Charge 10s of thousands of dollars for a bike and not stand behind your product... dealerships are trash. I do my own work. Thank God for UA-cam and graybeards
I think HD stands behind their product...just with too many "gotchas". It is disappointing how few experienced mechanics are working at dealerships. If you find a good one, count yourself lucky. If you can't, best to do the work yourself to make sure it's done right. Thanks for your comment. 👍
I have a '21 114 Road Glide Special with 9000 miles on it. Rode it relatively easy the first 500 miles, didn't burn a drop of oil. Changed out the oil at 500 miles and put 4500 more miles on it without losing any oil. After 9000 total miles my oil level doesn't move unless I change it. I ride in SoCal pretty aggressively through the windy mountain roads with lots of elevation change and hot temps. The only thing done to the engine is slipon mufflers and an ultracool oil cooler.
I have a ‘17 Street Glide 107-M8 and I’ve only done slip-ons, oil cooler and a tune. At every 2,000 miles I maybe lost 2 ounces tops and the bikes at 10,000 miles now. I’ve noticed people with stage 2 and higher seem to have major issues with oil loss, extreme blow by, etc etc. makes me kinda glad I haven’t upgraded too much yet.
I have a 2013 FLTRU Road Glide with the 103 c.i. motor and man did that sucker puke oil. I mean a lot of oil... from day one!!! I would have to replace the air filter and clean the entire filter assembly each oil change which I would do every 3000 miles and I would still get oil down the side of my bike as it dripped out of the air cleaner. I would buy 5 quarts of oil every time I would change the oil. Three for the oil change and the rest to keep the oil tank topped off. The dealer said, "yeah, that happens. Put a quart less oil in it." But wait! Isn't it an oil cooled motor? What a terrible bit of advice because oil level didn't matter, it would puke oil no matter what the oil level in the tank was until it completely ran out, as I soon discovered while testing various theories. Yes, on a long trip, running a quart less of oil soon had my bike making clattering noises as the pickup starved for oil and the oil gauge would rise in pressure and then drop to zero cyclically. Amsoil prevented permanent damage on that dumb suggestion, and it also meant that I was not over filling it. I had a real problem. I purchased a catch can kit can as a potential solution, but that was a Band-Aid on a severed jugular vein. I would have to empty the catch can every 1000 miles or that would start puking oil down the bike so I looked for other solutions. I did the oil drain test with the oil fill opening capped. The oil barely gurgled out. Opened the filler cap and it gushed out, so the umbrella valves were fine, but I replaced them anyway. No joy. Still puked oil. Then I started thinking about how much oil my poor engine had probably ingested before I put a catch can on. I took off the intake manifold and both runners into the intake port were completely covered in jellied oil. I removed the heads and the pistons were coked with wet, oily thick carbon. You could barely see the valve reliefs cuts in the piston and the combustion chambers had so much oil soaked carbon deposits, it was amazing the compression relief valve was working because you almost couldn't see it in the head anymore. I had watched a video about how cam support plates are made: Cast Aluminum. Which means there are variations in each and every cam plate with regards to the oil galleries. Some are fine but others are not, and Harley doesn't test every one of them to make sure they are working correctly. I didn't know how it was doing it but I theorized that my cam support plate was allowing excess oil to pool in the upper head and that every time I decelerated, pooled oil was getting pushed out of the upper head when the umbrella valves opened and would cause the oil to both gush into the intake and puke down the side of the bike. I ceremoniously chucked the stock cam plate and oil pump with a billet aluminum version from a reputable company that assured me that each oil journal/gallery was tested to make sure it flowed to spec. During replacement, I checked the crank runout and I replaced several other items while I was in there that you should, such as upgraded bearings and chain tensioners, and while I wasn't sure that my expensive theory would work, I still figured it would be a worthy upgrade for the engine anyway. I also scraped the pistons with a brass scraper and cleaned the chambers with a Dremel. The pistons, after cleaning, had pock marks which were sure signs of detonation, likely from the loss of chamber volume and increased compression but they were otherwise still in good shape. After reassembly and buttoning it up I realized my solution worked. No more puking oil! No more overflowing catch can. No more oil down the side of my bike and no more oiled carbon buildup on the combustion chambers. It also seemed like it had more power, I am assuming due to the computer previously retarding timing to deal with detonation problems it had obviously been dealing with. Now when I check the catch can after an oil change, the media I have in it might be damp with oil, but there is no oil to dump out of the container itself. So this time, my theory and solution were spot on. So if you have looked into everything else and you still have a problem with oil puking down the side of your bike, and no other solution has worked, you might have a malfunctioning cam support plate that never worked right from the factory to begin with. I just turned 70,000 miles on the bike this last week and I thought about how much I loved it and how well it was running. I also had zero help from the dealer's service department. I only trust them to provide whatever service parts I request.
Great information. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience. While most HD's do not experience excessive oil consumption, when they do, that magic little disclaimer "1 quart of oil consumption every 1500 miles" takes HD off the hook and leaves the Customer to accept it or to do the work of fixing it themselves. Glad you got it resolved and have enjoyed many miles of smiles on it since doing the work yourself. 👍
The service manager and part owner of my local HD dealer actually read this to me. We both looked at each other and wondered who the hell wrote this. He shows me it came straight from HD.
I work off a Road King. I have to add a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles. Most of the guys I work with have to do the same even though they often don't. It's not unusual for them to pull their oil dipsticks and find no oil touching the stick because they've failed to check it. My current bike was 2 quarts low at my first 5k service when I was issued the bike from another coworker. I don't recommend that. We run them WOT over and over again and get them super hot with cone drills and whatnot. I suspect our oil consumption is for those reasons and not really because of any manufacturing defect. They are tough machines for how used and abused they get. I just make sure to check the oil regularly so that it has full capacity for cooling and lubricating. Fortunately, I don't have to foot the bill for every quart of oil. Maintain your bikes. I've done that with my issued bike and have had way less issues than my coworkers. Most of our issues are electrical related due to the equipment we carry on the bikes so I wouldn't expect civilian variants to have the same. But others have been from pure neglect. My bike pulls super hard and even harder on cool days. I use Syn3 in all three holes and prefer it, Mobil 1 or any comparable oil for all three holes. What you put in your primary and transmission greatly affects how the bike feels when clutching and shifting. I don't like Formula+. We (my coworkers and I) should probably perform fluid changes more often than we do just based on how hot we get the bikes but I suppose that's not as necessary when we consume as much oil as we do. I think we just get the bikes super hot, it thins the oil out which causes it to burn off easier. That's pure conjecture on my part though. Our intakes are a little oily from the breather bolts but nothing crazy. If you're bike is still running good and pulling hard, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Thank you for sharing your rear world experience. 👍 Definitely hard riding and lots of heat during drills and traffic will contribute to consumption. I know your bike is issued, but you mention that it pulls harder on cool days. That is how many of us civilians would like our bikes to run 100% of the time, even on hot days...which is one of the reasons we like to cool them down. You are 100% correct, Harley has done an outstanding job at making them run regardless of the circumstances.
