Poor Robert Holdstock, nobody remembers him anymore. He was an award winning science fiction/fantasy author back in the 80's and 90's. He wrote the magnificent "Mythago Wood" in 1984, and its sequel "Lavondyss" four years later. Lavondyss is a haunting novel that leans a lot on the legend of the Green Knight, and of course on the myth of the Green Man. I highly recommend you to read these books if you haven't already done so. Christmas greetings from Finland! Hyvää joulua!
Holdstock's Ryhope Wood series, of which "Mythago Wood" and "Lavondyss" are the first two parts, was a masterpiece. "Lavondyss" in particular can be difficult for readers to get into, but once you do it's a highly rewarding read, as are the other novels in the series. Reading "Lvondyss" was in fact the first time I had heard of the story of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight".
I tried reading Mythago wood, instantly lost interest. The prose is awful. The kind of prose in which, what should be said in 1 sentence is done in 3 sentences. Also pretty sure it's in first person, so instead of being able to focus on what's going on you're just hearing the clueless thoughts of the author. You have to be very concise and intelligent if you're going to write in first person and mix it up with a lot of descriptive sentences.
A lot of King Arthur stories revolve around Christmas and Easter. It was a Christmas tournament when Arthur drew the sword from the stone. I love Tolkien's take on this one! Merry Christmas, Jess! May Yule be as festive as it was at Beorn's house!
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Oh this was wonderful! Please do more of these cozy fireside readings! Just an interesting note, you mentioned “Christian Morality” and Christian sexual morality and chastity, well these morals are actually 100% Pagan morals that Christianity adopted, just as the tale of the Green Knight was originally a Pagan tale that Christianity adopted. There are very many historial quotes about very high standards of Pagan chastity, but here are just a few: “From childhood they practice strengthening the body through exercises. The man who remains chaste for the longest time receives the highest praise from his people, since they believe that abstaining from sexual activity before marriage increases the physical strength and moral stature of men.” - Julius Caesar on the customs of the Northern Pagans in his “Gallic Wars” “The marriage code is strict and honorable among them and no virtue of their morality deserves higher praise than this. The men are satisfied with only one wife. This is how they live, surrounded by virtue and Chastity. They remain uncorrupted by seductions and temptations. Secret adulterous affairs are unknown among both men and women. Adultery is extremely rare, especially considering the size of their population.“ - Roman historian Tacitus on the customs of the Northern Pagans It is fascinating how old these customs, values & virtues are, long older than we usually assume!!
Jess, Now is the time you take the dive and try and record a full audiobook reading of the Trilogy . Never Before has the world had a female version and hearing these shorter readings makes me think how amazing that would be. Maybe do a video about "my favorite passages from the books read out loud" type deal and perhaps ask your community to help fund the project. OR just keep on keeping on and do some more cool short story essay dives like this one here.
Apparently there was a Christmas tradition in the late Victorian period of telling scary stories at Christmas. The knight’s be heading qualifies, so I waited until Christmas evening day to watch the video. An enjoyable read Thank you
Hi, I come to GATGK from a Welsh perspective and the holders of the original tale. I grew up about 20 minutes from the location of the green hall (the Wirral Forest), have been an Arthurian enthusiast since i was told tales by my grandmother as a child in North Wales, and publish a gaming magazine based around the Arthurian Cycle. Simon Armitage, the poet, writes that the author was a monk writing in a Lancastrian dialect of Middle English but wrote of an area he knew and left unnamed, but deemed to be the Wyrel. With respect, the pronunciation is G'wayne (in English) or G'-wine (in modern Welsh). We know this because of his Welsh name mentioned with Arthur's real name on Eliseg's Pillar. That name being a subversion of Owain (O-wine) or Gwalchmai in Welsh [probably]. Obviously, the original tale featured Cernnunos or the Green Man heavily, and the question of Gawain's chastity was likely a Norman French invention. I used to spend hours every weekend in Mold library reading all the books and texts on 'Arthur', Emrys, Llud, Gwynhyfar, Cei, Peredur, and his nephew and heir apparent, Gawain. As you mentioned, citing Troy or Brutus is where medieval British scribes said we came from as a nation but the 3 tests of Gawain betrays its Greek roots. One major stone in the shoe for modern Arthurian scolars is that Eliseg's Pillar gave us the lineage of Cunedda who came from Lanarkshire on the bidding of Gwerthyrn (Vortigern) to north Wales to defend against the Irish. One of his descendants was Owain Ddantgwyn, 'White Tooth', who became warlord of Powys upon Vortigern's death. Being a Philipsian, i believe Arthur's name is derived from his habit of wearing a bear pelt in the winter. At his Summer court in Viroconium his Brythonic subjects would call him the 'bear of Britain' (Arth ap Prydein) and in Chester (his winter court Caer Leon) his Romanised subjects called him Ursus Britannicus or British Bear. Arth-Ursus. Really, i love the literature but sifting through the French and Jersais stuff to get through to the original Brythonic is exhausting. Im learning so much by watching your channel, which i discovered today. Thank you!
I forgot to mention, the stone in the shoe is that the Anglicising of Owain, Gawain, is the same name as 'Arthur'. Now, it's of course possible that the Bear of Britain and the dux bellorum of Mathrafal/Powys have the same name but could it also be possible that Arthur and Gawain are the same person but the protagonist has been split by time?
As an addict of Arthurian Literature, I have learned there are many pronunciations and spellings of names in the various tales. Sir Gawain is my personal favorite of Arthur’s knights and I love the tale of the Green Knight. I’ve read a number of those tales you spoke about. One of my high school English teachers turned me onto Arthurian Literature decades ago and I now have a bookcase devoted to various tales from several points of view. I added Tolkien’s book three years ago. Thank you for reading and sharing. Merry Christmas Jess!
I never realized Tolkien had all this content outside the LOTR saga, by which I just finished. So, thanks for introducing me to it. Apparently, the journey has just begun.
@@francisjudge I recommend watching "Radical Translations: Maria Dahvana Headley, Emily Wilson, and Madeline Miller" where they discuss exactly that and Headley talks about the various translations of Beowulf including Tolkien's.
The knights in atrhurian legends always feel so naive that it's hard not to try them, if they are as noble as they think of themselves. I understand a perspective of Morgan and Green Knight, it had to be lots of fun watching Gawain trying to fulfill the expectations laid on him by court, religion and himself. I knew this story as a child. I also watched the movie and I think it was marvelous, even though it was a parallel for something different than the original. Thank you for your work, your videos are always a nice part of my week.
