The Flanderization of Steven Universe

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  • Опубліковано 22 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 2 тис.

  • @Cartoonshi
    @Cartoonshi  Рік тому +367

    Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark.deals/cartoonshi - Enter promo code CARTOONSHI for 83% off & 3 extra months for FREE!
    Twitter - twitter.com/cartoonshi AND twitter.com/scarfedbrit
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    • @Aisubun
      @Aisubun Рік тому +16

      Yo he got a sponsor let's go

    • @WSendam
      @WSendam Рік тому +6

      You’ve hit the big leagues you champ ❤

    • @Mossedhoodie
      @Mossedhoodie Рік тому +5

      Ayyyeee you got a promotion!!!!! Leta go😊

    • @Mossedhoodie
      @Mossedhoodie Рік тому +1

      ​@@Aisubun Ahlie hes never got one beforeee❤

    • @yulee3266
      @yulee3266 Рік тому

      ​@suspicious catwhat makes it the most degenerate show out there? And what does Rebecca being Jewish have to do with it

  • @hubadubatron1045
    @hubadubatron1045 Рік тому +5562

    I still cannot comprehend how SU is the punching bag of modern cartoons when SVTFOE is right there

    • @DrawciaGleam02
      @DrawciaGleam02 Рік тому +440

      Eh, Star actually FOUGHT most of her enemies instead of talking it out. I think that's why.

    • @TranshumanMarissa
      @TranshumanMarissa Рік тому +1284

      @@DrawciaGleam02 I mean, Steven fought most of his enemies too, He just prefered talking it out when he could.. but even then, he usually fought them *while* talking it out.

    • @jlwiseman98
      @jlwiseman98 Рік тому +669

      ​@@DrawciaGleam02 tbf star's usage violence isn't the reason the show has the issues it does.
      Its problems are far more unique tbh

    • @tiablue9106
      @tiablue9106 Рік тому +511

      very different stories.
      SU: seen as an untouchable godly show for 2-3 seasons until ppl finally had to say "y'know...this show has some problems", then just soaked in the disappointment for a few years
      SVTFOE: pretty well-liked for most of its run but its reputation quickly tanked near the end
      SU just gave ppl more time to fester over their problems during the dang hiatuses. and the fandom being horrible didn't help

    • @prowolf633
      @prowolf633 Рік тому +45

      I would also mention on MLP, both FIM and the horrible current generation

  • @hoodieanimations08
    @hoodieanimations08 Рік тому +4597

    Man, Cartoonshi's going through a whole character arc. From edgy humor and rage, to calm and fair.

    • @Cartoonshi
      @Cartoonshi  Рік тому +1844

      I started my channel at a time where edgy humor and exaggerated anger were present in a lot of the videos I (shouldn't have been) watching as I was growing up. I'm glad to finally shake that off as it makes me feel more comfortable being more genuine, and I don't want to turn people away with edgy BS. I still like the occasional edgy joke but you get what i mean.

    • @MutatedPercent
      @MutatedPercent Рік тому +233

      ​@Cartoonshi
      Glad to know you're gaining your style then. And it's okay, we've all did/said stupid stuff because it was popular. Plus you were young and you still are.

    • @ThatAllSeeingEye
      @ThatAllSeeingEye Рік тому +105

      ​@Cartoonshi シ I subbed for your E;R styled content back in the day, but im glad you found a style that makes you more unique. You and Reble Taxi are what i consider to be the true big shots of the cartoon sphere on UA-cam.

    • @justanothercomment
      @justanothercomment Рік тому +43

      @@Cartoonshi Glad you're feeling more comfortable man! Happy for you :)

    • @pingus9934
      @pingus9934 Рік тому +44

      @Cartoonshi シ Good because i watched your other videos and they were interesting topics but then you when you yelled and went all edgy and shit on the topics it turned me off. Lept coming back because of the interesting video titles but again the edginess was too much. You were pretty calm and collected in this video though and i applaud to you. Again im a nobody so you can take my word with a grain of salt but yah know

  • @RandumbComNtary6251
    @RandumbComNtary6251 Рік тому +1285

    Minor note:
    13:00 Steven does NOT get "pulled" out of his connection to White Diamond. The impact & pain of him ramming both their heads into pillars knocks him out of it.
    He went through with it, and I would bet money if he didn't knock himself out of it, he would have kept going...

    • @064razor
      @064razor Рік тому +30

      He would have made her perform Ermac's Hara Kiri

    • @gamerbear84
      @gamerbear84 Рік тому +207

      I think someone noted that he tried to make White headbutt the pillar that had already been dented by her punch, had he not, she would've been shattered, but instead his head connected before hers could, breaking the connection.

    • @newthejsterjacob408
      @newthejsterjacob408 Рік тому +128

      @@gamerbear84 Yes that is exactly what happened, if he didn't accidentally destory that pillar White would be dead

    • @RandumbComNtary6251
      @RandumbComNtary6251 Рік тому +52

      @@gamerbear84 OH, I'll have to watch that scene again. White got so lucky

    • @argentum8417
      @argentum8417 Рік тому +55

      i never actually processed that he was attempting to shatter white, i always thought he was just taking out his anger by harming her while in her body, in a “see what you’ve done to me” type of way, not flat out murder.

  • @asaknight321
    @asaknight321 Рік тому +5536

    I feel like the biggest thing holding this show back was the writing and pacing. The diamonds while cool deserved to have better writing and white should've never been redeemed.

    • @yggdrasilsaltar
      @yggdrasilsaltar Рік тому +473

      i definitely feel like if they werent rushed to get a finale out the writing wouldnt have taken such a large hit

    • @asaknight321
      @asaknight321 Рік тому +411

      @@yggdrasilsaltar exactly, if anyone is accountable it is cartoon network for holding them back and it's Rebecca sugar as well for making some of the decisions and choices that ultimately got it that far down the drain

    • @LooneyNuke
      @LooneyNuke Рік тому +295

      I feel like the only one who even had a chance of redemption was Blue, and even then I feel like that would have taken a lot of time

    • @LeBongFairy
      @LeBongFairy Рік тому +115

      And lapis.. just no. She was the worst part of the show after the first season lmao

    • @majesticmo5048
      @majesticmo5048 Рік тому +194

      @@LeBongFairy i'll never understand how people actually like lapis. I couldn't stand her after season 1. Her moody angst and split personality whenever she was talking to steven compared to when she talked to other gems annoyed me. Not to mention the countless shitty things she does to other people without realising it

  • @eow4317
    @eow4317 Рік тому +2035

    The show has lots of issues, and they shouldn’t be ignored. But people have taken the hate waaay to far. It’s still a fun show that people can enjoy

    • @garibaldibritann1240
      @garibaldibritann1240 Рік тому

      The only people who can't enjoy it was Twitter. They're obnoxious as hell and they can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, and they will hunt you down until it ends

    • @OakTreeIsaac
      @OakTreeIsaac Рік тому +43

      Most definitely

    • @daniapfel2825
      @daniapfel2825 Рік тому +12

      Yeah

    • @tanishambrowne1137
      @tanishambrowne1137 Рік тому +13

      I agree

    • @brandonlego
      @brandonlego Рік тому +33

      Yes, Steven Universe is still an Enjoyable watch despite so many flaws the show had that honestly can't be ignored. Even coming from a Big Fan like Me that Watched the Show from start to finish at a time when less people were watching Cartoon Network anymore while some didn't really like the show. The Hate it gets is way too far even when I saw someone bash on it to an Extreme Amount and not being reasonable in the slightest. It wasn't a Perfect show but I still love for what it is and what it did Right.

  • @WSendam
    @WSendam Рік тому +1224

    I remember when cartoonshi use to be a simple drawing now he’s grown up to be a slightly taller drawing

  • @Deemee-ed
    @Deemee-ed Рік тому +475

    I wouldn't say Steven "easily forgives" people, he's more like... willing to wait for them to change
    Heck, he sings a whole song about *change* , not forgiveness
    He shows patience to people, which is why he can forgive them, BUT ONLY _AFTER_ THEY'VE CHANGED AND ACTUALLY IMPROVED (the best example is Peridot: she starts off as an enemy, he shows her patience, she improves as a person, and that's when he forgives her)
    Also, Steven has met people who didn't want to change, and he did NOT like them (such as Kevin and that fusion between Acquamarine and Ruby)
    I think the adjective that fits him the most is "patient"

    • @minotostar
      @minotostar Рік тому +11

      Their name is Bluebird

    • @Loner098
      @Loner098 9 місяців тому +12

      Steven almost reminds me of Dr. Kenzou Tenma from Monster, where his medical/surgical morals seem to cause him to hesitate when taking a life, despite also being forced to save another somehow.

  • @TheLexusKitsune
    @TheLexusKitsune Рік тому +370

    I always thought Steven was more the kinda person to see the best in everyone as opposed to just blindly forgiving everyone

    • @alexanderhunt88
      @alexanderhunt88 Рік тому +8

      Ask Kevin that

    • @owenbridgers
      @owenbridgers 3 місяці тому

      @@alexanderhunt88well that’s because Kevin was an asshole

  • @milanesadearsenico
    @milanesadearsenico Рік тому +1319

    Also we must remember Rebecca at least fought to do something with the ending after CN cancelled the show due to Garnet's wedding. They wanted to make a whole season for the diamonds

    • @xRaineDropsx
      @xRaineDropsx Рік тому +171

      Man, that would have been great.

    • @matti.8465
      @matti.8465 Рік тому +489

      Rebecca arguably sacrificed the show's reputation to have a on-screen gay wedding, which you gotta respect.

    • @prismavoid3764
      @prismavoid3764 Рік тому +240

      god it really makes me wonder what the show could've been like if we'd gotten a full Season 6 set on Homeworld. While I don't think there was any way they could've redeemed the Diamonds that wouldn't have pissed SOME people off, I definitely think they could've given the situation a lot more nuance and development which would've at least let more sane and rational people see it as the best possible solution to a really messy situation

    • @rappingbeaniedog347
      @rappingbeaniedog347 Рік тому +131

      I am conflicted. On one hand, a season involving the diamonds getting the consequences of their actions thrusted into their faces would've been a god send, I feel like the show should've focused more on that than anything considering what it did wind up doing, or to put it better, just have that happen sooner than it would've. I feel like that was more of a problem due to it's poor pacing though that it took that long.

    • @jimmyjohnjoejr
      @jimmyjohnjoejr Рік тому +40

      @@matti.8465 i can't respect that because I am homophobic

  • @DimeUhDozen
    @DimeUhDozen Рік тому +2745

    Finally, someone giving SU some fair character discussion instead of the blatant flanderization addressed in this video. Another banger, Cartoonshi.

    • @NintendoMeister2260
      @NintendoMeister2260 Рік тому +70

      *Cough* Lily Orchard *Cough*

    • @wozziey
      @wozziey Рік тому +101

      ​​@@NintendoMeister2260 it's funny how Lily says she hates SU but always mentions it in *EVERY SINGLE VIDEO* she makes

    • @NintendoMeister2260
      @NintendoMeister2260 Рік тому +34

      @@wozziey I think we got your point in the future length movie you made about how much you hate the show. Even though in the hands of anyone else it would be like 20 minutes if she didn't exaggerate all of her points and let's not even talk about the pedophile allegations.

