I am an ex AA flight attendant. I sure miss my flying days. I LOVED the "Super 80!"❤️It was my favorite aircraft to fly! 🥰 I have AA memorabilia in my home now, including a MD-80 replica model.
As a retired ramp agent for DL, I was ecstatic when they stopped flying them. Labor intensive, the bins were all beat to hell, and bins 5 and 6 reeked every time the rear lav was flushed. Give me an A320 anytime! Hope you're enjoying retirement Tracy! Mark (MSP) 😉
@Mark-pp7jy oh my, a yr later, and I'm just now seeing and reading this post! Did DL fly MD-80's back then? I wanted back then, to become a DL flight attendant, but couldn't because my stepmom worked for Delta. So I went to AA, and was hired. I miss my flying days, but you couldn't pay me enough to fly today! Everything is so different now, and NOT for the best!😞
Thank you Allec, just shows how one mistake in maintenance can bring down an aircraft. Glad they got back despite so many system failures on the return.
Same airline that used to lift DS-10 engines off their pylons back into place with forklifts after maintenance instead of doing the job the right way and got 271 people killed when a stressed pylon snapped and crashed the flight on takeoff in Chicago in 1979 .
@@billolsen4360 Thanks Bill - seems like AA maintenance guys shouldn’t be employed on a fairground. Wonder if they’re any better forty years later, with all the cost and time pressures now.
This wasn't one mistake. The ATSV was replaced six times in twelve days. That's one small mistake and five big/repeated mistakes right there. Everyone knows the part is not the problem if the issue persists after the part is replaced.
@@DeltaFoxtrotWhiskey3 You’re right. The definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. The boss of the maintenance team should have been put in the jump seat for that flight.
There were three separate emergencies faced by this crew (left engine fire and shutdown, electrical failure and right system hydraulic failure). It would be interesting to find out how all of these issues are connected. Great job by the Captain, FO and off duty Pilot.
The heat/fire was mostly at the left engine gearbox as you can see from the burned lower cowling photo. The gearbox houses the starter, hydraulic pump, and CSD generator. So if the uncontrolled starter damaged the gearbox it could have taken out the left hydraulic pump and left generator... if not then both of these would go off when the engine was shutoff to pull the firewall handle and blow the bottles... apparently the AC crosstie failed to power the left bus (from the right bus or APU) maybe due to fire damage. I'm guessing that the right hydraulic system was working the entire time but cockpit indicator read zero because it is an AC powered gauge. The brakes and reversers have separate accumulators so they will work even if both hydraulic pumps fail and you have no AC power. Agreed great job by the crew!
@@joefw2446 I was with TWA at LAX. I did not work the MD80 often. This information does not make sense. The filter is internal to the valve if it is like other A/C. The valve was replaced several times. I no longer have access to the MM.
@@jayreiter268 I no longer have manual access either and working from memory .... In this case, the filter in question is in a 1/4 inch pneumatic line that provides 'muscle' to operate the valve. The filter is mounted near the 3 oclock position on the the engine and the line then runs several feet to the valve. The filter is not part of the valve assy. My understanding is loose parts floating around inside the filter randomly allowed or blocked air flow, so the valve worked intermittently. Then loose parts/debris from the filter contaminated the valve causing it to open just after takeoff causing the crisis. Crazy stuff for sure... The NTSB/FAA final report has a photo of the disassembled defective filter.
@@joefw2446 Thanks I should have dug into the accident report. I never manually started ( Hammer start) an engine. On the 707 there was a loop in the pylon or cowling. A tool that looked like a hammer was used to pull the loop activating the valve. These fellows might have been reluctant to stick their thumb in a hole.
As a retired aircraft mechanic, I can tell you that the most hated write-ups are the "intermittent" problems...if you can't catch it in the act, where do you look if the problem is no longer there when you get to the aircraft? Tear out every nut, bolt, screw, wire, connector, bit and piece of a system to inspect it? That could take hours to days to perform. It is a situation that is ripe for pressure to "let's get this thing in the air" from every level of involvement. Not surprised the mechanics chased their tail with this one, especially since there was no technical guidance in the books.
It is strange that the crew registered the start valve open light was illuminated early in the flight but did nothing to isolate the valve. It is well known, on engines such as the various types of Pratt and Whitney JT8D, that an open start valve at high engine power will over-speed and disintegrate causing unknowable damage inside the engine nacelle. Damage can be avoided by simply isolating the affected engine pneumatically from the aircraft by closing the applicable engine bleed valve. On DC-9 aircraft, this was achieved using a manual lever on the back of the centre controls console. MD-82 aircraft may be different in this regard, however, pneumatic isolation, by whatever means, is necessarily the first thing a pilot must accomplish as soon as the start valve open light is noticed. They should not have missed this.
Love the sleek shape of the MD-80/82 with the smaller rear fuselage mounted Bi-turbines & uncluttered wings. Very quiet for passengers & crew, unless seated in the rear.
@@nommadd5758 Positives and negatives to any configuration, of course -- otherwise they would all look exactly the same for a given requirements specification. What "inherent" ones are you thinking of? Deep stall recovery? Rudder blanking from reverse thrust?
@@marcmcreynolds2827 Good to ask those clarifying questions. "What do you mean by that ?" Most needed, most unasked lol ! I'm less particular. I fly whatever's going, where I'm going...
Yes, rudder blanking in reverse thrust, the loss of elevator effectiveness in a deep stall, some of the quirks with Douglas designs in general (acme nut jackscrews instead of a recirculating ball like Boeing uses, for example). Douglas tended to use cables wherever Boeing would use hydraulics, but they both worked. However, I HAVE heard of less than complimentary nicknames for the MD-80 series, like "Long Beach Death Tube". . .
