What is the C Melody Saxophone? 🎷
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- Опубліковано 9 кві 2019
- Through a stroke of random luck I got my hands on a rare C Melody Saxophone (in between an alto sax and a tenor sax). In this video I take you down the rabbit hole of saxophone history to see how this thing ended up getting made in the first place!
Link to David Bruce Composer's video:
• Why is there no Saxoph...
The history of the saxophone is EXTREMELY complex and this is meant to be a suuuuuper reductive version of it. So I apologize (to any music historians watching this) if I've oversimplified some bits of the history.
Here is where I got most of my info:
www.cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/
www.saxpics.com/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_melod...
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#CMelodySaxophone #Saxophone #AdolpheSax
My dad had one when i was young and he would play along with my mom on the piano and follow the piano music because the were both in the key of C
That sounds like it was magical!
The thought makes me miss the days when my mom, on the French horn, would accompany my dad while he played the guitar.
That is one of the most advantages of this size instrument besides weight and smaller/faster mechanism: No more confusion,
when the pianist during the gig shouts " Next song in G# " - if he knows Your horn is in C he remembers that easier then if the Bb or Eb ( strangly enough).
Yep. Play mine in church. Beats having to transpose!
May your dad RIP
You should definitely do more of theses! :D I enjoyed this!
Glad to hear you enjoyed it I'll definitely make sure to add a few more :)
InstrumentManiac It’s a C Tenor Sax which is very a concert pitch sax.
The demise of the C melody is also due to the rise of public music. Before then, people bought sheet music and played at home. Many homes also had pianos so it became a family band. Being a C melody, the sax player could read off of the same sheet music. Once records and radio arrived, people could listen to music by turning a knob. The other saxophones were used by more professional players or marching bands and music was written specifically for them.
It is said by some that instead of the C melody being a bit of the best from the Tenor and Alto, it instead was the worst of both.
True! It's hard to tease out just one thing that lead to its demise since there were so many things leading up to it. I still would have preferred the C melody/soprano & F baritone/alto family over the Bb/Eb that ended up being standard but maybe in an alternate history 😆
Well, your close, yes the C-Mel is meant to play in a Parlor with a piano, violin and un-amplified singer, so it was a quiet instrument by design, nothing like todays horns........as the Big Band / Marching band took off, they split the horn in to the Alto Eb and Tenor Bb in order fit in better with the brass section. The C-Mel didn't "go bad"........it's just that people were more interested in buying a horn that fit the days fad of Big Band.
I am working since the 80s restoring dozends of these rare instruments, which were very popular in the US as school and military/marching band horns.
They are NOT truely conical and therefor their intonation is quite different to the modern ones. But there is absolutly no prob to get used to it.
They come with two neck forms: One like alto sax , straightly with one curve and the other more swung like a tenor neck.
Since the C-Melody is closer to the Bb tenor , I used to dig the straight alto neck style for them as often found with the Bueschers.
The top brands are Conn, Buescher, King, and I happen to lay my hands on a brittish made Boosey Cie, bought as a wreck in Bombay,
whose neck is sort of an in between alto and tenor curve.
Most of them are about 100 years old and therefore the brass consits of lots of cupper with often a thick silverplating on top,
grip screws for the pivots ( Conn ) and often a neck intonation screw, alowing the mouthpiece to be moved in or out in the desired angle.
Super horns they are, about 1 kg lighter and much smaller than the Bb tenor but only a second apart with a distinct sound colour of their own !
Amano Wudd
Germany
Ah wow what a great run down of info, thanks Amano!
@@InstrumentManiac ,greetings from Russia! I want to ask you 'bout my English, but I will try to make you understand) there is a band in Russia , called ДДТ, and the has track named Российское танго. What kind of instrument do you hear during solo? Thank you.
Hey @rogerwudd6723,
I’m from Germany too and I just found an old C saxophone at school. It’s from XX Century Hawkes & Sons. Is that a special one?
