That's a great example why any kind of consequentialism (and utilitarianism) does not work: Yes, maybe by saving her she eventuelly suffers more. But you cannot know that in advance, and would have to cease any action at all, if avoiding suffering was your criteria for morality, since ANY action you take could lead to suffering, and be it 1000 years from now. What you do by saving her is giving her a chance and helping her to make a decision on her own, in other words: You give her occasion to become a moral person. She then takes that opportunity and freely choses morality. That makes this actually the morally best outcome possible and what further happens as a consequence has no ethical significance at all.
@@DarkLOREDash We only know the future after the fact. On an initial playthrough without a guide it isn't going to be possible to know these results. We get to know the whole story only because we've had the chance to explore all paths, which isn't possible for the characters themselves.
If you go to Korriban last and redeem her, she will go dantooine and find the crater and just leave, so I think, doing the planets in the correct order and redeeming her is the best way. killing her is the second best. Going to Korriban early and redeeming her is the worst thing you can do.
@@slothkng Indeed, but also Storywise it makes more sense leaving Korriban last. A place which is strong with the darkside, you wanna go there prepared and strong. You may argue that finding out you are actually Darth Revan can trigger old memories, and re-ignite your inner Sith Lord due to the Strong Dark Side there, (Kreia may had this reason when she tells you she cannot go outside) but He could also use this knowledge as an advantage, as now, knowing who you truly are, could bolster some confidence levels, making you more determined, and visit Korriban
Unless you redeem her AFTER the bombardment on Dantooine, in which case, she almost certainly went to a different Jedi enclave, such as the temple on Coruscant.
There is also a Twi'lek Jedi named Yadira Ban in The Old Republic mmo. It's possible that its descendant of Yuthura, but more likely a distant relative. Still, the possibility of her surviving Dantooine is there.
I still think redemption is the best option. Dying knowing there are people who cared about you and that you aren't consumed by your anger has to be the best option. Plus murdering her as revan does nothing for their personal story (light side) and leaving her alive in charge is by far the worst option
If the enclave is destroyed, it's not a fact that she will become a Jedi. Her master is dead, so maybe she would have chosen a quiet and peaceful life.
That’s why my head canon is that she becomes a “grey”. With no Jedi order to return to, she embarks on her own mission to accomplish her long-term goals
Yes. Where there is life there is hope. Her tale may not be over if you gave her a chance to live out her life in whatever manner that the game has allowed (ie redemption or continuing at the Academy). Whereas killing her removes that choice and extinguishes that hope. It might be a light side point chase, but I still do think redemption is the right choice for a Jedi playthrough.
I always redeem Yuthura, since I never play darkside runs lol. I understand that her time on Dantooine might have led to her untimely death among other Jedi who failed to escape, but can you really argue in good faith that she wouldn't have found an equally violent end simply staying among the Sith? At least there's always a chance she escaped, and now lives with hope in her heart. If not however, at least she was able to experience true compassion again, and found a friend who truly cares about what happens to her in us the player. Precognition or not, we're not given the choice to take on the entire Sith fleet, so the best thing I can do is help her find what little peace someone seeking redemption can hold onto.
The devs made an official story for KOTOR I, which means there's an official path with the planets. Korriban was the last planet they went to. Meaning if she was redeemed, she would have gone to Dantooine after the attack.
No I don’t think sparing her from a possibly painful end is more morally valuable than allowing her to redeem herself, I’m not convinced she was killed anyways i would think she’s at the same level as some of the counsel members
I always killed her during my adventures. And always became an ally with Uthar. This is the surest way, Darth Revan would have done just that. Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. Instead of making a fuss and trying to single-handedly destroy an entire academy, Revan would have simply enlisted their temporary support, and after Malak would have taken over from Korriban.
I love how you speak for a character that hasn't been established that deeply. You don't know his thought process. Stop acting like you're a twin and can tell what he would do step by step.
@@williamgeorge7492 In my opinion, you are very wrong. Yes, in KOTOR 1 Revan was in many ways a character that the player creates, but further, thanks to the brilliant KOTOR 2 and other sources, we will get to know Revan much deeper and better.
@@dream6562 It was destroyed, but according to Kreia, the Sith destroyed each other after learning of the fall of Malak's empire, so it is not a simple question
Jedi masters Dorak and Zhar also survived the bombardment. In kotor2 they were on Katarr when Nihilus consumed the planet. You can learn this by speaking to Visas.
Well when I redeem her korriban is the last planted I stop at, so the academy is already destroyed. So there would be no academy for her to return too. Lore wise I don't think this works but head canon she survives but probably doesn't return to being a Jedi.
The devs made an official story for KOTOR I, which means there's an official path with the planets. Korriban is actually the last planet they went to. Meaning if she was redeemed, she would have gone to Dantooine after the attack.
Sparing her has one thing the kill path lacks - Hope. Hope that she made it out, she survived. We have to see if the remake will update any models or corpses, dependant on quest choices.
Right? With the paths of sparing her, there is also a chance that she escaped before the attacks or before the Sith collapsed (hell for all we know, she decided to go free the slaves before returning to the Sith or Jedi, and hence why Vogga the Hutt was having difficulty finding a dancer)...
@@ProcyonDei The devs made an official story for KOTOR I, which means there's an official path with the planets. Korriban was the last planet they went to. Meaning if she was redeemed, she would have gone to Dantooine after the attack.
While optimal outcome is desiriable I think the right way to play the game is to assume the character can't see that far into the future.... unless you are doing a super meta play through. Thus you should pick best based on what you think the outcomes would be even if you know better.
🤔 There's a 4th option (Which I've done since 2003), get to know her well enough for her to call you friend, inform your master that she plans to betray him but not how, still put the device in his bed, and put poison in her bath, so they both go down without a much fight, just a single hit, save her, Then kill off the entire academy by yourself.
Well there was always that option to wipe out the Whole Academy as Revan, because in that Kreiya wouldn't know if Revan did it, b4 or after they were redeemed for the Light Side Ending, To which having a full academy full of students would be a threat to a both a Light Side or Dark Side Revan, an the ones who did survive were the ones at Malachor
Korriban is canonically the last planet Revan visits. If you let Yuthura go and set her on a different path, Dantooine’s already destroyed, she never goes there.