    • @eduardopantoja9115
      @eduardopantoja9115 Рік тому +6

      ​@Wozziey to be fair, it's best to know what you hate then to not know it and blindly hate it.

    • @TheTediousFellow
      @TheTediousFellow Рік тому +6

      ​@@eduardopantoja9115 I'd get it but for 4 years is Ridiculous

  • @Magosspud
    @Magosspud Рік тому +823

    Seeing someone give an excessively hated show a fair shot is genuinely refreshing

    • @InnerAtanih
      @InnerAtanih Рік тому +20

      It’s not “hated”. It’s criticized. There’s a difference

    • @Magosspud
      @Magosspud Рік тому +152

      @InnerAtanih No its definitely hated. There's plenty of actual criticism but that doesn't offset the gigantic amount of people who just despise it

    • @nayussysuccer
      @nayussysuccer Рік тому +102

      @@InnerAtanih SU is like the punching bag for modern cartoons and it’s very clear that a lot of them didn’t even watch the show. I blame that one popular video essay titled something like “su is a bad show for bad people.”

    • @JamesP7
      @JamesP7 Рік тому +61

      @@nayussysuccer The Lily Orchard vid is the worst one that even many SU critics call out

    • @blizyon30fps86
      @blizyon30fps86 Рік тому +8

      @@InnerAtanihno there’s actual hate

  • @JesseGolo
    @JesseGolo Рік тому +390

    Nothing ruins a show quite like memes people gaslight themselves into thinking are canon.

    • @TheCottonCandyQueen
      @TheCottonCandyQueen 10 місяців тому +13

      Say it louder so the people in the back can hear you

    • @klickonthat5244
      @klickonthat5244 8 місяців тому +16

      It's especially worse with anime, it's amazing how quick a character can get misinterpreted through a meme.

    • @tharinypremkumar6284
      @tharinypremkumar6284 6 місяців тому +1

      @@klickonthat5244 astoflo fans

    • @Wane0319
      @Wane0319 Місяць тому

      ​@klickonthat5244 I know this was forever ago but a good example of this is Naruto. The show as a whole.

    • @rickanimationsnewchannel
      @rickanimationsnewchannel 20 днів тому

      santiago sonic

  • @gp-1542
    @gp-1542 Рік тому +427

    I like how in a way this conversation really took off when dreamworks make jack honer

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +69

      I think it’s because the 2010’s was when, in storytelling, redeeming villains kind of became a selling point.
      Then Jack comes in reminding people why we love deliciously evil villains and that, sometimes, they need to be taken down.
      It’s seen in other shows like the Legend of Vox Machina. Sure, a guy may have to realise that a demon has been exploiting his trauma and need for vengeance, but it doesn’t shy away from the fact that, especially when the evil necromancies tells you she’ll kill again if it means her dark god will destroy everyone, she needs to be stopped… and the fact that someone who she and her husband manipulated and tortured for years was the one to do it was satisfying.

    • @allanromeo360
      @allanromeo360 Рік тому +68

      ikr, puss in boots 2 single-handedly changed the cartoon community lol, and im ok with that

    • @aff77141
      @aff77141 Рік тому +48

      Especially because with Jack Horner, the heroes didn't even actively cause his end--it was the fact they were willing to fight him and destroy the wish, that he died from his own hubris

    • @miticaBEP07
      @miticaBEP07 Рік тому +4

      @@christopherbennett5858 I'm still scared that The Owl House will redeem Belos with remorse for killing his brother. They already redeemed pretty much everybody (I wanted a big final battle, all the coven heads looked like fantastic mini-bosses, and something shattered within me when I saw Terra, one of the adversaries I was the most hyped for, reduced to a pawn in the Collector's game and ultimately not disposed of by the heroes).

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +7

      @@miticaBEP07 I get that.
      Frankly, I was scared that they’d redeem Big Mama in Rise of the TMNT as well.
      Wow. We’re actually scared about these writing decisions now. What’s happened?

  • @milanesadearsenico
    @milanesadearsenico Рік тому +2302

    People that called Steven a wimp failed to understand the message that being Empathic isn't being weak. It allows you to connect with people, to love and to be loved. And to be loved is to be changed. And that, as Steven says, is his most important power

    • @thecod2345
      @thecod2345 Рік тому +235

      I think Steven shows the strengths and weaknesses of the empathetic approach. On one hand kindness is undervalued as an option and there is a lot of times that Steven shows how that option should be considered more. On the other hand, the show often categorically refuses to not take Steven’s side which leads to instances where an unbiased and logical eye would see that the time for talk is over and where empathy should not be an option, and instead the writers paint a situation in Steven’s favor when it isn’t or bend the situation to follow Steven’s ideas when it shouldn’t.
      I’d say Steven is to empathetic protagonists what Luz is to outsider protagonists, both are often good and dogshit representations at the same time.

    • @T_E_G
      @T_E_G Рік тому +142

      ​@@thecod2345 Tanjiro from Demon Slayer is a good example of kindness- he's nice to everything and everyone but knows when it's time to step up and do your job. He always feels bad for Demons, but still kills them in the end for what they've done. Not only that, but he'll stop/scold someone from doing something bad, like Inosuke and Zenitsu, his close friends. He'll even stand up to injustice and is determined to his goals and word.

    • @frog3630
      @frog3630 Рік тому +77

      @@T_E_G exactly, tanjiro evidently shows empathy and sympathy for any demon, but still gets the job done. I just wish steven was like that because the diamonds definitely didn’t deserve redemption (ESPECIALLY white diamond).

    • @xempororhxppyx
      @xempororhxppyx Рік тому +122

      @@frog3630 the only reason Steven redeemed the diamonds is so they would heal corruption. After that, he wanted NOTHING to do with them. 💀

    • @frog3630
      @frog3630 Рік тому +28

      @@xempororhxppyx yeah but they’re still walking around freely which is odd in my opinion

  • @Peridot5xg
    @Peridot5xg Рік тому +975

    Great video! Steven Universe isn't a flawless show. Arguing might work once, but it's always good to prepare yourself for a good fight next just in case arguing doesn't work. Steven might not be the *beeeest* character from the show, but he's definitly not a wimp. HE CAN THROW SOME HANDS

    • @Peridot5xg
      @Peridot5xg Рік тому +39

      @@yaboizero. [I am still doing it! Just... not as much as i've done before]

    • @YvngKrishna
      @YvngKrishna Рік тому +47

      Also, i feel like people forget hes still a kid in the show. No shit he doesnt wanna kill people, hes a kid!

    • @maxiwaxipads
      @maxiwaxipads Рік тому +1

      Oh god, I was right. I SAW YOU IN TWO PLACES WITHIN A MINUTE OF DIFFERENT VIDEOS????

    • @asaknight321
      @asaknight321 Рік тому +3

      @@YvngKrishna I think that we can all agree upon but there's 2 things that many people question including me. 1. Why did the diamonds get away Scott free and without punishment? Not saying they had to get shattered but them going to space prison or getting bubbled would've worked. 2 if that's the case then why did he shatter jasper over something so little?

    • @MisPinkButterfly
      @MisPinkButterfly Рік тому +6

      ​@@asaknight321 I wouldn't say the diamonds are redeemed in any way. For your first point, they (Crystal Gems) can't exactly do anything because the diamonds still have a planet to take care of. All Steven did was plant the seed that they could change; in the movie they do but only because he asked. Steven actively avoided going to Homeworld in the movie (after he leaves) and in Future. Until, he gets desperate and tries to see if they can help. Second, if you're referring to SUF (where he's 16), that was because of his childhood. He just learned days ago that he's suffering from PTSD. His mind wasn't exactly in the best shape, so he shatters Jasper. He attempts to shatter White as well, for obvious reasons.
      His rational mind wouldn't want to shatter gems or hurt anyone, which is why when it happens he freaks out. When you're in an agitated state, you can't think properly and do things that you probably wouldn't.

  • @MuchAdoAboutADD
    @MuchAdoAboutADD Рік тому +337

    Looking back, I don't think I've ever thought Steven as a character was terrible or wimpy, so I don't think I ever realized how much people hate and continue to hate him. I loved the "solve conflict with kindness" theme; probably why I loved Waymond in Everything Everywhere All At Once. But man, the writing choices in the later episodes were really just too much for me to get over. Ah well, maybe I'll be more forgiving if I ever get around to rewatching it.

    • @joyc.e.7511
      @joyc.e.7511 Рік тому +22

      I loved Waymond and like Steven for the same reason. I think kindness and trying to talk things out are great traits to have. Great traits to illustrate in media, especially with male characters and not depicting it as weakness.

  • @Duskool
    @Duskool Рік тому +89

    This reminds me of when people also did this with Deku/Izuku from My Hero Academia, where the joke was he cried at everything and at everyone, even though it only happens in the first few episodes/volumes of the series (And most of the times he cried either were comedic effect or actal crying with good reason to do so.)

  • @steampunk-llama
    @steampunk-llama Рік тому +482

    I think people also really forget the fact that for the majority of the show Steven is 13/14 years old, and 16 in Future. Teenagers aren’t exactly known for having emotional stability even in the best of times, and yet despite that Steven still chooses to be optimistic. And people really fucking hate that in Western animation protags for some reason

    • @audreyharris7643
      @audreyharris7643 Рік тому +14

      Interesting

    • @xavierjohnson2321
      @xavierjohnson2321 Рік тому +16

      I know I'm 3 months late, but I think (at least for Steven) the reason is that there's usually a time to talk and a time to take action especially when early on in the series he knows and has been told that you can't try and reason/trust everyone.

    • @manat31790
      @manat31790 Рік тому +15

      Aang is 12 years old and he has a healthy/happy ending despite skipping generations. Dick Greyson the Robin started at 12 years old, fought in a hellhole like Gotham and he grew up fine. Sonic the Hedgehog is 16 years old in comic adaptations and he's cool and confident despite suffering a lot. Amuro Ray (Gundam) is 15 years old and is actually angsty, goes through actual wars, and learns to get over being selfish. Uso Even (V Gundam) suffers even worse at *13 years old,* having seen almost everybody he loves die gruesome deaths yet he still sticks to his beliefs and comes out on top. The idea that people don't like optimistic characters in animation is just wrong. And there are countless other teenage protagonists who are inspirational because of their developments yet never lose their ways.
      Steven Universe is *fictional.* I don't care if he's a teenager, because he can be whatever the writers want him to be. And what the writers wanted was to have him lose his innocence and become an a-hole in SU Future. I am not disappointed because the protagonist is a pacifist. I am disappointed because the writers think growing cynical and arrogant is natural for a hero/savior because of "PTSD", therefore they stopped making Steven optimistic like he was at the start of the show. The writers, for the sake of "realism", practically abandoned what made this show extremely good in the first place. THAT's what I don't like about SU Future.

