I was just down the road at Laleham and returned to Egham that day. It still amazes me just how close the crash site was to both the A30 and the housing estate.
@@colinprice712 I remember it so well... I was 12 at the time and lived in Stanwell... I was returning from Cobham and remember the roads being so jammed with 'sightseers' that the junction at 'The Bulldog' became completely logjammed and ambulances from Ashford hospital couldn't get through... It is remarkable to see the crash site and realise how much worse the disaster could have been if it had crashed over Staines...
@colinprice712 my aunt lived down the road in her cottage and heard the whole thing out her backwards as she was hanging her washing out, she remembered it like s bomb going off during the war, she made tea for dome of the police who came to nearby places to ask if they see or heard anything. 😢
For me it was especially tragic the plain missed our car by 70 or 80 feet almost hitting the street lamps he banked the plain to the left slightly brushing it across the top of the trees to brake its speed so the captain was in control at the time he did contrary to what people say try to land that plain sadly my teacher and my crossing lady miss wheeler lost their lives onboard that aircraft we felt the loss at school so much
@@cyprusgrump Flight 548 actually missed the town of Staines by just 50 yards. Had it flown that further, the crash site would be in the center of town with shops and houses....
Bonechilling. Everything that could go wrong in this Case did, pilot anger, crew mismanagement, failure of Health of a crewman, and poor mechanical design. Truly dreadful. Great video as always allec, rip to all involved!
I have to defend Captain Key regarding some of the comments made. Yes, he was old school, a world away from the two young co-pilots, he was a very experienced Captain and known to be by the book and dedicated to his job. I certainly feel that he was under stress that day; having been on an airport standby for most of it, the confrontation with the militant co-pilot in the crew room before his flight, then having a very young and inexperienced co-pilot sat next to him along with the poor weather. Like most accidents it was a combination of events that lead up to it. He was four years away from retirement and no doubt keen to maintain his loyalty to the company. In those days before CRM you never questioned the Captain or queried his actions; there was a culture of fear in some ways; all that changed after Papa India; as did crew medicals. Although Key had a medical and was fit to fly, he never undertook a stressed ECG which could have detected his heart condition and likely grounded him. The overwhelming sound of the stall warning horn going off, the stick shaker and the stick push all happening within seconds must have been too much for Key’s heart and being a good pilot he instinctively grabbed the control column to maintain flight not realising that someone had retracted the droops far too early. It was never determined who moved the droop lever; it could have been the co-pilot or Key himself. The Trident was peculiar in the sense that it had two levers one for the droops and one for the flaps; unlike modern jets that have a single lever for both. It was common to mistake the two and some close calls did occur on previous flights. After the accident a bulk was fitted to the droop lever to make if physically impossible to move it below 6,000 feet or 225 knots. If you want to hear the sound of a stall warning horn in a Trident; look up Trident three G-AWZI on UA-cam for a demonstration and also the stick shake. You may be able to appreciate how overwhelming it can be. Next year 2022 will be 50 years since the accident and under the 50 year rule more documentation will be released.
I’m glad I’m not the only one to think that. Blaming the captain was a total cop out in my opinion, when in reality it was the fault of pretty much everyone except him
That sound is terrifying! Thank God pilot cabins are locked and closed off is all I can say..passengers would never want to hear imminent crash warnings like that.
I was 14 at the time and remember this cash happening. A few of us were on our bikes near the crash and hot footed over to the site. I can see the aircraft to this day having just gone down, it was horrific. The emergency services took their time in getting there as they were given the wrong location. Apparently they were beginning to think that it was a false alarm because they could find the crash site. Eventually they did of course (communication wasn’t brilliant in those days) and we, and many others who got there first were ushered away pretty quickly. A sight I’ll never forget.
A work friend of mine, his school friend was photographer for Heathrow at the time, he had to go to take pictures of the crash and he was let through the line to go inside remains of the plane, although it was reported all dead on impact two survivors taken to hospital, this account was not true, on entering the fuselage sections that were sheeted off, he was let in by medics, he said the people strapped in still were moaning groaning, still alive, the medics said don't touch them as there had morphine and we're dieing, sorry but that's what his account was , the medical said there bodies were shattered
@@tightcamper your a troll. They may be talking out their a$$, but we know you are. Actually, your a troublemaker that gets your kicks by sabotaging conversation between grown ups. Go away.
I’m so sorry this was a crew with “bad mojo” among them. No one deserves to die like this. Allec, you are the ONLY Aviation channel that explains in such detail that even I, a non-Aviator, can understand. Thank you for that.
I don't like the idea of that noise abatement procedure. Pilots need to be focused on safely controlling the plane. Making them worry about something superfluous to safety going on their record, especially during takeoffs and landings, is frankly ridiculous.
The noise abatement procedure was completely safe as long as the pilot maintained focus on flying the airplane. For whatever reason Captain Key acted like an unfocused random input generator, and his copilot appears to have been spectating with folded hands instead of assisting.
Back during this time, many airports located in high population areas were forced into noise abatement procedures after takeoff by the local municipal jurisdictions due to citizen complaints. To this day, older aircraft with legacy engines are still subject to these restrictions. Fortunately, latest generation engines are much quieter and don’t have to power down as much or at all.
Keep in mind the low-bypass turbojet engines of the time (and still used in many military planes today) were much, much louder than today's high-bypass turbofans. The noise they make at high throttle is pretty intolerable to people on the ground, which is a concern for airports in high-population areas.
@@kingssuck06 I’m sure many airports still have decibel limits, but I believe modern engines can achieve those limits at a higher thrust percent than legacy engines, therefore less chance of hanging too close to stall speeds.
Allec, I would like to express my sincere gratitude to you for all of the effort you spend making these videos. With out exception, I have found each one to be well made, and makes me feel like I am in the cockpit. Great work!
This guy has been putting out nonstop quality content. Not just the animations (that he does and edits himself) but in the information and putting out every single detail to know about each incident. It’s great. I’ve said a few times now that he deserves way more subs. I try to share around cause these videos are awesome
The Captain was ex-RAF and very senior to the other crew members. He had a reputation of being a bully and it was the norm at the time, not to question the actions of a senior officer, much like in the armed forces. I saw the glow from this accident as a kid, from my bedroom window. I still remember it vividly
Senior Captain with junior officers who wanted to strike. He didn't. Typical as this guy paid his dues . He lost control of the cockpit which caused the crash.
@@747heavyboeing3 Well, that's an opinion and you are entitled to it. My comment is based upon many documentaries that I have watched over the years, as well as opinions from airport workers. Also, my sister used to work for BEA at Heathrow and I worked fir it's later incarnation.
Glow? The aircraft never exploded in a fireball. It just pancaked the ground and oddly did not go up in flames . Funny how you remember something which never happened. I can still recall its callsign as Papa-India.
Very strange how the captain of many years experience and good record was suddenly made out to be a "bully" and "barking orders" at the two 2nd officers who only wanted " better working conditions" but according to the graffiti (that the investigators incredibly failed to disover who was responsible for) and Flavell's half of the argument WHO were the real bullies? and WHO REALLY caused the accident? This was in the days of "The angry Silence" with blatant employee intimidation by militant union members at companies like BEA... to this day unions still betray the workers...very sad!
I live near Heathrow and I use to walk past the area where the plane crashed, this was about 30 years ago, but there was a real eerie quietness walking past that area and I had that feeling I was being watched. I only found out where it actually crashed a few years after walking past this area. Fascinating video, many thanks.
@@groovydonkey I remember it being reported that the aircraft crashed into the gravel pits at Staines , since you said you lived near there I assumed you could perhaps confirm or refute this
@@aac7183 No by what I remember it was near a wooded are off Heathrow, Stains and the surrounding areas are all located and come under two Boroughs, Hillingdon and Spelthorne, which interconnected with Heathrow Airport. By what I believe and have read about the flight, it bellyflopped into an area, which I believe was a wooded area and still is as far as I know.
@@groovydonkey Then the gravel pits detail must be something I have misheard . The incident , I have since looked it up , was also known as The Staines Air Disaster . Thank you for your polite answer
The captain was stressed and may have had a heart attack or something close. Sad that we'll never know for sure. Shows why you have to keep personal disputes out of the cockpit at all times. So sad. Nice video, Allec-
I remember this very well from the time. At the very hour of this flight, I was flying in a De Haviland Comet from Tangiers to London Gatwick. There was much talk at the time as to whether the current Noise Abatement Climb procedures were correct.
I guess that you flew on a Dan Air Comet 4 into Gatwick Steve.. I worked at Gatwick for 31 years and also remember the Trident GARPI crash very well.. Sad like all air crashes.. Dan Air Flt..DA1008 a Boeing 727-100 GBDAN from.Manchester to Tenerife crashed into a mountain Side on route to Los Rodeos airport TFN. I hope that Alec will do a report on this crash sometime too as it seems to be forgotten being at the time of the world's most awful crash of two B747 a/c at the same airport , Los Rodeos Tenerife North. .The Dan Air crash seems to have been overshadowed by the Pan Am / KLM crash.. Also Alec might report on another Dan Air accident that occurred in the 80's I believe from Manchester to Gerona involving a Comet 4 GAPDN ... Both of these accidents sadly remembered by many.. Thank you Alec..
