Excellent work Jon! You attending court is so valuable to your work and videos. It gives you a unique perspective that I appreciate. I am blown away the notes were a blip in the prosecutions case, but it goes to show that they didn't need them. One small piece in a giant puzzle.
That's what I was thinking, for the prosecution to not make a big deal out of them knowing the other evidence was so strong shows how confident the prosecution was in their case.
Not ONE piece of forensic evidence proving beyond all reasonable doubt Lucy Letby's guilt was put before the court, hence she's guiltless of the charges as far as the general public is concerned. You can't just sentence someone to a whole life of imprisonment without evidence of any wrongdoing. What's happening to Lucy is so cruel and unjust.
@thelwulfofnorhymbraland2333 Not one piece of forensic evidence proving beyond reasonable doubt that Harold Shipman killed those people was presented in his trial, the circumstantial evidence though was overwhelming.
@@jimmynich4791good point. I wonder why they didn't spend more time on them? I agree they must have had a lot more evidence. There's so much focus on these notes and I thought they must have been discussing them for weeks
I love hearing your thoughts as someone who was present for some of the trial & have done a great deal of research on this case. Thank you for your hard work
Thanks Candice, when I think of all the journeys I made, 9 hour drives on three separate occasions just to be told a juror was sick and had to drive all the way back after booking hotels etc 😩😩 Comments like that make it worthwhile.
You...by far...make the best coverage videos this Lucy Letby's case. Honestly...fantastic views, opinions, and perspectives on her and what she did. Great job!!
I’d love to see a video about her case for being innocent and all the information her, her team and others have that claim she’s not guilty. Keep up the great work on the case!
If this were the only evidence, I’d say there’s enough reasonable doubt to free her, as I don’t think this is a confession. If anything it seems she barely admits it to herself. However, the combined evidence of the insulin poisoning of the two babies, the keeping of all those handover records, and the fact of her being there for every incident is far more compelling to me.
There's no evidence against Lucy Letby. One of the babies that died of insulin overdose had the prescription rewritten; so it looks like the fault of a doctor. Lucy will be vindicated once the government inquiry is underway and a proper, robust investigation into the alleged acts is undertaken.
So how did she get the insulin into the babies without being observed? David Kurten did an excellent video or two. Norman Fenton and Dr Scott McLachlan did an interview and McLachlan has a substack at Law Health Technology newsletter which could well persuade anyone of her innocence. Also one new to me at rexvlucyletby
There is no evidence that she added insulin to the TPN bags and none of the bags were tested for the presence of insulin. The test used to determine the presence of artifical insulin in the babies blood was inappropriate and the results should have been declared inadmissible. She was actually present on the ward for less than half of the babies deaths - 17 died during the relative time period and she was rostered on when 8 occurred. Every nurse some times takes handover notes home by accident and if you were being accused of murdering babies I think it is reasonable to take notes home that indicated innocence - only one of her own notes was used in evidence against her. As someone who has worked in forensic psychiatry I think you are right to dismiss this so called confession.
I’ve noticed she wrote over her writing and there is a lot of overlap that creates different messages. I believe that’s intentional. The same as she used code in her diary. She DID expect it to be read one day. Or, that it was a strong possibility. She’s clever. She knows it would be obvious if she tried to mislead people by making a note about her innocence and it would not satisfy the point of writing this. She writes this to get it out. She writes it in a way that alternate meanings can be ascribed to it. The word ‘went’ looks like another word, ‘want’. ‘They want ‘ Written mid sentence after ‘I can’t be’ = ´I can’t be what they want’ in reference to the line ‘I don’t deserve mum & dad’ it’s just one example - there are better ones that don’t require any inference about meaning. She wrote Tigger & Smudge over a piece that was reportedly found during a search. Before we knew her cats names, people were assuming they were nicknames for her and Dr A. It’s probably what they were - she used her cats names in place of hers and his. Have you looked over the notes and seen how many times different passages written in different pens at different times overlap to create new sentences or just seem to relate to the passages they overlap? It seems too often to be unintentional.
I think it likely says "they can't" after the sentence "how can things ever be like they used to" "they can't". The word HATE is written over "they used to"
There’s no doubt that this is the channel to watch in regards to this case. You have more insight into this case than any other channel I used to watch. You’ve done an amazing job covering this case
Thank you for putting all these videos together and for attending the court case. I've loved your videos and take on all of this. I heard about this last year and have been waiting to know the outcome and details. You have been so informative and thorough. Enjoy your day, thanks again for these video uploads
You raise some valid points about why Letby did not challenge the prosecutors when they very briefly brought up the notes. We should not forget though that she wrote these notes after being accused of these crimes, and in a stressed mental state, possibly aggravated by prescribed psychiatric drugs. I imagine that before and during the trial, she was still in this stressed state so could not really think clearly about her emotions when writing the notes, only what she did or did not do during 2015-2016, years earlier.
I would be curious as to when those pictures of her were taken as she seemed relaxed and enjoying her time out drinking with friends/ coworkers especially if ,as you say, she may have been stressed or prescribed psychiatric drugs, especially if she was still allowed to work with those babies except for the time they had her do desk work. Did any prescribed drugs come up in court?
@@yvetteschneider5172 The pictures of Lucy Letby that are shown on rotation, over and over again in nearly every news report or video about the trial look like they were taken around 2012-2014, when she first started work as a nurse.I say this because she looks very similar in them to her university graduation photo, which I believe was in 2011. She was only prescribed psychiatric drugs after her first arrest, which if i am not mistaken was in 2018, and after she was moved to desk duty.
@@missperfectfeet And during that one year and 60 detectives they did not find one fingerprint on syringes, one piece of DNA on hospital equipment matching Letby's, one record of who exactly had the keys to the insulin fridge or one photo or reel of video footage showing Letby doing the things she is accused of. Zero, nada, zilch.
I have really enjoyed these videos and look forward to them. You have done a remarkable job in covering this case and have presented everything fairly and accurately without sensationalising! Well done, well done, well done…and a huge thank you for covering such a tough and emotional case.
@@CrimeScene2Courtroom According to much of the prosecutions rationale this is not supposed top be enjoyable nor even appreciable. Why stir up sociological - psychological- Essentialist & Existentialist consensus of JOY you video cannot be seen to be consistent with ? Is there something wrong with YOU - Pra * ?
I completely disagree with your reading of the green note. It says, 'How will things ever be like they used to - they won't.' If you look, under the word FEAR is the word 'to'. I don't think 'they went' is an idiom Letby would use. She is quite well spoken and 'they went' is slang she wouldn't use. If she did, it would appear in her texts and it doesn't. Otherwise, great video. I look forward to your upcoming videos discussing why people think she's innocent. (Spoiler: she's guilty.)
She may have been really stressed and not thinking correctly. (Maybe she's just exhausted). She has to have a calm disposition with the job she had. She is hyperthetically speaking about what they said to her, and that they think she was an Evil person. They think she is an Evil person., if they think she's Evil and worthless, her life is not worth living. Way to many loose ends in this case and trial.
Could not agree more. It could be all kinds of things. The notes could have been added to by some corrupt person. I find it shocking also how the public is like a whole gang of hyaenas. It creeps me out. And these channels are totally adding to it, they increase the public hate.
That is not a confession. No matter how you spin it. She did not say she did it. In fact she has denied every time her guilt. It must have been exhausting and distressing that no one is listening to her. How often do you have to explain your innocence before you give up?
Her trial was the opportunity to defend herself. Her attorney called a plumber, she took the stand in her own defense, which was when she should have shown emotion and answered questions to indeed defend herself.
This is what the note reads.... Today is your birthday, but you aren’t here + I am so sorry for that Im sorry that you couldn’t have the chance at life + for the pain that your Parents must experience everyday. We tried our best + it wasn’t enough I don’t know if many people will think of you today or any day but I do + I ???? ????? always remember because you should be. I can’t do this anymore, I want someone to help me but they can’t so what’s the point in asking. Hate my life.
@@HLB313 I’d imagine because he was a cheating PoS, as well as the proof of him sending Loser Letby emails from the closed meetings with the higher-ups, giving her info she wasn’t supposed to have, wanting to protect her, etc. - none of which would bode well for him when searching for a different job or relocating to get away from this whole situation. He was probably hesitant to testify (or testify fully/truthfully if subpoenaed) and didn’t want his identity released publicly if he did. I think the employees of the hospital were asked if they were comfortable with their identities being revealed - some said yes, others said no. (I think) I very much wish they released his name, but if I were in his shoes, I’d fight to have my name redacted too! 😂😬 His poor wife. She probably had no idea. Imagine finding out the person you love and trust and made a family with, had - at MINIMUM - an emotional affair with his coworker… but then to find out in such a public way. Knowing everyone you personally know in your life is piecing it together and finding out the details of the worst time in your life. I hope she left him. I truly do. My heart breaks for her. I’ve had that moment of finding out everything I thought was real, was a lie - I can’t imagine it being all over the news, too. 💔
Fantastic video, so thank you once again,Jon. If we were in a pub I'd buy you a drink right now. I'm glad you've pointed out that the post it notes weren't used by judge and jury as justification for guilty verdict. That was clever, sound justice not to rely on the post it notes, since other evidence was stronger
They were important. Just the mere mention of them stuck in the minds of the jury and the judge and everyone else who either believes it’s confessional, it’s meant to throw off the case or she’s just a stupid word doodler of feelings. Both sides referenced the notes several times. I honestly can’t believe the notes were even allowed. How would the anyone know what that stuff was referring to? It’s circumstantial at best and doesn’t assert anything to the accusation not evidentiary evidence baseless
#CrimeScene2Courtroom I suggest (in defence) the length of time she had already spent in jail; may have caused a shift in her mental stability. I was in a case and by the time the hearing took place I was so emotionally and physically exhausted I was easily tricked by the judge, because i.just wanted it over and done with. The way trials are or can be convoluted is enough to drive the sensitive to distraction.
