Return to Monkey Island: Why So Serious?
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- Опубліковано 22 вер 2022
- Return to Monkey Island isn't just a nostalgic adventure: it also cares to reflect on its fandom, and the kinds of inflated memories that fans experience as they grow up.
Ron Gilbert and his team seem to have created Return to Monkey Island both for and as a reply to these fans, who have roamed internet forums to discuss the original two Monkey Island games for years - most notably, the second game’s confusing ending. The game's nested structure is a constant reflection on how we tell stories, and on how they change beyond our control.
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Music by Jelle Goossens - www.masteringfactory.com/ - Ігри
The ending of this particular game really didn't click with me, and specifically BECAUSE of the message the game seems to espouse. I got the impression that a player is meant to take away that the journey is more important than the end, and that chasing after past glories can cause you to miss that and fail to appreciate what you have now.
But... Its hard to appreciate the journey when so much that it builds up is left unanswered. What happened to LeChuck? Why was Elaine so weirdly placid about Guybrush's increasingly obsessively behaviour? What happened with the Voodoo Lady? The game just expects me to forget all that and say 'Well, thinking about those things is it's own kind of fun, right?' But I'm paying to be told a story! I don't think it's unreasonable to presume that the internal narrative will be concluded before I'm left with more questions.
Then there's the idea that we should just stop chasing after past glories. The ending (and subsequent dev message) feels like Ron Gilbert's personal way to dealing with the 'Monkey on his back' that the MI series became. Everyone wanted a new game, what was the Secret, how could he ever live up to the pressure, why won't people just forget that old success and stop pestering him about it?
Well, Gilbert himself FED that hype. In the years between MI2 and Returns, Ron hinted frequently that there was more to the story, that people still didn't know the REAL secret and what a shame it was that people would likely never get to see the story he envisioned. He fed into fan hype, only to then give them an ending that seemed to say 'Gosh, why did you CARE so much? Wasn't the journey along the way more important? You're totally missing the point..." - and all of this in the form of an ending that, ironically, refuses to move on from the ending to MI2, restating as canon the same ending he gave 30 years ago. 'There WAS no greater secret, move on and let me do the same.'
It just feels petulant, and I think I'm done with Gilbert games going forward. Sorry for the long comment, I just kinda realised while writing how utterly disappointing it all was.
I totally get that. “It’s about the journey, not the destination” can in different hands be a beautiful message or a copout. But it felt a bit odd to me here as the whole journey felt rushed-both in terms of how I was supposed to move through it and how it was narratively set up. I do think I enjoy this game most when viewing it as a sort of short, authorial statement instead of a proper conclusion or sendoff, though I see that might be a tough sell for some.
@@playingitstraight That's more or less where I'm at, yeah. If it had all been pitched as Ron's final thoughts on Monkey Island, sure, have at it. Instead, what was marketed as the real canon sequel exactly as the author intended turned out to be (in my eyes) an overly streamlined story with no narrative payoff and an ending that seemed designed to deride fans that had ever been invested in the first place.
Really good analysis. As a 44 years old that played Monkey when he was a kid. I feel very identified. My problem was that I never really connected with RTMI. I found the art very nice but I could look at guybrush and feel it was me there again commanding the game. Weird, still I enjoy the joy that many others got. For me it was more like.. a “nice” experience.
Thank you for watching! Nicely put, this feeling like you’re an outsider somehow. I agree, RTMI was nice, but not as immersive as some others have described it. Maybe because the whole thing is so meta..
Tales had a puzzle that already gave us the answer to all this, the "secret box" puzzle where you needed to find a "secret" for a voodoo spell. When you got the box and attempted to open the box, Guybrush says "Shhh, it's a secret!". It literally needs to keep being a secret in order for the spell to work.
This is the most wonderfully well thought out, insightful, intelligent slice of youtube I've seen in a while. Thank you!
For me, the ending really echos the famous Ralph Waldo Emerson quote "Its the not the Destination, It's the journey". Although i'm sad to say goodbye to the series, i was happy with this ending. Thanks for the video.
Amazing work as always! So glad I found your channel through your beautiful outer wilds videos
Thank you for watching!
I like Escape the best. Guybrush just looks right in that one
Beautiful. I love your conclusions at the end.
