Also, Daniel, While rand didn't describe nynaeve to loial, he said this: I'm from the two rivers, I had a female friend who I lost. because remember, in the show, they think she's straight up dead from Winter's Night. Loial, being the big smart bean that he is, saw the Two river braid on this young woman, and he was like, "HUH. Must be Rand's friend! come!" because Loial is just so damned wholesome.
That's a good point but a few more lines of dialog would have made this a lot clearer. While the braids are so important in the Two Rivers, I'm not sure about knowing that a particular braid would have to be from that area as opposed to anywhere else. Although Loial did have a lot to say about Rand's hair, so maybe there's more to it. Gotta say his hair bothers me, though. It's the only thing on the show so far that's taken me out of the moment by how artificial it looked.
I believe Rand actually told Loial about Egwene but he found Nynaeve instead. Rand would have no reason to talk about Nynaeve and he was actually searching for Egwene.
Yes. If you listen Loial even talks in the background about a braid being significant for women in the Two Rivers. I took it as Loial figured out that Rand's friend must have a braid and came across Nynaeve and was like "look, I found one!" and brought her to Rand. I do think that there should've been a little scene connecting them, though, as this part was very confusing to a lot of people.
I've read the books but my mom didn't and her predictions are: Rand: gonna be a warder. Mat: can channel and is the dragon. Nynaeve/Egwene: going to be aes sedai. Perrin: clueless but thinks he is going to be a tinker.
Completely new to this story. My predictions: Egwene is just a run of the mill channeler. Nynaeve is a powerful sorceress but not the Dragon. Mat isnt a channeler or going mad, he is just cursed from the dagger and he will go back to normal when someone destroys the dagger or takes it away from him. Perrin is a werewolf. Rand having not shown any magic yet must be the Dragon.
My predictions/thoughts for characters as someone who hasn't read the books: - Rand is the dragon reborn, he has the fire aesthetic with the red hair and he gives off stereotypical chosen one vibes with things like him and his dad having some separation with the rest of the two rivers and his different ancestry. - Mat is either a summoner going mad because he's male or him being in contact with the dark one in his sleep and being potentially threatened with his sisters' deaths, I heard the term dream walker at some point so maybe he's that like the dark one. - Perrin is a werewolf also self-sacrificing because of his guilt. - Egwene is just a summoner who could become a novice if given the opportunity but maybe she'll stay loyal to the others, she chose becoming a wisdom over Rand so who knows. - Moiraine is obviously hidding something, she's not evil, maybe she'll be misguided/doing what she thinks is right which conflicts with the good guys or the show will reveal something big that we've been missing that will put it into perspective. - Lan is just cool and I ship him and Nynaeve which may lead me to become an emotional wreck later down the line. - Nynaeve could possibly be the dragon reborn with the power she holds but I don't think she was in the list of potential dragon reborns. If anyone of these characters dies I will be distraught. This show has been very good at making me emotionally attached which is reflected in how the last episode affected me which is to say it's made me cry.
I'm liking where your head is at. Watch and find out! Everything is subject to change with Rafe at the helm, too. So it's not like any of us truly knows what will happen
As a non-book reader, these are my predictions regarding the roles of the characters from the Two Rivers: - Nynaeve : Will be a Novice, but probably will decide she didn't want to be an Aes Sedai along the way - Egwene : Aes Sedai or possibly The Dragon Reborn. She learned to channel almost immediately - Rand : A Warder, very probably Egwene's. I think his hinted lineage and strength points to that direction strongly - Perrin : Probably a Warder too or continuing to be a blacksmith. So far he is the hardest to read - Mat : He's my pick as the male channeler in the group, since he seems like he can withstand whatever it is inside the knife he picked up
Thx for the insight into your perspective. As a long time book reader, seeing people like you enjoy the story/make your own predictions takes me back to my youth when I would debate this with friends in our garage.
Its really interesting learning what people that haven't read the books predict about the show. Spoiler: . . . . . . . . . . . . . All your predictions are wrong. So you can make new predictions :D
I actually think the boots on the bed was a choice. There's a scene earlier where Lan says something to Moiraine about them coming home to Tar Valon and she says that T.V. isn't home for her. Her home is "this saddle" and "these boots" and a few other things. I think they were showing that Moiraine isn't really at home in the tower, and that she's more comfortable when she's ready for action and ready to be on the move, trying to accomplish her goals out in the world. It's a contrast that exists in the books too. Moiraine doesn't really participate in tower politics because she's too busy with her mission.
If I'm not wrong, other than in New Spring, Moiraine never even goes to the White Tower once, so yeah, certainly feels right for her to not feel at home there in the show
@@edwardaverros3028 yeah, I think you are correct. I don't think she's been back since NewSpring at all. She even meets with the procession of the Amyrlin Seat in the Borderlands.
17:30 I think you missed a good amount of symbolism here Daniel! Moiraine still has her boots on vs Alanna who is barefoot. It helps illustrate the line Moiraine said earlier in the episode about the "saddle being her home". Even in *her own room* in the Tower, Moiraine is still on guard. She does not feel *at home*.
You make an interesting point, I hadn't thought of it that way. But, is Alanna, who is clearly suspicious and on guard herself, so off of her guard here to warrant the juxtaposition? Are the bare feet the mark of a facade that makes Alanna seem more trusting than she is? Food for thought.
@@anthonysinicrope3091 Alanna is "Politically" on guard, most of the Aes-Sedai spend all of their time bickering or fulfilling their colour's purpose. The yellow are healers, they study healing and travel around healing people... just to highlight how evil that yellow's death was at the hands of the children of the light. The reds are basically butch lesbians XD they go around hunting men with the ability of channeling and have been gentling them without permission. The green prepare themselves for war with the trollocs, and are very much like the protagonists of reverse harem animes.... the Blue have missions pertaining to saving the world, basically they go around trying to stop wars etc.... and the rest are barely even important, other than joining in on the in fighting.... of which the green, red and blue are the main contenders. I'm only saying this much since it is background info the first book made obvious by this point... ahh and in case it wasn't obvious from the color of her dress, Moiraine is a Blue.
There's also how sparsely her room is decorated. She definitely is never in the Tower much (and New Spring readers will know why.) I expect this to be heavily contrasted against Verin's room later!
Regarding Logain's psychotic laugh... I'm honestly debating if that was all in Mat's head, because immediately after that, it goes back to Logain in the cage, and it doesn't even look like he moved. Then Mat brings up the "if it's one of us" deal. I think that was Mat's fear and paranoia from "reasons" poking at him.
Without giving anything away, I will say that Robert Jordan is the all time master of the unreliable narrator technique. Each chapter or section was written exclusively from one point of view, and many times you the reader know more than the narrator (if you're paying attention), and sometimes the narrator doesn't understand or even completely misunderstands a situation. Honestly it's one of the best parts of how the story is written. It will be very interesting to see how different cinematography tricks might be used to bring the same kind of storytelling technique to the screen since they can't do it the same way you do with words on a page.
@@bosyber and the Aes Sedai too. If the false dragon is doing that in front of at least half a dozen AS they would certainly look up to see what he was laughing at.
It made me think: in one month the hair would be longer than that and the amount of growth we saw isn't realistic. And so paradoxically it drew my attention to something I wouldn't have realised/thought about if they'd kept it the same. Not an issue at all- who cares right? But just seemed odd to me.
A lot of people have been complaining about Nynaeve not telling Moiraine Mat and Rand are there, but... this line addresses it. They think Mat can channel. Of course they're not about to show him to a bunch of aes sedai who will immediately gentle, capture, or kill him.
Also as someone who's a little bit of a natural mortician enthusiast (thanks ask a mortician!) odds are the graves are going to be shallow and open so that the bodies are eaten by wild animals or otherwise left to decompose. They wrapped the bodies in white linen and no preservation was done, so there's no need to dig deep into the ground. They are literally going to "return to the mother"
I was kind of expecting some kind of pyre at that point, precisely so that animals wouldn't eat the corpses. The obvious thing there would have been for Stepin to throw himself in the fire. Maybe that's a little too on the nose and that's why I'm not a writer in Hollywood. :)
@@torc7424 It would have been very visually pleasing but not great for character development! I'm not sure we would have cared about him if not given that time to see his grief. It also has real-world parallels that would have put the Aes Sedai in a kind of morally questionable position (in that it would be very immoral to encourage men to become warders if it was expected/normalised they kill themselves ritually if their Aes Sedai dies).
It took me a long, long time to forgive myself for not doing more. Thank you so much for sharing that. I know there is someone else watching this who knew exactly what Lan was going through. You did what you could, and I hope you've forgiven yourself and no longer blame yourself. Thank you for sharing that. It meant a lot to me.
Lan’s procession scene at the end had tears swelling. I think my favorite part about Lord of the Rings was the ability for men to be very empathetic, gentle, nurturing, etc. I see that quality with this show in droves. So many good male characters. Even though Lan is very stoic in nature, seeing his acting truly was amazing to watch. So much range. What I saw in the scene and ultimately what made me emotional was the parallel between the scene itself and what is referred to as “Men’s work”. One of the most profound experiences of my life was when I was going through some extremely dark places, and elected to take place in what is called a men’s circle ⭕️. During this process you are surrounded by other people (usually guys), who are there both to protect you and to support you. If you truly believe in the process, it can be very exhausting. As a member of the circle it is your job to be present and offer the central member any thing they need. Sometimes they need verbal encouragement, physical touch, silence, or movements (like beating of the chest in the show). The person in the center is shielded and uplifted to process anything that may be buried or lingering in their hearts or minds. In my circle, I sobbed for the first time in years, I screamed so much I gagged, and threw up all over the ground. But the moments that followed brought me peace I’d never known before. It was profoundly powerful, and this scene was just beautiful through and through.
During the funeral ceremony, the head Warder instructed Lan to "lay your hand on him. Relieve us of our grief," so I was wondering if maybe Lan's cry wasn't only the echo from Moraine, but also his role as part of the ceremony. Other note: rewatching episode 4, there was no blood on Mat's dagger. It wasn't you Mat!
Initially I didn't like Lan showing so much emotion, but I ended up thinking along these lines. Not only are the feelings reverberating back and forth between the bond, but also this is ceremonial. This is the time the stoic warders can "gnash their teeth and wail." And EVEN THEN, in this ceremony, they choose just one of them to do it for all of their stoic asses. One person to act out the catharsis for all of them. Totally new, not from the books, but I dig it.
Yes, it was ceremonial, a death wail. He was urged into it, and knew what it entailed. Maybe like 70% real emotion, 30% performance. The look he gives Moiraine seemed like 'is my hair ok? how many tears?' haha. In my culture, there are instances where you _hire_ wailers. Afterwards, they wipe their tears, eat your food, get paid and move on to the next funeral. But yeah, a little over the top, but nonreaders love it, and even I cried as Daniel Henney crying like a little boy broke me.
I thought this as well. Don’t believe it’s in the books but thought it was well done. Didn’t feel out of place and adds a mechanism to illustrate pain/feelings expressed through warder bond. But makes sense to me that a brotherhood of usually stoic warriors would designate a singular member to express their grief. I dunno why I’m typing so much when all I wanted to say was ‘I agree’.
"maybe I'm just projecting my own experiences" - Oh Daniel, that's what you're supposed to do. That's what art is for, to touch the deepest parts of us. I'm sorry for your experience with your friend, my condolences.
I am a 72 yr old non-book reader. You have become my guide to the series and it helps a good deal. I watched each episode cold as it became available. Then I get your interpretation and often re-watch the episodes again. I'm enjoying it a lot. Once you "get into" a story like this, you don't want it to end. This story has so much depth I feel we are all fortunate that it will play out over a long period of time. I have a friend, my age that has joined your subscription base and we are also comparing notes. I know that we are outliers in terms of your audience, but I do want to pass on that we are finding your reviews very accessible.
Predictions, only seen the show, never read the books: Egwene and Nynaeve - will just be channellers, your standard magic users. Mat - Seems like he could be a channeller but from what I've seen so far, feels like he's just infected/cursed by something. Maybe that shadow stuff from that city. Think once that gets cured, he'd be a normal dude Perrin - Some kind of werewolf or some sort of power where he can control/summon wolves. Doesn't seem to be magic that is channeled though, more of just a trait Rand - Nothing has really happened to him. He seems the most level-headed and intelligent of the bunch in terms of having a plan. So far he seems just like a normal mortal, which leads me to think he will be revealed as Mr. Dragon Lot of desk banging in this video, just sayin'
Maybe Loial understood it wrong when Rand was talking about a girl from Two Rivers. Loial says he recognized Nynaeve from her braid and Two Rivers customs and so on, but Rand was talking about Egwene.
Agreed. For starters, Rand described Egwene and not Nyneaeve to Loial since he at this point thinks she was killed by Trollocs, if he even described anyone at all. I thought Loial simply deduced she was the woman he was searching for because she isn't and Aes Sedai and she has the distinctive Two Rivers braid and Rand told him he was from there.
Yeah. I assume Loial saw the braid and just started talking about the two rivers and how he was just chatting with a two rivers lad and then Nyneave is like whatwhatwhat? And she insists on Loial bringing her to them.
I assumed Loial had prior knowledge of the two rivers which is where Rand mentioned he was from, as such when he saw a young women with a singular long braid he just put two and two together. Also as Daniel mentioned, it’s implied that conversations have happened in between scenes, so maybe Rand described the other party members or at least mentioned that there was more people from 2 rivers than just Egwene
You’ll probably not see this because you’ve already had 3.5 K comments, which on its own is incredibly impressive, but frankly I had never heard of the wheel of time until I started seeing some news about it on Amazon and then I did a little UA-cam search and up came your book reviews. Based on your recommendation I got the first book in the series and you’ve now influenced me to consume a large number of days of my time in reading these books and at the same time watching the series. That’s just a background to say I love the synopsis that you do of each episode. It really helps bridge the books from the series and helps me to understand the evolution of the characters, and what they are going through, and how they are being presented, and I think you’re doing an incredible job of describing that. I did think in your review of episode four that you were a bit harsh so I’m happy to see you there in episode five recognize that and here that, as a baseline, you love these books and that’s where you’re going from in the future. And your episode five review was, I thought, your best review, so thanks a lot. I don’t know yet if I’m ready to invest in all of the books and I have seen your ranking of the books and I know there comes a time when it’s a slog, but in any case the world he’s created is very entertaining and I think your assessment and synopsis and analysis makes it even better. So I really appreciate it. Cheers. - Mick Pegg.
You can watch and read at the same time but please take the show as an "adaptation". Personally I got through the first book and was like what is going on in the show. I agree with most things Daniel has said and whole heartedly agree that the actors are capturing the characters' essences (not sure my grammar is perfect there). The show has taken a different approach and I would definitely like a shot for shot of the books as with any reader but I understand the showrunners have to make each episode as compelling as they can.
@@duketip2010 they are not compelling they are stupid. My wife who has not read books, said it is boring and doesnt make sense. She has no feelings for any of the cast
Almost nothing in episode 5 takes place in the book , the suicidal warden isn’t in the books the entire sequence of event with the suicidal warden never takes place in the books , NONE of the kids are at the White Tower , Rand , Matt and Perrin are all supposed to be teenagers not 20 something, Rand and Egwene do not have a romantic relationship, Perrin was never married and never killed anyone he also carries a huge 2 Handed axe which he uses to fight with , he put down his smithing hammer to take up the axe to fight , Egwene , and Nynaeve don’t come to the White Tower until much later , Rand and Matt NEVER go to the city of the White Tower , Egwene and Perrin DONT save themselves they are rescued by another Wolf brother and Lan. THIS ENTIRE EPISODE AND SERIES IS RIDICULOUS FAN FICTION. The characters are all being misportrayed , there are new characters that don’t exist in the books and the sequence of events doesn’t represent what is in the books. This series is a dumpster fire of hot garbage, compared to the books. Robert Jordan must be rolling in his grave and his wife is a complete sell out.
Haven't read the books but I think this episode confirmed my suspicion that Rand is the dragon. Back in episode 3 he seemed to shock the darkfriend that he was able to break down the door (seemed to get some sort of power boost) and this episode seemed to hint that Rand isn't actually from the 2 rivers with Loial seemingly implying he didn't have 2 rivers features. Plus the fact that he said to Mat that he has seen that mountain outside of the white tower before (hinting at a past life?). IDK maybe they are intentionally trying to mislead but he gives be major fantasy protagonist vibes. Mat seems like he is possessed, maybe he could still be a channeler and what ever is influencing him want to use his power. Both Nynaeve and Egewne seem to be set up to be Aes Sedai. No real clue about Perrin. Obviously something to do with wolves (do werewolves exist in this universe)? Really excited to see the rest of the season, the weekly wait is tough, might have to give in and read the books!
I live for these predictions/analyses! I'm rereading the books for the first time in like 10 years, currently on book 4. I'll just submit a tiny warning that if you do pick up the books, they spoil the DR identity pretty early on. Like, they don't explicitly say it, but it's more heavily hinted such that you'd definitely figure it out within the first half of the book. If you're cool with that, though, by all means-it's a fun ride!
Maybe wait until season 1 is done before starting book 1. The books are much much better but a slower burn. They're also more detailed and you'll learn the mechanics of the world better. They are so worth the read but I'd recommend to wait till s1 is fully dropped due to the question of who the Dragon Reborn is.
@@johnblackham3552 lol basically the first scene of chapter one ruins most of the predictions I've seen in these comments... as does a re-watch of episode 2 XD they were warned quite clearly not to take anything out of the city!
I mean the show won’t be better than the books so if you want to have even more of what your already getting and seem to like read the books. Wait til s1 over though
A cool thing I've noticed: Every time Fain shows up you can hear a whistle in the background. It's the same whistle Fain does when he rolls into EF in episode one. If you rewatch certain episodes, this whistle shows up more often (Shadar Logoth for example, right after Mat and Perrin have their little heart to heart).
I really need to pay more attention because I have not noticed Fain or the whistle at all since episode 1 haha. I suppose it’ll give me something to rewatch the season for.
Logain's laugh is one of my favorite long setups in the books. He mentions something like 5 books later when he meets the Dragon Reborn "I remember looking up and seeing someone so powerful I knew they would break the world" and thats why he laughed maniacally.
Did anyone else notice Fain?? He's in the background whistling when Mat and Rand walk into the inn, and he's sitting in an alcove in several shots of the street from above. He's clearly been following our heroes.
