I HIGHLY doubt that the two school dark worlds were created by the same person. In Ralsei's first storytime he says that the classroom dark world is much more recent than the other, and the closet dark world is said to be "pure darkness" which is why all of the darkners can stay there.
“I just can’t imagine alphys endangering the lives of children…” *metal crusher slowly fading into the front ground* If Kris was Knight number 1, I doubt the king would talk to Kris the way that he does in game. Edit: Fixed some misspellings.
i'm still personally in the papyrus knight camp, but this is an interesting proposition. it's nice that in preparation for a long development cycle, toby filled chapter 2 with just enough info to keep people theorizing almost 3 years later
Im in the sans helping/sans as a knight theory considering his language in his fight is eerily similar to gasters analysis on the "darker yet darker" experiment. His "readings" of timelines and all that. Sans could theoretically know about undertale somehow and be doing something for once, letting papyrus do alotta the heavy work. Wouldnt be surprised if the final fight would subvert expectations of the Delta Rune symbol where its kris fighting papyrus, sans, and some third party instead of 3 party members against one foe.
Okay, so here's another crazy thought: What if Darkners aren't actually all that determined by the appearance they take from the environment in which their Dark World is opened? Jevil correctly predicts Queen's appearance, but does that really mean he knew the next Dark Fountain would be opened in the computer lab? What if Queen was fated to appear in the next Dark World regardless of where it was opened, and she'd just have taken a different form if it was somewhere else? Like, say whoever opened the computer lab's Dark Fountain had opened it in Asgore's flower shop or in the police station instead. What if Queen would have still been there, just in a different form than as a living computer motherboard, because her appearance in the next dark world was predetermined, just not the exact _form_ of her appearance? After all, Queen is an archetype, no? The archetype of the universal mother. So she could have taken a different shape, depending on the environment.
I'm really excited to see how Ch 3 will habdle Kris opening a dark world is it gonna be kept a secret? is Kris gonna be just straightforwards and admit to it like they're admitting to eating the leftover jello on the fridge? I think itd be extremly funny if Kris is willing to admit but Susie panics and tries her hardest to keep it a secret and tries to overact whenever Ralsei shows up and fial msierably at acting like Kris definetly did NOT open the dark world .. extra funny points if Ralsei falls for it
Alternatively, Ralsei already knows Kris opened Chapter 3's fountain, possibly because he told them to while we were watching Susie and Noelle be cute and gay in a Ferris Wheel.
@kylemarkley7170 I mean fair that's possible, but that wouldn't be as funny :c UNLESS its a mastermind act so we dont suspect this was all according to plan... meaning that we AND Susie are completly out of the loop lmao
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard I honestly think that is a real possibility! It'd be very interesting to me if that were to come true, as that would make us kind of on the same "side" as Susie in terms of how much we know about what Kris (and Ralsei) are up to by opening this specific dark world. Exciting to think about! :)
i've posted about this once on tumblr, but my line of thinking is less about identifying who talks about who, but nore about who has the most influence over the will defined in the dark world. like in Undertale where the one with the most determination can warp time backwards but still having to deal with the problem of some retaining partial memories as dejà vú, like Alphys feeling like she met an old friend during a second playthrough. in Deltarune, the will of its creator determines its main narrative, and what is possible is determined by memories and things on the back of one's memory, not fully in the control of the knight's influence, like how NEO may have as well been left by Mettaton in a common folder like the default in the paint program, which could explain Noelle having vague memories of it. the main evidences for this is the odd amount of physical influence she has to the area directly whenever she's on screen, such as her encounters with the ferris wheel or how when she talks or focuses on something and seems to zone out or get distracted, the area bends to her thoughts, like a puzzle solution forming "ILOVEMICE" in line with her facing her fears, or even the December trail changing sillouettes in obscured areas, or how literally everything in that dark world revolves not just on the theme of computers alone, but specifically tech-savyness, as marked by the mere presence of the cursor guy, the method of dealing with Virovirokun, the way that Queen displays her thought processes, Spamton's keygen and Rouxls Kaard commiting software piracy by copying and fixing up the Thrash Machine directly by themself. and visually, an evidence that there may be more than one Knight is that dark fountains are not formed in the same way. so far we have seen in three separate occasions, a dark fountain in its early life, a dark fountain being formed as a single cylindrical beam of light, and a dark fountain being formed in the form of a pressurized bright gas before forming up the darkening smoke. two points where a third would make it statistically significant.
I have and will continue to be completely confident that Berdly made the library dark word. In the spelling bee cutscene, Berdly says that he wanted to create a world for him and Noelle, and given that pretty much the only requirement for making a fountain is for a lightner to put their will into a blade -easily a pencil in this case- Berdly could have accidentally made the fountain when thinking about his world with Noelle.
Interesting idea, but I feel like Berdly or Noelle or someone would make some comment on the fountain forming if that was the case. Not to say it couldn't be true, of course.
In my opinion, the idea that there are multiple Knights requires much more evidence than just "It's technically possible." I'd find it more believable if the game was more vague about the Knight's true nature, but the game always uses the title "THE Knight." The burden of proof falls on those who argue there's more than one. Not to mention, a lot of the arguments trying to defend multiple Knights are a lot of what-if scenarios. What if Jevil was lying or wrong, what if King told Queen about the Knight, etc. There's not much actual evidence supporting those ideas to be the case. I will say though, if every chapter does turn out to have a different Knight, I'd find it most compelling if they were Deltarune's counterparts to the seven fallen humans. This assumes Kris is the Deltarune counterpart to Frisk, Chara, or both. Logically, it is unlikely, but again, I find it a cool idea.
Quite. It also assumes cosmology involving the Dark World always existing, even without fountains. When I argued with Craftymint, I was entirely unconvinced of the arguments for that theory, given how it's said to have created the darkners. Before the sweepstakes I thought the history of the DW was retroactively created when the fountain opened based on the history of the objects, but now I am not quite sure. Sadly this video assumes it without evidence for it.
A lot of Knight Theories like to use “It would have be cool” as its evidence, especially with Kris Knight. It’s as likely as Kris’s knight and would also be cool.
@@WhiteCresentKnight kris knight has the most evidence out of every candidate but the fandoms just way too much in denial that the reveal was so early so they cant accept it lol Im personally keeping my money on kris until chapter 3 releases, if toby then reveals they ARENT the knight and bring up some good story juice with it that doesnt make the evidence seem like he changed his mind, then ill be pleasantly surprised
I think this is spiritually true in that there aren't multiple knights, but multiple wannabe knights, which is how the roaring can remain a threat even when the knight isn't around to cause it
I absolutely love this premise, I've been saying this/pulling together a case for it for a while. To help patch some of the gaps in it/make it a bit less of a "but what if X thing was true?" thing, I really like the idea that the Knight/Angel are specifically roles in a/the prophecy, and that multiple people being "knights" is just multiple people fulfilling light world/dark world prophecies. This solves a very confusing part of Deltarune's current writing, which is why both "The Knight" and "The Angel" exist, despite what we know about them indicating that they're gonna fill the exact same role, which is effectively "someone who makes dark fountains". The thing about those two roles, and arguably the only real difference between what we know about them, is that no one mentions both: The Knight is exclusively talked about by Darkners, and the Angel is exclusively talked about by lightners (and Ralsei, a character who's clearly set apart from other Darkners in a bunch of ways). As extensions of this, the game puts forward two different apocalyptic events, these being the Roaring and the Angel's Heaven, which are redundant as two names for the same thing/two parts of the same event but could easily be two sides of the same event, seen from the point of view of Darkners and Lightners respectively. This solves a bunch of weird plot inconsistencies that are otherwise very difficult to reason out: Notably, Queen inexplicably knowing the Knight as the Knight despite never meeting them, The Knight acting totally differently in how they treated the first dark world (explicitly meddling in things) and the second dark world (immediately leaving, not talking to anyone), and the fact that Kris making a fountain at the end of chapter 2 soft confirming there being multiple people making fountains (unless you think Kris is the knight, which is fair to think). Narratively, making the Knight/Angel a role that one grows to fill instead of a guy who calls themself the Knight/the Angel is a slam dunk, and it goes perfectly with questions of free will/the ability to make decisions in life. For one example of this sort of thing Imagine an antagonistic arc for Noelle, a character that has a shit ton of angel foreshadowing but absolutely could not have made the first two chapters' dark fountains, who, hearing Alvin's sermons about the angel, seeks to "overcome fate" through the creation of dark fountains to save Rudy or find Dess, in the process both trying to defy the destined fates of Dess/Rudy AND actively contributing to creating a destiny where she fails. (for an example of making fountains being tied to challenging fate, see Queen referencing the "power of the will... of determination..." being what's needed to make a fountain, next to Ralsei's referencing of the soul as containing "Not only... one's will and compassion... but... also... the power to DETERMINE FATE.")
