@@ryaldeveau207 front bipod, rear soft shooting bag. Use a level on the action, then match a level to that on the barrel. Simple, cheap, has never failed. Has worked for me for 40 years
@@ryaldeveau207If you tighten a scope mount on the rifle (without the upper ring) the surface facing up shuld be parallel to the "level" of the rifle. If you put a small level on that surface and it shows "level" the rifle should also be "level". I promise you get it "good enough" without that investment. If you mount several scopes every day there could be a reason to buy it, but for mounting own scopes it might be slightly overkill...
@@ryaldeveau207 any sort of vice to stablize your rifle. Level the rifle. Then level the optic. If you're doing this you should also be using an Anticant device. This part i generally do outside with a bipod and good bag : Level the rifle, setup a plumb line 25yds away, and make adjustments to your optic/reticle, then adjust your anticant to match. If someone can help you with making adjustments with the plumb line it gets even easier. But this is what $10? for a bubble level and string?
This sounds like a great way to add extra steps in the most expensive way possible. Wait we should re-pour the concrete in the shop before we level the table the vise is on.
Great video Gavin. While I don’t own these products, they look to be of high quality. I think one would need to be doing gunsmith work as a profession to justify the cost. The Rock Vise Precision Firearm Vise lists for $595.00 and the Precision Scope Leveling Mount lists for $325.00 which means one would be out $920.00 plus shipping. That is a bit much for many of us. As a comparison, the Tipton Ultra Gun Vise lists for $204.99 and the Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System (PRLS) lists for $64.99 which equates to $269.98, plus shipping. While I’d love to have the Arrow Products in my arsenal of tools, I’d personally have a very hard time justifying the cost.
$2000 isn't shit when you are using rifles that cost upwards of $15,000+ to get that perfect long-range shot. Hell, the scopes he probably uses are several thousand, if not over 10g.
@@johndoe-so2ef Yeah, this hobby is becoming a playground for the rich. Tech-Bros and Bitcoin Billionaires (or alternately the future generation of red-pilled "single dudes" in their 20's & 30's, many of whom are now being projected to stay single and never marry, and hence have more surplus cash on hand to spend on their hobbies). Particularly for the PRS, ELR, and big-game crowd. Married (or divorced!) blue collar Bob is getting left far behind in the toy department... Like everything else, stuff is getting marketed and sold for those who actually have any spare funds (and aren't just surviving these days), and priced accordingly in a much different reality than for the majority of us. Garmin Xero? Nah, more like an old Chrony (or reverse engineer your velocity using a ballistics app and "truing" your velocity based on observed longer range drops). Kestrel Elite? Not likely; more like looking up the local weather online and dropping some blades of grass to "read the wind". Nightforce, Zeiss, Swarovski, or Vortex Razor? Hard pass. Ammo prices and reloading components up average of around 50% vs what we were paying 5 years ago, while my pay has only gone up about 15%. Simply can't keep up, so now shooting much, much less. Starting to sell off the collection. Same with most of my old hobbies...woodworking, welding, auto repair. Simply getting too expensive for everything. Even food items are suffering the same fate. "Nicer" items, like desserts and ice cream, soda, chips, cuts of meat above "poor house" grade, etc, are now being priced for those rolling in cash or sitting on tons of house equity and with large stock market portfolios. Hell, now going mostly with chicken for protein just because its $1.50/lb cheaper than ground beef to save a few bucks a month. Solid cuts of read meat and fish (not canned) at $9-10/lb+ or even drive-thru food are becoming once or twice a month "treats". The multinational companies that now own the vast majority of our food chain are squeezing the living daylights out of us to goose their profits, and they just don't care, like most Wall Street co's. Middle class is shopping the same way those on EBT, Section 8, living in affordable housing projects used to shop just to survive. And the list goes on. Neat tools, sure some envy & FOMO, but reality is a b**ch.
It would have been nice to see how "level" the scope was mounted back on the rifle... No after footage.. Best way to level your optics, is while it's mounted on the rifle..
