as a Naya mage with entirely combat focused decks, I prioritize opponents in roughly this order: if they're taking self damage by cracking fetch lands and shocking shock lands, I'll attack them. If they're passively drawing extra cards, I'll attack them. If they've refrained from playing chump blockers, I'll attack them. If they just happen to be Blue, I'll attack them. This works most of the time.
I think this was pretty spot on. Personally for me I base games off who is the better player first. As I’ve found that has led to winning more games. But at this point I know I’m a season player and everything else is just kinda on default for me. I know the combos, I know the cards, so the only thing that freaks me out as a player is a player who understands the stack// interaction better than I. A lot of players will just give away like idk obvious miss plays ( I.e playing an instant on your main phase). So that to me just tells me they don’t really know the lines, and puts me mentally at ease. Ye but definitely think these are the correct steps in threat assesment.
I'm an Esper guy. I play Oloro, Merieke Ri Berit and 2 partner deck, Tymna+Silas and Tymna/Sakashima. I focus a lot on control and interaction. My PG recently told me that I was probably the best if not 2nd best player in our group. And that's why I get the Archenemy title all the time. They told me it's nothing personal, I'm just scary. So, perhaps being too good at threat assessment makes you the problem? Or maybe it helps other get better at the game? 😂
I think something they didn’t touch on but alluded to is quite important: understanding your position in the game. If you’re playing an aggro deck, go harder at the green ramp player because they will dominate in the late game. If you’re the threat, embrace it and start moving to take players out of the game instead of trying to spread the love. If your commander can kill with commander damage, prioritize hitting the life gain player with it. Etc etc. Threat assessment is dynamic and because someone is “the threat” doesn’t always mean they are the threat TO YOU. You can greatly increase your win percentage by understanding your deck’s strong and weak points which they did mention, but I think some more concrete examples helps.
As someone who plays neither voltron nor lifegain decks, wouldn't it make more sense to leave the lifegain player for last, as you can nullify their deck with your commander damage, whereas they seem like a big obstacle/threat to the other 2 players?
@@bejita7831I feel like if you leave the lifegain deck for too long, they’ll build enough of a board state that you can’t beat them later on. Or they use a combo that uses life to kill you when it’s too late.
@@bejita7831 If you have a commander that can kill through Commander Damage, you are the biggest threat to the lifegain player so they will be targeting you. In this case, they are a large threat to you, because you are by far the biggest threat to them.
As someone that has been constantly struggling with understanding threat assessment with the monthly games I play with friends, this is great to have to understand what I can do to make my performance better
The greatest threat is playing a tapped, untyped land that gains you 1 life. As opposed to someone fetching and shocking in for a turn 1 drop like esper, sol ring or fish
A really good video. When I play with players of a certain experience, I prefer to help them learn by dropping phrases like: "And nooow, you can officially start an alliance against me." "And nooow, I am one Overrun-effect away from closing the game" "And nooow, my game economy is very close to God-mode" Why am I doing this? Cause I am sick of newbies not learning threat assessment because they get constantly gaslighted and firehouses by experienced players.
@@mightyhulk1483 If someone hates that practice, you could potentially make an enemy even if you don’t attack them gf the die roll. I speak as someone that hates that crap and I will target players that do so both because I hate it and it means they’re more unpredictable so they gotta go asap.
"I'd rather waste mana than a card" is a very impactful statement. Either inexperienced players or players with a lot of experience in 1v1 formats come in with the exact opposite thinking, taking any chance to take action. But resource economy, life, mana and cards, also information and action economy change substantially with more than one opponent. It's harder for any 1-for-1 interaction to have meaningful impact, or for chips of damage to feel relevant against an initial 120 total, so identifying the right spots to tip the scales becomes more profitable than shooting everything on sight, although when overdone, you might not get another chance. My key question for most decisions is "what's the worst case scenario, and can I handle that?"
In my playgroup, one of the biggest threats at our table is the planeswalker party precon. It’s upgraded now, but even out of the box we had a lot of trouble with it. I play in a very budget and generally low power group and I think our generally slow games and lack of planeswalker removal made that deck kind of the arch nemesis of our group.
That's funny because I feel like it's kind of weak. I haven't played it a ton, but Planeswalkers in general are always assessed to be a huge threat in my group and if I'm spending my mana on Planeswalkers I have very little protection for them. I do feel like in pods where people feel a little more bad about targeting someone, you could get out of control. it's one of those feast or famine decks
Yeah, any creatures at all should be pretty good at solving this issue. Sure, there are some pillowfort cards in there, but it's not like removal is that expensive monetarily, maybe your pod needs a tiny but more of that.
My threat assessment is a triangle. Its 1: Mana, if the player has more lands then everyone else (by like three or more) 2: card draw, if your holding a good chunk of your deck, youre the problem 3: permanents, there are clear cut cards you see that are just problematic, like seedborn muse, koma, ect. These are how i determine whos the threat.
@benjaminladd no, since other colors can do this as well. Black has cabal lands, and plenty of draw in it. Ntm permanents are clearly the biggest determining factor when it comes to threat level. But yea, if a simic deck has a ton of mana and cards in hand, I can guarantee you they are only a step or two away from getting the win.
@1:02:18 I had a game recently where the mill player was targeting me (Mishra, Eminent One with a lot of artifact reanimation and graveyard synergy) multiple times, despite my other two opponents pleading with him to stop. I had Goblin Welder on board! I could understand simply not expecting Mishra to run that much graveyard interaction or not knowing the deck at all, but Welder was right there... He didn't listen. Turn 4 Portal to Phyrexia hopefully helped him to understand his mistake! That was a whole other level of targeting something that can easily come right back: helping it to come out in the first place! People always target my stuff when I can bring it back really easily, too. They get laser-focused on *THE THREAT*, so they don't see everything that's enabling that threat.
We had a new player at commander league this week. My favorite moment of that game was getting to tell the new guy, "So he just played Urza. We have to remove it now or we lose." The Urza player had the option between taking an extra turn and saving his Urza. He choose Urza and still won 3 on 1.
Honestly, a t1 sol ring has it disadvantages. It puts you a card down in the opening turns, and potentially more if you have follow ups after that sol ring. But they do deserve a love tap for their actions.
@@beanieman8570 It doesn't put you down a card in the opening turns. It gives you another card in play. That's like saying playing a signet or an extra land puts you down a card.
The hardest thing with commander is sometimes it can be challenging to see the whole board due to how far someone is sitting away or the light from the room lights shining off cards.
1:18:14 Even if you are the threat at the table, threat assessment is still important because you need to be able to determine 'who' has the highest chance of stopping you from winning.
I think something to consider too is the other player’s reaction to things. If someone who is a threat had a clear destain for something someone else casts you can probably leave them alone and hold interaction because the chances are they’re going to focus on that player and vise versa if the reaction is towards you. That player can suddenly be more of a threat to you specifically since they will likely use their resources against you so that player might be the one you start to focus down on
Another great example of a competing strategies is agro flyer decks. You can't always attack the other deck with the evasion your deck is designed to have
Over-pressuring someone also runs the risk that your target may conclude their chance at victory is gone, so they may as well switch goals to leaning into the blood feud and taking away *your* chance to win. 2 FNMs ago, was playing my Arwen, Mortal Queen deck against a Meren deck that just kept cleaning my board with Edict death-triggers. When he reached the point of recurring and running 3 Edicts/Turn, I hit the board with an Exile Graveyards and Enchantments Farewell, then cast Eternal Witness to get the Farewell back. Lost half my life during the next turn cycle, Farewelled again, then rammed the E-Witness into a block on the Lathril pilot’s part, cast an Evolution Witness, Adapted the Evo Witness, got back my Eternal Witness, and tapped out to cast the Eternal Witness, grabbing Farewell. Forced Meren to spend his entire turn to do 8 damage and knock me out. Leading to Lathril Lose-10’ing at the end of Malcolm/Vial Smasher’s turn, then doing it again when they untapped to win. Meren got annoyed with me, and accused me of king-making, but I responded, “I was completely indifferent as to whether Malcolm/Vial or Lathril won, and at the time I cast the 2nd Farewell, either one could have. (Lathril didn’t have 10 Elves they could afford to tap at that point.) “I told you when you said you wanted to play Meren that if you went crazy with the Edict-recursion like last time, I wasn’t going to be gracious about it again. You TOLD ME you’d leaned away from the Edict engine when you rebuilt the deck.”
