On the topic of VAs having context about the larger game world: I find it kind of amusingly ironic that one of the few VAs that actually played FFXIV before joining the game and knew all of its esoteric terminology out of the gate was picked to play the shonen-est main character who knew fuckall about any of that. 😂
It's Day 2 of 7.1, and I had been waiting for someone- ANYONE- to produce some sort of low-effort video comparing pre- and post-patch SPHENES. I am so proud of you guys that it was your low-effort (lol) video that the algorithm presented me. Truly embracing your current-content era!
@@KainsAddiction haha really my dude thats more of your opinion not fact. a lot of players like the en va i can understand it doesn't click for everyone and thats fine.
It sounded like Y'Shtola's throne room arrival dialogue was a lot cleaner and not as "recorded via cellphone" as before. I'm so glad Wuk Lamat no longer sounds perfectly relaxed and unbothered after being crushed by the giant hand anymore.
Oh really? Will have to check that out. Was one of things I was thinking of when I was talking about the seemingly random quality of room echo effects in XIV cutscenes.
That was the first scene I thought of when I saw the patchnote line about english voice dialogue being adjusted. Clearly the VA was using some different setup and was unable to record it properly due to some time crunch.
@@SovietmassI've read that Y'shtola's voice actress was either heavily pregnant or recently had a baby around the time the voices were recorded, so the theory is that somebody must've said "oh, it's okay, you don't have to come down to the recording studio then. You only got like 10 lines anyway. Just record them at home and send them in." Which can work, but somebody needs to do some mixing and Post-Processing on the audio to make it sound decent, which they didn't do.
Not the first time they've done this. They re-did Asahi's rant just before his death in the patches leading up to EW, his original performance was too subdued and didn't really fit the animation, the re-record is much more emotional. This took years to be done though, since they didn't have a reason to get the VA back in to booth until Fandanial showed up.
You guys missed this, but during the ascension ceremony on launch.. the wuk voice lines referenced the hanu area for the Yok Huy story. Like it was straight up wrong, but fixed by the time you guys got to it. That kinda points to Garret's production/direction issues suspicions. So if you have one character doing the most talking... well odds are they are going to get hit by the most production issues (either mistranslated/literally picking acension_5.wav when you meant to pick acension_6.wav etc).
@@Yvanne Part of it was compressed production schedule because of the SAG-AFTA strikes, was my understanding. The EU teams weren't impacted, but the US based VAs couldn't record until a bit later.
We need a re-record of the entire Praetorium. I wish they'd redo all Gaius' lines with the actor from Shadowbringers. And Cid's "Don't even think about dying, you're too bloody useful" is teeerrrible :)
To that end, there's something to be said for most of ARR. Go back and do something like Coils, and listen to Aliaie's lines. Whew lad. Ironically I never had too much of a problem with Sam Riegel's Alphinaud, but replacing the ARR VAing for cohesion would be nice.
they already removed the "how very glib" part, which baffled me at the time but the more I thought about it, based on what I've seen of Gaius through post StB and through ShB, I now feel like it was that the devs decided that it wasn't something that Gaius would say and it makes sense to me.
@@scotty110 There was also a dialogue choice beforehand in the very first version, which prompted the line. When they first made cutscenes unskippable, they removed the dialogue choice but not Gaius's response.
@@hypercube8735 Yeah, I've finally gotten used to the new voice, and while I never hated it, I do feel it's a shame they went hard into the Pirates of the Caribbean style of voice for most all of Limsa. I actually liked the idea of a huge group of pirates not having the stereotypical accent, or at least having a mishmash of accents from all over. That would have been awesome!
Wuk Lamats growing confidence really shines through in these lines now, capturing her transformation as a powerful figure. The vocal struggle and intensity in her tone give players a deeper sense of how formidable the mecha boss truly is, emphasizing the high stakes of the encounter.
You have to be joking. It's still garbage. Play the game in it's native language and read the words we're given, instead of watching this side job version.
@@2inverse469 ... the game doesn't have a native language, the scripts are developed in eng and jp simultaneously if you'd paid attention to any interviews with the dev team you would know that
I didn't mind the English VO work in DT, but I also thought it often sounded a little rushed and below their standards. (Actually a lot of the sound mixing in general.) I'm glad they're taking the time and effort to clean some of it up.
@@laerwen There were definite rough patches, rougher than normal. Things like awkward music placement and Yshtola's poor audio mixing quality. Even the script had obvious errors - in the big cutscene where Wuk Lamat is becoming the new ruler, one of the lines gets Urqopacha and Kozama'uka confused. 95% of the VA criticism is nonsense, but I think it initially came from the writing and audio in general sounding like it never had a QA pass.
Im so glad they are taking this to heart and actually changing stuff. DT suffered from really poor English VA quality, not just Wuk. Some of the scions sounded like they phoned in their lines and Thancred had this weird nose breathing thing going on in some scenes to name a few examples. We know for a fact all these VA's can perform well (yes even Wuk's VA, she has an amazing demo reel where she does yelling and emotional acting just fine) and yet performance was mediocre throughout the entire expansion. I dont think all the VA's got together and all decided to perform badly the entire expansion on purpose so the problem lies with VA directing. I know Alphinaud's VA has previously talked about receiving poor VA directing (for example a director is supposed to say things like "make a sound like you are jumping into water" so the VA has context for the line they are saying) and when the directing is bad you get really awkward flat line readings like when Wuk "yells in lowercase". However i have heard people say the English VA director didn't even know the context for scenes because SE was afraid of leaking spoilers, which is absolutely insane. Anyway, im really glad they are dealing with this now before they can do more damage. Hopefully VA's will be given proper directing from now on.
Sena's VA director did not know the context, therefore she yelled in lowercase (a good description). The problem is this: why does the XIV community feel it's perfectly fine to then send death threats? (Hint: transphobia's a hell of a drug - the root of the "criticism")
Afraid of leaking spoilers sounds like an excuse. They had a changing of the guard in the writing team leadership for this expansion. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the new leads falling behind due to inexperience and messing up the production schedule. Explains the first draft energy of a bunch of dialogue, the auto-advancing unvoiced cutscenes, and the bonkers outcome of having a new entry character given such a large proportion of the dialogue the expansion lives or dies by one rushed performance. Poor Wuk is having to carry the equivalent of Emet and the Exarch together, if both of them had been with the party for all of ShB.
@@laerwen well about death threads. What you want, if Sena was so antagonizing in Shitter about almost everything against her or Smile or etc? That's the reason. It is good? No ofc. People just attacked very bad person because that bad person. But attack like this only because of SPIIIN? Nah, it's ridiculously. (And I ger banned on reddit for that words :D)
according to reddit, which means of course it must be true, apparently even the voice director wasn't told what the scene was. I hope this convinces SE to stop being so paranoid about spoilers and tell them what they need to know >
It's not quite that simple. Depending on where in the process the VA work is actually recorded, they might not even have anything close to completed scenes to go on. Rough cuts, story boards, maybe even just an outline. Minor tonal mismatches like this happen all the time throughout the gaming industry... hell, there are mismatches this shot all the way through 14 itself. This one got picked up and memed on because of the DT reception.
@@rabid_si If all the VD had was a storyboard or something at this point, that's not great but understandable, but if they were truly given NOTHING but the text dialogue, regardless of the reason, that... that sucks, man.
As optimistic as your "with the old cast" re-record of ARR is, I'm very much of the opinion the game needs ARR:Remastered to launch alongside 8.0 just for longevity's sake and at that point you'd use the new cast. Restructure it slightly, strip out the worst grinds, silo-off some bits that really should be side-quests, make Crystal Tower the MSQ main thrust of 2.1-3 and Crystal Braves the b-plot. Probably should come with a level crunch down to around 30 too just to kick the "what do we do after level 100" can down the road a bit more.
Okay, but making the Crystal Braves the b-plot and then having them come back to hit hard during the Bloody Banquet would actually be amazing (and it would feel less obvious of a plot twist)
I agree, the crystal tower being mandatory for the MSQ yet being shown as a blue quest is dumb. The worst part of it is that some players think it's uninportant because it's a sidequests so they skip all the cutscenes thinking it won't matter. They need to change it to be a MSQ icon so people don't missinterpret it as "ughhhh, why do i have to do sidequests?"