My '02 88ci FLHRCI never used a drop of oil between oil changes, irrespective of ambient temps, running full-synth 20W50 with ambient temps -7 (Celsius) in winter to 46 in summer. I run between 8 and 10k kilometers annually. Bought her in 2020 with 18k and almost 40k on the clock now. Now having 100ci S&S big bore build done. My firm belief is that MoCo is throwing its customers to the wolves, selling bikes with substandard engineering, without necessary ancillary cooling equipment. Love your channel, guys.
Thanks guys! Just picked up my first HD, an 07 Dyna low. Motor wise it’s stock, just slip ons. Got your 606 intake and FP3 coming. Bike had 70,000 on it when I picked it up two weeks ago, now pushing 71. Seems like it’s running good, no noise, smoke, etc. This winter it will be gone through, more worried about the bottom end than the top. Just hoping the crank is still usable without having it worked on. Learned a lot y’all already and I appreciate it.
Improper ring seating when new. And another topic that doesn't get talked about is not having negative crank case pressure. When you go to external oil breathers you take care of a portion of the problem but create another . You now no longer have the vacuum that was created to remove positive crank case psi.
Do you have any proof or testing results of this recent theory that has been circulating regarding HD's? The recently circulating theory of needing vacuum from the intake for better ring seal is just that, a theory. No tests or evidence as been posted showing that to be true. The holes in the tubes in the intake (and subsequent passageways back to the crank case) are so small that the vacuum created in the intake takes the path of least resistance, pulling in thru the filter element. btw, I've seen a couple of videos of folks trying to measure that phantom vacuum thru the venting system. They were both honest in disclosing that they could not get any measurable reading.
@@taps_1021 I've watched his videos...he provides no documentation that what he is talking about is a reality. He does say very clearly that it is just his opinion, and that it could be wrong. He also states that whatever he says is "true" today is good for only 7 days, because he is always learning new things. Additionally, 90% of what he talks about is on radically built engines, not HD engines that are stock, Stage I-IV.
@@DKCustomProducts the breather holes in a twincam are not tiny. At 11mm or .0400 x 2 . Now the oil return is tiny. George Bryce is an N/A engine builder whether it's big hp or stock all engines operate under the same guidelines. From your car to your motorcycle. Positive crank case is not good . Next time measure how much psi comes out of the breathers at idle and 3k rpms .
Which is the same for most Harley's. A very small % use more than an ounce or two every 5000 miles. Metric bikes are in the same boat, most consume little, a few consume a lot. How any MFG. deals with the exceptions is where you may see differences.
I have a 2012 Road King Classic, 103 twin cam. My bike doesn't use ANY oil between oil changes, and I only change oil every 5,000 miles. I run AMSOIL, and my bike has 119,000 miles on it, and the motor has never been touched. The bike still runs very strong, doesn't puff a bit of smoke even with cold starts, and I check the oil level every time I ride. The level never moves.
I had a twin cam 103 high output on a 2014 Ultra and it never lost a drop of oil ever. Almost 30k miles with zero oil consumption. Just traded up to a M8 114 on a 2020 Ultra so we'll see how this one goes.
called dk custom for tech support. to my surprise, I had the pleasure of speaking to dwayne. thank you so much for answering all my concerns. and your recommendations. love you guys videos. keep the video coming and ill. keep watching.
Have always run 1/2 a quart low and never consumed oil or had it purging from breathers making a mess, I just bought an FLHT m8 new and will be installing your external breather system!!
This is saying that it is normal for an OEM Harley to burn that much oil. If your Harley is burning that much oil I would have it checked out. Not sure who is building, what kind of Stage II, III & IV's you're seeing burning that much oil. We've owned several Stage IV's and many more Stage II's, and none of them have burned even 1/4 of a quart in 1500 miles. Thanks for commenting! MB
I have a 2018 FLTRU with 75,000kms on it...bought it new and change all 3 holes every 8,000 kms or less. Mine has never been down more than 1/4 of a liter at the 8,000kms mark. Have a stage 2 with power cam and I ride it hard but don't abuse it. Have always used syn 3 in all holes. Great vid was surprised we see this in the M8's
Good deal, glad you're bike is doing well on low oil consumption...most are the same as yours...what sucks is that some are not and HD calls it normal. Enjoy your Ride! 👍
I have a 2021 Road Glide Special with 6,000 miles. The 114 ci engine is losing a quart every 1,500. I'm working with the dealership. They said drive for 500 miles and come back. I did that today and they did some tests and said they will be contacting HD Monday.
To update, I was down 8 dots on the stick after 1,000 miles, which puts it in the 2,000 mile window. Not good for a new bike, but within spec. No sense putting in premium oil. Thanks guys!!
I am on my second M8 114 bike... both engines consumed oil. I broke both engines in as recommended by HD. My current bike, which is a 2020 Freewheeler, consumes roughly 3.55 ounces (1 dot on dipstick) every 500 miles, which equates to roughly one quart every 5,000 miles. I ride roughly 3000 miles a year and use Amsoil 20/50. I change my oil annually. My local HD dezlership told me to run the oil level half way down the dipstick to alleviate excessive crankcase pressure. I still fill it up to one dot below full. Fueling recommends running regular dino oil and stay away from synthetic. I have not followed their recommendation. I have owned Japanese v twins that also consumed oil. I have owned automobiles that also consumed oil. Most of my riding is in the summer time with temperatures in the 90s. I run Love Jugs, fueling vented dipstick and your external breather system. My engine is not a spitter. When I inspect the catch can every 500 miles, there is very little snot. My bike runs absolutely fantastic. As I have mentioned before, as soon as HD makes a trike with the water cooled engine, I am buying it. I ride with several friends who also ride HDs, and they all consume oil. I am not concerned about it. My oil consumption is consistent and not excessive based on my experiences. I would be concerned if my engine consumed one quart every 1000-1500 miles.
Great to hear you are happy with your ride! 👍 Running it 1 dot below the top line is not what is in your manual, but it is not going to hurt anything either. We talk about, and show what is in the manual, starting at the 3:57 mark in this video - ua-cam.com/video/gJ0vYAitUqU/v-deo.html
@@richardrussell500 I run my oil at the level described in the video link above, around the 4:00 mark...as outlined in the manual. There are two ways to check oil level in the manual. I use the cold method described in the manual, because I have found the hot method takes too long (engine has to be fully hot, 30-45 minutes of riding just to check the oil level) and because I have found it is not as accurate as the cold method.
Interesting... I have found the cold method to be inaccurate. The HD dealership has told me to avoid the cold check just for that reason. I have been told that the cold check is only done to make sure there is a sufficient amount of oil in the bike for start up. For accuracy, you then perform the hot check. So, when you change your oil, do you add 4 quarts and then take the bike for a ride until it is hot and then adjust your oil level? If so, do you add oil up to the full mark?