    • @steampunk-llama
      @steampunk-llama Рік тому +34

      @@manat31790 I dunno how to tell you this but one of the most common symptoms that occurs with those who develop PTSD is abnormal behavioural changes such as unusual aggression (and he absolutely has developed PTSD as a result of what he went through).
      Steven becoming less optimistic due to trauma is a natural progression of his character *because* he never got a chance to act as anything other than a cheerful therapist for others, of course he's gonna lash out! And the ending of Future shows him getting therapy to deal with this in a healthy way, with him still remaining optimistic. He's not the exact same Steven anymore, but he's definitely not arrogant or cynical like he was during his lowest points.
      I'm certainly not saying you have to enjoy these changes, nor am I saying the way Future was written was perfect.
      But just because other series have their teenage characters undergo awful, traumatic situations and bounce back relatively unphased doesn't mean that *every* single character has to follow that path as well, regardless of if those situations are technically less traumatic than others

  • @SergioLeonardoCornejo
    @SergioLeonardoCornejo Рік тому +3709

    Steven Universe's worst parts were the fandom and how annoying Steven gets when he tries to play moral judge.

    • @kingofcards9
      @kingofcards9 Рік тому +219

      Sounds like the writers.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +211

      @@kingofcards9 Yeah, the writers and the executive producer really dropped the ball there.
      Doesn’t help that the show was written by the artists.

    • @kingofcards9
      @kingofcards9 Рік тому +121

      @@christopherbennett5858 artists with degrees in gender studies.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +46

      @@kingofcards9 but any creative writing or language arts courses under their belts?

    • @kingofcards9
      @kingofcards9 Рік тому +18

      @@christopherbennett5858 none that I know of.

  • @47ratsinahoodie
    @47ratsinahoodie Рік тому +391

    I remember saying a lot that Steven never forgave the diamonds and that he obviously did not like them but no one ever really cared just because he let them live :/

    • @DrawciaGleam02
      @DrawciaGleam02 Рік тому +106

      It's the fact that consqeuences for the diamonds were so vague.....if they were exiled maybe people would've been fine with them not being shattered.

    • @DefyReality-ll2cg
      @DefyReality-ll2cg Рік тому +41

      @@DrawciaGleam02 This! This would have been a perfect solution as they were sadly needed to uncorrupt all of the corrupted gems. If they were exiled after the uncorruption process maybe the reaction to their "redemption" would have been a bit less hated.

    • @rickbill06
      @rickbill06 Рік тому +46

      ​@@DrawciaGleam02 they can't exile the leader of a fucking nation. What whould become of the people? Steven knows that he can't punish them, because it could cause wars or rebels against him. Let's say they are exiled and Steven or another gem takes over, some of the gems of homeworld could miss the diamonds and go to them, and the diamonds could become a little angry after the exile and then start a war again. Pretty simple stuff, the diamonds can't be punished because they are too important for it. The same thing happens in real life like with Yakuza and the Mob.

    • @officerwalter8877
      @officerwalter8877 Рік тому +18

      @@rickbill06 It’s better than letting tyrants who have committed genocide get off scot free knowing they won’t have action taken against them.

    • @rickbill06
      @rickbill06 Рік тому

      @@officerwalter8877 Kim Jong In is literally making nuclear bomb against law. He is a tyrant do you know why we don't do shit? Because they have the power to bomb us and it will end up as loses for both sides. The Gems can literally destroy earth at nearly any moment Steven knows that he is leading with a time bomb and any punishment or any bad feelings they have can lead to bad consequences to earth the entire of earth is at Steven shoulders and he is more mature and responsible than you because I'm sure you in power whould probably cause world war III with these thoughts.

  • @elianaasiedu
    @elianaasiedu Рік тому +495

    I also think while Steven didn’t forgive the diamonds, the show did because they never face consequences other than being estranged from Steven. I don’t know why the stakes are so high in modern cartoons but the punishment never marches

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +32

      Reminds me of fanfiction in the 2000’s where everything was longwinded, threw every dark idea at the screen and just went to crazy extremes without really factoring in how those things would affect the story.
      Frankly, shows like Pose and Kotaro lives alone feel like an antithesis to this as the stakes are often more small scale and personal, more character focused and emotionally attached. The end of the world is too big for any of us to comprehend but we all know that the world doesn’t stop turning to take care of a hurt child. And shows like Pose and Kotaro depict that, whilst humanity can suck, it also has the potential to do good.

    • @jbonceu2457
      @jbonceu2457 Рік тому +36

      They never get to flesh out the punishment and proper "redemption" of the diamonds because the show was cut out when the ruby sapphire marriage episode was released.

    • @wakspacific6928
      @wakspacific6928 Рік тому +2

      Definitely executive meddling

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +2

      @@jbonceu2457 Then please explain why the watermelon episode existed.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +5

      @@wakspacific6928 Yeah, honestly most countries that wouldn’t allow it would’ve already banned the episode and, due to the show’s ratings decline, there wouldn’t be much of a threat to Sugar supposedly threatening to pull the show if it meant the episode didn’t air.
      Plus, considering what happened to Total Drama Island in the UK, censorship will happen even if it messes up continuity.
      Now, the term executive meddling gets thrown around a lot. Especially as an excuse for things not happening. Sometimes a show needs it. Remember the backlash to Voltron where the creators tried to blame Dreamworks, only for Dreamworks to refute it, showing they have a very hands off approach to creators?

  • @cecijayx
    @cecijayx Рік тому +438

    one thing that a lot of people miss when talking about this is that crying is considered a very “feminine” trait and that if you cry you must be feminine and therefore weak. our society has framed crying as the antithesis of strength, and calling someone a “crybaby” is an immediate shut down. but that simply isn’t the case. because steven and the other characters do not shy away from crying in the show (steven in particular is very sensitive in the first season, read: they don’t have any arms), many people point and laugh. steven is framed as a weak protagonist because he’s a man who cries.

    • @fruitpun6h
      @fruitpun6h Рік тому

      It’s not because he cries but because he cries over stupid shit

    • @scoobertdoobert7348
      @scoobertdoobert7348 Рік тому +16

      No he just cries all the time and it kind of takes the impact away when he tears up like every episode

    • @Mrcleanfrfr
      @Mrcleanfrfr Рік тому +130

      @@scoobertdoobert7348 He's a kid, why wouldn't a twevle year old cry when faced with what he went through

    • @annoyingnessbeginswithme5698
      @annoyingnessbeginswithme5698 Рік тому +57

      ​@@scoobertdoobert7348 bro any twelve year old would ball their eyes out if they had to fight people who were out to kill you often

    • @powpowouchy5
      @powpowouchy5 Рік тому +5

      @@annoyingnessbeginswithme5698the battle hardened 5000+ year old gem warriors cry all thr time too. That makes no sense

  • @Signedcentaur
    @Signedcentaur Рік тому +137

    Tldr; Steven isn't just a pure good pacifist who tries to argue his way out of situations, and cries if something goes wrong. He is a paladin, through and through.

  • @micaiahborchers8914
    @micaiahborchers8914 Рік тому +42

    Steven Universe is really special to me. I just got into it WAYYY LATER like YEARS LATER than everyone else but it's just such a beautiful, heartfelt show and it's helped me through so much pain. I know about the continuity errors, flaws, bad characterization - whatever, whatever. I get it, but if every porkchop were perfect WE WOULDNT HAVE HOTDOGS
    anyway. that's all. thanks for the video! you've earned a subscriber. i don't want to think about all the failures of my new favorite show, but as a writer myself i'm acknowledging them and trying to figure out how to prevent them in my own work.

  • @christopherbennett5858
    @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +764

    Frankly, I agree that Steven did not forgive the diamonds… but the plot did.
    The focus is less on their atrocities and more on Pink’s. Pink Diamond’s story is told in reverse and, because everything she did is front and centre and the writers don’t have to show her face consequences, it was easy to make her the sole problem origin. The Diamonds became animation’s Streisand effect. It didn’t matter what the characters thought because, like if the writers wanted their ideal ending, they would get it.
    It also doesn’t help that the Diamonds had the near entirety of their “redemption” happen offscreen with none of the characters subjugated by the diamonds outside of Steven really having a say in the matter. Like, if Garnet was allowed to show how hurt she’d be that Steven told Blue Diamond, the gem who tried to kill her for existing, that he saw her as family… that would at least be something.
    Even the most negative critics of Steven Universe will admit that the shows had some really good episodes. Heck, season 1 and 2 are really good examples of children’s fiction.
    For me, however, Bismuth the episode was where I fell out of love with the show. Bismuth was a great character but the attempt to villainise a character who had lost so much to the diamonds, when the show was in the middle of the Cluster arc, with the whole “you’re just as bad as them” spiel and keep her bubbled for years afterwards… that was just the thing that got me to question everything about the show. It was like when I read Breaking Dawn and read about Jacob imprinting on a newborn. And just like how the Twilight sage tried to refute that imprinting was always romantic, the characters in Steven universe say (or don’t say) one thing but the story tells the complete opposite.
    Now, character redemptions in stories are not a new thing. Growing up, I was a fan of Digimon and, in every season, at least one character turned from villain to hero. They were often a pawn in someone else’s game, misguided, bewitched or lashing out at the world. No one initially buys their redemptions and they work their asses off to try and do something. They were active participants in the process. Sometimes they win people over. Other times, they would fail because there were some things they couldn’t just put right and their victims needed to be saved and recover first. And it was okay. The two that stand out to me the most are how Beelzemon tried to save Jeri and failed because she was still traumatised by what happened but, by the end of the show, she was recovering and seemed like she’d forgive him when she’d moved on. The other was in the second season where Cody is conflicted on seeing Ken as a good person because he did not just hurt Cody; he hurt everyone in the digital world.
    Those two examples show two things. Forgiveness is not how you move on; it’s what you can show when you have. The other is that, whilst you may be able to forgive what someone did to you, other people should also be able to recover just like yourself.
    Unfortunately, a good amount of shows and movies seem to forget these things, especially when the villain getting redeemed is a love interest or family. Rise of the TMNT (a show I love) may have done better with Draxum in season 2 if the season hadn’t been halved due to cancellation but, in a mix of making Draxum a passive participant in his redemption, no stories where Draxum faces those who he affected outside of the turtles and Mikey (a character who almost always sides with those who have been abused in other iterations) telling his father that the only way to heal from trauma is to forgive the one who did it to you… it left a sour taste in many mouths.
    Movies like Star Wars and programs like She Ra paired up abusers with their victims yet went all out with such disturbing levels of violence that the kisses and confessions in each finale turned stomachs around the world.
    Shows like MLP went so overboard on the villain redemptions that, not only did it make the shows predictable and boring to many but also caused some weird hypocrisies to appear.
    At some point, redemptions became a selling point in storytelling but less about compelling stories about characters overcoming their past but more on some weird messiah complex that, with just the right words, you can reach across the aisle and bring back those who had lost their way, disregarding everyone they had hurt, out of obligations of either love or family rather than characters actively wanting to be better. At some point, redemption became less about interesting stories (like with Peridot) and more about some sort of white saviour complex.
    Apologies for the rant but had to get it off of my chest.
    You do good work, Shi. I’m glad you’re able to self reflect and go back and revisit things with a clear head.
    I think there are glimmers of decent quality nowadays. Maturity doesn’t always mean a grey morality. Sometimes it means picking a side knowing that the right answer isn’t going to be an easy one. I just wish that writers could show that once in a while… or at the very least stop redeeming the leaders of genocidal groups in fiction.