@@TopRanger237 Mira is okay but I feel like she doesn’t add any value to the play or plot. Yuthura would add a lot of Jedi/ dark Jedi vibes to the story ya feel? Think about the first time Visas was in your ebon Hawk. BIG SITH ENERGY
Everyone deserves an opportunity to right their wrongs. We can't ever be sure of the consequences of our actions. To me that is what Kreia really meant. Make a decision and stick to it but be humble enough in that process to admit that you cannot see all ends. She knew this best as she did learn to see parts of the future during her time on Malachor V
@@DarkLOREDash it is more than just some action game, the story telling and the meaning of things that didn't even explicitly said, so much things I'm amazed everytime you cover this kind of games thanks for this effort 👍😆
I am on my 5th XBOX copy, this one a sealed platinum hits. And I have played it thru since 2004 dozens of times, different levels, Dark/Light, ect. TBS released Big Z in the Gaming Greats line, gives me great hope for a Mission Vao! (TVC as well)
☠️ her quickly to prevent later more severe torture. Immediate Dark Side but more humane than later. One of the reasons I always enjoy ☠️ Malak so much. That and daring to think Himself Dark Lord of the Sith.
Yuthura Ban's descendant Yadira is in The Old Republic. So...that means she survives if you redeem her before Dantooine Academy is destroyed. ALSO.. you can redeem her AFTER the academy is destroyed as well, so then she likely just goes somewhere else :P So whether you save her before the Academy goes down, or after, she still survives. So it probably isn't the best option to kill her :P
If you want to be full light side you should play without as if without hindsight and redeem her. I kill her though even when playing the light side because I don't like people who're plotting and betraying even if they try to betray someone evil. If she wants something, she needs to fight for it openly without deception.
Interesting points. Foreknowledge changes how you weigh things a little bit. Apart from maybe the eternal undead scenario, an implied morality seems to be used, that being it is better to die swiftly as a villain than to die painfully or slowly as a redeemed individual. I tend to lean towards saving even if it means a "worse" outcome, simply because I will not be the one that murdered when given an opportunity to save them. It would seem I would then be obligated to kill all those I know will die a more painful death and that doesn't sound like a path anyone should go down. Since this kind of foreknowledge isn't as apparent as it is when replaying the game, the morality rests with the knowledge at hand in the present.
For me personally since I love KOTOR 1 so much, I played through it several times. When it came to Yuthura, I redeemed her first, because I was running the light side; killed her the second time because of the dark side play though and left her as mistress of the Sith academy in subsequent play throughs.
I loved the “turning Yuthura back to the Light” sub plot. If she met a sticky end on Dantooine, so be it. That was the will of the Force. Better she goes out that way then betrayed and raging.
I played Kotor 1 through in pretty much every way i could (minus as a scoundrel), but i never knew that Yuthura would go to Dantooine after we redeem her. I always figured that she would just go away from the playable zone (like how we should go to Coruscant, a place we can't go to, to place a complaint to Czerka's head office). My head cannon is that after we do Korriban last (Dantooine is already wrecked), Yuthura knows in advance that the place is a no-go so she leaves for a more peaceful part of the Galaxy...
The redemption allows her to make the choice herself. The repercussions are her own, not the players. For the Jedi, death is not the end, and by rejoining the light before her possible death she could go on in the Force. The repercussions of the "good" act would likewise be untraceable in the echos and lives around her as she chose to act in the light. Even Kreia's argument and example in KOTOR 2 of a good deed resulting in robbery of the one who received the money is narrow sighted for Kreia. The fact is doing the right thing when presented means not only do you have the strength to act but so do all the people who are like you. Behind the Bastards is a podcast that exams despicable people throughout history. In an 2 part epsiode last year they examined the "Little Nazis" the everyday workers, townspeople, craftment engineers who became Nazis. There was an extensive quote the host of the podcast read from one of these "Little Nazis". The man in question was an engineer. When he was looking for a job, he was denied any job unless he took the party oath. He refused, but the hiring officer said to take the day think about and come back the next day. The man went home considered the plight of his family if he didn't get the job, went back the next day and said he'd say the oath to get the job, but wouldn't believe it in his heart, and the hiring officer said that was fine. As a result of getting the job though, he was in a position to help some 200 Jews escape the Halocaust. However when talking about it after the war, he considered not the few live he helped save, but the millions he contributed to killing. If he had the bravery to stand up for what was right when the Nazis were taking power, then maybe all the men like him would have had the bravery to stand up against Nazism. The way the quote plays out is much more powerful than I can do it credit, but it's something that has stayed with me, especially with how the regressive right continues to get worse day by day. Choose to do the small goods to fight the small evils. If enough people take that to heart and see that take place, then what evil could survive? I enjoy these kinds of philosophical debates especially inspired by Star Wars.
Only a sith talks in absolutes. I chose the fourth option. Save Korriban for last. So it's after the leviathan attack, and then turn yathura to the light side
Personally, I believe the answer is quite simple, if the player's character saves Yuthura and redeems her, their own actions are genuinely good. The fact that it may result in a worse fate for Yuthura on Dantooine does not mean that the player should not choose the option that is genuinely good (if they are trying to do good). Because it is not the player character's fault that the Sith attack Dantooine, just as it is not the player character's fault for any of the evil actions of any of the other characters. Simply put, if other people are evil and commit evil acts, the responsibility for those actions is entirely on them, and makes THEM evil. Obviously this doesn't mean one should entirely discount the foreseeable potential harm that may be caused by evil acts committed by malicious actors. But one cannot simply allow those consequences to dictate their own actions if they wish to do good, or else the entire world (or in this case, galaxy) could indefinitely be held hostage by evil characters. Especially when unsavory characters usually retaliate against any resistance they encounter, and blame the results on those who resisted.
I always go to Korriban last as I get a giant kick running around and screaming at the Sith "I'M DARTH REVAN, YO", so I'm sure she'll be ok since Dantooine is already a giant crater by then.
In my headcannon, redeemed Yuthura helped during assault on Dantooine with civilian evacuation and fending off Sith Troops and Dark Jedi. She meet her end by Darth Malak.
