As a South Vietnamese, I have to admit you know more about our language (both written and oral) than us natives! 😳Really admire your knowledge and language skills! 👏
The reason sáu is written as 𦒹 (⿺老六) is because sáu was pronounced as láu in Middle Vietnamese (which sounds similar to lão 老). We can see this sound change to with other words too. Like sâu (deep; written as 漊), the Mandarin Chinese reading for it is lóu. Other examples include trăng being written as ⿱巴陵, the 巴 ba representing the in blăng. But in modern Vietnamese, the sound shifted from to , and finally, modern Vietnamese .
@@nexusanphans3813 ua-cam.com/video/zOKrNHZFryw/v-deo.html You can see all the sounds changes from Middle Vietnamese to modern Vietnamese in this video. The person is reading in a reconstruction of Middle Vietnamese.
Japanese speaker here. I want to add to the "mười (𨒒)" explanation you've made--- I think the phonetic component comes from the word 邁(迈) as in "邁進(まいしん, maishin)". Cheers.
1-10 Sino Vietnamese - Cantonese Nhất - Yat Nhị - Yi Tam - Xam Tứ - Xi Ngủ - Um (ng) Lục - Luk Thất - Zchach Bát - Bat Cửu - Gau Thập - Xap Pronouce same same
Thank you, Stuart for beautiful explanation of Chữ Nôm. Have you ever wondered why we call number one Một? Trứng hay Nôi là Mỗi (The nest or Cradle is Mỗi) Mỗi (Each) > Mập-Mờ (Dim) Mập (Fat) > Một (1) & Mờ (Dim) > Mô (Không, 0) Mỗi gives birth to the series of Mô, Mập-Mờ & Một Trứng hay Nôi là Một: MẤT…MỚI- MẺ…MAI Mai (ngày mai - tomorrow) leads to HAI (2) Một leads to Mải (focus on something) and to Mải miết (focus continuously), Miệt mài, Mãi mãi. In fact, Vietnamese is a kind of Âm Dương language and so from the nest (nôi) Mỗi, there are 2 children, one is Âm & 1 is Dương linked together as Mập-Mờ. Mập (âm) will become Một(1) & Mờ (dương) will become Mô (0).
Good to see your videos again! Having just listened to your recent Bangkok Podcast language critiques, I'm pleased to be able to call myself a 'one in hundreds' expat in VN who can read the script correctly! Nothing against the Bangkok Podcast guys, I love their work, but sometimes it's good to get a reality check that people really can struggle with the (so simple to anybody with basic linguistics) concept of written not implying phonemic /g/, even after they've been in SE Asia for decades.
But it's not just for those learning Vietnamese - even if you have a just a rudimentary grounding in Hanzi, Kanji, or Hanja, you can apply the principles to fast-track your learning of any language. And even if you've never thought about learning Vietnamese before, this video may change your mind
You're amasing. Im chinese. I have learnt english and japaness. The Original Ancient Chinese Hanzi(Japan also extend many Kanji) is very powerful and useful and can combine and adapt to many language( even fuse with english or some european language, by Original Ancient Chinese Hanzi ). I think you are very good and excellent teacher. You can do some stuff in that direaction. I think it maybe a very interesting and fun project. (e.g. 我需走今=>I gotta go now 雨外今=> It's raining outside now 春眠不觉晓=> spring sleep unaware morning, These words can easily recognize by chinese and japaness)
Chữ nôm is often formed by two Chinese words, one Chinese word for meaning, and one Chinese word for sound only. Nôm= 喃 which has the Chinese word “mouth” on the left, and the Chinese word “south” on the right. So, Chữ nôm means the language (characterized by the meaning of “mouth”) of the south, the word “south” in Chinese sounds very similar to the “Nam” as in Vietnam in Vietnamese. You see, one Chinese word for meaning, and one Chinese word for sound, the two combined gives a word in nôm. Also, “linh” as in 108 is mostly used in North Vietnam, “linh” is derived directly from Chinese, but southerners use “lẻ” not “linh”.
