This game mode seems to break most player's brains. Including self-proclaimed hyper low IQ Harstem. I think he said his IQ was in the range of 2 in an early video.
Harstem: *Throws, Down Pylon, Gateway and Cybernetics Core* Clem *Sends Reaper* Harstem: "He's just playing Terran I bet. Ah he's such a boring player, Holy Crap"
@ there were tanks in the back covering the main army. It was scarier because he doesnt have to siege the templar/archon and can retreat into sieged tanks he never has to risk. Terran has no splash like this without sieging. Its basically that patch where you could medivac pick up sieged tanks, but with zero micro requirements
@@ScubaFingSteve You can definitely compare two different things, but I didn't. What I did was mention what the push would have instead. The templar work out better because of the lower mineral cost and not cut into marines.
I've learned from playing 2v2 that Medivacs with any zerg army is wild. Roach/Hydra or Ultras or even Muta's just last forever with medivac support. Also SCV's can repair Protoss units so you could do a Colossus rush and pull the boys like terran does a Thor rush
Not every unit is repairable by an scv in the protoss army due to some being biological rather than mechanical units; though most of them are mechanical. You just happen to come to the conclusion mainly due to the fact that most biological units that do get used are only really viable early game and fall off quickly or are used as harassment runby units (i.g., zealots and adepts). By the time your teammate does use medivacs you've almost certainly switched to mass stalker or something different. The only real exception here from my knowledge are high templars.
Honestly, going for hatcheries, quick expands and defende with queens, all larvas used for drones is insane, the echo is even better than a regular zerg, you can use terran harass like drops, and use some protoss units like immortals, High templars, or whatever you need against the enemy comp. So yeah basically, using zerg to expand and build drones (maybe queen in early game too cause why not), probes for assimilators, and then focus on 1 race for the army, and add spell casters from any race in the mix.
it's an interesting mod, but I feel like the overall meta should be obvious if you think about the strengths and weaknesses of each race. Zerg has one strength and one strength alone: Economy. It's an extremely metagamey strength at that, their units are only balanced by the fact you can make so many of them, and tech switching. Use Zerg to make eco, but for the love of God don't make their units. Terran units are easily the most effective for their specific use-cases, perfect counters to everything in the game, but extremely vulnerable to their counters. Universally useful/all-purpose core units, they can create perfect engagements where they lose little to nothing. Protoss units are individually easily the most powerful and cost-effective, they can get fast upgrades and hit unique extreme power-spikes with their tech. i feel like the answer is to just use Zerg to eco, but make toss or terran armies, OR make early terran/protoss to do the one thing zerg can't do, harass early, which would then allow you to massively boom into insane eco advantage with Zerg armies and swarm them.
Zealot-marine is unironically probably incredible in the early game. Your squishy marines don't take the hits because the zealots tank for them and you have good dps, which is sorely lacking with zealots (they do good dps, but it's melee and has to connect to do damage, so ranged ends up higher dps).
Marines/marauders are obviously the best damage dealers that you can get early on. With roach or zealot to tank for them, they can probably beat any early mid game army. Bonus points because they're all bio and can be healed by medivac. Roaches are easier to cover with guardian shell, but zealots have significantly better stats and isn't as vulnerable to siege tank/immortals.
Terrans: Protoss and Zerg are so over powered, what is this!? Just nerf the living essence out of Protoss and- Zerg Cabal: ... Terrans: Out of PROTOSS! You can now play all 3 races at once Terrans: *Plays terran*
This is Clem we are talking about. He is at his best when microing MMMs. Any other Terran would almost certainly mix stuff. And tbf, Clem did start using Toss spellcasters.
Problem with this mod is tech being costly for all 3 races. Gate, core, baracks, factory, starport, spawning pool, lair, infestation pit, hive. All super expensive. Zerg hatcheries (assuming there are no orbital commands in this mod) Protoss assimilators. You always want medivacs and always want sentries (and eventually Templar). Composition can either be marines and marauders or mass hydra. (Ranged Zerg). Baneling medivac drops are straight up lethal. Mass recall a whole Terran mech army directly in the enemies base.
I didn't expect this to turn into an "Is it imba or do I suck" episode. But then again, it's all races at once :D Edit: But very cool on-the-fly composition making.
