I think the line i draw is how the amp feels to play under the fingers, which is something that no plug-ins ever really done. Neural amp Modeler got close, but no cigar. Physically playing my tube amps always has a bit more of a compression or feeling under the fingers that plug-ins dont, as well as taking fuzz pedals way better. good tones!
I literally have the same rig. RV Mkii 100 into a captor 16. Tip: add an MXR 10-band EQ in the loop and you can drop the volume down to bedroom levels very comfortably!
Awesome brother!! Welcome to the world of stacks haha You sure lucked out with that head but I feel ya on the need of getting that Captor X. It sounds great nevertheless albeit loud (prob)... Loving the new studio setup! Looks sick! Keep them coming!
I have the Rockerverb MKii 100 also, and it's a great amp for what it does, however, I would try a variety of different tube amps before arriving at an opinion on tube amps vs plugins. Not only do tube amps vary greatly in voicing, but their responsiveness and speaker interaction can vary a lot too. The modeling tech today has come a lot way from when I first started playing in 1990, however, I have yet to play through a plugin that can 100% capture a tube amp... good modelers and plugins can get you about 90% there, but there's always something like 10% missing. Also, you want to try boosting the Rockerverb with a TS or Maxon 808, cause that's going to tighten up the low end and enhance the character of the amp... That and the Boss SD-1 make the amp sound even more alive. The thing with tube amps is, you often have to boost them to really push the tube and get a good tone out of them. A JCM800 can sound thin and tinny on it's own at low volumes, but with an SD-1 in front, it comes alive.
I’m surprised to see more people aren’t talking about boosting these amps with a Boss SD-1, the SD-1 is one of the best boosts I’ve personally ever used with any Orange amplifier, and I feel like the reason that is is due to how the SD-1 adds high end frequencies that Orange amps tend to lack, as well as helping to tame the low end frequencies that most people don’t seem to like about Orange amps. It winds up making the amp sound much bigger than it initially is, and I’d argue that with the gain all the way down on the pedal it helps you get more tube saturation so that you can add a little bit of grit from the amp and get a fatter sound from the preamp being pushed harder than you’d be able to push it with a Tube Screamer. It’s a really cool combination that I wish more people who aren’t necessarily fans of Orange amp would try for theirselves. These days I’m using a boss GT-1000 and an Orange Crush Pro 120 but I’m also using a clean mid-boost to tighten up the front end without adding any extra gain that’s not coming from the amp, as well as a graphic EQ in the loop to both add frequencies you wouldn’t typically hear in Orange amps as well as simulate the effect of power tube saturation without actually adding any compression after the preamp but whenever I first got the amp I’d boost it with an SD-1 and it was everything I wanted out of that amp at the time until I got deeper into tone chasing.
@@Stretchwreckedem469 The SD-1 is a great boost but some amps react better to tube screamers. I have the SD-1 (Waza) and it pairs great with my Marshalls and the 5150 III (blue channel) but not so much with my Oranges, at least the tube ones. In my experience, Orange (and Engls) respond better to tube screamers. They have a tighter attack than the SD-1 imo. Obviously tone is subjective but sometimes the "best" overdrive isn't best for everything. I say this as a fan of the SD-1 and someone who owns it, as well as a dozen other boosts.
@@Darth.Shredder i’m actually kinda surprised that the SD-1 doesn’t really sounds as good with the Orange tube amps. Granted, I’ve never gotten to play an Orange Rockerverb, I’ve used the Boss SD-1 with my Orange Crush Pro 120 by sticking a compressor in the FX Loop and adjusting the knobs on the compressor to more accurately simulate the effect of tube saturation in the FX Loop, I’ve been able to get similar tones that sound more like an amp with 6L6 power tubes and somehow it retains a lot more clarity and tightens up the amp a lot more than with the SD-1, but idk if it’s due to the power amp being made to be as clean as possible, or if it’s due to the way the preamp works. Of course, I always bump up the gain just a tad with the SD-1, and it gets me into the same gain staging territory as a tube screamer, but it also makes the dynamics shine so much more with my amp. It’s weird too because it sounds immaculate on my Bugera 6262 Infinium crunch channel too with the gain all the way up.
