Ben McDaniel Disappearance
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- Опубліковано 24 бер 2021
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze Ben McDaniel disappearance? Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: / drgrande
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"Definitely a nightmare for anyone with claustrophobia or likes the idea of remaining alive" 🤣🤣🤣 I love the dry humor.
That's a good quote! That got me cracking!
Laughed out load at that one for sure 😂
Idk it seems a little unnecessary and kind of mean considering the circumstances 😕
That was pretty funny. It would be funnier if this wasn't so sad.
Or maybe wet humor, not so dry 😂
It's strongly recommended that you have a partner with you when diving, in the same way that it's strongly recommended you use a parachute when jumping out of a plane.
Yeah especially while wearing a "kill me" sign on your back.
"If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous
DB Cooper intensifies
@@2manybooks2littletime25 🤣🤣🤣🇬🇧
I think the fact that Ben was solo is very telling. Hardcore divers tend to find people with similar interests. There should have been no problem finding a dive buddy at a site that caters to cave and tec divers. Yet Ben was alone. This tells me that no one wanted to dive with him. He was actively shunned. There is probably a good reason for that-- the guy was a danger to himself and others. He broke the rules of the site, went into a cave with no training for it, etc. I sure wouldn't dive with someone like that.
While people do solo dive- I do it fairly often- I think in this case it's indicative of a diver that was seen as reckless and a risk by other divers and avoided. When I solo, i restrict myself to easy open water dives. Anything deep, technical or with a difficult entry and exit I would only do with a buddy.
As an Advanced Open Water certified diver I can say for certain that anyone that cave dives without the proper training is greatly increasing thier chances of dying in a scuba diving accident. One of the points any dive instructor will constantly mention in basic training is to never dive in situations in which you are not trained. This includes wreck diving, night diving and ice diving as well as cave diving. Of the various kinds of diving, cave driving the the most dangerous.
I love it when people who really know something comment and share some of their knowledge.
What isf the person has just enough experience to know something should not be attempted. That makes you woner about the state of mind during his last dive and of course when ws that last dive.
As a certified cave diver thank you. Cave diving is not complicated but easily underestimated. Btw Vortex is not a cave that divers tend to enjoy. That locked gate is not liked.
There are some places people are just not meant to be. They are called laws of nature for a reason.
I'll just play it safe and never try diving.
A pitch black, submerged cave that narrows to 10 inches in places. Count me out😨😰
I know, right. Stuff of nightmares.
The joke is that Edd changes size and or shape.
@@flyingfalcon8999 when I was a child in the 1970s my mother worked around marine life research scientists. They often dove to obtain specimens, etc. I remember overhearing conversations among them about how none of them would touch cave diving with a ten foot pole. They explained to me you had to have special training beyond what they had and that you shouldn't ever dive alone. As I recall these scientists approached their diving very systematically as a necessary part of their job. That I recall, they didn't really do it recreationally.
@@DaisyLee1963
Good comment, smart divers know this! Ben’s arrogance aided his demise... he was not certified and broke into the gate.
@@DaisyLee1963 You are correct. Cave diving takes very intense training- as well as the depths Ben was diving is considered 'technical diving' beyond the range of normal recreational diving. Both take training and specialized equipment- and both are very expensive. So my guess is that Ben wanted the achievement without the cost of the training. It's incredibly common, sadly.
As for diving alone- I dive solo sometimes, but only on easy open water dives. Anything deep or difficult I have a buddy that has the same training that I do. People that are really into diving like myself tend to find other people with the same interests. The fact that Ben was solo tells me that he was avoided by the other divers likely because he was known as a risk taker.
I’m only analyzing the amount of “nope” that may be going on in this situation.
So good😂
Hahaha nice.
After a certain point in the cave where tanks can’t fit that’s a good sign to turn back.
Or the gate with the Grim Reaper sign. .... Or IMO, where you can't just breathe in the environment around you and need to carry equipment that gives you time-limited assistance in breathing.
Spatial disorientation maybe? Few experienced cave divers would do this, it is just not safe.
If my tank don't go, I don't go!
First of all… NEVER cave dive without the proper training snd certification. And ALWAYS Duve with a buddy… It seems thst Ben probably broke all five ruk]les of cave diving…plus, he dive alone.’’
Edd Sorensen is arguably one of I the best rescue/recovery diver alive… If he says Ben isn’t the cave…he isn’t there.
I feel so sorry for Ben’s parents.. What a nightmare for them, and their family.
Shame on the authorities who allowed Ben to dive…knowing he was not properly trained… Whomknows how many others were allowed to do this… Cave diving ….evrn for open water instructors…is a whole other level,of diving, requiring its oen skill set.
Thank you Dr. Grande. Nailed it with "reckless behavior often catches up with people . . . it's a logical & foreseeable consequence of their behavior"
I get claustrophobic and I don’t like being underwater. That cave sounds like my actual nightmare.