Fun Fact: The feast on Christmas Eve is just a bunch of kinds of fish, because it was Christmas Eve, and the religious practice was to eat no red meat/poultry for all of Advent until Christmas Day. Five wounds of Christ are nail holes in each foot and hand, and a hole in his side where the centurion poked him with his spear. On a personal note: I think Gawain had two "sins" -- lying to Bertelak about the sash, and perjuring himself at confession.
Two for flinching. ;) My first exposure to the story was the film Sword of the Valiant with Sean Connery. While it's a cheesy 80's film, and the effects don't hold up, Sean Connery elevates the whole thing. It's a really haunting and evocative story, full of meaning. What strikes me most is the passage to adulthood and maturity. Merry Christmas to you Jess and your friends and family.
That was my recollection too. I recall reading the tale of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight as a teenager, and when I saw that film I immediately recognized it although I agree with you it was pretty cheesy. I am now having to look for the green night so I can watch it.
Forgive me for this correction, but it got me to thinking. The Five Wounds of Christ are literal: two hands, two feet, and the spear in His side. The image of the Crown of Thorns was a much later set of prayers associated with the Rosary prayers, which after the time of the Albigensians often replaced the saying of the 150 Psalms in the Psalter; the Rosary prayers prompted by the Dominican Order. Anyway, I was thinking about the 5 Wounds being equal except for the last Wound, the spear in the side, which was so extreme. And in presentation of ideas, Anglo Saxons would not say "if ... then" but "tha ... tha," not making use of time. "The higher they stand, the harder they fall." Many of the rules and questions of the Green Knight are like that: a unity between subject and object, not a more Latin "if... then" argument about time. Sir Gawain is only a little concerned about death. So the Five Virtues are shown as continuously connected. One more note: Greek (Byzantine) musical theory approximates the musical scale as 72 steps called moria, and their symbol for music therefore is the five-pointed star. This has nothing to do with anything pagan; the books about it are in Greek Seminaries (such as Holy Cross in Brookline MA, authored by Savas). Greeks just view music that way, and as something continuous. It does have a Christmas vibe, like Dickens's Christmas Carol, because it questions all the attitudes of the church, and ultimately, virtue saves his life. It is honest virtue though, and not a sort of political posturing. Merry Christmas to all!
This is my first time hearing this story and it was delightful. I am a huge fan of Tolkien and the medieval time period. An amazing way to relax after being overwhelmed. Building Legos and listening to the story. I did not guess that the Lord was also the Green Knight, but now that it is said I do see the tests more clearly. Thank you, Jess!
The 5 stigmata Jess are the Crown of thorns, the two wrists, the side and the two feet count as one since a single nail was used. Depending on who is telling it Eastern or Western.
What a nice presentation of this masterful treatment of the classic tale! It is very much appreciated, and I will surely revisit your telling. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and New Year.
I'm so glad I found your channel. You are an excellent story teller. I am reminiscent of the story tellers who came to my elementary school to show us new books and acted out the stories in ways that engaged our young minds and enthralled us to pick up books and read for ourselves. Keep up the good work, we are most appreciative.
Many years ago, when I was active in the Society For Creative Anachronism, 3 ladies at a 12th Night celebration trapped me into being unchivalrous, then called a Court of Chivalry at night & charged me with ungentle behavior. The next weekend at another nearby event, I showed up in sackcloth, with a placard proclaiming my dishonor, & leaflets declaring I would neither sing, dance, nor feast at table until the ladies' hearts were softened & the dishonor was removed. All the other attendees scorned the ladies for their cruelty until they were forced to make a public apology.
This was my first exposure to this story, and I enjoyed it immensely. Thank you for presenting it so thoughtfully. Since you asked, I will say that I was not surprised to learn that Lord Bertilak was the Green Knight. :) Thanks again for another great video! Discovering your channel was one of the few good things that happened to me in 2023, and I look forward to more of your content!
I think the first time I heard the story of Gawain and the Green Knight was when it was re-told by Dael Kingsmill. The second time was by Overly Sarcastic Productions. The third time was when I watched the movie. But this is the first time I hear the original text (well, a translation of it, but close enough).
The movie The Green Knight had the actor (Joel Edgerton) who played Gawain in the 2004 King Arthur. He played the lord that let Gawain stay at his manor. I just thought it was neat.
The five wounds are the nail holes in each hand and foot and the spear wound in the side. I always used to wonder about the crown of thorns as a kid too, but apparently that, like the lashes on the back aren’t counted.
I first came across this when I studied Middle English literature in my second year at university (1981). I still have the book with that and "Pearl" and other poems. Rime was also used in traditional Irish poetry, which had complicated rules about rhyme and alliteration. French tends to use a mix of rhyme and particularly syllable count in poetry because it doesn't have a heavy stress accent. The theme of the eldritch figure who issues a beheading challenge to the warriors in the hall is even older. I think the stigmata would be hands and feet (all pierced by nails) and one in the side (pierced by a spear), but I could be mistaken.
I took a literature course in university as one of my electives, and we covered this story. At this time, I had too much anxiety to speak up, but the professor was asking students to throw out some thoughts they had about the story, about interesting subtext, etc... I got too nervous to speak up, so after the class was over, I went to the professor... I pointed out that the only way any character could live up to the high standards of the Green Knight, the high standards of chivalry, was to be a supernatural being. The Green Knight didn't have to feel fear of death or worry about consequences, he can just reattach his head and go about his life, but for a regular human to face all that took a tremendous amount of courage and acceptance of the death to come... Gawain, as flawed a human as he is, still rose to the moment, however imperfectly. The professor chastised me a little for not bringing that up during the class, it was a great point, he said, and one he himself hadn't thought of or vocalized (he didn't do it meanly, he meant it as encouragement to speak up in the future, it was more of a "I wish you had said that!" more than anything else) I've never forgotten that, or this story, because of that experience, and now I have an additional reason to forever remember it: The reminder that even the nost virtuous and brave human will still make mistakes, but can still raise to the occasion, make amends, and make things right... It's the choices we make at the end of the day that matter, and even if you falter, you can do the right thing in the end. At least... These are the things I took away from it. I like this story. I did not like the film adaptation I saw of it recently, I understood they were trying to subvert expectations, but it felt like it ruined it instead. Anyway, thanks for coming to my TedTalk, I'll be going back into my cave of irrelevance now 😅
Firstly, my thanks for your reading of this tale. If a vital story tellers gift is that your listener stays with you until the end, then you have that gift. Although I have long been aware of the poem I had not read it until this last year. I read reviews of the movie retelling and made a bargain with an old friend that we would both see the film and then meet up in some hills on the border between England and Wales and talk about it while we walked. Unfortunately, this has not yet happened, and so I also read Simon Armitage's excellent modern translation. My wife has now given me his translation of Pearl for Christmas, and I have the pleasure of reading it to look forward to. It is a powerful story and one that I am wonder glade to have read. My hope is that every man would be humbled by hearing the story or reading it. We should all wear a green girdle about our necks. I wonder if would have been able to have resisted the beautiful lady. I fear that I would not. And I would definitely have taken the girdle to protect my own life. Having said that I do feel that the gentle and chivalrous games that men and women played with one another represent one of the best, and most delightful expressions of the relationship between men and women that I can think of. I really don't think that we have progressed since that time although a dear friend in Germany, a high school teacher, tells me that she has always tried to teach the boys in her classes how to be charming in their treatment of girls and women.
