When I heard that Ellie died 75 times, I decided that I need to replay the first DS to see if I could do better. I beat it once without any trouble on KEYBOARD and MOUSE 12 years ago, but now I'm struggling with some fights in Arkham Knight on normal difficulty
I'd love to hear how you do! I'm very impressed that you could complete the game on keyboard and mouse, I imagine I would play absolutely terribly using those, lol.
@@Wilson-108 17 deaths to beat Taurus Demon. DS was my first and last 3D souls/-like and after playing it again I'm thinking about removing DS2 and DS3 from my backlog, because of how stressful they are. I was literally shaking for 10 minutes after beating Taurus (with full HP after 8 attempts =) ). I blame my anxiety disorder; playing video games as a teen was much easier. Curiously, 2D souls-likes are fine (LOVE Grime)
Totally understand! Some games are just too stressful to be worth the slog. I'm quite the anxious fellow myself, so I can only handle so much. I'm not familiar with Grime, but I'll have to check it out! Salt & Sanctuary was a 2D souls-like that I really enjoyed, if you haven't tried that one!
I really don't think she gave herself enough credit! Dark Souls is a pretty transformative experiment, I'm curious how she'd do if she ever went back to it. Thanks for watching the video, hope you dug it!
Every time I see a new player struggling with dark souls, I'm all the more baffled and puzzled as to how _my_ first playthrough was so smooth. I just knew what to do despite actively avoiding anything about the game online prior to beating it. Maybe it all depends on how much you "trust" the game on a deep psychological level to deliver you a good time. I'm a latecomer so I was never exposed to the whole "dark souls hardest game hard game super duper difficult hurr durr" nonsense, but instead I was drawn to the philosophical and introspective elements that the experience presumably had. It's such a different perspective to go into a game with, I imagine.
I can relate to this! In fairness, I was streaming the game during my first play through so I had some assistance, but I did feel an inherent understanding of a lot of the game's components. I feel as though I'm in a minority, but I actually don't think these games are as hard as people perceive them to be. Maybe it's just in my wheelhouse, but I tend to proceed through these with less pushback than others seem to have. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it's interesting to hear other perspectives!
I am not a novice gamer, but, watching this, I got to appreciate that i was first introdused to DS by watching a commented walkthrough that went up until Taurus demon. This prevented a lot of frustration and showed how I actually should approach the game.
I think a resource like that is extremely helpful in a game like this. I imagine Ellie would have had a much easier time had she watched something like that first!
This was honestly a really cool idea. I now understand the tutorials of certain games so much better. The "What's her name again" got me. It got me good. Great work on this one!
I have *so many* thoughts on DS1. I need to make my own video essay. First off, Ellie did *incredibly* well for a first-timer with no tips / hints / help! I hope she tries it again! Second, I think the ‘infamous difficulty’ of Dark Souls actually works *against* the incredibly clever and thoughtful game design - there’s so many ways that players can easily get caught doing things that the game is actively communicating that they probably shouldn’t do, but, first timers assume that it’s just *supposed* to be that hard instead of realizing they don’t need to bash their head against the skeleton graveyard. Then there’s lock-on. It’s such an interesting little skill bell curve imo. Most people just starting out will not lock on and have a really tough time with the combat. Then after a while if they persist they usually become pretty reliant on lock-on. If you play even more than that you usually reach a point with your familiarity with weapons and enemies where you don’t need to lock on and it actually becomes easier in a lot of ways if you don’t, but only if you already have that foundational knowledge. The comment about spamming attacks at already dead enemies is fun too. Everything up to O&S is so seared into the creases of my brain and I'm so intimately familiar with weapons that I can basically script enemies into attacking exactly how I want and I know exactly how many hits with what weapon will kill them. Demon's Souls (Ps3) came with a very detailed and useful game manual. I do think DS1 would have greatly benefited from a manual like that. It’s an entirely different topic but game manuals have become criminally undervalued, I see a lot of people playing Morrowind for example 'blind' without any guides and having a *very* difficult time and blaming it on the game without understanding that the game would have come with an instruction booklet which explained the things that most modern game tutorials do but older games couldn’t do in-game for various reasons ranging from space limitations to achieving a specific atmosphere. I could keep rambling on but I’ll wrap this up. Cool vid!
