Just a minor bit of pedantry of my own, a callback that I found amusing. When Sisko announces that the station is heavily armed, Martok, husband of Sirella, says, and I quote: "It's a trick, an illusion created by thoron fields and duranium shadows." That is exactly the same treknobabble they use in the pilot to bluff to the Cardigans that the station is heavily armed when it is in fact at that point toothless. I at least thought it was a nice callback.
I get what a thoron field is as it's something the Cardigans would probably use to prevent scans, but duranium shadows? That sounds either like fake structures to visibly hide weapons emplacements, or something to make it look like the station has armour, at least to me anyway.
@@stephandolby Yeah, me too - duranium sounds like a durable uranium. Mabye depleted uranium armour? Not sure why the shadows it would cast would be any different though.
This episode has one of my favorite bits with Quark and Odo when hes showing off his Disruptor “I thought you were the ship’s cook” “Yes and everyone on that ship thought they were a food critic!” Nice bit of background for Quark, and the sarcasm Odo has when they see the Disruptor isnt there is amazing
I think Root Beer gets to the core of why the Federation is the "Utopia" of the Star Trek future. It's not because its vision of post-scarcity social democracy is perfect, but because it is the *least* dysfunctional. It is the *least* unjust. It is the *least* cruel, exploitative, and dehumanizing form of a society that its creators could envision. And that's really all we can do. Try to make society *less bad* as much as we can.
Option B, making everyone get along by force like the Klingons. Or taking control like the Romulins. Or to put it out in simple terms: Plan B, B for Borg.
Re the klingons, their return to trek in DS9 was not originally planned. The studio wanted a shake up to try and return TNG viewers (possibly an overreaction to a seasonal change in viewer counts as transpires) and the initial idea was to have Vulcan withdraw from the Federation, which would have been a big shake up whilst using existing props too but eventually the idea of the klingons becoming hostile again became the game plan and I have to say it wove in with the Dominion storyline very well. And Worf became a great additional cast member, were Doran got lots of opportunities to expand Worfs character. We'll never know if the Vulcan route would have created a better story or not, but I love how the DS9 team were given an executive order that could have really derailed their plans, bit managed to work it as an opportunity and tell a wider story with complex political intrigue from a species known for blunt aggression.
"O'Brien, we need defences so the Cardassians will never be able to intimidate this station so easily again" *Installs 10 phaser banks and 5 torpedo launchers* "O'Brien, the Dominion have shown themselves to be a powerful threat. Upgrade the defences" *O'Brien sighs and x5's the defences* "O'Brien, the Dominion have a supply route to Cardassian right outside our station" "Ah fucking hell" *MINEFIELD*
10:16 oh but don’t you see? He was the one who withdrew from Bajor. It’s clear that he was saddled with the blame when the military was trying to say face so clearly if invading Bejo is now seen as a bad thing he has to likewise have the credit for leaving.
"On Bajor, I merely implemented policy, I didn't make it. If I had, things would've turned out quite differ..." before cuts him off. To be fair to Dukat, he was only prefect of Bajor for about a decade so he didn't cause the mess... but he certainly didn't fix anything either.
I absolutely loved the underhanded sneaky way Sisco let the cardigans know without directly disobeying Starfleet. Also I loved garac's delivery of "it's insidious" Also I hated dax's haircut
Seeing Pat Tallman front-and-centre usually means either she or Nana Visitor is about to need to visit the infirmary. I've definitely noticed similar with characters in other media played by Dan Shea, stunt double/coordinator on Stargate.
Hoisted by your alternate universe petard Space Dog? Patricia Tallman was also in a surprisingly decent remake of Night of the Living Dead. She's been in a lot of movies and series (Usually as stunt crew) She's nice.
Odd. On the version I see the tailor scene and the scene between Gowron and Worf are in part 1. Does our Narrator have a different version of the episode?
There's another possibility. The DS9 streaming version and the Blu-Ray release have Way of the Warrior as a single double-length episode; it is also listed as a single episode on IMDB (S4E01 only as opposed to S4E01 and S4E02) with a single release date. If he assumed that the episode was originally shown in two parts (even if they were aired back-to-back), then not knowing where the cut-off for part one was would force him to make an educated guess. The Klingon fleet leaving for Cardassia is a good "cliffhanger" moment, and it's at about the halfway point of the episode, but I think the actual cut-off (if there is one) would be right after Gowron invites Worf to accompany him to Cardassia - there's a scene fade (for the commercial break) and immediately after, Gowron restates his request almost as if it might have been expected for viewers to have spent a week between then and the last line.
@@azurehelm It's often aired as 2 individual episodes in reruns and syndication even if it was aired as a feature length instalment originally. (Much like a couple of Voyager and TNG episodes)
Correct @azurehelm I'm using the double-length episode and thought Martok (husband of Sirella) buggering off to Cardassia was the most logical stopping point for the sake of neatness.