You can eliminate that tool and just level the base that is already on the rifle. If you use a bubble level to level the tool it is no different to just level the scope base and then align the cross hairs to the wall.
Let's not forget the mechanics inside the scope. The BEST way to level a scope is to rigidly hold the rifle/scope combo level and while using a plumb (or another verified perfectly vertical reference) dial the scopes elevation all the way up and down and make sure it travels perfectly vertical. You would be amazed at the number of scopes that do not have perfect alignment between etched reticle and mechanical tracking..........yeah those scopes too. Cheers.
taking it off the level and then putting it back on your gun seems like it would introduce variance in the level. I really dont understand this product and why its better than leveling it on the rifle itself
@@ryaldeveau207 go fack yourself troll , what I’m saying is badger ordinance , nightforce , Leupold , MDT and so on maybe slightly different from eachother and to the Rock vice pic rail .
@ryaldeveau207 Woah, buddy. If you understand machining, then you understand there are always tolerances +or- in all things. From tooling to fixtures to coatings and the materials of the base product itself. This is why it is always, yes always, best to set tolerances with the fewest number of variables as possible.
This is a lot of money for some thing that you can do just as well using the badger ordinance leveling stage. It is only $160 available for Midway USA. I’ve been using one for 10 years now and it does exactly the same thing except you don’t need a high dollar.
I see you're using a unique South African product, the Triggercam. I have one, too, and it is a great accessory when determining target shot placement. Will you review the Triggercam in a video?
I don't understand the extra step? Why not just level the reticle while on the rifle? Isn't that a more accurate method anyway? Eliminating any variance between the Rock level and the actual scope base itself.
@@ryaldeveau207 You're leveling the thing with a bubble. You can eyeball the same bubble mounted on a rifle. And since when does the rifle have to be perfect? It's irrelevant. What's important is that you have a level somewhere that is calibrated with your reticle.
Nice tools. I have a suggestion/ question. What do you think about using a laser leveler to line up your reticle . You could lock down the rifle and move the laser to perfectly put the two lines together😊
lasers aren't that accurate and they get knocked out of calibration all the time. Gravity always works the same with a plumb line. Check your laser first.
With the way you level the scope. How would you detect if the reticle is crooked relative to the turrets? Because if it is crooked, you will mix in wind when you only adjust the height and therefore miss because you think you didn't read the wind correctly.
Been looking for a good gun vise....this looks like it would fit the bill. I think the cost is prohibitive if you only have a few guns. If you shoot a lot and are constantly mounting scopes or working on rifles....the cost is negligible. Not 100% sure what to think about the scope leveling block.....will have to give it some thought. I currently use the EXD vertical reticle instrument to level my scopes and align them with the bore. The Arrow level appears to only level the scope, but may not guarantee bore alignment. Regardless....this is a great video and great topic as there are many though processes on best way to level a scope.
This seems unnecessary. I've mounted scopes by aligning the reticle with the bore centerline. Guarantees that elevation adjustments don't affect windage. This is especially important if the rail is slightly offset for some reason.
Why don’t they just make an arca to arca adapter with micro adjust to go between the rifle and the vice? Seems silly to go back and forth. You just need a rock solid mount for the rifle with micro adjust. Ring spacing needs to be exact for recoil also. Seating both rings all the way forward. I just don’t like the transfer from one pic rail to another. For all the money spent it seems like you could have the same result but better process.
Dude, you did it so bad I dont even know where to start the list xD 1. Why you didnt used turrets, to get the crosshair perfectly center on the wall reticle? Im 100% sure the gaps between croshair horizontal line and wall refference were not equally spaced. Aligning those two would be the key. 2. Where is bubble level attached to scope? once your scope is aligned with thing on the wall, you should set bubble level on the scop to corespond!. This way even if the rifle rail/mount is off, you would always have crosshair-bubble level with no cant. Im not super long range expert, but Im accurate to 700m with 22lr (56,5 mrad elevation, 2m/s wind gives ~6mrad adjustment) so I think My scope alignement is fine.....