@@marcmcreynolds2827 : You mention good points. When there is a loss of pitch control planes with rearward mounted engines tend to nose over while those with under-wing mounted engines tend to pitch up giving flight crews more control options. I'm thinking specifically of Alaska Air flight 261.
This aircraft should never have left the gate but they might not have known that. Still with six previous no start incidents it should have been grounded.
No Way !! Just duct tape it & get going. After all, we have a schedule to stick to, right ???? Taking the time to actually "diagnose it properly" would eat into profits.........can't have that. Profit is #1 Schedule is # 2 Safety (or whatever) is # 3. That's how airlines work.
@@brucevrooman6107 I know, right? The left engine didn't start on the ground. If, for some reason, it stopped in mid-air they could always have someone go out on the wing and start it again, right? ;-)
@@BillGreenAZ Bill, you (and others) seem to infer incompetence by the crew. Since you (and others) are obviously not knowledgeable about commercial aviation, why make blanket statements in a subject area you are ignorant about? Ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge and/or experience. Commercial aviation has a system to deal with maintenance discrepancies. The crew complied with the system as they properly should have, then dealt with the follow on issues in a professional manner as they arose. And yet you and others who have no knowledge of the way the system works chose to denigrate the crew and the airline. If the crew varies from the procedures set in place to deal with discrepancies, they will likely get a call from management and have to explain their actions/decisions. The idea of restarting the engine should it fail in flight is not a reasonable projection. But assuming such an event occurred, there is most likely an air start procedure defined for this engine that doesn’t require the ground based starting system. Typically, it involves reaching a certain indicated airspeed to have the turbines rotating at sufficient speed to introduce fuel and ignition. That’s kinda like if you go to start your car but the battery is dead and you can’t jump start it. If you have an automatic transmission, you’re probably out of luck. But if you have a manual transmission and a convenient hill, you can bump start the engine from 2nd gear. Bottom line, the crew dealt with all aspects of this flight in a competent and professional manner in my opinion and do not deserve all the armchair quarterback criticisms. Hope that helps explain.
@@muffs55mercury61 That would be easy to jump to that conclusion. But the reality is the captain would review any logged/observed maintenance discrepancies and make sure everything is compliant with the regs and the MEL before he signs off and accepts the aircraft. This pattern of failures appears to originate with the manufacturer and also involves the airline’s maintenance program. The flight crew did exactly what they were trained and expected to do.
@@speedlever Who in their right mind would instruct a flight crew to take off in a plane that had this record of no-start events? This is why this event happened. It's just irresponsible.
I have seen so many instances where the captain ignores an underlying fault, because "it fixed itself". Faults never fix themselves. This is common sense but why don't pilots have this? Maybe it's pressure from the airline and get-there-itus. The flight crew should never have taken off with the knowledge they had.
I was calling them the "Mad Dog" from the first time they flew in the late 70s early 80s. I used word-recognition tricks to remember acronyms, but it's funny how everyone else was calling them the "Mad Dog" at the same time. I called it that because I always sat in the back in the bulkhead seats, where the engines could get mighty noisy. The last time I flew to Florida I was in an MD-88 and sitting right next to an engine, but it was very quiet. The cowling was inches from my face. My favorite window seat on the plane.
Loss of hydraulic power was caused by? I suppose electrical power loss must be related to the fire on number 1. Plus the APU wouldn’t start? Doesn’t exactly instill confidence in AA maintenance.
Hi Slide. "Large companies..." Small companies are exempt? Or did someone just not do their job correctly.? I've worked for large companies. I was demanded, and rewarded, to think inside, outside the box, and every which other way. Your comment seems to be myopic.
@@kimmuckenfuss2284 Hello Kim. Sorry if I offended you. I did not mean to do so. But you ask two questions, and I will answer them. I can take offense if a statement or comment bothers me. And you actually answer your own question with the single word "nebulous". Yes, it was nebulous, and that can be called out. Nothing wrong with that. I am sometimes nebulous and take criticism for it. Now, what's wrong with me? I have an approach that precludes discussing my weaknesses in public. Well, aside from being, now and then, nebulous. I could ask what's wrong with you, but I won't. Oops. I guess I just did.
The pilots got the plane to the ground with no injuries or casualties. A medal for all of them. And someone needed to be fired in the maintenance department. Nice production, Allec-
As a member of the "moron mechanics," I'll give you a little insight into the process. We must, at all times, follow the maintenance manual. In this time critical situation we will be referenced to a flow chart or "fault tree" , which will step out the diagnostic process that must be followed, WE WILL GET SEVERELY REPRIMANDED IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG AND WE WERE NOT FOLLOWING THE MANUAL!!". if the process says test items A B and C and they check out, then repace item D. Then that is what is done. If the aircraft now starts, as was mentioned here, then we must conclude the problem is fixed. The moron mechanics you speak of may well have been seperate groups of guys in different cities that had never met each other. There is a group of overseer's called "maintenance watch" that track trends that should have, and may well have, been onto this problem. But to blame the mechs is outright wrong.
@@watsisbuttndo829 people that have never touched a tool let alone work on aircraft will never know. As A&P's, we can't just take apart whatever we want when we want. They have never worked on tired old parts that may be stuck/sticking, etc. Im not sticking up for people doing a shit job but defending the rest of us from the clueless public.
@williammooney8499 whos "they"?. In a fleet, the size of Americans, can pretty much guarantee you it was a different bunch of guys each time. Possibly on opposite sides of the country. Possibly never worked on that particular jet before. Yet the same issue kept happening?. What piece of this puzzle stayed the same??. MAINT MANUAL!!.
well, looks like i'm gonna die. seeing pieces leave the right engine. you could hear it power down. perfectly normal landing, arrival. this is why the crew are paid what they are. good vid.
I have a friend who used to work at the United Airlines Maintenance Center in San Francisco. He said a lot of the aircraft maintenance workers were just plain ol' losers.