My LOL moment is when I told my wife “ they are sitting real close to logain, id be crazy if one of em got hit by the veggies being thrown”... on scene later, red hit with a radish
I didn't notice this when I first watched the show, but now that you mention it, why did they sit so close to Logain? He's already gentled, he poses no threat.
Actually, Rand never describes Nynaeve to Loial, cause he didn't know she's alive and looking for them. He must've described Egwene and Loial, brought Nynaeve because of the braid.
It might be fresh in my mind, but I think Lolal said when he walked in the door that the reason, he brought Nynaeve was because Rand told him he was from the Two Rivers in the library and that he knows their tradition for the braids.
@@gabrielam2757 Egwene has been with Perrin, though, and Rand hadn't seen her since Shadar Logoth. Was her hair down when they held hands during that talk they had?
There were a lot of little details in this episode I really liked, but one is that Lan was the one to bury the king of Ghealdan. I know they haven't gotten into who Lan really is in the show (and I don't want to spoil anything for the non book readers even though it's not a hugely important detail for the show so far), but it was fitting that he would be the one to bury a king.
The first one who channeled was Egwane, then we saw Nyneave heal everyone so she'd be able to channel if she's trained. Mat is going crazy but the show suggests it's because of that dagger he picked up. Rand keeps having dreams but for now no channeling. Perrin is becoming a Stark (lol). The thing is, we keep hearing that no men should channel, because the One True Power will make them go insane, but isn't that a big reason to suspect that the Dragon Reborn will be a male? I mean, the two girls can become Aes Sedai (did I write it correctly?) but that does't necessarily mean one of them is the savior. Since they are female it would be an anticlimax, in my opinion. So that leaves the three boys... and following the fantasy worlds' cliches among them I would bet on Rand (good friend, only thinks of his girl, no interest in anything except doing what he thinks it's right, has a "normal" ability, resistant to change: Harry Potter, Jon Snow, Frodo Baggins, hmmm..... anyone else everybody?)
In response to your comment regarding the fact it must be a male, this is quite the liberal retelling and it is absolutely intended to give all 5 characters "equality". However, the rest of the TV series is making it pretty clear that there is the distinction between the two genders and their magic so this is easily one of the worst threads of this iteration of the pattern. That being said, at this point in the actual novel I swear I recall a line or two suggesting the girls as at the very least ALMOST possible. I have not come to the point in the series of books that identify who the Dragon Reborn actually is, though, but I genuinely believe (where I am in the novels, anyway) that it could be any of the 5. I always wanted it to be Nynaeve.
In the books, Rand has already channeled...but they cut that entire city out of the show, including one of the main characters. Granted, they WILL introduce that character later (they pretty much have to or smart people will riot) and the channeling was such a small thing that Rand didn't really even know what had happened. This whole show is some fan fiction nonsense, loosely based on some great books.
My understanding of Valda's "Aes Sedai can't lie" line was that it was mocking. Like "oh, you're not an Aes Sedai? That sure settles it. Because Aes Sedai can't lie. Yep. Nice try". Maybe I'm misremembering but that's the way I interpreted it in the moment. If I recall he said the reason he didn't believe Egwene was an Aes Sedai was that an Aes Sedai would have fought back more
I mean, that would certainly explain his "Yep, I believe that you aren't Aes'sedai, because they can't lie. Now channel for me or he dies" thing, if it was a straight faced mocking rather than taking on face value.
SPOILER*** We also have to take into consideration that it is possible that one of the Aes Sedai he caught could lie, which would inform his view of what he thinks of the three oaths.
Haven't read the books and here are my guesses. I think Rand is the dragon mainly because there isn't much else for him to do. Perrin has his whole wolf thing and Mat has the darkness thing. Egwene will become an Aes Sedai probably. Also I assume the dragon is going to be a man with the whole power corruption thing. I don't think Rand will become Egwenes warder because it looks like the show is seting up Rand - Egwene conflict and it would be too simple of a resolution. As for who can channel, Egwene obviously can, if Rand is the dragon he clearly can and I don't think Mat and Perrin but they will have some sort of magical powers.
"takes his Aes Sedai ring to a fire" - I totally saw that as not just "a fire" but as like a physical embodiment of the Flame of Tar Valon so like way more formal/important/meaningful
I seen it melt in and thought what if each ring is melted into the material that is keep hot and flowing that is then used to forge the rings of the next to rise to full Sister's
Cause yea ignore the fact that they send somebody who's depression is magically enhanced to a secluded spot with no walls to give up the only thing he has left of the person he was magically attached to. .........
I thought the set up for Loial finding Nynaeve was fairly on screen: -Loial meets Rand and is pretty shocked about him being from the two rivers -Loial tells Rand that ogiers have access to the tower gardens -Liandrin creepily directs Nynaeve to the persimmons in the garden My guess is that they met in the garden, Loial noticed her two rivers braid and it was basically a done deal from there for him to take her to them. However, what I can't decide is if Liandrin orchestrated this on purpose to make Nynaeve think Moiraine wasn't telling her they were in the city yet.
But in what world would Nyneave just listen to Liandrin, followed by just wandering off with an Ogier stranger? Like... I'm just a show watcher, but that doesn't sound like it fits her character AT ALL, and for it just to happen all off screen, it felt jarring.
Totally got the setup while watching but I feel the way it happened on screen was waaaay to abrupt: "I can access the gardens and look who I found" seemed to come out of nowhere even with the setup. It plays out to me like there's a brief scene missing that could have tied it together better.
The show is my first introduction to WoT and I'm really enjoying your takes without spoilers. Gotta say, I absolutely loved that final funeral scene, it was directed and acted perfectly imo. I'm a bit of an emotional masochist though, but getting that raw breaking emotion from Lan was crucial. Knowing his stoicism in character isn't an absence of emotion.. the character and actor both are really hitting it for me.
Melodramatically ripping your shirt and screaming at the sky is the opposite of stoicism. A perfect example of showing a stoic character having his emotions overwhelm his stoicism is Tommy Lee Jones in Lonesome Dove. Lan's outburst here is cringe inducing.
I took Valda "accepting" Egwene telling the truth as sarcasm. "Oh well there's our proof then, since Aes Sedai can't lie after all", that seemed sarcastic and he doesn't believe them.
It has to be sarcastic, otherwise it doesn't make sense. The only thing you need to do to identify an Aes Sedai in hiding would be to just ask 'Are you Aes Sedai, yes or no, if you don't say anything I'll take for granted that it is a yes'. There would be no way to half truth your way out of this. Then again somebody who stay silent could have another reason, but it's enough to warrant an arrest and interrogate them (in their eyes). But I would still find that hard to believe that they don't believe in the 3 oaths, knowing that they are hunting them ? Also is the Oath magical in nature ? She seem to imply that she can't physically break it when she spoke about it. Edit: By reading a wiki, yes the oaths are magical in nature, so they can't physically lie, except with an obvious sarcastic tone, but she would need to say something like 'of course I am not an Aes Sedai' while lifting her eyes to the sky and really mean it as sarcasm. *Small Spoiler follow* there are Aes Sedai who have break the spell and serve the dark one in disguise, maybe that's what they are looking for. So maybe they have encounter some of these member who could lie and took for granted that the Oath is just a myth after that encounter.
The small fireball was a distraction for her to use the power to burn Perrin's and her ropes. It goes back to the first or second episode where Moiraine tells her that her greatest weapon is her brain.
I loved the way "Valda" sold the WTAF moment with Perrin. He thinks he knows all of the demons but when he sees something "new" he totally wets himself which is something I loved from the books.
The Lan & Moraine facial acting grief feedback was *SO* freaking good, the way Moraine was shaking and twitching even before the tears was just perfect. The two of them deserve awards for that scene. Valda continues to steal every scene that he's in and is one of the most terrifying villain portrayals I've seen, and Loial was freaking adorable! I hate his hair, but his mannerisms and his speech patterns and the way his words have like... inertia, as he keeps talking after his words are irrelevant/nobody is listening, *really* sells the gentle giant.
Such a strong performance by both actors. But as well as feeling each other’s pain, both of them expressing the horror of what could very well happen if one of them dies & the other is left alive.
Love the review, just one remark. As far as I could tell, Logain's crazed look happened only in Mat's imagination (showing off his paranoia), Rand and the rest of the bystanders just saw Logain as a broken person leaning backwards in the cage.
I think the one scene that frustrated me the most was the Logain scene when they brought him into Tar Valon. In the books this was one of my favorite and more memorable scenes because he just exuded power in the books and stood tall and powerful even while being surrounded by Aes Sedai shielding him and Rand had a powerful reaction to seeing him and that always stuck with me for some reason. This is the excerpt from the book and doesn't contain any spoilers for the show: "With all of that, it was the man in the cage who caught and held Rand's eyes. He was not close enough to see Logain's face, as he had wanted to, but suddenly he thought he was as close as he cared for. The false Dragon was a tall man, with long, dark hair curling around his broad shoulders. He held himself upright against the sway of the wagon with one hand on the bars over his head. His clothes seemed ordinary, a cloak and coat and breeches that would not have caused comment in any farming village. But the way he wore them. The way he held himself. Logain was a king in every inch of him. The cage might as well not have been there. He held himself erect, head high, and looked over the crowd as if they had come to do him honor. And wherever his gaze swept, there the people fell silent, staring back in awe. When Logain's eyes left them, they screamed with redoubled fury as if to make up for their silence, but it made no difference in the way the man stood, or in the silence that passed along with him." I was really upset that they gentled him before reaching Tar Valon because they took this incredible example of power from him as a character. Felt like a missed opportunity, and I know it's a small thing to be jaded about, but it was just one of my favorite scene's in the book.
So I get why they did, and it seems reactionary to me. See, they wanted to give hints about who the Dragon is, so they had to rewrite some things as a result we don't get the Camelyn scenes with Rand, Matt, the Royals, and the Innkeeper (sorry trying to be vague) but it seems this scene was cut as a reaction to the writing they were doing to mask who the dragon is and not make it as transparent as it is in the books.
I think part of the reason they had events play out so that Logain was gentled before he got to the tower was so that we could have a scene showing off Nynaeve's potential as a chaneller, which, in the books, is something we're told about through exposition early on, but isn't really properly shown until much later on. The attempted Logain escape facilitated that, and with him killing one of the more experienced Aes Sedai in the party as part of the escape, it wouldn't make sense for them to not gentle him before moving on. I also do like that we still did get scenes of him showing off his power and his charisma before he was gentled
@@thepotato513 I totally agree and that is the point I was trying to make. Basically, they had to show us Nynaeve's power because they couldn't just tell us. So as a result of that they gentled Logain and as a reaction that changes the scene.
My biggest letdown of the episode was this scene. I was waiting with bated breath for some epic shot of a certain character locking eyes with the other. Pretty sad it didn't happen, tbh. Still enjoying the show but damn, they are changing or flat out not including some of the best scenes from the first book. All in the name of secrecy for the identity of the Dragon Reborn. The show still feels good, and the themes it is trying to accomplish are being accomplished. But there are probably 10 or so scenes ALREADY that gave so much charm to the first book that we will never see. Damn. On a positive note, Tar Valon looked AMAZING
Yeah good spot. If he believed the three oaths, he would know 100% she isn't Aes Sedai. They can kinda circumvent the oaths, but can't flat out say "I'm not an Aes Sedai."
@@Jagonath - and neither yet in her case…none of that can happen until she reaches the White Tower. She could have told him “I was supposed to become a ‘Wisdom’ in my town…but as we told you when we encountered you a month ago…our town was attacked in Two Rivers…just after we met you before, our group was attacked in the wilds and we were all scattered and separated…these people saved us, and we are traveling onward with these kind people to try and find them at Tar Valon - because that is where they wanted to go.” The truth would have probably worked…instead of fleeing into the woods and being caught.
@@ChicagoDB Hmm I don't know, I don't think Valda really cares about the truth. He isn't just looking for Aes Sedai as such, just "Dark Friends" which could be anyone (but especially Aes Sedai). Admitting to being a trainee "Wisdom" would have looked just as bad I think.
Just wanted to give a shout out to the actor who played Stepin, Peter Franzén. The way he's relaxed and funny in ep 4 and the way he is in ep 5, all those emotions of wanting to do his duty to bring back the ring, then asking Nynaeve for the goatstongue and his conversation with Lan. Well done, to that.
Agreed, stellar performance. Such raw emotion that is a pleasure to see, particularly in a man. He (the actor and Stepin himself) along with Daniel Henney (and Lan of course) just rose up my list of ideal men in a heartbeat.
A lot to love in this episode, but the arm linking was one of my favorite scenes. Its a great throw back to a story from the Breaking told in the books about the Aiel trying to stop a male Aes Sedai from destroying a city by linking arms and singing as he killed them all. That's one of the saddest stories in the books and really illustrates the courage of the Aiel from the Age of Legends.
Wait what? I've read all the books last year but don't remember that scene. Which book is it from? I thought the linking of arms was incredibly cheesy and pathetic. Knowing about the tinkers' backstory the scene you mentioned would absolutely redeem that scene from the show for me
That's how I viewed it as well. He was mocking the absurdity of the three other from his perspective. I think it gives him depth to show that he has interrogated a lot of aes sedai and been told everything under the sun which he just dismisses as witch lies basically.
He may have believed Egwene that she is not an Aes Sedai, but he did not believe that she cannot channel. As per his speech, anyone who can channel is a darkfriend. He likely suspected that she is going to Tar Valon to become an Aes Sedai. I mean why else would a farmer girl from the two rivers region travel by herself to Tar Valon. Also keep in mind, that they misrepresented to him who they were the first time they met, which means they had something to hide.
Yeah I think he didn’t believe her at all. Kinda like the satirical “witch test” in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. She’s guilty in his eyes no matter what he says, and he’s a sadist first and foremost. Not even remotely interested in truth or justice...so it fits in my mind.
And it also makes their parade and show of power that much more impressive in my opinion. Moiraine, Lan and Nynaeve were probably able to make it to the Tower much faster because the others were having a new cage discreetly brought out to them.
This comment contains MAJOR SPOILERS: The Tinkers linking arms was a reference to their ancestors linking arms against a crazed male channeler during The Breaking. One of the Aes Sedai mentions it in one of the Rhuidean visions. Tinkers have a history of linking arms and waiting to be slaughtered to give others a chance to escape.
Loved the episode for the progression of the series. Have read all the books multiple times so no spoiler discussion but the suicide stuff hit me pretty hard as well. My daughter attempted something last summer and thankfully I found her in time and healing has started for her but I felt so many emotions watching those scenes. That was the hardest day/ week of my life and I know the emotions I felt so can only imagine how I would feel if I hadn't found her in time. Daniel Henney's portrayal of that pain hit me really hard and then seeing you talk about it...man. I'm not a hugger or usually emotional but I wanted to give you a hug when you were talking about your experience.
I've come close to losing a loved one that way too...it is terrible. Much love for you, for your family, this can be very triggering and hard to watch I'm that instance. For what it's worth, a random stranger you'll never meet is here in solidarity with you and any pain your family may.continue to feel.
The Lan emotional 'breakdown' was ritual and traditional. The elder lead warder (well I assume he is a wader) even says to Lan "show us our pain". I think this element is missed by a lot of fans and I think is super important. This episode was interesting. The Perrin/Egwene part was really well done. The actor who plays the Light guy is so good at playing a bad guy. Kudos to him. The Rand/Mat part was interesting, lots of potential there. Loial was brilliant. When he was describing his arrival into the city and all the swords pointed at him and "I was about to get mad" was grin worthy. The Aes Sedai stuff was brilliant and enjoyable. The Lan stuff mighty potent. People were commenting about how 'its a waste to spend so much time on a random warder who is gone by the end anyway' and I couldn't be more in disagreement. While we watched him what we really focused on was Lan and Moraine and I think it was super potent and powerful. Oh, I hadn't realized the graves were for everyone. I'm glad that the Aes Sedai did that. That they buried with respect even those that fought against them. Tar Valon is pretty great. A lot less 'magical' then I was expecting but I think its okay.
Oh my gosh I'm so glad someone else noticed that about the ritual grief! That was absolutely my read too, but I'm an anthropology grad student so I wondered if maybe I had just misinterpreted the scene lol.
@@GannerRhysode did you even read the oc. It was ritual grief. He let his emotions flow while the others were stoic (or at least tried to be). Lan isn’t emotionless in the books, he just has control over his emotions. This is him letting the walls down.
The editing of that Loial scene was weird but I do appreciate them setting up the premise that Loial *actually listens* to people... and then sometimes just shows up with exactly the information/thing they need. Even though they pay him little mind elsewise.
Idk what it was about Loial's first scene but it was so awkward more than lovable. It wasn't the visuals more than the line delivery and the gestures. He just seemd like he was so obviously acting, almost stage acting. I was imagining more along the Ent type of vibe with just a sprinkling of corniness. But all the pointing and the line delivery felt out of place
Glad I am not the only one who found Loial's scene badly edited. It felt rushed. Not that I need to see everything on screen, but you can't show a character 2 minutes and then have it be fully part of the story having offscreen evolution.
Yeah, Loial was doing Loail things. Rand never explained what Egwene looked like, and he never even mentioned that Nynaeve existed. Loial just payed attention and went out and did stuff. He thinks Rand is an Aiel because of his hair, he is so convinced that he thinks it is interesting that Rand doesn't know he is one. We can assume this is because he read in a book once that Aiel have red hair. Same deal with Nynaeve, he just went out to see what was up with the garden at the white tower and saw a two rivers braid there and assumed this had to be Rand's friend. After all, absolutely no one else in the world braids their hair, it's just two rivers people, or so a book told him once.
@@azureskeith8643 There are a few nations in WoT who use braids, and they each use very distinct styles afaik. We don't know that yet though so it's kind of a moot point
@@jamesbeattie4268 Yeah, I was being kind of sarcastic. Obviously other people braid their hair, and we saw in the first episode that even two river's people braid their hair in different ways. It still makes sense that Loial would just see a braid and automatically assume that it is Rand's friend, but it is obviously just a writing convention to get them to meet back up.
I havent read the books so Im new to this show. My current theorie is: rand gotta be the dragon right? Nynaeve is a the healer every raid group need. Egwene is a battlemage prolly dishing out dps. Perrin is a beast that can control wolves basically a tank? En matt is the dark knight grieving the team
I wish they had Lan being completely stoic in the funeral procession and panning over to reveal Moraine crying her eyes out. There was such an opportunity there to show the depth of Lan's emotion through Moraine while retaining his stoicism.
