6:14 "People cannot wrap their brain around how many batteries that is" I have an EV, and I took it camping with some of my family a while back, and I just let everyone charge their personal devices off my USB ports. Over and over again they kept asking "Are you sure? I don't want you to get stuck before reaching a charger." "Mom, it's fine, you could literally charge your phone from my car five _thousand_ times and I could still get to a charger."
I would not be too sure of Stellantis’ success. They have overpriced most models and are now offering deep discounts to clear their lots. Sure they are big, but the jury is out on their success in the US.
One of the primary reasons to move to an EV is to get rid of the ludicrously less-efficient, maintenance and failure-prone jumble of intricate parts of a combustion engine. I cannot take any vehicle seriously that insists on shoving an ICE back into an EV.
Real benefit is for towing. Thing is, there just aren't a lot of people who tow stuff regularly. At least for now, those people will just stick with an ICE vehicle. In five years the cost of large batteries will come down enough that the price increment for 500 miles (or 300 miles while towing something) will be so low that it will just become standard. But we're not there yet.
When I road trip I have the following hopes I want to show up with atleast 20 miles range (30 miles would be better) I want to leave with 75% charge . . Let's push to 80%, even if I find that inefficient. Travelling highway speed (80 mph) I usually get about 80% of the EPA range. The battery pack will degrade about 10-15% over the 3 years I have owned my Tesla. With all of those parameters, What range do I need to drive 3.5 hours at 80 mph 3 years into ownership? 520 miles of range. This is getting worse with kids, kids don't wait for a bathroom break til their is a Supercharger near by. So please, keep working on Battery tech and find a way to get me a 7 seat SUV with 450+ miles range! That is what I want, but I can wait until then. I just wish my Tesla didn't depreciate in value so much or I would get a longer range variant.
Buttons are more engaging. Personally, I am indifferent, but in a car or SUV (blech!) screens are fine. I could argue that they are overdone. Plus, they take your eyes off the road longer than something tactile. Humans are afterall still tactile creatures in addition to the visual. Furthermore, when hopping into a truck, knobs and buttons are easier to use with gloved hands (if you are actually using your truck as a, well, truck.)
I agree with a lot of your points, but the Silverado didn't scale until Q3 of 2024. Early models were out to press much earlier, but wide availability didn't happen until late Q2 and early Q3. Even then, the offerings were the basic work truck with no options and the $95k top end model. The mid range LT which will compete with the F150 started sales in late November.
How about bringing back the small pickup trucks and making them all electric? I miss those small trucks….remember the little Isuzu pickups from the 1990’s ? They were excellent little pickup trucks for around $10,000. We don’t need a box on wheels, add some aerodynamics, a few curves. A small pickup truck would take a smaller battery pack and should be less expensive to manufacture. The problem is that pickup trucks and SUV’s in this country are getting way too big, we don’t need big tanks driving down the road just to go to the store or just to run around in.
I doubt that cause the chinese do not allow this. If you do not pay your suppliers in China then you can face prison - I doubt this will happen in the USA this way. BYD as arrived in europe quite strong but with high prices at the VW level - before the tarifs kicked in which are a shame cause the chinese did not undercut,quite the opposite, they were expensive or 3 times of what they cost in china itself which is a lot. And that was before they had put tarifs on the chinese cars.
1200 yes I have talked to so many people that are interested in the Ramcharger, it enables trips in places like Alaska where DC chargers are far between, I think this may be one of their best selling products.
The problem is RamCharger. It just makes so much more sense, than a 500mi inefficient EV truck you'll have to wait forever to charge (@ common 150KW), assuming you can unhitch and fit it into a stall. Otherwise, daily, it's all electric. Dude, check the reservation list. Stellantis is just going where the market is!
Automakers are realizing that if you need more than 100 or 130 kWh in an EV, then you're better off with a range extender. It's a formula based on cost and weight.
As you said - battery energy density and price is paramount. IMHO, Telo needs to keep focus on getting their first truck into profitable production ASAP. Then in a few years, when batteries are more dense and less costly, incorporate the latest cell tech into the same physical space for a 500 mile range. But a significant redesign to add battery capacity now is detrimental to the mission.
I think you got it right. We don't see electric pickups with 500 mile freeway range (assuming cruising at 70mph) because the manufacturers don't believe there are that many people who are willing, or able, to spend that kind of money on an all electric pickup. The one complaint I hear from consumers is that cars and trucks are too expensive. People's incomes have not been keeping up with inflation, and the price of cars and trucks have risen more than most things. Consumers have to be cost conscious, and ultra long range EVs don't make a lot of sense. According to Car and Driver, a 2024 Model 3 Performance has a 260mi highway range at 75mph, so if you charge from 10% to 80% you are getting about 182mi or 2.4 hours between charging. That could be reasonable if you make a couple of long road trips every month. If you only take a couple of long road trips a year, it would make a lot of sense to skip the long range battery pack, particularly as fast charging becomes more reliable. If the next generation Model S had 500 mile range, the distances between charging stops (10% to 80%) could be 303mi or 4 hours. How many people would really want to go that long between charging stops? How much would they be willing to spend to be able to do that if they only took a few road trips a year? I'd argue that few people would be willing to spend for a 500 mile range in any EV, to say nothing of a full sized pickup which would make the proposition much more expensive. The manufacturers are just being sensible.
Here in Western Australia our rural fast charging network is crap. We need 500 mile / 800 km range so we can tow a caravan and skip broken chargers if necessary.
98% of ice trucks range between 300-400 miles per tank. Less than 2% can go to 450-500. You know why so little? Cause you would need a 45 gallon drum for gas or diesel. So why put a 200kW battery when more than 90% need more than 200 miles of range less than 10% of the time and pull trailers in average twice per year?
I have the same chair you were sitting on in this video. I have a 300 mile Cybertruck Cyberbeast, and I have been able to drive 900 miles in a day with it. I have been testing the Cybertruck in sub -20f weather, and it has done well. If there were no Cybertruck I would be interested in the Ram Charger.
@@TailosiveEV Later on, you said, "They weren't making money on them, so why would they keep manufacturing them?" (10:48) That implies that GM gave up the idea of making the Bolts altogether, which is not true.
I have '22 Bolt bought used, so I'm really in what the new Bolt is like. Add 40 miles range and triple the DC charging speed and nothing else really needs changing. Tesla make good profits in part because they have barely changed the design across 4 models in a decade.
@@ziploc2000 I love my Bolt and am curious about the new Bolt, too - but I would also be interested in the Telo e-truck... if they ever start offering it for a reasonable price.
@Pankratnazar-m1n We're going to have to replace other vehicle, a Honda Odyssey, eventually, but we won't need two Bolts. Whatever we eventually get will be a bit bigger for longer family trips, but hopefully fully electric too. Right now the Bolt is the car of choice, always the first one off the driveway, and the poor Odyssey is used maybe once a week.