I think for this mod to be more balanced. Upgrades should be made more expensive, but also affect the other races. Issue is that all races have 5 upgrades that don’t map to each other. Zerg and Terran have separate 3 sets of attack and 2 armors while toss has 2 attack and 3 armors. Which probably means making mech attack map with Zerg melee and toss shield. Or one simpler, you can even disable upgrades all together in this mod. Marines are just too dependent on upgrade differences. Best army seems to be marine, maruder, medivac, sentry, Templar for the guardian shield and storm. Hydra medivac sentry is also pretty good.
Bio + Disruptors would be sick. You would not need the toss upgrades with that too. You could also go bio + lings (+ultras late game) so you have the bio for back line DPS and melee units for tanking. You could also do this with zealots.
Pure terran or toss early game would instantly be the best option since all lavae can be turned into pure eco to feed the war machine. Every not drone zerg unit is innefficient. Later game medivac zerg is great. Mule drop repair on protoss is fun also.
It'd be cool to see this same mod, but with some kind of unified upgrades. I think the tech cost keeps you mostly to one or two races, but the upgrades really seem like they'd restrict late game to mostly one race plus a couple casters. For example, terran with storm.
Medics + lurker... Libs + stasis... Tanks + storm... Ghosts + lings... Thor drop with prism warping zealots... Lurkers recall... I think an early ghost+adepts or sentries (with surcharge ability of the nexus) would totally break the game.
It only works to get multiple races late game, and even then it's probably not worth it unless it's a very specific unit such as mothership or medivac or something. The main difference with this is that it's like playing vs a random opponent since you won't know what race they pick until you scout their first production facility.
Not sure I agree that it needs to be late game. Upgrades for an off-race are going to be a problem, but you can definitely mix in off-race units that don't need upgrades. For example, medivacs, most casters (except the HT), WMs, observers and DTs are all pretty upgrade-insensitive. There are also quite a few protoss units that hard-counter one specific thing so well that it might be worth building a gate and a cyber core mid-game just to give yourself a quick transition if you need it. Ecos also synergise quite well - in general I'd imagine you probably want to go for a zerg eco at the beginning with another race's less awful fighting units, since Z generally does have less cost effective units than T. And the fact that you can have fighting units other than queens without wasting larva means you can drone *hard.* Especially since between photon cannons, missile turrets and supply depots it feels like you could deflect a *lot* of the typical harassment that's usually used to stop zerg exploding.
Guardian Shield hydras with medivac support was not something on my "to watch" list. We need more videos with this mod. The combinations are almost limitless!
My head knows swapping between races is not going to be great, but my heart tells me medivac/zealot/hydra with a pivot into medivac/ultra in the late game is the only correct call with a mod like this.
I saw a video of a Mod with Starcraft, Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 , it was wild watching Zerg vs Human, and the Human having heroes. The Zerg still won 2-0.
I do think the optimal way to play this mod is to use protoss only to build eco and get units that don't need upgrades, such as high templars and disruptors.
I think macro wise, start with a zerg. Then switch to terran and build command centers to sky rock your future economy. then to add some sprinkles at the end, add some nexus to use the recall and build one mothership. So to use mass recall with terran unit already well position before the recall. Tanks and liberators all siege and all the other units u want that good be sick!
Not only that but the amount you have to invest into tech to get things, if you have to do it for 3 different races. Like buying a barracks, a gateway, cybernetics core, hatchery, lair, spawning pool etc just for basic units.
I legit said to myself as I was watching the beginning “this will show Clem how ridiculously op Terran is” LOL 😂 like we’ve been screaming for years now
Do this have this in Warcraft 3, I always wanted something like this. What's funny about this replay is my first thought was Clem is literally just gonna play like it's Terran
I don’t know how to make mods but i propose someone make the following: take feedback away from ht, give it to dt, make dt cloak an energy spell, and make it replenishable by feedbacking enemies. Perhaps have like 3 feedbacks to fill up the energy bar. I want hunter-killer DTs. Also buff ht water balloons I guess
Once played a 3vs3 and my two team mates dropped out right in the beginning - I had all 3 races and 3 bases from the beginning - was kinda fun - but also insanely difficult to manage. I think I played Tempest - Marine - Hydra
To be fair to Clem's opening. It's a massive waste to tech up more than 1 race from the start. You end up like every toss build with 3 units at the 10min mark.