17:39 this part freak me out. i thought ur 2nd ego try to escape from you but then got suck back in . anyway thanks for your weekly language break down video i was wondering why u didn't upload for a long time i thought you gave up on youtube but nope haha, keep up the good work !
Wow I didn't pay much attention to the name Tan Son Nhat airport until today. I just googled and Tan Son Nhat airport apparently situated on an ancient village which happened to be on the highest mount in Saigon back in the 18th century. In Saigon they have Tan Son Nhat area and Tan Son Nhi area, so I guess Tan Son Nhi mount is smaller than Tan Son Nhat.
To avoid assimilation when subjected to Chinese domination and forced adoption of Chinese characters, the Vietnamese ancestors used Chinese script but pronounced it in the Vietnamese language. This helped preserve their culture and language amidst the imposition by a powerful political counterpart.
I (and a lot of VNese ppl) know the Chinese way of counting (nhất nhị tam tứ...) is similar to/adapted from Cantonese and for the Vietnamese way (một hai ba bốn...) I still wonder where it come from, now I know. Thanks for your great explaination, keep up!
Is there a book we could purchase on this unlocking chu nom with the English / Chinese narratives? I’ve been waiting for something like your video for over 20 years!
When using Chu Nom, you have to use how the language was pronounced. So 1 -10 in Chu Nom is pronounced as linh, nhất, nhị, tam, tứ, ngũ, lục, thất, bát, cửu, and thập which is much closer to Han Chinese than modern standard Vietnamese.
another rarely used word for 老 is 叟 in Cantonese , meaning old people and pronounced as 'sau'. 迈 in fact is pronounced as 'mai' in Cantonese, which is similar to 'muoi'
Like 65% of Vietnamese vocabulary is borrowed from Chinese (Sino-vietnamese). Thus many pronunciation is quite similar to Cantonese. The video shows how to pronounce Cardinal numbers. And you will see the similarity clearer when pronouncing Ordinal numbers. 1st - Nhất 2nd - Nhị/Nhì 3rd - Tam 4th - Tứ/Tư 5th - Ngũ 6th - Lục 7th - Thất 8th - Bát 9th - Cửu 10th - Thập But this pronunciation is becoming obsolete. Now only the 1st and 2nd are pronounced like that. From 3rd onward, it is "thứ + ordinal number" such as thứ tư, thứ năm, thứ sáu.
Sino-Vietnamese has 2 layers: Han and Tang. Eg, muôn vạn 萬, năm niên 年, giường sàng 床, mua mãi 買. Following pairs reflect different historical timeline: sách 冊 thư 書, tiếng 聖ngữ 語😊
This was super interesting, but I can see why the Vietnamese ditched this system. It would be nice for learners if Korea and Vietnam at least kept characters for Sinitic compounds though using a mixed system like Japanese.
Most of Vietnam’s 2000 years of history is written in Chu Han. Vietnam should really re-introduce Chu Han back into its school curriculum. The Latin based writing system is a completely ‘foreign’ invention. It’s absurd that most Vietnamese who visits the Temple of Literature in Hanoi can’t read any of the writing in this temple dedicated, ironically, to reading and writing.
I've learned a different explanation for một's chữ nôm character- the middle Chinese for 文 (/mɨun/) sounds like một, so it was modified by adding the 丿for the semantic component of "one". Though the nôm reading for 沒 is một, so I honestly don't know.
Long time no see I thought you've given up your endeavor in UA-cam without any warning I always wonder what happened to the UA-camr when I found their channel has no new video for a long time Sorry to have thought that that could be the legacy that they left to the world while they're still alive....
Your pronunciation is so good, Vietnamese is the most difficult language in the world, so we removed the Chinese characters to make it easier,It's too much Chinese characters, more than China, several times more than China,If we still keep ancient Chinese characters, I'm sure no one will want to learn it, this is the truth 🤣🤣🤣
The audio for this video buzzes in my left headphone. I can't get that to happen when listening to other videos, so maybe there's a problem with your equipment?