With all holo-deck incidents Star Fleet was had, why not funnel boarding parties into a holo-suite simulating the bridge, and then make like a DM, and keep throwing red dragons until they can't hurt you?
@Unlimited_Lives You did open yourself to your followers temptation to tongue tangling torture... With creation of the wheel of names. Can wait for one where you just say "nope" and spin again.
Just to be pedantic, that is not what "the exception that proves the rule" means. An exception proving a rule means that a stated exception (parking allowed between 6pm to 6am M to F) proves an unstated rule (that parking is not allowed all other times).
Even if the origin and meaning of that phrase wasn't disputed (which it is), the usage I've provided is a commonly accepted variant. I understand the desire to poke a thing when it doesn't conform to what you expect, and I used to be a right proper little grammy fashfash myself years back, but nothing used here was wrong. I had the same conversation about "begs the question" previously. Language changes. It evolves. Refusing to adhere to anachronisms is why we're not using thy and thine any more.
@Unlimited_Lives I did say I was being pedantic, to someone who claims to be a pendant. However, the "language evolves" rationalization is often an excuse for ignorant or pernicious usage of language that serves more to obfuscate communication than enrich it. I generally do not find it a convincing argument.
@Unlimited_Lives The world indulging in ignorance and poor thinking is something worth resisting. Even if it ends up being a futile gesture. It is certainly not something to embrace.
So Worf refused to join Gowron because it would be dishonorable to break his oath to Starfleet...and then decides that he's going to resign from Starfleet? Why couldn't he just resign first, and then join the Klingons? Surely that wouldn't break any oaths, right? Worf's motivations seem kinda glib here. I get that the writers wanted 'Worf refuses glory in favor of honor', but the pieces don't quite seem to fit.
I guess that just adds to the complexity of his character, but you are right, he has resigned from Starfleet before in TNG, only to return to the ship at the end of the two-part episode as if nothing had happened (I guess Picard was just slow on processing the paperwork).
With Bajor being neutral, but Starfleet running DS9, wouldn't that be an issue considering DS9 is harbouring, at least temporarily, escaping political people, especially those belonging to a race that kept them under occupation for 50 odd years? Also, I do hope Garak got to see those klingons who jumped him in the last episode. I'm sure they'd have a lot to catch up on. Or at least, an encounter with a convenient airlock. As an aside, one thing with Trek that gets me is the transporters. The whole "murder express" is one thing, but someone is being dematerialised, transmitted, and then rematerialised, over the course of about 3 seconds. Now, I still find it unsettling that you see people all the time looking round while they're still reforming (doesn't sound healthy at all), but the Klingons are boarding via transporter. If you've got a way to figure out where they'll appear, say with eyes, it's not difficult to just aim where they'll appear and be helpless, at least for a few seconds. Or if you want to be particularly nasty, have a large bit of metal held in front of them while they're in the middle of reforming.
In a combat situation, 3 seconds is a very long time; even if you're trained for it, it takes about that long to register, process, and begin responding to a new circumstance, especially if you're otherwise occupied by, for instance, the armada of warships shooting at you outside.
Today's Thought Experiment: What did we do with all the Klingon bodies?
Quark got a new menu item
Vacuum dessication
Shortage of soil reclamators (Shakaar, last season), surplus of bodies.
Opportunity knocks.
From atoms we came, and to atoms we returned.
Meaning we tossed them all in the larger replicators and hit "decompile"
Klingons don't care for the corpses of their own people. So, some lucky ensign got the job of carting them to the nearest airlock.
Just a minor bit of pedantry of my own, a callback that I found amusing. When Sisko announces that the station is heavily armed, Martok, husband of Sirella, says, and I quote:
"It's a trick, an illusion created by thoron fields and duranium shadows."
That is exactly the same treknobabble they use in the pilot to bluff to the Cardigans that the station is heavily armed when it is in fact at that point toothless. I at least thought it was a nice callback.
I get what a thoron field is as it's something the Cardigans would probably use to prevent scans, but duranium shadows? That sounds either like fake structures to visibly hide weapons emplacements, or something to make it look like the station has armour, at least to me anyway.
@@stephandolby Yeah, me too - duranium sounds like a durable uranium. Mabye depleted uranium armour? Not sure why the shadows it would cast would be any different though.
Nice spot
This episode has one of my favorite bits with Quark and Odo when hes showing off his Disruptor
“I thought you were the ship’s cook”
“Yes and everyone on that ship thought they were a food critic!”