Everyday, thousands of motorists drive the section of the A30 in Staines past this crash site, most having no idea that England's worst plane crash took place just a hundred yards off the roadway (Pan Am 103 was Britain's worst but that wasn't in England.) When this Trident crashed, it had very little forward speed and sort of pancaked down on the field, and was only about two minutes into its flight from Heathrow. Hundreds of local people came out to see the wreck, in some cases impeding first responders from getting to the site. This crash highlighted the importance of cockpit resource management, among other things, and for junior pilots being able to challenge senior pilots in a non-hostile environment. We'll never know exactly what was going on in the cockpit of BEA 548 but what is known is that the three men up front were flying a perfectly good airplane...which makes this all the more tragic.
Allec always rolling up on us every Thursday night🌙 like the boss he is with always the best work ! We do appreciate you alot Allec ...and hope flight school is going well for you..you deserve the best in life sincerely!❤💯
It says near Staines. In fact it was in Staines by the A30 main road near what was the Crooked Billet Public House, also when my brother inlaw was a fireman it was his first shout. And my late neibour was one of the first nurses on the seen, and never flew again after that.
Back at the end of May, I had a heart attack resulting in a quadruple bypass. It was painful but I was still functioning, setting up a glass of aspirin, packing a bag, calling for an ambulance, and even going to the loo. If captain Key was having a heart attack, he was possibly functioning, but unable to make normal radio conversation. The other cockpit crew would probably not know that he was having a heart attack, and thought that his terseness was due to anger, not pain. He really should have said something. Without a CVR it's impossible to know what conversations did take place.
I've read a lot about this tragic crash. An absolute disaster in every way. Team spirit and teamwork are essential in the cockpit. Good video allec as always.
@@JosephStalin-yk2hd nevermind the loser, he's trolling all over this thread long night in the basement I suspect, I don't think his mother loves him very much especially bestowing him with a name like Burt.....
@@badmonkey2222 yeah your right. He’s most likely, wasting his life about some aviation crash investigation channel, how embarrassing, For Burt the turd.
In 1972, I was 15 years old and lived not far from where this sad event took place and still remember seeing the incident on TV news! I also used to cycle many times to Heathrow Airport from my house around that time, to go plane spotting for the day with my mate. Consequently, we used to see many planes taking off from the same runway that this Trident did i.e. Runway 27R. RIP to all!
It was a miracle nobody on the ground was killed, the Trident hit a small field surrounded by houses, I think even overhead cables running across the field were untouched.
One of those early accidents where a CVR would have been so useful. The UK Channel 4 documentary series from the 90s "Black Box" covers this incident really well. A very good video, thank you.
Agreed. The episode has two contemporaries of the young junior officers (by then senior BA Captains) demonstrating what the crew would have been faced with in a Trident simulator - it was very easy to see how overwhelming the audible and visual warnings would have been. Crucially, both of them point out that rostering two such junior airmen alongside a senior captain as strict as Captain Key would no longer be considered acceptable.
This was the accident that prompted the CAA in the UK to mandate CVRs in transport category aircraft capable of carrying more than a certain number of pasenges or exceeding a given MTOW. At the time it was regarded by crews as a management "spy in the cockpit" but since its introduction it's helped unravel the intricacies of many an accident.
I have the book from the series, and it's the reason why I don't fly so much anymore, when I do fly I try to get a seat towards the tail, why I always check where the emergency exits are and keep my seat belt on all the time, and why T subscribe to this channel. Flying is comparatively very safe, but there's no need not to be an educated passenger. This accident, JAL123, the Valujet everglades crash, United 232, American 191and the Tenerife disaster all stick in the mind. Still love DC 10s though.
@@1harryrobert The plane belly flopped onto the ground. As they were strapped in their spinal column was pushed into their brain and some broke their necks at the same time.
Fatal mixture of human stress, both mentally and physically, inexperience and poor technical design. Under such condition, if something can go wrong, it will go wrong. R.I.P.
I was about 10 when this happened and remember it well. The broken wreckage photos were all over the newspapers. It's amazing that no one seemed to see it crash.
An excellent documentary on this crash came out around 1989. Like Alec here, it explained the toxic pilot group dynamics going on at BEA at that time. Capt Key was a former WWII RAF bomber pilot who’s seniority most likely formed his opinions against the younger pilot group seeking better working conditions. The doc I watched did mention that Capt Keys demeanor on that flight may have had him barking out orders to two highly inexperienced 2nd officers who dared not cross him. Such a sad and extremely unfortunate confluence of events that brought down this jet.
Very strange how the captain of many years experience and good record was suddenly made out to be a "bully" and "barking orders" at the two 2nd officers who only wanted " better working conditions" but according to the graffiti (that the investigators incredibly failed to disover who was responsible for) and Flavell's half of the argument WHO were the real bullies? and WHO REALLY caused the accident? This was in the days of "The angry Silence" with blatant employee intimidation by militant union members at companies like BEA... to this day unions still betray the workers...very sad!
Pure incompetence. The airplane tried to save them multiple times and yet apparently with a pilot, co-pilot, flight engineer and extra jump seat pilot, NOT ONE could figure out the reason for the stall and, indeed, just sat there while INCORRECT FLIGHT CONTROL INPUTS were shoved in by the pilot. Insane.
I don't normally comment on your videos, but they are of exceptional quality and thank you. I remember the Staines crash very well. I was 5 and my Mum was in a local hospital at the time, in Staines. I remember saying to my dad, why was there so many emergency vehicles driving past. It was on the news when we got home. Take care, Jeff
I can definitely see the two “kids” in the cockpit being intimidated by the captain. I’m retired law enforcement and I was 22 when I got hired. I would’ve never dreamed of standing up to a senior officer, let alone an officer with rank. Most of them were Vietnam Vets and weren’t about to take any crap from a rookie.
I can remember such Authoritarian Old Chieftains very well, too. It was another time and another generation. But flying an airplane is teamwork - especially when something goes wrong.
Well, we should also remember, that this was a time, b4 there was anything called CRM. And from the graffiti found in the remains of the cockpit, looks like the younger officers were too busy behaving like schoolboys to actually do their jobs. I am by no means holding the captain blameless, but theres plenty of blame to go around, and I always find it appalling, when 1 person is dragged out as a scapegoat. Its so dishonest, not just by the known facts of this case, but in general, as there is never just 1 reason for an accident, unless somebody deliberately crashes the plane, which was not the case here.
Great video as always-I enjoy when you are able to add photos of the crew as we get a lil more “insider” stuff. Thanks again for your hard work and dedication. Hope your aviation career is going well!
The crash of Trident 1C G-ARPI had a huge impact on UK aviation. To this day at Heathrow it is still a talking point that raises it's head every so often.....
The age of the first and second officer astonishes me. Not that young pilots are inherently bad, but the lack of experience would suggest to me that strong backup is prudent. Two relative novices in the cockpit? I'd have wanted to switch one out for someone with more experience.
I also picked up on that. Was there really 22 year old co pilots around back in the early 70’s? The saying, if you are good enough, you are old enough springs to mind, but 22 years seems quite young to me…..Still, great video with a very detailed explanation highlighting the events leading up to this tragedy….
@@badmonkey2222 I personally know three, with the UK having many in house airline training schemes it really isn't that unusual to encounter captains in their twenties
They never throttled up after their noise abatement routine did they? If not the first officer should have done it, they were doomed without enough thrust, but when cleared to climb to 6,000 feet he throttled back. That makes no sense whatever so it's not all on the beleaguered captain. It's sad. I'm surprised the throttle settings weren't even discussed.
Captain key was screaming in there at them and making them uncomfortable. But keys heart was about to explode.and it fell out in the terminal. He was living on the blood in his head. And they had a brain dead in the jump seat (dead head) but no leg mentals
@@Primus54 yes, key nearly exploded before the crash. He was shouting at a guy in the canteen I.was admin for bea. Leg mental can't fly planes. Mrs key cooked everything in lard. After the plane crash they found keys moustache on its own. It had come off in the crash and his wife put it on the mantle piece
A former fellow-worker on the railways on the Slough Reading stretch had witnessed this and confessed he still "wasnt the better of it", when he told me 2 years later.
For those of you downplaying Allec Joshua Ibay need to realize that no one knew of the Flight Channel before he started posting these videos and neither did anyone have any interest besides Air Crash Investigations. The Flight Channel is great in its own right. However, the incidents are a recreation of what Allec puts on his channel with a newer flight simulator software. This is straight to the point and no multiple camera angles that take away the veracity of the incident. So, for those who love TheFlightChannel, stick to it. However, please refrain from downplaying someone else’s work. These recreation are not a simple task. Keep it up, Allec.
