Hope you enjoyed the video! If you want to learn even then you can watch my full length coaching sessions over on my Patreon www.patreon.com/c/CoachRogue
But you will take advantsge of it if you watch pro play, since more chances to roam, give us more action in early game and that results in more engaging games to watch
Call it the triangle method (not the one CoreJJ talked about, but perhaps a macro-oriented extension of it). After you clear a wave, draw a triangle on the minimap between the enemy's next wave's current position, your current position, and where the waves will meet. If an enemy champ is in the triangle as the waves meet, you've given them prio. As long as the longest leg in the triangle is the one between the wave and the meeting spot, you're guaranteed to be able to contest the wave. The longer you let an enemy champ into your triangle, the more you're giving up for your play. However, if both you and your opponent aren't contesting the wave (due to resets, committing to cross-map, etc.), then the state of your triangle is as good as the state of the wave (pushing into you is good).
@@nightwave6963infinite sum of inberse potencies of 2 = 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 +... = 2. Then sum of two converging series is the sum of the two values thus 2+ 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 +... = 4 I guess
i was wondering why there were adcs and farmers mid. i just recently started playing again and was still roaming because i thought that was the play lol
Saying that _this_ is the reason for ADC mids is an exaggeration. Sure, it may be part of it, but the primary reason was the AP jungle meta enabled by Fated Ashes and Liandry's, which lasted a very long time. Worlds was played while the change was still in effect, and the only AD mid in the top 5 by presence was Yone because he was absurdly OP.
@@maleldil1 Yone was played because he had all the advantages of an ADC midlaner without their downsides (which is already close to none to begin with). The addition of absorb life made sustain setups way too obnoxious in general, and it doesn't help that roaming was unviable.
The minion speed change happened in 13.10 and ADC mid didn’t become meta until 14.10. That’s a whole year in between the changes, so this literally has nothing to do with mid ADCs becoming strong.
@@TynoNyuhn Mid ADCs weren't meta because they didn't have the ultimate "fk your poke" setup. Both absorb life and minion speed change contributed to the meta.
I just discovered your content and I truly believe you were the creator I needed to understand concepts to push me from diamond to masters. What a phenomenal channel
I didn't know this change was in effect until about a week ago. I was always confused why I couldn't get a good roam timer and always felt like I was losing out on my roams. I feel like nerfing level 2-5 roams are good, but once you hit 6 it's fair game
Is that a bad thing now? Playing mages mid used to absolutely suck when enemy Katarina is 30 cs behind but one roam bot gets her a triple kill and now she is a raid boss.
@@aminebarka9213 if u let her roam u aint punishing enough, roaming bot while 2-3 waves is under her tower is never worth even if she gets double kill.
The minion speed change is not the reason why mid ADCs became so prevelant during the summer split. The original speed change happened in 13.10 and summer split started on 14.10. That is an entire year of mid ADCs not being OP. Instead, the mid meta during that time were mages which was the mid meta before the minion changes anyways.
@@mibaoja combination of a lot of factors. Fated ashes was strong which incentivized ap junglers and most ap junglers prefer to be solo ap to balance out damage types in the comp. Mid lane got widened with the map changes making it much safer then before. Corki and tristana were very op at the time and the counters that people immediately went to were champs that had similar safety via mobility while also having decently strong laning phases (lucian/zeri) (smolder was not a real pick if you disagree with me go check his winrates without any of the chovy games). We also saw at worlds 2024 after corki/trist got nerfed and fated ashes got nerfed that the most prioed ad mid was yone who notably isn’t a marksman. Did the wave changes hurt mid lane as a whole in higher tier play? I would put forth the argument that they actually saved mid lane as a whole. The last tournament to have desynced waves was 2023 msi and the top 5 mids were ahri/annie/lissandra/naut/ksante. Really just a shining beacon of skill expression to have your top 5 most picked champs not give a single shit about playing mid and instead just perma roaming to dive on sides.
@@chiofan1180that will also facilitate the perma-dive bot playstyle in pro, aswell as the soloq 3-man dives in top once again, now also rewarded by securing triple grubs. I swear it sounds like fun until one decides to play top, jg or adc and has to just accept that the enemy midlaner has to be cobsidered a 3rd jungler, support being the 2nd. And man is it NOT fun playing perma safe for the first 20 minutes to respect that
@@chiofan1180 "We also saw at worlds 2024 after corki/trist got nerfed and fated ashes got nerfed that the most prioed ad mid was yone who notably isn’t a marksman." and then who were after yone? I don't watch worlds. 1. if adc mid's were right below yone I don't really see how this is an argument "well yone was more OP/better than any adc so him being #1 while they're #2 #3 #4 proves adcs mid sucked" doesn't really make sense. what is so note worthy that a mid laner who has infinite safety, can ult from your nexus to enemies nexus and return back to his clone, knockups stuns, facilitates a different role than a marksman would be #1 picked did teams still have bot laners as marksmen? cause you might not want to have double marksmen you know, which brings more incentive to have a yone or other champ that isn't a marksman, doesn't mean marksman mid isn't OP but just that it has to be really OP to want two on your team
Your content is pretty top notch with regards to how well you break down and simplify complex ideas within League. If more people watched your videos the quality of League play would be so much better. Amazing work. Also, as a side note, thank you Riot. I actually quit mid and switched roles as the result of the change to nerf roaming out of mid lane.