@@JoTracy sensitised* BTW I wasn't guilty but was found guilty of flikking the perpetrators nose for her consistent harassment and malicious communications. Even after the perp admitted to.pushing me into it.. The streamer will be looking into.possibilities of innocence..you'll have no need to watch those!!
Nope, I don't agree, she's a smart cookie. She knows she's guilty. we know she's guilty. When its your whole life in jail if found guilty, there is no way you just want it over and done with. If innocent you'd fight for freedom, until the day you die. Well, I would anyway.
That letter to the triplets is weird, birthday wishes. Looking at her bedroom, her bedroom is of a,16 year old, her bed etc. Not a grown women's bedroom. She may have a child like inner self possibly. Maybe thats why she wrote such a birthday wish to the triplets. This is a terrible crime, I cannot wrap my head around it. Its extremely sad and unbelievably evil
so you're saying that a person's bedroom can determine whether they are guilty or not? Are people not allowed to have furry toys in their bedroom at any age? I have a beautiful suede type cat and a furry bear in my bedroom, given to me as presents , one from my sister and one from my best friend, for my fortieth birthday .... they are proudly on display.
❤Thank you SO much! I haven't heard this info and you helpful breakdown and how this wasn't a huge part of the case, and also her personality in speaking up!
Jon thank you for pointing the fullness of that note out It gives better insight to what the fullness of that note is about I’ve said since day one that Lucy upset a senior nurse (more experienced but less qualified) That nurse had a doctors ear Lucy knew she was sunk (irrespective of guilt or innocence) and I don’t think she put up much fight about anything
That "HATE". Shes saying everybody at her unit (eg: those four doctors) hate her. So many more people need to be brought to tial in this case. (Total Neglect). The hospital management are disgusting. (Actions speak louder than words) their actions were "Evil".
Word is she had the hots for a Dr and when the babies went downhill, guess who turns up, that Dr. Some people are so twisted on the inside, and some are incredible at hiding it.
I watched a interview with one of the uk top criminologist he said this not a confession. It’s normal behaviour of someone under stress to make notes like this.
I agree the 'hypergraphia' can be a 'coping mechanism' or venting of stress but it wasn't the damming evidence of culpability. Her room wasn't particularly childish either, as has been reported. Unfortunately it's common to demonise all aspects of personality when someone is found guilty. The police didn't zero in on LL alone they worked from scratch. It takes a lot to even bring a case to trial. The jury heard and studied everything. We didn't.
Why dont ypu cover the fact 17 babies died during that period and Letby wasnt there for 10 of those deaths. The unit was also upgraded then downgraded for the exact time period of these SEVENTEEN deaths.
@phillipaclemons7261 no, there were baby 17 death during this time period. However, 10 where not mentioned in court because letby was not on shift. Read the discovery you muppet.
@garyjones407 why were 10 death omitted from the evidence? Because Letby was not on shift for those death, thus destroying the prosecution case. Read the discovery you muppet.
Thank you for all the work you have put into this case. Ive never commented before but I watched everyone that you did on the missing lady earlier this year too. I look forward to your videos. Thanks
Thank you for making this video. And your other coverage has been very informative and very much needed to understand how and why in such an awful case
I think the placement of that notes in the cross examination is the key point. They didn't need to spend 10 hours talking about the notes, the information is plain to see. The fact it was the last 5 minutes 100% makes them one of the most important pieces of evidence.
Thank you for your look at the case. As far as what people will say about her guilt or innocence, I agree. The most likely explanation is that they really haven't looked closely at the case, but looking for " gotcha" moments as an attempt to elicit a reaction from other people.
very well could be? But there should be proper examinations, especially cause we're so smart today, and informed, and with AI supporting us?? we can surely find the truth?????????@@jono1457-qd9ft
Just FYI, Americans say that "they went" thing too, though it's more often "So she goes, that shirt makes you look terrible, so I go, it's none of your business what I wear," but it's very similar. "You went and ran your mouth," would be easily understood here, particularly in the south.
I really want to hear more from Team Innocent so that I can understand their perspective. My best friend is a criminal barrister and barristers like to win cases. Additionally, they would have known that Lucy's whole life was at stake... This isn't a time to play small or give 50%. With this in mind, if there was good evidence to prove her innocence, what prevented Lucy and her barrister sharing this information? Tactics that I would have taken to prove my innocence would include demonstrating that some mysterious deaths also occured when I was on annual leave or banned from the ward, emphasising that my note said "They went ..." and having at least one medical professional as a witness who could state under oath that these deaths and responses to resus are all completely normal ones. Why was there not a single doctor they could find who could argue this? 🤔
I think that the jury should have spent longer than 5 minutes discussing these notes because it would have given more guidance in their interpretation. It was asserted from the onset that these were confessions, designed to sway the Jurys opinion from the onset. in my view they should never have been allowed in the courtroom. They are not coherent pieces of writing and could be interpreted in several different ways. My own interpretation was that they were an expression of somebody being pushed to the edge. If I was in my 20s and my senior colleagues said my practice was bad or even that might have deliberately damaged babies I also would start to believe it. Whether it was 5 minutes or 5 hours on the subject it has had a massive impact on people's view of whether or not she is guilty. I have a very wide circle of Friends and run a picture service and meet all different kinds of people of all different occupations and intellects. Most of them believe that's the Post-it notes are strong evidence of guilt and believe them to be confessions.
There are 700,000 nurses in the UK. Even if a series of tragedies like this have a 1 in 7 million chance of occurring, you would expect them to happen every ten years. I had no idea that her note read "they went..." that changes everything. Combined with the sewage issue, the case against her looks extremely flimsy. I think the media and the left want scapegoats who look like her.
@@StellaKnights OK, I will watch it, gave up half way. Maybe she just has limited intelligence and was the type of person in need of a good lawyer, from what I saw her defense was unbelievably incompetent.
How about the "you" in "you aren't here" refers to "all 3 of you" or "the two of you"? How about these are notes in which she just writes down whatever thoughts she had and she doesn't know what made her write down these exact words? There are also notes that are just scribbles that don't contain words, should we takes those as confessions or drafts for sympathy cards too? This case is absolutely ridiculous.
So if you expressly name somebody in a note saying you’re no longer with us, and you’re accused of trying to kill them, then that isn’t suspicious at all is it?
She had some sort of weekly wellbeing counselling at one point. I wonder if they told her to write her fears and anxieties down as a way of managing stress. Because it's got that tone about it.
For what it's worth, I have a Masters in Criminology and I'm also British. Letby does not get an appeal unless she can bring forward new evidence that if heard might have influenced the jury to return a verdict of not guilty. You don't just get an appeal because you don't agree with the verdict. After a trial lasting ten months it's highly unlikely something was missed.
Realistically, the chances of anyone facing seven whole life terms being granted an appeal, is virtually non-existent. It would be deemed a waste of taxpayers money.
I think what she meant by writing “they went” was actually they died. She is well spoken and sounds educated. Usually uneducated people would say they went, rather than they said, or what one instead of which one etc. 🤔
That is exactly what I thought! She wrote "they went" as in "they have gone" or "they passed", which is what some people say as a more polite way to say "they died".
@michaelslater3131 , yes mate, also a follower since watching the footsoldier films etc, 30 years on , lots of debate and speculation , I doubt the truth will ever be known who un-alived them.
I wonder if there is more notes like that? And how far they go back? I think one or 2 notes might just be trying to make up something for reasonable doubt.
The assertion that Letby's post it note is a confession demonstrates a lack of understanding of nurse training requirements. It is clearly a reflective note that nurses are required to produce as part of there training and they are encouraged to continue this practise as graduates. I have always encouraged my students not to do this or if they do, to distroy them because such notes can be used against them. Having strong opinions is not evidence of murder. You have no understanding of what it is like to be subject to immense pressure for several years.
No consultant or NHS staff member, has time to master plan a set up of this nature. She's guilty, it's purely because she doesn't look like a killer, that people are reluctant to agree with that fact I believe. I think so much media disinformation isn't helping, not only this case but society in general at the moment, sees everyone questioning everything. Great work thanks again for incredible coverage 🏆
@@missperfectfeet😂 that's true. Beverley Allitt was a fat munter with a shit haircut who 100% deserved to be convicted. But Lucy is fit, so she's obviously not guilty.
The baby murders started the day AFTER she had attended a hen party of a her work colleague. In her own writing she complains, " ...I will never have children.. ". The timeline video alleges envy and jealousy as her motives.