I always off’d her. Forgiveness is such a long stretch for her, even for a Jedi. I usually run the KOTOR play throughs as a psychopath anyway, so her fate was always defaulted to death.
Lmao same and when I save ppl I just end up killing them just cuz 😂 it’s more fun being evil or if my team has anything to say I just tell them to shut up and follow me
Yuthuras fate as a jedi is still better than as a sith. A life with the dark side is a worse fate than dying, especially if before that death you got a chance to heal. Your attitude to morality confuses me.
Never knew you had a choice, I've played this game twice and both times the leader dude pitted me in a 1v1 with her to battle for his affection or some bullshit. I think once she offered to side with me to overthrow him and then still challenged me for my position as soon as I killed him.
I usually kill them both. I do the double cross to weaken them both, and set up mines along the acid pool. Nice and easy. Using the "force" to know where they are standing helps lots :)
Krei in KOTOR 2 blew my mind when I was a teenager. Surrounded by virtue signaling peers, hearing that kindness can make someone weaker actually changed the path of my life. -Apathy is Death-
Everything is possible, there is nothing there that is certain. Maybe if you do one of the options in a particular way in a different order something happens. It never says explicitly that she dies, was caught and suffered, or even survived the attack on Dantooine. What we do know, is that her master was so relieved to see that she yet lives that they broke down in tears. In that conversation she said it felt good to know she was missed. In killing her there is none of that. Life is suffering, it is also joy. To kill someone now so that they might not suffer later denies them of the joy as well. It robs them of any agency to formulate any decision for them to choose from. It says to them whatever choice you would make is the wrong one so, instead of trying to convince you or understand you I will simply kill you. Without knowing the outcome what will you choose? That is the question the game posts. But we do know the outcome. If spared, she chooses to try to do better. To me that is enough, the fact that you use your time to try to redeem yourself is worthy of that chance for redemption, no matter how fleeting.
I love these videos because they help me to find out all the outcomes I missed, I didn't even know you COULD redeem her, as I feared the south would betray me so I chose to fight them both rather than choose one lol
I am sure she would rather have been redeemed before her death; if it were inevitable. Her reunion with her master may have been worth what little added pain came from death by orbital bombardment.
My thoughts tend to be with taking both of the leaders of the academy out so is not to leave anyone's skilled enough to really train the people that remain but this is an interesting topic
All the playthroughs ive done over the years I never knew if you redeemed her you could find her back on dantooine. Guess I never really went back that often
If you redeem her after Dantooine's destruction, you can assume that she most definitely survives. I'm pretty sure Korriban is also supposed to be the last planet you visit, canonically.
I say redeem and the off-chance that she makes it. In Star Wars the Force is capable of much absurdity. Her escaping melex wrath and the bombing of dantooine is a possibility through with the force. Text-to-speech, sorry.
I'm pretty sure that canonically Revan and co visited Korriban last. This would mean that Yuthura's redemption occurred after the attack on Dantooine. So, in all likelihood, she would have traveled to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant instead.
We can't see the future. And despite the force, the player had no prior knowledge of the eventual fate of the sith on Korriban or the jedi on Dantoine. Even in hindsight, we still don't know for sure. In the context of doing what's "best" for Yuthura, killing her to spare her from dying later on makes no sense. I'm sure reuniting with her old master, returning to the light side, and eventually becoming one with the force would, for her, be worth many a hardship. Even dying of torture.
Do what you think is right. You're not supposed to account for all probabilities to make sure your actions result in the best possible outcome. You're supposed to do what's right for the moment. If you're faced with the choice of killing or sparing someone, then you're only responsible for that person's life at that moment, not later after you've left. Whether Ban lives or dies if she stays in the sith or jedi academy depends only on her ability to survive. Revan's not responsible for that. Revan can give her a chance, but what she does with that chance is only up to her.
Sparing her is the best option; there is nothing to be gained from killing her, and it spares her no pain to kill her then (as there is no evidence that, if you redeem her before Dantooine is destroyed, that she is singled out for special torture or execution). Just like how sparing any of the redeemable sith on Korriban is the right option. I do personally wish that there had been a scene on the star forge where the sith you redeemed on korriban actually help out during that final battle (taking the place of the Jedi who get killed during the 2nd cutscene, save that unlike those jedi, the redeemed sith win that fight & survive). Yuthura, Makel, Dustil, Kel Algwinn, & the rebel sith in the caves. Perhaps even Dak if you talked to him with Juhani).
I didn't get any dark side points because I killed both of the sith and everyone in the academy during the final trial.. Which is why the story of why everyone on Korriban is dead makes an odd bit more sense to me.
Considering korriban is canonically the last planet Revan goes to in his quest in kotor 1, redeeming her wouldn't have placed her on dantooine during the bombing. So all of this is a moot point anyway.
i find it funny how nobody recognizes your Revan with that armor piece he wore as the Dark Lord, it's like how blind are yall lol. anyway I've played this out in different ways, it just depends on how im feeling. but usually if kill one of them, i eliminate the other. because the way i look at it is, leaving one Sith master around only strengthens them. having said that i no longer kill Yuthura anymore, if i don't redeem her i usually just let her leave. but i think redeeming her is probably the best thing for her, because she doesn't strike me as someone that could lead the Sith. the rest of them would see her as a weakness. in some ways it's kinda understandable how she fell to the dark side, she didn't get the help she needed to cope with her feelings. the Jedi can be slow to react sometimes, that's how Juhanni nearly fell and would have if not for us. the thing about the Yuthura though, it's not easy to redeem her, because you need to have some pursuasion skill, i found the Scoundrel to be the easier way to go about it, they have the highest charisma skill out of any class, but to be the most successful i found playing as a Male is the easier route. because playing as a female, she doesn't open up as much. if your charisma skill is high enough and you play, 90% of the time it works for me. but as i said you gotta do alot. for example don't wait too long to go to Korriban, the earlier you go there, the better your chances of going back to Dantoine. usually i got to Kysshek first regardless if i decide to redeem Yuthura or let her go, so i can get Jolie, then i go to Korriban, but only if i intend to redeem her. if im not in the mood to do all that, then you can play it out as you wish. now there's an interesting lore out there, that even if you don't redeem her and let her live, Yuthura somehow survives Korriban. but there's been no proof of that, plus when you think about how the Sith operate, only a strong leader can unite the Sith. leaving Yuthura to the dark side, i can see the academy eventually turn on her. now what we do know about Korriban is what Kreia talks about, the fall and what happened after Revan left. depending on your ending if you went dark side ending or light, she bring up a few things, but the main point was that the Academy fell apart. maybe Yuthura had some cut content.