    • @asaknight321
      @asaknight321 Рік тому +41

      Okay hear me out.. imagine if we got 1 scene in the movie opening where they were near him and he just got a bit uncomfortable or unsettled by all 3. IMAGINE THAT TINY SMALL SPECK OF A DETAIL that could've made it make more sense

    • @aff77141
      @aff77141 Рік тому +14

      Definitely this, really good points

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому

      @@aff77141 thank you. I think I got a little carried away in length

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +2

      @@asaknight321 You mean something that could be easily overlooked?

    • @LucaxCorp
      @LucaxCorp Рік тому +34

      Don’t apologize for anything. You decided to cook and ended up with a 5 star meal.

  • @hustinyano.a
    @hustinyano.a Рік тому +55

    What I don't like about SU is not the show itself but the fandom AND hatedom. People that love or hate SU could NOT stop talking about the show

    • @nayussysuccer
      @nayussysuccer Рік тому +14

      The fandom was so fucking awful back in the day. Thankfully it has chilled out now but are constantly bullied by the hatedom, which i think is much more annoying than the fandom nowadays. Like if you say something positive about SU and have that get a lot of attention, you get jumped on.

    • @garibaldibritann1240
      @garibaldibritann1240 Рік тому +1

      @@nayussysuccer One of main reasons why i hate current entertainment discussions: constant bandwagon about the said subject to the point kicking the dead horse

    • @ivoneo2806
      @ivoneo2806 3 місяці тому +1

      That doesn't sound like a reason to hate su but whatever and at least imo it's better now

  • @WDB2005
    @WDB2005 Рік тому +911

    I feel bad for rebecca, she had a great show going but executives meddled with the product

    • @JoseSanchez-fk9dg
      @JoseSanchez-fk9dg Рік тому +213

      The rose quartz pink diamond twist was plan from the beginning by Rebecca so you can’t blame them for every creative decision. What you can absolutely blame them for was the stupid Steven Bombs and month long hiatus that made it hard to follow and keep track off.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +108

      @@JoseSanchez-fk9dg Yeah.
      A lot of writers who face backlash claim that things were planned from the beginning. It seems like a big gotcha card to rebuke criticism but it just makes people wonder why, after all this time, no one looked at it again and went “Hold on, something seems wrong.”
      Seriously, how many times does a writer respond that something that was well received was “planned from the start”?

    • @presseagainidareyou4704
      @presseagainidareyou4704 Рік тому +100

      It was still a poorly managed show, like, the Owl House managed to clean things up very well and keep an engaging and deep plot despite being cut short HEAVILY. SU was cut short but the creators never decided to focus on anything important

    • @crfstewarje
      @crfstewarje Рік тому +63

      @@christopherbennett5858 I don't see what's wrong with creators mentioning that their story was planned from the start. Alex Hirsch from Gravity Falls planned the big twist from the start, and the writing is better than Steven Universe. I

    • @MiMiLock58
      @MiMiLock58 Рік тому +23

      @@JoseSanchez-fk9dg i think rose quartz shattering pink diamond may have been planned from very early on, but i don't think they came up with the rose quartz IS pink diamond twist until later

  • @suarez9108
    @suarez9108 Рік тому +176

    The Steven Universe hate is so massive that 2 "Steven Universe good" videos from big channels don't even add up to 1 "Steven Universe bad" video from a smaller channel in terms of views.

    • @dinolover
      @dinolover Рік тому

      Good, its a shit show and a niche group liking it doesnt erase that

    • @helenaperez4343
      @helenaperez4343 Рік тому +88

      It depresses me tbh, because it’s far from a perfect show and it has a hefty amount of flaws, but it feels like people just hate on it for the sake of hating on it without contributing anything new to the discussion

    • @-themightymittens-
      @-themightymittens- Рік тому +48

      Yeah, it's sad seeing it be such a hated cartoon. It's not perfect, but sometimes it does feel like people hate on it just because they can

    • @animeonepiecelife1663
      @animeonepiecelife1663 Рік тому +27

      For me I personally saw more flaws than good qualities about the show as it went on. I just couldn't bring myself to love or like it as much as I used to as the show progressed.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +11

      @@animeonepiecelife1663 Same. After the episode, Bismuth, I just couldn’t enjoy it without seeing those flaws.
      Reminds me of when I used to enjoy Twilight. Then Breaking Dawn happened and I read the bit where Jacob imprinted on Bella’s newborn baby… then I reread the series and saw all of these faults.

  • @lincolnlencioni108
    @lincolnlencioni108 Рік тому +584

    My main problem with the show isn't the fact that the diamond s are forgiven. Its the fact that they faced no punishment except for a stern talking to. Also the fact that white diamond was redeemed with less than 10 minutes of screen time.

    • @matti.8465
      @matti.8465 Рік тому +23

      Mudering or bubbling the diamonds wouldn't really be in-line with the themes of the show

    • @anonymoose662
      @anonymoose662 Рік тому +81

      @@matti.8465 they corrupted, bubbled, and murdered jasper who isn't nearly as bad as the diamonds, and was just another victim of the war and pink diamond's carelessness at the end of the day

    • @BunnyRot439
      @BunnyRot439 Рік тому +45

      @@anonymoose662 And jasper was brought back and it was not ANY of the characters who did those things to Jasper say for the last part and that was an accident. It was Jasper who did that to themself. The gems or Steven calling for a death penalty would have been the WORST writing mistake in the show cause it IGNORES EVERYTHING the characters in it stand for. Also no they are not off scot free. Steven DID almost kill white diamond in a moment of angst and weakness so he very much still bears a grudge. That isn't getting off scot free. And yes I call it a moment of weakness cause it was, it was a laps in his judgment. Idc people on the internet being so eager for violence these days, that is rarely ever actually the answer.

    • @jbonceu2457
      @jbonceu2457 Рік тому +21

      ​​@@anonymoose662 Jasper being corrupted, she did that to herself though. I know Jasper was as much of a victim as the other corrupted gems, etc., but like, don't give her TOO much of a slack, she is still accountable to her own actions. She was a consistent bully all throughout the show and never wanted to change either.

    • @cupidpop
      @cupidpop Рік тому +39

      fr white diamond was built up to be this all powerful fearless empress god that nobody would ever dare to mess with or oppose and steven "defeats" her by saying 'i know you are but what am i'

  • @toon4thought
    @toon4thought Рік тому +40

    I appreciate that someone like you was willing to take some time to pump the brakes on all the discourse and be all "yeah, you're REALLY going too far guys". Character development right there.

  • @sophisticatedPJs
    @sophisticatedPJs Рік тому +19

    THANK YOU. Everyone wants to act like he just ignored the diamonds' actions entirely and solves every conflict with a hug, it's like they haven't even watched the show. They were removed from power and never once does steven even show a hint of forgiving them for their actions, just taking Bismuth's advice right before leaving. "Roaring at the lions in their own language" if you will.
    While I do have my own thoughts on parts of this video (I personally really enjoyed Future as someone with their own childhood trauma) I'm honestly just relieved to hear someone even giving it a fair chance. Most "discussions" around this show are just people shitting on it blindly and thoughtlessly.

  • @deadite3879
    @deadite3879 Рік тому +91

    Redeeming someone like the diamond, are not bad inherently but that's something you do over a entire season or even series. it is not something that is done over just a few episodes.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +21

      And even then, the bulk of their redemption is skipped over in the two year timeskip.
      Makes you wonder if the writers actually cared about telling that story.

    • @garibaldibritann1240
      @garibaldibritann1240 Рік тому +16

      @@christopherbennett5858 They have a restriction due to Garnet wedding so it makes sense that they need to rush everything on their sleeves to ramp up the stories, hence the endgame felt rushed

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +8

      @@garibaldibritann1240 Definitely could’ve removed a lot of the watermelon episode. I was thinking something just added in “Legs from here to Homeworld”.

    • @cometsgallery
      @cometsgallery Рік тому

      how do you redeem something that has slaughtered countless organic life, wiped out planets, enslaved their people, were a metaphor for homophobes and abusive family members? i dont think 20 seasons could ever make that okay

    • @garibaldibritann1240
      @garibaldibritann1240 Рік тому +3

      @@christopherbennett5858 That Watermelon episode (escapism) is a part of the story which doesn't make any sense to erase it

  • @gloriaris.effect
    @gloriaris.effect Рік тому +170

    I'd like to point out (even though I know nothing about Future) that PTSD comes from one traumatic experience. Steven had literally dozens of traumatic experiences and likely has C-PTSD (complex post traumatic stress disorder). C-PTSD can have entirely different symptoms than PTSD and manifests in lots of different ways; ones that even the medical field has trouble characterizing. As a person with C-PTSD, all of the clips of Future I've seen actually handle it pretty well.

    • @newthejsterjacob408
      @newthejsterjacob408 Рік тому +30

      Yeah and don't worry the show does not say he has PTSD specifically just trauma, probably because they still wanted to leave it a bit general so people could relate, everyone just says that's what he has as its the easiest to say

    • @ponponpatapon9670
      @ponponpatapon9670 Рік тому +20

      the only thing about Future I dislike is that Steven seems to be reduced to *only* his C-PTSD. i'm not defined by my trauma FFS, so why is he??

    • @nicosfangs
      @nicosfangs Рік тому +4

      @@ponponpatapon9670you know, im unsure, but i think that Steven universe future takes place during a time in his life where hes really dwelling on what happened to him, he can never catch a break from his own mind, things trigger him constantly, etc. id like to think usually steven is just normal ol' steven, but during suf, he cant come to be himself during a time in his life like this especially since he sees himself as a monster who cant be a people pleaser anymore

    • @newthejsterjacob408
      @newthejsterjacob408 Рік тому +36

      @@ponponpatapon9670 Future didn’t just focus on his trauma but also how this is affected by life rapidly changing. How the relationships which kept his mind stable are also changing but he learns that it’s important to embrace this change

    • @timburtonlover369
      @timburtonlover369 Рік тому +1

      Where did you hear that about PTSD? Seems weird they would change the definition of a condition to exclude the people it was initially discovered about (soldiers that likely had multiple traumatic experiences in war)

  • @Jul-fu4yu
    @Jul-fu4yu Рік тому +44

    The discussion about the diamonds evading consequences brings to mind Queen Moon's similar situation where she was pardoned despite her secret actions causing chaos for everyone.

  • @kawakawaii
    @kawakawaii Рік тому +77

    YAY CARTOONSHI GOT HIS FIRST SPONSOR!!!!
    Anyway ive noticed a pattern.
    Every time a show enters season 4, something weird happens.

    • @Office_chair
      @Office_chair Рік тому

      Yeah most of the time if a show goes past season 2 it starts to kinda get worse from there.
      At least in my opinion.

  • @illusionaryheart3325
    @illusionaryheart3325 Рік тому +58

    “They are the only characters on the wiki with scrollbars on their crime section”
    This had me dying

  • @honeycomb170
    @honeycomb170 Рік тому +48

    It’s really sad that People nowadays are so willing to use series/products with plenty of issues as excuse to act incredibly shitty to towards it and the people who like it. I have lost mutuals relationships for Semi-liking/Defending things in very fair ways that even they would’ve have understood very fairly for the others Franchises that we were fans of and acted similar in the past. Seeing people like this that are so readily available to throw away their morality for things they dislike is so disheartening to me.