As someone who voice acts, directs voice actors, and has played a lot of FF14, I'm glad they made these changes. I was pretty neutral on Wuk Lamat for most of Dawntrail but her flat yells, not only during this fight but in other places as well, were definitely a huge detriment. Most of the time in instances like this it is rarely the actor's fault for a lackluster final product. Either they were given poor/incorrect direction, they were miscast, or (and you guys brought this up too) even the director didn't know the full context of the scene. I don't feel like Wuk Lamat was miscast but with several scenes I felt like Sena Bryer was hitting the "acting wall", where she couldn't get enough emotions across. She got louder but the emotions didn't get stronger so it just came across as a flat delivery. Which I understand, had to break through that myself and still see VAs struggle with it. But I no longer feel that with these new takes and I'm glad Square went the extra mile to fix things. Hopefully Sena will get some reprieve from this cause the internet went way to far against her.
It sounds like even the voice directors weren't really given enough context for the scene (images, music, clips). I hope this becomes a learning lesson for the devs, because this shows that proper VO direction can drastically improve the experience. I wouldn't have had any problem with this performance if this is what I got on my first Dawntrail playthrough.
Yeah that's what I picked up. Also with how people found her character extremely annoying. Based on my experience with those types of characters, she was supposed to be the endearingly annoying type. You roll your eyes at her, but you love her all the same. And with the voice acting, it fell short, especially during the emotional parts, so all that came across was the annoying.
Tbh I think they got the proper response "too far." While I will say for me it was the voice in game at first, but then was also because the VA themselves are actually kind of a crap person irl. Trying to get a VA for Guilty Gear's Bridget fired because they aren't trans is pretty messed up. Not to mention, trying to label people racist for not liking the song Smile is off the wall too they called is gospel music. However, as a black man whose heard actual gospel music, it wasn't.
@@ozmintheobserver I didn't have much of a problem with the song.I just thought it was misused.If it only appeared at the end it would have been fine with me.
The full phrase also makes me think of the locker scene in MIB II. "BE KIND! REWIND!" "Go back and reconcile your past, in order to move tranquilly into your future!"
I saw the patch note about voice dialog but didn't know it was for this scene specifically. When I first went through it, I honestly didn't even give it a single thought about it being anything out of the ordinary and have largely enjoyed the voice acting for what it was. The tone between the original take and the current take is an interesting difference - though given Wuk Lamat's general personality, I feel like the original makes sense in context in the story. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing you two interview the VA - Sena Bryer. Sena jumped into the story when SE is trying to start a new chapter and I would love to hear from Sena's perspective on how it was to give an english voice to Wuk Lamat or even hear how the redubbing of the lines went? Like was it in the original take but not originally picked? Did Sena have to go back and re-record the voice? Certainly would love to gain more insight and also just show some love to someone who helped expand the world of FFXIV for many players.
I think the criticism of the English VA could have been softer, but I can't deny that it needed improvement in some parts. THIS is more like it. They should never be afraid to go back and make it better if they have the opportunity. Like adding Alphinaud's new lines to the Vault. It only helps the story to shore up the complaint that healers always had before about not being able to save Harche. Alphi, another healer at the time, emphasizing that the damage was too great is a small detail that mattered mostly to healers, but it did matter and I'm thrilled they addressed it.
The only issue with the criticism is those applying their hatred of the character to the VA. I think the peformance was over-all not that great. I'm not sure if its the accent chosen making it hard to emote or what, but it very much didn't feel as if much emotion was really put into the perfromance which to be fair to the VA, still could be on the director and not them. To me the change makes at least this part, alright. Not amazing but alright. The first line very much should of been cut and the original left in since it comes off clunky but that's a line issue not the VA saying it issue.
@@Asin24 PERSONALLY, It has to be the direction. The Scions sound way off, and have been sounding kinda off since post-Endwalker as well. So i don't think it's the accents or the skill of the newer VAs, since even the old ones are performing worse than they did before... Which shouldn't be a thing this game struggles with. The new Lamaty'i line shows what happens when proper direction is given, this line hits so well now.
@@Gelgumi Agreed. I haven't gone through the new patch content, but what I heard in the trailers gives me hope that voice direction will be a bigger priority post-7.0. Already I want more stuff with Koana, whose VA is severely underrated.
I didn't mind the original, and I thought it was awful how people went after the VA for stuff that was all due to the director and writers. But this seems like a good update overall. They upped the audio quality on some lines too for Y'Shtola
Yeah, a lot of the issue was the writing. It was a little too "i'm going to be hokage!' Shonen way too often. Though these Voice Over changes were for the better. They no longer sound flat, you can hear more of the tension and emotion in it now.
I didn't either, but some people are a) hugely entitled and love to meme about it for clout on the internet and b) are transphobic. The changes ARE good though - they are much more in-character.
whoa what day is it I am really glad they decided to redo these lines because we know the VA has the skills, but the direction seemed to just not be correct for some of these scenes. Hopefully they do better going forward with that.
i love the campy delivery of the old sphene, but i also appreciate the precedent it helps reinforce. refurbishing old dungeons, improving the msq roulette experience, rerecording lines that may have been directed or recorded poorly are all great examples of slowly turning their game's weaknesses into strengths and its something i want them to feel enabled to do more of in the future. theres nostalgia and nuances to leaving some of the jank from yesterday in for today but *these* kinds of changes are investments for the people starting the game tomorrow. also my god i ugly cried during lyna/graha in 5.3. I almost wonder if they chose not to voice act it cause it might have been powerful enough to stop your momentum going into the seat of sacrifice. but thats a scene that id kill to hear properly done with those two incredible actors
I think you've got it exactly right about the voice director not having/giving enough context about the scene at the time of the original recording. This is so much better!
Sounds a lot better. In the original, the VA seemed to lack any direction on what was happening in the scene, so Wuk is just calmly talking while being crushed. The update makes it sound like the character is actually in the scene.
It isnt the first re-record of the ENG vaing, so I'm defo pretty happy with what they're spending time on here. Lets just hope this doesnt happen again for another 6 years lol
This was the first time I heard the new recording and wow. It sounds so much better. I heard this in game last week and I was very almost uncomfortable with how amazing the fight is until the original voice over comes in. Now it fits so much better and I love it.
I think my perfect take, being able to actually hear them back to back as you guys presented is a mix of both. Original before break New flying sphene New Hand Original SPHEEENE
The voice lines going from a definite statement to a questioning observation could also simply be the writing team doing some retcon. They might have written far enough ahead in the story now that they needed to allow things to be a bit more vague at parts to tie everything together and not have obvious plotholes. Personally I don't mind retconning and favor it when its done sooner rather than many years later.
@@koro_kokoroShe can act, other scenes in Dawntrail and this re record and even her demo reel proves that, it was the voice direction that probably didn't give good instructions on what the tone should have been, or they took one of the not so good takes The voice actors are great, but they need to be guided to act good, and they might need a few attempts to really nail it. That's on the director, not the voice actors. She also plays the game like us, she would give only her best for it.
@koro_kokoro Absolutely not, Y'shtola delivery is not always good, and her audio is weirdly mixed like she recorded with a webcam, Thancred sounds weirdly nasally and like he is out of breath. Wuk Lamat delivery was fine and she clearly wasn't the only one with issues in voice directions
Speaking of AUDIO... I dont know what happened, but it feels like a few years ago (maybe 5 now) everyone was figuring out how to make their audio not sound like complete garbage for the first time, and we were in a sort of golden age of youtube having comfy videos of people yapping. This video tok me aback, because I'm nit sure if too much of the peak has been cut off to make you sound more manly, or if the world has just degemerated back to hurting my ears for so long that I no longer know better, but thank you audio technician guy, for making this easy to listen to. I have a feeling guy with crazy hair sounds a lot hotter in person. Idk this is my first video I've watched of you guys but hot dudes playing 14 deserves a sub fo sho.
