The Wheel of Time™ Failed. Here's Why.
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2022
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I am not here to hate. Actually, it’s the opposite. I think the Wheel of Time is awesome. I read the first couple of books and found them enchanting, fun, and full of imagination. The purpose of this video is to explore in intense detail why the show is substandard. It fails not just as an adaptation, but as a season of television. I want to judge the show as if the books never existed. I want to figure out why the writing in this show so often lacks purpose and drive. (For the record, I do think the show is a very bad adaptation of the source material, but that’s not criticism alone.) All successful adaptations differ from their source to some degree. I’m far more interested in analyzing the lazy writing that consumes this show. But before doing that, I have to explain the biggest single adaptational change that ruined the show, that proved an insurmountable issue from beginning to end.
#thewheeloftime #videoessay - Розваги
I don't understand the video. You didn't start with the history of cinema so I am a bit lost.
I’m just supposed to fill in the gaps from Early Cinema (1894-1904) to present day? I am still waiting for the 960-part 15 second essay on why SpongeBob is a great show.
Because there are no beginnings nor endings to the turning of cinema. But this was A shitty beginning.
Tbh, I found the lack of an explanation of how this show is a critique of capitalism to be the biggest problem with understanding the video.
@@Luinedhel That was flamin' good comment ya goat kisser !
Hey guys, today we're gonna talk about why The Wheel of Time failed.
Part 1: Early civilizations (4000 BCE)
"Vehicular manslaughter wouldn't make Sam a better character"
I'm sorry but I really need some character justification for why Sam didn't drive Frodo to Mordor on his Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
The eagles took it.
There is a perfect reason to this: the Fellbeasts are known to drive monster trucks, which are capable of smashing regular vehicles.
Patriarchy
Sam doesn't have a driver's license.
Yeah, vehicular manslaughter would make Sam a time traveler or possibly even a multiverse traveler. Would have definitely added to the character.
I really think JJ Abrams has a lot to answer for when it comes to modern TV and film storytelling with his whole “mystery box” schtick.
if anything the people that created JJ Abrams and keep employing him are the cultural criminals of this age.
they should not be walking free.
Tropes and storytelling devices aren't inherently bad. I haven't seen this show, but judging from this video alone, there's more wrong with it than just a poor attempt at an Abrams-esque mystery box.
The mystery box Schlick is good if it has payoff. Unfortunately the most common use is ‘oh look a cool mystery’ which is never addressed again
@@MarK-tf4hp that's because writing mystery boxes is easy. Revealing what the actual mystery is hard, especially if you want it to be satisfying.
That's a good way to put it. The literary trope is easy enough to accomplish, but giving it substance is not so much.
It's like writing an action scene, you can just have a choreographer come in and make something cool or you could spend hours and hours writing a meaningful action scene where you can genuinely say the scene couldn't just be removed without impacting the characters and story.
The tropes are cool and can definitely add a lot to the story, the problem is more when people start using them without thinking about why or how they were used originally
The book starts with the perspective of the Two Rivers kids, and all these outsiders coming into their lives. We don’t trust them like Rand, Egwene and co do not trust them-and it works!
When Rand and Egwene argue and are overheard by Moiraine (about not trusting her), it’s uncomfortable BECAUSE we the readers don’t know if she is trustworthy.
In the book, Moiraine tells them, “The Dark One wants you, and I will kill you before I let him have you.” Doesn’t sound like a friend, does she? Yet all that is gone when WE know she is there to help and is trying to save the world!
The moment they chose to tell the story from Moiraine’s perspective, the whole thing fell apart.
That's one of my favorite things about the first few books. We realize later that what Moraine did was for their good and she couldn't explain everything.
I forgot about this pressure until you recounted it. Anyone could've been a dark friend. Truly felt different in the show. I guess that's why they had to add Perrin's dead "wife."
Yeah, if they wanted a mystery for the show, it could have been "what does this mysterious magic lady want, really, and is she a good guy or secretly a villain?"
@@calebmauer1751, 1000% agree. They managed to make a _far less_ compelling story than the original material.
@@calebmauer1751 Want mystery? Tar Valon itself is full of them. For the first book? WHY THEM? Why does Dark one want them, what makes them special? Because just being Ta'veren doesn't explain it, not until you undestand the trio way down the story. And then there's the darkfriend problem. Anyone can betray you, anyone can be DF. The suspense is there, no need for mystery.
The Wheel of Time had one FATAL flaw. It wasn’t Morbius, the best film in history, available now to see in theatres!
Morb on down to your local cinemaplex to experience Michael, the Living Vampire
@@pach6678 my name is Michael so I thought you were making a threat against me, if you dare move against me my plans will unfold and your mother shall be brought into the discussion
@@michaellolel9008 No I was talking about beloved cinema protagonist Michael Morbius
@@pach6678 you mean the best character in the history of cinema correct? 🤨
It was also woke PC garage
You keep referring to Frodo as a stereotypical "chosen one". I was under the impression that Frodo is in no way special aside from his being a Hobbit, making him naturally less susceptible to the corruption of The Ring because Hobbits are not as greedy as the other races. The entire point of both The Hobbit and LotR is that Bilbo and Frodo are simply Hobbits and are in no way superior to their peers. Sam carrying Frodo up Mount Doom is a blatant reminder to the reader that Frodo is flawed just as the other characters are, and his ultimate corruption as he enters the Cracks of Doom exemplifies the fact that Frodo was not predestined or chosen to be the Ring-Bearer that would destroy The Ring.
I noticed that too. Frodo isn't a chosen one trope--he's not even the main protagonist (according to Tolkien, it's Samwise). A better example of the chosen one trope would be Harry Potter.
@@templeofthesmilingjackalop9860 Tolkien said a lot of things about LotR that I would consider inherently untrue. He outright denied any amount of implicit meaning in all of his works, completely ignoring the impact his experiences in life had on his writing. On one hand it is frustrating to see an author blatantly ignore the depth of their own work, on the other it allows us to have conversations on the different ways we view his works. I also don't think Tolkien ever said that Sam was the protagonist, he simply said that Sam was the hero of the story. It's pretty obvious that LotR has no main protagonist throughout the entire book, which is fitting considering how the Red Book of Westmarch was written in universe. All of the writers and editors wrote themselves to be the main protagonist. Sam becomes the main protagonist of his and Frodo's story-line around when they enter Shelob's lair because Frodo suffered severe dissociation due to the burden of The Ring and likely could not recall what happened. The narrative shift from focusing on Frodo to focusing on Sam is a heavy handed reminder to the reader that Aragorns and Gandalfs do not have to be the heroes of every story. I would say that Sam is the hero of his and Frodo's story, I would not say that Sam is the protagonist of his and Frodo's story.
Either way though, Frodo is definitely not a chosen one.
@@ToomanyFrancis I think within the spiritual dimension of Tolkien's worldbuilding, there is an argument to be made that Frodo was divinely chosen to be the Ringbearer and that Providence/the unseen hand of Eru Illuvatar orchestrates the chain of events that leads him to become the Ringbearer, but I would also agree that he's not a traditional Chosen One in the same way that Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter are
@@ToomanyFrancis Wasn’t he uniquely suited to carry the Ring? I thought that even Sam couldn’t do it.
@@NarfiRef No
They did Thom so very dirty. And... why? He's the character who actually has a reason to give you random exposition about history and stories and songs!
+10 to the writers caring more about Stepin than the adapted characters.
Thom was also a positive male role model who offered a counterpoint to Moiraine. And he was her actual love interest.
Two things these showrunners couldn't have in their fanfiction version of WoT.
Well he had to step-in to so they could kill someone. You know.... That's what these writers think makes a good story, characters dying. Like In GOT. Get it Stepin had to step in to die so we understand our characters could die at any moment.
@@IamVendelI'd forgotten Thom was Moiraine's love interest! That... was, now that you mention it, a cool element to the story, and it being removed in favor of a shallow "girls can't be friends without being lesbians!" is really irritating.
Good point. He would be a mean, colorful Exposition machine in a very natural way and also help to develop all characters, from the Two Rivers folk to Moiraine as well as help to develop the Two Rivers folk as a fatherly character who we at the same time kind of feel may be too good to be true and maybe a darkfriend or even Forsaken. THAT would have been so good and increased the tension!
Like.. "Thom... how come you know so much about the Power and channeling...?"
horses are actually very good at finding their own way home ;) in fact, it's actually kind of a pain in the ass to train some trail horses because if they don't feel like sticking around by your side once you've gotten off, you have to do the walk of shame back home, too
The part of the aging up that gets me is Rafe said they did it to avoid being compared to a CW teen drama...and then injected all the nonexistent teen drama anyway with pumping up the 'Perrin has a thing for Egwene' thing that's maybe a couple paragraphs in the first book into a thing.
Holy shit that’s an apt point
I couldn’t pick what it was I just thought it was incompetence but yeah It’s weird the clash of expecting an aged up gritty story and getting teen drama that’s also just shitting on the source
That wasnt even a thing go bck an dissect the lines its a platonic love...like that of brother and sister nothi g more nothing less. Perrin is literally lotalty and loves all his people he consideres egwene as family because rand likes her and would accept another if mat had a gf too.
Man, that scene was so unnecessary its not even funny.
They take the situation with Mat being recast in the worst possible direction at every single turn.
I've seen some of the CW superhero stuff - they take prominent white male lead shows and wring them through a heavy feminist lens all whilst shoe horning diversity and inclusion with random non canon LGBT relationships and mass race swapping to create melodramatic utterly non-canon adaptations of said males often not even featuring that much in shows named after them to instead emphasise the female side cast with screen time and mass power ups galore (iris was made a speedster and led team flash at one point and Felicity was most Mary Sue character I've ever seen on tv as best hacker in world, CEO of Palmer tech with zero experience, cures paralysis and even nukes a town to save the world to no consequence even being forgiven by its only survivor lol).
This should could be more CW short of infamous trope of taking white red heads and making each and every single one of them black but then they've been accused of that with Aviendha so I guess they don't even get a pass on that lol. Otherwise it's all there - neutered male lead, random gay romance on screen, fan fiction romance and melodrama, race swapping, Mary Sues and naturally the show runners tell us they're super fans despite almost zero canon accuracy. It's a bad bad show - CW level bad yet on 100x the budget. There's no saving it now, only ones preening over season 2 are the weirdos on Twitter who writes often in all caps and "ship" characters or those wanting clicks as pre-existing WoT content creators wanting to piggy back extra interest via show (my heart goes out to them).
@@t.hussain921 +Are you kidding? That scene was one of the best! captured all of the emotions so well. Did you miss how connected Moiraine and Suan are?
Not including the prologue to *_The Eye of the World_* in the show means the whole mystery of "Who is the dragon reborn" falls completely flat, because no one watching is shown who or what a "dragon" even is. We are told they are dangerous, yes, but that is no where as effective as *showing* us how dangerous they are. The prologue needed to be the opening of the show in order to inform the viewer that the dragon is the most dangerous entity in this fictional universe and to make the viewer realize that finding the dragon reborn is very important.
@Loki Jaxson there’s side content? We talking like webisodes or what?
@Loki Jaxson Except those really nice and short episodes are canon to the books, but not to the show. Someone who didn't read the books and only watched the show will still be very confused. They mention saidin and saidar in the short lore videos and then act like the One Power is not split at all in the show. Lews Therin looks completely different in the first Origins episode than in the actual show. I recommend the shorts for the readers, but not for those who are trying to understand the show without reading the books, which you'd think it's the opposite of what you want from side content lore videos for the show.
@Loki Jaxson "They are really good though."
I think they're better than any of the actual episodes. At least they made me think, "oh, that's kinda interesting to some miniscule degree" once or twice.
I do agree they didn't do a good job of showing what the Dragon means in this universe (and well, I don't think they did a good job of getting this universe across to viewers in the the first place).
However, from the non-book readers who I know who watched the show (which amounts to like 5 people), all of them actually were pretty drawn into the mystery of who the Dragon is and it worked. From a book-reader perspective, it was a whatever, but from my small sample size, the show worked in that regards. My general impression is that non-book readers liked this show a lot more than book-readers, because book-readers know so much more of what this world really is, but the show did a good enough job of getting it across to non-book readers to get them invested.
There are 2 scenes that EotW NEEDS to set up the rest of the series, and they ignored both. You need the prologue with Lews having killed everybody he ever loved, and you need the climax with Rand swooping in at the eleventh hour and singlehandedly annihilating an army that otherwise would have overrun the all of Shienar and probably most of Cairhien and Andor.
