What Is A "Concealed Duct" Mini Split?
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- Опубліковано 14 січ 2024
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I installed one (18K BTU) in my attic to serve 3 upstairs bedrooms that were under-ducted from the main unit. I built the plenums (sheet metal) and designed the duct runs myself (3x8" supply, 2x10" central return). It works great, and likely more reliable/balanced than trying to do a multi-head for small (150-200sqft) rooms that don't need a ton of BTUs. The only downside to these is constructing plenums - I wish companies offered pre-built metal, insulated plenums with a way to quickly connect and seal to the unit. Some of that challenge was just me needing to improvise supplies since I was installing it during the covid shortages.
Is your unit in an unconditioned attic?
@@jeffa847 Yes. I insulated the unit with some fiberglass wrap, and the ducts are flex duct. At the time, 8" R-8 ducts were impossible to find, so I had to use R-6 for the runs, but I ended up burying them in R-30 fiberglass batt insulation. R-30 is the perfect thickness to put batts on either side of the duct, then one arched over the top. Everything is sealed with mastic and tape.
Unit is hung from the rafters (about 30" from the plywood attic platform on the ceiling joists) to allow some access to the panels on the bottom if a fan motor blows. Height also allows me to have a pretty long 3/4" pvc condensate pipe run (gravity, pump is disabled) out with the lineset and down. Also insulated with pipe insulation.
Works great, no leaks, probably better insulated than most installs I've seen in attics.
That’s been the biggest hang up for me with these units is that there still seems to be a lack of plenums made for these. At this point, I wish the manufacturers would include one or allow you to order one that would fit the unit.
@@chadhowell1328 Totally agree. If I did it again, I think I'd just build a box out of ductboard instead of bothering with sheet metal. Much easier to work with, and it's already pre-insulated. Assuming your duct runs and unit are supported correctly, there shouldn't be any issues with it pulling/falling apart.
I assume many of these units are just installed directly into a soffit in the ceiling, and the sup/ret are in the same room and just get a basic grill slapped over them. I have an install in mind where I may do something like that, but I don't really hate the way wall-hung minis look, and that's a heck of a lot less work. They tend to be cheaper too.
great customer install :) thank you
Great unit! Thank you for posting more videos.
Awesome video. I ran across this type of unit and am considering it for my garage
Thanks for the concealed duct overview video. Interesting to see a couple installed with the duct runs.
yes please do a install on this I have a specific use case for this unit
@@clue___ I installed one of these. I really like it. Works well at distribution to different rooms
@@paulstewart323 how many rooms did you get out of it and how many ducks per run can you run? I'm assuming it's according to size of course
@@clue___ I just put 3 bedrooms and the bathroom on it and put a ductless in the living room kitchen area but I think it all could have been served by the ducted unit if I used big enough ducts to not restrict air flow
@@paulstewart323 nice!
Beautiful
hope fully that condensate pump is accessable for servicing
Pretty cool!!!
Great video, like the concept inside, but that doorway under the outdoor unit will become an ice rink in the winter, and / or have a frozen drain, not critisizing as such but maybe an issue, enjoy your vids. Dave
You're correct. I was thinking exactly the same thing!
Did that IQ unit replace the other 2 condenser units or in addition to . If in addition to those to just became service persons nightmare with service points against two walls and each other. Those concealed ceiling units are a bear to service even with a hanging ceiling and worse with Sheetrock installed. Speaking from experience.
This system is going to be impossible to service once the drywall is installed. Everything around them should have removable panels so the indoor unit, and it's piping to the outdoor can be serviced/replaced in the future. As others have said not using insulated ducting is a mistake.
The first problem, that snow not having a rain hood over the outdoor units. They suck the fresh falling snow in, which freezes to the coils. Now you probably have temps that stay above 10F or so (in Utah) , but here in Iowa, all my units will have the coils that never finish the defrost cycle, and slowly ice builds up from the bottom to the top of the coils. I just shut all 4 units down because of this, as the outdoor temps have fallen to -16F for highs, which is improving today to +5F. Two of my units are Trane/American Standard, but they are Gree from searching the part numbers on the circuit cards. I purchased them as surplus units two years ago, as American Standard has moved to Mitsubishi manufactured units. I've not seen any units that work other then the Diakin down to zero outdoor, and have a defrost cycle that properly clears the outdoor coil.