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, Nickolie! I couldn't agree more regarding the difficult perception of the game, you articulated that very well. People go into this game expecting to beat their head against the wall, that it almost feels wrong if they're not. I'm really curious to see how she would have done if she'd used the lock on. I don't expect it would have completely transformed the proceedings, but I think it would have made things easier for her overall. 100%, I miss gaming manuals so much. There's nothing like digging into one of those. Nintendo always used to make fantastic, full color manuals. A relic of a bygone era, sadly. Thanks again for the comment and checking out the video, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
The part of the Souls games that I personally struggle with is the 'teeter-totter' of dying, losing souls, not being able to level, dying, losing souls... etc. People who are on the other side of it to where they're strong so they keep more souls and increase their levels constantly think the game is a breeze! But I find being on the down-side of it to be REALLY frustrating. And those other people almost can't see it, from both directions.
Absolutely, that's very well said. For a lot of people, overcoming anything in Dark Souls feels more like relief than reward, I think. Sometimes, the frustrating whiplash of the gameplay just doesn't click, which I totally understand.
Never played a souls like, despite all the good things I've heard. Precisely because of what Ellie went through. Games like Tsushima or GOW Ragnarök are more up my ally personally. P.S. Great video btw, keep em coming Wilson.
Thank you so much, Georgi! Glad you dug it :) I totally get it, these games are very much an acquired taste and I don't blame anyone for not being into them. Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order is a good entry point if you're ever interested in dabbling!
@Wilson-108 Finished it when it came out, was about at the maximum amount of frustration I was willing to take, especially from that bullfrog on the first levels. However I was quite younger then, and I do have a lot more patience now. Am thinking elden ring or Bloodborne what would you suggest?
I actually haven't played Elden Ring yet (see my "backlog" video for more on that, haha), but Bloodborne is fantastic! Definitely worth a shot if you're up for it.
First time I played I spent a fair amount of time down in the cemetery and in new londo ruins before figuring out the correct path. It was thoroughly frustrating :D
"What's her name again?" 😆 Interesting little experiment, Wilson! I've looked into a couple of UA-camr's "I forced my GF to play DS" playlists, but they run out of steam pretty quickly - this format seems a far better fit for that. What surprised me was learning at the end that Ellie *did* have some gaming experience, because her struggles with DS - which revels in being cryptic AF - seemed very relatable to me for someone who just doesn't have this... gamer mind, so to speak. I've watched my own GF try her hand at DS years and years ago, and she fared similarly to Ellie because, I don't know... her synapses aren't connected the way gamers' synapses usually are? 😉 (But she wasn't a gamer at all, except for mobile games.) Well, FromSoft's games are in a league of their own as far as their willingness to explain more than absolutely necessary is concerned. I've been on board since Demon's Souls, and I still don't think I could concisely explain all intricacies of the menu and the synergies of the stats. Anyhow, let me ask us all to observe one moment of silence for poor Ellie's trials and tribulations. Hope this experiment didn't cost you your relationship! 😁
Thanks so much, Zorro!! I wasn't sure if this idea had been done to death already, hopefully I put my own little spin on it. I think a game opting to be cryptic really limits its appeal to a more casual audience, even more so than a game being hard, but simple. I think you really do start to develop a certain "gaming literacy" after playing so many games, but it takes a long time to hone. I couldn't either! I was having to Google stuff myself even as she was playing. I'll let her know you said that, I know she'll appreciate it haha. She dug the final video so I think I'm in the clear (hopefully)!