I'm glad you addressed life total as a red herring. I'm often at a higher life total because my budget mana base doesn't have shocks or fetches in it so I always get hit over the players who have fixed their mana and have spent life in other ways 😂😂😢
Whenever someone rolls dice to decide attacks and a card/effect didn’t require them to do so, it’s bad blood for the rest of the game on my end even if I didn’t get attacked. Read the board, make a decision based off strategy rather than RNG and own said decision instead of hiding behind a die roll.
On the benefiting from a strategy: I played a game where a mill player cast a kicked Maddening Cacophony "because he can" while we were in a game with a Lier extra turns deck even after I told him that was a bad idea. We did not get another turn once he passed.
Regarding not swinging into someone with open mana. I usually attack anyways even if they tell me "hey i have swords to plowshares, i will use it if you attack me". Because if i don't attack it is basically if they cast the spell on my creature without them using it. So i think (in most cases), making them actually have the card and spend it is better than believing the bluff. if they have swords t. P. great now they don't have it anymore, if not i dealt potetially a lot of damage to them. But i won't be held hostage by someone telling me that he has a spell and will use it.
I do what you described often. The thing that people don't seem to get is you're not a "hostage" it's not even a threat, it's a matter of protection. Whether the bluff works or not I will protect myself. In one instance you loose a creature, but if you choose not to attack that removal would most likely be pointed in another direction unless you are the clear threat in which case YOU are holding us hostage the whole game. Just cause I say I have removal as a deterrent doesn't make me a threat to you immediately.
When in doubt, if the assets on board and in hand are roughly equal after the first few turns, lean towards decks with stronger long-game plans or late game explosiveness.
Win cons matter a ton. When I play a tron deck I'm less likely to shift my threat assessment and instead pick one early and stick with it. Sometimes means I'm not addressing the current threat but narrowing the table matters a lot too.
I was playing my Halloween themed deck (mono black vampires, zombies, headless Rider, ghosts, and jack o lantern with some recursion and aristocrats) playing against a self mill deck who put 98% of his creatures into the graveyard. One Rise of the Dark Realms later and I had too much of a board state I needed more table. My board had like 2 creatures and an enchantment before that so I was not the threat but it was a big play and a great memory of playing
I will say, if I've been playing the game so well that I am indeed the threat, because I do tend to be a more aggressive player, I've learned to tell myself, "Yup, I'm the threat." But instead of trying to take a hit and lower my threat level, if I know I have the resources to close out the game, I've learned to step on the gas pedal more, keep pushing myself as the threat, and tell the other players, "I'm working to close out the game; if you don't answer me, I'm going to win." I feel it's something to learn, as well, and I feel it's definitely something that other players appreciate because you're being honest and forcing them to disrupt you hard enough if they want a chance to survive and keep going.
I watched the precon upgrade video for omo queen of vesuva and I loved it :) thank you command zone for giving me a general direction to go with upgrading because i was so lost. That being said, what are good land-based decks besides omo? I love those type of decks and I could always use more.
Our latest game ended up being a cold war where we couldn't take each other out. I could have destroyed two players who were threats in their own way with my Bess-led army but I needed them alive to deal with the other player who couldn't take damage but couldn't really deal it either. Long story short, we managed to take out the immune player with exiling cards and life swap and then we were taken out with Astarion shenanigans before I could deal 897 damage with Bess, Soul Nourisher, 35 pegasi and supporting members.
Yes, please. I love Commander but being such a popular and casual format means you get a lot of bad threat assessment. There is so much more than just looking at the current Battlefield as well. I hope you guys cover that. If a player doesn't have a lot on their Battlefield but they have still drawn a lot of tutored a lot, they're likely the biggest threat.
on When to use Removal, Something I'm still not sure about about is removing value engines. I had a game where one of my opponents played Sword of the Animist turn 2 or 3 and I removed it with a Wear//Tear imediatly, becsuse in my own deck, I know that's one of the best cards in my deck that early. Neither of us won that game, and idk if its becsuse I put both of us in a worse position, or if I never had a chance either way.
It is definitely a good idea to remove value engines before they get going (like Rhystic Study). However, I don't think Sword of the Animist ever deserves a removal spell. It only gets basic lands in play, which are good for mana but not much else. Also, a board wipe will usually hinder the card for one turn at least (unless they have creatures with haste). You can also let your opponent play a creature, equip Sword of the Animist for two mana to it, enter combat, and remove the creature at the beginning of combat before they can declare attackers. Now they cannot reequip (so no trigger this turn), they lost a creature and two mana. Wear//Tear has better targets even at lower power tables in my opinion
@florinalinmarginean1135 maybe we play in different circles, but in my own play experience, I've gotten up 4, 5, or 6 lands off of Sword of the Animist and those games I usually steamroll the table. But my comment was less about the specific card and more generally when to nip value engines. The video primarily talks about identifying problems and when to deal with them, but my thought is that long term value engines are silently threatening and should be dealt with too. However, it's harder to call because early in the game it may be too early to know who will be the biggest threat (say it's opponents you don't know with commanders you haven't seen play before), but if you wait until someone becomes the threat, it's too late and they've gotten their value. The real answer is, "it depends," with factors like, how much removal do you actually run, and do you run enough card velocity to find another? Can you race, i.e., do you have your own engine and is it as good or better than the other's? If you do answer it, who is left ahead?
The answer to that depends on the table. At my job I have a lunchtime playgroup that just sucks at playing interaction. If they do it at all, they generally do it too late. I started building less interactive decks just for that group because I'd ususally be the sucker who was behind on account of being the only one doing damage control. At my LGS the level of interaction I play is just normal. But stopping land ramp is generally a good idea. Especially if it is attempted by a deck that doesn't have natural access to the effect.
Im so guilty of being the player in any multiplayer game thats like "Man you should really worry about that guy" when im absolutely the person they should worry about. Its gross but it works!
Doing that to experienced players is one thing, but a lot of scuzzy veterans gaslight new players in the guise of “advising” them. I have never wanted to win a round so bad, I’d teach rookies poor threat assessment, and I’m fairly sure you find it rather repulsive, too. Last night I watched a grown man on a full-on cEDH Chulane list BS’ing an 11-year-old that he didn’t have game in hand, so the kid wouldn’t use a 2U 2C Enchantment in his unmodified Precon to snatch his Commander. It very often gets nasty, but I’m not shy about calling gaslighters out and laying out my reasons/evidence. Kid got mad when he realized he was being played, snatched the jerk’s Chulane (Who’d already been removed 4x) and sac’d it to Scry 1 then Draw 1. Knew he was giving my Mowu deck the game, and asked his older brother watching, “Isn’t there something this is called?” His bro’s like, “Yeah, kingmaking. You *generally* shouldn’t do that.” Kid: Good, ::makes the sign of the cross in my direction:: “You can start your reign of terror now.” Gave him his 3$ entry-fee back.
@Shawn-f3x oh absolutely agree! I play way differently with new vs experienced players. Teaching new players those ins and outs (and even discuss what i or other people might say in a situation) so they get the politics of the multi-player format
I usually go right at ppl with blockers instead of an open person (assuming its not a free block for them cuz they have higher toughness) because of that mindset of more permanents on board. I don't care if others are "open" you have deployed more rectangles so other things being equal I'll swing right at you. Same applies even if a trade is possible. That 2/2 "blocker" for my 2/2 attacker is probably more utility to them alive then dead unless I know they can recur easily, so they are actually open regardless of what it looks like.
Related to a few of the pre-game assessments that you mentioned: Note those players (if you know) that play cEDH. In my experience, some cEDH players tend to consider any deck that hasn't won them a tournament to be a "casual" deck, even when the power level is always way higher than they think it is. (A cEDH player's "7" or "8" is often way more powerful than what a casual player would clock them at. That doesn't mean they are intentionally deceiving you. Sometimes, they just kind of register their decks on a different scale.) Also, during pre-game when chatting about decks, note those players who mention "going infinite" or using combos that lead to instant wins (lots of players talk about their win strategies, pay attention).