That or just skip this subplot completely. They spent way too much time on it. I do, however, think your suggestion is monumentally better than what the writers of the show came up with.
I disagree. People who haven't read the books would just see Moiraine as sad and not connect the dots as well. This scene was meant to portray that bond to people who haven't read the books and help them understand it even more.
What I loved the most about episode 5 was how Rosamund Pike and Daniel Henney were able to communicate so much between Moiraine and Lan without saying a single word. Not once but twice in the episode.
I'm convinced that they could put Daniel Henney in a scene were he monologues to a stump and we'd all be saying 'you know, I'm seeing sparks with he and that stump'. Just overall all around excellent casting and acting
Not read the books but how come the white cloaks can just walk around outside the white tower city, and do whatever the fck they want just doesnt make much sense to me
@@oscarbennion42 Aes sedai can only kill shadowspawn because of their oath. And the white-cloaks are there just to taunt the Aes sedai, in the books they just provoke them because they know they can get clapped.
@@oscarbennion42 I’ve read the first 4 books and I still don’t really know how to answer you question. They are a very powerful religious organization so they can do what they want. Not a good answer but the only one I can see. This obviously leads to the follow up question, why are they so powerful? They are the children of the light (god) and since majority of the ppl believe in the light they have power.
@@oscarbennion42 the encounter happened further from the tower in the books, not within visible range by far. If I remember right. But for the show, they probably aren't close enough to be a big problem yet. Far enough away that the city won't notice wolves attacking and people screaming is my guess. Not sure though. Also in the books, we got to camelyn before tarvalon so 🤷♀️...
I haven't read the books yet. So far I had my opinion changed like 5 times, but currently I believe that Mat, Nynaeve and Egwene can channel and Perrin and Rand are something else, but special in their own way. Maybe Rand and Nynaeve will become warden & Aes Sedai and Egwene is the Dragon. That's what I think, at least until next week's episode. 😊
I've not read the books and my predictions are: Mat: probably can't channel but is currently cursed by the dagger thingy. Nynaeve and Egwene: both can channel, and they might become aes sedai. Perrin: he's probably like a warg from the game of thrones. Rand: he the only one who hasn't shown any magical ability, so he might actually be the dragon.
It’s so funny to me that show watchers actually get any kind off mystery on who the dragon is. In the books out of the 50 or so chapters the Dragons POV is like 45 of them
In the episode in the mining village where they meet Thom... Rand gets trapped inside a room that is a jail. The dark friend says something like "3 people couldnt get through that door." Rand knocks it down. He must have super human strength like Perrin?
My husband hasn’t read the books. And now there’s a bit of a joke where whenever there’s a new character, he asks if they are the Dragon 😂😂😂. I love how the show gives hints that readers would pick up on but it goes over the head of new fans. It’s interesting how much they hint it could be any of the two river folk!
I have two theories on why Lan "broke". One - it was part of the ceremony, like the speaker said "release us of our grief" or something to that tone, so it could be ritualistic. Two - because Moraine was crying and he could feel her emotions. And personally I think that she was not crying for Stepin but that she was crying for Lan, knowing that this is what would happen to him should she perish, and he sensed she was thinking of her own death and that's what brought him over. Especially with that scene earlier where she tells Alanna that she read somewhere that one can release a Warder. I have to say: I loved Loial! I was so afraid because of the pictures earlier, but the moment he opened his mouth all was forgotten and forgiven. I do wish he was taller, though, but that's all. Very minor spoiler: Loial thought Rand was an Aiel because of his hair, so clearly he had enough knowledge about Aiel (understandable, Loial is very knowledgeable), therefore it struck me as weird that he would think than an Aiel from Two Rivers is odd, instead of recognising that if Rand was, in fact, an Aiel, he would not carry, or even touch, a sword.
I have experienced several suicides, never found them, but they were close, and the feeling of failure is overwhelming. I think the show set up the perfect situation to show how strong and stoic Lan is by having him fail at saving someone close and having to experience it for all the other Warders present. So when they said, "relieve us of our grief," I felt like it was one Warder being able to show the pain while everyone else's job is to find the courage and keep it together.
Death is lighter than a feather after all. Lan was a poor choice canonically but they wanted to display Rosamund's acting chops. Some of the changes really piss me off, but I just have to calm down, realize the show is mainly for non-readers, and realize that this is an adaptation of the characters' NEXT life. It's not an adaptation of the scenes in the books. Some key phrases are the same which is important, especially if they ever reach Dumai's Wells. It's a great show... but it is its own story set in the WoT universe.
Except this was shallow and unearned as it was made up and contrived to elicit that specific response. This wasn't using something Jordan wrote and eloquently putting it out there, it is needlessly injecting the episode before it to create the situation that we see here, no different than giving Perrin a wife who only existed to be killed and create existential dread for him. So I cannot give them props for this scene because they contrived it.
Non-book reader thoughts Egwene: Aes Sedai who replaces the one that got killed in episode 4 Rand: Dragon Reborn Perrin: Special bloodline guy Matt: Warder to Nynaeve Nynaeve: Aes Sedai who replaces Moiraine since she'll be killed off
I'm guessing it's Rand: everyone else has done something magical so far other than the dreams they all had (both girls have channeled, Matt seems to have some kind of corruption he's dealing with since he picked up that knife, and Perrin has his whole wolf thing going on) which just leaves Rand to have something special happen to him
Even rand has had a magical moment! If you remember when the darkfriend bartender had Rand locked up in the shack, she told him the door was solid iron. No way he could make it through. After only 3 shoulder charges he knocked the door out of its hinges. Seems a little sketchy doesn't it?
@@jeremydyck5989 If you watch it again, look at her face. (I've watched every episode twice, and I recommend it, as there are a ton of little details you may miss on first viewing) She bout shat her pantaloons when he busted that door down. I don't think she was lying about the door. Sounds like an evil person move to lock their victim in a soundproof cabin outback w/ an iron door. And we've got Nynaeve healing a crowd of people and burning with the heat of 1000 suns, not to mention her temper. Very dragon-esque one might say. lol It's hard to tell who it is really.
I understood the scene when Lan screams in a different way. I see it as part of the cerimony. When the old guy says "Relieve us from our grief", Lan becomes responsible to show emotion for everybody in the room (and for himself, of course). Which explains why it is so over the top. So in that context, not being stoic is an act of respect and tradition.
Although it wasnt mentioned but also Perrin's confession about his wife was yet another powerful moment about grief. This whole episode got me emotional
I honestly found that part a bit uncompelling actually. I dunno. It feels like the acting just didn't really reach me. Then him looking just standing, mouth open, drool falling to the floor, grunting later on just made me dislike that entire scene.
@@philip7922 I can see why you would think this scene was unappealing, but he was being skinned by Valda sooo to me grunting was allowed. I did wanted more from his confession tho but was happy that it wasn't forgotten
Lan’s procession scene at the end had tears swelling. I think my favorite part about Lord of the Rings was the ability for men to be very empathetic, gentle, nurturing, etc. I see that quality with this show in droves. So many good male characters. Even though Lan is very stoic in nature, seeing his acting truly was amazing to watch. So much range. What I saw in the scene and ultimately what made me emotional was the parallel between the scene itself and what is referred to as “Men’s work”. One of the most profound experiences of my life was when I was going through some extremely dark places, and elected to take place in what is called a men’s circle ⭕️. During this process you are surrounded by other people (usually guys), who are there both to protect you and to support you. If you truly believe in the process, it can be very exhausting. As a member of the circle it is your job to be present and offer the central member any thing they need. Sometimes they need verbal encouragement, physical touch, silence, or movements (like beating of the chest in the show). The person in the center is shielded and uplifted to process anything that may be buried or lingering in their hearts or minds. In my circle, I sobbed for the first time in years, I screamed so much I gagged, and threw up all over the ground. But the moments that followed brought me peace I’d never known before. It was profoundly powerful, and this scene was just beautiful through and through.
I couldn’t get over the fact that Loial was not massively huge. I realize it would be hard to do throughout the series. It’s just a very specific part of the Ogier
I think we must assume that, in the show's version of WoT, it is just a very specific part of an Ogier that is massively huge, if you know what I mean.
Yeah, and same for the Trollocs honestly. Sometimes they are are protrayed as big, but many times, you can see that they are human-size. Just like Loial.
Haven't read the books and here's my impression so far: Egwene, Nynaeve and Mat can definitely channel; Perrin has some other powers that connects him to the wolves; Rand is either capable of channeling or he'll be revealed to have different powers. My strongest impression about who's the Dragon would be Nynaeve, but from the context and what I've picked up on the internet, I'm kinda sure that dragon has to be a man, so my next guess is Rand.
they twisted the prophecy for no obvious reason but even in the show they mention a required age range. that excludes 2 of the 5 already (at least one you can argue one age is changed for the show). makes the characters look really stupid.
"It's already over?" That was literally my reaction at the end. I thought it was a very strong episode. And yeah, I'm totally sold on Hammed's portrayal of Loial. Still a shame about the height, ears, and eyebrows. But upon reflection, making him significantly bigger might take away from where they're going with Perrin. Finally, I do think that Daniel Henney has done a great job with Lan's stoicism. And this one display of grief feels earned, especially under the circumstances. The ceremony also gave me minor Klingon death rite vibes. Perhaps a very small homage to Star Trek?
Budget and time might have had something to do with it. We might get lots of shots from below of Loial to make him appear taller :) That trick was used a lot with Gandalf in Hobbit company. Let's see if they do something with the ears in future episodes.
That Loial performance is just *chef's kiss* my delight in having an absolutely perfect actor for the role completely overshadowed how different I imagined Ogier would look. I already love him so much, it only took hearing his voice.
In this scenario, it was literally Lan's duty to the tradition to openly and loudly mourn the loss of their friend. They literally ask him to "relieve us of our grief". Lan is never one to shirk on his duties, and it was a VERY clever way to show us Lan in legitimate mourning without it actually breaking his very stoic character.
I like the story about Egwene being able to take unbelievable levels of pain, and not crying out. That's a character building moment right there. It's saying the Egwene can take a lot of punishment, and keep on ticking. I see what Lan did was part of a Ceremony. It was his job to channel the grief of everyone there, and he put everything he had into it. It was a sign of respect for the dead.
Yeah that's how I read it. Like one person I tasked to basically do a little song and dance, but with genuine feeling of just...shed the tears we want to shed and howl in the grief we all feel.
@@lukesdewhurst I didn't say she was experiencing that kind of pain during that seen. I was talking about the story where she was a little girl. That story says that Egwene can handle a lot of punishment. That ability is something she's really going to need with the future she has for herself.
Not remembering Egwene taking unbelievable level of pain.. at least physical in this episode. I would need to rewatch it. Totally agree with your take on Lan, which it's a different take from what Daniel said in the video. It justifies why Lan had that emotional feeling.. was not a natural breakdown... Was part of a ritual that he was able to exorcise his and everyone's pain. Warders have to be in control of their emotions so I see the logic of choosing the one warder more affected by grief and allow them for that moment to put down that wall. Great scene, very emotional heavy. I end up in tears. Just didn't like that much the "hulk" moment where in last gutural.scream he opens his shirt..meh.. . But just minor detail.
I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. I'm so sorry you lost someone that way and had to experience it so viscerally. My condolences to both you and your friend's devastated family. You're doing a great job with these deep dives, by the way. They are both entertaining and informative, and I find myself looking forward to seeing them after I watch the episode.
I took the line where Valda says "because Asedai can't lie" more like in a way as if he were saying it with air quotes as if to say he doesn't believe that. - these episodes have me really wanting to read the books
You should. The books are significantly better. The show has already contradicted itself at points, let alone the loads of foreshadowing that Robert Jordan constantly uses that just isn't done by the show. For me actually, as much as I enjoyed the series the first time, reading it the second time (prompted by the show) has actually been an even better experience. Noticing what I missed, seeing how early some signs were showing up.
There is an alternate theory that I subscribe too. That he didn't want to engage with a prepared Aes Sedai, an obvious warder, and whatever her traveling companians where with a small detachment, including a commander with men whom where not Questioners and that he may not have been able to trust fully. So he didn't ask her directly in that scene as he was biding his time. He probably knows the 3 oaths hold true imo.
@@lordAvatar Thats a good point. It seems like something a sicko like him would test. Like hold up a yellow handkerchief and torture them unless they say its blue.
For me, I adhere to the theory that it was indeed sarcasm when he said that, but I had to check if the oath was magical in nature or not. It is indeed magical in nature and Aes Sedai cannot physically lie. That being said, by looking into a wiki page on the wheel of time about the oath, I've been spoiled some information that could explain why he still doesn't believe an Aes Sedai is not bounded to the truth. I haven't read the book, so please don't spoil me further lol (Although I don't really mind the information I got, but other could). *Spoiler ahead* We already know that Aes Sedai can speak in half truth. They can also lie by using obvious sarcasm, like saying 'Of course I am not an Aes Sedai' while lifting their eye to the ceiling. That being said, they could know that and just ask point blank : Are you Aes Sedai, yes or no, silence mean yes, and you must speak in a neutral tone. This is where the spoiler start, so stop reading now if you don't want to know what might be reveal in the show later. So here it is, the dark one have infiltrated the Aes Sedai and some of them are spy working for him. They have a way to break the oath so that they can lie while the other cannot. It is probable that at some point the white cloak have arested one of these spy and , noticing that she could lie, took for granted that the oath is just a myth circulated by the White Tower.
as a non-book reader, these are my predictions: Nynaeve - as much as she's against it, i do highly believe that she'll become a trainee/novice and then graduate in to becoming a Aes Sedai + she'll have a forbidden relationship with Lan. Egwene - she'll 100% become an Aes Sedai and become one of the strongest channelers in the world + she seems very wise/ambitious and considering how fast she learned, i believe she'll become a high-ranked Aes Sedai. Her romance with Rand will continue. Rand - he's the Dragon Reborn! he's being portrayed as this "good boy" and his aura is very "main character"-ish and its usually characters like him that have some kind of plot twist to them, that's why i think Rand is the Dragon. besides that, i believe that Rand will marry Egwene and become her Warder (but idk if a character is allowed to be a Dragon while being a Warder at the same time...?) Perrin - i'm sensing that he'll transform into an alpha/leader over a wolf-pack (the Teen Wolf-effect) Mat - he's cursed by the dagger but he'll get well soon when somebody destroys the dagger and cures him. but aside from that, i don't think he has any powers. honestly, i've no clue where his character is heading but i suspect that he'll be the type to put others happiness/safety first over his own.
Honestly, you may not read this, but damn this warms my heart knowing the heart and soul of the books is there and people, like yourself, are picking up on the leads/foreshadowing. Hope you continue to enjoy!
You are certain you haven't read the books :P Only last point is wrong in a way. Mat has (from the start) "the power of luck", but they haven't really showed that in the show
I had a best friend kill himself and I was also the first one finding my dear-friend dead from that act. This episode insanely rang that memory within me, and I felt that loss from this episode that cant be said in words. I will never say to anyone, "I know what you feel", because pain is relative, but I can say, "I can only imagine what you feel, even if its a whisper of it"... Seeing Lan suffering that he couldn't do more to save his friend, speaks to my heart of hearts. Yet, he will strive to fight on. Thank you for this video. Cheers.
Nice vid. Surprised you didn't mention the symbolism of Egween's braid being undone / brushed out by the Whitecloaks. Can't wait for next episode--WoT is fantastic!
We had her first braid tug in the trolloc pool (it was a "I whip my hair back" but I'm counting it), and after Lan walks out she she and Moiranne are taking... we get our first "folded her arms under her bosom in frustration".
I also noticed some dress smoothing when Nyneave is talking to Rand in the inn and she sits down next to him! Honestly im disappointed more people haven't seen this and mentioned it.
As a non-book reader, I got a feeling that the entire party will be able to use the One Power one way or the other, as is shown with Perrin getting frickin' wolf eyes this episode; and I get strong main character feels from Rand so my guess for the Dragon Reborn is him. Also, on the beginning of the episode I was pretty sure that Stepin was gonna kill himself but as it went on it felt more and more like he'd become Nynaeve's warder, so it kind of caught me by surprise when he went through with it. Awesome videos btw! :)
@Dusty Lee Sledge no there one. The feel what eachuther feel. The good the bad the steamy and the ugly. Different color sisters have different relationships with there warders. Greens are the most likely to get intimate, even with multiple warders lol. There is alot of things to come. But it's a big big big continent and shit gets real quick. Lol
I went through the same thing finding my cousin in a very similar state and it hurts to know someone that has been my escape from grief has felt that trauma. I felt everything about that in this episode through Lan and I feel like the raw emotions, guilt, etc. were captured perfectly. The performances in this show have been so good that, as a book reader, I damn near give every change a pass because the essence of each character is ever present. Love you man
Daniel, thanks for talking about the personal pain you experienced in regard to episode 5. It hit me like a train, and even though it was noncanon, it summed up a lot of what I love about wot. The series saved my life in ways and having it on screen has been indescribably emotional for me.
so here are my thoughts as non-book reader: -Nynaeve is probably the most interesting character for me right now. Her whole involvement with Lan is really compelling. I know how they talked about her having feelings for him but honestly I was really getting siblings vibes so idk. -I feel like Rand is the Dragon Reborn just because so far the special stuff he has done has been really subtle, unlike the rest of the group (I feel like it subverts expectations for the person you expect least to have the power). I don't know if this is true but I thought that the Dragon Reborn was able to channel without going mad (Moraine said something to the guy in the box about not being the Dragon because the voices he heard were madness or something), Rand seems slightly more sane than the others at this point. If he were just any other man who could chanel he would be hearing voices and slowly losing it. Also he remembered the mountain so maybe he has some memory from his past life (I know you can't because it's a new start every turn of the wheel, but maybe it is different for the Dragon Reborn) -Egwene could be the Dragon Reborn, but I'm confused about how people tell if a woman is just a powerful Aes Sedai or the Dragon Reborn. -There's something going on with Perrin, especially with the wolves, he seems to be a protector sort so maybe his magic will have something to do with saving people (especially since he didn't save his wife). I also thought about him becoming a warder but it's too soon to tell. -I don't think Mat is a channeller I just think he is cursed with some dark magic in the knife. Maybe it has something to do with the creature with flaming eyes that they kept dreaming about. When he took the knife he tied the creature to himself? It could be manipulating him to enact the horrible deems that it wants, so my bets are on the fact that he actually killed the little girl and her family.
