish but I think once he started publishing and the editors kept trying to change dwarven to dwarfish he and he stubbornly corrected them because it was grammatically more sound to say dwarven I think that’s when he finalized his decision on elven too, not too sure but I know final decision was elven
Rowling: Has a good idea, writes a book Riordan: Has a good idea, writes a book Tolkien: Creates a language, thinks it needs a world, creates a world, thinks it needs a story, writes a book
No no no, he created the entire story just so he could write in an Alabama joke and make it less creepy than it actually is by making it technically more creepy, I'm of course talking about Finwë's descendants Arwen and Aragorn. They are technically cousins by the English system of relatives, aka the 1st cousin x removed thingy... Well Arwen and Aragorn are 1st cousin 90+ generations removed. Due to her being an old hag multiple times over. Aka she's 2700 years old when he first met her... he was 20... that's 135 times older than he was... then when Aragorn was 50 he bethrothed Arwen... she died aged 2901 after being married to Aragorn for 122 years. The languages were just a bonus.
@@livedandletdie You do know that it was very much common in the old times, especially among the ruling classs? Alabama joke just because they perpetuated this habbit in the us? I'm not even sure if people across europe were even aware of what's happening in this insignificant state and if I can guess nobody really cared.
I am a Welsh learner and it´s absolutely amazing the similarities this has with Welsh. Welsh sounds like Sindarin! Or better said, Sindarin sounds like Welsh! This is why I´m learning Welsh in fact. :D
Did you know Welsh language has much in common with the original Hebrew? Some entire phrases are even strikingly similar. It's amazing, and history is not being taught about which people's moved where at what time. ❤️🔥
All right, I appreciate the effort. I would like to offer a little constructive criticism. First, in actual fact , one would never say 'hi' in Sindarin. The Elves are way too formal for that. However, there was a short greeting, derived from the verb "suilanna-"(to greet/to give greetings), which was 'suilannad' or 'suil'. That is the closest to "hi" that the Elves would ever get. The word "A" is a sort of vocative particle that, in many ways, could be translated as a greeting, such as "hail". It is due to the fact that "A, Elbereth Gilthoniel" is translated as "O, Elbereth the Star-kindler" sometimes and, at other times, it is translated as "Hail, Elbereth the Star-kindler". It is quite opposite to "hi", which is very informal; it's quite formal as a greeting. Second, the word "met" is the past participle of the verb "to meet". In Sindarin, this is "govad-". To form the past participle in Sindarin, one adds the suffix "-nen" to the stem of the verb. This would make it become "govannen", after a few, well-documented, phonetic and morphological changes. The G is never attached to the rest of the word by an apostrophe. You mentioned that you aren't so well versed in Sindarin pronunciation. Very well. The diphthong "AE" is actually never pronounced as /ey/ but as an Italian or a Spaniard would say them: /ae/. That is: a short /a/ sound (as in "cut") and a short /e/ sound (as in "pen"), pronounced quickly one after the other. Third, the next thing we need to talk about is the second person singular verb endings. There is a lot that is actually unknown but it seems that the pronoun "you" (sing.) Sindarin has two precise forms: a colloquial one (ce, ci), and a formal one (la, le). The first form is a subjective one (used as the subject of the sentence) and the second one is the objective form (mainly used as the direct object of the sentence). The form that is placed at the end of a verb to be the person verb ending, then, would be "-ch" for the colloquial and "-l" for the formal. Thus, "Pedil Edhellen?" is properly formulated. It all depends with whom one is speaking, though, and how formal you want to be with the person. Asking your best friend the aforementioned question would be very cold. It would be best to ask him or her: "Pedich Edhellen?" Fourth, I do not know where it is written that Sindarin has borrowed any words from Quenya. The Sindars abhorred that language and forbade the Noldor to ever speak it, shortly after they arrived in Middle Earth. This was due to the Kinslaying at Alqualonde. It is very, very improbable that "nai" was used as a word for "maybe". I do not know what word should be used. Maybe, we ought to coin it. Fifth, "gohena", as a verb, actually means "to forgive". It is used like "excuse" in "Excuse me". This is what "Goheno nin" actually means. It is not used to say how sorry you are but to excuse yourself, such as when you need to pass very close to some other person, or when you would like to be allowed through. In the Etymologies, there is a word for "sorrow"; this is is "hiraeth". Thus, I would think that "sorry" would be something derived from that. One should note, here, that a common mistake that is found in many sites on the Internet is to use the word "nîn" with the Imperatives to mean "me" or "to me". I can only find record of the word with the circumflex when it is used as a noun to mean "a tear", as an adjective of quality to mean "wet" or when it is a possessive pronoun/adjective, meaning "mine/my". Instead, I find that the proper objective version of the personal pronoun "I" (me), is "nin" -- without the circumflex. Therefore, in the end, it would be "Goheno nin". Sixth, the sound of CH in Sindarin is like the sound of CH in the German word "doch". Also, in verb negatives the "ú" is usually attached to the verb and this is why it becomes "úchenion". The prefix "ú-" causes lenition (or soft mutation) on the verb root, which is "henia-" plus the personal ending "-on". Seventh, it is attested that the Interrogative Pronoun "man" corresponds to the English "what". As much as I have looked around, I cannot find a Tolkien use of the word "how". I believe that the word "manen" was the official translation at some point. So, that is correct. However with "ci", we go back to the earlier explanation about the colloquial use and the formal one. If Legolas asked you earlier if you spoke Elvish in a formal way, why would you now ask him how he were doing in such an informal manner? Has time passed since the first question? Maybe, as I said, it's all about circumstances. One should use the informal question you mentioned in your video only if the context warrants it. Otherwise, it would be better to say: "Manen le?" As far as "maer" is concerned, this adjective is usually used for physical things that are in good condition or that are useful. I suppose one could extend it to non-living, abstract things. Although, I've never seen it used (correctly) for people. A lot of people used it as the answer to "How are you doing/How are you" in the past. Maybe it's all right to do so now. Once again, the AE is not pronounced /ey/. Eight, now let's talk about "Avaro naeth". Honestly I don't know where you got this phrase from but it doesn't seem to be canon Tolkien and rather (and I hate using this word because it's so divisive) "fanfictiony". It seems that in translating "don't worry" literally from English, one has made a couple of mistakes. The word "Avaro" is a Quenya word that identifies one of the Avars, the Elves who never travelled across the ocean to Aman and Valinor. Instead, in Sindarin, the word "avo" is a negative adverb that is used to form the negative Imperative Mood, such as in a command like "don't worry". Then, there is the word "naeth" which is the word for biting or gnashing one's teeth. It has a figurative meaning of "woe". It can be correctly extrapolated that in Sindarin one would most likely use the phrase "don't gnash your teeth" to mean "don't worry". This would be, then: "Avo naeth". I should also mention that the word "av/ava" in Quenya ended up meaning "without or lacking". This also makes one see the cognate relationship and similarity in meaning. Nine, now we come to "thank you". Just like I've said before, it depends whom you're thanking and the circumstances which you both (or all) find yourselves in. I've found little evidence that "len" be a proper Sindarin word. It would make sense that if "nin" were the proper accusative or dative form of "I", then "len" should also be. On the other hand, we have the "Hymn to Elbereth" where they say: "Fanuilos, le linnathon". This is translated as "Everwhite, I will sing to thee." This gives enough proof that the form "len" isn't the best form for the formal pronoun. What about the informal one, then? I've seen plenty of variations: from "Ci hannon" to "Cen hannon" and also some lenited forms: "Gi hannon" and "Gen hannon". The very last one, "Gen hannon" is the most common and probably the most correct one to use. For some reason, Sindarin lenites all these small common words for no stated reason -- it just does!! In the end, a formal thank you should be "Le hannon" and an informal one should be "Gen hannon". A note on pronunciation -- Sindarin is a language where you pronounce everything that you read, like Italian or German. Don't give people the wrong idea by saying that they should pronounce it like "Lennon". The H ought to be pronounced. Ten. One should be weary of translating literally from English and vice versa. "An ngell nin" is the translation of "for my pleasure". First of all, this is the first time I hear of this phrase. Second, it's not that it's absolutely off the mark but the word "gell" means "triumph". I strongly doubt that it could be used for the very same purpose as "please". Besides, the English interjection "Please" comes from the French phrase of courtesy "S'il te/vous plait" (If it please you -- a subjunctive construction) that has been shortened to "Please" in true Anglo-Saxon fashion (we, lazy bums). Therefore, to say in Elvish "for pleasing ME" is rather unlikely. If anything, it would be "for pleasing you" or "for your pleasure". What I did find is the word "glas" that means "joy or happiness". This could be used to create a formula such as: "For your happiness" to be used as "Please". This would become: "An glas lîn". Should there be also an informal counterpart? I don't think so. I believe "please" is always a formal or courteous word and the second person pronoun should always be formal. Also, I need to add that, since the pronominal marker here is a possessive adjective, the word must get the circumflex. Eleven, the way to say "good-bye" In Sindarin is most definitely not "galu", which is a word that means "good fortune or wealth". The Elves in Tolkien's Middle Earth were a noble and formal people and they spoke a noble language. So, a salutation of farewell would most likely be formal, even among close friends. "Novaer" literally means "be well" and is most likely the salutation used the most in informal speech. A more formal salutation is "Cuio vaer", which means "live well" and it is probably used for a more definitive good-bye where the people involved would likely not see each other for a very long time, if ever again. Thank you for making this video, anyways. I hope I gave you information that you may find useful for future videos. BTW, epicly actually spells epically, even though we don't pronounce all the letters -- I know, it's crazy. Novaer, mellon nîn.