How terrible for the parents, they've lost two sons first to drugs, and the second .........Who knows ?
The idea of having a missing child or loved one is my worst nightmare. I couldn’t take the not knowing.
@@DottieMinerva Couldn't agree more. No wonder so many of these parents end up committing suicide. This poor family, though. Both their children. My heart goes out to them.
Absolutely! I had the same reaction. Sad
I will say that a buddy is always necessary everytime you dive. That was the training I was taught. The buddy system saved me when I ran out of air during a night dive at about 30 feet.
Solo diving is not uncommon and I have many solo dives myself. But I have hundreds of dives from open water to under ice, high altitude and overhead environments like cenotes. I used to teach scuba as an assistant instructor. So while I do dive alone sometimes- I am very experienced, and even then restrict solo to easy open water diving. Anything deep or technical, I would only do with a partner that had my same level of training.
From 30 feet, you could probably just blast to the surface with little trouble unless it was late into a deeper dive and you've taken on a lot of nitrogen. Even then, you likely would have been okay. But I'm glad you didn't have to find out.
@@thesollylama130 I believe the rented pressure gauge was faulty. Went from 750 to nothing in a few minutes. I did grab my buddy and got one breath then shot to the surface. You're right, I could have just shot to the surface. I had expelled then tried to pull air and nothing. Scary for a trained but vacation dive at night. At least for me. I could never do what you do, cheers and stay safe.
I only do guided dives,but I plan on getting the self-reliant training because I am single and always get paired with some random person.
At times I'll be saddled with a sxxxty buddy . Keeping up with them feels like herding a sheep.
When I travel I don't know the operation either...
(Once the other customer and the guide were tall and slim. I'm chubby and have short legs and small feet. Going against a strong current I just couldn't keep up and fell behind. That's when I decided to get the self-reliant training )
This is perplexing. I’m a diver and you should never dive without a dive partner. I’m shocked the owners of vortex spring would allow people to dive solo.
Yea that’s what annoys me. To dive such a challenging dive without a partner is incredibly stupid
It's really not. As a cave diver must always be self sufficient. A qualified cave diver uses correct equipment and proper rules, relatively safe
@@eaboatnuts76 is that’s why most professional certified cave divers/instructors never dive solo?
Read the info your are spreading. And stop encouraging people with your “relatively safe” bullshit. Ever heard the term “catastrophic equipment failure”? With diving buddy you have at least a chance. Most of the divers died when no one were near to them.
@@user-cl8si1fz7d huh? I don't agree with that..there are many cave divers that dive solo, many technical divers that dive solo, they also dive with teams. Fact is if you far enough or deep enough, no matter what happens, your pretty much on your own. In order to be safe, every diver must be self-sufficient 100%
Well, Dr Grande pointed out that there was a criminal element to the Vortex.
I don’t even like going into dry caves above water.
Thanks Dr Grande.. Now could you please do an in-depth analysis of the 3 hour dog interrogation? I just can't wrap my head around how eight officers were unable to break him...
This comment needs to be pinned.
@@megalopolis2015 ❤️
3 hour dog interrogation?
I’ve worked on cases where we brought in cadaver dogs and after their failure to find the graves, the dogs never, ever gave any explanations as to why they missed the bodies!!!
Imagine diving at a place with "vortex" right in the name and _not_ vanishing mysteriously.
Absolutely!!
Dr.Grande, can you analyze Geraldo Rivera’s failed special ‘Al Capones secret vault’ ? Your brick wall is giving me flashbacks, I still haven’t gotten over the disappointment.
THAT is a good one!
Likely it was just sensationalism.
Best suggestion I have ever seen on here, and the funniest!👏👏👏👏👏👏
Well done on the plant arrangement . ❤️👏
I like what appear to be the two little cactuses with the orange hats. I have one with a purple hat.
The Cactus Family are at rapt attention listening to Dr. Grande. Better than Netflix.
You must put a ton of work in for these videos and how often they are posted! We appreciate you!
P.S. Imagine the stories dogs could tell us .....
Your dog would _never_ rat you out. .... It's the cats talking that we should worry about.
Bunny the talking dog would rat
My dog has so much dirt on me...
"Do you need more death? We've got you covered"...HAH!
Edd is the #1 most qualified and experienced cave/rescue diver on this planet. He has found every single person he is called to help. If Edd did not find him… he’s not in that cave.
The extra d in edd is for diver. He earned it.
@catalyst_99 but ben was physically larger than edd so if there was an area edd couldnt get to, one would think there had to be signs someone had gone through there
Sad case, but the good news is .............Dr Grande, his humour and the cacti are all alive and well.
The wooden cactus is missing today. I'm trying to see if there are any patterns, rhymes and reasons for the Musical Plants.