The IP lived on through the constant insistence of fans wanting to know "The Secret" for 30 years, there was no way this couldn't end in a way that didn't put meta in the spotlight, the forum digging is as much part of the experience as the games themselves.
I compare this to Umineko, another super meta driven story, where the author eventually revealed everything in the manga adaptation. In that case it was comprehensible, because that one was an incredibly dramatic story, the secret ("Who was the one that killed the protagonist family?") was vital to properly convey it's message and give a resolution that didn't feel dishonest. But in Monkey Island the secret didn't mean anything to anyone, only what they thought it would mean to them, because there wasn't even a question behind that secret, just "What is the secret?"
I never really cared about the secret that much. I initially just thought the secret was the fact that there was a crazy portal to hell beneath a sparsely populated tropical island in the Caribbean. I just liked Guybrush's piratey adventures and happily played the rest of the series without any expectation to discover the secret.
Wonderfully put. The secret isn’t the contents of the box, it’s whatever the player hoped it would be. And because of that it’s still somewhat a mystery, and a secret unique to each of us.
I hope now the series can move forwards with new mysteries and secrets!
Personally I feel is less of a joke on us but rather Ron Gilbert pushing us to reflect upon the games.
The game never devalues the accomplishments Guybrush did. And Ron even when as far as to bring elements of the games he didn't work on even if he could have just easily set the game in a way that only made the first two canon.
Rather he is making the point that the Secret shouldn't be the be all and end all of what the franchise amounts to. As tacky as it sounds "The journey is more than the destination"
So many fans clung on the idea that Ron's vision is the one true MI experience to the point of some shunning upon other instalments. Return shows you they are indeed valid. ALL of the are, cause it's the stories we tell what is the true treasure.
Thanks for watching! I agree, the subtext definitely doesn’t seem to be the whole thing is a joke, and that the secret is what you make of it.
I guess I was talking more about my own tendency to view these older games through a nostalgic lens of gravitas, which is kind of odd given the source material. I liked the idea that if you do insist on an answer, and open that final treasure chest, what you find is a joke, itself a callback to the first game. Like you missed the whole point.
I really liked this video! Subscribed
Very nuanced and considered commentary, thank you.
Never played any of these games myself but I liked your analysis of them. I really enjoy your vids, hope you keep making them.
It's like one of my favourite reviews of Monkey Island says, There is no secret of Monkey Island, its all just the principle of the thing. I enjoyed Return a lot and was happy to even get the opportunity to return to Monkey Island. The art style grew on me, the puzzles were great and the whole point of the game was to make you feel nostalgic. It was just a rose tinted goggled trip down memory lane and I loved every second of it.
I am happy that there are so many different endings to the game via the post credit scenes, So you get to decide what the secret is, I chose the dialogue "There is no one secret to Monkey Island" Because its going to be different all the time, every game has the secret be different. At the end of the first game when I was a kid I made the connection that Lechuck literally lives in hell, and hell is on Monkey Island. A sentiment that Curse shared with me. But Escape was like "Nah man, monkey mech". 2 had the secret be "It was all a dream" despite not setting foot on Monkey Island in the sequel. Tales sort of hints that 2's ending is canonical because when you kill Lechuck you can hear funfair music amongst the cacophony of noise.
There is no one secret, the secret is the journey you make for yourself as you discover all these solutions and such. People always say the ending to 2 suck but lets be real. Every ending to the MI games kind of blow and Return also pokes fun of this. Monkey Island stories just seem to... end. With not climax at all. The most Climatic Ending we ever got was the first games.
2 just kind of ends with the left hook of the theme park
3 just kind of ends with the marriage of Guybrush and Elaine
4 just kind of ends with Guybrush stuck below a cliff
5 just kind of... ends?
And now this one... just kind of ends again. We don't even get a Lechuck fight this time.
But that's the point, the game was never going to give us an answer, we were Boybrush throughout this scene and Guybrush was Ron literally telling us several times to not think so hard about it and just enjoy the moment and the game ends with Guybrush just... enjoying a moment to himself. Not thinking about much of anything.
Sorry for the long comment, just got a lot on my mind haha.