The most important limiting factor for large battery packs is on the supply side: how fast you can get that energy back. There are three practical reasons to have 500 mile range: 1. Long-distance road trips, especially while towing. 2. Very long range daily work, where you start and end your trip at the car's Level 2 charger. 3. Cold-weather operations. Let's use the Cybertruck as an example. It has a 120kWh battery pack. If the efficiency stayed the same, it would take a 180kWh pack to get 500 mile range. Let's look at the scenarios above: 1. Currently, driving from Duchesne, UT to Seattle, WA takes 18.5 hours in a Cybertruck, 5 of which are charging. You don't really cut this time with a 500 mile range unless it comes with both a better low-end charging curve AND true V4 superchargers along the entire route. So the problem is, mostly, lack of charging infrastructure, not range. 2. This is where you really get a benefit, in theory. But that's only if you can start with 100%. A Tesla Wall Connector charges at 11.5kW in its most powerful configuration. So it would take about 14 hours to charge a 500 mile Cybertruck from 10% to 100%. So if you really need to use, say, 400 miles/day, you're not going to be able to do that every day using just a Level 2 charger overnight. You'll need to have access to a Supercharger at some point during your day, so you probably don't need the 500 mile range if that's available. And if you're in a DC fast charging dead zone, you're only going to be able to use that 500 mile range occasionally if you use your Cybertruck all day for work. 3. Cold weather just makes scenarios 1 and 2 worse, as far as charging speed, which is the limiting factor. Sure, you get more real-world range in cold weather with a 500 mile EPA range. But that cold weather is really going to hit both DC fast charging and L2 charging speed unless you have a heated garage to charge in, making it hard to utilize that increased range more than occasionally. This is why 500 mile range trucks are impractical. Not due to battery availability or profitability, but because you don't get a consistent, everyday benefit from that large battery due to inadequate charging infrastructure. Better DC fast-charging curves only help for long road trips, and only if every charger on the trip is a top-end fast charger running at max capacity. The problem is on the supply side.
The problem isn't vehicle range. Rather, it is the lack of fast charging in more locations, especially in more rural areas not close to Interstate Highway corridors. For ICE vehicles there is always a gas/diesel station just about everywhere even if it's a small convenience store in the middle of nowhere. Until fast EV charging is similarly available, longer range vehicles will be desirable to a rather small subset of EV owners.
Excellent summary. But you should have discussed the 2 truck markets - those who tow and those who don't. What is lacking is a truck with aerodynamics optimized for pulling typical pickup trailers. Think a small version of the Tesla semi with range of 250-300mi while towing a typical load at typical speeds. While the A is relatively fixed, there a lot that can be done to optimize the Cd of the truck-trailer combo.
6:39 I've noticed the same thing with the Sliverado EV LT trim... it's cheaper than the Cybertruck, and it gets more range... it's more appealing to me. But you are right, I wish they could scale it more
I would definitely be interested in the Ramcharger ONLY IF those are under $80k and qualify for the full Federal EV Tax credit (assuming those are still around).
Thr BYD shark has all the mounting brackets for a bigger battery that extends to where the fuel tank and muffler is. I think BYD is planning on making a full EV version in the future. But with regards to range, my old petrol 4WD only had 520km (320mi) of range until it stopped (my daughter tested it).
Bingo, 250-300 mile range was average in the 90s. It’s the charging time and lack of infrastructure. When you have kids or own a business, things come up all the time. We need better batteries and infrastructure
I still think the hybrid option with 200 miles of ev range is great. Its a generator, if you need to haul evs are great, but not far, like what Edison motors is doing. Honestly anything truck size should be a hybrid since its a tool and most of these trucks offer generator, bidirectional home backup. which should be the focus on a truck is utility
The RamCarger is 100% the way to go. 150-200 miles or range on battery alone. All the benefits of electric performance and maintenance. But for when you need to take the occasional trip that is greater than a 200 mile round trip, you have a gas back up. The average person isn't doing more than 50 miles round trip each day. So you might fill that gas tank once a month if that. Brings your fuel cost way down for a truck that size, and you have the range when you occasionally need it. Plus not having to worry about a charging infrastructure that is very slowly expanding, and is unreliable for 3rd party non-tesla chargers.
I had a Cybertruck order for four years, but ended up getting the Sierra EV because it had much more range. We have lots of 300 to 350 mile range EVs. Give us some 500+ mile range options already. Some people want / need that. Especially on a pickup. We don’t all live in a city with lots of charging locations and a temperate climate. I think for the Telo truck, the current range options are fine. I see that being more of a run around / random task pickup, not a haul or tow heavy loads long distances kind of pickup.
It seems to me the perfect balance would be 100-150 miles of electric range in a full size truck which would equate to like 60-70 kWh and then switching to an ideally diesel powered generator for long haul/heavy hauling. Theyre prioritizing range vs efficiency. If I could do my day to day stuff on electric but still have the ability to burn some dinosaurs to go for a long haul and still have the responsiveness and torque of electric that would be amazing. But that would make too much sense
Another issue is that even if a pickup was able to travel 500 miles under ideal conditions, range when fully loaded and/or when towing would be much lower.
I think that towing would be the real reason to buy an ultra long range pickup. If the next generation Lightning were able to run 500 miles at 70mph unladen, it might be able to go over 250mi when towing a car trailer at 60mph, which means if you normally charge from 10% to 80% you can go for 175mi between charging stations. If we suddenly got pull through charging stations, then long distance towing might actually be somewhat tolerable.
Well I just totaled my car back in December I bought a ICE vehicle specifically the Ford Ranger 2024 the reason is because I don’t want a F150 size vehicle that can’t even fit in my garage. The other is because I live in a cold climate and when temperatures drop so does the range on these EVs dramatically. Also battery health seems to deteriorate quite quickly meanwhile a ice vehicle will have the same range on day 1 or day 1000
Ford has proven how difficult it is to sell the electric pick up truck in America. There’s no need for them to jump into this race prematurely on top of the bankruptcy issues.
I think solid state batteries will be a game changer for 500 mile EVs because, when they come out, the price of current batteries will plummet; thus taking care of the existing cost barrier you speak of. Then, as solid state batteries become more widespread, that will translate into cheaper solid state batteries being available and so on...
I know many people that will be very interested in the Ramcharger, and are actually waiting for it. Most just need the range for towing, or peace of mind. It is a very interesting concept, most of the benefits of electric drive train, with built in generator backup. More maintenance cost yes, but worth it for added range, towing, etc. It will be a good bridge vehicle for people not willing to go full EV yet.
p=i*e. the voltage doesn't change the power required from the charger. a 65 KWH battery requires 65 KW for one hour of charging. a 350 KW (the max you will find) fast charger will charge it in 19 minutes. to double the range, you would need a 130KWH battery, and that would take 38 minutes to full charge. Your normal home has about 20KW available, so the 130KWH battery would take 6.5 hours to charge. Fast chargers really load the grid, and 350 KW (enough power to supply 15 average homes) may not be available in remote areas. and this is multiplied by the # of chargers at the charging station. a charging station with 5 fast chargers would require 1.7 MW!
I really want a small pickup that’s full EV and could care less about the range. Make a Telo with a 200 mile range that costs $6k less and that’s the one I’ll go for. I love my egolf, but it’s not my road trip vehicle. That’s what the Y is for. My Telo does not need to do everything either
It’s because efficiency is tied to weight. More batteries makes more weight therefore less efficient so you need to add more batteries but that adds more weight so you add more batteries and you lose more efficiency. Batteries need to be half the weight to get to 500 miles of range and maintain 3.5 to 4 miles per kilowatt hour
The range tipping point for me to fully be eager to buy a BEV is a battery capable of going 400 miles per charge. 14:00 Charging at home with a 9.6 or 11.5 kw charger means I can maximize battery life and go 15 years or beyond if I limit daily use to 60%, or 240 miles going from 20% to 80% SOC. Once the battery lasts 15 years or more the long term economics make sense at current vehicle purchase prices especially when considering lower maintenance costs for an EV vs. an ICE equivalent. The Silverado EV LT with the midgate is perfect for me because I don’t want to repair the RST’s 4WS and air suspension problems that won’t exist either just the LT. Now only if I could order one in the color I want . . .