Hope you’ll read this in the near future:)
It sounds incredible and is absolutely gorgeous. That engraving is something else. Such a unique instrument. You got lucky with that Craigslist post! I'm glad it found its way to you.
InstrumentManiac Glad you got your C Tenor Sax & it sounds smooth. The C & F members of the Sax family are coming back because they produce a sound so special that we all love it.
Thanks bud! Yess I hope they do make a comeback, they really do have a super unique sound
@@InstrumentManiac Luckily they will because Yamaha is working on them now. The C & F members of the Sax family have a special sound one that could add alot more variety to your Band.
I have enjoyed it! It is incredible what quality an old (better historical) things have. The C Melody Saxophone has really "deeper" tune maybe like the time it is from. We live in abundance and I sometimes miss a spirit into this modern plenty, but I don´t miss wars or depressions! Of course. Thanks for insteresting information :)
Haha I don't miss those pesky wars or depressions either! Yes it's quite the unique but (similar to tenor) timbre, happy you found it interesting!
Excellent and fascinating. I first heard this instrument on a Frankie Trumbauer recording and loved it! Thanks a lot for the background!!
About time I heard positive feedback about the C- Melody.
My brother just obtained a Buescher from the 20s and I am SMITTEN.
Also have an alto and another C, but THIS one is The Bomb.
It FITS!
Such a warm smooth sound ‼️🫨🫨🫨
i have a 1914 conn c saxophone and will start learning soon, i am a french horn player
Very cool Ethan good luck learning!
how did you know my name
Ethan Schaum 1914 is actually the Patent date if you look up the serial # chart for your brand sax you can find the actual manufacture date of your C melody. They discontinued putting patent dates on most saxophones around 1929 so yours would have been made some time in the 20s 👍
Ron Hendon thanks
Congrats on this rare find! It sounds great.
Thanks Joe!!
The C Melody Sax sounds darker than the Eb Alto and F Alto (English Horn is aka F Alto Oboe) which makes it sound like the Tenor Sax. This is why it's called the C Tenor Sax cause it has a Tenor Voice, that's intended to fill in that gap between the Eb Alto and the Bb Tenor. So you have 3 Saxophones in total that are proportioned the Eb Alto, the C Tenor, and the Bb Tenor. Bringing the C and F Members of the Sax family back (which is finally happening) will fill in a load of gaps. The sax d'amore is aka the A Mezzo Sax. The English Horn isn't a horn, it's actually an Alto Oboe because it's an Alto Voice.
I have a 1920's Martin C Melody, which is close to the Conn in design since I think Martin worked for Conn before he started his sax manufacturing.
The C Melody Sax aka C Tenor Sax rocks. It's a beautiful non transposing sax that's in tune. The C Tenor fills the gaps up between the Bb Tenor and Eb Alto which really adds some more tone colors.
The C Melody sax is already a Tenor Sax in the Key of C & it's range is an octave below an oboe so this is perfect for covering oboe pieces.
I use a Vandoren T8 tenor mouthpiece on my Conn C-Melody and have way more power and brightness than I'm hearing here. The intonation is also spot on but I have to shove the mouthpiece all the way to touching metal to have it work. I have tried it with my alto mouthpieces and I don't like them at all.
That sounds like a great idea, thanks for sharing your setup! The only tenor mouthpiece I have is an old Yamaha 4C so I went with my higher grade Alto. I'll have to invest in a tenor one 😄
The original mouthpieces were all open inside, without any corners and much shorter compared with the original Bb Tenor mouthpieces.
And furthermore all saxes can be played with mouthpieces bigger then their originals, but NOT with the smaller ones. I.e. you can use a Bb Tenor mouthp.
on the C - Melody , but not the Alto !
Good stuff, man. After watching your video I bought myself a minty 1921 Conn C-Melody with a matte silver-plated finish. I thought it'd be perfect for playing 19teen parlor music with my guitar-, piano- and mando-playing friends. Great video, thanks.
Nice find!
Nice tattoo on your right arm!
Thanks for the lecture on saxophones 🎷
The sound of music, how charming!
You’re the best!