Not saying FromSoftware should've done a "finer" job teaching the player how Dark Souls works, but man... so many people would have a much better time, and come out with a much higher opinion of the game, if it was clearer in explaining its systems, and the mentality required to succeed in it. In a way, it has a very "two-way street" design philosophy, where the game isn't *that* mechanically or cognitively challenging, but players are only really "thrown a bone" if they invest into the experience, as opposed to being spoon-fed the path to progress and triumph - see the inherit cost behind the many things a player can do to make their playthrough marginally easier, compared to a simple difficulty selection screen; the first is earned, the latter is given. This philosophy, above all else, is what I believe to be the reason Dark Souls is considered such a difficult game. The "classical logical fallacy" you mention is, quite frankly, the norm in a lot of titles, and when people approach their failures in Dark Souls with this mentality, instead of taking a step back and rethinking the situation, they're bound to conclude the game is simply too hard for them, and that all fans of the franchise are masochists. Of course, the community doesn't help, hyping the franchise's difficulty to ridiculous levels, often with some users proudly stating they've died hundreds of times to a boss, as if this was some higher accomplishment, instead of a sign they were either massively underleveled, or actively bruteforcing their way through the game. As for her feeling stupid, that made me sad... if there is one thing I wish the game was more explicit about, most likely going against artistic integrity, is that one should not see death as failure, but as a gift - an opportunity to learn, or at the very least, an opportunity to smile.
Feel like this was my first experience with Dark Souls lol. I just straight up didn't like how combat felt tho so it was more offputting then just frustrating otherwise i would have tried to power thru more of it
Totally understandable! The combat takes a long time to get used to. Even just capturing this footage felt super unnatural to me, after having not played the game in so long.
Please tell me you told her about the mechanics she missed and what would have helped made it easier after she was done. I am curious how much further she would get knowing atleast about locking on and leveling up more. The most frustrating experience I had with DS1 that made me quit three times was 1. getting cursed in the Great Hollow/Ash Lake and not knowing how to cure it and having to go all the back up blight town while cursed. And then 2. having the fire keeper die and not knowing hot to revive her and losing motivation to keep going. and 3. Not having a weapon good/upgraded enough for Orenstein and Smough and not wanting to go back through Anor Londo and Sens fortress just to get something better. I think I finally got through the whole game on my third or fourth try of playing it. I definitely prefer the newer Fromsoft games and feel they are much more intuitive than DS1 but I do like/respect DS1
We actually only discussed it after I showed her the video! I'm actually really curious to see how she would now that she's learned so much about the game. Those sound like super frustrating scenarios. I wonder how Ellie would fair with Blighttown, haha. Yeah, you can tell From has learned a lot as they've continued to hone their style. I think I'll have Ellie attempt another From game for the next video, if you have any suggestions... Really appreciate you watching!
Thanks for watching, everyone!! Hope you dug the video :) Are you interested in more videos like this? If so, what games would you like to see played? As always, if you enjoyed, a "like" helps the video spread to more people!
1 my favorite series is Disgaea. Disgaea 2 PC Onword Game lets you brake it in half many ways like LV 99 Trick(Google that in post game if you want to experience blind playthrough and do not want to break game yet.). My favorites are Disgaea 2 and 5.
the way you narrate it rubs me the wrong way. I dont know what it is yet. Maybe its because I just finished the game for the first time myself, after coming from games like animal crossing and stardew valley, and I always felt those game are not “for me” and i know a lot of other girls who think the same.
This Ellie girl seems super relatable
Hmm yes seems like the girl next door...
Thou shalt git gud
When I heard that Ellie died 75 times, I decided that I need to replay the first DS to see if I could do better. I beat it once without any trouble on KEYBOARD and MOUSE 12 years ago, but now I'm struggling with some fights in Arkham Knight on normal difficulty
I'd love to hear how you do! I'm very impressed that you could complete the game on keyboard and mouse, I imagine I would play absolutely terribly using those, lol.
@@Wilson-108 17 deaths to beat Taurus Demon. DS was my first and last 3D souls/-like and after playing it again I'm thinking about removing DS2 and DS3 from my backlog, because of how stressful they are. I was literally shaking for 10 minutes after beating Taurus (with full HP after 8 attempts =) ). I blame my anxiety disorder; playing video games as a teen was much easier.