Nice bit of background for Quark, and the sarcasm Odo has when they see the Disruptor isnt there is amazing
I think Root Beer gets to the core of why the Federation is the "Utopia" of the Star Trek future. It's not because its vision of post-scarcity social democracy is perfect, but because it is the *least* dysfunctional. It is the *least* unjust. It is the *least* cruel, exploitative, and dehumanizing form of a society that its creators could envision. And that's really all we can do. Try to make society *less bad* as much as we can.
Option B, making everyone get along by force like the Klingons. Or taking control like the Romulins.
Or to put it out in simple terms:
Plan B, B for Borg.
A lot of people miss the point that the Federation is a paradise only because everyone is putting the effort in to keep it that way.
Oh, do take care of yourself! hugs and thank you for keeping on despite any nasty cold!
Re the klingons, their return to trek in DS9 was not originally planned. The studio wanted a shake up to try and return TNG viewers (possibly an overreaction to a seasonal change in viewer counts as transpires) and the initial idea was to have Vulcan withdraw from the Federation, which would have been a big shake up whilst using existing props too but eventually the idea of the klingons becoming hostile again became the game plan and I have to say it wove in with the Dominion storyline very well. And Worf became a great additional cast member, were Doran got lots of opportunities to expand Worfs character.
We'll never know if the Vulcan route would have created a better story or not, but I love how the DS9 team were given an executive order that could have really derailed their plans, bit managed to work it as an opportunity and tell a wider story with complex political intrigue from a species known for blunt aggression.
Knowing The Visitor is imminent, is very exciting. ❤️
6:56 interesting to know that those upgrades sound pretty much exactly the same as the pretend upgrades from the first episode of this show
Obrien had a few years of prep time to make it so.
@AC20sAkimbo he is like batman and can beat anyone with preptime
@alexneff you know I was going to disagree, but he did defeat Garak in a later episode with prep time, so you might have something there.
"O'Brien, we need defences so the Cardassians will never be able to intimidate this station so easily again"
*Installs 10 phaser banks and 5 torpedo launchers*
"O'Brien, the Dominion have shown themselves to be a powerful threat. Upgrade the defences"
*O'Brien sighs and x5's the defences*
"O'Brien, the Dominion have a supply route to Cardassian right outside our station"
"Ah fucking hell"
*MINEFIELD*
So much so that both the Cardassians and Klingons assume the same trickery at play.
10:16 oh but don’t you see? He was the one who withdrew from Bajor. It’s clear that he was saddled with the blame when the military was trying to say face so clearly if invading Bejo is now seen as a bad thing he has to likewise have the credit for leaving.
"On Bajor, I merely implemented policy, I didn't make it. If I had, things would've turned out quite differ..." before cuts him off. To be fair to Dukat, he was only prefect of Bajor for about a decade so he didn't cause the mess... but he certainly didn't fix anything either.
*save face
"He cannot be evil me. I am evil me."
I absolutely loved the underhanded sneaky way Sisco let the cardigans know without directly disobeying Starfleet.
Also I loved garac's delivery of "it's insidious"
Also I hated dax's haircut
Thanks for another great review 💪😁👍
You are appreciated
Cheers, you! Have yourself a good weekend.
Seeing Pat Tallman front-and-centre usually means either she or Nana Visitor is about to need to visit the infirmary. I've definitely noticed similar with characters in other media played by Dan Shea, stunt double/coordinator on Stargate.
Hoisted by your alternate universe petard Space Dog?
Patricia Tallman was also in a surprisingly decent remake of Night of the Living Dead. She's been in a lot of movies and series (Usually as stunt crew) She's nice.
One of the big battles, got to love the defense scenes.
Starhammer Fourtrek Thousand got me good! Kudos there!
Speaking of the consequences of Worf's actions, ooooooh boy am I looking forward to the after-summary reaction to the end of Sons of Mogh.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Odd. On the version I see the tailor scene and the scene between Gowron and Worf are in part 1. Does our Narrator have a different version of the episode?
There's another possibility. The DS9 streaming version and the Blu-Ray release have Way of the Warrior as a single double-length episode; it is also listed as a single episode on IMDB (S4E01 only as opposed to S4E01 and S4E02) with a single release date. If he assumed that the episode was originally shown in two parts (even if they were aired back-to-back), then not knowing where the cut-off for part one was would force him to make an educated guess. The Klingon fleet leaving for Cardassia is a good "cliffhanger" moment, and it's at about the halfway point of the episode, but I think the actual cut-off (if there is one) would be right after Gowron invites Worf to accompany him to Cardassia - there's a scene fade (for the commercial break) and immediately after, Gowron restates his request almost as if it might have been expected for viewers to have spent a week between then and the last line.
@@azurehelm It's often aired as 2 individual episodes in reruns and syndication even if it was aired as a feature length instalment originally. (Much like a couple of Voyager and TNG episodes)
@@gaz-l621 Yeah, Netflix shows it as just one feature length episode (S4 Ep1), so I wasn't sure where the to be continued would be.
