There is No Algorithm for Artists on Instagram/YouTube

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  • Опубліковано 23 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 78

  • @juliabazanska
    @juliabazanska Місяць тому +13

    "Embrace being an amateur" is exactly what I did. I've come to accept that the times of my "art internet" are over. I was a deviantART user since 2003, I'm used to staring at a picture for a while, analysing it, letting it sink in. I have no interest whatsoever in what the author looks like. I only have interest in who the artist is as a person once I've gotten to know their art. Fast-paced videos annoy me. Turn-around reveals annoy me. Artists showing their face for five seconds before showing their art annoys me. I have no interest in this shallow image-based gimmicky art community. I don't do fan-art. I tried making reels for well over a year and had moderate success for a while but I hated every second of it (not to mention about 50% of the new followers I got from reels were bots, and of the remaining 50% about 40% never even saw my content again). You can't be a genuine creator in an environment you don't agree with on a fundamental level.

  • @annelivingstonart
    @annelivingstonart Місяць тому +4

    Love where you are going with this, Morgue! Thought-provoking video essay, and watching you paint. This is a winning combination; I like how you think AND your art. After your last video I was concerned that you wouldn't continue to show art vids on here and I'm glad you found a way that worked for you to incorporate it. BTW frankly, watching you make your art makes me want to purchase it, even though (and especially because) I'm an artist too!

  • @moderndayjames
    @moderndayjames Місяць тому +6

    I think it's so important to just make stuff regardless of the level of engagement. Stay principled and make stuff that you'd like to watch

  • @JethroCornielius
    @JethroCornielius Місяць тому +13

    Morgue makes cool gouache portraits! I've watched videos about the dead internet theory, but never heard anyone talk about how much of the internet is literally children. You came at this topic from a different angle than I normally would see from others, so I think you're doing a pretty damn good job with these essays! The art you were making was great and I'm glad that you found a way to show your art process while also doing an essay! LONG LIVE THE FROG KING!!! 🐸

    • @morguedesign
      @morguedesign  Місяць тому +2

      aw thank you! I really appreciate that

  • @jenjencartridge
    @jenjencartridge Місяць тому +2

    The amateur part made me cry out of cuteness and genuine wholesomeness

  • @theindiejurnee
    @theindiejurnee Місяць тому +24

    The algorithm = audience...it's just that simple. People like what they like and respond to what they like. Think about your own content. You made a new style of content that a new group of people were drawn to, and then they watched. They responded to what you put out in the world. Sometimes what we want to do, isn't what people want from us. Just like those creators that you were frustrated with also now do content that worked, even though they started with something different. Just like you, they followed the audience...you're more alike than you may realize.

    • @juliabazanska
      @juliabazanska Місяць тому +5

      There is one caveat with what you said... This forms an obligation on the audience to react to EVERYTHING a creator puts out under threat of never seeing their content again. This isn't a genuine connection, this is blackmail. I've had many creators disappear from my algorithmic feed on IG because I didn't engage with a post of theirs. They're still in my following feed, but IG saw I scrolled past a post from them and yeeted them from my default feed. This is bad for me as a viewer and bad for them as a creator because the system penalises creators for audiences not engaging. This is not normal.

    • @DeeAreDee
      @DeeAreDee 27 днів тому

      "Just like you, they followed the audience...you're more alike than you may realize."
      I don't necessarily think Morgue would disagree with this. However, the fundamental point is not necessarily to attack creators like Kelsey, but to spread awareness that we ARE, for better or worse, in an environment that is not conducive to the natural success of artists at large. Artists in 2024 online exist in a matrix of incentives, and we need to have a discussion about what these incentives are and how they make it profitable to make money off the backs of our own, enriching small numbers of creators by giving the audience- other artists- what they like, which is business advice (which, in the modern age, is how to do what the successful creator does, which is to make money off the backs of other artists).
      This is not sustainable and leads to the demoralization of our community.

  • @TheStreetsOfOurLives
    @TheStreetsOfOurLives Місяць тому +2

    Watching you paint while hearing your calm voice, explain these insights is quite relaxing while also enlightening.
    Thanks Morgan ☺️

  • @clairewulf
    @clairewulf Місяць тому +5

    online self censorship is one of the most depressing things about being alive right now, and i blame tiktok. people typing "l3$bean" for lesbian makes me physically angry. like conservatives spends billions of dollars and countless hours trying to enforce censorship and now people are lining up to do it to themselves.

