Modern Players vs. Old Fighting Games and Vice Versa
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- streamed Mar. 28, 2024
look forward to seeing this video again at least a dozen more times in the next decade.
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#FGC #Sajam
Sajam has the infinite content glitch on lock because the argument keeps coming back with slightly different phrasing
This is the "why doesn't Batman just kill criminals" debate-loop of fighting games.
@@leithaziz2716 Batman is literally the Akuma of fighting games; if he’s not stupidly OD, then something *has* to be wrong!
"Nothing under the sun is new"
Literally thought this was a 4 year old video
Bold claim that the phrasing has even changed a little bit
New game vs old game 3: fate of two eras
Ultimate New Game vs. Old Game 3
New Game vs Old Game 2: Millenials Fighting 2001
♪ I'm gonna take you for riiiide ♪
new game vs old game: infinite
because we will never stop going back to this fucking topic ad infinitum
Streetekkenvsdrowning 13: fate of then ew generation old champion tournament.
"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in the cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould.
I grew up during the arcade era and played all the old games. I could never have been a top player in that era because I didn't live in NYC, Norcal, Socal, or Japan. I didn't know about ROM infinites, Yun Genei Jin combos, or CVS2 roll cancels, until I downloaded some crusty footage from SRK that took 4 hours to download, because there were no people in my area that could do that stuff. There's probably some kid in the middle of the corn fields of Indiana that could've been an MvC2 or 3S god that never had the chance by virtue of being born in the wrong place.
Somewhat tragic
that quote is so real
As a dude from the Midwest there's definitely some secret gods who just don't do tourney
Back in my day Sajam videos were just Assassin's Creed 3 guides. You youngsters don't get it
Holy shit the treassure trove you just gave me, the nostalgia
can't wait to watch this video again when the next new game comes out
I hope Sajam literally just reuploads this exact video under a new title in 5-6 years but he just mirrors it so we don’t exactly notice right away
Project L is absolutely gonna trigger the same discussion despite it being a completely new game.
Reusable content, very ecological
@@muovikalloa true conservationist
This reminds me of the "what if Jordan played in this era or what if Lebron played in the old era" discourse in basketball.
Did you know basketball started off professionally as a short person sport?(average height sport) I use short in comparison to the 6 feet and above giants we have in basketball over the last few decades.
@@DANCERcow I didn't but it's definitely not hard to believe you since i think the average height has increased through the years yeah.
@sunnyblack3359 nope. It was believed at the time, that tall people could not handle the specific skillset required of basketball. I kid you not.
George Mikan changed all of that. Lakers better give him a statue, 5 chips won for that team. Completely revolutionized the meta of basketball as we know it.
@@Yeet-ing true because he wanted a three point line so shorter players can score, but they also made the 3-second rule because he just stays under the basket not letting anyone score LMAO
I always love that one too like Jordan wasn’t one of lebrons hero’s, would Lebron even be the same player if Jordan existed in his time? He wouldn’t have Jordan’s influence to look back at
the funniest part of that Ryan Hart interview is he knows how the FGC used to be and doesn't bring it up. Easy access to info and reliable online does wonders for everyone compared to being lucky enough to be near the right arcades or flying out to Japan for real practice
Ryan talking about something different. How many of these new top players are going to stick around if they had to go through the same kind of grind that ogs went through. It's a night and day difference compared to today.
Look at Wolfkrone and then Smug. 1 guy made alot of noise 15 years ago, not a peep from them now over 2 different games. The other has been making noise in 3 consecutive SFs.
I think he is more pointing out having a pure foundational skillset that traverses multiple vs be carried by the current games system. At least that's what I think he trying to say, but that's my guess on it. CT did not give any push back, and just became an echo chamber. A case of bad journalism so we don't get the full scope of what Ryan wanted to express.
This. It feels like Ryan Hart is salty because he's not as relevant as his old days where he can won EVO with just against 30 players lol. No wonder he keeps dunking on new games and new players.
I feel like "you couldn't beat me in the game I grinded at for the past decade+" isn't the flex people think it is.
