How wonderful to know that Weston and his family are going to be educating thousands of Mormons to review the teachings that they grew up with. As a 75 year old ex Mormon grandmother to several gay grandkids, I rejoice and give thanks! 🙏💥💜🇿🇦 from South Africa 🇿🇦
The United Order restored by Joseph Smith Was actually an Abrahamic Covenant 1 of 2 It was the Covenant of Manservants aka Husbandmen (to serve equally) PROVIDED Men Sealed to each other in order: To have all assets in common When man died wives and children could go to another man under this Covenant instead of his father or brothers Like when Jonathan died his wives and children could go to David instead of Saul or brothers Provided Same Gener Marriage for males Surely Nathan prophet would have been sent to condemn if their intimate relationship was not acceptable before the Lord Joseph Smith renamed the Covenant since Polygamy had already been restored as Covenant of Maidservants AKA Wifewomen so feared retaliation for obvious similarity in terms so renamed it United Order Covenant of Wifewomen aka Polygamy is also Same Gender marriage for females Women could select a man for physical attributes and elect this Covenant They could set up own household and consider the man a sperm donor and coworker
Hi Wes, I’m still 50min away from finishing this second part, but what hit me the most is when they spoke about how you all will have eternal families one day and you only sobbed thinking “No, I’m not… I’m not”. I could feel your pain. I’m sure your parents agree that a a heaven without you would not be heaven, who would even want to be in such a place? Thank you for sharing so much of your personal experiences. They resonate so much. I don’t know where you are now, but be assured you can carve and follow your own path; whether be pursuing a professional career, doing what you are passionate about, raising a family with a man as kind as you. There is so much more to life than a church, and you can find a meaning to life, your own meaning, whatever that might be. I hope you are never again in that ugly place, where considering that losing your life is even an option. There is so much good in this world, and the world definitely needs you, son.
Never Mormon here. There was a seminary across the street from my high school and I would often go there for lunch break with my Mormon friends. This podcast has really opened my eyes to what my friends were going through. Explains a lot I didn’t understand at the time.
Dear Weston, I really connected to your story and was so moved. I saw all three of my boys in you, and even myself. Thank you 💞💞💞 My oldest was a league guy. My middle had suicidal ideation, my youngest was so lonely in school. I was a wreck for a long time also, my oldest feeling it was his job to step up. It's so hard to talk about and I appreciate you being so authentic.
The most riveting, heartrending, and honest discussion I've ever watched. I've ordered Weston's book and can't wait to read it. There is no religious institution in the world worthy of Weston's loyalty and love. He is one super human force for good. The Mormon Church would do well to listen to him. Thank you for your incredible courage and honesty, Weston. Much love and hugs from me.
These examples of unconditional love are the most Christlike examples I have ever heard or seen. This is what the LDS religion is supposed be. Not the power seeking, co trolling examples we usually see. Thank you for sharing g your painful but beautiful stories, this story has been a balm to my wounded soul.
I just finished this a couple hours late. I’ve had similar spiritual promptings to what Weston had to leave his mission. As I listened to John ask if it was from a higher power, I was screaming out “yes, Weston is the higher power, he is the highest power in his life.” It is liberating and very empowering to realize you have full control and autonomy for the only life you are guaranteed. No other person living or spirit has the control you have of your own choices. Great job Weston
Weston and Evan, my story has many similarities as a young gay exmo, and hearing your story helps me see the gaslighting for what it is! John, thank you so much for creating a space that helps everyone to see beyond the gaslighting and fog of Mormonism!
As an exmo ( returned missionary and seven times Young Men advisor ) I was riveted as I watched you, Wes and Evan - you are top quality human beings, as is your wife/mum, Cheryl, obviously. I hope there have been many hugs and expressions of love within your family after these podcasts .....you've greatly improved the futures of many ... and maybe even saved some lives. Great job !!
The honesty, strength, and turmoil this young man went through is mind blowing. Without the support of his family, I doubt he would be here today. Thank you so much for sharing your journey. "Edit": I tried to stop watching this a few times, but now I want to watch the other 2 parts. The deciding factor was his analogy of how straight people feel gay relationships are similar to perversion with animals. Made me think ...
Profound and heart scorching. John your inviting nature and analysis are so revelatory to that which is right before our eyes and goes unnoticed. These two men have trodden the path of fire and pain due to a system of patterned ways of thinking that results in the kind of emotional trauma that has been so aptly discussed in this episode. Thank you all for your confident courage to speak out at the numbing of empathy that is all to apparent once the eyes are opened and the heart is sensitized to these truths and realities.
This episode really hit hard for me. I had to paused the vid several times before I finished listening to it. I am very glad that Weston is a good place emotionally. And that he has a very supportive family.
Guys you are doing great job! I'm personally as LDS member being gay really appreciate what you all did to change the church doctrine. I wish Weston write many more good books and 'The body of water" is on my high priority list for the next month.
Discovering my ADHD late in life helped explain so much to me. It can make things so hard in church, as a missionary, and beyond. There's some recent research that suggests religions like ours could actually create or at least exacerbate ADHD in people. I'm glad that you've been learning more about yourself and you're able to do so now honestly and without pointless restriction.
Weston, you are so totally worth everything good and I hope life treats you just brilliantly from here on out. You are such an eloquent, emphathic, intelligent and kind-hearted human being (at least that's the impression one gets watching your interview ;) ). Just keep being you and being awesome. Also: deepest respect to Evan for changing his conservative stance on these issues and just loving and embracing his son for who he is. It's obvious how proud he is of his son. And even though things might not have been handled perfect in the past, you still have your whole life ahead of you as a loving family. Best wishes!
I am very happy to know that there are individuals such as you who are willing to share the honest situation you found yourself in regarding being gay. I think what stood out is that over 45% received a spiritual experience confirming your worth to the Lord. I also received mine when I tried suicide and received that special witness. Be very thankful for your parents and father who supported you and was there for you. Cherish that always. We are all created perfectly and it is sad that the Church leaders hold on to the Tree of Knowledge instead of the Tree of Life which is the pure love of Christ. We are special and created that way. Hold on your truth for it gets better and you will know for yourself, you are truly loved by Him more than you realize. Thank you for you.
Growing up in the church made me feel like I was a disposable person. It was clear I didn't fit in and when I tried to fit in and understand how to fit in, I was given the message over and over just go away.
I was told by my Mia Maid leaders that I would never get married because I wasn't feminine enough. Other YW leaders made inappropriate comments about my breast size as well. I internalized that because I already had endured a lot of trauma that tore me down by age 14.