I think the five wounds of Christ are the two on the hands (the stigmata), the one in the side (where water and blood came out) and two on the feet or ankles, where a single spike or nail would have held both feet in place.
I just came from seeing the movie this weekend, and I had to go and find Tolkien’s translation, because I figured he would never adapt a story that was as brutal and gross as the movie was. And I was right. His version, as I expected, was much more beautiful and meaningful. Thank you for sharing it. I don’t hate the movie, but I wish I had not experienced the story first in that format. 😂
1:17:30 -- RE: The Law of Chivalry; 2 side points which I can't ignore from the story. First is that Gawain is a guest in the household of the unknown lord; and second, that prisoners of war (or circumstance) were often ransomed. See also: C.S. Lewis' "Space" Trilogy with a main character called Ransom, a philologist.
Just fyi: the 5 Wounds of Christ are the ones that He received on the Cross: 1 in each hand, 1 in each foot, & the lance that pierced His side. I think it’s so interesting how the story explores the difference between chivalry and morality and shows that they don’t always equal each other (what is valued as social convention doesn’t always line up with what’s actually right).
It would have helped to have watched your video before seeing the recent movie version. It was rather confusing, but you have helped me understand it a lot better.
Only experience was the movie that you mentioned, which i liked more than my wife did, but it was still pretty... Edgy lol Don't think the movie pulled the identity of the knight at all, and gawain was quite opposite in morality. I liked this read a lot more
This was a great listen for my holiday traveling tonight. Almost the exact length of my drive to go see some family. The extended reads are really enjoyable!
i love that your doin this, and yes i made it through the whole thing, i read alot of tolkiens stuff when i was in my teens but that was like 25 years ago. Thank you for getting me some of the works i missed
I first heard about Gawain and the Green Knight in an English college class. Then I realized that I had Tolkien’s translation in a box set of Tolkien books I got for Christmas a few years back. It was an interesting story. Definitely a more complex medieval tale, as far as the morals and messaging goes. Usually medieval fairy tales (especially Brothers Grimm) tend to be more straightforward when it comes to the message/moral. At least that’s what I remember from reading those way back when.
Fun fact, Reynard became so popular in France, "renard" is now the french word for fox, instead og "goupil" which was the old frenhc word for it. Fox however come from proto-germanic fuhsaz ;)
Wonderfully done! I'm sure you're aware the story itself is much older. For example there is a similar story with Cuchullain in Gawains place. Instead of the green knight it is a giant who turns out to be Cu Roi.
Merry Christmas! Thanks for reading us the story, I enjoyed it. I heard about it in one or the other form during my childhood, but never from start to finish.
Ah yes, the Green Knight! My favourite work by Tolkien outside of his own legendarium. It is a rare occurence when a language scholar is also a true artist and poet. We are very lucky the Professor was both.
Thanks for making this video, it was an enjoyable, relaxing and thought provoking listen! :) As well as the ties to nature you point out, I feel like the Green Knight represents ancestry and the idea of a deep, (and recently rediscovered, thanks to Greek scholars migrating from Byzantium to Italy in the late 1400's) forgotten past, a sort of judgment of the ages. The 1500's in Britain was a time when people were taking an academic interest in hillforts, Roman remains and ancient monuments, and were no doubt delving in to round barrows and finding large numbers of bronze socketed axes. They had a somewhat confused idea of the chronology of cultures and sites, and tried to link what they could to classical writings. it is likely that the Neolithic Longbarrows would have been lumped in with the far more numerous Bronze Age Round Barrows and Bowl Barrows etc., and so the idea of barrow burials and bronze weapons/tools would go hand in hand (and would probably have been attributed to Druids, Romans or Celts, incorrectly). As you were reading, it struck me that this poem that is so old to us, may have been seen to be promoting some pretty radical ideas in the Christin 1500's, despite the Christian morality ensconced in it!
There is a delightful novel adaptation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by Gerald Morris by the title "The Squire, His Knight, and His Lady", 2nd of a 10-book series of Arthurian retellings. It is well worth anyone's time, assuming they have a fondness for Arthurian tales, absurd situations, and acerbic banter. Having been reminded of them, I have some re-reading to do - and I'll certainly look up Tolkien's version of the poem again as well!
I first came across the Tale of the Green Kight when I was 14. It was a german translation. It hit real Nostalgia to hear this Tale again, now 16 Years later. Also, it's interessting to listen to this in English - the original language of this story.
RE: Gs and Ws being interchangeable; It strikes me that some modern English dialects, developed long after Shakespearean influence, will happily exchange the G sound for a V sound, which is practically "next door" with W and the W is *often* the V sound, too. Similarly, F and V might get exchanged.
Merry Christmas, Jess! I hope you have a wonderful holiday. A whole video dedicated to Tolkien's translation work and the overall art of translations could be really cool, and for pointers/ideas I recommend watching "Radical Translations: Maria Dahvana Headley, Emily Wilson, and Madeline Miller" where they discuss exactly that and Headley talks about the various translations of Beowulf including Tolkien's. Also, you might take interest in the video "Legends Summarized: King Arthur" by Overly Sarcastic Productions as well as the comic book series Once & Future by Kieron Gillen and Dan Mora because both place a great deal of emphasis on the ways in which the Arthurian mythos has evolved as a result of the differing cultures (Britain and France) and societal values of whatever era certain iterations were written in.
Morgan le Fey isn't just a sorceress in King Arthur's Court, she is Gawain's aunt, sister to Morgause, Gawain's mother, and, in fact, sister to King Arthur, which is why Gawain is known as the King's sister-son.