It's impressive to see a westerner who can spell tone "hỏi", "bảy". People can't spell my name, Bảo, correctly that I don't bother to correct them anymore.
Great video, but it baffles me everytime I here any non-vietnamese speaking vietnamese, how basically all of them learn the southern dialect, even down to sounding more "nasaly" compared to when they speak their mother language.🤣🤣
I suspect those ancient Vietnamese scholars of pro-Chinese pride were in fact the ones who destroyed the use of “logograms” in Vietnamese themselves. Like, if they permit the use of reading the Chinese characters instead of chu noms with Vietnamese sound, just like Japanese kunyomi. E.g. 一 as mot, 三 as ba, instead of 巴三, which is technically much harder to learn, then the folks might have preferred logograms over romanisation. But the scholars were so proud that, Chinese characters were forced to read with Chinese sounds only.
Most languages that use the Chinese script come up with new characters for new words. Even the Chinese does this as well. For example: the most archaic word for "pig" is "shǐ" which is written as 豕, later on the word "zhū" emerged, but instead of reading 豕 as "zhū", the Chinese invented the phono-semantic character 豬 (⿰豕者) for the word. Japanese with their kunyomi is just an outlier.
maybe you dont know but this 一 is nhất we cant pronounce một , 三 is tam not ba. In vietnamese, traditional chinese characters is also sino-vietnamese word so we need a new writting to write native vietnamese words that why we create 𡨸喃 chu nom. In history, many famous vietnamese poems are written by sino-vietnamese and native vietnamese so if writting 一 we dont know it's nhất or một
honestly the sound we took from sino-vietnamese sound not mandarin or cantonese one so you can see it not really definitely similar to mandarin or cantonese. because vietnam is next to guangxi(cantonnese) so sino-vietnamese sound more like cantonese than mandarin
@@minhquannguyen346 You're right. I replied before checking. Languages are full of surprises. From what I can see, Khmer is alone in using a biquinary number system among the Austronesian languages which makes it surprising that its numbers up to five are common to Austronesian. Then again, with its higher numbers coming from Thai it looks like Khmer built up its number system in several stages.
@@minh-thonghatruong8795 Harsh! But to pick up on his actual comment---I'm not sure what is so bad about being illiterate. I would like to see more people open to the idea of questioning the utility of universal literacy. Yes, there is utility---but for who? In my opinion, you only have to look at the 'nhiệt liệt chào mừng...[some triumphalist anniversary or other]' banners everywhere to divine the real intent behind universal literacy.
@@andrewdunbar828 Nowadays, there are not many people who know Nom script, only a few learn it because they love it, others are researchers such as professors, Buddhist monks.
don't know where you got the assumption that most Vietnamese don't wanna learn Chữ Nôm due to their xenophobia toward China. There's a significant portion of our population (just like in your - US - population) that dislike China, but that's not what prevent Chữ Nôm to regain its popularity. It is objectively harder to learn and use than the Latin alphabet. You only think Chữ Nôm is easy because of your Thai and Chinese background, which is absolutely subjective. That is what we Vietnamese actually dislike: foreigners using foreign culture as a framework to evaluate our own culture!
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 ridiculous, so the Vietnamese dont want learn Japanese Kanji as well? lol While in fact, Japan is one of the most favorable countries in Viet Nam. 🎌
@@StuartJayRaj No problem, I will elaborate. Anyone that truly wishes to teach a language to a non-native speaker would never consider the nuances of the language to be of primary importance. If you truly wish to impart your seemingly abundant knowledge of the beautiful Thai language, then I suggest you learn how to impart that knowledge. That is, learn how to be a teacher. Maybe I am wrong, and your only intention is to teach the Thai people about the nuances of their language - although surely nobody could be as arrogant as that :). For sure, you are not a teacher of languages for the non-native speaker. I am more than happy to show you how to teach. Just ask me, and I will help you. PS…I memorised all 44 Thai consonants in 1 hour. Although, the Thai vowels took me 6 hours to memorise. A bit more tricky. Please stop being a grifter and start being a teacher. Yours sincerely Paul PS Upon request I will give the links to the top 10 Thai language teachers on UA-cam.