  • @sososbizarreadventure
    @sososbizarreadventure Рік тому +15

    I don’t understand why Steven gets hate for wanting to talk out issues instead of fighting, does anyone actually just punch people in the face irl when they disagree?? Glad you’ve had a more open mindset, I hope others follow in your footsteps

    • @GalekC
      @GalekC Рік тому +2

      The show or the character?

  • @burnttoast3925
    @burnttoast3925 Рік тому +34

    I love that both videos ive seen defending overblown hate on SU (the other being the roundtable's vid about the hate wave the show got a few years back) do point out the shows flaws, but also explain how those flaws have been wildly twisted into something very innacurate.
    also that jack horner meme is quite ironic considering that song was steven's LAST resort.

  • @sacreddeer9711
    @sacreddeer9711 Рік тому +591

    I think a lot of people also forget one crucial detail: SU was cut short. It was cancelled because of the Rubypphire kiss.

    • @kingofdemons948
      @kingofdemons948 Рік тому +234

      Most of SU’s flaws can be blamed Cartoon Network screwing over the show. Rebbeca said she really couldn’t make the show in her image.

    • @sacreddeer9711
      @sacreddeer9711 Рік тому +27

      @@kingofdemons948 yes, thank you!

    • @TulpechaidoplaysMC
      @TulpechaidoplaysMC Рік тому +15

      If it was cancelled due to them kissing it would've been cancelled since Season 2

    • @sacreddeer9711
      @sacreddeer9711 Рік тому +143

      @@TulpechaidoplaysMC It wasn't cancelled on the spot, it was cut short. Let's not deny blatant homophobic censorship.

    • @NintendoMeister2260
      @NintendoMeister2260 Рік тому +54

      @@TulpechaidoplaysMC I'm pretty sure back then it was believed Ruby was male and they ignored her being addressed with female pronouns until the wedding.

  • @Vleaso
    @Vleaso Рік тому +458

    Cartoonshi saying something good about Steven is a nice redemption arc

    • @WSendam
      @WSendam Рік тому +37

      Now where’s the villain arc

    • @klamacz47
      @klamacz47 Рік тому +44

      No, that's the villain arc

    • @joshbuoy8661
      @joshbuoy8661 Рік тому +17

      Better than the Diamond redemption arc in Steven Universe for sure

    • @quangamershyguyyz7166
      @quangamershyguyyz7166 Рік тому

      @@devildolphin2102 People like you are the reason I lose hope In society every day.

    • @andalilbitqueer
      @andalilbitqueer Рік тому +13

      ​@@devildolphin2102 nah, channeling your anger into something that's actually productive is a good thing actually.

  • @AizakkuAnalysis
    @AizakkuAnalysis Рік тому +273

    It's probably down to Steven being a child. But I remember in the first few seasons he was all about fighting. Whether it was him excited to use his new powers, or watching the gems fight.
    He loved watching people throw hands. Where'd that Steven go? 😂

    • @jstrachan2602
      @jstrachan2602 Рік тому +94

      He grew up? Learned that violence doesn't solve every problem, at least not healthily?

    • @sneakysneakyraccoon8538
      @sneakysneakyraccoon8538 Рік тому +86

      @@jstrachan2602 sort of like how children play soldier toys until they went to an actual war.

    • @madderandmadder
      @madderandmadder Рік тому +48

      It's easy to be gungho about fighting and getting to play the hero, until you're severely traumatized by it lol.

    • @AizakkuAnalysis
      @AizakkuAnalysis Рік тому

      @@jstrachan2602 Except violence 100% would've solved all his problems.

    • @Laiser
      @Laiser Рік тому +70

      It's an intentional part of his character that he stopped loving violence when he real violence started affecting him and his life.

  • @jeepmega629
    @jeepmega629 Рік тому +84

    If he found out what Jack Horner did, Steven would try to do what he did to White Diamond to him.

    • @maxhadanidea
      @maxhadanidea Рік тому +4

      @redloiyu654jay not likely

    • @maxhadanidea
      @maxhadanidea Рік тому +3

      @redloiyu654jay p much

    • @kaylakay1241
      @kaylakay1241 Рік тому +17

      ​@redloiyu654jay his pink form is kinda op

    • @mentosvagabond
      @mentosvagabond Рік тому +17

      @redloiyu654jay if anything, the shield spike wall that he using to accidentally kill that orange gem girl is probably enough, I doubted Jack Horner can even be punch and go through like 7 big ass tree and still not break a bone like Jasper.
      So that Steven spike shield wall is like a hydraulic press and Jack is like a crayons box.

    • @jeepmega629
      @jeepmega629 Рік тому +15

      @redloiyu654jay Steven has the powers of a god, so the odds aren’t looking good for Jack.

  • @Silly-The-Third
    @Silly-The-Third Рік тому +65

    Maybe it's weird for me to feel this way, but sometimes I like characters having inconsistently. It makes them feel more human, and sometimes inconsistences aren't always a bad thing. There were definitely things about Steven's character I found annoying, but one example I can think of that I found to be enjoyable was his hatred of Kevin. A lot of people pointed that out as "unfair" and as an inconsistency in his characterization or wtf ever, but people aren't fair sometimes, and I can understand why he felt the way he did about Kevin. Not only did Kevin make him feel objectified as Stevonnie, he knew that Connie was made to feel the same way. If I were in a similar situation, I wouldn't give a shit if I treated people of worse offenses differently.
    (Something else to note, I am going off of my memory. I dont know if it was actually "inconsistent" with his character or not, or if it was handled well or poorly. I haven't relwatched the show in awhile, I am just pulling from my memories and my feelings at the time that I remember lolol)

  • @ruminatingreptilian5907
    @ruminatingreptilian5907 Рік тому +209

    *Cartoonshi:* "I think Steven Universe is somewhat overhated".
    *SU Fandom: "You weren't supposed to do that."*

    • @burlyfoil1022
      @burlyfoil1022 Рік тому +12

      "A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one"

  • @absolite6
    @absolite6 Рік тому +159

    Steven Universe had so much potential as a show. I fell in love with the mysteries of the gems and many of the characters (Peridot is still best gem) but what initially hindered my enjoyment was the pacing, especially during the "bomb format" of Season 4 through to 5.
    It was always so annoying that amongst dozens of plot threads going on we were essentially forced to come to a halt to focus to the townies, who I mostly found boring.
    The Pink Diamond twist was where the show started to test my patience with its writing. To this day I'm still very conflicted about it but I still held onto hope that maybe it could still do something good. But no.... I understand that they wanted to do the character development in reverse thing but with the amount of damage caused by Pink I wasn't invested, I was just....really sad.... It never felt like Steven got the closure he needed.....
    Still stand by that White is the one Diamond that should never been redeemed or at least gotten off half as much for her actions and that Blue is probably the only Diamond that had potential to be a legitimately redeemed character. Her first interaction with Greg was fascinating when I first saw it. It would've been a perfect way to allow Greg to be more involved.
    I have loads more to say but that's a few of my thoughts. I haven't revisited the show and I don't intend to any time soon but maybe a decade down the line I will.......once the bitter taste is out my mouth.....

  • @Flugel_Halogen
    @Flugel_Halogen Рік тому +47

    people act like Steven is the only one who forgives people for doing a lot of fucked up things, in fact most main characters do that

    • @maxwellschwass
      @maxwellschwass Рік тому +9

      Honestly, I've always knew that I consider forgiveness/diplomacy as alternative heroism

    • @3starsburningbright
      @3starsburningbright Рік тому +7

      The episode Volleyball in SU Future shows that to you pretty blatantly too, Volleyball comes to a realization that Pink Diamond actually _hurt her_ and that she had just been making excuses for her this whole time. And that’s something I really relate to as someone who has gone through similar.

    • @ntinosaggelopoulos6718
      @ntinosaggelopoulos6718 21 день тому

      Well he is doing it so careless

  • @thatkingdomheartsguy9615
    @thatkingdomheartsguy9615 10 місяців тому +16

    The Diamonds didn't go unpunished, though. They're forced to fix all their mistakes for an eternity. Repairing shattered gems, bringing exiled gems back, etc. They didn't focus on their punishment, but bits of it are there. Especially in the future. This whole "the Diamonds faced no consequences" thing is a ridiculous statement made by people who didn't watch the whole series.

    • @commonbridge4735
      @commonbridge4735 8 місяців тому +2

      Facts

    • @ntinosaggelopoulos6718
      @ntinosaggelopoulos6718 21 день тому

      Still they are dangerous war criminals

    • @thatkingdomheartsguy9615
      @thatkingdomheartsguy9615 21 день тому

      @@ntinosaggelopoulos6718 that doesn't really change anything I said though.

    • @ntinosaggelopoulos6718
      @ntinosaggelopoulos6718 21 день тому

      @@thatkingdomheartsguy9615 I mean they should at least to be in prison somewhere where they aren't cable to perform any kind of crime again not matter if they said they changed

    • @thatkingdomheartsguy9615
      @thatkingdomheartsguy9615 21 день тому

      @ntinosaggelopoulos6718 okay cool an actual argument. I kind of agree with this, but I'm more sick of hearing they don't face any consequences whatsoever. I think sending them to prison wouldn't work because they can't undo all the harm they've caused. If they're stuck in jail somewhere, then they can't fix the shattered gems or undo the forced fusions. I think it fits the story more for them to try and undo their crimes. Now whether they should be imprisoned after or not is a whole other thing.

  • @Rosy_Blossom
    @Rosy_Blossom Рік тому +30

    Steven kinda reminds me of three characters, Tanjiro, Takemichi, and Deku. All three have kinda the same motive but a little different. They want to try to help others if they can or can't change. Like Takemichi isn't strong but is good with his words to the point some may listen, Tanjiro would feel bad for a demon for what had happened but still has to end there life and not forgive their actions but feel bad on what they've been through, Deku would understand someone else pain and try to help them but won't forgive them at any point. Steven is like those three characters in my thought. All three would want to help others but not always forgive them at times, to which in Steven's case in both the original show, movie, and future.

  • @froggykimmy
    @froggykimmy Рік тому +17

    I never could truly hate steven universe even with all of it's flaws (and there's a lot) so seeing you defend this part of steven makes me happy. Thank u

  • @Dylan-ds3dc
    @Dylan-ds3dc Рік тому +35

    Honestly, I wish we’ve seen more of the reasons on why the diamonds created such a vast and destructive empire, as well as a more well written ending. Also, how would the end up uni the end?

    • @BunnyRot439
      @BunnyRot439 Рік тому +11

      To be fair the show got canceled so that's why the ending was rushed. They probably wanted to explore allot more and maybe make the "redemption" take longer if they had the time.

  • @tarzanfashionist1575
    @tarzanfashionist1575 Рік тому +8

    personally i think that Jasper Un-shatterd scene added more to fuel to steven's degrading mental health, essentially showing that 'its fine if he fucks up he can just fix anything' which also just adds to the general message of future that you can't really JUST depend on yourself to fix an issue. tho yeah admittedly the way they brought her back was kinda sleezy

    • @jtlego1
      @jtlego1 Рік тому +4

      And it's not like the scene is without consequences either. Jasper takes the moment as an admission that Steven is worthy of Diamond-level respect and Steven *does not take that well.*
      Hell, everyone *balks* at the end of Everything Is Fine when Steven just casually mentions mid-breakdown that he shattered Jasper.