First of all, wow, thank you so much, it's super useful. I'm gonna heart your comment so more people can see it. I'm gonna analyze it and it's definitely gonna help me in future videos. Epically ;)
Mad respect for taking the time to learn the language this well. It's crazy when you learn most of the lore, think you know everything, then check out the languages. I'm just starting to learn Sindarin and I can already see that this is not a short-term goal.
You are right the video has plenty issues, however your comment contains some as well, so I hope you are not opposed to some constructive criticism as well. - "First, in actual fact , one would never say 'hi' in Sindarin." - I disagree, but that's a matter of personal taste, neither I nor you have evidence. Remember however that Sindarin is also the tongue of the nobility of Gondor, so the argument "Elves are to formal" is not conclusive. - 'suil' - Doesn't seem too unreasonable but is not attested and could be potentially mistaken for Goldogrin 'suil' "daughter" - "govad-" - Tolkien had different ideas about the structure of 'mae govannen' over the course of his life. One is simply 'mae + gobad-nen' However Tolkien also considered that 'mae' should cause lenition, so he revised his idea to 'mae + ci + govannen > Mae g’ovannen' "Well (art) thou met". That's where the apostrophe version comes from. However 'govad - ' would need to come from the root BAT "step" which might have been replaced by later PAT with the same meaning (which would lead to 'gobannen'). Therefore I favor a third explanation with 'cova- -> covannen -> lenition govannen' from the root KOM "gather, collect", so I agree about the "no apostrophe", just for different reasons and wanted to point out that it _was_ an Idea from Tolkien. You can read the full madness here: academy.realelvish.net/2021/09/01/conceptual-history-of-mae-govannen-well-met/ - "second person singular verb endings: There is a lot that is actually unknown" Our problem is that we have too many paradigms, not too few, see this discussion: eldamo.org/content/words/word-1090138655.html - "ce vs ci, la vs le as subjective vs objective" - This is a strange interpretation, I can't find any attestation 'ce' and 'la' - "-ch as the verb ending for ci" - There is no phonetic development that would justify this, we would expect the 'c' to soften to 'g' in this environment, ad we have examples for it 'car- > cerig' "you do" and 'gala- > galog' "you grow" from PE17/132. 'agorech' in the Túrin wrapper could be an dual form "what have we done" -> 'pedig edhellen?' - "Sindars" the word is 'Q. Sinda, pl. Sindar'. "Sindars" sounds horrible - "Maybe" One theory is that 'aen' from 'i sennui Panthael estathar aen' could be a cognate of Quenya 'nai' (I think that's one of CFH's theories). Of course that means it is the subjunctive marker not a good response to a question. - "Goheno nin, forgive me" - I find "forgive me, I don't understand" to be something perfectly fine to say. I my opinion it's far safer than deriving something from "sorrow" where you will almost certainly produce "sorrowfully" instead of "sorry" - "nîn" also, its the plural of 'nen' "water", cf. Nîn-in-Eilph, but yes not "me", no circumflex. - "úchenion" Nothing wrong with that, just a reminder that LĀ- vs. Ū-negation is still an open problem, so it might also be 'lóchenion'. - "manen, how" - That's a Quenya word, the instrumental particle 'ma' declined in the instrumental case so "by means of what -> how" as in "how did get here". This doesn't make sense in Sindarin, which doesn't have this case and one suggestion was 'na(n) + man -> naman, with what' for Sindarin. However those words can't work in "how are you", "**by what are you?" is nonsensical, such a phrase can't be translated literally, especially as it isn't even meant as an invitation to share ones feelings, just something to say because you are polite and different languages have vastly different strategies for politeness, so no 'manan le' either. - "maer for good/useful physical things" - Actually we don't have examples of 'maer' in a phrase in Sindarin, the only examples we have are from drafts earlier in Tolkiens life when the Welsh-style language was still called Goldogrin or Noldorin respectively and they are primarily for humans, e. g. 'i weg mór, the good man' or 'bessin moron, good wifes'. With the Quenya cognates I see where you are coming from, 'mára, good/proper' doesn't seem like a particularly good fit, keep in mind however that Sindarin has a tendency to produce homonyms, 'maira, admirable/excellent/precious/splendid/sublime' comes from a form that would produce 'maer' in Sindarin as well. - "canon Tolkien vs fanfiction" - everything above besides quoting 'mae govannen' directly was already fanfiction with as a nicer term Neo-Sindarin and there is nothing wrong with that as long as we sirive to come close to what Tolkien wrote. - Avars >> Avari, see Sindar - "avo naeth" doesn't work because 'naeth' is a noun and the imperative particle needs a verb, its the equivalent of "don't woe" instead of "don't worry". I can't think of a good alternative right now though. I wouldn't worry too much about the teeth-gnashing part, we have 'sigil Elu-naeth, necklace of the woe of Elu' with no particular connotation to teeth attested. - "le vse len. 'le linnathon'gives enough proof that the form "len" isn't the best form for the formal pronoun" - That's only a lack of creativity on your part ;) one explanation could be that object pronouns induce nasal mutation on their following verb, cf. 'in + lais -> i-lais'. We actually get a explanation from Tolkien that 'le' is an "absolutive" form (so not the standard object form!). Also consider that 'A Elbereth' is a song so it could contain non-standard poetic word choices to fit the meter. I don't claim to know how Sindarin's object pronouns work, just that '-n' marks the object is the best guess we currently have. - "For some reason, Sindarin lenites all these small common words for no stated reason" - That could be just standard object lenition, i. e. the same Phenomenon that turns 'peth, word' to 'afagrant beth, he spoke words' with out a special rule for function words. Its "I[subj.] thank you[obj.]" after all. - Now to "thank you" proper. I'd say 'annon allen/echin/annen' for formal/informal/plural with dative pronouns modeled after 'annin, to me' and 'ammen, to us'. Luckily, someone else explained the details already: www.elfdict.com/phrases/1-sindarin/56-how_to_thank_in_sindarin - "An glas lîn" - I would have expected a definite article here, cf. 'i enneth lín, i innas lín, ered e-mbar nîn...' - "The Elves in Tolkien's Middle Earth were a noble and formal people and they spoke a noble language" - Again, they have an informal pronoun series so they had almost certainly different registers to draw from. As you, too, are quite interested in the Eldarin languages, I'm curios: Do you know Vinyë Lambengolmor? It's a fairly active discord server where the community (including figures like Roman Rausch, Tamas Ferencz, Paul Strack and many others) gathers these days. _elen sílatha aen erim-men lín_ "may a star shine upon your path"
Two facts. Number one: The Hobbit was published in 1932, so most people were most likely still using a horse and carriage. And Number two: back when Tolkien created LotR and The Hobbit, people laughed at him for how “stupid” and “silly” his books were, because no one actually read fiction back then, they only read nonfiction and thought all fiction was stupid. It’s hard to believe now that J.R.R. Tolkien was laughed at for this masterpiece. R.I.P., Tolkien 😔
No one read fiction back then???? Where did you get that idea from??? They read A LOT MORE more fiction than we do, from the most serious down to penny novels! Remember, they did not yet have TV.
@@fundeztroyer thanks for the nice reply. I'm afraid I must tell you that I am convinced your Dad was wrong on this, or perhaps he was talking of something else. It must have applied to him and is group, but it was definitely not true of society in general. Novels were in great vogue, more than today.
I like how I’ve failed multiple language classes throughout college and high school for Spanish French and Japanese, but I will be incredibly concentrated on learning elvish and khuzdul.
Thanks so much for this upload! It’s super helpful and will be fun to try to learn Elvish during quarantine (even though I’m supposed to be doing Spanish homework lol). I hope everyone is doing safe and well during this time!