I doubt that she started killing at baby A & i say that bacause of the brazeness of that situation. She was surrounded by 4 doctors in the same room. Of course i could be wrong but i think she is gonna be guilty of far more murders over the next few years
@@daisydargan9336 It's hot on the news channels that she threw two old ladies under a bus, causing their deaths. So far the evidence is only circumstantial, but I mean, that's enough. Innit, Daisy?
Great assessment! What really does it for me apart from everything else is the big increase in neonatal deaths whilst she works there; she is there/on shift for every single death and collapse, when she was moved to days, the deaths/collapse moved to days with her and when she was removed completely they all stopped, plus everything else the prosecution presented plus the notes, they proved her guilt
NOT every death. There were 31-33 deaths in that period (for some reason we don't know exactly how many). There were 15 deaths considered as suspicious by the consultants which was whittled down to the 8 that Letby was present for (one was rejected by the judge). This information was not brought up at the trial - at least, if it was, this channel has not yet picked it up.
@@fredneecher1746the police checked and eliminated anyone else on various shifts. It sounds like you are saying they the consultants chose those cases simply because Letby was on shift? Maybe I'm mistaken. Even if the consultants tried to do this, the police wouldn't have been interested unless there was something to investigate. They took months and months looking into them all and eliminated other people and then the trial was 10 months.
@@fredneecher1746 why on earth would other deaths be brought up at trial when she wasn't charged with them? It makes no sense. You can't expect Myers to say "look over there, she didn't kill these babies, so she can't have killed these ones". It's irrelevant. Either they weren't murders when looked into or there wasn't enough to take them to trial. It's standard that the prosecution goes with the charges they are most likely to get a conviction with
As usual the standard of your work awesome. I believe many of the debunkers are simply trying to gain views from people who don't know the facts and will be hood winked into thinking there's a lot more to the note than there actually was. The best example of this is the very one you used. Lucy herself had more than ample opportunity to try and mold the contents of these notes to either soften the meaning of the notes or even try and use them to bolster her case. She seemed to do neither and simply accepted the prosecutions interpretation of the notes.
It s all about reasonable doubt and a lack of tangible evidence. Although I was not in court, from what I have heard I have not heard one shred of EVIDENCE that convinces me, beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty. 😊
It could be argued that rather than describing what people had been saying, that she was talking about the parents, or other staff members leaving, thus giving her the opportunity to attack - “they went, I did this”. You’re absolutely right. On the scale of things, that note didn’t mean much of anything
They may not have used the notes much but they first planted that tabloid style seed at the start and then brought it up again in the closing. Like you say, it was important for the tabloids and therefore the people that buy them so could’ve been a tactic by the prosecution, Maybe? That triplet note though is massive I think.
While I haven't finished watching all of your cross examination transcript videos so I'm not fully up to date with exactly what has been said for all the cases, the biggest indicator of her guilt to me is how terrible her defense has been; she has had at least five years to work out exactly what she should say while being questioned and seeing how she has been locked up for 2 of those years before her trial began she wouldn't have had much else to do in her spare time (and she would have had a lot of spare time), but still the best she could come up with is things like "I don't know" and "I can't remember". If I had been falsely accused of murdering 7 babies I would be making it my life's mission to remember exactly where I was, who I was with and any other event leading up to the babies deaths that would help me prove it wasn't me. To me, the only reason you would say "I can't remember" whilst being questioned where you were at the time of one of the babies collapsing and/or dying is if you can actually remember but know that if you told them what actually happened it would be a confession that you did kill them, and you also know that if you lied and said you were somewhere else they would have a witness to prove otherwise (for example, if she was in room 1 injecting air into a baby, she doesn't know where anyone else was in the unit, so she couldn't have said she was actually in room 2 because she doesn't know for sure if there was someone else in room 2 or not that would prove she was lying). Thank you for your coverage. RIP to all the little babies.
What you say is common sense, realistic psychological analysis, but a lot of people reduce it to power, she's powerless so she is innocent. It's about how rubbish the police the NHS and the judicial system are.
She was found guilty in the court of common sense before the trial even commenced. Why bother with a a trial when you can just ask Elsie from number 23, Gammon Street? It doesn't make sense..
what utter nonsense. So saying 'i cant remember' is a sign of guilt? Hope you're not on my jury. What do you suggest someone says that cant remember then?
Maybe its because the jury were not given all the facts. The unit during this period had 19 deaths, 5he police only presented the ones where LL was on duty. Did the police mention all the other handover sheets in bags or just the ones of the day of the babies deaths, most nurses take home handover sheets intheir pockets and they quickly build up to be shredded. One thing that has struck me is where are say the school freinds, colleagues, neighbour's etc.. whenever there's a killer conviction people want their 5 minutes fame in MSM with their accounts, something they did or said in the past, a loner or just odd. Huntley, Mary Bell Yorkshire Ripper and many more had countless stories, with LL we have had nothing. Why also when all his Dr freinds are screaming from the rooftops does Dr A have a need to be anonymous??
In my opinion, they are wrong. Up to Lucy now to prove her innocence, I don't think she can. The notes show that very clearly, what was going on inside Lucy was extrememly well hidden. and showed some serious mental health issues.
@@zed4225It's never up to the person on trial to prove their innocence.It's up to the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.They did'nt do that,therefore the jury made the totally wrong decision.
i still can't believe that she was being investigated for years before she was arrested and she didn't erase all evidences like this and kept it together with patient's notes . that confidence is mostly seen in murderers. they are determined to continue till they get caught.
Handover sheets are not patient notes.They're handwritten notes made by nurses to refer to during their shift.Nurses always accidentally take them home in their pockets.It's not that deep.
After so many years i dont think she will be coaping well and thinking clearly like is suggested. Its an unbelievable amount of pressure fro anyone to cope with. She probably is numb and dissociative state
@@gingerjessy Are you able to imagine what sort of state the parents of those dead infants might be in? Sod Letby. She's wrecked many people's lives here......
So great to hear from someone who sat through most of the trial. It's difficult if people cannot watch the trial to weigh the value of the state's case. As someone who heard the entirety of the state's case against her do you feel that they proved her guilt beyond all reasonable doubt, such that you would have voted guilty if you were on the jury? What I dont follow is, for ex. the insulin found later (apparently all but one of these infants had been autopsied at the time and all were label 'natural causes'). But years later they find this insulin. How did they prove she's the one who put it in there? Same with air she supposedly injected into their bloodstreams and bellies,, even if that could be proven, how do we know she's the one who did it? This is what Im not following, after having heard many claims, is how they proved beyond all reasonable doubt that only Letby could have been responsible. Everything about the way she behaved on the stand seem to me the way and innocent person would act: upset and defensively. Making her defend internet searches she did on people she encountered,, in whatever way she did, is just ludicrous. But obviously that is not what convinced you of her guilt, -if indeed you are convinced of her guilt. tx again.
1) CCTV is essential both outside and inside. 2) Two keys must be turned at the same time and be 20 ft apart for entry. 3) No one should be allowed alone inside the nursery ward.
Why didn't Lucy Letby discuss the fact with management that she felt unable and incapable of providing appropriate care for those infants, instead of killing them? Remember, she wrote notes to the effect that she did not feel "good enough" to look after them....
Brilliant work. Is it possible LL didn't argue with the barrister over the note because she presumed he had read and understood 'they went'? (I completely understand such notes have no real legal weight - but a full understanding of what was written does debunk the existence of a 'confession' that is routinely trotted out by press etc). On the otherhand, the triplets note seems VERY disturbing. I presume you covered it in your reporting - but I hadn't grasped the significance of it - and I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere.
With regard to the green note, I don't think it says "They went...": given the style of the writing I read it as "How will things ever be like they used to. They won't". Also, regarding addressing a note to the triplets - while I agree addressing it in this manner to all three is odd, how would she be planning to kill the third infant after they had already been discharged from hospital..?
Excellent work. Have you done a video on insulin poisoning? I believe her diary is ambiguous as evidence as you suggest, Has intentional poisoning been confirmed? Whether by Lucy of anyone else?
Looking at the yellow note, it seems to me she could have been talking about "my best friend". It then mentions a woman's name, then Tigger. The triplets' names do not come immediately before "today is your birthday".
This doesn’t have anything to do with the case but you have a really nice voice it makes listening to these videos a lot easier and it never gets boring
I feel like this too. Especially places like TikTok. There’s certain points being pushed out, and lot of people grab onto it. I’d direct anyone here, as this is where I’ve learned most. X
It clearly says '- they can't', and is the same style and orientation as the writing to the left and above it. The full sentence reads 'How will things ever be like [they used to] - they can't'... The 'they used to' is partially below the circle around 'hate', and partially beneath the R of 'fear'. Apologies if you do actually get to this in the video, I just can't believe people have been looking at this note and seeing it any other way.
It's important to remember that the jury decisions were not unanimous - all decisions were 10 - 1, except for one unanimous 'not guilty.' Considering too the length of time the jury took to reach their verdicts, there was clearly reasonable doubt amongst the jury. With one more vote, she would have walked free. I cannot say for certain that she is innocent but I think that there is enough doubt for me to remain unconvinced by the arguments of the prosecution. A good defence barrister would have a field day
So if she's innocent, even though she is sometimes the only nurse present when the babies go downhill, and is always there when the murders happen, exactly who then is the alternative murderer?