Sleheyron (her home planet) was intended to be in the game, but was cut. I’d say that if you redeemed her, there would be some content there regarding her that ended up getting cut.
I usually play Korriban last. What's to say that if she redeems herself that she won't survive? Dantooine is destroyed while you're on your last planet anyway.
I feel like if you do Korribon first then, the best course of action for Yuthura's fate is to kill her on your own terms maybe then she can rest in peace without betrayel or execution from the sith.
If the argument is to kill her to spare her dying on Dantooine, then letting her live at all is also the wrong choice, cuz the Academy implodes after Kotor 1, the Sith turn on each other and it’s implied nobody survives, including Yuthura. Basically she’s dead no matter what you do
You didn't take into account that you actually may help her be redeemed and don't die on Dantuin, if you go to the Corriban at last, already after the Dantuin's bombardment.
Well, if she is truly redeemed then if she dies she joins the other jedi in the force. Right? So either way, old age or a huge laser blast, her afterlife is secured. But...if she isn't redeemed, then yes you are right, that is a horrible fate. Either sent to some dark dimension or, worse, hanging around as an angry, tortured spirit for eternity. 😬 the quickness of her death does not change her destination. Thus, being redeemed and welcomed back on dantooine would give her the greatest chance at a peaceful, final rest.
Yeah, I've been playing kotor for the past month, i knew about the lore but never played the game till now and im finally facing malak in the star forge after i redeem bastila. I did korriban last and redeemed yuthra, but then once i redeem her i had to go through and fight the entire sith academy. I slaughtered them all, they didn't give me much of a choice they came at me and so they all had to go. I've been playing as the good guy, but when i finish the game I'm gonna go in for a second play and just be evil. Oh its gonna be so good to be bad, then after that im gonna play kotor 2. Man I'm gonna be busy for the next couple of months. 😆👍
I did find it odd all the Jedi from the academy LOOK THE EXACT SAME. When the remake comes out, I worry about seeing familiar faces from the academy and knowing who truly fell.
That's called meta gaming in RPG. You use your knowledge out of your character to make decisions, like knowing rules, what follows etc. In Kotor you can't make this decision when you play first time, and even later what happens to Yuthura is only hypothesis. Surely it's no better for her if you kill her right away...lol
Redeemed Yuthura Ban survives given that her descendant Yadira Ban is the boss battle in the Black Talon flashpoint in SWTOR.
Huh, now I feel bad for killing her so much.....all those alignment runs
@@nomadoma9422 Who would win
Level 50 Jedi Master
Some random padawan on a ship
@@historicflame972 *You aren't going to win this... I swear it*
Probably a distant family member
@@kaiserstorm886or just some random person because not everybody needs to be related to someone
That's a great example why any kind of consequentialism (and utilitarianism) does not work: Yes, maybe by saving her she eventuelly suffers more. But you cannot know that in advance, and would have to cease any action at all, if avoiding suffering was your criteria for morality, since ANY action you take could lead to suffering, and be it 1000 years from now.
What you do by saving her is giving her a chance and helping her to make a decision on her own, in other words: You give her occasion to become a moral person. She then takes that opportunity and freely choses morality. That makes this actually the morally best outcome possible and what further happens as a consequence has no ethical significance at all.
This is true, however, as the player we do know the future & can annex that into our decision making
@@DarkLOREDash From that perspective non of this is real anyway and no one is suffering at all.
@@DarkLOREDash We only know the future after the fact. On an initial playthrough without a guide it isn't going to be possible to know these results. We get to know the whole story only because we've had the chance to explore all paths, which isn't possible for the characters themselves.
Agreed
@@garnauklaufen6704 except the fictional characters
If you go to Korriban last and redeem her, she will go dantooine and find the crater and just leave, so I think, doing the planets in the correct order and redeeming her is the best way. killing her is the second best. Going to Korriban early and redeeming her is the worst thing you can do.
exactly this Korriban is supposed to be last especially after Bastila tells you she couldn't be seen there they're giving you a hint lol
That’s what I always did
@@slothkng Indeed, but also Storywise it makes more sense leaving Korriban last. A place which is strong with the darkside, you wanna go there prepared and strong. You may argue that finding out you are actually Darth Revan can trigger old memories, and re-ignite your inner Sith Lord due to the Strong Dark Side there, (Kreia may had this reason when she tells you she cannot go outside) but He could also use this knowledge as an advantage, as now, knowing who you truly are, could bolster some confidence levels, making you more determined, and visit Korriban
@@slothkng yup. I always left Korriban last, yuthura always survives, happy ending for everyone, may the force be with us 😋
The planets can be done in whatever order ppl want stfu
Unless you redeem her AFTER the bombardment on Dantooine, in which case, she almost certainly went to a different Jedi enclave, such as the temple on Coruscant.
Which would probably be a mistake lol .
That bunch DESERVED to be consumed lol
What's a mistake?
There is also a Twi'lek Jedi named Yadira Ban in The Old Republic mmo. It's possible that its descendant of Yuthura, but more likely a distant relative. Still, the possibility of her surviving Dantooine is there.
I still think redemption is the best option. Dying knowing there are people who cared about you and that you aren't consumed by your anger has to be the best option. Plus murdering her as revan does nothing for their personal story (light side) and leaving her alive in charge is by far the worst option
Her fate still remains open if you turn her to the light side after the bombardment of Dantooine.
True. Bad odds though when the wiki states that only a handful of jedi survived
If the enclave is destroyed, it's not a fact that she will become a Jedi. Her master is dead, so maybe she would have chosen a quiet and peaceful life.
@@inhostemomnialicita1535 I picture her path similar to Mira, where they wander for a time, but they end up finding a place where they're needed most.