One day he will be wearing a Cactus Costume
@@brianpratt3224 😀😀😀😀😀
@@brianpratt3224 Well, he wasn't afraid of that Christmas shirt ... thing, so why not 😄
@@brianpratt3224 Lol....I think we have to start a petition for that.
I think its most probable that he drowned by accident and his body was hidden to avoid bad press for the owners and financial liability for the gate being too easy to bypass, OR that he faked dying in the cave in order to escape the financial and emotional baggage of his current life. He may have realized that he would eventually have to go back and face his problems after his beach house vacation and couldnt handle dealing with the stress
Both good ideas. I can never get past the idea that anyone would leave their sweet dog behind intentionally. Weird.
I dont think that they are liable for his death in any way. Theres a sign that says that there is nothing worth dying for in that cave for heaves sake! Its a warning, and he knew the risks. They are in no way responsible for him dying.
@@ilkkarautio2449 a bad rep could be reason enough even if legally safe
@@wordsalad01
The employee did not have to say he opened the gate for Ben. Ben broke in any times and he had no respect for the rules.
@ozymandias nero nulifidian only Dog lovers understand the deep devotion to a Pet.
“Or likes the idea of remaining alive.” I just peed myself 😂😂😂
My dad went out for a pack of smokes and never came back its been 25 years can you tell me what might be going on in this situation?
my god, i'm so sorry!
@@lisabradford8180 id atleast like to know whether or not he ever got those smokes it would bring some closure as adult myself now I can't see how the simple act of buying a pack of cigarettes takes 25 years
@@Bouldah of course you and your family need, deserve some kind of closure and i hope that you get it. i also hope that you and your family have done as well as possible over the years🙏
@@lisabradford8180 thank you so much
@@Bouldah I like that you have some humor in such a life changing circumstance. Sorry for your mysterious loss & I hope he got the smokes.
Dr. Grande may be speculating, but the dog 🐕 knows everything. Thank you Dr. Grande🪴.
hahaha "did you need more death? we got you covered" gold
Scuba diving has always appealed to me but the risk just seems too high when you take it this far
My husband was sick once on bad air- no fun.
Learning is fun coz it’s cool to feel weightless in the safe confines of a pool but all the rest is kinda freaky
Scuba diving can be done safely! I personally just love watching and photographing the fish, no need for anything more extreme. Most divers will never do cave diving.
@Alexander Rew
Some of the best scuba diving can be had at up to 25 feet in depth and with good training that depth can be done relatively safely.
You could also do snorkeling and freediving which means no tanks and can be done at a few feet and still be a great experience.
Scuba is very safe if you follow the rules. Been diving for 30 years. No problems but once. This guy went to an area and couldn’t get back. He broke every single rule and was not even cave certified. He is in there.
I can’t imagine what his family is going through - especially after already losing a son. Dr Grande - Have you heard of the disappearance of Granger a Taylor, a 32 year old man from Vancouver Island, Canada. It’s really intriguing. I think it would be a good case for you to tackle.
Rachel Dolezhal? I'd love to see you cover her, very interesting!
Want my conspiracy theory about her? The NAACP knew the whole time.Once I learned that they didn't allow black people to be president for quite a while..and they did no background check on her? C'mon ..they knew.
She thinks she's black and in actual reality she's white. I would say insane and/or delusional and is profiting off that. Lives in an alternate reality much like others in this day and age.
Oooooh yes! That would be very interesting!!
That'll be a good one. She played the long con.
What's so interesting about yt people blackfishing? She's about as "fascinating" (and offensive) as those minstrel blackface performers...smh
I’m from this area and had never heard of this case. Thanks for covering it.
Dogs good at keeping secrets? My man, have you ever seen a Bush's Baked Beans commercial?
AHAHAHAHA thanks for that flashback 😂
LOL!!
Headphones 🎧...check....coffee.☕.....check..annnnnndd here we go🧠😊
Good video, thanks Dr Grande.
As mother of teenage/young adult sons I feel bad for these parents - they've lost two sons. How unimaginable. But young people so often take risks without considering consequences.
Your final thoughts are excellent, I completely agree with you.👌🏼
I have seen horrible things happen to people due to recklessness, it’s just not worth it.
Thank you as always Dr. Grande!❤️
Unrelated to the case - the color of your shirt is very beautiful. That’s my favorite color.🙂
I've heard this case before and it's so tragic. Personally, I don't believe there's anything nefarious going on, and I don't believe he intentionally killed himself. I think this was a tragic accident and his body is down there somewhere. But the likelihood of him ever being found is slim to none, sadly. My heart breaks for his family.
Thank you Dr. Grande for another professional and unbiased analysis. You and your wit never disappoint. 😉
Hmmm...the bodies of others who disappear during dives are usually found. Its very bad luck to plan a competing business in the guided dive tour business.
@@kristinabliss
It depends on how extensive the cave system is and it also assumes that McDaniel was of a sound mind and would behave as other divers.
He may have went much further than people expect him to have.