Great commentary on a bizarre and complex case. However, like most others it concludes by asking if Lucy is innocent or guilty. I know many babies have sadly been killed, but I've yet to hear questions asked about a third possible dimension. That is, Lucy's diagnosis or rationale.
Are we even sure they were killed? Of the 7 babies she is accused of, the post mortem verdict was natural causes. This was rejected solely on the evidence of Dr Dewi Evans on the basis of hospital notes, not actual bodies.
OK so I've just paused and paused this to look at the note...... 1. That absolutely foes not say 'when' it looks more like won't or can't...... 2 now look at it as a sentence with the words that are blocked out by the circle around the word Hate.... That sentence reads How will I get through it How will things ever be like they....... ed So would the sentence not look like it says how will things ever be like they used .. Next line small dot/squiggle then "they wont" Then dramatical change in writing force I DID THIS Look at that as a more probable and likely sentence given the handwriting... her e's are always very clear so it sn't 'went' she is writing. So How will things ever be like they used to they won't I I DID THIS
Never forget that this note and this note alone was described as a 'confession'. But it is FAR from that... very far from that. You made a very valid point, but sadly one that trips you over. You said that these notes came at the very start and at the very end of a gruelling 50hrs of being in the stand. That is a Barristers commonest trick, the defendant thinks they can go back but a week apsses and by then it's gone "esprit d'escalier" the French barristers cal it. The store you put by it is wrong in my opinion. If you hold store that it's a confession then equally it's an exoneration because in the same note she wrote "I haven't done anything wrong" a genuinely counterposing phrae to the I did this after she was interviewed by the hospital.
The notes weren’t really a big deal. I suggest taking a look back at the last day of cross examination and you will see for yourself. It is a big deal to yourself because the content itself is interesting but they played no major role whatsoever in court.
Is there any way to forensically date that yellow note to the triplets? If it was proved to be written before the first death then it would be totally damning.
I always look forward to your videos. You’ve done a great job covering this awful, complicated case. Thank you. I still can’t get over that she refused to attend the sentencing. It seems like if she was innocent she would have tried one last time to declare her innocence to the parents. Instead she gave them one last slap in the face. I think that shows her real character.
The fact she actually wrote on a post-it note is interesting to me….post-it notes are a massively important thing for people with ADHD (I have ADHD) and I have to keep notes of everything otherwise I just lose information in its entirety. A diagnosis before a trial would have been advantageous for her and the defence as diminished responsibility would have been something they could work with. Unfortunately it’s a hidden disability and if you don’t see it then you don’t necessarily look for it. Sadly it’s another case of disability discrimination and a diagnosis now may put the whole trial under more scrutiny and possibly a re-trial, which there may not be a stomach for and that’s why the possibility is being ignored.
Ausistic as she kept things couldnt bin things..i feel sorry for her..i really dont think shes done this..there is no real evidance.m autistic people dont lie
She studied nursing and worked 5 or 6 years in 2 different hospitals. It's hard to believe that being a healthcare professional surrounded by senior Drs and nurses, she ignored or wasn't t advised to get a diagnosis of a mental or personality disorder. SK act on impulse, I don't think impulses can be rationally explained. I know she was on had been taking meds for depression and anxiety. I hope she gets a good psychiatric and psychological evaluation. I feel sad for her too, I think she couldn't control herself due emotional unstability and other underlying mental issues. She was suffering but she was also thrilled by a repeated criminal behaviour.
@@missperfectfeet she was on mental health meds after being accused. As any innocent person would be.she was happy person before she was accused of such crimes
@@simonedury3430 she was taking meds for depressing and anxiety before the accusations. She was not a bubbly happy person people assume because they see pics of her partying.
You make two points and take 22 minutes over it! OK, I get it. I agreed that your interpretation is a valid one, and that the jury felt the same. However, I also feel a different interpretation would also be valid. Letby did not, you say, push that interpretation in cross-examination despite being a person who normally stands her ground. You assume that in her position she would have done otherwise, but the fact is she did not. You assume all the notes were as if printed on her memory, but maybe there was too much for every detail to be foremost in her mind during cross-examination. You say they spent 5 minutes on the green note (you say that a LOT), so unless the prosecution specifically asked her about the "they went" part I see no reason why she should interject that. It follows on from nothing prosecution said. Neither does your suggestion that she was saying that she "had potentially done something wrong" look to me like more than an admission of professional failure. But I get your other point. You were in court for most (?) of the trial and the critics were not, so points of evidence may have escaped them. Whilst that would explain - perhaps - the jury's verdict, it does not invalidate the many other points critics raise in respect of evidence NOT presented in court but should have been. People are concerned for justice and a full presentation of the facts of what happened, and are not just criticising the way the trial itself went. A jury verdict is not, after all, a scientific proof, and no one expects it to be.
You've got a lot of this wrong. It quite clearly says "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" at the top of the post-it. It also quite clearly says "won't". There's even the apostrophe. She wouldn't have said "they went" referring to them saying something about her. She's not a chav. This post-it note means absolutely nothing and for those saying it's a convoluted effort to throw off suspicion, you're obviously reading far too much into meaningless emotional scribblings because you have to, to "prove" her guilt.
Excellent work Jon! You attending court is so valuable to your work and videos. It gives you a unique perspective that I appreciate. I am blown away the notes were a blip in the prosecutions case, but it goes to show that they didn't need them. One small piece in a giant puzzle.
That's what I was thinking, for the prosecution to not make a big deal out of them knowing the other evidence was so strong shows how confident the prosecution was in their case.
Such a lovely clear speaker as well 👌
Not ONE piece of forensic evidence proving beyond all reasonable doubt Lucy Letby's guilt was put before the court, hence she's guiltless of the charges as far as the general public is concerned. You can't just sentence someone to a whole life of imprisonment without evidence of any wrongdoing. What's happening to Lucy is so cruel and unjust.
@thelwulfofnorhymbraland2333 Not one piece of forensic evidence proving beyond reasonable doubt that Harold Shipman killed those people was presented in his trial, the circumstantial evidence though was overwhelming.
@@jimmynich4791good point. I wonder why they didn't spend more time on them? I agree they must have had a lot more evidence. There's so much focus on these notes and I thought they must have been discussing them for weeks
I love hearing your thoughts as someone who was present for some of the trial & have done a great deal of research on this case. Thank you for your hard work
Thanks Candice, when I think of all the journeys I made, 9 hour drives on three separate occasions just to be told a juror was sick and had to drive all the way back after booking hotels etc 😩😩 Comments like that make it worthwhile.
@@CrimeScene2Courtroom oh no
You...by far...make the best coverage videos this Lucy Letby's case. Honestly...fantastic views, opinions, and perspectives on her and what she did. Great job!!
I’d love to see a video about her case for being innocent and all the information her, her team and others have that claim she’s not guilty. Keep up the great work on the case!
ua-cam.com/video/57KpGQ0Nf8c/v-deo.html. believes she is innocent
Norman Fenton/ Dr Scott McLachlan interview, Law Health Technology newsletter substack, David Kurten latest youtube.
@@jobo1053 the Fenton video is not exactly content rich imo
@@Soulboy63 try the substack then
& David Kurten is a known bell end with a chip on his shoulder
If this were the only evidence, I’d say there’s enough reasonable doubt to free her, as I don’t think this is a confession. If anything it seems she barely admits it to herself. However, the combined evidence of the insulin poisoning of the two babies, the keeping of all those handover records, and the fact of her being there for every incident is far more compelling to me.
She wasn't there all the deaths experienced by the department, only the ones she happened to be present at. This is no evidence at all
There's no evidence against Lucy Letby. One of the babies that died of insulin overdose had the prescription rewritten; so it looks like the fault of a doctor. Lucy will be vindicated once the government inquiry is underway and a proper, robust investigation into the alleged acts is undertaken.
So how did she get the insulin into the babies without being observed? David Kurten did an excellent video or two. Norman Fenton and Dr Scott McLachlan did an interview and McLachlan has a substack at Law Health Technology newsletter which could well persuade anyone of her innocence. Also one new to me at rexvlucyletby
I think, it can be overwork and negligence of work as she worked many shifts..
There is no evidence that she added insulin to the TPN bags and none of the bags were tested for the presence of insulin. The test used to determine the presence of artifical insulin in the babies blood was inappropriate and the results should have been declared inadmissible. She was actually present on the ward for less than half of the babies deaths - 17 died during the relative time period and she was rostered on when 8 occurred. Every nurse some times takes handover notes home by accident and if you were being accused of murdering babies I think it is reasonable to take notes home that indicated innocence - only one of her own notes was used in evidence against her. As someone who has worked in forensic psychiatry I think you are right to dismiss this so called confession.
I’ve noticed she wrote over her writing and there is a lot of overlap that creates different messages. I believe that’s intentional. The same as she used code in her diary. She DID expect it to be read one day. Or, that it was a strong possibility. She’s clever. She knows it would be obvious if she tried to mislead people by making a note about her innocence and it would not satisfy the point of writing this. She writes this to get it out. She writes it in a way that alternate meanings can be ascribed to it.