It's the year 2064, Sajam has long since retired from being a commentator because he can't stand straight to commentate in the Capcom Cup for Street Fighter 20: Legends of Luke. He wakes up one morning, and pets Boots and Teo before slowly hobbling out of bed. He gets a twitter notification, now re-rebranded as Super X. He doesn't get many of those anymore. He opens up the app and pulls up the post. Once again, it's people complaining about how Street Fighter 19 was "The pinnacle of fighting games, with its innovative sucker punch mechanics." in comparison to the new Street Fighter with it's "...Scrubby Exodia Meter that doesn't allow for honest footsies.". He sighs, and then pulls up his twitch channel to go live once again:
"Hey guys we're gonna talk about how Old Game Good, New Game Bad."
I'm more scared of the 40 years old pets he has in that universe lmao
Lol good one xD
@@SyRose901Cats are basically turtles without shells.
@@SyRose901 We've been experimenting on making mice immortal lately, and who do you think is going to be eating those mice eventually?
As soon as I saw this interview making the rounds I knew that Sajam was gonna feast
iDom is a perfect example of this. He plays UMvC3 at a very high level, and does really well. He could probably do better if he wanted to main-game it, but he does just fine and he's a pretty young guy.
He’s quite good at Strive too IIRC
@@lilacrain3283 He's definitely good at strive. He's just talented, period. But I think the narrative was described as "Modern FGC players couldn't do old games cause their harder", and he disapproves that very notion. Competitive players will just do whatever is required, new or old, it doesn't matter.
Idom has been playing umvc3 since it came out...he was an online monster forever then moved on to sf5 where he became the idom you know
Zoomers simply being uninterested in your boomer game of choice is the only thing saving you from hitbox-wielding 15 year olds.
That is the realest thing I’ve read in a minute
Legitimately so true. Look at NES Tetris. When it comes to speed and reactions, it's hard to beat young players.
Tetris did not get this fate and it shows, every couple of years some new insane tech is found by a teenager who picked up the game like 6 months ago and just grinded
Oldheads when Justice Girl gets her mom to take her to Frosty Faustings:
wrong. you new age dummies wouldn’t survive in old school fighting games. 🤡
The real difficulty of any competitive game is the competition
Favorite comment
This sentance says more than the garbage paragraph long comment I almost posted lol
thats a nice way to phrase it
I think Sajam is on point with this, as usual. I would like to add an additional point. By decreasing the execution barrier, particularly for core aspects of gameplay, you've made it made it much harder to see seperation among top pros. People would tease J.Wong about his basic combos, but he was still demonstrating execution in older games that would be considered pretty technical by today's standards.
So I fully agree that if we had a global MIB mind wipe and sat down to play an old game with good netcode that we'd be figuring out tech so much faster than in arcades. Likewise, top pros wouldn't be able to keep various techniques secret for more than 1 tournament. However, I believe the execution challenges would lead to some clear differentation among pros. I put forward SSBM as evidence here. Despite the continued interest and solid netplay, there's a clear difference between the top 4-5 pros and the rest of the field.
The latter point about melee is true, but I don't believe that it really supports the overall argument. Melee's top echelon are clearly better than the field, but for the most part their execution is not appreciably better than the rest. With the exception of Cody (whose execution is essentially unmatched), the absolute best players in melee are not generally also the most technical players. Instead the main separation is in the quality of their neutral.
@@theleeryone its nuanced. while generally, top 10.players do have noticably better tech-skill than lower level players. There are some lower players who display equivalent tech.
the more accurate thing to say, is within ranks, you see a variety of skillsets. (and the average skill in both categories goes up as you rise ranks.)
some spec into tech more than neutral and vice versa. where in modern games "spec-ing into tech" isnt a thing. everyone can do everything just fine. which imo is pretty lame
@@theleeryone
I would disagree that Cody is only pro where we see an execution gap. Zain, JMook, and Moky all have noticeably better execution than the tier 2 pros, particularly with their consistency. Moky himself has said that improving on his consistency was a major breakthrough point on becoming a legitimate tournament threat. You can see instances of the Tier 2 pros demonstrating technical execution that equals or excels the pros at times, Wizzy comes to mind, but they're also more likely to flub a critical execution and cost themselves the match.