Yes, a long-range TELO truck should be something they offer! It's what I will buy. It would add to the practicality factor for towing as well as charging at home. I have solar on my roof and batteries in my garage. With 500 mile range, I could drive round trip from my home in Portland to a Mariners game in Seattle (we do that at least twice/year) and not have to charge on the road.
Let’s get this straight pure ev trucks are money losers. They don’t have enough range and are as green as a diesel. The amount of mining needed to produce one of these trucks completely wipes out emissions savings.
Tesla also canceled 500 miles of range. I think you missed two things here. Manufacturers may have expected to discover some battery making miracle that cut battery costs in half by now. If they could do that, extra range is easy. I don't think they expected battery material advances because those come with manufacturing challenges, see 4680 development. Also, market research beyond social media may show that 300-350 miles of advertised range is just fine with actual buyers. People may say they want 500 here but if 300 sells, they do 300. Note that Dodge says that 300+ is fine as well. If next year the Silverado sales take off and 492 miles of range is fashionable, the other guys might all be wrong, we'll see.
Running the generator at peak efficiency rather than the constantly changing loads for driving loads, you gain considerable efficiency. Far more then I originally anticipated. I have a hybrid car (non plugin), and my gas bill is roughly on par with the charging bill if I had taken a tesla instead. Charging at home is cheaper but the supercharger prices are more. I drive both short and very long trips pretty evenly. Even though it's older now and not as efficient as new, I recently hit 4.0 L/100km (59mpg) over 1500km. (almost 1000miles) I love the idea of the hybrid truck. I'm waiting on a cargo van version.
Maybe I’m completely wrong, but I think that electric pickup trucks will never be ideal for personal towing. We need like a Tesla semi mini. Space for batteries, toolkit, maybe 3 occupants and that’s it. And make the 3rd axle unpowered and detachable so that you could rapidly undock the trailer, go charge at any charger, and come back.
500 mile range EV trucks get there by having 200 kWh batteries. That makes them gigantic 9000 pound monstrosities and cost over $100,000. Stellantis has a huge problem. The AMERICAN CONSUMER demands their RAM have a v8 engine. While it's passe for the smaller trucks to have a v6, they expect that big RAM to have a v8 even if it's a 5.7-L. If I had to buy a RAM truck for work, I'd want the cheapest V8 possible even if I needed to buy a used model they no longer make. If I had to buy a RAM truck right now as a flex, it would be the TRX. The RHO is a bad joke to me.
I can say I am disappointed in Ram. The 500 Mile range is critical because not of the everyday drive but the fact that if you haul you can haul 250 miles which is 3 hours before you need to charge. I personally do not want a gas engine that I use a handful of times a year. But as I am just an average worker. I can not afford a house payment for a truck. So until they come down to a reasonable price it does not matter to most. Also I wish that there would be a good company that comes out with a reasonably priced subscription where you can have a car/suv when you want or a truck for hauling. I never mod my vehicles anyway.
Only two reasons to buy a full size pickup truck: 1. Towing. 2. Value signalling. EVs don't work well for either. Manufacturers need to focus on efficient people movers. EV minivan makes more sense.
Yes, you should definitely nag telo to make a 500 plus mile ev truck. Signed, someone planning on getting a max range Silverado EV asap (who would be getting a telo if they were available and at or exceeding silverado ev range... who is also in line for an Aptera)
Another reason for the large size of trucks is it's harder for the weight of a trailer to push the truck around. A truck needs to do more than just hold the weight up.
the commute part must be big and justify the EV part of a hybrid and the towing or long distance part must justify the ice part BMW had a smart move in their 2013 models as small efficient range extender. A V6 makes no sense in a hybrid with a 50 mls electric range. But it is the entry for someone who is not convinced about pure electric and does have such opposite driving profile like many shorter commute trips and rather few long distance trips with a few towing occasions. At the end the amount of buyers with such profile is quite limited too. Here less than 0,3% are trucks of these size no matter what drive train. You will get no parking lot or have to pay for 2.
Very simple, because pretty much no one needs 500 miles of range when most people can charge every night and dont drive more than 60 miles a day. That's pretty much the same as paying $1000 for smart phone to be on Tik Tok and Instagram all the time, and no one does that. Oh wait, ignore that smartphone part.😂😂😂😂😂
Federal tax credits should be available only on 300-mile (or better) EVs selling for under $35,000. Need to properly incentivize to boost demand for mass market production quantities. The engineers would deliver the needed solutions. Unfortunately, the federal government is now even more in bed with Big Oil.
@@TailosiveEV ; yeah, I don’t think the Silverado EV max range at 492 miles is for sale yet. However, Chevy has announced it so, in 2025, it looks like there will eventually be a 500 mile EV range truck for sale.
Tesla Power wall cost 8.3 times more than a Model 3 Performan Battery back of the same proportional size. In the car you pay $120 per kilowatt but in the Power wall you pay $996 per kilowatt. That's why I may want home solar but there is no way I'm doing it at those prices
@@TailosiveEV Look a these prices and battery sizes tho! 1. Tesla Model S (Long Range) 100 kWh (usable ~95 kWh) - $74,990 2. Tesla Model X (Long Range) 100 kWh (usable ~95 kWh) - $79,990 3. Ford Mustang Mach-E (Extended Range) 91 kWh (usable ~88 kWh) - $56,995
Seven years ago I was super excited for electric cars. In the last couple of years, I kind of don’t care anymore. They said they’ll get cheaper. I listen to and watch ev podcasts and UA-cam videos every day. And the prices? Barely shifted and I’m sick of waiting. Our next car will be petrol
It is only a matter of time before batteries get cheap enough. The Tesla S came with a 65kWh battery as an option because batteries were expensive and there was limited availability. Now a M3 has a 60kWh battery. My first EV has a 43kWh battery and my next one had a 60kWh battery both for the same price. Now you can't buy anything with less than 50kWh. Give it 5yrs and we will get 100kWh batteries more often.
My experience with several Chevrolet dealers when trying to buy a Bolt EV was that they were totally focused on selling me an ICE pickup, their #1 profit maker. I can imagine if you go to buy an EV pickup, you will find maybe one to choose from, at $10k above MSRP, and several dozen ICE pickups, all "on sale." The price differential could be $40k or more and you will be made to look like an idiot for still wanting an EV.
Until batteries are 30% more power density, the erev style trucks make sense. If the cybertruck at its current weight could get 400 miles highway 70 to 75 mph highway, then it would be more popular despite its polarizing looks.
The headlong rush into electrifying big pickups is looking more and more like a "never mind the demand, think of the profit-per-unit" thing, with Lightning and Rivian having sales problems and the Cybertruck having all the earmarks of an "It" Car that falls out of fashion *hard* once everyone who wants one has one (there are signs this is happening already). Electric vans make much more sense and I could see Ford moving Lightning battery packs to the E-Transit since so many vans operate on fixed city-delivery or shuttle bus routes.
Dead on, there's just no money in it because there is a ceiling on customers will pay. GM especially can't possibly be charging what it costs to make those massive battery packs. Battery production doesn't scale costs, even if you bring it in house. It's just materials. Makes more sense to spread those materials over more cars with smaller batteries for maximum profit. Think of it this way: the Sierra/Silverado/Hummer battery pack is roughly twice the size of the Cybertruck's. So Tesla gets two sales out of the same material cost.