The cEDH player isn't always the person to go after all the time. Usually, they are the person who is the most informed on the type of game your playing. Expect them to be the biggest threat if your playing high power or cEDH. If your playing casual and you inform them of the expectations of casual they usually aren't the biggest threat at the table because they are usually the best at matching other players decks as well as normally the person most likely to tell you what to expect out of their deck. I will usually if I don't know the players ask the type of game they want to play and the power levels they are bringing to the table. I bring multiple decks to the LGS and match others decks power. Casual is then explained as doing one thing a turn and being a game that is more based on chivalry and letting everyone do their decks thing before you go in for the kill if possible (outside of really mana screwed like Jimmy). High power is the catch all below cEDH and I explain what cEDH is the format where anything goes, nobody can get mad at anyone for any actions since it is all about winning. Then high power is where your looking at decks that have some built in limitations on tutoring and infinites.
@@matthewrose8002 yeah can confirm that isnt the case. Have one guy that works like you explained. Then i have a entire mob of people that show up. Act all cutesy while explaining how their deck isnt toxic. Then proceed to destroy the entire pod by turn 6 at the latest. My friend finally told me now i understand why you sit out games if certain people jump into your pod.
@ Then you need to have a conversation of the expectations of the game with them before you start the game. Those games sound like their expectations are the higher end of high end if not fringe cEDH. I've played against those types of players but then my LGS has 2 different nights for the different styles of play. The call the one night a precon style league where you can bring your decks that should be low enough powered to allow all to enjoy. Then a anything goes type of night where the objective is to win and they seperate pods based on high power and cEDH. The precon league stays healthy since if you don't get a vote from all players that you played a fair precon level deck you don't get the rewards of the pack for the night. That along makes people who just want a true casual style of game to really show up and it does pretty well.
i tend to do most of the things you talked about when I evaluate a threat, although sometimes i feel like i'm a bull seeing rage when i get focused "just because". I tend to play in a group where the others are sometimes playing the dice game often attacking at their disadvantage and I have recently realized why; one of the player is playing the blame game most of the time. I kindda get sick of this :). Also, sometimes I get focused but because of what my deck MIGHT do, not on what is on the table. Being focused because of what your deck might do is not fun when you are in turn 6 with only 3 lands and that's it, while the other 3 players have a fully grown board...I think I must change my group :))
Hey guys, lmao when you closed-up with kill jlk! 😂 how about you analyze your command zone crew game stats and either make a whole episode on it or just throw it into another episode. Josh, jimmey amd rachel should have enough fames to yield some interesting stats but also the others. Would love to see it 😊
I have happened to have a few games where I effectively board wiped twice early on, because I happened to be in a position that I would lose very little, but I thought my opponents over extended a bit too much. I have no idea if it was the right thing to do. Tge cards that have been the most fun for me were Zimone's Hypothesis and Split Up, where I happened to be in situations where in those turns, I could manipulate to lose almost nothing, but I could not be sure that I could do that on a later turn.
I have found that when I openly admit that I am the threat, when it gets to later in the game and I am no longer the threat, the same individuals who were after me now feel more apt to listen to what I have to say when it comes to determining the threatening things on the board
I remember playing my first deck in a 7 player game. I had a myr deck with a ton of 1/1 myrs and myr battlesphere. I also had 2 tainted strikes and 2 swamps in my deck. I just watched as one player got a 107million/107million vigilance creature with 107million health as he killed one player after another. He sent one of his side creatures my way and killed one of my myrs. So I laid down the swamp I was holding onto and cast tainted strike on my myr battlesphere and attacked tapping 10 myrs. I said gg. He said he blocks. Someone else said "nope you're already dead." My second deck was a deck with only UG cards not counting lands with slippery bogle, shorecrasher mimic, and Favor of the Overbeing. It was best 1v1
Threat assessment: Early phase: The player who turn 1 Sol Ring or any player that was able to have mana rocks or multiple lands on turn 2. Mid phase: Who has the most dangerous board. Politics. Late game: After one player is eliminated. Picking one to eliminate. Politics are off around this point or one has grown too powerful.
@ that’s what rule zero is about. It’s normal for everyone to show what commander they’re playing. If yall don’t make any input and expect it to go casual. That’s the biggest mistake. I ended up pulling out my Koma and it’s the most casual simic I have. It’s the card draws that made the table scoot on turn 4.
Usually I am pretty good at letting the table know who or what the threat is (even if it's me) but I feel threat assessment is not the most important thing when playing, rather I think having fun is the most important thing. Last week we had a player with Bolas Citadel and Aetherflux Reservoir. I decided to not counter them because I thought, hey the rest of the table will notice they're obviously dangerous cards. But no one did anything and I was not the only one playing blue and I got really upset about it. It was my fault but I learned that it is ok to let someone pop off every once in q while. Next game the whole table just obliterated that player 😅
I've learned to take my friends' targeting of me based on my skill at the game.... but it DOES hurt my feelings when they tell new players I've never sat across from that I'm a threat, even before I've done anything in a game. We don't know they're not a bigger threat than me. just because I'm good doesn't mean I'll always do well, and I'd love a chance to play magic too. Sometimes it can feel unfair, because I'm not THAT good. I'm not a pro player or even a competitive player. even If I play less powerful decks I find I'm targeted by this phenomenon, but geez... I'd like to play my fun decks and have them get a chance to develop without it always feeling like a 3 on 1 fight/uphill battle.
Yeah all they are doing is hurting the play group in the long run. You now have to build a more powerful deck to overcome what they throw at you. They then try harder to counter your new powerful deck. The cycle continues. Honestly just get a decent precon deck. Figure out how to run it really well. If they still complain after you bust that out. They are the issue and just are upset they cant figure out how to do better.
universe beyond assassins creed has a destroy all artifacts and creatures with a second mode that revives a legendary and put a +1/1 counter on it back to the battlefield from the graveyard awesome card
In threat assessment never feel bad attacking the combo deck. Someone who plays combo should be expecting to get focused down, yes they can still politic and give sad puppy eyes to deter getting hit, but they shouldn't throw a temper tantrum. Combo decks go from nothing to win within a turn.
While I understand that in theory it's always better to chip down the same person instead of spreading the damage, in my case, my playgroup has a tendency to go for "the bully". So if someone is just hounding down a person, which makes the other player attack that person or use some removal on them. So it's not always about "not wanting to single out", it also is a bit reliant on the culture of your group. For board wipes, I think the one thing that isn't really touched upon and can actually justify doing a board wipe only and pass (without rebuilding your board as well as board wiping as suggested), is because of hidden information: you're the only one holding information about your incoming board wipe. So while you're maybe just playing some ETB creatures, someone else could be pumping out key pieces. I think most people at this point don't try to over-commit their board, so maybe someone will have something coming out, but I feel like chances are if you're the one holding things you don't want blown up, you're probably in a better position if you notice people aren't holding too many cards when you play it.
Issues with threat assessment in my CEDH pod has been misleading diplomacy. I would add "Trust your gut." I have been mislead 2 times because everyone's threat assessment was off. I trust it more than diplomacy at a table.
I play vintage old magic cards in my commander decks because I like them but players won’t let me play longer because - one, how I got those cards (expensive cards) and two broken combos
I’m halfway through so apologies if this comes up later… but how do you actually deal with a control player? Let’s say they are the threat… but they can respond to anything and if you make an enemy of them then you won’t get to play the game (whether it’s because they tunnel you out of spite or their whole deck is just interaction). I play a lot of creature decks so I always look like the threat, while a control player has nothing but is untouchable… until they just win out of nowhere
They cant answer everything. Especially if its 3v1. Sometimes its as simple as pointing out that they'll win by default if they're not sufficiently pressured.
Does the control Player have thrice as much mana *and* cards available? If not, then they surely cannot answer *everything.* They might answer the most important pieces, but if no Player is willing to go against the archenemy, the archenemy will simply just win. That's how magic goes.
Control is weak in commander inherently because you need triple the resources to deal with everything. The answer is to NOT play your big things immediately when you can and let someone else take their attention. And play your cards after the control player uses some removal. They cannot answer everything.