The word ‘went’ looks like another word, ‘want’. ‘They want ‘ Written mid sentence after ‘I can’t be’ = ´I can’t be what they want’ in reference to the line ‘I don’t deserve mum & dad’ it’s just one example - there are better ones that don’t require any inference about meaning. She wrote Tigger & Smudge over a piece that was reportedly found during a search. Before we knew her cats names, people were assuming they were nicknames for her and Dr A. It’s probably what they were - she used her cats names in place of hers and his. Have you looked over the notes and seen how many times different passages written in different pens at different times overlap to create new sentences or just seem to relate to the passages they overlap? It seems too often to be unintentional.
Yes. She threw us all a juicy red herring with that green post it note. Crafty of her
I think it likely says "they can't" after the sentence "how can things ever be like they used to" "they can't". The word HATE is written over "they used to"
Why not get rid of it then? If she had ever used that shredder there would be so much less evidence
There’s no doubt that this is the channel to watch in regards to this case. You have more insight into this case than any other channel I used to watch. You’ve done an amazing job covering this case
He's bias though..
Thank you for putting all these videos together and for attending the court case. I've loved your videos and take on all of this. I heard about this last year and have been waiting to know the outcome and details. You have been so informative and thorough. Enjoy your day, thanks again for these video uploads
You raise some valid points about why Letby did not challenge the prosecutors when they very briefly brought up the notes. We should not forget though that she wrote these notes after being accused of these crimes, and in a stressed mental state, possibly aggravated by prescribed psychiatric drugs. I imagine that before and during the trial, she was still in this stressed state so could not really think clearly about her emotions when writing the notes, only what she did or did not do during 2015-2016, years earlier.
That's her evidence, 'she was a scapegoat' as opposed to about 1 year of gathering evidence by 60 detectives.
I would be curious as to when those pictures of her were taken as she seemed relaxed and enjoying her time out drinking with friends/ coworkers especially if ,as you say, she may have been stressed or prescribed psychiatric drugs, especially if she was still allowed to work with those babies except for the time they had her do desk work. Did any prescribed drugs come up in court?
@@yvetteschneider5172 I'm not sure when she wrote those notes. Maybe she always wrote notes, they found new notes everytime they arrested her.
@@yvetteschneider5172 The pictures of Lucy Letby that are shown on rotation, over and over again in nearly every news report or video about the trial look like they were taken around 2012-2014, when she first started work as a nurse.I say this because she looks very similar in them to her university graduation photo, which I believe was in 2011. She was only prescribed psychiatric drugs after her first arrest, which if i am not mistaken was in 2018, and after she was moved to desk duty.
@@missperfectfeet And during that one year and 60 detectives they did not find one fingerprint on syringes, one piece of DNA on hospital equipment matching Letby's, one record of who exactly had the keys to the insulin fridge or one photo or reel of video footage showing Letby doing the things she is accused of. Zero, nada, zilch.
I have really enjoyed these videos and look forward to them. You have done a remarkable job in covering this case and have presented everything fairly and accurately without sensationalising! Well done, well done, well done…and a huge thank you for covering such a tough and emotional case.
Thank you, I genuinely appreciate that ❤️
@@CrimeScene2Courtroom According to much of the prosecutions rationale this is not supposed top be enjoyable nor even appreciable. Why stir up sociological - psychological- Essentialist & Existentialist consensus of JOY you video cannot be seen to be consistent with ?
Is there something wrong with YOU - Pra * ?
I completely disagree with your reading of the green note. It says, 'How will things ever be like they used to - they won't.' If you look, under the word FEAR is the word 'to'.
I don't think 'they went' is an idiom Letby would use. She is quite well spoken and 'they went' is slang she wouldn't use. If she did, it would appear in her texts and it doesn't.
Otherwise, great video. I look forward to your upcoming videos discussing why people think she's innocent. (Spoiler: she's guilty.)
I 100% agree.
🙌 Yes, this is exactly what I thought too, she’s very well spoken she would never use ‘they went’ as they said, she’s too posh
Totally - I saw this too. There is an apostrophe in the word Won't which confirms this.
Well that made that clear. Thanks! The way that note has been shown, over and over again on media, it came across as essential evidence to the case.
Gosh, I love this channel, it continually picks over the questions going through my mind. I bet the jurors had talks about all these things too.
Yeah, all of us Lucy Letby junkies can't get enough of this channel.
She may have been really stressed and not thinking correctly. (Maybe she's just exhausted).
She has to have a calm disposition with the job she had.
She is hyperthetically speaking about what they said to her, and that they think she was an Evil person. They think she is an Evil person., if they think she's Evil and worthless, her life is not worth living.
Way to many loose ends in this case and trial.
Could not agree more. It could be all kinds of things. The notes could have been added to by some corrupt person. I find it shocking also how the public is like a whole gang of hyaenas. It creeps me out. And these channels are totally adding to it, they increase the public hate.
so why didnt her defence bring up the note and point out she was writing what the police said to her , not what she thought of herself
@@StellaKnights because they were useless.
@@jobo1053 no , becasue those were her thoughts about herself , she did it
@@StellaKnights whatever. I don't myself believe that there is tangible proof.
Thanks so much for your in depth explanations in this case and for putting this note business in a clearer perspective. Brilliant coverage as usual.
That is not a confession. No matter how you spin it. She did not say she did it. In fact she has denied every time her guilt. It must have been exhausting and distressing that no one is listening to her. How often do you have to explain your innocence before you give up?
Listen to what? "It wasn't me", "i don't recall", "No", "I don't think i can answer that". Yes very profound
@randommatrix4180 Lol 👍
The Covis vaccine is behind this whole case.
Her trial was the opportunity to defend herself. Her attorney called a plumber, she took the stand in her own defense, which was when she should have shown emotion and answered questions to indeed defend herself.
I’d never give up explaining my innocence if I was accused of being such a horrific serial killer…just me?
Just found your channel. You provide excellant coverage , commentary, and intelligent insight!!
This is what the note reads....
Today is your birthday, but you aren’t here + I am so sorry for that
Im sorry that you couldn’t have the chance at life + for the pain that your
Parents must experience everyday. We tried our best + it wasn’t enough
I don’t know if many people will think of you today or any day but I do +
I ???? ????? always remember because you should be.
I can’t do this anymore, I want someone to help me but they can’t so
what’s the point in asking. Hate my life.
Please do a transcript of what was asked of Doctor A and his responses please❤❤
I agree I'd love to know what his testimony was in regard to lucy
I’d also love to know why he was so protected and if anyone knows who he was…
@@HLB313
I’d imagine because he was a cheating PoS, as well as the proof of him sending Loser Letby emails from the closed meetings with the higher-ups, giving her info she wasn’t supposed to have, wanting to protect her, etc. - none of which would bode well for him when searching for a different job or relocating to get away from this whole situation. He was probably hesitant to testify (or testify fully/truthfully if subpoenaed) and didn’t want his identity released publicly if he did. I think the employees of the hospital were asked if they were comfortable with their identities being revealed - some said yes, others said no. (I think)
I very much wish they released his name, but if I were in his shoes, I’d fight to have my name redacted too! 😂😬
His poor wife. She probably had no idea. Imagine finding out the person you love and trust and made a family with, had - at MINIMUM - an emotional affair with his coworker… but then to find out in such a public way. Knowing everyone you personally know in your life is piecing it together and finding out the details of the worst time in your life. I hope she left him. I truly do. My heart breaks for her. I’ve had that moment of finding out everything I thought was real, was a lie - I can’t imagine it being all over the news, too. 💔
Fantastic video, so thank you once again,Jon. If we were in a pub I'd buy you a drink right now. I'm glad you've pointed out that the post it notes weren't used by judge and jury as justification for guilty verdict. That was clever, sound justice not to rely on the post it notes, since other evidence was stronger
They were important. Just the mere mention of them stuck in the minds of the jury and the judge and everyone else who either believes it’s confessional, it’s meant to throw off the case or she’s just a stupid word doodler of feelings. Both sides referenced the notes several times. I honestly can’t believe the notes were even allowed. How would the anyone know what that stuff was referring to?
It’s circumstantial at best and doesn’t assert anything to the accusation not evidentiary evidence baseless
#CrimeScene2Courtroom
I suggest (in defence) the length of time she had already spent in jail; may have caused a shift in her mental stability. I was in a case and by the time the hearing took place I was so emotionally and physically exhausted I was easily tricked by the judge, because i.just wanted it over and done with. The way trials are or can be convoluted is enough to drive the sensitive to distraction.
She is GUILTY AF ...not "sensitive"
@@JoTracy sensitised* BTW I wasn't guilty but was found guilty of flikking the perpetrators nose for her consistent harassment and malicious communications. Even after the perp admitted to.pushing me into it..
The streamer will be looking into.possibilities of innocence..you'll have no need to watch those!!
That’s a fair point you make
yet , all that time on prison and all the meetings with lawyers should hve prepared her for every question ,
Nope, I don't agree, she's a smart cookie. She knows she's guilty. we know she's guilty. When its your whole life in jail if found guilty, there is no way you just want it over and done with. If innocent you'd fight for freedom, until the day you die. Well, I would anyway.
