People like to through around “perfectly cast” too frequently like people might say Hugh Jackman is perfectly cast and he’s not he just does well with the character But the characters that are perfectly cast are Patrick Stewart as Professor X and Kelsey Grammar as Beast I think the other comic book characters who were perfectly cast were Christopher Reeve as Superman and Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool
Cyclops was killed off so quickly because just like Bryan Singer, James Marsden was committed to Superman Returns. So when stuff like that happens you write off the character, or that what most trilogies do, kill off characters.
That and Mr. Marsden's Cyclops was treated so poorly in the first two movies and he didn't like that. So,he asked to be killed off in "The Last Stand."
@@ericseitzler81Mr. Marsden didn't play Superman in "Superman Returns." That was Brandon Routh, who would later play Ray Palmer/The Atom in the DC Arrowverse shows like Arrow, the Flash and Legends of Tomorrow. James Marsden played Perry White's nephew who married Lois Lane in "Superman Returns."
The whole Jean grey/Phoenix story should be told over a full season of a TV show rather than any movie. Make a 12 episode TV show with the budget of a movie and that would probably be ideal.
They did a lot of bad and stupid stuff in this movie, but the part of Xavier messing with Jean's mind as a child to "protect" her and a hundred other bad, bad things he did over the years and didn't tell anyone, is actualy correct, comics wise. It was kind rushed on the movie, yeah, but it its a major plot point on his relationship with Jean and the rest of the x-men.
In the comic they retro fit the mental dampeners In her mind to fit the movie.which didn't t make sense as it was the phoenix force that had all the power and Jean grey was a low level telepath and telekinetic.
Yes and no. The Phoenix wasn't "an evil alternate personality who named herself Phoenix" - as the movie tried to frame with one line of dialog. The implication is that Xavier finds this mutant-version of "Dr. Jeckyll / Mr. Hyde meets The Bad Seed" and psychically puts her "Mr. Hyde" persona in cold storage. It's just such an oversimplification that made the entire story so uninteresting, and felt like a middle finger to what was clearly being setup in the previous chapter.
The problem is that he doesn’t even tell the other X-Men about Jean’s double personality, bringing everyone in danger after she returns. He should at least have told Scott.
People like to through around “perfectly cast” too frequently like people might say Hugh Jackman is perfectly cast and he’s not he just does well with the character But the characters that are perfectly cast are Patrick Stewart as Professor X and Kelsey Grammar as Beast I think the other comic book characters who were perfectly cast were Christopher Reeve as Superman and Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool
Like Spider-Man 3, main issue with this was that the film got too busy focusing on multiple plot threads and not enough time to properly flesh them out. Definite potential with doing their own take on the Dark Phoenix saga, but the behind-the-scenes issues of this film led the "cure" plotline to take center focus and the Dark Phoenix storyline not going anywhere for a decent amount of the film as a result.
X3 has too much in common with Raimi's SM3 on cast and plot overbloat, thanks to Arad, who's a toy maker not interested in comics. Arad saved Marvel from bankruptcy in the 1990s in the same way he hurts people's interests in franchises with live action movies, like TLOZ and Naruto.
Imagine if this film was just about the cure and the war between humans and mutants, along with a 2 hour time limit. Character development, extended mutant on mutant fight scenes, and darker storyline.
The MCU should just reboot Dark Phoenix as a miniseries as one of the main reasons WandaVision worked with Wanda's own mental health. Also, Eternals and Raya and the Last Dragon also should've been TV shows.
both were terrible movies but wasnt the explanation that it was a different timeline? i mean the whole Dark Pheonix movie itself doesnt make no sense if its still following the original x1-x3 timeline.
Yeah it’s a different timeline but also the events of Days of Future Past involving Charles, Magneto and Mystique should not have had too much of an effect on Jean Grey Or the time in which certain characters were born especially if their new versions of their character was born before the event of Days of Future Past in 1973 like Angel who was the same age in the 80s as we was in the 2000s and same with Jubilee however at least she is a nameless character in the original films unlike Angel
I actually liked that movie 🍿 🎥 but it had some serious faults. That version of the Phoenix was better than that underwhelming creation a few years ago. I cried at the beginning when Professor X disintegrated.
X-Men: The Last Stand was only an hour and 40 minutes long. When the first two movies, with fewer characters and simpler plots, were over 2 hours. This movie has the same problem I have with Young Justice, it’ll just throw in as many characters from the comics as possible just to make sure they get on screen somehow, but then never do anything with them. Leaving me wondering why they even bothered. X-Men: The Last Stand also filmed multiple alternate scenes where literately the opposite happens. Rogue takes the cure, Rogue doesn’t take the cure. Bobby and Kitty are recuctant to come along with Logan and Storm to the final battle, Logan’s reluctant to take to take Bobby and Kitty along. How can you even have a script when you have things like that? It’s just a mess.
Rogue was suppposed to have a boyfriend named Gambit, a snazzy jacket, to fly, to copy people like Megaman, and fight off with Carol Danvers Captain Marvel, but Fox didn't have the rights towards Captain Marvel from Marvel.
man, i was just thinking today, "i wonder what has happened to Famke Janssen? she seems to have lost a lot of limelight after the X-Men trilogy." and now this video is posted. you should do a "WTF Happened to Famke Janssen?"
AVI ARAD worked on the first movies as executive producer But for this one, he decided to step in as the main producer That's why we got a movie done by a director with no passion, and a limited story overstuffed with characters, just so he could sell more toys
I knew this film would be trash when they had Brett direct and when Singer pulled out to direct: Superman-Returns.Which is a very-BORING-film,also bland.
Shoe-horned... Thank you! That's exactly how The Phoenix story felt in this. At the time this was made, though, studios (and the general public) wanted more mutants and super heroes. This is what we got. Yeah, in hindsight it wasn’t true to the storyline, but it's not as bad as it's made out to be.
Dark Phoenix in this movie is an ableist caricature though. I mean, the whole story of the Dark Phoenix in the movie is that mental ill people are inherently violent and dangerous, which common (and harmful) Hollywood trope. That is why there was so much controversy surrounding M. Night Shyamalan's 'Split'. No offense, but it is kinda like saying Blackface was incredible.