Cant wait for Rudy in ch3 epilogue to say something like "sorry noelle! I thought yesterday was saturday, but thats today! I will go to church tomorrow"
So, the Roaring Knight could be a Revolving Door ? The Dark World's could be different Imaginary worlds that link together due to People becoming open about their Imagination
If there are multiple knights. Kris is obviously knight #2 Chapter 1's ending was literally a hint for it, and at the beginning of chapter 2 we see something notable changed/moved around. The TV is plugged in, the pie is eaten. Both of these set up chapter 2's ending perfectly and the ending itself recontextualizes the opening (the opening tries to play off the ending of chapter 1 as a joke, the ending of chapter 2 flips that on its head, it wasn't a joke.) Berdly and Noelle fell into the library dark fountain the same way Kris and Susie did in chapter 1. Its also implied that the Knight DID NOT make Castle Town's fountain. Another thing to note is that the Knight most likely did not enter card kingdom. The only dark fountain we can actually leave is Castle Town, which is special among fountains. Ralsei states the only way for Kris and Susie to get home is via sealing the fountain. The Knight could have simply moved objects around before making the fountain. We also know from the anniversary stream that Toby oddly specifies that the "Fountain" made King act strange. As for future Fountain creators, Noelle seems like the pretty obvious choice in the normal route. However in the weird route she is terrified of dark fountains.
I thought the knight was a manifestation of ‘the night’ i.e. their dreams/nightmares making them re-open the creative ‘worlds’ they ‘made’ as kids (for the schoolroom, the library, and the videogames; early teens for the cryptos like ice-e to take stuff; and adults maybe re: the not-lord of the rings book and religion) real again. They’re dark worlds, they want to cover everything in night forever, we go into the worlds by sleeping in the beds etc. It’s their subconscious - particularly Kris who’s tried to crush all their creative outputs since they assumed they caused the monster (ice-e?) to become real and it took Dess. (I’m assuming Gaster is just a videogame character brought via magic to life in his ‘world’, fell for Dess who also loved him, tried to reach her across the worlds, get to hers or bring her into his own yadayadayada love being creative and your worlds but also don’t fall into them too deeply and forget to live, sapsapsap). Or maybe I’m misreading the whole thing lol. But I assume it’s about creating stories that become real so dreams/nightmares leading to worlds feels legit. We see a ‘sleepwalking’ Kris open one after all.
2:56 love the delivery on this line ^u^ cool vid also im now realizing that if the CH3 fountain was opened by Kris, and he isnt the Roaring Knight who opened the fountains of CH1+2, then it means by default that there is more than one knight. i could be wrong. still a good chance that the first 2 fountains were opened by the same person. there is a possiblity that the ch4 fountains and beyond could be opened by others
It could also be a single knight, yet the actions of the knight spark more people to open their own dark worlds. I really like the idea of multiple different characters opening their own dark worlds from a story perspective. Besides, the roaring would probably require many dark worlds to be open at once, wouldn't it?
1:41 I do not think this necessarily means that the Knight ever communicated with King directly. It is implied that when a dark fountain is created, they impose their will into the blade that creates it. This likely has the effect that all darkners under its domain are affected by that very will, and feel a sort of natural intent towards completing it. That does not, however, mean that they can't CHANGE their mind if the will of another is to persuade them.
That doesn't make sense, the Sweet Cap'n Cakes completely oppose the Queen, who's acting on the Knight's behalf. She also has to brainwash every single Plug character because they don't want to serve her
01:3301:47 I always see this assumption everywhere, that The Knight personally talked to the King or smth along those lines, but this can literally be boiled down to King just making assumptions because of his hatred for the lightners, like how Queen "Was Just Guessing Based Off The Knight's Actions"
it wouldn't make sense for the knight to be several people if Toby Fox planned to make an animation of him looking down a flight of stairs. The knight is definitely a single entity
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard Do you REALLY think Toby would just randomly change his mind since then? It's one (and the most prominent) of the biggest mysteries in the series, so you'd think Toby wouldn't want to change that in his magnum opus on which he worked on for years.
@huskadog7748 Wdym? Toby could have changed his idea on how he was going to go about the Knight, it'd just be revealed that the Knight wasn't a singular individual but a title given to anyone who opens a Dark Fountain instead for example, it doesn't mean the idea is scralped all together, it's just changed
First thing: The King has never called the Knight ‘The Roaring Knight’, only Queen and Susie has ever used that title (Susie said it after hearing it from Queen). You can check Deltarune’s dialogue dump online (Ctrl F for Roaring Knight). So that epithet seems to be unknown by the King, as he has never used it. Second: Seam never said that the Knight locked the three Kings away. He only says that the Knight appeared, three of the kings got locked away, and the last King put ‘him and his son into power’ (considering that the Knight has only ever been referred to as by gender neutral terms like it and they, this him can only be referring to either the Spade King himself or Rouxls Kaard. Seam never states who locked the other kings away. The three Kings themselves don’t give much more, only stating that ‘but when the Knight arrived, everything changed…’ It’s really vague. Sure there’s a clear cause and effect relationship being set up with the Knight appearing and the kings getting locked away, but the game purposely doesn’t make it clear how that happened. Toby Fox said on stream that the reason King’s personality changed to be more violent and protect his fountains was because he stepped into the fountain (presumably Queen and other chapter bosses did the same). So the cause and effect scenario could be the Knight appeared, King stepped into the fountain and changed, the knight locked the other kings away through force or trickery, and locked the other Kings away. Also Queen never makes mention that there were any other dark fountains made elsewhere in her speech about the Knight, as it seems she assumes that the Knight stopped making more fountains so that’s why she’s trying to create a new knight to do so.
To me the answer to who is the Knight is simple: who ever expressed the will to destroy the world? Chara. Case closed. Now of course this would only apply to Knight 1 and 2, especially 2 since the knife we see is THE symbol for Chara, Knight 3 is Kris, and the rest we don't know yet... Alvin and Noelle are decent guesses for the next ones, while I think Rouxls, Papyrus and Undyne will be used as decoys And because I'm bored here are predictions for next chapters: - 3: Toriel's House, will feature Mike and Tenna (obviously) and we will see Toriel and Undyne in that dark world. That dark world was created by Kris because they feel lonely and believe it's the only way for them to spend time with their mother and best friend. Maybe they are looking for a way to get free from the Player. The theme of son/mother/TV + toxic relationship could have some similarities to The Binding of Isaac, though this is pure hypothesis at this point. - 4: Church, a dark world created by Calvin's hammer for religious purposes. About Calvin, note that his name is likely based on John Calvin, a Christian leader who believed in predestination: some people are BORN good, others are BORN evil, there is NO FREE WILL (Luther would have similar yet less extreme ideas on this); free will being one of the core themes of Deltarune the reference is almost certain. Now the Roaring is some sort of Apocalypse, and Calvin didn't state his views on that topic, but unlike Luther he did not publicly express doubt on the authenticity of that book ("I cannot feel that the Holy Spirit has written it"). EDIT: WAIT A MINUTE HE'S CALLED ALVIN NOT CALVIN EDIT 2: HOWEVER I just discovered something called "Alvin Plantinga's Free-Will Defense" in the context of philosophy. So Alvin is pro-free-will while Calvin is a determinist... there's something to do here isn't there - 5: Town Hall, featuring Noelle's mother. This dark world was created by Noelle who wanted to bring back her dead father and absent mother. Note that Noelle is somewhat based on Jesus so that could have a link with Alvin as well. - 6: Flower Shop, a dark world created by Kris to bring back their parents together (Asgore is shown to still love Toriel), perhaps inspired by Noelle or would inspire Noelle later. They would also try to bring back Asriel, who would be represented by Flowey. - 7: The Bunker, something to do with Gaster I guess? Maybe Sans and Papyrus finally get a purpose in the game.
theres definitely foreshadowing that the Asgore's Flower shop might be a dark world at some point, so i have a feeling asgore might be one of the knights, and he would do it out of grief
The "Roaring Knight" could be a mythological/religious figure like the Angel, representing the person who is destined to cause the Roaring (so they would be serving the Angel by bringing the Angel's heaven, like a knight would serve their monarch) and King and Queen are confused because they think the person who opened their dark worlds is the person prophesied to cause the Roaring. If the three heroes are mentioned in a prophecy, it would make sense for their opponent, the Knight, to be too.
"i just can't imagine alphys willfully endangering the lives of children" she was reanimating corpses in her basement in undertale dog what do you mean
MY LORD. SHATTERED INTO PIECES. MY KNIGHT. SHATTERING INTO EVEN MORE PIECES. SPREADING THE DARKNESS IN ANY FORM. VESSELS. CREATING. MORE OF OUR KIND. BOTH. CREATING A PURE. AND DARKER YET DARKER. FUTURE FOR US. (Think of Various Knights it's quite difficult, but, like the video!)
Also, regarding the idea of bringing Dust to a DarkWorld, i would really like to see something so twisted like a type of amalgamate if this gets to happen, or something related to a melting darkner monster vision or something terrifying like that (would fit for a Chapter 5-7)
The only thing that makes me disagree with this theory is the fact that the King in chapter 1 talks about meeting the knight. We know that the knight is at least 1 entity. To narrow it down even more, Roulx Kard and Queen both give a similar description of the knight, (btw, there isn't a lot of description of the knight) which lets us infer it is in fact only 1 person.