A rule of thumb I like when considering removal (whether it be targeted removal or deciding to trade creatures) is rarity. While somewhat arbitrary, and fluctuating, I think it’s a good baseline metric. Using an uncommon removal spell on a rare creature, or trading an uncommon creature a rare one, is generally a good idea As far as board wipes, this is more deck building then gameplay strategy, but I play one sided board wipes. Artifact deck? Destroy non artifacts. Token deck? Destroy all non tokens. Etc
Looking for advice… I just got into magic! I have two decks and know the basics and how to play for the most part. I only have a few friends that are into magic and it’s hard to link up to play with them often. How can I find people to play with? Do local game stores typically have non tournament game nights? If so are they beginner friendly? P.S. I’m aware of Arena, but I’m most interested in commander.
Game stores are a great place to meet new people and often have a commander night! Give your LGS a call and see what their Magic schedule looks like. Bring a Magic friend to the store with you if it makes you more comfortable meeting new folks.
I swear, an episode like this is going to get people to up their "I'm just a widdle bean uwu" act tenfold before a game and to avoid using usual magic jargon.
Bad threat assessment is very frustrating. I played a low-power game on spelltable during the pandemic where 3/4 decks were actually low power and the last player had Esika, god of yhe tree (aka prismatic bridge). One of the other players countered my 3-drop commander (mirri, weatherlight duelist) with no other creatures on my board. I asked them why they didn't save for esika and they said they wanted to use their mana. We lost to esika two or three turns later after they cheated out a few 7+ drops Another game in LGS i was the clear on-board threat with mirri and a decent number of creatures, but was focused on taking tasigur player out. My opponents allowed them to get back cyclonic rift multiple turns in a row which didnt make any sense to me - yes, it solves the issue of my board but im not going to be attacking them until tasigur is out of the game and they cant beat cyc rift every turn either
I make decks that show minimum board presence so nobody thinks im the threat, but then im storm off out of nowhere and just win with no one seeing it coming
While great to do a video on, but i think people struggle to identify individual cards as threats, sure they see blight steel as a threat, but they don't see the mana cost reducers someone has as a threat. or they think Nelly Borca is a threat because its goading their creatures, but someone else has a sun titan and can recur stuff every turn
I've seen soooo many players say, "You're open. I guess I'll attack you." Usually, players who are wide open at the start of a game aren't a big threat. Players also forget that their creatures are removal. If everyone attacks a player, that player will have to block eventually.
Strong disagree. The person that is open early game is likely using their turns ramping, and you absolutely should inflict some pain before it is too late. A late-game ramped player has to still play conservative if they are below 20 life, but if you let them get away with the pity card too long, they will take over the game. In the smaller chance the player has no blockers, just missed a land drop, and is behind, then I would agree with your statement.
@@snowmanO07 I'll ammend what I said: Don't attack a player just because they are open. Maybe its just the pods I'm playing in these days, but decks that are ramping without building out any other sort of boardstate on turn 3 or 4 tend to lose. Maybe they get 1 or 2 spells off, but more often then not, those get countered or removed. Card advantage and tempo are way more important in my opinion. That said, I'm playing in a league for points which could be driving deck building in a specific dirrection.
If you are not planning to block with that creature why not attack? Maybe they are the only good attack. But I agree, just being open shouldn't be the only reason.
@@JavierOrtizBultron Imagine a senario with only one player behind(4 player pod). Attacking the player who is behind doesn't do anything proactive against the 2 players more likely to take you out and futher hinders a player you could be allying with. Sometimes the only good attack is just the best of 3 bad or subpar attacks.
@@mrboberson7424 unless you need the creature to block most likely the player that's behind won't be able to help you anyway. The game needs to end, and most time if that player is really behind he is ready to scoop and/or be killed to go to the next game. We used to do a lots of pity plays leaving that player alone but it extends the games way too long and most times doesn't change the outcome for that player. It is hard to have a rule as everything has so many dependencies.
It’s me. For some reason everyone always thinks I’m the threat. Even if I tell them that I built this deck to be less competitive, they don’t believe me.
"Look at how they shuffle their decks." I play commander for like 10 years and I still shuffle like a beginner, because I have little baby hands. No information to gain here😂
Want to get the table politicking to help you assess? Tap your mana, place your removal spell on the stack and say "I'm going to cast ______, and I ***think*** I'm going to target _______, but I'm not 100% sure"
That's not how it works. You can, however, show that you have the spell before casting it. Otherwise, the Moment you cast it, if it is a targeted spell, you already have to announce targets.
@@lVideoWatcherl casting of a spell is covered by 601.2 (a through i) - 601.2a you put the spell onto the stack, 601.2b you announce modes and extra/alternate costs, 601.2c you announce targets. Just do a and b, then discuss c with the table.
@ The point is that in order to actually cast it, you have to announce the target. How this is relevant is that exactly what you say you can do, you actually cannot do - you can discuss what should be targeted by revealing the spell beforehand, or you could be vague and insinuate you can remove something, but you cannot actually cast a spell without also announcing the target. The distinction is barely relevant, however.
@@lVideoWatcherl Right, you have to announce targets as one of the steps of casting a spell that has targets. I am saying that, while peforming the steps of casting the spell, talk to your opponents during the announcing-targets step (if you want help with threat assessment and don't like revealing cards before playing them). You can do exactly that.
How do you determine if someone is the threat or not?
Always unless they don't draw any more lands for 3+ turns.
as a Naya mage with entirely combat focused decks, I prioritize opponents in roughly this order: if they're taking self damage by cracking fetch lands and shocking shock lands, I'll attack them. If they're passively drawing extra cards, I'll attack them. If they've refrained from playing chump blockers, I'll attack them. If they just happen to be Blue, I'll attack them. This works most of the time.
I think this was pretty spot on. Personally for me I base games off who is the better player first. As I’ve found that has led to winning more games. But at this point I know I’m a season player and everything else is just kinda on default for me. I know the combos, I know the cards, so the only thing that freaks me out as a player is a player who understands the stack// interaction better than I. A lot of players will just give away like idk obvious miss plays ( I.e playing an instant on your main phase). So that to me just tells me they don’t really know the lines, and puts me mentally at ease. Ye but definitely think these are the correct steps in threat assesment.
I'm an Esper guy. I play Oloro, Merieke Ri Berit and 2 partner deck, Tymna+Silas and Tymna/Sakashima.
I focus a lot on control and interaction. My PG recently told me that I was probably the best if not 2nd best player in our group. And that's why I get the Archenemy title all the time. They told me it's nothing personal, I'm just scary. So, perhaps being too good at threat assessment makes you the problem? Or maybe it helps other get better at the game? 😂
It's all in the eyes. You can always tell whose the threat before you even draw the first 7 cards lol
The content of this channel is so fun and high quality it simultaneously teaches valuable life skills alongside teaching you how to play the game.
That's a super high compliment, thank you!
I think something they didn’t touch on but alluded to is quite important: understanding your position in the game. If you’re playing an aggro deck, go harder at the green ramp player because they will dominate in the late game. If you’re the threat, embrace it and start moving to take players out of the game instead of trying to spread the love. If your commander can kill with commander damage, prioritize hitting the life gain player with it. Etc etc. Threat assessment is dynamic and because someone is “the threat” doesn’t always mean they are the threat TO YOU. You can greatly increase your win percentage by understanding your deck’s strong and weak points which they did mention, but I think some more concrete examples helps.
As someone who plays neither voltron nor lifegain decks, wouldn't it make more sense to leave the lifegain player for last, as you can nullify their deck with your commander damage, whereas they seem like a big obstacle/threat to the other 2 players?
@ yeah I wasn’t talking specifically about Voltron, but if your commander is like a 5/5 and/or has evasion or something. Like a niv mizzet
Im am simple man, the threat is who ever effected my board state negatively most recently . Aka , am petty =)
@@bejita7831I feel like if you leave the lifegain deck for too long, they’ll build enough of a board state that you can’t beat them later on. Or they use a combo that uses life to kill you when it’s too late.
@@bejita7831 If you have a commander that can kill through Commander Damage, you are the biggest threat to the lifegain player so they will be targeting you. In this case, they are a large threat to you, because you are by far the biggest threat to them.