Given that Ratner visually depicted her with only zombie makeup, backlighting, and a wind tunnel - let's call it a Phoenix WITHOUT ANY FLAME - I concur with "incredible" as in "not credible."
X2 did show that Jean was losing control and having powerful outbursts hinting at Phoenix. Most of the watchers knew what was going on with her. The movie was heavily affected by the actors/directors going on to different projects as you said in the video. The "war" was not a war it was Magneto rebelling against the cure being created and calling it a war, even the president in that movie said nothing about mutants other than Magneto and his attacks/threats .The Iceman/Rogue/ Kitty triangle 100%unnecessary. For hardcore comic fans this was a let down but for general audience seeing a superhero movie its was good hence the 400mil box office.
Bryan Singer left to make Superman Returns with James Marsden, who is in the Sonic live action movies and this as Cyclops, which failed alongside with X3. In Singer's script: -Professor X wasn't killed. That was until Singer left where Fox changed that. -Rogue wasn't meant to take the Mutant Cure. By having that in an opposite way, girls are offended of changing themselves in order to get guys. -Emma Frost was to help Magneto using telepathy to somehow unlock Jean's powers as the Phoenix out of Marvel's hierarchy of power. -Cyclops was the one to zap away the life of Jean from her body, turning her into the Phoenix Force. The Phoenix Force soared away in space to make a living, leaving the X-Men a message saying she would watch the team as time flows by. Singer left Fox because Fox was jealous of Singer on his decision to WB. Given to the fallouts of the Fox X-Men Universe, the sequels, X4-5, were canned. The main producer, Avi Arad, didn't help a lot because he is a toy maker all along not interested in comics. What a pain in the ass for me to watch X3.
So I guess Apocalypse written by Kinberg alone and dark phoenix written and directed by Kinberg aren't his fault either. He sucks at writing. Its that simple
If I was the character designer or the director of the MCU X-Men movies and was directing the character designers and makeup artist I’d make Beast look exactly the same but I’d just have the VFX artist enhance the body to make him a bit bigger with the proportions of a gorilla with the longer arms but apart from that this is the perfect live action Beast
the de-aging was amazing for the time & still pretty good, if obvious. the juggernaut's fake muscles were crap & the generic mutant army at the end was boring. but kelsey grammer was the perfect beast, agreed
I wish Kitty Pryde had a much more prominent role in these movies and one that was essential to the plot. She's such a great character and she has a cool power set. I think they did her dirty. Hopefully the next set of movies addresses that oversight. Plus they had Elliot Page and I think it's a shame when you don't utilize your talent. He's a very good actor and I think more Kitty would have added a lot to these movies. Fortunately we get another chance so now we can hopefully do better this time
I hope they don't do the dark phoenix in Marvel for a long time. The one thing MCU has that the two FOX versions didn't...they have established alien species.
The first movie in 2000 opened the door for the modern era of superhero films. Then came X2 released a year after Spider-Man, I think is one of the best sequels. After that, it is a shame that it went downhill with continuity issues that are irreparable.
I didn't think this was as bad as how many thought it was. Disappointing because they sidelined the Dark Phoenix storyline to share with the Cure. Had it been the other way around and Jean was front and center, with Cyclops not dying right away at the start, this could've been epic! But the deaths in this movie from the main characters actually gave the film urgency and made the Phoenix a real threat but they were not focused on it. Still hoping they get to tell the Dark Phoenix saga in its full glory complete with the Shi-ar empire and Lilandra as well as an accurate Age of Apocalypse saga because those were my favorite X-Men comics and they butchered it with the recent iterations with Sophie Turner and Oscar Isaac. Like Apocalypse literally scared me as a kid, but that movie was a joke. And both sagas cannot be fit into just now movie, it has to be built on in several parts to have the grand finale payoff ala LOTR Return of the King.
Imagine if Marvel didn't announce a X-Men movie, but rather The Phoenix Saga Part 1. Just hit the ground running. No time for X-men just mutants, now go!
Wasn’t Leech the little green boy from the Morlocks that showed up in a few episodes of the 90’s cartoon? 5th episode in season one, Lady Deathstrike episode in season 3 and a later episode where he was dying I believe.
So much waisted potential. Beast was a favorite of mine since before he had fur and once he joined the Avengers always one of the top of list. Shame this couldn't have been closer to and part of the MCU so we could have him a member there (Kelsey Grammer's version that is). And when I heard that Angel was going to be in it I so thrilled. I'm one of the few who bough the every issue of Champions (including their awesome appearance in Godzilla). And the only thing that made up for how aweful Marvel treated that team (what a rotten way to end the series; in a complete unrelated comic and as failures) was him betting to be back in the X-Men, but now as a veteran (and a constant thorn in Wolveeine's side). But like you showed they barely had him in the movie. Here's to hoping MCU's X-Men (and FF) get the respect they deserve.
Femke Jensen is stunning. She has classic beauty, and she seems like a nice person as well, which makes her even better, so don’t think what I’m about to say is a diss on her at all, because it’s not meant to be, but she seemed older than cyclops, and that juxtaposition always took me out of the movies. She’s the best Jean, but they didn’t fit.
Interestingly, I had a strong aversion to X-Men during my childhood, although I can't quite pinpoint why. However, as I've grown older, I began watching the series around two years ago, and to my surprise, I thoroughly enjoyed "The Last Stand."
I rather like this movie. Kelsey Grammer was excellent as Beast. The fight sequences at Alcatraz and Magneto lifting the Golden Gate Bridge were awesome.
This follows the rule of every third superhero movie being bad and disappointing. Just think about Superman 3, Batman Forever, Spiderman 3, Ironman 3...