Firstly, great video! If I were to try to come up with a multi knight theory, I'd have it so that there is a cult secretly operating in the town. Deltarune dips into a lot of the ground of eldritch horror. Knowledge of the world driving people mad, the futility of our actions, reality coming undone, and things being better off buried are all common themes of the genre. And under that lens, a cult works well. Alvin and the mayor would be great candidates for that. It can even explain why Queen and King are mixed up. When a cultist made the fountains they would probably male their declaration verbally not textual. So King and Queen heard "Roaring Knight" when really what was being said was "Roaring Night." Yes, this theory I don't believe in even has a name for the cult, "The Roaring Night." I do not put it past Toby Fox to hide something so important inside a pun. I feel Gaster is not the knight regardless of if there are one or multiple knights. In eldritch horror, the cults are often trying to commune with a higher being. Gaster wouldn't be a member but rather the being they're trying to commune with for whatever reason. Maybe that's what Spamton meant when he said, "speaking of communion."
I *love* this! What small town story wouldn't be complete without some secret cult? Maybe another piece that could lead to a secret cult is that Catti's husband doesn't have an arm! Maybe he lost it in some sort of ritual? (Plus bratty's siblings always hide in the house, not sure if that could link to anything but it is kinda weird) Or maybe the cult is why dess went missing? Like, what if she found out about it because of her interests with Mysteries and cryptids (maybe the mayor is in on it?) and they had to get rid of her so that nobody would find out (probably using the bunker) and maybe Kris saw what happened, and that's why they're scared of the bunker? Maybe even that creature that scared the dog bandits is linked to it somehow, like either they created it or they use it as some sort of guard dog (or both) Or, (just speculating) what if the creature is actually ice-e? Anyway, i'm rambling, but who knows! But I *love* a good cult storyline! That would make things *very* interesting (ha ha) if that *is* what toby is doing.
Kris can’t be knight number 1 because he’s enemy number 1 to the chaos king. And king loves the knight. It seems much more likely that the knight has something against kris in particular, than them being kris. After all he doesn’t refer to kris as lightner, he refers to them as light bringer, a special title just for kris. Though kris could still open dark world 2.
I think there already *is* a dark world in the bunker. Think about it, we're sure that Gaster is in the bunker. If you call in a dark world, mus_smile.ogg plays. What did Gaster use to contact Spamton? *A phone.*
The discarded vessel will definitely appear as something significant in a later chapter, though I'm not entirely convinced it'll be the knight. Currently, I think it'll be that during chapter 7, the roaring titans will first appear as twisted versions of the party, with the discarded vessel being Kris' counterpart.
@@overforest1195 I think its the discarded vessel. That's the only one that makes sense to me and why spamton was stopped when trying to talk about it.
Not really tbh. If that was the case, atleast the Darkners would know about this. Yet we know that barely anyone ever even talks about the concept of a Knight or even after hearing about it, knowing what that is. Despite the fact that a Knight would technically be their god. For Seam to not even know that "Knight" was a term (he says "strange knight", uncapitalised, implying he doesn't know anything about such a title or term), would be extremely weird, if it was a normal known term that anyone in any dark world just knows.
This isnt exactly related, but I think kris being the knight in chapter 3 will be very interesting. Its been seen that those who create the dark worlds are held in high regards by the darkners that live in said dark worlds, so im hoping that kris gets a lot of praise and attention from them. We see that kris’ side of the room is very blank, no trophies or memorabilia. I think they would want to open a dark world for some semblance of attention (maybe) A lot of people dont seem to have good reasoning for opening the dark world, but I see two clear explanations. One, they want to be in control (as shown at the end of chapter 2, they take their soul out in order to conduct activities they wouldnt be able to do with the player controlling them) and the second reason being more attention from their adoptive mother and the ability to be praised by the darkners in the world that they created Thats all i have :3
While I love the Mettaton theory, I think maybe the suit was designed by Asriel - there’s a file on his desktop with a description a lot like the body Spamton NEO uses. Awesome theory video, I love how you strung it all together and fit the pieces so well!
16:04 “Because my insides are red and yours are too and the red on my face is matching you and goodness you’re bleeding what a wonderful feeling you’re down and you’re pleading my head is just dealing the red means I love you tasting your blood means I love you”
Funny that I thought of this theory yesterday... and here you are today with this video. P.S. after watching the video: about misdirecting the audience, just remember Chara. Although to be fair that one isn't that far of a leap of logic: if you pay enough attention, you'd notice that the human in the intro has one stripe and Frisk has multiple stripes (two in game, many in the cover art). The theory I came up with yesterday is pretty much the individual knights combine to make one big knight in the end, with the appearance of a chess knight. It could be that the knight was originally one whole individual, whose SOUL fragmented into several pieces, one of which is the red SOUL that then somehow possesses Kris. (Perhaps the other fragments has the color of the other Undertale SOULs, who knows?) Some of the other pieces could call themselves "the knight“, leading Jevil and some others to use the singular when talking about the knight.
note that one toby fox quote where he said he was planning to have the knight shown at the top of the stairs in the game intro, this probably means theres only one knight
Another option would be that the Knight is a non-corporeal entity that possesses Lightners to open Dark Fountains, similar to the player possessing Kris. That way, there would be both a single Knight, as well as multiple vessels to open the Dark Fountains with.
This would just be way too much. I do think that anyone that makes a fountain is the knight but it's just Kris, Susie and Noelle. They're the 3 people used as examples by Queen for how anyone could make a fountain, and all 3 of them and only them get called really wonderful by Gaster in the opening. Both very obvious foreshadowing.
17:30 what if Kris wants to make Undyne's job less boring? They literally made a crime scene out of their house: slashed tires and open door. Those were not necessary steps to make a dark world. When talking to Undyne we can select the option "Dark World" which Kris seems to willingly tell Undyne about once prompted. So maybe Kris wants to make a crime scene for the police to investigate and end up in a dark world?
there's one knight. he is gaster. the man who smiles and gives us the egg behind that tree is papyrus. egg is mentioned in papyrus's fight. it's an acronym for responsibility or it's just an easter egg. redacted is dess, trapped in the void.
I'm still thinking that the "Roaring Knight" is gonna be revealed to be the "vessel" we created at the beginning of Chapter 1. But of course I'm open to seeing others' theories. It's all so fun and interesting to see what the fan base can think up.
my crack theory that I believe in whole heartedly is that we haven't even heard of/met them yet. not in undertale OR deltarune. an original deltarune character we have neither MET or HEARD OF we're not even halfway through deltarune. we hear about them in ch3 and we meet them formally in ch4 where they're around the scene of the dark fountain but also a bunch of other knight suspects are there too to mislead people.
What if knight opens worlds for ppl with desires? If Kris is the knight then he probably knows a lot about ppl living in the town, and what they really want.
One thing of note is: do we even actually know if a single person can create more than one Fountain? It's entirely possible that a Fountain's given Dark World represents the full extent of how far that one person's will can stretch. (Also, does Toby Fox care about Occam's Razor?) Also, as an aside, why do I think Queen and Spade King/Jevil likely know/know of each other? Well, Queen is the laptop and what is one of the most common programs that come preloaded on computers? Solitaire. Relationships between objects or concepts in the Light World may be able to form transitive relationships between Dark World denizens. One detail that may support my thought is characters like Spamton being communicated with from a distance, possibly by someone keeping their hands clean of making the Fountains themselves (may or may not be Gaster). Someone could still be engineering situations where various other people decide to create Fountains because this mastermind is either; saving their one chance to make their own Fountain for the end when it really matters, or already spent their one chance on creating the first Fountain (in which case would be where they learned enough about how they function to know how to get other people to make more for them). My best guesses to who has created the Fountains, if everyone can only ever make one: #0: The first Fountain seems to be much older and potentially already visited by Kris before, so there's a good chance someone related to them created it and spent time together with Kris in it. So, Asriel is the most likely for that scenario, but it could also be someone more unexpected like one of his parents, or maybe someone else closer to to Kris's age (or at least was in the same school building in different grades and playing hooky from classes in the closet) that now dismisses their time spent there as nothing more than childhood make believe like Kris may have done before being confronted with it again. Something along these lines would explain Kris's reaction to the Dark Door, if the Dark World is something they're familiar with in the past, but is connected to memories of better times with someone that are no longer so simple? Or, since Dess had to get lost somewhere, maybe it was in her own personal Dark World (and that's the only one we know of existing before the events of the story, though might be a SLIGHT chance others have been opened and already closed before)? #1: Unused classroom: Narratively, this will likely follow the who-done-it hook of it probably being someone who was in that classroom before Kris arrived that day, and that knew of Susie's chalk eating habit? Maybe you dismiss Alphys too quickly, since we know her personality allows her the capacity to manipulate other people to cope with her frustrations with her own life. As far as can be told, the returning characters from Undertale have been typecasted into roles where their personalities can play into similar but remixed contexts. ...Though there's a good chance it's one of the other teens. I'd eliminate everyone who went to the Cyberworld, but just no evidence to really point at one of the remaining suspects. Wild guess Temmie. #2: Library Computer Lab: maybe it doesn't have to be clever and mysterious at all? Annoying Dog was in there the previous day working on chapter 2, he caused the traffic jam, and was hanging out around that Dark World as you explored it, so maybe it is just as simple as Cyberworld belonging to that in-game character? It'd also be rather silly and cheeky if Temmie's and Toby's avatars were the ones to get the ball rolling on the story, being the lead creatives of the game. (Side note, wonder if the rest of the team with get direct cameos at some point?) #♾: Chapter 3 seems to be set up to inform more people about the Dark Worlds once again, so as that information spreads, more people could be tempted to create their own? Even if those who've visited don't intend it, that knowledge could spread from them, becoming a local rumor, a urban legend that people start to test out. The context of a small town setting could become quite relevant. Anyone could be a Knight going forward. And there's no promise the number of Dark Worlds we deal with will be equal to the number of chapters. Could be fewer or could be more, of varying sizes to explore. ...Instead of guessing "which" locations across town may become Dark Worlds, maybe we should focus on guessing "what" each location could end up being? Church, Diner, Flower Shop, Hospital, Noel's House, Police Station, government office, Alphys's dirty alley, the river, SansMart, any other home, another classroom, the graveyard even (better hope we don't have to deal with a Dark World for the pizza place)? Also, as suspect as it is, the Bunker might never be a proper Dark World, and instead be a different type of plot point, one in the middle somewhere that shifts the plot's momentum? There's almost certainly a point in the story where things will start getting out of hand, cause only ever getting one new Fountain at a time doesn't seem too likely to threaten the Roaring.