As someone that has been constantly struggling with understanding threat assessment with the monthly games I play with friends, this is great to have to understand what I can do to make my performance better
'You have the most life' - Yes, because that player over there just fetched up and shocked in a land securing their manabase....
The greatest threat is playing a tapped, untyped land that gains you 1 life. As opposed to someone fetching and shocking in for a turn 1 drop like esper, sol ring or fish
On the other hand, the guy with Phyrexian Arena and 4 life less than everyone: 😈
A really good video.
When I play with players of a certain experience, I prefer to help them learn by dropping phrases like:
"And nooow, you can officially start an alliance against me."
"And nooow, I am one Overrun-effect away from closing the game"
"And nooow, my game economy is very close to God-mode"
Why am I doing this? Cause I am sick of newbies not learning threat assessment because they get constantly gaslighted and firehouses by experienced players.
Sheldon himself always said, quit rolling dice. Every moment has an optimal decision, quit leaving it to chance just because you want to be nice
What if I don't want to be nice but I enjoy the chaos?
What if it’s a way to avoid making enemies and is the optimal way to advance the game without making yourself the target
@@mightyhulk1483 If someone hates that practice, you could potentially make an enemy even if you don’t attack them gf the die roll. I speak as someone that hates that crap and I will target players that do so both because I hate it and it means they’re more unpredictable so they gotta go asap.
"I'd rather waste mana than a card" is a very impactful statement. Either inexperienced players or players with a lot of experience in 1v1 formats come in with the exact opposite thinking, taking any chance to take action. But resource economy, life, mana and cards, also information and action economy change substantially with more than one opponent. It's harder for any 1-for-1 interaction to have meaningful impact, or for chips of damage to feel relevant against an initial 120 total, so identifying the right spots to tip the scales becomes more profitable than shooting everything on sight, although when overdone, you might not get another chance. My key question for most decisions is "what's the worst case scenario, and can I handle that?"
Man, I love commander, the 4x multiplayer dynamics are so fun.
There is no threat Skylar, I am the threat!
hope you all are doing ok out there in southern Cali... 🙏
Thanks for your concern! Been a harrowing few weeks, but things are settling down.
@@commandcast went thru Helene on this end, so i understand the "harrowing". i'll be tapping 1 white & 2 for a Teferi's protection for y'all. 🪄
In my playgroup, one of the biggest threats at our table is the planeswalker party precon. It’s upgraded now, but even out of the box we had a lot of trouble with it. I play in a very budget and generally low power group and I think our generally slow games and lack of planeswalker removal made that deck kind of the arch nemesis of our group.
That's funny because I feel like it's kind of weak. I haven't played it a ton, but Planeswalkers in general are always assessed to be a huge threat in my group and if I'm spending my mana on Planeswalkers I have very little protection for them. I do feel like in pods where people feel a little more bad about targeting someone, you could get out of control. it's one of those feast or famine decks
Have you tried punching the Planeswalkers to death? You have free removal, it's called "creatures".
Yeah, any creatures at all should be pretty good at solving this issue. Sure, there are some pillowfort cards in there, but it's not like removal is that expensive monetarily, maybe your pod needs a tiny but more of that.
My friends: "you're the threat"
Me as Mark Wahlberg: "What? Nooooo"
My friends: "you're the threat!"
Me in the voice of the count from sesame street: "1! 1 threat! Ah ah ah"
My threat assessment is a triangle. Its
1: Mana, if the player has more lands then everyone else (by like three or more)
2: card draw, if your holding a good chunk of your deck, youre the problem
3: permanents, there are clear cut cards you see that are just problematic, like seedborn muse, koma, ect.
These are how i determine whos the threat.
So Simic? Anyone playing Simic colors is the threat to you😂
@benjaminladd no, since other colors can do this as well. Black has cabal lands, and plenty of draw in it. Ntm permanents are clearly the biggest determining factor when it comes to threat level. But yea, if a simic deck has a ton of mana and cards in hand, I can guarantee you they are only a step or two away from getting the win.
@Berdersner you're response if confusing.. no, but yea
As always, love the energy you all put into these episodes and this is a topic that is constantly undervalued and misunderstood
@1:02:18 I had a game recently where the mill player was targeting me (Mishra, Eminent One with a lot of artifact reanimation and graveyard synergy) multiple times, despite my other two opponents pleading with him to stop. I had Goblin Welder on board! I could understand simply not expecting Mishra to run that much graveyard interaction or not knowing the deck at all, but Welder was right there...
He didn't listen. Turn 4 Portal to Phyrexia hopefully helped him to understand his mistake! That was a whole other level of targeting something that can easily come right back: helping it to come out in the first place!
People always target my stuff when I can bring it back really easily, too. They get laser-focused on *THE THREAT*, so they don't see everything that's enabling that threat.
We had a new player at commander league this week. My favorite moment of that game was getting to tell the new guy, "So he just played Urza. We have to remove it now or we lose." The Urza player had the option between taking an extra turn and saving his Urza. He choose Urza and still won 3 on 1.
Let me guess, the person who has a turn 1 sol ring is the threat
Wrong, it’s the person playing “not THAT Voja deck”. 😂🤦🏻♂️
Its always the Simic player😂
The threat is always the person who takes the longest 😂
Honestly, a t1 sol ring has it disadvantages. It puts you a card down in the opening turns, and potentially more if you have follow ups after that sol ring. But they do deserve a love tap for their actions.
@@beanieman8570 It doesn't put you down a card in the opening turns. It gives you another card in play. That's like saying playing a signet or an extra land puts you down a card.
The threat is that friend who win 75 % of the games , always kill him first lol
The hardest thing with commander is sometimes it can be challenging to see the whole board due to how far someone is sitting away or the light from the room lights shining off cards.
This episode had so many great tips. Thanks guys!
Thank you for this video. I feel a litle bit better in Commander Matches
I'm one of those players who, when asked "What's the biggest threat on the board?", will point at my own stuff.
1:18:14 Even if you are the threat at the table, threat assessment is still important because you need to be able to determine 'who' has the highest chance of stopping you from winning.
I think something to consider too is the other player’s reaction to things. If someone who is a threat had a clear destain for something someone else casts you can probably leave them alone and hold interaction because the chances are they’re going to focus on that player and vise versa if the reaction is towards you. That player can suddenly be more of a threat to you specifically since they will likely use their resources against you so that player might be the one you start to focus down on
Another great example of a competing strategies is agro flyer decks. You can't always attack the other deck with the evasion your deck is designed to have
Over-pressuring someone also runs the risk that your target may conclude their chance at victory is gone, so they may as well switch goals to leaning into the blood feud and taking away *your* chance to win.
2 FNMs ago, was playing my Arwen, Mortal Queen deck against a Meren deck that just kept cleaning my board with Edict death-triggers.
When he reached the point of recurring and running 3 Edicts/Turn, I hit the board with an Exile Graveyards and Enchantments Farewell, then cast Eternal Witness to get the Farewell back.
Lost half my life during the next turn cycle, Farewelled again, then rammed the E-Witness into a block on the Lathril pilot’s part, cast an Evolution Witness, Adapted the Evo Witness, got back my Eternal Witness, and tapped out to cast the Eternal Witness, grabbing Farewell.
Forced Meren to spend his entire turn to do 8 damage and knock me out. Leading to Lathril Lose-10’ing at the end of Malcolm/Vial Smasher’s turn, then doing it again when they untapped to win.
Meren got annoyed with me, and accused me of king-making, but I responded, “I was completely indifferent as to whether Malcolm/Vial or Lathril won, and at the time I cast the 2nd Farewell, either one could have. (Lathril didn’t have 10 Elves they could afford to tap at that point.)
“I told you when you said you wanted to play Meren that if you went crazy with the Edict-recursion like last time, I wasn’t going to be gracious about it again. You TOLD ME you’d leaned away from the Edict engine when you rebuilt the deck.”