I personally think battery tech is limited by physics. Lithium is a relatively light element and more of it can be crammed into a tighter space. Its is inpossible to acheive similar or even better energy density using more dense elements such as sodium or aluminum. Its kust a pipe dream.
People who have never owned an EV are fixated on range. Once you have an EV you understand that 500 mile range is stupid. Just a waste of money, weight, efficiency. Pickup truck buyers are worse because of the whole macho thing.
500 Miles means a lot more heavy batteries that you will need once a year or for very specific work. How many of these buyers are there. Maybe, 10k per year.
My wife's RAV4 Prime has a 50 mile battery only range, but also has a gas engine to generate more electricity to recharge the battery while driving. 90% of her day to day driving is done on the battery only, recharging overnight at home on a 20 amp 120 VAC circuit. I was trying to hold out for the RAM hybrid but my 2012 Grand Cherokee reached that reliability point and Chrysler bought out the "lifetime extended warranty" for $5k towards a 2024 RAM 1500 Tradesman base model with lots of other incentives. A good choice fully meeting or needs until the RAM Charger is out and more affordable. I have wanted a full electric vehicle since the late '60s.
It's all about towing and charging times. In all but the toy truck market those are critical. Longer range means improvement in overall usefulness. I'd go through the roof if a sub--contractor showed up late because of charging. Time is money and reputation.
Look at hummer lease .. that’s why they sell that many …. 77% buy back 24 months … it’s so weird … normal market is 50-60% .. i salute them on the lost coming in soon at auction
I think they need the range, because of towing. Sure, everyday driving its not big deal. But, when your range is cut drastically the moment you start towing, normal truck people want that extra range.
It's all about COMPENSATION and the American ideal for wanting bigger, faster, stronger, tougher... vehicles. /s Personally I think that's a wrong decision. What I want is more affordable, more efficient, more eco-friendly models that prioritize making sure every budget can afford some version of an electric car or truck like China. Clearly it's possible and in theory profitable. I also wish we'd just allow city/kei BEV's directly from China as is because if it was TRULY a safety issue motorcycles wouldn't exist. Period. So clearly that's not it...
I do think one day all EVs will have >= 500 miles range. We’ve ran this test with gas cars, that’s the range people like. But not until batteries are cheaper. Lighter would help too.
I don’t think so. It’s relatively simple to get a gas vehicle to go 500 miles. Bigger gas tank isn’t that hard. Batteries will always have more weight to them. There will likely always be a huge cost advantage to lower range EVs because they don’t have to haul as many batteries everywhere, and with EVs we can charge from home (unlike gas cars) so I believe with enough charging infrastructure we can normalize 250 mile range EVs. People don’t road trip that long without stopping to eat or pee anyway
If batteries don’t become significantly cheaper and at least somewhat lighter I agree. I just think in 20-30 years from now they will be way cheaper and lighter.
So as far as the ram charger potential goes, I see towing as being its saving grace. Fact is ev towing experience is rather poor. Probably equivalent to owning a chademo car or the days of 50kW Tesla superchargers. With the ramcharger you could be electric and never pay for gas in your regular routine, but still load up the camper or boat and go 400 miles without worrying about where chargers are or having to block space or unhitch the trailer just to charge.
That's why the Tesla truck can only deliver potato chips. The batteries weigh so much that they can't haul much. You run into problems with total vehicle weight.
Hey how much more range could you squeeze out of a Telo if you put an aerodynamic roof on the bed? Like the hatch of an Aptera. It wouldn't be perfect obviously but maybe could squeeze an extra 20% range on freeway driving?
First off, I wouldn't trust RAM tech right away, especially on the hybrid. Silly complexity, people are inherently cheep once they realize they can save a lot of money running electric only they will avoid the gas station then what happens to the gas engine that isn't being used often enough.??? Also, big batteries reduces towing capacity, and that's a problem.
The biggest factor is how expensive it’ll be vs how many people will pay that much to get a few more miles. I 6,000,000% guarantee you if they had data that people would buy it in mass they’d make it work
Stellantis is the laughing stock of the automotive industry. The charger and challenger were their only “good” offerings and even then the crowd they attracted were rather similar to the Altima crowd.
Everyone remembers the Bolt when it was on clearance sale for $25k. Nobody paid any attention to it when GM was selling it for $45k. Because the Bolt was a $10k econocar with a $15k battery pack. Folks think the Ultiun Bolts are going to still be $25k, but they're not, and folks are going to remember why they ignored the $45k Bolt.
6:14 "People cannot wrap their brain around how many batteries that is" I have an EV, and I took it camping with some of my family a while back, and I just let everyone charge their personal devices off my USB ports. Over and over again they kept asking "Are you sure? I don't want you to get stuck before reaching a charger."
"Mom, it's fine, you could literally charge your phone from my car five _thousand_ times and I could still get to a charger."
I would not be too sure of Stellantis’ success. They have overpriced most models and are now offering deep discounts to clear their lots. Sure they are big, but the jury is out on their success in the US.
Yes my money is on them going bankrupt within a decade. They won’t survive.
but if you complain about the prices from ford and gm I guess Chrysler becomes the option to go if everything is right.
Hahaha 😂. Nowhere near enough.
One of the primary reasons to move to an EV is to get rid of the ludicrously less-efficient, maintenance and failure-prone jumble of intricate parts of a combustion engine. I cannot take any vehicle seriously that insists on shoving an ICE back into an EV.
Consumers: we want th ability to drive for 6+ hours without stopping.
Consumers stomachs: ... But why?
Consumers bladders: am i a joke to you?
Real benefit is for towing. Thing is, there just aren't a lot of people who tow stuff regularly. At least for now, those people will just stick with an ICE vehicle.
In five years the cost of large batteries will come down enough that the price increment for 500 miles (or 300 miles while towing something) will be so low that it will just become standard. But we're not there yet.
If you drive 60 miles an hour you can achieve that range but most people are trying to drive 75 to 80 miles an hour in the EV
80mph towing 10k laughing in 100 miles range … that’s the real reason … at least gym has a max pack who does 250miles at 70mph and 10k towing
When I road trip I have the following hopes
I want to show up with atleast 20 miles range (30 miles would be better)
I want to leave with 75% charge . . Let's push to 80%, even if I find that inefficient.
Travelling highway speed (80 mph) I usually get about 80% of the EPA range.
The battery pack will degrade about 10-15% over the 3 years I have owned my Tesla.
With all of those parameters, What range do I need to drive 3.5 hours at 80 mph 3 years into ownership?
520 miles of range.
This is getting worse with kids, kids don't wait for a bathroom break til their is a Supercharger near by.
So please, keep working on Battery tech and find a way to get me a 7 seat SUV with 450+ miles range! That is what I want, but I can wait until then. I just wish my Tesla didn't depreciate in value so much or I would get a longer range variant.
@ sure I got just a car for you the new Cadillac Escalade IQ starting price hundred and $150,000
They should make the truck longer and narrower and flatter. That would reduce drag for the same volume of batteries… 😅
The Ramcharger could be the best-selling EV truck this year. They will fly off dealer lots.
What’s wrong with buttons? Not everything needs to be on a screen. Nothing like taking eyes of the road to find heated seats option on the screen
They cost more
That was a lot of buttons.