  • @LectroArt
    @LectroArt Рік тому +36

    This is a great video, and I agree with a lot of the points made! Although with the topic of the Diamonds being punished for what they did, while I agree they should be punished, would there ever be a punishment that would actually work?
    They're a bunch of all-powerful space tyrants, I feel like the chances of some kinda punishment working on them would be next to none. Them being pacified feels more like something done out of necessity than just being "what's right."

    • @DrawciaGleam02
      @DrawciaGleam02 Рік тому +5

      Taking away their powers? Exiling them from Gem Society?

    • @MiMiLock58
      @MiMiLock58 Рік тому +8

      yeah, this is why i think they messed up as soon as they made the diamonds these all-powerful beings. like how do you even stop that

    • @audreyharris7643
      @audreyharris7643 Рік тому +14

      ​@@DrawciaGleam02 how do you take away there powers

    • @Saltedroastedcaramel
      @Saltedroastedcaramel Рік тому +1

      @@MiMiLock58 I say they messed up after making the diamonds an abusive family metaphor too

    • @MiMiLock58
      @MiMiLock58 Рік тому +3

      @@Saltedroastedcaramel i think it could've worked if it was just that from the beginning, and they were weak enough to actually be defeated somehow (poofed and bubbled probably). could've been a "it's cool to want to give people a chance to change but sometimes it just doesn't work" type deal
      actually now that i'm thinking about it i guess that's what they did with bluebird. could've been way more impactful lol

  • @pidgedidge
    @pidgedidge Рік тому +39

    I think that IF the show had not redeemed White Diamond at least the hate would be lessened. There was already the idea that she controlled the other diamonds, literately controlled them if they chose to disobey her. It wouldn’t have been good, and it still would have been a cop out, but at least it wouldn’t have been redeeming the one who was actually consciously committing all these crimes. The “big bad evil guy,” as it were. I do however think that Pink Diamond got the short end of the stick as far as redemption goes. You see her story in reverse, so by the end of the show the other diamond’s crimes aren’t the main focus but hers are so in comparison she seems much worse than she actually was. Not to say she was a good person at all, but at least she was more the antihero, morally grey kind of character instead of a flat out evil dictator. Also if Lapis got redeemed Jasper should have too. People love to overlook that scene where Lapis admitted she liked hurting Jasper, and Jasper herself was so much more sympathetic later on.

  • @Sootielove
    @Sootielove Рік тому +8

    Gotta say that Steven Universe the character is transgressive in having a male protagonist being so emotionally open. The fact he cries so much is mocked feels like it comes from a source of "Haha! Men crying is pathetic!" (note: he is also a child throughout in a show for children) The show tried so hard to do something different and portray queer and atypical characters but it only got mangled by the studio and loathed by the public for it.
    I'm more than aware of every issue of Steven Universe's writing (strange pacing, awkward thematic conflicts, series of episodes focusing on its weakest elements like the townies) but knowing the background of how Rebecca Sugar's team was rushed, cut, and bullied, I forgive a lot of it. Again, the diamonds were redeemed so quickly so Rebecca Sugar could have the first gay wedding in children's media. They had to rush their ending because production was going to be cut after Garnet's wedding. That's straight up censorship due to homophobia. I think people forget a) how quickly society has progressed from the early 2010s homophobia and b) how hard this show worked to allow queer and atypical shows in its wake.

  • @glowstickspinalfluid
    @glowstickspinalfluid Рік тому +15

    my favorite part of the jack horner memes is when they use the steven crying from the last future episode, because at that point, he literally killed someone just a few episodes ago

  • @Toriyamaus
    @Toriyamaus Рік тому +40

    I can't quite put into words how... Cathartic(?) it feels seeing Cartoonshi (partly) defend this show now.
    Years ago, he was one of the only people I saw critique the SU film (which I found myself unable to enjoy) and I felt good to see someone back me up (even if he was a little edgy).
    Recently, I've been thinking back on the show, the good parts, how much they met to me, and even the ending, and I was thinking "Maybe we were to hard on that show..." And now Cartoonshi posts this.
    And it's funny, because... it feels *even better* than when I heard him trash the film.
    Point is, Thank you, Cartoonshi. ❤
    It's been great to see you grow, and to grow as a person with you. I even put your Amphibia video in my comfort video playlist because of how good it makes me feel.

  • @st4r_b0y80
    @st4r_b0y80 Рік тому +20

    As someone who adores Steven Universe, I agree with everything in this video. Steven inspired me to start doing something when others hurt me or wouldn’t listen. It changed my life and helped me get through some really tough parts of my life.

  • @Viggar
    @Viggar Рік тому +33

    I still really enjoy the show despite its flaws, to me the good outweighs the bad, and the mischaracterization of Steven that everyone seems to think is true gets pretty annoying after 5000 copy-pasted tweets

  • @geet9830
    @geet9830 Рік тому +228

    the closest steven has ever gotten to how memes portray him as is in the bismuth episode. he randomly gets uncomfortable at bismuth's fighting and refuses to use a weapon that would shatter the diamonds. and even then, he still fights back and poofs bismuth when talking doesn't work.
    related: the bismuth episode always bothered me. it's all steven preaching that killing is wrong and how killing the diamonds would make them just as bad to bismuth, who has seen her friends die in war against homeworld.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +49

      Doesn’t help that, since the writers confirmed racial coding is used in their characters, it’s basically Steven whose family created and benefited from the oppression talking down to a gem of colour about shattering the diamonds would make her just as bad as them… in the middle of the Cluster arc.

    • @garibaldibritann1240
      @garibaldibritann1240 Рік тому +36

      @@christopherbennett5858 Please stop using racial code references it's been done to death and i don't want any case of racism when discussing about the show

    • @yourehereforthatarentyou
      @yourehereforthatarentyou Рік тому +28

      @@garibaldibritann1240 you can ignore it all you want but that doesn’t mean it’s not there

    • @jbonceu2457
      @jbonceu2457 Рік тому +39

      You can't blame steven, he is just a child full of innocent pov facing all this war shenanigans etc. Of course he will not side with "an eye for an eye" ideals. He will always find a good and empathetic resolution as much as possible.

    • @mrdinosaur7690
      @mrdinosaur7690 Рік тому +7

      @@jbonceu2457 that's honestly what I appreciated about Steven and why i hated his arc in SU future. Stevens entire arc was always about optimism and peace.

  • @sinartist6948
    @sinartist6948 Рік тому +9

    for me, obvious example of "redeemed does not equal forgiven" is Sunset Shimmer in first two films of Equestria Girls. she's main antagonist in first film, does horrible things but gets her chance to be better. in second film, when she realized that what she did was wrong, everything seems okay so far. she's not a bully anymore, she has "friends" but people still despise her for what she did. even her "friends" constantly remind her about her past. because they did not forget and did not forgive

  • @CinnamonGrrlErin1
    @CinnamonGrrlErin1 Рік тому +8

    "Conflicted feelings" is putting it mildly. I think my biggest takeaway is sheer disappointment: I loved the main series, even the filler and townie episodes (Joel Hodgson as the mayor was why I started watching it to begin with) and even some of the weak story elements. And the movie was a wonderful follow up.
    And then Future came along and basically made what came before it unwatchable. They gave us no lore or history or anything to supplement the main series, just a complicated mess of drama that undermined everyone's character development.
    They also plagiarized 2 different episodes of Adventure Time, "Don't Look" and "Abstract" for the finale, except Adventure Time did it so much better. Finn and Jake don't get hugs to cure them when they turned into monsters, their friends and family talk to them to help them process their feelings in a useful and mature way. And that's why I'm rewatching AT for the 50th time and I don't mind never going back to SU.

  • @Flugel_Halogen
    @Flugel_Halogen Рік тому +11

    being self sacrificing, having zero self preservation and putting other people's happiness their own are also things most main characters do

  • @nocturnalcove9736
    @nocturnalcove9736 Рік тому +126

    The show was at its peek during Peridot's redemption arc. No idea what happened but the show just slowly rolled down hill and fell off a cliff when they redeemed White Diamond.

    • @owenfautley
      @owenfautley Рік тому +7

      That was because the show was cancelled by CN due to the wedding so they had to rush the ending.

    • @blizyon30fps86
      @blizyon30fps86 Рік тому +1

      It was canceled at season 4

  • @VicMeep
    @VicMeep Рік тому +85

    I'm currently watching the video but despite the... abundant amount of flaws and issues, I still do love the good and great things about the show despite it being overshadowed by all the bad writing. Including with some moments being very relatable with a scene I just rewatched today from a fan edit.
    I even found Steven's anger outbursts in Future to be related and kinda well done in some places. Outside of the times he almost killed his father and actually did kill someone.
    I'd be down with it coming back as long as it meant more time and care was taken into the writing.

  • @sumthinorother9615
    @sumthinorother9615 Рік тому +5

    He’s kind of merciless, actually. He frees Peridot the first time, not because he cares about her, but because he thinks he can get information out of her. She says something about the cluster, and he thinks it sounds important. It just kind of works out from there.
    Everyone else he helps redeem is because he was hopelessly outmatched, and they would destroy his entire planet if he tried to fight them. That’s just how every major conflict is structured.
    Bismuth, of course, he fights and keeps imprisoned until Sapphire mentions all her friends are dead. So he obviously knew it would be safe to release her, he just chose not to, for some reason.
    He does sometimes try to heal his enemies, probably because it sucks to watch someone die. (Also I think he literally feels their pain, so that’s an incentive.) But after doing that, he did once do the “kicking someone out into deep space,” thing, so take it for what you will, I guess.

  • @luxury_nightmare
    @luxury_nightmare Рік тому +7

    Hot take? I think blue was the only diamond who it made sense to give a redemption arc to. After pink supposedly died she would go into mourning, neglecting her colonies and dedicating her time to preserving the life on the planet pink loved. Also it would make the ending to the movie much more satisfying if blue was the only diamond left. Her and spinel take pink off the pedestal they both put her on and learning how to move on. Two broken people learning how to heal

  • @barf_lord_9399
    @barf_lord_9399 Рік тому +33

    Trauma can affect so many people differently. I also had a near death experience a few years ago and I still get freak outs and nightmares from it. I think Steven is very relatable in suf. So just because it's not relatable to you doesn't mean it portrays it poorly. The show makes me feel so much better because I feel less alone so it hurts to have people say Steven's feeling are wrong because it's exactly how I think and feel

    • @barf_lord_9399
      @barf_lord_9399 Рік тому +3

      I got send to the hospital and was told I have post traumatic stress and a psychiatrist is getting me a medication prescription soon to deal with my meltdowns and panic attacks. I find it kind of offense to say a character with the same struggles as me is "bad representation" when I've never felt so represented before

    • @blandon93
      @blandon93 Рік тому

      bro he cannot die, gem heals him and creates protection aura. relating to Gary Stu is stupid.