That letter to the triplets is weird, birthday wishes. Looking at her bedroom, her bedroom is of a,16 year old, her bed etc. Not a grown women's bedroom. She may have a child like inner self possibly. Maybe thats why she wrote such a birthday wish to the triplets.
This is a terrible crime, I cannot wrap my head around it. Its extremely sad and unbelievably evil
so you're saying that a person's bedroom can determine whether they are guilty or not? Are people not allowed to have furry toys in their bedroom at any age? I have a beautiful suede type cat and a furry bear in my bedroom, given to me as presents , one from my sister and one from my best friend, for my fortieth birthday .... they are proudly on display.
❤Thank you SO much! I haven't heard this info and you helpful breakdown and how this wasn't a huge part of the case, and also her personality in speaking up!
Jon thank you for pointing the fullness of that note out
It gives better insight to what the fullness of that note is about
I’ve said since day one that Lucy upset a senior nurse (more experienced but less qualified)
That nurse had a doctors ear
Lucy knew she was sunk (irrespective of guilt or innocence) and I don’t think she put up much fight about anything
That "HATE". Shes saying everybody at her unit (eg: those four doctors) hate her. So many more people need to be brought to tial in this case. (Total Neglect). The hospital management are disgusting. (Actions speak louder than words) their actions were "Evil".
Word is she had the hots for a Dr and when the babies went downhill, guess who turns up, that Dr. Some people are so twisted on the inside, and some are incredible at hiding it.
I watched a interview with one of the uk top criminologist he said this not a confession. It’s normal behaviour of someone under stress to make notes like this.
I agree the 'hypergraphia' can be a 'coping mechanism' or venting of stress but it wasn't the damming evidence of culpability. Her room wasn't particularly childish either, as has been reported. Unfortunately it's common to demonise all aspects of personality when someone is found guilty. The police didn't zero in on LL alone they worked from scratch. It takes a lot to even bring a case to trial. The jury heard and studied everything. We didn't.
Why dont ypu cover the fact 17 babies died during that period and Letby wasnt there for 10 of those deaths. The unit was also upgraded then downgraded for the exact time period of these SEVENTEEN deaths.
Not 17 deaths, 17 murder attempts. 7 murders and 10 attempted murders
@phillipaclemons7261 no, there were baby 17 death during this time period. However, 10 where not mentioned in court because letby was not on shift.
Read the discovery you muppet.
Behave mark this letby is one evil horrible woman who deserves the death sentence not a chance she’s innocent
@garyjones407 why were 10 death omitted from the evidence? Because Letby was not on shift for those death, thus destroying the prosecution case. Read the discovery you muppet.
Another excellent job of resetting the dial. Superb coverage within this channel right from the beginning of the case
Thank you for all the work you have put into this case. Ive never commented before but I watched everyone that you did on the missing lady earlier this year too. I look forward to your videos. Thanks
Same here. This is my first stop for "She looks so normal, but she's so evil" content
Thank you for making this video. And your other coverage has been very informative and very much needed to understand how and why in such an awful case
I think the placement of that notes in the cross examination is the key point. They didn't need to spend 10 hours talking about the notes, the information is plain to see. The fact it was the last 5 minutes 100% makes them one of the most important pieces of evidence.
Americans use the phrase "they went," in the same way. I appreciate your covering this case so thoroughly!
Thank you for your look at the case. As far as what people will say about her guilt or innocence, I agree. The most likely explanation is that they really haven't looked closely at the case, but looking for " gotcha" moments as an attempt to elicit a reaction from other people.
The only safe verdict would have been, "Guilty and Not Guilty, but what does it matter?
Why is it your belief that only people who agree with LL being guilty have followed the case and those that do not, didn't?
@@artg9418 You're absolutely right.
Great job..shining a light on this case,and all the intriceses..damning evidence throughout
Oh could you point me to this damning evidence please
@@21upbowls fuzzy wuzzy was a bear 🐻
Your an absolute work horse, cheers for all the content I literally have you channel running 24/ 7 while I'm at work, in the shower. Great content 🎉
I think it would be a good a idea to go down the avenue that perhaps she is innocent? The truth shall prevail nevertheless. Great work!
very well could be? But there should be proper examinations, especially cause we're so smart today, and informed, and with AI supporting us?? we can surely find the truth?????????@@jono1457-qd9ft
Top man, excellent analysis 👌
People will always want to feel smarter than others. Claiming an obviously guilty person is innocent is a great way to feel that.
Or else it's simply an indication they're misguided....in the same way some shoplifters don't feel they're doing anything wrong.
Applause for your diligence and insights.
Just FYI, Americans say that "they went" thing too, though it's more often "So she goes, that shirt makes you look terrible, so I go, it's none of your business what I wear," but it's very similar. "You went and ran your mouth," would be easily understood here, particularly in the south.
I really want to hear more from Team Innocent so that I can understand their perspective. My best friend is a criminal barrister and barristers like to win cases. Additionally, they would have known that Lucy's whole life was at stake... This isn't a time to play small or give 50%. With this in mind, if there was good evidence to prove her innocence, what prevented Lucy and her barrister sharing this information? Tactics that I would have taken to prove my innocence would include demonstrating that some mysterious deaths also occured when I was on annual leave or banned from the ward, emphasising that my note said "They went ..." and having at least one medical professional as a witness who could state under oath that these deaths and responses to resus are all completely normal ones. Why was there not a single doctor they could find who could argue this? 🤔
Yes!!! Social manipulation at its most obvious
I think that the jury should have spent longer than 5 minutes discussing these notes because it would have given more guidance in their interpretation. It was asserted from the onset that these were confessions, designed to sway the Jurys opinion from the onset. in my view they should never have been allowed in the courtroom.
They are not coherent pieces of writing and could be interpreted in several different ways. My own interpretation was that they were an expression of somebody being pushed to the edge. If I was in my 20s and my senior colleagues said my practice was bad or even that might have deliberately damaged babies I also would start to believe it.
Whether it was 5 minutes or 5 hours on the subject it has had a massive impact on people's view of whether or not she is guilty.
I have a very wide circle of Friends and run a picture service and meet all different kinds of people of all different occupations and intellects.
Most of them believe that's the Post-it notes are strong evidence of guilt and believe them to be confessions.
Congratulations your coverage of this case is A1. Truly.....👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
There are 700,000 nurses in the UK. Even if a series of tragedies like this have a 1 in 7 million chance of occurring, you would expect them to happen every ten years. I had no idea that her note read "they went..." that changes everything. Combined with the sewage issue, the case against her looks extremely flimsy. I think the media and the left want scapegoats who look like her.
if she meant the note that way why didnt she defend it in court , I guess you missed the whole point of this video
@@StellaKnights for that matter if she was guilty why did she let the police see the notes.
@@chriswatkin5476 she wasn't like 'hey come and look here, pay special attention to the green post it'
@@StellaKnights OK, I will watch it, gave up half way. Maybe she just has limited intelligence and was the type of person in need of a good lawyer, from what I saw her defense was unbelievably incompetent.
@@StellaKnights maybe because it was never going to be a deciding factor either way, like he said in the vid?
How about the "you" in "you aren't here" refers to "all 3 of you" or "the two of you"? How about these are notes in which she just writes down whatever thoughts she had and she doesn't know what made her write down these exact words? There are also notes that are just scribbles that don't contain words, should we takes those as confessions or drafts for sympathy cards too?
This case is absolutely ridiculous.
So if you expressly name somebody in a note saying you’re no longer with us, and you’re accused of trying to kill them, then that isn’t suspicious at all is it?
She had some sort of weekly wellbeing counselling at one point. I wonder if they told her to write her fears and anxieties down as a way of managing stress. Because it's got that tone about it.
That is what therapists do: they advise you to keep a journal and write down your worries etc.
For what it's worth, I have a Masters in Criminology and I'm also British. Letby does not get an appeal unless she can bring forward new evidence that if heard might have influenced the jury to return a verdict of not guilty. You don't just get an appeal because you don't agree with the verdict. After a trial lasting ten months it's highly unlikely something was missed.
Realistically, the chances of anyone facing seven whole life terms being granted an appeal, is virtually non-existent. It would be deemed a waste of taxpayers money.
The appeal can be one of conviction or sentence. Obviously, Letby would appeal against conviction so the sentence is immaterial.@@Brian-om2hh
I think what she meant by writing “they went” was actually they died. She is well spoken and sounds educated. Usually uneducated people would say they went, rather than they said, or what one instead of which one etc. 🤔
That is exactly what I thought! She wrote "they went" as in "they have gone" or "they passed", which is what some people say as a more polite way to say "they died".
As ever, interesting analysis. Thanks for your work. I also enjoyed The Essex Boys stuff you've done.
@michaelslater3131 , yes mate, also a follower since watching the footsoldier films etc, 30 years on , lots of debate and speculation , I doubt the truth will ever be known who un-alived them.
Lucy did not confess
The doctors dhoukd have gone straight to the safeguarding local team to alert. Something about the fact they didnt seems important to me
That is exactly why autopsies need to be carried out on these doctors.
I wonder if there is more notes like that? And how far they go back? I think one or 2 notes might just be trying to make up something for reasonable doubt.
