Why ALL your Characters Should be Bi (And it's NOT why you think) (ft Legend of Korra)
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
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So, basically, don't write your characters so that they MUST be bi, but write them as if they are bi and then if it works out that they are, that's ok.
Yeah, that sounds perfectly reasonable.
Its actually not. Were not born in a void where sexuality is tacked on after we've developed a personality. Our sexuality informs how we interact with society and how our personalities are made. Getting rid of that is gutting depth from your characters for no reason.
Rave Scooper He is giving this advice to writers that aren't really using sexuality in any way to improve their characters.
The whole idea is to not have already decided that the characters are heterosexual from the get go for no reason other than a pre-disposed bias, when if their sexuality doesn't have any major effect on the plot nor the characters then it really shouldn't have to come up until you start to decide about maybe choosing a relationships for your character, preferably after they have had lots of interactions and chemistry with other characters.
If the sexuality IS plot or character related, then of course that falls into the more important things that should be already decided on before hand, as he mentioned, but if the sexuality doesn't even come up until the relationship stage then one doesn't need to decide on it before that stage.
Doesn't mean that there won't be any "coming out drama" or later characterization built on their sexuality, doesn't mean there will be, but it means that characters sexuality, if not important in any way to the story or their background and characterization (or at the least, not at the beginning of the story), then already limiting your future options because of a bias is a stupid habit that good writers should avoid.
Basically, "make every character bi" is just his way of saying "don't unnecessarily decide your characters sexuality before any relationship if you don't have to".
By not having a personal restriction on yourself without any reason, any future development on the characters can come more naturally, and for many writers and stories decisions on the characters sexuality can wait until it actually needs to come up.
A what I think is a good example of this is Rosa Diaz from Brooklyn 99 coming out as bi. When she does, it is meaningful, there is some drama and some heartwarming stuff, but it wasn't planned from the get go and it didn't change anything huge about her background or character.
Of course, coming out had its affects as character growth, but her character at the beginning of the series is still the same no matter what sexuality they would have had her with. She totally fits as a bisexual character, and she would totally fit as something else.
The writers had the choice to make her bisexual because they didn't limit themselves, and it worked out perfectly in my opinion.
Anyways, just wanted to share my opinion on this with you. Really didn't mean this comment to get so out of hand XP. Sorry for the length.
Wish you a good day :)
@@hudsonbennett9138 I disagree
Not every character needs to have there sexuality revieled
And actually some of the best ones never do
Look if it's done properly and with the knowledge of what your doing gay, Les,bi,ace all of it can work cause it won't feel forced
We who are against it don't have a problem with it being in the show but more so have a problem with how it's portrayed in the show
@@hudsonbennett9138
That'd be what you call "realism" which he mentioned like 50 billion times in this video so I don't know how you missed that. But the point is that these are fictional characters with continuously developing stories. He's not saying you can't make a character gay or straight, but that it should be something you implement /retroactively/. Meaning the character was technically always straight or always gay, or maybe they were just full on bisexual. But you didn't know that until the chemistry had formed.
Which in my opinion is more realistic anyways because most people don't know their sexuality until they explore and have some dating experience under their belt. You may be born with it, but I don't believe anyone who acts like they've been certain of their sexuality since day 1.
@Augustus Freeman
I don't really care for the nature VS nurture debate because it's completely irrelevant and as someone who has struggled with immoral urges(literally) in the past I have learned the hard way how malleable sexuality in general is. All that matters is that Homosexuality is not immoral, regardless of whether it's a choice or not.
But dude. Before puberty? LMAO NO. Kids these days talk like they know, but they are just talking on Gender and Sexual Preference to fit in with the tumblr crowd and pretend like they know.
Before puberty, you may feel non-sexual attraction and that may make you assume your sexuality. But is in no way an indicator of your sexuality. Most gay people felt disgusted by the idea of homosexuality and could have sworn up and down they were straight because of conditioning.
...Or maybe they shouldn’t use relationship arcs if they’re not necessary.
Chemist Web
disagree
If you are for example sake let's say a guy and a girl and you are constantly together
sharing life changing moments together and this person will do for you what almost nobody else would
You can only write them as really good friends or a couple
the issue come from
when a couple is together just because
Like cheesy or not it is normal for 2 people in those situation to become close and even date
So as troupes go it's pretty realistic
Axle Fullbuster
To clarify, I'm not against the idea of people in a close relationship dating at one point or another. My main contention is when characters that are merely together quite a bit due to the conflict forcing them together, and the story is written so that the characters end up in a relationship, whether or not they display any semblance of chemistry or deep interest in the other at first. If the relationship directly benefits the plot or the characters in the relationship, then it's fine to add the relationship arc, though it seems rather unnecessary otherwise.
I think what he means is let your story/characters evolve naturally. If you don't go into it with a strict mindset of "character A and character B must be together in the end" it feels less forced. What if you're writing and you discover Character A and Character C have great chemistry regardless of gender? Or that Character A wouldn't realistically have time for a relationship? I think this advice applies to more than just relationships, being incredibly rigid or formulaic in any aspect of your story can take away from it.
Just like Treasure Planet
Imagine if they introduced a female romantic lead for Luke after Leia didnt work *shudders*
honestly, a story doesn’t even NEED a romantic relationship including the main character. also, it’s worse to force a relationship just because aesthetic or sexuality. like, narusasu could have genuinely worked really well, and naruhina - although it wasn’t as badly forced as it could have been - just felt kind of out of place, not to mention sasusaku.
for it work there needs to be a genuine connection chemistry and friendship, every pair in naruto lacked that narusasu barely even interact or even have a sold friendship they argue and piss each other off they're toxic it's not as bad as sasusaku tho and naruhina is healthy but lacks any chemistry and doesn't rlly make sense, in the end any pair being canon would feel off and bland even awkward n forced
I almost feel like the writers for She-Ra saw this video and made it their mission statement. The number of straight and gay relationships were split almost exactly 50/50, and yet not a single character's sexual orientation was ever referenced.
Hm, I heard somewhere that Shera had a „gay until told otherwise“ philosophy.
Of course what creators say and what is in the actual work are different things. But for Adora and Catra I feel it was planned in advance to turn out like this in the end.
@@Alina_Schmidt oh for sure it was the plan, had to be, but other character unless already taken werent, glimmer and adora had some chemistry too, tho adora i think was only into women? pretty sure.... hmmm, thinking about it, only glimmer comes to mind as having bi energy/moments, possibly scorpia... maybe im wrong and it was meant to be mostly gay?
I don't care about which sexual orientation the characters in the relationship have. I just want the relationship to be well written. Sadly, poorly written romance arcs are prominent in both the heterosexual and homosexual variety with few actually making sense and even less given proper development.
Literally just sumarized the vid
Tbh i can identify more with straight couples.
To me this whole relationship also kinda stupid. Its sometimes also about sexualisation. The same as us humans. We are straight or gay and meet people we can go well with. Just being comparitble with the person doesnt mean that it has to be a sexual relation ship. Great friendship also also a very good thing to display.
We also dont get to decide that we can love this person sexualy jsut because we fit together.
the only reason why some romances are poorly written is because the second character isnt rly developed in the story. Like in Naruto. We never saw a real reason for their love to each other. While i knew naruto and saskes view i never could say the same about about the girls. Heck i even have to think ahrd to remember their name. And thats just because Sakura is an easy one if you u know her haircolor.
Here's my two cents on why so many written relationships don't feel authentic. It's because writers are only people, and people in general have great trouble figuring out how love and relationships work. We can't write what we don't know. So we just write what we imagine things could be, or what we want things to be.
Torchwood actually did this quite well, most relationships were deliberately superficial, but the ones that were played to be serious were well-written.
As a bisexual writer, I just want to say something.