It wasn't just a series of unusual aviation errors or unfortunate coincidences that downed this plane and caused an awful tragedy - but a medical condition compounded by a pre flight emotional outburst leading to a sour cockpit and almost unavoidable mental distress withheld from the other inexperienced crew. This made me see this tragedy more clearly than ever before: and I now feel enormous sympathy for EVERYONE on board. I meant to walk to the site in recent years, and am only less than 2 miles away this evening. Incidentally, I'm still flummoxed they were in the air a considerable time and yet only made it to Staines - a stones throw away.
I was walking to a 'blind date' at the far end of Egham when the crash happened. The date never happened. At the roundabout at the bottom of Egham hill a stream of traffic wa travelling towards Staines. I was surprised to see how many mothers were taking the children to rubberneck as the accident. The increased traffic was one reason for delays in ambulances reaching the crash site. It was just after five in the evening, rush hour, and in any case all roads around Heathrow were often congested. The M25 was supposed to improve this. There was no emergency helicopter at Heathrow in those days. A work colleague had a private ambulance, when he got there the passengers looked normal except for blood from noses and ears, all dead, except for, he said, one or two including a baby or small child. But none could be got to Ashford hospital. It was said that the pilots deliberately placed the plane into the field; literally seconds later it would have hit residential houses, but I doubt this as the plane was stalled and probably could not manouvre.
Hello Bill, I am currently doing a project on the Staines Air Disaster and I have been searching through so many recollections from people who witnessed this incident in order to assist in my work. Your narrative is extremely interesting and I would like to include it in my work. I would like to ask if this would be okay with you and whether you had any more memories of that day which you would be happy to share? Thank You!
Once into a crisis, "tunnel vision" on the perceived casualty is very common. It takes deep training to reliably overcome the tendency - not something I'd expect the two VERY young crew to have, and which an already-compromised captain was unlikely to have, at that point, either. Add in disrupted training, poor crew cohesion, and poor ergonomic design, and yeah, this is almost inevitable.
@@lairdcummings9092 It is odd thou, I would think that the ingrained response to a stall is to push the nose down and increase the throttles to full. But, I'm not a pilot, I just play one on the internet. 😉
@@HitechProductions you'd think. Throttles forward, yoke forward to break a stall. Even at low altitude. Pilot incapacity due to health crisis is one thing, but the Copilot lapse of action is a real head scratcher. You can find a new job, but you only get one life. Unless the Hindus are right about reincarnation of course.
I always think of the passengers and how they are sitting there just wanting to get from point A to point B and not knowing they are moments away from death ...
My friend's Father was on this flight. I find the majority of comments made by mostly ignorant keyboard warriors pretty distasteful. Even the opening shot depicts a Trident 2 not the correct type.
It was a perfect storm of environmental, social and physical stressors. The goal of every airline should be to maintain a sterile flight deck, everything else, including maintenance and training, follows.
This aircraft was renowned for the noise on take-off. As airports in the UK grew in size, there was increasing pressure on them to do something about noise pollution as local inhabitants were starting to gain a collective voice. If they failed to throttle back after 90 secs, the airline would subsequently receive a fine, I believe. Often the engineer timed it to the second with a stopwatch in order to maximise airspeed/altitude due to the relative poor power output on this aircraft.
I suspect that was merely the reason the aircraft wasn't at an appropriate droop-flaps-up climbing speed sooner, spelling doom for the craft when the droop flaps were retracted by mistake.
@@AnalogueInTheUK Exactly. This aircraft had the power output of a hair dryer (yes, I exaggerate...but not by much) and they used all the thrust they could for as long as they could. Thanks for reminding us of the context at that time.
I remember this accident. I think there were a lot of rubberneckers who drove out to the site. I don't think the plane caught fire. After the emergency services turned up some of the leaking fuel ignited and caused a lot of panic to the sightseers. There was an inquiry into that. I think it was over an hour after the crash! Also there were questions asked about a can of aerosol found in the cockpit.
I was 5 years of age, back in 1972, and we had just moved to Sunningdale, Berkshire, by the A30. We used to drive to my grandparents' house in Harrow, and I remember passing the crash site, in Staines, by the reservoir. That would have been a few days after the tragedy.
BAE Trident was a pretty unique air craft. Very fast but short range (Mach 0.9?) No fatalities through failure of the aircraft. Named Trident because it had triple redundancy in the hydraulic systems.
Most of the other issues have been addressed in the comments, but I would just like to add that I am glad investigators attempted to ascertain who scribbled hateful graffiti on the aircraft tables. This childish and distracting behavior has NO place among members of a flight crew, and the guilty party should be investigated and disciplined. There are proper channels through which crew members can voice their concerns. The ONLY concern of ALL crew members once having boarded the aircraft MUST be safe execution of the flight...innocent souls are depending on it. The graffiti proves that the vengeful attitude of one of the crew members was indeed coming on board the aircraft with him. RIP to all who perished. Excellent video by Allec, as always.
Allec: I just want to let you know that your videos' are excellent. My only complaint against them is that the situations you depict actually happened, and in far to many cases innocent lives were lost (obviously NOT your fault!). You do good work! Keep it up!
Very well done and while I still wish you’d make the words easier to read some times I appreciate your attention to detail and the accurate explanation of events very well done sir👍🏻👌🏻💯
@@Capecodham get lost burt, didn't your mother teach you any manners, going onto somebody else's channel trying to promote somebody else's crappy channel, you're all over this thread with that crap get lost, have some respect, if you don't like it get out....
I was 13 when this happened and recall hearing about it on the 5 o clock radio news and then seeing it on the 6 o clock news on the TV. We had only recently got our first TV and so it was amazing to see something that had only happened two hours earlier. Amazing there was no fire as it must have been loaded with fuel.
On a side note here? Great job with the video Allec. You're a busy man now I'm betting- your video quality hasn't changed- top notch- My rant was for the scenario presented, and in no way reflects on anything you did- just to clarify, lol.
Great Video Alec! I remember seeing the crash pics on the front pages of newspapers! I have flown on 2 Tridents (BEA & Channel Airways) a very fast and excellent plane apart from being rather small! I believe a Test crew stalled one in Norfolk UK and lost their lives while investigating the stall thresholds!
@@stuartrichardson5699 G-ARPY was lost in the test accident. G-ARPI was the Trident that crashed at Staines. Both were Trident 1Cs. The simulation depicts a Trident 2E G-AVFF. The Trident 2E had a number of changes compared to the 1C. It had more powerful engines and it had proper leading edge slats (as can be seen in the simulation),. The 1C had simpler hinged leading edges to the wings, known as "droops".
@@paulcooper8818 I was about to say the same thing, what was the technical issue? Or was it the captain continuing to chew someone out? Will never know with no CVR.
Apart from the issues surrounding Captain Key's health there was a lack of trust in the stall warning system due to a couple of false alarms in previous years; it was not unknown for BEA crews to disable the equipment because they believed it to be unreliable. Captain Key may well have thought that the warnings on this occasion were spurious. It's a very complex story but broadly, BEA was far from an efficient airline at the time and it's not too difficult to find accounts of bad practice within the organisation if you search..........up to the reader as to whether they believe it, of course.
Am I the only one wondering about the technical issues happening on the runway just before takeoff? Also I'm surprised to learn there was no CVR on board the plane, but then since it was 1972 maybe they weren't required yet on airplanes at that time? A CVR would have been helpful in this investigation. Thanks for bringing this story to us Mr. Allec.
CVRs were not required or common in UK aircraft at the time. They became mandatory as a direct result of this accident. The lack of insight into exactly what happened was a serious handicap to the investigation.
Hey Allec, you should check out VASP flight 375, a crazy suicidal mission attempt that happened here in Brasil in the 80s. The captain did a barrel roll and a spin dive with a 737 (both never attempted before with that kind of aircraft) trying to knockout the hijacker.
Just to add a comment rather than a reply to a comment. Someone, probably the P2, retracted the Droops at 62 kts below the minimum retract speed of 225 kts causing an immediate Stall. At this point the only action that could stop the airplane from crashing was to extend the Droops. No amount of power, and perfect flying of pitch would result in enough airspeed for the wing to provide lift to fly plus the fact the sink rate could not be reversed before impact, they were just too low at under 2000’. Possibly it would work if they had been at FL200.
We subsequently re-enacted the event in the simulator. As I recall if the droop scenario could be corrected then a recovery could be made from a relatively low altitude but it did rely on the crew appreciating that the droops were up instead of down
@@Kathikas1 That is what I said. All the comments in the accident report about overriding the stick push mean nothing. The only possible recovery was to return the airplane to its previous configuration, Droops Extended. There was zero possibility of recovery if the droops were not extended even if every thing else was done perfectly.