Thankyou for helping us understand this case better 🇦🇺
This is absolutely brilliant
The assertion that Letby's post it note is a confession demonstrates a lack of understanding of nurse training requirements. It is clearly a reflective note that nurses are required to produce as part of there training and they are encouraged to continue this practise as graduates. I have always encouraged my students not to do this or if they do, to distroy them because such notes can be used against them. Having strong opinions is not evidence of murder. You have no understanding of what it is like to be subject to immense pressure for several years.
No consultant or NHS staff member, has time to master plan a set up of this nature. She's guilty, it's purely because she doesn't look like a killer, that people are reluctant to agree with that fact I believe. I think so much media disinformation isn't helping, not only this case but society in general at the moment, sees everyone questioning everything. Great work thanks again for incredible coverage 🏆
Yeah the cops and prosecutors and people losing the most money don’t ever lie or find scapegoats. How’s that sewage looking today? Any better?
Still found time to fuck about during a so called "pandemic" though, didn't they?
Oh and “general at the moment…” Wtf is wrong with you? Just born yesterday? Never had a history class? Never met a human that shouldn’t have lived?
If she had small eyes ' upward eyebrows ' a pointed nose and thin lips ' she wouldn't have supporters.
@@missperfectfeet😂 that's true. Beverley Allitt was a fat munter with a shit haircut who 100% deserved to be convicted. But Lucy is fit, so she's obviously not guilty.
The baby murders started the day AFTER she had attended a hen party of a her work colleague.
In her own writing she complains, " ...I will never have children.. ".
The timeline video alleges envy and jealousy as her motives.
Hen parties are inherently dangerous.
yeah couldnt bear to see someone else happy , we all had friends like that
I doubt that she started killing at baby A & i say that bacause of the brazeness of that situation. She was surrounded by 4 doctors in the same room. Of course i could be wrong but i think she is gonna be guilty of far more murders over the next few years
@@daisydargan9336 I agree, from caring for 4000 only the official seven couples will get compensation.
@@daisydargan9336 It's hot on the news channels that she threw two old ladies under a bus, causing their deaths. So far the evidence is only circumstantial, but I mean, that's enough. Innit, Daisy?
Excellent analysis!
Great assessment! What really does it for me apart from everything else is the big increase in neonatal deaths whilst she works there; she is there/on shift for every single death and collapse, when she was moved to days, the deaths/collapse moved to days with her and when she was removed completely they all stopped, plus everything else the prosecution presented plus the notes, they proved her guilt
NOT every death. There were 31-33 deaths in that period (for some reason we don't know exactly how many). There were 15 deaths considered as suspicious by the consultants which was whittled down to the 8 that Letby was present for (one was rejected by the judge). This information was not brought up at the trial - at least, if it was, this channel has not yet picked it up.
@@fredneecher1746the police checked and eliminated anyone else on various shifts. It sounds like you are saying they the consultants chose those cases simply because Letby was on shift? Maybe I'm mistaken. Even if the consultants tried to do this, the police wouldn't have been interested unless there was something to investigate. They took months and months looking into them all and eliminated other people and then the trial was 10 months.
@@fredneecher1746 why on earth would other deaths be brought up at trial when she wasn't charged with them? It makes no sense. You can't expect Myers to say "look over there, she didn't kill these babies, so she can't have killed these ones". It's irrelevant. Either they weren't murders when looked into or there wasn't enough to take them to trial. It's standard that the prosecution goes with the charges they are most likely to get a conviction with
As usual the standard of your work awesome. I believe many of the debunkers are simply trying to gain views from people who don't know the facts and will be hood winked into thinking there's a lot more to the note than there actually was. The best example of this is the very one you used. Lucy herself had more than ample opportunity to try and mold the contents of these notes to either soften the meaning of the notes or even try and use them to bolster her case. She seemed to do neither and simply accepted the prosecutions interpretation of the notes.
It s all about reasonable doubt and a lack of tangible evidence. Although I was not in court, from what I have heard I have not heard one shred of EVIDENCE that convinces me, beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty. 😊
Not on there own i agree but when it was all expertly put toghether by Nicolas Johnson it painted a damming picture and that all pointed to lucy letby
That's probably because you were not at the trial. Nor did you spend time examining the 33'000 pages of evidence.
Hello, and thank you for this video…….. to be honest, I’ve got mixed views on this case one minute I say, innocent, next minute I say guilty …… kim🇬🇧
It could be argued that rather than describing what people had been saying, that she was talking about the parents, or other staff members leaving, thus giving her the opportunity to attack - “they went, I did this”.
You’re absolutely right. On the scale of things, that note didn’t mean much of anything
I watched a video by MP David kurten and he says there were 17 deaths in the unit which Lucy was not present for 9. Is this true or false?
@mancauditor1001 maybe they just don't know, like we don't know.
They may not have used the notes much but they first planted that tabloid style seed at the start and then brought it up again in the closing. Like you say, it was important for the tabloids and therefore the people that buy them so could’ve been a tactic by the prosecution,
Maybe? That triplet note though is massive I think.
I write notes too, mainly shopping lists and to do lists.
While I haven't finished watching all of your cross examination transcript videos so I'm not fully up to date with exactly what has been said for all the cases, the biggest indicator of her guilt to me is how terrible her defense has been; she has had at least five years to work out exactly what she should say while being questioned and seeing how she has been locked up for 2 of those years before her trial began she wouldn't have had much else to do in her spare time (and she would have had a lot of spare time), but still the best she could come up with is things like "I don't know" and "I can't remember". If I had been falsely accused of murdering 7 babies I would be making it my life's mission to remember exactly where I was, who I was with and any other event leading up to the babies deaths that would help me prove it wasn't me. To me, the only reason you would say "I can't remember" whilst being questioned where you were at the time of one of the babies collapsing and/or dying is if you can actually remember but know that if you told them what actually happened it would be a confession that you did kill them, and you also know that if you lied and said you were somewhere else they would have a witness to prove otherwise (for example, if she was in room 1 injecting air into a baby, she doesn't know where anyone else was in the unit, so she couldn't have said she was actually in room 2 because she doesn't know for sure if there was someone else in room 2 or not that would prove she was lying). Thank you for your coverage. RIP to all the little babies.
What you say is common sense, realistic psychological analysis, but a lot of people reduce it to power, she's powerless so she is innocent. It's about how rubbish the police the NHS and the judicial system are.
She was found guilty in the court of common sense before the trial even commenced. Why bother with a a trial when you can just ask Elsie from number 23, Gammon Street? It doesn't make sense..
what utter nonsense. So saying 'i cant remember' is a sign of guilt? Hope you're not on my jury. What do you suggest someone says that cant remember then?
@@silasrocco I would say, "I can't remember,' but that might turn the court of common sense against me. What was I saying?
@@silasrocco she could have said 'yes I remember because I was totally shocked, but I couldn't understand anything'
Good point! … wish we could see her cross examination.
I read that people are saying she's innocent and wasn't a fair trial ?
Maybe its because the jury were not given all the facts. The unit during this period had 19 deaths, 5he police only presented the ones where LL was on duty. Did the police mention all the other handover sheets in bags or just the ones of the day of the babies deaths, most nurses take home handover sheets intheir pockets and they quickly build up to be shredded. One thing that has struck me is where are say the school freinds, colleagues, neighbour's etc.. whenever there's a killer conviction people want their 5 minutes fame in MSM with their accounts, something they did or said in the past, a loner or just odd. Huntley, Mary Bell Yorkshire Ripper and many more had countless stories, with LL we have had nothing. Why also when all his Dr freinds are screaming from the rooftops does Dr A have a need to be anonymous??
In my opinion, they are wrong. Up to Lucy now to prove her innocence, I don't think she can. The notes show that very clearly, what was going on inside Lucy was extrememly well hidden. and showed some serious mental health issues.
@@zed4225It's never up to the person on trial to prove their innocence.It's up to the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.They did'nt do that,therefore the jury made the totally wrong decision.
Love listening to your thoughts!
i still can't believe that she was being investigated for years before she was arrested and she didn't erase all evidences like this and kept it together with patient's notes . that confidence is mostly seen in murderers. they are determined to continue till they get caught.
Handover sheets are not patient notes.They're handwritten notes made by nurses to refer to during their shift.Nurses always accidentally take them home in their pockets.It's not that deep.
After so many years i dont think she will be coaping well and thinking clearly like is suggested. Its an unbelievable amount of pressure fro anyone to cope with. She probably is numb and dissociative state
I can't imagine what state I would be in after been locked up for 2 years and then having to appear on trial.
@@gingerjessy Are you able to imagine what sort of state the parents of those dead infants might be in? Sod Letby. She's wrecked many people's lives here......
So great to hear from someone who sat through most of the trial. It's difficult if people cannot watch the trial to weigh the value of the state's case. As someone who heard the entirety of the state's case against her do you feel that they proved her guilt beyond all reasonable doubt, such that you would have voted guilty if you were on the jury?
What I dont follow is, for ex. the insulin found later (apparently all but one of these infants had been autopsied at the time and all were label 'natural causes'). But years later they find this insulin. How did they prove she's the one who put it in there? Same with air she supposedly injected into their bloodstreams and bellies,, even if that could be proven, how do we know she's the one who did it? This is what Im not following, after having heard many claims, is how they proved beyond all reasonable doubt that only Letby could have been responsible. Everything about the way she behaved on the stand seem to me the way and innocent person would act: upset and defensively. Making her defend internet searches she did on people she encountered,, in whatever way she did, is just ludicrous. But obviously that is not what convinced you of her guilt, -if indeed you are convinced of her guilt. tx again.