@@richardrussell500 Dealership is wrong. A cold check is when you start the bike, (and on an M8 pull it off the Jiffy stand) let it run for a couple of minutes, shut if off, then check the oil level. The reason you start it on a cold check is to scavenge any oil that may have settled in the bottom of the engine since it was last run. On both a cold check and a hot check, the manual says to only add oil if the level is at or below the the add quart level (bottom line or dots). When I change my oil I follow the cold check as outlined in the manual....bringing it up to halfway between the top and bottom marks. This way works perfectly. After riding for around an hour, so that the engine and oil are fully heat soaked, sometimes I will check the oil level, for grins and giggles, and it will be very close to the top mark. But I am not going to turn my 5-8 oil changes a year into an hour plus process to use the hot method when the cold method works just as well.
Well , none of my Harelys have used any oil between changes , my 07 electraglide has 90,000kms on it , it doesnt use oil or leak oil, I use motul synthetic oil and have no problems .Im not sure that Harley are going in the right direction with the newer bikes at all , I certainly would not swap my old glide for a new one , I have modified my bike a bit for more grunt and cooler running pretty much as your videos recomend and all you info has worked pretty well , keep it up guys .
It’s not just Harley’s though. I own a 23’ Honda Rebel 1100 brand new off the showroom floor. Did the break in service. 2500 miles and my dip stick is completely dry. Hoping it’s a new vehicle thing.
I hope it is too! You certainly do not want to have to worry about oil every time you are riding! Fingers crossed it just needs to be broke in. Thanks for commenting! 😎 MB
Here's an easy way to know if you have weak piston rings, or excessive blow by. Ok, so you change your oil n filter, n your level is right on, and your ready to go. If your oil after, say a coupla weeks, a few hundred miles or so, looks dirty, that could be a sign of bad or weak rings. The blowby getting past the rings is getting the oil dirty. If you have good ring sealing, the oil should not start getting dirty for a few months or 2-3000 miles. It should still look clean, and that transparent honey color that we like to see. The spark plugs won't always get oily because it igniites the fuel mixture n the combustion that takes place is "pushing down" on the piston, and also around the Piston crown past the rings. Another issue is the breather bolts on the heads. They have small holes, drill them out as big as you can. You want the engine to breathe easy. High rpms will build up pressures and cause leaks. Also the oil level is important. There has to be some air on top of the oil in the tank. Crankcase pressure is what moves the oil. Too much oil, n you'll have oil puking out the air cleaner. In the older Evo's n Shovels, too much oil would blow out the dipstick!!! If these engines sat too long, oil would collect in the crankcase, so you would think the oil level is low n you would top it off! Wrong! The engine would blow the dip stick cap three feet up, puke all over, n also puke from the crankcase breather. It would make a big f**king mess! These are dry sump systems, not wet sumps. They do have their own peculiarities. You have to know how the engine works. And no, they don't work like automobile engines. That's people's first mistake. They think all motors work the same. Then why do we have automobile mechanics, motorcycle mechanics, and aircraft mechanics??? Because they are Not the same!!
I have a 1980 Harley f l t Shovelhead. Seems to be really hard to find information on the oiling system. Every time my Shovelhead sits for awhile I started up it puke it out and makes a mess. The motor is supposed to of had a fresh rebuild but it still has smoke coming out of the tailpipe as well. Very frustrating because the bikes looks amazing just like it did when it came from the factory. I need to find a really good video on where all the oil lines are supposed to go. It also has an enclosed chain so there is a line that goes there to oil the chain
I just did two google searches that look like they yielded good results. With the bike you have, I would highly recommend getting a service manual. It will have the information you're looking for right now, and will have info that you will want to have down the road. 1980 flh shovelhead manual 1980 shovelhead oil flow
Yes, that would be the course of action many take. I would first look and see if there was an easy fix. If not, then I might be looking for another bike...but probably not, I would want to know why it was doing it and hopefully get it fixed under warranty (a real warrant, not HD's current warranty). But I realize I am in a different boat.
My 2007 Fatboy 96 twincam engine has had synthetic engine oil all it's life. I started out replacing the oil every 5K miles, at 20K I started changing the engine oil at 3K miles, or yearly. I run Lucas 20W50 synthetic motorcycle oil year round (I live in east central Mississippi) and use a K&P cleanable oil filter. My Harley used about 3 to 4 oz. of oil between oil changes, now that I change the engine oil at 3K miles, it uses 1 to 2 oz. of engine oil. This is with 46K+ miles on the odometer. I believe most of the oil use is thru the breather system, especially when running highway speeds, 70 to 80 mph. This past week I added one of your DK Customs Oil Catch Cans to my Fatboy, so I can measure how much oil is lost thru the breathers. I also did an inspection of the hydraulic cam chain tensioners, they look new, with zero wear on the pads. Keep the informational videos coming, I watch every one you load up on UA-cam.
Good to hear your bike is running well. We appreciate your business on the catch can, and know that you'll like seeing what was going into the engine, and know that your engine is going to like getting only clean oxygen rich air into the combustion chambers. Glad you're enjoying the videos. 👍
Im breaking in a new 131 crate motor. I put Driven BR 15w50 break in oil in it for the dyno and 400 miles. then Spectro 20w50 V-Twin Heavy Duty conventional. Im at 800 miles now and hasnt burned a drop. Im also using the new HD 29400448 M8 2nd gen transcover that has the breather and catch can in it going to a UNI UP-102 breather filter. Head breathers are blocked off.
Awesome! Glad you have found something that works for you. This video wasn't saying all Harleys burn oil like this, but people have been told it was normal and it is not normal. I am glad you are not having this problem!!! Thank you for commenting! MB
2022 Milwaukee 8 107 electraglide standard first 500 miles lost 1/2 a quart through breather down the side of the bike got 1/4 inch hose gonna re route to oil pan cover.
Wow! Have you checked to see if the oil is at the proper level? Halfway between the bottom and top marks on the dipstick? Here is a video on the subject- ua-cam.com/video/gJ0vYAitUqU/v-deo.html
Also part of the problem at times, is the way people are breaking in their engine, you have people literally running the pi** out of brand new bikes, not using common sense. I'm not saying that's always the case. but I believe people don't treat a brand new bike correctly and crying the blues when moco will not foot the bill. I worked for years for a major automotive company dealer and we use to have people trying pull crap to get warrantee claims. one time a guy had a new just a few thousand miles high end pickup and had it towed in saying the bearings were shot and was demanding engine replacement, when the working mechanic dug into it the dude had water in the engine oil. He submerged the truck 4 wheeling. Then when we busted him he said it should have been able to take it. Let's face it people are sure a lot more crazy, trying to out do someone else and leads to a whole lot of busted new Bikes and automobiles. Anyway nice video full of good Info. Thanks guys.