That’s why my head canon is that she becomes a “grey”. With no Jedi order to return to, she embarks on her own mission to accomplish her long-term goals
Yes. Where there is life there is hope. Her tale may not be over if you gave her a chance to live out her life in whatever manner that the game has allowed (ie redemption or continuing at the Academy). Whereas killing her removes that choice and extinguishes that hope. It might be a light side point chase, but I still do think redemption is the right choice for a Jedi playthrough.
I always redeem Yuthura, since I never play darkside runs lol. I understand that her time on Dantooine might have led to her untimely death among other Jedi who failed to escape, but can you really argue in good faith that she wouldn't have found an equally violent end simply staying among the Sith? At least there's always a chance she escaped, and now lives with hope in her heart. If not however, at least she was able to experience true compassion again, and found a friend who truly cares about what happens to her in us the player. Precognition or not, we're not given the choice to take on the entire Sith fleet, so the best thing I can do is help her find what little peace someone seeking redemption can hold onto.
also if you redeem her after the destruction of dantooine it means that she was never there to begin with which makes redeeming her the better option.
No ds runs? Your weakness disgusts me!
@@D00RYA Not getting flamed by Kazuya Mishima himself 😭😭
Always wanted Yuthura as a companion after killing Juhani. but nope I got an empty slot.
The devs made an official story for KOTOR I, which means there's an official path with the planets. Korriban was the last planet they went to. Meaning if she was redeemed, she would have gone to Dantooine after the attack.
No I don’t think sparing her from a possibly painful end is more morally valuable than allowing her to redeem herself, I’m not convinced she was killed anyways i would think she’s at the same level as some of the counsel members
I always killed her during my adventures. And always became an ally with Uthar. This is the surest way, Darth Revan would have done just that. Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. Instead of making a fuss and trying to single-handedly destroy an entire academy, Revan would have simply enlisted their temporary support, and after Malak would have taken over from Korriban.
I love how you speak for a character that hasn't been established that deeply. You don't know his thought process. Stop acting like you're a twin and can tell what he would do step by step.
@@williamgeorge7492 tell me you don't play SWTOR without saying you don't play SWOTR.
next thing, you're going to tell me Revan wasa female
@@williamgeorge7492
In my opinion, you are very wrong. Yes, in KOTOR 1 Revan was in many ways a character that the player creates, but further, thanks to the brilliant KOTOR 2 and other sources, we will get to know Revan much deeper and better.
@@afaf9509 I mean lore wise it was established that reven helped the jedi, so I think the academy was destroyed imo
@@dream6562 It was destroyed, but according to Kreia, the Sith destroyed each other after learning of the fall of Malak's empire, so it is not a simple question
I wanted a romance option with her :3
Agree. Love the name
Jedi masters Dorak and Zhar also survived the bombardment. In kotor2 they were on Katarr when Nihilus consumed the planet. You can learn this by speaking to Visas.
Vrook also mentions that they were on Katarr
Well when I redeem her korriban is the last planted I stop at, so the academy is already destroyed. So there would be no academy for her to return too. Lore wise I don't think this works but head canon she survives but probably doesn't return to being a Jedi.
She probably does return she can go to another Jedi location
The devs made an official story for KOTOR I, which means there's an official path with the planets. Korriban is actually the last planet they went to. Meaning if she was redeemed, she would have gone to Dantooine after the attack.
Sparing her has one thing the kill path lacks - Hope. Hope that she made it out, she survived.
We have to see if the remake will update any models or corpses, dependant on quest choices.
Right? With the paths of sparing her, there is also a chance that she escaped before the attacks or before the Sith collapsed (hell for all we know, she decided to go free the slaves before returning to the Sith or Jedi, and hence why Vogga the Hutt was having difficulty finding a dancer)...
@@ProcyonDei Hey, nice connection.
@@ProcyonDei The devs made an official story for KOTOR I, which means there's an official path with the planets. Korriban was the last planet they went to. Meaning if she was redeemed, she would have gone to Dantooine after the attack.
She should have been recruited and replace Shan when Malak captures her. That lower body is prime ig fitness girl content..
While optimal outcome is desiriable I think the right way to play the game is to assume the character can't see that far into the future.... unless you are doing a super meta play through. Thus you should pick best based on what you think the outcomes would be even if you know better.
100% rpgs are about character creation and experience, meta omniscient playthroughs are never as fun imo
right the game is supposed to feel like conversations not puzzles
🤔 There's a 4th option (Which I've done since 2003), get to know her well enough for her to call you friend, inform your master that she plans to betray him but not how, still put the device in his bed, and put poison in her bath, so they both go down without a much fight, just a single hit, save her, Then kill off the entire academy by yourself.
I need to research this. I don't think I ever realized I could do either thing. Thank you!
Well there was always that option to wipe out the Whole Academy as Revan, because in that Kreiya wouldn't know if Revan did it, b4 or after they were redeemed for the Light Side Ending,
To which having a full academy full of students would be a threat to a both a Light Side or Dark Side Revan, an the ones who did survive were the ones at Malachor
Poisoning both then laying waste to the academy was the most fun option
??
Redeem after Dantooine's bombardment so she would not die in the bombardment and could stand a fighting chance of survival.
Korriban is canonically the last planet Revan visits. If you let Yuthura go and set her on a different path, Dantooine’s already destroyed, she never goes there.
I wish she had escaped the Jedi Enclave and was a party member in KOTOR II instead Mira 🙄
Wow, that would be badass
@@DarkLOREDash I’m SAYING! Nice vid btw
Mira was a good chacther if you ask me
@@TopRanger237 Mira is okay but I feel like she doesn’t add any value to the play or plot. Yuthura would add a lot of Jedi/ dark Jedi vibes to the story ya feel? Think about the first time Visas was in your ebon Hawk. BIG SITH ENERGY
Yuthura’s death was an absolute point in time, unchangeable regardless of the outcome
Obviously the best course of action is to redeem her after you get captured by Saul, so do Korriban last. That way Dantooine is already destroyed.
I just want another KOTOR...
I have a vague memory that you can trick Uthar and Yuthura into killing each other... Am I misremembering?
You have a good memory, and it is so fun to do!