@@Stretchwreckedem469 It's not that the SD-1 doesn't sound good, I just find that most tube screamers do a better job at tightening up Oranges. Even then, some tube screamers are better than others. Of all mine, I find the Keeley Red Dirt Germanium more effective than something like an Ibanez TS9. Also - IMO, the Orange brand pedals work really well with Orange amps. I use the Orange TwoStroke and Kong-pressor with my Oranges. Oddly enough, they don't work all that great IMO with any of my other amps.
Definitely something I can cover in a future video! The setup for the comparison riffs was; Oracle: Guitar -> DI -> Interface -> Amped Cabless Rockerverb into MIKKO2 Guitar -> DI Thru -> Amp -> Captor -> Interface Mic'd up Rockerverb Guitar -> DI Thru -> Amp -> Captor Attenuated Output -> Cab -> SM57 -> Interface
Ok, since you asked nicely :) Well, I felt like you got some good sounds out of it, it is versatile, it probably could use some boost action to get into real high gain territory. It gave me a Mesa-ish vibe but not really at the same time. Since you were able to get Oracle to sound nearly the same except with the volume rolled off, I was surprised. I went through all the ML plugins today I didn't already have and I chose the GnR and decided I had comparable or better with the rest, Oracle included. I do feel like the amp can do better than the plugin though. It's all about that in the room experience with the cab though, there's nothing like pushing air. It would be very interesting to run amp sims through the FX loop though and see what you can come up with. That always tends to be a little less good than playing through monitors but it should be possible to get a good sound that way as well. Time for some experimentation and figure out how to tweak that for all applications you may need
I can definitely hear that Mesa vibe, it's a very loose sound once the gain on the amp is up "too high" (as if there is such a thing). Got the HX One coming very shortly so I'll be able to try out a few different drive emulations before figuring out which one suits the amp best. I'm thinking it'll probably be something like the Plumes. I'll try out some amp sims through the cab for sure! Need to grab a reamp box to take it down to an instrument signal but it's on the list. Thanks for commenting! 💪
I have the same strange notion that a tube amp is something magical, even though I've played through several and it is different sitting in front of an amp and cab vs. an audio interface and plugins/IR's. But unless you play live without the cab being mic'd I just don't feel it's really necessary considering how great plugins are now. The comparison between the real amp and the Oracle put a smile on my face 😃
I definitely need to do some more testing with poweramps to see where the magic of the setup comes from - there might be something to the immediacy and 0 latency of an analog rig.
So I have a couple of things to note. I can't help but notice that you didn't try to put a tube screamer style boost into the rockerverb and the plugin to see how they take a more traditional metal boost. IMO this is what separates the Rockerverb/Super Crush 100 from the other Orange offerings. They get much closer to a normal metal tone but with that signature bark that Orange is known for. You had mentioned it's known for not taking pedals well and I'd like to know where you got that information as there is a whole genre based off putting HEAVY distortion and fuzz into Orange amps. I run a rat, shin-ei super fuzz and a tube screamer into my Super Crush and it takes it like a champ. Sounds heavy af. Never got those same results with those pedals and software. IMO that's where the software really falls apart is when you put real world pedals into it. Orange is also kind of an acquired taste. You have to really be looking for that sound to appreciate it.
I’m hoping to do a separate video covering the real amp vs plugins in detail, where I’ll also put it through its paces with pedals. I believe I said the Rockerverb isn’t known for being a pedal platform amp rather than saying it doesn’t take pedals well - two very different things. Rockerverb loves a big, thick fuzz for sure!
I'm committed to saving, cause I can tell i'm going be happier with a stack, my 2x12 30w tube combo cannot be herd with earplugs in and my kid hammering on the kit, and I'm too old to stand infront of kicks and chinas without plugs or ear muffs.
It's crazy that the amp sim and the real thing almost sounds identical. Does pushing the master volume on the oracle and the reckerverb both saturate the poweramp(if that make sensee)?