For the rest of the series, every single interaction Rand has with anybody save the Aiel is framed by this idea that the Dragon is both the most terrifying person alive, and humanity's only hope. If you don't show us the reasons people feel that way, none of Rand's story is going to work.
The frustrating part about the mystery surrounding who the Dragon Reborn is in the show is that a similar mystery is sort of already outlined in the first book. When Moiraine tells the party that the Dark One is looking for a boy the same age as Rand, Matt, and Perrin, all three are worried it might be them at some point. Matt is almost convinced at a certain point. Even by the end of the first book, Rand hasn't entirely put two and two together. He knows he can channel, but the realization that he's doomed to the Dragon's fate doesn't hit him until the start of the second.
My point is, there was a perfectly good way for the showrunners to introduce mystery surrounding the identity of the Dragon, but they decided to throw out the world's rules and do their own thing.
Well that’s simply because they wanted to run with the whole narrative that the dragon could be a boy a girl, non-binary, a thing… lol no, in the books the dragon was most obviously going to be a male. 🤦🏾♂️
41:07 The whole Perrin among the Tinkers is opposite from the books. He’d already met a mentor named Elias and started on the path to become a Wolfbrother, and he was always wary of 100% pacifism because of his experience with Trollocs and other baddies. Sure he questions the white-hot rage when he fights, but he’s still ready to defend himself or others. He’s always been my favorite charachter and the way Rafe annihilated him is disgusting.
Lol… Thankyou I’m here after season 1 and I’m confused… I read these on the late 90’s to 2000’s so it’s been a while but I clearly remember the detailed Elias part. He let them “find” him at his campfire as they were lost and hungry.
Perrin is my favorite also. Let's be honest though Jordan didn't do Perrin justice either- he was left out of so many books. I do like the show adaptation to add the fact he killed his wife by accident. This makes more sense why he is hesitant to kill and has a hatred of his axe. I think Jordan was going more for a political view and metaphor of the Vietnam conflict in Perrin and his internal conflict- this would be difficult to display on screen so I thought that was an interesting choice. Overall I think the show is ok - I still think Perrin is good in the show on par with the books but he doesn't get the time in either the books or the show he deserves.
They're trying so hard to create the next Game of Thrones, but Game of Thrones's secret to success was faithfully adapting the books. As soon as they started making big changes just for drama, the series sunk like a rock to the point that nobody will buy the DVD sets. Wheel of Time started in the dumpster and quickly set it on fire.
GOT didn't even sunk. Even when they ran out of source material, people still watched regardless and the ratings only increased. Even after the finale, GOT is still the best fantasy show and every streaming platform is failing to replicate that success. WOT has no excuse since it has a completed source material and a bigger budget than GOT.
The game of thrones was NOT FATHFULL TO THE BOOKS. Sorry for caps but perhaps you should read the books before you comment. If you have read the books then you know I am telling the truth.
@@bobh2581 Yet GOT has the excuse of incomplete source material, and even then it was way better than WOT lol
@@bobh2581 I have read the books and I know they made some changes. The books are more like political thrillers than big, dumb action movies. Season 1 was pretty much identical to the books. Season 2-4 got the main story beats. Seasons 5-8 went totally off the rails.
@@Yoursoulismine814 It went off rails when there was no more source material. It was pretty good up to that.
Which is actually understandable, since not even George seems able to finish the story he started, since he has been writting winds of winter for more 10 years and the release is nowhere in sight.
"Vehicular Manslaughter wouldn't make Sam a better character" is an incredible quote thanks
Vehicular manslaughter wouldn't make Sam a better character but it would make LOTR a lot more interesting.
It didn't work for Matthew Broderick
@@westvirginiaglutenfreepepp7006 I think you mean the voice of Simba.
Im just gonna say it. Amazon - adapting Lotr and WoT. Showcases Amazon cannot make Fantasy Series. Period.
@@somerandomchannel382 Vox Machina
I'm also very disappointed they didn't add the Lews Therin chapter that's at the very beginning of Book 1. That was such a compelling chapter because here's is the guy who according to legend won an astounding victory against the Dark One, but when you're reading it it really doesn't seem like a victory at all . and even now at the tail end of Book 3 I'm extremely curious about what truly happened during the Madness
Oooooh. Is this your first time reading? There is darkness in your future, and cool swords!! 😂 Don't give up when it gets slow. I recommend an audio book if you're having a hard time. ❤
@@yourmomsaccount69 I’m reading for the first time and read to book three. What book do you think I should read to before I watch season two? Also I love cool swords so hopefully we get those in the tv show…
@@memeszorp5740 I know you did not ask me, but I would recommend just going forward with reading the books in general. The TV-series is quite far removed from the story told in the books.
The flashes and hints we get of the past are some of the most interesting parts of the series. And they removed a big one which is just sad. It's not the best one ofc but still.
As for what truly happened during the time of madness I mean you already know what happened from the 1st book. Malw Aes Sedai went crazy and killed everyone and wrecked everything. I think Lews Therin and his hundred companions went crazy almost immediately although I'm not sure, that's just a theory. Others would have taken time as there's evidence of male Aes Sedai being active and helping during the time of madness
I loved the first bit. It would have been a bit confusing but that would have been easily solved by some moiraine or village person monologue.
Dude, you're being nice, and I can appreciate that, I guess. I absolutely hated everything they did. Talentless hacks taking on a 15 book series they had no business even TRYING to make. Luckily they ruined it really quickly instead of dragging it out for 8 seasons like some other show.
it's greenlit for a second season, so they got another chance to sodomise the series
@@dihyaneverforget5163 it's greenlit for a third 😂
he is simply being fair not nice. you are simply emotinally biased probably cuz you love the books
@@riynu7774 i've never read the books and the show looks like complete shit. Everything about it looks bad.
You talking about the vampire diaries or somthing?
My favorite saying about this show is “Them not knowing who the chosen one is, is like the Catholic Church not knowing who Jesus is.”
Reading this on Good Friday no less, is epic af 😂 😭 best. Quote. Ever.
It is so weird that studios will make a big deal of and spend money on adapting existing stories, only to be ashamed of that material. The industry's inability to take risks on unknown or new IP really hurts their ability to tell stories
It's even bigger than that. Most of the studios don't bother a lot with these adaptations. Maybe the show will get significantly better in season 2, if it happens. Other than that, a lot of these studios don't know how to use the source material to adapt them or the writers are clueless to how they should adapt it. The wheel of time has 14 books and it should be split into 12 seasons or so to justify its length. 1 season should have 4 books.
If any one knows how to do good adaptations today, it's marvel. They adapt the specific comic book stories to make them better on film and even recreate some of the famous scenes in comics( Thor Love and thunder Falligar the behemoth, it's the best one yet and it's gorgeous). Even more so, that they have adapted one of the most reviled spider man stories into one of the best ones( No way home). It's how adaptation should be done and a necessary lesson for storytelling if you want to adapt.
Even Moon knight has a good consistent pilot( and plot) and makes you care for steven grant, an imaginary personality made by marc under traumatic stress. Cgi is shaky but i really like the acting and screenwriting in it.
@@avanishdutta2658 As Normtrooper said though, they don't take risks on NEW IP. Marvel had to work it's way up to it's present level of creative freedom. They've been making movies and shows about Marvel properties for a long time and it's proven to be a near-guaranteed money maker, that's why it gets all the leeway. The issue is studios are too risk averse to allow creative freedom for something new to the screen like Wheel of Time. Although who knows if that was even an issue for the show.
The thing is, you really can't just adapt the book line by line to a screenplay. Just imagine all the endless luggage scenes in the latter books! Adaptation is a necessity.
Unfortunately whoever adapted the WOT into a TV show seems to have very little love for the source material, failing to capture the spirit of the show. They even missed the dichotomy of the male and female powers, which was an _important_ plot point. It wasn't even that one was more powerful than the other, but that they were _different._ One of the later books has Rand and Nynaeve linking and the latter discovers to her horror that male weaving was like fighting a storm.
@@avanishdutta2658 hell no. Sorry dude, as a comic nerd growing up. The mcu are decent films, but have nothing to do with the comic stories. Names only. Iron man was the best, everything else was a let down.
Thor is the worst, its just Hemsworth in cosplay. Thor in the comics is a bad ass, mcu Thor is an insult. Now, instead a Beta Ray, we get jane foster, a selfish character everybody hated. Now sony makes a nostalgia bate that wasnt very good, but had characters people love, the old spidermen and their villians. Now its time for "the message" with more awful characters.
@@ardendragoon Marvel comics always had "Messages" and social/political commentary. You can't complain about the movies doing stuff the comics always did.
And those old Spider-Men movies were hardly any truer to the comics than the MCU, by your own logic.
16:30 Jordan is very explicit that the White Tower takes ANY woman who has some strength in the Power, and even if they’re too week to do more than light a candle they still train them to bind them to the Aes Sedai. The Amyrlin Seat was a fisherman’s daughter, for Pete’s sake. They just wanted to add class drama because it’s trendy. Just BS on top of BS that makes a weaker story.
If I remember right even if the girl is too weak to do anything substantial with the power, they still train her so she doesn't end up killing herself trying to channel
That cut to Brandon Sanderson shouting "WHAT ABOUT MY SON?" fucking killed me. xD
Haven’t watched this show at all but I am definitely nodding and agreeing because you are wearing glasses
the glasses are the key to it all
@@ManCarryingThing do remember to keep them on when you inevitably make a 4 hour essay talking about the anti-capitalist themes in SpongeBob.
I was wondering why I agree with the guy despite me too not havent seen the show, but yeah, you called it. Its the glasses.
He looks earnest too
@@asafoetidajones8181 And as we all know, is it important to be Ernest.
"We have 7 hours to cover a 600+ page book."
"Let's add in some bad fanfiction, throw in chunks of the second book, try to convince people that the books weren't worth reading via how badly we execute this, and if we're lucky, the series will be cancelled before our severing threads vital for future plotlines bites us in the rear."
Bad fanfiction is the best way to describe this show.
@@RocketeerAndRoll Not really, fan fiction while usually bad is at least the labor of fans, a word I wouldn't use to describe the people involved in this show.
It's fine, any lingering plot threads can just have some Balefire dumped on them until the story only resembles the books by the location names, or it ceases existing altogether
Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan's wife are both in charge of the show. I think a lot of the changes they made will make sense later, and some of them make sense now. They have to cut corners and speed things up. You can't deny that. And they CERTAINLY can't cleanly follow the books and have a season for each book and have it match up perfectly.
@@connorgregory5625 but what happens if we are wheeling around time and such and they end up doing a "Game of Thrones", where the show's wheel is moving faster than the book's wheel and then they have to make up an eighth season that (just like GoT did) disappoints everybody because it creates a divergence in time where the plot in the show's ending sucks and the book ending is more based on tastes, but in either case, being that GoT is a historically accurate book, now history will be wrong in one of the timelines!
Amazon paid through the roof to have the rights to a very successful book series that defines some of the best fantasy writing on Earth. All they had to do was FOLLOW THE SOURCE MATERIAL. As a reader of the book series, I was more than disappointed.. insulted more like it. I won't even waste my time on the second season, because they already ruined it.
I’m sooooo glad I stopped 5 minutes into the first episode. I said I would give it a chance if the internet said it turned around. Thank god
@@MyBiPolarBearMax The intro should have told you all you needed to know. I think I saw 10 seconds
I knew a lot would have to change and be omitted, considering that the story is only like 3 years chronologically, and filming something like that would just be physically impossible, but I was still just awestruck at how horrible it was. I had to stop partway through ep 1 because I was so disappointed, and I lightly skimmed other eps just to see how bad it would get. And when they went to Tar Valon instead of Caemlyn I just gave up. I've seen many awful adaptations in my life, but WoT was the worst. I don't know how anyone could look at one of the greatest fantasy epics of all time, with a deep world, fleshed out characters, complex and interconnected plot lines, and a crystal clear depiction of the world, and decide to just shit all over it. It's been over a year and a half, and even just thinking about it makes me so damn mad. It was excruciating to see
@@orinblank2056simple. A lot of people weather it’s from gen X or millennials they want to “leave their own mark” on the world. They can’t let go of their egos and I mean that in the sense that the believe strongly and mistakenly that they are they’re egos. When creating art, it should be enough to make that thing precisely as is when depicting when someone else’s piece of art. When creating your own art with no references except your own experiences (I mean not designing something) you must know yourself, deeply, very deeply. It’s why the greatest artists are never depicted as great during their time (Van Goh, Picasso) and although the rule isn’t always true (I would treat it as a 80/20 rule) for the most part it’s accurate.