Curiously, 2D souls-likes are fine (LOVE Grime)
Totally understand! Some games are just too stressful to be worth the slog. I'm quite the anxious fellow myself, so I can only handle so much. I'm not familiar with Grime, but I'll have to check it out! Salt & Sanctuary was a 2D souls-like that I really enjoyed, if you haven't tried that one!
Thumbs up for Ellie for putting herself through this kind of experiment.
Oh yeah, big props to Ellie!! Hope you enjoyed :)
Don't feel too bad Ellie - it took me about 10 hours to beat the Taurus demon the first time. Those 10 hours changed how I play video games.
I really don't think she gave herself enough credit! Dark Souls is a pretty transformative experiment, I'm curious how she'd do if she ever went back to it.
Thanks for watching the video, hope you dug it!
Every time I see a new player struggling with dark souls, I'm all the more baffled and puzzled as to how _my_ first playthrough was so smooth. I just knew what to do despite actively avoiding anything about the game online prior to beating it. Maybe it all depends on how much you "trust" the game on a deep psychological level to deliver you a good time.
I'm a latecomer so I was never exposed to the whole "dark souls hardest game hard game super duper difficult hurr durr" nonsense, but instead I was drawn to the philosophical and introspective elements that the experience presumably had. It's such a different perspective to go into a game with, I imagine.
I can relate to this! In fairness, I was streaming the game during my first play through so I had some assistance, but I did feel an inherent understanding of a lot of the game's components.
I feel as though I'm in a minority, but I actually don't think these games are as hard as people perceive them to be. Maybe it's just in my wheelhouse, but I tend to proceed through these with less pushback than others seem to have.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it's interesting to hear other perspectives!
I am not a novice gamer, but, watching this, I got to appreciate that i was first introdused to DS by watching a commented walkthrough that went up until Taurus demon. This prevented a lot of frustration and showed how I actually should approach the game.
I think a resource like that is extremely helpful in a game like this. I imagine Ellie would have had a much easier time had she watched something like that first!
This was honestly a really cool idea. I now understand the tutorials of certain games so much better.
The "What's her name again" got me. It got me good.
Great work on this one!
Haha, thank you so much, Zander! Really appreciate it, as always.
I think I've finally got get name down, now. Hopefully...
it's always interesting to see someone play ds1 for the first time, great video.
Truly fascinating! Thanks for watching, I'm really you enjoyed it :) Let me know if there are any other games you'd like to see her try!
I have *so many* thoughts on DS1. I need to make my own video essay. First off, Ellie did *incredibly* well for a first-timer with no tips / hints / help! I hope she tries it again! Second, I think the ‘infamous difficulty’ of Dark Souls actually works *against* the incredibly clever and thoughtful game design - there’s so many ways that players can easily get caught doing things that the game is actively communicating that they probably shouldn’t do, but, first timers assume that it’s just *supposed* to be that hard instead of realizing they don’t need to bash their head against the skeleton graveyard. Then there’s lock-on. It’s such an interesting little skill bell curve imo. Most people just starting out will not lock on and have a really tough time with the combat. Then after a while if they persist they usually become pretty reliant on lock-on. If you play even more than that you usually reach a point with your familiarity with weapons and enemies where you don’t need to lock on and it actually becomes easier in a lot of ways if you don’t, but only if you already have that foundational knowledge. The comment about spamming attacks at already dead enemies is fun too. Everything up to O&S is so seared into the creases of my brain and I'm so intimately familiar with weapons that I can basically script enemies into attacking exactly how I want and I know exactly how many hits with what weapon will kill them. Demon's Souls (Ps3) came with a very detailed and useful game manual. I do think DS1 would have greatly benefited from a manual like that. It’s an entirely different topic but game manuals have become criminally undervalued, I see a lot of people playing Morrowind for example 'blind' without any guides and having a *very* difficult time and blaming it on the game without understanding that the game would have come with an instruction booklet which explained the things that most modern game tutorials do but older games couldn’t do in-game for various reasons ranging from space limitations to achieving a specific atmosphere. I could keep rambling on but I’ll wrap this up. Cool vid!