Perhaps someday if I start laying golden eggs. A white wall, a small bubble level attached to a small steel ruler, along with a line marked using a plumb bob works just fine at a fraction of the cost. Just another BS waste of money to me. Great Video though,
😂 at you in poor. When you are dropping $10-20 grand on custom precision rifles, the $2000 for this setup isn't shit. And that's 10 to 20 grand for just the rifle, not counting the $5000-15000 optics.
Even if 2 grand is cheap to you, there is still such a thing of pissing $ to the wind. Some people don't want to hand their $ to other's who see them coming a mile away. To each is own, but just cause people don't see the value in this doesn't necessarily make them a "poor".
This is a question not a comment I am currently building an extension and it comes with a basement that is going to be my workshop I reload small amounts of rifle stuff but I want to get into pistol reloading and is my question should I go for the Frankford Arsenal MX 10 or the Dillon 750? And the end of the day the options that I have considered are within $300 but which one should I go for? Regards George
So you have a thick leveled lines on the wall (that can give you 1 degree inaccuracy EASY) but you are not even putting the reticle on them and trusting you eye to be leveled??? Oooo kkkkkk
I gotta say - what a joke of a tool. They went through great lengths to solve a problem that does exist. Put a digital scale on your rifle and match whatever degree(s) the digital level displays on the scope. Come one Gavin and team ... You're better than this.
How did I make it to age 75 by just using my eyes and common sense for attaching and adjusting scopes to my guns? There's too much new-age gun-fuss now.
Man you are like Batman . You have the most Badass Tools
So basically this channel is one giant paid advertisement
Its always been an add channel combined with gunsmithing
Yep but I had no idea this product existed before it was on here.
Yes. It’s the only way you can get a product reviewed by him.
He's a shill. The gun industry equivalent of unbox therapy. Everything he reviews is "great"
He has bills to pay, just like the rest of us.
$325 for something that a bubble level and a weighted string can do is nuts.
How do you precisely get your rifle leveled perfectly?
@@ryaldeveau207 front bipod, rear soft shooting bag. Use a level on the action, then match a level to that on the barrel. Simple, cheap, has never failed. Has worked for me for 40 years
I agree. Don’t forget a flashlight if you feel so inclined.
@@ryaldeveau207If you tighten a scope mount on the rifle (without the upper ring) the surface facing up shuld be parallel to the "level" of the rifle. If you put a small level on that surface and it shows "level" the rifle should also be "level".
I promise you get it "good enough" without that investment. If you mount several scopes every day there could be a reason to buy it, but for mounting own scopes it might be slightly overkill...
@@ryaldeveau207 any sort of vice to stablize your rifle. Level the rifle. Then level the optic. If you're doing this you should also be using an Anticant device. This part i generally do outside with a bipod and good bag : Level the rifle, setup a plumb line 25yds away, and make adjustments to your optic/reticle, then adjust your anticant to match. If someone can help you with making adjustments with the plumb line it gets even easier. But this is what $10? for a bubble level and string?
This sounds like a great way to add extra steps in the most expensive way possible. Wait we should re-pour the concrete in the shop before we level the table the vise is on.
Great video Gavin. While I don’t own these products, they look to be of high quality. I think one would need to be doing gunsmith work as a profession to justify the cost. The Rock Vise Precision Firearm Vise lists for $595.00 and the Precision Scope Leveling Mount lists for $325.00 which means one would be out $920.00 plus shipping. That is a bit much for many of us. As a comparison, the Tipton Ultra Gun Vise lists for $204.99 and the Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System (PRLS) lists for $64.99 which equates to $269.98, plus shipping. While I’d love to have the Arrow Products in my arsenal of tools, I’d personally have a very hard time justifying the cost.