Agreed..
My criticism of Wheel of Time is that they focused too much on the (sexual) relationships of the characters rather than the actual story. It hurt the story more than it helped. Without all the "I love you" shit, it would have left 10 minutes each episode for more story, allowing viewers to become more invested in the characters.
The big problem was how they made most of Rand's story fretting about Egwene...
Egs: I'm breaking up with you.
Rand: I'm sad, but okay.
Egs: We're still friends, right?
Rand: I'm still hurt, okay?
Perrin: Egs is nice.
Rand: You always loved Egs!
Egs: Let's get back together. You can be my warder.
Rand: Okay. [Sotto voce] I just realized I'm the Dragon Reborn.
Ba'alzamon: Let's break the world and remake it however we want!
Rand: Nah, Egs wouldn't like it.
@@hoi-polloi1863unfortunately Eg is a major part of the books and Rand actually does simp on her and most of what you said as well… 😂
Focused too much on the sexual relationships..? I mean, they just made it up. They are innocent, naive and inexperienced in the books. It ruined their characters from the start.
@@samueldavis5895Rand really never simps for Egwene lmao, they were never truly an item, he wanted to protect her but pretty much once they left the village they mutually drifted apart, there was never any real skin in the game. Rand did more simping for Mat if anything lmao
@@Arthur.H.Studioimagine watching an aged up Harry Potter where Hermione gives Harry a handjob on train ride to Hogwarts
Ron accidentally kills his boyfriend in a potion deal gone bad
and Dumbledore and Snape have a steamy romance scene all in first film 😂
Have I read The Wheel of Time? No.
Have I watched the Amazon show? No.
Am I going to watch this video in one sitting? Absolutely
Obviously, I'm legally bound to encourage you to read the books. We have three different subreddits!
@@Sarsenwood And I'm morally bound to second that encouragement. Seriously, the books are amazing and have very deep and intricate world building.
The books are great.
@@Lttlemoi Oh wow worldbuilding? Oh my gosh that's so cool. I love how every fantasy book nowadays is about complex, thorough, neverending worldbuilding as opposed to great plot and characters. Yay!
@@lukebatchelor717 don’t worry that also have great characters
The issue with Rand and Egwene, is that they took Rand's main motivation of being torn from his roots (Dad not dad, being forced to leave the TR, learning he can channel, learning he is TDR), and are replacing it with "why don't you want me".
He isn't mad at egwene for her wanting to be AS, not really. He is mad at her for willingly leaving her TR self behind, while he is forced to. He also wants to keep her safe.
Instead, they replace it with "I am a jaded dickhead". And then forces us to watch it play put 10 more times.
Great.
Rand's interactions with Egwene in TEotW are pretty awkward and dumb. The show stayed true to that while aging their issues up. I didn't have any problems with this, really, but that's just my opinion.
EXACTLY! I got so mad when they showed the Tam fever dream stuff finally at the end of the season. I was already frustrated that they cut out the core of Rand's character arc for the early series. Finding out that they remembered it, but willfully ignored it in favor of some Degrassi tier bullshittery was a kick to the balls.
@@rhodie9338 it was a terrible reveal to a bad mystery. Real shame they went that route.
@@EtchTheGetch not dumb, naive. He thinks he may be a male channeler pretty early in the book, but even before that, Egwene seems to be jumping to become an AS, as Critical said. That means she would leave forever in his eyes (no matter the story Moiraine told all the villagers). So, once he knows he is potentially the Dragon, he naively assumes that all Aes Sedai will want to gentle him and Egwene wants to join them, she would become the enemy.
@@EtchTheGetch pretty much nails the teenage drama on the head.
Finally, an honest take on this show. It’s bad on it’s own, but it’s a _terrible_ adaptation of the books. And, knowing how the entires series goes, all of the “extra” stuff they added ruins the charm and complexity of the original story. I can’t even hate watch it, it’s that bad. There is zero chance this show won’t get cancelled before the final book.
Feminist propaganda.
@@dakotajones9709 oh my god seriously
@@adora_was_taken Are you kidding me?
@@dakotajones9709 And diversity propaganda to boot. The books gave significant power to females to be fair. But they were white 😂
@@ericbutler739 100%
The spicy scene whit rand and egwene really made me laugh..
In the books rand doesn't do spicy stuff until waaaaaaay later with a certain Aiel... it made me think "wow they could not care less about the books" 😅
Shame, the books is one of the best series i have ever read if not the best
yeah, i think Aviendha was his first
What this show missed out on was how young and inexperienced all the main characters were. All of them grew and matured as the stories stretched. All of the boys should be clean shaven and DON'T GIVE PERRIN A FRICKIN WIFE!!!
He and Egwene got spicy didn’t they? Way later? Like in some magic bubble or something?… guess I should reread them lol
@@samueldavis5895 nope, nothing more then puppy love between them in the books.I dont even think they ever kissed.
The real core of it is that they thought that they could rewrite significant parts of the story while at the same time banking on readers already having read the books and so understanding what's going on. How on Earth does the mystery of the identity of the Dragon work for non-readers? The flashback reveal of Rand's parentage has no meaning to them! They never mention any of the details of the prophecy that make that a confirmation. That really breaks the premise that they made central to the season.
Agreed. This show didn't know what the fuck it was doing. It claimed to be altered for people new to wheel of time, yet showed multiple scenes with absolutely no context whatsoever like you were meant to understand them all.
I've not read any of the books. I assumed they were going for a "they are ALL the dragon reborn" ending, and when Rand'al was so certain, I assumed it was a fakeout. I also though Mat staying behind was a huge plot point if they're ALL the Dragon reborn, and are all needed to seal The Dark one.
Turns out no.
nice try , but you missed the point ! the real core of the failure is their making it pc and woke !
do they explain in the show why it matters who is the dragonborn whatever?
As a reader, I was beginning to fear that Rand wasn't actually the Dragon at some point lmfao.
My man (carrying thing) made fun of video essayists so hard he became one
you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain
the wheel weaves as the wheel wills
Except that in the book there is no such requirement of Chastity. It's just tacked on bulshit to create drama just like Jedi not being able to get married in the prequel trilogy. In the book, even offers to let him become her Warder. Heck, he actually marry to and impregnate one of the Aes Sedai??
I just want to say huge thanks for not spoiling later books. When watching other reviews of shows, they often cite stuff from all over the source material, but you really focused on just the stuff that was immediately relevant. As someone who has only read the first 3 books yet, I really appreciate that :)
I personally hated that Rand and Egwene started to make out in the fist episode! In the book their relationship were platonic and eventually developed into brother sister connection. If they wanted to ship them why not give this relationship a build up? Like, no, they gonna fuck in the first episode, great. Haven't watched till the end of the series, but the waiter is sooo lame
I will give them this, at least Egwene isn't insufferable like she is in the books. At least it's something. Because I can't stand her in the books because of what a self-righteous contemptious b*tch she is to everyone. So that is at least one small mercy.
It's also really awkward, because these scenes made them seem more mature, but in reality, they acted way more childish and immature than their book counterparts.
wouldnt call it platonic hen they were pretty much bethrothed to eachother early on in the books, that grew into a more platonic and brother/sister relationship. but yeah the show... bad
Because Robert Jordan gave his romances build up???
@@foxesofautumn Jordan so far wrote way better romances than Rafe lmao
The reoccurring Brandon Sanderson/Brendan Fraser joke literally made me break this time.
@THIS After the fourth time seeing this, I’m thinking, yeah nah. 😬👎
@@christinearmington But he/she/it never replies to anyone's doubts - they're so mysterious and alluring...Maybe I'll click the link today...
I lost it 😂
I was wandering why almost nobody in the comment section was pointing that out. First time here, came here from Knights Watch and I almost wrote an according comment. Almost.
@@AntonVeliTajan it’s a reoccurring joke in his videos. Every time he says Brandon Sanderson he posts an accompanying photo of Brendan Fraser. I forget it sometimes and then it happens again and it makes me chuckle.
Corenni and Steppen are a symptom of a massive problem that plagues pretty much every fantasy adaptation. The writers don't want to write an adaptation. They want to write their own story but this adaptation is what they've been hired to work on. So what's the compromise? They just write their own story anyway and disguise it as an adaptation when in reality there is little to no attempt to actually follow the source material. The Witcher show is absolutely infested with this problem.
Look, I sympathise with writers out there who want to strike out on their own, but can't because exposure is often more important than their individual skill and effort. I'm an aspiring writer too. I get it. But that *DOES NOT* give you the excuse to just hijack someone else's work for your own purposes. And these changes are so often (not always) extremely damaging to the overall story, and the writers get incredibly angry and defensive when criticised because they think their changes are improvements. It's sheer fucking arrogance. Nothing more.
Add to that for the last 5 years or so creative types have been so deathly afraid of offending anyone that they take no risks and produce a bland and boring product. If your first thought when creating something isn't "will this be interesting and engaging" but instead is "will I be attacked on Twitter for not 100% adhering to their narrative", then creativity is crushed.
I so wanted to like that show as I am a huge WOT fun. However, it turns out to be a bloated funfic; if only the author posessed a modicum of RJ writing talent or imagination...but, alas, he does not. I guess, it can be called "inspired by" instead of "adaptation of"?
The Witcher show writing is fine and captures the essence of the world of the Witcher for the most part. More shows like the Witcher should be acknowledged for their effort. Shows like Wheel of Time, Halo, and soon to be Rings of Power should be shamed for their greed and complete lack of regard for the source material. Lauren Hissrich has done an admiral job. The Witcher is not the show to use as an example.
@@AntiLordblue Sorry but you are just wrong. The majority of Season 2 had nothing to do with the storyline from the books. That's not up to your opinion. Season 1 was okay for the most part.
@@AntiLordblue The thing that gets me is that we have plenty of evidence that respecting the source material is the path to success. E.g. Peter Jackson made a particular point to respect the source materials and as a result the LOTR movies were wildly successful. So people can clearly see this is the correct approach, it's not like they're flailing in the dark here. It's almost like the people creating these new series are trying to fail. It's baffling.
Kerene and Stepin aren't created for the show. They are characters from New Spring, which is a prequel novel and basically an origin story for Moraine and Lan. I don't know why they decided to use them here, since this doesn't relate to what actually happened to them. The main point of all of it seems to be an attempt to show that Warders rarely survive the death of their Aes Sedai, which they clearly failed to get across properly.
Or as I describe it, there were two characters called Kerene and Stepin in New Spring, who had their names used for two new, completely unrelated characters.
Sad, for a second there was a glimmer of hope. The scene with logain…..the voices of past dragons speaking to him…it’s was there, they were so close to getting it……then it all went to shit.
The logain scene had me so insanely hyped. "They are doing it right!" I thought... :(
The writers for the show thought they were a lot smarter than the source material. So they re-wrote it, but they overestimated their ability.
"Hm, I've read the first book and I think we can do better."
"Twist a couple things to make it a bit more contemporary?"
"Yeah. I've decided I'm going to fridge a woman in the first episode."
the source material can't be perfectly adapted into a show. If you think it can, you need to read the books again. They have PLENTY of flaws too.
Agreed. Of course the books weren't really that good. However, decent writers could have pulled a good show out of them.
@@connorgregory5625 that is like saying: you can't perfectly clean your house, so lets not do it at all. MAYBE you cannot perfectly adapt this story into the screen, but you can at least try to stay true to the source material.
@@conelord1984 aside from the worldbuilding and action scenes, the source material isnt all that good. They books are stuffed with filler and repetitive af inner monologues--see all the pages long descriptions of the guys ruminating on how they will never understand women, or the one later on in the series where perrin goes on and on and on about how he's a blacksmith and not a lord.
I can't remember the last time I saw a tv or movie adaptation that quite literally went out of its way to disrespect the source material. I knew Wheel of Time was going to be bad, just not THIS bad.
*cough* The Nightwatch *cough*
@@jezackr3500 that's a whole other can of worms
It's like Rafe Judkins got bullied by someone who was a huge WoT fan and this is the culmination of an improbable, long-con revenge scheme.