Oh.. you missed so many changes then. They made many changes to the Jungle and gold/xp amounts. They reduced the "gank" potential so champs that don't gank endlessly can still be somewhat on-paar with those that do.
@@-__Shadow__- Super interesting. I noticed the jungle changes were pretty significant. Idek how to jungle anymore, I get gapped every time (my knowledge was pretty minimal before hand). I'm literally a mid main, ganking was my way of dominating my games lol. Huge differences, but its what keeps league fun. It never stays the same.
I crucial thing about adcs turning up on mid was ignored. The fact that fleet footwork and avsord life was giga broken and there was no mage or assasin who was able to poke adcs out of the lane, and Nasus only showed up as a counter since maxing E+Aery base dmg was high. But yeah no chance to roam means ADC can free scale on mid and doesn't have to worry about anything, which was helped out by the runes too.
There's also Mid lane being wider so a lot easier to avoid ganks, they made both mid and top a lot harder to gank compared to bot lane so it make sense that you'd put ur hard scaling champion in a the safer lanes. Pretty sure this change would just encourage lane swaps more and we'll probably see it a lot on pro play and they it'll become standard in rank.
@mysticflow467 Try to play Orianna Syndra Azir LeBlanc etc into adc with prenerf fleet and absord life. The mages will be out of mana faster than the adc mids lose half of their hp. It was a crucial part of adc kid meta. Yes Corki and Tristana was playable before absord life got added, but the runes made them even more broken.
rogue didnt say but hinted us it affected the ganking mid after proxy top strat. wave comes a bit later to you now, gives jungler a few extra secs to kill you and affect your proxy
Such valuable stuff. I play Tryndamere mid and have these intuitive concepts in Masters but never really put a number on these things. Really cool and helpful to see these specified.
Thanks for the clear explanations i've never really looked at the game in this way. Also with the LeBlanc roam the jungler picking up the gold diff really just feeds your whole team overall.
Leblanc’s point of turn typically applies to vision too. Beyond the halfway point of the pit (front or back), you’re almost guaranteed to be spotted since the side and tri brushes are usually warded. This is from a Taliyah player’s perspective. I try to ult at that point
Good Video as some1 who mained jg and supp the last 7 years my midlane skills are a bit lacking, most of my mid games i win by roaming since i know the jg and support matchups very well. I actually didn't knew about the minion changes because i didn't cared as a supp/ jg main
ok, that might be a huge diamond solo Q nerf. diamond solo q is the elo where fake casual cover lane swaps are possible. u r top and crushed a wave, ur mid died at the begining of their wave or at roaming like this ahri. you are actualy able to go grab this mid wave and get back to top on time and the wave wont go to waste because the other midlaner pushed hard. the risk is that your mid will start troll or go top instead of heading back mid. if he did go top and he is under turret he will not be able to lane swap now without losing the entire wave mid. what i said is complicated, ask coach rogue
well that explains how I got went from iron 4 to emerald 1 last year, i got to farm in peace & got free plates whenever enemy laner leaves lane aka this change sucks for me
Oh, excellent! Maybe they'll fix the 4 years of afk farming jungle next. How about we get 2:30 respawn timers and shift some gold and experience from the camps to the scuttle crab like it used to be in seasons 8 and 9? Come on! Even Elise and Lee Sin of all champions are full clearing these days. In Season 10 Riot made camps respawn 30 seconds faster and nerfed the value of camps proportionally. Then in patch 10.8 they buffed jungle camps back up but didn't changed the spawn timers and since the jungle has basically became a farming simulator. I remember it. Meta went from Elise, Lee Sin and Rek'sai to Graves, Karthus and Fiddlesticks over night and things haven't changed substantialy since. Even when Elise and Lee Sin were strong, it was most likely due to them using an item really well, such as Goredrinker and most recently Eclipse on Lee Sin. But that says more about the item than the champion.