Weston, you are so eloquent and insightful. Your self-awareness and ability to articulate the three self-reinforcing struggles (being gay, religious programming, and life-threatening depression) is so valuable. I especially valued your keen assessment of the out-sized influence church played in your mental health. Such remarkable insight for such a young person. Your comparison of mission elders to human-traffic victims was spot on. A real 'aha' moment. It just made sense. Controlled by adults, virtually zero agency over self, unpaid work for 'the man' who literally controls you, and no voice in any decisions... all are symptoms suffered by traffic victims. Might I say... despite our poisonous 'big boys don't cry' macho culture, you were at your most compelling when tears welled up from deep within. At those times you reveal an anguish that remains hidden only a fraction beneath the surface. Don't be ashamed of expressing those emotions. There is remarkable strength in vulnerability. Your message, your witness to others are strengthened -- not weakened -- by raw unfiltered emotion. As an LGBT ally and member of that huge family, I regularly educate others with a few compelling LGBT videos. Your video is now in that short list. And, I look forward to receiving your book. Thank you for mustering the courage to share such a difficult and personal journey. Great things lie ahead for you.
As a gay man of seventy-six, even I can identify with the struggles of the young men who tell their stories. I’m not Mormon but mentally review and compare my own story while listening to them. I wanted to make a long statement but will only say this: Evan Smith and John Dehlin were not born yet or at best toddlers when Anita Bryant and the likes of Jerry Falwell where stirring of extreme homophobia in the entire nation.
As an LDS convert who formerly (sadly) bought into the false teachings that being gay is sinful and changable-and after spending my entire life trying to change my gay nature, until my faithful, straight temple marriage ended four years ago-I’ve felt the need to step away from the church to remain close to God. These podcasts with the Smiths are truly amazing! They’ve helped me get closer to God and better understand myself and my divine gay nature. Thank you, John, Evan, and Wes , for the important work you’re doing! 🙏🏼💙
@@rodhancock3549 - Dry up. You are welcomed to live your own life and embrace your own religious beliefs. HOWEVER, to proclaim that others are wrong and should change their lives to align with yours is completely inappropriate and selfish.
What a powerful interview with Weston and his Dad! Weston is very in touch positively with his feelings and who he is authentically. He is a child of God, and God loves his created humans. Man has put up all the obstacles, RULES, and biases, but God reminds us that we are his and he wants us to live happy, fulfilling lives. John, you are so compassionate with your guests. Your interviews are reaching new pinnacles this year, as you welcome a fluid open discussion and your questions are sensitive and meaningful! Thank you! Your sabbaticals with Margi have put you in a new, relaxed place!! Kudos!
So good. Such a good story. Raw and painful but then freedom. I'm not even Mormon and I'm absolutely wiped out emotionally. I'm going to have to take a little break before starting part 3.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, for speaking out!!!! It took us 6 years before we chose to leave the church after our first child came out to us. Heavy cognitive dissonance kept us in, but in our gut, our parental instincts told us it was wrong to stay. It was after our youngest told us that she'd rather die than stay in the church, we finally woke up!! She knew there was no place there for her and a lifetime of celibacy or in a mixed-orientation marriage was never going to be sustainable. That is no life! It is a cruel and unusual punishment!!! We realized then that the church was NEVER going to change and we needed to step away in order to literally save the life of our child. While we did have many good experiences in the church, ultimately it wasn't a safe place for our family any longer. We've had other kids come out along the way as well and we're really beginning to understand how very hurtful it was for them to be in that environment. The church is all about families, but it was literally tearing our family apart. Never again will I let an organization tell me to love MY CHILD with CONDITIONS! Now we are free to celebrate, openly, however, we see fit. We're finding joy again while many moments were lost to this corporation. Weston, your courage and strength will be witnessed by many, so keep on sharing your message. We could relate to your circumstance on so many levels, including the ADHD and depression aspects. I hope you find your sweetheart who you can look forward to living a beautiful life with! Our first child who came out to us has that now and it's so exciting to watch them together! They are a perfect pair. Lots of healing is happening and the only way to get there was by leaving and now being vocal for change. Hugs from this fellow mama of several LGBTQ kids!
Such a well written, powerful comment. Thank you for sharing it and thank you Evan and Weston. The love, respect, and sense of awe that you have your for your son, Weston, shines through every part of this Mormon Story. Love always wins.
I have never head anyone so succictly express the condition of depressed Mormon women and how they were the sacrifice that grew the kingdom. I spent so many years trying to find that happiness the gospel is supposed to bring, but I only ever felt the inadequacy in my own character and the failings of my attempt to be the amazing mom and supportive wife, and charitble, hard working sister in Zion. What a voluminous crock of horseshit! I was an overworked, unpaid employee of the corporation of the church. The time and effort they needed was always first, no matter what my family needed and I WAS failing as a mother but it was because the church already took so much. The incongruity between the "happy family" face of the church and what's really going on behind closed doors is overwhelming.
The paradox of his friends group in the church being the only thing he had to hold him back from going over the cliff and the church being the thing pushing him to rhe bring must have been maddening
When I saw the "Altitude" in the chapter titles, I thought it was some sort of organization. I had no idea they were blaming this on like, physical altitude, as in height from sea level. Wild.
Absolutely incredible! THIS STORY IS PAINFULLY HORRIFIC. It is also stunning to witness mom and dad observe their blind spots and to do their work so they had the ability to give the support that he needed. This is so important for people that haven’t come to understand the seriousness of these situations, that they have the opportunity to see the harm and the cost that is on the line. THANK YOU!
I’m so impressed with Evan and the amazing, introspective father he is. Bravo! So inspirational to me as a parent. I think you should feel very proud of yourself and your example.
As a clinically depressed mum (to a probably gay preteen), ally, exmo, and abused "perfect" mormon family member, this is a really hard watch. I am full of admiration for these 2 amazing men. Evan should not be ashamed of his behaviour when he knew no better. It is the mark of the man to be able to change his thinking when presented with the real facts rather than the hate, bile and spite taught my the church. I left the church at the end of the 80s when I was a late teen bit my life is still totally affected by how I was brought up and the conflicts therein. I am determined not to treat my boys as I was and am hyper aware of the effect these teachings have and for how long!!
Glad you didn't do anything detrimental to yourself....your heart is so good &God knows the heart ❤️... LOVE is what matters..Thanks for your courage to share with us..
There is also a video by David Archuleta during his coming out to himself that he thought he was asexual, because while denying his attraction to men, he simply didn't feel it for women.
i love when he mentioned that if he meets God afterlife he is righteous, cause he did his best and now it is on him. i just wanted to say that God for sure loves you and no one can say he does not.