This is so helpful, thanks. 字喃 phonosemantic compounds make way more sense to me than the Latin script, having enjoyed Japanese and Mandarin (no Cantonese yet, also looking at Hokkien)
As a South Vietnamese, I have to admit you know more about our language (both written and oral) than us natives! 😳Really admire your knowledge and language skills! 👏
OMG I have my mind blown by watching a foreigner explaining about my mother tongue. I love your video and I love that you love Vietnamese
Same. I'm learning my own language!
And he’s just casually throwing in some Cantonese too. 😂
The reason sáu is written as 𦒹 (⿺老六) is because sáu was pronounced as láu in Middle Vietnamese (which sounds similar to lão 老). We can see this sound change to with other words too. Like sâu (deep; written as 漊), the Mandarin Chinese reading for it is lóu.
Other examples include trăng being written as ⿱巴陵, the 巴 ba representing the in blăng. But in modern Vietnamese, the sound shifted from to , and finally, modern Vietnamese .
That's a rather dramatic sound change.
@@nexusanphans3813 ua-cam.com/video/zOKrNHZFryw/v-deo.html
You can see all the sounds changes from Middle Vietnamese to modern Vietnamese in this video. The person is reading in a reconstruction of Middle Vietnamese.
Many native Vietnamesewords start with "s" used to be pronouned with clustered consonants "kr". Sáu
Japanese speaker here.
I want to add to the "mười (𨒒)" explanation you've made--- I think the phonetic component comes from the word 邁(迈) as in "邁進(まいしん, maishin)".
Cheers.
1-10
Sino Vietnamese - Cantonese
Nhất - Yat
Nhị - Yi
Tam - Xam
Tứ - Xi
Ngủ - Um (ng)
Lục - Luk
Thất - Zchach
Bát - Bat
Cửu - Gau
Thập - Xap
Pronouce same same
It's easier to learn Vietnamese from learning Cantonese, which is the older Chinese language.
Lots of respect how you can pronounce so well as a caucasian 👏
Very clear explanation of Vietnamese language. Many thanks!
Thank you, Stuart for beautiful explanation of Chữ Nôm. Have you ever wondered why we call number one Một?
Trứng hay Nôi là Mỗi (The nest or Cradle is Mỗi)
Mỗi (Each) > Mập-Mờ (Dim)
Mập (Fat) > Một (1) & Mờ (Dim) > Mô (Không, 0)
Mỗi gives birth to the series of Mô, Mập-Mờ & Một
Trứng hay Nôi là Một: MẤT…MỚI- MẺ…MAI
Mai (ngày mai - tomorrow) leads to HAI (2)
Một leads to Mải (focus on something) and to Mải miết (focus continuously), Miệt mài, Mãi mãi.
In fact, Vietnamese is a kind of Âm Dương language and so from the nest (nôi) Mỗi, there are 2 children, one is Âm & 1 is Dương linked together as Mập-Mờ. Mập (âm) will become Một(1) & Mờ (dương) will become Mô (0).
Good to see your videos again! Having just listened to your recent Bangkok Podcast language critiques, I'm pleased to be able to call myself a 'one in hundreds' expat in VN who can read the script correctly! Nothing against the Bangkok Podcast guys, I love their work, but sometimes it's good to get a reality check that people really can struggle with the (so simple to anybody with basic linguistics) concept of written not implying phonemic /g/, even after they've been in SE Asia for decades.