@@Degarth LOL that's an interesting theory. Nerdy WoT fans bullying other kids for being into lesser fantasy series(probably Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series or something), so now little Rafe gets his revenge. He really seems to be taking it out on the male characters in particular.
In the books, Lan Mandragoran is depicted as a paragon of masculinity and in the show Lan is depicted as.....well......not.
@@robwalsh9843 Ngl, kinda was a fan of Dragonriders of Pern too, not just WoT.
Though GOD they'd fuck up Pern if they made an adaptation...
In the books, the Aes Sedai were growing desperate, pulling in literally every woman and girl they could find who had the talent. They theorized that, due to all the male magic users going crazy and needing to be killed, humanity was literally breeding the ability to use magic out of their own lineages. As a result, fewer and fewer Aes Sedai joined the White Tower every generation. The actual hierarchy in the White Tower was your power level, not the status you were born into. The poorest peasant girl with strong talent warranted far more respect than the grandest duchess with little ability. So the whole, "Nyeh, you guys are elitist, nyeh" thing with Nyneave makes zero sense.
Also, she just randomly heals death as an untrained, unskilled wielder of the One Power, the ONE AND ONLY thing that is unhealable. Later in the book series, she literally learns how to heal people cut off from the One Power, and it's mind-blowing because the solution was so deceptively simple, that no one had tried it before. Only death remains unhealable. Not so in the show, where they needed yet another "girl boss" moment.
Not to mention that the Aes Sedai purposefully sacrifice thousands of men fighting Trollocs only to swoop in and start wiping them all out because, once again, girl power. They castrated Rand so many times in the show, that it honestly didn't surprise me when they took out the scene of him hyped up on the Power from the Eye of the World, literally teleporting into the Trolloc army and disintegrating it with lightning and pure destruction. Nope, instead he has a conversation and complains while the women do all the work. Perrin's a weak-willed failure who has absolutely nothing in common with book Perrin, Mat's a psycopathic thief who barely cares about anyone around him and has zero redeeming scenes, and Rand spends the ENTIRE show screeching at everyone about trust and paranoia.
Lan is supposed to be the stoic, incredibly dangerous yet loyal father figure for Rand, who teaches him how to fight, and shows him the difference between being a soldier and being a man, and when you should be one or the other. Instead he barely does anything aside from kill a few Trollocs and tear open his shirt crying about some random Warder. So much plot was cut from the show to fit the 8 episodes, and yet we spend an entire episode following said random Warder whose Aes Sedai died, as he gets despressed and kills himself, none of which was in the book.
By aging up the characters they strip away their character arcs, their youthful naivety, and their moral purity. Rand and Egwene sleep together in the first episode! Do you want to know when Rand first sleeps with another woman in the books? Several books later, years into the story's timeline, after essentially conquering half the kingdoms on the continent. He loses himself in a bout of passion with a woman (not Egwene, he's never in a relationship with her in the books), and afterwards, is so ashamed of his lack of self control and tarnishing of her honor, that he tries to get married to her right away, to avoid scandal.
There is so much more to complain about, from the butchering of the characters and plot, to just the overall mediocre quality of the show in general.
TL;DR: The show is bad, read the books.
Also the Aes Sedai rarely marry, and effectively never have kids
I mean I'm sorry but what you're saying here is a demonstration that you have no fucking idea whatsoever about the books. One if the big themes of the books is that AS aren't doing any recruitment at all. And that is one of the main reasons (or consequences) of them being in a downward spiral.
And they definitely are turning people away. Lots of them. We have the Kin, remember? Nynaeve's mentor may have misunderstood why she was turned away, or lied about it, or Nynaeve could have misunderstood.
As someone who's read the whole series 3 times (and am currently cunning a D&D style campaign set after the books) I went into the show with an open mind, expecting changes but giving it a chance despite the negative reception it got. I physically couldn't finish the series. Not that I didn't have the time, but it hurt to watch. I know they can't make a 1:1 copy but it felt like they were deliberately trying to change as much as they could just for the sake of changing it. I honestly feel bad for Harriet; she probably sold the rights to her late husband's work in hopes of it reaching a new generation of fantasy lovers, and instead they're spitting over Jordan's legacy. I would honestly sue them for defamation if I could.
I had a similar experience. While there were *occasional* flashes of the real WoT, most of the show was just disappointing. I kept on watching, thinking "The next episode can redeem everything... there's still time!" But I was mistaken. Eventually I found out that the writing team was deliberately playing out their own ideas about current social squabbles instead of thinking about RJ's work. Ah, well.
It was very important for the ideologically possessed individuals writing the series that they insert the following, interracially mixed people where it does not make sense, an openness to homosexuality, and although female authority exists in the book to make it petty, tyrannical, and to erase any notion of a male having a heroic moment especially wherein one is the primary savior of the girl. The series hit me as a propaganda piece for feminism.
As a newcomer to the Wheel of Time framchise, i am glad i avoided the show. I will stick to reading the books. Already finished Eye of the World and am currently on The Great Hunt. So good! Whike i was initially hesistabt due to my initial hesitancy with the gender politics themes (i wrongly assumed it was just going to be about misandry) but i am glad i was wrong. The world building and the lore within the story was so well done and the gender issue was so perfectly executed lore wise and stoeywise that it all worked seamlessly. Okus, the central theme of cooperation between the sexes works so well that i regretted my initial doubts. Such a great book series
@@orboakin8074 That is how I would advise you continue; stick to the books, avoid the show as though it were the Pit of Doom itself. Also, a slight head's up: the latter half of books 3 and book 4 is where the Wheel of Time truly becomes THE Wheel of Time,. The middle few books are a bit try (I had to power my way through Crossroads of Twilight and Path of Daggers on all 3 of my rereads, not that they're bad it's just that they're rather uneventful) but once you get through those and stick till the end, it'll change your perspective on many things in our world. That was my experience, at least :)
@@jureb2278 thanks for the heads-up, friend👍👍
I liked your 4-hour essays more when they were 20-60 seconds.
But I'm very interested to hear your take on this. I'm even more interested to hear comparisons to Morbius and your view on should I watch Wheel of Time Season 1 or Morbius 5 times in a row.
Morbius greatest movie in the world 🇧🇬💪💪💪💪!!!! 574 morbillion tickets sold.
You may enjoy A Discovery of Witches. Watched it twice. Just to take advantage of the free week to get the last season. 🤦♀️
“TIME TO MORB!”- Morbius
Only one of those have made over a morbilion dollars on the box office on the first weekend alone and it wasn't the wheel of time
wheel of torbius
Frodo and Bilbo Baggins weren’t chosen ones. The whole point of using Hobbits as his main characters was to show that even in a world where you’re the smallest and weakest you can defeat great evil with courage and determination. A chosen one would be if Frodo were the only person in the world capable of resisting the ring’s influence because of some magical heritage. That’s definitely not the case.
I had the same reaction. The ring had a hard time corrupting frodo and bilbo because they had no desire for power. if say the farmer hobbit got the ring he would have used the mighty and terrible power of the ring to grow better cabbages. Frodo had the ring in his pocket for like 20 ish years and he did nothing with it.
Isn't Frodo predisposed to be one of the only people in the world capable of carrying the ring because he's a hobbit? And Gandalf chose him because he was the least likely hobbit to be corrupted by power in the shire? Been some time since I read the books, I may be wrong but that's what I seem to remember
Bilbo is definitely a rare breed; a person who truly never craved power of any sort. And it was even difficult for him to give it up. But I don’t think it has anything to do with him being a hobbit or being Sauron’s long lost son or some other chosen one cliché, just him being a humble guy. The ring corrupted Sméagol and Frodo who were both Hobbits.
@Philip Gregory Yeah these people are wrong. Frodo WAS the chosen one. Just because he didn't posses any supernatural powers, doesn't make him any less of a main character. Just what the council needed and when it needed it the most.
and see, that's where WOT could've been great from the beginning. Spoiler alert, but Rand especially and the group are fucking traumatized throughout by this "chosen one" prophecy, and it works directly in the dark one's favor. By the middle of the series Rand feels less and less human within his own body, unable to control or change his fate other than a suicidal final battle. He sees himself literally stuck just like Lews Therin.
The costume design is just wild, they look like they are dressed in futuristic sience fiction attire not medieval fantasy clothing
I don't know why this isn't discussed more often, but the biggest problem with the rewriting of the source material is that the untalented, yet arrogant, showrunners ignored the overall theme of the series. Throughout the series, this theme is frequently described, alluded to, stated outright, and often even relied upon by several plot points, but somehow still seems to be either a secret or unimportant to the show's producers. Simply stated, the overarching theme of the books is that the greatest human accomplishments require the input and cooperation of both men and women. This is an over-simplification, but women could only do certain types of female magic and men could only do certain other types of male magic. When they combine however, they can do far greater things together than they were capable of separately. It's kind of like a 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' sort of thing. IT'S ACTUALLY THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING A DRAGON REBORN. The showrunners however, chose to throw all that out in favor of a very different - very slanted - worldview, which necessitated numerous changes. The changes didn't drive the worldview; the worldview drove the changes. Then, because they think they're brilliant, they changed a lot of other things to make the [perennially popular and massively successful] story more "interesting" at long last. Good thing they were there to finally make something worthwhile out of a book series that only sold over 90 million copies. Guess what? If you haven't written any bestsellers, then you shouldn't be rewriting any either.
This is exactly why I only made it through the first two episodes before judging it very loosely based on the books and stopped watching.
Having women be dependent on men in any manner is mysoginist and overtly sexist duh. Haven't you been living in Western Civilization for the last 80 years? Men are, of course, incompetent and dependent on women however... This mirrors modern society exactly. If you haven't noticed, you've been delusional.
The problem is that the screenwriters didn't actually read or understand the book.
The first book isn't really a fantasy book. It's a light horror book (set in a fantasy setting). The book is about the main character slowly understanding that he's actually a monster. And all the things he has to do so that no one finds out. Especially his friends. Every single moment is spent teaching or reinforcing that, at the minimum, the main character will go nuts and kill people. Or at worst, break the world again.
Only by the end does the main character understand that while those things ARE true, he's not actually a monster.
And thus comes the show's biggest mistake. By making the first season have 6 Main Characters (Rand, Perrin, Matt, Moiraine, Nynaeve, and Lan), you have fundamentally altered the horror story path from beginning to end. A horror plot doesn't become scary in retrospect if you lore-dump who the "monster" was at the end, instead of making that your main character and experiencing the journey with them.
This captures one of my main feeling about the show. Being the "dragon" sucks so bad. The show didn't convey that Dragon will save the world but probably destroy it afterward.
Thats a great way to phrase it. Nice.
its worst then he just doesn't understand, he hates his audience. He once said on twitter 'oh you don't like how I wrote your fave character? Well now thier gay, and there's nothing you can do about it!"
@@gunmunz that is pure gaslighting.
Huh? Light horror? Maybe the final part of the book, I really liked that part, but otherwise I'm certain most people didn't believe for a second that Rand will go insane. He's obviously the protagonist, he's gotta win in the end (and get into a polyamorous releationship with THREE women who all fall for and actively pursue him because destiny), the six possible DRs twist is just not really compatible with the very gendered way the WoT magic system works.
It can't be overlooked that the director/showrunner *SPECIFICALLY* likes to antagonize fans and change things IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM ANGRY.
That level of spite is a serious personal flaw brought into the show.
I pretty much gave up on the show in first episode because it was VERY obvious whoever was doing the screenscript had ZERO respect for the source and very much thought they could make it better by significantly altering characters and setting to the point where a lot of them don't feel anything like them.
He's a sociopath and Egwene is his self insert character, He's writing Twilight erotic fan fiction, not Wheel of Time. The two men fighting over him are a wolf and someone that's inhabited by an ancient being. Egwene is also "unbreakable" as a child because sociopaths always think they are right and think everyone else are morons. Same kind of people wrote Rey in new Star Wars. She doesn't need her friends, they may as well not even be there. Those characters also have to be less to make the self insert character more awesome. She's perfect and we should all worship the self insert and the person who wrote her.
@@hackintosh3899 yeah but Egwene acts pretty much the same in the books. I fucking hated her from the get go. I didn't like Nynaeve at first either but she has such an incredible arc, she ends up becoming one of my favorite characters. Egwene only gets snottier and more obstinate.