Really good video. I thoroughly enjoyed it. As far as the sin gawain committed by agreeing to the terms of the game and then breaking one could interpret it as lying. He wasn’t honest though it is understandable why he did what he did. The story is definitely an interesting study on morality and what causes us to make the choices we do.
I think the first translation I heard was the W. S. Merwin (also a great translation imo). I somehow had not known that Tolkien translated this story 😅 Happy new year!!
The five wounds of Christ are hands and feet (4) from being pierced by nails and Christ’s side (1) where the centurion thrust his spear/lance into Christ to ensure he was dead.
You’ve done a video on Frankenstein. I’ve thought you would do an excellent job with Dr Jykell and Mr Hyde. I’ve heard different theories on his potion. When I suggested, during a lunch break, that the potion was distilled alcohol two coworkers strongly disagreed, but the two borderline alcoholics tentatively agreed with my theory.
Y'know...I grew up with it, but I don't remember it being in verse. I think it might have been the Mary Pope Osborne version, but I don't remember if she did a 1:1 version of this with the Magic Treehouse. Either way, I do remember reading the story growing up.
This was excellent, thanks for making this - everything about it was perfect! I would like to make a humble request for a reading of Tolkien's The Fall of Arthur, perhaps on a day like Pentecost?
The five wounds of the stigmata are both hands, both feet, and the side. Or possibly the feet are counted as one and the crown of thorns is the fifth. Not 100% sure on that.
Well, being what I am, this story was always a bit obvious to me, including the aspects of the Green Knight/Man and how it relates to nobility and royalty and the ties between a people and the land. There are also aspect of it that resound in history with the Oath of the Oak and the Green Garter, which is tied to the basis of "divine rule" in European noble houses. At the same time, you did such a great job of illuminating the levels of storytelling here, and the various levels of conflicts of loyalty or adherence to various levels of "laws" to the noble guardian. Your own explanations of the main arenas of the subtext were spot on. Some of the other, more esoteric aspects are only of concern to whom they are of concern, after all. I do so appreciate your perspectives on the phenomena of storytelling and metaphorical cosmology in general! Please continue your work and don't be afraid to expand it as you see fit, for your own instincts on such matters have proven not only viable, but truly delightful to have shared with us. In these ways your content is distinct from -- and I would say better than -- those mere pundits of trivia who otherwise populate most fandom channels. You bring so much heart and soul of the matter, it is catagorically the better communion, for which we are most grateful. Thank you, then also, for the contemplation of not just what is said, but what is revealed in so many ways. So thank you for being you, and for drawing these ways together. May a merry Yul be upon you and yours in this season's days of hurried anticipations, and the long deep nights of considerations amidst the solstice time :)
I'm so glad you found my commentary illuminating! I'm very glad you appreciate my perspective, it's a joy to dive deep into the conventions of storytelling, and how authors use it. Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment, and have a lovely holiday season!
1:20:50 -- RE: The "Man-Made Nature" of King Arthur's Court; I actually took notice that you chose to use an excerpt from Gawain's departure in which it is explicitly noted that his livery is plastered with pentagons and references to 5. Pentangular solutions are man-made, 100%, and they must be aware of the chaotic Green as being that which is being tamed, or domesticated. Supposing that we could agree to set aside all "occult" explanations for the number 5 being associated with Humans it is particularly striking to see 5-point systems for cosmology all over the Earth, regardless of the sub-group of human culture we examine. There are 5 days in the week for "different" planets, and 2 days for the Sun and the Moon. There are 5 basic "elements" (Fire, Earth, Air, Water, Quintessence), or any other thing. There are pentatonic scales for musical instruments. The "pattern seeking" inherent with having 5 fingers (by chance or any other reason) has made this a very, very old human cultural pattern. I'm also reminded of something I read from the 19th century, which suggested that 1 acre of wild pasture might yield 1 ton of produce annually, but that a reasonable amount of effort by 1 farmer to make that acre agricultural would yield 10 or even 100 times the amount of produce. This in an age before chemical fertilizers derived from industrial processes, or a tractor.
Poor Robert Holdstock, nobody remembers him anymore. He was an award winning science fiction/fantasy author back in the 80's and 90's. He wrote the magnificent "Mythago Wood" in 1984, and its sequel "Lavondyss" four years later.
Lavondyss is a haunting novel that leans a lot on the legend of the Green Knight, and of course on the myth of the Green Man. I highly recommend you to read these books if you haven't already done so.
Christmas greetings from Finland! Hyvää joulua!
Holdstock's Ryhope Wood series, of which "Mythago Wood" and "Lavondyss" are the first two parts, was a masterpiece. "Lavondyss" in particular can be difficult for readers to get into, but once you do it's a highly rewarding read, as are the other novels in the series. Reading "Lvondyss" was in fact the first time I had heard of the story of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight".
I tried reading Mythago wood, instantly lost interest. The prose is awful.
The kind of prose in which, what should be said in 1 sentence is done in 3 sentences.
Also pretty sure it's in first person, so instead of being able to focus on what's going on you're just hearing the clueless thoughts of the author. You have to be very concise and intelligent if you're going to write in first person and mix it up with a lot of descriptive sentences.
A lot of King Arthur stories revolve around Christmas and Easter. It was a Christmas tournament when Arthur drew the sword from the stone. I love Tolkien's take on this one! Merry Christmas, Jess! May Yule be as festive as it was at Beorn's house!
Merry Christmas! Thanks for watching!
@@Jess_of_the_Shire thank you for the amazing content!
@@Jess_of_the_Shire
Oh this was wonderful! Please do more of these cozy fireside readings!
Just an interesting note, you mentioned “Christian Morality” and Christian sexual morality and chastity, well these morals are actually 100% Pagan morals that Christianity adopted, just as the tale of the Green Knight was originally a Pagan tale that Christianity adopted.
There are very many historial quotes about very high standards of Pagan chastity, but here are just a few:
“From childhood they practice strengthening the body through exercises. The man who remains chaste for the longest time receives the highest praise from his people, since they believe that abstaining from sexual activity before marriage increases the physical strength and moral stature of men.” - Julius Caesar on the customs of the Northern Pagans in his “Gallic Wars”
“The marriage code is strict and honorable among them and no virtue of their morality deserves higher praise than this. The men are satisfied with only one wife. This is how they live, surrounded by virtue and Chastity. They remain uncorrupted by seductions and temptations. Secret adulterous affairs are unknown among both men and women. Adultery is extremely rare, especially considering the size of their population.“ - Roman historian Tacitus on the customs of the Northern Pagans
It is fascinating how old these customs, values & virtues are, long older than we usually assume!!