Here's the thing: chemistry isn't inherently romantic. Chemistry is just when two characters, regardless of their relationship, work well against each other. Characters can have good platonic chemistry (Yang and Blake, Ruby and Jaune, Harry and Hermione, Zuko and Aang in later seasons, Aang and Toph), good familial chemistry (Yang and Ruby, Weiss and Winter, literally all the Weasley kids, Scout and Jem, Sokka and Katara, Joel and Ellie, Logan and Laura) or even good antagonistic chemistry (Vader and Luke, Zuko and Aang in earlier seasons, Zuko and Azula, Draco and Harry)
Just because two characters work well together and have a dynamic doesn't necessarily mean that they should get into a relationship. Friendship is just as valuable as romance and I'm kind of tired of people shunting it to the side in favor of romances that are out of place and don't make sense.
rwby is hot dogshit tho you must be a fanfic writer.
Although I will say that Shinji and Kaoru are the best relationship in the series. Suck it, Asuka.
But if the author wants a romantic subplot, it's way better to use the characters with the chemistry for a romance. That's why he mentioned Naruto and not Hunter x Hunter, since Naruto had a somewhat forced romantic subplot, whereas Hunters x Hunter had none.
What you're missing here si that while you can have chemistry without a romantic notion, you really can't have romance without chemistry. That's not romance. That's, at best, some really forced BS based on lust, not love. Without chemistry you have obligation, not believable affection. So yeah, chemistry is step one, regardless if you want a platonic or romantic relationship between characters.
Yuri Hinamura romance doesnt have to piggyback off of friendship tho, you could also have just added a completely new character that was an even better romantic fit instead of twisting friendship until it turns into romance.
EDIT: or you could have just made the fit from the beginning, it doesnt have to be added halway through the story.
Basically, write their character's as if they could have attraction to any gender, so you can see which pairings do work best without limiting yourself.
Short, simple, sweet.
Exactly.
Sadly a few comments here missed the overall point.
But… why? In real life many - most - people aren’t attracted to any gender…? And it’s hardly like being same-sex-attracted is some random, arbitrary thing - in lots of ways it really does shape the way you navigate through the world, so… it just seems kinda reductive to act like everyone could totally just secretly be bi all along?
@@alexbennet4195 that is only the case because you (and many others) assume it is. Frankly, it just isn't representative of reality. Nor is it accurately representative of Biology. Fact of the matter is, the VAST majority of people who claim to be heterosexual just aren't. They've just been taught to be, assumed it so, never bothered testing it, and were mislead about the reality of gender attraction: all stemming from multiple millenia of colonisation by Abrhamic religions. In a world which is unlike our own, and had no such dominion occur, why would the same outcome happen?
Some people in the comments are taking this WAY too literally. It's not "make every character openly bi" but just be open to whatever chemistry naturally develops when writing the story and the character arcs. That doesn't even necessarily mean that you should only consider potential same-sex options for your characters, but just maybe something other than the other main character, whether that would be a straight romance or not. The point is, don't predetermine your romantic relationships in stories where romance isn't the main plot, but write your characters first and then see what characters have good chemistry... and leave the romance subplot be if you notice that there are no good options. That's my take on the video, at least.
Maybe he should change the clickbait title then.
@@shortstacksport Maybe. Be good if people watched the video they're commenting on too. Maybe both parties need to make a minor adjustment to things.
But that’s not how the world or writing works... by that logic I should make my character without any skill or tastes so it can be whatever I want based on my convenience, that’s lazy writing and the only thing you get from it its a bad defined character
@Jorge Baez how did you get that out of it? all Maria and the video are saying is basically dont force romance where it doesnt work and you twist it into well might as well take every character trait away.
its really weird because what you said about the character being wat you want based on convenience is basically what happens with bad romantic sub plots. when characters fall for each other eventhough there doesnt seem to be any chemistry between them thats the lazy writing you are talking about no? not writing the character with a particular sexuality in mind doesnt auto make it a bad character.
As someone who has picked up dnd as a hobby, this kind of writing is so important. I wish this was applied more in even more aspects of media. After forging stories to fit a flexible media, in which multiple outcomes are a must, it is the best way to write stories that feel real and organic. People are made of all thier choices, so why write characters for the endgame when you dont know what choices they will have to make between now and then.
Edit: and by even more aspects, I mean, not just to characters, but to the worldbuilding. The world should be just as flexible and change as much as the people within it.
"I want to have what they have, BREASTS"
Relatable comment
Lanabot Me_irl
#Goals
I'm not entirely sure why these comments make me happy.
Goodbye.
As a gay man I completely agree with you. Nothing bothers me more when a character's ENTIRE PERSONALITY is gay. There should be more depth in the character!!!!
Every Hollywood writer should be chained down to play Fallout: New Vegas and forced to explore every single story path of Arcade Gannon
There is no other possible cure short of dropping them all into volcanoes.
I used to hate a lot of gay characters, and I realized why a while ago. It wasn't the fact that they were gay, but the fact that that was basically their entire character, like you said
I need to make a footnote:
"See 'Leon' (Fire Emblem Echoes, 2017)"
@leo mendoza I think that has to do with overcompensation in *some* cases... when you get a lot of negativity for something that isn't the social norm you either bend, disregard it and blend in, or you rebel and everything kinda becomes a statement... (because being different is seen as it anyway) So instead of having to argue and explain everything to every new person all over again, telling everyone beforehand and wearing it like armor (quote Tyrion Lannister, GoT) becomes a good alternative.
Did I mention I mean >>SOME
PREACH I SAY! PREEAAAACH!
I seriously despise when a characters entire personality is that they are gay.
But sense I am straight and I am saying this I’m automatically a homophobe I guess.
My problem with the whole relationship between characters bi or not, is that they never have a transition from friendship to a relationship, just because characters are really good friends for a longtime does not equal romance.
This is also a very valid thing but I don't think he's trying to say "get everyone together" either.
Just that if you DO write a romantic relationship, don't restrict a character arbitrarily for an option that doesn't make sense.
Marceline and bubblegum is how you should write a gay relationship. The chemistry is genuinely good and it feels like a normal progression of the story and not a artificial push for diversity.
That is a good example of how to have good representation for gay relationship. A bad example is to just take an existing explicitly straight or straight coded character with a cult following and suddenly retcon them so that they are gay and always have been gay. Nobody was upset when Dumbledore was revealed to be gay. But some people would go nuclear if they suddenly announced that 'the punisher' or Wolverine has always been gay.
So that everyone can ship everyone... Wait that already happens.
And like shipping everyone, you know? I remember when people from the Naruto fandom shipped him with his mother... there should be a line you don't cross, even in fictional characters shipping
The fuck, I don't think Naruto's mom was ever even shown in the show? Pretty sure she wasn't a real character because she instantly died or something, but correct me if I am wrong since I haven't watched it in forever and never watched the crap called Shippuden.
Ghost blowjob WOOOOOOOOOOO~
@@Poglavnit_Pferdefuhrer 2yrs late but
*WTF*
@@LilJbm1 Shippuden was when the show was good, actually. Until the literal last arc.
No but seriously is "thicc" just well proportion fat I need answers
I second this
Uniquenameosaurus Wow senpai notice me lit
The best portions of fat my Boi 😎
Pretty much
I have come to the agreement that no one knows what THICC is and THICC is just subjective because I see stuff most people say is THICC and I 100% disagree, they could be a twig and people still say THICC. I would have said yes THICC is just well proportion fat, but seeing how most people use the term I would disagree and THICC is just something you can say about anything because everyone has derived it from what it actually is.
Feel like almost all of the comment section is misinterpretating you. I Genuinely think you have a good point
Sadly, it seems that the clickbaity-ish wording has blurred the message for a lot of people, but hell yeah!
(though no romance at all is also an option)
I'm sooo bored with mainA/mainB ending up together because... they... met? at one point in the story.