Oh there's no trouble in getting sims to SOUND the same. But in that same vein, a Hyundai Elantra and a 1970 Chevelle can both go 65 on the highway. If the destination is all that matters then sure, what's the difference. But I guarantee, one of those will change you a little bit and the other will not. if you want to be thrilled and inspired by the journey, you need the real thing for that.
Oh bro! Forget all these 7 lights, next purchase a big ass fan! You need to re-record that demo track but show your hair flapping in slow motion :) That'd be sweet!
@@KaiDown have you played through both at a cranked volume? I mean like loud as shit with the tubes cookin. Modeling cant do that. Modeling sounds good but it cant do that.
@@micahwatz1148 I've played the Rockerverb loud enough for my ears to ring, and didn't enjoy it much at all. I'd say when I'm really playing, I'm at a comfortably loud volume - enough to feel like it's loud, without shaking the walls.
@@KaiDown my or100 comes alive when its pushing a set of ppc2x12 at 16ohm, just at output tube breakup volumes. Its VERY loud, but that's where the magic is. Im a drummer, so the loud doesnt bother me for a little while. I can get GREAT tones from my axeFx, and recording with the axeFX is almost identical to double micing my cab into tube preamps and blending. Makes me sad to admit that the tones are so good either way. If it wasn't for the way my or100 blows my head back and sounds great w/o fuss, I'd likely not have a single 'proper' amp in the house. Maybe you can wear some ear plugs and crank that sh*t, see if the feel of playing changes. I stand in front of my cab blasting at times. The way it interacts with the guitar is also magical. Recording the fx send outputs is fun too. I run fx processor in my loop, and use it to attenuate volumes.
I think the line i draw is how the amp feels to play under the fingers, which is something that no plug-ins ever really done. Neural amp Modeler got close, but no cigar. Physically playing my tube amps always has a bit more of a compression or feeling under the fingers that plug-ins dont, as well as taking fuzz pedals way better. good tones!
I literally have the same rig. RV Mkii 100 into a captor 16. Tip: add an MXR 10-band EQ in the loop and you can drop the volume down to bedroom levels very comfortably!
Awesome brother!! Welcome to the world of stacks haha You sure lucked out with that head but I feel ya on the need of getting that Captor X. It sounds great nevertheless albeit loud (prob)... Loving the new studio setup! Looks sick! Keep them coming!
I have the Rockerverb MKii 100 also, and it's a great amp for what it does, however, I would try a variety of different tube amps before arriving at an opinion on tube amps vs plugins. Not only do tube amps vary greatly in voicing, but their responsiveness and speaker interaction can vary a lot too. The modeling tech today has come a lot way from when I first started playing in 1990, however, I have yet to play through a plugin that can 100% capture a tube amp... good modelers and plugins can get you about 90% there, but there's always something like 10% missing.
Also, you want to try boosting the Rockerverb with a TS or Maxon 808, cause that's going to tighten up the low end and enhance the character of the amp... That and the Boss SD-1 make the amp sound even more alive. The thing with tube amps is, you often have to boost them to really push the tube and get a good tone out of them. A JCM800 can sound thin and tinny on it's own at low volumes, but with an SD-1 in front, it comes alive.
I’m surprised to see more people aren’t talking about boosting these amps with a Boss SD-1, the SD-1 is one of the best boosts I’ve personally ever used with any Orange amplifier, and I feel like the reason that is is due to how the SD-1 adds high end frequencies that Orange amps tend to lack, as well as helping to tame the low end frequencies that most people don’t seem to like about Orange amps. It winds up making the amp sound much bigger than it initially is, and I’d argue that with the gain all the way down on the pedal it helps you get more tube saturation so that you can add a little bit of grit from the amp and get a fatter sound from the preamp being pushed harder than you’d be able to push it with a Tube Screamer. It’s a really cool combination that I wish more people who aren’t necessarily fans of Orange amp would try for theirselves.
