I’m no seasoned professional but I never even considered stem splitting to master. I’ve had a couple clients send me stems to master but I never thought to separate them myself. Thats huge!
I love the way you teach man; your enthusiasm is contagious and makes me excited to get in the DAW. You're a great teacher and the way you describe/explain things with an open mind so we can follow your train of thought, is a type of teaching that really works for me. You discover things and share them, and we learn not only these things but the right attitude for moving forwards and continuing to grow. Thankyou for the great vids, u deserve a sick 2025! 🎺🦒
Glad to see someone else publicly embracing stem separating in mastering. I felt a little dirty about using it 😂 but I always ensure I use linear phase processing when tweaking. So why the hell not? It’s the future baby!
Really great tips! Only thing I'd disagree with is the choice of AI stem split software. Have you tested RX vs others? I did a quick comparison with a mate. I gave him my stem splits from SpectraLayers and he instantly ditched RX after hearing the stems lol. I couldn't believe how bad RX was. Can't be 100% sure which version he was using, so it could've been a poor comparison, but it's one of those processes that's improving tonnes so might be worth investigating.
There was a massive update to the quality of stem splits in RX this year for version 11. I agree, before it was really bad. Since version 11 it’s among the best I’ve heard and I stick to it, since the workflow is great.
@@simon_dupp Ah that makes sense then! I guess they're roughly about the same with each improvement. Wouldn't surprise me if they used the same algorithms on the backend.
@@PrincipalAudio If you compare spectral layers 10 to 11 there's also a huge difference in quality. They cracked the non-destructive method of splitting with SL 11 and the quality jumped up massively. I'm pretty sure RX uses very similar tech now too. I've never compared them, but seen as they have also got non-destructive splitting now, I assume it would be the same once put back together. If there's a negative difference and you are trying to use the split track on it's own it's problematic, however if you are recombining it, any difference between algorythems is negligible providing they are non destructive like all the latest ones. 😉✌️
Each time you run a signal through a limiter that has modes (such as Ozone and Pro-L2) it imparts a certain character to the signal of that mode. So having the signal run through that mode multiple times you are imparting that modes character into the signal multiple times on top of each other, that is why it won't null. Just listen (compare the original signal) to how the modes change the character of the original signal.
That AI stem splitting is actually done through spectral analysis useually afaik. It's super cool stuff, and I had a bunch of fun playing about with it in the spectral layers .ARA plugin. The fact you can now split it non-destructively is super cool and only really been able to be done in the last year or two! The previous couple of version of that tech it would deteriorate the recombined stems, which made it hard to justify using, but now it can be split without any degredation to overall quality it's super useful for small tweaks on indavidual elements.
You should try out TDR limiter when it goes on sale. It has the true peak limiter separate to the limiter as an inbuilt process, and you can put a clipper wherever you want in the chain.
I would love to see a video from you about various stereo wideners and techniques. The pros and cons and nerdy details wold be great as you deliver really great in depth information. Mainly interested in newer tools like the mastering widener in Acustica Audio Wine and Leapwing Audio StageOneV2.
About stem EQing, i've been quite experimenting with it lately with great results and to my actual impression and understanding it always works best with linear phase eq (as the stems are always a bit overlapping and using non-linear phase eq induces phase shifts between the stems). Curious to read your impressions and experience on the topic! Cheers and thanks for sharing ;)
Have you done that 180-degree phase shift into mid/side encoding thing in another video? Because I know I’ve seen that phenomenon before-and pretty recently too-since I knew exactly what was going to happen. I’m a real “lose it if I don’t use it” type of person, so it must have been fairly fresh in my mind. 😂 Actually, now that I think about it, a lot of these things seem familiar. 😊 You must be recapping some stuff, eh? Either way, it’s probably good to hear it more than once. I’ve learned so much from this channel over the years, and so much of it I’ve incorporated into my own workflow and mindset. You have definitely made me a much better ME. So thank you! Happy New Year 🎉-here’s to a great 2025!