Wrong hobby to be bitching about cost, guy. 🤷♂️
$2000 isn't shit when you are using rifles that cost upwards of $15,000+ to get that perfect long-range shot. Hell, the scopes he probably uses are several thousand, if not over 10g.
All you need is a bubble level and a plumb bob. Wheeler makes a good level kit for $50.
Looks like a solid tool, just can’t justify the price when I only mount a scope rarely.
Why can't you just mount the gun in vice, put the scope on and level it the same way?
Use a plumb line to set your reticle.
Because you have way too much money, and need to waste it.
@@johndoe-so2ef Yeah, this hobby is becoming a playground for the rich. Tech-Bros and Bitcoin Billionaires (or alternately the future generation of red-pilled "single dudes" in their 20's & 30's, many of whom are now being projected to stay single and never marry, and hence have more surplus cash on hand to spend on their hobbies). Particularly for the PRS, ELR, and big-game crowd. Married (or divorced!) blue collar Bob is getting left far behind in the toy department... Like everything else, stuff is getting marketed and sold for those who actually have any spare funds (and aren't just surviving these days), and priced accordingly in a much different reality than for the majority of us. Garmin Xero? Nah, more like an old Chrony (or reverse engineer your velocity using a ballistics app and "truing" your velocity based on observed longer range drops). Kestrel Elite? Not likely; more like looking up the local weather online and dropping some blades of grass to "read the wind". Nightforce, Zeiss, Swarovski, or Vortex Razor? Hard pass. Ammo prices and reloading components up average of around 50% vs what we were paying 5 years ago, while my pay has only gone up about 15%. Simply can't keep up, so now shooting much, much less. Starting to sell off the collection. Same with most of my old hobbies...woodworking, welding, auto repair. Simply getting too expensive for everything. Even food items are suffering the same fate. "Nicer" items, like desserts and ice cream, soda, chips, cuts of meat above "poor house" grade, etc, are now being priced for those rolling in cash or sitting on tons of house equity and with large stock market portfolios. Hell, now going mostly with chicken for protein just because its $1.50/lb cheaper than ground beef to save a few bucks a month. Solid cuts of read meat and fish (not canned) at $9-10/lb+ or even drive-thru food are becoming once or twice a month "treats". The multinational companies that now own the vast majority of our food chain are squeezing the living daylights out of us to goose their profits, and they just don't care, like most Wall Street co's. Middle class is shopping the same way those on EBT, Section 8, living in affordable housing projects used to shop just to survive. And the list goes on. Neat tools, sure some envy & FOMO, but reality is a b**ch.
wouldnt have been an advertisement that way
I think it’s wasted money for a simple process
This is getting a bit outta hand
It would have been nice to see how "level" the scope was mounted back on the rifle... No after footage.. Best way to level your optics, is while it's mounted on the rifle..
You can eliminate that tool and just level the base that is already on the rifle. If you use a bubble level to level the tool it is no different to just level the scope base and then align the cross hairs to the wall.
I use that mount nearly every week, when i mount scopes to my customers, True PRO product. And i had my "fingers" on the birth of that mount😎👌🏻
Let's not forget the mechanics inside the scope. The BEST way to level a scope is to rigidly hold the rifle/scope combo level and while using a plumb (or another verified perfectly vertical reference) dial the scopes elevation all the way up and down and make sure it travels perfectly vertical. You would be amazed at the number of scopes that do not have perfect alignment between etched reticle and mechanical tracking..........yeah those scopes too. Cheers.
Literally do the same thing with two levels
Nice, I have a badger dead level, works similarly
Rock Vise 💯 ! If the level is as good as the vise it’s going to be outstanding. Great to see a review of it out in the wild!
taking it off the level and then putting it back on your gun seems like it would introduce variance in the level. I really dont understand this product and why its better than leveling it on the rifle itself
agreed
Spuhr mounts have leveling built in... I still want to get that vise though. looks handy.
What is the pic rail of the rifle if slightly different from the pic rail of the rock vice ?