These days I’m using a boss GT-1000 and an Orange Crush Pro 120 but I’m also using a clean mid-boost to tighten up the front end without adding any extra gain that’s not coming from the amp, as well as a graphic EQ in the loop to both add frequencies you wouldn’t typically hear in Orange amps as well as simulate the effect of power tube saturation without actually adding any compression after the preamp but whenever I first got the amp I’d boost it with an SD-1 and it was everything I wanted out of that amp at the time until I got deeper into tone chasing.
@@Stretchwreckedem469 The SD-1 is a great boost but some amps react better to tube screamers. I have the SD-1 (Waza) and it pairs great with my Marshalls and the 5150 III (blue channel) but not so much with my Oranges, at least the tube ones. In my experience, Orange (and Engls) respond better to tube screamers. They have a tighter attack than the SD-1 imo. Obviously tone is subjective but sometimes the "best" overdrive isn't best for everything. I say this as a fan of the SD-1 and someone who owns it, as well as a dozen other boosts.
@@Darth.Shredder i’m actually kinda surprised that the SD-1 doesn’t really sounds as good with the Orange tube amps. Granted, I’ve never gotten to play an Orange Rockerverb, I’ve used the Boss SD-1 with my Orange Crush Pro 120 by sticking a compressor in the FX Loop and adjusting the knobs on the compressor to more accurately simulate the effect of tube saturation in the FX Loop, I’ve been able to get similar tones that sound more like an amp with 6L6 power tubes and somehow it retains a lot more clarity and tightens up the amp a lot more than with the SD-1, but idk if it’s due to the power amp being made to be as clean as possible, or if it’s due to the way the preamp works. Of course, I always bump up the gain just a tad with the SD-1, and it gets me into the same gain staging territory as a tube screamer, but it also makes the dynamics shine so much more with my amp.
It’s weird too because it sounds immaculate on my Bugera 6262 Infinium crunch channel too with the gain all the way up.
@@Stretchwreckedem469 It's not that the SD-1 doesn't sound good, I just find that most tube screamers do a better job at tightening up Oranges. Even then, some tube screamers are better than others. Of all mine, I find the Keeley Red Dirt Germanium more effective than something like an Ibanez TS9. Also - IMO, the Orange brand pedals work really well with Orange amps. I use the Orange TwoStroke and Kong-pressor with my Oranges. Oddly enough, they don't work all that great IMO with any of my other amps.
hell yeah dude. stoked u got one
That's a sweet rig Kai. It sounds great. I'm not sure if I missed it, but would love to know how you had Mikko2 setup with cab and mic combo.
Definitely something I can cover in a future video! The setup for the comparison riffs was;
Oracle:
Guitar -> DI -> Interface -> Amped
Cabless Rockerverb into MIKKO2
Guitar -> DI Thru -> Amp -> Captor -> Interface
Mic'd up Rockerverb
Guitar -> DI Thru -> Amp -> Captor Attenuated Output -> Cab -> SM57 -> Interface
Ok, since you asked nicely :) Well, I felt like you got some good sounds out of it, it is versatile, it probably could use some boost action to get into real high gain territory. It gave me a Mesa-ish vibe but not really at the same time. Since you were able to get Oracle to sound nearly the same except with the volume rolled off, I was surprised. I went through all the ML plugins today I didn't already have and I chose the GnR and decided I had comparable or better with the rest, Oracle included. I do feel like the amp can do better than the plugin though.
It's all about that in the room experience with the cab though, there's nothing like pushing air. It would be very interesting to run amp sims through the FX loop though and see what you can come up with. That always tends to be a little less good than playing through monitors but it should be possible to get a good sound that way as well. Time for some experimentation and figure out how to tweak that for all applications you may need
I can definitely hear that Mesa vibe, it's a very loose sound once the gain on the amp is up "too high" (as if there is such a thing). Got the HX One coming very shortly so I'll be able to try out a few different drive emulations before figuring out which one suits the amp best. I'm thinking it'll probably be something like the Plumes.