Thanks for reading to us.
*_Sir Lancelot would have failed that test wholeheartedly_* .
Jess, Now is the time you take the dive and try and record a full audiobook reading of the Trilogy . Never Before has the world had a female version and hearing these shorter readings makes me think how amazing that would be. Maybe do a video about "my favorite passages from the books read out loud" type deal and perhaps ask your community to help fund the project. OR just keep on keeping on and do some more cool short story essay dives like this one here.
Apparently there was a Christmas tradition in the late Victorian period of telling scary stories at Christmas. The knight’s be heading qualifies, so I waited until Christmas evening day to watch the video.
An enjoyable read
Thank you
A beauty bent on ballads bade us bless the book.
Excellent alliteration!
What a Christmas present! Jess reading poetry in front of a fireplace! This was a great start to my holidays
Hi,
I come to GATGK from a Welsh perspective and the holders of the original tale. I grew up about 20 minutes from the location of the green hall (the Wirral Forest), have been an Arthurian enthusiast since i was told tales by my grandmother as a child in North Wales, and publish a gaming magazine based around the Arthurian Cycle.
Simon Armitage, the poet, writes that the author was a monk writing in a Lancastrian dialect of Middle English but wrote of an area he knew and left unnamed, but deemed to be the Wyrel.
With respect, the pronunciation is G'wayne (in English) or G'-wine (in modern Welsh). We know this because of his Welsh name mentioned with Arthur's real name on Eliseg's Pillar. That name being a subversion of Owain (O-wine) or Gwalchmai in Welsh [probably].
Obviously, the original tale featured Cernnunos or the Green Man heavily, and the question of Gawain's chastity was likely a Norman French invention. I used to spend hours every weekend in Mold library reading all the books and texts on 'Arthur', Emrys, Llud, Gwynhyfar, Cei, Peredur, and his nephew and heir apparent, Gawain.
As you mentioned, citing Troy or Brutus is where medieval British scribes said we came from as a nation but the 3 tests of Gawain betrays its Greek roots.
One major stone in the shoe for modern Arthurian scolars is that Eliseg's Pillar gave us the lineage of Cunedda who came from Lanarkshire on the bidding of Gwerthyrn (Vortigern) to north Wales to defend against the Irish. One of his descendants was Owain Ddantgwyn, 'White Tooth', who became warlord of Powys upon Vortigern's death. Being a Philipsian, i believe Arthur's name is derived from his habit of wearing a bear pelt in the winter. At his Summer court in Viroconium his Brythonic subjects would call him the 'bear of Britain' (Arth ap Prydein) and in Chester (his winter court Caer Leon) his Romanised subjects called him Ursus Britannicus or British Bear. Arth-Ursus.
Really, i love the literature but sifting through the French and Jersais stuff to get through to the original Brythonic is exhausting.
Im learning so much by watching your channel, which i discovered today. Thank you!
I forgot to mention, the stone in the shoe is that the Anglicising of Owain, Gawain, is the same name as 'Arthur'.
Now, it's of course possible that the Bear of Britain and the dux bellorum of Mathrafal/Powys have the same name but could it also be possible that Arthur and Gawain are the same person but the protagonist has been split by time?
As an addict of Arthurian Literature, I have learned there are many pronunciations and spellings of names in the various tales. Sir Gawain is my personal favorite of Arthur’s knights and I love the tale of the Green Knight. I’ve read a number of those tales you spoke about. One of my high school English teachers turned me onto Arthurian Literature decades ago and I now have a bookcase devoted to various tales from several points of view. I added Tolkien’s book three years ago. Thank you for reading and sharing. Merry Christmas Jess!
This really is such a fun story. Arthurian literature is a pretty good addiction, all things considered! Merry Christmas!
I never realized Tolkien had all this content outside the LOTR saga, by which I just finished. So, thanks for introducing me to it. Apparently, the journey has just begun.
His Beowulf is perfect.
@@francisjudge I recommend watching "Radical Translations: Maria Dahvana Headley, Emily Wilson, and Madeline Miller" where they discuss exactly that and Headley talks about the various translations of Beowulf including Tolkien's.
@@sebastianevangelista4921 AWESOME. Much obliged Sebastian
@@francisjudge No problem, I hope you enjoy it!
I read Tolkiens translation. It's one of my favorite stories aside from my more Hobbity lit.
The knights in atrhurian legends always feel so naive that it's hard not to try them, if they are as noble as they think of themselves.
I understand a perspective of Morgan and Green Knight, it had to be lots of fun watching Gawain trying to fulfill the expectations laid on him by court, religion and himself.
I knew this story as a child. I also watched the movie and I think it was marvelous, even though it was a parallel for something different than the original.
Thank you for your work, your videos are always a nice part of my week.
I feel so relaxed after listening to you read. Have a great Christmas..!
I'm so glad you enjoyed!
Thanks for the reading Jess, and here's to a video on Tolkien's translation of Beowulf down the line.
Just fabulous - thank you! Someday I would love create a harp accompaniment for someone reading this!
That would be so neat!
Fun Fact: The feast on Christmas Eve is just a bunch of kinds of fish, because it was Christmas Eve, and the religious practice was to eat no red meat/poultry for all of Advent until Christmas Day.
Five wounds of Christ are nail holes in each foot and hand, and a hole in his side where the centurion poked him with his spear.
On a personal note: I think Gawain had two "sins" -- lying to Bertelak about the sash, and perjuring himself at confession.
My favorite Christmas read
It's perfect for the season!
Two for flinching. ;)
My first exposure to the story was the film Sword of the Valiant with Sean Connery. While it's a cheesy 80's film, and the effects don't hold up, Sean Connery elevates the whole thing.
It's a really haunting and evocative story, full of meaning. What strikes me most is the passage to adulthood and maturity.
Merry Christmas to you Jess and your friends and family.
That was my recollection too. I recall reading the tale of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight as a teenager, and when I saw that film I immediately recognized it although I agree with you it was pretty cheesy. I am now having to look for the green night so I can watch it.