Naruto is a perfect example of missed potential. Hey, ya got two people with great chemistry and actual backstory, whatcha gonna do? Stick them with those girls who's existences they barely acknowledged a couple of times. Urg.
It's funny that I recently commented about it on one of OSP's videos (the Mary Sue trope talk) since you mentioned both here.
i mean i don't see a romance between the 2 main leads happening either i mean could they not just be single?
This video might be all over the place but I actually really liked it. It was refreshing hearing someone with an open mind talk about this topic, even if you're obviously not the only one.
It wasn't. They said their two points right at the start then repeated over and over again to hit ten minutes.
seigeengine: must be lonley on mount diapointment
Not really.
Love triangles.......love triangles everywhere
I swear I audibly cringed when I read your comment.
But yes, love triagles are an essential part of any story. Especially when they hijack the plot halfway through
dont you just love it when theres paragraphs of details about the love triangle and nothing about actual plot progression
Love dodecahedrons even?
Iain Hansen "Don't forget to add the love triangle!" - Terrible Writing Advice
upvoting under the assumption of satire.
The issue I take here is the implication that when two characters have chemistry, it should necessarily transition into some kind of romantic relationship. (Or it should if they're both single, I guess). Not sure if that's what you're saying, but I really enjoy a lot of bromances and more general strong friendships in media and I wouldn't want to have the writers see that stuff as only the first step towards some kind of romance, because that has a very different flavor.
That being said, I frequently don't enjoy a lot of romance arcs in media anyway, since they're often tangential to and draw time and attention away from the central elements of the story. So there's a clear bias on my part, I'll fully admit that. I guess my real point is "I don't think having more romantic arcs WOULD improve most stories". In fact, a lot of the time, removing them would.
But I mean, yeah, obviously Shinji/Kaworu is the OTP
The problem with this is the fact that two people can have a perfectly intimate relationship without it going sexual. And that's the problem with society today in general. Good points otherwise
Sexuality doesn’t matter, the buildup and sense of realism is what’s needed
Abyss Auction True
yes
Abyss Auction this
Absolutely correct
Agreed.
Or just write a good romance. Decide your characters' sexuality and love interests _before_ you start writing. Because if you dont you'll just end up with a half assed, mostly forced romance that isnt in the least bit interesting.
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT, SOMEONE ACTUALLY GETS IT!
I knew you had that top hat screwed on straight you glorious Dorito demon.
Know who your characters are so you know where they will go or/and how they will get there.
Yeah but why? Tbh messing it up could be entirely plausible in the narrative. Its not "first times the charm but if you screw up then its over". Many people date quite a few people before finding a good relationship.
Sure you can plan who goes where beforehand, but changing midway also works if you write it well.
+CMEshai
And even _then_ you should plan it beforehand. It just makes things a lot easier and allows you to build up chemistry between the two characters, even if they have previously been in other relationships, ect. This is one of the most fundamental and important rules of writing and it can also improve this aspect of a story.
CMEshai If we are going by the logic of “most people do this” then we could say most people aren’t bisexual, which is true. It’s stupid logic to follow, if you have a meaningful story to write, then do so.
OH MY GOD THANK YOU!
I have been trying to find a way to voice my thoughts on representation and you should said it perfectly!
Also the Naruto bit made me cry it was really funny
Okay, on the Naruto one I could see it and Kishimoto has gone on record saying that Romance arcs are not his thing and he minimised them as a result. Fair enough man.
But I will say I’m glad it wasn’t a gay relationship. Not because “Ew gay” but because Naruto had this whole journey to find him and personally I think it would have torn it down a peg if we learned it was because of the power of boner all along. I liked that he had a genuine, empathetic and platonic connection, that he could express his feelings and desire for that friendship WITHOUT it being romantic or sexual. It was a masculine friendship which I feel isn’t seen enough from an intimate level like those two.
That’s just me tho
I know my comment is pointless half a year later, but still
Thank you for saying that
i read your title with "ALL" in caps and i immediately imagined all the Legend of Korra characters in a big pile...
also i've learned not to put anything passed you, so...
nice vid, lol XD
Nux Taku what are you doing here?
nux i love your vids
Love u nux
stop making so many honest videos
Love the vids
Nux Taku "XD"
Are you a child, or something?
I think a lot of the commenterss here misunderstand the video's intent. I don't think the goal is for every character on show to be openly bi, but rather that from the writer's perspective, outside the story, we should consider them bi. Thus, any other character becomes a possible love interest IF the plot so happens to lead them there. They aren't just openly bi, except characters for whom being openly bi is part of their story arc. It's just that the writer views them as such. As relationships develop, certain characters can then possibly reveal certain preferences if related to the story, but the audience doesn't actually know what a character's sexual orientation is until they see it used in the story. Doing it this way, some characters never get love interests and those who do get more natural ones.
I came into this video with a rather skeptical attitude, but this has changed my perspective and I agree. Great job, great video.
What sounds worse about it? It doesn't affect anyone else. It's just a way of viewing your characters when you're writing a story. There is purpose in giving a character sexuality like this, as it helps inform you as to what they might value aesthetically as well. But, that said, this viewpoint isn't for everyone, and that's fine. Except this all happens in the author's head and doesn't affect anybody else, so if it helps some people, what's wrong with it? It's a novel way of thinking and it can be useful. I'm not sure how precisely it "sounds worse" than anything else. I honestly have no idea why you bothered commenting, let alone writing such a long comment if you didn't like the video in the first place.
Shiranova, it's not that the characters are actually bi sexual. His phrasing is just little more than shock value honestly. The main crux of his argument is so that writers who want to implement romance into their stories but not have as its main focus can maybe take a step back at a certain point and go "hmmm, I know I set this up but that is looking to make more sense." It's really nothing more than a little device or trick a writer can use to look at their own work.
Just like this one writing device where you just write out an entire character and have someone else just say a gender with no knowledge of the character you just wrote and have said character be that gender no matter what. Of course, not all writers are going to use that trick because it's very dependant on the type of story that is being told just like how using this bi sexuality trick isn't going to work for all stories. He even says that in the beginning.
It's just a means to explore your characters. You can better yet, swap out bi sexuality with asexuality to maybe help write character relationships better. It's not that the character are actually asexual it's a what if scenario.
My problem with this video is that there are too many styles of writing for this video to be declared “factual.” This is more like a George RR Martin style of writing, whereas many people prefer the JK Rowling style of writing where she planned out all 7 books before she even started writing. It depends on the writing the writer is most comfortable. Not having a romance planned can just as easily end in disaster as anything else. It depends completely on the author.
Maybe if you're writing a story one episode at a time or otherwise making it up as you go along, but I think the best stories have the endings and major events planned out from the very beginning. That way the author can put thought and effort into HOW things get there, and nothing fills like filler. Planning is the friend of good stories.
maybe sexually undecided is a better term
Well, you just triggered a bunch of anti-SJWs with the title.
What's wrong with bisexual people? Anti sjws don't hate sexuality
@@mavrickindigo yeah but they care about "identity politics"
So basically just keep ur mind open, like people also dont HAVE to end up in relationships lol (asexuality and that whole spectrum, etc.)
Also YES OVERLY SARCASTIC PRODUCTIONS i need to binge watch their stuff lol its so good
Edit: also this explains y touya x yukito from cardcaptor sakura is such a good ship lol
Lmao yeah I binge OSP's trope talk playlist like every month, their videos are so good.
Can't... can't we just have truly great friends, without having it to be sexual?
Like Gon and Killua? (Hunter x Hunter)
It's perfectly fine to love your friends and family, in a non romantic way.
LordTakeo That's a very good point. I think he's just saying it for romantic plots
Was mostly saying it, because I saw the Naruto/Rwby bit, and some of his arguments had just excamples, that made me go: "Yeah. Thats what FRIENDS do, y'know?"