Rachel is such an upgrade now she is more involved in command zone. S+ tier
I'm glad you addressed life total as a red herring. I'm often at a higher life total because my budget mana base doesn't have shocks or fetches in it so I always get hit over the players who have fixed their mana and have spent life in other ways 😂😂😢
When I built my orzhov lifegain deck I put in felidar sovereign just on case I came across another life gain player and needed another way to win
Whenever someone rolls dice to decide attacks and a card/effect didn’t require them to do so, it’s bad blood for the rest of the game on my end even if I didn’t get attacked. Read the board, make a decision based off strategy rather than RNG and own said decision instead of hiding behind a die roll.
On the benefiting from a strategy: I played a game where a mill player cast a kicked Maddening Cacophony "because he can" while we were in a game with a Lier extra turns deck even after I told him that was a bad idea. We did not get another turn once he passed.
Regarding not swinging into someone with open mana. I usually attack anyways even if they tell me "hey i have swords to plowshares, i will use it if you attack me". Because if i don't attack it is basically if they cast the spell on my creature without them using it. So i think (in most cases), making them actually have the card and spend it is better than believing the bluff. if they have swords t. P. great now they don't have it anymore, if not i dealt potetially a lot of damage to them. But i won't be held hostage by someone telling me that he has a spell and will use it.
I do what you described often. The thing that people don't seem to get is you're not a "hostage" it's not even a threat, it's a matter of protection. Whether the bluff works or not I will protect myself. In one instance you loose a creature, but if you choose not to attack that removal would most likely be pointed in another direction unless you are the clear threat in which case YOU are holding us hostage the whole game. Just cause I say I have removal as a deterrent doesn't make me a threat to you immediately.
Yes, if it’s still advantageous to your game to attack them, call the bluff, and force them to use what they say they have.
When in doubt, if the assets on board and in hand are roughly equal after the first few turns, lean towards decks with stronger long-game plans or late game explosiveness.
Win cons matter a ton. When I play a tron deck I'm less likely to shift my threat assessment and instead pick one early and stick with it. Sometimes means I'm not addressing the current threat but narrowing the table matters a lot too.
When I was teaching a friend to play one of my rules was never pass up free damage....it could make the difference between a win or a loss
I was playing my Halloween themed deck (mono black vampires, zombies, headless Rider, ghosts, and jack o lantern with some recursion and aristocrats) playing against a self mill deck who put 98% of his creatures into the graveyard. One Rise of the Dark Realms later and I had too much of a board state I needed more table. My board had like 2 creatures and an enchantment before that so I was not the threat but it was a big play and a great memory of playing
I will say, if I've been playing the game so well that I am indeed the threat, because I do tend to be a more aggressive player, I've learned to tell myself, "Yup, I'm the threat." But instead of trying to take a hit and lower my threat level, if I know I have the resources to close out the game, I've learned to step on the gas pedal more, keep pushing myself as the threat, and tell the other players, "I'm working to close out the game; if you don't answer me, I'm going to win." I feel it's something to learn, as well, and I feel it's definitely something that other players appreciate because you're being honest and forcing them to disrupt you hard enough if they want a chance to survive and keep going.
Before watching: This episode was Rachel's idea I'm sure
Starts @5:13
Watch out sitting just after a blue player, you gotta cast your second scariest spell if they have untapped mana.
6:00 Jimmy 😂
I watched the precon upgrade video for omo queen of vesuva and I loved it :) thank you command zone for giving me a general direction to go with upgrading because i was so lost. That being said, what are good land-based decks besides omo? I love those type of decks and I could always use more.
Our latest game ended up being a cold war where we couldn't take each other out. I could have destroyed two players who were threats in their own way with my Bess-led army but I needed them alive to deal with the other player who couldn't take damage but couldn't really deal it either. Long story short, we managed to take out the immune player with exiling cards and life swap and then we were taken out with Astarion shenanigans before I could deal 897 damage with Bess, Soul Nourisher, 35 pegasi and supporting members.
Yes, please. I love Commander but being such a popular and casual format means you get a lot of bad threat assessment. There is so much more than just looking at the current Battlefield as well. I hope you guys cover that. If a player doesn't have a lot on their Battlefield but they have still drawn a lot of tutored a lot, they're likely the biggest threat.
Good video, perfect thumbnail
Glad you think so!
on When to use Removal, Something I'm still not sure about about is removing value engines. I had a game where one of my opponents played Sword of the Animist turn 2 or 3 and I removed it with a Wear//Tear imediatly, becsuse in my own deck, I know that's one of the best cards in my deck that early. Neither of us won that game, and idk if its becsuse I put both of us in a worse position, or if I never had a chance either way.
It is definitely a good idea to remove value engines before they get going (like Rhystic Study). However, I don't think Sword of the Animist ever deserves a removal spell.
It only gets basic lands in play, which are good for mana but not much else. Also, a board wipe will usually hinder the card for one turn at least (unless they have creatures with haste). You can also let your opponent play a creature, equip Sword of the Animist for two mana to it, enter combat, and remove the creature at the beginning of combat before they can declare attackers. Now they cannot reequip (so no trigger this turn), they lost a creature and two mana.
Wear//Tear has better targets even at lower power tables in my opinion
@florinalinmarginean1135 maybe we play in different circles, but in my own play experience, I've gotten up 4, 5, or 6 lands off of Sword of the Animist and those games I usually steamroll the table.
But my comment was less about the specific card and more generally when to nip value engines. The video primarily talks about identifying problems and when to deal with them, but my thought is that long term value engines are silently threatening and should be dealt with too. However, it's harder to call because early in the game it may be too early to know who will be the biggest threat (say it's opponents you don't know with commanders you haven't seen play before), but if you wait until someone becomes the threat, it's too late and they've gotten their value.
The real answer is, "it depends," with factors like, how much removal do you actually run, and do you run enough card velocity to find another? Can you race, i.e., do you have your own engine and is it as good or better than the other's? If you do answer it, who is left ahead?
The answer to that depends on the table. At my job I have a lunchtime playgroup that just sucks at playing interaction. If they do it at all, they generally do it too late. I started building less interactive decks just for that group because I'd ususally be the sucker who was behind on account of being the only one doing damage control. At my LGS the level of interaction I play is just normal.
But stopping land ramp is generally a good idea. Especially if it is attempted by a deck that doesn't have natural access to the effect.
Im so guilty of being the player in any multiplayer game thats like "Man you should really worry about that guy" when im absolutely the person they should worry about. Its gross but it works!
Doing that to experienced players is one thing, but a lot of scuzzy veterans gaslight new players in the guise of “advising” them.
I have never wanted to win a round so bad, I’d teach rookies poor threat assessment, and I’m fairly sure you find it rather repulsive, too.
Last night I watched a grown man on a full-on cEDH Chulane list BS’ing an 11-year-old that he didn’t have game in hand, so the kid wouldn’t use a 2U 2C Enchantment in his unmodified Precon to snatch his Commander.
It very often gets nasty, but I’m not shy about calling gaslighters out and laying out my reasons/evidence.
Kid got mad when he realized he was being played, snatched the jerk’s Chulane (Who’d already been removed 4x) and sac’d it to Scry 1 then Draw 1.
Knew he was giving my Mowu deck the game, and asked his older brother watching, “Isn’t there something this is called?”
His bro’s like, “Yeah, kingmaking. You *generally* shouldn’t do that.”
Kid: Good, ::makes the sign of the cross in my direction:: “You can start your reign of terror now.”
Gave him his 3$ entry-fee back.
@Shawn-f3x oh absolutely agree! I play way differently with new vs experienced players. Teaching new players those ins and outs (and even discuss what i or other people might say in a situation) so they get the politics of the multi-player format
I usually go right at ppl with blockers instead of an open person (assuming its not a free block for them cuz they have higher toughness) because of that mindset of more permanents on board. I don't care if others are "open" you have deployed more rectangles so other things being equal I'll swing right at you. Same applies even if a trade is possible. That 2/2 "blocker" for my 2/2 attacker is probably more utility to them alive then dead unless I know they can recur easily, so they are actually open regardless of what it looks like.
Related to a few of the pre-game assessments that you mentioned: Note those players (if you know) that play cEDH. In my experience, some cEDH players tend to consider any deck that hasn't won them a tournament to be a "casual" deck, even when the power level is always way higher than they think it is. (A cEDH player's "7" or "8" is often way more powerful than what a casual player would clock them at. That doesn't mean they are intentionally deceiving you. Sometimes, they just kind of register their decks on a different scale.)