  • @BookishTexan
    @BookishTexan Місяць тому +15

    It seems like you’ve found a way to make money as an artist on UA-cam: Make videos about UA-cam.

    • @morguedesign
      @morguedesign  Місяць тому +1

      there won't be any more videos about youtube

    • @zah936
      @zah936 2 дні тому

      ​@@morguedesign You are too sensitive.

  • @NightStarGamer
    @NightStarGamer Місяць тому +2

    I really liked your perspective on this. Also, you sighing at your ladder joke made me laugh harder than it probably should have.
    To add to the conversation, I've been making content off and on for over a decade now. I've had my fair share of tussles with the algorithm.
    But as I've been reflecting on the past year of getting back into it. I realized enthusiasm goes both ways.
    I found I'm more likely to watch someone if whatever they're doing genuinely interests them. Because i believe that excitement shows in their work, no matter what content they make.
    On the flip side, I've found that when i'm doing something, i enjoy be it streaming or Let’s Playing a game i like or I'm interested in, streaming my art process or art studies or whatever else.
    I tend to feel better about myself, and i find more of the time those videos do better.
    I'm sure other things factor into this as well, but it's just something i felt was worth noting. Since it's along the lines of it's people not algorithm.
    But I've rambled long enough.
    I hope Morgue you have a good week and the same goes for anyone else reading this.

  • @ren_sensei
    @ren_sensei Місяць тому +4

    The argument of saying no algorithm can be the same as blaming the algorithm and not the quality of your own content. Because while we can't control algo, we still can do something with our marketing skills. For example, packaging your brand to appeal to certain demography, encouraging engagements, understanding the best time to interact etc. All which consider as parameters to the platforms' algo.

    • @ren_sensei
      @ren_sensei Місяць тому

      @@solarydays Any skills can be misused manipulatively, my point was not to abuse them but simply the acknowledgement of relevant skillsets in any objectives is better than choosing to be ignorant about it.

    • @ren_sensei
      @ren_sensei Місяць тому +1

      ​@@solarydaysThen we both are making different points. So it would be meaningless and illogical to argue on a different ground.

    • @ren_sensei
      @ren_sensei Місяць тому

      ​@@solarydaysOn the side note, I do realize that there are many gurus who prey on desperation, kids and teenagers are not the only ones susceptible to this. But there's not much discussion on talking what's too much and too little surrounding these topics.

    • @ren_sensei
      @ren_sensei Місяць тому

      ​@@solarydays I feel that you have completely missed my point.

    • @ren_sensei
      @ren_sensei Місяць тому

      @@solarydays Your first reply was just a response to one of the many examples I use to illustrate the usefulness of marketing skills. I would love to engage more but because it didn't touch the main point, it's hard to see meaningful progression with this argument. I'm gonna continue doing my art, you have fun too 😌👍

  • @kristinaalmazan2678
    @kristinaalmazan2678 Місяць тому +3

    Love your perspective and your art. I subscribed for these reasons, and not just because an algorithm told me too 😂. I just ordered some of your prints and super excited to receive them. My partner and I love Pedro Pascal and I think these will make perfect gifts for his birthday. Thank you for being authentic and real!

    • @morguedesign
      @morguedesign  Місяць тому

      thank you! i'm so excited for y'all to have the artwork

  • @KittyPanteraArt
    @KittyPanteraArt Місяць тому

    I will rewatch this, just to check out how you've drawn the water so beautifully! Water is so hard do paint and you really nailed it! And your painting style is really beautiful too!!

  • @bellaluce7088
    @bellaluce7088 28 днів тому

    I appreciate your humor so much. 😄 Yes to passion projects! 😻

  • @Drawperfectcircles
    @Drawperfectcircles Місяць тому +5

    NOTE: He made a clear mistake of thinking like UA-cam gurus. First of all, don’t equate people to bots, algorithm is not audience. There is indeed algorithms, and they do choose to promote based on views and subscribers, this has been proven time and time again. And every app has its own way to evaluating contents before delivery.
    Yes, you can simply call them Content Delivery Systems(CDS). Twitter Algo promotes political posts to more views exactly because it can sell to advertisers for longer. Instagram evaluates media metadata information before even considering the description and texts. A high quality video gets more reach. This has been proven.
    And yes, the audience does determine whether they like something or not. BUT WHAT IF YOU POST SOMETHING AND THE FIRST AND ONLY PERSON IT SHOWED TO SIMPLY HAS NO INTEREST IN SUCH MEDIA.