Weston, Thank you for sharing your story. I believe you had a personal affirmation from the Holy Spirit. I served my mission from '96 -- '98. I had spiritual experiences before, on the mission and after. I got married and had two kids. Got into trouble and was excommunicated and divorced. Afterwards, anything I heard about truth I received affirmations from the light of Christ. Or when something is wrong, I feel that it is. I am Gay myself and do believe the Savior does love LGBTQ members. I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago. Looking back, I too had a hard time in school and on my mission. Even at work, I had allot and now realize I was given too much to do because I made my job look easy. Your story was great to listen to. Thank you. BTW - your insight about the Family Proclaimation makes sense.
I'm just glad that Weston's MP allowed him to go home. I tried to go home and mine refused to give me my passport. He had it locked away at the mission HQ
Some of my favorite episodes are members who talk of their missionary experiences. Seems like there should be a recurring theme of Missionary Stories. They are so visible and known in greater society. Maybe have special guests from other denominations who also proselytize? I worked with a girl who was saving money to go on a mission to South America for her church. They ran social programs to feed and house people. She was blown away when I told her that’s not what Mormon Missionaries do. I can never understand why the LDS Church doesn’t want to do this kind of thing. More effective than soccer baptisms to my mind
Wow! Wes Smith is a very impressive young man. The level of his intelligence, thoughtfulness, courage , etc., etc. are so high , they are off the charts. The whole time I wanted to reach thru my screen to give him a hug. ( His dad is more than ok too.) Thanks so much for making it possible for them to share themselves with us. This program is just awesome.
So wonderful seeing how Weston and his father came out of the emotional toxicicity of religion and are seemingly close now. Religion is so destructive.
I watched the first episode. I am one third into this episode. Weston's story, his knowing the truth of life versus the fairytale we strived to participate in as ADHD children (I never completely became an adult) gives me motivation to once again TRY. I am 66. My answer at his age, was to join the military. Nothing I did, no religion, no career, no music, no accomplishments ever validated me as a human, until my own father (as he was dying) made a statement about and to me recognizing me and my real goodness. Of course at that late age, I had basically no family structure to move forward with. The boost I got from my father, it lasted longer than anything else I had ever swung with in my life, but just like any swing, with no energy, it came to a stop. Mormon Stories Podcast has so much more to offer to any of us who are just trying to find a comfortable and meaningful "agenda" to attach ourselves to and continue on in this thing we call life. Even though I also lived in Utah, knew Mormon's, etc.... that only brought me to this channel.... I had no idea my curiosity would be so beneficial. ( I still can't get over how so many queer people get such awesome loopy curls )
Wow wow wow such a powerful story to listen to. I watch this video and it was mind-boggling to hear the truth. This young man is a powerhouse of a young man and I will be real. He’s got the biggest boys to speak out like that boy you’re not a boy you’re a real young man and you will be happy raising kids with your significant other. Have your boyfriend we need to start getting these influencers that influence the church through social The band family, Brock and Boston should really see these videos and handed these books any family that has young individuals that wanna do a mission let them read this and hopefully they’ll be enlightened and not go. Serve a mission.
So powerful. I hope a lot of LGBQ still in the church see & hear this. I hate that we are hearing from those like Holland that they mourn & cry for the LGBQ community. It’s time to celebrate them, not mourn for them.
Wow I am so impressed with Weston! And he’s what age? Did I hear correct that he’s 16? I am just shocked with his self awareness and ability to communicate. He is wise beyond his years. What a beautiful person. And there must be such love and trust between parents and the child because he spoke about things I’d still be uncomfortable talking about in front of my parents and I am 40. Also kudos to the father. It is so clear he loves his son immensely. You can tell by the way he looks at him and listens to what he says without interruption or judgement. Plus the fact that he can admit to his parenting mistakes and acknowledge what his son is saying and validate his feelings. That is so healing. I still wish my parents would do that and so do my siblings but we will probably wait forever.
I don't know either of these people, but I'm (weirdly) proud of this young person for being brave enough to stand up to be himself in the face of severe social pressure to conform. And kudos to his family for being supportive of him. My family is from a high control group and we lost one of my young cousins to suicide. A few years later their sister told me it was because they were Trans and the family and God botherers the family subscribed to were not OK with that. It was garbage - no religious dogma is worth making someone feel so bad in their own skin that suicide becomes the only out they can see.
The Bishop is a good man and a good father, so much respect for both him and his handsome son. I also came out while I was quite young, 14 to be honest. I wish my father had been that supportive. He's not homophobic or anything like that, he's just not talkative.
Wonderful talk. I am a gay man and I have learned so much about what some have had to go through. I was a very straight acting, athletic teen so No One knew until I was outed at 28. Even today, while I am out, most people that know me have no idea. Cheers for enlightening me.
The Sam Harris quote I was reminded of from The End of Faith is, "While moderation in religion may seem a reasonable position to stake out, in light of all that we have (and have not) learned about the universe, it offers no bulwark against religious extremism and religious violence. From the perspective of those seeking to live by the letter of the texts, the religious moderate is nothing more than a failed fundamentalist. He is, in all likelihood, going to wind up in hell with the rest of the unbelievers... Religious moderation is the product of secular knowledge and scriptural ignorance - and it has no bona fides, in religious terms, to put it on a par with fundamentalism. The texts themselves are unequivocal: they are perfect in all their parts. By their light, religious moderation appears to be nothing more than an unwillingness to fully submit to God's law. By failing to live by the letter of the text, while tolerating the irrationality of those who do, religious moderates betray faith and reason equally." I agree with Sam's assessment of religious moderation.
Such a wonderful story and I appreciate the participants so very much for speaking the truth about their experiences and the condemnation of the church and they're continued perseverance of gay and lesbian young people I have often said the reason why Utah ranks up to the top in suicide is because of the pressure of gay and lesbian children and I'm glad to see it finally being acknowledged a sad sad detrimental rank church should be more inclusive and understanding of these people they are human beings they did not choose to be this way they are and they are wonderful people the church needs to grow up and not be so controlling thank you both for your participation a wonderful discussion of your experience and how you came out of it for the most part good luck to you and your future
A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within' by a gay author... My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE... Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave. The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist. For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment. The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing. The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence. The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists. Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’. On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication. For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything. NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.
The fact that he used the word "leaked" when he was talking about the policy change says it all. The church tries to hide things from it's members. Of course they didn't want that information out for the general member's knowledge, because they knew they would get a lot of backlash from it, and that's why they had to reverse it eventually.
