A great segment might be what different states pay their umpires. Herre in Mich it's 60/53. There is a severe umpire shortage and they can't figure out why. Ohio football referees threatened to strike in week 1 when they were getting 80 per contest. Their pay was bumped to 100 per game. Where are you and what dies your state pay, would be a great topic.
Game ending run rules are not specified by NFHS. Run rules are adopted at the state association level and therefore may vary from state to state. Beginning in 2023 in high school softball, all runs associated with a game ending home run are counted. Therefore, the umpires should not head to the house until the batter-runner crosses the plate!
I umpire some tourneys in my area under USSSA rules, and our games can end if time has expired and either team is up by 12 runs or more. But, we don't have a per inning run rule. Just keeps us from playing an almost unnecessary half inning.
I think a much more succinct and understandable way of stating a "run rule" is: For example, the 10-after-5 rule: "If a team is behind by 10 or more runs *and* has had at least 5 complete at-bats, the game is over. The team that is behind must always be allowed to finish their half of an inning once that inning has begun." This covers all situations. You don't have to get into discussions about the home team, visiting team, or half-innings - which tend to confuse people. Just focus on the team that is behind because, after all, they're the ones who are getting run-ruled.
Hmmmm -- must say that I've never run into the "bases awarded" scenario when working games with run limits per half inning. If a HR with 4 runs already scored could potentially result in an 8-run inning (if a grand slam were to occur), then wouldn't we be obligated to honor that as the max runs possible, rather than 5 runs or more being the end of the game? Example (admittedly far-fetched): Bottom of the 4th inning, home team batting and losing 12 - 4. Time expires during the at-bat, but could the home team not theoretically score four runs, then load the bases, and try and tie the game with a grand slam?
Take away.... We have a 5 run limit rule except for in the 6th inning there is no run limit. Therefore it eliminates the mathematical scenario to end the game early. (For little league.)
I want to emphasize that amateur umpires should bring a cell phone on the field but, keep it in a bag hung on a fence and not on your person. You might have a 911 situation and need to make that call. A phone should NOT be used as a timing device. Hopefully, you're being paid so take part of a game fee and get a reliable watch or stopwatch. A time limit is a judgement call by the umpire. When the time is expired, the time is expired and there is no discussion. I try and use the following mechanics...#1 If possible, try and announce that time has expired while the teams are still on the field. Avoid announcing that time has expired at the end of the half-inning. Sometimes it can't be avoided but, if you announce time has expired at the end of the half-inning, coaches have more of an opportunity to try and negotiate with you. It's not a negotiation. So, we're in the middle of play, we wait for action to cease and we call time and say once loudly towards each coach, "Time has expired! We will finish the inning!" If the home team is leading and on offense you would announce, "Time has expired! This is the last batter!" If your game has a drop dead time (where the game ends immediately regardless of the game situation...), typically the score reverts back to the last completed inning. Again, this is not for umpires to discuss or negotiate. We have reached the drop dead time, the ball game is over. If the coaches are unclear about the score, they can discuss it with league leadership. And as always, when ANY baseball game has ended for ANY reason, the umpires should simply get off the field.
Question: When applying the mathematical elimination rule, do you ignore the fact that with a 5-run per inning limit, a team could score 8 runs in a inning with a home run, and just use 5 instead?
At 5:56 you talk about games played with a 5-run/inning limit. What about this play: SITUATION: A team has already scored 4 runs in the inning. Bases loaded. 1 out. PLAY: Ground ball hit to F6, who flips to F4 at 2nd who fails to touch the bag. F4's throw to 1st to "complete" a double play is wild and goes out-of-play. Everybody is safe.
@@bobh6728 But isn't R2 awarded home (2-base award) because the ball was thrown out-of-play? How is that any different than the example of a batter hitting a home run with the bases loaded and _all_ runners are allowed to score - scoring _more_ than 5 runs in the inning? Don't all base awards have to be made on the final play, even if it involves more than 5 runs being scored?