Yesterday I watched Hobit 3 ,I saw Lord of the Rings all of the movies and Hobit too for first time in my life and now I try to find elfish language lolll I like how it sounds😊😊😊😊💓🧚🧚🧚🧚🧚
You mean in Middle-Earth, as the Elves in Valinor were not bilingual. Actually, the majority of Elves in Middle-Earth were also not bilingual; except for the Noldor, who were native speakers of Quenya but also learned Sindarin as a second language. All Grey Elves (Sindar), Silvan Elves and Green Elves spoke Sindarin. Very few of them actually spoke Quenya.
1:17 It always enraged Sauron that he had to use Tengwar to inscribe the One Ring with its enchantment. Both because he hated the elves more than perhaps even Melkor; and he was jealous the language he made couldn't be used for something so fine, delicate, and valuable.
The word *_Sindarin_* is not derived from Quenya. It is, in fact, a Quenya word, an adjective meaning "Grey-Elven", "Grey-Elvish" or "related to the Grey Elves or Sindar", and can also be used as a noun referring to the language of the Grey Elves. It is not known how the Grey-Elves or Sindar called their own language. They likely used the adjective *_Edhellen_* , which is an adjective meaning "Elvish", "Elven" or "related to the Elves" as a noun to refer to their language. If you need a Sindarin term which refers precisely to the Grey Elvish tongue, it is possible to coin terms such as *_Thindren_* "Grey Elvish", *_lam-i-Thindrim_* or *_Thindellam_* , both meaning "language/tongue of the Grey Elves". The Quenya equivalent to *_Edhellen_* is *_Eldarin_* "Elven", "Elvish", "related to the Elves", also used as a un umbrella term referring to any or all the languages spoken by the Eldar (like Quenya or Sindarin) - the word *_Eldar_* refers precisely to the Elves who started the March, following Oromë towards Aman , but is often used simply as a word for "Elves", singular *_Elda_* "Elf" (specially one of those who went on the March), Sindarin *_Edhel_* , plural *_Edhil_* . Another Sindarin word for "Elf" is *_Eledh_* , plural *_Elidh_* .
The Sindarin personal adjective, or possessive adjective, for "your" is *lín* , written with an acute accent (rather than a circumnlex: *lîn* ), which holds for all other personal adjectives. The acute accent in *nín* "my" was once regarded as a slanted macron which Tolkien would have accidentally written this way (a macron is an horizontal stroke written above a vowel to indicate that this vowel is pronounced long), because all other personal adjectives attested in _Sauron Defeated_ have a circunflex. But it was noted that, if the acute accent was confirmed, this adjective would be probably enclitic (that is, placed after the word it modifies. And the acute accent was then confirmed (Vinyar Tengwar 44/22). Plus, in the Appendix E of _The Lord of the Rings_ , Tolkien wrote that, in the transcription of Sindarin, long vowels in unstressed monosyllables are written with an acute accent. *Lín* was attested in Vinyar Tengwar 44/24, in two lines of a Sindarin translation of the Lord's prayer, *no aer i eneth lín* “hallowed be thy name”, *tolo i arnad lín* “thy kingdom come” and *caro den i innas lín* “thy will be done”. *Nín* was also attested in said translation: *Ae Adar nín i vi Menel* “Our Father who art in Heaven”, but is used for “our” rather than “my” ( *mín* "our" was the expected personal adjective to be used here, which would then change *vín* through soft mutation, or lenition, since it would directly follow the noun it modifies: *Ae Adar vín i vi Menel* ) - *ae* is the interjection "o!" (which is not on the "original"/English version of the prayer) and *i* is, here, the indefinite pronoun “who, what, which, that” (undeclinable - used both as a singular and a plural pronoun); but it is used mainly as the definite article “the”, singular (plural form *in* ). Supposing that Gil-galad is asked about his name, the answer to *man i eneth lín?* "what is your name?" (word for word: "what (is) the name your?") may be either *i eneth nín Gil-galad* "my name is Gil-galad" (word for word: "the name my (is) Gil-galad") or *Gil-galad i eneth nín* "Gil-galad is my name" (word for word: "Gil-galad (is) the name my"). Both word orders can occur in Sindarin.
i just love that this fandom is coming back (still going strong??) because 13year old me would've killed for this video series and 20 year old me is very happy about this ahh
Despite the fact that Sindarin was the everyday Elvish language spoken in Middle-Earth (where the story of _The Lord of the Rings_ takes place), the Elvish language mostly featured on the LotR's books is Quenya, spoken by the Elves of Aman/Valinor, instead (not those of Middle-Earth). The reason for this is evidently that most of Elvish lines on the books are actually music/poetry, not everyday conversations ─ in Middle-Earth, in the Second Age (the LotR's story takes place in the Third Age), the everyday usage of Quenya was forbidden by Elu Thingol, king of the Sindar in Doriath, because he discovered that those who spoke that language, the Noldor (who came from Aman in self-exile), had slayed many Elves of their borthers of the Teleri clan. Thus, in Middle-Earth (not in Aman), Quenya had its usage limited to music/poetry and ceremonies (and also magic spells) and became something like an Elvish equivalent of Latin (an "Elvish Latin", as it is sometimes described outside Tolkien's mythology). Besides, there is also the fact that, among all languages created by Tolkien, Quenya was the one that he beloved the most; so, I think he probably wanted Quenya to be featured most of the time, rather than Sindarin. But, in the movies, most of the lines in Elvish consist of common, everyday conversations and the like; so, naturally, Sindarin is featured more often.
Sindarin is beautiful... truly beautiful. 😍 💖 I absolutely love this language. J.R.R. Tolkien= the second best British language genius of the 20th century right after Reynold A. Nicholson 🤗🤗🤗👏👏👏👏👏👏
You can check out my second episode of Elvish, there are some great resources in the description, maybe you'll find it there. I'm not planning on doing an episode soon, so check those out ;)
An amazing video! Loved it. Also am I the only one who feels that in the movies, Aragorn says something like "hanun len" for "thank you" and not "len hanun" like said in the video?
First of all, thank you, and Aragorn may have said "Hannon le", as it is also a version of "Thank you" (actually even more popular than "Len Hannon"), so yeah, I guess you're right ;)
Also considering the materials we have now access to but were unavailable to David Solo during the time the movies were made, thank you should probably be annon allen, cf. www.elfdict.com/phrases/1-sindarin/56-how_to_thank_in_sindarin
Heii, a question: Once Haldir said "Legolas son of Thranduil" what is it in Sindarin when you write it and what would be mean "Daughter of Thranduil?" I would be very happy if you or someone can help me. Thank you already!😊
In Sindarin the word for son is “ion” (ee-on” so when its used to say “son of [name]” its put at the end of the father’s first name. Since Thranduil is Legolas’s dad’s name its written: Thranduilion. For daughters the same rule applies but the Sindarin word for it is “iel” (ee-el). For the phrase “daughter of Thranduil” it would be “Thranduiliel”. Also in Elvish customs they don’t use the mother’s name (i forget why). hope this helps!
*Mae g'ovannen* translates "thou art well met" (word for word: "well (art) thou met"), with *ci* for "thou", "you" and *govannen* for "met", which are then lenited to *gi* and *'ovannen* due to the preceding adverb *mae* "well", and *gi* loosing its final *-i* because the following word, *'ovannen* , begins in a vowel. But it seems that the greeting in its final conception is *mae govannen* (without the apostrophe between the *g* and the following *o* ), translated "well met", with the passive participle "met" being either *covannen* (verbal stem either *cova-* or *covad-* ), then lenited to *govannen* due to the preceding *mae* "well", or an unlenited *govannen* (verb stem *govad-* ).
Damn, guess I lucked out with this because my name already sounds like it could be elven (my name’s Rowan, also fitting that it’s the name of a type of tree lol)
What they did very well is making up a fictional language and have it sound like it's real.. like they don't just use it to show that it exists but like it's an actual spoken language. As much as i love the dragon age series, i don't know what their elvhen is based on but whenever they use it it's out of place and it' s like they just , well use it to have it. They rarely speak whole sentences ,and if they do it soubds like they just read it ,not speaking it.. you kniw what i mean🤔
Just to get things straight here... Arwen was 2700 years when she met Aragorn. Arwen's father is Elrond, Elrond's brother is Elros, Elros was the great great grand father of Valandil, Valandil's descendant Elendil was the first high king of the Dúnedain, Elendil's son Isildur, the guy who chopped off the ring on Sauron's finger, well he Isildur sired the kings of Arnor, Eärendur became the last ruler of Arnor, as his son became the king or Arthedain, which was just a region of Arnor as his brothers ruled the other regions, well Amlaith's 14th generation descendant Arvedui, was the last king of Arthedain, his son Aranarth became the first Chieftain of the Dúnedain, well his 14th generation ancestor Arathorn II was the last Chieftain of the Dúnedain if we don't consider his son who didn't really do a great job as a chieftain of the Dúnedain, because his son was lazy and went questing with an elf a dwarf, 4 hobbits and the current ruler of Gondor Steward Benethor II's son Boromir, oh and a Ainur(Maiar) named Olórin, which is an immortal person with magical abilities... The party of 9 traveled for a bit then became a party of 8 as it's illegal to cast Sean Bean in a role he survives in, eventually almost 3 movies have passed and Arathorn II's useless son manages to marry Arwen his cousin more than 90 generations removed, and become the king of Arnor and Gondor, so what I'm saying is, that Aragorn boned his cousin alabama style and had a son with her. J.R.R Tolkien must have been really bored trying to figure out how to get a man and an half-elf to be cousins and lovers without it being to incestuous. It's basically an extremely bad wattpad story but with an extreme amount of lore added just to make it seem less creepy.