15:42 Yeah, honestly, I feel like this will probably get expanded upon, or even used. Undertale taught us about a monster's dust covering an object infusing their essence into it. Undertale also taught us that determination can animate the inanimate. What else does that? Dark Fountains. An ordinary jack of spades playing card is brought to life as Lancer, a stuffed cat toy brought to life as Seam, etc. Like, it's almost too perfect, right? We have all the pieces in place to facilitate bringing life to that which is not alive. What happens if you create a dark world in a cemetery? I suspect that we will see someone resurrected from the dead in a future chapter. Perhaps that resurrection may even be the motivating reason behind creating that dark world.
Whilst I like the theory of metaton opening the computer lab world to find his body, I feel like him giving up after a day (since the day before it was Toby in there working on the game in CH1) despite being a ghost (assuming so since haven’t actually seen him in this universe) and being able phase through walls and floors isn’t too convincing. Plus, interacting with the closet after CH2s dark world makes a comment on something about a whole person fitting in there, along with Noelle and berdley at the desk, it’s assumed that they hid in the closet and opened the world after the two have already entered, so it couldn’t have been metaton opening it if we gave him the benefit of the doubt of taking a whole night till mid day to find his body before Kris and Susie arrive. That’s just my thoughts, I could be wrong about some things - but talking to metaton and how sad he is in this world really breaks my heart :(
I think Susie is going to open a dark world in her own house to escape from her abusive home. This can be slotted instead of Undyne because remember, Deltarune is not a sequel. A character like Undyne already had all the time to shine and Susie's abusive household hasn't been used in the story. Regardless I think Susie and Noelle will open dark worlds even if theres only one knight.
Hear me out, Noelle's Dad will be a Knight in the future. Kris didn't open the door to trick Undyne into the Dark World he opened the door to spill the Dark World into the town. If I'm correct then Noelle's Dad will have vitality in this opposite land, and maybe before he dies cause obviously this is being set up for a future event maybe he will remember his time with his daughter in the dark world and he will open it to get one more day with her. Also how else can he take Ralsei to the town carnival? OBVIOUSLY he opened the door so he could have the power of fluffy boys again.
i've had this idea in my head since chapter 2, i don't really believe it but i interesting story could be made with multiple knights or with a guild of knights
This is literally the same theory i had. I don’t think it’s the case because I think it’s supposed to follow the same chess theme (king, queen, knight, etc), but It’s definitely a thing toby would do.
I do believe right now in the story there is just one Roaring Knight, but there's a chance Noelle could create a Dark World in the future. Considering Angel's Heaven is depicted as a Dark Fountain, Rudy's death on the horizon, Spamton's constant description of Noelle as [Angel] and other related events in the Weird Route, there's lots of evidence pointing to this being the big plot point before the Roaring. As for a dust infused object, I see no reason it wouldn't imbue the objects with the mind of that monster. Dark Fountains are made with Determination, so it stands to reason that Darkners are operating under similar rules as Flowey with the major difference being the determination isn't self-sustaining so the Darkner must be bathed in their Dark Fountain's determination to remain alive. The only thing I have yet to figure out is why only Flowey lacks emotions but Darkners seemingly do.
Me personally I believe theres 3 Knights, with my definition of a Knight being someone who has intentionality created at least 2 dark fountains 1: The progenitor knight, Gerson or Gaster. The one who made the closet fountain, and perhaps the bunker fountain which may also make them responsible for Dess's disappearance 2: THE KNIGHT (or perhaps Roaring Knight), the one who acts as the main villain and gets a super cool boss fight eventually. I believe to be Alvin, Papyrus, or Mayor Holiday 3: Kris_Knight.jpg, Kris made 2 dark fountains. Since they didnt make the school or library ones, the one they 95% certainly made at the end of chapter 1 is still unaccounted for
It's an interesting fact that Ralsei says that The Darkners's purpose is to serve the lightners, and in a way, that sort of is what King was doing by serving the Knight
lets just hope there arent 14 knights, also known as
a fortknight
Or worse... Five knights
@@gamingdudedonal3312fivenight
@@zetarightfrd
@@Qwerka ies
@@gamingdudedonal3312Five knights at ice'ez
Maybe the real knight was the friends we made along the way
Lmao we made the same joke at the same time
Fuck that'd technically be accurate
Canon
Plausible theory
You were faster then me
There's no Knight There's a whole ARMY.
Little did the fun gang know they didint have to fight the knight they had to fight the entire chessboard
I HIGHLY doubt that the two school dark worlds were created by the same person. In Ralsei's first storytime he says that the classroom dark world is much more recent than the other, and the closet dark world is said to be "pure darkness" which is why all of the darkners can stay there.
Another reason why they can all stay there is because it’s a storage closet, nothings out of place in a storage closet
@@ThisIsAHandle-xz5yoholy sh*t
@@ThisIsAHandle-xz5yo I never realized that before, but you are absolutely right.
@@ThisIsAHandle-xz5yo omggh
“I just can’t imagine alphys endangering the lives of children…”
*metal crusher slowly fading into the front ground*
If Kris was Knight number 1, I doubt the king would talk to Kris the way that he does in game.
Edit: Fixed some misspellings.
Plus, the scrapped intro means that for much of development the Knight was visually distinct from the Fun Gang. I strongly doubt Kris is the Knight
Flowey: NOOOOOO, THE GAMES LORE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SIMPLE!!!!
The Seven Deltarune Theories:
Seven million if chapters 3 and 4 dont come out soon
i'm still personally in the papyrus knight camp, but this is an interesting proposition. it's nice that in preparation for a long development cycle, toby filled chapter 2 with just enough info to keep people theorizing almost 3 years later
Im in the sans helping/sans as a knight theory considering his language in his fight is eerily similar to gasters analysis on the "darker yet darker" experiment. His "readings" of timelines and all that. Sans could theoretically know about undertale somehow and be doing something for once, letting papyrus do alotta the heavy work. Wouldnt be surprised if the final fight would subvert expectations of the Delta Rune symbol where its kris fighting papyrus, sans, and some third party instead of 3 party members against one foe.
Do you genuinely think the King would respect the knight if they were Papyrus?
ain't that a joke theory?
@@aaaaaaaaaaaaa-b6wyou don't respect Papyrus!?
Okay, so here's another crazy thought:
What if Darkners aren't actually all that determined by the appearance they take from the environment in which their Dark World is opened?
Jevil correctly predicts Queen's appearance, but does that really mean he knew the next Dark Fountain would be opened in the computer lab? What if Queen was fated to appear in the next Dark World regardless of where it was opened, and she'd just have taken a different form if it was somewhere else? Like, say whoever opened the computer lab's Dark Fountain had opened it in Asgore's flower shop or in the police station instead. What if Queen would have still been there, just in a different form than as a living computer motherboard, because her appearance in the next dark world was predetermined, just not the exact _form_ of her appearance?
After all, Queen is an archetype, no? The archetype of the universal mother. So she could have taken a different shape, depending on the environment.
I buy that
It's a possibility, but I personally don't really like it that much. Queen's an archetype of the universal mother cuz of the *mother*board, after all?
That's actually a really cool idea
Isn’t the chapters based off some weird chess rule?
1 King, 2 Queen, 3 Rook???
@@GIitchMin We don't know that for 100% certain but it's very likely that that's the case
There is no easter bunner
There is no tooth fairy
and there is no roaring knight
he's the knight, he's the knight, you're the knight, i'm the knight!!! is there any other knights i should know about?!
The annoying dog: woof
It could be anyone in this very room!!