Of course, the top pros also tend to be superior in their ability to play neutral and condition their opponent, but these features are universal in all fighting games. Why don't we see a consistent top 4 or 5 in SF6, Tk8, or GGS? Every fighting game has players who were technical gods but never really did much in tournaments so I'm definitely not saying fighting games are execution tests. However, if we're trying to figure out why we see a lot more stability in tournament placings in SSBM than in any modern fighting game, I don't think neutral is the answer.
@@SuperLemonfishyeah I don’t like how everything is easy it makes it boring because there isn’t much to learn and not a wide variety of different types of players. It’s why I don’t like rivals of aether as much as melee. They made everything too easy so everyone plays similar to each other.
There is always going to be players that play differently because people naturally have different talents it’s just depending on the game those talents will be expressed in limited ways.
i dunno who dug out that deep cut for the thumbnail but whoever it was I WANT A TWO BY FOUR
09ers were once new players, I know I am one.
I started in 2015 with NRS games, but have since expanded my horizon and played many other games, old and new.
And SF4 was criticized by old schoolers because of the ultras. The thing is that the whole phenomenon of the SF revival shaped the community dynamics in a way that the criticism was balanced by the general positive feel about the return of SF. This franchise was dead and buried for almost 10 years (about real brand new games and not milking of old games), the community was starving so there was no place to be really harsh.
Now after SF5, when the franchise properly proved to be viable again and settled down in modern gaming scene, esports started, the community started eating better, only then the situation motivated the fans to become harsher in criticism and picky... and that has only been growing. It's very natural. The community is no longer in critical starvation like in the 00s. So anyways it's easy to forget about those details in 00s fg history and then act retroactively like SF4 ("the last real SF") was universally acclaimed and treated like a masterpiece. The same for SF3 actually... the criticisms werent solely limited to the new and strange roster (even if it was a prevalent aspect of the criticism).
@@carlosaugusto9821 hey all I want is some balance patches and costumes, I'm not asking for much. I get why they have a battle pass but it feels they are focusing too much on that. Also season 1 was literally 3 characters from sf5 and Akuma. And yes I'm counting Aki as FENG with breasts
I didn't start until 11 these people trip.
This comment is extremely funny to me because I see you everywhere on UA-cam swearing SF6 is the death of fighting games and that new players are a disease to the fgc.
You decide to switch teams?
Moooom! Dad won't say GG's 'cuz he's salty that I hit him with the Magneto infinite!
I need the "They said I couldn't win a tournament with Makoto" video 😂😂
damn TWO "modern game vs old game" videos in one month?
let's go discoooooooooourse
It's been brewing. The FGC had been getting too much positive news for too long and you know how much these mfers love to complain.
"I miss it when information was scarce and it was harder to find players and gatekeeping was normalized and I was the one gatekeeping."
This discussion exudes "I'm tired boss" energy
The jujutsu sorcerers of eld vs. the jujutsu sorcerers of today
ah yes true because the jjk sorcerers of old also has irrational pettiness towards young people so this brainrot reference checks out.
The standard input shortcuts have also fundamentally changed the way we interact with fighting games. It used to be stick or die, now there are strong arguments for pad/leverless advantages.
Grew up in the arcades
This is the best time for Fighting Games ever
Ever
The speed running example was cool, because I'm experiencing the young v new thing in Ocarina right now with a very young player half our age picking up and building on the stuff that took me 2 years to learn. and getting it in a week. Incredible stuff.
Nothing makes me feel older than reliving an argument i heard when I first started playing over a decade ago
These modern innovations in chess are really tarnishing legacy skill, there's so many new good chess players nowadays because they're making the game too easy so anybody can win.
"Back in my day, you had to castle by hand every time, only true pros could survive in that age smh"
No, it's not you fucking dingus. Why are you speaking so confidently out your ass?