Yes, he should never have got on the plane at all, let alone fly it. He would have been experiencing chest pains and should have aborted the flight. He was ultimately responsible for this tragedy.
@@Capecodham Cockpit Voice Recorder. Sadly, the most common "last words" spoken by crew just before a fatal crash is "Shit!". Not joking, that is from hundreds of recordings.
Hi Alec. Thank you so much for the video. I love your video's. They are really insightful. May I please ask you to make a video about Hansie Cronje's plane crash of 2002 in George, South Africa. I would love to see an animation of it. Thank you so much and keep posting 🙂
The co-pilots were so young, 22 and 24. We've all been there, around an intimidating adult. There's a natural fear and respect for elders and this played heavily in that cockpit. Maybe the Captain saw the crap on the back of the seat. He may have felt intimated as well, kids scare old people. I read somewhere that they didn't mix up crews with such age differences after this, I'm not sure. That Trident was a cool looking plane, I love the tearshaped window by the cockpit.
The Captain probably was experiencing angina pain for a long time and all that pressure of flying the plane on your own .Noise abatement at the time was a big thing until aircraft design changed .Having a big row before the flight probably exacerbated the pain we will ever know ….Getting into a row because over the noise should never take precedence over air speed ….One of those young men withdrew the droops too early ….I think people forget that to be a pilot it’s being a 100% all the time and no margines of error , it’s why I had no desire to be a pilot .
The pilot "flying" flies the aircraft. The pilot "monitoring" makes the radio calls. If Captain Keys was making the radio calls his co-pilot was flying the aircraft.
@Dennis Wilson again you show what a know nothing you are. The system was so prone to nuisance warnings that it had a dump handle for the system specifically to override it. This had been used on the flight. So much for you assertion that student pilots are told not to use it.
@@peteconrad2077I think you are confusing a ‘warning’ - stick shaker and ‘recovery’ mechanism ie stick pusher. The former could not be overridden but the latter could be by dint of lifting the yellow and black ‘tigers tail’ at the back of the centre console
@@Kathikas1 no. I'm not confused at all. Its a reasonable assumption from the flight path that the stick shaker was ignored since nuisance stick shakes weren't unknown on the trident.
In 1972 Heathrow' westerly runways were 28 Right and 28 Left. they didn't change with magnetic variation to 27 Right and Left until maybe 1980. So 'Bealine 548' departed 28R not 27R. fwiw.
@@geniobarrios • How well I know myself! I knew what you meant, but my sassy side just took over for a brief moment. Usually I’m more well-behaved😇. Hope you have a wonderful and blessed day!
AKA the Staines crash. So horrific in that there were no survivors in the end. Obviously a big case of generation gap and no crew resource management at all. The plane looks very complicated to fly. While I can understand that no one like to hear jet noise all the time, regulations should not be there if it's going to endanger the lives onboard which it may have here.
stalling and not reacting to it properly seems to be one of if not the most common causes of accidents. Shows extremely poor training and/or screening of pilots. It's so basic - if you have a stall warning you (if at all possible) always increase power and never pull up until the warning is cleared. it's so obvious that even if stressed, tired, in pain it should be easy.
I have never flown a plane, but I've figured that out simply by watching these crash videos a few times. I mean seriously? These pilots are supposed to be trained to know this? Why does it continue to be a problem? They should be taught, FORCE YOURSELF to do what seems wrong in a stall situation. So frustrating!!
I'm no expert, but I suppose the contradiction between seeing that you're still moving forward combined with the terrifying event of a possibly stall makes pilots think the stall warning is in error and must be ignored.
You haven’t a clue. Nuisance warnings were common on the trident and they had no reason to suspect it was a real stall. Power doesn’t really help that much either. They didn’t raise the nose, they kept it where it was.
There was no Flight Engineer on the flight. In the U.K. Aircraft required three pilots or two pilots and a Flight Engineer. Pilots at BEA remained qualified as a P2 or P3 and swapped seats on different legs.
Still remember coming back from holiday with my parents at 10 years of age and seeing the wreckage of the Trident in the field adjacent to the road.
I was just down the road at Laleham and returned to Egham that day.
It still amazes me just how close the crash site was to both the A30 and the housing estate.
@@colinprice712 I remember it so well...
I was 12 at the time and lived in Stanwell... I was returning from Cobham and remember the roads being so jammed with 'sightseers' that the junction at 'The Bulldog' became completely logjammed and ambulances from Ashford hospital couldn't get through...
It is remarkable to see the crash site and realise how much worse the disaster could have been if it had crashed over Staines...
@colinprice712 my aunt lived down the road in her cottage and heard the whole thing out her backwards as she was hanging her washing out, she remembered it like s bomb going off during the war, she made tea for dome of the police who came to nearby places to ask if they see or heard anything. 😢
For me it was especially tragic the plain missed our car by 70 or 80 feet almost hitting the street lamps he banked the plain to the left slightly brushing it across the top of the trees to brake its speed so the captain was in control at the time he did contrary to what people say try to land that plain sadly my teacher and my crossing lady miss wheeler lost their lives onboard that aircraft we felt the loss at school so much
@@cyprusgrump Flight 548 actually missed the town of Staines by just 50 yards. Had it flown that further, the crash site would be in the center of town with shops and houses....
Bonechilling. Everything that could go wrong in this Case did, pilot anger, crew mismanagement, failure of Health of a crewman, and poor mechanical design. Truly dreadful. Great video as always allec, rip to all involved!
Indeed, sadly.😪
Shame. The Trident was quite an advanced aircraft a record breaker for its time.
I thought the UK has the best of everything?
I have to defend Captain Key regarding some of the comments made. Yes, he was old school, a world away from the two young co-pilots, he was a very experienced Captain and known to be by the book and dedicated to his job. I certainly feel that he was under stress that day; having been on an airport standby for most of it, the confrontation with the militant co-pilot in the crew room before his flight, then having a very young and inexperienced co-pilot sat next to him along with the poor weather. Like most accidents it was a combination of events that lead up to it. He was four years away from retirement and no doubt keen to maintain his loyalty to the company. In those days before CRM you never questioned the Captain or queried his actions; there was a culture of fear in some ways; all that changed after Papa India; as did crew medicals. Although Key had a medical and was fit to fly, he never undertook a stressed ECG which could have detected his heart condition and likely grounded him. The overwhelming sound of the stall warning horn going off, the stick shaker and the stick push all happening within seconds must have been too much for Key’s heart and being a good pilot he instinctively grabbed the control column to maintain flight not realising that someone had retracted the droops far too early. It was never determined who moved the droop lever; it could have been the co-pilot or Key himself. The Trident was peculiar in the sense that it had two levers one for the droops and one for the flaps; unlike modern jets that have a single lever for both. It was common to mistake the two and some close calls did occur on previous flights. After the accident a bulk was fitted to the droop lever to make if physically impossible to move it below 6,000 feet or 225 knots. If you want to hear the sound of a stall warning horn in a Trident; look up Trident three G-AWZI on UA-cam for a demonstration and also the stick shake. You may be able to appreciate how overwhelming it can be. Next year 2022 will be 50 years since the accident and under the 50 year rule more documentation will be released.
I didn't know there was a 50yr rule?
A very good analysis.
@@rhythmisadancer8394 I thought that such rules were conveniences for covering up politicians' shortcomings.
I’m glad I’m not the only one to think that. Blaming the captain was a total cop out in my opinion, when in reality it was the fault of pretty much everyone except him
That sound is terrifying! Thank God pilot cabins are locked and closed off is all I can say..passengers would never want to hear imminent crash warnings like that.
I was 14 at the time and remember this cash happening. A few of us were on our bikes near the crash and hot footed over to the site. I can see the aircraft to this day having just gone down, it was horrific. The emergency services took their time in getting there as they were given the wrong location. Apparently they were beginning to think that it was a false alarm because they could find the crash site. Eventually they did of course (communication wasn’t brilliant in those days) and we, and many others who got there first were ushered away pretty quickly. A sight I’ll never forget.
......they could NOT find the site!
A work friend of mine, his school friend was photographer for Heathrow at the time, he had to go to take pictures of the crash and he was let through the line to go inside remains of the plane, although it was reported all dead on impact two survivors taken to hospital, this account was not true, on entering the fuselage sections that were sheeted off, he was let in by medics, he said the people strapped in still were moaning groaning, still alive, the medics said don't touch them as there had morphine and we're dieing, sorry but that's what his account was , the medical said there bodies were shattered
Gosh how awful. I guess to save family anguished they said all were dead. How sad.
@@joepullen1050 So a work friends, school friend was the photographer. Sounds like hearsay to me.
@@tightcamper your a troll. They may be talking out their a$$, but we know you are. Actually, your a troublemaker that gets your kicks by sabotaging conversation between grown ups. Go away.