Also, during pre-game when chatting about decks, note those players who mention "going infinite" or using combos that lead to instant wins (lots of players talk about their win strategies, pay attention).
The cEDH player isn't always the person to go after all the time. Usually, they are the person who is the most informed on the type of game your playing. Expect them to be the biggest threat if your playing high power or cEDH. If your playing casual and you inform them of the expectations of casual they usually aren't the biggest threat at the table because they are usually the best at matching other players decks as well as normally the person most likely to tell you what to expect out of their deck. I will usually if I don't know the players ask the type of game they want to play and the power levels they are bringing to the table. I bring multiple decks to the LGS and match others decks power. Casual is then explained as doing one thing a turn and being a game that is more based on chivalry and letting everyone do their decks thing before you go in for the kill if possible (outside of really mana screwed like Jimmy). High power is the catch all below cEDH and I explain what cEDH is the format where anything goes, nobody can get mad at anyone for any actions since it is all about winning. Then high power is where your looking at decks that have some built in limitations on tutoring and infinites.
@@matthewrose8002 yeah can confirm that isnt the case. Have one guy that works like you explained. Then i have a entire mob of people that show up. Act all cutesy while explaining how their deck isnt toxic. Then proceed to destroy the entire pod by turn 6 at the latest. My friend finally told me now i understand why you sit out games if certain people jump into your pod.
@ Then you need to have a conversation of the expectations of the game with them before you start the game. Those games sound like their expectations are the higher end of high end if not fringe cEDH. I've played against those types of players but then my LGS has 2 different nights for the different styles of play. The call the one night a precon style league where you can bring your decks that should be low enough powered to allow all to enjoy. Then a anything goes type of night where the objective is to win and they seperate pods based on high power and cEDH. The precon league stays healthy since if you don't get a vote from all players that you played a fair precon level deck you don't get the rewards of the pack for the night. That along makes people who just want a true casual style of game to really show up and it does pretty well.
Swords your opponents blocker so the blightsteel player knows where to go 😅
i tend to do most of the things you talked about when I evaluate a threat, although sometimes i feel like i'm a bull seeing rage when i get focused "just because". I tend to play in a group where the others are sometimes playing the dice game often attacking at their disadvantage and I have recently realized why; one of the player is playing the blame game most of the time. I kindda get sick of this :). Also, sometimes I get focused but because of what my deck MIGHT do, not on what is on the table. Being focused because of what your deck might do is not fun when you are in turn 6 with only 3 lands and that's it, while the other 3 players have a fully grown board...I think I must change my group :))
Hey guys, lmao when you closed-up with kill jlk! 😂 how about you analyze your command zone crew game stats and either make a whole episode on it or just throw it into another episode. Josh, jimmey amd rachel should have enough fames to yield some interesting stats but also the others. Would love to see it 😊
Hoping that this is a sign that you are all safe and sound 🤗
I have happened to have a few games where I effectively board wiped twice early on, because I happened to be in a position that I would lose very little, but I thought my opponents over extended a bit too much. I have no idea if it was the right thing to do.
Tge cards that have been the most fun for me were Zimone's Hypothesis and Split Up, where I happened to be in situations where in those turns, I could manipulate to lose almost nothing, but I could not be sure that I could do that on a later turn.
So whats up with glacial chasm not being a snow land?
@wachelreeks please tell me there is somewhere I can listen to the commander sphere “who to kill first” episode.
I have found that when I openly admit that I am the threat, when it gets to later in the game and I am no longer the threat, the same individuals who were after me now feel more apt to listen to what I have to say when it comes to determining the threatening things on the board
I remember playing my first deck in a 7 player game. I had a myr deck with a ton of 1/1 myrs and myr battlesphere. I also had 2 tainted strikes and 2 swamps in my deck. I just watched as one player got a 107million/107million vigilance creature with 107million health as he killed one player after another. He sent one of his side creatures my way and killed one of my myrs. So I laid down the swamp I was holding onto and cast tainted strike on my myr battlesphere and attacked tapping 10 myrs. I said gg. He said he blocks. Someone else said "nope you're already dead."
My second deck was a deck with only UG cards not counting lands with slippery bogle, shorecrasher mimic, and Favor of the Overbeing. It was best 1v1
Threat assessment:
Early phase:
The player who turn 1 Sol Ring or any player that was able to have mana rocks or multiple lands on turn 2.
Mid phase:
Who has the most dangerous board. Politics.
Late game:
After one player is eliminated. Picking one to eliminate. Politics are off around this point or one has grown too powerful.
You forgot "who's playing the busted commander" before the game even starts
@ that’s what rule zero is about. It’s normal for everyone to show what commander they’re playing. If yall don’t make any input and expect it to go casual. That’s the biggest mistake.
I ended up pulling out my Koma and it’s the most casual simic I have. It’s the card draws that made the table scoot on turn 4.
Usually I am pretty good at letting the table know who or what the threat is (even if it's me) but I feel threat assessment is not the most important thing when playing, rather I think having fun is the most important thing. Last week we had a player with Bolas Citadel and Aetherflux Reservoir. I decided to not counter them because I thought, hey the rest of the table will notice they're obviously dangerous cards. But no one did anything and I was not the only one playing blue and I got really upset about it. It was my fault but I learned that it is ok to let someone pop off every once in q while. Next game the whole table just obliterated that player 😅
Having practiced body language recognition can help. Psychology or sociology pursuits may also boost this.
Whoever plays horobi turn three in an ability focused deck is the threat.
in our playgroup its simple. Tom is the threat. if Tom is not there I suddenly become the threat. We often feel very targeted, but still have fun
the professor should be on this episode
I've learned to take my friends' targeting of me based on my skill at the game.... but it DOES hurt my feelings when they tell new players I've never sat across from that I'm a threat, even before I've done anything in a game. We don't know they're not a bigger threat than me. just because I'm good doesn't mean I'll always do well, and I'd love a chance to play magic too. Sometimes it can feel unfair, because I'm not THAT good. I'm not a pro player or even a competitive player. even If I play less powerful decks I find I'm targeted by this phenomenon, but geez... I'd like to play my fun decks and have them get a chance to develop without it always feeling like a 3 on 1 fight/uphill battle.
Lol. This is how spikes are born
Yeah all they are doing is hurting the play group in the long run. You now have to build a more powerful deck to overcome what they throw at you. They then try harder to counter your new powerful deck. The cycle continues. Honestly just get a decent precon deck. Figure out how to run it really well. If they still complain after you bust that out. They are the issue and just are upset they cant figure out how to do better.
So you're sitting at a table with three other players and one is playing koma, the other is playing voja and one is playing myriim. Yeah good luck.
49:26 almost sounds like you’re describing a fighting game here lol
What do you mean threat assessment? Everyone in the table is a threat to me and my Tiamat deck!
I’m always ok with a match becoming a mana measuring contest
universe beyond assassins creed has a destroy all artifacts and creatures with a second mode that revives a legendary and put a +1/1 counter on it back to the battlefield from the graveyard awesome card
In threat assessment never feel bad attacking the combo deck. Someone who plays combo should be expecting to get focused down, yes they can still politic and give sad puppy eyes to deter getting hit, but they shouldn't throw a temper tantrum. Combo decks go from nothing to win within a turn.
Every time when I see Rachel, I do a threat assessment and I know I'm in trouble.
While I understand that in theory it's always better to chip down the same person instead of spreading the damage, in my case, my playgroup has a tendency to go for "the bully". So if someone is just hounding down a person, which makes the other player attack that person or use some removal on them. So it's not always about "not wanting to single out", it also is a bit reliant on the culture of your group.
For board wipes, I think the one thing that isn't really touched upon and can actually justify doing a board wipe only and pass (without rebuilding your board as well as board wiping as suggested), is because of hidden information: you're the only one holding information about your incoming board wipe. So while you're maybe just playing some ETB creatures, someone else could be pumping out key pieces. I think most people at this point don't try to over-commit their board, so maybe someone will have something coming out, but I feel like chances are if you're the one holding things you don't want blown up, you're probably in a better position if you notice people aren't holding too many cards when you play it.