Also another thing about making things easier and newer games is the fact that if something becomes easier in the next game is because the developers WANT you to do it, most of the time the things that are hard were NOT intended. Even if you look at something like the smash series you can see how each game the immediately tackle things they didn't like that players did, and it's the Indie platform fighters that try to put it back because they like it
Every time this discussion reappears I always just wonder when do people get tired of saying "old hard hard good" and acknowledge that modern fighting games feel great to play and appeal to wider audiences, thus bringing in more active players and more money which is good for everyone
i feel like UNI2 or skullgirls is the perfect battleground for this arguement
My 2 favorite games
And the correct answer to that is. Uh. I mean the same 5 people keep making it to top 8 of big events, but also there’s always one or two new faces up there, and even some guy making meme edits of his matches had a 2:8 matchup against SonicFox, in a long play session. These asswhoopings rated E for everyone, for all ages
No! You're missing the point, I'm upset that someone beat me and i want to be mad forever.
Being an SSBU washup, you have no idea how liberating it is to hear that input buffers just make games feel better. I felt like I was crazy hearing Melee people talk about how they inherently make games less responsive
Honestly KOFXV is probably the game with the most legacy skill on the market (up there with UNI2) and a 27 year old dude won the SNK world championship, beating the KOF GOAT Xiaohai. Now 27 isn't that young, but he was 11 years old when sf4 came out. I'd call that a modern player lol
2008 is not modern era lmao
@@Julian-um2om well yeah, but a dude who was 11 in 2008 is a modern player. That means he's an adult in 2015-2016, so definitely not an arcade goer in 2002, at least, not a serious one
‘We gotta do our due diligence, we gotta talk about the thing’😂
Thing about buffers too is that they make the games easier to design. In your SF4 example a -3 move is "punishable" but sort of, if the developers want to make something truly punishable by players consistently they need to make it more negative. Modern games with buffers means if they want move X to be punished by Y moves, they just set the numbers equal and it works. There's less nuance in frame data but you can add it back in something else that might be more tangible or interesting for the players. Maybe make a punish spacing dependent so even with the buffer players have to react to the spacing with their appropriate reversal button. Especially with how more often games are balanced now, this consistency in frame data makes more sense.
I'm an old player who can do the kara demons and max mode combos and everything and I honestly think they'd be better with an input buffer. screwing up the basics just isn't fun. there's always going to be plenty of difficulty near the ceiling.
I am older now and barely play fighting games due to work and life. I like being able to just skip to focusing on fundamental and mechanics
I'm a big Melee guy, and yes the tech skill baseline is higher than in modern smash games, but that doesn't make Melee harder than Ult. You aren't playing against the game, you're playing against the other player. If the tech is easier, then it's easier for both of you, so it's still just as hard to beat the other guy as it would be if the skill floor were higher. I personally prefer Melee to Ult, but that doesn't make it a "better" game, just better for me personally.
If you say "well, you may beat Daigo now, but if you were in his shoes back in the 90's, you would be screwed" is just a way to create this barrier of entry that's physically impossible to cross
No matter how good the new players are and no matter how hard they absolutely twerk all over the old players, they can't go back in time to the first arcades and learn fighting games all over again the old way
It's like what happened in Armored Core 6
You may have beaten Balteus and Ibis, but I did it pre-patch, we're not the same
Lol the AC6 reference. Same with Pantheon of Hallownest in Hollow Knight. You can always claim pre-patch to post-patch. People just want to talk, be heard and be special. You don't always get all three.
the melee example is so funny because OGKid came to mind
Bro that double jump cancel for XX is too real shit is tough
Best breakdown of old games vs new games imo
If 3S came out tomorrow my ign would be Makoto No Ken and I'd spend most of my time learning kara fukiage
Can't wait to see how this video will be for Riot's fighting game.
Also the old games being accessible is the only reason I ever played third strike, nothing would have me finding ways to play it locally (because I wouldn't really bother besides fightcade tbh).
everytime the camera cuts Sajam's hair is in a different place
To add to Sajam's point about how things get built, and new generations rise from it: we can see it real time. Sonicfox, Punk, insert whoever you think (they're just the first two to come to my mind)
It is the dilemma of the apex. If you're so good that your play defines a game or a meta, eventually other players will learn from that, and learn how to beat that. It's what makes it so hard to stay on top. Everyone studies the best, and everyone practices and labs ways to beat it.