The worst unit I have for defrost cycle is a TurboAir, as it clearly was never designed for heat pump operation below 32F. This was my first unit I got off eBay, and now they don't make mini splits any longer as a company. So even the units the indicate operation to -22F, where the COP is 1, are wrong for my area. We do have the extremes of a hot summer, to cold winters here. But compared to where I grew up, central Iowa is the "banana belt" of tropics (North Dakota). The problem with a ground source heat pump is the limestone that is a few feet below the surface here. And even then the amount of equipment is costly assuming you can get a heat exchanger loop deep enough to extract earth heat. Water well types of heat exchangers are expensive to drill through limestone, and you need two of them. Lot's of maintenance with pumps, water to refrigerant, added equipment and control. But it is where we will have to go in the future with fossil fuels being banned. Still no clue where all that electricity is going to come from, and shared with EVs.
Excellent Comment !
You have outlined the issues with these units being installed , and ( mandated ) perhaps to get Canadians off natural gas.
They are expensive, $12-20K for a unit in a house with electric baseboard heaters supplying 2 units , one on each floor.
Gov't offers a $6K rebate , so you can gues where the pricinf is coming from.
I think fossil fuels will be around for a while.
Anyway, 35 yrs ago, my uncle did a geothermal heat pump outdoors with a well and separate unit. They always had problems with it. But the water it drew was suppost to be like 55`f through the winter months.
Why do you have hoses behind the outside unit, leading the rain into the wall. Slanted improperly. 0:39 That does not look right at all. Shouldn't it lead rain water away from the wall?
It’s a good thing that this set up is not complicated or anything.🙄
I would use insulated duct but otherwise a real nice setup
All that flex is going to make the unit work harder than it has to. So much static loss through that stuff. A 4" duct is only good for roughly 65 cfm airflow. What kind of spiderweb did they install!?
It's a 1.5 ton unit so assuming the standard 400cfm/ton it would require 600cfm total. I saw at least 6 ducts so that's 100cfm each. These mini-split style units don't need as much airflow but I agree it seems a bit too restrictive.
You can make these babies WiFi enabled - wifi thermostat part number is WF-60A1, plugs into the red port on the motherboard
Love those units .... but the flares bother me. fFares must be installed with proper torque wrenches, but seldom are. Consequently. 5 to 10 yrs down the road leaks will appear....and they will be a bear to find and fix. Yes, I know 5-10 yrs sounds like a long time, but trust me, it will fly by fast and the anguish will be awful. Best advice I have: be sure the flares were properly torqued, and even if so, be sure you have access to the flares for a leak sniffer at some later date.
Would you not want to try to use all the availible area for the ducts? There looked like enough room for one more duct.
I have a question, where is this located? This looks like a pretty good install however im questioning the uninsulated flex. What if in the summer when it is hot and humid? Here in NC those would be sweating badly in the summer, unless if it’s a conditioned space. Above the ceiling is not a conditioned space and those could sweat in the summer
He's most likely in Utah where humidity is usually never a problem. That's where he lives.
Correct this is Utah very low humidity
@@diyhvacguy ahhh okay gotcha
i hate those units ,they're always a pain in the ass to service because of celling space
Same here, its a glorified slit system now with terrible access
I think I would of put a small over head lean too.
Two things I would have done differently, Used insulated duct, put a plenum on the supply.
How do you addd on a basement???!?!?!?!
All that excellent work to have the heat come out on the ceiling ??
That ductwork looks vey sketchy, dryer vent type.
Insulated hard ducts with smooth interior surfaces to the floor, would be important to me.
As noted multiple times, servicing these units might be a pain.
They couldn’t be put in the floor. This is a basement that’s being converted to living space. And the ceiling is all insulated so doesn’t really matter if it’s hard pipe and insulated? I think not. It’s a pretty small space. I’m sure this will do the job just fine. But I just wanted to share the install with everyone.