Despite Kelsey Grammer's fabulous performance as Hank "Beast" McCoy, "X-Men: The Last Stand" remains an uneven installment in the "X-Men" film franchise. It's a low down dirty crying shame that many of the characters in "X-Men: The Last Stand," such as Angel (Ben Foster), Callisto (Dania Ramirez), Multiple Man (Eric Dane), and especially Juggernaut (Vinnie Jones), were largely wasted. Had Singer served as director instead of Ratner, the film would've fully explored the backstories behind those aforementioned characters. All in all, Singer's abrupt departure (albeit temporary) from the "X-Men" film franchise in late 2004--he instead opted to direct the misbegotten "Superman Returns" in favor of "X-Men: The Last Stand" (both films were released two months apart during the summer of 2006)--was a gigantic blow.
I liked the movie, it is far from great with many issues that could been handheld better, but even so, the movie was still enjoyable. The action was great, the CGI was amazing and it still looks nice even to this day, and putting aside the Jean Grey Phoenix subplot which agree was pointless and didn't go anywhere, the story had a lot potential to be great if they just stuck to the cure plot and not much else. I feel this movie had a lot of potential to be just as good as the first two Xmen movies, but they had to cram too much in less than two hours, which that rarely works.
Why not just be respectful anyway People might see this video in 10 years and think this guy is horrible for miss gendering a person without realising that the actor Elliot Page once had the name Ellen Honestly you don’t have to agree with whether a person can be transgender but what’s the point in not just saying the nice thing
“Sure it’s rubbery and overly smooth but that’s just how Marvel movies look” while referencing and comparing to modern MCU movies was an ice cold mic drop moment no lie.
Phoenix element of the story should have been the A-plot but I don't hate this one. It was just weaker than the others. If they had followed up with X4 dealing with the Marauders Massacre, followed by Muir Island and the reintroduction of Professor X.
What are you talking about? The Phoenix story in Last Stand is ableist towards mentally ill people. Dark Phoenix depiction of a mentally ill person was far better. It was more authentic and relatable.
@@KoolKeithProductions So you're saying that mental ill people are inherently violent and dangerous (as X3 states) because X3 was a Box Office success? LMAO That is your reasoning?
@@KoolKeithProductions I simply asked a question, didn't say anything. Do you think mental ill people are inherently violent and dangerous? Stop dodging the question, don't be a coward.
I think this is one of the most underrated superhero movies ever. Cyclops was killed off quickly and unceremoniously yes, but he is just cyclops, and brought very little in the series other than be the jealous boyfriend. C-Character. Gotta make room for Beast. They shouldn't have killed off Jean Luc Picard, I didn't like that part. Enjoyed the mutant cure storyline. Great performance by Gandalf as usual, demonstrating the power of his influence. They just tried to do too much and were spread too thin. Also pretty sure Multiple Man is a good guy.
Yeah. Phoenix needs at least a trilogy to introduce and finalize. Its far too important of a storyline to clear in one film, and i was shocked that while dark Phoenix is not a horrible film, its a horrible phoenix story. But x2 is far superior to the first. That opening scene is amazing, but whew, famke is just....perfection. or at least, she was, before all the plastic surgery
I've read the Dark Phoenix Saga every couple of years since the seventies when I first bought the comics. I remember crying when Jean Grey died. It was that good. Then Jean became like a cross town bus; if you missed her just wait half an hour she'll be back again. When I went to see the first X-MEN movie in theaters all I could hear on the way out way "I can't wait for Dark Phoenix!" All these years and all this technology later, the story is never right. Her hair is never right. There's none of the Phoenix costumes light or dark. There's no Shiar or Royal Guard battles. Instead it's just a weak story with the word Phoenix slapped on it. I've waited all these years to see Phoenix in live action with that majestic flaming bird imagery and have been repeatedly disappointed. So I'll just reread the comic or rewatch the cartoon. I'm old now and I'm done waiting for Hollywood (who never reads the source material) to get this right.
To be fair, we did get the majestic flaming bird imagery at the end of the Dark Phoenix. Marvel Studios is continuing the cinematic X-Men universe with the upcoming Deadpool/Wolverine movie. So we might see that Phoenix again.
Matthew Vaughn WAS hired to direct this!! And he chickened out three months before shooting so Brett Ratner was the best they could find on short notice (kind of like when a scrambling Marvel found the underwhelming Peyton Reed, under a rock somewhere, at the last moment to take on Ant-Man)
I think the biggest reason the story failed was because the run time was kind of short for the story and amount of new characters. X2 was 30 minutes longer than X3 was. With extra time they could have built the new characters because none of them really felt important besides beast. Angel, multiple man, juggernaut, Callisto and kid omega added nothing and felt generic and unimportant.
Anybody else spot Longshot? He pops in for a sec at the end. Him , Shatterstar, Forge in my top 5 without a doubt. Other than whatever they did to Shatterstar in Deadpool, I'm glad they haven't been butchered on the big screen.
The worst choice made, that even I someone who hasn't read the original story can recognize was the choice for Cyclops to die and Wolverine to kill Jean, what the actual heck was that? UH so bad but hey fun action!