Completely agree! It was at the same time a wonderful trip down memory lane, and also fresh and a new adventure. Loved it! I think people demanding to know "the real secret" are missing the point completely.
@@chalito8127 Ron Gilbert shouldn't have made a new game if he doesn't have any new ideas.
The Secret of Monkey Island is a different thing to everyone, I suppose. It's not any one thing but it's also not nothing. At least not to me. I'm a relatively new fan but this game emotionally impacted me and I don't know how to explain why it did. Maybe because it was a story told from the heart.
I usually don't leave comments, but this video just deserves one, as it really made me think. My opinion: some secrets should just never be revealed, if you want to keep the mystery alive. And stories may as well be told once and never again. That includes movies and their reboots, prequels and sequels. Thanks for the good work!
No ending would have met your expectations so I made a "subvert your ecpectations" ending because who needs a good endings?
Oh also guybrush is not even a pirate cause the trials didn't count and he destroyed the lives of all his friends, but it doesn't really matter, right?!
I know this video didn't do as well as your other ones on some more popular games, but I just wanted to say that I thought it was really good regardless. Keep up the good work man!
Thank you! I want to make videos on games that matter to me, even if they’re less popular. Very glad it’s appreciated.
I'm a big Monkey Island fan, am curious about how other people experienced Return, and this was an interesting video to watch. Subscribed to your channel for the other videos, though I'll have to play Outer Wilds myself before I watch those.
I had similar feelings. I think that it's creators got older and more serious and their humour also. I loved the previous games (which I met in the early 90-ties on my Amiga) and like them for being so extremely hilarious on every occasion. Humour in RTMI is rather average. One situation from my real life with explain this thing: 10 years ago I was doing a photography display on old-school expired, color film to imitate the past of the 70ties and 80ties. My photographer friend gave me a tip: When making those red/yellow tinted prints (as old pictures do look now) do it extreme, so no one will think that the prints might prove your lack of skill and are meant to look that way. The same thing is withe humour in Monkey Island: do it extreme (totally serious or hillarious), or it will be "so-so" and average...
An excellent essay! Where can I get the music you use in the video? It's awesome! The website you link to doesn't work...
This one is interesting. I loved the way you described "a flash in which you inhabit your old self for a millisecond, like you're discovering it again" - and I think for me the best thing about RtMI was the memories of playing the original game for the first time.
I'd never made the parallel before, but in a way "the secret" is a bit like Twin Peaks...the network forced the creators to reveal Laura's killer and that kind of imploded the show (I still love the second half of the show, but it was essentially a whole new thing). RtMI as a game felt rushed and a bit generic to me, the ending was one of the things I really liked about it though, that it didn't just turn the secret into some big reveal.
I like that analogy! Seems there’s a lot of returning to be done in our media landscape..
This is so spot on, it hit home hard. May aswell have been written by Ron himself. Thank you for this. After 30 years, this video was the ending I needed.
Thank you for conveying this. I've been dealing with this kind of backlash from the fandom for a number of days now and it really soured me. Not on the games of course. RoMI is a great little game and I love it. There are multiple endings and it is ultimately up to you what you make of it. But I loved the ending I picked first, and I plan on replaying it over, and over. Just like I did with the first 2 games.
The series has never taken itself too seriously. But it's easy for people to forget that. Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. Well, maybe 30 now, with inflation.
$35.55 with inflation, which makes RTMI a steal!
It got a lot better when it opened up in the later part of the game
but all in all I got to say: It just wasnt really good.
Well, the Secret of how MI-1/2 fans keep constantly talk about the super-hyper great game they played in their youth, when they were kids, and the nostalgia, and everything - while CONSTANTLY AND COMPLETELY IGNORING THE BEST GAME IN THE SERIES, and in addition to that - the question of what happened with them, during these 30 years: if the "nostalgia", and the yearning for more of this was so strong, why didn't they continue on the road, with the next sequels?! They just waited 30 years, to play... this?!!!
Now, when this MI 1/2 fan mentioned how he was stuck for months on the screen in the pub, without clicking near the edge of it, to make the screen move to the right/left, I finally found the Secret. I'm not very pleased with it, but it's not a surprise, given the worldly human affairs, in a broad philosophical sense. It is something like a closure, now... You just accept it, and move on.