@@bighands69 With his tanks left outside the gate? Even if he just...forgot them in a senior moment, how far could he have gotten? They searched and searched.
@@kristinabliss Those are 'stage cylinders'. The kind of diving involved here requires decompression stops at increasingly shallow depths to off gas the nitrogen in your blood. For one- at extreme depth every breath uses far more gas- because it is compressed. So if a full lung of air at the surface is xxx amount, at depth that same lung of air requires several times that much gas. So the deeper you go, the faster you use up gas. That alone means bringing more gas.
Decompression diving requires stops while ascending. This is usually done with gasses with higher oxygen levels as you ascend (oxygen is toxic to humans at high partial pressures so the more oxygen in your gas, the shallower you can dive it).
So those cylinders were likely his deco gas, and he would 'stage it' outside the cave and switch to it as he ascended his deco stops. Lastly--- he would have used something like regular air to get to the depth of the cave entrance, then switched to specialized gasses for the cave portion. So one of those cylinders would have been what he used to get to the cave initially.
So it's not that he went into the cave with no cylinder, the ones outside the cave are simply stagers and his initial descent gas. As they were still in that location- it's actually further evidence that he went into the cave but never came back out.
@@kristinabliss
We are assuming he is of a sound mind and that in his state he intended to actually come out.
It may have been a one way journey for him. The tanks at the gate were there are supplemental supply.
"Need more death? We've got you covered!" LOL
"Reckless behavior often catches up to people." -this this thissss
I'm always curious about how people disappear and we never know what exactly happened 🤔I do agree with your theory Dr.Grande.
Asking myself how did I get addicted to Dr. G.’s videos.😉
The dog didn't tell the police anything. They are good at keeping secrets.😂😂Dr Grande you are hilarious! Please don't ever stop making videos!💙💙
You made one of the most common mistakes non-divers make: you said that the two tanks found at the cave entrance were filled with oxygen, not air. As you usually get technical details right, this one really stood out. In this case, the difference between oxygen and air is crucial.
We also don't usually call them 'tanks' but rather we use the term cylinder.
But-- oxygen is possible in this case. Ben was diving beyond recreational depths and would need multiple gasses and decompression stops. Pure O2 is used as a final deco gas near the surface.
I doubt that is what Dr Grande meant, but just pointing out that pure oxygen on a deco dive is not uncommon, although i would stage it on a drop line rather than haul it on the dive itself.
@@thesollylama130 Right. I just got the info from Wikipedia; it said they checked the cylinders later, and it was air. 115 ft seems kinda deep for pure oxygen. But this guy didn't really know what he was doing anyway, so who knows? The whole story is full of mysteries.
@@sambolino44 Oh I am sure he meant 'air' and not oxygen. I am just playing scuba nerd by pointing out the possibility of oxygen for deco stops.
I would only use pure o2 for that final deco stop at basically safety stop depth around 15 feet.
I would expect he would have a drop gas to get to the cave, probably normal air. Then a gas for the dive itself of Tri-mix or Heliox and at least another gas for deco, probably more- and those would have increasing levels of oxygen as I ascended my stops.
@@thesollylama130 You would. I don't think he knew what he was doing. It's still tragic. I mean, unless he's actually doing that "new life" thing! I bet Dr Grande called it: he died, and the body is either still down there, or those sketchy guys who ran the place did something with it.
Right on time! Looking great Dr. Grande ❤Sending love from Brazil❤
I watch your videos everyday. I'm always looking forward to new ones. Your videos actually inspired me to change my major to psychology. Thanks for all you do!
I enjoy your videos more than all others. You have a way of taking cases I have followed for years and organizing them so they make the most sense. These videos are as close to an answer as we will get without new developments
I think his body is either still in that cave or was disposed of by someone to avoid getting in trouble. Very sad either way
@@therealdeal3672 Caves has varied and weird flows and flow rates. I wouldn't put too much faith in that single method of detection as the be all- end all of searches. Much like a polygraph- it sounds very compelling but in reality is far less so. Most caves have multiple out-flows. There is also that at those depths you run into anaerobic layers and thermocline layers that can further hinder the flow of particles. There is a reason they send divers down and don't just sit outside the cave with a sniffer device. The lack of reading on that device is much less compelling than all the other evidence such as his lack of training or obvious risk taking behaviors.
This is a true mystery! I remember watching something else about the case and it had a leaning towards the owner having some dealings with him and killing him. I like that theory but yours are all valid and sensible! Thanks again for another stimulating topic from Whoville💜
What a mysterious, sad case!
I can't believe all the information you gathered for this!
I love both your telling of stories and your brainy humor!.... "Definitely a nightmare for anyone who is claustrophobic, or who likes the idea of staying alive." 😂
Also loved the one about how good dogs are at keeping secrets! 🐕
This info was all primarily in Wikipedia… or articles easily accessible. Great video still but you could also just do some reading.