I agree with your points but if you want to have a romantic relationship it probably should be based on genuine connections in their personalities and what is shown in the show instead of having the lead male and female date because you just wanted 2 people to get together.
I mean RWBY romances have been hinted at and for the most part confirmed since very early. Monty himself said he wanted to have the characters develop in sexuality as the series continues.
This definitely a good counter point I should have looked into. Gunna keep watching comments but i'll write this down.
The perfect click bait-but not actually click bait title.
yes clickbait isn't wrong, bad content however is
I just clicked off an Overly Sarcastic Production video. Woah
"I want to have what they have... breast!!!"
Same dude. Same. I'm a biological female, but same my dude.
Addition: MAN! I LIKE YOU! IMMA SUB RN, YOU'RE HILARIOUS!!
When he made that joke my mind immediately went "r/egg much?"
I don't think Gamora and Quill are an example of characters just hooking up for the hell of it at all.
Awsamazing Eden oh they most certainly are. They don't fit together at all. It's another example of how men and women apparently can't just be friends. There's really no reason for them to start romance or even have romance in the first movie. Knowing the comics I'm a little sad they didn't stick closer to those. A more badass Gamora opening up to a more serious Adam Warlock or Richard Rider would be great. Peter fits better with comic mantis, but not in the movies I guess because their personalities are completely unrecognizable.
Sir Strangefolk They didn't start a romance in the 1st one. Or the second one. (I would mention IF but Thanos demands my silence) Lindsay Ellis describes this better than I can but the 2nd movie and Peter both address that trope and, while it does acknowledge they are attracted to one another, it develops the fact that Gamora is too emotionally broken, Peter too immature and egotistical, and both too closed off and defensive of their emotions. The one thing they have in common is too many issues due to years of parental abuse to be in a functional relationship. So they aren't.
Awsamazing Eden that contrast between immaturity and emotionally broken is precisely why they don't work together. There is a scene in IW that perfectly demonstrates this. It's the conversation right before Drax is standing still. One of them is talking about one of the most important things in her life while the other doesn't take it seriously at all. It really doesn't work. And sure, they weren't formally together in the first one but they were definitely exploring a romance.
I don't think you can say they are a typical hollywood romance just hooking up for the hell of it since they aren't actually together. It subverts the trope because in a typical blockbuster they would have ended up together by now but both films explore precisely why that can't happen, subverting the trope.
Indeed, MaxSnow. I'd add that while there was sexual/romantic tension, it was just tension, not a relationship. They might have wanted more, but the films clearly brought up the things in the way of that. So they didn't force it as more: what we got instead was IMO more interesting.
While I agree, I'd rather not call it "make them all bi" over something like, y'know "write better pls"
_the phrase is only there for clickbait that I fell for yes yes I know I'm the fool here_
"Write better pls" is more vague.
Saying "make them all bi" is giving a hint that you can leave a character's options WIDE OPEN and when something clicks you aren't stuck behind "Well this would be nice...BUT HE'S GAY! I can't make him fall in love with this chick!" cus believe it or not, people have a habit of following a script to the letter even at the cost of the overall quality.
I would know, I've had to force myself to stop writing things a certain way cus the way I originally made it is bloody stupid and no they should not say that or go there!
@@TheGreatBackUpVIDEOS you're replying to a three-year-old comment have mercy
@@dragontyron Have fun remembering what you were talking about 3 years ago.
"In conclusion, fuck the traditionalism that forces straight relationships but also fuck the agenda that forces gay characters."
NOW THIS IS SOME RADICAL CENTRISM ILL FUCKIN GET BEHIND
On the other-hand. Deciding you character is a certain sexuality and putting them in a position where they realized they actually are not might be a good point of story-telling too.
You touch on something I've thought for a long time, I think the mentality of needing gay/bi characters for the sake of diversity has caused a lot of people to think of gay/bi characters as good ONLY for the sake of diversity. People pushing for more "inclusivity" have only strengthened the othering effect that makes gay/bi characters feel out of place or "special" and makes writers approach their stories completely different from straight characters.
We're normal god damn people, we don't have magical powers that make stories better or worse just by being present lol.
And you're 100% on point about having characters be non-overtly bi makes writing relationship arcs significantly simpler and have way more potential.
Also, ShinjixKaworu for life. I swear I like you more and more every time you upload another video.
Is it all right if I were to make a story and everyone is straight out of my own preference?
amen. i always considered myself leftist and had heated arguments with my right wing dad. but the recent 2 years have made me go more and more conservative for the sole reason that i feel alienated by the left wing hardcore progressive politics.
my best friend is gay, even he gets furious about leftist politics nowadays. i firmly believe this is why trump happened. the silent majority is fucking fed up with more and more extreme 'progressive' politics, its not helping that this change is happening way too fast and feels very forced upon people.
for the record, trump is incompetent as fuck, but you reap what you sow (im not an american)
Before this video I liked the idea of gay characters only because straight was overdone, now it is clear to me that the real problem is that straight is done WRONG all the time.
Agree. I myself am bi, but when I see token gay relationships or bi triangles, I just cringe, and in some parts even get mad at how fucking weird they are shown to be. A nice bi character I remember was "13" chick of Doctor House. Her sexuality was talked about in about 5 minutes, and then it wasn't that important anymore. She fucked some chicks and no drama or victimization was presented and no one cared. It was simple and beautiful.
Characters should not be writing as bi-sexual for the reasons you stated because having chemistry doesn't mean sexual attraction (like best friend relationships in real life). If a character is written as heterosexual, bi, or homosexual, their relationship should fit their sexual orientation. Writing a character as bi-sexual might give an author more options, but that doesn't mean they are good. You will get about twice the amount of potentially bad pairings, but the ratio of good to bad potential pairings will, ideally, still be 1:1, like with hetero or homosexual pairings. The problem is the writing of SOME characters used as romantic interest later on in a series, not the author pre determining their characters sexual orientation (usually as their own). That doesn't mean EVERY author should write their characters as bi. Some authors actually have talent.
Huh... Never thought of it that way, very useful writing tip! Also, recently discovered your videos, love what I'm finding so far! Really dig your perspective on writing and character creation!
As soon as you had a screenshot from Overly Sarcastic Productions, I was like “Yes, I knew s9me of this stuff sounded familiar.” But love both of you guys. And everyone should check out OSP, their summaries on myths are fantastic👌
I agree about just writing characters, I just don't like the whole 'make them all bi' thought process. I go by just making a character and whenever my mind sees a relationship whether straight, gay, or whatever. Then I go for it. I go by...can I see this character dating this or them?
Like canonically, I now have 1 gay character and 1 bisexual character, but that's because I can not see one ever getting with a female. And the other I can see with everyone. Like...I don't have the thought process of making everyone bi, just the thought process of...characters.
MeannCat that's what he meant. Bi until proven otherwise by writing
Shortstack
LOL, "everyone is genderfluid pansexual until proven otherwise by writing"
"nobody has race until proven otherwise by writing"
"everyone is ideal sphere in absolute vacuum, until proven otherwise by writing".
This is pure bullshit.
By the way, "everyone is bi" is already a trope. Some settings can contain it, some simply cannot. It depends on plot, on what an author wants to say (imagine plot set in Iran, where gay and straigth plotline would work the same!). Some characters work perfectly without showing any kind of romantic or sexual manifestations at all. And who the fuck cares was Shinji bi or gay or whatever? There are tons of complex feelings and experiences, except LUV and sexual attraction.
Вася Пяткин jeez my dude, all I did was restate his point in the video. Everything after that is you taking it to extremes.
Boi. Chill
Sounds like a good thought process to me
Uniquenameosaurus: *laughs in clickbait*
How is this clickbait? When were you lied to? Stop using words you don't know what mean.