That makes so much sense. I stop roaming early cause I could not get my wave push enough to roam. I couldn't tell why I felt like roaming was bad for my tempo or why I stopped doing it. Now I only roam if I crush my laner into bits so losing a 2-3 waves wasn't a bad deal to me.
yes this video has opened my eyes and given me.... a conclusion. relief.. a uh... validation. uh... showed me the light make me feel better. idk the word right now.
In the very last example it looks like roaming still means viktor gets 1 wave, denies 1 wave, and gets a plate which is like not that much worse than giving a botlane death in a 4v2 dive. And this is the example of an impactful roam too? Might not even worked without the jg helping. I have another opinion of why adcs showed up in mid, phreak buffed them too much and they stopped being played at worlds because they finally got nerfed
this is gonna suck when mid laners start losing again cause their laner is perma killing bot lane off the roams, better mid win meta is back hell yeah!
This change also makes it easier for Neeko to disguise as lane minions earlier, since the minions were so fast she fell behind and it was super obvious.
Although I understand how big of a backstep that is & how it makes the game way more interesting, it also gives so so so much power into mid lane & unbalances roles even more. Botlane will become victims again & top laners will have a harder time just being a 1v1 skill check. So let's see how it goes!
I don't know if that taliyah game was a good example because corki nami had control on that wave, if the wave was fast they just dont let xayah touch it with taric behind and they can just crash it when they want
My kayle wr got significantly affected by this as i was playing kayle mid. Previously if i was not stomped i would reach level 10 or 11 in 14 mins and just keep up with wave clear and roaming with Kayle's passive.
even though i used to play ekko, who would probably suffer from this change, a big reason why i swapped from midlane is because the role has pretty much just devolved into another support over the past few years. especially recently, the midlane meta has just been to play scaling champions and neutralizers and handshake waves while looking for roam timers to walk around with your jungler just like a support. it made the lane feel super boring and uninteractive to the point where i just swapped to top lane so that i could actually get to fight another player in a solo lane.
I would have thought this change would be good for Ekko. He clears waves fast af and has good roaming and tower diving. His winrate rn is also pretty good
You should do a video on matching recalls and spending your gold efficiently across ALL roles. My silver teammates have 2k in the bank and overstays in lane and then get abused for not having TP. My junglers have 1.5k in the bank before first void grubs spawn and decides to clear raptors 15 seconds before grubs spawn instead of recalling. Then the enemy gets all 3 grubs because our jungler is too weak to contest.
Are any of your coaching sessions available to watch for free? A lot of the coaches I've dealt with have been very poor experiences, would be good to see how you go about it
i think the original change was made to try to nerf roaming mids in favor of the stay-at-home mages, with the dominance of ADC mids being an unintended consequence. They can't just blanket nerf the ADC's or their items because then mages take over the bot lane, so their solution is to concede and revert back to old minion wave timers.
5:00 is very mathematically correct, but when you add the human element to it, perhaps roaming and forcing a kill bot will tilt the enemy team and accelerate the game lmao
Im happy that they didnt revert it completely, because to me, as a non midlaner, its not fun to have a jgler mid and supp roaming around. Better for midlaners, but worse for every other role, so good that they are doing something in between.
Compared to other popular games now days, league has relatively stayed the same for over a decade. The impact only really noticeable to pro players tho, unless it’s something like them changing the jungle layout
is that why it's been ADC mid? totally makes sense. mid laners/ability based champions have no reason to be picked if they don't level up faster than other units
No it's because Phreak the imbecile buffed AD items, keystone, and certain mid champions that can contest wave prio, win trades, and scale hard aka Tristana/Corki/Smolder/Yone. The only AP champ that could do "well" was Azir until they gutted him.
Everyone lvl up at the same speed the only thing that slows it down is sharing xp, which happens in botlane and then you have zilean that can speed it up
Riot should just make kill gold higher, because then if you roam and didnt get anything out of it , you risked it and lost, but if you killed someone you risked it and won. Now with this new patch its like you risk it and if it worked you win and if the risk doesnt work you dont lose anything.
Riot has a big juggling act, make the game easy enough and approachable enough to attract newcomers, while having enough complexity for skill and game knowledge expression. I’d say they do a better job than any other game developer
I'd say Valve did a better job on that goal with Deadlock. 3rd person shooters are much easier for newcomers to be onboarded with, and the moba mechanics have been masterfully woven into the tight 3rd person movement shooter gameplay loop.
If they really want to attract new players they should add a proper tutorial and ways to learn and practise the basics without having to go up against players with hundreds of hours of game time.
@ A better tutorial won’t actually do much to bring in new players. A better method would be to ban all smurfing so that new players aren’t getting dunked on and berated by no life losers.