Every male channeller is doomed to go mad and suffer a terrible death, because of the Taint of Saidin (the male part of the One Power). No exceptions, Dragon or not.
Yeah it's a major criticism of the show that the Dragon can be female, as that removes the dread of a powerful male channeler from the mythos. Interesting takes though!
@@rogown2 I used to agree with this but then I read Rafe's answer to this question in his Reddit AMA. He basically said that people, especially Aes Sedai, and most especially Moiraine, just don't completely trust 3000 year old prophecies. WHat if the White Tower prepares only for TDR to be male, and suddenly it turns out that the prophecies were wrong and TDR was female? Generally accepted philosophy is that the Wheel spins out souls with the same gender, but is it really ok to leave something that important to chance? WHat if the philosophers are wrong about it? Unreliable narrator is a common theme in the books. ("I'M NOT SCREAMING", screamed Nynaeve). So this is just something the showmakers have put down to people being a little more wary than in the books
I loved this episode. It made me start to really feel for these characters in a way that I hadn't before. Perrin admitting to Egwene how he'd killed his wife was pretty well done and powerful. Great character moments and I was genuinely heartbroken at the end. Also, thanks for sharing your own traumatic experience here. I'm so sorry you had to go through that but being willing enough to be vulnerable and sharing is important. Well done.
i have read the books so ill share my GF's theories so far since she hasnt she's currently 50/50 on it being Mat or Rand (Mat due to the stuff going on and Rand cause he stands out from the rest of the Two Rivers folk) she thinks if Nyneave becomes an Aes Sedai she will join the yellows (we've discussed the colors of the Ajah from an overview) and uh she is 1000% sure its not Perrin but she really wants to know what the hell is going on with him (i also hope we get the missing character for Perrin's story as well but im not holding my breath)
also i loved Loial. like as soon as he was on screen and talking, it hit me just right to where i actually started stimming a bit out just sheer joy as Loial is one of my favorite characters. and the ending scene really broke my gf a bit. all of the grief stuff was handle superbly and i loved the respect the Aes Sedai showed to all of the fallen
And nothing about Egwene, because, well, let's admit it, she's very forgettable. Also, the actress is not on par with the rest of the cast. (She's not really good. I can't unsee her pooping- when she tries to channel).
Regarding Lan’s expression of emotion during funeral seen, Lan is the designated mourner in the ritual so he is expected to express the emotions of everyone in attendance. This is discussed in the behind the scenes featurette for the episode.
Interesting. I took it as he was expected to express all his mourning at the funeral, so he could Ramon clear headed and stoic from then on. I took it as an expectation of wards, not just his character.
Also it works on a different level since he suspected perrin of being a warder ,so if he tortured perrin , it would affect egwene also ,on the off chance .
I've never heard of this series until a few weeks ago: My prediction atm is that no single one of the 5 is the dragon reborn, but all 5 have individual abilities that when put with the others, make up the power of the dragon. So far there has been teases for each of them being more than they thought. Nynaeve in episode 4, Rand with the door, Perrin with the wolves, Egwene with the channelling and Mat with the channelling teases (but that could be that freaky dagger he picked up could be the source). These predictions feel so far off, but every episode my dragon prediction has changed, until at the end of ep5 it hit me that it could be all of them! I have no clue where this story is going and I love how unexpected it's all been so far and I assume that my prediction will've completely shifted next week. Bring it on! Edit: I only just posted the comment but I just remembered that I think Mat could make a good warder... Maybe his ability is some sort of protection? We've seen how protective he is over his sisters during the attack in episode 1, so I'm now wondering if that was foreshadowing.
The tinkers locking arms were a direct throw back to the daishan aiel linking arms to try to calm a mad aes sedai in the age of legends (book 4 i think). I also spotted the inconsistency with the whitecloaks. The actor playing loial was absolutely perfect. Overall i enjoyed the episode but preferred E4. Oh i prefer the warders being human.
I think we only see the whitecloaks as inconsistent because we knew moiraine was an aeis sedai when they met. In reality I think it would be kind of silly if whitecloaks stopped every woman they met and asked them if they were an aeis sedai. And it would probably make them rather unpopular and they obviously care about their image, I mean look at those haircuts! And the mustaches! Impeccable!
@@piotrbrys8008 yup, to me it shows that the showrunner really cares about these little details (such as the courage of the dai'shan aiel) - loved logain maniacally laughing when he saw 'a taveren who will shake the world' as well.
I did like Loial's humour. "An Aielman from the Two Rivers who doesn't know he's an Aielman." Minor spoilers: Overall the show is doing a pretty good job of foreshadowing .
I think the false dragon is back in the cage (and has two Aes Sedai behind him) because the Tower is pretending they didn't gentle and are going to hold the full trial.
I would agree except if they pretend they didn't gentle him, they'd have to do a whole lot more than a cage, especially if they want to keep up the idea that he's powerful enough to potentially break the world.
@@neiana we see warders around him and Aes Sedai behind him in the same position as when we first meet the procession in episode 3. It seemed clear to me that they are trying to pretend like he is still a threat
@@neiana Honestly, that's why they are now calling him a FALSE dragon. they want to relay to the people that the dragon isn't back, so people won't worry. after all, once the dragon is back, the break of the world could happen again.
I really appreciate that you try so hard to not giving spoilers from the book. I just started the book as well as finished season 1, your commentary is perfect for people like me
"Tell me again rand" was another good writing example of presenting how things have been going without showing it. Loial totally copied micheal Kramer and I couldn't be happier. Most accurate book portrayal yet, despite the so so costume. Absolutely agree with everything you said, your preferences and opinions line up with mine exactly.
@@tom4115 Because upping his size would mean applying CG to him on a lot of shots which would then necessitate cutting him from a lot of scenes. Same reason he doesn't have super emotive ears and why Game of Thrones basically cut out the direwolves.. So they went with a really big guy. He's a young Ogier, others that only have to appear for a scene or two can be made bigger.
@@robbybevard8034 there are so many short actors playing tall characters it really isn't hard. tom hardy played Bane is one example, Loial isn't even a main character. and if they were too lazy to even use simple camera tricks at the very least get an actually big person to play the role. A human sized Loial is so dumb. Imagine this guy going with Gaul to shut the waygate lol and carrying Gaul back. Unless Gaul in the show is a hobbit that aint happening. I guess they've ruined every other character why NOT make Gaul a hobbit.
I haven’t read the books or have anything spoiler. My current theory is I’m stuck between NyNeave or Egwyne being the dragon. At first I thought Rand was after the door smash but Loial going on about him being the red haired people in Two Rivers I was like “oh ok yup Rands dad was definitely a badass warrior, are Rand and Egwyne gonna become an Aes Sedai Warder team and NyNeave is the dragon???” Then Perrin for me is just giving me everything I wish Jacob black would have.
I think there should power balance in the magic world. Considering All channelers are women and men channeler goes mad after challenging. I think Dragon reborn can channel without going mad, and people are afraid Dragon reborn going mad. so I think it will be men not women.
I thought Daniel said in the first episode review they don’t know and it could either be a man or a woman? If going on the assumption it has to be a man I’d say they’re pushing hard in the show for me to think it’s Matt but nahh he’s a mess but I don’t think the Dragon, but from what I’ve seen so far I think it’s going to be very much a “road to hell paved with good intentions” scenario for whoever it is. ETA: if Nynaeve isn’t the dragon I’d put money down the road she’s running one of the colours or ends up on the Amyrlin Seat.
Look. Loial is 90% true to character. And it isn't the hair. I could take the hair. It's the Ogier being head to head on horseback characters, and their.. uh... expressive ears. Those are the biggest issues I have with the character. But his... his Ogier style talking style, his character, I fucking LOVE that. He was so perfect as Loial
@@tyrvinodinson9790 I really imagine them as a somewhat more serous version ofJohn Bauer's trolls - big nose, big ears, massive but generally friendly;
I wasn't too thrilled about Loial's costuming at first either, but as soon as Hammed started speaking as him I did tear up, because yeah, that's 100% Loial!! His voice reminded me so much of the audiobooks and Hammed's performance is just so charming and wonderful... I love him...
I never listened to the audiobooks and i wasn't thrilled with the costuming either, but when he started talking i loved it. My first thought was that this is how i always inagined Loial, huge and super nice to everyone
Honestly, its just the hair. It just looks like it's glued on his head, and hides his ears, which are so imporatnt to show his emotions in the book. However. the actor got EVERYTHING right about him
When I first read Eye of the World, my friend told me that I had to pay attention to every detail because EVERYTHING IS SET UP! Something l really appreciate about this series is their way to use the camera and cinematography to foreshadow and set up certain big plot points. Like Rand just looking at the Karaethon cycle or Padan Fain lurking in the crowd in a wide shot without calling too much attention to it. It seems like Rafe and co. are using cinematography to pay homage to Mr. Jordan's "small and seemingly insignificant things are actually set up for huge things" writing technique. I am really here for it.
Also Lan's conversation with Stepin as they're looking into a MIRROR and discussing a warder's bond with their Aes Sedai. I won't be more specific than that to avoid spoilers. But I said to my wife "OOOoooooh. I love that, but you won't understand why for another few seasons."
How can you possibly get that??? They have gotten so many details just flat out wrong, from minor to major. Example 1: in the great hunt Nyneave is musing on how Lan is an excellent woodsman and tracker, and while she herself was trained well there was no chance she could ever sneak up on him. Example 2: it takes more power to break a shield then to hold it, and Logain is FAR more powerful than Nyneave. Example 3: Thom is described as having a rich voice and a broad mustache. Example 4: All the Aes Sedai are said to have Ageless faces. Instead they all look like grumpy spinsters. Example 5: Saidar and Saidin are bound to the soul, not the body. It is not men who corrupt Saidin it is Saidin that corrupts men. Even the most bitter reds know this. Example 6: Lan is stoic and austere, and he is unbelievably competent. He would not cry. In fact, Nyneave’s quest to overcome her own fear and anger mirrors his acceptance of hope and love from her. He would NEVER have an outward display of any emotion that wasn’t either love towards Nyneave or rage towards his enemies.
And the Elves of Lothorien never went to Helms Deep, the Hobbits were not given their Barrow Blades by Strider at Weathertop, Faramir was never tempted by the Ring, Aragorn never doubted himself to be King of Gondor, Saruman wasn't stabbed in the back to death by Wormtongue, Aragorn was not given Anduril right before the Paths of the Dead. Film adaptions get details wrong all the time. But for me they still get the vibe and style good enough. I feel the WoT show gets the vibe and style down enough to make me happy.
@@Finnergans Yes, they get details wrong... but the WOT show has gotten details wrong, characters wrong, major plot points wrong, etc. There's a limit. A few slip ups here or there or necessary changes are fine, just look at the first few seasons of GoT... but WoT is just totally off base at this point.
Fair enough I guess. I still like it tho. You know what would be sick? Having the full cast make WoT audiobooks like a radio drama with music, sound effects, the whole bit. That way the story is full Jordan, but with the big production budget! I'd buy that.
Love the dedication Daniel! Can always count on you even after having those surgeries hope you’re feeling ok 👍🏼 and don’t force criticism if you’re not feeling it, fell in love with this channel for your honest opinions ♥️✊🏼
I enjoyed the comments matching the themes of the episode, no need to apologize for it being dark. I really appreciated you being vulnerable with your real life experiences. With the smart writing choices and the brilliant acting this was my favorite episode so far; the whole series is building. I love it!
Also, Daniel, While rand didn't describe nynaeve to loial, he said this: I'm from the two rivers, I had a female friend who I lost. because remember, in the show, they think she's straight up dead from Winter's Night. Loial, being the big smart bean that he is, saw the Two river braid on this young woman, and he was like, "HUH. Must be Rand's friend! come!" because Loial is just so damned wholesome.
That's a good point but a few more lines of dialog would have made this a lot clearer. While the braids are so important in the Two Rivers, I'm not sure about knowing that a particular braid would have to be from that area as opposed to anywhere else. Although Loial did have a lot to say about Rand's hair, so maybe there's more to it. Gotta say his hair bothers me, though. It's the only thing on the show so far that's taken me out of the moment by how artificial it looked.
I believe Rand actually told Loial about Egwene but he found Nynaeve instead. Rand would have no reason to talk about Nynaeve and he was actually searching for Egwene.
I agree, but I also wondered if Loial is a part of Moiraine’s eyes and ears watching for them.
Yes. If you listen Loial even talks in the background about a braid being significant for women in the Two Rivers. I took it as Loial figured out that Rand's friend must have a braid and came across Nynaeve and was like "look, I found one!" and brought her to Rand. I do think that there should've been a little scene connecting them, though, as this part was very confusing to a lot of people.
It really feels like there was a scene cut of Loial and Nynaeve meeting in the gardens or Library. Liandrin gives directions and then it cuts away.
I've read the books but my mom didn't and her predictions are: Rand: gonna be a warder.
Mat: can channel and is the dragon.
Nynaeve/Egwene: going to be aes sedai.
Perrin: clueless but thinks he is going to be a tinker.
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.Rand prediction. . .technically not wrong.
@@armanisar-feinial1789 *laughs*
I'm in the same situation and I'm enjoying they're predictions.
The way this is going, your mom’s predictions might actually be right in the end lol
My mom says Rand is the dragon because he stands out from everyone else lol.
Completely new to this story. My predictions: Egwene is just a run of the mill channeler. Nynaeve is a powerful sorceress but not the Dragon. Mat isnt a channeler or going mad, he is just cursed from the dagger and he will go back to normal when someone destroys the dagger or takes it away from him. Perrin is a werewolf. Rand having not shown any magic yet must be the Dragon.
Pretty interesting take.
@@h.walker1332 interesting?
@@merc9nine Well I've read the books so I do t really want to say anything but that.
YOu're right in some things, dead wrong in others.
I love this
My predictions/thoughts for characters as someone who hasn't read the books:
- Rand is the dragon reborn, he has the fire aesthetic with the red hair and he gives off stereotypical chosen one vibes with things like him and his dad having some separation with the rest of the two rivers and his different ancestry.
- Mat is either a summoner going mad because he's male or him being in contact with the dark one in his sleep and being potentially threatened with his sisters' deaths, I heard the term dream walker at some point so maybe he's that like the dark one.
- Perrin is a werewolf also self-sacrificing because of his guilt.
- Egwene is just a summoner who could become a novice if given the opportunity but maybe she'll stay loyal to the others, she chose becoming a wisdom over Rand so who knows.
- Moiraine is obviously hidding something, she's not evil, maybe she'll be misguided/doing what she thinks is right which conflicts with the good guys or the show will reveal something big that we've been missing that will put it into perspective.
- Lan is just cool and I ship him and Nynaeve which may lead me to become an emotional wreck later down the line.
- Nynaeve could possibly be the dragon reborn with the power she holds but I don't think she was in the list of potential dragon reborns.
If anyone of these characters dies I will be distraught. This show has been very good at making me emotionally attached which is reflected in how the last episode affected me which is to say it's made me cry.
I'm liking where your head is at. Watch and find out! Everything is subject to change with Rafe at the helm, too. So it's not like any of us truly knows what will happen
The ailemen is a whooooole other thing lol enjoy !
I think you mean Channeler not Summoner.
As someone who has read the books I really love your point of view and would be interested in hearing more as the show progresses!
Also someone who hasn't read the books and I'm in agreement of everything that you've predicted
As a non-book reader, these are my predictions regarding the roles of the characters from the Two Rivers:
- Nynaeve : Will be a Novice, but probably will decide she didn't want to be an Aes Sedai along the way
- Egwene : Aes Sedai or possibly The Dragon Reborn. She learned to channel almost immediately
- Rand : A Warder, very probably Egwene's. I think his hinted lineage and strength points to that direction strongly
- Perrin : Probably a Warder too or continuing to be a blacksmith. So far he is the hardest to read
- Mat : He's my pick as the male channeler in the group, since he seems like he can withstand whatever it is inside the knife he picked up
Thx for the insight into your perspective. As a long time book reader, seeing people like you enjoy the story/make your own predictions takes me back to my youth when I would debate this with friends in our garage.
@@prometheus3498 there was a mystery in the books? Not really
Its really interesting learning what people that haven't read the books predict about the show.
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All your predictions are wrong. So you can make new predictions :D
I believe that they are all channellers
@@merc9nine Not "a mystery" but several. Like who killed X in that pantry in Camlyn?
I actually think the boots on the bed was a choice. There's a scene earlier where Lan says something to Moiraine about them coming home to Tar Valon and she says that T.V. isn't home for her. Her home is "this saddle" and "these boots" and a few other things. I think they were showing that Moiraine isn't really at home in the tower, and that she's more comfortable when she's ready for action and ready to be on the move, trying to accomplish her goals out in the world. It's a contrast that exists in the books too. Moiraine doesn't really participate in tower politics because she's too busy with her mission.
Boots on the bed means we're just talking, no funny business.
If I'm not wrong, other than in New Spring, Moiraine never even goes to the White Tower once, so yeah, certainly feels right for her to not feel at home there in the show
@@edwardaverros3028 yeah, I think you are correct. I don't think she's been back since NewSpring at all. She even meets with the procession of the Amyrlin Seat in the Borderlands.
Nah i think she was back a couple times in the 20 years in between but never stay for long and doesnt rly come for years at a time
This! And also she had one of those foot-of-the-bed covers like in hotels. That’s what they’re for.
17:30 I think you missed a good amount of symbolism here Daniel!
Moiraine still has her boots on vs Alanna who is barefoot. It helps illustrate the line Moiraine said earlier in the episode about the "saddle being her home".
Even in *her own room* in the Tower, Moiraine is still on guard. She does not feel *at home*.
You make an interesting point, I hadn't thought of it that way. But, is Alanna, who is clearly suspicious and on guard herself, so off of her guard here to warrant the juxtaposition? Are the bare feet the mark of a facade that makes Alanna seem more trusting than she is?
Food for thought.
I felt like it symbolized that Moraine is not tied to the tower and is destined to leave again and at any minute notice
In his defense, he was on Percocet at the time, and even if it's symbolic, she could still symbolically keep her damn boots off the bed.
@@anthonysinicrope3091 Alanna is "Politically" on guard, most of the Aes-Sedai spend all of their time bickering or fulfilling their colour's purpose. The yellow are healers, they study healing and travel around healing people... just to highlight how evil that yellow's death was at the hands of the children of the light. The reds are basically butch lesbians XD they go around hunting men with the ability of channeling and have been gentling them without permission. The green prepare themselves for war with the trollocs, and are very much like the protagonists of reverse harem animes.... the Blue have missions pertaining to saving the world, basically they go around trying to stop wars etc.... and the rest are barely even important, other than joining in on the in fighting.... of which the green, red and blue are the main contenders.