Thanks Sativum! You're too kind!😁
InstrumentManiac The C melody aka C tenor sounds tenor sax like. That was my favorite things aka 7 rings.
5:39 My Favorite Things/7 Rings comparing the sounds of the 2 Saxophones. They have C Tenor Saxes (as well as all members of the Sax family in all keys) that go down to written Low F in production.
I had thought about buying a C Melody sax many years ago. I never did due to so many people (online forums, websites, local instrument tech) complaining about the overall quality and intonation issues. I should have bought one, had it restored and enjoyed playing it. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and pick one up.
Lots of good info and a nice side by side comparison in this video. As far as talking out your butt, I heard when you do, your breath stinks ;-).
Thanks for this comment! YES x10!! Luckily the sax I bought was in great shape but in a similar vein... I bought a metal clarinet that needed a little bit of fixing and I had to ARGUE with the repair shop to work on it. Even if you do have to dump a little money in it I think just the novelty of owning something historical (and frankly super practical) outweighs the monetary drain.
Thanks for the kind words I'm glad you found the info in the video useful! 😃
5:39 My Favorite Things aka 7 Rings played on the C Tenor & Eb Alto
A major selling point for the C melody saxophone was the fact that in contrast to other saxophones, it was not a transposing instrument. As a result, the player could read regular sheet music (e.g. for instruments that are pitched in the key of C such as the flute, oboe, violin, piano or guitar) without having to transpose or read music parts that have been transposed into B♭ or E♭, which most other saxophones would require. This enabled amateur musicians to play along with a friend or family member by reading from the same sheet music-so long as the music fell within the pitch range of the C melody saxophone itself, that is, was not too high or low.
Another selling point was that the C melody saxophone produces a more muted tone than the E♭ alto or B♭ tenor, which was useful when playing at home. Many novelty tunes, most influenced by 1920s dance music, were written specifically for the instrument. They were sometimes also used in churches to accompany hymns. Saxophone players in Irish and Irish-American dance bands of the 1920s and '30s often used the C melody as it made for easier fingering in the keys of G and D commonly used for traditional Irish tunes played by fiddlers, flute players and button accordionists. Similarly, some saxophone players prefer the C melody when playing guitar-based blues music in E or A.
You have one of the most beautiful speaking voices on UA-cam.
Love the topic ! Thank you !
Glad you enjoyed it!
There is a reason C melody is not used much outside the symphonic music. Namely, Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone saxophones all correspond to human voices, baritone to soprano, and similarly, fit their pitches. Average male voice (tenor) articulates frequencies from ~60 - ~180 Hz, and at 58 Hz is the Bb1 frequency. The tenor saxophone is pitched in Bb for that reason. Lower range female voice frequencies (alto) stretch from ~160Hz - ~300 Hz, and at 156Hz is the frequency of Eb3. Eb is the pitch of the alto saxophone. Therefore a saxophone quartet simulates the choir of four different human voices. If used in jazz or blues, which are based on vocal music and/or input from the vocalists, the C melody saxophone must be transposed because human voices are not naturally pitched in C, but must be artificially raised (through training) to fit the symphonic needs. Therefore operas and symphonic music do not sound "natural" to our ears, but highly trained and elevated. Quite the opposite from more natural-sounding (low key) blues or jazz. Jazz piano players, though, have a huge range of octaves at hands and can play (transpose) in any key that fits the vocals or the saxophone.
interesting take!
You're talking a lot of rubbish here. First, you make the assumption that C saxophones are used in symphonic music, that is absurd and comes from the idea that Adolphe Sax designed a family of C and F saxophones for use in orchestras which is a myth perpetuated by orchestration books. Bizet's L'Arlésienne, Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances, Ravel's Paintings at an Exhibition and Bolero, Glazunov's Saxophone Concerto, just to name the most famous pieces, where all written for B-flat and E-flat saxophones and classical saxophonists use these instruments to play them, never instruments in C. The irony is that where the C Melody Saxophone was most used, in addition to its home and amateur use, was in Vaudeville, Ragtime, early Jazz and other types of entertainment typical of the 10s and 20s.