Forgive me for this correction, but it got me to thinking. The Five Wounds of Christ are literal: two hands, two feet, and the spear in His side. The image of the Crown of Thorns was a much later set of prayers associated with the Rosary prayers, which after the time of the Albigensians often replaced the saying of the 150 Psalms in the Psalter; the Rosary prayers prompted by the Dominican Order. Anyway, I was thinking about the 5 Wounds being equal except for the last Wound, the spear in the side, which was so extreme. And in presentation of ideas, Anglo Saxons would not say "if ... then" but "tha ... tha," not making use of time. "The higher they stand, the harder they fall." Many of the rules and questions of the Green Knight are like that: a unity between subject and object, not a more Latin "if... then" argument about time. Sir Gawain is only a little concerned about death. So the Five Virtues are shown as continuously connected. One more note: Greek (Byzantine) musical theory approximates the musical scale as 72 steps called moria, and their symbol for music therefore is the five-pointed star. This has nothing to do with anything pagan; the books about it are in Greek Seminaries (such as Holy Cross in Brookline MA, authored by Savas). Greeks just view music that way, and as something continuous. It does have a Christmas vibe, like Dickens's Christmas Carol, because it questions all the attitudes of the church, and ultimately, virtue saves his life. It is honest virtue though, and not a sort of political posturing. Merry Christmas to all!
I thoroughly enjoyed this. You did a good job balancing the narration and explanation.
This is my first time hearing this story and it was delightful. I am a huge fan of Tolkien and the medieval time period. An amazing way to relax after being overwhelmed. Building Legos and listening to the story. I did not guess that the Lord was also the Green Knight, but now that it is said I do see the tests more clearly. Thank you, Jess!
The 5 stigmata Jess are the Crown of thorns, the two wrists, the side and the two feet count as one since a single nail was used. Depending on who is telling it Eastern or Western.
What a nice presentation of this masterful treatment of the classic tale! It is very much appreciated, and I will surely revisit your telling. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and New Year.
Thanks for watching, William! Merry Christmas!
I'm so glad I found your channel. You are an excellent story teller. I am reminiscent of the story tellers who came to my elementary school to show us new books and acted out the stories in ways that engaged our young minds and enthralled us to pick up books and read for ourselves. Keep up the good work, we are most appreciative.
I had a kids book with this story too I remember green blood I loved it 💚
Tolkien’s translation is my favorite. His personal writing style fits so well with the tale here. Love reading it.
-T
Many years ago, when I was active in the Society For Creative Anachronism, 3 ladies at a 12th Night celebration trapped me into being unchivalrous, then called a Court of Chivalry at night & charged me with ungentle behavior. The next weekend at another nearby event, I showed up in sackcloth, with a placard proclaiming my dishonor, & leaflets declaring I would neither sing, dance, nor feast at table until the ladies' hearts were softened & the dishonor was removed. All the other attendees scorned the ladies for their cruelty until they were forced to make a public apology.
This was my first exposure to this story, and I enjoyed it immensely. Thank you for presenting it so thoughtfully. Since you asked, I will say that I was not surprised to learn that Lord Bertilak was the Green Knight. :) Thanks again for another great video! Discovering your channel was one of the few good things that happened to me in 2023, and I look forward to more of your content!
I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! I hope 2024 is kinder to you, friend :)
I enjoy your readings ! Thank you for sharing reminds me of my childhood inspires me to share with my kids!
10:23 his long loins?.... this guy had it all....
This is one of my favorite stories of Arthur's knights. You told it well and you analysis helped deepen my appreciation.
I think the first time I heard the story of Gawain and the Green Knight was when it was re-told by Dael Kingsmill. The second time was by Overly Sarcastic Productions. The third time was when I watched the movie. But this is the first time I hear the original text (well, a translation of it, but close enough).
You read and reveal the poem exceedingly well. Thoroughly enjoyed.
Great reading, thank you. I loved 23.40, the knight "headed off".
crazy just finished the movie today then this pops up
I hope you enjoyed the movie!
I hope you had a very Merry Christmastide and a Happy New Year. Thank you so much for sharing your passion for Tolkien and Mideval fiction.
The movie The Green Knight had the actor (Joel Edgerton) who played Gawain in the 2004 King Arthur. He played the lord that let Gawain stay at his manor. I just thought it was neat.
The five wounds are the nail holes in each hand and foot and the spear wound in the side. I always used to wonder about the crown of thorns as a kid too, but apparently that, like the lashes on the back aren’t counted.
I first came across this when I studied Middle English literature in my second year at university (1981). I still have the book with that and "Pearl" and other poems.
Rime was also used in traditional Irish poetry, which had complicated rules about rhyme and alliteration. French tends to use a mix of rhyme and particularly syllable count in poetry because it doesn't have a heavy stress accent.
The theme of the eldritch figure who issues a beheading challenge to the warriors in the hall is even older.
I think the stigmata would be hands and feet (all pierced by nails) and one in the side (pierced by a spear), but I could be mistaken.
I took a literature course in university as one of my electives, and we covered this story. At this time, I had too much anxiety to speak up, but the professor was asking students to throw out some thoughts they had about the story, about interesting subtext, etc... I got too nervous to speak up, so after the class was over, I went to the professor... I pointed out that the only way any character could live up to the high standards of the Green Knight, the high standards of chivalry, was to be a supernatural being. The Green Knight didn't have to feel fear of death or worry about consequences, he can just reattach his head and go about his life, but for a regular human to face all that took a tremendous amount of courage and acceptance of the death to come... Gawain, as flawed a human as he is, still rose to the moment, however imperfectly.
The professor chastised me a little for not bringing that up during the class, it was a great point, he said, and one he himself hadn't thought of or vocalized (he didn't do it meanly, he meant it as encouragement to speak up in the future, it was more of a "I wish you had said that!" more than anything else)
I've never forgotten that, or this story, because of that experience, and now I have an additional reason to forever remember it:
The reminder that even the nost virtuous and brave human will still make mistakes, but can still raise to the occasion, make amends, and make things right... It's the choices we make at the end of the day that matter, and even if you falter, you can do the right thing in the end.
At least... These are the things I took away from it. I like this story. I did not like the film adaptation I saw of it recently, I understood they were trying to subvert expectations, but it felt like it ruined it instead.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my TedTalk, I'll be going back into my cave of irrelevance now 😅
Firstly, my thanks for your reading of this tale. If a vital story tellers gift is that your listener stays with you until the end, then you have that gift.
Although I have long been aware of the poem I had not read it until this last year. I read reviews of the movie retelling and made a bargain with an old friend that we would both see the film and then meet up in some hills on the border between England and Wales and talk about it while we walked. Unfortunately, this has not yet happened, and so I also read Simon Armitage's excellent modern translation. My wife has now given me his translation of Pearl for Christmas, and I have the pleasure of reading it to look forward to.