Issues with threat assessment in my CEDH pod has been misleading diplomacy. I would add "Trust your gut." I have been mislead 2 times because everyone's threat assessment was off. I trust it more than diplomacy at a table.
I play vintage old magic cards in my commander decks because I like them but players won’t let me play longer because - one, how I got those cards (expensive cards) and two broken combos
I’m halfway through so apologies if this comes up later… but how do you actually deal with a control player? Let’s say they are the threat… but they can respond to anything and if you make an enemy of them then you won’t get to play the game (whether it’s because they tunnel you out of spite or their whole deck is just interaction). I play a lot of creature decks so I always look like the threat, while a control player has nothing but is untouchable… until they just win out of nowhere
They cant answer everything. Especially if its 3v1. Sometimes its as simple as pointing out that they'll win by default if they're not sufficiently pressured.
Does the control Player have thrice as much mana *and* cards available? If not, then they surely cannot answer *everything.* They might answer the most important pieces, but if no Player is willing to go against the archenemy, the archenemy will simply just win. That's how magic goes.
Control is weak in commander inherently because you need triple the resources to deal with everything. The answer is to NOT play your big things immediately when you can and let someone else take their attention. And play your cards after the control player uses some removal. They cannot answer everything.
Slow down. That's the answer. And as a red player I hate hearing that too.
A rule of thumb I like when considering removal (whether it be targeted removal or deciding to trade creatures) is rarity. While somewhat arbitrary, and fluctuating, I think it’s a good baseline metric. Using an uncommon removal spell on a rare creature, or trading an uncommon creature a rare one, is generally a good idea
As far as board wipes, this is more deck building then gameplay strategy, but I play one sided board wipes. Artifact deck? Destroy non artifacts. Token deck? Destroy all non tokens. Etc
Rarity is a very bad way to determine removal effectiveness.
So if my commander is breyah and my turn one is land sol ring arcane signate into wayfarers bauble am I the threat?
Looking for advice… I just got into magic! I have two decks and know the basics and how to play for the most part. I only have a few friends that are into magic and it’s hard to link up to play with them often. How can I find people to play with? Do local game stores typically have non tournament game nights? If so are they beginner friendly?
P.S. I’m aware of Arena, but I’m most interested in commander.
Game stores are a great place to meet new people and often have a commander night! Give your LGS a call and see what their Magic schedule looks like. Bring a Magic friend to the store with you if it makes you more comfortable meeting new folks.
@ thank you!!
I swear, an episode like this is going to get people to up their "I'm just a widdle bean uwu" act tenfold before a game and to avoid using usual magic jargon.
The game is already full of people like that.
@DaClaptain Oh, I know. This opening bit though is a primer on behavior to curb or use to further reinforce that perception.
Bad threat assessment is very frustrating. I played a low-power game on spelltable during the pandemic where 3/4 decks were actually low power and the last player had Esika, god of yhe tree (aka prismatic bridge). One of the other players countered my 3-drop commander (mirri, weatherlight duelist) with no other creatures on my board. I asked them why they didn't save for esika and they said they wanted to use their mana. We lost to esika two or three turns later after they cheated out a few 7+ drops
Another game in LGS i was the clear on-board threat with mirri and a decent number of creatures, but was focused on taking tasigur player out. My opponents allowed them to get back cyclonic rift multiple turns in a row which didnt make any sense to me - yes, it solves the issue of my board but im not going to be attacking them until tasigur is out of the game and they cant beat cyc rift every turn either
I make decks that show minimum board presence so nobody thinks im the threat, but then im storm off out of nowhere and just win with no one seeing it coming
While great to do a video on, but i think people struggle to identify individual cards as threats, sure they see blight steel as a threat, but they don't see the mana cost reducers someone has as a threat. or they think Nelly Borca is a threat because its goading their creatures, but someone else has a sun titan and can recur stuff every turn
Or someone has 10 1/1 tokens, but is topdecking, while someone else only has an enchantment out but has reliquary tower and 15 cards in hand...
@beerman2000 that is exactly what the video was addressing, where they didn't talk about individual card threat assessment
@@MrFierygrave lol. Well luckily I was agreeing with you since I got comment happy before I made it that far in the video :)
I've seen soooo many players say, "You're open. I guess I'll attack you." Usually, players who are wide open at the start of a game aren't a big threat. Players also forget that their creatures are removal. If everyone attacks a player, that player will have to block eventually.
Strong disagree. The person that is open early game is likely using their turns ramping, and you absolutely should inflict some pain before it is too late.
A late-game ramped player has to still play conservative if they are below 20 life, but if you let them get away with the pity card too long, they will take over the game.
In the smaller chance the player has no blockers, just missed a land drop, and is behind, then I would agree with your statement.
@@snowmanO07 I'll ammend what I said: Don't attack a player just because they are open.
Maybe its just the pods I'm playing in these days, but decks that are ramping without building out any other sort of boardstate on turn 3 or 4 tend to lose. Maybe they get 1 or 2 spells off, but more often then not, those get countered or removed. Card advantage and tempo are way more important in my opinion. That said, I'm playing in a league for points which could be driving deck building in a specific dirrection.
If you are not planning to block with that creature why not attack? Maybe they are the only good attack. But I agree, just being open shouldn't be the only reason.
@@JavierOrtizBultron Imagine a senario with only one player behind(4 player pod). Attacking the player who is behind doesn't do anything proactive against the 2 players more likely to take you out and futher hinders a player you could be allying with.
Sometimes the only good attack is just the best of 3 bad or subpar attacks.
@@mrboberson7424 unless you need the creature to block most likely the player that's behind won't be able to help you anyway. The game needs to end, and most time if that player is really behind he is ready to scoop and/or be killed to go to the next game.
We used to do a lots of pity plays leaving that player alone but it extends the games way too long and most times doesn't change the outcome for that player.
It is hard to have a rule as everything has so many dependencies.
Hello, are you guys ok ? I see all those fire in LA area. If I'm not mistaken your studios are in LA ?
It's me with 100+ Time Spiral on the stack.
Jesus, I miss the "Greeting Human, Ha Ha Ha Ha"
When the game is taking to long I am the first to tell the table I am the treath, so the kill me first and I can go outsite and blaze one 😂
First the prof now command zone? Why am I so early today?
It’s me. For some reason everyone always thinks I’m the threat. Even if I tell them that I built this deck to be less competitive, they don’t believe me.
"Look at how they shuffle their decks."
I play commander for like 10 years and I still shuffle like a beginner, because I have little baby hands. No information to gain here😂
I have played Magic for 30 years. I drop my deck shuffling sometimes on purpose. I don’t want to look like I know what I am doing, 🤪
Running too many instant speed single target removal spells is why some get behind to begin with
Want to get the table politicking to help you assess? Tap your mana, place your removal spell on the stack and say "I'm going to cast ______, and I ***think*** I'm going to target _______, but I'm not 100% sure"
That's not how it works. You can, however, show that you have the spell before casting it. Otherwise, the Moment you cast it, if it is a targeted spell, you already have to announce targets.
@@lVideoWatcherl casting of a spell is covered by 601.2 (a through i) - 601.2a you put the spell onto the stack, 601.2b you announce modes and extra/alternate costs, 601.2c you announce targets.
Just do a and b, then discuss c with the table.
@ The point is that in order to actually cast it, you have to announce the target. How this is relevant is that exactly what you say you can do, you actually cannot do - you can discuss what should be targeted by revealing the spell beforehand, or you could be vague and insinuate you can remove something, but you cannot actually cast a spell without also announcing the target. The distinction is barely relevant, however.
@@lVideoWatcherl Right, you have to announce targets as one of the steps of casting a spell that has targets. I am saying that, while peforming the steps of casting the spell, talk to your opponents during the announcing-targets step (if you want help with threat assessment and don't like revealing cards before playing them). You can do exactly that.
The person with 14 cards in their hand is probably the threat. Don’t let them gaslight you!
It's me. I'm the threat. And there aint a thing you can do about it!
How do you become better at threat assessment when the three guys you play with know every card ever made, and you are just a casual player four?
At my lgs we do a 5 pod
To the listeners: if his name is Konnor, he's the threat.
59:31 this part is so rough for me. I will police the board all the way to 2nd place