Don't go diving in caves. Don't go into caves where the gaps are too small. Be safe.
And don't go strutting around a well established, internationally known diving company planning to start your own competition business.
@@kristinabliss Oh? that may be a good idea when there are crim's about.
@@kristinabliss
If they are well established they will not care.
@@bighands69 Quite the contrary. Its like trash collection gangs. Stepping into their territory is a death wish. I've seen it happen.
@@kristinabliss ....wow!! I forgot about that......good point!
I initially came to this channel for info on narcissism and bpd.
I keep coming back because the content makes me feel comfortable. Here, my mind calms down from the stress or intensity I find elsewhere.
Thank you :)
1:57 am
South Georgia USA
(Sorry for being one of those people who comments random suggestions before watching the video) but can you do a analysis of Sia & maddie Ziegler?
Why do you find it necessary to apologize?
Such an interesting analysis video.Three scenarios seem possible to me. Ben died in the cave and his body was removed. Ben saw some criminal activity and was murdered or thirdly, he simply left the cave and vanished to start a new life. Whatever happened, those poor parents, to have lost two sons is absolutely heartbreaking.
Good morning Dr Grande. What an unusual case. I think your theory that he drowned and his body was hidden, seems to be the only one that makes any sense at all. Love the analysis, found the topic slightly confusing The part about the dog was pure gold. Thank you Dr Grande, hope you have a safe and happy day.
I don't think bringing in criminal conspiracies makes any sense of an otherwise obvious situation.
There is zero reason to think someone would hide his body. And further, zero evidence of that.
What we do have evidence of is a risk taker diving way beyond his training and abilities. Why is that explanation not satisfactory that we need to inject conspiracies and criminal behavior to spice the story up?
Why would a dive shop risk actual criminal behavior to hide a drowned diver? What possible threat would outweigh the risk of years in jail for at least tampering with evidence, and almost certainly making the law suspect you of further foul play?
All dive shops make people sign liability waivers. The cave was clearly marked and locked. No experienced divers with actual training would accompany Ben. There is zero liability threat, zero threat of divers blaming the dive shop, and zero benefit to hiding his body that would out-weigh the jail sentence involved in that.
Frankly, the notion of any foul play runs contrary to reason and evidence.
I don’t have any insight on the disappearance, but the brief description of McDaniel’s personality is dead on. He exuded arrogance like a bad odor.
No , he was not arrogant at all, but the opposite. Unfortunately that night he went too far. He still there, beyond the 5th restriction.
@@eduardotaran1474 Ben? Is that you?
Seriously though, if you think he was the opposite of arrogant, it’s clear you never met the guy.
@Samuel Pierce I have been talking and diving with Ben for more than 3 months . Nobody at Vortex has said that he was arrogant. The evening of the accident, he was very happy because he got a job at Vortex to help me with the cave and basin maintenance. He had a lot of projects and ideas about to have his own diving business, and that job could be a good start. Did you know Ben?
@@eduardotaran1474 Not any more.
The best cave diver and cave rescuer in the world Edd Sorenson has gone down to look for his body and has repeatedly said that Ben McDaniels is not in the cave. Edd said its impossible for anyone to enter the cave without disturbing the mud qnd sediment. He said the entire cave was completely untouched.
But he is there and the bottom wasn't "untouched". We found evidence that Ben was there. Besides that, I sow him coming in and never came out.
I'm neither claustrophobic nor an enthusiast of staying alive and that scares the shit out of me anyway
These disappearance cases are so interesting, and equally heartbreaking for those left behind. Thank you for covering them, never heard of this one!
How I do like your shirt Dr Grande and I love how you arranged the cacti ☺️
Another interesting case, sadly remaining unresolved. I eagerly await your videos every day. Thank you
Dr Grande
Very interesting case, thanks as always for laying this out and logically moving through the possibilities.
I personally find your channel emotionally uplifting and now with over million fans it is a great comfort to me that the incredible efforts required to achieve the excellence in each presentation is appreciated by so many other. Thanks.
'or likes the idea of remaining alive' OMG, I just BUST out laughing! You never disappoint!!!
Cave diving is so dangerous and deadly but yet looks thrilling!
Although I agree, I could never! The ocean scares the shit out of me. I LOVE the beach and I'll go in if the water is calm, but I could never scuba dive, much less cave dive. Omg! 😂😂😂
You can have much the same experience by diving in cenotes in Mexico. They are usually more open than a true cave but will have overhead restrictions and some tight areas. But it's considered much safer than true cave diving.
It is AMAZING down there. One of the best experiences I've had underwater.
Thank you for being here.