I'll try out some amp sims through the cab for sure! Need to grab a reamp box to take it down to an instrument signal but it's on the list. Thanks for commenting! 💪
@@KaiDown All you need is the basic Axe I/O One, about £99 and you're good, it's got a dedicated reamp out
I have the same strange notion that a tube amp is something magical, even though I've played through several and it is different sitting in front of an amp and cab vs. an audio interface and plugins/IR's. But unless you play live without the cab being mic'd I just don't feel it's really necessary considering how great plugins are now. The comparison between the real amp and the Oracle put a smile on my face 😃
I definitely need to do some more testing with poweramps to see where the magic of the setup comes from - there might be something to the immediacy and 0 latency of an analog rig.
Nice ! Thanks for the video !
Great video! 💖
So I have a couple of things to note. I can't help but notice that you didn't try to put a tube screamer style boost into the rockerverb and the plugin to see how they take a more traditional metal boost. IMO this is what separates the Rockerverb/Super Crush 100 from the other Orange offerings. They get much closer to a normal metal tone but with that signature bark that Orange is known for. You had mentioned it's known for not taking pedals well and I'd like to know where you got that information as there is a whole genre based off putting HEAVY distortion and fuzz into Orange amps. I run a rat, shin-ei super fuzz and a tube screamer into my Super Crush and it takes it like a champ. Sounds heavy af. Never got those same results with those pedals and software. IMO that's where the software really falls apart is when you put real world pedals into it. Orange is also kind of an acquired taste. You have to really be looking for that sound to appreciate it.
I’m hoping to do a separate video covering the real amp vs plugins in detail, where I’ll also put it through its paces with pedals. I believe I said the Rockerverb isn’t known for being a pedal platform amp rather than saying it doesn’t take pedals well - two very different things. Rockerverb loves a big, thick fuzz for sure!
For the full mix demo, is that the captor with mikko or the real sm57?
I'm committed to saving, cause I can tell i'm going be happier with a stack, my 2x12 30w tube combo cannot be herd with earplugs in and my kid hammering on the kit, and I'm too old to stand infront of kicks and chinas without plugs or ear muffs.
It's crazy that the amp sim and the real thing almost sounds identical. Does pushing the master volume on the oracle and the reckerverb both saturate the poweramp(if that make sensee)?
Oh there's no trouble in getting sims to SOUND the same. But in that same vein, a Hyundai Elantra and a 1970 Chevelle can both go 65 on the highway. If the destination is all that matters then sure, what's the difference. But I guarantee, one of those will change you a little bit and the other will not. if you want to be thrilled and inspired by the journey, you need the real thing for that.
Oh bro! Forget all these 7 lights, next purchase a big ass fan! You need to re-record that demo track but show your hair flapping in slow motion :) That'd be sweet!
Real amps have something that modeling will never be able to achieve. Its in the feel of the sound on your fingertips.
I can’t say I agree at all, but if the magic is there for you, all the power to you! 😇
@@KaiDown have you played through both at a cranked volume? I mean like loud as shit with the tubes cookin. Modeling cant do that. Modeling sounds good but it cant do that.
@@micahwatz1148 I've played the Rockerverb loud enough for my ears to ring, and didn't enjoy it much at all. I'd say when I'm really playing, I'm at a comfortably loud volume - enough to feel like it's loud, without shaking the walls.
@@KaiDown my or100 comes alive when its pushing a set of ppc2x12 at 16ohm, just at output tube breakup volumes. Its VERY loud, but that's where the magic is. Im a drummer, so the loud doesnt bother me for a little while. I can get GREAT tones from my axeFx, and recording with the axeFX is almost identical to double micing my cab into tube preamps and blending. Makes me sad to admit that the tones are so good either way. If it wasn't for the way my or100 blows my head back and sounds great w/o fuss, I'd likely not have a single 'proper' amp in the house. Maybe you can wear some ear plugs and crank that sh*t, see if the feel of playing changes. I stand in front of my cab blasting at times. The way it interacts with the guitar is also magical. Recording the fx send outputs is fun too. I run fx processor in my loop, and use it to attenuate volumes.
Digital is good in a pinch. But ultimately inspired and sterile.
Nice shirt [12342345]
every time
correct