For me I’d want the villains to be a decent version of the Brotherhood in the first MCU X-Men movie Have them still be Magneto’s Brotherhood but save Magneto for a later film and have the team be led by a decent version of Mystique who is a real villain (and is clothed) And have the team consist of Avalanche, Toad, Pyro and maybe even have Rogue be a member and have her be villain for most of the first movie and then she leaves the bad guys and becomes a member of the X-Men in a later movie Also it would be cool if there was a way to bring back Aaron Taylor-Johnson as Quicksilver (but they won’t) I think we definitely need a break from Magneto but even Mister Sinister is too big for a first movie Or they should just have someone like Arcade or Juggernaut be the villain of the first movie
Actually for those few reasons you've listed in the very first minutes of the video... This might be my Favorite X-Men of the "old gen" actors/stuffs series. Yes it might not top the first... and 2nd was a lil bit too drama for me back than, and probably now. But I also like Gene and her being one of the focal points if not you know... the focal point of this one... well you get the point. I have lots of other stuffs today, IDK in what order to attempt to make the most sense. Yes btw First Class (the alternative timeline is actually better movie wise, but only timeless Logan is old gen representing. Back than I might have been too fed up with single character focused movies (of other genres with other lead actors as characters) A movie where A or S tier main character is surrounded by equals or potential equals to the point they are normal "on screen" is more or less the idea of this movie in a way? I have actually also watched all the X-Men... like the Logan alone franchise... if you want Logan main... that is your thing. I don`t like cyclops much so him ending when he did... well he ended when he did. The End of Last Stand is tear breaking, admit it. I have given, due to some reasons, more than healthy amount of thoughts on what was depicted there and it was exact to a millisecond with "everything". Now the fact that >after< this movie stuffs branch out in awkward, non consistent to it ways... You know timeliness, public demands, stuffs... But this movie was intended as an end and an end it was. Also if you say that a movie that had a fling in between Maize Williams and Anya Tylor Joy was anything less than one of the greatest... well you are than wrong :P. Make another one of that movie that is practically exactly the same... just because :P. Joke aside I do wanna see development of Any`s vorpal blade power that, suspiciously so, looks like Kassadin from League of Legends. Now Maize`s turn into wolf power might have been a bit underwhelming... but 2 When. I said 2 When... I get very confused about all those timeline stuffs and which movie was which, but the one where they send Future`s Logan`s mind back into his time relevant past (in before the super adaptive, mega OP sentinels became a thing) is >the best< I think is the one that had the everyone`s favorite... erm that wealthy family from GoT character... and no Not Cersies or her Brother... How dare I forget... Targarians? I must have not watched the newest GoTs intensely enough. I mean having 3 seconds worth of memory of what is being seeing on watch, does not exactly cut it, now does it.
Are you seriously saying that the Phoenix story in this movie is a better representation of mental illness than the Dark Phoenix movie? Because every mental health expert will tell you that you're wrong.
They tried to play and fit way too many narratives in a overblown plot. It should have played more into the Phoenix growth because they could have easily stretched this storyline out with the Phoenix, at least for two movies.
Dark Phoenix story is very long because before Dark Phoenix saga was Phoenix saga when Jean Grey and Phoenix comes Together and Save the Marvel universe to be Destroy.
Kelsey Grammar was absolutely perfect as Beast. The only redeeming thing in the movie.
People like to through around “perfectly cast” too frequently like people might say Hugh Jackman is perfectly cast and he’s not he just does well with the character
But the characters that are perfectly cast are Patrick Stewart as Professor X and Kelsey Grammar as Beast
I think the other comic book characters who were perfectly cast were Christopher Reeve as Superman and Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool
Cyclops was killed off so quickly because just like Bryan Singer, James Marsden was committed to Superman Returns. So when stuff like that happens you write off the character, or that what most trilogies do, kill off characters.
You're right they could have him just go away somewhere
Lol funny how he went from marvel to DC the same year
I understand him leaving to play superman but he left just to be a glorified extra in it, stupid mistake!
That and Mr. Marsden's Cyclops was treated so poorly in the first two movies and he didn't like that. So,he asked to be killed off in "The Last Stand."
@@ericseitzler81Mr. Marsden didn't play Superman in "Superman Returns." That was Brandon Routh, who would later play Ray Palmer/The Atom in the DC Arrowverse shows like Arrow, the Flash and Legends of Tomorrow. James Marsden played Perry White's nephew who married Lois Lane in "Superman Returns."
The whole Jean grey/Phoenix story should be told over a full season of a TV show rather than any movie. Make a 12 episode TV show with the budget of a movie and that would probably be ideal.
No. TV shows are movies worth of plot stretched to 10 hours. I don’t want to spend 10 hours to watch a story that could be told in 2,5 hours.
Maybe. We have the 1992 animated series for that.
@@NecumNaTo Not exactly.
@@NecumNaTo Except that story can’t be told in 2.5 hours. That’s why it keeps failing.
@@TheRonnieaj It's the Phoenix *SAGA* for a reason. Dark Phoenix is just the final arc.
They did a lot of bad and stupid stuff in this movie, but the part of Xavier messing with Jean's mind as a child to "protect" her and a hundred other bad, bad things he did over the years and didn't tell anyone, is actualy correct, comics wise. It was kind rushed on the movie, yeah, but it its a major plot point on his relationship with Jean and the rest of the x-men.
If only we had focused more on that instead of whatever these subplots were going for at the time.
In the comic they retro fit the mental dampeners In her mind to fit the movie.which didn't t make sense as it was the phoenix force that had all the power and Jean grey was a low level telepath and telekinetic.
Yes and no. The Phoenix wasn't "an evil alternate personality who named herself Phoenix" - as the movie tried to frame with one line of dialog. The implication is that Xavier finds this mutant-version of "Dr. Jeckyll / Mr. Hyde meets The Bad Seed" and psychically puts her "Mr. Hyde" persona in cold storage. It's just such an oversimplification that made the entire story so uninteresting, and felt like a middle finger to what was clearly being setup in the previous chapter.
The problem is that he doesn’t even tell the other X-Men about Jean’s double personality, bringing everyone in danger after she returns. He should at least have told Scott.
They fucked a lot of stuff up, but Beast was great and is a good as you can do live action beast.
I liked the BEAST too,his character was nicely done and enjoyed his fight scenes.
People like to through around “perfectly cast” too frequently like people might say Hugh Jackman is perfectly cast and he’s not he just does well with the character
But the characters that are perfectly cast are Patrick Stewart as Professor X and Kelsey Grammar as Beast
I think the other comic book characters who were perfectly cast were Christopher Reeve as Superman and Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool
Like Spider-Man 3, main issue with this was that the film got too busy focusing on multiple plot threads and not enough time to properly flesh them out. Definite potential with doing their own take on the Dark Phoenix saga, but the behind-the-scenes issues of this film led the "cure" plotline to take center focus and the Dark Phoenix storyline not going anywhere for a decent amount of the film as a result.
#IBlameAviArad
X3 has too much in common with Raimi's SM3 on cast and plot overbloat, thanks to Arad, who's a toy maker not interested in comics.
Arad saved Marvel from bankruptcy in the 1990s in the same way he hurts people's interests in franchises with live action movies, like TLOZ and Naruto.