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, Nickolie!
I couldn't agree more regarding the difficult perception of the game, you articulated that very well. People go into this game expecting to beat their head against the wall, that it almost feels wrong if they're not.
I'm really curious to see how she would have done if she'd used the lock on. I don't expect it would have completely transformed the proceedings, but I think it would have made things easier for her overall.
100%, I miss gaming manuals so much. There's nothing like digging into one of those. Nintendo always used to make fantastic, full color manuals. A relic of a bygone era, sadly.
Thanks again for the comment and checking out the video, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I've never beaten the game (did beat Elden Ring) and watching her play without lock-on is like watching a toddler take their first steps.
Haha, that's an apt comparison! I have a feeling that Elden Ring may be featured in a future video...
Great video man! Such an interesting experiment! Even making it to the Taurus Demon is an achievement to be fair :)
Thanks dude!! Totally, I agree. Many never make it past the tutorial!
The part of the Souls games that I personally struggle with is the 'teeter-totter' of dying, losing souls, not being able to level, dying, losing souls... etc. People who are on the other side of it to where they're strong so they keep more souls and increase their levels constantly think the game is a breeze! But I find being on the down-side of it to be REALLY frustrating. And those other people almost can't see it, from both directions.
Absolutely, that's very well said. For a lot of people, overcoming anything in Dark Souls feels more like relief than reward, I think. Sometimes, the frustrating whiplash of the gameplay just doesn't click, which I totally understand.
That was a beautiful experience.
It was quite a ride!
@@Wilson-108 I bet it was. I felt the thrill by seeing her improving and learning how to use the mechanics.
We love Ellie. She's only doing what we all started out doing in these games 😤
Gotta give it up for Ellie *applause*
Never played a souls like, despite all the good things I've heard. Precisely because of what Ellie went through. Games like Tsushima or GOW Ragnarök are more up my ally personally.
P.S. Great video btw, keep em coming Wilson.
Thank you so much, Georgi! Glad you dug it :)
I totally get it, these games are very much an acquired taste and I don't blame anyone for not being into them. Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order is a good entry point if you're ever interested in dabbling!
@Wilson-108 Finished it when it came out, was about at the maximum amount of frustration I was willing to take, especially from that bullfrog on the first levels. However I was quite younger then, and I do have a lot more patience now. Am thinking elden ring or Bloodborne what would you suggest?
I actually haven't played Elden Ring yet (see my "backlog" video for more on that, haha), but Bloodborne is fantastic! Definitely worth a shot if you're up for it.
great video! it would be awesome to record ellie's commentary if she were ever to return!
Thank you so much, Cat! I was thinking about that, could be a very cool addition for a future video...
First time I played I spent a fair amount of time down in the cemetery and in new londo ruins before figuring out the correct path. It was thoroughly frustrating :D
Haha, I can relate! A very similar trajectory for me. Did you end up playing through the whole game?
"What's her name again?" 😆
Interesting little experiment, Wilson! I've looked into a couple of UA-camr's "I forced my GF to play DS" playlists, but they run out of steam pretty quickly - this format seems a far better fit for that. What surprised me was learning at the end that Ellie *did* have some gaming experience, because her struggles with DS - which revels in being cryptic AF - seemed very relatable to me for someone who just doesn't have this... gamer mind, so to speak. I've watched my own GF try her hand at DS years and years ago, and she fared similarly to Ellie because, I don't know... her synapses aren't connected the way gamers' synapses usually are? 😉 (But she wasn't a gamer at all, except for mobile games.)
Well, FromSoft's games are in a league of their own as far as their willingness to explain more than absolutely necessary is concerned. I've been on board since Demon's Souls, and I still don't think I could concisely explain all intricacies of the menu and the synergies of the stats.
Anyhow, let me ask us all to observe one moment of silence for poor Ellie's trials and tribulations. Hope this experiment didn't cost you your relationship! 😁
Thanks so much, Zorro!!