The best one being MI3? Because I would have to agree, it's at least on par with 1, given the era it was released.
"The original took me months to finish"
Yeah that because the old games were full of pixel hunting and above all you weren't used to that kind of puzzle.
The only thing i didn't "like" about the ending, is that there is not a real "faceoff" with LeChuck or Lilia
Not even a little smug on their big"ugly" faces.
But for the rest? I'm really glad I spent 25$ for a computer game.
And thanks to you for this video.
It was mostly because I was a 9yo who didn’t speak the language ;) I think I figured out the sword fighting by blind pattern matching..
Thanks for watching!
Monkey Island 1 and 2 are both in my top 3 adventure games of all time, and I am a big adventure fan. So... I was quite excited for this, to say the least. And the start was just great... wonderful. The end, I liked, it was effective. The rest... but the rest. Was SO boring, humorless, too hellbent on being PC, Murray was utterly uninspired and even the voice acting for him was poor, and I just pretty much disliked it - and I hate the graphics direction. Curse of Monkey Island - which I thought was pretty average - is a lot better than this, and I can't even believe I'm saying that.
i'm also a long fan of the MI series but most ppl expect something new and different from the old ones, but yet still the same. it's not possible.yeah, nostalgia seems to do that to our brain. we all want to relive the old better days, that simply never existed. eitherway RMI was very enjoyable, similar to the style and humor of the previous ones. ppl whining about the graphics and the ending and all that don't understand that the whole mi series is a just silly joke themselfs, created just to make you laugh, but most importantly to not take your self so seriously just like all the characters in the game do. i an era where adventure games are practically dead, this was a nice change.
I'm not an old fan of this series I don't have nostalgia for the series but the ending is still bad. He's also done this type of ending THREE times. The 2nd game. Thimbleweed park and now this.
They build up new characters with the new pirate lords. They make Elaine question if guybrush is a good person after your actions through the game.
The characters are static even with every chance for them to change narratively. The only meta commentary is warnings about "Oh ho ho are you really sure you want what you say you want? You may not like it! Isn't the real treasure the journey? Hey look this guy is enjoying reading this endless book?"
The meta narrative focused endings only serve to make a excuse for a bad ending not because it actually wants to tell us something compelling.
Pathologic did this exceptionally well with its secret ending while having a game with proper endings for many of the narrative strands. The meta narrative also covers topics like making better futures that you won't live in. Respecting foreign beliefs. How authority figures in power care none for those below them.
Monkey island can only make excuses for itself it is shameful.
In fact Gilbert is dissing his own community by saying you weird all day gamers need to wake up and look at life 😁 I think the biggest insult is to tell fans of the series that they are "just playing a game" like people wouldnt know but firing at the critics seems to be serious real legit!
Well said and I'm glad someone said it. The ending is ludicrously trite and self-absorbed. This was a game made for one person: Gilbert.
Glad I spoiled the ending and didn't play it. The art repulsed me to the point I couldn't stomach playing it and seems like it saved me some money and a depressing, pointless 'meta' ending.
@@Sgt_Glory the art style isn't that bad I respect it but yeah I think you're right when you say it was only made for one person. Ron Gilbert. He wanted something he could make to have people get off his back.
@@Sgt_Glory Even seems like Lucas Arts are spending Abos to positive referencing channels! Gilbert already did some like ending in Thimbleweed! The paradoxon here is that Monkey Island was playing all day with real life absurdums inside game like for ex the grog mashine (related to cocacola) and always dissed some popularities to now tell ey guys you need to look around reality? 🤔 Talking about making friends while this game was a solo go where nerds are spending lifetimes in so they probably lose some in real life! Also they act like they wasnt making Guybrush a D nose! I mean who has peaking long nose with the top looking red? With those cartoon graphs its alo to sxualize kids again in a weird way! For me it stopped with 3 and that was a quiet romantic story!
@@winstonsmith3703 well you also have to analyse the fact that the MIs til 3 were mainly hand painted artworks! This one is an all over cpu generated game. Even if we look at modern times the logic is that if we r taking KI graphic designs then you also could produce a more epic work! For ex look at Far cry, that outdoor world is mostly cpu generated as it copies the environment. Return is also based on a cpu generating engine unlike the old MIs where they copied hand made art into software. The rest was enoying pixel programming. So the look is no comparsion and cold versa the old ones!