But it's not just for those learning Vietnamese - even if you have a just a rudimentary grounding in Hanzi, Kanji, or Hanja, you can apply the principles to fast-track your learning of any language. And even if you've never thought about learning Vietnamese before, this video may change your mind
You're amasing. Im chinese. I have learnt english and japaness. The Original Ancient Chinese Hanzi(Japan also extend many Kanji) is very powerful and useful and can combine and adapt to many language( even fuse with english or some european language, by Original Ancient Chinese Hanzi ). I think you are very good and excellent teacher. You can do some stuff in that direaction. I think it maybe a very interesting and fun project. (e.g. 我需走今=>I gotta go now 雨外今=> It's raining outside now 春眠不觉晓=> spring sleep unaware morning, These words can easily recognize by chinese and japaness)
Chữ nôm is often formed by two Chinese words, one Chinese word for meaning, and one Chinese word for sound only. Nôm= 喃 which has the Chinese word “mouth” on the left, and the Chinese word “south” on the right. So, Chữ nôm means the language (characterized by the meaning of “mouth”) of the south, the word “south” in Chinese sounds very similar to the “Nam” as in Vietnam in Vietnamese. You see, one Chinese word for meaning, and one Chinese word for sound, the two combined gives a word in nôm. Also, “linh” as in 108 is mostly used in North Vietnam, “linh” is derived directly from Chinese, but southerners use “lẻ” not “linh”.
appreciate the lesson, vietnamese is gorgeous💕
very impressed with your linguistic prowess!
17:39 this part freak me out. i thought ur 2nd ego try to escape from you but then got suck back in . anyway thanks for your weekly language break down video i was wondering why u didn't upload for a long time i thought you gave up on youtube but nope haha, keep up the good work !
Wow I didn't pay much attention to the name Tan Son Nhat airport until today. I just googled and Tan Son Nhat airport apparently situated on an ancient village which happened to be on the highest mount in Saigon back in the 18th century. In Saigon they have Tan Son Nhat area and Tan Son Nhi area, so I guess Tan Son Nhi mount is smaller than Tan Son Nhat.
To avoid assimilation when subjected to Chinese domination and forced adoption of Chinese characters, the Vietnamese ancestors used Chinese script but pronounced it in the Vietnamese language. This helped preserve their culture and language amidst the imposition by a powerful political counterpart.
Thanks for the informative research !
I (and a lot of VNese ppl) know the Chinese way of counting (nhất nhị tam tứ...) is similar to/adapted from Cantonese and for the Vietnamese way (một hai ba bốn...) I still wonder where it come from, now I know. Thanks for your great explaination, keep up!
Hi. I'm Vietnamese. Thank you ❤
It'd be great if you created a Memrise course with your Indic consonant compass. That would allow your ideas to reach a wide audience.
Is there a book we could purchase on this unlocking chu nom with the English / Chinese narratives? I’ve been waiting for something like your video for over 20 years!
the Sino-Vietnamese counting sounds very similar to Cantonese counting.
we got nhất, nhị, tam, tứ, ngũ, lục, thất, bát, cửu, thập
go figure
this guy is a genius 😅
When using Chu Nom, you have to use how the language was pronounced. So 1 -10 in Chu Nom is pronounced as linh, nhất, nhị, tam, tứ, ngũ, lục, thất, bát, cửu, and thập which is much closer to Han Chinese than modern standard Vietnamese.
bạn đã nhầm rồi, nếu đọc : nhất nhị tam tứ ... bạn phải viết hán tự, một hai ba bốn... bằng chữ nôm là đúng rồi
Vietnam also has Viet-Han number counting, it sounds really close to cantonese
Nhất
Nhị
Tam
Tứ
Ngũ
Lục
Thất
Bát
Cửu
Thập
another rarely used word for 老 is 叟 in Cantonese , meaning old people and pronounced as 'sau'. 迈 in fact is pronounced as 'mai' in Cantonese, which is similar to 'muoi'
OMG
I’m as Vietnamese American I’m feeling shame,
You know more Vietnamese language and Chinese and in writing more than one I ever know
Amazing
Like 65% of Vietnamese vocabulary is borrowed from Chinese (Sino-vietnamese). Thus many pronunciation is quite similar to Cantonese. The video shows how to pronounce Cardinal numbers. And you will see the similarity clearer when pronouncing Ordinal numbers.