@@Jacoboy27 ...I'm outta here 🙄
I'm really excited to see how Ch 3 will habdle Kris opening a dark world
is it gonna be kept a secret?
is Kris gonna be just straightforwards and admit to it like they're admitting to eating the leftover jello on the fridge?
I think itd be extremly funny if Kris is willing to admit but Susie panics and tries her hardest to keep it a secret and tries to overact whenever Ralsei shows up and fial msierably at acting like Kris definetly did NOT open the dark world
.. extra funny points if Ralsei falls for it
Alternatively, Ralsei already knows Kris opened Chapter 3's fountain, possibly because he told them to while we were watching Susie and Noelle be cute and gay in a Ferris Wheel.
@kylemarkley7170 I mean fair that's possible, but that wouldn't be as funny :c UNLESS its a mastermind act so we dont suspect this was all according to plan... meaning that we AND Susie are completly out of the loop lmao
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard I honestly think that is a real possibility! It'd be very interesting to me if that were to come true, as that would make us kind of on the same "side" as Susie in terms of how much we know about what Kris (and Ralsei) are up to by opening this specific dark world. Exciting to think about! :)
Oh my god this is so funny I’m sad I don’t believe it
i've posted about this once on tumblr, but my line of thinking is less about identifying who talks about who, but nore about who has the most influence over the will defined in the dark world. like in Undertale where the one with the most determination can warp time backwards but still having to deal with the problem of some retaining partial memories as dejà vú, like Alphys feeling like she met an old friend during a second playthrough.
in Deltarune, the will of its creator determines its main narrative, and what is possible is determined by memories and things on the back of one's memory, not fully in the control of the knight's influence, like how NEO may have as well been left by Mettaton in a common folder like the default in the paint program, which could explain Noelle having vague memories of it. the main evidences for this is the odd amount of physical influence she has to the area directly whenever she's on screen, such as her encounters with the ferris wheel or how when she talks or focuses on something and seems to zone out or get distracted, the area bends to her thoughts, like a puzzle solution forming "ILOVEMICE" in line with her facing her fears, or even the December trail changing sillouettes in obscured areas, or how literally everything in that dark world revolves not just on the theme of computers alone, but specifically tech-savyness, as marked by the mere presence of the cursor guy, the method of dealing with Virovirokun, the way that Queen displays her thought processes, Spamton's keygen and Rouxls Kaard commiting software piracy by copying and fixing up the Thrash Machine directly by themself.
and visually, an evidence that there may be more than one Knight is that dark fountains are not formed in the same way. so far we have seen in three separate occasions, a dark fountain in its early life, a dark fountain being formed as a single cylindrical beam of light, and a dark fountain being formed in the form of a pressurized bright gas before forming up the darkening smoke. two points where a third would make it statistically significant.
Star walker is the knight
Knighting on my deltarune til I roar
what.......
I thought the title was "The Roaring Knight" because it's a knight of - or related to - The Roaring.
@@Gelatinocyte2she be roaring on my knight til I deltarune
(LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER)
@@fedethegreat88 she roar on my deltarune till i knight
Maybe the knight was the friends we made along the way?
Indeed
@@THEGREAT_PAPYRUS WHY ARE YOU ME?!
Why are there two people that said the exact same thing
@@hybridvenom9 we actually made the same joke at the same time, in the same minute
Wait a minute...
I have and will continue to be completely confident that Berdly made the library dark word. In the spelling bee cutscene, Berdly says that he wanted to create a world for him and Noelle, and given that pretty much the only requirement for making a fountain is for a lightner to put their will into a blade -easily a pencil in this case- Berdly could have accidentally made the fountain when thinking about his world with Noelle.
Interesting idea, but I feel like Berdly or Noelle or someone would make some comment on the fountain forming if that was the case. Not to say it couldn't be true, of course.
@@sharkhaos_probably a magical fountain of darkness opening up would probably be pretty terrifying, maybe they just blocked it out
in deltarune 1, if you go to the libary, a text says you see a dog.
Interesting theory! Especially when you consider that pencils become swords in the dark world.
@@yunusbilgic5184 that was a reference to toby as the 'annoying dog' since it was coding/working on a game in there XD
In my opinion, the idea that there are multiple Knights requires much more evidence than just "It's technically possible." I'd find it more believable if the game was more vague about the Knight's true nature, but the game always uses the title "THE Knight." The burden of proof falls on those who argue there's more than one.
Not to mention, a lot of the arguments trying to defend multiple Knights are a lot of what-if scenarios. What if Jevil was lying or wrong, what if King told Queen about the Knight, etc. There's not much actual evidence supporting those ideas to be the case.
I will say though, if every chapter does turn out to have a different Knight, I'd find it most compelling if they were Deltarune's counterparts to the seven fallen humans. This assumes Kris is the Deltarune counterpart to Frisk, Chara, or both. Logically, it is unlikely, but again, I find it a cool idea.
That's what I thought (see my comment)
Quite. It also assumes cosmology involving the Dark World always existing, even without fountains. When I argued with Craftymint, I was entirely unconvinced of the arguments for that theory, given how it's said to have created the darkners. Before the sweepstakes I thought the history of the DW was retroactively created when the fountain opened based on the history of the objects, but now I am not quite sure. Sadly this video assumes it without evidence for it.
A lot of Knight Theories like to use “It would have be cool” as its evidence, especially with Kris Knight. It’s as likely as Kris’s knight and would also be cool.
@@WhiteCresentKnight Well, I'd say Kris Knight has more evidence than that.
@@WhiteCresentKnight kris knight has the most evidence out of every candidate but the fandoms just way too much in denial that the reveal was so early so they cant accept it lol
Im personally keeping my money on kris until chapter 3 releases, if toby then reveals they ARENT the knight and bring up some good story juice with it that doesnt make the evidence seem like he changed his mind, then ill be pleasantly surprised
"Kris is the Knight", "Papyrus is the Knight", "There is no Knight" yeah yeah but wouldn't it be really funny if the Knight was just lancer.
Lancer is obviously The (very charismatic) Angel
I think this is spiritually true in that there aren't multiple knights, but multiple wannabe knights, which is how the roaring can remain a threat even when the knight isn't around to cause it
More seriously, I think the Knight is Dess. Every Dark World has a hidden Christmas/baseball theme.
"seven theories one video" gives me that "four games one story" old fnaf vibe
I absolutely love this premise, I've been saying this/pulling together a case for it for a while.
To help patch some of the gaps in it/make it a bit less of a "but what if X thing was true?" thing, I really like the idea that the Knight/Angel are specifically roles in a/the prophecy, and that multiple people being "knights" is just multiple people fulfilling light world/dark world prophecies. This solves a very confusing part of Deltarune's current writing, which is why both "The Knight" and "The Angel" exist, despite what we know about them indicating that they're gonna fill the exact same role, which is effectively "someone who makes dark fountains". The thing about those two roles, and arguably the only real difference between what we know about them, is that no one mentions both: The Knight is exclusively talked about by Darkners, and the Angel is exclusively talked about by lightners (and Ralsei, a character who's clearly set apart from other Darkners in a bunch of ways). As extensions of this, the game puts forward two different apocalyptic events, these being the Roaring and the Angel's Heaven, which are redundant as two names for the same thing/two parts of the same event but could easily be two sides of the same event, seen from the point of view of Darkners and Lightners respectively.
This solves a bunch of weird plot inconsistencies that are otherwise very difficult to reason out: Notably, Queen inexplicably knowing the Knight as the Knight despite never meeting them, The Knight acting totally differently in how they treated the first dark world (explicitly meddling in things) and the second dark world (immediately leaving, not talking to anyone), and the fact that Kris making a fountain at the end of chapter 2 soft confirming there being multiple people making fountains (unless you think Kris is the knight, which is fair to think).
Narratively, making the Knight/Angel a role that one grows to fill instead of a guy who calls themself the Knight/the Angel is a slam dunk, and it goes perfectly with questions of free will/the ability to make decisions in life. For one example of this sort of thing Imagine an antagonistic arc for Noelle, a character that has a shit ton of angel foreshadowing but absolutely could not have made the first two chapters' dark fountains, who, hearing Alvin's sermons about the angel, seeks to "overcome fate" through the creation of dark fountains to save Rudy or find Dess, in the process both trying to defy the destined fates of Dess/Rudy AND actively contributing to creating a destiny where she fails. (for an example of making fountains being tied to challenging fate, see Queen referencing the "power of the will... of determination..." being what's needed to make a fountain, next to Ralsei's referencing of the soul as containing "Not only... one's will and compassion... but... also... the power to DETERMINE FATE.")
Cant wait for Rudy in ch3 epilogue to say something like "sorry noelle! I thought yesterday was saturday, but thats today! I will go to church tomorrow"
😭😭😭
So, the Roaring Knight could be a Revolving Door ?