The ideal gank timing is based on the wave. If you want to catch them overextended, they have to be pushing the wave. If you want to dive them, you want to start the dive with a fresh wave so the minions can tank the initial tower shots (and on aggro resets). If the side waves meet 10s before mid gets there, the enemy laners are likely to have had enough time to clear the wave - either they pushed it and backed off, or cleared safely near/under tower.
And that's why I go ADC.. You canstill use ADC mid just persrve mana for your E or W if you're playing corki or smolder or tristanas even tristanas W, if you have wards placed and have functional eye balls you'll be fine.
So is this change just a global buff to the champion with better waveclear in the matchup? Or is there a way for a champion with weaker waveclear to somehow bend it to their advantage?
so people were pissed because riot made bot lane safer, cant wait for those 4/5 man dive bot and for them to be more worth for everybody else except bot
exactly this. why don't this game just put 4 AI in the bot lane and make the team who can get the more successful tower dive just automatically win the game. they're literally the same thing in soloq.
I can pretend this is going to affect me, but I'm a low elo player that will lose an entire wave and, since the bot lane is low elo they will throw the match because mid didn't follow me.
I always hated how weak roaming is in LoL, that's my number 1 issue with it. Roaming is always the most fun and interesting part of a moba but they're SO intent on having the game be boring farming lanes for 30 minutes, and at the same time rito is putting SO much power into the jungle that even the damn jungler is forced to heavily focus on farming the jungle, otherwise the team just loses by default due to missing out on a ton of permanent buffs.
lol i thought ahri arriving 10 seconds late to lane was fine since she still got all the minions and she could have waited a few seconds for the next wave... but then noticed she left with 5 seconds left i wonder how much she lost mid for that kill bot and how worth it was (specially since i think her team could have gotten the kill without her)
Hope you enjoyed the video!
If you want to learn even then you can watch my full length coaching sessions over on my Patreon
www.patreon.com/c/CoachRogue
"ramifications ..." shows Rammus on screen
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Huge change. I am bronze I will not take advantage of this because I am bad but HUGE CHANGE lol
But you will take advantsge of it if you watch pro play, since more chances to roam, give us more action in early game and that results in more engaging games to watch
You in EUW maybe? Im looking to boost people for free on my new acc xD
@@Maxecute add me : Seon #0770
You don't understand. I now have a new reason to blame being bronze on!
@@Maxecute hey wanna duo ?
Call it the triangle method (not the one CoreJJ talked about, but perhaps a macro-oriented extension of it). After you clear a wave, draw a triangle on the minimap between the enemy's next wave's current position, your current position, and where the waves will meet. If an enemy champ is in the triangle as the waves meet, you've given them prio. As long as the longest leg in the triangle is the one between the wave and the meeting spot, you're guaranteed to be able to contest the wave. The longer you let an enemy champ into your triangle, the more you're giving up for your play. However, if both you and your opponent aren't contesting the wave (due to resets, committing to cross-map, etc.), then the state of your triangle is as good as the state of the wave (pushing into you is good).
Found the velkoz main
My bronze ass brain couldnt even make it in the first half xd
This feels like using calculus to solve 2+2 ngl
@@kingd1486 ?
@@nightwave6963infinite sum of inberse potencies of 2 = 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 +... = 2. Then sum of two converging series is the sum of the two values thus 2+ 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 +... = 4 I guess
i was wondering why there were adcs and farmers mid. i just recently started playing again and was still roaming because i thought that was the play lol
so does everyone in low elo tbh. The flaming for not roaming from mid is still every game unless you do
Saying that _this_ is the reason for ADC mids is an exaggeration. Sure, it may be part of it, but the primary reason was the AP jungle meta enabled by Fated Ashes and Liandry's, which lasted a very long time. Worlds was played while the change was still in effect, and the only AD mid in the top 5 by presence was Yone because he was absurdly OP.
@@maleldil1 Yone was played because he had all the advantages of an ADC midlaner without their downsides (which is already close to none to begin with).
The addition of absorb life made sustain setups way too obnoxious in general, and it doesn't help that roaming was unviable.
The minion speed change happened in 13.10 and ADC mid didn’t become meta until 14.10. That’s a whole year in between the changes, so this literally has nothing to do with mid ADCs becoming strong.
@@TynoNyuhn Mid ADCs weren't meta because they didn't have the ultimate "fk your poke" setup. Both absorb life and minion speed change contributed to the meta.
I just discovered your content and I truly believe you were the creator I needed to understand concepts to push me from diamond to masters. What a phenomenal channel
Good luck on your journey bro
As much as i hate getting roamed on, i hate playing against someone hiding under turret as a late scaling adc way more.