@@fenixchief7Egwene is not fully formed in the books and "unbreakable". She's supposed to be a brat, supposed to be immature and not self aware. She's basically female Mat. Anyone who says they loved Mat before he wakes up in Tar Valon and clowns Gawyn and Galad is lying to themselves and that was 3 books in. You aren't supposed to like either character for a long while.
The main reason people don't like Egwene later is because she has no trust for Mat and Rand. With Mat it's because they are the same person. They are the alpha dogs in charge of a bunch of people, who have to project that they are right, even if they aren't so sure themselves. They can basically tell the other one is full of sh@^ and flying by the seat of their pants. With Rand she has to balance people who may suspect her allegiances will lead to their destruction and Rand possibly being mad. Jordan could have possibly explained this, but he probably felt he didn't have to.
I don't know why people hate Nynaeve. She's funny, she has no reason to trust this Aes Sedai and she feels responsible for her people. I never hated Nynaeve. I hated Egwene and I hated Mat. Mat ended up my favorite character tied with Lan and Egwene has arguably the best ending arc.
I enjoyed that antagonism a lot. I like when the fans are salty.
So, many liked the books, and liked the story, so Amazon thought the best way to attract them to this show was to change the story? I was so excited about the show because I really like the story, and the characters, but after watching episode 1 and 2, I gave up, it was honestly ruining the books for me.
They still could've done the mystery about who the dragon is. Throughout the first book the characters don't really know either and it could be any of the three guys in the main cast.
A high up executive at Amazon said to another lower executive "Make me a Game Of Thrones because GOT made a ton of money." They googled "fantasy books series like game of thrones" and found a popular series with a big existing fanbase that hadn't already been adapted and was completed. The showrunners and scriptwriters were hired to make the show. The motivation behind the show was never someone who liked the books. Because it wasn't a passion project they obviously decided to save money wherever possible. I believe a calculation was made on how faithful to be to the source material based upon keeping the existing book fans watching, balanced with pleasing new audiences, and this balancing act has lost a lot of what made the books so popular. Taking all that into account, they made a budget lackluster show. Fans of the books want something unbelievably amazing to match up with their opinions of the books, which it definitely isn't, and non book readers want something decent to watch. It's neither. Just disappointment.
Definitely. What puzzles me is, ok maybe an executive just googled fantasy books to adapt… why didnt they look for good writers who were also passionate fans?
@@esdraslopez4658 Because good passionate writers cost more money and usually are not 100% compliant when creative differences emerge. So, why pay more and risk confrontation when you have in-house generic writers that will do whatever you tell them to do for their low-tier paycheck?
I don't think anyone at Amazon expected Wheel of Time to make as much money as GoT. Firstly, HBO put a LOT more money into GoT than Amazon did Wheel of Time. I think its more that streaming services are desperate for content and they're just pumping out content to compete with other streaming services like its an arms race.
Its quantity over quality.
I mean Disney has so many IPs locked up they can create endless content. Netflix, at the time Wheel of Time was announced, was making so much money they could create endless content. Apple were ramping up their production. So Amazon responded.
This is what happens when Nepotism replaces Competence.
I wouldn't call 90mil a budget show. That is almost as much as GoT had.
Besides, WoT is just not as good as ASOIF. It is more in the league of Eragon, even though it is a little better.
The scene where Rand first channels lightning was fucking amazing in the books. In this scene, he's trapped in a room with one random girl. Now I don't mean to sound sexist, but unless she knew how to use that sword (which wasn't shown) then all Rand has to do is pick up the nearest stool, injure her, and afterward figure out a way to get past the... malicious door.
In the books, Rand and Matt are stuck in a room together and there's like 10 men *outside.* Their leader has admitted to being a darkfriend and there is nowhere to go. Rand and Matt are completely, unequivocally, fucked. And the darkfriends are breaking down the door. As he starts to panic, it's like Rand is losing control of his senses. And the door keeps going crash, crash, crash as they try to break it down. And right as they are about to break it down, something is clearly wrong with Rand and *BOOM.* A fucking lightning bolt comes down nearly killing everyone there and creating a huge hole in the wall for the pair to escape. It was so powerful that Matt was blind for days. And up to this point we hadn't seen any character channel that much.
This comment makes me sad for what could have been
I remember the second book but what scene are you talking about with the girl in the first paragraph?
@@oluade626 Yeah, that confused me too - he's referring to the scene in the show, not the book.
@@oluade626 Sorry yeah I was comparing the show version to book version.
@@LordLucless in the book there is a dark friend woman that tries to kill them. She has a dagger, that when they drop it in the bucket starts to hiss and steam. They tie her up and leave her. It’s the first time you see the hesitancy to harm women.
It'd be funny if instead of a video essay it was "The Wheel Of Time Failed, here's why" and it was a screen recording of the entirety of wheel of time
I am so saddened to see Mr Jordans work being defiled in this way, the books are amazing, this show falls far short, amazing video sir! subscribed
WoT is important among fantasy literature, and at the same time- it is traditionalist and sexist: it has a world of separate, distinct races and culture; and magic system based on two sexes being different, and having to work together. So obviously it had to be purchased in order to be rewritten to fit the themes of globalization and feminism ASAP, also making sure an adaptation faithful to the books does not come out. The scene with Morraine swearing an oath to Siuan on what looks like a vibrator, is what the TV series are about.
@@NeblogaiLTI just spit my drink out😂! You’re spot on. I completely lost interest right around that scene. Basically when they made Moiraine a lesbian lol
My issue with Mat, and I loved Mat as a character, is that the Amazon show displayed him as a thief and a failed gambler. The Two Rivers is a tiny community. They'd immediately chase Mat away or shun him, yet Mat was allowed to hang about and do it over and over for years?
This is a point I didn't think about.
There is a huge difference between a kid, even a teenager, pulling pranks like covering a dog in flour and releasing it, or "stealing" a pastry from the inn when the innkeeper's wife knows you're hungry and you've been helping out. Those are funny things adults will laugh off...
But yeah, stealing and reselling a bracelet as a grown man is very crappy and wouldn't be tolerated. MAYBE if it was known he was taking care of his sisters... But I feel like people would still not put up with stealing.
It does put him in a much more negative light although he is the same kind of personality in the books.
They killed Mat's character so bad that they ended up replacing him. I hate how in the books, he's just a goofy prankster and in the show, he's just a complete PoS.
The other big issue with Mat and his family is that in the books his father was a respected merchant and horse trader. He was a skilled fighter and respected enough to be on the Council of Emond's Field. It's doubtful someone letting their family be as they showed in the first episode would be any of those things.
I completely disagree with all of this. For one those things are implied in the books as well, go back and read it, it is heavily implied he has always been a gambler, trouble maker, and in smaller ways, a thief. Also compare Mat from book 1 to the show and you will realize Mat from the books character basically didn't exist. He is extremely unlikeable in Eye of the World when he is having any character and most of time he is just a goofball that does just extremely stupid things and gets the other characters in trouble. Mat in the show actually has motivations for the things he is doing and makes it WAY better
No I don't think you are understanding correctly. Mat gambled constantly and he's one of the few characters that regularly went to the nearby bigger towns and played dice. Matt also gambled with caravans that traveled through and entertainment troops. This was established in the books
"Vehicular manslaughter wouldn't make Sam a better character." Damn, I really never thought of it like that... 😂. It's funny, but a good point. I kind of brushed it off as "Well, they want us to feel something for Perrin right away." Then the writers didn't do much with him for the rest of the season.
Brandon Sanderson had an interesting idea for Perrin. Instead of fabricating a wife for Perrin to kill, Brandon suggested that if Perrin needs to kill someone who's important to him to make him more sympathetic, it should be Master Luhhan instead. Someone that Perrin has a strong connection to as a mentor and friend.
There's just no excuse for how they did Mat's parents dirty. Abel Cauthon especially is literally one of the best, most reliable characters in the books, and he was anything but a bad father.
@@jaredhumpherys8335 I saw when Sanderson said that and I totally agree.
@@DavidDecero Too bad the showrunner felt it necessary at all, UT at least Brandon's suggestion would've made sense and avoided an unfortunate trope.
@@jaredhumpherys8335 Yeah. I like how Sanderson came out basically said, "Look guys, I tried." I really think Fantasy authors should have more input when books are adapted.
@@jaredhumpherys8335 Except... book Perrin was WAY too careful to actually do that kind of thing with ANYONE he cares about. Even Sanderson is wrong with respect to this issue. It's like saying... if we need to take a dump on the source material there's a right way to do this and a wrong way to do this; here's the 'right' way to do this. I mean, as much as we wished he might accidentally 'oops' his unnamed wife who also ruined his character arc later in the books; the guy was too careful to do that kind of thing.
How is it possible that everyone is in a mixed race relationship in the isolated Two Rivers and yet there's still loads of different ethnicities? Would these people not have all mixed together by now? This is holding my colourblindness hostage
Agreed. I don't care the race but they should all look like 3rd cousins of one race.
The two rivers folk were never described physically from what I recall, but if I were to place a single heritage it would be Irish, they act _very_ Irish it seems.
@@lucamckenn5932 I think in the books they're described as being tan
But I think another key to their ethnicity is that in the books, whenever Rand is described in relation to the Two Rivers people, the only qualities ever pointed out are his hair color and height, never his skin color - you'd think it would be a point of conversation if he was like 5 shades lighter
Which also makes the show funny, because there's a bit in the mining village, where someone says that they can tell they're from the Two Rivers because of their accent and clothes-- even though they sound and wear the same clothing as everyone else in the show
@@Hegataro pretty sure juilin is the only main character that is colored, pretty sure he's like a deep bronze if not out right brown. Those of darker pigment are on the other side of the world in that one walledoff city. Oh, and the sea folk as well. Whereas all of the midlands are predominantly lighter. Can't say that the outlier places are the same, but places like Andor or Cairhein are direct Europe parallels.
@@lucamckenn5932 well, yea, but I'm not disagreeing with you in my original reply
Your explanation of how naive characters leads to seamless exposition struck a chord with me that I had never been able to put into words. The exposition dump at the start of the first tv show episode felt so different than the books and this sums up why so well. Great video sir
This is what I noticed too. I watched the first episode, read the book, then tried to go back to the show with questions on how they were going to portray certain things. It was so jarring to have them shove information in your face with seemingly no good reason, I assume just to get the plot out but while skipping parts they didn't want to/couldn't waste time filming.
I fully expected them to start every season with wind blowing into the start of a scene. Which is how every wheel of time book starts ignoring the preludes. Like why didn't they do that?
The mystery of the dragon reborn in this show is like a “who dunnit” without knowing the crime committed. Was it a murder, arson or theft, nobody knows. This creates two problems for the audience, one, they have no idea what the significance of the “Dragon Reborn” is, and so why should they care. Two, any clues given as to who the Dragon is meaningless. To go back to the “who dunnit” analogy, matchsticks would be a significant clue(or red herring) in the case of arson, but if the crime was theft then it’s irrelevant. Mysteries need to feel possible to solve otherwise there is no reason to engage with them
I never read the books and completely agree with you. Who is the dragon is obviously like the "ring" in Tolkien but in LOTR they explained Frodo had to do it as anyone else is corrupted by it. Here? They really do not explain what the dragon is and how they are supposed to solve everything. LOTR also had a short prologue that shown the original battle when Sauron lost it and what happened. Like, what does it mean when an age falls here? Everyone dies? They are at medieval technology so it is not like they can go backwards much more..so what is the risk? Everyone enslaved? How? What does that mean? Also, I did not like everyone in that small village having "some" powers. They might as well put up a billboard saying two rivers, home to potential dragons!
I think the biggest crime is how much it breaks the lore. Like seriously this was a dumb decision with no thought put into it....
@@bobross1829 yeah, they blew it. You should read the books if thats your thing but you shouldn't need to in order to understand the damn show.
We only really know details about one age falling in the books but, as the name suggests, time is cyclical so it could have happened a hundred times. What was significant about the most recent fall is that it wasn't due to the dark ones hand directly but through his tainting of Saidin, male channelers went insane and the breaking of the world was their work. Essentially an apocalypse scenario with very few survivors and thats where the books open, mid apocalypse.
When we come into the head of our main man Rand, it's thousands of years later and more of a Renaissance era in my opinion but its post-apocalyptic too. Weird vibes the show doesn't convey well. So the dark ones been sealed away all this time but its seal is weakening and as it does the Wheel weaves a new Dragon into the pattern. The Dragon Reborn is the most powerful male channeler and the strongest Ta'veren but the show does a pretty shit job at explaining what that even is too.