It's not thanksgiving day yet, but I'm thankful for Dr. Grande and his marvelous background greenery ♡🌵🌻
Thank you for covering this. This has always been one of those stand-out mystery cases
A very perplexing case. Thank you for the analysis
My conspiracy mind hopes that maybe he ran away to a foreign country to escape his tax debt and to start a new life.
pls do Colin Nathaniel Scott, who dissolved in the Prismatic Pool at Yellowstone because he was trying to "hot pot"
Wasn't he chasing after his dog
@@michealkelly9441 nope, just a dumbass who ignored literally thousands of warning signs trying to preserve his life (I've been there, I've seen them)
Dear Dr G. another excellent analysis with your unique fantastic blend of uplifting satire and dry humour. Very appreciated and totally enjoyable.
Dr. Grande:
I loved this video. It was so interesting and it was great at the end how you went over each scenario. Good job.👍
The dog didn't tell them anything, lol.🐶.. really unfortunate case,,and really intriguing about the caves. I truly hope hes ok somewhere, I feel bad for his parents. The plants seem well today, thank you for the video 🏵🌱🌸🌴🤗
Great channel .. great content brother
Very witty indeed, and the plants are a joy. Very interesting topic. Thanks as always.
I havent heard of this case, which is weird since i usually do read crime/mystery-related forums. Thank you for the video Dr. Grande, im glad to see your channel growing. 👍
why doesn't someone send a robot down there to look with a camera? do they exist?
That was tried and failed.
@@milankatz9628 wait how did it fail? Like why didn’t that tactic work?
@@emily.g.929 The underwater camera was tethered to a long cable and it kept getting caught up and was unable to complete it mission.
You kill me! Sometime I just blank out and wait for your jokes. Lol.
Thanks Dr. Grande. Your analysis was edifying, as usual.
Thank you dr grande I was having a really bad day and you managed to make me laugh I appreciate your content
Thank you Dr Grande for bringing such interesting analysis on some of the more obscure cases. Often, as in this case, I’ve never even heard of it before, so then I go and find some report or documentary on the case. Inevitably it lacks detail, so back to Dr Grande I go - which works for me, as I then watch your analysis twice 😉
Doc , now you’re just covering all my favorite cases .
I had seen a show on that once on Disappeared on ID channel. You had so much more information on the case. Great research ! Plus your sense of humor is fabulous 🤣
UA-cam recommendation newbie here. Love you. Subscribed.
I remember this case from the show Disappeared. I got the feeling after watching it that he faked his death for whatever reason. It’s been awhile so I’m not sure why I believed that but part of it was his body not being in the cave. He was pretty meticulous in his planning of that day as well.
I've seen some odd cases where a couple of people decide to do something stupid or reckless, one dies, the other freaks out, even though they are guilty of nothing more than poor judgement, but decides to hide the body instead of going for help. Fear causes people to make bad decisions.
Awesome analysis. 😎 I enjoyed this very much, thank you. 👍 I noticed, that reckless, self-centered behaviour is on the rise, and safety recommendations aren't taken serious as often, compared to when I was young. People seem to only see themselves.
I have seen this case presented in multiple places but your summary here is the most thorough I have seen. Such a tragedy.
Thank you for your insight Dr..
Thanks for discussing this. I’ve always wondered what happened.
I did a lot of recreational scuba diving. I just always thought that dive partners were required for any dive. I guess it makes sense that at some level, it's OK to dive alone, but I was really shocked that a recreational diver like this was even allowed to dive alone.
Great analysis Dr. Grande!
Try to check out Crazy Eddie Antar. Its fascinating.
The cave sounds like the underground version of Mt Everest, deaths and all.
I’m not sure if someone mentioned this above but I think there is a point of intoxication down below where you become completely confused and disoriented. You basically know that you are dying but can’t find how to get out. I don’t believe there was a crime here, just an unfortunate event and he is probably wedged somewhere unseen.
I think you are talking about Nitrogen Narcosis. That is a common issue at the deeper end of recreational diving. In and of itself it is harmless, and simply ascending a bit will clear the effect. However, it impairs decision making much like alcohol and mistakes at 110 feet rarely turn out well. However Ben was diving far deeper than recreational limits in the cave. Here he would have used a gas such as Tri-Mix or Heliox.
Additionally, oxygen is toxic at elevated partial pressures and this is much more dangerous. Again- alone its not what kills you, but it causes immediate unconsciousness and convulsions so you tend to spit out your regulator and drown. This is a concern with gasses like Nitrox, which is just air with more oxygen replacing some of the nitrogen. Air is normally around 21% oxygen while Nitrox is mixed in the 30-40 % range typically. Because of this, Nitrox increases your No Decompression Limit (bottom time) but reduces the depth you can go to safely, called Max Operating Depth.
In Ben's case, using Tri-Mix or Heliox, there isn't much concern about gas induced medical issues. But we don't actually know what gas he was using, and he would actually be using several which is why there were cylinders found outside the cave. These were stage cylinders.
One was probably regular air to reach the cave entrance. Then he would have switched to Tri-Mix or Heliox and probably had more than one cylinder of that because at depth you use far more gas for each breath. Then after the dive he would need to do several decompression stops while ascending, and he would use yet more gasses for this, normally with increasing levels of oxygen at each stop.