Then your poor and putting cheap shit on your rifle. This setup is for custom precision rifles. Not your dads 30-06 hunting rifle.
@@ryaldeveau207 go fack yourself troll , what I’m saying is badger ordinance , nightforce , Leupold , MDT and so on maybe slightly different from eachother and to the Rock vice pic rail .
@ryaldeveau207 Woah, buddy. If you understand machining, then you understand there are always tolerances +or- in all things. From tooling to fixtures to coatings and the materials of the base product itself.
This is why it is always, yes always, best to set tolerances with the fewest number of variables as possible.
This is a lot of money for some thing that you can do just as well using the badger ordinance leveling stage. It is only $160 available for Midway USA. I’ve been using one for 10 years now and it does exactly the same thing except you don’t need a high dollar.
This.
I see you're using a unique South African product, the Triggercam. I have one, too, and it is a great accessory when determining target shot placement. Will you review the Triggercam in a video?
I like my Level right pro. No special vise or wall mounted targets needed with same outcome at a fraction of the cost.
Looks nifty. That location must be a PITA to maintain the access in winter.
I don't understand the extra step? Why not just level the reticle while on the rifle? Isn't that a more accurate method anyway? Eliminating any variance between the Rock level and the actual scope base itself.
No, because it is not as easy as you think to get the rifle perfectly level.
@ryaldeveau207 It's exactly as easy as I might think. I do it all the time.
@@ryaldeveau207 You're leveling the thing with a bubble. You can eyeball the same bubble mounted on a rifle. And since when does the rifle have to be perfect? It's irrelevant. What's important is that you have a level somewhere that is calibrated with your reticle.
Just use feeler gauges to get bottom of scope level on top of rail.
If you use a Spuhr-mount, leveling takes exactly 3 seconds
How far away is the reticle drawing on the wall from the scope ?
Nice tools. I have a suggestion/ question. What do you think about using a laser leveler to line up your reticle . You could lock down the rifle and move the laser to perfectly put the two lines together😊
lasers aren't that accurate and they get knocked out of calibration all the time. Gravity always works the same with a plumb line. Check your laser first.
Interesting, I called Leupold for scope torque settings. They don’t give me a number, rather referred me to mounting manufacturer.
With the way you level the scope.
How would you detect if the reticle is crooked relative to the turrets?
Because if it is crooked, you will mix in wind when you only adjust the height and therefore miss because you think you didn't read the wind correctly.
Until the next best things comes out and it's sent to you FREEEEE
Been looking for a good gun vise....this looks like it would fit the bill. I think the cost is prohibitive if you only have a few guns. If you shoot a lot and are constantly mounting scopes or working on rifles....the cost is negligible. Not 100% sure what to think about the scope leveling block.....will have to give it some thought. I currently use the EXD vertical reticle instrument to level my scopes and align them with the bore. The Arrow level appears to only level the scope, but may not guarantee bore alignment.
Regardless....this is a great video and great topic as there are many though processes on best way to level a scope.
works great till you take delivery of a new Winchester with the rail drilled off center.. 😜
Hey Gavin, I know you’ve also used the Final Scope Level from Short Action Customs. Would you say the Arrow Products is superior? And why?
This seems unnecessary. I've mounted scopes by aligning the reticle with the bore centerline. Guarantees that elevation adjustments don't affect windage. This is especially important if the rail is slightly offset for some reason.
Observation, I notice you mount rings with picatinny rail nut (or screws) tightening on the receiver’s ejection port (bolt) side. Reason? Thanks.
Why don’t they just make an arca to arca adapter with micro adjust to go between the rifle and the vice? Seems silly to go back and forth. You just need a rock solid mount for the rifle with micro adjust.
Ring spacing needs to be exact for recoil also. Seating both rings all the way forward. I just don’t like the transfer from one pic rail to another. For all the money spent it seems like you could have the same result but better process.
I guessing this will not work for Dual Dovetail bases and rings.