@@Artreii The typography and the words are not based on welsh at all, but the sounds and pronunciations are almost exactly the same. Wales is a small country, so it's nice to see our national identity in something mainstream lmfao
Avaro naeth is now slipping into every chance I get to replace "No worries" when someone bumps into me on the bus and apologises. Prob end up being Liv Tyler and I'll resort to U Chenion. Wished you were my Modern Foreign Languages teacher at school. You have a fun easy way to remember phrases and pronunciation. My languages teacher taught us a bit of French and German in the hopes we'd "get by" on a trip to Belgium back in 04'. Yeah they spoke neither and was Flanders and they politely smiled and in perfect English asked what the hell we asked for.(well that's not true, they did speak it, but as with all languages it has nuance, it was like we walked in talking in Newcastle accents to a Londoner in UK terms) hardest part is tense. Past, present, future. I'd ask for something I'd done.
First of all, great habit of saying Elvish words haha, great story, but yeah, I mean, in my French class like only 3 people were actually learning something. I don't think it's necessarily the fault of teachers, but definitely there's no cooperation in learning in most schools. That's why I think everyone should make it fun
Exclusive Elvish course - www.skool.com/elvish-mafia/about
Artreii thank you for this I got really inspired! UWU
The fact you called it elvish when Tolkien decided it’s dwarven and elven not dwarfish and elvish makes me feel doubtful how up to date this is with his language
To be honest, I don't know myself, in the videos I sometimes say Elven, but otherwise I follow the general consensus. Thanks for the info, I'll look into it
@@Artreii in some of his earlier works he said elvish but I think once he started publishing and the editors kept trying to change dwarven to dwarfish he and he stubbornly corrected them because it was grammatically more sound to say dwarven I think that’s when he finalized his decision on elven too, not too sure but I know final decision was elven
@@ArtreiiI Have A Question: “WHAT’S the Elvish Word for ‘Domain’?
Rowling: Has a good idea, writes a book
Riordan: Has a good idea, writes a book
Tolkien: Creates a language, thinks it needs a world, creates a world, thinks it needs a story, writes a book
And that's why I love him...
Rowling today: Has a bad idea, ruins some books.
(JK)
SquidLovely Three books, four if u count the hobbit
He has written many books
Rowling got the idea from a friend for harry potter it wasn't her who made it up
Tolkein literally created middle earth so he'd have a place to stick all the languages he made! Amazing
Yeah, I could not believe it when I found that out, but it just made me respect him even more
That's so cool
I'd recommend watching the movie 'Tolkien', it is just so great!!
No no no, he created the entire story just so he could write in an Alabama joke and make it less creepy than it actually is by making it technically more creepy, I'm of course talking about Finwë's descendants Arwen and Aragorn. They are technically cousins by the English system of relatives, aka the 1st cousin x removed thingy... Well Arwen and Aragorn are 1st cousin 90+ generations removed. Due to her being an old hag multiple times over. Aka she's 2700 years old when he first met her... he was 20... that's 135 times older than he was... then when Aragorn was 50 he bethrothed Arwen... she died aged 2901 after being married to Aragorn for 122 years.
The languages were just a bonus.
@@livedandletdie You do know that it was very much common in the old times, especially among the ruling classs? Alabama joke just because they perpetuated this habbit in the us? I'm not even sure if people across europe were even aware of what's happening in this insignificant state and if I can guess nobody really cared.
“Think about meeting Legolas and having dinner with him”
*Okay so every fanfic I read when I was 14*
Yeah, I didn't mean to do fanfictions, but I guess they work well ;)
Bilbo: "I've thought about the ending to my book"
aye, i could do that
Oh my gosh yes XD
HAHA LMAO MEEEE
One does not simply learn elvish in 8 minutes
Oh that's true, and so good too
False. We do it all the time.
True
I understood that reference 😂
@@alinailie1472 and I understood THAT reference lol
"Welcome to English class, my name is professor Bloom."
Online class of English and Sindarin at the same time ;)
@@Artreii Oh, no, this is proper English for me, lol. :D
*wheeze*
Professor Bloom lmao we know no such person. We only know professor Greenleaf
Professor Bloom? Since when did Orlando arrive?
*When u suck at learning languages but u try to learn Elvish*
😅
Edit: this is the most likes I've ever had haha thank u
Hey, at least you don't have to learn every single verb in Elvish to impress some people ;)
@@Artreii haha then I should quit learning other languages and focus on Elvish... At least it's so unique 😄😄😍
I barely mastered English, living in England and have an orchard of languages to pick from Welsh, Gaelic, Latin... Nah I'll study Elvish
@@joegrimes9232 haha good luck with that 😉
At least I’m better at elvish...
Or I can just speak Finnish and pretend it's Quenya.
Hey, you do you ma man
lol speak welsh, pretend it's sindarin
Yes. In old english they called Finns kvens and they speaked kvenya, can you see diffrence when you say it?
@@glencoco2499 based on Finn
@@anttityykila9384 Sindarin is based off Welsh
_maer_ = "good = excellent, fair, decent"
_mael_ = "good = healthy, feeling well"
Thank you, I'm still learning :)
do you know how to speak sindarin???
TheDarkPan surely does ;)
The son of JRR Tolkien passed away today
Post in sídh* Christopher Tolkien
*That’s Sindarin for “rest in peace”
@@ANT96-x8d Thats so sad 😭
“If you say ‘len hannon’ quickly it sounds like - ”
Me: Lennon. John Lennon.
“ - Lennon.”
[fandom collision noises]
It really does tho haha
the name is Lennon , John lennon
It's *le hannon* . Also *hannon le* .
Me: I will sleep early today so I don't miss half of my online classes tomorrow...
Also me at 2am:
My video at 2 am: Hello there!
@@Artreii also me at 2am: General Kenobi!
... it’s 2:30 now 😂 I am learning Sindarin haha again.. Two years ago I actually could speak it .. But now I forgot almost everything..
LMAO SAME ME AT 4 LEARNING FREAKING SINDARIN
Me at 4 a.m 😂😂😂
I am a Welsh learner and it´s absolutely amazing the similarities this has with Welsh. Welsh sounds like Sindarin! Or better said, Sindarin sounds like Welsh! This is why I´m learning Welsh in fact. :D
Oh definitely, it blew my mind when I first discovered it, good luck with learning!
Mae o’n swnio yn Gymraeg! Dwi’n siwr na dyna lle gafo Tolkien ei ysbrydoliaeth.
I am much the same with Scott's gaelic. As far as I know Tolkien's elvish was inspired historical Welsh poems.
Same with Breton and Cornish 😄
Did you know Welsh language has much in common with the original Hebrew? Some entire phrases are even strikingly similar. It's amazing, and history is not being taught about which people's moved where at what time. ❤️🔥
Thinking about meeting Legolas makes me blush >///////
That's the feeling I was going for 😀
I want to meet Legolas
You and both lol and don’t get me started on meeting thranduil 😳
@@chelsealovesplants What if u do?
I am a girl but I don't want to be Legolases gf more like his bff.
I randomly went up to my mom one day and started speaking Sindarin and she was like, "what???"
I so hope it's true 😁
Cool she must have totally freaked out or thought you had turned into an alien
That is what life was invented for.
Would’ve been cool if she had answered in elvish 😆
me : YAY ELVISH NAME!
also me : my name is already an elvish name
And a chemist's name haha
@@Artreii Valery Legasov, what a man!
my name is actually Arwen :D
@@geezjar1235 awesome! My name is Eowyn and most people get it mixed up with Arwen haha
Lucky names realy
All right, I appreciate the effort. I would like to offer a little constructive criticism.
First, in actual fact , one would never say 'hi' in Sindarin. The Elves are way too formal for that. However, there was a short greeting, derived from the verb "suilanna-"(to greet/to give greetings), which was 'suilannad' or 'suil'. That is the closest to "hi" that the Elves would ever get.
The word "A" is a sort of vocative particle that, in many ways, could be translated as a greeting, such as "hail". It is due to the fact that "A, Elbereth Gilthoniel" is translated as "O, Elbereth the Star-kindler" sometimes and, at other times, it is translated as "Hail, Elbereth the Star-kindler". It is quite opposite to "hi", which is very informal; it's quite formal as a greeting.