Engine break-in is a myth that’s been busted. Several side by side comparison’s of the same exact new motorcycle engine being “broke in” completely different. They tore down the engines, took specs and sent the oil to the lab. No noticeable difference, no matter how it’s broke in.
@@freebehindbars8654 sorry I don't buy it, not busting your chops, but just don't buy it. We all know we can make almost any side by side comparison show just about anything we want. Look at oil comparisons, and oil additive comparisons and bla bla bla.
@@davidchereneimmel8820 I understand you not buying it, I was the same, until I saw reputable people doing it. Mr. MC Garage himself, Ari Henning, did a great breakdown of the entire process. Check it out.
While engines made in the last 10-15 years are machined differently than previously (leading many to say that break-in is not important), I still follow the manual for the first 1000 miles...no full throttle, plenty of varying the throttle and gears, Never lugging (during break-in or not), etc. Good point on folks trying to get over on a company regarding warranty. That still does not justify HD saying that it is normal for an engine to use 1 quart every 1500 miles.
I've seen those studies...and the school of thought to ride it when new how you want to ride it later on. I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm still one of those guys that change the oil after the first 500 or so miles.
I've had a 128 build by Moonshine Harley Davidson in Franklin, TN and she burned a quart of oil every 4/500 miles and broke an S & S lifter. Probably because I let the oil get too low cause it was bururning so much. They rebuilt it, installed new rings and stuff and still burns that much oil???
That is unusual. Moonshine has a good reputation. I would pursue things with them. Something is awry if the oil is halfway between the top and bottom mark (see videos below) and it is burning a quart every 400 or 500 miles. ua-cam.com/video/thzjNfl95ro/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/gJ0vYAitUqU/v-deo.html
The only time my 103 TC used oil is after 80k miles and at 110k I replaced the motor with a factory 103.. I have installed an Ultra Cool twin fan oil cooler, DK reusable oil filter, 1" DK tank lift, LeNale cylinder fan,DK ext breather
Good Deal. Thanks for sharing! Sounds like you are enjoying your ride. Good to hear you are using some of our parts. Thank you. Wishing you many more miles of smiles on your ride! 👍😎👍 KP
Y'all videos helped me out a few times and I want to say thank you. I REALLY appreciate the technical and opinions on stuff that's shared. It keeps my A.D.D. in check. :)
Just curious, I come from the automotive world as a 45 year master tech. Does Harley use low tension piston rings? in the auto world overheat it one time with them and the engine can be an oil burner.
I have a 2024 Street Glide and just had to add 1 full quart after 1500 miles exactly. Even had my check engine and oil light come on. After add the oil and checking the fill level, lights are off.
It is good that you checked the oil and added what was needed. I would recommend having it looked at by a mechanic or your dealer to make sure there is nothing wrong. I hope that it was just a fluke and you do not have any more problems. Congrats on your new 24 SG. Wishing you many miles of smiles! Thank you for commenting! MB
Yes. Agreed. Viscosity is a measure of a fluid's resistance to flow. It describes the internal friction of a moving fluid. A fluid with large viscosity resists motion because its molecular makeup gives it a lot of internal friction. Viscosity modifiers being damaged from too much heat can be an issue with Harleys that run too hot for their own good. Our use of the term thicker was an avoidance of getting sidetracked down a rabbit hole. This is a huge topic for the air cooled and twin cooled Harleys.
@@DKCustomProducts I do not wish to go down a rabbit hole but to assist in learning about Lubricants . The breaking down of oil that you mention is referred to as tanning . When tanning occurs shortly after particulate will also occurs. I’ve worked with fuels an oil labs an engineers. If you sample oil hourly you will see tanning an particulate levels rise . You can see what is breaking down inside the engine by determining what metals are present. Oil is a fluid bearing surface . When it is compromised heat will also increase when that happens a catastrophic failure will occur .The more frequently the oil is changed the longer your engine will last. Flow benches can confirm this (ran those to). Oil is a slippery slope
If you have enough fuel passing the rings that it would make a measurable difference in the oil level...there is a problem that needs addressing. Do a leakdown test, as shown in the following video. If it fails, gotta fix it, then cool that engine down so it does not happen again. ua-cam.com/video/gojpttZQjKk/v-deo.html Below is a link to a report on why and how to cool down your Twin Cam & M8 engines. www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm Thank you for commenting! KP
I have a 2019 RG 107 M8 with minor mods like 465 cam, pump, plate and full Rinehart exhaust, vented dipstick. Took a trip in August last year in 90 plus degree heat from Chicago to Savannah GA and back checking oil levels every other tank fill and did NOT burn one drop of oil ! I was actually shocked as I expected to use “maybe” a half quart. Not one drop of oil burned ! I was averaging 75 miles per hour at 3000 rpm also. No sumping and no consumption. It is NOT normal to burn even a half quart in 2000 miles as my bike is living proof. Harley just don’t want to admit faults in their products. I was ready to rebuild my motor if I used any oil but I’m glad to say I have a good one.
Nice, sounds like a gun ride! Yes, the vast majority use no perceptible amount of oil. For those that do, the policy is ridiculous. Fortunately it is not many that see usage. Thanks for sharing! 👍
I have a ‘21 Road Glide Limited (114) with over 16,000 miles. I ran conventional oil in it until it was at about 12,250 miles, and then switched it to 20W-50 synthetic at that point because I was taking it on a long trip (about 3000 miles). Prior to this, it would hold oil level pretty steady. I noticed that the level was going down each time I checked it during that trip, so I topped it off about halfway back from my trip. Took half a quart. No leaks that I could see. Funny thing is, it never went down after that. Oil change done when I got back (still on synthetic) and it’s been steady since. That trip was Colorado to Los Angeles and back. This past summer I rode Colorado to Virginia and back and oil level was steady, though, I had an oil change done while I was out in Virginia.
@@thedewdster A little oil usage is normal, especially on long hard runs, and more so if it is really hot, and even more so if running 20-50 in hot weather. BUT, not a quart every 1500 or even 3000 miles.
I bought my bike off the floor of a dealership and I rode it home approximately 30 miles,for her home and checked the oil and not an inkling of a drop of oil was found,I was so pissed ,called my salesman back and told him and he says,” The bike was fully serviced before I took her home,so I dropped a quart of synthetic oil in her and she drank it all up,meaning of this message? “ Don’t trust the dealership “!!!
My 74 ironhead doesn't use that much, without valve stem seals. My 98 Softail was going through it pretty good with no smoke or fouled plugs. Found where it was going when I serviced the primary. Quart gone from the oil bag but what is this, primary is a Q overfull. New sprocket shaft seal fixed that.