The Dark World's could be different Imaginary worlds that link together due to People becoming open about their Imagination
0:34 That was SO close to the bfdi number, SO CLOSE
I’m over here roaring my knight I got dark on my fountains I’m just starting the roaring
deltarune schizo reaching a new level
by the time the full game drops we will all be locked up
If there are multiple knights. Kris is obviously knight #2
Chapter 1's ending was literally a hint for it, and at the beginning of chapter 2 we see something notable changed/moved around. The TV is plugged in, the pie is eaten. Both of these set up chapter 2's ending perfectly and the ending itself recontextualizes the opening (the opening tries to play off the ending of chapter 1 as a joke, the ending of chapter 2 flips that on its head, it wasn't a joke.)
Berdly and Noelle fell into the library dark fountain the same way Kris and Susie did in chapter 1. Its also implied that the Knight DID NOT make Castle Town's fountain.
Another thing to note is that the Knight most likely did not enter card kingdom. The only dark fountain we can actually leave is Castle Town, which is special among fountains. Ralsei states the only way for Kris and Susie to get home is via sealing the fountain. The Knight could have simply moved objects around before making the fountain. We also know from the anniversary stream that Toby oddly specifies that the "Fountain" made King act strange.
As for future Fountain creators, Noelle seems like the pretty obvious choice in the normal route. However in the weird route she is terrified of dark fountains.
I thought the knight was a manifestation of ‘the night’ i.e. their dreams/nightmares making them re-open the creative ‘worlds’ they ‘made’ as kids (for the schoolroom, the library, and the videogames; early teens for the cryptos like ice-e to take stuff; and adults maybe re: the not-lord of the rings book and religion) real again. They’re dark worlds, they want to cover everything in night forever, we go into the worlds by sleeping in the beds etc. It’s their subconscious - particularly Kris who’s tried to crush all their creative outputs since they assumed they caused the monster (ice-e?) to become real and it took Dess. (I’m assuming Gaster is just a videogame character brought via magic to life in his ‘world’, fell for Dess who also loved him, tried to reach her across the worlds, get to hers or bring her into his own yadayadayada love being creative and your worlds but also don’t fall into them too deeply and forget to live, sapsapsap). Or maybe I’m misreading the whole thing lol. But I assume it’s about creating stories that become real so dreams/nightmares leading to worlds feels legit. We see a ‘sleepwalking’ Kris open one after all.
2:56 love the delivery on this line ^u^ cool vid
also im now realizing that if the CH3 fountain was opened by Kris, and he isnt the Roaring Knight who opened the fountains of CH1+2, then it means by default that there is more than one knight. i could be wrong. still a good chance that the first 2 fountains were opened by the same person. there is a possiblity that the ch4 fountains and beyond could be opened by others
The knight is toby,he coded the fountains in the dark worlds
It could also be a single knight, yet the actions of the knight spark more people to open their own dark worlds.
I really like the idea of multiple different characters opening their own dark worlds from a story perspective.
Besides, the roaring would probably require many dark worlds to be open at once, wouldn't it?
"he wants to do something morally questionable with his father's hammer"
Deltarune Reimagined Chapter 4 be like:
1:41 I do not think this necessarily means that the Knight ever communicated with King directly. It is implied that when a dark fountain is created, they impose their will into the blade that creates it. This likely has the effect that all darkners under its domain are affected by that very will, and feel a sort of natural intent towards completing it. That does not, however, mean that they can't CHANGE their mind if the will of another is to persuade them.
That doesn't make sense, the Sweet Cap'n Cakes completely oppose the Queen, who's acting on the Knight's behalf. She also has to brainwash every single Plug character because they don't want to serve her
@@rendumguy7596 sure, unless creating an intentional "narrative" with two sides of a conflict is exactly what the Knight was intending to do.
01:33 01:47 I always see this assumption everywhere, that The Knight personally talked to the King or smth along those lines, but this can literally be boiled down to King just making assumptions because of his hatred for the lightners, like how Queen "Was Just Guessing Based Off The Knight's Actions"
it wouldn't make sense for the knight to be several people if Toby Fox planned to make an animation of him looking down a flight of stairs. The knight is definitely a single entity
Toby could have changed his mind since then
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard Do you REALLY think Toby would just randomly change his mind since then? It's one (and the most prominent) of the biggest mysteries in the series, so you'd think Toby wouldn't want to change that in his magnum opus on which he worked on for years.
Or it could have been a knight in a knight suit
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizardIf he changed his mind about this then the knight cannot be important by the end, which would be kinda odd
@huskadog7748 Wdym? Toby could have changed his idea on how he was going to go about the Knight, it'd just be revealed that the Knight wasn't a singular individual but a title given to anyone who opens a Dark Fountain instead for example, it doesn't mean the idea is scralped all together, it's just changed
Papyrus is a roaring knight, he does not purr.
First thing: The King has never called the Knight ‘The Roaring Knight’, only Queen and Susie has ever used that title (Susie said it after hearing it from Queen). You can check Deltarune’s dialogue dump online (Ctrl F for Roaring Knight). So that epithet seems to be unknown by the King, as he has never used it.
Second: Seam never said that the Knight locked the three Kings away. He only says that the Knight appeared, three of the kings got locked away, and the last King put ‘him and his son into power’ (considering that the Knight has only ever been referred to as by gender neutral terms like it and they, this him can only be referring to either the Spade King himself or Rouxls Kaard. Seam never states who locked the other kings away. The three Kings themselves don’t give much more, only stating that ‘but when the Knight arrived, everything changed…’ It’s really vague.
Sure there’s a clear cause and effect relationship being set up with the Knight appearing and the kings getting locked away, but the game purposely doesn’t make it clear how that happened. Toby Fox said on stream that the reason King’s personality changed to be more violent and protect his fountains was because he stepped into the fountain (presumably Queen and other chapter bosses did the same). So the cause and effect scenario could be the Knight appeared, King stepped into the fountain and changed, the knight locked the other kings away through force or trickery, and locked the other Kings away.
Also Queen never makes mention that there were any other dark fountains made elsewhere in her speech about the Knight, as it seems she assumes that the Knight stopped making more fountains so that’s why she’s trying to create a new knight to do so.
To me the answer to who is the Knight is simple: who ever expressed the will to destroy the world?
Chara. Case closed.
Now of course this would only apply to Knight 1 and 2, especially 2 since the knife we see is THE symbol for Chara, Knight 3 is Kris, and the rest we don't know yet... Alvin and Noelle are decent guesses for the next ones, while I think Rouxls, Papyrus and Undyne will be used as decoys
And because I'm bored here are predictions for next chapters:
- 3: Toriel's House, will feature Mike and Tenna (obviously) and we will see Toriel and Undyne in that dark world. That dark world was created by Kris because they feel lonely and believe it's the only way for them to spend time with their mother and best friend. Maybe they are looking for a way to get free from the Player. The theme of son/mother/TV + toxic relationship could have some similarities to The Binding of Isaac, though this is pure hypothesis at this point.
- 4: Church, a dark world created by Calvin's hammer for religious purposes. About Calvin, note that his name is likely based on John Calvin, a Christian leader who believed in predestination: some people are BORN good, others are BORN evil, there is NO FREE WILL (Luther would have similar yet less extreme ideas on this); free will being one of the core themes of Deltarune the reference is almost certain. Now the Roaring is some sort of Apocalypse, and Calvin didn't state his views on that topic, but unlike Luther he did not publicly express doubt on the authenticity of that book ("I cannot feel that the Holy Spirit has written it").
EDIT: WAIT A MINUTE HE'S CALLED ALVIN NOT CALVIN
EDIT 2: HOWEVER I just discovered something called "Alvin Plantinga's Free-Will Defense" in the context of philosophy. So Alvin is pro-free-will while Calvin is a determinist... there's something to do here isn't there
- 5: Town Hall, featuring Noelle's mother. This dark world was created by Noelle who wanted to bring back her dead father and absent mother. Note that Noelle is somewhat based on Jesus so that could have a link with Alvin as well.
- 6: Flower Shop, a dark world created by Kris to bring back their parents together (Asgore is shown to still love Toriel), perhaps inspired by Noelle or would inspire Noelle later. They would also try to bring back Asriel, who would be represented by Flowey.
- 7: The Bunker, something to do with Gaster I guess? Maybe Sans and Papyrus finally get a purpose in the game.
theres definitely foreshadowing that the Asgore's Flower shop might be a dark world at some point, so i have a feeling asgore might be one of the knights, and he would do it out of grief
The "Roaring Knight" could be a mythological/religious figure like the Angel, representing the person who is destined to cause the Roaring (so they would be serving the Angel by bringing the Angel's heaven, like a knight would serve their monarch) and King and Queen are confused because they think the person who opened their dark worlds is the person prophesied to cause the Roaring. If the three heroes are mentioned in a prophecy, it would make sense for their opponent, the Knight, to be too.
i was just planning to make a video essay about “no knight” shii and this person does that🙏😭
5:55 Can't imagine alphys willfully endagering the lives of children? Isn't that her whole ordeal in undertale? endangering kids for her own gain?
the end of the game is the 7 knights just beating the shit out of each other
We're not even sure if monsters fallls into dust in deltarune, bc susie says "everyone bleeds, right ?"
monsters turning to dust isn't established yet in deltarune
"i just can't imagine alphys willfully endangering the lives of children" she was reanimating corpses in her basement in undertale dog what do you mean
0:34 “2673” you might wanna switch 2 numbers there
BFDI REFERENCE LETS GOOOOO!!!
maybe someone is convincing them to create them? like yes there are multiple knights but somebody is pulling the strings to make sure it goes that way
MY LORD. SHATTERED INTO PIECES.