I’m so sorry this was a crew with “bad mojo” among them. No one deserves to die like this. Allec, you are the ONLY Aviation channel that explains in such detail that even I, a non-Aviator, can understand. Thank you for that.
But gets the names of the Airlines wrong
@@MrFloppy131 no one is perfect.
@@MrFloppy131 which ones
@@AllecJoshuaIbay you should be hf you wanna be pilot . Otherwise that in the video happens
@@kirilmihaylov1934 Looks like you are not a pilot then.
I don't like the idea of that noise abatement procedure. Pilots need to be focused on safely controlling the plane. Making them worry about something superfluous to safety going on their record, especially during takeoffs and landings, is frankly ridiculous.
The noise abatement procedure was completely safe as long as the pilot maintained focus on flying the airplane. For whatever reason Captain Key acted like an unfocused random input generator, and his copilot appears to have been spectating with folded hands instead of assisting.
Back during this time, many airports located in high population areas were forced into noise abatement procedures after takeoff by the local municipal jurisdictions due to citizen complaints. To this day, older aircraft with legacy engines are still subject to these restrictions. Fortunately, latest generation engines are much quieter and don’t have to power down as much or at all.
Keep in mind the low-bypass turbojet engines of the time (and still used in many military planes today) were much, much louder than today's high-bypass turbofans. The noise they make at high throttle is pretty intolerable to people on the ground, which is a concern for airports in high-population areas.
@@Primus54 They still have noise abatement at SNA. Trust me it’s still around
@@kingssuck06 I’m sure many airports still have decibel limits, but I believe modern engines can achieve those limits at a higher thrust percent than legacy engines, therefore less chance of hanging too close to stall speeds.
Allec, I would like to express my sincere gratitude to you for all of the effort you spend making these videos. With out exception, I have found each one to be well made, and makes me feel like I am in the cockpit. Great work!
This guy has been putting out nonstop quality content. Not just the animations (that he does and edits himself) but in the information and putting out every single detail to know about each incident. It’s great. I’ve said a few times now that he deserves way more subs. I try to share around cause these videos are awesome
@@pokebois8559 👍 agree with you Jonathan 💯
This channel is much better, no useless information like the pilot's name and the last time he farted.
ua-cam.com/video/8XzHGxElRoA/v-deo.html
Yes
@@Capecodham with a nane like burt you must have caught hell as a kid, and obviously didn't get enough attention from mommy.
The Captain was ex-RAF and very senior to the other crew members. He had a reputation of being a bully and it was the norm at the time, not to question the actions of a senior officer, much like in the armed forces. I saw the glow from this accident as a kid, from my bedroom window. I still remember it vividly
Senior Captain with junior officers who wanted to strike.
He didn't. Typical as this guy paid his dues . He lost control of the cockpit which caused the crash.
He wasn't a bully.
Just old school.
@@747heavyboeing3 Well, that's an opinion and you are entitled to it. My comment is based upon many documentaries that I have watched over the years, as well as opinions from airport workers. Also, my sister used to work for BEA at Heathrow and I worked fir it's later incarnation.
Glow? The aircraft never exploded in a fireball. It just pancaked the ground and oddly did not go up in flames . Funny how you remember something which never happened. I can still recall its callsign as Papa-India.
Very strange how the captain of many years experience and good record was suddenly made out to be a "bully" and "barking orders" at the two 2nd officers who only wanted " better working conditions" but according to the graffiti (that the investigators incredibly failed to disover who was responsible for) and Flavell's half of the argument WHO were the real bullies? and WHO REALLY caused the accident? This was in the days of "The angry Silence" with blatant employee intimidation by militant union members at companies like BEA... to this day unions still betray the workers...very sad!
I live near Heathrow and I use to walk past the area where the plane crashed, this was about 30 years ago, but there was a real eerie quietness walking past that area and I had that feeling I was being watched. I only found out where it actually crashed a few years after walking past this area. Fascinating video, many thanks.
It went into the Staines Gravelpits did it not ?
@@aac7183 I don't understand what you are trying to put across
@@groovydonkey I remember it being reported that the aircraft crashed into the gravel pits at Staines , since you said you lived near there I assumed you could perhaps confirm or refute this
@@aac7183 No by what I remember it was near a wooded are off Heathrow, Stains and the surrounding areas are all located and come under two Boroughs, Hillingdon and Spelthorne, which interconnected with Heathrow Airport. By what I believe and have read about the flight, it bellyflopped into an area, which I believe was a wooded area and still is as far as I know.
@@groovydonkey Then the gravel pits detail must be something I have misheard . The incident , I have since looked it up , was also known as The Staines Air Disaster . Thank you for your polite answer
The captain was stressed and may have had a heart attack or something close. Sad that we'll never know for sure. Shows why you have to keep personal disputes out of the cockpit at all times. So sad. Nice video, Allec-
Exactly, indeed.
All the comments from non Captains.
@@747heavyboeing3 and?
@@badmonkey2222 It’s easy to say not so easy to put into practice
He even had a heart attack at the window!
I remember this very well from the time. At the very hour of this flight, I was flying in a De Haviland Comet from Tangiers to London Gatwick. There was much talk at the time as to whether the current Noise Abatement Climb procedures were correct.
I guess that you flew on a Dan Air Comet 4 into Gatwick Steve.. I worked at Gatwick for 31 years and also remember the Trident GARPI crash very well.. Sad like all air crashes.. Dan Air Flt..DA1008 a Boeing 727-100 GBDAN from.Manchester to Tenerife crashed into a mountain Side on route to Los Rodeos airport TFN. I hope that Alec will do a report on this crash sometime too as it seems to be forgotten being at the time of the world's most awful crash of two B747 a/c at the same airport , Los Rodeos Tenerife North. .The Dan Air crash seems to have been overshadowed by the Pan Am / KLM crash.. Also Alec might report on another Dan Air accident that occurred in the 80's I believe from Manchester to Gerona involving a Comet 4 GAPDN ... Both of these accidents sadly remembered by many.. Thank you Alec..
Everyday, thousands of motorists drive the section of the A30 in Staines past this crash site, most having no idea that England's worst plane crash took place just a hundred yards off the roadway (Pan Am 103 was Britain's worst but that wasn't in England.) When this Trident crashed, it had very little forward speed and sort of pancaked down on the field, and was only about two minutes into its flight from Heathrow. Hundreds of local people came out to see the wreck, in some cases impeding first responders from getting to the site. This crash highlighted the importance of cockpit resource management, among other things, and for junior pilots being able to challenge senior pilots in a non-hostile environment. We'll never know exactly what was going on in the cockpit of BEA 548 but what is known is that the three men up front were flying a perfectly good airplane...which makes this all the more tragic.
Allec always rolling up on us every Thursday night🌙 like the boss he is with always the best work ! We do appreciate you alot
Allec ...and hope flight school is going well for you..you deserve the best in life sincerely!❤💯
It says near Staines. In fact it was in Staines by the A30 main road near what was the Crooked Billet Public House, also when my brother inlaw was a fireman it was his first shout. And my late neibour was one of the first nurses on the seen, and never flew again after that.
Waters Road Recreation Ground , Staines ,
Back at the end of May, I had a heart attack resulting in a quadruple bypass. It was painful but I was still functioning, setting up a glass of aspirin, packing a bag, calling for an ambulance, and even going to the loo. If captain Key was having a heart attack, he was possibly functioning, but unable to make normal radio conversation. The other cockpit crew would probably not know that he was having a heart attack, and thought that his terseness was due to anger, not pain. He really should have said something. Without a CVR it's impossible to know what conversations did take place.
Hope you are doing better.
I've read a lot about this tragic crash. An absolute disaster in every way. Team spirit and teamwork are essential in the cockpit. Good video allec as always.
He got his information a TV show
@@Capecodham nice conspiracy, my friend.
@@JosephStalin-yk2hd nevermind the loser, he's trolling all over this thread long night in the basement I suspect, I don't think his mother loves him very much especially bestowing him with a name like Burt.....
@@badmonkey2222 yeah your right. He’s most likely, wasting his life about some aviation crash investigation channel, how embarrassing, For Burt the turd.
In 1972, I was 15 years old and lived not far from where this sad event took place and still remember seeing the incident on TV news! I also used to cycle many times to Heathrow Airport from my house around that time, to go plane spotting for the day with my mate. Consequently, we used to see many planes taking off from the same runway that this Trident did i.e. Runway 27R. RIP to all!
It was a miracle nobody on the ground was killed, the Trident hit a small field surrounded by houses, I think even overhead cables running across the field were untouched.
One of those early accidents where a CVR would have been so useful. The UK Channel 4 documentary series from the 90s "Black Box" covers this incident really well. A very good video, thank you.
I have that episode on dvd and yes it is very informative.
Agreed. The episode has two contemporaries of the young junior officers (by then senior BA Captains) demonstrating what the crew would have been faced with in a Trident simulator - it was very easy to see how overwhelming the audible and visual warnings would have been. Crucially, both of them point out that rostering two such junior airmen alongside a senior captain as strict as Captain Key would no longer be considered acceptable.