Hey David, Yes, I've showed that excerpt before on the channel! And also the filters and clippers one is something I've shown here before too! (I reference the video where I explore it) I'm happy to hear these videos have been helping others! Happy new year to you too!
Interesting. While TP limiting is nice I feel like it’s driving the limiter too hard when certain genre’s (or people) asking for extremely loud masters in the -6/-5 lufsi range (it actually hits like -3 in the loudest parts). Of course you can control the low end that would typically hit the limiter the hardest to be able to control TPs somewhat, but that takes away from the impact. And TP limiting asks the limiter to work too hard and introduces more distortion that what can pass… what are your thoughts on TP limiting when extreme loudness is requested? Squash some dynamic peaks with saturation to be able to use TP limiting, or forego TP limiting entirely and allow the ISPs to provide some distortion to “mimic” the lost transients. Just curious about your practices
thanks for all your reseach ! good work ! So you still prefere true peak instead of oversampling on the master limiter in 25, right? Interesting, because my mastering engineer told me that he always use oversampling on the fabfilter L2 instead of true peak because it sounds more "open" in his opinion.
@@LUSH_AUS there's also spectral layers from steinberg, which has non-destructive stem splitting like RX does. If you use cubase or neuendo it seamlessly integrates as it's an. ARA plug and they have built their DAWs specifically to work with it as if it was part of the DAW it's self, it's really neat. If you use a dif DAW I'd test both to see what one you prefer, as I've never compared them personally so couldn't give an overall recommendation, but if you are already in the steinberg ecosystem it just makes sence, just like if you are already in the Isotopes one and have RX already and don't use Cubase or Nuendo like Nick, the one he's using makes sence. 😉
Oversampling is ineffective: raise the sample rate of the session to avoid pitfalls from stacked AA filters. 50dB is not a null at all, it's still 40dB over the noise floor! AI is frowned on because it sounds like *** farts, it completely destroys the timbre and dynamic envelope leaving nothing buy grey mush, why are you adding grey mush to a mix?
@@redcollard3586 while it may not be perfect it sums back together perfectly. So you’re actually not adding anything by using stem separation. At least with good modern algorithms like RX and spectralayers
The more convoluted their language, the more they hope to seem credible, as if drowning you in complexity somehow compensates for the fact that there’s no real substance to their ideas.
New mastering rules? Rules are rigid, mastering is not. Rules are not meant to be broken. Sometimes, breaking rules gets you to a new place you've never been before.
Have you seen how many “updates” there are on this channel? Of course it’s not rigid. You keep learning and adapting along the way. This video is just one instance of adaptation in a whole series of past and future ones😊
I’m no seasoned professional but I never even considered stem splitting to master. I’ve had a couple clients send me stems to master but I never thought to separate them myself. Thats huge!
Compliments of the new year Nick :)
I love the way you teach man; your enthusiasm is contagious and makes me excited to get in the DAW. You're a great teacher and the way you describe/explain things with an open mind so we can follow your train of thought, is a type of teaching that really works for me.
You discover things and share them, and we learn not only these things but the right attitude for moving forwards and continuing to grow. Thankyou for the great vids, u deserve a sick 2025! 🎺🦒
Great video and Happy New Year mate
Thanks mate and to you too!
Lets go!! thanks for all the indepth info you gave us last year, looking forward to this years videos!. Best wishes by the way!!
My pleasure! Excited for a new big year!
Thank you for saving me literally hours of researching random things I’ve also been hearing lately. This is gold.
You're welcome! Glad it was helpful!
Glad to see someone else publicly embracing stem separating in mastering. I felt a little dirty about using it 😂 but I always ensure I use linear phase processing when tweaking. So why the hell not? It’s the future baby!
bang on!
Happy New Year sir. Looking forward to learning from you again this year and elevate my skills.
HNY to you too! Excited to share more!