Sorry, as I was watching this I had to try out different audio outputs and I now realize your audio is just godlike. Also if ya'll have a podcast, that's probably going to be my new goto. Asom has gotten boring.
I think the re-recording does a lot of good work, and kinda wish there had been a blend of the original and the new stuff. I think I agree that the initial confusion and the later long cry of Spheeeeeeen could have stayed, but holy mackerel the new struggle against the hand is just so much better. Now if we could just pronounce Cenote similarly, I think that could wrap it up 😂
I'm glad the VA got the chance to redo the scene after seeing the actual gameplay moment, because the first take just felt like a poorly directed take, rather than poorly executed.
10:06 Oddly, I think my favorite version of this line would have been a half and half of both? something more like "Is this... a rift in reality...? She's losing control of the power!" initial confusion but a quick snap into realizing what it would mean for the current flow of events because Lamaty'i isn't technologically minded but quick to understand things happening around her.
Exactly, that line specifically is now actively bad in 7.1 despite actually being very good in 7.0. I think it shows how fragmented the various parts of the EN loc team are. The voice director not knowing the context of the literal climax of the entire story back in 7.0, and the writing team not really understanding the character nor event flow in the 7.1 rewrite, are really really bad.
its somehow beetter but still so emotionless, and i jsut wonderd why does wuk sounds like a boy in the english dub ? try the german one for once its really emotional but wuk is still a annoying little brat ehh teenager -.- ( if you combine the english and german text of a certain quest in the 3.rd new area you will learn that she was 4 when she was adopted and that happedn 13 years ago so she is 17 )
She sounds boyish in the English dub because her voice actor is trans and naturally has a deep male voice (as heard in some other games such as Unicorn Overlord).
Even being a WL hater, I have to give credit for the new reading for fixing the most glaring problems with the lack of/misplacement of emotion the first time around.
That's the only problem I ever had.I just wanted some Goddamn emotion during that highly charged moment. That part with Wuk holding up the giant hand is badass now,all because the VA sells the intensity for me.
I gotta say, this sounds much MUCH better. Definite improvement. Will be changing back to English. Let's hope this is kept up for the epilogue chapters.
While I do think her performance in the re-recording far outshines the initial one, I think the entrance scene itself is kind of, I don't want to call it cringe but I can't think of a better word for it. It's not really held back by a lack of acting, it's just feels so over-the-top Disney that I personally struggle to take it seriously.
@@acgearsandarms1343 Not sure if I'd call it lackluster. I think the scene managed to deliver what it set out to deliver, it just went in a different direction from what I'd hoped
It felt out-of-nowhere to me. A bit Deus ex Machina. I understand why they did it. Wuk Lamat and Sphene are mirrors of each other, so she needed to get involved. It just felt like they put Lamat in there because she _had_ to be there for storytelling reasons, and had trouble coming up with a good in-universe reason.
It’s a shonen anime moment, for better and for worse. Which has happened all throughout XIV, but it’s been handled more gracefully in other places. Her breaking through the barrier is literally and directly the same as Thancred doing the same thing at the end of Shadowbringers. But in ShB, the moment felt more earned, so it doesn’t grate the same way.
I love this changed read, it does the scene justice now because as its own, it's an amazing moment with the musical swell beforehand. Really clear the VA did not explain (didn't know) what was going on in the scene and now they do. I do hope they allow the VAs know more about what's going on in the cutscenes from now on, though.
Honestly, I’d be all for a mod that just replaced every Wuk Lamat voiced line with some variation of “SPHEEEEEENE!” God, I’m gonna be honest though. It still sounds horrible. Even after the rework.
I really hope they corrected that one Y’stola line, it sounded like poor audio mixing on the developers end! But I appreciated the comparison, thanks guys! You gave me a new found appreciation for the original recording haha
lmao no one cares who the VA was.. objectively the VA gave an amateurish performance. Wuk lamat being pushed at every moment of the msq did not help because it just highlighted the VAs inexperience even more, as well as made wuk lamat annoying as a character
I absolutely agree that this was the only scene that felt flat. People who said Sena had no "Emotional range" must have completely missed the scenes like after Gulool Ja Ja's death, and on the beach with the dead civilian. Sena did a great job, it was just that she lacked the context of what was happening during these last lines. Now you can HEAR the giant hand being pushed up in her voice.
@@Flawless-Walrus context matters,and I agree this new vocal take better reflects the drama in the moment. You can hear the struggle now. When this part played in the original MSQ I felt nothing. This take gave me chills.
it makes more sense for a redo on this line, being that it's a non-skippable audio line on content going forward, and not in a cutscene that players might only ever seen once in their playthrough.
I'll say it this... while I dont personally have an issue with it, I think the reason the English VA didn't yell very much is their voice cracking. I'd like to be really clear here in that I do not care myself, but just factually speaking, having a transgender VA does come with physical considerations, and I'm wondering if that had to do with the direction chosen originally.
Glad the VA got to do the line with better context to the scene. Helps a ton. Since the data realm, they might as well be physically there. So this seems more fitting imo
I think both of your points are very valid. I'm happy they changed her arrival and the lifting of the hand. In the original, her voice delivery didn't match the character's actions at all even before the hand but I do miss the original before breaking through the rift that had her sound a bit confused. Either way I feel the change was necessary and really sells the struggle of the moment. It was frustrating seeing ppl dog pile the VA over this when it was clearly a voice direction issue.
Okay, when it comes to the va changes from ARR to HW, I still miss ARR Merlwyb. I liked the rasp to her voice, she sounded nice and piratey, she was cool.
Similar to how Rover's voice lines in Wuthering Waves were adjusted to be more powerful, more chad, more OP in delivery. "Speak With Wuk Lamat again" was so last patch. Now it's "FIGHT With Wuk Lamat again."
I am so happy that Square IGNORED the Dawntrail Defense Force, took a look at valid feedback, and made changes. I didn't know they were doing this, so it caught me off guard in roulette, I was expecting the same "shouts in lower case", and thought this delivery was MUCH better. My only beef with this VA was her apparent inability to shout with emotion, and her speech from the balcony (talking in the same voice as standing next to me, not trying to project/talking to people 100s of feet away, guessing VA lacked scripted notes?). The Voice Production fell flat for Wuk here originally, I thought, and this re-recording imo greatly improved it and felt the game is improved because of that. In my roulette, everyone liked the redone voice, im curious to see more feedback in game.
I think the new voicework is significantly better that before. From all of Wuk Lamat's lines, that dialogue in the final trial was the only one that was off, in my opinion. And they fixed exactly that! So job well done, I say.
i do agree with them that this feels like before they didnt know what was happening in the scene and now they know exactly how the scene plays out and the context before the scene edit: i would love revoicing coils, or voicing more of ARR
@@lens_hunter Yeah, it's everything down the line. The voice director for all the NA actors was clearly godawful (I assume they used different directors, as the British cast is decent at worst), but it also doesn't excuse bad casting and acting. But in the end, it all comes down to godawful writing.
@@TheWickedWizardOfOz1 DT was the first time I really got burnt out on the MSQ, and also felt like playing in English wasn't a good idea. Watching people play it in Japanese or even German, wow. They nailed this shit.
I love that you mentioned that it was almost certainly voice direction that was the issue with the previous version, and likely not the VA. Hearing people blaming the VA has been driving me crazy because there are multiple other scenes where you can tell the direction was good and the VA did a fantastic job. But no, none of that mattered. Because SPHEEEEEEEEEENNNEEEEEEEEE
I kept saying that my gripe with the VA was exclusively based on performance. If we're gonna endure two more years of Wuk Lamat. The least they can do is make her VA bearable.
i didn't have issues with original one but the new one is far better. i'm glad to know newer players will get to enjoy better voice over during their MSQ. Now can we have re-recordings of the ARR stuff, that's horrific new player experience, introduction to the game.
overall I'm with y'all on where I land on this; I never had a big problem with the original, and it felt like people were blowing it out of proportion to me, but I recognize that not everyone agrees, though obviously that's no excuse for the hate Sena got specifically, but ultimately it did feel like a voice direction issue, I think it was a healthy decision to make the change
Original sounded like just line reading with little to no emotion or power behind it. With the rerecording you can feel what the Wuk Lamat is actually emotional and putting all her power to it.