But what strikes me most is that you are trying to argue that "symphonic music" is "unnatural" because "orchestras are tuned in C". This is the most absurd thing I've read in a long time. Not only do you skip about all the other tunings like D, G and A (are those tunings are also "unnatural"?), not only do you skip about how the orchestra does use instruments that are tuned in B flat and E flat on a regular basis, like the soprano clarinet (B flat), the sopranino clarinet (E flat), the bass clarinet (B flat), one of the sets of tubing of the horns (B flat), the tenor trombone (B flat), the alto trombone (E flat), and the tuba (there are both versions in E flat and B flat as well as in Fa and C), but also the fact that "C" is not an absolute concept because it depends on the tuning that the orchestra uses, tuning that through the centuries and regions has fluctuated between less than 400Hz and more than 460Hz and was only standardized at 440Hz (a tuning that Jazz and Blues also accepted) in the middle of the last century. Since how the notes sound depends on the tuning the ensemble uses, your correlation of human vocal ranges with specific notes is absurd and makes no sense.
Stop spreading rubbish that is not based on any real fact.
I’m writing the truth. I’m a classical musician and a music historian who talked DIRECTLY to saxophone manufacturers about the C melody, and I got answers from them as well. You on the hand, are a pretentious and lazy kiddo who was listening way too much heavy metal.
This was awesome thanks
I'm having fun going through your older videos. Boy would we have fun talking instruments. I would love to show you my collection of antique Boehm flutes and piccolos!
Someday... when this COVID mess is all over, maybe we could meet in Red Wing or something.
A C melody would be cool for a rock band with guitars and piano players. They favor keys like E, G, D, A, C. We gotta see more of them!
I have a 1921 Beuscher C Melody without a single scratch or ding anywhere. Amazing after 100 years! It has the tenor style neck and even the original wooden mouthpiece. Beuscher was an employee at Conn and he first saw the sax at the Paris World's Fair, then convinced his boss at Conn to start manufacturing them. Beuscher eventually left Conn and started his own instrument company (in the same town, Elkhart, Indiana) and manufactured the Beuscher True Tone line of saxes. Beuscher had a contract with Selmer... to manufacture Selmers in their factory...so the True Tone is basically a Selmer. Later....Bundy bought out Selmer and the Beuscher factory manufactured all those student saxes across America that we all learned on. I still have my Selmer/Bundy alto that I learned on in the 70's. BTW - Another Conn employee who eventually left and started his own instrument company was Martin. He also built his factory in the same town as Conn and Beuscher...which is why most horns in America say Elkhart, Indiana.
5:39 My Favorite Things/7 Rings comparing the Eb Alto to the C Tenor
I just got a bass saxophone today :D
Ah that's awesome congrats! 😊
@@InstrumentManiac you should get a bari 😊
I’ve been researching relentlessly on what instrument to play that was not that popular. I believe I’ve found the right instrument along with the bawu
Mine is the brazilian C melody by Weril, with the tenor tudel
Very good
5:15 2.5 Octave Bb Major Scale on C Tenor Sax
awesome video.
I had no idea...we had one restored 30 years ago. It didn't fit in with our band, so I just kept it. I still have it. 😮
Yes there are 14 saxophones such as soprillo, soprano, alto, c melody, tenor, bari, bass, tubax, contrabass, and subcontrabass including other really cool counter parts
That's a beautiful HORN! Don't ever let that one go, you'll never find another one....
class in session
'Melody' seems a slightly derogatory designation: We should instead call this instrument a C Tenor: It is only a semi tone down from a Bb Sharp Tenor horn, another which died out. I have a Conn New Wonder II in Sharp pitch. It is a fabulous beast, and I cannot wait to add a C Tenor alongside it and my Bb Flat Tenori
They are not so rare, even though they haven't been made since the '30's, other than a modern one now produced in Australia. The key is finding an instrument tech who knows what they are doing in order to repair or refurbish them. I use a Brilhart #3 tenor mp on my Conn Castle from 1923 that I bought in a Sam Ash store near Philly. It has a short shank so it doesn't play flat. The guy in the store knew what he was doing when he "threw that in" the case for me. I have to wrap a little bit of electrical tape around the neck cork because it's too narrow for the Bb mp. This mp takes away all the nasal quality associated with C's and gives it a nice, beefy tenor-like tone.