Everyone deserves an opportunity to right their wrongs. We can't ever be sure of the consequences of our actions. To me that is what Kreia really meant. Make a decision and stick to it but be humble enough in that process to admit that you cannot see all ends. She knew this best as she did learn to see parts of the future during her time on Malachor V
I am amazed that you still care soooo much of this game, i just came back to the game and this add more interesting things as i play
This game is so layered 😍
@@DarkLOREDash it is more than just some action game, the story telling and the meaning of things that didn't even explicitly said, so much things I'm amazed everytime you cover this kind of games thanks for this effort 👍😆
I am on my 5th XBOX copy, this one a sealed platinum hits. And I have played it thru since 2004 dozens of times, different levels, Dark/Light, ect.
TBS released Big Z in the Gaming Greats line, gives me great hope for a Mission Vao! (TVC as well)
I love how each and every Jedi looks exactly the same. Neat.
What do you mean, you people?
@@DarkLOREDash You know what I said, *boy*
☠️ her quickly to prevent later more severe torture. Immediate Dark Side but more humane than later. One of the reasons I always enjoy ☠️ Malak so much. That and daring to think Himself Dark Lord of the Sith.
Yuthura Ban's descendant Yadira is in The Old Republic. So...that means she survives if you redeem her before Dantooine Academy is destroyed. ALSO.. you can redeem her AFTER the academy is destroyed as well, so then she likely just goes somewhere else :P So whether you save her before the Academy goes down, or after, she still survives. So it probably isn't the best option to kill her :P
If you want to be full light side you should play without as if without hindsight and redeem her. I kill her though even when playing the light side because I don't like people who're plotting and betraying even if they try to betray someone evil. If she wants something, she needs to fight for it openly without deception.
I didn't like either but she was pretty twi'lek so I she won.
I think canonically she is spared/redeemed since a character named ‘Yadira Ban’ exists in SWTOR
Interesting points. Foreknowledge changes how you weigh things a little bit. Apart from maybe the eternal undead scenario, an implied morality seems to be used, that being it is better to die swiftly as a villain than to die painfully or slowly as a redeemed individual. I tend to lean towards saving even if it means a "worse" outcome, simply because I will not be the one that murdered when given an opportunity to save them. It would seem I would then be obligated to kill all those I know will die a more painful death and that doesn't sound like a path anyone should go down.
Since this kind of foreknowledge isn't as apparent as it is when replaying the game, the morality rests with the knowledge at hand in the present.
For me personally since I love KOTOR 1 so much, I played through it several times. When it came to Yuthura, I redeemed her first, because I was running the light side; killed her the second time because of the dark side play though and left her as mistress of the Sith academy in subsequent play throughs.
Isn't her descendant the jedi boss lady in the black talon mission on SWTOR.
Same surname, yeah!
Just had to stop by and comment on how much the thumbnail caught me off guard. Good job 😅
I loved the “turning Yuthura back to the Light” sub plot. If she met a sticky end on Dantooine, so be it. That was the will of the Force. Better she goes out that way then betrayed and raging.
I played Kotor 1 through in pretty much every way i could (minus as a scoundrel), but i never knew that Yuthura would go to Dantooine after we redeem her. I always figured that she would just go away from the playable zone (like how we should go to Coruscant, a place we can't go to, to place a complaint to Czerka's head office). My head cannon is that after we do Korriban last (Dantooine is already wrecked), Yuthura knows in advance that the place is a no-go so she leaves for a more peaceful part of the Galaxy...
The redemption allows her to make the choice herself. The repercussions are her own, not the players. For the Jedi, death is not the end, and by rejoining the light before her possible death she could go on in the Force. The repercussions of the "good" act would likewise be untraceable in the echos and lives around her as she chose to act in the light. Even Kreia's argument and example in KOTOR 2 of a good deed resulting in robbery of the one who received the money is narrow sighted for Kreia. The fact is doing the right thing when presented means not only do you have the strength to act but so do all the people who are like you.
Behind the Bastards is a podcast that exams despicable people throughout history. In an 2 part epsiode last year they examined the "Little Nazis" the everyday workers, townspeople, craftment engineers who became Nazis. There was an extensive quote the host of the podcast read from one of these "Little Nazis". The man in question was an engineer. When he was looking for a job, he was denied any job unless he took the party oath. He refused, but the hiring officer said to take the day think about and come back the next day. The man went home considered the plight of his family if he didn't get the job, went back the next day and said he'd say the oath to get the job, but wouldn't believe it in his heart, and the hiring officer said that was fine. As a result of getting the job though, he was in a position to help some 200 Jews escape the Halocaust. However when talking about it after the war, he considered not the few live he helped save, but the millions he contributed to killing. If he had the bravery to stand up for what was right when the Nazis were taking power, then maybe all the men like him would have had the bravery to stand up against Nazism. The way the quote plays out is much more powerful than I can do it credit, but it's something that has stayed with me, especially with how the regressive right continues to get worse day by day.
Choose to do the small goods to fight the small evils. If enough people take that to heart and see that take place, then what evil could survive?
I enjoy these kinds of philosophical debates especially inspired by Star Wars.
We must always consider where our actions will take us in the afterlife, even if we are not saved by works, our works have lasting consequences...
You forgot the last option. Keep as a side piece. Twi’leks are better than human choices anyway.
Love ❤️
Only a sith talks in absolutes. I chose the fourth option. Save Korriban for last. So it's after the leviathan attack, and then turn yathura to the light side
Thought I’d add that there is her decedent in swtor Yadira Ban, who is a Jedi. It may not indicate that she was redeemed, but still.
Love this KOTOR content please keep making it
Thanks! I love it too
Personally, I believe the answer is quite simple, if the player's character saves Yuthura and redeems her, their own actions are genuinely good. The fact that it may result in a worse fate for Yuthura on Dantooine does not mean that the player should not choose the option that is genuinely good (if they are trying to do good). Because it is not the player character's fault that the Sith attack Dantooine, just as it is not the player character's fault for any of the evil actions of any of the other characters. Simply put, if other people are evil and commit evil acts, the responsibility for those actions is entirely on them, and makes THEM evil. Obviously this doesn't mean one should entirely discount the foreseeable potential harm that may be caused by evil acts committed by malicious actors. But one cannot simply allow those consequences to dictate their own actions if they wish to do good, or else the entire world (or in this case, galaxy) could indefinitely be held hostage by evil characters. Especially when unsavory characters usually retaliate against any resistance they encounter, and blame the results on those who resisted.