Second, the word "met" is the past participle of the verb "to meet". In Sindarin, this is "govad-". To form the past participle in Sindarin, one adds the suffix "-nen" to the stem of the verb. This would make it become "govannen", after a few, well-documented, phonetic and morphological changes. The G is never attached to the rest of the word by an apostrophe.
You mentioned that you aren't so well versed in Sindarin pronunciation. Very well. The diphthong "AE" is actually never pronounced as /ey/ but as an Italian or a Spaniard would say them: /ae/. That is: a short /a/ sound (as in "cut") and a short /e/ sound (as in "pen"), pronounced quickly one after the other.
Third, the next thing we need to talk about is the second person singular verb endings. There is a lot that is actually unknown but it seems that the pronoun "you" (sing.) Sindarin has two precise forms: a colloquial one (ce, ci), and a formal one (la, le). The first form is a subjective one (used as the subject of the sentence) and the second one is the objective form (mainly used as the direct object of the sentence). The form that is placed at the end of a verb to be the person verb ending, then, would be "-ch" for the colloquial and "-l" for the formal. Thus, "Pedil Edhellen?" is properly formulated. It all depends with whom one is speaking, though, and how formal you want to be with the person. Asking your best friend the aforementioned question would be very cold. It would be best to ask him or her: "Pedich Edhellen?"
Fourth, I do not know where it is written that Sindarin has borrowed any words from Quenya. The Sindars abhorred that language and forbade the Noldor to ever speak it, shortly after they arrived in Middle Earth. This was due to the Kinslaying at Alqualonde. It is very, very improbable that "nai" was used as a word for "maybe". I do not know what word should be used. Maybe, we ought to coin it.
Fifth, "gohena", as a verb, actually means "to forgive". It is used like "excuse" in "Excuse me". This is what "Goheno nin" actually means. It is not used to say how sorry you are but to excuse yourself, such as when you need to pass very close to some other person, or when you would like to be allowed through.
In the Etymologies, there is a word for "sorrow"; this is is "hiraeth". Thus, I would think that "sorry" would be something derived from that.
One should note, here, that a common mistake that is found in many sites on the Internet is to use the word "nîn" with the Imperatives to mean "me" or "to me". I can only find record of the word with the circumflex when it is used as a noun to mean "a tear", as an adjective of quality to mean "wet" or when it is a possessive pronoun/adjective, meaning "mine/my". Instead, I find that the proper objective version of the personal pronoun "I" (me), is "nin" -- without the circumflex. Therefore, in the end, it would be "Goheno nin".
Sixth, the sound of CH in Sindarin is like the sound of CH in the German word "doch". Also, in verb negatives the "ú" is usually attached to the verb and this is why it becomes "úchenion". The prefix "ú-" causes lenition (or soft mutation) on the verb root, which is "henia-" plus the personal ending "-on".
Seventh, it is attested that the Interrogative Pronoun "man" corresponds to the English "what". As much as I have looked around, I cannot find a Tolkien use of the word "how". I believe that the word "manen" was the official translation at some point. So, that is correct. However with "ci", we go back to the earlier explanation about the colloquial use and the formal one. If Legolas asked you earlier if you spoke Elvish in a formal way, why would you now ask him how he were doing in such an informal manner? Has time passed since the first question? Maybe, as I said, it's all about circumstances. One should use the informal question you mentioned in your video only if the context warrants it. Otherwise, it would be better to say: "Manen le?"
As far as "maer" is concerned, this adjective is usually used for physical things that are in good condition or that are useful. I suppose one could extend it to non-living, abstract things. Although, I've never seen it used (correctly) for people. A lot of people used it as the answer to "How are you doing/How are you" in the past. Maybe it's all right to do so now. Once again, the AE is not pronounced /ey/.
Eight, now let's talk about "Avaro naeth". Honestly I don't know where you got this phrase from but it doesn't seem to be canon Tolkien and rather (and I hate using this word because it's so divisive) "fanfictiony". It seems that in translating "don't worry" literally from English, one has made a couple of mistakes. The word "Avaro" is a Quenya word that identifies one of the Avars, the Elves who never travelled across the ocean to Aman and Valinor. Instead, in Sindarin, the word "avo" is a negative adverb that is used to form the negative Imperative Mood, such as in a command like "don't worry". Then, there is the word "naeth" which is the word for biting or gnashing one's teeth. It has a figurative meaning of "woe". It can be correctly extrapolated that in Sindarin one would most likely use the phrase "don't gnash your teeth" to mean "don't worry". This would be, then: "Avo naeth". I should also mention that the word "av/ava" in Quenya ended up meaning "without or lacking". This also makes one see the cognate relationship and similarity in meaning.
Nine, now we come to "thank you". Just like I've said before, it depends whom you're thanking and the circumstances which you both (or all) find yourselves in. I've found little evidence that "len" be a proper Sindarin word. It would make sense that if "nin" were the proper accusative or dative form of "I", then "len" should also be. On the other hand, we have the "Hymn to Elbereth" where they say: "Fanuilos, le linnathon". This is translated as "Everwhite, I will sing to thee." This gives enough proof that the form "len" isn't the best form for the formal pronoun. What about the informal one, then? I've seen plenty of variations: from "Ci hannon" to "Cen hannon" and also some lenited forms: "Gi hannon" and "Gen hannon". The very last one, "Gen hannon" is the most common and probably the most correct one to use. For some reason, Sindarin lenites all these small common words for no stated reason -- it just does!! In the end, a formal thank you should be "Le hannon" and an informal one should be "Gen hannon". A note on pronunciation -- Sindarin is a language where you pronounce everything that you read, like Italian or German. Don't give people the wrong idea by saying that they should pronounce it like "Lennon". The H ought to be pronounced.
Ten. One should be weary of translating literally from English and vice versa. "An ngell nin" is the translation of "for my pleasure". First of all, this is the first time I hear of this phrase. Second, it's not that it's absolutely off the mark but the word "gell" means "triumph". I strongly doubt that it could be used for the very same purpose as "please". Besides, the English interjection "Please" comes from the French phrase of courtesy "S'il te/vous plait" (If it please you -- a subjunctive construction) that has been shortened to "Please" in true Anglo-Saxon fashion (we, lazy bums). Therefore, to say in Elvish "for pleasing ME" is rather unlikely. If anything, it would be "for pleasing you" or "for your pleasure". What I did find is the word "glas" that means "joy or happiness". This could be used to create a formula such as: "For your happiness" to be used as "Please". This would become: "An glas lîn". Should there be also an informal counterpart? I don't think so. I believe "please" is always a formal or courteous word and the second person pronoun should always be formal. Also, I need to add that, since the pronominal marker here is a possessive adjective, the word must get the circumflex.
Eleven, the way to say "good-bye" In Sindarin is most definitely not "galu", which is a word that means "good fortune or wealth". The Elves in Tolkien's Middle Earth were a noble and formal people and they spoke a noble language. So, a salutation of farewell would most likely be formal, even among close friends. "Novaer" literally means "be well" and is most likely the salutation used the most in informal speech. A more formal salutation is "Cuio vaer", which means "live well" and it is probably used for a more definitive good-bye where the people involved would likely not see each other for a very long time, if ever again.
Thank you for making this video, anyways. I hope I gave you information that you may find useful for future videos.
BTW, epicly actually spells epically, even though we don't pronounce all the letters -- I know, it's crazy.
Novaer, mellon nîn.
First of all, wow, thank you so much, it's super useful. I'm gonna heart your comment so more people can see it. I'm gonna analyze it and it's definitely gonna help me in future videos. Epically ;)
Wow.
I can't
Mad respect for taking the time to learn the language this well. It's crazy when you learn most of the lore, think you know everything, then check out the languages. I'm just starting to learn Sindarin and I can already see that this is not a short-term goal.
You are right the video has plenty issues, however your comment contains some as well, so I hope you are not opposed to some constructive criticism as well.
- "First, in actual fact , one would never say 'hi' in Sindarin." - I disagree, but that's a matter of personal taste, neither I nor you have evidence. Remember however that Sindarin is also the tongue of the nobility of Gondor, so the argument "Elves are to formal" is not conclusive.