I misspoke, I meant running duct down the walls to have the warm air vent at floor level.
Thanks for posting, great channel !!
I'm in South Florida and I was thinking about replacing my 5 Ton Central AC system with a Mini Split system. My wife HATES the idea of utilizing the wall mounted units and the problem with the ceiling mounted units is that in a place like my Family Room / Kitchen, I'd probably have to go with a 16-18K BTU unit right in the middle and take out the two existing AC ducts that are there. Would I be able to put one of these in the middle of those two vents and run ductwork to them... They are both 12X12 Vents. Or would I be better off putting two 8-12K BTU Ceiling Cassettes there? The room is 20'X18' about evenly split between the Kitchen and Family Room.
I have a video coming out soon on installing a full home mini split system with ceiling cassettes. Maybe it will help you make your decision!
If you end up needing remote support for your project, feel free to check out our remote support membership at Patreon.com/diyhvacguy
Cheers
@@diyhvacguy That would be great, but I'm starting to lean more towards doing Concealed Ducted Units. I was watching a video of a guy who put in 5 units to replace his Central AC and he ran ducts over to all the existing vents. That would be perfect for me. I have a 5 ton unit that's failing and it looks like this would probably be my best bet.
Enjoy watching your videos. The outdoor unit is 18K BTU, does that make the 2 indoor units 9K BTU each?
Correct
just sweet guy
My issue with Mini splits is that the inside units ALWAYS develop mold. You have to clean the inside unit every 3-6 months.
I did not know this, they are being installed in the PNW and on Canada;s west coast, where mold is an issue with moisture and winter.
Yes I’ll be doing a video on how to mitigate the mold issue
Buy the new senville units or c&h astoria. Easy removal of the inside fan. Or put an uv led strip.
👏👏👏👏👏
I used to use central air . Died on me so decided to go with ductless mini split . The idea of maintained temp with more efficient cooling was very appealing . Turned out to be a terrible idea now that i know more how air conditioning works . Ductless mini splits should not be sold and used unless in dry hot locations . The concept of a mini split . Cool down the space then slightly warmer air blows out to maintain the area . Well suddenly i noticed the humidity levels rising a lot . When the set temp is reached . Made me realize ductless mini splits should not be sold . With central air , after set temp is reached it shuts off . It runs for only around 30 seconds after set temp is reached pulling in that warmer air out the air intake . Keeps humidity at around 50% … ductless mini split runs non stop so when the set temp is reached those ice cold coils are warmed slightly resulting in very wet air blowing into the room . Example - put a full water bottle in your freezer for 2 hours . Take it out and set it in your sink . What do you see after a short time ? Huge amount of condensation on the bottle . Same thing with ductless mini split . That wet air gets blown into the room . So annoyed that these companies do not disclose this .. wish i could sue the company to take them out of my house and fix the holes .
Now I’m curious how ducted mini splits work . If they work the same way as my central air does i would swap my mini splits out as i can hopefully some time afford to .
You can set the fan to turn off at Thermostat off on ducted mini splits on the wall controller.
we call them med static units
How does someone add a basement to their house? I would think that would be insanely expensive to do.
Just got to buy them when they're on sale.
@@ncooty How does a basement go on sale? lol
What they did to the existing basement was make it a legal living sleeping space. You must have and exit for fire safety.
@@Ozzie4Para Just keep an eye out for basement sales.
@@ncooty😂😂😂😂
You’re gonna sheet rock so all you see is the supply vent? Yeah those things never break. I hope the tech that comes out to service this has a drywall saw to access it
I reside in Hawaii, what are all these things??
This one is here in Utah
Unit placement is terrible.
Blocking light into window and dripping on path to door. What a joy to shower while fumbling keys.
Brother,, This country city AC technician work,, you 💐👍
I think these are also called cassette unit mini splits.
I always called square ones ceiling cassettes
We installed a lot in Dubai this (Fcu )Fan coil units this will not effective man trust me
Why in the holy hell would you add ducts to a ductless system?
In this particular instance because the wall is literally underground. You’d have to mount your wall unit and then figure out how to get the lineset up and out which is difficult when the upstairs is finished.