MY KNIGHT. SHATTERING INTO EVEN MORE PIECES.
SPREADING THE DARKNESS IN ANY FORM. VESSELS.
CREATING. MORE OF OUR KIND. BOTH. CREATING A PURE. AND DARKER YET DARKER. FUTURE FOR US.
(Think of Various Knights it's quite difficult, but, like the video!)
OMG PILES OF RUDY'S DUST 🔥🔥🔥🔥😭😭😭😭🥺🥺🥺🥺
Also, regarding the idea of bringing Dust to a DarkWorld, i would really like to see something so twisted like a type of amalgamate if this gets to happen, or something related to a melting darkner monster vision or something terrifying like that (would fit for a Chapter 5-7)
@@SpamDustt411
Animal Crossing villager or Deltarune character 🤫🧏♂️
@@CongregationGDReal DELTA DEVICE ONE.
I DON'T KNOW ALMOST ANY A THING FROM THE CATS AND ANIMALS GAME.
BUT I KINDA LIKE IT.
WHY THE OBSERVATION?.
The only thing that makes me disagree with this theory is the fact that the King in chapter 1 talks about meeting the knight. We know that the knight is at least 1 entity. To narrow it down even more, Roulx Kard and Queen both give a similar description of the knight, (btw, there isn't a lot of description of the knight) which lets us infer it is in fact only 1 person.
Firstly, great video!
If I were to try to come up with a multi knight theory, I'd have it so that there is a cult secretly operating in the town. Deltarune dips into a lot of the ground of eldritch horror. Knowledge of the world driving people mad, the futility of our actions, reality coming undone, and things being better off buried are all common themes of the genre. And under that lens, a cult works well. Alvin and the mayor would be great candidates for that.
It can even explain why Queen and King are mixed up. When a cultist made the fountains they would probably male their declaration verbally not textual. So King and Queen heard "Roaring Knight" when really what was being said was "Roaring Night." Yes, this theory I don't believe in even has a name for the cult, "The Roaring Night." I do not put it past Toby Fox to hide something so important inside a pun.
I feel Gaster is not the knight regardless of if there are one or multiple knights. In eldritch horror, the cults are often trying to commune with a higher being. Gaster wouldn't be a member but rather the being they're trying to commune with for whatever reason. Maybe that's what Spamton meant when he said, "speaking of communion."
I *love* this! What small town story wouldn't be complete without some secret cult?
Maybe another piece that could lead to a secret cult is that Catti's husband doesn't have an arm! Maybe he lost it in some sort of ritual? (Plus bratty's siblings always hide in the house, not sure if that could link to anything but it is kinda weird)
Or maybe the cult is why dess went missing? Like, what if she found out about it because of her interests with Mysteries and cryptids (maybe the mayor is in on it?) and they had to get rid of her so that nobody would find out (probably using the bunker) and maybe Kris saw what happened, and that's why they're scared of the bunker?
Maybe even that creature that scared the dog bandits is linked to it somehow, like either they created it or they use it as some sort of guard dog (or both)
Or, (just speculating) what if the creature is actually ice-e?
Anyway, i'm rambling, but who knows! But I *love* a good cult storyline! That would make things *very* interesting (ha ha) if that *is* what toby is doing.
By the way, Kris is definitely not the first knight for one single reson: King didn't recognize him while he clearly talked to the knight
Kris can’t be knight number 1 because he’s enemy number 1 to the chaos king. And king loves the knight. It seems much more likely that the knight has something against kris in particular, than them being kris. After all he doesn’t refer to kris as lightner, he refers to them as light bringer, a special title just for kris. Though kris could still open dark world 2.
Interesting analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I really think the knight will be a new character we haven’t met before (or have barely met)
I think there already *is* a dark world in the bunker.
Think about it, we're sure that Gaster is in the bunker.
If you call in a dark world, mus_smile.ogg plays.
What did Gaster use to contact Spamton?
*A phone.*
3:00 shout out to Salmonella
There is one knight. We are the knight because our discarded vessel is the knight
The discarded vessel will definitely appear as something significant in a later chapter, though I'm not entirely convinced it'll be the knight.
Currently, I think it'll be that during chapter 7, the roaring titans will first appear as twisted versions of the party, with the discarded vessel being Kris' counterpart.
@@overforest1195 I think its the discarded vessel. That's the only one that makes sense to me and why spamton was stopped when trying to talk about it.
Seemingly a new Status Update is coming very soon. What better than a Deltarune theory!
İ have NO evidense to prove this, but hear me out, if Knight turned out to be Kris from future it would be such a good plot
5:20 alphys is also genuinely suprised and upset that kris and susie skipped class
It makes the most sense that “knight” is just a term given to anyone who makes a dark world.
Not really tbh.
If that was the case, atleast the Darkners would know about this. Yet we know that barely anyone ever even talks about the concept of a Knight or even after hearing about it, knowing what that is. Despite the fact that a Knight would technically be their god.
For Seam to not even know that "Knight" was a term (he says "strange knight", uncapitalised, implying he doesn't know anything about such a title or term), would be extremely weird, if it was a normal known term that anyone in any dark world just knows.
This isnt exactly related, but I think kris being the knight in chapter 3 will be very interesting. Its been seen that those who create the dark worlds are held in high regards by the darkners that live in said dark worlds, so im hoping that kris gets a lot of praise and attention from them. We see that kris’ side of the room is very blank, no trophies or memorabilia. I think they would want to open a dark world for some semblance of attention (maybe)
A lot of people dont seem to have good reasoning for opening the dark world, but I see two clear explanations. One, they want to be in control (as shown at the end of chapter 2, they take their soul out in order to conduct activities they wouldnt be able to do with the player controlling them) and the second reason being more attention from their adoptive mother and the ability to be praised by the darkners in the world that they created
Thats all i have :3
Honestly this might be one of my favorite theory about the Knight. I think having several knights could fit the message of the game.
Everyone is so stupid. Everyone knows who the only two REAL Knight candidates are.
It’s Whimsalot and Knight Knight
While I love the Mettaton theory, I think maybe the suit was designed by Asriel - there’s a file on his desktop with a description a lot like the body Spamton NEO uses. Awesome theory video, I love how you strung it all together and fit the pieces so well!
16:04 “Because my insides are red and yours are too and the red on my face is matching you and goodness you’re bleeding what a wonderful feeling you’re down and you’re pleading my head is just dealing the red means I love you tasting your blood means I love you”
Funny that I thought of this theory yesterday... and here you are today with this video.
P.S. after watching the video: about misdirecting the audience, just remember Chara. Although to be fair that one isn't that far of a leap of logic: if you pay enough attention, you'd notice that the human in the intro has one stripe and Frisk has multiple stripes (two in game, many in the cover art).
The theory I came up with yesterday is pretty much the individual knights combine to make one big knight in the end, with the appearance of a chess knight. It could be that the knight was originally one whole individual, whose SOUL fragmented into several pieces, one of which is the red SOUL that then somehow possesses Kris. (Perhaps the other fragments has the color of the other Undertale SOULs, who knows?) Some of the other pieces could call themselves "the knight“, leading Jevil and some others to use the singular when talking about the knight.
Every knight is inside of us. A friend inside of us. (Gas term to define how the winged knight dings) How staggering
0:35 you were SO CLOSE to a bfdi reference
note that one toby fox quote where he said he was planning to have the knight shown at the top of the stairs in the game intro, this probably means theres only one knight
Another option would be that the Knight is a non-corporeal entity that possesses Lightners to open Dark Fountains, similar to the player possessing Kris.
That way, there would be both a single Knight, as well as multiple vessels to open the Dark Fountains with.
This would just be way too much. I do think that anyone that makes a fountain is the knight but it's just Kris, Susie and Noelle. They're the 3 people used as examples by Queen for how anyone could make a fountain, and all 3 of them and only them get called really wonderful by Gaster in the opening. Both very obvious foreshadowing.
17:30 what if Kris wants to make Undyne's job less boring? They literally made a crime scene out of their house: slashed tires and open door. Those were not necessary steps to make a dark world. When talking to Undyne we can select the option "Dark World" which Kris seems to willingly tell Undyne about once prompted. So maybe Kris wants to make a crime scene for the police to investigate and end up in a dark world?
there's one knight. he is gaster. the man who smiles and gives us the egg behind that tree is papyrus. egg is mentioned in papyrus's fight. it's an acronym for responsibility or it's just an easter egg. redacted is dess, trapped in the void.
The knigth Is clearly heats flamesman so his name shall finally be remember
i believe in the "gaster manipulating papyrus to be the knight" theory camp but this was super interesting too
I'm still thinking that the "Roaring Knight" is gonna be revealed to be the "vessel" we created at the beginning of Chapter 1. But of course I'm open to seeing others' theories. It's all so fun and interesting to see what the fan base can think up.