Allec . I don’t know how others feel, but in my opinion it is unnecessary to run that annoying fire alarm bell for so long in the video. Thank you for your hard work. Love your videos.
A great video as always Allec, but there was a lot of technical detail there, which, without an in-depth knowledge of the ATSV and attendant components, washed over me. It would have been great if that narrative overlaid the relevant technical drawings. Please keep up the good work though!
At 10:00 the “ATSV had been replaced six times during the 12 days period…”.🤔 “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” A. Einstein. No really, how can a maintenance crew replace 6 times the same part and not suspect they were barking at the wrong tree?🤌🏻🤯🙄🤦♂️
A number of people really dropped the ball on this one. I would think a nineteen year old aircraft would get maintenance checks more often. It seems like the maintenance crew were just putting a band aid on the problem. This could have been a much more serious accident.
So an engine fire caused the cockpit door to be having a problem staying closed and the right separate independent hydraulic system failed, and the nose gear wouldn't lock down and the 2nd fire bottle wouldn't fire-and the Captain lost all his instruments? I think junior in the right seat was part of the problem, none of these things had anything to do with an engine fire, except possible loss of engine indications from harness damage at the engine. None of which was explained in the video.
Should this plane have flown? Were the pilots given a POS to do the best that they could? The aircraft had multiple major systems that were not functioning correctly.
Did the NTSB actually recommend that American Airlines get its Analysis and Surveillance System in order, or did they tell them to "shape their ASS up"?
I love you allec you are a amazing aviation person that I've watched for 3 years now crazy how I'm still watching you anyway can you please do chalks ocean airways flight 101❤❤❤❤🎉🎉😊
Exactly. They suffered 3 separate emergencies. It looked like, from the video, they hand to land before running any checklists for right system hydraulic failure. Braking, reverse thrust, landing gear, nosewheel steering, aft airstair, flaps and rudder would all be, at least partially, affected. I don't think they evacuated but probably needed a tow off the runway. Just curious.
Although this was NOT the event, comedian Richard Jeni tells a hilarious story about being forced to sit in the back row of an American Airlines plane and a fire emergency that caused a flight attendant to just go bananas. Look up Richard Jeni Airline Revelation.
THIS was years ago on one of the few flights I ever took.......I guess they knew one engine had a starting problem cause they called who ever guessing maintenance and the guy litany had a Brass Hammer opened the cowling and hit something 2 or 3 times closed the cowling and it started and off we went.........sort of was startling to say the least, one time I wish did not have a window seat
Great vid and explanation of a little heard of incident! Allec, can you cover Delta flight 1288 that had an incident in Pensacola, FL in 1996 IIRC. Thanks!
@burt2481 Since this is the 7th time you've asked this question and it has been explained to you six times, you must have Alzheiner's. Please see a doctor.
Sounds like too many A & P mechanics are non-intuitive "parts changers", rather than possessing an integrated + comprehensive knowledge of these Jet Turbine systems. This is why they kept changing the valve vs rectifying the Air Filter deficiency. Guys, if you train your son's - (and daughters too) to be observant & curious about all their mechanical stuff - bikes when young, cars / trucks later on, they'll grow up being PROBLEM SOLVERS, not mere parts changers. PTL no lives lost over this one !
Sorry Allec , I pressed the wrong Button on the screen , I have since given the Video a " Thumbs up " , I have always liked your Video's , Be Well my Friend . 😊👍
If you click a don't like or a like, if you click it again it reverses what you did, so if you accidentally click one of them you can undo it. It won't count it as two down votes, for example.
The mechanics didn't want to bring a ladder, just a stick in the button ... laziness does not pay. At least it ended reasonably well, an inexpensive lesson by aviation standards.
Probably they weren't too fond of putting their hand on that starter as it's very hot and if the valve stuck, which does happen, it will explode destroying your hand.
great video bro can you please do Lufthansa Flight 181 please it is a very good video please carry on with what you are doing these are some great videos thanks
When we hear stories about airlines ignoring maintenance in the US, it reminds us that we are truly a third world culture based on corporate greed and bad practices. "Passenger safety is our first concern."
Then it's a third-world culture with coicidentally a much better than third-world accident rate. Outliers are the stuff UA-cam videos are made of, so forming opinions around them might not result in especially reliable opinions.
This was all weird. A mechanic had to manually start the engine? Was a technician lifting the hood ahead of the cockpit and checking the dipstick? Was another outside using window cleaner on the glass? Sounded like a deleted scene from Airplane. This whole thing was not encouraging at all. Massive oversight by all concerned. Glad very few are in service. Well done the crew for getting her down while it was in such bad shape. I was not expecting a happy ending. Some of procedures they did or did not follow, or interrupted unnecessarily, perturbed me though. The technical "explanation" meant nothing to no one again except maybe an engineer for that engine. Massive cock up all around and just shows a part almost no one knew existed will kill you, and worse, the manufacturer, the airlines and the maintenance engineers had no idea it might go wrong so there was nothing to check. Okay someone massively missed a clearly visisble problem, but if it was not on their what - to - do - if list then who is at fault? Was it ever reported but then ignored. Planes, don't you love them until a part in one kills you.
Why is no explanation given for the lack of right hydraulic pressure and lack of power to the left flight instruments? The engine start valve is less mysterious than these other malfunctions. The APU would not start either. This airplane had a bad day in more ways than one. And with a fire light illuminated the captain interrupted execution of the engine fire checklist to brief the flight attendants? What is the explanation for that?
Okay with all this he said she said..blah blah...is anyone ever held accountable for a poorly maintained jet liner? And BTW why does Capt have to brief the flight attendants?? That was the most bizzare statement ever.
What kind of weather they will encounter. Maybe to reassure them what kind of maintenance is needed. What parts work and what do not (like the lavatory). Any VIPs that may be on the flight (like the Transportation Secretary & Sky Marshalls) .