Buttons are more engaging. Personally, I am indifferent, but in a car or SUV (blech!) screens are fine. I could argue that they are overdone. Plus, they take your eyes off the road longer than something tactile. Humans are afterall still tactile creatures in addition to the visual. Furthermore, when hopping into a truck, knobs and buttons are easier to use with gloved hands (if you are actually using your truck as a, well, truck.)
its so annoying as i would happily fork out way more money for a truck with 500 plus range
Allow me to introduce you to the Silverado EV
They’d rather sell 50% more trucks for 20% less that actually make a small profit.
YES! We need a 500 mile range monster tello truck!
I agree with a lot of your points, but the Silverado didn't scale until Q3 of 2024. Early models were out to press much earlier, but wide availability didn't happen until late Q2 and early Q3. Even then, the offerings were the basic work truck with no options and the $95k top end model. The mid range LT which will compete with the F150 started sales in late November.
How about bringing back the small pickup trucks and making them all electric?
I miss those small trucks….remember the little Isuzu pickups from the 1990’s ? They were excellent little pickup trucks for around $10,000. We don’t need a box on wheels, add some aerodynamics, a few curves.
A small pickup truck would take a smaller battery pack and should be less expensive to manufacture.
The problem is that pickup trucks and SUV’s in this country are getting way too big, we don’t need big tanks driving down the road just to go to the store or just to run around in.
Heard of Telo?
@@TailosiveEV Actually no. This is my first time hearing of that name. I guess I need to look it up.
@@TailosiveEV Looked it up, the Telo looks interesting but it should be an extra cab. Not some four door mess.
Tesla should build a pickup based on the model y platform. Would be great for many people.
Back in the late 90's Ford had an Electric Ranger.
Rumors of BYD financial shenanigans are afoot. Suppliers are taking hits not being paid for 200+ days. They may not be turning a profit at all.
I doubt that cause the chinese do not allow this. If you do not pay your suppliers in China then you can face prison - I doubt this will happen in the USA this way. BYD as arrived in europe quite strong but with high prices at the VW level - before the tarifs kicked in which are a shame cause the chinese did not undercut,quite the opposite, they were expensive or 3 times of what they cost in china itself which is a lot. And that was before they had put tarifs on the chinese cars.
You are 100% right. I just wish they would just make a change to get their trucks to 500 or 600 mile range
Or . If people could change and stop thinking they need the ability to drive 6+ hours without stopping.
@CSHarvey yes you forget about farmers who need to tow or people who need to tow. It's not always about what's best for everyone else
1200 yes I have talked to so many people that are interested in the Ramcharger, it enables trips in places like Alaska where DC chargers are far between, I think this may be one of their best selling products.
The problem is RamCharger. It just makes so much more sense, than a 500mi inefficient EV truck you'll have to wait forever to charge (@ common 150KW), assuming you can unhitch and fit it into a stall. Otherwise, daily, it's all electric. Dude, check the reservation list. Stellantis is just going where the market is!
Automakers are realizing that if you need more than 100 or 130 kWh in an EV, then you're better off with a range extender. It's a formula based on cost and weight.
Who is using a Range extender? I haven't seen one yet.
@@DanDeGaston Not yet in North America, but they're coming. Range extenders have already become quite popular in China.
@@DanDeGaston It's a Chevy Volt, scaled up. No EREV trucks are for sale though.
As you said - battery energy density and price is paramount. IMHO, Telo needs to keep focus on getting their first truck into profitable production ASAP. Then in a few years, when batteries are more dense and less costly, incorporate the latest cell tech into the same physical space for a 500 mile range. But a significant redesign to add battery capacity now is detrimental to the mission.
I think you got it right. We don't see electric pickups with 500 mile freeway range (assuming cruising at 70mph) because the manufacturers don't believe there are that many people who are willing, or able, to spend that kind of money on an all electric pickup. The one complaint I hear from consumers is that cars and trucks are too expensive. People's incomes have not been keeping up with inflation, and the price of cars and trucks have risen more than most things. Consumers have to be cost conscious, and ultra long range EVs don't make a lot of sense. According to Car and Driver, a 2024 Model 3 Performance has a 260mi highway range at 75mph, so if you charge from 10% to 80% you are getting about 182mi or 2.4 hours between charging. That could be reasonable if you make a couple of long road trips every month. If you only take a couple of long road trips a year, it would make a lot of sense to skip the long range battery pack, particularly as fast charging becomes more reliable. If the next generation Model S had 500 mile range, the distances between charging stops (10% to 80%) could be 303mi or 4 hours. How many people would really want to go that long between charging stops? How much would they be willing to spend to be able to do that if they only took a few road trips a year? I'd argue that few people would be willing to spend for a 500 mile range in any EV, to say nothing of a full sized pickup which would make the proposition much more expensive. The manufacturers are just being sensible.
Here in Western Australia our rural fast charging network is crap. We need 500 mile / 800 km range so we can tow a caravan and skip broken chargers if necessary.
The biggest preventative issue is building a vehicle for a 1% use case that costs 200% more than a vehicle that covers the 99% use case.
98% of ice trucks range between 300-400 miles per tank. Less than 2% can go to 450-500. You know why so little? Cause you would need a 45 gallon drum for gas or diesel. So why put a 200kW battery when more than 90% need more than 200 miles of range less than 10% of the time and pull trailers in average twice per year?
I have the same chair you were sitting on in this video. I have a 300 mile Cybertruck Cyberbeast, and I have been able to drive 900 miles in a day with it. I have been testing the Cybertruck in sub -20f weather, and it has done well. If there were no Cybertruck I would be interested in the Ram Charger.
10:39 GM did not stop making the Bolts. According to Mary Barra, a Gen 3 Bolt comeback is expected later in 2025.
How can it comeback if they never stopped? Yes they’re planning a return but that doesn’t mean it’s still in production
@@TailosiveEV Later on, you said, "They weren't making money on them, so why would they keep manufacturing them?" (10:48)
That implies that GM gave up the idea of making the Bolts altogether, which is not true.
I have '22 Bolt bought used, so I'm really in what the new Bolt is like. Add 40 miles range and triple the DC charging speed and nothing else really needs changing.
Tesla make good profits in part because they have barely changed the design across 4 models in a decade.
@@ziploc2000 I love my Bolt and am curious about the new Bolt, too - but I would also be interested in the Telo e-truck... if they ever start offering it for a reasonable price.
@Pankratnazar-m1n We're going to have to replace other vehicle, a Honda Odyssey, eventually, but we won't need two Bolts. Whatever we eventually get will be a bit bigger for longer family trips, but hopefully fully electric too.
Right now the Bolt is the car of choice, always the first one off the driveway, and the poor Odyssey is used maybe once a week.
The most important limiting factor for large battery packs is on the supply side: how fast you can get that energy back.
There are three practical reasons to have 500 mile range:
1. Long-distance road trips, especially while towing.
2. Very long range daily work, where you start and end your trip at the car's Level 2 charger.
3. Cold-weather operations.
Let's use the Cybertruck as an example. It has a 120kWh battery pack. If the efficiency stayed the same, it would take a 180kWh pack to get 500 mile range. Let's look at the scenarios above:
1. Currently, driving from Duchesne, UT to Seattle, WA takes 18.5 hours in a Cybertruck, 5 of which are charging. You don't really cut this time with a 500 mile range unless it comes with both a better low-end charging curve AND true V4 superchargers along the entire route. So the problem is, mostly, lack of charging infrastructure, not range.