It's what allows for a near unending cycle of progression in the overall skill of the playerbase
I grew up loving fighting games in the 90s. But the only people I ever got to play were a handful of friends who'd button mash until they get to frustrated of losing.
I find it very frustrating that I grew up without any kind of FGC because you simply had to be lucky enough to grow up in a place with an actual arcade scene.
I just comment about this at Chris T video and i like are we gonna do this same dance and song for the next 5-10 years or every time new games released? sigh...
It's so silly and a selfdefeating argument because if the game is easier which helps new players, doesn't it also helps the oldheads? It's full on cope
Jiyuna went into this a while back when this discourse was previously happening. He dunked on oldheads wanting their "Legacy Skill" be all they need to keep pace with younger players who are actually grinding the new games out.
"old games are better because you can't beat me in them" is what's happening here.
Thank you for mentioning that one of the BIGGEST factors for young talent to crop up is the sheer interconnectivity of knowledge surrounding EVERY game. Bro my friends thought I was a fucking WIZARD when I hit them with a kara throw from Chun the first time and now some devs practically design characters around it because it's such a widely known mechanic.
We saw something similar with this recently with the "We done with the 90s" trend in basketball. the game it was in the past wasnt. we have access to much better development now a days thats its practically a completely different game
Everybody when this topic comes up, always says you have access to every strategy your characters can do. But you don’t realize at the same time people tell you strategies to beat it too. So sure you get all the strategies your characters can do but it’s less time for that to work with so the game plans instead of lasting months and years of having this thing work it now is like a couple weeks or a couple of months and then it evolves more. (Also depending on how fast a game gets patched to it adds an ever evolving ecosystem that these games live in instead of what feels like an era like vanilla sf4 to usf4)
1:08 As an adult now i defintely prefer the easier skill floor and lower execution ceiling in FG's however do I find it more satisfying as some of the older games mastering hard execution? honestly no but I know that's just my preference/bias (being a SF4 09er).
Good video it's classic boomer take saying that new FG players couldn't play old FGs, you see this in NBA all the time. People saying dumass shit like Giannis, Curry couldn't play in the 80s/90s eras ironically these takes almost always come from former pro similar to discourse happen rn in the FG community.
example of a young gun that shows up and starts destroying everyone is Liberal Terminator in UMVC3
Having to punish with no buffer is literally the reason the Ken meme existed I stg punishing his DPs with no buffer was hell, thank god the buffer exist just to stop pure yolo play.
It always comes down to the indomitable human spirit regardless of age
What these people fail to remember is that at one point, yes they were in fact a new player. 90's arcade enthusiasts, 2000s revival newcomers, 2010s "modern" players, and now the current generation.
They fail to acknowledge that yes at one point they were beginners and scrubs(I hate this word unironically lmao) and wanna act superior to people trying to join the FGC. Every fighting game in their own have their own skill sets and knowledge, and like it or not technology is good enough to make fighting games fluid and more functional unlike before and they gotta learn to handle it and accept that this ain't the 90s/2000s anymore
Yeah the gatekeeping from these old players is nuts when all of us want more people to join the FGC and play fighting games to keep the genre alive. There's no advantage at all of acting elitist / gatekeeping the new players when fighting games already at niche state.
Beginners or low skill players are not the same as scrubs. Scrubs are mainly defined by whether a person uses the full tools available in a game and whether they complain about the tools or not. You can be bad at a game, but doing your best and that's not scrubby. Scrubs will say "X shouldn't be in the game" or "X character is blah blah" and instead of learning how to deal with it they only complain, or maybe they can do the "cheese" tactic themselves but choose not to in a competitive setting. If you're playing to win, but not using the tools available, you're a scrub no matter how good you are. "Scrubbiness" has nothing to do with player skill level, and everything to do with mindset.
(Basing this roughly on David Sirlin's definition of scrubs in his book Playing to Win. He was one of the individuals on the balance teams for SFII and some other Street Fighters.)