Why in the hell would you continue the flight if the engine would not start as expected? I wouldn't take off in my car under these circumstances!!! The flying public deserves better and safer operations than this. At least I do!
Because the failure of the ATSV was covered by the MEL. So they were legal to go. I wish there was a follow up on why they also lost right hydraulics and why they had partial panel too. That’s a lot of failures that can’t be attributed to a single engine failure.
If that engine couldn’t start on its own, and they had to get others to manually start. As the captain, I would not want that plane to leave the ground.
*It appears that the fire was the result of someone IN THE COCKPIT prying on the manual start override button!* Who did that? Why in the world would you risk doing that?
It's been a while since I flew the Mad Dog. But I don't recall a manual start override button in the flight deck. This would be done from the engine. All the pilots did was hold the start switch down.
@@DrSeuss-nv9hw Correct. There were three ways to open the start valve... 1. Cockpit switch that controlled a solenoid on the valve.... 2. Override button on the valve that moved the solenoid manually... 3. Hex drive on the valve to be used with a special wrench to open the valve manually. The override button was deactivated on all valves after this incident.
This situation is total BS. 🤨 What's next?? Cranking the motor over with a handle?? Who ever heard of manually starting an engine. And none of them even seemed concerned about it. 🤦♀ That plane never should have left the airport. 🤬 I've been waiting for a #1 reason not to fly. Well, here it is.
Ask the passengers if they think the plane should take off with one of two engines faulty. This is wrong no matter what excuse there was for starting the engine with force. The level of stupidity is sky high, This reach Russian levels of safety.
Boeing bought McDonnell-Douglas. Although the MD series was renamed (ex. Boeing-MD82), the MD95 had it's "MD" completely removed. Now known as the Boeing 717, it is operated by Delta, Hawaiian and Qantaslink.
I am an ex AA flight attendant. I sure miss my flying days. I LOVED the "Super 80!"❤️It was my favorite aircraft to fly! 🥰 I have AA memorabilia in my home now, including a MD-80 replica model.
I wonder if the late Dave Drach ever piloted that aircraft in the video (would probably have been years earlier)
As a retired ramp agent for DL, I was ecstatic when they stopped flying them. Labor intensive, the bins were all beat to hell, and bins 5 and 6 reeked every time the rear lav was flushed. Give me an A320 anytime! Hope you're enjoying retirement Tracy! Mark (MSP) 😉
@Mark-pp7jy oh my, a yr later, and I'm just now seeing and reading this post! Did DL fly MD-80's back then? I wanted back then, to become a DL flight attendant, but couldn't because my stepmom worked for Delta. So I went to AA, and was hired. I miss my flying days, but you couldn't pay me enough to fly today! Everything is so different now, and NOT for the best!😞
Thank you Allec, just shows how one mistake in maintenance can bring down an aircraft. Glad they got back despite so many system failures on the return.
Same airline that used to lift DS-10 engines off their pylons back into place with forklifts after maintenance instead of doing the job the right way and got 271 people killed when a stressed pylon snapped and crashed the flight on takeoff in Chicago in 1979 .
@@billolsen4360 Thanks Bill - seems like AA maintenance guys shouldn’t be employed on a fairground. Wonder if they’re any better forty years later, with all the cost and time pressures now.
This wasn't one mistake. The ATSV was replaced six times in twelve days. That's one small mistake and five big/repeated mistakes right there. Everyone knows the part is not the problem if the issue persists after the part is replaced.
@@DeltaFoxtrotWhiskey3 You’re right. The definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. The boss of the maintenance team should have been put in the jump seat for that flight.
I wonder if I ever was on that particular aircraft. Those Super 80s were quite nice. Especially if you sat near the front. Pretty quiet and smooth...
There were three separate emergencies faced by this crew (left engine fire and shutdown, electrical failure and right system hydraulic failure). It would be interesting to find out how all of these issues are connected. Great job by the Captain, FO and off duty Pilot.
Definitely...like flying with an arm and leg tied behind their back
The heat/fire was mostly at the left engine gearbox as you can see from the burned lower cowling photo. The gearbox houses the starter, hydraulic pump, and CSD generator. So if the uncontrolled starter damaged the gearbox it could have taken out the left hydraulic pump and left generator... if not then both of these would go off when the engine was shutoff to pull the firewall handle and blow the bottles... apparently the AC crosstie failed to power the left bus (from the right bus or APU) maybe due to fire damage. I'm guessing that the right hydraulic system was working the entire time but cockpit indicator read zero because it is an AC powered gauge. The brakes and reversers have separate accumulators so they will work even if both hydraulic pumps fail and you have no AC power.
Agreed great job by the crew!
@@joefw2446 I was with TWA at LAX. I did not work the MD80 often. This information does not make sense. The filter is internal to the valve if it is like other A/C. The valve was replaced several times. I no longer have access to the MM.
@@jayreiter268 I no longer have manual access either and working from memory .... In this case, the filter in question is in a 1/4 inch pneumatic line that provides 'muscle' to operate the valve. The filter is mounted near the 3 oclock position on the the engine and the line then runs several feet to the valve. The filter is not part of the valve assy. My understanding is loose parts floating around inside the filter randomly allowed or blocked air flow, so the valve worked intermittently. Then loose parts/debris from the filter contaminated the valve causing it to open just after takeoff causing the crisis. Crazy stuff for sure... The NTSB/FAA final report has a photo of the disassembled defective filter.
@@joefw2446 Thanks I should have dug into the accident report. I never manually started ( Hammer start) an engine. On the 707 there was a loop in the pylon or cowling. A tool that looked like a hammer was used to pull the loop activating the valve. These fellows might have been reluctant to stick their thumb in a hole.