5:38 My first thought was that tank hydra would be pretty good. Now I get to see if that was a good or bad thought lol Edit: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TANK PART? I could have told him hydra tank without the tanks would be bad lol
I would be really really interested if there was another version of this mod where you are restricted to 2 races. Zerg + Terran, Zerg + Protoss, Terran + Protoss. I feel like that slight restriction would make the game restricted/balanced enough to make strategizing a litle more realistic.
@ mmmm, except Psi-Storm exists and it's one of the best spells in the entire game. Cannon rushes you could repair?? And add Marauders to???? Add the 2 cheesiest races together and you could do things that would make the Geneva Convention sound like the Geneva List of Gentle Suggestions.
@@noah.2B okay cannonrushing with scvs is dirty 😂 but Z+T has creep, and like others said, you can just take zerg eco from larvae and play (mostly) terran units with it, it's surely the best strat all around
WOW with this Mod you really can play the 3 strongest Units off all races together Marine, Marauder, Medivac. Really curious to see more games.
Lol
Brilliant
you obviously forgot about tank, it is also the strongest unit
top comment lmao
😂😂😂😂😂
"I hadn't considered that in order to get a lair I need a hatchery" - Harstem 2024, sc2 pro player
“Can batteries heal hydras”
the main obstacle to having all three races, is that now you have 3 tech trees to research
This game mode seems to break most player's brains. Including self-proclaimed hyper low IQ Harstem. I think he said his IQ was in the range of 2 in an early video.
Harstem: *Throws, Down Pylon, Gateway and Cybernetics Core*
Clem *Sends Reaper*
Harstem: "He's just playing Terran I bet. Ah he's such a boring player, Holy Crap"
dawg those are the 3 things you need to get a adept, there is literally no way around that
a hyrda, a marine and an adept walk into a medivac....
I LOLed really hard
Definitely needed more Medivacs to heal that hydra investment.
Marines are Cheap and plentiful.
Underrated comment 😂
Dude already drunk... It's spelled Hydra
"tell my if you've heard this one before'
Clem with marine, medivac, tank, templar, storm is the stuff of nightmares
It's basically just terran but switch siege tanks for templar.
@ there were tanks in the back covering the main army. It was scarier because he doesnt have to siege the templar/archon and can retreat into sieged tanks he never has to risk. Terran has no splash like this without sieging. Its basically that patch where you could medivac pick up sieged tanks, but with zero micro requirements
@@ScubaFingSteve yeah, it's better, just barely
@@AntiDoctor-cx2jd you cannot in good faith compare storm/archon to sieging tanks up and down. I hate terran rn too but like its not close
@@ScubaFingSteve You can definitely compare two different things, but I didn't. What I did was mention what the push would have instead. The templar work out better because of the lower mineral cost and not cut into marines.
Totally normal game of Starcraft 2 here. Featuring the classic hydra adept medivac drop.
Top kek.
and a sentry, of course.
I've learned from playing 2v2 that Medivacs with any zerg army is wild. Roach/Hydra or Ultras or even Muta's just last forever with medivac support. Also SCV's can repair Protoss units so you could do a Colossus rush and pull the boys like terran does a Thor rush
muta medivac sounds terrifying
Not every unit is repairable by an scv in the protoss army due to some being biological rather than mechanical units; though most of them are mechanical. You just happen to come to the conclusion mainly due to the fact that most biological units that do get used are only really viable early game and fall off quickly or are used as harassment runby units (i.g., zealots and adepts). By the time your teammate does use medivacs you've almost certainly switched to mass stalker or something different. The only real exception here from my knowledge are high templars.
@@BunnyHoppin- Basically every zerg composition with medivac is.
Medivac are absolutely cracked. Even Zealots are insane with them. They heal like 9hp per second. Flying shield batteries
Clem and harstem matchup on funny mods, the best thing I could have wish for this sunday !
A random mod tournament would be funny as heck
It's so generous of Clem to invite Harstem to another video.
More of this mod pls this was sick
Idea for a series: Harstem invents his own mods and invites other pros to play them. “Harstem Balances SC2”
It's actually great that Clem played just Terran haha, at least you have a comparison of how well does it compare to normal play
Honestly, going for hatcheries, quick expands and defende with queens, all larvas used for drones is insane, the echo is even better than a regular zerg, you can use terran harass like drops, and use some protoss units like immortals, High templars, or whatever you need against the enemy comp.