I have a 18 streetbob with the stock 107 and when I do oil changes I buy the oil change kits from Harley Davidson and they don’t give me enough oil I always end up having to get one more court for some reason Harley likes the oil level right at the end of the dipstick. When it was still under warranty and I had to take it to the dealership to get oil changes I will always have to argue with them to put another half quart or sometimes full quart in my bike. It seems like Harley is run by lawyers and not people who actually ride motorcycles their companies all about covering their ass.
Thanks for the comment. Yeah, the oil, when the engine is cold, should be halfway between the top and bottom line. I've never bought an oil change kit from HD, so have not experienced what you have.
50k miles on my Road King and it burns about 1qt between services and I usually change all three holes between 4 and 5k miles and spark plugs every service. My buddy has a 2008 that he's put 160k on it and hasn't cracked the case open yet. Fingers crossed I'm so lucky.
Also I just had a leak down test performed on mine at 50k since I have a 4k mile trip in 2 weeks and it was only losing 5% which I was told is pretty good for the mileage it has on it.
On my '22 Low Rider ST, with M8 117, approx 350 miles after initial service it showed a quart low. Dealer topped it off. I figured they did not put in correct amount of oil at initial service. 1,900 miles later it now reads 1/2 quart low. ??? I don't really trust this dealer's service dept any more. This wasn't the only time I was skeptical about their service. This is my 4th Harley that I have owned. I am a Rider not a mechanic/technician 🤔. I go to this dealer because they are only a mile from my house. Next dealer is 75 miles away. Do you have any suggestions? Edit: I just watched another of your videos... tech tip M8 Oil consumption from 9 months ago. May be possible that reading 1/2 quart low may be where my M8 is happy. I will keep an eye on it🤞
Yes, it sounds like that is where it is happy. If you are not happy with your local dealership, are their any independent shops near you that have good folks work at them?
Great job guys. From what you have said keeping your engine cool is the most important thing you can do. I plan on adding the oil filter relocation and another cooler to my 21 Tri glide. After that I plan on the fans for the heads. I have already done a few things that you have suggested. Only have had it 6 months and 3000 miles and everything fine so far but I want it to stay that way. Thanks guys for the info.
Thank you for the kind words. We appreciate your business, and glad you are enjoying the parts. Yep, keeping it cool is important for max power, avoiding accelerated wear, and less heat radiating out to the rider and passenger. Glad you are enjoying your ride! 👍
Only a quart? That's doing good, the ones I've had have always been more than that...my Hondas don't use a drop...never had a Harley that didn't leak...one thing about my Road King as opposed to my Hondas is that the Road King demands a pre-ride inspection to make sure the fluid levels are topped off...with my Hondas, I can just put the key in & go...dare not do that with the Road King, I'll wind up burning it up...
Yeah, but what can you do? Nature of the beast...I love the look of their bikes, but I hate the company...they try to weasel out of warranty work all the time, not that I've ever had one with a warranty, I don't need a 2nd mortgage, but I know plenty who do & apparently this guy's getting the shaft too...meanwhile I just keep a spare quart & a funnel in the bags & ride on...I use my Hondas for daily riding to keep my low milage classic low milage, (1999 & just rolled over 23K, had 12.5K on it when I bought it in 2017), & use the Road King for road trips, since it's the better long haul bike...but still gotta keep those fluid levels topped off...friggin' sucks, but to change the oil pan gasket, I'd have to pull the engine & I'm not set up for that kind of major surgery & have nobody to help with it either & Hardly Everruns charges too much for me to pay them to do it...just kinda gotta hope for the best really...
@@Road_Rash that's a 22 year old bike. Newer Harleys do not burn oil like that. You're talking about a bike more than two decades old. It's a world of differences now. This one guy had a problem but that doesn't reflect the hundreds if not thousands that don't have issues at all.
Horse 💩...I know plenty of people who have bought M8s & had nothing but problems...my bike is not the only one I have experience with...I've also had a CVO Electra Glide that had a laundry list of problems that was much newer than this one, it leaked too...I sold it & decided that if I was going to own a leaky problematic bike, it would be one that didn't have a note on it...they're all capable of this crap because it's just what this company does...puts out overpriced, underquality bikes that break on a regular basis...
I have a ‘21 Low Rider S with just under 4K miles on it. I have once put a half quart in it at about 2k and just put 3/4 quart yesterday at 4K. I put a EBS on it just after 500 miles. I figured it’s coming out there but I wonder?
I’m riding from Va to Az in May… I’ll keep an out for consumption. 2018 ultra limited. Thanks for the knowledge. I have noticed a slight decrease around 5,000 miles
Glad you enjoyed the video. Have fun on your cross-country trip. Excessive oil usage is the exception on Harley's, not the rule. Mary and I rode all the way to the Arctic Circle and back, around 11,500 miles. I did have two oil changes during that trip, but no more than 2-3 ounces of oil usage between oil changes.
To be honest most manufacturers print some sort of oil consumption paper to Tech's, I worked for Jaguar back in the 90's and they said a quart every 700 miles even though it never burned any after 3000 miles.
Yes, we have learned that since putting out this video. Crazy that they do not want to fix the few that have a problem that makes for such high consumption.
@@DKCustomProducts my guess there is a problem with the rings or possibly valve seals but I would lean towards a problem with the oil control rings, yes they should stand behind the product and fix the problem due to the price they charge of these new bikes.
I have an external breather on my trike, but 1 quart every 1500mls would have a carbon build up issue very quickly. What is your opinion on running fuel additives like fuel injector cleaner and so on every 10,000 miles or so to reduce carbon piston build up
With an External Breather System you should have little, or no, carbon build up on your pistons. I always keep a bottle of Sea Foam with me. If I get a bad tank of gas I dump it in and it helps. It will help the injectors and will dissolve carbon deposits also.
I have a 2024 Road King Special and I ran out west to Rapid City about 820 miles and i used 1 quart of oil and when I left my bike had 2,800 miles on it I'm pissed
I would recommend doing a leak-down test. It will show if the rings or valve seats are a problem, and if they are, then you are under warranty and should be able to get it repaired under warranty. Here is a video on a leak-down test- ua-cam.com/video/gojpttZQjKk/v-deo.html What I have done in the past is tell the dealership that I will pay for the test if it passes, but if it does not pass, and they have to do warranty work on it, then they pay for the leak down test....OR, you can do it yourself, and if it does not look good then you can take it in to them knowing that they have to do some work on it under warranty for you. Yeah, it sucks...HD has been having some trouble with out of round cylinders, also with rings installed wrong on the production line. KP
2016 streetglide only use amsoil 20-50 full synthetic ,67000 miles now 6000 between oil change doesnt use a drop Vegas to Pueblo 920 miles 12hrs 15 min door to door 96 degrees out never missed a beat
There were a few years that some M8's had a oil transfer from the transmission to the primary problem. That was solved with a vent. See video below. Other than that, HD transmissions do not burn/use oil. ua-cam.com/video/B_EhFFKvHEM/v-deo.html
I have a 20 sgs with 9000 I don’t burn any maybe a oz maybe I broke in properly and she runs great I think proper break in has a lot todo with this problem
Yes, a lot of folks have noted that break in has to do with it. Just as many have broken it in per the manual and still have more than the average amount of oil consumption. Glad yours is treating you well. 👍
@@capecodbiker9902 Fortunately it is a small % of folks that get a new bike with high oil consumption. When purchasing a used bike, it is very important to do a leak-down test first to make sure it is not overly worn or has poorly machined cylinders from the factory.