  • @adriennepriceart
    @adriennepriceart Місяць тому +1

    Good point about the kids, and they do like things that are super flashy and fast paced.
    I enjoyed watching you painting! So did my 5 month old baby lol.
    I like how intentional you are and I just want to say, I was a subscriber before your viral video.
    As Austin Kleon says, not every hobby has to make money. I think many artists fall into this because they want a full time job. I knew I'd never be good enough to be a full time artist and so, I have a full time job. But that job fuels me to make art so it's actually a nice - I would say ouroboros but my reference is actual the Auryn from Neverending Story.
    One last thing, I watch UA-cam on my TV. Which means I don't look at the comments much or take the time to comment but I'm doing it now because you deserve the engagement 😊
    Best of luck

  • @mald379
    @mald379 Місяць тому +5

    Hi. I work in marketing, and algorythm is definitely a real thing. Every couple of years we go into a meeting with representatives of meta or tiktok and they give us the best practices for content or ads for their platforms. they definitely do surpress unwanted behaviours - sometimes its something. because users dont like it but sometimes definitely something that doesnt benefit the company - for example you cant post the same content for tik tok and instagram, because instagram got offended and wants people to use their build in tools. same for tik tok. ( i genuinely dont know if this has changed now, because i moved team and lost track of the newest isights, but that was situation before AI) The realest example is how we had to redefine meaning of word "Grape" or (self) exit. those are real issues that should not be masked, yet here we are because of the demotization.

  • @DeeAreDee
    @DeeAreDee 27 днів тому

    you're absolutely right. there has to be an awareness in our community that we cannot ALL succeed by marketing to each other. It's not sustianable, it's incestuous, it isn't contributing to our growth because to grow we need a flow of resources from outside in, not inside-around.
    This is the biggest barrier that is keeping me from re-starting my painting presence online. I want to make money but I don't want to make it off the backs of other artists. Courses are fine, getting paid for mentorship is fine, but it cannot be the ENTIRE thing. And it has become the entire thing. All it does is enrich the lucky few and result in the disappointment of innumerable young artists whose first introduction to how to make money as an artist tips is Art UA-camrs who are teaching them how to be Art UA-camrs.
    This is profoundly backwards for the growth of our communities. We need to be, as a community, finding ways to enrich the community with resources from outside of it.

  • @HarmoniaAAxyridis
    @HarmoniaAAxyridis Місяць тому +1

    Still not all the way through your video (and I'm really enjoying it) but a quick side not before I forget is that IG most likely does shadow-ban self promotion because it wants you to use their paid add system (which is a horrible idea, one you use it it wants you to keep using it so it wont show your content naturally anymore). The last time I talked about this with someone that is hyper aware of what the algorithm likes was a long while ago so I can't remember exactly what they said, but they definitely noticed that in the past year that this did affect reach. And they and I totally agree about children deciding the algorithm/it being designed around them... sadly. Thanx for your videos!

    • @HarmoniaAAxyridis
      @HarmoniaAAxyridis Місяць тому +1

      one more thing, its very late and i'll finish watching this tomorrow but before I forget. The algorithm isn't necessarily working "against us" but it is not working with us as content creators anymore. It is rewarding what will keep peoples attention on their platform (mostly children). It has changed in the past year or so that only 1-2% of your followers see your content, and if they react within the first few minutes/hours very highly, they will show it to more people, and then more people and more if those people like, share, comment, but mostly spend a long time interacting with your post. The algorithm isn't a thing, its not good or bad, but right now in my opinion, its design or current set up is really not ideal for artists or content creators. It has become very demanding, and has been basing itself as you said on what ... hmm how do i say stupid without saying stupid.... people like. Lets say its catering to an audience that isn't interested in something that isn't "like wow omygawd" or "ewww grosss" or "wow i didn't know that, thats cool". Anyways!