So yeah basically, using zerg to expand and build drones (maybe queen in early game too cause why not), probes for assimilators, and then focus on 1 race for the army, and add spell casters from any race in the mix.
Queens and medivacs sound like unbreakable defence early game tbh
Fungal storm. Now that's something.
@@guyclykos Omg that would be a crazy combo
Fungal Disruptor
This mod definitely has potential for some interesting strats. However I'd be scared of playing it due to hotkey conflicts.
it's an interesting mod, but I feel like the overall meta should be obvious if you think about the strengths and weaknesses of each race.
Zerg has one strength and one strength alone: Economy.
It's an extremely metagamey strength at that, their units are only balanced by the fact you can make so many of them, and tech switching.
Use Zerg to make eco, but for the love of God don't make their units.
Terran units are easily the most effective for their specific use-cases, perfect counters to everything in the game, but extremely vulnerable to their counters. Universally useful/all-purpose core units, they can create perfect engagements where they lose little to nothing.
Protoss units are individually easily the most powerful and cost-effective, they can get fast upgrades and hit unique extreme power-spikes with their tech.
i feel like the answer is to just use Zerg to eco, but make toss or terran armies, OR make early terran/protoss to do the one thing zerg can't do, harass early, which would then allow you to massively boom into insane eco advantage with Zerg armies and swarm them.
Zealot-marine is unironically probably incredible in the early game. Your squishy marines don't take the hits because the zealots tank for them and you have good dps, which is sorely lacking with zealots (they do good dps, but it's melee and has to connect to do damage, so ranged ends up higher dps).
Twll me you're not a toss player without telling me you're not a toss player 😅
also you can heal Zealots with Medivacs
This is absolutely insane
star craft breaking down racial barriers. im for it
Marines/marauders are obviously the best damage dealers that you can get early on. With roach or zealot to tank for them, they can probably beat any early mid game army. Bonus points because they're all bio and can be healed by medivac. Roaches are easier to cover with guardian shell, but zealots have significantly better stats and isn't as vulnerable to siege tank/immortals.
6:42 ROFL had me in tears xD
Terrans: Protoss and Zerg are so over powered, what is this!? Just nerf the living essence out of Protoss and-
Zerg Cabal: ...
Terrans: Out of PROTOSS!
You can now play all 3 races at once
Terrans: *Plays terran*
Dude, you are the best!
This is Clem we are talking about. He is at his best when microing MMMs. Any other Terran would almost certainly mix stuff. And tbf, Clem did start using Toss spellcasters.
Dutchman solves balance whines with this one weird trick.
Harstem: u can't go inbetween races because of the upgrades.
meanwhile Clem, already mixing spellcasters in his army
Problem with this mod is tech being costly for all 3 races.
Gate, core, baracks, factory, starport, spawning pool, lair, infestation pit, hive. All super expensive.
Zerg hatcheries (assuming there are no orbital commands in this mod)
Protoss assimilators.
You always want medivacs and always want sentries (and eventually Templar).
Composition can either be marines and marauders or mass hydra. (Ranged Zerg).
Baneling medivac drops are straight up lethal.
Mass recall a whole Terran mech army directly in the enemies base.
I didn't expect this to turn into an "Is it imba or do I suck" episode. But then again, it's all races at once :D
Edit: But very cool on-the-fly composition making.
I think for this mod to be more balanced. Upgrades should be made more expensive, but also affect the other races.
Issue is that all races have 5 upgrades that don’t map to each other.
Zerg and Terran have separate 3 sets of attack and 2 armors while toss has 2 attack and 3 armors.
Which probably means making mech attack map with Zerg melee and toss shield.
Or one simpler, you can even disable upgrades all together in this mod. Marines are just too dependent on upgrade differences.
Best army seems to be marine, maruder, medivac, sentry, Templar for the guardian shield and storm.
Hydra medivac sentry is also pretty good.
Please more. I want to see a thoughtout build order go against 2-3 people
You could set up games like this in vanilla Brood War. Bonus neatness: You had a 200 supply cap for each of the three species!