Chill you sperg lmao. I'm not attacking him or using 'clickbait' in a demeaning way.
The video title is obvious clickbait (which I actually appreciate it) because on the surface it appears as if Unique is trying to imply he wants this sort of sexuality diversity everywhere, when really he's making a deeper point about fictional relationships and how to make them less shallow by not following typical writing conventions as stringently.
A more accurate video title would be "why NO characters should be shown to have ANY sexual preferences until an appropriate romantic partner has been found, even if that means the characters are later revealed to be non-heterosexual", but that's far too wordy and not as eye-catching as the title Unique gave.
He knew this was a great clickbait title, and what's a great sign of that is the minority of people who have downvoted the video, probably without watching and realising he's actually making a much broader point than simply "muh forced gayz".
Chill you sperg lmao.
I saw this video like a year ago and this writing tip has really stuck with me since, it’s such a great idea honestly. If you find a character dynamic you find works really well and you could see a romance happening between them, it removes gender from needing to be a part of that equation and you can go for it regardless of who the characters are gender-wise. Love it.
I love how this video predicted Bubblegum and Marceline....RIP Adventure Time.
My characters aren’t all “bi” by default I just don’t consider their sexuality from the start unless it effects their story
I was going to comment that this would be better advice. Rather than make all your characters bi, just don't write your characters with a sexuality until you've determined who their best pairing would be assuming you want to include a romance subplot.
I actually had a character who i wanted to pair with another, but when i tried to think of their romance it didn't work. I concluded after many pairings that the character was just asexual lol.
no I meant asexual. She can form relationships with other people well enough, but sexuality just isn't part of her.
Okay, you raise an interesting point but let me say this: that's really not how you solve the problem you mentioned. And yes, I *did* get your point: you didn't mean that every character's sexual orientation should be bi- just that as a creator, you shouldn't limit your character's romance options based strictly on a mentality of "as long as it fits their sexual preference" or pair them prior to fleshing them out as characters. And no, I don't think you are promoting any sort of agenda here. What you proposed however, is only half the remedy if not less, really. But yeah, take this with a grain of salt as it is my own response to the problem you are addressing.
Let's start by the fact that the choice of LoK as your "shinning" example of alternative pairing is unfortunate at best, in my opinion. The romantic relationship between Korra and Mako was shit for the same reason the romantic relationship between Korra and Asami was shit. The show fell short of its characters- bland and under-developed characters equate to non-believable relationships that nobody is actually invested in. The foundations of a relationship are the characters that are involved and if your foundations are shit well, your story is officially a loo no matter how original the concept behind it might be. Korrasami came out of nowhere. Fight me. Sure, they had a moderately good (by the show's standards) platonic relationship but nothing that actually signified any sort of romantic attraction. Maybe it's just me, but I really don't see how Korra's platonic relationship with Asami had objectively anything more special than the one she had with other people. All the arguments I've seen from Korrasami shippers are stretched make-believe that could be more realistically interpreted in non-romantic ways- there's nothing that's "undeniably there" which gives me zero reason to ship it. As for why they decided to pair Korra and Asami instead, I sincerely doubt it was because that was the right call creatively. To begin with, for some reason they decided that a romantic story-line was absolutely necessary, even if Korra had no romantic chemistry with anyone- that in itself, was a pretty bad creative decision from where I'm standing and part of the problem you are addressing, not an example to be used against it. What I gathered from the way they handled Korrasami in the ending was "Bisexual avatar! It's ONLY 2014, look at how inclusive and controversial we are but now you can't say anything about it because the show has already ended! Surprise and ta ta!". It just didn't feel at all like they paired them because the characters were good together but because "muh diversity" even if that wasn't their intention. But that's enough about LoK, let's address the matter at hand.
You proposed that a creator should treat all their characters as potentially bi (I think "potentially" is the keyword that many people miss here) to prevent pre-chosen couples. But let me tell you, some of the greatest couples in substance and banter I have ever seen have been later confirmed by their creator to be pre-chosen. That's because the creator assigned traits to these two characters specifically to make it work- and to make it actually work (and not be utter shit like the Mako-Korra relationship) you just have to make it believable. Focus more on the character development than the romance itself. The romance will adapt to the characters, not the other way around. They shouldn't give you the vibe that they are two characters conveniently flawed for each other and also a relationship doesn't have to be perfect or work out all the time. Things that people have in common bring them together as much as opposites attract. When done right, stories with pre-chosen romances often serve secondary goals plot-wise and in terms of character development in more depth than they probably would if you used the "spontaneous pairing" method. When done wrong, as you described, you get two characters who feel like they just don't belong together. The relationship feels forced, it will inevitably damage the story and overall experience, yada yada.
On the other hand, romantic subplots that you figure out as you go are not guaranteed to succeed either. LoK is a great example of how to NOT pair characters when you don't know precisely what the shit you are doing, as I explained above. When done right, you get two characters who have good chemistry and- in a way- feel as if they have "earned" being together. When done wrong, you get two characters who feel like they got together either because the creator decided that a romantic subplot MUST be implemented and tossed a coin to see which characters will make the couple or just because two particular characters scored more shitty fanfics than the others on Tumblr (I'm looking at you, Korrasami). So where does all this leave us? It all boils down to whether if you can actually write or not. If you can't write believable character relationships for shit, then you will fail no matter how you go about it. You shouldn't treat pre-chosen couples like the plague or spontaneous couples like the solution to the problem. The problem is not the method, the problem is people's poor writing and decision-making skills, as with everything in fiction- who knew? Writing characters without "a single personality trait" as you put it, is not inherent in pre-chosen couples but in simply bad writing.
I also can't quite get behind the assumption that two characters should be a couple just because they have great chemistry. Literature is filled with couples that have great banter and chemistry but bad or unhealthy relationships. Me and my friends have great chemistry, should we have an orgy? And I'm all for well-written power-couples with really witty banter, I'm just saying that the chemistry in itself is not what makes a relationship good or characters entitled to bang. A relationship shouldn't be just fanservice, unless it improves and elevates the two characters involved then I don't want to see or read about it. The idea of creators treating their characters as potentially bi certainly could help with having less forced diversity, but at the risk of abruptly bastardizing platonic feelings of friendship, respect and appreciation to romantic and sexual ones. Having flexibility in your choices is good for your story but defining characters' relationships is necessary too. Like I said, you do raise an interesting point, it's just that I have certain objections with it. I simply don't think that it will fix the problem you are addressing per se. You and I trace the problem differently, hence the different solutions.
So what's my suggestion after poking holes in your solution? It doesn't matter how you decide to pair two characters, just make sure you flesh them out each as an individual first and have them interact in a way that is true to them. If they are interesting characters and their relationship doesn't suck donkey balls (e.g. isn't abusive) people will ship it. Nevermind romance, that’s the mentality you write good stories with.
Chief Purrfect I liked most of your point. However, Korrasami did not come out of nowhere. It was subtle, but not in your face as a romance. It just took a close friendship as more. Where MaKorra was out of place and felt almost out of nowhere.
Sorry. This comment ended up longer than I meant for it to be.
I disagree with the Korrasami thing. They were only ever really good friends in the show, and honestly, asami and mako had the better chemistry. Not to mention that having a character spontaneously switch their gender preference at the end of a series is just a lazy way to get characters together. That's simply not how most people function. That kind of thing isn't usually that fluid, and it came out of nowhere for the two characters.
But then again, I'm not the world's biggest fan of LOK, and that's more than likely because I went into it with high expectations after TLA. By comparison the romantic subplots that happen in that show are set up within the first two seasons pretty well, it was actually implied rather than outright stated in pretty much every case other than Katara, but that's mostly because we follow Aang's point of view.
Chief Purrfect thank you. You said everything I was thinking.