Imagine if this film was just about the cure and the war between humans and mutants, along with a 2 hour time limit. Character development, extended mutant on mutant fight scenes, and darker storyline.
The MCU should just reboot Dark Phoenix as a miniseries as one of the main reasons WandaVision worked with Wanda's own mental health. Also, Eternals and Raya and the Last Dragon also should've been TV shows.
i agree
the fact that
X MEN 3
showed Jean's parents are alive
but in the
DARK PHOENIX movie
they're dead
both were terrible movies but wasnt the explanation that it was a different timeline? i mean the whole Dark Pheonix movie itself doesnt make no sense if its still following the original x1-x3 timeline.
Yeah it’s a different timeline but also the events of Days of Future Past involving Charles, Magneto and Mystique should not have had too much of an effect on Jean Grey
Or the time in which certain characters were born especially if their new versions of their character was born before the event of Days of Future Past in 1973 like Angel who was the same age in the 80s as we was in the 2000s and same with Jubilee however at least she is a nameless character in the original films unlike Angel
I actually liked that movie 🍿 🎥 but it had some serious faults. That version of the Phoenix was better than that underwhelming creation a few years ago. I cried at the beginning when Professor X disintegrated.
Uh, we don't talk about that other movie 😅
I love this movie.
@@eandrad00 This movie was great. Much like the SW prequels, only comic geeks and virgin fanboys outright hated it.
I cried after watching this movie. LOL. A lot.
@@powerbadpowerbad "you would die for them???"
"Not for them...for YOU..."
😭😭😭
X-Men: The Last Stand was only an hour and 40 minutes long.
When the first two movies, with fewer characters and simpler plots, were over 2 hours.
This movie has the same problem I have with Young Justice, it’ll just throw in as many characters from the comics as possible just to make sure they get on screen somehow, but then never do anything with them. Leaving me wondering why they even bothered.
X-Men: The Last Stand also filmed multiple alternate scenes where literately the opposite happens. Rogue takes the cure, Rogue doesn’t take the cure. Bobby and Kitty are recuctant to come along with Logan and Storm to the final battle, Logan’s reluctant to take to take Bobby and Kitty along. How can you even have a script when you have things like that?
It’s just a mess.
#IBlameAviArad
It's always about toys sales
That's why TASM2 turned out the way it did
Never understood why the took an amazing character like Rogue and make her useless. So much potential to fail over and over again.
Yeah she does absolutely nothing after the First movie.
Rogue was suppposed to have a boyfriend named Gambit, a snazzy jacket, to fly, to copy people like Megaman, and fight off with Carol Danvers Captain Marvel, but Fox didn't have the rights towards Captain Marvel from Marvel.
man, i was just thinking today, "i wonder what has happened to Famke Janssen? she seems to have lost a lot of limelight after the X-Men trilogy." and now this video is posted.
you should do a "WTF Happened to Famke Janssen?"
I myself thought the Golden Gate Bridge floating scene was pretty tight.
I LOVED that scene !!! Showed Magneto's true power.
AVI ARAD worked on the first movies as executive producer
But for this one, he decided to step in as the main producer
That's why we got a movie done by a director with no passion, and a limited story overstuffed with characters, just so he could sell more toys
I knew this film would be trash when they had Brett direct and when Singer pulled out to direct: Superman-Returns.Which is a very-BORING-film,also bland.
Shoe-horned... Thank you! That's exactly how The Phoenix story felt in this. At the time this was made, though, studios (and the general public) wanted more mutants and super heroes. This is what we got. Yeah, in hindsight it wasn’t true to the storyline, but it's not as bad as it's made out to be.
This is my favorite X-Men movie. I know everyone hates it, but I love it mainly because of the dark Phoenix actually was just incredible.
Dark Phoenix in this movie is an ableist caricature though. I mean, the whole story of the Dark Phoenix in the movie is that mental ill people are inherently violent and dangerous, which common (and harmful) Hollywood trope. That is why there was so much controversy surrounding M. Night Shyamalan's 'Split'.
No offense, but it is kinda like saying Blackface was incredible.
Given that Ratner visually depicted her with only zombie makeup, backlighting, and a wind tunnel - let's call it a Phoenix WITHOUT ANY FLAME - I concur with "incredible" as in "not credible."
You can see a phoenix in water at the end when Jean Grey dies in X2.
With positive music for some reason.
Yeah, and Professor X is happy and says that everything is going to be okay.
@@stanlee3580 and she glows yellow a bit in X-men 1
@@jennybyford8071 I honestly don't remember that.
@@stanlee3580 when she’s helping control Wolverine in the statue as it ends.
X2 did show that Jean was losing control and having powerful outbursts hinting at Phoenix. Most of the watchers knew what was going on with her. The movie was heavily affected by the actors/directors going on to different projects as you said in the video. The "war" was not a war it was Magneto rebelling against the cure being created and calling it a war, even the president in that movie said nothing about mutants other than Magneto and his attacks/threats .The Iceman/Rogue/ Kitty triangle 100%unnecessary. For hardcore comic fans this was a let down but for general audience seeing a superhero movie its was good hence the 400mil box office.
Bryan Singer left to make Superman Returns with James Marsden, who is in the Sonic live action movies and this as Cyclops, which failed alongside with X3.
In Singer's script:
-Professor X wasn't killed. That was until Singer left where Fox changed that.
-Rogue wasn't meant to take the Mutant Cure. By having that in an opposite way, girls are offended of changing themselves in order to get guys.
-Emma Frost was to help Magneto using telepathy to somehow unlock Jean's powers as the Phoenix out of Marvel's hierarchy of power.
-Cyclops was the one to zap away the life of Jean from her body, turning her into the Phoenix Force. The Phoenix Force soared away in space to make a living, leaving the X-Men a message saying she would watch the team as time flows by.
Singer left Fox because Fox was jealous of Singer on his decision to WB. Given to the fallouts of the Fox X-Men Universe, the sequels, X4-5, were canned. The main producer, Avi Arad, didn't help a lot because he is a toy maker all along not interested in comics. What a pain in the ass for me to watch X3.