I’m surprised that how absolutely mentally, physically and sexually abusive serving Mormon missions isn’t more widely known. I think that if the secular society knew the countless horror stories then things could change. The only thing the Mormon Church responds to is embarrassment. How many struggle with thoughts of self harm? It’s drilled into them to immediately get married upon their return home. And the pressure to complete that mission and make your parents and ward proud! Bully for you Dad and Mom to tell him he can come home with Love!
I am gaining so much from hearing this interview. As an inactive convert this is the reason I became inactive. I could not stand behind the stand the church had on human issues.
Interesting podcast. I found Weston very articulate. The one thing I would challenge him on-not everyone will see the world the same as you. Sometimes you need to accept others world view and still be kind and let them have their space. Acceptance goes both ways. I am shocked you went on the mission or stay in the Mormon church. You can help people outside of the Mormon religion.
I know I can search, and sometimes it works easy, sometimes it doesn’t - I always feel like that UA-cam trying to distract us and make use spend more time/see something else and click. Anyway, where is part 1? A link in description or tagged card on the video would be AMAZING. i am avid UA-cam user and still can’t always make it show me what I want even though I know how it is titled or where it should be and that it does exist. 😅
Although I do believe porn has "addictive" aspects to it and I think it can negatively impact relationships, I see it similar to being addicted to social media or sugar. As someone who watched my little brother struggle with a heroin addiction for many years I do find that silly to compare it to a drug addiction. They aren't the same, and the church has no idea how offensive that is.. even comparing comparing nicotine is not at all the same. Good job though, dad, on all the accountability you are taking. We as humans don't always do things the best way the first time but the self reflection and accountability is probably a huge aid in his healing from the shame and guilt he felt growing up.much love
Thanks! Accountability is scary sometimes, but feels good when embraced. And I agree that porn can be problematic for many reasons (including because much of it exploits vulnerable women). It can be compulsive. But the comparison to substance addiction is completely wrong, as you note (and sorry about the hardship your brother faced).
@Idaho Mom Reports ( Daybell Trial Coverage 2023) - Just like with women, one's exterior appearance has nothing to do with their inner self. It is a shallow value for you to have.
Weston Smith served his mission in Brazil. The current president of Brazil (Jair Bolsonaro) is openly and deeply homophobic. As an American, I do not know how well Bolsonaro's homophobia mirrors that of Brazilian society (UPDATE: Weston said that the Brazilians were less uptight than Americans. Good to hear.). I think Weston's mission president's advice about keeping his gayness to himself was sound advice. Other American missionaries might have reacted poorly, other Brazilian members and missionaries might have reacted poorly, and / or non-Mormon citizens of Brazil might have reacted poorly. Still in 2022, unfortunately, in many parts of the world it is still not safe for LGBT individuals. I live in the Pacific Northwest. Eastern WA and Northern Idaho are still places were it is potentially dangerous to be gay. If I am remembering correctly, not too long ago, north of Spokane WA, a gay high school student was murdered because he was gay. My adult daughter is part of the LGBT community and I advise her to be careful, because we live in a rural and close minded part of WA. EDIT: The Brazilian missionaries sounded pretty laid back and cool.
Weston absolutely got revelation from God through the Holy Spirit that his gay nature is divine, and that he should seek companionship in harmony with his orientation. Even though the LDS Church has many human leaders who are dead wrong about LGBT people, God is still real. God created us gay or LGBT, so it’s a divine nature. God is one thing, the church led by humans is another thing. Every gay or LGBT person who gets a heavenly manifestation that they are good, that God created them (us) this way, and that our nature is divine is getting true and pure revelation. Nothing in properly translated scripture and nothing in the non-canonized, non-doctrine family proclamation (lower case intentionally) prohibits gay or trans marriage, and nothing in them prohibits LGBT people living to the fullest measure of our creation. God made us LGBT and he wants us to thrive.
In the beginning God created male and female. He did not breath homosexuality into any of His children. People learn their sexual orientation by what they chose in their everyday life. They can make their own choices but they can’t chose their consequences. To be carnally minded is death but to be spiritually minded is eternal life. There are absolutes in Heavenly Fathers plan.
How wonderful to know that Weston and his family are going to be educating thousands of Mormons to review the teachings that they grew up with. As a 75 year old ex Mormon grandmother to several gay grandkids, I rejoice and give thanks! 🙏💥💜🇿🇦 from South Africa 🇿🇦
I didn't even know there were Mormons here at all. Do you guys not do missions?
@@chrisnorcutt9060, the Bible is used in the Mormon church. God made very little clear. Humans filled in the rest.
@@chrisnorcutt9060God didn't make anything clear. You've literally never met him or heard him. Grow up.
The United Order restored by Joseph Smith
Was actually an Abrahamic Covenant 1 of 2
It was the Covenant of Manservants aka Husbandmen (to serve equally)
PROVIDED
Men Sealed to each other in order:
To have all assets in common
When man died wives and children could go to another man under this Covenant instead of his father or brothers
Like when Jonathan died his wives and children could go to David instead of Saul or brothers
Provided Same Gener Marriage for males
Surely Nathan prophet would have been sent to condemn if their intimate relationship was not acceptable before the Lord
Joseph Smith renamed the Covenant since Polygamy had already been restored as Covenant of Maidservants AKA Wifewomen so feared retaliation for obvious similarity in terms so renamed it United Order
Covenant of Wifewomen aka Polygamy is also Same Gender marriage for females
Women could select a man for physical attributes and elect this Covenant
They could set up own household and consider the man a sperm donor and coworker
Hi Wes, I’m still 50min away from finishing this second part, but what hit me the most is when they spoke about how you all will have eternal families one day and you only sobbed thinking “No, I’m not… I’m not”. I could feel your pain.
I’m sure your parents agree that a a heaven without you would not be heaven, who would even want to be in such a place?
Thank you for sharing so much of your personal experiences. They resonate so much.
I don’t know where you are now, but be assured you can carve and follow your own path; whether be pursuing a professional career, doing what you are passionate about, raising a family with a man as kind as you.
There is so much more to life than a church, and you can find a meaning to life, your own meaning, whatever that might be.
I hope you are never again in that ugly place, where considering that losing your life is even an option.
There is so much good in this world, and the world definitely needs you, son.
Never Mormon here. There was a seminary across the street from my high school and I would often go there for lunch break with my Mormon friends. This podcast has really opened my eyes to what my friends were going through. Explains a lot I didn’t understand at the time.