It came out of nowhere, end of story
"but at the risk of abruptly bastardizing platonic feelings of friendship, respect and appreciation to romantic and sexual ones."
That EXACTLY sums up my feelings about this video. Unless it is pre-planned, romance should NEVER be a foregone conclusion in any relationship. The example of Naruto and Sauske is the perfect example of someone bastardizing a close friendship in favor of romance. It's that kind of mentality that makes people ship characters like Sam and Frodo, completely missing the entire point of their actual, deep, loving friendship, and cheapening their characters and story.
So it isn't every character should be Bi, rather, writers should spend more time developing a relationship in a story
You got a new sub. I don’t even mind what your content is like, this video was fantastic.
Even when Sasuke and Sakura are married, the two share so little dialogue that Sakura barely remembers how he looks, and has to poorly Photoshop photos of them being together. Yet somehow, Sasuke always finds time to keep Naruto up to date about his activities and whereabouts, and somehow Naruto has perfect recollection of Sasuke's features. Even when they are married with kids they're still the better pairing, like WTF?
ShadowSaberBaroxio lol, great science
ShadowSaberBaroxio
Because they were rivals. Naruto wanted to be hokage and Sasuke wanted to be the best ninja clan.
What do you do to intimidate your foes? Some brags about how powerful they became, others overestimate their own power.
Because Sasuke communicates to naruto via messenger hawk. Kinda hard to send feelings and romance through one of those. Plus she's well aware that what sasuke is doing is worldly more important. Sasuke just doesn't seem like the expressive guy that goes and photo-documents every waking moment of his life or send "I
or maybe, u know, they were friends? like, I have friends that I love, and i wouldn´t date them, coz, u know, they are my friends, is a different love, a different bond
tbf, it's not like that never happens irl either...
It seems to me the issue you really have is that you are tired of writers forcing characters into romantic arcs without purpose other than for it to exist, in which case you should remember that not all stories need romance and not all characters that get along need to be fucking.
I love this. Absolutely agree.
Then again, I actually never seem to actually write any romantic relationships of any kind. Mostly because I find them boring. Maybe because I’m ace XD
It’s just, I adore exploring deep, platonic relationships. They’re fascinating, and it’s a deep, fulfilling relationship which you can have with anybody! The majority of people you know aren’t ever going to be romantic options, but they might still be really close! Besides, the SECOND a relationship turns romantic, it goes flat. There’s no more exploration. There’s no more motivation. ‘Why is this character doing this? Oh, because they love her.’
Romance is.... weird.
I'm sorry if you've already done so, I'm new around here, but can you PLEASE make a video on evangelion bc i actually started crying from laughter during that fucking section that was SO good
Hey, I got an idea.
Rather than making characters bisexual, why not just... Write romances well?
heres.... another idea... let every character be bisexual.
He’s not saying make them bisexual he’s saying leave options open and that will help you write a relationship well
or,or, just do both
Honestly
Yeah Sasuke had better chemestry with Naruto than with Sakura, but Sasuke doesnt really have that good chemestry with anyone. It wouldn't have suprised me if the guy was asexual.
What about Jugo? Honestly, they were pretty good together. I mean, the water guy, and the crazy uzumaki girl were not so good with Saske. But Jugo? He generally held a conversation with Sasuke, they were fighting good together, had similar problems while having opposite life-views. But that gave it a really nice chemistry.
Than he just disappeared and were pushed into nothingness by the author.
MamboJambo it was clear that Sasuke was not interested in relationships. It’s clear he was only shipped with someone so Boruto could have more Uchihas in the show
You Are
It is a very real possibility that Sasuke only had a kid with Sakura to carry on the Uchiha bloodline.
You Are
Well true, but at least those two characters had some chemicality. What did Naruto v Sasuke had? A couple smirky comments. What did Naruto & Sasuke & Sakura had? Absolutely nothing.
TenTen and Lee? They actually had a lot of good moments and TenTen even asked Lee how does he feel about relationships and girls. TenTen was shown to be interested in both Lee and Neji.
Compare that to the whole lead characters.
"-to carry on the Uchiha bloodline"
yeah that _would_ be how sasuke thinks
This is my favorite video of yours, and ultimately why I'm subscribed.
Sick vid dude really enjoyed and is actually the kind of response to this I've been trying to come up with in my own head 😂
Funny that the title says "And its not what you think"... Because it was exactly what i thought it was
^^^^^
hot take, but I actually prefer shows where the characters grow and learn from each other without entering relationships
I 100% LOVE YOUR COMMENTARY AND JOKES YOU EARNED A NEW SUB!!!!
That's still the best video you've ever made.
No wonder.
It's the best video on youtube, after all. I'd be surprised if you have a better video that's never been on youtube.
Why do I have this weird feeling I hard fucked this video?
I haven't been focusing as hard on my argument design lately. We'll see, I might end up redoing this and the fandom video at some point.
But I shouldn't trust my feelings right before release, I always feel like my stuff is bad…. So… yeah.
Guess we'll see.
Oh I have a twitter now. Check it out.
Flat chests are like a desert, there's nothing there but it's still fucking hot.
Wait, what was this video about again?
Big T. Larrity flat is justice afterall
you, my friend, are a spring of wisdom
Well done.
Love your argument
Don't really care about relationships but this was good food for thought
Here's a bright idea to future writers (including myself): In order for a relationship (regardless of orientation) to bloom, make the characters real, not cardboards (also not for the sake of shoehorning diversity)
yeah thats so anoying -_-
Ahh the old “shoehorning diversity” line. Just like people “shoehorn” straight couples into their stories right?
@@Lord_Sunday ...what?
@@Lord_Sunday that's not the point of his argument dow
2:14
this is one of your best videos to me, and I love this line. It might be because I’ve thought something along these lines before, but I just feel like this puts it into words perfectly. Unless the sexuality of your character is integral to the arc you want to tell, logically it makes more sense to maximize your options.
it’s such a streamlined and resource efficient mindset lmao
I support this 💯. The first thing I thought of as a weeb, was Ranma 1/2. It's a progenitor of many (harem) tropes but it's OTP makes sense because they share intimate moments (but they're too proud to get together right away.)
6:45 "We got 0 blush from Korrasami"
Procedes to show the blush from Korrasami
Oh really? XD
There was blush from Korra though when Asami told her her hair looked good in season 4
He got a few of his examples wrong, like the "got coffee" thing (it was tea, but same shit), neglected that Adventure Time has way more episodes to work with than Korra, also that whatever Cartoon Network is willing to show is irrelevant to Nickelodeon, which he should know considering he ALREADY pointed out that they didn't even want to run the show because it had a female protagonist, then there was showing #NotYourShield as if that's not heavily bolstered by sockpuppet accounts...I think it's safe to say I had a lot of problems with this video.
Having the main guy and the main girl get together is not a bad thing at all. How it's executed is the important part, and yes, it gets botched up and uses the same cliches over and over again, but that's not the characters sexualities fault, it's the writers incompetence. Making them all bi leaves a lot of potential out, like a backstory on why they're gay or straight. Making your character sexually ambiguous doesn't make them good or interesting, how you execute the story will decide that. So no, I'll make all the characters straight if I want, because that doesn't make the story bad. You can make all your characters bi or sexually ambiguous and still have a shit romance story.
I wanted to comment to this video saying something similar. +1
I don't think that was the point of the video. Rather, I believe it was about instead of focusing about the sexuality of your character - considering the options available to them, to get a relationship that works for both characters, and the story - no matter the gender.
Holy shit did you miss the point of this video. He isn't saying "You should make all of your characters bi" he saying write them with no predetermined orientation in mind. You can have a character only date one specific gender, but keeping in mind that the character is bi means, even if you never out right state that fact, you have an opening for that character to end up with someone of another gender they stay together with for a good long time with out seeming out of character.