1st - Nhất
2nd - Nhị/Nhì
3rd - Tam
4th - Tứ/Tư
5th - Ngũ
6th - Lục
7th - Thất
8th - Bát
9th - Cửu
10th - Thập
But this pronunciation is becoming obsolete. Now only the 1st and 2nd are pronounced like that. From 3rd onward, it is "thứ + ordinal number" such as thứ tư, thứ năm, thứ sáu.
it's like we borrowed it from Cantonese
1: jat1
2: ji6
3: saam1
4: sei3
5: ng5
6: luk6
7: cat1
8: baat3
9: gau2
10: sap6
hokkienese
1: yie
2: ji
3: sha
4: si
5: ngo
6: luck
7: qih
8: buat
9: gau
10: zhap
oh fuck really ? I didnt know it :0
Sino-Vietnamese has 2 layers: Han and Tang. Eg, muôn vạn 萬, năm niên 年, giường sàng 床, mua mãi 買. Following pairs reflect different historical timeline: sách 冊 thư 書, tiếng 聖ngữ 語😊
Don't spread the wrong things when you can't prove the 60% ratio above. don't try to fabricate.
I'm Chinese, I was intimidated, it's really interesting, it turns out that Vietnamese also have the pronunciation of Chinese characters
Made life easier back when the country was a vassal to a Chinese ruler?
No, these are Nom characters, which was recorded our Vietnamese language from the 11-12th century. They’re different from Han
Brother I'm trying to self teach myself Vietnamese and Mandarin. Do you offer tutoring?
想請問 Jay Raj
聲調方面，從中古音看：彡歸鹽韻、㐱歸軫韻、參（作數字）歸談韻，與 tám, chín 對應中古音或許有較大的模糊空間🤔
還有是關於單純韻母結構，各個語音可能因為常用音素不同，差異甚大。以陽聲韻尾（鼻音韻尾）為例，越、韓語語音（或至少在古文或拼寫上）保留相對完整，但日語語音鼻音韻尾則大部分合流〜ん或〜う之尾音。是故以中古音推論音值的方法，保守地說，與「擬音」無異，猜的成份居多😥
另，關於流音（Liquids）在其它漢音中的模糊空間也不小。
This was super interesting, but I can see why the Vietnamese ditched this system. It would be nice for learners if Korea and Vietnam at least kept characters for Sinitic compounds though using a mixed system like Japanese.
Bằng chữ Nôm, anh cho biết các từ: thuyền, tàu, xuồng, bè có phải là từ thuần Việt, hay từ mượn của tiếng Hán cổ hay tiếng Thái
Thuyền = xuồng = 船 Tàu = 舟
If you speak Cantonese dialects, you will see a clear and direct relationship.
Most of Vietnam’s 2000 years of history is written in Chu Han. Vietnam should really re-introduce Chu Han back into its school curriculum. The Latin based writing system is a completely ‘foreign’ invention. It’s absurd that most Vietnamese who visits the Temple of Literature in Hanoi can’t read any of the writing in this temple dedicated, ironically, to reading and writing.
reason?
Japanese: Kanji
Chinese: Hanzi
Vietnamese: Hán tự
好厲害👍
very nice, like how you skipped the unlucky number around the 5 minute mark
I've learned a different explanation for một's chữ nôm character- the middle Chinese for 文 (/mɨun/) sounds like một, so it was modified by adding the 丿for the semantic component of "one". Though the nôm reading for 沒 is một, so I honestly don't know.
𠬠 'một' was derived from 沒 (also pronounced một), not 文 văn. We can see older variants of 𠬠 (⿱丷又) with 氵 in older chữ Nôm texts.
Thank you France
Holy cow. You know more about Asian languages than most Asians.