It is a powerful story and one that I am wonder glade to have read. My hope is that every man would be humbled by hearing the story or reading it. We should all wear a green girdle about our necks. I wonder if would have been able to have resisted the beautiful lady. I fear that I would not. And I would definitely have taken the girdle to protect my own life. Having said that I do feel that the gentle and chivalrous games that men and women played with one another represent one of the best, and most delightful expressions of the relationship between men and women that I can think of. I really don't think that we have progressed since that time although a dear friend in Germany, a high school teacher, tells me that she has always tried to teach the boys in her classes how to be charming in their treatment of girls and women.
Thanx so much for setting me down by the fire, and reading such a fun&sweet story to me, Jess!
Happy 2024 to you&yours.
That was delightful, thank you. Happy Holidays however you celebrate them.
I think the five wounds of Christ are the two on the hands (the stigmata), the one in the side (where water and blood came out) and two on the feet or ankles, where a single spike or nail would have held both feet in place.
I just came from seeing the movie this weekend, and I had to go and find Tolkien’s translation, because I figured he would never adapt a story that was as brutal and gross as the movie was. And I was right. His version, as I expected, was much more beautiful and meaningful. Thank you for sharing it. I don’t hate the movie, but I wish I had not experienced the story first in that format. 😂
It happens at Christmas, or at least starts at Christmas, so it is a Christmas story. On this 2nd of Yule, Happy New Shire Year!
1:17:30 -- RE: The Law of Chivalry; 2 side points which I can't ignore from the story. First is that Gawain is a guest in the household of the unknown lord; and second, that prisoners of war (or circumstance) were often ransomed. See also: C.S. Lewis' "Space" Trilogy with a main character called Ransom, a philologist.
Just fyi: the 5 Wounds of Christ are the ones that He received on the Cross: 1 in each hand, 1 in each foot, & the lance that pierced His side.
I think it’s so interesting how the story explores the difference between chivalry and morality and shows that they don’t always equal each other (what is valued as social convention doesn’t always line up with what’s actually right).
It would have helped to have watched your video before seeing the recent movie version. It was rather confusing, but you have helped me understand it a lot better.
I'm glad I was able to help you understand!
I would say that, rather than a “happy medium” he is able to prioritize what is most important of the various codes that he tries to live out.
My mother named me Gwalchmai so i've heard all sorts of things about my name, never knew Tolkien wrote a book about it!
Only experience was the movie that you mentioned, which i liked more than my wife did, but it was still pretty... Edgy lol
Don't think the movie pulled the identity of the knight at all, and gawain was quite opposite in morality.
I liked this read a lot more
This was a great listen for my holiday traveling tonight. Almost the exact length of my drive to go see some family. The extended reads are really enjoyable!
I'm so glad it worked out like that! Thanks for watching!
i love that your doin this, and yes i made it through the whole thing, i read alot of tolkiens stuff when i was in my teens but that was like 25 years ago. Thank you for getting me some of the works i missed
I first heard about Gawain and the Green Knight in an English college class. Then I realized that I had Tolkien’s translation in a box set of Tolkien books I got for Christmas a few years back. It was an interesting story. Definitely a more complex medieval tale, as far as the morals and messaging goes. Usually medieval fairy tales (especially Brothers Grimm) tend to be more straightforward when it comes to the message/moral. At least that’s what I remember from reading those way back when.
Thanks for this story, Jess. Merry Christmas and may more of your dreams come true during the next year. Best wishes.
Thanks so much! Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas, Jess! What a wonderful listen this was as I prepared for the holiday this morning. ❤
New to the channel, but a long time Tolkien fan. Enjoyable listen. I enjoy your content. Thank you.
Fun fact, Reynard became so popular in France, "renard" is now the french word for fox, instead og "goupil" which was the old frenhc word for it. Fox however come from proto-germanic fuhsaz ;)
Wonderfully done! I'm sure you're aware the story itself is much older. For example there is a similar story with Cuchullain in Gawains place. Instead of the green knight it is a giant who turns out to be Cu Roi.
merry Christmas! thanks for the great content this year and always!
Merry Christmas!
Thanks for reading us the story, I enjoyed it.
I heard about it in one or the other form during my childhood, but never from start to finish.
Ah yes, the Green Knight! My favourite work by Tolkien outside of his own legendarium. It is a rare occurence when a language scholar is also a true artist and poet. We are very lucky the Professor was both.
Really good way to come to the christmas mood. Merry Christmas!
This was really enjoyable to listen to, would love more similar videos from you. Thanks.
Thanks for making this video, it was an enjoyable, relaxing and thought provoking listen! :) As well as the ties to nature you point out, I feel like the Green Knight represents ancestry and the idea of a deep, (and recently rediscovered, thanks to Greek scholars migrating from Byzantium to Italy in the late 1400's) forgotten past, a sort of judgment of the ages. The 1500's in Britain was a time when people were taking an academic interest in hillforts, Roman remains and ancient monuments, and were no doubt delving in to round barrows and finding large numbers of bronze socketed axes. They had a somewhat confused idea of the chronology of cultures and sites, and tried to link what they could to classical writings. it is likely that the Neolithic Longbarrows would have been lumped in with the far more numerous Bronze Age Round Barrows and Bowl Barrows etc., and so the idea of barrow burials and bronze weapons/tools would go hand in hand (and would probably have been attributed to Druids, Romans or Celts, incorrectly). As you were reading, it struck me that this poem that is so old to us, may have been seen to be promoting some pretty radical ideas in the Christin 1500's, despite the Christian morality ensconced in it!
I should finally read this I have had it on my book shelf for years
There is a delightful novel adaptation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by Gerald Morris by the title "The Squire, His Knight, and His Lady", 2nd of a 10-book series of Arthurian retellings. It is well worth anyone's time, assuming they have a fondness for Arthurian tales, absurd situations, and acerbic banter. Having been reminded of them, I have some re-reading to do - and I'll certainly look up Tolkien's version of the poem again as well!
Thank you, Jess. This was beautiful. I'm very glad to have found your channel. Merry Christmas.
The Five wounds of the stigmata were the wounds of the nails in Crist's hands and feet and the wound from the spear in his side.
Great reading- I love this story and feel the recent film was magnificent, wyrd, and wise -🌳
I first came across the Tale of the Green Kight when I was 14. It was a german translation. It hit real Nostalgia to hear this Tale again, now 16 Years later. Also, it's interessting to listen to this in English - the original language of this story.
Good job on the pronunciation. Check Simon Roper and/or Jackson Crawford for other attempts.
Thanks so much! I listened to a couple of folks to try and zero in on something accurate
@@Jess_of_the_Shire I think you pulled it off!
this video is GOLD
thank you so much for all the information!