Really great tips! Only thing I'd disagree with is the choice of AI stem split software. Have you tested RX vs others? I did a quick comparison with a mate. I gave him my stem splits from SpectraLayers and he instantly ditched RX after hearing the stems lol. I couldn't believe how bad RX was. Can't be 100% sure which version he was using, so it could've been a poor comparison, but it's one of those processes that's improving tonnes so might be worth investigating.
There was a massive update to the quality of stem splits in RX this year for version 11. I agree, before it was really bad. Since version 11 it’s among the best I’ve heard and I stick to it, since the workflow is great.
Thanks man!
Yeah I've got RX11 too which serves well enough for me.
@@simon_dupp Ah that makes sense then! I guess they're roughly about the same with each improvement. Wouldn't surprise me if they used the same algorithms on the backend.
@@PrincipalAudio If you compare spectral layers 10 to 11 there's also a huge difference in quality. They cracked the non-destructive method of splitting with SL 11 and the quality jumped up massively. I'm pretty sure RX uses very similar tech now too. I've never compared them, but seen as they have also got non-destructive splitting now, I assume it would be the same once put back together.
If there's a negative difference and you are trying to use the split track on it's own it's problematic, however if you are recombining it, any difference between algorythems is negligible providing they are non destructive like all the latest ones. 😉✌️
@@DaftyBoi412 I use spectralayers. It’s the best I’ve heard imo!
Each time you run a signal through a limiter that has modes (such as Ozone and Pro-L2) it imparts a certain character to the signal of that mode. So having the signal run through that mode multiple times you are imparting that modes character into the signal multiple times on top of each other, that is why it won't null. Just listen (compare the original signal) to how the modes change the character of the original signal.
Exactly
Beautiful. Have a great 2025!
You too! Happy New Year!
That AI stem splitting is actually done through spectral analysis useually afaik. It's super cool stuff, and I had a bunch of fun playing about with it in the spectral layers .ARA plugin.
The fact you can now split it non-destructively is super cool and only really been able to be done in the last year or two! The previous couple of version of that tech it would deteriorate the recombined stems, which made it hard to justify using, but now it can be split without any degredation to overall quality it's super useful for small tweaks on indavidual elements.
Excellent work. Thank you for all you do Bro
Thanks m808!
🔥 Happy New Year
You should try out TDR limiter when it goes on sale. It has the true peak limiter separate to the limiter as an inbuilt process, and you can put a clipper wherever you want in the chain.
I use it too, as far as my knowledge and experience goes it is a brilliant plugin. 😎
@kadiummusic I love it, took a lot of manual reading to get results, but it’s really great
I bought it during Black Friday, this plugin is really nice. The HF limiter, in relative is amazing 🤩
You boys try limitless DMG
Is this TDR Limiter related to the Limiter N⁰6? Because I was unabled to find anything about it in the TDR website.
I would love to see a video from you about various stereo wideners and techniques. The pros and cons and nerdy details wold be great as you deliver really great in depth information. Mainly interested in newer tools like the mastering widener in Acustica Audio Wine and Leapwing Audio StageOneV2.
Clippers are great but they are real beasts...
Great video!
Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!
Great 2025 for you and all yours.
YES! And likewise back to you!
We really overthink audio huh. lol
Keep pushing every day!
@@panorama_mastering What is the average time it takes you to master a song?
Shoshin - forever student
About stem EQing, i've been quite experimenting with it lately with great results and to my actual impression and understanding it always works best with linear phase eq (as the stems are always a bit overlapping and using non-linear phase eq induces phase shifts between the stems).
Curious to read your impressions and experience on the topic!
Cheers and thanks for sharing ;)
Spot on! Using linear phase EQ on split stems keeps the resuming of the waveforms most accurate!