    • @morguedesign
      @morguedesign  Місяць тому +1

      thank you for your comment! honestly, i would love to have an omniscient view of how the algorithm works. there might be shadow ban, but I truly think it's more about what people want to see. this might sound bad, but i am sick of seeing artists promote their patreons (i want to support their art but I'm tired of their monthly ads, and I'm even more tired of them complaining that their ads don't get as much engagement as their art). but yes I would agree that reach has been funky recently, and the audience we need to cater to can be really frustrating, but there's nothing we can do :/

  • @AwaiHashiba-Yu-Gi-OhDM-Season6
    @AwaiHashiba-Yu-Gi-OhDM-Season6 Місяць тому +1

    I completely agree with your video and especially like that you've incorporated both elements of your artistic side as well as your commentary on the algorithm and what is currently happening on UA-cam. But algorithm does exist in the way. And honestly depends on the country that you're posting your videos.for example the country where I currently live right now is being surprised by UA-cam simply because it doesn't follow the US politics, and because of that a lot of the videos especially from UA-camrs that has millions and millions of subscribers get less than half a million, and it happens it's simply because the country where I'm from is not monetizable. All the editors for my country are not monetized at all, the videos that we are watching don't bring any revenue to any creators that are outside of my country. and because we are not profitable but by law we cannot be fully banned from the platform, we are currently being suppressed by the algorithm. And that's why a lot of our creators are moving away from UA-cam, simply because we cannot even watch our own creators, let alone support our foreign creators. All the ads that are supposed to play on UA-cam are not even there, which is a good thing for us as viewers, but it's honestly bad for foreign UA-camrs, because they don't get the money that they deserve for the video that they posted. So if you are from a country that UA-cam has no issues with then it shouldn't be a problem, but if you're from a country that UA-cam is not supporting, this is where you're being suppressed and this is where the algorithm honestly is being played out. Just a thought and a comment on your video. Keep up the great work. I really enjoy your content! You can absolutely do this!

    • @morguedesign
      @morguedesign  Місяць тому +1

      thank you! that's a great point - I'm not completely informed about those issues, but I agree with how something like that would be controlled by the algorithm focused on revenue and profit

    • @AwaiHashiba-Yu-Gi-OhDM-Season6
      @AwaiHashiba-Yu-Gi-OhDM-Season6 Місяць тому

      @morguedesign It's not a common issue for most, but yeah, it sucks over all. Just imagine, you spent over six years and accumulated over 6m subscribers and one day BC of politics, your income went to zero and BC of your IP, you're being shadowbanned to most of countries outside your own. And even with people watching you, you get zero in revenue. Sucks for big creators but imagine the smaller ones. Yeah... So algorithm, in a way, does exist. It all depends where you are in the world. 🤧

  • @taylortrent5568
    @taylortrent5568 Місяць тому

    i like learning/talking about the algorithm and i flippin love pedro pascal. thank you for being here to scratch both those itches.

  • @Jenkz_Olivier
    @Jenkz_Olivier Місяць тому +2

    loved your video, keep going

  • @SinCityRadio2077
    @SinCityRadio2077 Місяць тому

    There has to be one or more algos, probably k-means clustering that classifies people in similar groups and test videos against those clumps, an algo to show ads at the right time by geolocation, and at least a thumbnail calculator / safety for korn and some to detect spam bots

    • @SinCityRadio2077
      @SinCityRadio2077 Місяць тому

      There also was a change on oct 24-25 that impacted impressions from search, and the 'mistake' on the Rogan video recognized by YT

  • @hwindrum
    @hwindrum Місяць тому

    I love your earnestness and integrity 😃 Keep going! Now back to lurking…

  • @StoriesbyDAF
    @StoriesbyDAF Місяць тому +2

    Thumbnail is genuis!

    • @StoriesbyDAF
      @StoriesbyDAF Місяць тому

      Wonder if you make the DICE and their text bigger.

  • @sccrespoc
    @sccrespoc Місяць тому

    Nice essay. I've been thinking along the same line lately. It is just not worth create my art to satisfy an algorithm.

  • @FrankFreezy_
    @FrankFreezy_ Місяць тому

    I loved the conversation and the art🌺✨

  • @jii-e7d
    @jii-e7d Місяць тому

    fact is, the algorithm is pushing you now! i don't even follow you and you are CONSTANTLY on my feed. so i hope make something positive out of it.

  • @DennisCNolasco
    @DennisCNolasco 26 днів тому

    Word!

  • @MaryThompson63
    @MaryThompson63 Місяць тому

    Awesome!