People shouldn't blame Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn for stuffing so much characters in
That was probably Avi Arad's call so he could sell more toys
So I guess Apocalypse written by Kinberg alone and dark phoenix written and directed by Kinberg aren't his fault either. He sucks at writing. Its that simple
#IBlameAviArad
@@christianschmidt8476
he's better as a producer though
That's how we got First Class
@@Zombiesnyder13 We got first class, because Matthew Vaugh is a decent director, not because someone give money, lmao
Nah if avi had a hand in it venom would be in the stupid movie 😂
The Umbrella Academy series came pretty close to doing a good Phoenix Saga story.
I don’t understand how marvel fked up the dark phoenix story TWICE. AND SOPHIES JEAN WAS ALREADY THE PHOENIX IN APOCALYPSE
The bright spot in this film is Kelsey grammar.
If I was the character designer or the director of the MCU X-Men movies and was directing the character designers and makeup artist I’d make Beast look exactly the same but I’d just have the VFX artist enhance the body to make him a bit bigger with the proportions of a gorilla with the longer arms but apart from that this is the perfect live action Beast
Despite its shortcomings, I'll still take "Last Stand" any day of the week over "X-Men: Dark Phoenix.
the de-aging was amazing for the time & still pretty good, if obvious. the juggernaut's fake muscles were crap & the generic mutant army at the end was boring. but kelsey grammer was the perfect beast, agreed
I wish Kitty Pryde had a much more prominent role in these movies and one that was essential to the plot. She's such a great character and she has a cool power set. I think they did her dirty. Hopefully the next set of movies addresses that oversight. Plus they had Elliot Page and I think it's a shame when you don't utilize your talent. He's a very good actor and I think more Kitty would have added a lot to these movies. Fortunately we get another chance so now we can hopefully do better this time
Dark Phoenix can never seem to be done right in the movies
It's too powerful a character to make sense in most any narrative you will see in a film.
The Dark Phoenix saga needs a tv series to hit all the comicbooks point or a film trilogy.
well hopefully the MCU will do it justice
I mean no offense, but have you actually read the Dark Phoenix Saga or just seen plot summaries on UA-cam like most people?
I hope they don't do the dark phoenix in Marvel for a long time.
The one thing MCU has that the two FOX versions didn't...they have established alien species.
The first movie in 2000 opened the door for the modern era of superhero films. Then came X2 released a year after Spider-Man, I think is one of the best sequels. After that, it is a shame that it went downhill with continuity issues that are irreparable.
I dunno who thought Bobby would actually pick Kitty over Rogue
he probably regrets it now that she's a guy
@marlon clark no, she a dude without a dick.....
Elliott Page 🥰🥰🥰
I didn't think this was as bad as how many thought it was. Disappointing because they sidelined the Dark Phoenix storyline to share with the Cure. Had it been the other way around and Jean was front and center, with Cyclops not dying right away at the start, this could've been epic! But the deaths in this movie from the main characters actually gave the film urgency and made the Phoenix a real threat but they were not focused on it. Still hoping they get to tell the Dark Phoenix saga in its full glory complete with the Shi-ar empire and Lilandra as well as an accurate Age of Apocalypse saga because those were my favorite X-Men comics and they butchered it with the recent iterations with Sophie Turner and Oscar Isaac. Like Apocalypse literally scared me as a kid, but that movie was a joke. And both sagas cannot be fit into just now movie, it has to be built on in several parts to have the grand finale payoff ala LOTR Return of the King.
Juggernaut should have been bigger, much bigger.
Imagine if Marvel didn't announce a X-Men movie, but rather The Phoenix Saga Part 1. Just hit the ground running. No time for X-men just mutants, now go!
It's easier to enjoy these movies when you know nothing about the comics, which I don't, originally I thought it was live action of the cartoons.
Wasn’t Leech the little green boy from the Morlocks that showed up in a few episodes of the 90’s cartoon? 5th episode in season one, Lady Deathstrike episode in season 3 and a later episode where he was dying I believe.
Yes, I believe so.
Yes
Maybe the biggest crime here is how Rogue is underused. But overall still an enjoyable movie.
So much waisted potential. Beast was a favorite of mine since before he had fur and once he joined the Avengers always one of the top of list. Shame this couldn't have been closer to and part of the MCU so we could have him a member there (Kelsey Grammer's version that is). And when I heard that Angel was going to be in it I so thrilled. I'm one of the few who bough the every issue of Champions (including their awesome appearance in Godzilla). And the only thing that made up for how aweful Marvel treated that team (what a rotten way to end the series; in a complete unrelated comic and as failures) was him betting to be back in the X-Men, but now as a veteran (and a constant thorn in Wolveeine's side). But like you showed they barely had him in the movie. Here's to hoping MCU's X-Men (and FF) get the respect they deserve.
Femke Jensen is stunning. She has classic beauty, and she seems like a nice person as well, which makes her even better, so don’t think what I’m about to say is a diss on her at all, because it’s not meant to be, but she seemed older than cyclops, and that juxtaposition always took me out of the movies. She’s the best Jean, but they didn’t fit.
You should do a video over "Kyle XY" and "Point Pleasant"
Bro I’d take any of these old 2000s fox movies rather than anything the MCU has been doing over the last few years
Agreed man
the early 2000s fox and Sony films will always be better than the current films today.
basically, any old film from the early to mid 2000's will always be the best.
Interestingly, I had a strong aversion to X-Men during my childhood, although I can't quite pinpoint why. However, as I've grown older, I began watching the series around two years ago, and to my surprise, I thoroughly enjoyed "The Last Stand."
I rather like this movie. Kelsey Grammer was excellent as Beast. The fight sequences at Alcatraz and Magneto lifting the Golden Gate Bridge were awesome.
A few Highlights !
This follows the rule of every third superhero movie being bad and disappointing. Just think about Superman 3, Batman Forever, Spiderman 3, Ironman 3...
Jean Grey is the Bully Maguire of X-Men.
A thoughtful critique. Thanks.