2. This is where you really get a benefit, in theory. But that's only if you can start with 100%. A Tesla Wall Connector charges at 11.5kW in its most powerful configuration. So it would take about 14 hours to charge a 500 mile Cybertruck from 10% to 100%. So if you really need to use, say, 400 miles/day, you're not going to be able to do that every day using just a Level 2 charger overnight. You'll need to have access to a Supercharger at some point during your day, so you probably don't need the 500 mile range if that's available. And if you're in a DC fast charging dead zone, you're only going to be able to use that 500 mile range occasionally if you use your Cybertruck all day for work.
3. Cold weather just makes scenarios 1 and 2 worse, as far as charging speed, which is the limiting factor. Sure, you get more real-world range in cold weather with a 500 mile EPA range. But that cold weather is really going to hit both DC fast charging and L2 charging speed unless you have a heated garage to charge in, making it hard to utilize that increased range more than occasionally.
This is why 500 mile range trucks are impractical. Not due to battery availability or profitability, but because you don't get a consistent, everyday benefit from that large battery due to inadequate charging infrastructure. Better DC fast-charging curves only help for long road trips, and only if every charger on the trip is a top-end fast charger running at max capacity. The problem is on the supply side.
The problem isn't vehicle range. Rather, it is the lack of fast charging in more locations, especially in more rural areas not close to Interstate Highway corridors. For ICE vehicles there is always a gas/diesel station just about everywhere even if it's a small convenience store in the middle of nowhere. Until fast EV charging is similarly available, longer range vehicles will be desirable to a rather small subset of EV owners.
Excellent summary. But you should have discussed the 2 truck markets - those who tow and those who don't. What is lacking is a truck with aerodynamics optimized for pulling typical pickup trailers. Think a small version of the Tesla semi with range of 250-300mi while towing a typical load at typical speeds. While the A is relatively fixed, there a lot that can be done to optimize the Cd of the truck-trailer combo.
6:39 I've noticed the same thing with the Sliverado EV LT trim... it's cheaper than the Cybertruck, and it gets more range... it's more appealing to me. But you are right, I wish they could scale it more
I would definitely be interested in the Ramcharger ONLY IF those are under $80k and qualify for the full Federal EV Tax credit (assuming those are still around).
Thr BYD shark has all the mounting brackets for a bigger battery that extends to where the fuel tank and muffler is. I think BYD is planning on making a full EV version in the future. But with regards to range, my old petrol 4WD only had 520km (320mi) of range until it stopped (my daughter tested it).
but it might erupt into flames as byd's tend to do
the problem is the charge time. the more kwh the battery, the longer the charge time with the same charger output.
This has been partially mitigated with 800V architectures. Most EVs use 400V, so they charge at half the speed of those with 800V.
Bingo, 250-300 mile range was average in the 90s. It’s the charging time and lack of infrastructure. When you have kids or own a business, things come up all the time. We need better batteries and infrastructure
Charging 0-50% is way faster than 50-100, so bigger can still be better, because you don’t have to charge as deep.
The bigger the battery, the more power you can charge it with at the same C rate.
I still think the hybrid option with 200 miles of ev range is great. Its a generator, if you need to haul evs are great, but not far, like what Edison motors is doing. Honestly anything truck size should be a hybrid since its a tool and most of these trucks offer generator, bidirectional home backup. which should be the focus on a truck is utility
The RamCarger is 100% the way to go. 150-200 miles or range on battery alone. All the benefits of electric performance and maintenance. But for when you need to take the occasional trip that is greater than a 200 mile round trip, you have a gas back up. The average person isn't doing more than 50 miles round trip each day. So you might fill that gas tank once a month if that. Brings your fuel cost way down for a truck that size, and you have the range when you occasionally need it. Plus not having to worry about a charging infrastructure that is very slowly expanding, and is unreliable for 3rd party non-tesla chargers.
The gas back-up would also allow for heating and cooling of the cabin under extreme outdoor temperature conditions.
I had a Cybertruck order for four years, but ended up getting the Sierra EV because it had much more range. We have lots of 300 to 350 mile range EVs. Give us some 500+ mile range options already. Some people want / need that. Especially on a pickup. We don’t all live in a city with lots of charging locations and a temperate climate.
I think for the Telo truck, the current range options are fine. I see that being more of a run around / random task pickup, not a haul or tow heavy loads long distances kind of pickup.
It seems to me the perfect balance would be 100-150 miles of electric range in a full size truck which would equate to like 60-70 kWh and then switching to an ideally diesel powered generator for long haul/heavy hauling. Theyre prioritizing range vs efficiency. If I could do my day to day stuff on electric but still have the ability to burn some dinosaurs to go for a long haul and still have the responsiveness and torque of electric that would be amazing. But that would make too much sense
500 mile range EV trucks get there by having 200 kWh batteries.
That makes them gigantic 9000 pound monstrosities and cost over $100,000.
Another issue is that even if a pickup was able to travel 500 miles under ideal conditions, range when fully loaded and/or when towing would be much lower.
captain obvious
@slopedarmor agreed it's obvious, but it wasn't discussed in the video, and it was one of the biggest complaints with Cybertruck.
I think that towing would be the real reason to buy an ultra long range pickup. If the next generation Lightning were able to run 500 miles at 70mph unladen, it might be able to go over 250mi when towing a car trailer at 60mph, which means if you normally charge from 10% to 80% you can go for 175mi between charging stations. If we suddenly got pull through charging stations, then long distance towing might actually be somewhat tolerable.
@ that is the whole reason why people wanted 500 mile range pickups
Well I just totaled my car back in December I bought a ICE vehicle specifically the Ford Ranger 2024 the reason is because I don’t want a F150 size vehicle that can’t even fit in my garage. The other is because I live in a cold climate and when temperatures drop so does the range on these EVs dramatically.
Also battery health seems to deteriorate quite quickly meanwhile a ice vehicle will have the same range on day 1 or day 1000
Ford has proven how difficult it is to sell the electric pick up truck in America. There’s no need for them to jump into this race prematurely on top of the bankruptcy issues.
The growth in vehicle sizes is a sickness and a deadly one at that. It kills pedestrians and others more and more every year.
They don’t 0:28
I think solid state batteries will be a game changer for 500 mile EVs because, when they come out, the price of current batteries will plummet; thus taking care of the existing cost barrier you speak of.
Then, as solid state batteries become more widespread, that will translate into cheaper solid state batteries being available and so on...
I know many people that will be very interested in the Ramcharger, and are actually waiting for it. Most just need the range for towing, or peace of mind. It is a very interesting concept, most of the benefits of electric drive train, with built in generator backup. More maintenance cost yes, but worth it for added range, towing, etc. It will be a good bridge vehicle for people not willing to go full EV yet.
They keep cancelling these 500 mile trucks because they lose $50000 per units sold.
p=i*e. the voltage doesn't change the power required from the charger. a 65 KWH battery requires 65 KW for one hour of charging. a 350 KW (the max you will find) fast charger will charge it in 19 minutes. to double the range, you would need a 130KWH battery, and that would take 38 minutes to full charge. Your normal home has about 20KW available, so the 130KWH battery would take 6.5 hours to charge. Fast chargers really load the grid, and 350 KW (enough power to supply 15 average homes) may not be available in remote areas. and this is multiplied by the # of chargers at the charging station. a charging station with 5 fast chargers would require 1.7 MW!
seems like it might be time to retire the Tesla flag now that ... well, you know.
I do love buttons, but the cockpit of that truck is ridiculous!
Yes you could have a fraction of those and still not lose much functionality.