There’s also a C melody soprano sax. I have one. It’s awesome .
Awesome! Those are super rare!
InstrumentManiac , I’ve heard just 2,000 of the kind I have.. but recently discovered there’s at least 1 other brand.
@@InstrumentManiac Coming back to life cause it's adorable. It sounds so much like an oboe, this would make a good substitute for an oboe in case you don't have enough oboes.
I have a C Melody sax. It is silver and over atleast 118 years old
My father found it a while back in the attic of the church and they let him keep it. It was so rusty. When I decided to play saxophone in band he gave it to me. We got it cleaned and found that it was silver. I wasn’t allowed to use it because it was too deep compared to the altos, but I still have it and want to learn to use it
You should learn! Most tenor mouthpieces work well with them :)
InstrumentManiac It came with a mouth piece of its own in the case. And I will learn it when I have time, I’m mostly busy with my bird and art these days
I have a new 3yo Chinese contralto or C melody just a joy
You should really get a specialized C melody mouthpiece if you want to get the characteristic sound of the c melody
Great suggestion, thanks Benjamin! Maybe I'll do that for a follow up video 😃
Morgan built me a C Melody mouthpiece for my Martin and it was an immediate hit. They can do a variety of tip openings to fit anyone's taste.
Hello, I just bought a 98 year old but playable C Melody Tenor to learn during the Covid-19 quarantine. I have never played a reed instrument before (bass, guitar, and drums in rock/punk bands with a bit of trumpet as well). I've no idea how to even set-up a reed. Wish me luck!
Best of luck! Luckily C melody is pretty much just a tenor sax so just look for those kinds of tutorials on here :)
If Your horn is 98 years old - better believe me, it needs some attention befor reaching max playability ! Else after a while You will dispair over its difficulties - and drop it.
1:04 more than 4! Soprillo, Soprinino, Saxello, Conn-o- Sax, Mezzo Soprano, C Soprano, Soprano, Alto, Tenor, C Melody, Baritone, Bass, Contrabass, SubContrabass, Adelieo Sax, Tubax. Way more than! even Slide Saxophones, Overtone Saxes w/ no keys!
You are right - many more even than what you listed! I address that later in the video. However in today's music I would say that there are only 4 commonly used. And between those alto and tenor are really the main ones
@@InstrumentManiac Thr other members of the sax family are being played more. The bottom 2 are the SubBass, and the Contrabass cause of the voice.
my dads C melody sax is over 100 yrs. old! he told me when i waz a kid
That's awesome to hear!
Hi Instrument maniac. I bought an old C melody saxophone for my 7 year old daughter not knowing it was one of this kind. I haven’t been able to find a method and I was wondering if you can please tell me how do you produce C note. Do you push all the keys? Some of them? Sorry for my ignorance but I think if you give that information I can figure out how the do D and so on. Thank you. Best
Hi there congrats on your purchase! Look for "Tenor Sax" tutorials and they are the exact same thing. Best of luck!
Thank you very much Instrument maniac for answering me. I really appreciate it. Best 🙏🏽
Me gustaría comprar uno de esos.
is there any repetoire for c melody sax?
neat
Hi , i have a c melody saxofon ! And i want to know if you can explain the notes to play it !! Do , re , me .... and the other ones !!! That sax was a chritsmas gift to me 😎👌
Congrats on the Christmas gift! I'd try looking online for tenor saxophone tutorials it's very similar ^_^
Thanks man !! Apriciated !! I like your channel !! 😎👌
A bit late but you make an common error here: Sax never intended a C and F family of instruments for use in orchestras use. While in his original patent he says that the instruments could be made in either key (B-flat-C, E-flat-F) this never matirialize when he started manufacturing instruments, he only make one bass saxophone in C, a few sopranos and tenors in C and even less altos in F (no Baritones or Sopraninos in F have ever existed).