7h? I played for 12 with the extra dialog you could activate. Don't think it makes that much of a difference though.
I suppose it’s because I played through it pretty hastily. Not sure if that was brought about by the speed of the game itself or just because I didn’t want to fully invest in it.
I don't know, I didn't like how Ron Gilbert AGAIN made an adventure game which set up something compelling only to turn it into some meta bullshit which undermines the whole experience.
If the whole point of Return to Monkey Island is that Monkey Island was a small series which should be moved on from, that it's not something worthy or needing of a serious return to form or continuation - then why make the game?
Even with their myriad issues, I liked how games 3, 4, and 5 decided to continue the series in a more genuine and sincere way. If the series was going to continue at all, if the love that the fans had for the unique charms merited sequels, then the sequels should reflect that earnest desire, not ignore it in the name of meta commentary.
Though maybe this is just me, I loved Monkey Island 1 and 3, but always found 2 to be dreary and cynical to a point where its charms were lost on me.
If i had to put MI into a ranking for me:
1) Curse
2) LeChuck's Revenge
3) Secret
4) Return
5) Escape
6) Tales. (Dunno. For me, a good number of 4's jokes landed better than Tales)
Made difference is when the first 2 games were out, there was no hint book, no Internet, we had to discuss with our friends about what we had solved.
For me, this brings Monkey Island into the 21st century, the devs adapting the game for a modern audience who get bored easily.
Perfect mix of jokes, puzzles, wit, throwbacks.
Only thing that annoyed me was the trivia cards, I didn't realise if you have 7 unanswered ones in your book, new ones stop spawning.
I answered a few, then got a few wrong so foolishly deciced to collect them all before answering
Oooh, thanks for the heads up about the trivia cards!
It wasn't all that different actually. Some magazines published a complete walkthrough for Secret of Monkey Island before others had even reviewed the game. I also remember owning a neat, little cover-mounted paperback guide. We didn't need the internet to cheat.
Technically there was the phone helpline. (And the special phone line for Steven Spielberg, he was calling directly Ron when he was stuck, as far as I remember to have read somewhere)
The resolution was putrid. Second worst after Danganronpa v3, which is impossible to top in the worst ending category.
Yikes. The smug apologism was too much for me. I couldn't finish your video, sorry bro. You lost me at praising the game for being all surface, "and that's a good thing!" lmao
I personally loved the new art style, I actually even loved it more than the first games style. My favourite with always be LeChucks revenge though
The game was crap, simple as that.
People actually expected there to be a Secret? Why does the world keep getting stupider?
Well, it could have been actually something interesting. There are tons of ideas to put, instead of "it was all imagination".
Kung Fu Panda 1 has the "secret ingredient" through all the movie.
You watch the movie and you actually want to know the secret. You expect something. Then, there is something, for real. Not magical, but spiritual.
It was a bit disappointing, but also an actual life lesson, after all.
But here,... Amusement Park.. .again?... After 30 years? Any other idea would have been better.
My eyes are bleeding watching this shit! WHY did they make it look like you are playing with characters from a childrens cardboard book!?
I refuse to play this.
If you get over this initial reaction of yours, you might get to play a game which you'll truly enjoy.
such a let down of a game...too much copy paste, same ending of 2. so whats the point of the game really.
Exactly that is the point!
It's not the same, it's similar. But here you don't even have to accept it. You can go back into the catacombs and get multiple different endings. Anyway, to me, getting the T-shirt is perfect.
@@jeremymullins1294 Better than getting the E-Ticket?
@@jeremymullins1294 You guys are serious bots right? Nobody serious wld write that a T-Shirt ending ld be perfect! The problem with this MI is that they outted Guybrush as boeing worker with a psych. issue. I think Gilbert was jealous that they made more successful MIs without him and let it die so that nobody ld have some more. Just lame!
@@jeremymullins1294 But the T-Shirt is also in Monkey Island 1 when you dig the X. You find the exact same thing.
ua-cam.com/video/V5lMiL_EsKM/v-deo.html
This new game is a deep sh'#t .