InoMercy lol calm down dude, i'm saying that you can write a character with an orientation in mind, that sexuality really shouldn't define who the character is. and yes, i know the point of the video, i'm just making my own point. so chill out lmao
Being bisexual does not mean being sexually ambiguos. Just like you can have a "backstory on how you're gay or straight", you have it for bisexual people. We're a real thing, you know.
Been watching your content for a while. As I put my pen back to paper, this video made me subscribe.
And with this video I start follow you. I AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE WORD OF IT. THANK YOU.
I thought this was an interesting idea. But I feel like people are taking the "make all your characters bi" thing too literal though. As I'm interpreting it, the concept isn't to have all your characters be bi, but to have all your characters be fluid. Characters are meant to grow over the course of writing and develop depth from the experiences that they have. During that development, they tend to have introspective conflict and learn new things about themselves.
A character that is fluid is allowed to be shaped by their experiences and environments. It isn't a matter of "who they are," but "who they are right now" throughout most of their story. If the character is allowed to freely change, then there should be no telling who they'll be most compatible with, as ALL of the characters are being written as products of their experiences within the story. The story goes on, your characters grow (hopefully naturally), and any interactions/relationships that occur and/or develop should feel just as natural. They aren't written as bi characters, they're just written as characters who are who they are. If they develop a relationship, it should make sense through their chemistry over the course of the story. Yeah, spur of the moment romantics can happen, but that's more a plot point than a story. And a relationship SHOULD tell a story, from beginning (initial attraction, genuine friendship, common ground) to end (the relationship itself).
So yeah, maybe "write 'em bi" wasn't the best way to say it, but I liked it nonetheless.
Alan Wade I completely agree
Preach 👍
Exactly the way I took it. He meant more "don't decide their sexuality beforehand" than he really meant "bi". I think the bi phrasing was just to catch attention
I clicked on this to see if it would be worth watching tomorrow or if it was just "Give us more sexual representation" but to a really stupid extreme.
Your comment was the only one so far to properly explain what the video was about and make me decide to watch it tomorrow, thanks.
I agree but he kind of worded it badly. I find it understandable that people would get confused.
Honestly, I think the bigger problem that you're getting at isn't so much a limitation of options, as much as shoehorning romantic sub-plots into stories at the last minute without consideration for how it'll warp character interactions and generally not make sense, because romantic sub-plots are just expected...for some reason.
still agree with you, though. don't limit yourself.
also, am I missing something? what's with the dislike ratio?
I love how you're joyously divisive.
Wow! This is really well thought out. The only thing I could see being a problem for storytelling is the case where the majority of the cast ends up being openly bi (AKA each single person is seen to have relationships with both guys and girls). This could come off as a bit unrealistic, since as you said, being bi is pretty much from birth, and the majority of people are not bi. That said, I love the idea of developing characters FIRST and THEN constructing relationships without regard to gender pairings. I think that would make many stories a lot more interesting and satisfying. Great vid.
As writers, we need to prioritize character over representation. If we do, we will naturally represent everyone with great characters
thank you for your logic
And thank you for yours. You'd be surprised by how many people take offense to that.
thanks
Some of it is pandering for sure. I think others feel pressured into doing it. Others mean well and want to incorporate as many diverse characters as possible, which is noble, but a problem can arise here if the writer lacks an understanding of the people they are writing about. If so, you wind up getting an inaccurate reflection of those people. I think that's worse. In these instances they only represent those people on a surface level, which to me doesn't count as representation at all. If the writing is really bad, they might turn to stereotypes to fill out the character's traits. I've seen it done before and it's extremely awkward.
In short, write what means something to you. Write something you know you can write well.
Ik it's like 2 months later but that is exactly how I view writing should be for characters: write and come up with the character first, their flaws, their dreams, their aspirations, everything, decide what gender or sexuality they are later, because a character should not be made for the sole purpose of representing talking points, obviously there are caveats such as writing and presenting issues for both genders, but rather it should be a person going through experiences, if it's a female character whose lesbian with a single arm, Great. If it's a male character whose bi and whose best friend is a African American female in transition, who lost their legs from a war, cool. Write characters based on your story and what you want to write about, not a character meant to fulfill a quota for the story because that's how you get underwritten characters who don't feel real to the audience.
*Reads title*
This is the quality content I'm subscribed for.
I always thought it’d be an interesting dynamic in a story for two hetero male protagonists to be actual soul mates through a hardship; they’re straight and have separate girlfriends and all, but at the end of the day, even with sex left at the front door and sticking to platonics the two are still the best couple. I’m talking the bros who were the hardest bros in all of brohood.
I was kinda iffy going in but now I'm glad I did because this video is genius. Great job dude.
Also lowkey you're absolutely right on the Evo and Naruto bit lol.
I feel like this approach undermines the significance of platonic relationships. There is something to be said for a relationship formed between two characters who don't even consider each-other romantic options, or between a pair of characters in which only one considers the other to be a romantic possibility.
Josh Fox Well, it's not like bisexual people are attracted to everyone. You can still write platonic relationships.
@@raapyna8544 naaaaah there are no friends theres only PREY
I disagree with this comment a bit, you can still have platonic relationships when your characters are open to any sort of relationship, this is a personal example but I’m an openly bi person and I do have lots of platonic friends, many of whom are gay. You can have platonic relationship even with characters who can date everyone. But I wouldn’t say I shared the same kind of bind with someone I’ve dated than one of my friends.
The thing is, this opens up more for platonic relationships as well. In way too many stories, the lead man and woman are often forced into a romantic relationship when they could have worked much better as a platonic friendship, while all the romantic chemistry they have with a character of the same sex is rejected solely because of their gender.
Seems like a lot of people think that you are saying that every character should be stated to be bisexual, instead of authors just treating every character as bisexual when writing. Dunno why though, I thought you put it well.
Yeah, I'm seeing that, even though he literally explains it several times though out the video.
Right? Like was I the only one that heard the whole Dont make a point of being all OH HEY WE HAVE BI CHARACTERS EVERYONE! I mean, it wasn't exactly subtle. I think what we have are people that skimmed hte vid, assumed hte content by the title and went off commenting because they already had opinions on the subject before even watching the video.
If Friends the TV Series does that, oh Wow, so many much more Juicy Drama.
This is so relatable to me, because I'm pretty sure a big thing that contributes to my bisexuality is my inability to make a fucking choice and my obsession with keeping my options open
So the Christians and Muslims are right, it is a choice?
@@WhiskeyPatriot thats not how I see it, I believe your sexuality is not a conscious choice, but it can be influenced by experiences throughout your life I think. Just like if you like certain kinds of movies, music, food, etc. You can't actively change how you feel about those things, but they can be shaped by experiences and trauma from your life. I think sexuality works somewhat similarly and can sometimes be tied to your personality in a way.
All I'm hearing is don't constrict your writing choices.
Whatever happened to a real friendship arc? Romance has been done to death and is usually incredibly cringey when done in kids shows (LOK springs to mind)
"We got zero blush from KorraAsami"
>Shows Korra blushing at Asami in the next scene
Okay you had me a little nervous going in I wasn’t sure where this was headed but great video, good points, lovely stuff.
So you're saying writers should keep their options open for characters in case they want to randomly improvise a forced relationship late in the story like they did in Legend of Korra? How about writers actually plan out their plots with any romantic relationships as a part of that rather than having romance for the sake of romance? And also, a person's sexual preference is part of who they are as a character. If you want to write good characters from the start, don't mark anything, inculding their sexual preference, as "undecided".