Correction. Kitty Pryde was played by Ellen Page.
Despite Kelsey Grammer's fabulous performance as Hank "Beast" McCoy, "X-Men: The Last Stand" remains an uneven installment in the "X-Men" film franchise. It's a low down dirty crying shame that many of the characters in "X-Men: The Last Stand," such as Angel (Ben Foster), Callisto (Dania Ramirez), Multiple Man (Eric Dane), and especially Juggernaut (Vinnie Jones), were largely wasted. Had Singer served as director instead of Ratner, the film would've fully explored the backstories behind those aforementioned characters. All in all, Singer's abrupt departure (albeit temporary) from the "X-Men" film franchise in late 2004--he instead opted to direct the misbegotten "Superman Returns" in favor of "X-Men: The Last Stand" (both films were released two months apart during the summer of 2006)--was a gigantic blow.
A great break down and fair. Nice work.
Totally forgot Ellen Page was in this movie.
I liked the movie, it is far from great with many issues that could been handheld better, but even so, the movie was still enjoyable. The action was great, the CGI was amazing and it still looks nice even to this day, and putting aside the Jean Grey Phoenix subplot which agree was pointless and didn't go anywhere, the story had a lot potential to be great if they just stuck to the cure plot and not much else. I feel this movie had a lot of potential to be just as good as the first two Xmen movies, but they had to cram too much in less than two hours, which that rarely works.
You can say Ellen. That's what she went by back then.
yep
Why not just be respectful anyway
People might see this video in 10 years and think this guy is horrible for miss gendering a person without realising that the actor Elliot Page once had the name Ellen
Honestly you don’t have to agree with whether a person can be transgender but what’s the point in not just saying the nice thing
Great video Sir
I remember enjoying it in theatres, but thinking how lame Rogue’s triangle nonsense was wasting screen time
These movies never did justice to my favorite character Storm who is a powerful mutant in her own right. 🤨🤨🤨
Days of Future Past was cool but I want a full on Age of Apocalypse. Also, where's our Kingdom Come trilogy?
Goddamned instantaneous nightfall...
I never saw it as Charles dying. I took it as the small part of Jean transported him before the Phoenix did kill him.
I don’t read comics but love or hate it I think it has it’s moments I enjoyed X-men Dark Phoenix from 2019 I saw in theaters and then on DVD
The MCU needs to do an X-Men streaming series instead of films. That will super extend the story arc.
“Sure it’s rubbery and overly smooth but that’s just how Marvel movies look” while referencing and comparing to modern MCU movies was an ice cold mic drop moment no lie.
I liked the end credits in the comics. Nice!
Phoenix element of the story should have been the A-plot but I don't hate this one. It was just weaker than the others. If they had followed up with X4 dealing with the Marauders Massacre, followed by Muir Island and the reintroduction of Professor X.
This movie was great. They tried to do it over recently and effed it up even worse lmao
What are you talking about? The Phoenix story in Last Stand is ableist towards mentally ill people. Dark Phoenix depiction of a mentally ill person was far better. It was more authentic and relatable.
@@agentofchaos7456 Is that why it bombed at the box office? lol
@@KoolKeithProductions So you're saying that mental ill people are inherently violent and dangerous (as X3 states) because X3 was a Box Office success? LMAO That is your reasoning?
@@agentofchaos7456 Sure. Whatever you say 😜
@@KoolKeithProductions I simply asked a question, didn't say anything. Do you think mental ill people are inherently violent and dangerous? Stop dodging the question, don't be a coward.
I think this is one of the most underrated superhero movies ever. Cyclops was killed off quickly and unceremoniously yes, but he is just cyclops, and brought very little in the series other than be the jealous boyfriend. C-Character. Gotta make room for Beast.
They shouldn't have killed off Jean Luc Picard, I didn't like that part. Enjoyed the mutant cure storyline. Great performance by Gandalf as usual, demonstrating the power of his influence.
They just tried to do too much and were spread too thin.
Also pretty sure Multiple Man is a good guy.
The movie's depiction of Jean's mental health issues is pretty ableist. So I wouldn't say it was underrated.
Yeah. Phoenix needs at least a trilogy to introduce and finalize. Its far too important of a storyline to clear in one film, and i was shocked that while dark Phoenix is not a horrible film, its a horrible phoenix story. But x2 is far superior to the first. That opening scene is amazing, but whew, famke is just....perfection. or at least, she was, before all the plastic surgery
I wouldn't call it a horrible story. It was simply about showing the origin of the Phoenix.
Xmen seriously needs to be a TV series and not a movie series tbh
They tried Phoenix Saga and failed twice!!!!
How is that possible
I hate how singer ruined Rogue
me too
I've read the Dark Phoenix Saga every couple of years since the seventies when I first bought the comics. I remember crying when Jean Grey died. It was that good. Then Jean became like a cross town bus; if you missed her just wait half an hour she'll be back again. When I went to see the first X-MEN movie in theaters all I could hear on the way out way "I can't wait for Dark Phoenix!" All these years and all this technology later, the story is never right. Her hair is never right. There's none of the Phoenix costumes light or dark. There's no Shiar or Royal Guard battles. Instead it's just a weak story with the word Phoenix slapped on it. I've waited all these years to see Phoenix in live action with that majestic flaming bird imagery and have been repeatedly disappointed. So I'll just reread the comic or rewatch the cartoon. I'm old now and I'm done waiting for Hollywood (who never reads the source material) to get this right.
To be fair, we did get the majestic flaming bird imagery at the end of the Dark Phoenix. Marvel Studios is continuing the cinematic X-Men universe with the upcoming Deadpool/Wolverine movie. So we might see that Phoenix again.
X-men last stand definitely the weakest of the franchise they should have waited till Bryan Singer was available
Matthew Vaughn WAS hired to direct this!! And he chickened out three months before shooting so Brett Ratner was the best they could find on short notice (kind of like when a scrambling Marvel found the underwhelming Peyton Reed, under a rock somewhere, at the last moment to take on Ant-Man)
I think the biggest reason the story failed was because the run time was kind of short for the story and amount of new characters. X2 was 30 minutes longer than X3 was. With extra time they could have built the new characters because none of them really felt important besides beast. Angel, multiple man, juggernaut, Callisto and kid omega added nothing and felt generic and unimportant.