I like the updated line and voice work! If I could ask for one thing, I would love them to voice Nero's speech in The Praetorium in ARR! It's long, but it really deserves to be voiced as it is nearly as iconic as Gaius speech.
Well, if we're going to nit pick, the long Sphene did feel too long, but the new one feels like it ends a bit too abruptly. Maybe a half or even a quarter second longer would end up being the sweet spot. But yeah, that's getting really nit picky. And I'm pretty much in line with Garrett about the sound of physical effort in the new version needing to be there as she pushes the hand up, but the initial confusion about what was going on also fitting better. A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B both work better. Mispronunciations in ARR you say? Surely not! Al FinawD and Yuri Anjer would never let anything such as that occur!
I want a combination of the newer voice lines, but kept that original "Spheeeeeeeeeeeeen!" line. I feel like it could hit so much harder with those emotions that were carried from the lines before now.
Okay so I dig the new version alot more. That actually sounds like Wuk cares and and its not just walking down the street to get tacos and calling out to a friend she sees a block away.
Wait, the part that people were memeing was the SECOND "sphene"!? But that was, like... the least bad part? Maybe it's a little too "anime" for some of the audience, I don't know, but it matched the emotion and the actions on the screen, at least. Much better than the first "ˢᵖʰᵉⁿᵉ" as she _tears a hole in reality and strikes her axe across the WHOLE SCREEN._ Or calmly speaking to her as you lift a hand 5 times your weight. Anyways, glad they gave it a second pass!
This was as bad as the German Yda/Lyse who gets dragged away by Thancred before Papalymo sacrifices himself. She was dragged away and said it so casual as she was just talking. I’m so glad they re-recorded it.
I really like the new recording and the effort you hear in the voice acting. I just feel bad that there were enough complaints about it that they made her do it again. It was fine before. It's improved now, but didn't need to be better in my opinion.
It's a good change. Her original recording didn't sound like she was straining at all. It sounded like she was just angry and trying to talk Sphene down while sitting around a table having a coffee together. No voice cracking at all in the original recording. Like I get why, but I think the recording needed it, and when compared to other dubs, indeed, it is the lacking factor.
I think I like the newer recordings. It has more, well, resolve in what she needs to do. I really wanted Wuk Lamat to feel less naive and more changed as we went through the expansion - this doesn't "fix" it all for me, but I do think it makes it a bit better.
See, this is what was missing, actual emotion in the VA's voice. Like I remember hearing the German voice for Wuk Lamat and going "where was this in the English voice work?" Does she also sound a lot more raspy also? Like as if she might've strained her vocal cords to deliver these lines? If so, I feel for her, it can really thrash your voice. Had a friend who only wanted me to be the "loud and obnoxious" one of his streams back in high school so he could get more viewers. After I regained my voice, I stopped being loud, lesson well learned
I think you guys hit the nail on the head early on in your discussion. The issue with the original voice lines is that they just. didn't. fit. the visuals. That's less-so a subjective thing than saying "the voice acting sounded memey here" because there are key features you can point to (like you did about the strain in the voice while holding up a GIGANTIC HAND). When things feel so out of place, to the point where it becomes comical, it opens itself up to becoming a meme like this did.
I reaaaally like the new vo rework. I didnt cringe at all, and i always keep cutscenes on when i replay new game+ and trials. This was a pleasant surprise i wasnt expecting
My only complaint throughout the entirety of DT was this one scene, specifically the part where she was lifting the hand. I like the longer "SPHEEEENE" but in the original there was no change in tone of voice. This time it feels like a struggle and I like that. But I agree it was down to vocal direction because I could see a scene like this being hidden from the actors not knowing what is actually going on.
![What makes Ultimate, Savage, Extreme different? [FFXIV High End Raiding]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/g3hg9AZL4Ew/mqdefault.jpg)
![What makes Ultimate, Savage, Extreme different? [FFXIV High End Raiding]](/img/tr.png)
![These Updated Voice Lines are INCREDBILE! [7.0 MSQ Spoilers]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/katRu3V7QmM/mqdefault.jpg)
remember us, remember that we once sphene.
You mean SPHEEEEEEEEEEEEEENE
Sphone
I memba
Died laughing at this comment 😆
Spheeeeeeeeneee!
Just like the grapes... Lost to time, like tears in rain.
Skybear as well.
lost to time, like sphenes in memes.
@@Ryotsu2112I don't know this
meme... What are you talking about?
Ping
Who the f is listening to this in English???? Wtf
On the topic of VAs having context about the larger game world: I find it kind of amusingly ironic that one of the few VAs that actually played FFXIV before joining the game and knew all of its esoteric terminology out of the gate was picked to play the shonen-est main character who knew fuckall about any of that. 😂
It's Day 2 of 7.1, and I had been waiting for someone- ANYONE- to produce some sort of low-effort video comparing pre- and post-patch SPHENES. I am so proud of you guys that it was your low-effort (lol) video that the algorithm presented me. Truly embracing your current-content era!
Why? Both are garbage. Just put on Japanese voices. What is wrong with you people
@@KainsAddiction these screams weeb energy.... The 2nd recording is fine.
@@KainsAddiction cuz some of us can like different voice overs and not hate on others.
@@sheldmaster Imagine liking objectively subpar voices by a dude pretending to be a girl, pretending to be a furry.
@@KainsAddiction haha really my dude thats more of your opinion not fact. a lot of players like the en va i can understand it doesn't click for everyone and thats fine.
It sounded like Y'Shtola's throne room arrival dialogue was a lot cleaner and not as "recorded via cellphone" as before.
I'm so glad Wuk Lamat no longer sounds perfectly relaxed and unbothered after being crushed by the giant hand anymore.
Oh really? Will have to check that out. Was one of things I was thinking of when I was talking about the seemingly random quality of room echo effects in XIV cutscenes.
That was the first scene I thought of when I saw the patchnote line about english voice dialogue being adjusted. Clearly the VA was using some different setup and was unable to record it properly due to some time crunch.
Yup Y'shtola got fixed too, and also Wuk Lamat's "My happiness is your happiness" line from the succession also got changed apparently
@@NoName1462oh snap,for real?😮
That was another moment where I just wanted more emotion.
@@SovietmassI've read that Y'shtola's voice actress was either heavily pregnant or recently had a baby around the time the voices were recorded, so the theory is that somebody must've said "oh, it's okay, you don't have to come down to the recording studio then. You only got like 10 lines anyway. Just record them at home and send them in." Which can work, but somebody needs to do some mixing and Post-Processing on the audio to make it sound decent, which they didn't do.
Not the first time they've done this. They re-did Asahi's rant just before his death in the patches leading up to EW, his original performance was too subdued and didn't really fit the animation, the re-record is much more emotional. This took years to be done though, since they didn't have a reason to get the VA back in to booth until Fandanial showed up.
Fascinating, I never knew that scene was changed! I'll have to have a look at some point.
Wait seriously? That scene always bothered me I was wondering if they'd do it next. Cool to hear
At least it sounds like the voice director finally understood the assignment.
Well said! I always thought it was more a problem of direction than the voice actress.
Not the idea of casting someone with talent though
@@koro_kokoro certainly not you at least.
@@koro_kokoro still on that train huh?
@@Eiensakura I don’t pretend to be
You guys missed this, but during the ascension ceremony on launch.. the wuk voice lines referenced the hanu area for the Yok Huy story. Like it was straight up wrong, but fixed by the time you guys got to it. That kinda points to Garret's production/direction issues suspicions. So if you have one character doing the most talking... well odds are they are going to get hit by the most production issues (either mistranslated/literally picking acension_5.wav when you meant to pick acension_6.wav etc).
Damn. English VO direction really needs a kick this expac. Wonder if it's new staff.