Stretch Telo... make the wheelbase a little longer stuff the extra space with batteries.... for the same frontal area.
I really want a small pickup that’s full EV and could care less about the range. Make a Telo with a 200 mile range that costs $6k less and that’s the one I’ll go for. I love my egolf, but it’s not my road trip vehicle. That’s what the Y is for. My Telo does not need to do everything either
It’s because efficiency is tied to weight. More batteries makes more weight therefore less efficient so you need to add more batteries but that adds more weight so you add more batteries and you lose more efficiency. Batteries need to be half the weight to get to 500 miles of range and maintain 3.5 to 4 miles per kilowatt hour
Mary you did it!
RAM is too stupid to make EVs
The range tipping point for me to fully be eager to buy a BEV is a battery capable of going 400 miles per charge. 14:00
Charging at home with a 9.6 or 11.5 kw charger means I can maximize battery life and go 15 years or beyond if I limit daily use to 60%, or 240 miles going from 20% to 80% SOC. Once the battery lasts 15 years or more the long term economics make sense at current vehicle purchase prices especially when considering lower maintenance costs for an EV vs. an ICE equivalent.
The Silverado EV LT with the midgate is perfect for me because I don’t want to repair the RST’s 4WS and air suspension problems that won’t exist either just the LT.
Now only if I could order one in the color I want . . .
Yes, a long-range TELO truck should be something they offer! It's what I will buy. It would add to the practicality factor for towing as well as charging at home. I have solar on my roof and batteries in my garage. With 500 mile range, I could drive round trip from my home in Portland to a Mariners game in Seattle (we do that at least twice/year) and not have to charge on the road.
Let’s get this straight pure ev trucks are money losers. They don’t have enough range and are as green as a diesel. The amount of mining needed to produce one of these trucks completely wipes out emissions savings.
Tesla also canceled 500 miles of range. I think you missed two things here. Manufacturers may have expected to discover some battery making miracle that cut battery costs in half by now. If they could do that, extra range is easy. I don't think they expected battery material advances because those come with manufacturing challenges, see 4680 development. Also, market research beyond social media may show that 300-350 miles of advertised range is just fine with actual buyers. People may say they want 500 here but if 300 sells, they do 300. Note that Dodge says that 300+ is fine as well. If next year the Silverado sales take off and 492 miles of range is fashionable, the other guys might all be wrong, we'll see.
Running the generator at peak efficiency rather than the constantly changing loads for driving loads, you gain considerable efficiency. Far more then I originally anticipated. I have a hybrid car (non plugin), and my gas bill is roughly on par with the charging bill if I had taken a tesla instead. Charging at home is cheaper but the supercharger prices are more. I drive both short and very long trips pretty evenly. Even though it's older now and not as efficient as new, I recently hit 4.0 L/100km (59mpg) over 1500km. (almost 1000miles)
I love the idea of the hybrid truck. I'm waiting on a cargo van version.
Maybe I’m completely wrong, but I think that electric pickup trucks will never be ideal for personal towing. We need like a Tesla semi mini. Space for batteries, toolkit, maybe 3 occupants and that’s it. And make the 3rd axle unpowered and detachable so that you could rapidly undock the trailer, go charge at any charger, and come back.
500 mile range EV trucks get there by having 200 kWh batteries.
That makes them gigantic 9000 pound monstrosities and cost over $100,000.
Stellantis has a huge problem.
The AMERICAN CONSUMER demands their RAM have a v8 engine. While it's passe for the smaller trucks to have a v6, they expect that big RAM to have a v8 even if it's a 5.7-L.
If I had to buy a RAM truck for work, I'd want the cheapest V8 possible even if I needed to buy a used model they no longer make.
If I had to buy a RAM truck right now as a flex, it would be the TRX.
The RHO is a bad joke to me.
I can say I am disappointed in Ram. The 500 Mile range is critical because not of the everyday drive but the fact that if you haul you can haul 250 miles which is 3 hours before you need to charge. I personally do not want a gas engine that I use a handful of times a year. But as I am just an average worker. I can not afford a house payment for a truck. So until they come down to a reasonable price it does not matter to most. Also I wish that there would be a good company that comes out with a reasonably priced subscription where you can have a car/suv when you want or a truck for hauling. I never mod my vehicles anyway.
Only two reasons to buy a full size pickup truck: 1. Towing. 2. Value signalling. EVs don't work well for either. Manufacturers need to focus on efficient people movers. EV minivan makes more sense.
Yes, you should definitely nag telo to make a 500 plus mile ev truck.
Signed, someone planning on getting a max range Silverado EV asap (who would be getting a telo if they were available and at or exceeding silverado ev range... who is also in line for an Aptera)
The Chinese ban on batteries are gonna hurt our domestic EV projects
Another reason for the large size of trucks is it's harder for the weight of a trailer to push the truck around. A truck needs to do more than just hold the weight up.
the commute part must be big and justify the EV part of a hybrid and
the towing or long distance part must justify the ice part
BMW had a smart move in their 2013 models as small efficient range extender. A V6 makes no sense in a hybrid with a 50 mls electric range.
But it is the entry for someone who is not convinced about pure electric and does have such opposite driving profile like many shorter commute trips and rather few long distance trips with a few towing occasions.
At the end the amount of buyers with such profile is quite limited too. Here less than 0,3% are trucks of these size no matter what drive train. You will get no parking lot or have to pay for 2.
Very simple, because pretty much no one needs 500 miles of range when most people can charge every night and dont drive more than 60 miles a day. That's pretty much the same as paying $1000 for smart phone to be on Tik Tok and Instagram all the time, and no one does that. Oh wait, ignore that smartphone part.😂😂😂😂😂
Federal tax credits should be available only on 300-mile (or better) EVs selling for under $35,000. Need to properly incentivize to boost demand for mass market production quantities. The engineers would deliver the needed solutions. Unfortunately, the federal government is now even more in bed with Big Oil.
The 2025 Silverado EV with Max Range is rated at 492 miles.
ehh, more like 390 in ideal situation and roughly 50% of that when towing average trailers
Yet no one owns one. They can’t build many of them
@@TailosiveEV ; yeah, I don’t think the Silverado EV max range at 492 miles is for sale yet. However, Chevy has announced it so, in 2025, it looks like there will eventually be a 500 mile EV range truck for sale.
Tesla Power wall cost 8.3 times more than a Model 3 Performan Battery back of the same proportional size. In the car you pay $120 per kilowatt but in the Power wall you pay $996 per kilowatt. That's why I may want home solar but there is no way I'm doing it at those prices
They already had another option and realized the pure BEV trucks were not selling
I still question the cost. If it’s too expensive it’s not worth buying over a full gas truck. 92kWh is still pretty heavy and expensive
@@TailosiveEV Look a these prices and battery sizes tho! 1. Tesla Model S (Long Range) 100 kWh (usable ~95 kWh) - $74,990
2. Tesla Model X (Long Range) 100 kWh (usable ~95 kWh) - $79,990
3. Ford Mustang Mach-E (Extended Range) 91 kWh (usable ~88 kWh) - $56,995
Seven years ago I was super excited for electric cars. In the last couple of years, I kind of don’t care anymore. They said they’ll get cheaper. I listen to and watch ev podcasts and UA-cam videos every day. And the prices? Barely shifted and I’m sick of waiting. Our next car will be petrol
Used market has gotten very good for EVs. All vehicles are more expensive including petrol.
It is only a matter of time before batteries get cheap enough.