This was the accident that prompted the CAA in the UK to mandate CVRs in transport category aircraft capable of carrying more than a certain number of pasenges or exceeding a given MTOW. At the time it was regarded by crews as a management "spy in the cockpit" but since its introduction it's helped unravel the intricacies of many an accident.
@@stephenrickwood909 It was necessary by all means.
I have the book from the series, and it's the reason why I don't fly so much anymore, when I do fly I try to get a seat towards the tail, why I always check where the emergency exits are and keep my seat belt on all the time, and why T subscribe to this channel. Flying is comparatively very safe, but there's no need not to be an educated passenger.
This accident, JAL123, the Valujet everglades crash, United 232, American 191and the Tenerife disaster all stick in the mind.
Still love DC 10s though.
I remember this crash. Every passenger was found just sitting in their seats, dead. RIP
David: How did they die?
@@1harryrobert Impact injuries, usually broken necks.
@@1harryrobert The plane belly flopped onto the ground. As they were strapped in their spinal column was pushed into their brain and some broke their necks at the same time.
@@davidjma7226 I though being buckled in helped you survive an accident.
@@tomservo56954 the plane literally slammed into the ground. There was almost no chance flr survival either way. The seatbelt did nothing.
I'm in the UK, always watching plane crash simulations and yet I'd never heard of this! So sad, brilliant video as always though!
Great video Allec, one I didnt know much about until now...thanks again, always worthy of a thumbs up.
Fatal mixture of human stress, both mentally and physically, inexperience and poor technical design. Under such condition, if something can go wrong, it will go wrong.
R.I.P.
Unfortunately, yes.
I was about 10 when this happened and remember it well. The broken wreckage photos were all over the newspapers. It's amazing that no one seemed to see it crash.
i did it missed our car by 70 or 80 feet
Thank you Allec for your remarkable video, but also it’s sad to see plane ✈️ crash lost lives,
An excellent documentary on this crash came out around 1989. Like Alec here, it explained the toxic pilot group dynamics going on at BEA at that time.
Capt Key was a former WWII RAF bomber pilot who’s seniority most likely formed his opinions against the younger pilot group seeking better working conditions. The doc I watched did mention that Capt Keys demeanor on that flight may have had him barking out orders to two highly inexperienced 2nd officers who dared not cross him.
Such a sad and extremely unfortunate confluence of events that brought down this jet.
Younger pilots that hadn't paid their dues.
Very strange how the captain of many years experience and good record was suddenly made out to be a "bully" and "barking orders" at the two 2nd officers who only wanted " better working conditions" but according to the graffiti (that the investigators incredibly failed to disover who was responsible for) and Flavell's half of the argument WHO were the real bullies? and WHO REALLY caused the accident? This was in the days of "The angry Silence" with blatant employee intimidation by militant union members at companies like BEA... to this day unions still betray the workers...very sad!
Whose, not who's.
Pure incompetence. The airplane tried to save them multiple times and yet apparently with a pilot, co-pilot, flight engineer and extra jump seat pilot, NOT ONE could figure out the reason for the stall and, indeed, just sat there while INCORRECT FLIGHT CONTROL INPUTS were shoved in by the pilot. Insane.
Indeed.
I don't normally comment on your videos, but they are of exceptional quality and thank you.
I remember the Staines crash very well. I was 5 and my Mum was in a local hospital at the time, in Staines.
I remember saying to my dad, why was there so many emergency vehicles driving past.
It was on the news when we got home.
Take care, Jeff
This channel is much better, no useless information like the pilot's name and the last time he farted.
ua-cam.com/video/8XzHGxElRoA/v-deo.html
@@Capecodham sorry, but no
I can definitely see the two “kids” in the cockpit being intimidated by the captain. I’m retired law enforcement and I was 22 when I got hired. I would’ve never dreamed of standing up to a senior officer, let alone an officer with rank. Most of them were Vietnam Vets and weren’t about to take any crap from a rookie.
I can remember such Authoritarian Old Chieftains very well, too. It was another time and another generation. But flying an airplane is teamwork - especially when something goes wrong.
I suggest you read about operation Chastise in WW2. The Commander of the 617 Squadron flying the raid was age 24. Hardly children!
Captain Key was a former RAF pilot during WW2. Now that's what I call a vet.
Well, we should also remember, that this was a time, b4 there was anything called CRM. And from the graffiti found in the remains of the cockpit, looks like the younger officers were too busy behaving like schoolboys to actually do their jobs.
I am by no means holding the captain blameless, but theres plenty of blame to go around, and I always find it appalling, when 1 person is dragged out as a scapegoat. Its so dishonest, not just by the known facts of this case, but in general, as there is never just 1 reason for an accident, unless somebody deliberately crashes the plane, which was not the case here.
This was UK not usa
Great video as always-I enjoy when you are able to add photos of the crew as we get a lil more “insider” stuff. Thanks again for your hard work and dedication.
Hope your aviation career is going well!
The crash of Trident 1C G-ARPI had a huge impact on UK aviation. To this day at Heathrow it is still a talking point that raises it's head every so often.....
Agreed.
Are you the Tony P that flies at BA?
This was the most informative video I have seen about this sad crash. Thank you for posting.
The age of the first and second officer astonishes me.
Not that young pilots are inherently bad, but the lack of experience would suggest to me that strong backup is prudent. Two relative novices in the cockpit? I'd have wanted to switch one out for someone with more experience.
I also picked up on that. Was there really 22 year old co pilots around back in the early 70’s? The saying, if you are good enough, you are old enough springs to mind, but 22 years seems quite young to me…..Still, great video with a very detailed explanation highlighting the events leading up to this tragedy….
It was very common back then.
@@rrknl5187
Still is now, I know Captains in their twenties and one F-18 pilot
@@DropdudeJohn there are very very very few captains in their 20s flying commercial airlines.
@@badmonkey2222
I personally know three, with the UK having many in house airline training schemes it really isn't that unusual to encounter captains in their twenties
A terrible day indeed….I believe the positioning crew member was found stretched out across the controls trying to intervene but too late….
Thanks Allec. Superb as usual. Flying tomorrow. Have no idea why I am watching this but at least it is a Qantas 737. Should be OK.
Wow. That was interesting! Nice work, Allec!! 💕✈💕✈💕✈
This channel is much better, no useless information like the pilot's name and the last time he farted.
ua-cam.com/video/8XzHGxElRoA/v-deo.html
@@Capecodham sorry, but no
They never throttled up after their noise abatement routine did they? If not the first officer should have done it, they were doomed without enough thrust, but when cleared to climb to 6,000 feet he throttled back. That makes no sense whatever so it's not all on the beleaguered captain. It's sad. I'm surprised the throttle settings weren't even discussed.
Captain key was screaming in there at them and making them uncomfortable. But keys heart was about to explode.and it fell out in the terminal. He was living on the blood in his head. And they had a brain dead in the jump seat (dead head) but no leg mentals
@@neillp3827 Huh? Were you there?
@@Primus54 yes, key nearly exploded before the crash. He was shouting at a guy in the canteen I.was admin for bea. Leg mental can't fly planes. Mrs key cooked everything in lard. After the plane crash they found keys moustache on its own. It had come off in the crash and his wife put it on the mantle piece
@@neillp3827 What's a leg mental ? I like the idea of the memorial moustache BTW..
@@buckfaststradler4629 like head mental but on the legs
A former fellow-worker on the railways on the Slough Reading stretch had witnessed this and confessed he still "wasnt the better of it", when he told me 2 years later.
For those of you downplaying Allec Joshua Ibay need to realize that no one knew of the Flight Channel before he started posting these videos and neither did anyone have any interest besides Air Crash Investigations. The Flight Channel is great in its own right. However, the incidents are a recreation of what Allec puts on his channel with a newer flight simulator software. This is straight to the point and no multiple camera angles that take away the veracity of the incident. So, for those who love TheFlightChannel, stick to it. However, please refrain from downplaying someone else’s work. These recreation are not a simple task. Keep it up, Allec.
It wasn't just a series of unusual aviation errors or unfortunate coincidences that downed this plane and caused an awful tragedy - but a medical condition compounded by a pre flight emotional outburst leading to a sour cockpit and almost unavoidable mental distress withheld from the other inexperienced crew.
This made me see this tragedy more clearly than ever before: and I now feel enormous sympathy for EVERYONE on board.
I meant to walk to the site in recent years, and am only less than 2 miles away this evening.
Incidentally, I'm still flummoxed they were in the air a considerable time and yet only made it to Staines - a stones throw away.