Yes please 🙏🏾 the transcripts will be great 👍
That looks like it says "they won't" to me. Like she is writing that in response to herself after saying how can things ever be like they used to.
Maybe she meant 'they went ' ie the babies 'I did this'..she was responsible for them 'going '
possibly ?
1) CCTV is essential both outside and inside.
2) Two keys must be turned at the same time and be 20 ft apart for entry.
3) No one should be allowed alone inside the nursery ward.
When the NHS are cutting so many corners this will be the first to go!
Why on earth didn't the doctor's go to the police straight away if they genuinely believed she was killing babies????
Why didn't Lucy Letby discuss the fact with management that she felt unable and incapable of providing appropriate care for those infants, instead of killing them? Remember, she wrote notes to the effect that she did not feel "good enough" to look after them....
Brilliant work. Is it possible LL didn't argue with the barrister over the note because she presumed he had read and understood 'they went'? (I completely understand such notes have no real legal weight - but a full understanding of what was written does debunk the existence of a 'confession' that is routinely trotted out by press etc). On the otherhand, the triplets note seems VERY disturbing. I presume you covered it in your reporting - but I hadn't grasped the significance of it - and I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere.
With regard to the green note, I don't think it says "They went...": given the style of the writing I read it as "How will things ever be like they used to. They won't".
Also, regarding addressing a note to the triplets - while I agree addressing it in this manner to all three is odd, how would she be planning to kill the third infant after they had already been discharged from hospital..?
Excellent work. Have you done a video on insulin poisoning? I believe her diary is ambiguous as evidence as you suggest, Has intentional poisoning been confirmed? Whether by Lucy of anyone else?
Looking at the yellow note, it seems to me she could have been talking about "my best friend". It then mentions a woman's name, then Tigger. The triplets' names do not come immediately before "today is your birthday".
This doesn’t have anything to do with the case but you have a really nice voice it makes listening to these videos a lot easier and it never gets boring
I feel like this too. Especially places like TikTok. There’s certain points being pushed out, and lot of people grab onto it. I’d direct anyone here, as this is where I’ve learned most. X
It clearly says '- they can't', and is the same style and orientation as the writing to the left and above it. The full sentence reads 'How will things ever be like [they used to] - they can't'... The 'they used to' is partially below the circle around 'hate', and partially beneath the R of 'fear'. Apologies if you do actually get to this in the video, I just can't believe people have been looking at this note and seeing it any other way.
Jon great channel. I just wish the management consultants were also investigated by the police to see what was going on at this time.
It's important to remember that the jury decisions were not unanimous - all decisions were 10 - 1, except for one unanimous 'not guilty.' Considering too the length of time the jury took to reach their verdicts, there was clearly reasonable doubt amongst the jury. With one more vote, she would have walked free. I cannot say for certain that she is innocent but I think that there is enough doubt for me to remain unconvinced by the arguments of the prosecution. A good defence barrister would have a field day
So if she's innocent, even though she is sometimes the only nurse present when the babies go downhill, and is always there when the murders happen, exactly who then is the alternative murderer?
My argument is not that she is innocent, it is that the jury had reasonable doubts. I cannot speculate on an alternative suspect
Great commentary on a bizarre and complex case. However, like most others it concludes by asking if Lucy is innocent or guilty. I know many babies have sadly been killed, but I've yet to hear questions asked about a third possible dimension. That is, Lucy's diagnosis or rationale.
Are we even sure they were killed? Of the 7 babies she is accused of, the post mortem verdict was natural causes. This was rejected solely on the evidence of Dr Dewi Evans on the basis of hospital notes, not actual bodies.
Very interesting. Says 'not good energy' rather than 'not good enough' on renderings of notes - is that just a typo?
OK so I've just paused and paused this to look at the note...... 1. That absolutely foes not say 'when' it looks more like won't or can't......
2 now look at it as a sentence with the words that are blocked out by the circle around the word Hate....
That sentence reads
How will I get through it
How will things ever be like they....... ed
So would the sentence not look like it says how will things ever be like they used ..
Next line small dot/squiggle then "they wont" Then dramatical change in writing force I DID THIS
Look at that as a more probable and likely sentence given the handwriting... her e's are always very clear so it sn't 'went' she is writing.
So
How will things ever be like they used to they won't I I DID THIS
Never forget that this note and this note alone was described as a 'confession'. But it is FAR from that... very far from that.
You made a very valid point, but sadly one that trips you over. You said that these notes came at the very start and at the very end of a gruelling 50hrs of being in the stand. That is a Barristers commonest trick, the defendant thinks they can go back but a week apsses and by then it's gone "esprit d'escalier" the French barristers cal it.
The store you put by it is wrong in my opinion.
If you hold store that it's a confession then equally it's an exoneration because in the same note she wrote "I haven't done anything wrong" a genuinely counterposing phrae to the I did this after she was interviewed by the hospital.
The notes weren’t really a big deal. I suggest taking a look back at the last day of cross examination and you will see for yourself. It is a big deal to yourself because the content itself is interesting but they played no major role whatsoever in court.
So how about the "I killed them on purpose" note? How do you explain that away?
Is there any way to forensically date that yellow note to the triplets? If it was proved to be written before the first death then it would be totally damning.
Very interesting 👌
how did u get courtroom acsess ??
Members of the public can attend court cases. They can sit in public area.
I always look forward to your videos. You’ve done a great job covering this awful, complicated case. Thank you. I still can’t get over that she refused to attend the sentencing. It seems like if she was innocent she would have tried one last time to declare her innocence to the parents. Instead she gave them one last slap in the face. I think that shows her real character.
If she cared about the parents and her colleagues she wouldn't be there
Maybe she had something else on. There's only 24 hours in a day.
🤣
Exactly
Maybe if you were in her place and innocent you wouldn’t want to be there either
The fact she actually wrote on a post-it note is interesting to me….post-it notes are a massively important thing for people with ADHD (I have ADHD) and I have to keep notes of everything otherwise I just lose information in its entirety. A diagnosis before a trial would have been advantageous for her and the defence as diminished responsibility would have been something they could work with. Unfortunately it’s a hidden disability and if you don’t see it then you don’t necessarily look for it. Sadly it’s another case of disability discrimination and a diagnosis now may put the whole trial under more scrutiny and possibly a re-trial, which there may not be a stomach for and that’s why the possibility is being ignored.
Ausistic as she kept things couldnt bin things..i feel sorry for her..i really dont think shes done this..there is no real evidance.m autistic people dont lie
Be careful what you write on those notes, who knows they may one day be used against you in court.
She studied nursing and worked 5 or 6 years in 2 different hospitals. It's hard to believe that being a healthcare professional surrounded by senior Drs and nurses, she ignored or wasn't t advised to get a diagnosis of a mental or personality disorder.
SK act on impulse, I don't think impulses can be rationally explained. I know she was on had been taking meds for depression and anxiety. I hope she gets a good psychiatric and psychological evaluation. I feel sad for her too, I think she couldn't control herself due emotional unstability and other underlying mental issues. She was suffering but she was also thrilled by a repeated criminal behaviour.
@@missperfectfeet she was on mental health meds after being accused. As any innocent person would be.she was happy person before she was accused of such crimes
@@simonedury3430 she was taking meds for depressing and anxiety before the accusations. She was not a bubbly happy person people assume because they see pics of her partying.
I think regarding the tripled note she was referring to their due birth dates, not their birthdays as in one year old.happy birthday
You make two points and take 22 minutes over it! OK, I get it. I agreed that your interpretation is a valid one, and that the jury felt the same. However, I also feel a different interpretation would also be valid. Letby did not, you say, push that interpretation in cross-examination despite being a person who normally stands her ground. You assume that in her position she would have done otherwise, but the fact is she did not. You assume all the notes were as if printed on her memory, but maybe there was too much for every detail to be foremost in her mind during cross-examination. You say they spent 5 minutes on the green note (you say that a LOT), so unless the prosecution specifically asked her about the "they went" part I see no reason why she should interject that. It follows on from nothing prosecution said. Neither does your suggestion that she was saying that she "had potentially done something wrong" look to me like more than an admission of professional failure.
But I get your other point. You were in court for most (?) of the trial and the critics were not, so points of evidence may have escaped them. Whilst that would explain - perhaps - the jury's verdict, it does not invalidate the many other points critics raise in respect of evidence NOT presented in court but should have been. People are concerned for justice and a full presentation of the facts of what happened, and are not just criticising the way the trial itself went. A jury verdict is not, after all, a scientific proof, and no one expects it to be.
You've got a lot of this wrong.
It quite clearly says "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" at the top of the post-it.
It also quite clearly says "won't". There's even the apostrophe.
She wouldn't have said "they went" referring to them saying something about her. She's not a chav.
This post-it note means absolutely nothing and for those saying it's a convoluted effort to throw off suspicion, you're obviously reading far too much into meaningless emotional scribblings because you have to, to "prove" her guilt.