Correct @azurehelm
I'm using the double-length episode and thought Martok (husband of Sirella) buggering off to Cardassia was the most logical stopping point for the sake of neatness.
With all holo-deck incidents Star Fleet was had, why not funnel boarding parties into a holo-suite simulating the bridge, and then make like a DM, and keep throwing red dragons until they can't hurt you?
I wish I had the money to buy admiral rank and make gwarons name change to " ol' crazy eyes "
The real sticker is one of them loses an eye I think. If that's him, it could've been "Gw-Arrg-on."
@LucasKeesee-vm8yp martok loses the eye
@@alexneff I did guess at that.
So "Ol' Crazy Just Eye" then?
@LucasKeesee-vm8yp marktok husband of sirilla is not who I am talking about
@alexneff my bad :-P
Also also, some loving patron PLEASE name gowron "old crazy eyes"
Please!
I hope the storm avoids you i just saw whats going on over there right now 140 mph winds hang on captain
Soylent Green, replicator fodder...
Caught an oopsie 7:31 Martok husband of "Mirella" instead of Sirella
Good catch and points to you. I'll put this one down to cold-addled brain.
@Unlimited_Lives You did open yourself to your followers temptation to tongue tangling torture... With creation of the wheel of names. Can wait for one where you just say "nope" and spin again.
Whilst I fully admit that would be hilarious, I'm not going to do that to a patron. Hmm. Not unless I clear it with them first anyway.
Seasoning for Gahg (and yeah the Klingons who eat it know what it is).
Just to be pedantic, that is not what "the exception that proves the rule" means. An exception proving a rule means that a stated exception (parking allowed between 6pm to 6am M to F) proves an unstated rule (that parking is not allowed all other times).
Yeah I was going to say the same thing. It really should be "The exception proves the existence of a rule."
Even if the origin and meaning of that phrase wasn't disputed (which it is), the usage I've provided is a commonly accepted variant. I understand the desire to poke a thing when it doesn't conform to what you expect, and I used to be a right proper little grammy fashfash myself years back, but nothing used here was wrong. I had the same conversation about "begs the question" previously. Language changes. It evolves. Refusing to adhere to anachronisms is why we're not using thy and thine any more.
@Unlimited_Lives I did say I was being pedantic, to someone who claims to be a pendant.
However, the "language evolves" rationalization is often an excuse for ignorant or pernicious usage of language that serves more to obfuscate communication than enrich it. I generally do not find it a convincing argument.
Whether you personally find it convincing is irrelevant. The world will move on without you. That's the point.
@Unlimited_Lives The world indulging in ignorance and poor thinking is something worth resisting. Even if it ends up being a futile gesture. It is certainly not something to embrace.
So Worf refused to join Gowron because it would be dishonorable to break his oath to Starfleet...and then decides that he's going to resign from Starfleet? Why couldn't he just resign first, and then join the Klingons? Surely that wouldn't break any oaths, right? Worf's motivations seem kinda glib here. I get that the writers wanted 'Worf refuses glory in favor of honor', but the pieces don't quite seem to fit.
I guess that just adds to the complexity of his character, but you are right, he has resigned from Starfleet before in TNG, only to return to the ship at the end of the two-part episode as if nothing had happened (I guess Picard was just slow on processing the paperwork).
More L[ee/y]tas, the better!
With Bajor being neutral, but Starfleet running DS9, wouldn't that be an issue considering DS9 is harbouring, at least temporarily, escaping political people, especially those belonging to a race that kept them under occupation for 50 odd years?
Also, I do hope Garak got to see those klingons who jumped him in the last episode. I'm sure they'd have a lot to catch up on. Or at least, an encounter with a convenient airlock.
As an aside, one thing with Trek that gets me is the transporters. The whole "murder express" is one thing, but someone is being dematerialised, transmitted, and then rematerialised, over the course of about 3 seconds. Now, I still find it unsettling that you see people all the time looking round while they're still reforming (doesn't sound healthy at all), but the Klingons are boarding via transporter. If you've got a way to figure out where they'll appear, say with eyes, it's not difficult to just aim where they'll appear and be helpless, at least for a few seconds. Or if you want to be particularly nasty, have a large bit of metal held in front of them while they're in the middle of reforming.
In a combat situation, 3 seconds is a very long time; even if you're trained for it, it takes about that long to register, process, and begin responding to a new circumstance, especially if you're otherwise occupied by, for instance, the armada of warships shooting at you outside.
Thanks once again @Unlimited_Lives - you absolutely nailed it! :)
6:56 interesting to know that those upgrades sound pretty much exactly the same as the pretend upgrades from the first episode of this show