@@Yvanne Part of it was compressed production schedule because of the SAG-AFTA strikes, was my understanding. The EU teams weren't impacted, but the US based VAs couldn't record until a bit later.
We need a re-record of the entire Praetorium. I wish they'd redo all Gaius' lines with the actor from Shadowbringers. And Cid's "Don't even think about dying, you're too bloody useful" is teeerrrible :)
Oh man. Forgot about that Cid line. That shit is ROUGH.
No please don't touch "Such devastation" that is so iconic. Cid, though, hard agree.
To that end, there's something to be said for most of ARR. Go back and do something like Coils, and listen to Aliaie's lines. Whew lad. Ironically I never had too much of a problem with Sam Riegel's Alphinaud, but replacing the ARR VAing for cohesion would be nice.
they already removed the "how very glib" part, which baffled me at the time but the more I thought about it, based on what I've seen of Gaius through post StB and through ShB, I now feel like it was that the devs decided that it wasn't something that Gaius would say and it makes sense to me.
@@scotty110 There was also a dialogue choice beforehand in the very first version, which prompted the line. When they first made cutscenes unskippable, they removed the dialogue choice but not Gaius's response.
I'm 100% for Jean Gilpin as Merlwyb again, even if it's the exact same lines as before.
OG Merlwyb supremacy.
she COMMANDED authority with every word. OG Merlwyb was amazing. :D
@@SageTigerStar it was like you were holding a certain daedric artifact eh? ;)
I feel like Merlwyb is the only character who got a downgrade when they did the VA change. I do like new Merlwyb, but it doesn't hit the same.
@@hypercube8735 Yeah, I've finally gotten used to the new voice, and while I never hated it, I do feel it's a shame they went hard into the Pirates of the Caribbean style of voice for most all of Limsa. I actually liked the idea of a huge group of pirates not having the stereotypical accent, or at least having a mishmash of accents from all over. That would have been awesome!
Wuk Lamats growing confidence really shines through in these lines now, capturing her transformation as a powerful figure. The vocal struggle and intensity in her tone give players a deeper sense of how formidable the mecha boss truly is, emphasizing the high stakes of the encounter.
Well put, the original was way off
You have to be joking. It's still garbage. Play the game in it's native language and read the words we're given, instead of watching this side job version.
@@2inverse469 ... the game doesn't have a native language, the scripts are developed in eng and jp simultaneously
if you'd paid attention to any interviews with the dev team you would know that
I didn't mind the English VO work in DT, but I also thought it often sounded a little rushed and below their standards. (Actually a lot of the sound mixing in general.) I'm glad they're taking the time and effort to clean some of it up.
The English dub for wuk’lamat isn’t bad if you don’t mind nails on a chalkboard
None of it was "below standards". I don't understand what "standards" people think the VAs were supposed to meet? They sounded great to me.
@@koro_kokoro That's a lie and you know it.
@@laerwen There were definite rough patches, rougher than normal. Things like awkward music placement and Yshtola's poor audio mixing quality. Even the script had obvious errors - in the big cutscene where Wuk Lamat is becoming the new ruler, one of the lines gets Urqopacha and Kozama'uka confused.
95% of the VA criticism is nonsense, but I think it initially came from the writing and audio in general sounding like it never had a QA pass.
@@laerwen This dude is trolling every single comment, he should be totally ignored.
Sphene joins the Squapes, forever in our hearts. Though I'm very happy they gave the VA to take a crack at it with better direction.
Im so glad they are taking this to heart and actually changing stuff. DT suffered from really poor English VA quality, not just Wuk. Some of the scions sounded like they phoned in their lines and Thancred had this weird nose breathing thing going on in some scenes to name a few examples. We know for a fact all these VA's can perform well (yes even Wuk's VA, she has an amazing demo reel where she does yelling and emotional acting just fine) and yet performance was mediocre throughout the entire expansion. I dont think all the VA's got together and all decided to perform badly the entire expansion on purpose so the problem lies with VA directing. I know Alphinaud's VA has previously talked about receiving poor VA directing (for example a director is supposed to say things like "make a sound like you are jumping into water" so the VA has context for the line they are saying) and when the directing is bad you get really awkward flat line readings like when Wuk "yells in lowercase". However i have heard people say the English VA director didn't even know the context for scenes because SE was afraid of leaking spoilers, which is absolutely insane.
Anyway, im really glad they are dealing with this now before they can do more damage. Hopefully VA's will be given proper directing from now on.
Sena's VA director did not know the context, therefore she yelled in lowercase (a good description). The problem is this: why does the XIV community feel it's perfectly fine to then send death threats? (Hint: transphobia's a hell of a drug - the root of the "criticism")
Thancred was a big one for me. I couldn't say what was wrong but he just sounded off
Afraid of leaking spoilers sounds like an excuse.
They had a changing of the guard in the writing team leadership for this expansion. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the new leads falling behind due to inexperience and messing up the production schedule.
Explains the first draft energy of a bunch of dialogue, the auto-advancing unvoiced cutscenes, and the bonkers outcome of having a new entry character given such a large proportion of the dialogue the expansion lives or dies by one rushed performance.
Poor Wuk is having to carry the equivalent of Emet and the Exarch together, if both of them had been with the party for all of ShB.
@@laerwen well about death threads. What you want, if Sena was so antagonizing in Shitter about almost everything against her or Smile or etc? That's the reason. It is good? No ofc. People just attacked very bad person because that bad person. But attack like this only because of SPIIIN? Nah, it's ridiculously. (And I ger banned on reddit for that words :D)
That reel is in male voice lmao
you guys deserve this kind of quality with such takes honestly
according to reddit, which means of course it must be true, apparently even the voice director wasn't told what the scene was. I hope this convinces SE to stop being so paranoid about spoilers and tell them what they need to know >
It's not quite that simple. Depending on where in the process the VA work is actually recorded, they might not even have anything close to completed scenes to go on. Rough cuts, story boards, maybe even just an outline. Minor tonal mismatches like this happen all the time throughout the gaming industry... hell, there are mismatches this shot all the way through 14 itself. This one got picked up and memed on because of the DT reception.
@@rabid_si If all the VD had was a storyboard or something at this point, that's not great but understandable, but if they were truly given NOTHING but the text dialogue, regardless of the reason, that... that sucks, man.
@@rabid_si The DT reception: which is entitled nonsense, for the most part.
I sometimes wonder why dont they record it like japanese-style: have the video plays without any sound and the VA voices over it
As optimistic as your "with the old cast" re-record of ARR is, I'm very much of the opinion the game needs ARR:Remastered to launch alongside 8.0 just for longevity's sake and at that point you'd use the new cast. Restructure it slightly, strip out the worst grinds, silo-off some bits that really should be side-quests, make Crystal Tower the MSQ main thrust of 2.1-3 and Crystal Braves the b-plot. Probably should come with a level crunch down to around 30 too just to kick the "what do we do after level 100" can down the road a bit more.
Okay, but making the Crystal Braves the b-plot and then having them come back to hit hard during the Bloody Banquet would actually be amazing (and it would feel less obvious of a plot twist)
I agree, the crystal tower being mandatory for the MSQ yet being shown as a blue quest is dumb. The worst part of it is that some players think it's uninportant because it's a sidequests so they skip all the cutscenes thinking it won't matter.
They need to change it to be a MSQ icon so people don't missinterpret it as "ughhhh, why do i have to do sidequests?"
You can finally hear the panic in Wuk Lamat in that first scene. Definitely an improvement
As someone who voice acts, directs voice actors, and has played a lot of FF14, I'm glad they made these changes. I was pretty neutral on Wuk Lamat for most of Dawntrail but her flat yells, not only during this fight but in other places as well, were definitely a huge detriment. Most of the time in instances like this it is rarely the actor's fault for a lackluster final product. Either they were given poor/incorrect direction, they were miscast, or (and you guys brought this up too) even the director didn't know the full context of the scene. I don't feel like Wuk Lamat was miscast but with several scenes I felt like Sena Bryer was hitting the "acting wall", where she couldn't get enough emotions across. She got louder but the emotions didn't get stronger so it just came across as a flat delivery. Which I understand, had to break through that myself and still see VAs struggle with it. But I no longer feel that with these new takes and I'm glad Square went the extra mile to fix things. Hopefully Sena will get some reprieve from this cause the internet went way to far against her.