- 'suil' - Doesn't seem too unreasonable but is not attested and could be potentially mistaken for Goldogrin 'suil' "daughter"
- "govad-" - Tolkien had different ideas about the structure of 'mae govannen' over the course of his life. One is simply 'mae + gobad-nen' However Tolkien also considered that 'mae' should cause lenition, so he revised his idea to 'mae + ci + govannen > Mae g’ovannen' "Well (art) thou met". That's where the apostrophe version comes from. However 'govad - ' would need to come from the root BAT "step" which might have been replaced by later PAT with the same meaning (which would lead to 'gobannen'). Therefore I favor a third explanation with 'cova- -> covannen -> lenition govannen' from the root KOM "gather, collect", so I agree about the "no apostrophe", just for different reasons and wanted to point out that it _was_ an Idea from Tolkien. You can read the full madness here: academy.realelvish.net/2021/09/01/conceptual-history-of-mae-govannen-well-met/
- "second person singular verb endings: There is a lot that is actually unknown" Our problem is that we have too many paradigms, not too few, see this discussion: eldamo.org/content/words/word-1090138655.html
- "ce vs ci, la vs le as subjective vs objective" - This is a strange interpretation, I can't find any attestation 'ce' and 'la'
- "-ch as the verb ending for ci" - There is no phonetic development that would justify this, we would expect the 'c' to soften to 'g' in this environment, ad we have examples for it 'car- > cerig' "you do" and 'gala- > galog' "you grow" from PE17/132. 'agorech' in the Túrin wrapper could be an dual form "what have we done" -> 'pedig edhellen?'
- "Sindars" the word is 'Q. Sinda, pl. Sindar'. "Sindars" sounds horrible
- "Maybe" One theory is that 'aen' from 'i sennui Panthael estathar aen' could be a cognate of Quenya 'nai' (I think that's one of CFH's theories). Of course that means it is the subjunctive marker not a good response to a question.
- "Goheno nin, forgive me" - I find "forgive me, I don't understand" to be something perfectly fine to say. I my opinion it's far safer than deriving something from "sorrow" where you will almost certainly produce "sorrowfully" instead of "sorry"
- "nîn" also, its the plural of 'nen' "water", cf. Nîn-in-Eilph, but yes not "me", no circumflex.
- "úchenion" Nothing wrong with that, just a reminder that LĀ- vs. Ū-negation is still an open problem, so it might also be 'lóchenion'.
- "manen, how" - That's a Quenya word, the instrumental particle 'ma' declined in the instrumental case so "by means of what -> how" as in "how did get here". This doesn't make sense in Sindarin, which doesn't have this case and one suggestion was 'na(n) + man -> naman, with what' for Sindarin. However those words can't work in "how are you", "**by what are you?" is nonsensical, such a phrase can't be translated literally, especially as it isn't even meant as an invitation to share ones feelings, just something to say because you are polite and different languages have vastly different strategies for politeness, so no 'manan le' either.
- "maer for good/useful physical things" - Actually we don't have examples of 'maer' in a phrase in Sindarin, the only examples we have are from drafts earlier in Tolkiens life when the Welsh-style language was still called Goldogrin or Noldorin respectively and they are primarily for humans, e. g. 'i weg mór, the good man' or 'bessin moron, good wifes'. With the Quenya cognates I see where you are coming from, 'mára, good/proper' doesn't seem like a particularly good fit, keep in mind however that Sindarin has a tendency to produce homonyms, 'maira, admirable/excellent/precious/splendid/sublime' comes from a form that would produce 'maer' in Sindarin as well.
- "canon Tolkien vs fanfiction" - everything above besides quoting 'mae govannen' directly was already fanfiction with as a nicer term Neo-Sindarin and there is nothing wrong with that as long as we sirive to come close to what Tolkien wrote.
- Avars >> Avari, see Sindar
- "avo naeth" doesn't work because 'naeth' is a noun and the imperative particle needs a verb, its the equivalent of "don't woe" instead of "don't worry". I can't think of a good alternative right now though. I wouldn't worry too much about the teeth-gnashing part, we have 'sigil Elu-naeth, necklace of the woe of Elu' with no particular connotation to teeth attested.
- "le vse len. 'le linnathon'gives enough proof that the form "len" isn't the best form for the formal pronoun" - That's only a lack of creativity on your part ;) one explanation could be that object pronouns induce nasal mutation on their following verb, cf. 'in + lais -> i-lais'. We actually get a explanation from Tolkien that 'le' is an "absolutive" form (so not the standard object form!). Also consider that 'A Elbereth' is a song so it could contain non-standard poetic word choices to fit the meter. I don't claim to know how Sindarin's object pronouns work, just that '-n' marks the object is the best guess we currently have.
- "For some reason, Sindarin lenites all these small common words for no stated reason" - That could be just standard object lenition, i. e. the same Phenomenon that turns 'peth, word' to 'afagrant beth, he spoke words' with out a special rule for function words. Its "I[subj.] thank you[obj.]" after all.
- Now to "thank you" proper. I'd say 'annon allen/echin/annen' for formal/informal/plural with dative pronouns modeled after 'annin, to me' and 'ammen, to us'. Luckily, someone else explained the details already: www.elfdict.com/phrases/1-sindarin/56-how_to_thank_in_sindarin
- "An glas lîn" - I would have expected a definite article here, cf. 'i enneth lín, i innas lín, ered e-mbar nîn...'
- "The Elves in Tolkien's Middle Earth were a noble and formal people and they spoke a noble language" - Again, they have an informal pronoun series so they had almost certainly different registers to draw from.
As you, too, are quite interested in the Eldarin languages, I'm curios: Do you know Vinyë Lambengolmor? It's a fairly active discord server where the community (including figures like Roman Rausch, Tamas Ferencz, Paul Strack and many others) gathers these days.
_elen sílatha aen erim-men lín_ "may a star shine upon your path"
Thank you! This was fun to listen to.
Thank you, glad you liked it
I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH!! IF THEY WONT LEARN ELVISH FOR YOU THEY ARENT WORTH IT HONEY
Spitting facts over here!
You have my sowrd!
When you are going to do first date with an elve, this is right for you
Two facts. Number one: The Hobbit was published in 1932, so most people were most likely still using a horse and carriage. And Number two: back when Tolkien created LotR and The Hobbit, people laughed at him for how “stupid” and “silly” his books were, because no one actually read fiction back then, they only read nonfiction and thought all fiction was stupid. It’s hard to believe now that J.R.R. Tolkien was laughed at for this masterpiece. R.I.P., Tolkien 😔
Different times... I guess that's why some artists only get recognized later in their career (or after it...)
No one read fiction back then???? Where did you get that idea from??? They read A LOT MORE more fiction than we do, from the most serious down to penny novels! Remember, they did not yet have TV.
@@barbarapiazza-georgi3831 they still thought fiction was a “waste of time”. Or at least my dad said it was that way, I don’t know, you could be right
@@fundeztroyer thanks for the nice reply. I'm afraid I must tell you that I am convinced your Dad was wrong on this, or perhaps he was talking of something else. It must have applied to him and is group, but it was definitely not true of society in general. Novels were in great vogue, more than today.
@@barbarapiazza-georgi3831 agreed
This is awesome! I've been obsessed with the fantasy genre for as long as I can remember. It's gonna take a while for me to fully understand Elvish 😁
But even if you hear "Mae govannen" in the movies from now on you're gonna understand something, it's an awesome feeling! And thank you ^^
This should be how to make your elve boyfriend and his father impressed. Nice vid btw 😁
Thanks!
May be legolas and thranduil 😂😂
Love this!
Hannon le, mellon nin. 🌿
Len hannon!
Love your channel!
Thanks for the video, my guy!! I’ve been working on learning basic sindarin to fulfill my dreams of being an elf and this was super helpful
You got this! I'll be waiting for an update ;) And thanks!
This is awesome, thank you alot! I'm going to write it down so I will remember it.
I really appreciate it, thanks!
I like how I’ve failed multiple language classes throughout college and high school for Spanish French and Japanese, but I will be incredibly concentrated on learning elvish and khuzdul.
A language is a language, right? ;)
Thanks so much for this upload! It’s super helpful and will be fun to try to learn Elvish during quarantine (even though I’m supposed to be doing Spanish homework lol). I hope everyone is doing safe and well during this time!
Thank you, glad you liked it! And, I'm not saying that you should not learn Spanish, but... Elvish insults are definitely better ;)
Artreii Lol agreed! One question, do you know how to say you’re welcome in Sindarin?
Great job on this video. I am a fantasy and SF Author, that creates my own conlangs. this was 100% great work here.
Thank you sir, your opinion really made my day!
Don’t need to learn elvish when Irish is your first language 😂😂
Yeah, pretty much ;)
Artreii elvish just sounds like someone speaking Irish drunk with a speech impediment
😂
I can speak Irish too!!
I speak a little Scottish Gaelic and same.
PS: Elvish sounds like Welsh.