The fact that the cylinders were found at the cave entrance indicates he never came out of the cave. If he had exited the cave, he would have needed to decompress as he ascended.
So all of this taken together, in my opinion, points at an accidental drowning of an inexperienced diver lacking proper training and equipment, and diving alone to boot. No crime, no cover up. In fact a totally predictable and expected result of Ben's reckless behavior.
Ur dry humor gets me through my night shifts ❤❤❤❤
Why would they hide a body when so many people die in the cave anyway? Why hide the body if all his stuff is still there and everyone assumes he died in the cave anyway?
Many did die back in the late 60's and early 70's but now it is very rare especially amongst train cave divers.
Exactly. Hiding a body is strongly motivated after a murder. Planning to start a dive tour business near another one popular with international divers is a really stupid plan. He had no idea how territorial diving guide businesses are.
That and his truck was still in the parking lot so I mean its gonna be assumed he died in that cave anyway. I would think they would at least dump his truck somewhere else if they got rid of his body.
@@KacieCapricorn If a murderer wanted it assumed he died by accident while diving, why would they move the truck?
It's as if you didn't even listen to the story AT ALL .
Love your wry humor and placid delivery style.
Gurus, spiritual awakening, spiritual awakening, epileptic psychosis, manic episodes. So many "gurus " claim to have some psychological experiences.. but not usual to normal human experience. Please give a scientific explanation on spiritual awakenings or emergencies (stan grof). Mystical and spiritual experiences. There is so many channels on theses things
With no body, no equipment or tanks found, the most reasonable explanation would be foul play. Thanks for the intriguing story Doc!
Yeah, seems really obvious to me. Others who die there by accident are generally found. The whole story about the gate being passable while locked going in but needing opened to exit is quite a leap. The idea that an employee put all his gear on and dove down to unlock the gate because an "over-confident" guy on speed planning to open a competing business MIGHT have gone in (and left his tanks at the gate) ...what bullshit.
Right, i agree. My husband has dove this spring and the water temperature is around 58 degrees. It would take a while for a body to decompose at that temperature.
Nope. The most reasonable explanation is still a drowned diver. Everything else makes HUGE leaps and assumptions. There is zero evidence of foul play, but plenty of evidence of reckless, inexperienced diver that got himself killed. In fact to trained divers like myself, this is a completely mundane situation. Lacking a body...in a cave system deep underwater- is not exactly shocking.
What would be shocking is a connection between a guy taking insane risks and his death being anything but the result of that poor decision making. What a coincidence would that be-- that a guy that is taking literally the most risks possible while diving--isn't killed by diving but rather is the victim of some random, out of the blue crime that just happens to take place while he is engaging in incredibly risky behavior?
That is frankly beyond reasonable given the information at hand.
I believe he said they did find some air tanks.
I love your humor!! 💙
I think it's most likely he committed suicide in the surrounding forest and set up his spare tanks (with the wrong gas) in the cave to make it look like a diving accident in the hopes of making his death somewhat less agonising for his parents and brothers.
(Not sure it worked.)
Personally I think the most likely scenario was that he accidentally drowned and the owner disposed of his body to avoid negative press attention to the vortex and his business.
Look at all the people who climb mountains, skydive, race cars, surf, etc. despite the fact that these activities are inherently dangerous, i.e. there is no way to make those activities safe, only somewhat less deadly. Scuba is similar. It doesn't attract cautious people. A few deaths in the cave would only be an attraction to them.
Hello Dr.Grande,I think you're the only one who is funny sometimes with your analysis.Good humour😊🌵💜
We met Ben about three months before the accident.
He started diving at Vortex cave and he decided to make a new map of the system.
He took a surveillance course and started diving at least two time a day to get familiarized with the cave.
He divided the cave in small sections and mapped one section at a time. He found the way to bypass the
gate without the padlock key replacing the lower hinge with a small chain and his own padlock (still
there today).
One day I found one of his notebooks and maps, far behind the gate and very far and deep into the
system.
I told him abut it and he asked me not to tell anyone until he finished the new map.
He agreed to eventually take the classes and test to become a professional cave diver and then he
would be able to get the main key for the gate.
At that point Vortex already had 3 maps of the cave. One of them, the oldest one, was made in the early
80’s by Mr. Wayne Kinon, an experienced cave diver and instructor. The second one was made by Jason
Gully and Steve Keena and their team in the early 2000’s and the third one was made by myself in 2005.
It took me 12 dives deep into the system to be able to draw the map.
Ben McDaniel’s map took over 100 dives and his map was ten times more detailed and accurate than
ours.
Over the last three months he asked me many times for a job at Vortex. I promised him that I would ask
the owner, Mr. Kelly, but I did not have the chance to do it.
