2d6. The dice stand for all those variables in a situation that we can't easily quantify (sweaty hands, piece of slippery gravel, etc) that we're obviously not going to make rules or tables for unless we want to make the RPG version of The Campaign of North Africa. For that I've come to see the 2d6 as perfect for a system that supports roleplaying a character; more specifically with modifiers from attribute and skill + situational mods for a roll over target number. The higher the attribute and skill the more "control" your character is bringing to a situation. This is why I've come to despise die pools as it essentially means that the better you are at something the more "randomness" gets introduced to a situation.
Exactly! I love dice pools for how much information you can encode in one roll. "This is the hero die (blue), these are the negative tag dice (red) that will cancel out the effect dice (white), etc etc. But all that aside, it does exactly what you say: only introduces more chaos. ::high five::
DC20 systems with AC and DC targets are effectively probability density functions of a uniform distribution. There is nothing inherently swingy about this. The nat 20 and Crit fail (which in dnd only exist for attacking) are fun exceptions to the pdf. A 2d6 system, like draw steel, seem to rely on outcome tables which doesn't really improve on the mechanic. Tbh I'm not sure your argument is great without using specific probabilistic examples comparing specific rules.
I came into the hobby in a d20 system. I spent so much time looking into stacking modifiers so I never had to rely on the random to be successful. But then I began asking myself, why am I rolling dice in the first place if I'm trying to engineer the dice away...?
I like them because they stay within a normal range most of the time. When something is extreme, it feels EXTREME! And, since you're working with a range of 11 options, a modifier of +1 or +2 goes a long way.
I watched this video and the main principle is very true. I've also gone back and watched the other video and I agree: a 2d6 system is better for games with less 'crunch'. And a system like 5e would really benefit from using a 2d6 rule set because it's rules light and a step away from the previous editions. However, when playing group games with more crunch, I'd say a d20 is quite a good way to measure the variable while the modifiers are there to flesh out the character inside the rules. Pathfinder 2e adds your level to your bonus, have levels of proficiency and you have critical successes and failiures if you roll 10 above or 10 below the target number. So each character has strengths and weaknesses, and although you might have to do some maths it will be a higher or lower number on the die for each player. Numenera is a system where your ability lowers the difficulty on the die through character traits, equipment and environment, and each level of difficulty raises the target number by 3 (difficulty 1=3, difficulty 2=6 etc). I once made a system where 6-19 was a success, 20 was a critical success and 1-5 was a failiure. And it was a blast. But I also had to style the game's rules differently through enemy health, conditions that raised the failiure number etc. But it was fast paced and really fun. I think the main issue with d20 systems is how the dice rolling in spells and attacks word. That's what takes a lot of time is spent unnecessarily. Some need a calculator to figure out the damage of a fireball or cone of cold, for example. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Love the videos, I like your takes and hope to see more! 🫶
Thanks for giving it a watch; and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Nice to hear from folks who have actually worked through all this stuff, too!
2 місяці тому
Team 2d6. But I like some Fate (or Fudge) too, for the same reason : Normal distribution of results (Fate dices being easy to add too)
Personally I love 2D6 and D100 because of the two dice balance, your never too powerful or never too weak making progress steady especially for battles and contested checks but there are times I'd prefer D20 is when absolute randomness and chaos is more exciting specifically in events only.
I like that. I wish more people understood that the d20 is a random number generator which can be good for situations that need a random number generator! But when you're trying to recreate a work where things work a particular way? Forget about it!
I like PbtA as much as the next guy but this really isn't much of an argument for anything? HOW is 2d6 being focused around an average a good thing? HOW is the 20 and 1 at odds with the d20's "flatness", and how is that a bad thing? You have not fully explained this. Think about how the 20 and 1 are special. Yes, you have as much of a chance of rolling a 20 as rolling like a 10. But the 20 is more special, because it's the *best* one. You may have a 5% chance of getting it, but you have a 95% chance of getting worse, and 0% of better. Whereas if you roll a 10, yes you also have a 5% chance of getting it, but you had a 50% chance of getting better, and could do worse 45% of the time. Lastly, when it comes to less objective meanings of "better", I personally believe that you don't know enough of what you're arguing unless you can come up with a counter-argument, and still promote your argument in spite of that counter-argument being true. One look at your chapters shows you have done none of that. No disadvantages of 2d6 systems, no advantages of d20 systems. Let me do that for you. With D20 systems, the swinginess makes character progression more meaningful. The swinginess is one thing, but the character is able to grow more *because* of the swinginess. 2d6 systems limit how much a character can grow because the designer knows that at some point the modifiers will outpace the dice and make rolling moot when it shouldn't be, and as a result there's a bit less of a difference between a character just starting and a character towards the endgame. With a d20, you can see a big difference between them; designers are able to even get modifiers of +5 over the course of a game. Which is a bit of a moot point in most 2d6 games where a character isn't meant to be in the action for very long. Basically every PbtA game has character retirement built in.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Which Dice System Is Better? [D20&D6]](/img/n.gif)
I'm a roleplayer. So 2d6 for me.
The few. The proud. The players.
thought you'd be here. RIP.