@@DavidEmerling79 Wow, lots to consider on that one. I don’t find the rule in the NFHS rule book. I searched for Georgia baseball rules and only found where it says a limit of 5 runs. I found nothing about awarded bases. So I can’t analyze that without the specific rules. So without knowing the exact wording of the rule, there are a lot of interesting possibilities. It may depend on the exact timing of the play. Once R1 reaches second base safely because of the missed touch, and R3 crosses the plate, the inning is over and the throw never happened. Is that correct? What if the touch is missed, the throw is made, then R3 scores before the ball goes out of play? Is the inning over with 5 runs? If R1 touches second before the throw, he would be awarded home without the 5-run rule, so do 7 runs score? Lots of possibilities unless the rule that I can’t find is more specific on the awarded based part.
@@bobh6728 Bases are awarded based on the time-of-throw. R3 probably hasn't even crossed the plate by that time, in all likelihood. I gave an unnecessarily convoluted play to make a point. What about this: SITUATION: Bases loaded. 2 outs. Four runs have already scored in the inning. PLAY: Ground ball to F6 whose throw to 1st is wild and goes out-of-play. Much simpler! All runners are awarded TWO bases from the time of pitch. Wouldn't that mean that _both_ R2 & R3 score?
@@DavidEmerling79 Would have to see the exact wording of the awarded bases part of the rule? Your simplest example is still not clear until you know the wording. Once B1 touches first there can be no force at first, and R3 crosses the plate while the ball is still rolling toward the dead ball area, is the inning over? Or do you wait until play ends? If you wait, the ball could be picked up and thrown to force R1 at second who is already leaving the field because he thought 5 runs scored, and no runs score! Never found a rule like this. Only a limit that only 5 runs can be scored per inning. One rule set was interesting in that it said only 5 runs can be scored per inning then goes on to say that once the sixth run crosses the plate AND play ends, then the inning ends. Still only 5 runs recorded.
A great segment might be what different states pay their umpires. Herre in Mich it's 60/53. There is a severe umpire shortage and they can't figure out why. Ohio football referees threatened to strike in week 1 when they were getting 80 per contest. Their pay was bumped to 100 per game. Where are you and what dies your state pay, would be a great topic.
Game ending run rules are not specified by NFHS. Run rules are adopted at the state association level and therefore may vary from state to state. Beginning in 2023 in high school softball, all runs associated with a game ending home run are counted. Therefore, the umpires should not head to the house until the batter-runner crosses the plate!
I umpire some tourneys in my area under USSSA rules, and our games can end if time has expired and either team is up by 12 runs or more. But, we don't have a per inning run rule. Just keeps us from playing an almost unnecessary half inning.
Anything to get us to the next game when one is obviously over!
I think a much more succinct and understandable way of stating a "run rule" is:
For example, the 10-after-5 rule:
"If a team is behind by 10 or more runs *and* has had at least 5 complete at-bats, the game is over. The team that is behind must always be allowed to finish their half of an inning once that inning has begun."
This covers all situations. You don't have to get into discussions about the home team, visiting team, or half-innings - which tend to confuse people. Just focus on the team that is behind because, after all, they're the ones who are getting run-ruled.
Hmmmm -- must say that I've never run into the "bases awarded" scenario when working games with run limits per half inning. If a HR with 4 runs already scored could potentially result in an 8-run inning (if a grand slam were to occur), then wouldn't we be obligated to honor that as the max runs possible, rather than 5 runs or more being the end of the game?
Example (admittedly far-fetched): Bottom of the 4th inning, home team batting and losing 12 - 4. Time expires during the at-bat, but could the home team not theoretically score four runs, then load the bases, and try and tie the game with a grand slam?
Take away.... We have a 5 run limit rule except for in the 6th inning there is no run limit. Therefore it eliminates the mathematical scenario to end the game early. (For little league.)