Long time no see
I thought you've given up your endeavor in UA-cam without any warning
I always wonder what happened to the UA-camr when I found their channel has no new video for a long time
Sorry to have thought that that could be the legacy that they left to the world while they're still alive....
after watching this video,Suddenly I feel like I'm a foreigner, and you're Vietnamese.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The first one makes sense. The rest of them just hurt my brain. I hear it makes more sense if you speak cantonese
Your pronunciation is so good, Vietnamese is the most difficult language in the world, so we removed the Chinese characters to make it easier,It's too much Chinese characters, more than China, several times more than China,If we still keep ancient Chinese characters, I'm sure no one will want to learn it, this is the truth 🤣🤣🤣
The audio for this video buzzes in my left headphone. I can't get that to happen when listening to other videos, so maybe there's a problem with your equipment?
vietnamhave 2 way to talking about the number its the same cantonese
nhất, nhị, tam, tứ, ngũ, lục......
It's impressive to see a westerner who can spell tone "hỏi", "bảy". People can't spell my name, Bảo, correctly that I don't bother to correct them anymore.
He is fluent in Thai, so he wouldn't find any difficulty with the tone "hỏi" of Vietnamese
🎉🎉🎉
I learned numbers 1-4 from the Hai Phut Hon song on TikTok... Idk the tones though
你好
Tân Sơn Nhất, the Nhất here means it's the no.1, since there used to be Tân Sơn Nhị, which Nhị means no.2 😂
interestingly he pronounce 0 rightfully like Saigon would "hông" (yeah it's written "không" but usually pronounced "hông").
t người Việt mà t còn chưa hiểu được chữ Nôm á :)
Why dont you write the characters on paper?
Great video, but it baffles me everytime I here any non-vietnamese speaking vietnamese, how basically all of them learn the southern dialect, even down to sounding more "nasaly" compared to when they speak their mother language.🤣🤣
You mean "hear"?
@@heian17 Yes, it's a typo.
Because there's a huge Chinese (Hoa) settlement in Cho Lon district during the 19th century.
I suspect those ancient Vietnamese scholars of pro-Chinese pride were in fact the ones who destroyed the use of “logograms” in Vietnamese themselves. Like, if they permit the use of reading the Chinese characters instead of chu noms with Vietnamese sound, just like Japanese kunyomi. E.g. 一 as mot, 三 as ba, instead of 巴三, which is technically much harder to learn, then the folks might have preferred logograms over romanisation. But the scholars were so proud that, Chinese characters were forced to read with Chinese sounds only.
Most languages that use the Chinese script come up with new characters for new words. Even the Chinese does this as well. For example: the most archaic word for "pig" is "shǐ" which is written as 豕, later on the word "zhū" emerged, but instead of reading 豕 as "zhū", the Chinese invented the phono-semantic character 豬 (⿰豕者) for the word. Japanese with their kunyomi is just an outlier.
maybe you dont know but this 一 is nhất we cant pronounce một , 三 is tam not ba. In vietnamese, traditional chinese characters is also sino-vietnamese word so we need a new writting to write native vietnamese words that why we create 𡨸喃 chu nom. In history, many famous vietnamese poems are written by sino-vietnamese and native vietnamese so if writting 一 we dont know it's nhất or một
its similar like Cantonese
it sound are more similar to cantonese than mandarin
honestly the sound we took from sino-vietnamese sound not mandarin or cantonese one so you can see it not really definitely similar to mandarin or cantonese. because vietnam is next to guangxi(cantonnese) so sino-vietnamese sound more like cantonese than mandarin
counting from 1-5 in vietnamese are closely similar to khmer cambodian
I think it's just coincidence and they don't really line up. The Khmer word for "one" always sounds like the Vietnamese word for "ten" to me.
@@andrewdunbar828 not coincidence, it's maybe due to the earliest ancestor of the two are the same, Proto-Austroasiatic
@@minhquannguyen346 The languages are related but the number systems seem very different. Vietnamese is decimal but Khmer is quinary.
@@andrewdunbar828 that's why I said counting from 1-5, not 1-10. Maybe the earliest ancestor just counted by 5 fingers on 1 hand, not both hands.
@@minhquannguyen346 You're right. I replied before checking. Languages are full of surprises. From what I can see, Khmer is alone in using a biquinary number system among the Austronesian languages which makes it surprising that its numbers up to five are common to Austronesian. Then again, with its higher numbers coming from Thai it looks like Khmer built up its number system in several stages.