Dear Weston,
I really connected to your story and was so moved. I saw all three of my boys in you, and even myself. Thank you 💞💞💞
My oldest was a league guy. My middle had suicidal ideation, my youngest was so lonely in school. I was a wreck for a long time also, my oldest feeling it was his job to step up. It's so hard to talk about and I appreciate you being so authentic.
Evan it feels like you just want to reach over and hug Weston so hard. Thank you both for sharing your story. ❤️
I'm so glad they are still here and their father is supportive now 🥺
The most riveting, heartrending, and honest discussion I've ever watched. I've ordered Weston's book and can't wait to read it. There is no religious institution in the world worthy of Weston's loyalty and love. He is one super human force for good. The Mormon Church would do well to listen to him. Thank you for your incredible courage and honesty, Weston. Much love and hugs from me.
These examples of unconditional love are the most Christlike examples I have ever heard or seen. This is what the LDS religion is supposed be. Not the power seeking, co trolling examples we usually see. Thank you for sharing g your painful but beautiful stories, this story has been a balm to my wounded soul.
If Mormonism wasn't so adept at driving out its best and brightest, I would think it was deliberate.
I just finished this a couple hours late. I’ve had similar spiritual promptings to what Weston had to leave his mission. As I listened to John ask if it was from a higher power, I was screaming out “yes, Weston is the higher power, he is the highest power in his life.” It is liberating and very empowering to realize you have full control and autonomy for the only life you are guaranteed. No other person living or spirit has the control you have of your own choices. Great job Weston
Weston and Evan, my story has many similarities as a young gay exmo, and hearing your story helps me see the gaslighting for what it is!
John, thank you so much for creating a space that helps everyone to see beyond the gaslighting and fog of Mormonism!
As an exmo ( returned missionary and seven times Young Men advisor ) I was riveted as I watched you, Wes and Evan - you are top quality human beings, as is your wife/mum, Cheryl, obviously. I hope there have been many hugs and expressions of love within your family after these podcasts .....you've greatly improved the futures of many ... and maybe even saved some lives. Great job !!
The honesty, strength, and turmoil this young man went through is mind blowing. Without the support of his family, I doubt he would be here today. Thank you so much for sharing your journey. "Edit": I tried to stop watching this a few times, but now I want to watch the other 2 parts. The deciding factor was his analogy of how straight people feel gay relationships are similar to perversion with animals. Made me think ...
I love Weston’s fresh and young perspective!!!! Thanks for sharing Weston, we need more voices like you speaking out!
Our kids are not collateral damage. They are precious! We need change now!
Profound and heart scorching. John your inviting nature and analysis are so revelatory to that which is right before our eyes and goes unnoticed. These two men have trodden the path of fire and pain due to a system of patterned ways of thinking that results in the kind of emotional trauma that has been so aptly discussed in this episode. Thank you all for your confident courage to speak out at the numbing of empathy that is all to apparent once the eyes are opened and the heart is sensitized to these truths and realities.
This episode really hit hard for me. I had to paused the vid several times before I finished listening to it. I am very glad that Weston is a good place emotionally. And that he has a very supportive family.
Just ordered the book and can’t wait to read it after listening to two parts of this amazing family’s journey.
An ADHDer here. Thank you for including this part in your story ❤
Guys you are doing great job! I'm personally as LDS member being gay really appreciate what you all did to change the church doctrine. I wish Weston write many more good books and 'The body of water" is on my high priority list for the next month.
Discovering my ADHD late in life helped explain so much to me. It can make things so hard in church, as a missionary, and beyond. There's some recent research that suggests religions like ours could actually create or at least exacerbate ADHD in people. I'm glad that you've been learning more about yourself and you're able to do so now honestly and without pointless restriction.
Weston is so brave and admirable! I hope he finds happiness, love, and peace in his life!
Weston, you are so totally worth everything good and I hope life treats you just brilliantly from here on out. You are such an eloquent, emphathic, intelligent and kind-hearted human being (at least that's the impression one gets watching your interview ;) ). Just keep being you and being awesome. Also: deepest respect to Evan for changing his conservative stance on these issues and just loving and embracing his son for who he is. It's obvious how proud he is of his son. And even though things might not have been handled perfect in the past, you still have your whole life ahead of you as a loving family. Best wishes!
What an incredible story. Thanks for being true to your values Weston! I relate very much and appreciated your gentle honest words!
I am very happy to know that there are individuals such as you who are willing to share the honest situation you found yourself in regarding being gay. I think what stood out is that over 45% received a spiritual experience confirming your worth to the Lord. I also received mine when I tried suicide and received that special witness. Be very thankful for your parents and father who supported you and was there for you. Cherish that always. We are all created perfectly and it is sad that the Church leaders hold on to the Tree of Knowledge instead of the Tree of Life which is the pure love of Christ. We are special and created that way. Hold on your truth for it gets better and you will know for yourself, you are truly loved by Him more than you realize. Thank you for you.
Growing up in the church made me feel like I was a disposable person. It was clear I didn't fit in and when I tried to fit in and understand how to fit in, I was given the message over and over just go away.
I am so sorry Janice. I hope you have found a loving community now!
@@letahamilton, the ex Mo community is just as toxic.
I was told by my Mia Maid leaders that I would never get married because I wasn't feminine enough. Other YW leaders made inappropriate comments about my breast size as well. I internalized that because I already had endured a lot of trauma that tore me down by age 14.
@@jaymanmason2444 I haven't found that it's toxic. But with any group in life there will be people that don't like each other.
Weston, you are so eloquent and insightful. Your self-awareness and ability to articulate the three self-reinforcing struggles (being gay, religious programming, and life-threatening depression) is so valuable. I especially valued your keen assessment of the out-sized influence church played in your mental health. Such remarkable insight for such a young person.
Your comparison of mission elders to human-traffic victims was spot on. A real 'aha' moment. It just made sense. Controlled by adults, virtually zero agency over self, unpaid work for 'the man' who literally controls you, and no voice in any decisions... all are symptoms suffered by traffic victims.
Might I say... despite our poisonous 'big boys don't cry' macho culture, you were at your most compelling when tears welled up from deep within. At those times you reveal an anguish that remains hidden only a fraction beneath the surface. Don't be ashamed of expressing those emotions. There is remarkable strength in vulnerability. Your message, your witness to others are strengthened -- not weakened -- by raw unfiltered emotion.
As an LGBT ally and member of that huge family, I regularly educate others with a few compelling LGBT videos. Your video is now in that short list.
And, I look forward to receiving your book. Thank you for mustering the courage to share such a difficult and personal journey. Great things lie ahead for you.
I am partway through. Tearing up listening to Weston's pain. So brave to share this.