    • @diminie_chimket
      @diminie_chimket 10 місяців тому +2

      ​@@barf_lord_9399 good job saying his opinion is "offensive" just because you disagree with him lol nothing he said was offensive, he just has a different opinion than you. Don't take things so seriously

  • @Mankey619
    @Mankey619 Рік тому +23

    Steven Universe is ten years old now. When people on the internet think of him being a wimp is misunderstanding his character. This is the kid who shattered Jasper, and not to mention trying to shatter White Diamond.

    • @DrawciaGleam02
      @DrawciaGleam02 Рік тому +2

      I remember when those episodes aired and people were fussing about Steven's character being ruined due to those instances.

  • @campcampcamp
    @campcampcamp Рік тому +19

    No matter people's stance on SU, it can at least get the honour of having been one of the shows that Fujimoto (Chainsaw Man's author) watched

  • @jadamiller7485
    @jadamiller7485 Рік тому +9

    The diamonds make sort of sense when you realize that the diamonds are also representative of toxic family, and steven basically went low contact.
    They are space dictators though. But you COULD possibly think that that could represent how a household could run like a dictatorship...
    Still, they built the staked to high for that.

  • @TheBoardGamer
    @TheBoardGamer Рік тому +7

    The thing that gets me most about people complaining about the show, they say that Steven forgives the Diamonds but he literally doesn't. How does anyone get that from the show? Because they weren't punished? There's literally nothing he can do about it, they are by far the most powerful beings in the universe and it eats him up in Future, plus the punishment is essentially reviving people for the next couple centuries. While it doesn't justify shit, it is quite literally the best possible outcome

  • @cisnt9244
    @cisnt9244 Рік тому +16

    I think people forget about "just a thought" too, where stevonnie panics over the images of all the people Steven had to hurt because there was no other way. He was a kid forced to hurt people, suffered trauma, and went forward trying not to hurt people ever again unless he has to.

    • @cisnt9244
      @cisnt9244 Рік тому +1

      He's a child and the characterization reflects that at every stage of his life.

  • @The_XnXlXzXr
    @The_XnXlXzXr Рік тому +9

    What?! You mean to tell me all those funny pictures I saw on Twitter lied to me and did not take into account the character proper only to make stupid jokes to dunk on a show that's a deader horse than the reputation of the people who made videos shitting on it years ago? Say it ain't so!
    Jokes aside I'm glad someone is finally talking about Steven himself and how he isn't the pacifistic wimp memes make him out to be. Great job mate!

  • @whiteknight8445
    @whiteknight8445 Рік тому +8

    As long as that one meme format keeps getting passed around and reproduced, I feel like the flanderization will never end

  • @RainyStast
    @RainyStast Рік тому +152

    I think the show fell when it decided to go ham on all of the things Pink Diamond has done, but everyone else is "redeemed".
    When other people are around the diamonds it's either completely ignoring them or "slightly peeved". Even in that one episode where Steven almost shatters White, it's when White is completely defenseless and doesn't actually address the negative impact she's had.
    However when people talk about Pink, it's either depressed, running out of the room, or screaming. I wouldn't mind the diamonds having a redemption arc so much if the show didn't chastise Pink so much, and let everyone else off basically scot free.
    Putting the proverbial target on Pink's back when the source of nearly all of the problems in the entire show (the diamonds) just kind of stand in the background has never sat right with me.

    • @newthejsterjacob408
      @newthejsterjacob408 Рік тому +17

      The reason why that is is because most of the characters had a deep love for Pink as well. It hurts a lot more when there are massive flaws in someone you love than with someone you hate. It is clear they all dislike the diamonds and interact with them as little as posssible. In almost all instances when a villian is redeemed the gems work with them but with their guard up and at an arms distance in order to keep them in check and so they don't have to interact witt them, or in comedic cases are very annoyed with them

    • @harrybechtle4333
      @harrybechtle4333 Рік тому +9

      So basically rose wasn’t a person but an idol to be discarded

    • @joyc.e.7511
      @joyc.e.7511 Рік тому +29

      THANK YOU. It's not even the characters hating Pink that gets to me (we meet many characters directly wronged by her, they are within their rights to) it's the FANDOM. Some people will say with their whole chest that Pink was pure evil and is responsible for all the problems the character's face. Even though she's one of the better written characters in my opinion, with how her character development was presented in reverse order. We go from seeing the best of her as Rose Quartz to the worst of her as an immature Pink Diamond. She made some god awful mistakes but she also did incredible things. Fans like to blame her for everything but with out her there would be no humans left on Earth in the first place??? We see that she was a good person, learned to be good, and showed remorse for her actions, but people still think she's the worst of the worst, despite knowing that literal genocidal space dictators raised her💀I think she turned out alright.

    • @MisPinkButterfly
      @MisPinkButterfly Рік тому +10

      ​@@joyc.e.7511 Oh my god, thank you. For some reason a lot of people forget about how Pink was treated even before and after she was given the Earth. The diamonds treated her like a child more than a diamond. She was never taken seriously but even through all of it, she changed! Even before the Earth, she must have loved creatures but learned to love life more after experiencing it herself. She learned what it meant to be human.
      While some of her actions may have been a bit extreme. Given her circumstances, what was she supposed to do? She flawed. She made mistakes. She became human. She's actually really well written then most people think. Finally someone agrees!

    • @HappyHyperHuggieNini
      @HappyHyperHuggieNini Рік тому +7

      I just wish they'd stop making us forget that she grew as a person/gem.

  • @felipequaresma4215
    @felipequaresma4215 Рік тому +78

    i think this is happening cause a lot of shows started doing the thing with redemption, tied with the bad thing that was the ''redemption'' of the diamonds, this ended up taiting the memory of every person.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 Рік тому +13

      Agreed. Usually by making the redeemed character a main antagonist who was either family or a romantic interest. Off the top of my head, She-Ra, Star Wars and Rise of the TMNT come to mind.

    • @dustyrose192
      @dustyrose192 Рік тому +19

      There needs to be a message that not every person can be redeemed. I think perhaps blue could have but yellow would have worked very hard for it (with blues help.) White should not have been redeemed

    • @greenamber9827
      @greenamber9827 Рік тому +6

      The diamonds being redeemed is a fan interpretion, it's not canon.

  • @purplehaze2358
    @purplehaze2358 Рік тому +87

    This video’s energy was entirely like, “It’s a bad show guys, but it’s not _that_ bad”.

    • @garibaldibritann1240
      @garibaldibritann1240 Рік тому +5

      @@sirpheredin1379 How? Even you disagree with Cartoonshi but when he explained something positive in any media he had enjoyed it doesn't felt forced or downright disingeneous
      Even a good or bad media we should acknowledge its goodness and flaws

  • @garrettcooper58
    @garrettcooper58 Рік тому +17

    A good idea for a video would be mystery incorporated, I think a lot of people would watch it

  • @AizakkuAnalysis
    @AizakkuAnalysis Рік тому +10

    I've literally been going through a Steven Universe rewatch. Now this gets uploaded 😂

  • @10Bendog
    @10Bendog Рік тому +86

    Steven Universe is probably the show that I’ve felt most betrayed by. I was so invested in it when it came out. I was a diehard fan of it. But then the last season, excluding the wedding, but double including the finale and the Diamonds’ redemption, massively disappointed me that after the movie I never wanted to touch that franchise ever again. It was like every good memory I had with it got absolutely soiled by that ending.
    I never outwardly went to hate on the show, but when ppl would clown on it, I’d often join.
    Now tho… Now the hate for Steven Universe is starting to become so prevalent, and exaggerated, that I’ve started to feel bad for it. Especially when the hate comes from biggots who target its progressiveness instead of its shoddy writing.
    I’ll never forgive the awful ending. I don’t think I’ll ever have the interest to watch Future either. But I’ll at least try to look back at the first 3 seasons and Garnet’s wedding for what they were and appreciate them on their own.

    • @WC3fanatic997
      @WC3fanatic997 Рік тому

      I've literally never heard anyone dog on it for it's "Progressiveness". In fact all the "Bigots" I run with (because you people overused that word to hell and back and it means nothing now since it basically encompasses 80% of the population at this point) have said nill about it past the fact they thought it was trite garbage that seemed forced. *_Even I thought that_* back before I was forced to cut off ties with former "Non-Bigot" friends who loved this show.
      In fact I would say almost all of the hate comes from the very people who made this show their entire lives for about 5 years. This tends to be an extremely prevalent theme with a lot of these kind of Tumblr Bean-Mouth shows; they start off like a freight train with a fantastic premise, a truck-load of unique plot points and interesting characters with fascinating interactions with each other, it goes for a couple seasons while building up a rabid fanbase that eats, sleeps and breaths the show, something big happens behind the scenes, things take a dramatic change, the show starts looking like dogshit because the new people in charge know about as much about plot structure and characterization as a ham sandwich and only want to try and push their idea of what the show should be (or worse, an agenda of some sort, which has been happening a lot lately), and then all the people who loved it turn on it with that same rabid fervor.
      They also, almost overwhelmingly so, say the same things you did; the series is ruined after a very specific point (there is always a specific one, despite the fact there's like a thousand other reasons), retrospection of everything that came before is ruined (memories, experiences, etc.), that they cant enjoy even the good parts of the show, all that stuff.
      It happened to SVTFOE too. You cant go anywhere about it without seeing people fighting over what they think the shows most egregious crime is (Except the Subreddit obviously, though even that isn't completely immune to it). Dont bother trying to look up anything on UA-cam about it or you'll get a thousand and one comments all saying "Yikes" about _something,_ completely without any attempt at understanding the nuance or greater scope and concept behind a scene or plot.
      Whereas everyone outside the rabid parts of the fandom just partakes in the copious amount of Hekapoo dumptruck art. They dont care about whether it's bad or not.

    • @newthejsterjacob408
      @newthejsterjacob408 Рік тому +5

      For me I think it still stayed true to the characters presented and worked est with the few episodes they were given after they got cancelled. Also that Future is a great tie up on the series and specifically Steven as a character but of course I can't force you to watch it or anything. Also Star vs betrayed me a lot more lol

    • @user-ky8cx2tj7q
      @user-ky8cx2tj7q Рік тому

      Ya even though I felt so let down by how the show finished, those first 2-3 seasons still hold a special place in my heart. It only takes re-watching one of those old episodes (and appreciating the background art and music and character writing and world building) for me to remember why I once loved the show so much

  • @ajstudios9210
    @ajstudios9210 Рік тому +59

    You hit the nail on the head. He never forgave the diamonds. He showed them mercy. There is a big difference. He never forgave them. He just chose not to kill them.

  • @The_Admiral_Angel
    @The_Admiral_Angel Рік тому +5

    I was a *huge* follower of Steven Universe back then. My first introduction of the series was a clip from Rose's Scabbard. That clip alone got me hooked, and I started following the show since then all the way up to the finale.
    Years went by, and my love for SU kinda died down a little. I still liked it just fine, but after rewatching the entire series plus the movie and Future mini-series, I started noticing the descend in the writing.
    Which was funny, because Steven Universe in the first 3 seasons was at its peak when other cartoons like Adventure Time and Regular Show started to slowly decline in quality around that time. Only for tables to be turned later on.
    Steven Universe definitely had so much potential to become a beloved modern CN classic, but between the town fillers, rushed plotlines, questionable character decisions, and the whole Steven Bomb fiasco in later seasons, it's a wonder how I didn't notice the problems until after the finale.