The Tesla S came with a 65kWh battery as an option because batteries were expensive and there was limited availability. Now a M3 has a 60kWh battery.
My first EV has a 43kWh battery and my next one had a 60kWh battery both for the same price. Now you can't buy anything with less than 50kWh.
Give it 5yrs and we will get 100kWh batteries more often.
My experience with several Chevrolet dealers when trying to buy a Bolt EV was that they were totally focused on selling me an ICE pickup, their #1 profit maker. I can imagine if you go to buy an EV pickup, you will find maybe one to choose from, at $10k above MSRP, and several dozen ICE pickups, all "on sale." The price differential could be $40k or more and you will be made to look like an idiot for still wanting an EV.
Until batteries are 30% more power density, the erev style trucks make sense. If the cybertruck at its current weight could get 400 miles highway 70 to 75 mph highway, then it would be more popular despite its polarizing looks.
Why would they want to sell u an EV Truck when they could sell you an ICE with all the scheduled maintenance and an extended warranty purchase?
The headlong rush into electrifying big pickups is looking more and more like a "never mind the demand, think of the profit-per-unit" thing, with Lightning and Rivian having sales problems and the Cybertruck having all the earmarks of an "It" Car that falls out of fashion *hard* once everyone who wants one has one (there are signs this is happening already). Electric vans make much more sense and I could see Ford moving Lightning battery packs to the E-Transit since so many vans operate on fixed city-delivery or shuttle bus routes.
I can't rap around RAMS making electric vehicles. There's just gonna be a s*** ton of growing pains.
Dead on, there's just no money in it because there is a ceiling on customers will pay. GM especially can't possibly be charging what it costs to make those massive battery packs. Battery production doesn't scale costs, even if you bring it in house. It's just materials. Makes more sense to spread those materials over more cars with smaller batteries for maximum profit. Think of it this way: the Sierra/Silverado/Hummer battery pack is roughly twice the size of the Cybertruck's. So Tesla gets two sales out of the same material cost.
Id be curious about a range extender on the telo
I personally think battery tech is limited by physics. Lithium is a relatively light element and more of it can be crammed into a tighter space. Its is inpossible to acheive similar or even better energy density using more dense elements such as sodium or aluminum. Its kust a pipe dream.
Big expensive trucks are more about vanity over utility these days which is why the Hummer EV outsold the Silverado EV.
People who have never owned an EV are fixated on range.
Once you have an EV you understand that 500 mile range is stupid. Just a waste of money, weight, efficiency. Pickup truck buyers are worse because of the whole macho thing.
500 Miles means a lot more heavy batteries that you will need once a year or for very specific work. How many of these buyers are there. Maybe, 10k per year.
My wife's RAV4 Prime has a 50 mile battery only range, but also has a gas engine to generate more electricity to recharge the battery while driving. 90% of her day to day driving is done on the battery only, recharging overnight at home on a 20 amp 120 VAC circuit.
I was trying to hold out for the RAM hybrid but my 2012 Grand Cherokee reached that reliability point and Chrysler bought out the "lifetime extended warranty" for $5k towards a 2024 RAM 1500 Tradesman base model with lots of other incentives. A good choice fully meeting or needs until the RAM Charger is out and more affordable.
I have wanted a full electric vehicle since the late '60s.
It's all about towing and charging times. In all but the toy truck market those are critical. Longer range means improvement in overall usefulness. I'd go through the roof if a sub--contractor showed up late because of charging. Time is money and reputation.
Look at hummer lease .. that’s why they sell that many …. 77% buy back 24 months … it’s so weird … normal market is 50-60% .. i salute them on the lost coming in soon at auction
Because it's stupid. You have to shove so many batteries in it there's a law of diminishing returns.
I think they need the range, because of towing. Sure, everyday driving its not big deal. But, when your range is cut drastically the moment you start towing, normal truck people want that extra range.
It's all about COMPENSATION and the American ideal for wanting bigger, faster, stronger, tougher... vehicles. /s Personally I think that's a wrong decision. What I want is more affordable, more efficient, more eco-friendly models that prioritize making sure every budget can afford some version of an electric car or truck like China. Clearly it's possible and in theory profitable. I also wish we'd just allow city/kei BEV's directly from China as is because if it was TRULY a safety issue motorcycles wouldn't exist. Period. So clearly that's not it...
I do think one day all EVs will have >= 500 miles range. We’ve ran this test with gas cars, that’s the range people like. But not until batteries are cheaper. Lighter would help too.
I don’t think so. It’s relatively simple to get a gas vehicle to go 500 miles. Bigger gas tank isn’t that hard. Batteries will always have more weight to them. There will likely always be a huge cost advantage to lower range EVs because they don’t have to haul as many batteries everywhere, and with EVs we can charge from home (unlike gas cars) so I believe with enough charging infrastructure we can normalize 250 mile range EVs. People don’t road trip that long without stopping to eat or pee anyway
If batteries don’t become significantly cheaper and at least somewhat lighter I agree. I just think in 20-30 years from now they will be way cheaper and lighter.
So as far as the ram charger potential goes, I see towing as being its saving grace. Fact is ev towing experience is rather poor. Probably equivalent to owning a chademo car or the days of 50kW Tesla superchargers. With the ramcharger you could be electric and never pay for gas in your regular routine, but still load up the camper or boat and go 400 miles without worrying about where chargers are or having to block space or unhitch the trailer just to charge.
That's why the Tesla truck can only deliver potato chips. The batteries weigh so much that they can't haul much. You run into problems with total vehicle weight.
Most of them are delivering soda which is quite heavy. Semi trucks are often volumetrically limited rather than payload limited
no human body can drive for 500 Miles with zero stops .
we need to go to bathroom.
15 minutes gives model 3 80 percent .
they need to just use gas generators like Chinese do and use small batteries
Stellantis make plenty of competent EVs. They're all Peugeots, Opels, Fiats or Citroens and sold only in Europe.
500 miles is important to tow like an F150.
It’s aerodynamics. Truck = Brick
Hey how much more range could you squeeze out of a Telo if you put an aerodynamic roof on the bed? Like the hatch of an Aptera. It wouldn't be perfect obviously but maybe could squeeze an extra 20% range on freeway driving?
I saw the mockups of the solar roof but haven't seen any mockups of a tapering bed cap.
They claim the square bed cap has drag equal to no cap, but that misses the point that it might be possible to do better than either.
First off, I wouldn't trust RAM tech right away, especially on the hybrid. Silly complexity, people are inherently cheep once they realize they can save a lot of money running electric only they will avoid the gas station then what happens to the gas engine that isn't being used often enough.???
Also, big batteries reduces towing capacity, and that's a problem.
The biggest factor is how expensive it’ll be vs how many people will pay that much to get a few more miles. I 6,000,000% guarantee you if they had data that people would buy it in mass they’d make it work
Stellantis is the laughing stock of the automotive industry. The charger and challenger were their only “good” offerings and even then the crowd they attracted were rather similar to the Altima crowd.
The 2026 Bolt is coming later this year…
Everyone remembers the Bolt when it was on clearance sale for $25k. Nobody paid any attention to it when GM was selling it for $45k.
Because the Bolt was a $10k econocar with a $15k battery pack.
Folks think the Ultiun Bolts are going to still be $25k, but they're not, and folks are going to remember why they ignored the $45k Bolt.
@@CSHarvey It will have to be cheaper than the Equinox, at least.
You don’t know what it’ll cost yet