I used several commanders, and I felt that Tychus p2 was the easiest for me. I fully upgraded Tychus and kept up the E-bay upgrades, and I was able to build 4 outlaws by the time the game ended. I used only Tychus on the map and kept everyone else at home to defend against waves. Though I did use Sirius on the first thrasher because it was more convenient since I had Tychus clearing rocks at the time, but the opposite would be fine too.
Just did Mengsk. I used p1 so I could spam contaminated strike, but honestly, maybe having nukes would have been nice. It was a laugher, though, because my ally was H&H p3 so he made 30 bomb platforms and we just sat back and blew everything up. Hilarious. The only challenge was sharing real estate, but he was considerate and only built near his main so I could use both naturals. GGs!
Completely disagree on Dehaka's choice of units. You want to use mutalisks because - Revive every 60 seconds is forgiving unless you get hit by a nuke combo - They are mobile air units that can attack the trashers from the side, avoiding hybrids, while packleaders can easily clear the areas to reduce enemy forces - their bonus damage to air applies to the trashers and can easily melt them. I did this run yesterday with a lvl 4 Fenix ally who basically did nothing, and I still bamboozled this mutation without much effort.
When I did my Vorazun run, I just used shadow guard early, then built only DTs and just use them like banelings and right clicked thrashers. It wasn't inhumane because they aren't human. And they have at least 2 lives, so, bonus! Amon had a few air units annoying my base, so I dropped a couple of cannons. EZ
Felix is S!!! i literally did nothing except spam shells out of 10 gateways, park them near the ramps and then just " 1 + A click map " gg wp. All this w/o getting the expansion.... The ONLY time i had to actually click trashers is if the enemy has broodlords / swarm host.
I agree more with CtG on this one. To me it's all about consistency - when they were talking about previous comms like Alarak and Artanis one of the arguments was that you didn't have to split attention between base and army, which is a decent argument. Yet for H&H when CtG pointed out that you have to often look away from the army (supply depots, build and use Strikers, place defensive mines etc.) Twotuu was like "ugh sounds like a skill issue lol"... And at the very start he said that tiers for comms are relative to each other and e.g. "how much work you need to do". If something can be a "skill issue" for a lot of players for a commander, but not for most other commanders on the same tier they should be a bit lower no?
@@pulp0negr0 Because P3 Karax can clear most with his topbar and then only Thrashers remain. You also get heal with repair beam and the shell from Karax and his Mirages get damage invuln every couple of seconds. So he is just easier/more consistent. Artanis P3 has the Fanatics to spam but no shell, while P3 Karax gets to spam topbar like crazy.
I was surprised that this didn't get consideration in the video. Most of the discussion seemed focused on what could happen to brutalisks. I thought the locusts would keep the enemy explosions away from the swarm hosts and you could use deep tunnel to escape if walking away would be too slow.
@ indeed. P2 swarm host spam destroys most mutations. Tech up asap for locust anti air (if enemy is air) and attack across the map. Only 5-6 hosts are needed to stop the strongest of attack waves with 0 losses. Did I mention that you can have as many hosts as you like?
Yes, p2 is a good strategy. Twotuuu did a run with CTG a couple days ago with swarm hosts. I think the problem with it is you dont get enough of them early on to deal with the first 2 thrasher areas alone, you need an ally that actually plays together for it to work. If your ally does nothing or wonders off and does their own thing, this strategy wont work.
As with most community sentiment around coop this tier list has me scratching my head. P2 fenix for example is easily S or S+ for this. You put kaladlis and talis on a hotkey with full hp champion hp mastery and blindly a move that hotkey at the objective repeatedly while you macro at home. They survive direct nuke hits if you aren't microing while they rally and kill defenders in groups with every single shell they use. You can use the above strat and win solo while banking thousands of minerals and gas. You don't even need to ever leave your base with the camera. Not saying these guys don't know how to play or anything along those lines, i just think it's impossible to be truly unbias everyone has commander preferences and the more you use a kit the more flexible it seems. Also seems heavily biased based on player skill in weirdly specific cases. Like being hyper critical of again Fenix when his shells can literally never leave home and still win comfortably attacking via minimap. But substantially less critical of losing an entire wave of creepers to a nuke. Losing a wave of creeper hosts costs time which on this mutation is pretty bad. If a host wave dies that's on similar scale to kerrigan dying.
Same story again and again : only talking about positive things on some commanders, negative things on some others... How is everyone in or above A-tier except for the guy with OP Swarm Hosts and the one with Tempests, Phoenixes and Guardian Shell ? I definitely don't find any interest in that kind of tier-lists anymore.
Tier lists are perception bias in co-op. There's definitely bad choices for some mutations certainly but like 95% of them can be beaten with any commander.
I used several commanders, and I felt that Tychus p2 was the easiest for me. I fully upgraded Tychus and kept up the E-bay upgrades, and I was able to build 4 outlaws by the time the game ended. I used only Tychus on the map and kept everyone else at home to defend against waves. Though I did use Sirius on the first thrasher because it was more convenient since I had Tychus clearing rocks at the time, but the opposite would be fine too.