Ta'veren are basically people playing with cheat codes. Inexplicable shit just happens around them, good and bad. The 3 boys are all powerful Ta'veren and the girls are some of the strongest channelers in millenia because of Rand. He has an unconscious affect on everything around him or its more appropriate to say the pattern weaves itself around him in a way to set him up for success in the last battle. Later in the books we see the more direct affect this actually has on Mat and Perrin but shit, I dont wanna ruin too much in case you do want to read them.
@@fenixchief7 Reading the books will not help you understand the show. Too much has been changed for the show to be connected to the world the books gave us
The show screwed up. They needed to make the book 1 prologue be the first thing people saw. I think the issue is that the prologue inspired so many copycats that it might feel generic; It occurs 3000 years in the past and it is not explicitly moving the plot forward... but it was absolutely necessary. It sets up the desperation of the survivors and the feeling that humanity is trying to recover from a cataclysmic event that is still ongoing. It sets up the scale of the magick system's potential and the horrifying damage it can do. And it shows why no one would want to be the Dragon Reborn.
A common theme in bad writing I'm more starting to notice is that characters only have personality traits due to events that happen in the story
its a consequence of Netflix junk writing setting the blueprint.
none of these "screenwriters" ever get selected based on merit but based on incestuous nepotism.
it is why everyone can see the emperor has no clothes once they take up the writing instead of the original writer as seen in game of thrones.
Oh damn, that's well said!
Ah I see you picked up on the new trend for modern star trek as well.
I'm pretty sure that Siuan and Morraine was hinted as having a romantic relationship when they where novices in the books, something about pillowfriends I think, I can't be 100% sure though, been a long time.
Yes, and they would use a rare, priceless teleportation device - only as a means of hooking up, right? It was blatantly clear that the writers have zero knowledge of RJs world.
They did do some skinship, but never anything to point of hardcore scissoring
Like a kiss, that's it, a single kiss when they were both high off of graduating to Aes Sedai
That's not maybe Liam Neeson, that's Roose Boolton!!
I love the chase scene where two normal humans are able to out run a pack of wolves for an extended period of time. But two tall lankier dudes get cornered by a 5 foot nothing girl in like 4 seconds, despite having a head start.
What killed the show for me was "we don't know who he or she is, but the dragon is reborn." These books have a heavy theme of the problems that arise when equal but opposite forces work against each other rather than in synchronicity. Notice how many times someone says "urgh, MEN" or "urgh WOMEN". Everything has an equal and opposite force, even the evil of Shadar Logoth was like antimatter to the taint on the one power. Rand was finally able to understand that he can't and SHOULDN'T be everything for everyone all the time. The dragon is a male channeler born into a world where women have be the defacto Federal government for hundreds of years. Balance.
Now that is the way to explain the men vs women.
Because studios are trying to capture the "everyone can be a winner" generation, wich is a good message but is a terrible bending of the source material and I'm absolutely sure that the original plan ( might have changed since reception have been sub-par) was to build at least one female channeler into the resolution of the dragon plot to "combine" both magic so that the patriarchy don't win again because:
A- white dudes are now deliberately sidelined in Hollywood, which is not a problem in itself since they've been in everything but it's the "retcon" or the deconstruction of past characters that poses a problem... already established characters are stripped of their characteristics and accomplishments to accommodate the new redistribution of those feats and attributes to other existing or inserted ones so that the female audience that didn't read the books feels represented because they're a huge slice of the money pie and all of this is done by TV WRITERS constantly eyed by meddling studio executives who never reads anything but charts, projections and stocks trying to dumb down the lifes work of a talented book writer.
B- there's no B.... I've stop watching that shitty PR exercise and fuk that union busting, tax avoiding, lobbying against social interests amazon corporation.
How did they manage to kill a story which emplified the best of the feminism, multicultural and travel broadens the mind and is good and pretty manage to kill it by black and white views and managing to be too 'woke'. It's like the writers have the depth, vision and life experience of a shallow muddy puddle.
That line was an outright rejection of the very core of the mythology and sends ripples out to literally every aspect of the books... all by itself it irrevocably makes this show intrinsically and vastly different from Jordan's vision. I was concerned how Hollywood would adapt a series that so passionately embraced gender roles when they outright reject the concept of gender to begin with, and those concerns proved well-founded.
@@mat3714 I think it's tragic that in order to push diversity we have to deny reality rather than accept reality and grow the best of it. Race is an important part of the books too. The Breaking was kind of their Tower of Babel story, and each race has to find commonality with the others- which is harder for neighbors than it is for people far away. The Aeil were accepted by the two rivers people immediately which was interesting. Same with the Ogier. But races that faught for years had to learn to appreciate one another in some way in order to fight in the same war.
I hated how they stripped the joy from the Tinkers and Thom. I get that they wanted things to be darker and for the Two Rivers to be less Shire like. But by stripping the joy from the tinkers you strip out what looks so appealing about the way of the leaf, even knowing the danger and pain it can bring.
Interesting, I felt the opposite about the Way of the Leaf. I really appreciate the show's explanation; if you fully expect to be reborn in the future, that encourages you to live a life now that makes the world a better place next time. That's the one thing the show did better than the books IMO.
@@josephward4918 Yeah, I think the Tinker section was the only plot line they nailed, apparently one of the few things in the books Rafe actually likes.
I think Thom's attitude fit pretty well with the situation they introduced him in. He has been banished from Caemyln for a while now, is in an old mining town that stoned an innocent Aiel, and sang a song that matched the tone while also delivering subtle but engaging exposition.
Other than that awkward introduction to the Tinkers, I thought the show nailed them. And I liked the show Thom more than the book Thom, who comes across as a bit corny IMO. Honestly, the show peaked in episodes 3 and 4, which heavily featured these two characters.
In the book Thom is a grumpy old curmudgeon with a heart of gold. Rough around the edges, but still likable. The show version isn't anything remotely like him. When he flashes that shit-eating grin at Mat after having stolen his money, it's clear that the writers created a completely new character. Gleemen are fairly respected people, they don't have a reputation of being pick pockets.
I've read the series one time and listened to it two times. What they did to it is unforgiveable. All we needed was an animé. Japan, where are you?
Exactly, WoT has all the spectacle, cheesiness, and awkward yet somehow watchable relationship drama of anime. Even comes with a harem.
Someone should just make a motion comic like they did for Berserk, but with voice acting and good sound design.
It'd be better if it was just adapted better in live action. I don't like anime...
A problem with this show (both seasons): half the characters play it like this is Game of Thrones, but the other half play it like they’re in Lucifer.
What stinks about all of this is that we’re going to get fewer fantasy adaptations as a result of these failures.
They will refuse to recognize why the series fail and chalk it up to some inherent flaw of fantasy.
It is not that hard to make a good fantasy adaptation. Just adhere to the story.
Don’t alter it and then blame the failure on the genre of fantasy. Which is inevitable at this point.
Studios like to blame fans rather than the genre. "oh I changed the very essence of the story that you've read over and over and over and have come to love, the very story that inspired you to become a writer because I have a political agenda that I NEED to insert and your mad about it? yOuR tOxIc!"
Something similar happened in the late 70s /early 80s, with Sci Fi. There was so much crap made, trying to capture a piece of Star Wars. Eventually, things calmed down. People thought Sci Fi would never recover, but it did. My fear is how long it will take to return and what awesome franchises will be destroyed along the way.
@@3dreamsequence agreed. It’s not their fault, it’s ours. Even while they’re the ones who failed to make a faithful adaptation.
I just don’t understand, from a monetary standpoint, why a studio would alter the story knowing it is likely to alienate the fan base.
They bought the rights in large part bc of the built in fan base. And then proceed to alienate the very reason the franchise was bought in the first place.
What I hope happens is that the studio execs clamp down on all of this. They are all still answerable to the shareholders. So if the execs keep letting political agendas steer the horse, and the inevitable results are poor profit margins, then it’s their head on the block.
So far, it’s woke writers, directors and producers steering this ship. But when they fail, the execs are going to have to rethink things or they’ll be gone.
Which is why it’s imperative we boycott the dribble coming out.
Yes dude, it is the EVIL "wokes" that has infultrated all levels of the studio machine, ruining these adaptions with their secret, malicious intentions of putting a black person on screen Lmfao
Just one step away from blaming the Jews....
No, they do what they all do. Blame the fans.
56:30 or so - There was a detail that really bugged me in the courtroom scene. At one point, an Aes Seddai is asked how long it's been since she "took the shawl." If they didn't mention it, I'd have been more forgiving, but the only shawl in the room is on the Amerlyn Seat. None of the Aes Seddai are wearing their shawls. Nothing about shawls has been mentioned before now. This very formal occasion in the Hall would have had EVERY Aes Seddai present wearing her shawl, but none of them are. Again, if the dialogue hadn't mentioned them, I'd have let that pass, but what was the costuming department thinking!? What were the directors thinking!?
Just one of the almost endless examples of outright lazy, amateurish, and sloppy writing. The title of the show should be TheWheel of What Were They Thinking. Probably the most agregeous example in the whole season is the episode 3 dark friend scene where she reveals herself and attacks them. I have never seen a scene in cinima with so much wrong with it from beginning to end. A total illogical nonsensical absurdity. You could do a 1 hour analysis and breakdown for just that one scene alone.
@@Dave3Dman not just the writers - the director, cinamatographer, and continunity... all of them.
@@Dave3Dman I would actually be interested in that analysis. I think my brain was sufficiently turned off and my soul sufficiently numbed to miss whatever you saw there. (I remember it being sudden and such, with a bit of a hint of "oh, right, we need to hit this plot point," but it didn't stand out to me.)
@@segevstormlord3713 Definitely worth a rewatch of just that scene with full focus to experience the multiple levels of unfathomable absurdity.
I remember when I first saw Game of Thrones advertised. It looked awesome, so I went out and bought the books, and was well into A Clash of Kings when the first season released. In both the books and show, I was immediately hooked by the fantastic writing, and compelling characters.
One year later, I picked up the first Witcher game and promptly got hooked once again on the great writing and characters, playing through both the first and second game, and when the third came out I was absolutely floored, particularly with the final third of that game which is one of my all time favorite experiences gaming. I never could get hooked on the books though. Not sure if it was the Polish to English translation, or merely that I didn't like the author's style of writing, but there's no denying he wrote compelling characters. When the Witcher TV show came out, I found the first season pleasantly enjoyable. Not fantastic like Game of Thrones, but definitely good. Season 2 dropped and I thought they took good to great, though I know season 2 has a lot of detractors for how it deviated from the books.
I gave both these series a chance and very much enjoyed both. I was fully prepared to give the Wheel of Time Series a chance as, just like GoT and Witcher, I loved the universe even before the show released and was hoping it would do the universe justice just as those other two shows had.
Then Wheel of Time dropped and I was....crushed. The narrative was poor, they changed the characters in odd ways that were contrary to their book depictions, the direction was somewhat incompetent to be honest, and even the main story differed for no apparent reason but to focus more on the Aes Sedai (Why? When the story is about the Dragon?).
Now, I love fantasy as a genre, and I'll watch fantasy shows through to the end even if they're only decent. But, I didn't finish Wheel of Time. I watched all but the last episode and never had a desire to finish it. Pretty bad when the grand finale has no hook for you. Shows how piss poor a job they did with season 1. They failed on so many levels I couldn't find a single compelling reason to finish the season. I haven't even checked to see if they're still doing a second season! That's how much lack of interest I have in it.
The other two series get bad as well, fair warning
For me The Witcher is a terrible show definitely felt weak.
@@tymac9127 Oh yeah it seems fine at first and then Eskel........ look how they massacred my favourite character. I am still reading the books, the only thing I liked about season 2 is that I was correctly able to identify the monster in the first episode (without having read the books). I am at Tower Of The Swallow now and I will not be watching the show, I do not want them to butcher my favourite book of the series (so far it is Baptism Of Fire).
I don't think I'd call LotR a Chosen One narrative at all.
Frodo is just some guy. That's kind of the point.
The Hobbits being the deciding factor despite being surrounded by so many (literally) bigger and more important people than them... The theme of the story is that no matter how small and insignificant you may be in the grand scheme of things, you have your part to play, and you can make a difference.
That's about as far removed from Chosen One as it gets.