I was walking to a 'blind date' at the far end of Egham when the crash happened. The date never happened. At the roundabout at the bottom of Egham hill a stream of traffic wa travelling towards Staines. I was surprised to see how many mothers were taking the children to rubberneck as the accident. The increased traffic was one reason for delays in ambulances reaching the crash site. It was just after five in the evening, rush hour, and in any case all roads around Heathrow were often congested. The M25 was supposed to improve this. There was no emergency helicopter at Heathrow in those days. A work colleague had a private ambulance, when he got there the passengers looked normal except for blood from noses and ears, all dead, except for, he said, one or two including a baby or small child. But none could be got to Ashford hospital. It was said that the pilots deliberately placed the plane into the field; literally seconds later it would have hit residential houses, but I doubt this as the plane was stalled and probably could not manouvre.
Hello Bill,
I am currently doing a project on the Staines Air Disaster and I have been searching through so many recollections from people who witnessed this incident in order to assist in my work. Your narrative is extremely interesting and I would like to include it in my work. I would like to ask if this would be okay with you and whether you had any more memories of that day which you would be happy to share?
Thank You!
Incredible. Did neither of the other pilots look at the airspeed and throttle settings?
Once into a crisis, "tunnel vision" on the perceived casualty is very common. It takes deep training to reliably overcome the tendency - not something I'd expect the two VERY young crew to have, and which an already-compromised captain was unlikely to have, at that point, either.
Add in disrupted training, poor crew cohesion, and poor ergonomic design, and yeah, this is almost inevitable.
@@lairdcummings9092 It is odd thou, I would think that the ingrained response to a stall is to push the nose down and increase the throttles to full. But, I'm not a pilot, I just play one on the internet. 😉
@@HitechProductions maybe they didn't want a naughty mark on their record for making too much noise?
The throttle isn’t relevant.
@@HitechProductions you'd think. Throttles forward, yoke forward to break a stall. Even at low altitude. Pilot incapacity due to health crisis is one thing, but the Copilot lapse of action is a real head scratcher. You can find a new job, but you only get one life. Unless the Hindus are right about reincarnation of course.
I always think of the passengers and how they are sitting there just wanting to get from point A to point B and not knowing they are moments away from death ...
Yes.
My friend's Father was on this flight. I find the majority of comments made by mostly ignorant keyboard warriors pretty distasteful. Even the opening shot depicts a Trident 2 not the correct type.
Was the fear of failing noise abatement a reason for not adding more power as the plane went into stall?
It was a perfect storm of environmental, social and physical stressors. The goal of every airline should be to maintain a sterile flight deck, everything else, including maintenance and training, follows.
This aircraft was renowned for the noise on take-off.
As airports in the UK grew in size, there was increasing pressure on them to do something about noise pollution as local inhabitants were starting to gain a collective voice.
If they failed to throttle back after 90 secs, the airline would subsequently receive a fine, I believe. Often the engineer timed it to the second with a stopwatch in order to maximise airspeed/altitude due to the relative poor power output on this aircraft.
I suspect that was merely the reason the aircraft wasn't at an appropriate droop-flaps-up climbing speed sooner, spelling doom for the craft when the droop flaps were retracted by mistake.
@@AnalogueInTheUK Exactly. This aircraft had the power output of a hair dryer (yes, I exaggerate...but not by much) and they used all the thrust they could for as long as they could. Thanks for reminding us of the context at that time.
@@Neal_Schier and those old Legacy engines were loud as fk...
I can only imagine what a CVR would have picked up, not a healthy work relationship at all & a tragic ending!
I remember this accident - and i remember the distinctive noise on take off a trident made, let alone the smoke. RIP all
I remember this accident. I think there were a lot of rubberneckers who drove out to the site. I don't think the plane caught fire. After the emergency services turned up some of the leaking fuel ignited and caused a lot of panic to the sightseers. There was an inquiry into that. I think it was over an hour after the crash! Also there were questions asked about a can of aerosol found in the cockpit.
Before CRM and with a steep cockpit gradient. Also significant to a deep stall is the Trident’s T tail in the wing’s shadow during high pitch up.
crm?
@@Capecodham crm? 🤣
I was 5 years of age, back in 1972, and we had just moved to Sunningdale, Berkshire, by the A30. We used to drive to my grandparents' house in Harrow, and I remember passing the crash site, in Staines, by the reservoir. That would have been a few days after the tragedy.
Wow... the fact that 2 people initially survived this crash.
When drive an airplane, there's a lot of things need to keep: concentration and anger management. Here, the crew failed both of it.
fly*
BAE Trident was a pretty unique air craft. Very fast but short range (Mach 0.9?) No fatalities through failure of the aircraft. Named Trident because it had triple redundancy in the hydraulic systems.
Most of the other issues have been addressed in the comments, but I would just like to add that I am glad investigators attempted to ascertain who scribbled hateful graffiti on the aircraft tables. This childish and distracting behavior has NO place among members of a flight crew, and the guilty party should be investigated and disciplined. There are proper channels through which crew members can voice their concerns. The ONLY concern of ALL crew members once having boarded the aircraft MUST be safe execution of the flight...innocent souls are depending on it. The graffiti proves that the vengeful attitude of one of the crew members was indeed coming on board the aircraft with him.
RIP to all who perished.
Excellent video by Allec, as always.
Allec: I just want to let you know that your videos' are excellent. My only complaint against them is that the situations you depict actually happened, and in far to many cases innocent lives were lost (obviously NOT your fault!). You do good work! Keep it up!
Very well done and while I still wish you’d make the words easier to read some times I appreciate your attention to detail and the accurate explanation of events very well done sir👍🏻👌🏻💯
This channel is much better, no useless information like the pilot's name and the last time he farted.
ua-cam.com/video/8XzHGxElRoA/v-deo.html
@@Capecodham this channel is better than that useless one, from your link.
@@JosephStalin-yk2hd How?
@@Capecodham get lost burt, didn't your mother teach you any manners, going onto somebody else's channel trying to promote somebody else's crappy channel, you're all over this thread with that crap get lost, have some respect, if you don't like it get out....
I was 13 when this happened and recall hearing about it on the 5 o clock radio news and then seeing it on the 6 o clock news on the TV. We had only recently got our first TV and so it was amazing to see something that had only happened two hours earlier. Amazing there was no fire as it must have been loaded with fuel.
On a side note here? Great job with the video Allec. You're a busy man now I'm betting- your video quality hasn't changed- top notch- My rant was for the scenario presented, and in no way reflects on anything you did- just to clarify, lol.
This happened within my lifetime and I'm astonished I've never heard of it until today.
Brilliant simulation. And brilliant, poignant music to accompany the sad real-life pictures.
Great Video Alec! I remember seeing the crash pics on the front pages of newspapers! I have flown on 2 Tridents (BEA & Channel Airways) a very fast and excellent plane apart from being rather small! I believe a Test crew stalled one in Norfolk UK and lost their lives while investigating the stall thresholds!
Interesting never heard of that there were a couple of near misses with a deep stall with the trident
@@stuartrichardson5699 G-ARPY was lost in the test accident. G-ARPI was the Trident that crashed at Staines. Both were Trident 1Cs. The simulation depicts a Trident 2E G-AVFF. The Trident 2E had a number of changes compared to the 1C. It had more powerful engines and it had proper leading edge slats (as can be seen in the simulation),. The 1C had simpler hinged leading edges to the wings, known as "droops".
Finally dude ! :-) Only BOAC Flight 911 and Air Canada Flight 621 to go, on my bucket list for this channel now :-)
How does an experienced pilot (or even in inexperienced one) pull back on the stick when warned of an impending stall?
The captain had a heart attack while the plane was crashing hence he wasn't able to act properly.
Without the CVR do we really know who was flying the plane when it got in trouble?
I wonder about the technical issue on the runway as well.
@@paulcooper8818 Complete speculation: Did the big argument re-ignite at the end of the runway? As you said, without CVR we'll never know.
@@paulcooper8818 I was about to say the same thing, what was the technical issue? Or was it the captain continuing to chew someone out? Will never know with no CVR.
Apart from the issues surrounding Captain Key's health there was a lack of trust in the stall warning system due to a couple of false alarms in previous years; it was not unknown for BEA crews to disable the equipment because they believed it to be unreliable. Captain Key may well have thought that the warnings on this occasion were spurious. It's a very complex story but broadly, BEA was far from an efficient airline at the time and it's not too difficult to find accounts of bad practice within the organisation if you search..........up to the reader as to whether they believe it, of course.
Wow, thanks for explaining all the details, Allec. Stress does cause bad judgment and impacts health. Very sad
Indeed.
Am I the only one wondering about the technical issues happening on the runway just before takeoff? Also I'm surprised to learn there was no CVR on board the plane, but then since it was 1972 maybe they weren't required yet on airplanes at that time? A CVR would have been helpful in this investigation. Thanks for bringing this story to us Mr. Allec.
CVRs were not required or common in UK aircraft at the time. They became mandatory as a direct result of this accident. The lack of insight into exactly what happened was a serious handicap to the investigation.