As a gay man of seventy-six, even I can identify with the struggles of the young men who tell their stories. I’m not Mormon but mentally review and compare my own story while listening to them. I wanted to make a long statement but will only say this: Evan Smith and John Dehlin were not born yet or at best toddlers when Anita Bryant and the likes of Jerry Falwell where stirring of extreme homophobia in the entire nation.
As an LDS convert who formerly (sadly) bought into the false teachings that being gay is sinful and changable-and after spending my entire life trying to change my gay nature, until my faithful, straight temple marriage ended four years ago-I’ve felt the need to step away from the church to remain close to God. These podcasts with the Smiths are truly amazing! They’ve helped me get closer to God and better understand myself and my divine gay nature. Thank you, John, Evan, and Wes , for the important work you’re doing! 🙏🏼💙
There is no such thing as divine gay nature. Reread The Family a Proclamation. Go back to your God given moorings and become like the Savior.
@@rodhancock3549 - Dry up. You are welcomed to live your own life and embrace your own religious beliefs. HOWEVER, to proclaim that others are wrong and should change their lives to align with yours is completely inappropriate and selfish.
News flash, it is a sin to engage in homosexual behavior. In this world or the world to come a homosexual will not inherit the celestial kingdom.
What a powerful interview with Weston and his Dad! Weston is very in touch positively with his feelings and who he is authentically. He is a child of God, and God loves his created humans. Man has put up all the obstacles, RULES, and biases, but God reminds us that we are his and he wants us to live happy, fulfilling lives. John, you are so compassionate with your guests. Your interviews are reaching new pinnacles this year, as you welcome a fluid open discussion and your questions are sensitive and meaningful! Thank you! Your sabbaticals with Margi have put you in a new, relaxed place!! Kudos!
So good. Such a good story. Raw and painful but then freedom. I'm not even Mormon and I'm absolutely wiped out emotionally. I'm going to have to take a little break before starting part 3.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, for speaking out!!!! It took us 6 years before we chose to leave the church after our first child came out to us. Heavy cognitive dissonance kept us in, but in our gut, our parental instincts told us it was wrong to stay. It was after our youngest told us that she'd rather die than stay in the church, we finally woke up!! She knew there was no place there for her and a lifetime of celibacy or in a mixed-orientation marriage was never going to be sustainable. That is no life! It is a cruel and unusual punishment!!! We realized then that the church was NEVER going to change and we needed to step away in order to literally save the life of our child. While we did have many good experiences in the church, ultimately it wasn't a safe place for our family any longer. We've had other kids come out along the way as well and we're really beginning to understand how very hurtful it was for them to be in that environment. The church is all about families, but it was literally tearing our family apart. Never again will I let an organization tell me to love MY CHILD with CONDITIONS! Now we are free to celebrate, openly, however, we see fit. We're finding joy again while many moments were lost to this corporation. Weston, your courage and strength will be witnessed by many, so keep on sharing your message. We could relate to your circumstance on so many levels, including the ADHD and depression aspects. I hope you find your sweetheart who you can look forward to living a beautiful life with! Our first child who came out to us has that now and it's so exciting to watch them together! They are a perfect pair. Lots of healing is happening and the only way to get there was by leaving and now being vocal for change. Hugs from this fellow mama of several LGBTQ kids!
@shelbert99 - Thank you so much for your comment. I couldn’t agree more. So glad to hear where you and your family are now!
Your the best dad for your son and I love your son watching from Western Europe lds here too!❤
Such a well written, powerful comment. Thank you for sharing it and thank you Evan and Weston. The love, respect, and sense of awe that you have your for your son, Weston, shines through every part of this Mormon Story.
Love always wins.
I have never head anyone so succictly express the condition of depressed Mormon women and how they were the sacrifice that grew the kingdom. I spent so many years trying to find that happiness the gospel is supposed to bring, but I only ever felt the inadequacy in my own character and the failings of my attempt to be the amazing mom and supportive wife, and charitble, hard working sister in Zion. What a voluminous crock of horseshit! I was an overworked, unpaid employee of the corporation of the church. The time and effort they needed was always first, no matter what my family needed and I WAS failing as a mother but it was because the church already took so much. The incongruity between the "happy family" face of the church and what's really going on behind closed doors is overwhelming.
This is a fascinating podcast! Thank you so much for sharing your stories!!!
The paradox of his friends group in the church being the only thing he had to hold him back from going over the cliff and the church being the thing pushing him to rhe bring must have been maddening
Cognitive dissonance at its best.
When I saw the "Altitude" in the chapter titles, I thought it was some sort of organization. I had no idea they were blaming this on like, physical altitude, as in height from sea level. Wild.
Thank you for sharing your stories, Evan and Weston
Wes you have touched my heart. You have such a beautiful soul♥️
Absolutely incredible! THIS STORY IS PAINFULLY HORRIFIC. It is also stunning to witness mom and dad observe their blind spots and to do their work so they had the ability to give the support that he needed. This is so important for people that haven’t come to understand the seriousness of these situations, that they have the opportunity to see the harm and the cost that is on the line. THANK YOU!
I’m so impressed with Evan and the amazing, introspective father he is. Bravo! So inspirational to me as a parent. I think you should feel very proud of yourself and your example.
Thanks! I made a lot of mistakes but super glad I’ve been able to grow from those.
The young people are going to save humanity. ❤
Good for you, what a guy! I am glad you were able to serve. You have wonderful parents. Good Luck in the future and best wishes to. You!
This body of water, what a great title
Weston, you show great courage and strength 👌Keep on keeping on....
I also have a gay son ... But both of us have risen above the .Mormon cult and left it.
Think of it as "graduating". 💪🎓
And some seeds fell among the thorns.
As a clinically depressed mum (to a probably gay preteen), ally, exmo, and abused "perfect" mormon family member, this is a really hard watch. I am full of admiration for these 2 amazing men. Evan should not be ashamed of his behaviour when he knew no better. It is the mark of the man to be able to change his thinking when presented with the real facts rather than the hate, bile and spite taught my the church. I left the church at the end of the 80s when I was a late teen bit my life is still totally affected by how I was brought up and the conflicts therein. I am determined not to treat my boys as I was and am hyper aware of the effect these teachings have and for how long!!
Thanks!
Glad you didn't do anything detrimental to yourself....your heart is so good &God knows the heart ❤️... LOVE is what matters..Thanks for your courage to share with us..
The feeling of “I don’t know why the law of chastity is so hard for people” is SO common with closeted gay lds youths. 😂 I felt the same exact way.