The McDonnell Douglas Super80 was a great jet. I last flew an American MD-82 in January, 1990 to Tampa, FL.
As a retired aircraft mechanic, I can tell you that the most hated write-ups are the "intermittent" problems...if you can't catch it in the act, where do you look if the problem is no longer there when you get to the aircraft? Tear out every nut, bolt, screw, wire, connector, bit and piece of a system to inspect it? That could take hours to days to perform. It is a situation that is ripe for pressure to "let's get this thing in the air" from every level of involvement. Not surprised the mechanics chased their tail with this one, especially since there was no technical guidance in the books.
It is strange that the crew registered the start valve open light was illuminated early in the flight but did nothing to isolate the valve. It is well known, on engines such as the various types of Pratt and Whitney JT8D, that an open start valve at high engine power will over-speed and disintegrate causing unknowable damage inside the engine nacelle. Damage can be avoided by simply isolating the affected engine pneumatically from the aircraft by closing the applicable engine bleed valve. On DC-9 aircraft, this was achieved using a manual lever on the back of the centre controls console. MD-82 aircraft may be different in this regard, however, pneumatic isolation, by whatever means, is necessarily the first thing a pilot must accomplish as soon as the start valve open light is noticed. They should not have missed this.
Ok this guy needs to get 1 million subscribers
K just unsubscribed,
@@Capecodham no I wont
Love the sleek shape of the MD-80/82 with the smaller rear fuselage mounted Bi-turbines & uncluttered wings.
Very quiet for passengers & crew, unless seated in the rear.
They look good but I will never fly on a 't-tail' (inherent design deficiencies).
@@nommadd5758 Positives and negatives to any configuration, of course -- otherwise they would all look exactly the same for a given requirements specification. What "inherent" ones are you thinking of? Deep stall recovery? Rudder blanking from reverse thrust?
@@marcmcreynolds2827
Good to ask those clarifying questions.
"What do you mean by that ?"
Most needed, most unasked lol !
I'm less particular.
I fly whatever's going, where I'm going...
Yes, rudder blanking in reverse thrust, the loss of elevator effectiveness in a deep stall, some of the quirks with Douglas designs in general (acme nut jackscrews instead of a recirculating ball like Boeing uses, for example). Douglas tended to use cables wherever Boeing would use hydraulics, but they both worked. However, I HAVE heard of less than complimentary nicknames for the MD-80 series, like "Long Beach Death Tube". . .
@@marcmcreynolds2827 : You mention good points. When there is a loss of pitch control planes with rearward mounted engines tend to nose over while those with under-wing mounted engines tend to pitch up giving flight crews more control options. I'm thinking specifically of Alaska Air flight 261.
This aircraft should never have left the gate but they might not have known that. Still with six previous no start incidents it should have been grounded.
No Way !! Just duct tape it & get going. After all, we have a schedule to stick to, right ???? Taking the time to actually "diagnose it properly" would eat into profits.........can't have that. Profit is #1 Schedule is # 2 Safety (or whatever) is # 3. That's how airlines work.
@@brucevrooman6107
That is simply untrue. If you understood how the system works, you’d be embarrassed by the ignorance your reply exemplifies.
@@brucevrooman6107 I know, right? The left engine didn't start on the ground. If, for some reason, it stopped in mid-air they could always have someone go out on the wing and start it again, right? ;-)
@@speedlever And yet here you are, refusing to explain why your insulting comment is left unsupported by why you feel this way.
@@BillGreenAZ
Bill, you (and others) seem to infer incompetence by the crew. Since you (and others) are obviously not knowledgeable about commercial aviation, why make blanket statements in a subject area you are ignorant about? Ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge and/or experience.
Commercial aviation has a system to deal with maintenance discrepancies. The crew complied with the system as they properly should have, then dealt with the follow on issues in a professional manner as they arose. And yet you and others who have no knowledge of the way the system works chose to denigrate the crew and the airline.
If the crew varies from the procedures set in place to deal with discrepancies, they will likely get a call from management and have to explain their actions/decisions.
The idea of restarting the engine should it fail in flight is not a reasonable projection. But assuming such an event occurred, there is most likely an air start procedure defined for this engine that doesn’t require the ground based starting system. Typically, it involves reaching a certain indicated airspeed to have the turbines rotating at sufficient speed to introduce fuel and ignition.
That’s kinda like if you go to start your car but the battery is dead and you can’t jump start it. If you have an automatic transmission, you’re probably out of luck. But if you have a manual transmission and a convenient hill, you can bump start the engine from 2nd gear.
Bottom line, the crew dealt with all aspects of this flight in a competent and professional manner in my opinion and do not deserve all the armchair quarterback criticisms. Hope that helps explain.
The plane had six no-start events in the 12 day period before the 'accident'. 10:00.
Huge red flag and it should have been grounded. But AA would be flustered with the loss of revenue.
@@muffs55mercury61
That would be easy to jump to that conclusion. But the reality is the captain would review any logged/observed maintenance discrepancies and make sure everything is compliant with the regs and the MEL before he signs off and accepts the aircraft. This pattern of failures appears to originate with the manufacturer and also involves the airline’s maintenance program. The flight crew did exactly what they were trained and expected to do.
@@speedlever Who in their right mind would instruct a flight crew to take off in a plane that had this record of no-start events? This is why this event happened. It's just irresponsible.
@@BillGreenAZ, THAT is the ethic of American Airlines, the Wal-Mart of the airline industry!
@@BillGreenAZ Well Said.
Bit like kicking the tyres to see if there is enough air in them Thankfully the pilots were on top of their game and everyone survived.
I really would have benefitted from a graphic of the ATSV filter in this one.
Howdy! I'm Jethro and this here's my brother Billy Bob. We done come here to fix up your airplane.