Agreed, I thought people went too far against her.
It sounds like even the voice directors weren't really given enough context for the scene (images, music, clips). I hope this becomes a learning lesson for the devs, because this shows that proper VO direction can drastically improve the experience.
I wouldn't have had any problem with this performance if this is what I got on my first Dawntrail playthrough.
Yeah that's what I picked up. Also with how people found her character extremely annoying. Based on my experience with those types of characters, she was supposed to be the endearingly annoying type. You roll your eyes at her, but you love her all the same. And with the voice acting, it fell short, especially during the emotional parts, so all that came across was the annoying.
Tbh I think they got the proper response "too far." While I will say for me it was the voice in game at first, but then was also because the VA themselves are actually kind of a crap person irl. Trying to get a VA for Guilty Gear's Bridget fired because they aren't trans is pretty messed up. Not to mention, trying to label people racist for not liking the song Smile is off the wall too they called is gospel music. However, as a black man whose heard actual gospel music, it wasn't.
@@ozmintheobserver I didn't have much of a problem with the song.I just thought it was misused.If it only appeared at the end it would have been fine with me.
Thancred, to Wuk Lamat: "Your turn, huh?"
You know he'd be yelling it
The one I would love to see recorded in the first place was scene in 5.3 between graha and and cap Lyna goodbye.
Lumpy birthday cakes ftw! 🥲
Is anyone else old enough that when they hear someone say "please be kind" they also automatically add "rewind" in their heads?
The full phrase also makes me think of the locker scene in MIB II.
"BE KIND! REWIND!"
"Go back and reconcile your past, in order to move tranquilly into your future!"
Yeah, wow. That's HEAPS better. Wuk actually sounds like she wants Sphene to listen to her last desparate plea now.
I saw the patch note about voice dialog but didn't know it was for this scene specifically. When I first went through it, I honestly didn't even give it a single thought about it being anything out of the ordinary and have largely enjoyed the voice acting for what it was. The tone between the original take and the current take is an interesting difference - though given Wuk Lamat's general personality, I feel like the original makes sense in context in the story.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing you two interview the VA - Sena Bryer. Sena jumped into the story when SE is trying to start a new chapter and I would love to hear from Sena's perspective on how it was to give an english voice to Wuk Lamat or even hear how the redubbing of the lines went? Like was it in the original take but not originally picked? Did Sena have to go back and re-record the voice? Certainly would love to gain more insight and also just show some love to someone who helped expand the world of FFXIV for many players.
Yeah, overall the whole scene is so much better directed
It probably helps that now the VA has played through the trial
I think the criticism of the English VA could have been softer, but I can't deny that it needed improvement in some parts. THIS is more like it. They should never be afraid to go back and make it better if they have the opportunity. Like adding Alphinaud's new lines to the Vault. It only helps the story to shore up the complaint that healers always had before about not being able to save Harche. Alphi, another healer at the time, emphasizing that the damage was too great is a small detail that mattered mostly to healers, but it did matter and I'm thrilled they addressed it.
The only issue with the criticism is those applying their hatred of the character to the VA. I think the peformance was over-all not that great. I'm not sure if its the accent chosen making it hard to emote or what, but it very much didn't feel as if much emotion was really put into the perfromance which to be fair to the VA, still could be on the director and not them. To me the change makes at least this part, alright. Not amazing but alright. The first line very much should of been cut and the original left in since it comes off clunky but that's a line issue not the VA saying it issue.
@@Asin24 PERSONALLY, It has to be the direction. The Scions sound way off, and have been sounding kinda off since post-Endwalker as well. So i don't think it's the accents or the skill of the newer VAs, since even the old ones are performing worse than they did before... Which shouldn't be a thing this game struggles with.
The new Lamaty'i line shows what happens when proper direction is given, this line hits so well now.
@@Gelgumi Agreed.
I haven't gone through the new patch content, but what I heard in the trailers gives me hope that voice direction will be a bigger priority post-7.0. Already I want more stuff with Koana, whose VA is severely underrated.
@@Gelgumi According to Sena Bryer herself, it wasn't even the direction. It is that they do not have enough information.
@@laerwen That's part of the voice direction job, they literally just had these people read the lines with no context and call it a day.
ooooo wayyyyyyyy better! holy shit what an upgrade, great work to Wuk LaVoice and the va director
I didn't mind the original, and I thought it was awful how people went after the VA for stuff that was all due to the director and writers. But this seems like a good update overall. They upped the audio quality on some lines too for Y'Shtola
There is a segment of the population who were already going to attack Wuk Lamat's VA no matter what
Yeah, a lot of the issue was the writing. It was a little too "i'm going to be hokage!' Shonen way too often. Though these Voice Over changes were for the better. They no longer sound flat, you can hear more of the tension and emotion in it now.
it's because the VA is an awful human being
I didn't either, but some people are a) hugely entitled and love to meme about it for clout on the internet and b) are transphobic. The changes ARE good though - they are much more in-character.
@@laerwenYou're damn right, i don't like the character and this voice actor hurts my ears every time, im obviously transphobic. What a soy rofl
whoa what day is it
I am really glad they decided to redo these lines because we know the VA has the skills, but the direction seemed to just not be correct for some of these scenes. Hopefully they do better going forward with that.
i love the campy delivery of the old sphene, but i also appreciate the precedent it helps reinforce. refurbishing old dungeons, improving the msq roulette experience, rerecording lines that may have been directed or recorded poorly are all great examples of slowly turning their game's weaknesses into strengths and its something i want them to feel enabled to do more of in the future. theres nostalgia and nuances to leaving some of the jank from yesterday in for today but *these* kinds of changes are investments for the people starting the game tomorrow.
also my god i ugly cried during lyna/graha in 5.3. I almost wonder if they chose not to voice act it cause it might have been powerful enough to stop your momentum going into the seat of sacrifice. but thats a scene that id kill to hear properly done with those two incredible actors
I think you've got it exactly right about the voice director not having/giving enough context about the scene at the time of the original recording. This is so much better!
Now my head is running wild with other meme voice lines to change.
"Sickness must be PUUUUUUUUUUUURGED"
Absolutely not! You can pry my Charibert memes from my cold dead hands!
For Victory I render up my AWWWWLLL!
This is... ExSphene...
Sounds a lot better. In the original, the VA seemed to lack any direction on what was happening in the scene, so Wuk is just calmly talking while being crushed. The update makes it sound like the character is actually in the scene.
It isnt the first re-record of the ENG vaing, so I'm defo pretty happy with what they're spending time on here. Lets just hope this doesnt happen again for another 6 years lol
you mean like how it took 7-8 years to add Alphinaud attempting to heal Haurchefaunt?
@@scotty110 Nah I mean Asahi's lines in 4.3, alphi is more just an addition rather than a re-dub
This was the first time I heard the new recording and wow. It sounds so much better. I heard this in game last week and I was very almost uncomfortable with how amazing the fight is until the original voice over comes in.
Now it fits so much better and I love it.
I think my perfect take, being able to actually hear them back to back as you guys presented is a mix of both.
Original before break
New flying sphene
New Hand
Original SPHEEENE
honestly this
This is so much better! Definetely a goosebump moment worthy now! While before...not really.
The voice lines going from a definite statement to a questioning observation could also simply be the writing team doing some retcon. They might have written far enough ahead in the story now that they needed to allow things to be a bit more vague at parts to tie everything together and not have obvious plotholes. Personally I don't mind retconning and favor it when its done sooner rather than many years later.
given the VA also plays the game, that might have helped too since she knew the scenes :)
sphenes...
If only she could act.
@@koro_kokoroShe can act, other scenes in Dawntrail and this re record and even her demo reel proves that, it was the voice direction that probably didn't give good instructions on what the tone should have been, or they took one of the not so good takes
The voice actors are great, but they need to be guided to act good, and they might need a few attempts to really nail it. That's on the director, not the voice actors.