I'm only saying this much since it is background info the first book made obvious by this point... ahh and in case it wasn't obvious from the color of her dress, Moiraine is a Blue.
There's also how sparsely her room is decorated. She definitely is never in the Tower much (and New Spring readers will know why.)
I expect this to be heavily contrasted against Verin's room later!
Regarding Logain's psychotic laugh... I'm honestly debating if that was all in Mat's head, because immediately after that, it goes back to Logain in the cage, and it doesn't even look like he moved. Then Mat brings up the "if it's one of us" deal. I think that was Mat's fear and paranoia from "reasons" poking at him.
Without giving anything away, I will say that Robert Jordan is the all time master of the unreliable narrator technique. Each chapter or section was written exclusively from one point of view, and many times you the reader know more than the narrator (if you're paying attention), and sometimes the narrator doesn't understand or even completely misunderstands a situation. Honestly it's one of the best parts of how the story is written. It will be very interesting to see how different cinematography tricks might be used to bring the same kind of storytelling technique to the screen since they can't do it the same way you do with words on a page.
You nailed it! Definitely a vision based on the next shot of him not looking up in the same position he was in.
Yeah indeed, especially with how Rand (didn't) react to that bit but to what Mat said after
@@bosyber and the Aes Sedai too. If the false dragon is doing that in front of at least half a dozen AS they would certainly look up to see what he was laughing at.
Yes. And Immediately after the laugh rand was saying Matt’s name As if trying to snap them out of a trance.
A small detail I liked was how Rand and Perrin's hair are noticeably longer when it jumps to one month later.
Yeah and Perrin's is styled similar to Aram's (but shorter).
I noticed that too!!!
It made me think: in one month the hair would be longer than that and the amount of growth we saw isn't realistic. And so paradoxically it drew my attention to something I wouldn't have realised/thought about if they'd kept it the same. Not an issue at all- who cares right? But just seemed odd to me.
I noticed that as well, a small but very important detail as it makes the world feel lived in.
So glad their hair is longer. In the book, their hair is ALWAYS described as being shaggy!!
My favorite line in this episode:
“ we’re Two rivers folk, we don’t need their help”
Felt right out of the books.
At least something did then
A lot of people have been complaining about Nynaeve not telling Moiraine Mat and Rand are there, but... this line addresses it. They think Mat can channel. Of course they're not about to show him to a bunch of aes sedai who will immediately gentle, capture, or kill him.
This shownis dumb. She cant heal at this time
My favorite scene was Lan rubbing his nipples and screaming
@@quaroftheka1008 lol,
Also as someone who's a little bit of a natural mortician enthusiast (thanks ask a mortician!) odds are the graves are going to be shallow and open so that the bodies are eaten by wild animals or otherwise left to decompose. They wrapped the bodies in white linen and no preservation was done, so there's no need to dig deep into the ground. They are literally going to "return to the mother"
Oh a sky burial!! That makes sense!
The last embrace of the mother welcomes you home
I was kind of expecting some kind of pyre at that point, precisely so that animals wouldn't eat the corpses. The obvious thing there would have been for Stepin to throw himself in the fire. Maybe that's a little too on the nose and that's why I'm not a writer in Hollywood. :)
@@torc7424 It would have been very visually pleasing but not great for character development! I'm not sure we would have cared about him if not given that time to see his grief. It also has real-world parallels that would have put the Aes Sedai in a kind of morally questionable position (in that it would be very immoral to encourage men to become warders if it was expected/normalised they kill themselves ritually if their Aes Sedai dies).
It took me a long, long time to forgive myself for not doing more. Thank you so much for sharing that. I know there is someone else watching this who knew exactly what Lan was going through. You did what you could, and I hope you've forgiven yourself and no longer blame yourself. Thank you for sharing that. It meant a lot to me.
Lan’s procession scene at the end had tears swelling. I think my favorite part about Lord of the Rings was the ability for men to be very empathetic, gentle, nurturing, etc. I see that quality with this show in droves. So many good male characters. Even though Lan is very stoic in nature, seeing his acting truly was amazing to watch. So much range. What I saw in the scene and ultimately what made me emotional was the parallel between the scene itself and what is referred to as “Men’s work”. One of the most profound experiences of my life was when I was going through some extremely dark places, and elected to take place in what is called a men’s circle ⭕️. During this process you are surrounded by other people (usually guys), who are there both to protect you and to support you. If you truly believe in the process, it can be very exhausting. As a member of the circle it is your job to be present and offer the central member any thing they need. Sometimes they need verbal encouragement, physical touch, silence, or movements (like beating of the chest in the show). The person in the center is shielded and uplifted to process anything that may be buried or lingering in their hearts or minds. In my circle, I sobbed for the first time in years, I screamed so much I gagged, and threw up all over the ground. But the moments that followed brought me peace I’d never known before. It was profoundly powerful, and this scene was just beautiful through and through.
During the funeral ceremony, the head Warder instructed Lan to "lay your hand on him. Relieve us of our grief," so I was wondering if maybe Lan's cry wasn't only the echo from Moraine, but also his role as part of the ceremony.
Other note: rewatching episode 4, there was no blood on Mat's dagger. It wasn't you Mat!
Initially I didn't like Lan showing so much emotion, but I ended up thinking along these lines. Not only are the feelings reverberating back and forth between the bond, but also this is ceremonial. This is the time the stoic warders can "gnash their teeth and wail." And EVEN THEN, in this ceremony, they choose just one of them to do it for all of their stoic asses. One person to act out the catharsis for all of them.
Totally new, not from the books, but I dig it.
Yes, it was ceremonial, a death wail. He was urged into it, and knew what it entailed. Maybe like 70% real emotion, 30% performance. The look he gives Moiraine seemed like 'is my hair ok? how many tears?' haha. In my culture, there are instances where you _hire_ wailers. Afterwards, they wipe their tears, eat your food, get paid and move on to the next funeral.
But yeah, a little over the top, but nonreaders love it, and even I cried as Daniel Henney crying like a little boy broke me.
My girlfriend when watching Ep04 noticed blood on myydral's blade when watching. But I didn't doublechecked this
This is confirmed in the behind the scenes that it was ceremonial.
I thought this as well. Don’t believe it’s in the books but thought it was well done. Didn’t feel out of place and adds a mechanism to illustrate pain/feelings expressed through warder bond. But makes sense to me that a brotherhood of usually stoic warriors would designate a singular member to express their grief. I dunno why I’m typing so much when all I wanted to say was ‘I agree’.
Daniel: "I'm feeling a bit groggy because I'm on percocet"
Me *wondering about the ruby-hilted dagger peering out from Daniel's waistband*
😂
It's just a knife from pharma logoth
@@thelatenightgamer2624 That's funny
@@thelatenightgamer2624 lmao
"maybe I'm just projecting my own experiences" - Oh Daniel, that's what you're supposed to do. That's what art is for, to touch the deepest parts of us. I'm sorry for your experience with your friend, my condolences.
I am a 72 yr old non-book reader. You have become my guide to the series and it helps a good deal. I watched each episode cold as it became available. Then I get your interpretation and often re-watch the episodes again. I'm enjoying it a lot. Once you "get into" a story like this, you don't want it to end. This story has so much depth I feel we are all fortunate that it will play out over a long period of time. I have a friend, my age that has joined your subscription base and we are also comparing notes. I know that we are outliers in terms of your audience, but I do want to pass on that we are finding your reviews very accessible.
I’m a grown up, too (age 67) and I say Ditto to your comment.
Predictions, only seen the show, never read the books:
Egwene and Nynaeve - will just be channellers, your standard magic users.
Mat - Seems like he could be a channeller but from what I've seen so far, feels like he's just infected/cursed by something. Maybe that shadow stuff from that city. Think once that gets cured, he'd be a normal dude
Perrin - Some kind of werewolf or some sort of power where he can control/summon wolves. Doesn't seem to be magic that is channeled though, more of just a trait
Rand - Nothing has really happened to him. He seems the most level-headed and intelligent of the bunch in terms of having a plan. So far he seems just like a normal mortal, which leads me to think he will be revealed as Mr. Dragon
Lot of desk banging in this video, just sayin'
Oh man reading this i cant wait. This is gonna be great
"Egwene and Nynaeve - will just be channellers, your standard magic users." Oh, there is nothing standard about them.
Lol. None of them are standard, average or normal.
"Mr. Dragon" xD
There is nothing normal about Mat, he wouldn't stand for it. .
Mr Dragon....you are a riot. LoL
Good observations though.
Maybe Loial understood it wrong when Rand was talking about a girl from Two Rivers. Loial says he recognized Nynaeve from her braid and Two Rivers customs and so on, but Rand was talking about Egwene.
Agreed. For starters, Rand described Egwene and not Nyneaeve to Loial since he at this point thinks she was killed by Trollocs, if he even described anyone at all. I thought Loial simply deduced she was the woman he was searching for because she isn't and Aes Sedai and she has the distinctive Two Rivers braid and Rand told him he was from there.
this is absolutely how I read that scene too. It also added to his charm that he would fail the task successfully :)
That is so typically Loial, he is the best.
Yeah. I assume Loial saw the braid and just started talking about the two rivers and how he was just chatting with a two rivers lad and then Nyneave is like whatwhatwhat? And she insists on Loial bringing her to them.
I assumed Loial had prior knowledge of the two rivers which is where Rand mentioned he was from, as such when he saw a young women with a singular long braid he just put two and two together.
Also as Daniel mentioned, it’s implied that conversations have happened in between scenes, so maybe Rand described the other party members or at least mentioned that there was more people from 2 rivers than just Egwene
Absurd that none of you have guess yet that Daniel is the Dragon. "I'm on pain killers"....he's acting weird because he can channel
@@Squeekysquid We can't gentle the DR!
because lan is not the dragon but rand is
You’ll probably not see this because you’ve already had 3.5 K comments, which on its own is incredibly impressive, but frankly I had never heard of the wheel of time until I started seeing some news about it on Amazon and then I did a little UA-cam search and up came your book reviews. Based on your recommendation I got the first book in the series and you’ve now influenced me to consume a large number of days of my time in reading these books and at the same time watching the series. That’s just a background to say I love the synopsis that you do of each episode. It really helps bridge the books from the series and helps me to understand the evolution of the characters, and what they are going through, and how they are being presented, and I think you’re doing an incredible job of describing that. I did think in your review of episode four that you were a bit harsh so I’m happy to see you there in episode five recognize that and here that, as a baseline, you love these books and that’s where you’re going from in the future. And your episode five review was, I thought, your best review, so thanks a lot. I don’t know yet if I’m ready to invest in all of the books and I have seen your ranking of the books and I know there comes a time when it’s a slog, but in any case the world he’s created is very entertaining and I think your assessment and synopsis and analysis makes it even better. So I really appreciate it. Cheers. - Mick Pegg.
Stop watching show. Just read books. Unless u like watching a mans work used to wipe amazons arse
You can watch and read at the same time but please take the show as an "adaptation". Personally I got through the first book and was like what is going on in the show. I agree with most things Daniel has said and whole heartedly agree that the actors are capturing the characters' essences (not sure my grammar is perfect there). The show has taken a different approach and I would definitely like a shot for shot of the books as with any reader but I understand the showrunners have to make each episode as compelling as they can.
@@duketip2010 they are not compelling they are stupid. My wife who has not read books, said it is boring and doesnt make sense. She has no feelings for any of the cast
Almost nothing in episode 5 takes place in the book , the suicidal warden isn’t in the books the entire sequence of event with the suicidal warden never takes place in the books , NONE of the kids are at the White Tower , Rand , Matt and Perrin are all supposed to be teenagers not 20 something, Rand and Egwene do not have a romantic relationship, Perrin was never married and never killed anyone he also carries a huge 2 Handed axe which he uses to fight with , he put down his smithing hammer to take up the axe to fight , Egwene , and Nynaeve don’t come to the White Tower until much later , Rand and Matt NEVER go to the city of the White Tower , Egwene and Perrin DONT save themselves they are rescued by another Wolf brother and Lan. THIS ENTIRE EPISODE AND SERIES IS RIDICULOUS FAN FICTION. The characters are all being misportrayed , there are new characters that don’t exist in the books and the sequence of events doesn’t represent what is in the books. This series is a dumpster fire of hot garbage, compared to the books. Robert Jordan must be rolling in his grave and his wife is a complete sell out.
@@AllaricHarosyn well said!!!!!
"If you're ever forcefully brushing someone, please stop."
Well, shoot, there go *my* plans for the weekend! :(
Haven't read the books but I think this episode confirmed my suspicion that Rand is the dragon. Back in episode 3 he seemed to shock the darkfriend that he was able to break down the door (seemed to get some sort of power boost) and this episode seemed to hint that Rand isn't actually from the 2 rivers with Loial seemingly implying he didn't have 2 rivers features. Plus the fact that he said to Mat that he has seen that mountain outside of the white tower before (hinting at a past life?). IDK maybe they are intentionally trying to mislead but he gives be major fantasy protagonist vibes.
Mat seems like he is possessed, maybe he could still be a channeler and what ever is influencing him want to use his power.
Both Nynaeve and Egewne seem to be set up to be Aes Sedai.
No real clue about Perrin. Obviously something to do with wolves (do werewolves exist in this universe)?
Really excited to see the rest of the season, the weekly wait is tough, might have to give in and read the books!
I live for these predictions/analyses! I'm rereading the books for the first time in like 10 years, currently on book 4. I'll just submit a tiny warning that if you do pick up the books, they spoil the DR identity pretty early on. Like, they don't explicitly say it, but it's more heavily hinted such that you'd definitely figure it out within the first half of the book. If you're cool with that, though, by all means-it's a fun ride!
Maybe wait until season 1 is done before starting book 1. The books are much much better but a slower burn. They're also more detailed and you'll learn the mechanics of the world better. They are so worth the read but I'd recommend to wait till s1 is fully dropped due to the question of who the Dragon Reborn is.
Sounds like you'd love the books. Can't recommend them enough.
@@johnblackham3552 lol basically the first scene of chapter one ruins most of the predictions I've seen in these comments... as does a re-watch of episode 2 XD they were warned quite clearly not to take anything out of the city!
I mean the show won’t be better than the books so if you want to have even more of what your already getting and seem to like read the books. Wait til s1 over though
A cool thing I've noticed: Every time Fain shows up you can hear a whistle in the background. It's the same whistle Fain does when he rolls into EF in episode one. If you rewatch certain episodes, this whistle shows up more often (Shadar Logoth for example, right after Mat and Perrin have their little heart to heart).
I noticed that too! Neat little whistled theme.
Yes and that was a backing theme for when the fade showed up in the first episode!
What the? That's neat. I need to rewatch to catch that. Daniel mentioned he appeared twice in Ep5 but I only caught him once. I need to rewatch!
Yes I noticed that too!
I really need to pay more attention because I have not noticed Fain or the whistle at all since episode 1 haha. I suppose it’ll give me something to rewatch the season for.
Logain's laugh is one of my favorite long setups in the books. He mentions something like 5 books later when he meets the Dragon Reborn "I remember looking up and seeing someone so powerful I knew they would break the world" and thats why he laughed maniacally.
Did anyone else notice Fain?? He's in the background whistling when Mat and Rand walk into the inn, and he's sitting in an alcove in several shots of the street from above. He's clearly been following our heroes.
No but soon as I heard Daniel say he was there I'm like, welp, time to rewatch!
I did!
I didn't see him but I heard the whistle!
I like what they are doing with fain a lot.
I saw him immediately!
My LOL moment is when I told my wife “ they are sitting real close to logain, id be crazy if one of em got hit by the veggies being thrown”... on scene later, red hit with a radish
I didn't notice this when I first watched the show, but now that you mention it, why did they sit so close to Logain? He's already gentled, he poses no threat.
@@TomFranklinX And it is also lucky they had that second caged wagon there in case the first one got destroyed....
@@robday2859 Alas the script is dark and full of errors..
Actually, Rand never describes Nynaeve to Loial, cause he didn't know she's alive and looking for them. He must've described Egwene and Loial, brought Nynaeve because of the braid.
I mean he could have described his dead friend. I’ve sure done that lol.
It might be fresh in my mind, but I think Lolal said when he walked in the door that the reason, he brought Nynaeve was because Rand told him he was from the Two Rivers in the library and that he knows their tradition for the braids.
@@TommydatBoy i don't think it was the braid, because at that point egwene had let her braid go. They even talked about that on the road I think.
@@gabrielam2757 Egwene has been with Perrin, though, and Rand hadn't seen her since Shadar Logoth. Was her hair down when they held hands during that talk they had?
@@gabrielam2757 pretty sure that’s just in the books. I’ve only watched once though.
There were a lot of little details in this episode I really liked, but one is that Lan was the one to bury the king of Ghealdan. I know they haven't gotten into who Lan really is in the show (and I don't want to spoil anything for the non book readers even though it's not a hugely important detail for the show so far), but it was fitting that he would be the one to bury a king.
Oh, that’s so neat. Thank you for pointing it out!
yeah, I also noted that little touch that nicely fits with the lore
The first one who channeled was Egwane, then we saw Nyneave heal everyone so she'd be able to channel if she's trained.
Mat is going crazy but the show suggests it's because of that dagger he picked up. Rand keeps having dreams but for now no channeling. Perrin is becoming a Stark (lol).
The thing is, we keep hearing that no men should channel, because the One True Power will make them go insane, but isn't that a big reason to suspect that the Dragon Reborn will be a male? I mean, the two girls can become Aes Sedai (did I write it correctly?) but that does't necessarily mean one of them is the savior. Since they are female it would be an anticlimax, in my opinion.
So that leaves the three boys... and following the fantasy worlds' cliches among them I would bet on Rand (good friend, only thinks of his girl, no interest in anything except doing what he thinks it's right, has a "normal" ability, resistant to change: Harry Potter, Jon Snow, Frodo Baggins, hmmm..... anyone else everybody?)
In response to your comment regarding the fact it must be a male, this is quite the liberal retelling and it is absolutely intended to give all 5 characters "equality". However, the rest of the TV series is making it pretty clear that there is the distinction between the two genders and their magic so this is easily one of the worst threads of this iteration of the pattern.
That being said, at this point in the actual novel I swear I recall a line or two suggesting the girls as at the very least ALMOST possible.