Expensive solution to an occasional task in my case - perhaps 5 or 6 times per year. Great product though.
Dude, you did it so bad I dont even know where to start the list xD
1. Why you didnt used turrets, to get the crosshair perfectly center on the wall reticle? Im 100% sure the gaps between croshair horizontal line and wall refference were not equally spaced. Aligning those two would be the key.
2. Where is bubble level attached to scope? once your scope is aligned with thing on the wall, you should set bubble level on the scop to corespond!.
This way even if the rifle rail/mount is off, you would always have crosshair-bubble level with no cant.
Im not super long range expert, but Im accurate to 700m with 22lr (56,5 mrad elevation, 2m/s wind gives ~6mrad adjustment) so I think My scope alignement is fine.....
Everything looks and performs great. I just don't see the value there. So many proven ways that are much less expensive.
Off topic question: Does the Triggercam hdmi port allow a live feed out or just allow watching of recorded video?
It will allow for Live feed. I use it all the time that way when I am shooting off the Bench on a portable monitor.
@@damingrail3655 Thanks.
Perhaps someday if I start laying golden eggs. A white wall, a small bubble level attached to a small steel ruler, along with a line marked using a plumb bob works just fine at a fraction of the cost. Just another BS waste of money to me. Great Video though,
Not worth it.
I always lap my rings no matter what brand rings they are
$325 to mount a scope? LMAO! Plus the vise? LMAO again!
😂 at you in poor. When you are dropping $10-20 grand on custom precision rifles, the $2000 for this setup isn't shit. And that's 10 to 20 grand for just the rifle, not counting the $5000-15000 optics.
@ sticks and stones….. and definitely not poor.
Even if 2 grand is cheap to you, there is still such a thing of pissing $ to the wind. Some people don't want to hand their $ to other's who see them coming a mile away. To each is own, but just cause people don't see the value in this doesn't necessarily make them a "poor".
Hahaha seriously, I guess I'm poor. But, money doesn't put you in the x ring. So guess we're 👍
well if Gavin is willing to spend $600 on a tool to prime cases why not spend $920 on a glorified plum bob?
Nice tool if you mount enough scopes to justify the cost. Definitely a nicety and not a necessity.
At this point can someone explain why Scopes just can't have squared tube?
Its harder to produce square percision glass than round. Also several additional steps.
It’s really good
I don't think so your level is perfect
They are very nice, but too much for us poor retired people.
Great idea, horrible price.
This is a question not a comment I am currently building an extension and it comes with a basement that is going to be my workshop
I reload small amounts of rifle stuff but I want to get into pistol reloading and is my question should I go for the Frankford Arsenal MX 10 or the Dillon 750? And the end of the day the options that I have considered are within $300 but which one should I go for?
Regards
George
Lol
So you have a thick leveled lines on the wall (that can give you 1 degree inaccuracy EASY) but you are not even putting the reticle on them and trusting you eye to be leveled??? Oooo kkkkkk
Sub $1000 set up ?😢
Nope
The most expensive way to level your scope.
BUUUUUUUUUUUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYIIIIIIIIINGGGGGGGG THIS
The redundancy is unbelievable.
You make some great videos,but sorry no way you need anything like that to level a scope and sure as heck not for 325 dollars
I gotta say - what a joke of a tool. They went through great lengths to solve a problem that does exist. Put a digital scale on your rifle and match whatever degree(s) the digital level displays on the scope. Come one Gavin and team ... You're better than this.
I guess you is scre**d without a pic rail.
A scope doesn’t need to be level though. There are advantages to canting the scope.
You just need a torque wrench and common sense. The rest is BS
How did I make it to age 75 by just using my eyes and common sense for attaching and adjusting scopes to my guns? There's too much new-age gun-fuss now.
way too much money.....i have the badger ordnance scope leveler and its a must have.
Gran estupidez !!! Aparato nada funcional y complica las cosas de un buen armero