Anybody else spot Longshot? He pops in for a sec at the end. Him , Shatterstar, Forge in my top 5 without a doubt. Other than whatever they did to Shatterstar in Deadpool, I'm glad they haven't been butchered on the big screen.
The worst choice made, that even I someone who hasn't read the original story can recognize was the choice for Cyclops to die and Wolverine to kill Jean, what the actual heck was that? UH so bad but hey fun action!
I don’t think it was that bad, I actually love it! It was one my favorite from the series.
I just hope feige will make sinister the first big bad. He was teased a few times but nope. He could easily be the thanos for the xmen
For me I’d want the villains to be a decent version of the Brotherhood in the first MCU X-Men movie
Have them still be Magneto’s Brotherhood but save Magneto for a later film and have the team be led by a decent version of Mystique who is a real villain (and is clothed)
And have the team consist of Avalanche, Toad, Pyro and maybe even have Rogue be a member and have her be villain for most of the first movie and then she leaves the bad guys and becomes a member of the X-Men in a later movie
Also it would be cool if there was a way to bring back Aaron Taylor-Johnson as Quicksilver (but they won’t)
I think we definitely need a break from Magneto but even Mister Sinister is too big for a first movie
Or they should just have someone like Arcade or Juggernaut be the villain of the first movie
Hm. I didnt hate the movie. It was not perfect but i i had my fun with it.
Logan was too bleak for me. I didn't care for it at all, but I agree with you on first class. And the first 2 x-men movies were OK.
You didn't like X men 2????? Wtf indeed
Dude was smoking crack! X2 is one of the best Marvel Comics-based movies & one of the best superhero movies.
@Nick Young yeah I've never heard a fan say something as stupid as that. First is good don't get me wrong but x2 is leagues ahead on so many levels.
i've never seen anyone who said that they Hate X2
Ima fan of it tbh, just because it shows a lot of characters and beast puts in work that battle scenes was fire
Unpopular opinion:
I think Simon Kinberg did a better job as a director in "Dark Phoenix" than Brett Ratner in here
12:52- It's Tom now.
Actually for those few reasons you've listed in the very first minutes of the video... This might be my Favorite X-Men of the "old gen" actors/stuffs series. Yes it might not top the first... and 2nd was a lil bit too drama for me back than, and probably now. But I also like Gene and her being one of the focal points if not you know... the focal point of this one... well you get the point. I have lots of other stuffs today, IDK in what order to attempt to make the most sense. Yes btw First Class (the alternative timeline is actually better movie wise, but only timeless Logan is old gen representing.
Back than I might have been too fed up with single character focused movies (of other genres with other lead actors as characters) A movie where A or S tier main character is surrounded by equals or potential equals to the point they are normal "on screen" is more or less the idea of this movie in a way? I have actually also watched all the X-Men... like the Logan alone franchise... if you want Logan main... that is your thing. I don`t like cyclops much so him ending when he did... well he ended when he did. The End of Last Stand is tear breaking, admit it. I have given, due to some reasons, more than healthy amount of thoughts on what was depicted there and it was exact to a millisecond with "everything". Now the fact that >after< this movie stuffs branch out in awkward, non consistent to it ways... You know timeliness, public demands, stuffs... But this movie was intended as an end and an end it was.
Also if you say that a movie that had a fling in between Maize Williams and Anya Tylor Joy was anything less than one of the greatest... well you are than wrong :P. Make another one of that movie that is practically exactly the same... just because :P. Joke aside I do wanna see development of Any`s vorpal blade power that, suspiciously so, looks like Kassadin from League of Legends. Now Maize`s turn into wolf power might have been a bit underwhelming... but 2 When. I said 2 When... I get very confused about all those timeline stuffs and which movie was which, but the one where they send Future`s Logan`s mind back into his time relevant past (in before the super adaptive, mega OP sentinels became a thing) is >the best< I think is the one that had the everyone`s favorite... erm that wealthy family from GoT character... and no Not Cersies or her Brother... How dare I forget... Targarians? I must have not watched the newest GoTs intensely enough. I mean having 3 seconds worth of memory of what is being seeing on watch, does not exactly cut it, now does it.
Charles aged so much between 90s and 2000😂
... "Elliott Page" ?
I enjoyed that one…not ashamed to say it. More so than ‘First Class’.
Interestingly this made more money than Superman Returns too
I don’t get the hate for this movie - if you’re a fan of the comics I understand, but it balances a number of plot points fairly well.
JoBlo, can you do X Men first class soon, please 🙏🏼
It’s coming!
@JoBlo Originals Nice. thanks, mate.
I've always enjoyed your videos.
We gave The Last Stand a hard time but better than The MCU's Phase 4 and Antman 3
This is my favorite of all xmen movies.
This movie was pure hack by brett hack ratner
X2, DOFP and Logan are the only good ones. The rest are ok at best.
And that cartoon now become the best x men adaptation
I liked this one better than the newest version AND THATS saying something! lol
At least Simon Kinberg didn't try to replicate Bryan Singer, unlike Brett Ratner, who was just doing what he was paid to do without any objection
Are you seriously saying that the Phoenix story in this movie is a better representation of mental illness than the Dark Phoenix movie? Because every mental health expert will tell you that you're wrong.
@@LeonardoKlotz Read my comment above.
They tried to play and fit way too many narratives in a overblown plot. It should have played more into the Phoenix growth because they could have easily stretched this storyline out with the Phoenix, at least for two movies.
We got to see Wolverine’s rage in X2.
Dark Phoenix story is very long because before Dark Phoenix saga was Phoenix saga when Jean Grey and Phoenix comes Together and Save the Marvel universe to be Destroy.
I always cringed when Ellen page calls Juggernaut a dickhead. She played the role fine, just felt kinda funny on that line delivery
I didn't think it was to bad tbh
But yeh could have been better, days of future past was really good also