The evening of the accident he asked me about the job again, he said he wanted very badly to work with
us in the water. Mr. Kelly was close by that day, and I introduced him to Ben and explained that it would
be very useful to have another diver to help me and I left them to get acquainted.
30 minutes later Ben came back looking very happy saying that he got the job and wanting to start right
away because he knew that we (Chuck Cronning and I) were ready to dive to fix the lights in the cave. I
told him that this wasn’t a three men job so he would be starting the next day.
He wanted to make one night dive anyways, so I filled his 5 tanks. The two for his sidemount with 28%
oxygen (at his request) and the rest with air (21% O2).
After we finished fixing the lights, we started swimming out and we crossed paths with Ben who was on
his way to the gate. I decided to open the gate for him because the way he was bypassing it was kind of
dangerous since the equipment can get hooked or tangled in the bars (that gate is not in the best
conditions).
Ben made the “O.K” signal and passed the gate. That was the last time we saw him.
On our way out we saw one of his stage tanks close to the gate (he should have left it at least 200 ft
after the gate but it depends on how far he was planning to go).While we were doing our deco we saw 2 more stage tanks (Ben’s tanks) tied to the 25 feet deep air box,
one of the tanks was full and the other one had about ¼ left.
I think he was breathing from that tank buying some time until we finished or job, probably he didn’t
want us to see how he was bypassing the gate.
A few minutes later we finished our deco and got out of the water. Once on the dock, Chuck asked me
why I had opened the gate. A few minutes later a group of divers asked us if we had found a missing
light, Chuck still had some air and went in looking for it.
He didn’t find it. At that point Ben should have been starting his deco but we didn’t worry yet.
After changing clothes, we went to my trailer to get some coffee and watch the video we took while
working with the lights. The video shows Ben coming and passing the gate.
When Chuck left, I was supposed to look if Ben was already out, but I forgot about it and went to sleep.
Next morning, I left early to Pensacola to do some paperwork. When I came back, later that evening I
saw Ben’s truck and his stuff (towel, hat, etc) on the table close to the air station.
I didn’t pay too much attention to it since he was coming almost every day and forgot we was supposed
to start working with us this very same day.
Next morning, I found the truck, towel, hat, everything on the very same spot I saw it the day before. It
was then when I knew something was wrong.
I went in the water and found his stage tanks in the same position they were 2 days before. The gate
was opened exactly as I left it 2 days prior. It was then when I realized Ben never left the cave.
I told the other employees to call the sheriff, then I made a dive up to the fourth restriction without
finding Ben.
We set up 2 teams of cave divers to check beyond the fourth restriction but only one, James Tollens,
made it after the fifth and found clear evidence of fresh marks on the bottom and a roll of line that I
knew wasn’t there before.
I went to check that, and I saw up to the “Pine Straw” room when the passage makes a sharp left turn,
and it is very difficult to turn around.
I knew that Ben was very close behind that point, but I turned around with some difficulties. I was diving
with no mount, but I needed one more tank. Last time I was beyond the fifth restriction I was a few
years younger.
A few days after the accident Ed Sorensen tried to find Ben but I believe he looked for the body in the
upper level of the system after the “T” room, before the third restriction. That was OK since I never
checked that part of the cave. He made a 35-minute dive while Ben’s parents were waiting on the dock.
He didn’t find anything.
A few months later, Steve Keena, one of the divers that made one of the first maps who also installed
the end of the second line went further than anyone else looking for Ben but now he wasn’t able to passthe “Pine Straw” room because something stopped his “no mount” tank in front of him and prevented
him from going any further even when he pushed his tank forward with no success.
Ben’s body was on the way. The silty conditions and the lack of space did not allow him to see what was
in front of him. Later that day he said he does not know what it was, maybe mud, clay or something
else.
Many divers are saying that they are 99% sure Ben is not there, but I am 100% sure he is before the end
of the second line after the fifth restriction, next to the “Pine Straw” room.
To find him is not impossible but it would be very difficult at that point to turn around and get out.
It is easy to go in, but not easy at all to ge out.
Now, after 12 years Ben’s body is covered with sand and debris and the water made its way around, but
he is still there.
There is no “mystery” or “conspiration”, it was just and unfortunate accident that happened when a
brave diver went too far with the wrong equipment.
He should have been using “no mount” instead of “sidemount” in that part of the cave and I should have
allowed him to come work with us that night, if I would have, he would still be alive today.
Ben’s father told me that I should not feel bad about opening the gate because he knows there is no
gate that would have sopped him from going to the other side, it was his nature.
By the way, Chuck and I passed the polygraph test at the Sheriff’s DP.
Wow. Thank you for your open and honest account. A saying my dad told me was” there are old divers and bold divers, but no old bold divers”….. I think he was referring to oil rig divers but it’s always stuck with me.
@@louise2467 yes sr👌
@@louise2467 yes, I don't know why they don't care to ask us what really happened that night. The real story should be part of the documentary .