Lolol
Why I feel like I'm listening a fanfic😂😂
It's true, aaand... that's the way the news goes ;)
Yesterday I watched Hobit 3 ,I saw Lord of the Rings all of the movies and Hobit too for first time in my life and now I try to find elfish language lolll I like how it sounds😊😊😊😊💓🧚🧚🧚🧚🧚
Sindarin is my favourite of all the constructed languages. I love the fact that the elves are bilingual in lotr
Yeeah, I also really like that and forgot about it for years! :D
You mean in Middle-Earth, as the Elves in Valinor were not bilingual. Actually, the majority of Elves in Middle-Earth were also not bilingual; except for the Noldor, who were native speakers of Quenya but also learned Sindarin as a second language. All Grey Elves (Sindar), Silvan Elves and Green Elves spoke Sindarin. Very few of them actually spoke Quenya.
Sindarin was a lingua franca, like English nowadays. Everybody knew it.@@atanvardo5730
From what i know, 'dh' translated to the sound 'th', as in 'the or 'this' (but not 'thirst' or 'thanks'. There's a difference if you listen carefully)
OMG OMG I NEVER THOUGHT I NEEDED THIS??? THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS YOU'RE AWESOME!
Glad it helped ;)
1:17
It always enraged Sauron that he had to use Tengwar to inscribe the One Ring with its enchantment. Both because he hated the elves more than perhaps even Melkor; and he was jealous the language he made couldn't be used for something so fine, delicate, and valuable.
I want to learn a Ñoldor language. Greatings from Poland :)
Is someone here able to translate the phrase "It´s temporary." for me? My friend is a big Lotr fan :D it is for his gift
I wish i could. Try Reddit or Yahoo answers
The word *_Sindarin_* is not derived from Quenya. It is, in fact, a Quenya word, an adjective meaning "Grey-Elven", "Grey-Elvish" or "related to the Grey Elves or Sindar", and can also be used as a noun referring to the language of the Grey Elves. It is not known how the Grey-Elves or Sindar called their own language. They likely used the adjective *_Edhellen_* , which is an adjective meaning "Elvish", "Elven" or "related to the Elves" as a noun to refer to their language. If you need a Sindarin term which refers precisely to the Grey Elvish tongue, it is possible to coin terms such as *_Thindren_* "Grey Elvish", *_lam-i-Thindrim_* or *_Thindellam_* , both meaning "language/tongue of the Grey Elves". The Quenya equivalent to *_Edhellen_* is *_Eldarin_* "Elven", "Elvish", "related to the Elves", also used as a un umbrella term referring to any or all the languages spoken by the Eldar (like Quenya or Sindarin) - the word *_Eldar_* refers precisely to the Elves who started the March, following Oromë towards Aman , but is often used simply as a word for "Elves", singular *_Elda_* "Elf" (specially one of those who went on the March), Sindarin *_Edhel_* , plural *_Edhil_* . Another Sindarin word for "Elf" is *_Eledh_* , plural *_Elidh_* .
I should be learning spanish right now, but this 10,000 times better
Thanks, but I think you can combine the two 😉
The Sindarin personal adjective, or possessive adjective, for "your" is *lín* , written with an acute accent (rather than a circumnlex: *lîn* ), which holds for all other personal adjectives. The acute accent in *nín* "my" was once regarded as a slanted macron which Tolkien would have accidentally written this way (a macron is an horizontal stroke written above a vowel to indicate that this vowel is pronounced long), because all other personal adjectives attested in _Sauron Defeated_ have a circunflex. But it was noted that, if the acute accent was confirmed, this adjective would be probably enclitic (that is, placed after the word it modifies. And the acute accent was then confirmed (Vinyar Tengwar 44/22). Plus, in the Appendix E of _The Lord of the Rings_ , Tolkien wrote that, in the transcription of Sindarin, long vowels in unstressed monosyllables are written with an acute accent. *Lín* was attested in Vinyar Tengwar 44/24, in two lines of a Sindarin translation of the Lord's prayer, *no aer i eneth lín* “hallowed be thy name”, *tolo i arnad lín* “thy kingdom come” and *caro den i innas lín* “thy will be done”. *Nín* was also attested in said translation: *Ae Adar nín i vi Menel* “Our Father who art in Heaven”, but is used for “our” rather than “my” ( *mín* "our" was the expected personal adjective to be used here, which would then change *vín* through soft mutation, or lenition, since it would directly follow the noun it modifies: *Ae Adar vín i vi Menel* ) - *ae* is the interjection "o!" (which is not on the "original"/English version of the prayer) and *i* is, here, the indefinite pronoun “who, what, which, that” (undeclinable - used both as a singular and a plural pronoun); but it is used mainly as the definite article “the”, singular (plural form *in* ).
Supposing that Gil-galad is asked about his name, the answer to *man i eneth lín?* "what is your name?" (word for word: "what (is) the name your?") may be either *i eneth nín Gil-galad* "my name is Gil-galad" (word for word: "the name my (is) Gil-galad") or *Gil-galad i eneth nín* "Gil-galad is my name" (word for word: "Gil-galad (is) the name my"). Both word orders can occur in Sindarin.
i just love that this fandom is coming back (still going strong??) because 13year old me would've killed for this video series and 20 year old me is very happy about this ahh
I think some of it is coming back (we'll see what the Amazon series does to it). And... I also would've killed for it as a 13 year old ;)
@@Artreii oh yes I'm also very excited for that series but also kinda scared for what they're gonna do with it
@@lisa_vxng Same!!
Don't forget that you are a genius tâd !
"Okay so imagine you're meeting Legolas"
Me: Oh dear...
I know right ^^
wow, that's beautiful!!! thank you, i need more language with Legolas, please!
Thank you! And there are more already up :)
Everybody: I want to speak Elvish
Me: H, Hi He,He,Hell,o
Aand... Saying Hi in Elvish requires just one letter ;)
*me after watching this at 3 AM now having a sudden urge to be fluent in a fictional language*
That was my goal ^^ Improvise, adapt, inspire haha
Despite the fact that Sindarin was the everyday Elvish language spoken in Middle-Earth (where the story of _The Lord of the Rings_ takes place), the Elvish language mostly featured on the LotR's books is Quenya, spoken by the Elves of Aman/Valinor, instead (not those of Middle-Earth). The reason for this is evidently that most of Elvish lines on the books are actually music/poetry, not everyday conversations ─ in Middle-Earth, in the Second Age (the LotR's story takes place in the Third Age), the everyday usage of Quenya was forbidden by Elu Thingol, king of the Sindar in Doriath, because he discovered that those who spoke that language, the Noldor (who came from Aman in self-exile), had slayed many Elves of their borthers of the Teleri clan. Thus, in Middle-Earth (not in Aman), Quenya had its usage limited to music/poetry and ceremonies (and also magic spells) and became something like an Elvish equivalent of Latin (an "Elvish Latin", as it is sometimes described outside Tolkien's mythology). Besides, there is also the fact that, among all languages created by Tolkien, Quenya was the one that he beloved the most; so, I think he probably wanted Quenya to be featured most of the time, rather than Sindarin. But, in the movies, most of the lines in Elvish consist of common, everyday conversations and the like; so, naturally, Sindarin is featured more often.
Oh yeah this makes so much sense, never thought about that, thanks! And I guess I should cover more Quenya, huh? ;)
@@Artreii It's the main Elvish language in Tolkien's books. So I think it woud be a good idea.
Sindarin is beautiful... truly beautiful. 😍 💖
I absolutely love this language.
J.R.R. Tolkien= the second best British language genius of the 20th century right after Reynold A. Nicholson 🤗🤗🤗👏👏👏👏👏👏
It really is! I hope you've already watched some of Mr. Tolkien's original speeches in Elvish (mostly Quenya). I can't even give it justice here ;)
That Minecraft furnace made me laugh harder than it should've 😂
I remember the precise moment I edited it, I love it too ^^
I thought Mae govanen translated to ' a star shines on our meeting'. I don't know elvish but I've definitely read that.
It definitely does in Quenya, so probably in Sindarin as well, yeah
@@Artreii cheers not just me then! 😃
Imagine going to a lotr party where they can speak all languages perfectly.
Ho-ly shh, sounds fantastic! Like a book club lol! Maybe one day...
Some of the memorization you taught us actually called the Method of Loci, look it up its awesome
I've never heard of it, I guess it fits some of my techniques yeah, but it's more similar to a memory palace I think. Thanks for that, good to know!
Mah is what in hebrew and ani is I as well Mahni sounds like an interesting combo of the two
Can you make a video teaching us how to say how old we are, where we’re from etc?
You can check out my second episode of Elvish, there are some great resources in the description, maybe you'll find it there. I'm not planning on doing an episode soon, so check those out ;)
Actually, I did it it's the 4th episode
An amazing video! Loved it. Also am I the only one who feels that in the movies, Aragorn says something like "hanun len" for "thank you" and not "len hanun" like said in the video?
First of all, thank you, and Aragorn may have said "Hannon le", as it is also a version of "Thank you" (actually even more popular than "Len Hannon"), so yeah, I guess you're right ;)
@@Artreii oh! I actually did not know that there are two versions. I am new to it, so I was confused. Thank you!