My 2019 Street Glide has 4900 miles on it I just did a 3 hole oil change with Amsoil but it hasn't used any oil nor has it had the blow by issues I've heard about. I did the Trask crank case vent and Harley also vented the trans under warranty to prevent oil transfer. I feel like this may be a riding style issue as well. If you ride your Harley like its a crotch rocket you may cause your bike to use oil.
There are a lot of variables...is the engine fully warmed up, ambient temp, what weight oil, etc. But HD says, when oil is at 230F, at idle it should be 5 PSI, and at cruising RPM it should be 30-38 PSI.
Im at the bottom of the HD learning curve but Im fairly logical when it comes to quality and cheap parts...So heres my take on this and several other things Im seeing and reading about HD The Company, HD need to walk the damn walk, they promote American made and are selling weak parts and hiding engineering issues, Man up HD!!! Great video guys, easy to understand and straight to the point!!
And Lastly ... the synthetic oil isn't doing anyone any favors UNLESS the viscosity is way up there and I NEVER run it in the primary ( causes slight clutch slippage on a stock bike and that builds heat ) the M8 only needs about 4.4 quarts of oil in the motor to be really happy ... The earlier M8s are more susceptible to these issues as there were oiling issues and scavenging issues and Valve seat issues ( see Tmans Valve Seat videos... funny and informative ) most of which were taken care of in 2020... I suspect that much like of the twin-cam in 2016 Harley-Davidson will perfect the milwaukee-eight and right at the Pinnacle of its success replace it with something else just like the 2016 2017 twin cams LOL LOL
Thank you for your comments. Greatly appreciated. Do you think they will go 15 or so years with the M8? Or will the electric/watercooled push them to go faster on the next evolution?
3000 mile trip. I had installed breather bypass but no catch can yet and had oil all down side of my bike and all over my pants. T Pre bypass that oil would have been gone straight into my throttle body.
By a breather bypass, are you saying an External Breather System? If so, where is your hose routed to that you are getting oil on the bike and your pants? Here's a video entitled- Why is there oil down the side of my bike? You may find it useful- ua-cam.com/video/gJ0vYAitUqU/v-deo.html And here is a video that you may also find interesting- ua-cam.com/video/EfDeFZblMck/v-deo.html
My 2021 doesn't seem to use any oil. My buddy has a 2022 that uses 2-3 quarts between oil changes. He rides it like a pissed off teenager. Most of his rides are 20 miles to the next tavern at 90 miles per hour. He just bitches that his bike is junk. I honestly would suspect the ventilation breathers into the air cleaner first. He won't investigate it.
30,000 miles so far on my 2011 ultra 96 and have used nothing that I can see on the dipstick. Change the oil every 5k. Have never had to add any anywhere.
The more of these videos i watch i just love my 02 twincam more and more haha. 75k miles, 40k on 95kit, cams etc. Ive never had to add a drop of oule between oil changes. Sure it doesnt make m8 power but being lighter then the newer ones and me only weighing 135 pounds it keeps up with the newer ones just fine.
I have a 1997 road king with an 80 Evo. I burn through 1 quart of oil every 800 miles. It occasionally blows grey smoke out of the exhaust, I have no idea why.
@@DKCustomProducts I’m sure you are correct. I have 60,000 miles on it, I can’t complain too much about getting 60,000 miles on the original engine with no work done to it whatsoever. When it comes time to rebuild it, I think I’m going to get rid of the Marelli fuel injection system. It actually is operating fine, I haven’t had any major issues with it, but if I’m going through the trouble of getting the engine done, I’ll probably take it to a carburetor to avoid any hassles in the future. Thanks for the reply.
It could be that when manufactured, a set of rings of the wrong size (i.e. -0.020, -0.030, -0.040 under the bore diameter were installed. This would result in a ring end gap that after the break in period (ring seat) is nearly or actually at the threshold value of actual replacement. Production lines don't usually cease when a mistake like that is discovered if only a few builds or a certain amount of manufacturer specified builds has not been exceeded. You can almost bet that something of that nature has taken place in the production environment. Something of this nature can also occur from supply line disruptions or shortages. It may be simple ring substitutions that would limit damage to the engine while allowing a working model to continue to be produced. With excessive heat build up that always leads to metallic expansion, allowable ring end gap can be the difference between an engine that burns a little oil, and a catastrophic, possibly fatal event.
Yes, there have been more than a few M8's with the wrong size rings or with poor quality rings, and one more common problem... The ring gaps not staggered, but all aligned. Finally, there has been a problem with OEM cylinders being out of round or of poor quality.
That is strange, was anything else done to the engine at that point besides a fluid change? First thing I would do, or have done, is a leakdown test. You will probably find that one, or both cylinders, are in poor condition. Here's a video on a leakdown test- ua-cam.com/video/gojpttZQjKk/v-deo.html
Last year Harley made a Dyna was in 2017, so the newest Dyna is 5 years old. Still not good to use a lot of oil. Death wobble is a matter of a worn part or something misaligned.
That explains it. I have an M8 114 with Stage 2 (475 cam). I’ve done the breather blow by mod which keeps it out of my intake but I still get some oil out of the filter pod used for that mod. It’s not as bad as it was before the breather mod but it’s still present. That said I just added a quart (after riding about 2700 miles) and barely got on the dipstick. This is my first HD and I’m not used a bike that burns that much oil. At this rate, I won’t have to pay for an oil change (joking).
If I have to add a quart every 1500 miles, no need to ever do a full oil change. Just change the filter every 5000 miles. 2002flhrci, original owner, 80K miles, I might add maybe a 1/2 quart every 5000 miles just to keep level at the 'full' mark. Could easily not bother adding any oil between 5,000 mile oil changes.
In Harley Speak those are not Technical Service Bulletins .... Those are internal Tech Tips ( TT) meant for Diagnosing Technicians and service writers ... from my years in Harley Davidson Service departments the number 1 reason why TRUE oil consumption IS..............the way the customer broke in the Motorcycle in .... The easiest way to instantly be 1/2 to 3/4 quart low with an M8 is to start the bike on the Jiffy stand.... the design of the OE pump causes about that amount of oil to be pumped into the bellies and not given time to scavenge out . Being on the inside I followed Every tiny detail of the break in procedure and I have Zero smoke on start up .... use about 2 oz or so between oil changes . I follow the temp chart religiously ... I follow the service procedures religiously ... I also use everything available to cool it down using your products with great success... and one last thought ...ITS NOT PARADE MODE FOLKS LOL ... Engine Idle Temp Management is meant Soley for rider and passenger comfort ... Harley Expressly states that the feature is not meant to be an Engine saver in heat ... just for brief periods of stoppage where ones foot and inner thigh may get toasty ...lol Thanks for the open forum Kevin ... love all you cats do!