There is also a video by David Archuleta during his coming out to himself that he thought he was asexual, because while denying his attraction to men, he simply didn't feel it for women.
i love when he mentioned that if he meets God afterlife he is righteous, cause he did his best and now it is on him. i just wanted to say that God for sure loves you and no one can say he does not.
Thoughtful, insightful, articulate, loving men. I wish the best to them and their family.
Loving this podcast.
Weston, Thank you for sharing your story. I believe you had a personal affirmation from the Holy Spirit. I served my mission from '96 -- '98. I had spiritual experiences before, on the mission and after. I got married and had two kids. Got into trouble and was excommunicated and divorced. Afterwards, anything I heard about truth I received affirmations from the light of Christ. Or when something is wrong, I feel that it is. I am Gay myself and do believe the Savior does love LGBTQ members. I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago. Looking back, I too had a hard time in school and on my mission. Even at work, I had allot and now realize I was given too much to do because I made my job look easy. Your story was great to listen to. Thank you. BTW - your insight about the Family Proclaimation makes sense.
I'm just glad that Weston's MP allowed him to go home. I tried to go home and mine refused to give me my passport. He had it locked away at the mission HQ
I don't even know how to express how much love you two deserve.
Thanks!
Awesome podcast! Thank you 🙏
Some of my favorite episodes are members who talk of their missionary experiences. Seems like there should be a recurring theme of Missionary Stories. They are so visible and known in greater society. Maybe have special guests from other denominations who also proselytize?
I worked with a girl who was saving money to go on a mission to South America for her church. They ran social programs to feed and house people. She was blown away when I told her that’s not what Mormon Missionaries do. I can never understand why the LDS Church doesn’t want to do this kind of thing. More effective than soccer baptisms to my mind
Wow! Wes Smith is a very impressive young man. The level of his intelligence, thoughtfulness, courage , etc., etc. are so high , they are off the charts. The whole time I wanted to reach thru my screen to give him a hug. ( His dad is more than ok too.) Thanks so much for making it possible for them to share themselves with us. This program is just awesome.
So wonderful seeing how Weston and his father came out of the emotional toxicicity of religion and are seemingly close now. Religion is so destructive.
I watched the first episode. I am one third into this episode. Weston's story, his knowing the truth of life versus the fairytale we strived to participate in as ADHD children (I never completely became an adult) gives me motivation to once again TRY. I am 66. My answer at his age, was to join the military. Nothing I did, no religion, no career, no music, no accomplishments ever validated me as a human, until my own father (as he was dying) made a statement about and to me recognizing me and my real goodness. Of course at that late age, I had basically no family structure to move forward with. The boost I got from my father, it lasted longer than anything else I had ever swung with in my life, but just like any swing, with no energy, it came to a stop. Mormon Stories Podcast has so much more to offer to any of us who are just trying to find a comfortable and meaningful "agenda" to attach ourselves to and continue on in this thing we call life. Even though I also lived in Utah, knew Mormon's, etc.... that only brought me to this channel.... I had no idea my curiosity would be so beneficial. ( I still can't get over how so many queer people get such awesome loopy curls )
Wow wow wow such a powerful story to listen to. I watch this video and it was mind-boggling to hear the truth. This young man is a powerhouse of a young man and I will be real. He’s got the biggest boys to speak out like that boy you’re not a boy you’re a real young man and you will be happy raising kids with your significant other. Have your boyfriend we need to start getting these influencers that influence the church through social The band family, Brock and Boston should really see these videos and handed these books any family that has young individuals that wanna do a mission let them read this and hopefully they’ll be enlightened and not go. Serve a mission.
Such a brave and eloquent young man
THANK YOU WESTON! You were so brave!
So powerful. I hope a lot of LGBQ still in the church see & hear this. I hate that we are hearing from those like Holland that they mourn & cry for the LGBQ community. It’s time to celebrate them, not mourn for them.
Thanks so much for sharing your story!
2:28:00 Maybe the Holy Ghost *is* gay. I mean, that whole theatrical coming down in the form of a dove thing is sort of flamboyant, isn't it?
Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the only one unforgivable sin. Just to let you know.
I've noticed that Weston is the happiest when he's talking about the Brazilian people
Hmm, easier to communicate in writing. I relate. I so relate.
From Australia Love you Weston
What a awesome dad!
Dear Wes, You are So Brave and Spiritual. Listen to that Spirit, You are on Your correct Path!! Gentle Blessings and Love to You♥️🙏♥️🙏♥️
Wow I am so impressed with Weston! And he’s what age? Did I hear correct that he’s 16? I am just shocked with his self awareness and ability to communicate. He is wise beyond his years. What a beautiful person. And there must be such love and trust between parents and the child because he spoke about things I’d still be uncomfortable talking about in front of my parents and I am 40. Also kudos to the father. It is so clear he loves his son immensely. You can tell by the way he looks at him and listens to what he says without interruption or judgement. Plus the fact that he can admit to his parenting mistakes and acknowledge what his son is saying and validate his feelings. That is so healing. I still wish my parents would do that and so do my siblings but we will probably wait forever.
He's 23 now I believe. He was 16 when he realized he was gay.
johns new favorite word “vibing” haha love
1:45:55 the biggest 5-head move I have ever heard!
Too awesome 😎
I really appreciate this interview. This Dad's support of his son is amazing and inspiring. Side note, I laughed out loud at the "gay Holy Ghost"😂😂😂😂
Healthy breaks for lunch 😋 very good, John. Very good indeed...
Bless both if you. 😊
Thank goodness you decided on therapy. Waited the whole session to hear that. So much pain for such a young man!
Am I the only one sitting here singing “turn it off” from the Book of Mormon musical?
Trey Parker and Matt Stone are the real deal.
John I prayed thousands of times to be changed from gay, but there was never a response from heaven
I don't know either of these people, but I'm (weirdly) proud of this young person for being brave enough to stand up to be himself in the face of severe social pressure to conform. And kudos to his family for being supportive of him. My family is from a high control group and we lost one of my young cousins to suicide. A few years later their sister told me it was because they were Trans and the family and God botherers the family subscribed to were not OK with that. It was garbage - no religious dogma is worth making someone feel so bad in their own skin that suicide becomes the only out they can see.
The Bishop is a good man and a good father, so much respect for both him and his handsome son. I also came out while I was quite young, 14 to be honest. I wish my father had been that supportive. He's not homophobic or anything like that, he's just not talkative.
Wonderful talk. I am a gay man and I have learned so much about what some have had to go through. I was a very straight acting, athletic teen so No One knew until I was outed at 28. Even today, while I am out, most people that know me have no idea. Cheers for enlightening me.