What a wonderful and relaxing listen. Merry Christmas!
Jess , thanks for another great video ! Hope you have a Very Merry Christmas ! 🥶🧊🌨️✨🎄🎁🦌☃️❄️🎅⛄💚❤️
RE: Gs and Ws being interchangeable; It strikes me that some modern English dialects, developed long after Shakespearean influence, will happily exchange the G sound for a V sound, which is practically "next door" with W and the W is *often* the V sound, too. Similarly, F and V might get exchanged.
Merry Christmas, Jess! I hope you have a wonderful holiday. A whole video dedicated to Tolkien's translation work and the overall art of translations could be really cool, and for pointers/ideas I recommend watching "Radical Translations: Maria Dahvana Headley, Emily Wilson, and Madeline Miller" where they discuss exactly that and Headley talks about the various translations of Beowulf including Tolkien's. Also, you might take interest in the video "Legends Summarized: King Arthur" by Overly Sarcastic Productions as well as the comic book series Once & Future by Kieron Gillen and Dan Mora because both place a great deal of emphasis on the ways in which the Arthurian mythos has evolved as a result of the differing cultures (Britain and France) and societal values of whatever era certain iterations were written in.
Thanks for the pointers! That would be a really fun video...
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Your welcome! I hope you enjoy them and I think that you could make something really fun out of it all.
It’s June I’ll come back to this video at Christmas time:)
Looks great though
Morgan le Fey isn't just a sorceress in King Arthur's Court, she is Gawain's aunt, sister to Morgause, Gawain's mother, and, in fact, sister to King Arthur, which is why Gawain is known as the King's sister-son.
Really good video. I thoroughly enjoyed it. As far as the sin gawain committed by agreeing to the terms of the game and then breaking one could interpret it as lying. He wasn’t honest though it is understandable why he did what he did. The story is definitely an interesting study on morality and what causes us to make the choices we do.
There was a very faithful to the source material movie made of this a few years ago. It is worth watching.
I think the first translation I heard was the W. S. Merwin (also a great translation imo). I somehow had not known that Tolkien translated this story 😅
Happy new year!!
Fantastic, thank you for this it was such a pleasant time and very well explained!
The five wounds of Christ are hands and feet (4) from being pierced by nails and Christ’s side (1) where the centurion thrust his spear/lance into Christ to ensure he was dead.
You’ve done a video on Frankenstein. I’ve thought you would do an excellent job with Dr Jykell and Mr Hyde. I’ve heard different theories on his potion. When I suggested, during a lunch break, that the potion was distilled alcohol two coworkers strongly disagreed, but the two borderline alcoholics tentatively agreed with my theory.
Y'know...I grew up with it, but I don't remember it being in verse. I think it might have been the Mary Pope Osborne version, but I don't remember if she did a 1:1 version of this with the Magic Treehouse. Either way, I do remember reading the story growing up.
This was excellent, thanks for making this - everything about it was perfect! I would like to make a humble request for a reading of Tolkien's The Fall of Arthur, perhaps on a day like Pentecost?
John Boorman's Arthurian film Excalibur started out as a LOTR production. I will always be curious what Boorman's LOTR would have been?
Fire side readings is a good vibe. I could listen to any sort of stories, Even if non Tolkien and the like.
Run, Gowain! They're after ye lucky charms!
23:40 Lol. “… and headed off”. Yes he did.
It's meant to sound like an epic poem by the blind bard who gave us the Odyssey.
The five wounds of the stigmata are both hands, both feet, and the side. Or possibly the feet are counted as one and the crown of thorns is the fifth. Not 100% sure on that.
I love the poetry, but never found it humorous when I read it. Im kinda getting it, gonna need a few listens.
It's a different sort of comedy that's for sure. Thanks for watching!
Well, being what I am, this story was always a bit obvious to me, including the aspects of the Green Knight/Man and how it relates to nobility and royalty and the ties between a people and the land. There are also aspect of it that resound in history with the Oath of the Oak and the Green Garter, which is tied to the basis of "divine rule" in European noble houses.
At the same time, you did such a great job of illuminating the levels of storytelling here, and the various levels of conflicts of loyalty or adherence to various levels of "laws" to the noble guardian. Your own explanations of the main arenas of the subtext were spot on. Some of the other, more esoteric aspects are only of concern to whom they are of concern, after all.
I do so appreciate your perspectives on the phenomena of storytelling and metaphorical cosmology in general! Please continue your work and don't be afraid to expand it as you see fit, for your own instincts on such matters have proven not only viable, but truly delightful to have shared with us.
In these ways your content is distinct from -- and I would say better than -- those mere pundits of trivia who otherwise populate most fandom channels. You bring so much heart and soul of the matter, it is catagorically the better communion, for which we are most grateful. Thank you, then also, for the contemplation of not just what is said, but what is revealed in so many ways.
So thank you for being you, and for drawing these ways together. May a merry Yul be upon you and yours in this season's days of hurried anticipations, and the long deep nights of considerations amidst the solstice time :)
I'm so glad you found my commentary illuminating! I'm very glad you appreciate my perspective, it's a joy to dive deep into the conventions of storytelling, and how authors use it. Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment, and have a lovely holiday season!
1:20:50 -- RE: The "Man-Made Nature" of King Arthur's Court; I actually took notice that you chose to use an excerpt from Gawain's departure in which it is explicitly noted that his livery is plastered with pentagons and references to 5. Pentangular solutions are man-made, 100%, and they must be aware of the chaotic Green as being that which is being tamed, or domesticated.
Supposing that we could agree to set aside all "occult" explanations for the number 5 being associated with Humans it is particularly striking to see 5-point systems for cosmology all over the Earth, regardless of the sub-group of human culture we examine. There are 5 days in the week for "different" planets, and 2 days for the Sun and the Moon. There are 5 basic "elements" (Fire, Earth, Air, Water, Quintessence), or any other thing. There are pentatonic scales for musical instruments. The "pattern seeking" inherent with having 5 fingers (by chance or any other reason) has made this a very, very old human cultural pattern.
I'm also reminded of something I read from the 19th century, which suggested that 1 acre of wild pasture might yield 1 ton of produce annually, but that a reasonable amount of effort by 1 farmer to make that acre agricultural would yield 10 or even 100 times the amount of produce. This in an age before chemical fertilizers derived from industrial processes, or a tractor.
prety sure the five stigmata are one in each hand, one in each foot, and one in the side from the spear they tried to feed him water with, iguess
Merry Christmas!