@@8thlvlMage ... Please read again
I think if there's ever one downside of modern games - it's that they ARE labbed so quickly, and reach a point of "solved" very quickly.
Yep,
Especially online,
A few years ago the period where a new game released and it was fun goofing around and finding out who was good and not good lasted about a month,
Now it lasts about a week before everything settles
Heian era players are just built different, just look at Sakuna
I hate this line of argument tbh cause look at Monarch in Blazblue my man dunks on damn near everyone in one of the most mechanically dense games, people literally do what the oldheads claim they can’t all the time lmao
But don't you remember that BlazBlue is the "easy baby" game after arcsys lost guilty gear.
Time is just a circle huh.
@@evilded2 lmao man for REAL, I especially love that comparison now that Strive exists (I am a Strive player btw). Reminds me of how every time a new SF comes out the twitterbase says the same type beat over and over
Can we talk about the SF2 VHS tapes the floated across the country?
There should be a new school vs old school tournament. Games like third strike, plus R then sf 6 and strive. And put og pros vs new pros and see who wins naturally, there should be a prep / training period. That would be DOPE!!
They should release a fg that asks for your age. If you’re over 35 you’re classified as an “Oldhead”, buffers are gone and if the game detects your ip address watching UA-cam tutorials for the game you are permanently banned
Being a FGC content creator must be amazing you can recycle the same content every year cause the discource is always the same thing
the industry has evolved and so has the player base. Just look at a hitbox for example. We created a controller that completely changes how charge characters play.
wow this is remarkably similar to the discussion around "We done with the 90's"
In regards to the first statement that "what are the odds that everyone who walked into an arcade back in the day was the best player ever", but honestly, it required a lot more investment, both personally and economically, to continuously stick with a particular game at that time. which means the ones that ended up sticking around long-term are probably, by far, the most passionate people regarding those games that were around. maybe not necessarily 'the best ever', but i think for most people who have such passion to invest themselves, they will also naturally develop their skill in it to the extent their natural talents allow.
this is the same conversation as NBA eras
It feels like old generation expects some random kid from Nebraska or Senegal to walk to their local Rev2 cabinet where they can train against Evo champs. Good rollback allows most of the world to play the same game people from LA or NYC have been playing for decades.
New Game VS Old Game: Millennium Fight 2000
Access to information I think is the best example of how players can learn games easier in this era. And that's not a bad thing. Back in the day, let's take MK1 in the arcades for example. How did you learn moves/fatalities? Word of mouth and trying the random sequences to hopefully figure something out. If the internet was around back then, the level of play would have been much higher, since people could look up how to do x, y and z combos or tech. If I wanted to learn that shit back in the day, I had to grind on my SNES and figure shit out on my own. Nowadays I can look up exactly how to special cancel into supers in SF6, and what is the best combo to get max damage out of that feature, and that's awesome.
Having issues with accessibility for newer players is crazy to me. Sorry I'm not born before the dial-up internet, gramps.
6:59 And it is YOUR goddamn fault, Mr. Sajam! (Thank you)
Big shoutouts to Diaphone and his godtier videos
Little Violin Hands sounds like a great name to compete under.
I just relistened to the original quote, that some theoretical person exists who would never take a game off haitani in sf3, but with the same amount of work would take a game or two in sfv. It's just an imaginary idea... But it, to me, requires thinking that simply by being born later, a person wouldn't put the effort into learning those older games. It doesn't make sense.
The best players of the old era were just as good then as the best of the current era are now. The difference now is access to info, so the mid-level players have better tech now than they did back then
Genuine question. Can't both sides be right? The narratives on either side aren't mutually exclusive...
The youth is better at fighting games now bc the Red40 and Microplastics have smoothed their brains down to a single wrinkle dedicated to fighting games. No need to waste capacity on something like thought or coherent speech
and all this time i thought the top players of sf6, tekken 8 were the same players that were top at sf5, tekken 7 who were the same top players of sf4, ttt2
Modern players will always win because they are young and have lots of time to dedicate and grind. Even in +R, after the netplay patch, you saw tons of really skilled new blood going toe to toe with established legacy players.
No fighting game exists that is to difficult and esoteric for a newcomer with some gumption.