Finally, he is living up to his most popular video. He is the video essay UA-camr
The legend foretold. But first he must conclude his college studies...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO he's a booktuber first
What you said about trying to misdirect the identity of the dragon was spot on. In the books we get the prologue where the chosen one goes insane and dies, kicking off the Breaking of the World. Then we get a propecy that the chosen one will be reborn and pleading for the "Dragon to ride again on the winds of time". We then immediately cut to teenage boy who is the main POV character for the rest of the book. Gee. I WoNdEr WhO tHe DrAgOn is!
This removes the soul of the story and replaces it with something else entirely. And it sucks
I'm gonna say a truth I never said to anyone. I read Eye of the World when I was 14, and I was FLABBERGASTED at the reveal that Rand is the Dragon.
@@maxencedworaczek602 Same, I read it at 10 or 11 and I wasn't on to the chosen one trope yet. And to be fair, I don't think Moiraine even hints that one of them is the Dragon, it's just kind of a thing in the background that you have to piece together until the reveal at the end.
@@calebmauer1751 If memory serves, she never mentions that, at least not until much later, she justifies taking them based on the fact that trollocs attacked the village and she believes it involves one of the three boys and the villagers accept her word on her authority as an Aes Sedai. I know she picks Egwene for her talent but I forget exactly how she finagled her into the group and, of course, Nynaeve chases them down to fulfill her duty as Wisdom.
They are pursued, which validates her concerns to the group and they don't question her judgement but, of course, certainly wonder why they are being targeted.
@@christianclark347 Moiraine did NOT pick Egwene (in the books)... Egwene forced herself on THEM out of pure selfishness.
The boys KNEW they were targets... knew they HAD to leave, or everyone in Emond's Field would DIE.
Right THEN... they became heroes, at least to some extent... particularly Rand and Perrin. Mat, less so, because he did want adventure... but still, he no longer had a reasonable choice... he had to draw the Fades and Trollocs away from his parents and sisters.
Egwene CHOSE to leave... and ABANDON her parents.
In modern parlance, Egwene chose career (becoming Aes Sedai) over family.
(The show changes this, while keeping her choice of career over family, while it also removes the "consequences" of abandoning her parents, thus making her seem more noble than she actually is at this point in the books.)
Nynaeve ALSO became a hero, by trying to "rescue" the boys and Egwene from the "wicked Aes Sedai schemes".
What a stupid comment. What you said about the books clearly implies and in fact is correct in saying that there’s no mystery whatsoever to rand being the dragon reborn in the books. It’s boring in that sense and as much as I love the books (i’m just about to start the fourth) The first was a mess and frankly I thought the show was way more interesting in how they Made it a bit more mysterious
I don't know anything about why Mat's actor left and I don't want to suggest anything about him, but shit...
A major feature of Mat Cauthon in the books is that he doesn't really WANT to do anything, but his sense of duty keeps pushing him to do extraordinary things. The fact that actor leaves the show because he just doesn't feel like entering the ways just breaks the story so much.
I mean, they already wrecked Mat and Perrin just with their backstory changes. Perrin being married is disastrous for his story arc. But Mat...
Mat was a happy-go-lucky kid who goofed off and avoided work and liked pranks and jokes and could get Rand and Perrin in trouble by talking them into helping with his mischief. But most importantly, he was happy and friendly as much as he was an _innocent_ troublemaker. A kid. Not a rude, dark, brooding thief. The whole reason the Shaddar Laggoth dagger thing was so notable is because Mat has such a personality shift, turning dark and brooding. In fact, if you want the "is he the Dragon?" mystery, _that was the fake-out for it:_ that Mat could be going mad from the One Power that he might be secretly channelling. He was actually being twisted by a different evil, which has its own interesting bits, but... in the show, yes, the twisting happens, but it's barely even a personality change, so it's hard to recognize for those who don't know to expect it.
I can only imagine that the eventual mercenary leader is going to be a bitter and brooding drunk who drowns himself in wine and women rather than a would-be irresponsible fun-seeker who loves women and gets drunk because it's part of _having fun._ Which will make him as dull and boring as this show's version of Thom. :(
Egwene: I think we should go left
Rand:(my chance), I guess you're an expert on... left...
Egwene: ?
Rand: Sorry, what was the question
16:50 - It was SO irritating. I understand that you were making analysis of show separate from the books, but in the books majority of Aes Sedai come from poor families, with Amerlyn at that point being a poor fisherman's daughter (which is the same in the show). And suddenly they turned away somebody because of ragged clothes - my BS meter hit the ceiling at this moment.
I felt that was the writers simply being unable to keep their politically reflexive "noble poor person done wrong by rich people in power" trope out of the story.
Every scene had that much BS. They couldn't go sixty seconds without adding or rewriting absurdity in.
The majority of Aes Sedai didn’t come from “poor” families. Moraine for example, has noble blood, and Elayne is a princess. In fact, the reason why the fact that the Amirlyn Seat was a poor fisherman’s daughter is the fact that she became the Amirlyn Seat despite having such a lowly background.
@@submandave1125 never picked up on that, but you're kinda right, the Aes Sedai are super accepting of women from all across the land, and they actively WANT to foster powerful Aes Sedai
@@TheLouHam yes but the Aes Sedai don't have a class superiority complex, they're humble and actively want to foster strong Aes Sedai.
Minus the Red, but they're a different story, and aren't reflective of the entirety of Aes Sedai.
1:14:30 one of the things I hate most about the show is how they utterly failed to make being the Dragon something nobody wants. Far from being second to literal evil incarnate as far as the population is concerned, Moiraine announces that one of them is the Dragon in the first episode to...no response. Even male channelers are neutered in how they're presented in the show, as a perfectly manageable threat for the White Tower. All the male channelers are shut down fairly easily, Logain fights 3 Aes Sedai but we don't really know if that means anything because multiple Aes Sedai die fighting a couple of brigands outside.
« A couple of Aes Sedai die fighting a couple of brigands »… but a couple of untrained ( but poweful) girls and some generic channelers wipe out one of the worst Trollocs/Fades attack Shienar has ever faced…
@@ericsimard5889 2 powerful. The rest were rejected from the Tower, according to them.
@@ericsimard5889 c
Exactly... there is a mythos and legend...everybody knows about the breaking.... the Forsaken are used to scare little kids into eating their dinner. They know that the dragon broke the world... he did not just drop it and put a crack in it... oceans were elevated to the level of mountains...and mountains fell into the oceans. It took thousands of years to crawl back to where they are... so everybody...every culture...has cultural or genetic memories of this horrendous "breaking" event. Much like Noah and the Arc, it is built into every culture. And yes... I think if a small town got stirred up that a townsperson was the Dragon Reborn... i think that they could murder that person.... serious stuff. "Dude, your ass could be the Dragon Reborn.!" .... "Wow, like really?" To be honest there is so much history that has to be revealed as set up... but as pointed out in the video... ALL THE LORE DID NOT NEED TO BE SETUP IN THE FIRST SEASON. The good part of when your favorite book series gets made into a series... is that it is made into a series. That bad part is that the writers feel that they know best.... and of course their bosses pull their strings. I just don't know how so much could go wrong with Robert Jordan's wife approving everything. Well, maybe she got the technicality right... but she should have put her foot down. If you cannot do better than 30% of what the book was... perhaps it would be better if the Amazon team put it away and let somebody else do it.
Jordan was pretty specific about this; he did an interview talking about it. He wanted to write the chosen hero story but didn't believe that people would just go along with it because someone else said they had too. Rand throughout the books says over and over that he didn't ask for it, and in the first two books even tires to leave on several occasions only to be dragged back in because of concern for his friends (usually Matt and things related to the dagger) or because he is quite literally locked in the city.
If they were going to try to give Perrin a tragic backstory, couldn't they just have him kill Master Luhan or his wife? It would still have problems, but at least it would feel less shoehorned in.
I for one don't understand why they aged up the characters. For the first 3 books, their innocence and young naivete is what informs lots of their decisions. Makes it seem like Moraine is the only one having it together (and Perrin, since he careful). And the fact that they're young idiots acting like it makes it quite relatable.
One thing I loved about Book 1 was that Perrin mopes about how unfair it is people laugh at him for being deliberate. He does this 10 minutes after riding his horse off a cliff into the river... ;D
@@hoi-polloi1863 Having shadowspawn on your heel and escaping them you'd also go to the most *solid* thoughts to calm down :D
Yes Rafe "fought" to keep the manetheran scene in the show, unfortunately he did not fight to keep it in the correct spot thematically and consequently the entire reason for Moiraine bringing it up was lost as she was using it to manipulate the Two Rivers people into letting their kids go off with her for their own safety essentially by emboldening them with a tale of their great past as warriors.
Its stuff like that from what I am reading is what makes this show so terrible.
and his boyfriend is the dead warder in E5
The manetheran speech had consequences that went through most of the books. It awakened the manetheran spirit and old blood of the people in the Two Rivers. It made them believe they were capable of much more than they thought possible. The two rivers people always stood out in any army they joined, even tho they were just mostly farmers. On the TV Show though, the two rivers people never learned of their heritage....
@@silverwingwarlock9314 In the books the boys are 20, but the community is strong and unwilling to just let some strangers take several of them away into unknown danger without a bloody good explanation - not even someone who helped protect the village during a trollock attack
@@OppositeOfNinja sorry I should of wort act more like kids in the book why In the series one of them is married, one is supporting his two little sisters and the outer two act more responsible. That sense would of ruined in my opinion the amazing ending of episodes 1 of 4 people being forced to leave everything they know to protect the ones they love and no time to say goodbye.
Agree that too many fans were too forgiving with this show. There’s nothing wrong with the books, they aren’t boring, and they sold like crazy as they were coming out. No reason to dump the main plot point regarding men and women having different experiences with magic. It was already built to appeal to everybody.
What annoys me the most is the people bending backwards to justify this show by dimishing the books' achievements
@@arenkai Had people tell me the first book was horrible and had to be fixed.... They actually read a book series that they hated the first book... I am dubious.
Too forgiving? most people in online discourse I see about this show despise it.
@@mrschneider9891 I’m basing it on some videos I watched when the show was first released, I haven’t followed anything about this show since then.
@@chrisw6164 trust me from the get go alot of people have hated this show with an absolute passion. Honestly too much imo
God...I read the first book in HS...some when I went into the Army...some during college...finished it when my wife bought the final book for me. So I love the series...so many years of my life. So when tried watching the show...it disappointed me so much...after the 4 episode...hated it so much I just couldn't continue. Such a wasted opportunity. At least we still have the books
Honestly I heard bad things about the show and decided not to watch... I had no idea it was THIS BAD. As a lover of the books I gotta be honest... I can't watch any more of this, it's too infuriating to find out what they did. Good on you for detailing it out. Maybe another time
This show was painful to watch, you’re lucky to have never watched it.
yeah i’m still gonna watch s2 and if s3 is still and then i give up all hope and start hate watching. (i’m cautiously optimistic for s2)
Don't let youtube channels with a vested interest in views put you off watching.
I loved the books and the series is really good.
It's not perfect but it is thoroughly enjoyable and Rosamund Pike is fantastic and carries the show to a level above what it would have been otherwise.
The guy who runs this channel obviously loves the sound of his own voice and seems to be more interested in himself and his bank account than giving an honest opinion of a show.
@@Nick-AngelpeodSeaxisc So you can only have an honest opinion of the show if you like it?
@@PrinceofRavens64 "vested interest" being the point you so desperately avoided.
I honestly liked it while some will honestly not.
Review channels on youtube are looking for views.
So to answer your very silly question........no
all the characters were massacred, even their superwomen moiraine and egwene, and what they did to Lan, Rand, Mat and Perrin was nothing but criminal..
This is ridiculous nonsense. You've clearly only browsed the books. The characterization is actually the strength of the show.
@@HallyVee actually, have you even heard of The Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan? because even a cursory browsing of them will reveal to your simple mind that the characters/ plot/ world in the books have very little similarity to the filth that is the show, why don't you try actually reading the books
@@bananachocopie her acting is frequently poor. They butchered the plot yes but they stuck quite closely to characterization. Some fun poked here and there like with Lan yes but otherwise nailed it.
@@zionmarcelo as I said, I agree the plot has been butchered. But the characterization is spot on quite often. Some minor quibbles ofc like Lan. Hate porn can be amusing but gotta grow out of it.
@@HallyVee haha 'minor quibble like Lan' hahaha read the books before commenting or even actually watch the shows
"That wood's Ironwood, it would take 3 men your size to break it."