Algarith THANK YOU
AshBlueSky that’s just lazy writing, or even bad writing, by doing that your doing more bad than good to your characters, simply because like it or not, sexuality defines what kind of interactions the character will have, a gay dude and a straight one are not going to act the same way around the opposite sex, and if all your characters are “bi” until the end, then all you have is a bunch of bland characters since their characteristics where not defined from the beggining, we as an audience need to know that information so we can relate to the situation of the characters
AshBlueSky just by sayings being straight is a personality trait you lost me in the entire argument xd
AshBlueSky but now being serious, being fexible with your writing is one thing, not having your character well defined is another, I can’t just state in one chapter that my character gets flustered around boys just to end up in a girl at the end just because chemestry, by doing that you are missing the conflict, a character needs to have preferences, so they can deal with the situations that those preferences make,
@AshBlueSky Chiming in to agree. If a writer wants to keep a character's sexuality ambiguously then they can. Oh a male character blushed and freaked out at dropping trou in front of a group of guys? Could be flustered because he's gay/bi or because he's a straight dude who embarrasses easily. Do people act differently around the gender(s) they're attracted to? Sometimes. Some don't until they feel the need to show interest. Not everyone sees a gender they want to bang and immediately changes.
Though I believe the argument here is silly. You can have a character planned from beginning to end with every bit of their fate predetermined. That can be well written. Same can be said for letting a character organically grow as the seasons move on. If you plan for a 6 season arc with your character bible and you get cut short then you're left scrambling to make up for lost seasons. If you're organic you can salvage a bit easier because you left your options open. Both styles of writing have merit.
Am I literally the ONLY PERSON who didn't pick up on Korrasami until I saw reviews on the series?
No one did. It wasn't well developed.
GIRGHGH Aka Girg OMG same!
You're not alone...
I didn't even see an underdeveloped relationship though...
GIRGHGH Aka Girg cause there wasn't one. Lol. They just threw it in at the end without thinking.
the big problem that your suggesting this will fix is that "writers decide to pair up characters without considering how good/bad their chemistry is", which is far more of an issue of bad writing then narrow/close-minded thinking; if the decision for main guy and main girl to fall in love is made from the start then the writers should be building their personalities to compliment/fit each other from the start as well, same goes for gay pairings when writers choose to do that.
the only place this idea works as intended is long running episodic stories that aren't written out that far in advance, where the solution to intended pairings not working is have one or both of them under go character development to make their relationship fit if that relationship is important to the story, or at the vary least if having the two brake up would be detrimental to the other parts of the story.
now sure the "characters A and B were intended to fall in love, but character C had better chemistry with B, so we rewrote it so that happened instead" thing can and does happen, as Korra exemplifies(if poorly executed), same as any other instance of writers changing things about their story mid-production.
this suggestion could just as easily be made as "don't give your characters gender/sex until you know who is in love with who, then assign gender/sex and sexuality based on if you want them to be able to have kids or not(which in setting with magic or advanced technology might not require them to be straight, but not all stories will have that option you get my point), or other story/theme/plot/setting limitations", which would be useful for anyone that's making a complete(or at least most of the) story prior to starting production/publication.
I agree
I can appriciate that professor Layton music, good job on the video!
I appreciate this video so much! Please keep making awesome content!!
but just because people have good chemistry doesn't mean they should date
Shipping culture likes to shove platonic love aside, unfortunately.
Tikibird79 shipping culture ,like fandoms,and fan clubs are just another form of religion,ironic isn't it?
Kyle Walters I wish I could pin this
Yes but if you are choosing to pair up your mc, it should probably be with the person they have chemistry with vs the person they don't. The story is just better for it. If your not going to pair them up with someone that they have great chemistry with, then rather don't pair them up at all.
Fandom: "They have the best chemistry, they should date!"
Me: "But they are siblings!"
Fandom : ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I think "make them all bi" is a bit off the mark, as bisexuality in and of itself is a unique experience that deserves attention and nuance within pop media. Perhaps a better way to think about is that all characters should have Schroedinger's sexuality: they are both all orientations and no orientations until observed within the narrative.
For example, I had this one character who was a sniper within a spec ops unit. Although he grew close with his comrades-in-arms, I couldn't write him into a romantic/sexual relationship without feeling like I was sacrificing some element of who he was, and I couldn't realistically get him to *want* that in the first place. It then dawned on me that this dude might be asexual. Now, I hadn't written him that way on purpose; the orientation just sort of emerged on its own from the way his personality made him interact with and think about other characters. So I read about being asexual, saw where the experiences of real-life asexuals lined up with how I'd written this sniper guy, and carefully sprinkled a few extra details into what I'd already written to make it look like I'd planned it.
N. L. G. Yeah, that's kinda what he ment to say, he just didn't articulate his point that well.
Schrodinger's sexuality is actually a great way to describe it, I think I'm gonna use that phrase from now on. He definitely worded it poorly. Probably half of the criticizing comments wouldn't be here if he had rephrased it.
I totally agree with you. Some of my characters are SPECIFICALLY one sexuality for a certain reason, half of one story of mine circles around a gay character who's facing his repressed sexuality after years of abuse, but for most of the other characters I kinda just decide "they're probably straight?" unless it would make more sense or improve the story if they weren't.
He said in the video that if you want to write a character where their development or the plot focus around sexuality that that is fine. If being gay is an integral part of the characters experience then it should be included, but if all you want is a romantic subplot then you should use the best pairing for it.
Ha! Schroedinger’s sexuality, I love it! Screenshotting this comment for further reference. Thanks for putting it that way!
As an asexual, I can confirm that I am a sniper. Lol
That's interesting because that's kinda like how realizing you are asexual goes. You notice these "relationships" around you and you want them because everyone tells you you should. At some point it dawns on you that you don't want relationships in the way other people tell you that you do. And eventually you look at everything as a whole and see who you really are. You find these other people like you and it's relieving. So um yeah, people are just the universe's OCs
Hey, this video really made me think about the way I construct my stories, thank you very much :)
Really fantastic video you my friend have earned yourself a new subscriber now
I don’t think I agree with the message of this video, but I agree that most main-character romances are waaay overdone. I think chemistry between characters should come after the realization of the characters as separate people, sexualities and all. Any relationship formed over the course of the show should add depth and impact to a character’s arc whether it’s romantic or platonic. After all, the reason romantic subplots are so common is because the “kiss the girl” conclusion signifies the resolution of conflict, or the end goal of a fictional character.
Also, I’m just a really big supporter of friendships being platonic without having to turn romantic, because it’s rare to see a friendship represented so genuinely.
This is an interesting way to view relationships and something I'd never really considered before. Your argument makes a lot of sense, and I'm inclined to agree with you. Thank you for sharing.
I feel like even making all characters bi to leave options open completely locks off another option.
Asexual.
Having little flirty moments would seem out of character, unless that asexual character is sociable and self aware of perhaps their own charisma.
oh man, i found your channel recently and im so proud of you. You're saying the right thing!!!
(and i really support that part about eva and naruto qwq)
Consider the following: Not every character needs to have a romantic suplot, and not every pairing of characters needs to be a couple. By making characters bisexual to 'open them up to new possible pairings', all you're doing is creating even more romantic tension where there could be really good platonic friendships instead. Characters straight up not working together on a narrative scale is a much larger problem that can't just be fixed by giving the character a different partner, and writers have proven over and over again that they're incapable of making good, interesting romance plots.
You're right. The shipping potential would be nearly limitless. I say "nearly" because, y'know, people can't get with objects and animals.
Just Some Guy with a Mustache you give shippers too much credit, look up scoobyxshaggy, i haven’t but i dare you, you will find something
You clearly haven't seen enough anime. Gijinkas exist for a reason! 😂
Have you seen the bee movie?
MoonBeam ya like jazz?
"yet"
I see where you are coming from, but just write good characters. Everyone being bi isnt reaaallly realistic. Just have natural relationships, if it comes then it comes
Loved this so much, and agree with you on almost every point. definitely using this advice for all of my writing going forward.