  • @bubopeli
    @bubopeli Рік тому +9

    Great video! The way I see it, I feel like the ending of the show was a tricky situation with it getting cancelled and rushed at the end. It was likely a choice between changing the original intended ending, or rushing it. So they chose to rush it, likely to attempt to keep with their theme.
    Now personally, I've never viewed "forgiveness" as a theme of the show. I've always seen it as "everyone has the capacity to be a better person," which doesn't mean people *have* to forgive them. Someone can start being better and you never have to forgive them for what they've done in the past, and that's okay.
    Obviously though, there's a lot that can be said about where to draw the line, ie genocidal monsters *prooobably* shouldn't be allowed to keep being part of society lol, but I don't think it would be very in line with the show's other themes of peace and love to have Steven kill the diamonds, just sayin. (Also this is aside from the point, but I do wanna just point out that the diamonds are advanced beings with unstoppable technology, I think if I managed to get one of them to think about peace and love after being tyrants for millions of years I'd probably also just let them start being good, better than getting instantly obliterated for trying to stop them and letting them continue to murder everyone and everything in their sight forever 🤔.) You can hate the show, I know I'm personally not a fan of the diamond redemption and I wish it went differently (I wish they had spent less time on filler and more time on plot so maybe we could have had a better paced diamond arc), but at the end of the day it did potentially make a lot of people, primarily kids, kinder and more thoughtful, regardless of how ~problematically~ it was handled. I started watching it as an edgy teen and it genuinely did help me become kind and care about other people. It did NOT teach me to mindlessly forgive everyone.

  • @CoolPlayersVic
    @CoolPlayersVic Рік тому +28

    Thank you for saying this! I'm tired of people thinking Steven would try to forgive Jack Horner when he more likely would just throw hands

  • @mimibreyes3532
    @mimibreyes3532 Рік тому +4

    Its sad that he doesnt forgive his own mom, given that she really changed and grew from her early diamond days, being a totally different person:(

  • @jolaum9216
    @jolaum9216 Рік тому +27

    I honestly think maybe Blue and Yellow could have been redeemed (not forgived, redeemed) but white it's simply impossible to overlook, her change of heart because of a simple phrase was just too much, maybe would have been better if they bubbled her and let Blue and Yellow (and steven) dismantle the empire, with Blue and Yellow dealing with the consequences of their actions in the process

    • @owenfautley
      @owenfautley Рік тому

      But then how would they get her essence to cure the corrupted gems?

    • @jolaum9216
      @jolaum9216 Рік тому +1

      @@owenfautley They must have some kind of stock of diamond's essence, it was a vital resource for the empire after all

  • @KayGee_yt
    @KayGee_yt Рік тому +10

    No one throws the diamonds a picnic, sure, but no one is every on-screen upset with them either. The MOST we get is awkward discomfort. How do you go from "were fighting a war against these horrible dictators" to "oh boy isn't this odd" without a great deal of forgiveness/letting stuff go?
    Even if you want to argue they now have complicated feelings about the diamonds - they shouldn't. The diamonds did too much to have earned awkward conversation

  • @kyperactive
    @kyperactive Рік тому +72

    RIP Cartoonshi's social medias after this one 🗿

    • @entityontheinternet
      @entityontheinternet Рік тому +37

      He is gonna be able to fill an entire Dictionary with all the Buzz Words that People will call him

    • @limeyell0w945
      @limeyell0w945 Рік тому +23

      at least he'll be safe thanks to surfshark vpn

    • @entityontheinternet
      @entityontheinternet Рік тому +6

      @@limeyell0w945 You should become a UA-camr

    • @limeyell0w945
      @limeyell0w945 Рік тому +9

      ​@@entityontheinternet :D

    • @anxurious4307
      @anxurious4307 Рік тому +2

      ​@Negative Luigi what do you mean by that?

  • @jomaq9233
    @jomaq9233 Рік тому +5

    Don’t even get me started on the Uncle Grandpa stans who hate the trend of children’s animation “focusing too much on unneccesarily complicated lore” instead of something that’s “just simple and fun”

  • @andieallison6792
    @andieallison6792 Рік тому +4

    I know people say that the Diamonds weren't redeemed, and while the show doesn't really excuse what they've done or say that they've been forgiven or anything....
    But like, the Diamonds have never had to pay for what they've done. There was never any sort of karma or retribution for destroying planets and committing genocide against certain Gems.
    Bismuth wanted to destroy the Diamonds to end their tyranny and she ends up bubbled. The Ruby who tried to kill Steven was flung out into space. The Diamonds.... get an annoyed face from Steven and that's it.
    "The Diamonds weren't forgiven by Steven because he has an annoyed expression whenever he's around them!"
    Yeah that doesn't carry any sort of weight and there's no proportion response to their actions compared to someone like, IDK, Kevin, Bismuth, Eyeball or Pink Diamond.

  • @SomeGaymerNerd
    @SomeGaymerNerd Рік тому +7

    the fact I clicked a commentary video about SU with "not a wimp" in the thumbnail because it _wasn't negative_ (there are far, FAR too many negative commentaries about this show)- I haven't clicked on a SU commentary faster /pos
    also, Steven would suffer from C-PTSD specifically, considering all of his trauma happened as a child. as someone who has c-ptsd, I can understand Steven's mindset in future (mainly because I was around the same age and feeling similar things). although similar, there are some minute differences between ptsd and c-ptsd
    EDIT: grammar

  • @melofelo4484
    @melofelo4484 Рік тому +6

    Steven never forgave or redeemed the diamonds. He gave them a chance to change and right their wrongs, and they took it. They aren’t owed forgiveness, they’re choosing to take a path that rights what they’ve done. That’s what he’s done with every conflict. Some characters took the chance and came out better for it (like peridot) and some didn’t (like eyeball). And some are still figuring it out (like Jasper). But the diamonds are on a PATH to be better.

  • @chasgalaxy6721
    @chasgalaxy6721 Рік тому +80

    For me the biggest issue when it came to forgiving enemies wasn't Steven (because lord knows he could hold a grudge) but more of the Gems, like when it comes to the Diamonds becoming good guys, although they never outright forgive them, there's not a single scene where anyone shares scepticism on their sudden change of hearts, but the worst offence was with Bluebird, the whole scenario around that episode had me thinking the Gems were being brainwashed or suffering from some sort of brain dead virus.
    Despite my own issues with this show, I do agree that the insinuation that Steven was a complete wimp throughout the show has been an underlying problem in the fandom

    • @DefyReality-ll2cg
      @DefyReality-ll2cg Рік тому +3

      Bluebird felt like such a waste of an episode.

    • @SM-cv8sv
      @SM-cv8sv Рік тому +8

      The Gem have always been poorly thought out personality wise. Ever notice how when ever Connie is on the scene, the gems drop about 20 iq points in order for her to shine.
      They become less people and more a loose collection of tropes as the show goes on.

  • @azulimarie2485
    @azulimarie2485 Рік тому +6

    I need to rant here, i dont think ALL of the diamonds were irredeemable. I mean the way they introduced blue i actually thought oh shes gonna be the voice of reason to the other diamonds, it'll be cool to see it progress. Well i WAS right, steven did use blue to get through to yellow and then white but it felt like there was no establishment. All the development seemed rushed and not thought through very well. On top of that, the decision to recind shatterings permanence removed what would have been a really interesting storyline and honestly more accurate depiction on what happens when you're processing trauma. Because you do lash out at people and while some can forgive you and move on, others are permanently scarred and dont want anything to do with you anymore

  • @MunTheOddity
    @MunTheOddity Рік тому +11

    I'm also guessing what contributes to this high degree of flanderization and scrutiny towards Steven's characters is the fact that the show is practically locked onto his perspective all throughout. His character writing is especially under some pressure as he is the eyes the show is largely played through. And very rarely throughout its tenure, often to its detriment, would the show deviate from his perspective. Often, we were unable to explore certain things unless Steven was there to give his two cents, which might've indirectly led some people to resent his presence. This combined with some of the show's most egregious moments happening from Steven's perspective and with Steven's initial rationale both likely contributes to the rain of flanderization and relatively harsh stances towards his character.
    Of course, this is only one factor that likely contributes to the internet's backlash towards Steven, among others.

  • @bullethail3875
    @bullethail3875 Рік тому +6

    I hadn't seen the Jack Horner one yet lol but yeah, Jack Horner would absolutely have been the direct antithesis of Steven's worldview in the later half of the show.

  • @marmalade8915
    @marmalade8915 Рік тому +44

    The redemption of the diamonds is not about forgiving their evil deeds, it's about allowing them to change, making them into better people

    • @audreyharris7643
      @audreyharris7643 Рік тому +10

      I've heard this before if this is true then it's a huge misunderstanding then

    • @mxochii5159
      @mxochii5159 Рік тому +1

      Which is bullshit because they clearly deserved death

    • @owenfautley
      @owenfautley Рік тому +1

      ​@audreyharris7643 Well of course since if Steven did not rationalise with them many gems would still be corrupted and shattered. He needed to placate them to get them to help.

    • @ntinosaggelopoulos6718
      @ntinosaggelopoulos6718 21 день тому

      They are rotten beings who are ready to kill someone for not being perfect in their standards so many other planets faced this injustice and soon they received the extinction from the diamond authority they are dangerous

  • @Comfyest
    @Comfyest Рік тому +2

    Really liked the video, it's refreshing to see people come to their senses about the show and realize that while it was flawed, it's not a show you can directly dissect!
    That said, I did enjoy Future the most, both for the insight it gave to how Steven feels about the Diamonds as well as reminding us that Steven is in fact part human and that he needs to deal with his human issues as well as the sorted gem issues he's dealt with previously.
    While the season doesn't really show a good depiction of PTSD (despite that being the clear direct intention), it does show a lot of good points for general mental illness (and as a psych major, you technically *COULD* diagnose Steven... just not with PTSD... but that's a different comment) and it's treatment as well as the benefits of a support network and mental health practices!
    I don't think people realize how chaotic and erratic someone who's out of control and disorganized can be, and I would say the chaos and pressure of disorganization and lack of control is well represented in the season... but yeah, a little too simplified for PTSD...
    As an aside:
    I've always felt like the Diamonds were never "redeemed"...
    From them trying to be a part of Steven's life and getting rejected every time, to Steven always feeling awkward around them, it always felt like they were being put on the side very clearly.
    The show needed WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more time to flesh the Diamonds out into actual characters (especially white, our little giant cardboard cuttout of a gem...) and have everyone realize "these fuckers really don't deserve to be made happy after all they did, but the cast can't exactly just shatter them because that would be exactly what a Diamond would do..." and then maybe have a "wtf do we do with these giant mfs" arc where the diamonds realize the error of their ways on their own unique perspective and maybe just fuck off into remote regions of space to not hurt anyone else... or even decide they don't deserve to be a part of this society anymore turning into their gem forms voluntarity and becoming a part of the healing fountain at the end of S5 to be able to contribute to the healing of gems indefinitely! They could've even been called upon in the Future series by Steven visiting them for advice and reforming to talk to him about the self reflection they've been having while observing everyone that goes to the fountain or something...
    tl;dr: the Diamonds deserved better as characters and the fix would've been more time for characterization.