When one thing becomes easier, something else becomes harder. Anti airs are easy? Now jump ins are more difficult. Punishes are easy? It’s harder to space pokes and keep them safe. Generally when people have this superiority complex about games, it’s because they got in on the ground floor when fighting games were incredibly niche, and want to maintain their experience stranglehold in the competition rather than have an even playing field.
New games are just designed with intentionality in mind. If a player intends to do something, developers are removing the barriers to execute that intention. This should be the goal for any game. Imagine playing a game of chess, and your move not counting because you didn’t angle your peice correctly within a square.
I think that's my biggest frustration with fighting games is the amount of barriers there are for simply making a decision during a match. I can stand losing a match because I got outplayed-what I can't stand is losing a match because my DP/Super didn't come out for some arbitrary reason like I didn't input it right or I missed the cancel window. When I play a shooter and I want to try and shoot someone, I just point and shoot. When I want to move a piece on a chess board, I just move the piece on the chess board. You don't practice 12 hours of moving a single chess piece on a chess board like you practice 12 hours of getting used to certain motions or moves in a fighting game.
Subjective value of skills also plays a big role in how people view that. Guaranteed that many people would love watching people get really good at angling the pieces consistently and would be hyped whenever someone fumbles in a big match.
Though I do agree with you that I prefer my competitive games to have intentionally in mind and gets to the part of fighting games I enjoy faster
fighting games arent a turn based RPG
@@Bruh-bi6yi neither are shooters or MOBAs but making simple decisions in those games is a lot more straightforward than most fighting games
@@Doople Yeah that's why you almost always hear old game players talking about what is essentially just the execution barrier of fighting games as being all difficulty, because to them, the difference between a good player and a bad player is that one can control their character and the other can't. Same thing for outbursts about "easy inputs" and such. It's not about combo routing, mental stack, spacing, knowledge, footsies, timing, pressure, defense, etc., it's just execution. And yeah execution was harder in old games, but it also meant it took so much longer to get to the actual fighting game.
Its wild to hear "such-and-such player would get smoked in an old game by player-who-played-it-at-the-time-it-was-current" like yeah a lot of people coming up in the FGC now were like -10 years old when SF2 came out. no surprise they havent grinded out these ancient ass games.
It's weird feeling yourself become the boomer, but also learning to move around and do shit in +R is the best feeling in the world who cares
Damn sajam is right they really did make it easy to jump in.
Leave me alone...
I’ve been playing for over thirty years, you either adapt or you die. Doesn’t matter the game, adapt or die.
Moste cooking with the thumbnail yet again
Inputs are easier in moder games.
Accessing knowledge is easier with modern games.
Training is easier in modern games.
Having fun is easier with modern games.
Elitism is harder in modern games.
Being the best is way, way harder with modern games.
If you want a game with harder execution and believe there is a market for it, then make it and swim in the profits. I'm so sick of seeing people complain about the creations of others and how it wasn't made for them specifically. Why demand something from others you won't do for yourself? Should someone else make the investment and take all of the risk for you? Pretty damn narcissistic.
The best possible outcome is that some kid gets fired up cuz of the trash talk and finds out their favorite game came out 15 years ago
you play old game because you think it is better than new game
I play old game because I cannot afford new game
we play the same game 🤝
old game good. new game good. game fun :)
also im past the point in my life where i care about getting good and winning. too many years wasted on dota. when you stop caring about ranks, games are a lot more fun
Old heads have become the vocal minority they were complaining about when 09'ers was a term that still held 'relevancy'.
I think all of this discourse is missing a critical point in accessibility which is that ever since GranBlue introduced a "Punish!" display games have gotten way less stressful to learn. You never have to worry about whether you Actually punished something, and you can learn much more effectively just by playing. I'm glad basically every release since has copied them, it's so obviously a good idea with no downsides.
Us old heads poke the bear on purpose. Anything to get someone new to play +r
MELEE MENTIONED!!!
there is a 15 year old who is wicked high rank, like top 10 in dota. he destroys pros in pubs, uses the name butterfly (formerly satanic)
LEAVE ME ALONE!