Hey Paul, Thanks for the comment/information. Yeah, we messed up and called it a bulletin when it is clearly labeled as a Tech Tip. 😬 Question for you (and maybe a video we can do in a couple of months), what is the best way to break in a Harley M8? Also, thank you for reminding me about the kickstand on an M8. Does this also apply to the newest M8 oil pump? Dwayne and I need to do a video on this. We do appreciate your business, and are happy you are experiencing great success with them. Yeah, EITMS is for comfort, not for actually cooling the engine any significant amount. We are in the middle of a video test on that subject.
To a very small degree that is correct. But if everything is machined correctly and there is a good External Breather System, any bit of extra pressure from slightly larger pistons should still vent easily.
Wow really. I have an old 78 ironhead an it doesn’t use an oil . My 2019 ultra limited has 21.000 miles on an the only time I have to add oil is when I do my service at 5000.miles if it’s using oil majority of times it’s coming past the rings . Or excessive oil going through the breather to the intake . Nuff said.
Good to hear your bikes are using minimal oil. You may find this video interesting regarding oil into the intake- ua-cam.com/video/EfDeFZblMck/v-deo.html
I run the Harley 20-50 full synthetic oil, in the engine. I have owned a 2020, 107-inch, Electa Glide standard and if I ran 75 mph-80 mph steady for 80 miles the 107 engine would use 2 ounces of oil but no oil was used if I ran steady at 70 mph all day long. On my 2019 Road, 114 the same thing. Bumped my 114 inch up to 128 inches and run the Fueling oil pump and backing plate and if I run steadily at 70 mph no oil is used but the engine uses 2 ounces of oil if I run steadily at 75 -80 mph for 80 miles. I installed your vented head breathers on all of these bikes, and also run a Fuel vented dipstick. I also run my engine a quart low as recommended by the top engine builders.
Thanks for sharing your experience. We appreciate your business, and I'm sure your bike likes having only clean oxygen rich air going into it. That is a lot of oil...2 ounces for 80 miles.
@@DKCustomProducts ---> That is only when I ride at steady speeds of 75-80 mph for at least one hour. If I ride at a steady speed of 70 mph my 107-inch engine, my 114 engine, and then my built 128 engine doesn't use any oil at all. My 114-inch engine and then did a 128-inch build on it has water-cooled heads. But all of them use no less than one ounce of oil if I ride for an hour at 75-80 mph.
It really is crazy! Burning that much oil does not seem normal but we do not have any experience with Subaru unfortunately. Thank you for commenting! MB
Makes me wonder why I still have an HD....then I ride it and grin 😀 😎
YEP! Hit the nail on the head! 👍🏍👍
I can relate 👍
Charge 10s of thousands of dollars for a bike and not stand behind your product... dealerships are trash. I do my own work. Thank God for UA-cam and graybeards
I think HD stands behind their product...just with too many "gotchas".
It is disappointing how few experienced mechanics are working at dealerships. If you find a good one, count yourself lucky. If you can't, best to do the work yourself to make sure it's done right.
Thanks for your comment. 👍
I have a '21 114 Road Glide Special with 9000 miles on it. Rode it relatively easy the first 500 miles, didn't burn a drop of oil. Changed out the oil at 500 miles and put 4500 more miles on it without losing any oil. After 9000 total miles my oil level doesn't move unless I change it. I ride in SoCal pretty aggressively through the windy mountain roads with lots of elevation change and hot temps. The only thing done to the engine is slipon mufflers and an ultracool oil cooler.
I have a ‘17 Street Glide 107-M8 and I’ve only done slip-ons, oil cooler and a tune. At every 2,000 miles I maybe lost 2 ounces tops and the bikes at 10,000 miles now. I’ve noticed people with stage 2 and higher seem to have major issues with oil loss, extreme blow by, etc etc. makes me kinda glad I haven’t upgraded too much yet.
Great to hear, you are in the majority. Thanks for the comment. 👍
Glad to hear you're enjoying your ride.
Thanks for your comment. 👍
What brand of oil you running in that heat?
@@RGHD912 Amsoil 20w-50, in the engine, Amsoil primary in the chaincase and Amsoil 75w140 severe gear in the transmission.
I have a 2013 FLTRU Road Glide with the 103 c.i. motor and man did that sucker puke oil. I mean a lot of oil... from day one!!! I would have to replace the air filter and clean the entire filter assembly each oil change which I would do every 3000 miles and I would still get oil down the side of my bike as it dripped out of the air cleaner. I would buy 5 quarts of oil every time I would change the oil. Three for the oil change and the rest to keep the oil tank topped off. The dealer said, "yeah, that happens. Put a quart less oil in it." But wait! Isn't it an oil cooled motor? What a terrible bit of advice because oil level didn't matter, it would puke oil no matter what the oil level in the tank was until it completely ran out, as I soon discovered while testing various theories. Yes, on a long trip, running a quart less of oil soon had my bike making clattering noises as the pickup starved for oil and the oil gauge would rise in pressure and then drop to zero cyclically. Amsoil prevented permanent damage on that dumb suggestion, and it also meant that I was not over filling it. I had a real problem. I purchased a catch can kit can as a potential solution, but that was a Band-Aid on a severed jugular vein. I would have to empty the catch can every 1000 miles or that would start puking oil down the bike so I looked for other solutions. I did the oil drain test with the oil fill opening capped. The oil barely gurgled out. Opened the filler cap and it gushed out, so the umbrella valves were fine, but I replaced them anyway. No joy. Still puked oil. Then I started thinking about how much oil my poor engine had probably ingested before I put a catch can on. I took off the intake manifold and both runners into the intake port were completely covered in jellied oil. I removed the heads and the pistons were coked with wet, oily thick carbon. You could barely see the valve reliefs cuts in the piston and the combustion chambers had so much oil soaked carbon deposits, it was amazing the compression relief valve was working because you almost couldn't see it in the head anymore. I had watched a video about how cam support plates are made: Cast Aluminum. Which means there are variations in each and every cam plate with regards to the oil galleries. Some are fine but others are not, and Harley doesn't test every one of them to make sure they are working correctly. I didn't know how it was doing it but I theorized that my cam support plate was allowing excess oil to pool in the upper head and that every time I decelerated, pooled oil was getting pushed out of the upper head when the umbrella valves opened and would cause the oil to both gush into the intake and puke down the side of the bike. I ceremoniously chucked the stock cam plate and oil pump with a billet aluminum version from a reputable company that assured me that each oil journal/gallery was tested to make sure it flowed to spec. During replacement, I checked the crank runout and I replaced several other items while I was in there that you should, such as upgraded bearings and chain tensioners, and while I wasn't sure that my expensive theory would work, I still figured it would be a worthy upgrade for the engine anyway. I also scraped the pistons with a brass scraper and cleaned the chambers with a Dremel. The pistons, after cleaning, had pock marks which were sure signs of detonation, likely from the loss of chamber volume and increased compression but they were otherwise still in good shape. After reassembly and buttoning it up I realized my solution worked. No more puking oil! No more overflowing catch can. No more oil down the side of my bike and no more oiled carbon buildup on the combustion chambers. It also seemed like it had more power, I am assuming due to the computer previously retarding timing to deal with detonation problems it had obviously been dealing with. Now when I check the catch can after an oil change, the media I have in it might be damp with oil, but there is no oil to dump out of the container itself. So this time, my theory and solution were spot on. So if you have looked into everything else and you still have a problem with oil puking down the side of your bike, and no other solution has worked, you might have a malfunctioning cam support plate that never worked right from the factory to begin with. I just turned 70,000 miles on the bike this last week and I thought about how much I loved it and how well it was running. I also had zero help from the dealer's service department. I only trust them to provide whatever service parts I request.