Hidden enclave of the jedi, suddenly malak remembered it existed and went to destroy it. Because reasons.
I am pretty sure it's the Jedi bullshitting the player character
I always go to Korriban last as I get a giant kick running around and screaming at the Sith "I'M DARTH REVAN, YO", so I'm sure she'll be ok since Dantooine is already a giant crater by then.
cant wait to play this again
Fatalistic nihilism is a crutch. The world is going to end some day, but that's no reason not to make it as good as you can today.
But if she was on korriban, she may have had a better survival chance. According to kotor 2
hm, I wonder how the story canonicaly transitions from Yuthura Ban in KOTOR to the Jedi Padawan Yadira Ban in TOR...
In my headcannon, redeemed Yuthura helped during assault on Dantooine with civilian evacuation and fending off Sith Troops and Dark Jedi. She meet her end by Darth Malak.
How about option D? Force her to enter into a life debt and force her to fight for me.
I always off’d her. Forgiveness is such a long stretch for her, even for a Jedi. I usually run the KOTOR play throughs as a psychopath anyway, so her fate was always defaulted to death.
Lmao same and when I save ppl I just end up killing them just cuz 😂 it’s more fun being evil or if my team has anything to say I just tell them to shut up and follow me
@@jovaniealicea8829 Cringe
@@macklinbutcher3145 how is it cringe? U can play the game however u want lol
Lore dash l am here before you, the graphics and the story line and the story line is so good thank you so very much 😀 😊
This was soooooooo good! Also I love ur Revan impression!
I don't see any rapport between Yuthura and what did happen in Kotor 2. Darth Nihilus is lord of hunger without Yuthuira to annihilate jedis'Dantouine
Yuthuras fate as a jedi is still better than as a sith. A life with the dark side is a worse fate than dying, especially if before that death you got a chance to heal. Your attitude to morality confuses me.
Never knew you had a choice, I've played this game twice and both times the leader dude pitted me in a 1v1 with her to battle for his affection or some bullshit. I think once she offered to side with me to overthrow him and then still challenged me for my position as soon as I killed him.
This video kinda seems pointless, I hardly find this a reason to not save her. She could still have survived.
I usually kill them both. I do the double cross to weaken them both, and set up mines along the acid pool. Nice and easy. Using the "force" to know where they are standing helps lots :)
Krei in KOTOR 2 blew my mind when I was a teenager. Surrounded by virtue signaling peers, hearing that kindness can make someone weaker actually changed the path of my life.
-Apathy is Death-
Diggin the vids brotha 👌, subbed
Thank you, sir!
Everything is possible, there is nothing there that is certain. Maybe if you do one of the options in a particular way in a different order something happens. It never says explicitly that she dies, was caught and suffered, or even survived the attack on Dantooine. What we do know, is that her master was so relieved to see that she yet lives that they broke down in tears. In that conversation she said it felt good to know she was missed. In killing her there is none of that. Life is suffering, it is also joy. To kill someone now so that they might not suffer later denies them of the joy as well. It robs them of any agency to formulate any decision for them to choose from. It says to them whatever choice you would make is the wrong one so, instead of trying to convince you or understand you I will simply kill you. Without knowing the outcome what will you choose? That is the question the game posts. But we do know the outcome. If spared, she chooses to try to do better. To me that is enough, the fact that you use your time to try to redeem yourself is worthy of that chance for redemption, no matter how fleeting.
In Canon, I think Korriban was the last star map Revan visited. By that point, Dantooine had been destroyed already.
I love these videos because they help me to find out all the outcomes I missed, I didn't even know you COULD redeem her, as I feared the south would betray me so I chose to fight them both rather than choose one lol
I like the logic 😏
Good… good…
I am sure she would rather have been redeemed before her death; if it were inevitable. Her reunion with her master may have been worth what little added pain came from death by orbital bombardment.
My thoughts tend to be with taking both of the leaders of the academy out so is not to leave anyone's skilled enough to really train the people that remain but this is an interesting topic
All the playthroughs ive done over the years I never knew if you redeemed her you could find her back on dantooine. Guess I never really went back that often
ive used a mod that lets you recruit yuthura as a party member after her redemption. I LOVE HER.
What? Who was replaced?
If you redeem her after Dantooine's destruction, you can assume that she most definitely survives. I'm pretty sure Korriban is also supposed to be the last planet you visit, canonically.
I say redeem and the off-chance that she makes it. In Star Wars the Force is capable of much absurdity. Her escaping melex wrath and the bombing of dantooine is a possibility through with the force. Text-to-speech, sorry.
Hell I mean Calo Nord survived Taris and so did Deadeye Duncan lol
I'm pretty sure that canonically Revan and co visited Korriban last. This would mean that Yuthura's redemption occurred after the attack on Dantooine. So, in all likelihood, she would have traveled to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant instead.
She survives, we meet her descendant on the old republic
We can't see the future.
And despite the force, the player had no prior knowledge of the eventual fate of the sith on Korriban or the jedi on Dantoine. Even in hindsight, we still don't know for sure.
In the context of doing what's "best" for Yuthura, killing her to spare her from dying later on makes no sense. I'm sure reuniting with her old master, returning to the light side, and eventually becoming one with the force would, for her, be worth many a hardship. Even dying of torture.
Do what you think is right. You're not supposed to account for all probabilities to make sure your actions result in the best possible outcome. You're supposed to do what's right for the moment. If you're faced with the choice of killing or sparing someone, then you're only responsible for that person's life at that moment, not later after you've left. Whether Ban lives or dies if she stays in the sith or jedi academy depends only on her ability to survive. Revan's not responsible for that. Revan can give her a chance, but what she does with that chance is only up to her.
what a beautifully dark thought, i like it , very nice vid.