No problem! I was also kinda confused when I learned about it ;)
Also considering the materials we have now access to but were unavailable to David Solo during the time the movies were made, thank you should probably be annon allen, cf. www.elfdict.com/phrases/1-sindarin/56-how_to_thank_in_sindarin
Len Hannon for the cool video!
I’m gonna impress my crush by saying “Could I have your phone number” but in Elvish first.
Yes! Let me know how it goes one day ;)
Definitely talking to my elf on the shelf with this
burned the rest of my brain cells
Surely not, you definitely have the ability to watch the second episode 😀
Thank you
Thank YOU!
Omg where quarantine has led me to
To the good place ;)
So you're telling me, they have words to talk about not all who wander are lost, but have not yet come up with a yes? Elves
Yeahhh, so maybe they're not that smart after all ^^
My thoughts exactly.
Heii, a question: Once Haldir said "Legolas son of Thranduil" what is it in Sindarin when you write it and what would be mean "Daughter of Thranduil?"
I would be very happy if you or someone can help me. Thank you already!😊
Im law iston(
P. S. I said that I don't know lol
@@randomguy-ex1sg Kay😂 thanks anyways. I mean I know something different instead😅
In Sindarin the word for son is “ion” (ee-on” so when its used to say “son of [name]” its put at the end of the father’s first name. Since Thranduil is Legolas’s dad’s name its written: Thranduilion. For daughters the same rule applies but the Sindarin word for it is “iel” (ee-el). For the phrase “daughter of Thranduil” it would be “Thranduiliel”. Also in Elvish customs they don’t use the mother’s name (i forget why).
hope this helps!
@@rosabellelove9 Thank you so much! It helps a lot!🥰
Thank you is hannon le, they say it in the movies
Yeah, that's the other way to say that, I included it in the second episode ;)
Mae govannen, im Hîrencorn, ù-iston man Carin ha, dan polin cari ha.....
Mae govannen, mellon nin.
Me: let's do something productive today
Also me:
Ay, sometimes inspiration is more important than productivity ;)
SORRY I COULDN'T GET THROUGH THIS WITHOUT DYING🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Do u like ariana grande and Legolas too?!❤I adore you
@@bestiacrauta3698 yesss!!! I'm yo sistaa 😎😎💓
Thank You for this 🍷 👌... the Alvaro soler part cracked me up 😂
Haha thanks, I also liked it a lot when I came up with it ;)
Mae g'ovannem Artreii. I eneth nin Tirnion. Len hannon for a video sir! :) an ngel nin make a second part :) Novaer!
Part 2 is up already 😀
@@Artreii Wow! An ngel nin for information! :)
*Mae g'ovannen* translates "thou art well met" (word for word: "well (art) thou met"), with *ci* for "thou", "you" and *govannen* for "met", which are then lenited to *gi* and *'ovannen* due to the preceding adverb *mae* "well", and *gi* loosing its final *-i* because the following word, *'ovannen* , begins in a vowel. But it seems that the greeting in its final conception is *mae govannen* (without the apostrophe between the *g* and the following *o* ), translated "well met", with the passive participle "met" being either *covannen* (verbal stem either *cova-* or *covad-* ), then lenited to *govannen* due to the preceding *mae* "well", or an unlenited *govannen* (verb stem *govad-* ).
When your nickname ends up being a word in elvish:
this is a great video!
Thank youu!
Wow. Thank you
Glad you liked it ;)
what a beautiful language
Totally agree, of course!
Damn, guess I lucked out with this because my name already sounds like it could be elven (my name’s Rowan, also fitting that it’s the name of a type of tree lol)
My work: *needs to be done*
Me: *Learning Sindarin on UA-cam*
Me to my company: Goheno nin
My company:
*promotes you* ;)
Are you from Poland? Becouse your "A" and that kind of letters are... you know very Polish XD
Ah yes I am, tryna work on my accent a bit, but very impressive that you noticed 😁
@@Artreii Naprawde nie trudno zauwazyc xD
Nie rozumiem...
yes JRR Tolkien is incredible thats why he is master linguistic
What they did very well is making up a fictional language and have it sound like it's real.. like they don't just use it to show that it exists but like it's an actual spoken language.
As much as i love the dragon age series, i don't know what their elvhen is based on but whenever they use it it's out of place and it' s like they just , well use it to have it. They rarely speak whole sentences ,and if they do it soubds like they just read it ,not speaking it.. you kniw what i mean🤔
Yeah I get you, that's because the languages in LOTR were made before the stories... Little fun fact 😉
@@Artreii oh , i didn't knew that😱 makes it even better.
Pretty neat to know. Thanks a literal, & figurative ton!
Glad I could help!
Just to get things straight here...
Arwen was 2700 years when she met Aragorn. Arwen's father is Elrond, Elrond's brother is Elros, Elros was the great great grand father of Valandil, Valandil's descendant Elendil was the first high king of the Dúnedain, Elendil's son Isildur, the guy who chopped off the ring on Sauron's finger, well he Isildur sired the kings of Arnor, Eärendur became the last ruler of Arnor, as his son became the king or Arthedain, which was just a region of Arnor as his brothers ruled the other regions, well Amlaith's 14th generation descendant Arvedui, was the last king of Arthedain, his son Aranarth became the first Chieftain of the Dúnedain, well his 14th generation ancestor Arathorn II was the last Chieftain of the Dúnedain if we don't consider his son who didn't really do a great job as a chieftain of the Dúnedain, because his son was lazy and went questing with an elf a dwarf, 4 hobbits and the current ruler of Gondor Steward Benethor II's son Boromir, oh and a Ainur(Maiar) named Olórin, which is an immortal person with magical abilities...
The party of 9 traveled for a bit then became a party of 8 as it's illegal to cast Sean Bean in a role he survives in, eventually almost 3 movies have passed and Arathorn II's useless son manages to marry Arwen his cousin more than 90 generations removed, and become the king of Arnor and Gondor, so what I'm saying is, that Aragorn boned his cousin alabama style and had a son with her.
J.R.R Tolkien must have been really bored trying to figure out how to get a man and an half-elf to be cousins and lovers without it being to incestuous. It's basically an extremely bad wattpad story but with an extreme amount of lore added just to make it seem less creepy.
*me preparing for an elven DnD playthrough*
My jeez, this was so cool. So useful. Len hannon! :)
Thank you! And I'm very happy about that ;)
The only one in the movies who sounded "native" when speaking any Elvish language was Viggo as Aragorn. Cate comes in 2nd.
Totally agree, he's soo good
Love the fact that Sindarin is based heavily off of welsh heeeheee and it sounds so much like it
Yeah, so many of Welsh-speaking people say that, I'm still super surprised by that. But that is truly incredible!
@@Artreii The typography and the words are not based on welsh at all, but the sounds and pronunciations are almost exactly the same. Wales is a small country, so it's nice to see our national identity in something mainstream lmfao
Len hannon mellon
Gi melin: ❤️
This is awesome, thank you
Thanks!
Come on Tolkien, did you have to make these languages so well? They're hard!
That's the beauty tho ;)
So cool 😎
Ohh man, I'm so deep in the Tolkien rabbit hole right now
So cool, thank you!
Thank you too!
Avaro naeth is now slipping into every chance I get to replace "No worries" when someone bumps into me on the bus and apologises. Prob end up being Liv Tyler and I'll resort to U Chenion. Wished you were my Modern Foreign Languages teacher at school. You have a fun easy way to remember phrases and pronunciation. My languages teacher taught us a bit of French and German in the hopes we'd "get by" on a trip to Belgium back in 04'. Yeah they spoke neither and was Flanders and they politely smiled and in perfect English asked what the hell we asked for.(well that's not true, they did speak it, but as with all languages it has nuance, it was like we walked in talking in Newcastle accents to a Londoner in UK terms) hardest part is tense. Past, present, future. I'd ask for something I'd done.
First of all, great habit of saying Elvish words haha, great story, but yeah, I mean, in my French class like only 3 people were actually learning something. I don't think it's necessarily the fault of teachers, but definitely there's no cooperation in learning in most schools. That's why I think everyone should make it fun
Thanks👏
No problemo!
but why are you pronouncing “n” in english words “ng”?
Oh I don't know, I never realized it. It must be my accent + the fact that I'm speaking Elvish in between English sentences
Plz do pt 2!!!
I did already :D
anu adorei delenah
Woops, wrong elven language.
Yeah, you picked the harder one ;)
the minecraft furnace---- i can' t ahahahha
My favorite mnemonic, yeah ^^
Mae g'ovannen melon.
Hannon le!
Mochi Trash **mellon**
If i am correct kwimbina is faster in elvish
Why does this video teach me a better language than my ACTUAL teachers?
Thank you, but that's a heavy diss on the schooling system tho ;)