This has been one of the best videos I have seen about league as of recently, the fact you're a pro coach really shows
I didn't know this change was in effect until about a week ago. I was always confused why I couldn't get a good roam timer and always felt like I was losing out on my roams. I feel like nerfing level 2-5 roams are good, but once you hit 6 it's fair game
yeah I did not realize this was one of the reasons my roams haven't felt as nice
a certain person made those changes so that adcs wouldn't get ganked by assasins
Is that a bad thing now? Playing mages mid used to absolutely suck when enemy Katarina is 30 cs behind but one roam bot gets her a triple kill and now she is a raid boss.
@@aminebarka9213 if u let her roam u aint punishing enough, roaming bot while 2-3 waves is under her tower is never worth even if she gets double kill.
@@madshansen6683Yes 🔥Careful not to roam or Syndra overextends to auto the turret 6 times, getting 1/19th of a plating.
@@stevenlang9849 speaking facts out there
But Rogue says they will gank more, not less.
The minion speed change is not the reason why mid ADCs became so prevelant during the summer split. The original speed change happened in 13.10 and summer split started on 14.10. That is an entire year of mid ADCs not being OP. Instead, the mid meta during that time were mages which was the mid meta before the minion changes anyways.
Nah I think it was just a slow culture shift too
if youre gonna "erm aktually 🤓" at least provide a counter argument on what actually forced mid laners to play marksmen.
@@mibaoja combination of a lot of factors. Fated ashes was strong which incentivized ap junglers and most ap junglers prefer to be solo ap to balance out damage types in the comp. Mid lane got widened with the map changes making it much safer then before. Corki and tristana were very op at the time and the counters that people immediately went to were champs that had similar safety via mobility while also having decently strong laning phases (lucian/zeri) (smolder was not a real pick if you disagree with me go check his winrates without any of the chovy games). We also saw at worlds 2024 after corki/trist got nerfed and fated ashes got nerfed that the most prioed ad mid was yone who notably isn’t a marksman.
Did the wave changes hurt mid lane as a whole in higher tier play? I would put forth the argument that they actually saved mid lane as a whole. The last tournament to have desynced waves was 2023 msi and the top 5 mids were ahri/annie/lissandra/naut/ksante. Really just a shining beacon of skill expression to have your top 5 most picked champs not give a single shit about playing mid and instead just perma roaming to dive on sides.
@@chiofan1180that will also facilitate the perma-dive bot playstyle in pro, aswell as the soloq 3-man dives in top once again, now also rewarded by securing triple grubs. I swear it sounds like fun until one decides to play top, jg or adc and has to just accept that the enemy midlaner has to be cobsidered a 3rd jungler, support being the 2nd. And man is it NOT fun playing perma safe for the first 20 minutes to respect that
@@chiofan1180
"We also saw at worlds 2024 after corki/trist got nerfed and fated ashes got nerfed that the most prioed ad mid was yone who notably isn’t a marksman."
and then who were after yone?
I don't watch worlds.
1. if adc mid's were right below yone I don't really see how this is an argument "well yone was more OP/better than any adc so him being #1 while they're #2 #3 #4 proves adcs mid sucked" doesn't really make sense. what is so note worthy that a mid laner who has infinite safety, can ult from your nexus to enemies nexus and return back to his clone, knockups stuns, facilitates a different role than a marksman would be #1 picked
did teams still have bot laners as marksmen? cause you might not want to have double marksmen you know, which brings more incentive to have a yone or other champ that isn't a marksman, doesn't mean marksman mid isn't OP but just that it has to be really OP to want two on your team
Your content is pretty top notch with regards to how well you break down and simplify complex ideas within League. If more people watched your videos the quality of League play would be so much better. Amazing work. Also, as a side note, thank you Riot. I actually quit mid and switched roles as the result of the change to nerf roaming out of mid lane.
Brain dead mid roams were only fun for the mid laners so
Watched this video learned so much. Queued up and my bot lane ran it down. Very helpful! lol
Your video is insanely useful, man. Thank you
Great content (as always)!
Thank god. No wonder why ganking always set me behind! I just came back after a year or two, so I had no idea this had changed 😭
Oh.. you missed so many changes then. They made many changes to the Jungle and gold/xp amounts. They reduced the "gank" potential so champs that don't gank endlessly can still be somewhat on-paar with those that do.
@@-__Shadow__- Super interesting. I noticed the jungle changes were pretty significant. Idek how to jungle anymore, I get gapped every time (my knowledge was pretty minimal before hand). I'm literally a mid main, ganking was my way of dominating my games lol. Huge differences, but its what keeps league fun. It never stays the same.
Saw this video, liked it and checked out just the titles of your other videos. You gained a new sub - (I will most likely) appreciate the content!