@@vast3394 🙏
2d6. The dice stand for all those variables in a situation that we can't easily quantify (sweaty hands, piece of slippery gravel, etc) that we're obviously not going to make rules or tables for unless we want to make the RPG version of The Campaign of North Africa. For that I've come to see the 2d6 as perfect for a system that supports roleplaying a character; more specifically with modifiers from attribute and skill + situational mods for a roll over target number. The higher the attribute and skill the more "control" your character is bringing to a situation. This is why I've come to despise die pools as it essentially means that the better you are at something the more "randomness" gets introduced to a situation.
Exactly! I love dice pools for how much information you can encode in one roll. "This is the hero die (blue), these are the negative tag dice (red) that will cancel out the effect dice (white), etc etc. But all that aside, it does exactly what you say: only introduces more chaos. ::high five::
@@StagRPG ::high five::
"The higher the attribute and skill the more "control" your character is bringing to a situation." This,,, applies to d20 systems too,,,
DC20 systems with AC and DC targets are effectively probability density functions of a uniform distribution. There is nothing inherently swingy about this. The nat 20 and Crit fail (which in dnd only exist for attacking) are fun exceptions to the pdf.
A 2d6 system, like draw steel, seem to rely on outcome tables which doesn't really improve on the mechanic.
Tbh I'm not sure your argument is great without using specific probabilistic examples comparing specific rules.
Traveller is my 2d6 game of choice. I'm not a fan of Draw Steel's reference table approach.
I came into the hobby in a d20 system. I spent so much time looking into stacking modifiers so I never had to rely on the random to be successful. But then I began asking myself, why am I rolling dice in the first place if I'm trying to engineer the dice away...?
I've never played in a 2d6 system but I hear they are better. And it makes sense.
I like them because they stay within a normal range most of the time. When something is extreme, it feels EXTREME! And, since you're working with a range of 11 options, a modifier of +1 or +2 goes a long way.
I watched this video and the main principle is very true. I've also gone back and watched the other video and I agree: a 2d6 system is better for games with less 'crunch'. And a system like 5e would really benefit from using a 2d6 rule set because it's rules light and a step away from the previous editions.
However, when playing group games with more crunch, I'd say a d20 is quite a good way to measure the variable while the modifiers are there to flesh out the character inside the rules. Pathfinder 2e adds your level to your bonus, have levels of proficiency and you have critical successes and failiures if you roll 10 above or 10 below the target number. So each character has strengths and weaknesses, and although you might have to do some maths it will be a higher or lower number on the die for each player.
Numenera is a system where your ability lowers the difficulty on the die through character traits, equipment and environment, and each level of difficulty raises the target number by 3 (difficulty 1=3, difficulty 2=6 etc).
I once made a system where 6-19 was a success, 20 was a critical success and 1-5 was a failiure. And it was a blast. But I also had to style the game's rules differently through enemy health, conditions that raised the failiure number etc. But it was fast paced and really fun.
I think the main issue with d20 systems is how the dice rolling in spells and attacks word. That's what takes a lot of time is spent unnecessarily. Some need a calculator to figure out the damage of a fireball or cone of cold, for example.
I'd love to hear your thoughts. Love the videos, I like your takes and hope to see more! 🫶
Thanks for giving it a watch; and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Nice to hear from folks who have actually worked through all this stuff, too!
Team 2d6. But I like some Fate (or Fudge) too, for the same reason : Normal distribution of results (Fate dices being easy to add too)
I genuinely like FATE (for the most part). The dice make so much sense.
Personally I love 2D6 and D100 because of the two dice balance, your never too powerful or never too weak making progress steady especially for battles and contested checks but there are times I'd prefer D20 is when absolute randomness and chaos is more exciting specifically in events only.
I like that. I wish more people understood that the d20 is a random number generator which can be good for situations that need a random number generator! But when you're trying to recreate a work where things work a particular way? Forget about it!
I like PbtA as much as the next guy but this really isn't much of an argument for anything?
HOW is 2d6 being focused around an average a good thing? HOW is the 20 and 1 at odds with the d20's "flatness", and how is that a bad thing? You have not fully explained this.
Think about how the 20 and 1 are special. Yes, you have as much of a chance of rolling a 20 as rolling like a 10. But the 20 is more special, because it's the *best* one. You may have a 5% chance of getting it, but you have a 95% chance of getting worse, and 0% of better. Whereas if you roll a 10, yes you also have a 5% chance of getting it, but you had a 50% chance of getting better, and could do worse 45% of the time.
Lastly, when it comes to less objective meanings of "better", I personally believe that you don't know enough of what you're arguing unless you can come up with a counter-argument, and still promote your argument in spite of that counter-argument being true. One look at your chapters shows you have done none of that. No disadvantages of 2d6 systems, no advantages of d20 systems.
Let me do that for you.
With D20 systems, the swinginess makes character progression more meaningful. The swinginess is one thing, but the character is able to grow more *because* of the swinginess. 2d6 systems limit how much a character can grow because the designer knows that at some point the modifiers will outpace the dice and make rolling moot when it shouldn't be, and as a result there's a bit less of a difference between a character just starting and a character towards the endgame. With a d20, you can see a big difference between them; designers are able to even get modifiers of +5 over the course of a game.
Which is a bit of a moot point in most 2d6 games where a character isn't meant to be in the action for very long. Basically every PbtA game has character retirement built in.
Thanks for weighing in.