She also plays the game like us, she would give only her best for it.
@@Sweatopod98 the other actors are great, on par with the rest of the expansions, Wuk is the exception. Every cutscene with her was pain
@koro_kokoro Absolutely not, Y'shtola delivery is not always good, and her audio is weirdly mixed like she recorded with a webcam, Thancred sounds weirdly nasally and like he is out of breath. Wuk Lamat delivery was fine and she clearly wasn't the only one with issues in voice directions
Speaking of AUDIO... I dont know what happened, but it feels like a few years ago (maybe 5 now) everyone was figuring out how to make their audio not sound like complete garbage for the first time, and we were in a sort of golden age of youtube having comfy videos of people yapping. This video tok me aback, because I'm nit sure if too much of the peak has been cut off to make you sound more manly, or if the world has just degemerated back to hurting my ears for so long that I no longer know better, but thank you audio technician guy, for making this easy to listen to. I have a feeling guy with crazy hair sounds a lot hotter in person. Idk this is my first video I've watched of you guys but hot dudes playing 14 deserves a sub fo sho.
Sorry, as I was watching this I had to try out different audio outputs and I now realize your audio is just godlike. Also if ya'll have a podcast, that's probably going to be my new goto. Asom has gotten boring.
I think the re-recording does a lot of good work, and kinda wish there had been a blend of the original and the new stuff. I think I agree that the initial confusion and the later long cry of Spheeeeeeen could have stayed, but holy mackerel the new struggle against the hand is just so much better.
Now if we could just pronounce Cenote similarly, I think that could wrap it up 😂
Her re-recording is SO MUCH BETTER. She did an amazing job in the new voice over
I'm glad the VA got the chance to redo the scene after seeing the actual gameplay moment, because the first take just felt like a poorly directed take, rather than poorly executed.
Disagree, the accent still feels like a series of racial slurs.
Can still tell the VAs balls dropped during recording.
10:06 Oddly, I think my favorite version of this line would have been a half and half of both?
something more like
"Is this... a rift in reality...? She's losing control of the power!"
initial confusion but a quick snap into realizing what it would mean for the current flow of events because Lamaty'i isn't technologically minded but quick to understand things happening around her.
Exactly, that line specifically is now actively bad in 7.1 despite actually being very good in 7.0. I think it shows how fragmented the various parts of the EN loc team are. The voice director not knowing the context of the literal climax of the entire story back in 7.0, and the writing team not really understanding the character nor event flow in the 7.1 rewrite, are really really bad.
its somehow beetter but still so emotionless, and i jsut wonderd why does wuk sounds like a boy in the english dub ? try the german one for once its really emotional but wuk is still a annoying little brat ehh teenager -.- ( if you combine the english and german text of a certain quest in the 3.rd new area you will learn that she was 4 when she was adopted and that happedn 13 years ago so she is 17 )
She sounds boyish in the English dub because her voice actor is trans and naturally has a deep male voice (as heard in some other games such as Unicorn Overlord).
I know I might get a little flak for this, buuuut... when the next expansion comes out, how many people do you think are gonna buy a Dawntrail skip?
Even being a WL hater, I have to give credit for the new reading for fixing the most glaring problems with the lack of/misplacement of emotion the first time around.
That's the only problem I ever had.I just wanted some Goddamn emotion during that highly charged moment.
That part with Wuk holding up the giant hand is badass now,all because the VA sells the intensity for me.
"Wuk Lamat hater" Do you go around introducing yourself that way?
@@laerwenit's relevant to the video topic? 😅
3:36 Night and day. Suits the scene way better and VA was top notch! 👌
I gotta say, this sounds much MUCH better. Definite improvement. Will be changing back to English. Let's hope this is kept up for the epilogue chapters.
While I do think her performance in the re-recording far outshines the initial one, I think the entrance scene itself is kind of, I don't want to call it cringe but I can't think of a better word for it. It's not really held back by a lack of acting, it's just feels so over-the-top Disney that I personally struggle to take it seriously.
Lackluster?
@@acgearsandarms1343 Not sure if I'd call it lackluster. I think the scene managed to deliver what it set out to deliver, it just went in a different direction from what I'd hoped
It felt out-of-nowhere to me. A bit Deus ex Machina.
I understand why they did it. Wuk Lamat and Sphene are mirrors of each other, so she needed to get involved. It just felt like they put Lamat in there because she _had_ to be there for storytelling reasons, and had trouble coming up with a good in-universe reason.
@ericbright1742 I completely agree wirh this, when I did this fight thr first time here coming in really took me out and broke up the flow for me
It’s a shonen anime moment, for better and for worse. Which has happened all throughout XIV, but it’s been handled more gracefully in other places.
Her breaking through the barrier is literally and directly the same as Thancred doing the same thing at the end of Shadowbringers. But in ShB, the moment felt more earned, so it doesn’t grate the same way.
I love this changed read, it does the scene justice now because as its own, it's an amazing moment with the musical swell beforehand. Really clear the VA did not explain (didn't know) what was going on in the scene and now they do. I do hope they allow the VAs know more about what's going on in the cutscenes from now on, though.
On board with the new recording 100%, no notes. Good change!
Honestly, I’d be all for a mod that just replaced every Wuk Lamat voiced line with some variation of “SPHEEEEEENE!”
God, I’m gonna be honest though. It still sounds horrible. Even after the rework.
I think the rift in reality and the sphene line didnt need to change. But im glad the others line were much much better.
I really hope they corrected that one Y’stola line, it sounded like poor audio mixing on the developers end!
But I appreciated the comparison, thanks guys! You gave me a new found appreciation for the original recording haha
I rolled my eyes when people complained about Wuk Lamat's VA. This scene was the only scene I felt actually needed new work. Glad they fixed it.
lmao no one cares who the VA was.. objectively the VA gave an amateurish performance. Wuk lamat being pushed at every moment of the msq did not help because it just highlighted the VAs inexperience even more, as well as made wuk lamat annoying as a character
I absolutely agree that this was the only scene that felt flat. People who said Sena had no "Emotional range" must have completely missed the scenes like after Gulool Ja Ja's death, and on the beach with the dead civilian. Sena did a great job, it was just that she lacked the context of what was happening during these last lines. Now you can HEAR the giant hand being pushed up in her voice.
@@Flawless-Walrus context matters,and I agree this new vocal take better reflects the drama in the moment. You can hear the struggle now.
When this part played in the original MSQ I felt nothing. This take gave me chills.
What I learned is that this community will *never* be pleased..even if the game was perfect.
It still sucks lmao. She is a terrible voice actor and it was also terrible directing. The whole thing sucks
I love how nobody just comes out and says Woke Lamats voice sucks complete ass.
it makes more sense for a redo on this line, being that it's a non-skippable audio line on content going forward, and not in a cutscene that players might only ever seen once in their playthrough.
Had no qualms with the original delivery, but this is certainly an improvement!
The rains have ceased, and we have been graced with another beautiful day. But you are not here to sphene it it.
I'll say it this... while I dont personally have an issue with it, I think the reason the English VA didn't yell very much is their voice cracking. I'd like to be really clear here in that I do not care myself, but just factually speaking, having a transgender VA does come with physical considerations, and I'm wondering if that had to do with the direction chosen originally.
Glad the VA got to do the line with better context to the scene. Helps a ton. Since the data realm, they might as well be physically there. So this seems more fitting imo
I think both of your points are very valid. I'm happy they changed her arrival and the lifting of the hand. In the original, her voice delivery didn't match the character's actions at all even before the hand but I do miss the original before breaking through the rift that had her sound a bit confused. Either way I feel the change was necessary and really sells the struggle of the moment. It was frustrating seeing ppl dog pile the VA over this when it was clearly a voice direction issue.
God those voice lines sound so much better more aggressive/ anger in them.
Okay, when it comes to the va changes from ARR to HW, I still miss ARR Merlwyb. I liked the rasp to her voice, she sounded nice and piratey, she was cool.