I crucial thing about adcs turning up on mid was ignored. The fact that fleet footwork and avsord life was giga broken and there was no mage or assasin who was able to poke adcs out of the lane, and Nasus only showed up as a counter since maxing E+Aery base dmg was high.
But yeah no chance to roam means ADC can free scale on mid and doesn't have to worry about anything, which was helped out by the runes too.
There's also Mid lane being wider so a lot easier to avoid ganks, they made both mid and top a lot harder to gank compared to bot lane so it make sense that you'd put ur hard scaling champion in a the safer lanes. Pretty sure this change would just encourage lane swaps more and we'll probably see it a lot on pro play and they it'll become standard in rank.
ignored? why bring it up its not relevant to the video. also I wouldn't call those runes Crucial to being an adc mid
@mysticflow467 Try to play Orianna Syndra Azir LeBlanc etc into adc with prenerf fleet and absord life. The mages will be out of mana faster than the adc mids lose half of their hp. It was a crucial part of adc kid meta. Yes Corki and Tristana was playable before absord life got added, but the runes made them even more broken.
^This. Also many mages are weak to adcs, and due to them requiring mana vs autoattacks.. the ADCs and some tops win by default.
rogue didnt say but hinted us it affected the ganking mid after proxy top strat. wave comes a bit later to you now, gives jungler a few extra secs to kill you and affect your proxy
Such valuable stuff. I play Tryndamere mid and have these intuitive concepts in Masters but never really put a number on these things. Really cool and helpful to see these specified.
Thanks for the clear explanations i've never really looked at the game in this way. Also with the LeBlanc roam the jungler picking up the gold diff really just feeds your whole team overall.
High tier content that rivals Zen, Curtis & other greats'. Godspeed to you, Coach!
Leblanc’s point of turn typically applies to vision too. Beyond the halfway point of the pit (front or back), you’re almost guaranteed to be spotted since the side and tri brushes are usually warded. This is from a Taliyah player’s perspective. I try to ult at that point
Good Video as some1 who mained jg and supp the last 7 years my midlane skills are a bit lacking, most of my mid games i win by roaming since i know the jg and support matchups very well. I actually didn't knew about the minion changes because i didn't cared as a supp/ jg main
ok, that might be a huge diamond solo Q nerf. diamond solo q is the elo where fake casual cover lane swaps are possible. u r top and crushed a wave, ur mid died at the begining of their wave or at roaming like this ahri. you are actualy able to go grab this mid wave and get back to top on time and the wave wont go to waste because the other midlaner pushed hard. the risk is that your mid will start troll or go top instead of heading back mid. if he did go top and he is under turret he will not be able to lane swap now without losing the entire wave mid. what i said is complicated, ask coach rogue
Maybe in Korea but not elsewhere. Nerf in GM.
This is why the only "roams" i do is catching my teammates waves if they die on a slowpush
Such an informative video. Thanks man
no way u were on a team with coach chippys n i recognized that from u showing the same clip he does in ur intro. i feel like a detective
We were twice actually HAHA
Once in like 2016 or something, and then more recently in 2022!
I'm Rogues mum and they played on the same team
@@teresaglennie2699 naw if u rly are thats really sweet
Another banger from Coach Rogue!
Great explanation! Thanks
well that explains how I got went from iron 4 to emerald 1 last year, i got to farm in peace & got free plates whenever enemy laner leaves lane
aka this change sucks for me
Geez. You should coach Ludwig. This was wonderful to learn.
Oh, excellent! Maybe they'll fix the 4 years of afk farming jungle next. How about we get 2:30 respawn timers and shift some gold and experience from the camps to the scuttle crab like it used to be in seasons 8 and 9? Come on! Even Elise and Lee Sin of all champions are full clearing these days.
In Season 10 Riot made camps respawn 30 seconds faster and nerfed the value of camps proportionally. Then in patch 10.8 they buffed jungle camps back up but didn't changed the spawn timers and since the jungle has basically became a farming simulator. I remember it. Meta went from Elise, Lee Sin and Rek'sai to Graves, Karthus and Fiddlesticks over night and things haven't changed substantialy since. Even when Elise and Lee Sin were strong, it was most likely due to them using an item really well, such as Goredrinker and most recently Eclipse on Lee Sin. But that says more about the item than the champion.
Thanks Coach Rogue for a great explanation.
FINALLY. I’ve been waiting years for this revert
That makes so much sense. I stop roaming early cause I could not get my wave push enough to roam. I couldn't tell why I felt like roaming was bad for my tempo or why I stopped doing it. Now I only roam if I crush my laner into bits so losing a 2-3 waves wasn't a bad deal to me.
yes this video has opened my eyes and given me.... a conclusion. relief.. a uh... validation. uh... showed me the light make me feel better. idk the word right now.