The Sam Harris quote I was reminded of from The End of Faith is, "While moderation in religion may seem a reasonable position to stake out, in light of all that we have (and have not) learned about the universe, it offers no bulwark against religious extremism and religious violence. From the perspective of those seeking to live by the letter of the texts, the religious moderate is nothing more than a failed fundamentalist. He is, in all likelihood, going to wind up in hell with the rest of the unbelievers... Religious moderation is the product of secular knowledge and scriptural ignorance - and it has no bona fides, in religious terms, to put it on a par with fundamentalism. The texts themselves are unequivocal: they are perfect in all their parts. By their light, religious moderation appears to be nothing more than an unwillingness to fully submit to God's law. By failing to live by the letter of the text, while tolerating the irrationality of those who do, religious moderates betray faith and reason equally."
I agree with Sam's assessment of religious moderation.
Such a wonderful story and I appreciate the participants so very much for speaking the truth about their experiences and the condemnation of the church and they're continued perseverance of gay and lesbian young people I have often said the reason why Utah ranks up to the top in suicide is because of the pressure of gay and lesbian children and I'm glad to see it finally being acknowledged a sad sad detrimental rank church should be more inclusive and understanding of these people they are human beings they did not choose to be this way they are and they are wonderful people the church needs to grow up and not be so controlling thank you both for your participation a wonderful discussion of your experience and how you came out of it for the most part good luck to you and your future
A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within' by a gay author...
My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE...
Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave.
The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist.
For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is.
Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment.
The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing.
The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence.
The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists.
Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’.
On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication.
For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything.
NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.
The fact that he used the word "leaked" when he was talking about the policy change says it all. The church tries to hide things from it's members. Of course they didn't want that information out for the general member's knowledge, because they knew they would get a lot of backlash from it, and that's why they had to reverse it eventually.
What an amazing father!
I am a Happy Former Mormon. Your labeling of religions like Mormonism as a "high maintenance religion" is so apropos.
I’m surprised that how absolutely mentally, physically and sexually abusive serving Mormon missions isn’t more widely known. I think that if the secular society knew the countless horror stories then things could change. The only thing the Mormon Church responds to is embarrassment. How many struggle with thoughts of self harm? It’s drilled into them to immediately get married upon their return home. And the pressure to complete that mission and make your parents and ward proud! Bully for you Dad and Mom to tell him he can come home with Love!
Thanks!
I am gaining so much from hearing this interview. As an inactive convert this is the reason I became inactive. I could not stand behind the stand the church had on human issues.
Interesting podcast. I found Weston very articulate. The one thing I would challenge him on-not everyone will see the world the same as you. Sometimes you need to accept others world view and still be kind and let them have their space. Acceptance goes both ways. I am shocked you went on the mission or stay in the Mormon church. You can help people outside of the Mormon religion.
I'm struggling with having my beloved daughter having a frightening issue to cope with. Her heart is difficult.
I know I can search, and sometimes it works easy, sometimes it doesn’t - I always feel like that UA-cam trying to distract us and make use spend more time/see something else and click. Anyway, where is part 1? A link in description or tagged card on the video would be AMAZING. i am avid UA-cam user and still can’t always make it show me what I want even though I know how it is titled or where it should be and that it does exist. 😅
Although I do believe porn has "addictive" aspects to it and I think it can negatively impact relationships, I see it similar to being addicted to social media or sugar. As someone who watched my little brother struggle with a heroin addiction for many years I do find that silly to compare it to a drug addiction. They aren't the same, and the church has no idea how offensive that is.. even comparing comparing nicotine is not at all the same.
Good job though, dad, on all the accountability you are taking. We as humans don't always do things the best way the first time but the self reflection and accountability is probably a huge aid in his healing from the shame and guilt he felt growing up.much love
Thanks! Accountability is scary sometimes, but feels good when embraced. And I agree that porn can be problematic for many reasons (including because much of it exploits vulnerable women). It can be compulsive. But the comparison to substance addiction is completely wrong, as you note (and sorry about the hardship your brother faced).
Weston is sure a handsome young man! What a great kid. Super glad his parents actually care about the needs of their kids! What a great family!
@Idaho Mom Reports ( Daybell Trial Coverage 2023) - Just like with women, one's exterior appearance has nothing to do with their inner self. It is a shallow value for you to have.
Weston Smith served his mission in Brazil. The current president of Brazil (Jair Bolsonaro) is openly and deeply homophobic. As an American, I do not know how well Bolsonaro's homophobia mirrors that of Brazilian society (UPDATE: Weston said that the Brazilians were less uptight than Americans. Good to hear.). I think Weston's mission president's advice about keeping his gayness to himself was sound advice. Other American missionaries might have reacted poorly, other Brazilian members and missionaries might have reacted poorly, and / or non-Mormon citizens of Brazil might have reacted poorly. Still in 2022, unfortunately, in many parts of the world it is still not safe for LGBT individuals. I live in the Pacific Northwest. Eastern WA and Northern Idaho are still places were it is potentially dangerous to be gay. If I am remembering correctly, not too long ago, north of Spokane WA, a gay high school student was murdered because he was gay. My adult daughter is part of the LGBT community and I advise her to be careful, because we live in a rural and close minded part of WA.
EDIT: The Brazilian missionaries sounded pretty laid back and cool.
Where in Washington if you don't mind me asking? We're moving to the greater tri- cities area in the new year.
@@mkpassey1 I am in Spokane, and I am from the Seattle area. I am unfamiliar with the tri-cities portion of the state.
Tendré que verlo después, ya que debe tener traductor habilitado, saludos
Weston absolutely got revelation from God through the Holy Spirit that his gay nature is divine, and that he should seek companionship in harmony with his orientation. Even though the LDS Church has many human leaders who are dead wrong about LGBT people, God is still real. God created us gay or LGBT, so it’s a divine nature. God is one thing, the church led by humans is another thing. Every gay or LGBT person who gets a heavenly manifestation that they are good, that God created them (us) this way, and that our nature is divine is getting true and pure revelation. Nothing in properly translated scripture and nothing in the non-canonized, non-doctrine family proclamation (lower case intentionally) prohibits gay or trans marriage, and nothing in them prohibits LGBT people living to the fullest measure of our creation. God made us LGBT and he wants us to thrive.
In the beginning God created male and female. He did not breath homosexuality into any of His children. People learn their sexual orientation by what they chose in their everyday life. They can make their own choices but they can’t chose their consequences. To be carnally minded is death but to be spiritually minded is eternal life. There are absolutes in Heavenly Fathers plan.
You are Loved! LGBTQ 🌈 children of God.