  • @littleripper312
    @littleripper312 Місяць тому

    Hey kiddo, I'm a webcomic creator(not connected to this account) with over 50million reads on my top performing comic. Originally I rolled my eyes at you when I saw Adam Duffs video as it took myself and nearly every other comic artist I know years of posting weekly chapters before they were able to earn enough to go full time. This is because not only are you learning pure skills of your art medium(in your case videos) you're learning to appeal to your audience and build it. You need to trigger the algorithm and to do that you need to learn to trigger likes, comments and watch time. What you need to learn to do is create content you love with a necessary veneer of psychological tricks. You seem to get this as you're a smart guy. You already figured out movement works for example. This is not new to youtubes algorithm, this is true in history, people always had to play these games. It's just marketing changes over time. Good luck, your arts great, you're great, play the game, don't be bitter and be patient. I know you'll get there if you just focus on a video a week.

    • @morguedesign
      @morguedesign  Місяць тому +1

      I'm not sure if you're saying kiddo to be patronizing or affectionate - I'm 25 years old. but yes, you're right! I've been making and sharing my art online regularly for almost ten years now, so I'm starting to see what it takes - both to improve my skills but also learning about what audience wants. making long form video is so much harder - it takes longer, so I'm getting less frequent dosages of audience feedback, and it's a much longer game. posting more frequently is probably the best solution but not really feasible for me yet

  • @lfrancis8980
    @lfrancis8980 Місяць тому +1

    Such an important point. Also the constant self-censoring is irritating.

  • @Leo-qn2zm
    @Leo-qn2zm Місяць тому

    phirst 🤓 ur videos r rlly helpful and fun to watch thank u for being awesome

    • @Leo-qn2zm
      @Leo-qn2zm Місяць тому +1

      secont?

    • @theindiejurnee
      @theindiejurnee Місяць тому

      @@Leo-qn2zm I was first but deleted and re-wrote, so now you are officially first ☺

    • @Leo-qn2zm
      @Leo-qn2zm Місяць тому +1

      yippeee!! ​@@theindiejurnee

  • @tet-life
    @tet-life Місяць тому +8

    Maybe just call yourself an 'artist'. Why does it need any more definition than that? You either are or you're not. How anyone earns their money in order to keep being an artist doesn't matter. If I make a living from affiliate marketing, in an unrelated field, that takes me no time at all (and I do but not a livable income... yet) and spend the rest of my time making the art I want to make, the equivalent hours of a full time job (I don't but say I did)... what does it matter how I, or anyone, defines what I do?
    Also, you're wrong about the algorithm, you're just bad at it. You at least needed the words 'UA-cam' and "Artists' added to your title... so search knows what algorithm you're talking about and can deliver your video to artists wondering about the algorithm on UA-cam.

  • @IAARPOTI
    @IAARPOTI Місяць тому +1

    Hey can you apologize to kelsey back? That's all I can ask for.

    • @morguedesign
      @morguedesign  Місяць тому +4

      saying "apologize back" would imply that Kelsey has apologized first. I haven't seen an apology from her, nor a response to any of my specific points of critique. Kelsey has tried to justify her exploitative business practices but she's misrepresented the vast majority of my argument and only sent hate my way

    • @IAARPOTI
      @IAARPOTI Місяць тому +2

      @morguedesign First of all, you accused her a big thing. Pyramid scheme is a major accusation that requires a lot of believable evidences but you failed to do so. Second, you mocked her behaviors in your video. That's also counted as personal attack. And third not only she said not to send hate to you but also respect your pronouns on her response video. Clearly you didn't even acknowledge her response.

    • @IAARPOTI
      @IAARPOTI Місяць тому

      @morguedesign Listen, all you have to do is to owe your mistake and apologize to her. That's all I can ask. You are making a huge mistake. If you aren't careful, you might end up in the court for defamation.

    • @morguedesign
      @morguedesign  Місяць тому +5

      well, creating a business with tactics closely associated with pyramid schemes is a major thing to do. there is no one on this platform who is above critique, and my video was supported by evidence and research. my video doesn't need to convince you for it to not be defamation. an impersonation is not a personal attack, and just because she said not to send hate that doesn't mean I haven't gotten an influx of hate comments directly from her video.

    • @IAARPOTI
      @IAARPOTI Місяць тому

      @@morguedesign I wanna ask you one thing. Are you gonna listen to her response and anyone who debunk your claims.

  • @TheStreetsOfOurLives
    @TheStreetsOfOurLives Місяць тому

    When you said, "I'm way too young to be feeling old.".... I feel this literally in my bones...and I'm only 31 🥲 hahaha.