I have not come to the point in the series of books that identify who the Dragon Reborn actually is, though, but I genuinely believe (where I am in the novels, anyway) that it could be any of the 5. I always wanted it to be Nynaeve.
I think Rand channelled when he broke that iron door in ep3 like it was nothing.
@@neiana in the books it is not possible for a female to be the dragon reborn
These books inspired Game of Thrones, so the Starks became Perrin
In the books, Rand has already channeled...but they cut that entire city out of the show, including one of the main characters. Granted, they WILL introduce that character later (they pretty much have to or smart people will riot) and the channeling was such a small thing that Rand didn't really even know what had happened. This whole show is some fan fiction nonsense, loosely based on some great books.
My understanding of Valda's "Aes Sedai can't lie" line was that it was mocking. Like "oh, you're not an Aes Sedai? That sure settles it. Because Aes Sedai can't lie. Yep. Nice try". Maybe I'm misremembering but that's the way I interpreted it in the moment. If I recall he said the reason he didn't believe Egwene was an Aes Sedai was that an Aes Sedai would have fought back more
That makes sense.
I mean, that would certainly explain his "Yep, I believe that you aren't Aes'sedai, because they can't lie. Now channel for me or he dies" thing, if it was a straight faced mocking rather than taking on face value.
That was my take as well. It felt a lot like "I read it on the internet, so it must be true"
SPOILER***
We also have to take into consideration that it is possible that one of the Aes Sedai he caught could lie, which would inform his view of what he thinks of the three oaths.
@@vitali6497 yup, or an Accepted who hadn't been raised to the Shawl as they would have the serpent ring but not have taken the three oaths.
Haven't read the books and here are my guesses.
I think Rand is the dragon mainly because there isn't much else for him to do. Perrin has his whole wolf thing and Mat has the darkness thing. Egwene will become an Aes Sedai probably. Also I assume the dragon is going to be a man with the whole power corruption thing. I don't think Rand will become Egwenes warder because it looks like the show is seting up Rand - Egwene conflict and it would be too simple of a resolution.
As for who can channel, Egwene obviously can, if Rand is the dragon he clearly can and I don't think Mat and Perrin but they will have some sort of magical powers.
Same thoughts
i agree
I like your logic
My wife said almost the same except she thinks Rand will be Egwenes warder and Matt will be nynaeves after she cures him
Hmm interesting take.
"takes his Aes Sedai ring to a fire" - I totally saw that as not just "a fire" but as like a physical embodiment of the Flame of Tar Valon so like way more formal/important/meaningful
I was pretty much thinking "That *IS* the Flame of Tar Valon"
I'm just a horrid book reader, but the amyrlin is the flame
I seen it melt in and thought what if each ring is melted into the material that is keep hot and flowing that is then used to forge the rings of the next to rise to full Sister's
Cause yea ignore the fact that they send somebody who's depression is magically enhanced to a secluded spot with no walls to give up the only thing he has left of the person he was magically attached to. .........
Oh great pick up. Did not even think of that.
I thought the set up for Loial finding Nynaeve was fairly on screen:
-Loial meets Rand and is pretty shocked about him being from the two rivers
-Loial tells Rand that ogiers have access to the tower gardens
-Liandrin creepily directs Nynaeve to the persimmons in the garden
My guess is that they met in the garden, Loial noticed her two rivers braid and it was basically a done deal from there for him to take her to them.
However, what I can't decide is if Liandrin orchestrated this on purpose to make Nynaeve think Moiraine wasn't telling her they were in the city yet.
didnt pick up on that ! Liandrin would definitely do that
But in what world would Nyneave just listen to Liandrin, followed by just wandering off with an Ogier stranger? Like... I'm just a show watcher, but that doesn't sound like it fits her character AT ALL, and for it just to happen all off screen, it felt jarring.
Loial thought he'd found Egwene.
Those TaVeren ammiright lol
Totally got the setup while watching but I feel the way it happened on screen was waaaay to abrupt: "I can access the gardens and look who I found" seemed to come out of nowhere even with the setup. It plays out to me like there's a brief scene missing that could have tied it together better.
The show is my first introduction to WoT and I'm really enjoying your takes without spoilers. Gotta say, I absolutely loved that final funeral scene, it was directed and acted perfectly imo. I'm a bit of an emotional masochist though, but getting that raw breaking emotion from Lan was crucial. Knowing his stoicism in character isn't an absence of emotion.. the character and actor both are really hitting it for me.
Melodramatically ripping your shirt and screaming at the sky is the opposite of stoicism. A perfect example of showing a stoic character having his emotions overwhelm his stoicism is Tommy Lee Jones in Lonesome Dove. Lan's outburst here is cringe inducing.
I took Valda "accepting" Egwene telling the truth as sarcasm. "Oh well there's our proof then, since Aes Sedai can't lie after all", that seemed sarcastic and he doesn't believe them.
Same; it felt like him just teasing her with the three oaths while not actually believing it at all.
Exactly right
Or he knows enough that she's not under oath yet.
It has to be sarcastic, otherwise it doesn't make sense. The only thing you need to do to identify an Aes Sedai in hiding would be to just ask 'Are you Aes Sedai, yes or no, if you don't say anything I'll take for granted that it is a yes'. There would be no way to half truth your way out of this.
Then again somebody who stay silent could have another reason, but it's enough to warrant an arrest and interrogate them (in their eyes). But I would still find that hard to believe that they don't believe in the 3 oaths, knowing that they are hunting them ? Also is the Oath magical in nature ? She seem to imply that she can't physically break it when she spoke about it.
Edit: By reading a wiki, yes the oaths are magical in nature, so they can't physically lie, except with an obvious sarcastic tone, but she would need to say something like 'of course I am not an Aes Sedai' while lifting her eyes to the sky and really mean it as sarcasm.
*Small Spoiler follow*
there are Aes Sedai who have break the spell and serve the dark one in disguise, maybe that's what they are looking for. So maybe they have encounter some of these member who could lie and took for granted that the Oath is just a myth after that encounter.
That's how I took it as well.
The small fireball was a distraction for her to use the power to burn Perrin's and her ropes. It goes back to the first or second episode where Moiraine tells her that her greatest weapon is her brain.
I loved the way "Valda" sold the WTAF moment with Perrin. He thinks he knows all of the demons but when he sees something "new" he totally wets himself which is something I loved from the books.
The Lan & Moraine facial acting grief feedback was *SO* freaking good, the way Moraine was shaking and twitching even before the tears was just perfect. The two of them deserve awards for that scene.
Valda continues to steal every scene that he's in and is one of the most terrifying villain portrayals I've seen, and Loial was freaking adorable! I hate his hair, but his mannerisms and his speech patterns and the way his words have like... inertia, as he keeps talking after his words are irrelevant/nobody is listening, *really* sells the gentle giant.
the way lan and moiraine didn’t even speak to each other for most of this episode but still managed to convey a whole ocean of emotion
I agree the actor for Loial had to have listened to the books 😆
I also loved that Valda freaked out when Perrin was set free. The bully got hit back and he didn't like it.
I agree, you believed they could feel each others pain
Such a strong performance by both actors. But as well as feeling each other’s pain, both of them expressing the horror of what could very well happen if one of them dies & the other is left alive.
As a Death Metal vocalist I was really impressed by your "demonic" voice! Very well done!
Love the review, just one remark. As far as I could tell, Logain's crazed look happened only in Mat's imagination (showing off his paranoia), Rand and the rest of the bystanders just saw Logain as a broken person leaning backwards in the cage.
I wondered about this
It definitely only happened in Mat's head.
That's what I thought
I thought it was maybe only happening in Logain's head. I need a rewatch to decide!
Oh Daniel, you poor sweet young man, I’m so sorry you experienced such a tragic loss of your friend. My heart is with you.
I think the one scene that frustrated me the most was the Logain scene when they brought him into Tar Valon. In the books this was one of my favorite and more memorable scenes because he just exuded power in the books and stood tall and powerful even while being surrounded by Aes Sedai shielding him and Rand had a powerful reaction to seeing him and that always stuck with me for some reason.
This is the excerpt from the book and doesn't contain any spoilers for the show:
"With all of that, it was the man in the cage who caught and held Rand's eyes. He was not close enough to see Logain's face, as he had wanted to, but suddenly he thought he was as close as he cared for. The false Dragon was a tall man, with long, dark hair curling around his broad shoulders. He held himself upright against the sway of the wagon with one hand on the bars over his head. His clothes seemed ordinary, a cloak and coat and breeches that would not have caused comment in any farming village. But the way he wore them. The way he held himself. Logain was a king in every inch of him. The cage might as well not have been there. He held himself erect, head high, and looked over the crowd as if they had come to do him honor. And wherever his gaze swept, there the people fell silent, staring back in awe. When Logain's eyes left them, they screamed with redoubled fury as if to make up for their silence, but it made no difference in the way the man stood, or in the silence that passed along with him."
I was really upset that they gentled him before reaching Tar Valon because they took this incredible example of power from him as a character. Felt like a missed opportunity, and I know it's a small thing to be jaded about, but it was just one of my favorite scene's in the book.
I felt this also.
So I get why they did, and it seems reactionary to me. See, they wanted to give hints about who the Dragon is, so they had to rewrite some things as a result we don't get the Camelyn scenes with Rand, Matt, the Royals, and the Innkeeper (sorry trying to be vague) but it seems this scene was cut as a reaction to the writing they were doing to mask who the dragon is and not make it as transparent as it is in the books.
I think part of the reason they had events play out so that Logain was gentled before he got to the tower was so that we could have a scene showing off Nynaeve's potential as a chaneller, which, in the books, is something we're told about through exposition early on, but isn't really properly shown until much later on. The attempted Logain escape facilitated that, and with him killing one of the more experienced Aes Sedai in the party as part of the escape, it wouldn't make sense for them to not gentle him before moving on. I also do like that we still did get scenes of him showing off his power and his charisma before he was gentled
@@thepotato513 I totally agree and that is the point I was trying to make. Basically, they had to show us Nynaeve's power because they couldn't just tell us. So as a result of that they gentled Logain and as a reaction that changes the scene.
My biggest letdown of the episode was this scene. I was waiting with bated breath for some epic shot of a certain character locking eyes with the other.
Pretty sad it didn't happen, tbh.
Still enjoying the show but damn, they are changing or flat out not including some of the best scenes from the first book. All in the name of secrecy for the identity of the Dragon Reborn. The show still feels good, and the themes it is trying to accomplish are being accomplished. But there are probably 10 or so scenes ALREADY that gave so much charm to the first book that we will never see. Damn.
On a positive note, Tar Valon looked AMAZING
Just finished watching this episode, Daniel your timing is impeccable
I think Valda said “of course, problem solved Aes Sedai can’t lie” he was being insincere. He clearly doesn’t believe it. It was just another tactic.
Yeah good spot. If he believed the three oaths, he would know 100% she isn't Aes Sedai. They can kinda circumvent the oaths, but can't flat out say "I'm not an Aes Sedai."
Well, she’s never taken the oaths- so she can’t break them in any case yet.
@@ChicagoDB Yeah true. Could be a Novice or Accepted I guess.
@@Jagonath - and neither yet in her case…none of that can happen until she reaches the White Tower. She could have told him “I was supposed to become a ‘Wisdom’ in my town…but as we told you when we encountered you a month ago…our town was attacked in Two Rivers…just after we met you before, our group was attacked in the wilds and we were all scattered and separated…these people saved us, and we are traveling onward with these kind people to try and find them at Tar Valon - because that is where they wanted to go.”
The truth would have probably worked…instead of fleeing into the woods and being caught.
@@ChicagoDB Hmm I don't know, I don't think Valda really cares about the truth. He isn't just looking for Aes Sedai as such, just "Dark Friends" which could be anyone (but especially Aes Sedai). Admitting to being a trainee "Wisdom" would have looked just as bad I think.
Just wanted to give a shout out to the actor who played Stepin, Peter Franzén. The way he's relaxed and funny in ep 4 and the way he is in ep 5, all those emotions of wanting to do his duty to bring back the ring, then asking Nynaeve for the goatstongue and his conversation with Lan. Well done, to that.
I saw greater range from him these last few episodes of WoT than in three seasons of Vikings.
Agreed, stellar performance. Such raw emotion that is a pleasure to see, particularly in a man. He (the actor and Stepin himself) along with Daniel Henney (and Lan of course) just rose up my list of ideal men in a heartbeat.
A lot to love in this episode, but the arm linking was one of my favorite scenes. Its a great throw back to a story from the Breaking told in the books about the Aiel trying to stop a male Aes Sedai from destroying a city by linking arms and singing as he killed them all. That's one of the saddest stories in the books and really illustrates the courage of the Aiel from the Age of Legends.
Wait what?
I've read all the books last year but don't remember that scene. Which book is it from?
I thought the linking of arms was incredibly cheesy and pathetic. Knowing about the tinkers' backstory the scene you mentioned would absolutely redeem that scene from the show for me
@@shogiteacher7093 If I recall correctly it was Shadow Rising during the glass columns of Rhuidean.
@@shogiteacher7093 Yep it was one of the visions Rand saw during the Rhuidean bit as the other person said, I vividly remember it coz it hurt me lmao
@@shogiteacher7093 Found it: Trying not to include spoilers. A conversation between Solinda and Jonai. It was at Tzora. Jaric Mondoran.
Thats a lot of spoilers in one comment
I felt like Valda was just mocking Egwene when talking about her being an Aes Sedai.
That's the way I took it too. Like "Oh well, if you say that you aren't an Aes Sedai then there's nothing I can do I guess.....Just kidding, KNIFE."
That's how I viewed it as well. He was mocking the absurdity of the three other from his perspective. I think it gives him depth to show that he has interrogated a lot of aes sedai and been told everything under the sun which he just dismisses as witch lies basically.
Agreed. If he believed her, why not let them go.
He may have believed Egwene that she is not an Aes Sedai, but he did not believe that she cannot channel. As per his speech, anyone who can channel is a darkfriend. He likely suspected that she is going to Tar Valon to become an Aes Sedai. I mean why else would a farmer girl from the two rivers region travel by herself to Tar Valon. Also keep in mind, that they misrepresented to him who they were the first time they met, which means they had something to hide.
Yeah I think he didn’t believe her at all. Kinda like the satirical “witch test” in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. She’s guilty in his eyes no matter what he says, and he’s a sadist first and foremost. Not even remotely interested in truth or justice...so it fits in my mind.
So, I’m assuming they put Logain inside the cage, so they can keep the fact that they gentled him without a judgment secret
And it also makes their parade and show of power that much more impressive in my opinion. Moiraine, Lan and Nynaeve were probably able to make it to the Tower much faster because the others were having a new cage discreetly brought out to them.
And spectacle.
Totally makes sense. They even had the two sisters in position to ward him, though they were no longer needed.
And to provide an opportunity for Liandrin to be 'accidently' hit with a raddish. That was a beautiful touch
yes! the two AES Sedai behind the cage were supposed to keep the shield on him just like before the gentle-ing.
This comment contains MAJOR SPOILERS:
The Tinkers linking arms was a reference to their ancestors linking arms against a crazed male channeler during The Breaking. One of the Aes Sedai mentions it in one of the Rhuidean visions. Tinkers have a history of linking arms and waiting to be slaughtered to give others a chance to escape.
Loved the episode for the progression of the series. Have read all the books multiple times so no spoiler discussion but the suicide stuff hit me pretty hard as well. My daughter attempted something last summer and thankfully I found her in time and healing has started for her but I felt so many emotions watching those scenes. That was the hardest day/ week of my life and I know the emotions I felt so can only imagine how I would feel if I hadn't found her in time. Daniel Henney's portrayal of that pain hit me really hard and then seeing you talk about it...man. I'm not a hugger or usually emotional but I wanted to give you a hug when you were talking about your experience.
That was the worst part of the show. Lan crying was stupid.
I've come close to losing a loved one that way too...it is terrible.
Much love for you, for your family, this can be very triggering and hard to watch I'm that instance. For what it's worth, a random stranger you'll never meet is here in solidarity with you and any pain your family may.continue to feel.
The Lan emotional 'breakdown' was ritual and traditional. The elder lead warder (well I assume he is a wader) even says to Lan "show us our pain". I think this element is missed by a lot of fans and I think is super important.
This episode was interesting. The Perrin/Egwene part was really well done. The actor who plays the Light guy is so good at playing a bad guy. Kudos to him. The Rand/Mat part was interesting, lots of potential there. Loial was brilliant. When he was describing his arrival into the city and all the swords pointed at him and "I was about to get mad" was grin worthy. The Aes Sedai stuff was brilliant and enjoyable. The Lan stuff mighty potent.
People were commenting about how 'its a waste to spend so much time on a random warder who is gone by the end anyway' and I couldn't be more in disagreement. While we watched him what we really focused on was Lan and Moraine and I think it was super potent and powerful.
Oh, I hadn't realized the graves were for everyone. I'm glad that the Aes Sedai did that. That they buried with respect even those that fought against them.
Tar Valon is pretty great. A lot less 'magical' then I was expecting but I think its okay.
Oh my gosh I'm so glad someone else noticed that about the ritual grief! That was absolutely my read too, but I'm an anthropology grad student so I wondered if maybe I had just misinterpreted the scene lol.
It was also really powerful, at least for me, to have Lan bury a King.
Except that Lan has been fighting his entire life. Literally. He’s lost so many friends. This show is taking stone Lan and turning him to putty Lan
@@GannerRhysode did you even read the oc. It was ritual grief. He let his emotions flow while the others were stoic (or at least tried to be). Lan isn’t emotionless in the books, he just has control over his emotions. This is him letting the walls down.
@@GannerRhysode Yeah I think he's kinda honor bound at that point to grieve for everyone. Death is lighter than a feather.....
The editing of that Loial scene was weird but I do appreciate them setting up the premise that Loial *actually listens* to people... and then sometimes just shows up with exactly the information/thing they need. Even though they pay him little mind elsewise.
Idk what it was about Loial's first scene but it was so awkward more than lovable. It wasn't the visuals more than the line delivery and the gestures. He just seemd like he was so obviously acting, almost stage acting. I was imagining more along the Ent type of vibe with just a sprinkling of corniness. But all the pointing and the line delivery felt out of place
Glad I am not the only one who found Loial's scene badly edited. It felt rushed. Not that I need to see everything on screen, but you can't show a character 2 minutes and then have it be fully part of the story having offscreen evolution.