He isn't strong, she's just stupid.
There's a whole can of worms I could open up about Robert Jordan and my thoughts on Wheel of Time the books. Never watched the show, and glad I didn't.
Long story short, these are books that needed someone with skill and talent to trim down the bloat while keeping the meat of the story.
I would sell my kidney for a review of season 2. Seriously this video is my comfort video and I come back to watch it every couple months
"Mat starts acting a dick for no reason." Yet another problem with the show. They didn't develop his character enough to know what he was like pre-dagger to really even notice his change of character.
Tbf they don't really much in the book either. I gave it a fresh reread after the season ended.
Tbf I didn't notice there was anything weird with Mat on my first read either. I thought it was because of the shock of what happened that he started acting like that, didn't seem out of character to me. Only once it was revealed that he had the dagger with him I started finding his behaviour worrying and strange. That being said, the show definitely did it worse because they even had Mat be a brooding guy from the first episode because of his family problems so there was really no change of attitude for him in the show once he got the dagger.
One critique I have for "The Wheel of Time" as a whole is the random acts of sexual tension. But for all of my complaint about that, it really stopped there. Including all of this unnecessary sex is just a gratuitous attempt to make it more like "Game of Thrones." Having Lan and Nyneave already romantically entangled ruins the slow burn that their relationship had in the books, which means we'll have to think of some other arbitrary way to add drama there later.
one of my (formerly) favorite WoT UA-camrs said: " I like that Rand and Egweyne had Sex, it tries to cater to a more mature audience who does not identify with the conservative ideas about sex"....well...they live in a village of a few hundred people, not in 2022 America. where in the world are small town communities not somewhat conservative.
Back in the day, good shows created trends (hairstyles mostly), now a days, shows try to pander to existing trends. everything needs to be made into a reflection of today.
fantasy doesnt need sex and gratuitous violence to be taken seriously, the dark one and the forsaken and myrdraal are all terrifying and more creepy and scary than even the orcs and nazgul in lotr, the despair at facing the dark one and his minions is a good way to show how the stakes are
I have no issue with them bringing in sex or sexual tension. I have issue with them bringing it where it doesn't belong. When done right - it can add to the emotional stuff (because sex complicates things and can be an emotional and meaningful thing) but they do it sooo wrong. Whenever its shown, it feels rushed and completely unemotive, as well as WAY TOO EARLY.
@@svenlauke1190 It goes beyond that. The world is still recovering from an apocalyptic event. This kind of free love sexual hedonism is really only feasible in a society that has access to advanced medical knowledge to the point where the risks aren’t that much of a factor, and WE haven’t even reached that point quite yet, to be honest. Not only that, but the population was utterly devastated, and the most effective way to foster a recovery from such an event is to encourage tight, monogamous familial bonds. It’s a major factor as to why our species has advanced as far as it has in real life, the monogamous nuclear family. It encouraged paternal investment and involvement in the rearing of children and THAT is largely what made our population start to skyrocket. So yeah, Dan Greene is completely full of shit.
@@radicaldreamer927 I donvt think homophobia comes down to medical knowledge and prevention of disease. Would especially not make sense in a world with magic healing.
I feel like Rand and Matt's travels could have been a montage. The dark friends are just normal people. They aren't super human
Yes it would have been cool to show that no matter where they go they are chased by darkfriends.
They shouldn’t have even revealed so early that one of them was the dragon, like it was a shock when it was revealed in the book later on just that one of them was the dragon, not even revealing that it was rand
Perrin not blacking out and killing the two White Cloaks like in the book is absolutely key, it was something that haunted him through the entire series until the last books and is a fundamental part of his growth and of him finding peace with himself and with the White Cloaks. Horrendous that they missed that, they've changed so many things that it's impossible to complete a show that has nothing to do with the books.
What I don't understand is why they replaced what happened in the book with Perrin MURDERING HIS WIFE. Robert Jordan put in a very solid motivation for Perrin's reluctance to use his powers and to make every possible attempt as pacifism.
It almost feels like the show runners thought it wasn't bad enough, that viewers would think, "Pfft, why would he feel guilty murdering *them*? I'd kill them and walk away, clean conscious." So, they thought increasing the shock factor would make it more believable, I guess? For an average person, if they had to murder someone, they'd have to deal with permanent trauma. Even if they could continue functioning as they were before, they'd have to deal with so much awful fall out (like legal issues, remembering the feeling of injuring a living person, considering their own mortality and how easy it is for a life to end, etc.)
It stings even more when even a little bit of characterization of the WCs Perrin (should have) killed would have made the same point as killing his wife did. That is, if a particular WC offers Perrin some water, tend his wounds due to some torture, give a kind word... And then later try to stop Perrin escaping, and Perrin kills the only white cloak(s) that was kind to him. That would have kept the poignancy and also still make it believable that he can physically and mentally continue to participate in the plot, wtih the mental anguish presented in the book. Killing your wife--your life partner, your best friend, your love--would absolutely ruin any average person for YEARS. As he stands as a character, it would only be believable if Perrin retired to the most menial job he could think of. He wouldn't try to save the world. Not unless he had several months of genuine recovery and therapy, first... Which is in short supply in The Wheel of Time.
He had to be saved by a woman, as per the post modern, marxist, feminist ideologs that bastardized the series.
The longer I live the more I learn to fear idiots telling me they've "fixed something" that wasn't broken
Thank you so much for this review! Just fun fact; I am that impossible person who started reading after watching the show, because of the show. Mostly because the actors were trying so hard with a lackluster script, I was like.... I need more of these characters, but written better.
So I started reading. I am on book 3.
I think the idea of showing with another warder/Aie Sedai how much being cut off from each other worked for me, a non-reader. Did they need to spend so much time on it? No. Like literally have the whole thing with Logaine go down faster and Stepin do a fast sepuku at the end of his only episode. (shudder. That's horrible.) Or just have him do the wailing and beating his chest thing over Kerene just after the battle. The concept was good for a non-reader. Warder/Aie Sedai bond is a new kind of bond. I did need to be shown what that meant. Just... not like that. They could have just elongated the scene in the woods where Nyneve give Lan a warning that what she's about to do to Moiraine will hurt. THEN SHOW HIM HURTING. Boom! Concept achieved. No drawn out Stepin stuff necessary.
Because I started reading the series AFTER watching the show, episode 4 was one of my favorite. If the identity of the Dragon had not already been spoiled for me I would have never been convinced that anyone but Nyneve was the Dragon Reborn. This is such a problem.
It's like the actor playing Rand was told, "Remember everything everyone hated about Anakin in Star Wars: Episode 2? Do that, in every episode."
In regards to Mat they should have just had Moiraine say Mat was too sick to travel and left him. Not the ideal situation but it would have made sense and not been a character assassination.
Actually that would lead to the question why Moiranine doesn't simply wait until he is better. There is no reason why they need to hurry and should Mat be the Dragon (20% chance) then leaving without him is simply stupid. Moiraine reasoning in the show that if "cowardly" Mat is the dragon their plan wouldn't work anyway makes her continuing without Mat at least plausible. I also believe that they had already finished shooting the waygate-scene and couldn't reshoot it to have a version without Mat.
@@gildor8866 I would say not. She has been after the dragon forever. It's almost become her reason for being. And she KNOWS he's absolutely necessary. A "cowardly" dragon could be helped, could be slowly given the needed courage. Moraine is more then up to the task of helping him with that. Courage isn't something everyone is born with, sometimes it has to be learned. And again, Moraine has more then enough life experience to know this. So her dropping a potential cowardly dragon would make absolutely no sense at all.
@Gildor if you're telling me that they couldn't reshoot a scene in an open field with a simple structure then that is a massive red flag in regards to the competency of the people in charge of this show.
@@justinalbin7272 They could have reshot that scene but how would that have helped writing Mat out? The actor was gone so the scene would have been an exposition dump why Mat suddenly isn't there anymore with important decisions having been made off screen and then we'd still ask why Moraine would leave him behind if he's a dragon reborn candidate. They had to work with what they had and what they had were shots of Mat standing in the field, so they used them to make it look like he chose to stay behind. It's not perfect but at least it gives the character some agency and it happens on screen. Of course Mat not going with them makes little sense but it's not like the show had a choice there.
@@philippschmidt80 The solution was simple, just have Mat be too weak from the dagger to go with the group and be left behind in Tar Valon, just as he was in the books. Sure, that screws up the order of events from the books, but the show already did that by having them in Tar Valon and having Moiraine fully heal Mat of his connection to the dagger.
Just want to point out. Loial is DEAD, actually deader than dead.
Fain used the dagger from Sadar Logoth. Remember the one that was corrupting Mat? No idea how he end up having it in the series. (In the book happens in book 2 and again in book 5).
This dagger is cursed if it wounds you, you turn to dust you do not exist.
They break the story FOR NO REASON so many times it's sad
I was already so disappointed by that time, i was thinking nothing could surprise me anymore...oh light was i shocked and surprised they killed Loial. Totally unbelievable, but on the other hand now we know what they rip out of the story line... Everything that detailed the world the author created so very miticulous. Because the writings of Loial and the songs from the gleemen(Rand becomes one in the end) will be history, tales, myth for the next era. Thus, they killed every reference to the books...
"Duty is heavier than a mountain" they took the easy route and did a "based on" show. Those people should be fired for killing the potential of a very good tv show with fans around the world waiting for decades to happen. It is totally disrespectful.
I recall yelling out WHAT IN THE ABSOLUTE F**** when they stabbed and killed Loial. I had joked with my wife after episode three what could /would be the worst possible outcome of Rafe Judkins writing and direction? And I said, jokingly, "Oh just kill off Loial. I mean why not right?" I couldn't believe it. They did. They went there. What a JOKE THIS SHOW IS. And of course he isn't dead, from the dagger that you can't survive. Nope. Lame, lame, lame. Terrible writing and delivery.
Many theorize that Loial was stabbed in one of his books and is still alive.
@@drakedecker4874 The problem is not the stabbing.
It is the instrument that is used.
This specific dagger is cursed. Any other "pretend killing" would be fine if it wasn't for the zoom in when Fain is sheathing the Dagger from Sadar Logoth.
Yup, if Loial is alive in season 2, they missed the point of the dagger. There is only 2 people in the WoT series that you could stab with that dagger and won't die .. Padan Fain and Matt. Period. Everyone else shrivels up and dies from it in seconds. Flopping on the ground, screaming, skin turning black followed by death.
some of the noises from the background music for this video sound the same as the clinking of my cat eating food from a ceramic bowl, so i kept taking off my headphones to check if my cat was eating
Y'know, lately I've been thinking over Brandon Sanderson's statement of "you will always have the books" as a reason to give the show a rewatch as I may be judging it too harshly and expecting it to be more than it should. This great video helps me realise than yes, I will also have the books, but I will also always have actually good television to dedicated my precious little time to, and this is not it.
The book has a mystery at the start which is "is he really the dragon, or a false dragon?" The new mystery is worse because there is no room for doubt as to whether he is or is just insane
I’m convinced Game of Thrones is the modern day media Alexander the Great.
It rose to incredible heights, conquered the world of media and then died suddenly in its youth, leaving the vast empire it created up for grabs.
Now the squabbling Diadochi (every other fucking fantasy adaptation Amazon can get thier hands on) battle it out to try and recapture the magic of Game of Thrones.
I've always thought the Diadochi wars would make an awesome series.
@@Mpetey123 get on it, Amazon
@@RoshDroz I don't know do you want one more thing destroyed or not lol
Since George R.R. Martin was friends with Robert Jordan, it would be nice if he called Amazon out and said "You guys shouldn't try to turn his story into my series", but I guess he's too busy not finishing his book 🤣
@@AA-hr1bk yeah I know, I was joking
I never knew I wanted an hour long video essay on a show I've never seen based on books I've never read but now I love it
Same, dude. I got weirdly hooked on this.
Ha same though I had faint familiarity with the book series through two songs by one of my favourite metal bands that are about the Wheel of Time books. There is Wheel of Time and Ride Into Obsession, do I know how any of these relate to the book? No not at all but the band is known for writing songs about fantasy series and I know how good the singer can adapt these stories to song also there is some obvious hints to the books that I can pick out especially after watching this video. Watching this video did remind me of the song and now Wheel of Time is stuck in my head.
It wasn’t obvious at all to me who the dragon was until deep into Rand and Matt’s journey to Caemlyn. You’re correct of course that the show is ass.