It's scary enough having to fly AA occasionally as a passenger, I can't imagine how actually having to work in them on a regular basis is.
I have worked and been on this aircraft DFW, many many times. N454AA was a great bird.
I have seen so many instances where the captain ignores an underlying fault, because "it fixed itself".
Faults never fix themselves. This is common sense but why don't pilots have this? Maybe it's pressure from the airline and get-there-itus.
The flight crew should never have taken off with the knowledge they had.
I always thought the "MD" acronym standed for "Might Die". I swear MD's were allergic to hydraulic fluid...couldnt drop it quick enough 😂
The mighty Mad Dog.
@@DrSeuss-nv9hw AKA “DDT”- Douglas Death Tube.
I was calling them the "Mad Dog" from the first time they flew in the late 70s early 80s. I used word-recognition tricks to remember acronyms, but it's funny how everyone else was calling them the "Mad Dog" at the same time. I called it that because I always sat in the back in the bulkhead seats, where the engines could get mighty noisy. The last time I flew to Florida I was in an MD-88 and sitting right next to an engine, but it was very quiet. The cowling was inches from my face. My favorite window seat on the plane.
Well, DC-10's were nicknamed 'Death Cruiser' so you're not wrong...
This happened in my hometown. Glad everybody survived.
Amen.
Mine, too!
Mine as well. I suspect there are a bunch of aviation enthusiasts in STL.
@@brianalberico9171 I worked for TWA/American from 98-01.
this video is not about you.
Loss of hydraulic power was caused by? I suppose electrical power loss must be related to the fire on number 1. Plus the APU wouldn’t start? Doesn’t exactly instill confidence in AA maintenance.
Large companies don't reward workers for thinking outside, or inside, the box.
Hi Slide. "Large companies..." Small companies are exempt? Or did someone just not do their job correctly.? I've worked for large companies. I was demanded, and rewarded, to think inside, outside the box, and every which other way. Your comment seems to be myopic.
@@roderickcampbell2105 perhaps, good and bad would be a better description than large small whatever
@@roderickcampbell2105 how can you take offense to such a nebulous comment? What's wrong with you?!
@@patrickwatrin5093 Hi Patrick. I agree with you. Good, bad, indifferent companies, etc would be an improvement on "large". Respect to you.
@@kimmuckenfuss2284 Hello Kim. Sorry if I offended you. I did not mean to do so. But you ask two questions, and I will answer them. I can take offense if a statement or comment bothers me. And you actually answer your own question with the single word "nebulous". Yes, it was nebulous, and that can be called out. Nothing wrong with that. I am sometimes nebulous and take criticism for it. Now, what's wrong with me? I have an approach that precludes discussing my weaknesses in public. Well, aside from being, now and then, nebulous. I could ask what's wrong with you, but I won't. Oops. I guess I just did.
Always nice when they return safely 😊
2:04 Probably needs a new starter. Call AAA?
The pilots got the plane to the ground with no injuries or casualties. A medal for all of them. And someone needed to be fired in the maintenance department. Nice production, Allec-
Was hoping last line would be “Moron mechanics who failed to inspect the valve were fired.” Good video.
As a member of the "moron mechanics," I'll give you a little insight into the process. We must, at all times, follow the maintenance manual. In this time critical situation we will be referenced to a flow chart or "fault tree" , which will step out the diagnostic process that must be followed, WE WILL GET SEVERELY REPRIMANDED IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG AND WE WERE NOT FOLLOWING THE MANUAL!!".
if the process says test items A B and C and they check out, then repace item D. Then that is what is done. If the aircraft now starts, as was mentioned here, then we must conclude the problem is fixed. The moron mechanics you speak of may well have been seperate groups of guys in different cities that had never met each other. There is a group of overseer's called "maintenance watch" that track trends that should have, and may well have, been onto this problem. But to blame the mechs is outright wrong.
I stand corrected. The folks who drafted the maintenance manual had a hand in this too.
Thank you.
@@watsisbuttndo829 people that have never touched a tool let alone work on aircraft will never know. As A&P's, we can't just take apart whatever we want when we want. They have never worked on tired old parts that may be stuck/sticking, etc. Im not sticking up for people doing a shit job but defending the rest of us from the clueless public.
@williammooney8499 whos "they"?.
In a fleet, the size of Americans, can pretty much guarantee you it was a different bunch of guys each time. Possibly on opposite sides of the country. Possibly never worked on that particular jet before. Yet the same issue kept happening?. What piece of this puzzle stayed the same??. MAINT MANUAL!!.
Great sleuthing work. Thank you for another good story.
Thank you.
I have heard of and seen too many cases of AA poor maintenance...it is hard to fly an airline like this!!!!!!
Worst safety record of all US carriers.
Lots of MD-80 series aircraft at Roswell. Early B-777's are there also, getting chopped up.
Keep up the great work thank you 🙏🏼
well, looks like i'm gonna die. seeing pieces leave the right engine. you could hear it power down. perfectly normal landing, arrival. this is why the crew are paid what they are. good vid.
Always easier to let the part fail, then you know exactly what to fix😂
Rest in pieces super 80
I have a friend who used to work at the United Airlines Maintenance Center in San Francisco. He said a lot of the aircraft maintenance workers were just plain ol' losers.
Thanks...that's encouraging...
@@sharonrose7938 Well it is San Fran....the entire city is filled with losers.
Yep just look at what happened in 1979 at OHare
Allec . I don’t know how others feel, but in my opinion it is unnecessary to run that annoying fire alarm bell for so long in the video. Thank you for your hard work. Love your videos.
A great video as always Allec, but there was a lot of technical detail there, which, without an in-depth knowledge of the ATSV and attendant components, washed over me. It would have been great if that narrative overlaid the relevant technical drawings. Please keep up the good work though!
great? how?