@@michaelevans205 Thank you so much for the helpful information Michael. Appreciated.
Hey Allec, you should check out VASP flight 375, a crazy suicidal mission attempt that happened here in Brasil in the 80s. The captain did a barrel roll and a spin dive with a 737 (both never attempted before with that kind of aircraft) trying to knockout the hijacker.
one of the best eps in a while
eps?
@@Capecodham The show called Mayday made an episode about this accident.
@@animegeek2488 Speaking of mayday how do I watch the episodes, is on Netflix or free on UA-cam
@@animegeek2488 That is where he steals his information for his videos.
@@Capecodham eps stands for episodes. you gotta look that up on your own bro, i cant hold your hand and neither can the rest of the world
A very sad and tragic accident. RIP.
As others in this thread stated; this situation was a textbook example of a 'perfect storm'. RIP to all
Multiple things are usually required to bring about an airplane crash. In this case, everything happened.
Yes, indeed, unfortunately.
I enjoy your story of this crash.
I have seen another, more dramatic infotainment version.
Just to add a comment rather than a reply to a comment. Someone, probably the P2, retracted the Droops at 62 kts below the minimum retract speed of 225 kts causing an immediate Stall. At this point the only action that could stop the airplane from crashing was to extend the Droops. No amount of power, and perfect flying of pitch would result in enough airspeed for the wing to provide lift to fly plus the fact the sink rate could not be reversed before impact, they were just too low at under 2000’. Possibly it would work if they had been at FL200.
We subsequently re-enacted the event in the simulator. As I recall if the droop scenario could be corrected then a recovery could be made from a relatively low altitude but it did rely on the crew appreciating that the droops were up instead of down
@@Kathikas1 That is what I said. All the comments in the accident report about overriding the stick push mean nothing. The only possible recovery was to return the airplane to its previous configuration, Droops Extended. There was zero possibility of recovery if the droops were not extended even if every thing else was done perfectly.
This incident was the basis of an episode of Air Disasters.
Yes, indeed, a very good one.
The fact two people initially survived still shocks me.
Great video like always love the og sim gives me lots of nostalgia
og? sim?
@@Capecodham og? sim? 🤣
I'm probably among only a few who felt sorry for the captain,
Yes, he should never have got on the plane at all, let alone fly it. He would have been experiencing chest pains and should have aborted the flight. He was ultimately responsible for this tragedy.
Great video as always, but so senseless and tragic.
So how is flight school going?
Glad I didn't prematurely make a comment only half way through the video.
Error number one. The runway was 28R. It was only renumbered due to changes in magnetic north in circa 87/88.
Had a CVR been installed, it probably would have had: "All right, what's all this then!??!" picked up seconds before the end of the recording🕵
cvr?
@@Capecodham Cockpit Voice Recorder. Sadly, the most common "last words" spoken by crew just before a fatal crash is "Shit!". Not joking, that is from hundreds of recordings.
@@tvideo1189 I wonder what he did with the time he saved not typing ockpit oice ecorder?
@@Capecodham CVR is a common standard abbreviation in aviation - like FDR, TOGA, STOL, ATC, FO, RWY and so on.
@@Capecodham imagine being upset, over a “shortened” word lmao.
Hi Alec. Thank you so much for the video. I love your video's. They are really insightful.
May I please ask you to make a video about Hansie Cronje's plane crash of 2002 in George, South Africa.
I would love to see an animation of it.
Thank you so much and keep posting 🙂
I knew as soon as they touched the droops at that air speed, they were doomed to a fatal belly flop. Tragic 😔
The co-pilots were so young, 22 and 24. We've all been there, around an intimidating adult. There's a natural fear and respect for elders and this played heavily in that cockpit. Maybe the Captain saw the crap on the back of the seat. He may have felt intimated as well, kids scare old people. I read somewhere that they didn't mix up crews with such age differences after this, I'm not sure.
That Trident was a cool looking plane, I love the tearshaped window by the cockpit.
The Captain probably was experiencing angina pain for a long time and all that pressure of flying the plane on your own .Noise abatement at the time was a big thing until aircraft design changed .Having a big row before the flight probably exacerbated the pain we will ever know ….Getting into a row because over the noise should never take precedence over air speed ….One of those young men withdrew the droops too early ….I think people forget that to be a pilot it’s being a 100% all the time and no margines of error , it’s why I had no desire to be a pilot .
@@stuartrichardson5699 same here, my dad was a pilot and I saw what it did to him stress wise, no way not me...
12:19 only if you count both airline and incident on British soil. Deadliest in uk is Lockerbie. Deadliest involving UK airline is that dan air flight
Lockerbie was the deadliest plane crash on British soil, but it was a terrorist attack not an accidental crash.
I still find it shocking that anyone had survived the initial impact. Thing was crippled.
Never heard much more about the Trident after this crash......
Avionics-wise, the Trident was about 15 years ahead of its time - full triplex autopilot, and the first civilian-certified CatIII autoland system.
This crash is why CVRs are now mandatory on transport category aircraft in the UK.
Thanks for another interesting, dramatic, and historically prescient video Allec! You're the best!
The pilot "flying" flies the aircraft. The pilot "monitoring" makes the radio calls. If Captain Keys was making the radio calls his co-pilot was flying the aircraft.
when a stick shaker activates , you pull back on the stick ...brilliant idea
That still happens more often than you might think.
They didn’t. They regarded it as a nuisance warning (common in those days) and continued as they were.
@Dennis Wilson again you show what a know nothing you are. The system was so prone to nuisance warnings that it had a dump handle for the system specifically to override it. This had been used on the flight. So much for you assertion that student pilots are told not to use it.
@@peteconrad2077I think you are confusing a ‘warning’ - stick shaker and ‘recovery’ mechanism ie stick pusher. The former could not be overridden but the latter could be by dint of lifting the yellow and black ‘tigers tail’ at the back of the centre console
@@Kathikas1 no. I'm not confused at all. Its a reasonable assumption from the flight path that the stick shaker was ignored since nuisance stick shakes weren't unknown on the trident.
That aircraft had it's tail section knocked off twice. Spooky.
This year is the 50th anniversary , Rip to those innocent people on board :(
To hell with that Capt and the noise abatement procedure, FO should have added full power and redeploy droops.
In 1972 Heathrow' westerly runways were 28 Right and 28 Left. they didn't change with magnetic variation to 27 Right and Left until maybe 1980. So 'Bealine 548' departed 28R not 27R. fwiw.
How cool! Being the first to see the video. Great wok, Mr. Ibay.
Yes, so we can appreciate Allec’s cooking skills, but do you like his work?
(Just kidding with you. Couldn’t resist😁)
@@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043 Ugh. Typos… 🤭😆🤣😂
@@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043 lol
I was first
@@geniobarrios • How well I know myself! I knew what you meant, but my sassy side just took over for a brief moment. Usually I’m more well-behaved😇. Hope you have a wonderful and blessed day!
AKA the Staines crash. So horrific in that there were no survivors in the end. Obviously a big case of generation gap and no crew resource management at all.
The plane looks very complicated to fly. While I can understand that no one like to hear jet noise all the time, regulations should not be there if it's going to endanger the lives onboard which it may have here.
Those Tridents were noisy fuckers - they used to take off over the place I worked in the early 70's - couldn't hear yourself speak for about a minute
@@buckfaststradler4629 I remember 707s being pretty loud until they put hush fans on them. The Convair 990s were both loud and very smokey.
stalling and not reacting to it properly seems to be one of if not the most common causes of accidents. Shows extremely poor training and/or screening of pilots. It's so basic - if you have a stall warning you (if at all possible) always increase power and never pull up until the warning is cleared.
it's so obvious that even if stressed, tired, in pain it should be easy.
I have never flown a plane, but I've figured that out simply by watching these crash videos a few times. I mean seriously? These pilots are supposed to be trained to know this? Why does it continue to be a problem? They should be taught, FORCE YOURSELF to do what seems wrong in a stall situation. So frustrating!!
I'm no expert, but I suppose the contradiction between seeing that you're still moving forward combined with the terrifying event of a possibly stall makes pilots think the stall warning is in error and must be ignored.
You haven’t a clue. Nuisance warnings were common on the trident and they had no reason to suspect it was a real stall. Power doesn’t really help that much either. They didn’t raise the nose, they kept it where it was.
First officer and flight engineer both very young and likely cowed by the attitude and reputation of the pilot
There was no Flight Engineer on the flight. In the U.K. Aircraft required three pilots or two pilots and a Flight Engineer. Pilots at BEA remained qualified as a P2 or P3 and swapped seats on different legs.
Thank you.
Wow...he was so stressed he crashed their airplane??? Boy...he showed them didn't he!
Man. They nearly hit a small town. If they would have crashed into there. That would be worse then how it ended now.
They nearly hit, not nearly missed.
Worse than, not worse then.
@@duanehorton4680 Are you my dad?. no? then kindly shut up.