Yeah, Loial was doing Loail things. Rand never explained what Egwene looked like, and he never even mentioned that Nynaeve existed. Loial just payed attention and went out and did stuff. He thinks Rand is an Aiel because of his hair, he is so convinced that he thinks it is interesting that Rand doesn't know he is one. We can assume this is because he read in a book once that Aiel have red hair. Same deal with Nynaeve, he just went out to see what was up with the garden at the white tower and saw a two rivers braid there and assumed this had to be Rand's friend. After all, absolutely no one else in the world braids their hair, it's just two rivers people, or so a book told him once.
@@azureskeith8643 There are a few nations in WoT who use braids, and they each use very distinct styles afaik. We don't know that yet though so it's kind of a moot point
@@jamesbeattie4268 Yeah, I was being kind of sarcastic. Obviously other people braid their hair, and we saw in the first episode that even two river's people braid their hair in different ways. It still makes sense that Loial would just see a braid and automatically assume that it is Rand's friend, but it is obviously just a writing convention to get them to meet back up.
I havent read the books so Im new to this show. My current theorie is: rand gotta be the dragon right? Nynaeve is a the healer every raid group need. Egwene is a battlemage prolly dishing out dps. Perrin is a beast that can control wolves basically a tank? En matt is the dark knight grieving the team
I think you must have magical powers too! 😊😊
I have no comment on your prediction (internationally) but I do find it interesting with you pulling MMO style classes to add to your point
Mat is 100% rogue.
I would call mat a rogue too lol
This comment made me laugh so hard. Thank you lmfao
I wish they had Lan being completely stoic in the funeral procession and panning over to reveal Moraine crying her eyes out. There was such an opportunity there to show the depth of Lan's emotion through Moraine while retaining his stoicism.
It was his job to grieve in the ritual
That or just skip this subplot completely. They spent way too much time on it. I do, however, think your suggestion is monumentally better than what the writers of the show came up with.
@@josephwebber7932 right? There's only eight episodes and they waste all this time on some random Warder while cutting out great stuff from the books.
It was his duty to grieve for the other warders. And we all know how Lan feels about duty.
I disagree. People who haven't read the books would just see Moiraine as sad and not connect the dots as well. This scene was meant to portray that bond to people who haven't read the books and help them understand it even more.
What I loved the most about episode 5 was how Rosamund Pike and Daniel Henney were able to communicate so much between Moiraine and Lan without saying a single word. Not once but twice in the episode.
I'm convinced that they could put Daniel Henney in a scene were he monologues to a stump and we'd all be saying 'you know, I'm seeing sparks with he and that stump'. Just overall all around excellent casting and acting
I'm convinced Rosamund and Daniel somehow managed to bond each other IRL, because they are *perfect.* And this is only season 1!
Episode 5: "What the Warders do when you're not watching"
just bros being bros
Not read the books but how come the white cloaks can just walk around outside the white tower city, and do whatever the fck they want just doesnt make much sense to me
@@oscarbennion42 Aes sedai can only kill shadowspawn because of their oath. And the white-cloaks are there just to taunt the Aes sedai, in the books they just provoke them because they know they can get clapped.
@@oscarbennion42 I’ve read the first 4 books and I still don’t really know how to answer you question. They are a very powerful religious organization so they can do what they want. Not a good answer but the only one I can see. This obviously leads to the follow up question, why are they so powerful? They are the children of the light (god) and since majority of the ppl believe in the light they have power.
@@oscarbennion42 the encounter happened further from the tower in the books, not within visible range by far. If I remember right. But for the show, they probably aren't close enough to be a big problem yet. Far enough away that the city won't notice wolves attacking and people screaming is my guess. Not sure though. Also in the books, we got to camelyn before tarvalon so 🤷♀️...
No spoilers. One of my most favorite lines from the Books is..."We Come"...gives me tingles. Jordon only used it a few times, but every time was epic.
We come, Brother. We hunt.
Jesus Christ you’re right I just got tingles remembering that
I haven't read the books yet. So far I had my opinion changed like 5 times, but currently I believe that Mat, Nynaeve and Egwene can channel and Perrin and Rand are something else, but special in their own way. Maybe Rand and Nynaeve will become warden & Aes Sedai and Egwene is the Dragon. That's what I think, at least until next week's episode. 😊
I love this.
lol, so cute
The dragon is thom
The Dragon is the friends we made along the way
Is it bad that, even in book one, I actually kinda ship Rand and Nynaeve?
I've not read the books and my predictions are:
Mat: probably can't channel but is currently cursed by the dagger thingy.
Nynaeve and Egwene: both can channel, and they might become aes sedai.
Perrin: he's probably like a warg from the game of thrones.
Rand: he the only one who hasn't shown any magical ability, so he might actually be the dragon.
I love that non book readers are like "Rand doesn't have anything going for him so he must be the Dragon"
It’s so funny to me that show watchers actually get any kind off mystery on who the dragon is. In the books out of the 50 or so chapters the Dragons POV is like 45 of them
In the episode in the mining village where they meet Thom... Rand gets trapped inside a room that is a jail. The dark friend says something like "3 people couldnt get through that door." Rand knocks it down. He must have super human strength like Perrin?
That braid tug in the cold open really hit me, stellar performance.
My husband hasn’t read the books. And now there’s a bit of a joke where whenever there’s a new character, he asks if they are the Dragon 😂😂😂. I love how the show gives hints that readers would pick up on but it goes over the head of new fans. It’s interesting how much they hint it could be any of the two river folk!
I have two theories on why Lan "broke". One - it was part of the ceremony, like the speaker said "release us of our grief" or something to that tone, so it could be ritualistic. Two - because Moraine was crying and he could feel her emotions. And personally I think that she was not crying for Stepin but that she was crying for Lan, knowing that this is what would happen to him should she perish, and he sensed she was thinking of her own death and that's what brought him over. Especially with that scene earlier where she tells Alanna that she read somewhere that one can release a Warder.
I have to say: I loved Loial! I was so afraid because of the pictures earlier, but the moment he opened his mouth all was forgotten and forgiven. I do wish he was taller, though, but that's all.
Very minor spoiler:
Loial thought Rand was an Aiel because of his hair, so clearly he had enough knowledge about Aiel (understandable, Loial is very knowledgeable), therefore it struck me as weird that he would think than an Aiel from Two Rivers is odd, instead of recognising that if Rand was, in fact, an Aiel, he would not carry, or even touch, a sword.
I have experienced several suicides, never found them, but they were close, and the feeling of failure is overwhelming.
I think the show set up the perfect situation to show how strong and stoic Lan is by having him fail at saving someone close and having to experience it for all the other Warders present. So when they said, "relieve us of our grief," I felt like it was one Warder being able to show the pain while everyone else's job is to find the courage and keep it together.
Yeah. If this wasn't what they meant it should have been.
Which is stupid for the character of Lan. Make it any other warder.
@@shifttheshaman Lan doesn't cry at the death of a soldier.
Death is lighter than a feather after all. Lan was a poor choice canonically but they wanted to display Rosamund's acting chops. Some of the changes really piss me off, but I just have to calm down, realize the show is mainly for non-readers, and realize that this is an adaptation of the characters' NEXT life. It's not an adaptation of the scenes in the books. Some key phrases are the same which is important, especially if they ever reach Dumai's Wells. It's a great show... but it is its own story set in the WoT universe.
Except this was shallow and unearned as it was made up and contrived to elicit that specific response. This wasn't using something Jordan wrote and eloquently putting it out there, it is needlessly injecting the episode before it to create the situation that we see here, no different than giving Perrin a wife who only existed to be killed and create existential dread for him. So I cannot give them props for this scene because they contrived it.
Non-book reader thoughts
Egwene: Aes Sedai who replaces the one that got killed in episode 4
Rand: Dragon Reborn
Perrin: Special bloodline guy
Matt: Warder to Nynaeve
Nynaeve: Aes Sedai who replaces Moiraine since she'll be killed off
I'm guessing it's Rand: everyone else has done something magical so far other than the dreams they all had (both girls have channeled, Matt seems to have some kind of corruption he's dealing with since he picked up that knife, and Perrin has his whole wolf thing going on) which just leaves Rand to have something special happen to him
Even rand has had a magical moment! If you remember when the darkfriend bartender had Rand locked up in the shack, she told him the door was solid iron. No way he could make it through. After only 3 shoulder charges he knocked the door out of its hinges. Seems a little sketchy doesn't it?
@@guywithapewpew7721 I assumed she was lying (she was evil after all)
He recognized the mountain.
@@backtoweedin4375 Shhhhh
@@jeremydyck5989 If you watch it again, look at her face. (I've watched every episode twice, and I recommend it, as there are a ton of little details you may miss on first viewing) She bout shat her pantaloons when he busted that door down. I don't think she was lying about the door. Sounds like an evil person move to lock their victim in a soundproof cabin outback w/ an iron door. And we've got Nynaeve healing a crowd of people and burning with the heat of 1000 suns, not to mention her temper. Very dragon-esque one might say. lol It's hard to tell who it is really.
I understood the scene when Lan screams in a different way. I see it as part of the cerimony. When the old guy says "Relieve us from our grief", Lan becomes responsible to show emotion for everybody in the room (and for himself, of course). Which explains why it is so over the top.
So in that context, not being stoic is an act of respect and tradition.
I agree.
Yup. This is 100% their intention.
Although it wasnt mentioned but also Perrin's confession about his wife was yet another powerful moment about grief. This whole episode got me emotional
i totally missed that he killed her (accidentally) so yea was sad as!
I honestly found that part a bit uncompelling actually. I dunno. It feels like the acting just didn't really reach me. Then him looking just standing, mouth open, drool falling to the floor, grunting later on just made me dislike that entire scene.
@@philip7922 I can see why you would think this scene was unappealing, but he was being skinned by Valda sooo to me grunting was allowed. I did wanted more from his confession tho but was happy that it wasn't forgotten
Lan’s procession scene at the end had tears swelling. I think my favorite part about Lord of the Rings was the ability for men to be very empathetic, gentle, nurturing, etc. I see that quality with this show in droves. So many good male characters. Even though Lan is very stoic in nature, seeing his acting truly was amazing to watch. So much range. What I saw in the scene and ultimately what made me emotional was the parallel between the scene itself and what is referred to as “Men’s work”. One of the most profound experiences of my life was when I was going through some extremely dark places, and elected to take place in what is called a men’s circle ⭕️. During this process you are surrounded by other people (usually guys), who are there both to protect you and to support you. If you truly believe in the process, it can be very exhausting. As a member of the circle it is your job to be present and offer the central member any thing they need. Sometimes they need verbal encouragement, physical touch, silence, or movements (like beating of the chest in the show). The person in the center is shielded and uplifted to process anything that may be buried or lingering in their hearts or minds. In my circle, I sobbed for the first time in years, I screamed so much I gagged, and threw up all over the ground. But the moments that followed brought me peace I’d never known before. It was profoundly powerful, and this scene was just beautiful through and through.
I couldn’t get over the fact that Loial was not massively huge. I realize it would be hard to do throughout the series. It’s just a very specific part of the Ogier
especially when you know it's possible with forced perspective like LOTR in fucking 1999
I noticed that too and it also bothered me
I think we must assume that, in the show's version of WoT, it is just a very specific part of an Ogier that is massively huge, if you know what I mean.
*laughs in Peter Jackson*
Yeah, and same for the Trollocs honestly. Sometimes they are are protrayed as big, but many times, you can see that they are human-size. Just like Loial.
Haven't read the books and here's my impression so far: Egwene, Nynaeve and Mat can definitely channel; Perrin has some other powers that connects him to the wolves; Rand is either capable of channeling or he'll be revealed to have different powers.
My strongest impression about who's the Dragon would be Nynaeve, but from the context and what I've picked up on the internet, I'm kinda sure that dragon has to be a man, so my next guess is Rand.
they twisted the prophecy for no obvious reason but even in the show they mention a required age range. that excludes 2 of the 5 already (at least one you can argue one age is changed for the show). makes the characters look really stupid.
"It's already over?" That was literally my reaction at the end. I thought it was a very strong episode.
And yeah, I'm totally sold on Hammed's portrayal of Loial. Still a shame about the height, ears, and eyebrows. But upon reflection, making him significantly bigger might take away from where they're going with Perrin.
Finally, I do think that Daniel Henney has done a great job with Lan's stoicism. And this one display of grief feels earned, especially under the circumstances. The ceremony also gave me minor Klingon death rite vibes. Perhaps a very small homage to Star Trek?
Yes!
Ogiers were supposed to be as big as trollocs, otherwise them "Chopping Trollocs as they were chopping wood" doesn't really workout
I was the same when I seen him, did a great job portraying him but was expecting a behemoth of a loail not just a slightly taller then human guy.
Budget and time might have had something to do with it. We might get lots of shots from below of Loial to make him appear taller :) That trick was used a lot with Gandalf in Hobbit company. Let's see if they do something with the ears in future episodes.
@@krennorec8861 Well, he is a very young Ogier.
That Loial performance is just *chef's kiss* my delight in having an absolutely perfect actor for the role completely overshadowed how different I imagined Ogier would look. I already love him so much, it only took hearing his voice.
In this scenario, it was literally Lan's duty to the tradition to openly and loudly mourn the loss of their friend. They literally ask him to "relieve us of our grief". Lan is never one to shirk on his duties, and it was a VERY clever way to show us Lan in legitimate mourning without it actually breaking his very stoic character.
my thoughts exactly!
Well said. I was thinking this but couldn't express in words
Yes, I didn't realize it at first, but afterward it's clear that it's part of the ritual.
Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather
Yeah, that was my assumption. But I definitely read it as both tbh. Which makes me love the scene more.
I like the story about Egwene being able to take unbelievable levels of pain, and not crying out. That's a character building moment right there. It's saying the Egwene can take a lot of punishment, and keep on ticking.
I see what Lan did was part of a Ceremony. It was his job to channel the grief of everyone there, and he put everything he had into it. It was a sign of respect for the dead.
Yeah that's how I read it. Like one person I tasked to basically do a little song and dance, but with genuine feeling of just...shed the tears we want to shed and howl in the grief we all feel.
Egwene was just sitting in a chair, how is that 'taking unbelievable levels of pain'?
@@cybele_m oh crap. My bad, I thought the 'keep on ticking' bit referenced her channeling.
@@lukesdewhurst I didn't say she was experiencing that kind of pain during that seen. I was talking about the story where she was a little girl. That story says that Egwene can handle a lot of punishment. That ability is something she's really going to need with the future she has for herself.
Not remembering Egwene taking unbelievable level of pain.. at least physical in this episode. I would need to rewatch it.
Totally agree with your take on Lan, which it's a different take from what Daniel said in the video. It justifies why Lan had that emotional feeling.. was not a natural breakdown... Was part of a ritual that he was able to exorcise his and everyone's pain. Warders have to be in control of their emotions so I see the logic of choosing the one warder more affected by grief and allow them for that moment to put down that wall.
Great scene, very emotional heavy. I end up in tears. Just didn't like that much the "hulk" moment where in last gutural.scream he opens his shirt..meh.. . But just minor detail.
I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. I'm so sorry you lost someone that way and had to experience it so viscerally. My condolences to both you and your friend's devastated family.
You're doing a great job with these deep dives, by the way. They are both entertaining and informative, and I find myself looking forward to seeing them after I watch the episode.
I took the line where Valda says "because Asedai can't lie" more like in a way as if he were saying it with air quotes as if to say he doesn't believe that. - these episodes have me really wanting to read the books
I agree, he says it, but nothing he does indicates he believes it.
You should. The books are significantly better. The show has already contradicted itself at points, let alone the loads of foreshadowing that Robert Jordan constantly uses that just isn't done by the show.
For me actually, as much as I enjoyed the series the first time, reading it the second time (prompted by the show) has actually been an even better experience. Noticing what I missed, seeing how early some signs were showing up.
There is an alternate theory that I subscribe too. That he didn't want to engage with a prepared Aes Sedai, an obvious warder, and whatever her traveling companians where with a small detachment, including a commander with men whom where not Questioners and that he may not have been able to trust fully. So he didn't ask her directly in that scene as he was biding his time. He probably knows the 3 oaths hold true imo.
@@lordAvatar Thats a good point. It seems like something a sicko like him would test. Like hold up a yellow handkerchief and torture them unless they say its blue.
For me, I adhere to the theory that it was indeed sarcasm when he said that, but I had to check if the oath was magical in nature or not. It is indeed magical in nature and Aes Sedai cannot physically lie. That being said, by looking into a wiki page on the wheel of time about the oath, I've been spoiled some information that could explain why he still doesn't believe an Aes Sedai is not bounded to the truth. I haven't read the book, so please don't spoil me further lol (Although I don't really mind the information I got, but other could).
*Spoiler ahead*
We already know that Aes Sedai can speak in half truth. They can also lie by using obvious sarcasm, like saying 'Of course I am not an Aes Sedai' while lifting their eye to the ceiling. That being said, they could know that and just ask point blank : Are you Aes Sedai, yes or no, silence mean yes, and you must speak in a neutral tone.
This is where the spoiler start, so stop reading now if you don't want to know what might be reveal in the show later. So here it is, the dark one have infiltrated the Aes Sedai and some of them are spy working for him. They have a way to break the oath so that they can lie while the other cannot. It is probable that at some point the white cloak have arested one of these spy and , noticing that she could lie, took for granted that the oath is just a myth circulated by the White Tower.
as a non-book reader, these are my predictions:
Nynaeve - as much as she's against it, i do highly believe that she'll become a trainee/novice and then graduate in to becoming a Aes Sedai + she'll have a forbidden relationship with Lan.
Egwene - she'll 100% become an Aes Sedai and become one of the strongest channelers in the world + she seems very wise/ambitious and considering how fast she learned, i believe she'll become a high-ranked Aes Sedai. Her romance with Rand will continue.
Rand - he's the Dragon Reborn! he's being portrayed as this "good boy" and his aura is very "main character"-ish and its usually characters like him that have some kind of plot twist to them, that's why i think Rand is the Dragon. besides that, i believe that Rand will marry Egwene and become her Warder (but idk if a character is allowed to be a Dragon while being a Warder at the same time...?)
Perrin - i'm sensing that he'll transform into an alpha/leader over a wolf-pack (the Teen Wolf-effect)
Mat - he's cursed by the dagger but he'll get well soon when somebody destroys the dagger and cures him. but aside from that, i don't think he has any powers. honestly, i've no clue where his character is heading but i suspect that he'll be the type to put others happiness/safety first over his own.