I wasn't sure if this idea had been done to death already, hopefully I put my own little spin on it. I think a game opting to be cryptic really limits its appeal to a more casual audience, even more so than a game being hard, but simple. I think you really do start to develop a certain "gaming literacy" after playing so many games, but it takes a long time to hone.
I couldn't either! I was having to Google stuff myself even as she was playing.
I'll let her know you said that, I know she'll appreciate it haha. She dug the final video so I think I'm in the clear (hopefully)!
Not saying FromSoftware should've done a "finer" job teaching the player how Dark Souls works, but man... so many people would have a much better time, and come out with a much higher opinion of the game, if it was clearer in explaining its systems, and the mentality required to succeed in it.
In a way, it has a very "two-way street" design philosophy, where the game isn't *that* mechanically or cognitively challenging, but players are only really "thrown a bone" if they invest into the experience, as opposed to being spoon-fed the path to progress and triumph - see the inherit cost behind the many things a player can do to make their playthrough marginally easier, compared to a simple difficulty selection screen; the first is earned, the latter is given.
This philosophy, above all else, is what I believe to be the reason Dark Souls is considered such a difficult game. The "classical logical fallacy" you mention is, quite frankly, the norm in a lot of titles, and when people approach their failures in Dark Souls with this mentality, instead of taking a step back and rethinking the situation, they're bound to conclude the game is simply too hard for them, and that all fans of the franchise are masochists.
Of course, the community doesn't help, hyping the franchise's difficulty to ridiculous levels, often with some users proudly stating they've died hundreds of times to a boss, as if this was some higher accomplishment, instead of a sign they were either massively underleveled, or actively bruteforcing their way through the game.
As for her feeling stupid, that made me sad... if there is one thing I wish the game was more explicit about, most likely going against artistic integrity, is that one should not see death as failure, but as a gift - an opportunity to learn, or at the very least, an opportunity to smile.
Feel like this was my first experience with Dark Souls lol. I just straight up didn't like how combat felt tho so it was more offputting then just frustrating otherwise i would have tried to power thru more of it
Totally understandable! The combat takes a long time to get used to. Even just capturing this footage felt super unnatural to me, after having not played the game in so long.
Please tell me you told her about the mechanics she missed and what would have helped made it easier after she was done. I am curious how much further she would get knowing atleast about locking on and leveling up more.
The most frustrating experience I had with DS1 that made me quit three times was 1. getting cursed in the Great Hollow/Ash Lake and not knowing how to cure it and having to go all the back up blight town while cursed. And then 2. having the fire keeper die and not knowing hot to revive her and losing motivation to keep going. and 3. Not having a weapon good/upgraded enough for Orenstein and Smough and not wanting to go back through Anor Londo and Sens fortress just to get something better. I think I finally got through the whole game on my third or fourth try of playing it. I definitely prefer the newer Fromsoft games and feel they are much more intuitive than DS1 but I do like/respect DS1
We actually only discussed it after I showed her the video! I'm actually really curious to see how she would now that she's learned so much about the game.
Those sound like super frustrating scenarios. I wonder how Ellie would fair with Blighttown, haha. Yeah, you can tell From has learned a lot as they've continued to hone their style. I think I'll have Ellie attempt another From game for the next video, if you have any suggestions...
Really appreciate you watching!
Thanks for watching, everyone!! Hope you dug the video :)
Are you interested in more videos like this? If so, what games would you like to see played?
As always, if you enjoyed, a "like" helps the video spread to more people!
1 my favorite series is Disgaea. Disgaea 2 PC Onword Game lets you brake it in half many ways like LV 99 Trick(Google that in post game if you want to experience blind playthrough and do not want to break game yet.). My favorites are Disgaea 2 and 5.
Good watch!
Thank you very much!
the way you narrate it rubs me the wrong way. I dont know what it is yet. Maybe its because I just finished the game for the first time myself, after coming from games like animal crossing and stardew valley, and I always felt those game are not “for me” and i know a lot of other girls who think the same.
I appreciate the feedback! Do you mean that my voice is rubbing you the wrong way, or the way that I wrote the script?