Oh yeah, please do more videos with this mod, absolutely hilarious
finally a perfectly balanced game of starcraft
(no one casts mirrors)
Bio + Disruptors would be sick. You would not need the toss upgrades with that too. You could also go bio + lings (+ultras late game) so you have the bio for back line DPS and melee units for tanking. You could also do this with zealots.
That's really fun, thank you! And cool to see Clem! Waiting for more!
Really fun looking mod. Looks like the best way to win is to pick one race and get spellcasters from the other race
I would love to see more of this mod, but for fun outlaw getting upgrades, that way whacky compositions are more viable late game
I would be interested in watching more of this
Pure terran or toss early game would instantly be the best option since all lavae can be turned into pure eco to feed the war machine. Every not drone zerg unit is innefficient. Later game medivac zerg is great. Mule drop repair on protoss is fun also.
1:15 I dno, I'd think Terran Supply would be pretty sick, can full wall and repair them.
They should make universal upgrades for this mod so that you dont get locked in one race, fun concept! Play more games!
It'd be cool to see this same mod, but with some kind of unified upgrades. I think the tech cost keeps you mostly to one or two races, but the upgrades really seem like they'd restrict late game to mostly one race plus a couple casters. For example, terran with storm.
more videos on this please
I love seeing you learn strategies on the fly
this mod has a lot of potential i would like to see more
*input race* is OP!
The game:
"Hey ! I've found a way to solve the balance problem : All 3 races as one !"
Ends up being TvT all the time...
Medics + lurker...
Libs + stasis...
Tanks + storm...
Ghosts + lings...
Thor drop with prism warping zealots...
Lurkers recall...
I think an early ghost+adepts or sentries (with surcharge ability of the nexus) would totally break the game.
Tournaments with this mod would be amazing, it’s balanced but the amount of strategies is crazy
The disappointment in Harstrem's voice when he realized that Clem was just playing terran is hilarious
This mod is probably too overwhelming to become really popular, but to see a high level tournament of this would be very fun to watch.
Really enjoyed this mod. Might actually get back into sc2 to try it
It only works to get multiple races late game, and even then it's probably not worth it unless it's a very specific unit such as mothership or medivac or something. The main difference with this is that it's like playing vs a random opponent since you won't know what race they pick until you scout their first production facility.
Not sure I agree that it needs to be late game. Upgrades for an off-race are going to be a problem, but you can definitely mix in off-race units that don't need upgrades. For example, medivacs, most casters (except the HT), WMs, observers and DTs are all pretty upgrade-insensitive. There are also quite a few protoss units that hard-counter one specific thing so well that it might be worth building a gate and a cyber core mid-game just to give yourself a quick transition if you need it.
Ecos also synergise quite well - in general I'd imagine you probably want to go for a zerg eco at the beginning with another race's less awful fighting units, since Z generally does have less cost effective units than T. And the fact that you can have fighting units other than queens without wasting larva means you can drone *hard.* Especially since between photon cannons, missile turrets and supply depots it feels like you could deflect a *lot* of the typical harassment that's usually used to stop zerg exploding.
unironically they should host a tournament on this mod and see who ends up coming up with the strongest comp
Fast korean fingers + terran units 🎉😂
Guardian Shield hydras with medivac support was not something on my "to watch" list.
We need more videos with this mod.
The combinations are almost limitless!
Very funny and entertaining MOD. I hope to see more games.
My head knows swapping between races is not going to be great, but my heart tells me medivac/zealot/hydra with a pivot into medivac/ultra in the late game is the only correct call with a mod like this.
I'm curious to know if medivacs will heal zerg flying units or if they only target ground. IIRC SC1 medics healed flying bio units.
Nice mode! I was thinking that with mass medivac zerg army would be unstoppable.
Clem probably wondering why that CC wasn't an orbital when he attacked it.
I saw a video of a Mod with Starcraft, Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 , it was wild watching Zerg vs Human, and the Human having heroes.
The Zerg still won 2-0.
I love how out of an almost infinite potential for unit compositions he went with hydras medivac.
Which is essentially just marine medivac but worse.
I do think the optimal way to play this mod is to use protoss only to build eco and get units that don't need upgrades, such as high templars and disruptors.
I think macro wise, start with a zerg. Then switch to terran and build command centers to sky rock your future economy. then to add some sprinkles at the end, add some nexus to use the recall and build one mothership. So to use mass recall with terran unit already well position before the recall. Tanks and liberators all siege and all the other units u want that good be sick!