Have you done that 180-degree phase shift into mid/side encoding thing in another video? Because I know I’ve seen that phenomenon before-and pretty recently too-since I knew exactly what was going to happen. I’m a real “lose it if I don’t use it” type of person, so it must have been fairly fresh in my mind. 😂
Actually, now that I think about it, a lot of these things seem familiar. 😊 You must be recapping some stuff, eh? Either way, it’s probably good to hear it more than once. I’ve learned so much from this channel over the years, and so much of it I’ve incorporated into my own workflow and mindset. You have definitely made me a much better ME.
So thank you! Happy New Year 🎉-here’s to a great 2025!
Hey David,
Yes, I've showed that excerpt before on the channel!
And also the filters and clippers one is something I've shown here before too! (I reference the video where I explore it)
I'm happy to hear these videos have been helping others!
Happy new year to you too!
@ Yeah. I remember now. I just wasn’t sure at first. And I need to comment something so. lol. 😂
Interesting. While TP limiting is nice I feel like it’s driving the limiter too hard when certain genre’s (or people) asking for extremely loud masters in the -6/-5 lufsi range (it actually hits like -3 in the loudest parts). Of course you can control the low end that would typically hit the limiter the hardest to be able to control TPs somewhat, but that takes away from the impact. And TP limiting asks the limiter to work too hard and introduces more distortion that what can pass… what are your thoughts on TP limiting when extreme loudness is requested? Squash some dynamic peaks with saturation to be able to use TP limiting, or forego TP limiting entirely and allow the ISPs to provide some distortion to “mimic” the lost transients. Just curious about your practices
Why limit yourself? Mix and Master Unlimited
This shift should have happened back when the loudness war ended
thanks for all your reseach ! good work !
So you still prefere true peak instead of oversampling on the master limiter in 25, right?
Interesting, because my mastering engineer told me that he always use oversampling on the fabfilter L2 instead of true peak because it sounds more "open" in his opinion.
Which stem splitter are you using to achieve the perfect null for the stems?
I use Studio One and the stem separating is brand new and according to reviews not the best. 😎
iZotope RX
@@LUSH_AUS there's also spectral layers from steinberg, which has non-destructive stem splitting like RX does. If you use cubase or neuendo it seamlessly integrates as it's an. ARA plug and they have built their DAWs specifically to work with it as if it was part of the DAW it's self, it's really neat.
If you use a dif DAW I'd test both to see what one you prefer, as I've never compared them personally so couldn't give an overall recommendation, but if you are already in the steinberg ecosystem it just makes sence, just like if you are already in the Isotopes one and have RX already and don't use Cubase or Nuendo like Nick, the one he's using makes sence. 😉
Great video
Oversampling is ineffective: raise the sample rate of the session to avoid pitfalls from stacked AA filters. 50dB is not a null at all, it's still 40dB over the noise floor! AI is frowned on because it sounds like *** farts, it completely destroys the timbre and dynamic envelope leaving nothing buy grey mush, why are you adding grey mush to a mix?
@@redcollard3586 while it may not be perfect it sums back together perfectly. So you’re actually not adding anything by using stem separation. At least with good modern algorithms like RX and spectralayers
Yeah... I waited for this 🎉
I hope it delivered :)
The more convoluted their language, the more they hope to seem credible, as if drowning you in complexity somehow compensates for the fact that there’s no real substance to their ideas.
Thanks a lot ❤
Does having 2 IRC's active in this process effect the sound at all? If so what do you do about it?
What happens if I have 5 tracks running into a bus and I clip each of the 5 tracks individually and then use an eq on the bus? Am I going to hell?
@@yurikalashnikov2460 you’re buying a one way ticket to peak city 👀
@@yurikalashnikov2460 peak control should always happen after phase distortion if you want to benefit from the reduction in crest factor
This is what makes you the Michael Jordan of mastering. It's in the details
Thanks amte! Appreciate that!
New mastering rules? Rules are rigid, mastering is not. Rules are not meant to be broken. Sometimes, breaking rules gets you to a new place you've never been before.
Have you seen how many “updates” there are on this channel? Of course it’s not rigid. You keep learning and adapting along the way. This video is just one instance of adaptation in a whole series of past and future ones😊