In the very last example it looks like roaming still means viktor gets 1 wave, denies 1 wave, and gets a plate which is like not that much worse than giving a botlane death in a 4v2 dive. And this is the example of an impactful roam too? Might not even worked without the jg helping. I have another opinion of why adcs showed up in mid, phreak buffed them too much and they stopped being played at worlds because they finally got nerfed
This is such a crazy concept to learn if you play champs with ooc movespeed because your point of no return is so much further
good thing to know bot lane will be facing four man dive every single wave again.
epic ADC 2022
this is gonna suck when mid laners start losing again cause their laner is perma killing bot lane off the roams, better mid win meta is back hell yeah!
This change also makes it easier for Neeko to disguise as lane minions earlier, since the minions were so fast she fell behind and it was super obvious.
Loved this learned
Although I understand how big of a backstep that is & how it makes the game way more interesting, it also gives so so so much power into mid lane & unbalances roles even more. Botlane will become victims again & top laners will have a harder time just being a 1v1 skill check.
So let's see how it goes!
Very well explained! Could you do this same kind of video for the top lane waves?
I don't know if that taliyah game was a good example because corki nami had control on that wave, if the wave was fast they just dont let xayah touch it with taric behind and they can just crash it when they want
Thankfully this change came through, went from D4 50% Kat otp to Master 160 LP 68% wr on Kat
and the upcoming fearless draft. ahhhh love it
good video man, thank you
10/10 video, thank you for it
My kayle wr got significantly affected by this as i was playing kayle mid.
Previously if i was not stomped i would reach level 10 or 11 in 14 mins and just keep up with wave clear and roaming with Kayle's passive.
Now pros will play two laners at mid, supports always roam then the adr will play like the usual mid laner stuff.
did not expect to actually learn something. then realized your name said coach. very interesting at 1:20
And he played pro for 7 years
2:24 mmmhh we should check on that shaco
pretty good video ty
This is really good to know. I like roaming to help other lanes but always give the enemie a cs lead.
even though i used to play ekko, who would probably suffer from this change, a big reason why i swapped from midlane is because the role has pretty much just devolved into another support over the past few years. especially recently, the midlane meta has just been to play scaling champions and neutralizers and handshake waves while looking for roam timers to walk around with your jungler just like a support. it made the lane feel super boring and uninteractive to the point where i just swapped to top lane so that i could actually get to fight another player in a solo lane.
I would have thought this change would be good for Ekko. He clears waves fast af and has good roaming and tower diving.
His winrate rn is also pretty good
Top lane is weak, adc is weak, mid lane is weak... every single laner complains about their lane being weak. Lmao.
@@Nebukanezzer learn to read? Even if mid was objectively more powerful, the commenter doesn't enjoy the playstyle.
@@Nebukanezzer when the hell did i say anything about mid being weak?
@@vez3834 seriously like these are not real people i didn’t mention the strength of the role even once. actual robot ☠️
As an unorthodox laner (proxy player), I love this change.
Amazing explanation
You should do a video on matching recalls and spending your gold efficiently across ALL roles. My silver teammates have 2k in the bank and overstays in lane and then get abused for not having TP. My junglers have 1.5k in the bank before first void grubs spawn and decides to clear raptors 15 seconds before grubs spawn instead of recalling. Then the enemy gets all 3 grubs because our jungler is too weak to contest.
So we are back in 4 man bot at minute 3 an isolated top until 14 min
Mid laners getting to have more fun. Bravo Riot.
That’s why I felt like lux was a bit op because of her push with the ultimate ability.
Are any of your coaching sessions available to watch for free? A lot of the coaches I've dealt with have been very poor experiences, would be good to see how you go about it
i think the original change was made to try to nerf roaming mids in favor of the stay-at-home mages, with the dominance of ADC mids being an unintended consequence. They can't just blanket nerf the ADC's or their items because then mages take over the bot lane, so their solution is to concede and revert back to old minion wave timers.
5:00 is very mathematically correct, but when you add the human element to it, perhaps roaming and forcing a kill bot will tilt the enemy team and accelerate the game lmao
Im happy that they didnt revert it completely, because to me, as a non midlaner, its not fun to have a jgler mid and supp roaming around. Better for midlaners, but worse for every other role, so good that they are doing something in between.