Jean-Georges Kastner, the first man to ever score for saxophones was the inventor of this idea and he talked about this in his Orchestration treatise but only in the first edition, by the second edition this was erased because Sax stopped manufacturing C and F saxophones. The problem is that Berlioz took that idea from Kastner in his own treatise and because of his influence every major orchestration and instrumentation book have perpetuated this myth.
Except for Strauss' Sinfonia Domesitica, all major orchestral works that call for saxophones always use B-flat and E-flat instruments, even the most earlier ones. C saxophones have never been used in orchestras, modern saxophone players always use B-flat and E-flat instruments. C saxophones were manly use in homes, vaudeville, ragtime, early jazz and other types of 10s and 20s entertaintments.
Can I play Altissimo on my old, Conn, C melody Saxophone? I’m not sure if it’s made for Altissimo...Does anyone know?
Technically you should be able to if all the pads are sealing well!
InstrumentManiac Ok great! Thanks! I’m doing my best to learn it on my C melody.
What? No mention of Frankie Trumbauer, the man when it came to C-Melody Saxes? He was arguably the first recorded jazz soloist. His sound it quite different than your playing above. Very nice though!
ua-cam.com/video/c1PwE46_XuY/v-deo.html
Good info thanks!
I find in Alixpress they sall modern C melody
Soprillo sopranino soprano alto tenor baritone bass contrabass sub contrabass
With others like c mezzo soprano c melody venova glissendo sax
I only play tenor
lol it's pretty much the same thing
Where can I find restored c melody saxophones?
Probably Ebay is your best bet!
Hi bro. Nice info and explanation. I have a C saxophone ( i can send a pic if you like) the bran name is Buescher and on the serial number says low pitch. I bought it cause a friend of mine needed money to move to France and i wanted to learn how to play the sax. The thing is that i cannot find any tutorials on internet on the notes of this sax. All of them are based on the regular saxophones. So i wanted to ask ypu if you can make tutorial of the notes and how to play the notes on this sax pls. Thah would be very helpfull and the first video on the web as far as i know. I live in méxico so that might be another reason based on the restrictions of each country on what you can or can´t find in the web. Thanks.
All saxophone fingerings are the same! You could watch an alto sax or tenor sax tutorial and be able to follow it 100%. The only difference is the sound coming out of your C melody will be a few steps higher or lower than what's coming out of an alto or tenor. Best of luck!
@@InstrumentManiac Thank you so much master. This info is more than ehough. Really apreciate it. Best wishes for you.
Yes, I also have an old vintage 1922 Buescher True Tone silver plated C-Melody saxophone model, low pitch tuned; it has a S curved neck as Bb tenor saxes! I play it with an old vintage Conn hard rubber tenor sax mouthpiece!
Really an Amazing instrument!!
I love the Drag Race reference. Are you a fan?
Haha glad someone caught that! I am 😄
You should now get a F saxophone/Mezzo-soprano saxophone
Good video friend!
The best sound in the entire world i have heared is by the C- melody sax from mr. Michael Ausserbauer... simply amazing. Look for his chanel and enjoy...
I'll have to check him out!
The top C- tenor player that I know of was Frankie Trumbauer from the Bix Beiderbecke Jazzband.....
Just one errors, you said c-sopranino but it doesn't exists, it was c-soprano, not c-sopranino
Thanks for the correction!
5:29 2.5 Octave Bb Major Scale on Eb Alto Sax
"Hey what's up guys?" No one can answer you so why not just say hello?
You like jazz?
I do!
0:28 Song name?
ua-cam.com/video/cuMa86utpEo/v-deo.html
@@InstrumentManiac All instruments version please?
If anyone wants a NEW C-Mel, I have a shipment coming later in the year. Let me know. $1200
There are 14 saxophones