Sparing her is the best option; there is nothing to be gained from killing her, and it spares her no pain to kill her then (as there is no evidence that, if you redeem her before Dantooine is destroyed, that she is singled out for special torture or execution). Just like how sparing any of the redeemable sith on Korriban is the right option.
I do personally wish that there had been a scene on the star forge where the sith you redeemed on korriban actually help out during that final battle (taking the place of the Jedi who get killed during the 2nd cutscene, save that unlike those jedi, the redeemed sith win that fight & survive). Yuthura, Makel, Dustil, Kel Algwinn, & the rebel sith in the caves. Perhaps even Dak if you talked to him with Juhani).
By b my dear lord dash l have Just been reborn again great video thanks lore dash 😘
I just use the Yuthura and Uthar conflict against them, and killed them both, I didn't know she could be save
I didn't get any dark side points because I killed both of the sith and everyone in the academy during the final trial.. Which is why the story of why everyone on Korriban is dead makes an odd bit more sense to me.
Seems like the best option is to play koriban last after dantooine is destroyed and then convince her to leave.
I always defeated yuthura and her master. Was always fun going through the academy owning the sith students hehe.
If I was Malak. First place I'd destroy is the jedi enclave. That's just me tho.
Huh, I just killed her and her master together, didn’t know there’s a whole new part
Considering korriban is canonically the last planet Revan goes to in his quest in kotor 1, redeeming her wouldn't have placed her on dantooine during the bombing. So all of this is a moot point anyway.
i find it funny how nobody recognizes your Revan with that armor piece he wore as the Dark Lord, it's like how blind are yall lol.
anyway I've played this out in different ways, it just depends on how im feeling. but usually if kill one of them, i eliminate the other.
because the way i look at it is, leaving one Sith master around only strengthens them.
having said that i no longer kill Yuthura anymore, if i don't redeem her i usually just let her leave.
but i think redeeming her is probably the best thing for her, because she doesn't strike me as someone that could lead the Sith. the rest of them would see her as a weakness.
in some ways it's kinda understandable how she fell to the dark side,
she didn't get the help she needed to cope with her feelings. the Jedi can be slow to react sometimes, that's how Juhanni nearly fell and would have if not for us.
the thing about the Yuthura though, it's not easy to redeem her,
because you need to have some pursuasion skill, i found the Scoundrel to be the easier way to go about it, they have the highest charisma skill out of any class,
but to be the most successful i found playing as a Male is the easier route.
because playing as a female, she doesn't open up as much.
if your charisma skill is high enough and you play, 90% of the time it works for me.
but as i said you gotta do alot.
for example don't wait too long to go to Korriban,
the earlier you go there, the better your chances of going back to Dantoine.
usually i got to Kysshek first regardless if i decide to redeem Yuthura or let her go,
so i can get Jolie, then i go to Korriban, but only if i intend to redeem her.
if im not in the mood to do all that, then you can play it out as you wish.
now there's an interesting lore out there, that even if you don't redeem her and let her live,
Yuthura somehow survives Korriban. but there's been no proof of that,
plus when you think about how the Sith operate, only a strong leader can unite the Sith.
leaving Yuthura to the dark side, i can see the academy eventually turn on her.
now what we do know about Korriban is what Kreia talks about,
the fall and what happened after Revan left. depending on your ending if you went dark side ending or light, she bring up a few things, but the main point was that the Academy fell apart.
maybe Yuthura had some cut content.
Sleheyron (her home planet) was intended to be in the game, but was cut. I’d say that if you redeemed her, there would be some content there regarding her that ended up getting cut.
Best way to handle things is to kill every one in sith academy, including yuthura. You shuld do it for both light side and dark side playthrough.
I usually play Korriban last. What's to say that if she redeems herself that she won't survive? Dantooine is destroyed while you're on your last planet anyway.
I feel like if you do Korribon first then, the best course of action for Yuthura's fate is to kill her on your own terms maybe then she can rest in peace without betrayel or execution from the sith.
If the argument is to kill her to spare her dying on Dantooine, then letting her live at all is also the wrong choice, cuz the Academy implodes after Kotor 1, the Sith turn on each other and it’s implied nobody survives, including Yuthura. Basically she’s dead no matter what you do
You didn't take into account that you actually may help her be redeemed and don't die on Dantuin, if you go to the Corriban at last, already after the Dantuin's bombardment.
Technically if you go to Koriban last then she never went to dantoine and didn’t die or get captured necessarily.
Well, if she is truly redeemed then if she dies she joins the other jedi in the force. Right? So either way, old age or a huge laser blast, her afterlife is secured.
But...if she isn't redeemed, then yes you are right, that is a horrible fate. Either sent to some dark dimension or, worse, hanging around as an angry, tortured spirit for eternity. 😬 the quickness of her death does not change her destination.
Thus, being redeemed and welcomed back on dantooine would give her the greatest chance at a peaceful, final rest.
She dies either way. I didn’t hear a reason one way or the other for killing her or not
Korriban was outlined as perhaps her best chance. Or a quick death vs what malak offered
Yeah, I've been playing kotor for the past month, i knew about the lore but never played the game till now and im finally facing malak in the star forge after i redeem bastila. I did korriban last and redeemed yuthra, but then once i redeem her i had to go through and fight the entire sith academy. I slaughtered them all, they didn't give me much of a choice they came at me and so they all had to go. I've been playing as the good guy, but when i finish the game I'm gonna go in for a second play and just be evil. Oh its gonna be so good to be bad, then after that im gonna play kotor 2. Man I'm gonna be busy for the next couple of months. 😆👍
Im jealous to not get to experience that dark side run for the first time, again 😫
Maybe she wasn't accepted back into the Jedi order and left Dantooine before it was attacked.
I did find it odd all the Jedi from the academy LOOK THE EXACT SAME. When the remake comes out, I worry about seeing familiar faces from the academy and knowing who truly fell.
That's called meta gaming in RPG. You use your knowledge out of your character to make decisions, like knowing rules, what follows etc. In Kotor you can't make this decision when you play first time, and even later what happens to Yuthura is only hypothesis. Surely it's no better for her if you kill her right away...lol
I didn't realize you could even redeem her.
Neither did I, for ages ua-cam.com/video/lTt2z-RcphA/v-deo.html