I want to emphasize that amateur umpires should bring a cell phone on the field but, keep it in a bag hung on a fence and not on your person. You might have a 911 situation and need to make that call. A phone should NOT be used as a timing device. Hopefully, you're being paid so take part of a game fee and get a reliable watch or stopwatch. A time limit is a judgement call by the umpire. When the time is expired, the time is expired and there is no discussion. I try and use the following mechanics...#1 If possible, try and announce that time has expired while the teams are still on the field. Avoid announcing that time has expired at the end of the half-inning. Sometimes it can't be avoided but, if you announce time has expired at the end of the half-inning, coaches have more of an opportunity to try and negotiate with you. It's not a negotiation. So, we're in the middle of play, we wait for action to cease and we call time and say once loudly towards each coach, "Time has expired! We will finish the inning!" If the home team is leading and on offense you would announce, "Time has expired! This is the last batter!" If your game has a drop dead time (where the game ends immediately regardless of the game situation...), typically the score reverts back to the last completed inning. Again, this is not for umpires to discuss or negotiate. We have reached the drop dead time, the ball game is over. If the coaches are unclear about the score, they can discuss it with league leadership. And as always, when ANY baseball game has ended for ANY reason, the umpires should simply get off the field.
Question: When applying the mathematical elimination rule, do you ignore the fact that with a 5-run per inning limit, a team could score 8 runs in a inning with a home run, and just use 5 instead?
Yep!
At 5:56 you talk about games played with a 5-run/inning limit.
What about this play:
SITUATION: A team has already scored 4 runs in the inning. Bases loaded. 1 out.
PLAY: Ground ball hit to F6, who flips to F4 at 2nd who fails to touch the bag. F4's throw to 1st to "complete" a double play is wild and goes out-of-play. Everybody is safe.
R3 would score the 5th run and the inning is over.
@@bobh6728 But isn't R2 awarded home (2-base award) because the ball was thrown out-of-play? How is that any different than the example of a batter hitting a home run with the bases loaded and _all_ runners are allowed to score - scoring _more_ than 5 runs in the inning? Don't all base awards have to be made on the final play, even if it involves more than 5 runs being scored?
@@DavidEmerling79 Wow, lots to consider on that one. I don’t find the rule in the NFHS rule book. I searched for Georgia baseball rules and only found where it says a limit of 5 runs. I found nothing about awarded bases. So I can’t analyze that without the specific rules.
So without knowing the exact wording of the rule, there are a lot of interesting possibilities. It may depend on the exact timing of the play.
Once R1 reaches second base safely because of the missed touch, and R3 crosses the plate, the inning is over and the throw never happened. Is that correct?
What if the touch is missed, the throw is made, then R3 scores before the ball goes out of play? Is the inning over with 5 runs?
If R1 touches second before the throw, he would be awarded home without the 5-run rule, so do 7 runs score?
Lots of possibilities unless the rule that I can’t find is more specific on the awarded based part.
@@bobh6728 Bases are awarded based on the time-of-throw. R3 probably hasn't even crossed the plate by that time, in all likelihood.
I gave an unnecessarily convoluted play to make a point.
What about this:
SITUATION: Bases loaded. 2 outs. Four runs have already scored in the inning.
PLAY: Ground ball to F6 whose throw to 1st is wild and goes out-of-play.
Much simpler! All runners are awarded TWO bases from the time of pitch. Wouldn't that mean that _both_ R2 & R3 score?
@@DavidEmerling79 Would have to see the exact wording of the awarded bases part of the rule? Your simplest example is still not clear until you know the wording. Once B1 touches first there can be no force at first, and R3 crosses the plate while the ball is still rolling toward the dead ball area, is the inning over? Or do you wait until play ends? If you wait, the ball could be picked up and thrown to force R1 at second who is already leaving the field because he thought 5 runs scored, and no runs score!
Never found a rule like this. Only a limit that only 5 runs can be scored per inning. One rule set was interesting in that it said only 5 runs can be scored per inning then goes on to say that once the sixth run crosses the plate AND play ends, then the inning ends. Still only 5 runs recorded.