Compared to other popular games now days, league has relatively stayed the same for over a decade. The impact only really noticeable to pro players tho, unless it’s something like them changing the jungle layout
Garen mid looking good here. Insta clear wave and sprint down river perma
is that why it's been ADC mid? totally makes sense. mid laners/ability based champions have no reason to be picked if they don't level up faster than other units
No it's because Phreak the imbecile buffed AD items, keystone, and certain mid champions that can contest wave prio, win trades, and scale hard aka Tristana/Corki/Smolder/Yone. The only AP champ that could do "well" was Azir until they gutted him.
Everyone lvl up at the same speed the only thing that slows it down is sharing xp, which happens in botlane and then you have zilean that can speed it up
Very well explained
my mid is important this patch for bot lane coin flip
Why was it even nerfed in the first place? What was the reasoning for making the minions collide at the same time?
i didn't notice a difference as a mid main lmao
Riot should just make kill gold higher, because then if you roam and didnt get anything out of it , you risked it and lost, but if you killed someone you risked it and won. Now with this new patch its like you risk it and if it worked you win and if the risk doesnt work you dont lose anything.
Riot has a big juggling act, make the game easy enough and approachable enough to attract newcomers, while having enough complexity for skill and game knowledge expression. I’d say they do a better job than any other game developer
I'd say Valve did a better job on that goal with Deadlock. 3rd person shooters are much easier for newcomers to be onboarded with, and the moba mechanics have been masterfully woven into the tight 3rd person movement shooter gameplay loop.
If they really want to attract new players they should add a proper tutorial and ways to learn and practise the basics without having to go up against players with hundreds of hours of game time.
@ A better tutorial won’t actually do much to bring in new players. A better method would be to ban all smurfing so that new players aren’t getting dunked on and berated by no life losers.
wow, i have been playing this game for so long that i forgot this macro
"master the art of how to play a roaming style" *Laughs in bard main*
Why is it important to have the side waves meet during the roam/gank rather than before?
The ideal gank timing is based on the wave. If you want to catch them overextended, they have to be pushing the wave. If you want to dive them, you want to start the dive with a fresh wave so the minions can tank the initial tower shots (and on aggro resets). If the side waves meet 10s before mid gets there, the enemy laners are likely to have had enough time to clear the wave - either they pushed it and backed off, or cleared safely near/under tower.
and that's a very unfortunate neeko nerf, which i absolutely hate
wouldnt this also effect jungle ganks in the side lane?
Malz stonks are rising
No one gives af if NA or EU pros quit. They cant win a worlds to save their children's lives lmao
And that's why I go ADC.. You canstill use ADC mid just persrve mana for your E or W if you're playing corki or smolder or tristanas even tristanas W, if you have wards placed and have functional eye balls you'll be fine.
Boring ahh playstyle
this change was also bad for helping the first camp of the jungler, as if you take to much you may lose some xp, im talking more about low elo
Seems like the change they wanted to make in the first place but didnt get it right
Idk about y’all but the enemy mid laners been roaming for free for a long ass time 😂 now this makes it even more true?
So is this change just a global buff to the champion with better waveclear in the matchup? Or is there a way for a champion with weaker waveclear to somehow bend it to their advantage?
Midlane buffed.
unless im a galio i could arrive in just 2 seconds with ult.
so people were pissed because riot made bot lane safer, cant wait for those 4/5 man dive bot and for them to be more worth for everybody else except bot
exactly this. why don't this game just put 4 AI in the bot lane and make the team who can get the more successful tower dive just automatically win the game.
they're literally the same thing in soloq.
Kassadin penna here
I don't play mid but I feel like I got coached
Its funny people are whining about it but when i saw the change i was so happy about it lmao. sad they walked it back (i hate roaming champs)
Question: If roams are preferably done after level 7 and it reverts to the pre patch speed why does riot revert it to before?
I can pretend this is going to affect me, but I'm a low elo player that will lose an entire wave and, since the bot lane is low elo they will throw the match because mid didn't follow me.
Waa waaa I'm a midlaner crying waa waaaaa
I always hated how weak roaming is in LoL, that's my number 1 issue with it. Roaming is always the most fun and interesting part of a moba but they're SO intent on having the game be boring farming lanes for 30 minutes, and at the same time rito is putting SO much power into the jungle that even the damn jungler is forced to heavily focus on farming the jungle, otherwise the team just loses by default due to missing out on a ton of permanent buffs.
Back to Season 1? GOOD.
GIGANTIC leap in logic. They powercrept ratios in marksmen making them scale harder with gold. Where is the most gold and exp? Mid.
a good time to be a Quinn one trick
lol i thought ahri arriving 10 seconds late to lane was fine since she still got all the minions and she could have waited a few seconds for the next wave... but then noticed she left with 5 seconds left
i wonder how much she lost mid for that kill bot and how worth it was (specially since i think her team could have gotten the kill without her)