Similar to how Rover's voice lines in Wuthering Waves were adjusted to be more powerful, more chad, more OP in delivery. "Speak With Wuk Lamat again" was so last patch. Now it's "FIGHT With Wuk Lamat again."
I am so happy that Square IGNORED the Dawntrail Defense Force, took a look at valid feedback, and made changes. I didn't know they were doing this, so it caught me off guard in roulette, I was expecting the same "shouts in lower case", and thought this delivery was MUCH better. My only beef with this VA was her apparent inability to shout with emotion, and her speech from the balcony (talking in the same voice as standing next to me, not trying to project/talking to people 100s of feet away, guessing VA lacked scripted notes?). The Voice Production fell flat for Wuk here originally, I thought, and this re-recording imo greatly improved it and felt the game is improved because of that. In my roulette, everyone liked the redone voice, im curious to see more feedback in game.
I think the new voicework is significantly better that before. From all of Wuk Lamat's lines, that dialogue in the final trial was the only one that was off, in my opinion. And they fixed exactly that! So job well done, I say.
F in chat for Thancred's original "My turn"
man I miss the original MY TURN
i do agree with them that this feels like before they didnt know what was happening in the scene and now they know exactly how the scene plays out and the context before the scene
edit: i would love revoicing coils, or voicing more of ARR
This, if anything, proves what I’ve been saying since Dawntrail dropped; that production and direction were the issues, NOT the actors and artists.
The writing is the issue. Everything else is secondary.
The actors still sucked lol. They have just tried to paint a turd with wuk lamat. Its stiff fucking sucks
I dont understand why just because the direction was bad that the actors get a total pass. It can be both.
@@lens_hunter Yeah, it's everything down the line. The voice director for all the NA actors was clearly godawful (I assume they used different directors, as the British cast is decent at worst), but it also doesn't excuse bad casting and acting.
But in the end, it all comes down to godawful writing.
@@TheWickedWizardOfOz1 DT was the first time I really got burnt out on the MSQ, and also felt like playing in English wasn't a good idea. Watching people play it in Japanese or even German, wow. They nailed this shit.
I love that you mentioned that it was almost certainly voice direction that was the issue with the previous version, and likely not the VA. Hearing people blaming the VA has been driving me crazy because there are multiple other scenes where you can tell the direction was good and the VA did a fantastic job.
But no, none of that mattered.
Because SPHEEEEEEEEEENNNEEEEEEEEE
People blamed the VA because of who the VA is, they were going to attack anyway even if the performance was flawless throughout the whole expansion
@@JohnDCraftonWho is the VA? More importantly how would that change the horrible accent?
I kept saying that my gripe with the VA was exclusively based on performance. If we're gonna endure two more years of Wuk Lamat. The least they can do is make her VA bearable.
Bye Speen, listen to me.
Hello STEEEEEEENE, LISTAN TA MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
i didn't have issues with original one but the new one is far better. i'm glad to know newer players will get to enjoy better voice over during their MSQ.
Now can we have re-recordings of the ARR stuff, that's horrific new player experience, introduction to the game.
I'm still devastated over the loss of the glib in Prae
I do appreciate Garrett immediately acknowledging how the meme was memed for pretty shitty reasons
overall I'm with y'all on where I land on this; I never had a big problem with the original, and it felt like people were blowing it out of proportion to me, but I recognize that not everyone agrees, though obviously that's no excuse for the hate Sena got specifically, but ultimately it did feel like a voice direction issue, I think it was a healthy decision to make the change
but I do like the new one a ton, its an excellent read! Sena blew out her voice doing that take, apparently @_@;;
Nah they chose the wrong voice actor to play wuk, they should get a woman next time
everyone have fun reporting transphobes in the replies! trans women are women whether you think they are or not 💖
@@CFHistory you can say that all you want but it doesn't change the fact that trans "woman" don't sound like woman
Sorry but the emotion of the German dub is still way better than this
Original sounded like just line reading with little to no emotion or power behind it. With the rerecording you can feel what the Wuk Lamat is actually emotional and putting all her power to it.
I like the updated line and voice work! If I could ask for one thing, I would love them to voice Nero's speech in The Praetorium in ARR! It's long, but it really deserves to be voiced as it is nearly as iconic as Gaius speech.
Night and day difference, HUGE improvement.
I like the new take. They didn’t need to do it but it’s an improvement
I honestly didn't even notice that the first recording was supposedly "bad" but I admit I prefer this second version.
Personally, I actually love this update. It sounds real. Great job to the voice actress!
Well, if we're going to nit pick, the long Sphene did feel too long, but the new one feels like it ends a bit too abruptly. Maybe a half or even a quarter second longer would end up being the sweet spot. But yeah, that's getting really nit picky. And I'm pretty much in line with Garrett about the sound of physical effort in the new version needing to be there as she pushes the hand up, but the initial confusion about what was going on also fitting better. A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B both work better.
Mispronunciations in ARR you say? Surely not! Al FinawD and Yuri Anjer would never let anything such as that occur!
I want a combination of the newer voice lines, but kept that original "Spheeeeeeeeeeeeen!" line. I feel like it could hit so much harder with those emotions that were carried from the lines before now.
Okay so I dig the new version alot more. That actually sounds like Wuk cares and and its not just walking down the street to get tacos and calling out to a friend she sees a block away.
Wait, the part that people were memeing was the SECOND "sphene"!? But that was, like... the least bad part? Maybe it's a little too "anime" for some of the audience, I don't know, but it matched the emotion and the actions on the screen, at least. Much better than the first "ˢᵖʰᵉⁿᵉ" as she _tears a hole in reality and strikes her axe across the WHOLE SCREEN._ Or calmly speaking to her as you lift a hand 5 times your weight. Anyways, glad they gave it a second pass!
This was as bad as the German Yda/Lyse who gets dragged away by Thancred before Papalymo sacrifices himself. She was dragged away and said it so casual as she was just talking. I’m so glad they re-recorded it.
I really like the new recording and the effort you hear in the voice acting. I just feel bad that there were enough complaints about it that they made her do it again. It was fine before. It's improved now, but didn't need to be better in my opinion.
It's a good change. Her original recording didn't sound like she was straining at all. It sounded like she was just angry and trying to talk Sphene down while sitting around a table having a coffee together. No voice cracking at all in the original recording. Like I get why, but I think the recording needed it, and when compared to other dubs, indeed, it is the lacking factor.
I think I like the newer recordings. It has more, well, resolve in what she needs to do. I really wanted Wuk Lamat to feel less naive and more changed as we went through the expansion - this doesn't "fix" it all for me, but I do think it makes it a bit better.
See, this is what was missing, actual emotion in the VA's voice. Like I remember hearing the German voice for Wuk Lamat and going "where was this in the English voice work?"
Does she also sound a lot more raspy also? Like as if she might've strained her vocal cords to deliver these lines? If so, I feel for her, it can really thrash your voice. Had a friend who only wanted me to be the "loud and obnoxious" one of his streams back in high school so he could get more viewers. After I regained my voice, I stopped being loud, lesson well learned
I think you guys hit the nail on the head early on in your discussion. The issue with the original voice lines is that they just. didn't. fit. the visuals. That's less-so a subjective thing than saying "the voice acting sounded memey here" because there are key features you can point to (like you did about the strain in the voice while holding up a GIGANTIC HAND). When things feel so out of place, to the point where it becomes comical, it opens itself up to becoming a meme like this did.
Spheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen will always live on in our hearts.
Excellent takes
Look!!! Nuanced and not over-reactionary content about Wuk Lamat's VA?? Who would've thought this still existed. (thanks for being well adjusted guys)
I reaaaally like the new vo rework. I didnt cringe at all, and i always keep cutscenes on when i replay new game+ and trials. This was a pleasant surprise i wasnt expecting
Very apropos!
My only complaint throughout the entirety of DT was this one scene, specifically the part where she was lifting the hand. I like the longer "SPHEEEENE" but in the original there was no change in tone of voice. This time it feels like a struggle and I like that.
But I agree it was down to vocal direction because I could see a scene like this being hidden from the actors not knowing what is actually going on.