越南十比较像是迈+十而不是逐十。
may mà giờ việt nam sài chữ quốc ngữ nếu không chắc toàn mù chữ
Nhìn cách bạn viết tiếng Việt thì mình không nghĩ vậy 😊
@@ta0304 because nowadays kanji is not useful anymore for vietnamese
@@minh-thonghatruong8795 Harsh! But to pick up on his actual comment---I'm not sure what is so bad about being illiterate. I would like to see more people open to the idea of questioning the utility of universal literacy. Yes, there is utility---but for who? In my opinion, you only have to look at the 'nhiệt liệt chào mừng...[some triumphalist anniversary or other]' banners everywhere to divine the real intent behind universal literacy.
@@ta0304 Don't calligraphers still use it? I know there is tons of calligraphy in Quoc-ngu but I'm just wondering...
@@andrewdunbar828 Nowadays, there are not many people who know Nom script, only a few learn it because they love it, others are researchers such as professors, Buddhist monks.
Nhìn cách mượn chữ là tôi biết latinh làm hỏng tiếng gốc như nào rồi ,
😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫
don't know where you got the assumption that most Vietnamese don't wanna learn Chữ Nôm due to their xenophobia toward China. There's a significant portion of our population (just like in your - US - population) that dislike China, but that's not what prevent Chữ Nôm to regain its popularity. It is objectively harder to learn and use than the Latin alphabet. You only think Chữ Nôm is easy because of your Thai and Chinese background, which is absolutely subjective. That is what we Vietnamese actually dislike: foreigners using foreign culture as a framework to evaluate our own culture!
so does the latinized one? 🤔
True. I am Vietnamese living in America and I want to learn Chữ Nôm as well as Cantonese.
You can't get more foreign than a Latin alphabet. 😂
So i don't think being foreign is the issue.
that's not an assumption. that's a fact. lots of Vietnamese don't want to learn chữ Nôm because it's difficult and look Chinese.
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 ridiculous, so the Vietnamese dont want learn Japanese Kanji as well? lol
While in fact, Japan is one of the most favorable countries in Viet Nam. 🎌
What the hell
With all respect, please stop being a grifter and start being a teacher 🙏🏽
would you care to elaborate
@@StuartJayRaj
No problem, I will elaborate. Anyone that truly wishes to teach a language to a non-native speaker would never consider the nuances of the language to be of primary importance. If you truly wish to impart your seemingly abundant knowledge of the beautiful Thai language, then I suggest you learn how to impart that knowledge. That is, learn how to be a teacher. Maybe I am wrong, and your only intention is to teach the Thai people about the nuances of their language - although surely nobody could be as arrogant as that :).
For sure, you are not a teacher of languages for the non-native speaker. I am more than happy to show you how to teach. Just ask me, and I will help you.
PS…I memorised all 44 Thai consonants in 1 hour. Although, the Thai vowels took me 6 hours to memorise. A bit more tricky.
Please stop being a grifter and start being a teacher.
Yours sincerely
Paul
PS
Upon request I will give the links to the top 10 Thai language teachers on UA-cam.
@@paulwood3460thank you. That gave me a good chuckle. You made my day
@@StuartJayRaj 👍👍🙏🏽🙏🏽
No wonder Chinese people learn to speak Vietnamese faster than Vietnamese learn Chinese . Amazing
nah
that is wrong, vietnamese has more tone which some of them aren't presented in chinese
It's the other way around lol
I've read that Chinese are shocked that a lot of Vietnamese can learn conversationanl Chinese within 6 months.
@@ibrohiem maybe less considering 60-70% vietnamese vocabularies are chinese or share same/ similar meaning
This is so helpful, thanks. 字喃 phonosemantic compounds make way more sense to me than the Latin script, having enjoyed Japanese and Mandarin (no Cantonese yet, also looking at Hokkien)
Thanks for your studies