Just did Mengsk. I used p1 so I could spam contaminated strike, but honestly, maybe having nukes would have been nice. It was a laugher, though, because my ally was H&H p3 so he made 30 bomb platforms and we just sat back and blew everything up. Hilarious. The only challenge was sharing real estate, but he was considerate and only built near his main so I could use both naturals. GGs!
just hit 1000 with this muta
congrats!
Congratulations 😙
Thank you!
Completely disagree on Dehaka's choice of units. You want to use mutalisks because
- Revive every 60 seconds is forgiving unless you get hit by a nuke combo
- They are mobile air units that can attack the trashers from the side, avoiding hybrids, while packleaders can easily clear the areas to reduce enemy forces
- their bonus damage to air applies to the trashers and can easily melt them.
I did this run yesterday with a lvl 4 Fenix ally who basically did nothing, and I still bamboozled this mutation without much effort.
_Sergeant Hammer's useless fortress_ :D
I mean, it's the objective, but still true
Also like how we finally covered what the rankings mean
When I did my Vorazun run, I just used shadow guard early, then built only DTs and just use them like banelings and right clicked thrashers. It wasn't inhumane because they aren't human. And they have at least 2 lives, so, bonus! Amon had a few air units annoying my base, so I dropped a couple of cannons. EZ
Like watching the Gilmore Girls :D
(in later seasons Lorelai and Rory sometimes spoke, like, really fast :D)
I use artanis with aerial to focus the lecerator
Felix is S!!! i literally did nothing except spam shells out of 10 gateways, park them near the ramps and then just " 1 + A click map " gg wp. All this w/o getting the expansion.... The ONLY time i had to actually click trashers is if the enemy has broodlords / swarm host.
that bickering back and fourth about han and horner was really hard to watch
I agree more with CtG on this one. To me it's all about consistency - when they were talking about previous comms like Alarak and Artanis one of the arguments was that you didn't have to split attention between base and army, which is a decent argument.
Yet for H&H when CtG pointed out that you have to often look away from the army (supply depots, build and use Strikers, place defensive mines etc.) Twotuu was like "ugh sounds like a skill issue lol"... And at the very start he said that tiers for comms are relative to each other and e.g. "how much work you need to do".
If something can be a "skill issue" for a lot of players for a commander, but not for most other commanders on the same tier they should be a bit lower no?
@@Jedrex899 So how is Karax S-tier with Phoenix sniping and Artanis B-tier with Phoenix or Tempest sniping with Guardian Shell ? 😂
@@pulp0negr0 Because P3 Karax can clear most with his topbar and then only Thrashers remain. You also get heal with repair beam and the shell from Karax and his Mirages get damage invuln every couple of seconds. So he is just easier/more consistent. Artanis P3 has the Fanatics to spam but no shell, while P3 Karax gets to spam topbar like crazy.
For the record, I had Artanis in A tier. And after playing him I still have him in A tier, but just deferred to Twotuuu.
@@wehrwolff6447 Who said Artanis had to be played with P3 ? This is most of the issue : biased comparisons.
Like many others, abathur p2 swarm hosts destroys this mutation.
I was surprised that this didn't get consideration in the video. Most of the discussion seemed focused on what could happen to brutalisks. I thought the locusts would keep the enemy explosions away from the swarm hosts and you could use deep tunnel to escape if walking away would be too slow.
@ indeed. P2 swarm host spam destroys most mutations. Tech up asap for locust anti air (if enemy is air) and attack across the map. Only 5-6 hosts are needed to stop the strongest of attack waves with 0 losses. Did I mention that you can have as many hosts as you like?
Yes, p2 is a good strategy. Twotuuu did a run with CTG a couple days ago with swarm hosts. I think the problem with it is you dont get enough of them early on to deal with the first 2 thrasher areas alone, you need an ally that actually plays together for it to work. If your ally does nothing or wonders off and does their own thing, this strategy wont work.
Nova P3 and pretty much destroyed all the bases with her alone.
As with most community sentiment around coop this tier list has me scratching my head. P2 fenix for example is easily S or S+ for this. You put kaladlis and talis on a hotkey with full hp champion hp mastery and blindly a move that hotkey at the objective repeatedly while you macro at home. They survive direct nuke hits if you aren't microing while they rally and kill defenders in groups with every single shell they use. You can use the above strat and win solo while banking thousands of minerals and gas. You don't even need to ever leave your base with the camera.
Not saying these guys don't know how to play or anything along those lines, i just think it's impossible to be truly unbias everyone has commander preferences and the more you use a kit the more flexible it seems.
Also seems heavily biased based on player skill in weirdly specific cases. Like being hyper critical of again Fenix when his shells can literally never leave home and still win comfortably attacking via minimap. But substantially less critical of losing an entire wave of creepers to a nuke. Losing a wave of creeper hosts costs time which on this mutation is pretty bad. If a host wave dies that's on similar scale to kerrigan dying.
engagement
FIRST
Very easy solo for this mutation, get that free XP bump
Same story again and again : only talking about positive things on some commanders, negative things on some others...
How is everyone in or above A-tier except for the guy with OP Swarm Hosts and the one with Tempests, Phoenixes and Guardian Shell ?
I definitely don't find any interest in that kind of tier-lists anymore.
don't watch it lol
@@NickMaovich Well, I had to watch a few of them to know what I'm talking about.
Tier lists are perception bias in co-op. There's definitely bad choices for some mutations certainly but like 95% of them can be beaten with any commander.