At 10:00 the “ATSV had been replaced six times during the 12 days period…”.🤔 “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” A. Einstein. No really, how can a maintenance crew replace 6 times the same part and not suspect they were barking at the wrong tree?🤌🏻🤯🙄🤦♂️
Glad they were able to make it back to the airport with no injuries or loss of life.
A number of people really dropped the ball on this one. I would think a nineteen year old aircraft would get maintenance checks more often. It seems like the maintenance crew were just putting a band aid on the problem. This could have been a much more serious accident.
This is what we, in the industry call "Pencil Whipping" a job.... Not good....
So an engine fire caused the cockpit door to be having a problem staying closed and the right separate independent hydraulic system failed, and the nose gear wouldn't lock down and the 2nd fire bottle wouldn't fire-and the Captain lost all his instruments? I think junior in the right seat was part of the problem, none of these things had anything to do with an engine fire, except possible loss of engine indications from harness damage at the engine. None of which was explained in the video.
Should this plane have flown? Were the pilots given a POS to do the best that they could? The aircraft had multiple major systems that were not functioning correctly.
Well done, those pilots.
The plane was trying to tell them not to go by not starting :)
...being escorted by security out of the "Constellation" bar at JFK after standing on a table singing "up. up, and away"...
Great video, as always! Did I miss how the left engine fire affected the right hydraulic system?
great?
@@Capecodham GFY.
@@jakerson181 GFY is that an airport?
My mother,grandpa, grandmother was supposed to be on this flight but we changed it narrowly
There is ample history to fix this no start condition. The JT8D-217 at 19 years has pretty much done it all. Poor judgement on a lot of peoples part.
Did the NTSB actually recommend that American Airlines get its Analysis and Surveillance System in order, or did they tell them to "shape their ASS up"?
🥀🇺🇸🥀
Excellent videos you make
looking forward to watching this
🇺🇸🥀🇺🇸
I love you allec you are a amazing aviation person that I've watched for 3 years now crazy how I'm still watching you anyway can you please do chalks ocean airways flight 101❤❤❤❤🎉🎉😊
This doesn't explain why the A/C lost all electrical power and right hyd power.
Exactly. They suffered 3 separate emergencies. It looked like, from the video, they hand to land before running any checklists for right system hydraulic failure. Braking, reverse thrust, landing gear, nosewheel steering, aft airstair, flaps and rudder would all be, at least partially, affected. I don't think they evacuated but probably needed a tow off the runway. Just curious.
A couple questions come to mind. Why were they using Boeing maintenance procedures on a MD aircraft, and why wouldn't the APU start?
Boeing and McDonald Douglas merged. APU didnt start because it was on the same electrical bus that was effected.
Although this was NOT the event, comedian Richard Jeni tells a hilarious story about being forced to sit in the back row of an American Airlines plane and a fire emergency that caused a flight attendant to just go bananas. Look up Richard Jeni Airline Revelation.
THIS was years ago on one of the few flights I ever took.......I guess they knew one engine had a starting problem cause they
called who ever guessing maintenance and the guy litany had a Brass Hammer opened the cowling and hit something 2 or 3 times closed the cowling
and it started and off we went.........sort of was startling to say the least, one time I wish did not have a window seat
Fly Spirit and you will be able to watch them duct taping the wings. Saving dollars on a ticket just is not worth it.
Great vid and explanation of a little heard of incident!
Allec, can you cover Delta flight 1288 that had an incident in Pensacola, FL in 1996 IIRC.
Thanks!
WTF is a vid?
@burt2481 Since this is the 7th time you've asked this question and it has been explained to you six times, you must have Alzheiner's. Please see a doctor.
@@CapecodhamThink about it and it will come to you.
@@deepthinker999 coVID?
@@Capecodham video
Sounds like too many A & P mechanics are non-intuitive "parts changers", rather than possessing an integrated + comprehensive knowledge of these Jet Turbine systems.
This is why they kept changing the valve vs rectifying the Air Filter deficiency.
Guys, if you train your son's - (and daughters too) to be observant & curious about all their mechanical stuff - bikes when young, cars / trucks later on, they'll grow up being PROBLEM SOLVERS, not mere parts changers.
PTL no lives lost over this one !
Sorry Allec , I pressed the wrong Button on the screen , I have since given the Video a " Thumbs up " , I have always liked your Video's , Be Well my Friend . 😊👍
If you click a don't like or a like, if you click it again it reverses what you did, so if you accidentally click one of them you can undo it. It won't count it as two down votes, for example.
What is the music called? Great analysis, as usual.
The music is referenced to in the video description box (click to expand).
What happened with the hydraulics I wonder?
wondering the same???
The mechanics didn't want to bring a ladder, just a stick in the button ... laziness does not pay.
At least it ended reasonably well, an inexpensive lesson by aviation standards.
Probably they weren't too fond of putting their hand on that starter as it's very hot and if the valve stuck, which does happen, it will explode destroying your hand.
@@rogerhuber3133 You know.
How many MD's have you worked on?
@@mytmousemalibu All that were CAL. How about you?
Ericksons MD fire bombers
Do you know if they paid compensation to the relatives of Alaska Airlines Flight 261 in 2000 that fell into the sea due to lack of maintenance?
Yes, they paid out over $300 million, about $140.00 per victim.
@@MisterRON thanks for the time
@@juanmanuelmartínezchávez431 De nada 👍🏾
@@MisterRON I don't understand the math.
Note to self...check engine oil every week....
I had to turn the audio off as the music was very annoying. It's usually not that noticeable.
great video bro can you please do Lufthansa Flight 181 please it is a very good video please carry on with what you are doing these are some great videos thanks
Love it
Do they normally wait so long to pull the fire extinguisher?
When we hear stories about airlines ignoring maintenance in the US, it reminds us that we are truly a third world culture based on corporate greed and bad practices. "Passenger safety is our first concern."