You’re not 100% right but on the right track with a lot of it!
Honestly, you may not read this, but damn this warms my heart knowing the heart and soul of the books is there and people, like yourself, are picking up on the leads/foreshadowing. Hope you continue to enjoy!
You are certain you haven't read the books :P
Only last point is wrong in a way. Mat has (from the start) "the power of luck", but they haven't really showed that in the show
@@krennorec8861 not really showing his luck. more bad luck lol but let's not go into spoilers now :p
Mat role in the books is extremely important just the same as the others.
I had a best friend kill himself and I was also the first one finding my dear-friend dead from that act. This episode insanely rang that memory within me, and I felt that loss from this episode that cant be said in words. I will never say to anyone, "I know what you feel", because pain is relative, but I can say, "I can only imagine what you feel, even if its a whisper of it"... Seeing Lan suffering that he couldn't do more to save his friend, speaks to my heart of hearts. Yet, he will strive to fight on. Thank you for this video. Cheers.
Nice vid. Surprised you didn't mention the symbolism of Egween's braid being undone / brushed out by the Whitecloaks. Can't wait for next episode--WoT is fantastic!
We had her first braid tug in the trolloc pool (it was a "I whip my hair back" but I'm counting it), and after Lan walks out she she and Moiranne are taking... we get our first "folded her arms under her bosom in frustration".
Nynaeves braid was tugged a lot when the trolloc dragged her away by it. Maybe she got traumatized by that and doesn't do that herself anymore :D
I also noticed some dress smoothing when Nyneave is talking to Rand in the inn and she sits down next to him! Honestly im disappointed more people haven't seen this and mentioned it.
This whole adaptation makes me want to do up my hair in a braid and tug on it. By the light it is so bad.
As a non-book reader, I got a feeling that the entire party will be able to use the One Power one way or the other, as is shown with Perrin getting frickin' wolf eyes this episode; and I get strong main character feels from Rand so my guess for the Dragon Reborn is him. Also, on the beginning of the episode I was pretty sure that Stepin was gonna kill himself but as it went on it felt more and more like he'd become Nynaeve's warder, so it kind of caught me by surprise when he went through with it. Awesome videos btw! :)
Stepin was great this episode. Loved his performance.
Hahahahahh you have much to learn. The wheel weaves as the wheel wills
@Dusty Lee Sledge no there one. The feel what eachuther feel. The good the bad the steamy and the ugly. Different color sisters have different relationships with there warders.
Greens are the most likely to get intimate, even with multiple warders lol.
There is alot of things to come.
But it's a big big big continent and shit gets real quick. Lol
Yeah I feel the same
@Dusty Lee Sledge according to show, more or less yes
I went through the same thing finding my cousin in a very similar state and it hurts to know someone that has been my escape from grief has felt that trauma. I felt everything about that in this episode through Lan and I feel like the raw emotions, guilt, etc. were captured perfectly. The performances in this show have been so good that, as a book reader, I damn near give every change a pass because the essence of each character is ever present. Love you man
Daniel, thanks for talking about the personal pain you experienced in regard to episode 5. It hit me like a train, and even though it was noncanon, it summed up a lot of what I love about wot. The series saved my life in ways and having it on screen has been indescribably emotional for me.
so here are my thoughts as non-book reader:
-Nynaeve is probably the most interesting character for me right now. Her whole involvement with Lan is really compelling. I know how they talked about her having feelings for him but honestly I was really getting siblings vibes so idk.
-I feel like Rand is the Dragon Reborn just because so far the special stuff he has done has been really subtle, unlike the rest of the group (I feel like it subverts expectations for the person you expect least to have the power). I don't know if this is true but I thought that the Dragon Reborn was able to channel without going mad (Moraine said something to the guy in the box about not being the Dragon because the voices he heard were madness or something), Rand seems slightly more sane than the others at this point. If he were just any other man who could chanel he would be hearing voices and slowly losing it. Also he remembered the mountain so maybe he has some memory from his past life (I know you can't because it's a new start every turn of the wheel, but maybe it is different for the Dragon Reborn)
-Egwene could be the Dragon Reborn, but I'm confused about how people tell if a woman is just a powerful Aes Sedai or the Dragon Reborn.
-There's something going on with Perrin, especially with the wolves, he seems to be a protector sort so maybe his magic will have something to do with saving people (especially since he didn't save his wife). I also thought about him becoming a warder but it's too soon to tell.
-I don't think Mat is a channeller I just think he is cursed with some dark magic in the knife. Maybe it has something to do with the creature with flaming eyes that they kept dreaming about. When he took the knife he tied the creature to himself? It could be manipulating him to enact the horrible deems that it wants, so my bets are on the fact that he actually killed the little girl and her family.
Every male channeller is doomed to go mad and suffer a terrible death, because of the Taint of Saidin (the male part of the One Power). No exceptions, Dragon or not.
Yeah it's a major criticism of the show that the Dragon can be female, as that removes the dread of a powerful male channeler from the mythos. Interesting takes though!
I hated her for first 3 episodes.
Now she is my favourite character.
@@salomaonplanetsaturn6038 her?
@@rogown2 I used to agree with this but then I read Rafe's answer to this question in his Reddit AMA. He basically said that people, especially Aes Sedai, and most especially Moiraine, just don't completely trust 3000 year old prophecies. WHat if the White Tower prepares only for TDR to be male, and suddenly it turns out that the prophecies were wrong and TDR was female? Generally accepted philosophy is that the Wheel spins out souls with the same gender, but is it really ok to leave something that important to chance? WHat if the philosophers are wrong about it?
Unreliable narrator is a common theme in the books. ("I'M NOT SCREAMING", screamed Nynaeve). So this is just something the showmakers have put down to people being a little more wary than in the books
I loved this episode. It made me start to really feel for these characters in a way that I hadn't before. Perrin admitting to Egwene how he'd killed his wife was pretty well done and powerful. Great character moments and I was genuinely heartbroken at the end.
Also, thanks for sharing your own traumatic experience here. I'm so sorry you had to go through that but being willing enough to be vulnerable and sharing is important.
Well done.
i have read the books so ill share my GF's theories so far since she hasnt
she's currently 50/50 on it being Mat or Rand (Mat due to the stuff going on and Rand cause he stands out from the rest of the Two Rivers folk)
she thinks if Nyneave becomes an Aes Sedai she will join the yellows (we've discussed the colors of the Ajah from an overview)
and uh she is 1000% sure its not Perrin but she really wants to know what the hell is going on with him
(i also hope we get the missing character for Perrin's story as well but im not holding my breath)
also i loved Loial. like as soon as he was on screen and talking, it hit me just right to where i actually started stimming a bit out just sheer joy as Loial is one of my favorite characters. and the ending scene really broke my gf a bit. all of the grief stuff was handle superbly and i loved the respect the Aes Sedai showed to all of the fallen
My wife is betting on who's gonna die first. Ahah
And nothing about Egwene, because, well, let's admit it, she's very forgettable.
Also, the actress is not on par with the rest of the cast.
(She's not really good. I can't unsee her pooping- when she tries to channel).
@@j.s.173 All my friends are! I just tell them that this isn't GOT.
@@ChristmasLore egwene was pretty forgettable in the first book as well.
Regarding Lan’s expression of emotion during funeral seen, Lan is the designated mourner in the ritual so he is expected to express the emotions of everyone in attendance. This is discussed in the behind the scenes featurette for the episode.
Interesting. I took it as he was expected to express all his mourning at the funeral, so he could Ramon clear headed and stoic from then on. I took it as an expectation of wards, not just his character.
Also it works on a different level since he suspected perrin of being a warder ,so if he tortured perrin , it would affect egwene also ,on the off chance .
I've never heard of this series until a few weeks ago: My prediction atm is that no single one of the 5 is the dragon reborn, but all 5 have individual abilities that when put with the others, make up the power of the dragon. So far there has been teases for each of them being more than they thought. Nynaeve in episode 4, Rand with the door, Perrin with the wolves, Egwene with the channelling and Mat with the channelling teases (but that could be that freaky dagger he picked up could be the source). These predictions feel so far off, but every episode my dragon prediction has changed, until at the end of ep5 it hit me that it could be all of them!
I have no clue where this story is going and I love how unexpected it's all been so far and I assume that my prediction will've completely shifted next week. Bring it on!
Edit: I only just posted the comment but I just remembered that I think Mat could make a good warder... Maybe his ability is some sort of protection? We've seen how protective he is over his sisters during the attack in episode 1, so I'm now wondering if that was foreshadowing.
Almost any comment in yae or nae to this prediction is a spoiler. Let's wait and see!!!!
The son of battle will dance with the jack of shadow that is the foreshadow
Interesting prediction. I won't say for or against it.
Thanks for that share... I hope you enjoy how the mysteries unravel.
Go go Power Rangers
The tinkers locking arms were a direct throw back to the daishan aiel linking arms to try to calm a mad aes sedai in the age of legends (book 4 i think). I also spotted the inconsistency with the whitecloaks. The actor playing loial was absolutely perfect. Overall i enjoyed the episode but preferred E4. Oh i prefer the warders being human.
I think we only see the whitecloaks as inconsistent because we knew moiraine was an aeis sedai when they met. In reality I think it would be kind of silly if whitecloaks stopped every woman they met and asked them if they were an aeis sedai. And it would probably make them rather unpopular and they obviously care about their image, I mean look at those haircuts! And the mustaches! Impeccable!
Omg I didn't notice this but this is such an amazing detail. Wow, I'm just trying to digest that but it fits so well with the contiunity of tradition.
@@piotrbrys8008 yup, to me it shows that the showrunner really cares about these little details (such as the courage of the dai'shan aiel) - loved logain maniacally laughing when he saw 'a taveren who will shake the world' as well.
Yep, I actually loved that Tinker scene and had me a bit emotional after.
@@Gilescowdemdem when i re-watched the episode i appreciated it a lot more to be honest.
I did like Loial's humour. "An Aielman from the Two Rivers who doesn't know he's an Aielman."
Minor spoilers:
Overall the show is doing a pretty good job of foreshadowing .
I think the false dragon is back in the cage (and has two Aes Sedai behind him) because the Tower is pretending they didn't gentle and are going to hold the full trial.
I would agree except if they pretend they didn't gentle him, they'd have to do a whole lot more than a cage, especially if they want to keep up the idea that he's powerful enough to potentially break the world.
@@neiana we see warders around him and Aes Sedai behind him in the same position as when we first meet the procession in episode 3. It seemed clear to me that they are trying to pretend like he is still a threat
@@neiana Honestly, that's why they are now calling him a FALSE dragon. they want to relay to the people that the dragon isn't back, so people won't worry. after all, once the dragon is back, the break of the world could happen again.
@@stevenhedge2850 Ah ! Good note. Makes more sense than an Aiel who says he isn't Aiel.
Actually, when Rand and Mat are looking Logain, it seems only Mat can see him laughing..
The camera work there was VERY clever, imo.
Things are not always as they seem 😉
Interesting... I read it the opposite way. I thought Logain was focusing on Mat as he was breaking down.
I cannot even imagine going through something as you and Lan did. Wow. Thanks for sharing. Your videos are top-tier.
I really appreciate that you try so hard to not giving spoilers from the book. I just started the book as well as finished season 1, your commentary is perfect for people like me
Loial was about as perfect as he could be. The way he kept talking even though Rand was clearly over the conversation? Perfection.
Great mannerisms and perfect voice, BUT THE EYEBROWS WERE TOO SHORT!
What bothers me about Loial is he is way too small, he needs to be at least 4 feet taller.
as a non reader he became and instant favourite. can't he be the dragon reborn? xD i just love him!!!!
"Tell me again rand" was another good writing example of presenting how things have been going without showing it.
Loial totally copied micheal Kramer and I couldn't be happier. Most accurate book portrayal yet, despite the so so costume.
Absolutely agree with everything you said, your preferences and opinions line up with mine exactly.
Loial wasn't terrible but why couldn't they make him the proper size? it isn't hard. how is that guy supposed to wreck trollocks?
@@tom4115 Because upping his size would mean applying CG to him on a lot of shots which would then necessitate cutting him from a lot of scenes. Same reason he doesn't have super emotive ears and why Game of Thrones basically cut out the direwolves..
So they went with a really big guy.
He's a young Ogier, others that only have to appear for a scene or two can be made bigger.
@@robbybevard8034 there are so many short actors playing tall characters it really isn't hard. tom hardy played Bane is one example, Loial isn't even a main character. and if they were too lazy to even use simple camera tricks at the very least get an actually big person to play the role. A human sized Loial is so dumb. Imagine this guy going with Gaul to shut the waygate lol and carrying Gaul back. Unless Gaul in the show is a hobbit that aint happening. I guess they've ruined every other character why NOT make Gaul a hobbit.
I haven’t read the books or have anything spoiler. My current theory is I’m stuck between NyNeave or Egwyne being the dragon. At first I thought Rand was after the door smash but Loial going on about him being the red haired people in Two Rivers I was like “oh ok yup Rands dad was definitely a badass warrior, are Rand and Egwyne gonna become an Aes Sedai Warder team and NyNeave is the dragon???” Then Perrin for me is just giving me everything I wish Jacob black would have.
SPOILER:
As per the books, the Dragon is alawys reborn as a male destined to save the world and break it (since the male channeler madness)
the show said only men could be dragons from what i understood tho
I think there should power balance in the magic world. Considering All channelers are women and men channeler goes mad after challenging. I think Dragon reborn can channel without going mad, and people are afraid Dragon reborn going mad. so I think it will be men not women.
My best friend hasn't read the books and has almost the exact same theory as you and this warms my book nerd heart so much!!
I thought Daniel said in the first episode review they don’t know and it could either be a man or a woman? If going on the assumption it has to be a man I’d say they’re pushing hard in the show for me to think it’s Matt but nahh he’s a mess but I don’t think the Dragon, but from what I’ve seen so far I think it’s going to be very much a “road to hell paved with good intentions” scenario for whoever it is. ETA: if Nynaeve isn’t the dragon I’d put money down the road she’s running one of the colours or ends up on the Amyrlin Seat.
Look. Loial is 90% true to character.
And it isn't the hair. I could take the hair. It's the Ogier being head to head on horseback characters, and their.. uh... expressive ears.
Those are the biggest issues I have with the character.
But his... his Ogier style talking style, his character, I fucking LOVE that. He was so perfect as Loial
Yeah, ogier are bigger than trollicks but peaceful and very hard to anger.
@@tyrvinodinson9790 I really imagine them as a somewhat more serous version ofJohn Bauer's trolls - big nose, big ears, massive but generally friendly;
I wasn't too thrilled about Loial's costuming at first either, but as soon as Hammed started speaking as him I did tear up, because yeah, that's 100% Loial!! His voice reminded me so much of the audiobooks and Hammed's performance is just so charming and wonderful... I love him...
I never listened to the audiobooks and i wasn't thrilled with the costuming either, but when he started talking i loved it. My first thought was that this is how i always inagined Loial, huge and super nice to everyone
Honestly, its just the hair. It just looks like it's glued on his head, and hides his ears, which are so imporatnt to show his emotions in the book. However. the actor got EVERYTHING right about him
@@stevenhedge2850 I kind of get that it could be hard to do the whole ear thing, but i hope they try.
The look may be a off for Loial but damn the character in my head was what i saw on screen...an amazing job by Hammed
Doesn't he seem too small to anyone? Love the characterization though, more of a cgi or editing issue? Should he be bigger or am I misremembering?
When I first read Eye of the World, my friend told me that I had to pay attention to every detail because EVERYTHING IS SET UP! Something l really appreciate about this series is their way to use the camera and cinematography to foreshadow and set up certain big plot points. Like Rand just looking at the Karaethon cycle or Padan Fain lurking in the crowd in a wide shot without calling too much attention to it. It seems like Rafe and co. are using cinematography to pay homage to Mr. Jordan's "small and seemingly insignificant things are actually set up for huge things" writing technique. I am really here for it.
Also Lan's conversation with Stepin as they're looking into a MIRROR and discussing a warder's bond with their Aes Sedai. I won't be more specific than that to avoid spoilers. But I said to my wife "OOOoooooh. I love that, but you won't understand why for another few seasons."
How can you possibly get that??? They have gotten so many details just flat out wrong, from minor to major.
Example 1: in the great hunt Nyneave is musing on how Lan is an excellent woodsman and tracker, and while she herself was trained well there was no chance she could ever sneak up on him.
Example 2: it takes more power to break a shield then to hold it, and Logain is FAR more powerful than Nyneave.
Example 3: Thom is described as having a rich voice and a broad mustache.
Example 4: All the Aes Sedai are said to have Ageless faces. Instead they all look like grumpy spinsters.
Example 5: Saidar and Saidin are bound to the soul, not the body. It is not men who corrupt Saidin it is Saidin that corrupts men. Even the most bitter reds know this.
Example 6: Lan is stoic and austere, and he is unbelievably competent. He would not cry. In fact, Nyneave’s quest to overcome her own fear and anger mirrors his acceptance of hope and love from her. He would NEVER have an outward display of any emotion that wasn’t either love towards Nyneave or rage towards his enemies.
And the Elves of Lothorien never went to Helms Deep, the Hobbits were not given their Barrow Blades by Strider at Weathertop, Faramir was never tempted by the Ring, Aragorn never doubted himself to be King of Gondor, Saruman wasn't stabbed in the back to death by Wormtongue, Aragorn was not given Anduril right before the Paths of the Dead.
Film adaptions get details wrong all the time. But for me they still get the vibe and style good enough. I feel the WoT show gets the vibe and style down enough to make me happy.
@@Finnergans Yes, they get details wrong... but the WOT show has gotten details wrong, characters wrong, major plot points wrong, etc.
There's a limit. A few slip ups here or there or necessary changes are fine, just look at the first few seasons of GoT... but WoT is just totally off base at this point.
Fair enough I guess. I still like it tho. You know what would be sick? Having the full cast make WoT audiobooks like a radio drama with music, sound effects, the whole bit. That way the story is full Jordan, but with the big production budget! I'd buy that.
Love the dedication Daniel! Can always count on you even after having those surgeries hope you’re feeling ok 👍🏼 and don’t force criticism if you’re not feeling it, fell in love with this channel for your honest opinions ♥️✊🏼
I enjoyed the comments matching the themes of the episode, no need to apologize for it being dark. I really appreciated you being vulnerable with your real life experiences. With the smart writing choices and the brilliant acting this was my favorite episode so far; the whole series is building. I love it!