13:35 also undyne laughs at kris if you tell her about the dark world so it makes sense from a literary standpoint as well
"THERE IS NO PROPHECY.
THERE IS ONLY ME."
-The Knight
i love the way she says welcome in the beginning of the video like im entering like a wise wizards cave or something
my crack theory that I believe in whole heartedly is that we haven't even heard of/met them yet. not in undertale OR deltarune. an original deltarune character we have neither MET or HEARD OF we're not even halfway through deltarune. we hear about them in ch3 and we meet them formally in ch4 where they're around the scene of the dark fountain but also a bunch of other knight suspects are there too to mislead people.
What if knight opens worlds for ppl with desires? If Kris is the knight then he probably knows a lot about ppl living in the town, and what they really want.
Plot twist the knight is actually Ralsie who is also flowey who is also Freddy Fazbear! You know I’m right!!!
One thing of note is: do we even actually know if a single person can create more than one Fountain? It's entirely possible that a Fountain's given Dark World represents the full extent of how far that one person's will can stretch. (Also, does Toby Fox care about Occam's Razor?)
Also, as an aside, why do I think Queen and Spade King/Jevil likely know/know of each other? Well, Queen is the laptop and what is one of the most common programs that come preloaded on computers? Solitaire. Relationships between objects or concepts in the Light World may be able to form transitive relationships between Dark World denizens.
One detail that may support my thought is characters like Spamton being communicated with from a distance, possibly by someone keeping their hands clean of making the Fountains themselves (may or may not be Gaster). Someone could still be engineering situations where various other people decide to create Fountains because this mastermind is either; saving their one chance to make their own Fountain for the end when it really matters, or already spent their one chance on creating the first Fountain (in which case would be where they learned enough about how they function to know how to get other people to make more for them).
My best guesses to who has created the Fountains, if everyone can only ever make one:
#0: The first Fountain seems to be much older and potentially already visited by Kris before, so there's a good chance someone related to them created it and spent time together with Kris in it. So, Asriel is the most likely for that scenario, but it could also be someone more unexpected like one of his parents, or maybe someone else closer to to Kris's age (or at least was in the same school building in different grades and playing hooky from classes in the closet) that now dismisses their time spent there as nothing more than childhood make believe like Kris may have done before being confronted with it again. Something along these lines would explain Kris's reaction to the Dark Door, if the Dark World is something they're familiar with in the past, but is connected to memories of better times with someone that are no longer so simple? Or, since Dess had to get lost somewhere, maybe it was in her own personal Dark World (and that's the only one we know of existing before the events of the story, though might be a SLIGHT chance others have been opened and already closed before)?
#1: Unused classroom: Narratively, this will likely follow the who-done-it hook of it probably being someone who was in that classroom before Kris arrived that day, and that knew of Susie's chalk eating habit? Maybe you dismiss Alphys too quickly, since we know her personality allows her the capacity to manipulate other people to cope with her frustrations with her own life. As far as can be told, the returning characters from Undertale have been typecasted into roles where their personalities can play into similar but remixed contexts. ...Though there's a good chance it's one of the other teens. I'd eliminate everyone who went to the Cyberworld, but just no evidence to really point at one of the remaining suspects. Wild guess Temmie.
#2: Library Computer Lab: maybe it doesn't have to be clever and mysterious at all? Annoying Dog was in there the previous day working on chapter 2, he caused the traffic jam, and was hanging out around that Dark World as you explored it, so maybe it is just as simple as Cyberworld belonging to that in-game character? It'd also be rather silly and cheeky if Temmie's and Toby's avatars were the ones to get the ball rolling on the story, being the lead creatives of the game. (Side note, wonder if the rest of the team with get direct cameos at some point?)
#♾: Chapter 3 seems to be set up to inform more people about the Dark Worlds once again, so as that information spreads, more people could be tempted to create their own? Even if those who've visited don't intend it, that knowledge could spread from them, becoming a local rumor, a urban legend that people start to test out. The context of a small town setting could become quite relevant. Anyone could be a Knight going forward. And there's no promise the number of Dark Worlds we deal with will be equal to the number of chapters. Could be fewer or could be more, of varying sizes to explore.
...Instead of guessing "which" locations across town may become Dark Worlds, maybe we should focus on guessing "what" each location could end up being? Church, Diner, Flower Shop, Hospital, Noel's House, Police Station, government office, Alphys's dirty alley, the river, SansMart, any other home, another classroom, the graveyard even (better hope we don't have to deal with a Dark World for the pizza place)? Also, as suspect as it is, the Bunker might never be a proper Dark World, and instead be a different type of plot point, one in the middle somewhere that shifts the plot's momentum? There's almost certainly a point in the story where things will start getting out of hand, cause only ever getting one new Fountain at a time doesn't seem too likely to threaten the Roaring.
15:42 Yeah, honestly, I feel like this will probably get expanded upon, or even used. Undertale taught us about a monster's dust covering an object infusing their essence into it. Undertale also taught us that determination can animate the inanimate.
What else does that? Dark Fountains.
An ordinary jack of spades playing card is brought to life as Lancer, a stuffed cat toy brought to life as Seam, etc.
Like, it's almost too perfect, right? We have all the pieces in place to facilitate bringing life to that which is not alive. What happens if you create a dark world in a cemetery? I suspect that we will see someone resurrected from the dead in a future chapter. Perhaps that resurrection may even be the motivating reason behind creating that dark world.
Whilst I like the theory of metaton opening the computer lab world to find his body, I feel like him giving up after a day (since the day before it was Toby in there working on the game in CH1) despite being a ghost (assuming so since haven’t actually seen him in this universe) and being able phase through walls and floors isn’t too convincing.
Plus, interacting with the closet after CH2s dark world makes a comment on something about a whole person fitting in there, along with Noelle and berdley at the desk, it’s assumed that they hid in the closet and opened the world after the two have already entered, so it couldn’t have been metaton opening it if we gave him the benefit of the doubt of taking a whole night till mid day to find his body before Kris and Susie arrive.
That’s just my thoughts, I could be wrong about some things - but talking to metaton and how sad he is in this world really breaks my heart :(
I think Susie is going to open a dark world in her own house to escape from her abusive home.
This can be slotted instead of Undyne because remember, Deltarune is not a sequel. A character like Undyne already had all the time to shine and Susie's abusive household hasn't been used in the story.
Regardless I think Susie and Noelle will open dark worlds even if theres only one knight.
Oh!!! Glad to see that I'm not the only one who thought this!
It just makes sense, plain and simple.
We all the Knight!
Edit: Its ether Kris or Kris + one other person probably Dess
I doubt it. Especially with the scrapped intro showing Kris and the Knight in the same scene.
It's most likely Chara + Kris + Noelle + Gaster + Alvin
I know it sounds like a meme, but I'm 100% serious
Hear me out, Noelle's Dad will be a Knight in the future.
Kris didn't open the door to trick Undyne into the Dark World he opened the door to spill the Dark World into the town. If I'm correct then Noelle's Dad will have vitality in this opposite land, and maybe before he dies cause obviously this is being set up for a future event maybe he will remember his time with his daughter in the dark world and he will open it to get one more day with her.
Also how else can he take Ralsei to the town carnival? OBVIOUSLY he opened the door so he could have the power of fluffy boys again.
i've had this idea in my head since chapter 2, i don't really believe it but i interesting story could be made with multiple knights or with a guild of knights
“Murder on the orient express” ahh theory
This is literally the same theory i had. I don’t think it’s the case because I think it’s supposed to follow the same chess theme (king, queen, knight, etc), but It’s definitely a thing toby would do.
I do believe right now in the story there is just one Roaring Knight, but there's a chance Noelle could create a Dark World in the future. Considering Angel's Heaven is depicted as a Dark Fountain, Rudy's death on the horizon, Spamton's constant description of Noelle as [Angel] and other related events in the Weird Route, there's lots of evidence pointing to this being the big plot point before the Roaring.
As for a dust infused object, I see no reason it wouldn't imbue the objects with the mind of that monster. Dark Fountains are made with Determination, so it stands to reason that Darkners are operating under similar rules as Flowey with the major difference being the determination isn't self-sustaining so the Darkner must be bathed in their Dark Fountain's determination to remain alive. The only thing I have yet to figure out is why only Flowey lacks emotions but Darkners seemingly do.
Dr fans about to learn that unreliable characters exist
Me personally I believe theres 3 Knights, with my definition of a Knight being someone who has intentionality created at least 2 dark fountains
1: The progenitor knight, Gerson or Gaster. The one who made the closet fountain, and perhaps the bunker fountain which may also make them responsible for Dess's disappearance
2: THE KNIGHT (or perhaps Roaring Knight), the one who acts as the main villain and gets a super cool boss fight eventually. I believe to be Alvin, Papyrus, or Mayor Holiday
3: Kris_Knight.jpg, Kris made 2 dark fountains. Since they didnt make the school or library ones, the one they 95% certainly made at the end of chapter 1 is still unaccounted for
have u considered that Gaster is the Knight?
It's an interesting fact that Ralsei says that The Darkners's purpose is to serve the lightners, and in a way, that sort of is what King was doing by serving the Knight