Then it's a third-world culture with coicidentally a much better than third-world accident rate. Outliers are the stuff UA-cam videos are made of, so forming opinions around them might not result in especially reliable opinions.
Air India is the global leader in this respect.
You should do one for TWA Flight 514 that crashed at Mount Weather.
Pratt JT8D-200 series, old technology
Whoop whoop whoop whoop “Auto-pilot”. I like to hear bitchin betty
What happened to the narration?
I love hearing you narrate. 😐
Alec - see, what did I tell you? People who like narration were a hidden group that was larger than you expected
@@herseem Could both options be made available?
@@deepthinker999 I would think so, but it wasn't me that made the video
What happened 2 the narrated video's?
This was all weird. A mechanic had to manually start the engine?
Was a technician lifting the hood ahead of the cockpit and checking the dipstick? Was another outside using window cleaner on the glass? Sounded like a deleted scene from Airplane.
This whole thing was not encouraging at all. Massive oversight by all concerned. Glad very few are in service.
Well done the crew for getting her down while it was in such bad shape. I was not expecting a happy ending.
Some of procedures they did or did not follow, or interrupted unnecessarily, perturbed me though.
The technical "explanation" meant nothing to no one again except maybe an engineer for that engine. Massive cock up all around and just shows a part almost no one knew existed will kill you, and worse, the manufacturer, the airlines and the maintenance engineers had no idea it might go wrong so there was nothing to check.
Okay someone massively missed a clearly visisble problem, but if it was not on their what - to - do - if list then who is at fault? Was it ever reported but then ignored.
Planes, don't you love them until a part in one kills you.
A possible comment about AA maintenance. You don't always get to do what you want to do. They have to play by rules too.
Why is no explanation given for the lack of right hydraulic pressure and lack of power to the left flight instruments? The engine start valve is less mysterious than these other malfunctions. The APU would not start either. This airplane had a bad day in more ways than one. And with a fire light illuminated the captain interrupted execution of the engine fire checklist to brief the flight attendants? What is the explanation for that?
Bottom line, that plane should have been taken out of service. Too many ignored and unresolved problems. The flying public deserves better.
The first time the engine didn’t start, they should have been required to evacuate the plane and not allow it to fly
Disembark would be better. No need to pop the emergency slides.
Okay with all this he said she said..blah blah...is anyone ever held accountable for a poorly maintained jet liner? And BTW why does Capt have to brief the flight attendants?? That was the most bizzare statement ever.
What kind of weather they will encounter. Maybe to reassure them what kind of maintenance is needed. What parts work and what do not (like the lavatory). Any VIPs that may be on the flight (like the Transportation Secretary & Sky Marshalls) .
Non wing mounted engine... 1 day ago 😆
Why in the hell would you continue the flight if the engine would not start as expected? I wouldn't take off in my car under these circumstances!!! The flying public deserves better and safer operations than this. At least I do!
That's just another way of saying you don't need to go anywhere.
Because the failure of the ATSV was covered by the MEL. So they were legal to go.
I wish there was a follow up on why they also lost right hydraulics and why they had partial panel too. That’s a lot of failures that can’t be attributed to a single engine failure.
If that engine couldn’t start on its own, and they had to get others to manually start. As the captain, I would not want that plane to leave the ground.
The mechanic should have gone to jail for falsifying records.
*It appears that the fire was the result of someone IN THE COCKPIT prying on the manual start override button!*
Who did that? Why in the world would you risk doing that?
No, I think it's in the engine. It'd be an insanely long air pipe going from the cockpit to the engine.
@@thhseeking I agree but on that plane some switches like that may have been totally manually activated remember this jet was designed in late 1950s!
It's been a while since I flew the Mad Dog. But I don't recall a manual start override button in the flight deck. This would be done from the engine. All the pilots did was hold the start switch down.
@@DrSeuss-nv9hw Correct. There were three ways to open the start valve... 1. Cockpit switch that controlled a solenoid on the valve.... 2. Override button on the valve that moved the solenoid manually... 3. Hex drive on the valve to be used with a special wrench to open the valve manually.
The override button was deactivated on all valves after this incident.
Game name?
IF I wanted to read I would have brought a book¡!!!!!!!!.
No translation subtitles for any language.
"sounds", not "sounds off [sic]"
Could really use less technical language on this site.
This situation is total BS. 🤨 What's next?? Cranking the motor over with a handle?? Who ever heard of manually starting an engine. And none of them even seemed concerned about it. 🤦♀ That plane never should have left the airport. 🤬 I've been waiting for a #1 reason not to fly. Well, here it is.
You are not wrong.
Lazy mechanics.
Ask the passengers if they think the plane should take off with one of two engines faulty. This is wrong no matter what excuse there was for starting the engine with force. The level of stupidity is sky high, This reach Russian levels of safety.
Can you please use a better Flight Simulator
How was Boeing involved? This was a McDonnel Douglass aircraft. Perhaps Boeing bought MD?
Boeing did buy MD.
Boeing bought McDonnell-Douglas. Although the MD series was renamed (ex. Boeing-MD82), the MD95 had it's "MD" completely removed. Now known as the Boeing 717, it is operated by Delta, Hawaiian and Qantaslink.
@@DrSeuss-nv9hw You know your stuff ! Glad that you are on board.
@@DrSeuss-nv9hw Good info. Thanks!
@@deepthinker999 Thanks for the info!
Fault Left Unchecked | American Airlines Flight 1400
Fault Left Unchecked | American Airlines Flight 1400
@@anandguruji83 Answer me, dagnammit! Are you real or a bot?
boring
Yes, you are. However, you are clearly an extremely miserable, unhappy person which makes all of us very happy.
Would be nice if you added how many cycles and Hours at the time of the accident
Incompetent, lazy ground crew.