Harstem! Just play toss but build scvs to repair your robo units! Do a robo all in with scv support! And throw down a battery too if you want.
"I can't believe he's just playing terran... this guy has no shame" standard ladder mood LOL
can the SCV's repair Protoss building and their mechanical units?
I want to see real tournaments in this mod! :D
I actually love this concept. What a treat! GOODBYE Serral you punk
Zerg with medivacs is already a super composition.
Now random is truly a new race to play.
The problem with the mod is like he says, the upgrades. It pays to pick one race mostly. They need to combine the +1 upgrades to affects all 3 races.
Not only that but the amount you have to invest into tech to get things, if you have to do it for 3 different races. Like buying a barracks, a gateway, cybernetics core, hatchery, lair, spawning pool etc just for basic units.
@@archyology yep for sure. But the evo, engie bay/forge problem is super easy to solve at least.
If Harstem just masses stalkers with blink I'm gonna lose my crap
Tech tree of 3 races sounds like nightmare to keep up with.
I legit said to myself as I was watching the beginning “this will show Clem how ridiculously op Terran is” LOL 😂 like we’ve been screaming for years now
Clem never says no. He's too nice.
Let's start a petition to turn this into the new Playtest patch! It would certainly mix up the meta. 😈
Do this have this in Warcraft 3, I always wanted something like this. What's funny about this replay is my first thought was Clem is literally just gonna play like it's Terran
I kinda like this mod. This is for players who loves playing hybrid race. ❤
I don’t know how to make mods but i propose someone make the following: take feedback away from ht, give it to dt, make dt cloak an energy spell, and make it replenishable by feedbacking enemies. Perhaps have like 3 feedbacks to fill up the energy bar. I want hunter-killer DTs. Also buff ht water balloons I guess
Harstem playing Amon while Clem is playing Raynor and Tassadar
Tempest Broodlord would be sick with the range
"this is a theoretical Victory" lmao
Once played a 3vs3 and my two team mates dropped out right in the beginning - I had all 3 races and 3 bases from the beginning - was kinda fun - but also insanely difficult to manage. I think I played Tempest - Marine - Hydra
Build a Nexus next to a orbital so you can get full energy and make alot of mules
To be fair to Clem's opening. It's a massive waste to tech up more than 1 race from the start. You end up like every toss build with 3 units at the 10min mark.
What do you think about Viper Tank Stalker
Ling, bane, marine - unstoppable!
Hydra and laser giraffes are natural enemies but would be great team.
Zerg+medivacs is the way to go
Protoss with actual healing and repair, that is scary
You should really try to get a game against uthermal. The craziness would go through the roof.
Viking + Brood Lord + Sentry!
You need to play this with uThermal. With all this cooking, what better person to play other than the Iron Chef himself Thermy? 😆
Hi. Can someone link some more videos with this specific mod? or tell how to find in on UA-cam. So far I was only able to find Harstem's video.
this would go super well with archon mode i think
Play nydus. Imagine Nydus - colossi - thors. Great stuff.
I'm eager to see more games captain!
This was cool as heck
5:38 My first thought was that tank hydra would be pretty good. Now I get to see if that was a good or bad thought lol
Edit: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TANK PART? I could have told him hydra tank without the tanks would be bad lol
I would be really really interested if there was another version of this mod where you are restricted to 2 races.
Zerg + Terran, Zerg + Protoss, Terran + Protoss.
I feel like that slight restriction would make the game restricted/balanced enough to make strategizing a litle more realistic.
T+Z is the right choice then, every time
@ mmmm, except Psi-Storm exists and it's one of the best spells in the entire game.
Cannon rushes you could repair?? And add Marauders to????
Add the 2 cheesiest races together and you could do things that would make the Geneva Convention sound like the Geneva List of Gentle Suggestions.
@@noah.2B okay cannonrushing with scvs is dirty 😂 but Z+T has creep, and like others said, you can just take zerg eco from larvae and play (mostly) terran units with it, it's surely the best strat all around
Name your favorite 3 race combination army: Ready set go:
It would probably always be better to go for zerg hatcheries. As for pushes zergling seige tank or zergling marauder might slap?
Guardian shield roaches would be something against marines.
you could already do this with infestors