Great information. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience.
While most HD's do not experience excessive oil consumption, when they do, that magic little disclaimer "1 quart of oil consumption every 1500 miles" takes HD off the hook and leaves the Customer to accept it or to do the work of fixing it themselves.
Glad you got it resolved and have enjoyed many miles of smiles on it since doing the work yourself. 👍
The service manager and part owner of my local HD dealer actually read this to me. We both looked at each other and wondered who the hell wrote this. He shows me it came straight from HD.
Sounds like a good Service Manager! 👍
I concur with your comments. None of my Sportys,Evo,Twin Cams,or M8 use oil. A big factor is also changing oil on time.👍
Thanks for sharing and commenting! 😎
this is not normal and dont let them tell you it is i f your using a liter every 1500miles you will see a lot of blue coming out of the pipes
I agree! It is not good even if they try to say it is normal. Thank you for commenting! MB
I work off a Road King. I have to add a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles. Most of the guys I work with have to do the same even though they often don't. It's not unusual for them to pull their oil dipsticks and find no oil touching the stick because they've failed to check it. My current bike was 2 quarts low at my first 5k service when I was issued the bike from another coworker. I don't recommend that. We run them WOT over and over again and get them super hot with cone drills and whatnot. I suspect our oil consumption is for those reasons and not really because of any manufacturing defect. They are tough machines for how used and abused they get. I just make sure to check the oil regularly so that it has full capacity for cooling and lubricating. Fortunately, I don't have to foot the bill for every quart of oil. Maintain your bikes. I've done that with my issued bike and have had way less issues than my coworkers. Most of our issues are electrical related due to the equipment we carry on the bikes so I wouldn't expect civilian variants to have the same. But others have been from pure neglect. My bike pulls super hard and even harder on cool days. I use Syn3 in all three holes and prefer it, Mobil 1 or any comparable oil for all three holes. What you put in your primary and transmission greatly affects how the bike feels when clutching and shifting. I don't like Formula+. We (my coworkers and I) should probably perform fluid changes more often than we do just based on how hot we get the bikes but I suppose that's not as necessary when we consume as much oil as we do. I think we just get the bikes super hot, it thins the oil out which causes it to burn off easier. That's pure conjecture on my part though. Our intakes are a little oily from the breather bolts but nothing crazy. If you're bike is still running good and pulling hard, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Thank you for sharing your rear world experience. 👍
Definitely hard riding and lots of heat during drills and traffic will contribute to consumption.
I know your bike is issued, but you mention that it pulls harder on cool days.
That is how many of us civilians would like our bikes to run 100% of the time, even on hot days...which is one of the reasons we like to cool them down.
You are 100% correct, Harley has done an outstanding job at making them run regardless of the circumstances.
My '02 88ci FLHRCI never used a drop of oil between oil changes, irrespective of ambient temps, running full-synth 20W50 with ambient temps -7 (Celsius) in winter to 46 in summer. I run between 8 and 10k kilometers annually. Bought her in 2020 with 18k and almost 40k on the clock now. Now having 100ci S&S big bore build done. My firm belief is that MoCo is throwing its customers to the wolves, selling bikes with substandard engineering, without necessary ancillary cooling equipment. Love your channel, guys.
Great to hear about your ride.
Like hearing that you are finding the videos useful. 👍
Thanks guys! Just picked up my first HD, an 07 Dyna low. Motor wise it’s stock, just slip ons. Got your 606 intake and FP3 coming. Bike had 70,000 on it when I picked it up two weeks ago, now pushing 71. Seems like it’s running good, no noise, smoke, etc. This winter it will be gone through, more worried about the bottom end than the top. Just hoping the crank is still usable without having it worked on. Learned a lot y’all already and I appreciate it.
Congrats on your first HD. 👍
Glad you are finding the videos useful. Wishing you many miles of smiles on your Dyna.
Improper ring seating when new. And another topic that doesn't get talked about is not having negative crank case pressure. When you go to external oil breathers you take care of a portion of the problem but create another . You now no longer have the vacuum that was created to remove positive crank case psi.
Do you have any proof or testing results of this recent theory that has been circulating regarding HD's?
The recently circulating theory of needing vacuum from the intake for better ring seal is just that, a theory. No tests or evidence as been posted showing that to be true.
The holes in the tubes in the intake (and subsequent passageways back to the crank case) are so small that the vacuum created in the intake takes the path of least resistance, pulling in thru the filter element.
btw, I've seen a couple of videos of folks trying to measure that phantom vacuum thru the venting system. They were both honest in disclosing that they could not get any measurable reading.
@@DKCustomProducts it's not just an epa thing or a theory Look up George Bryces vids he explains vacuum.
@@taps_1021 I've watched his videos...he provides no documentation that what he is talking about is a reality. He does say very clearly that it is just his opinion, and that it could be wrong. He also states that whatever he says is "true" today is good for only 7 days, because he is always learning new things. Additionally, 90% of what he talks about is on radically built engines, not HD engines that are stock, Stage I-IV.
@@DKCustomProducts the breather holes in a twincam are not tiny. At 11mm or .0400 x 2 . Now the oil return is tiny. George Bryce is an N/A engine builder whether it's big hp or stock all engines operate under the same guidelines. From your car to your motorcycle. Positive crank case is not good . Next time measure how much psi comes out of the breathers at idle and 3k rpms .
I have a 2016 heritage Softail with 52,000 miles trouble-free doesn't use no oil whatsoever between oil changes every 3000 miles.
Good to hear. 👍 Enjoy the wind!
Wow! I wouldn't own a bike that used a quart every 1500 miles. That's ridiculous, and Harley should be ashamed!
Meanwhile, Japanese bikes might burn an ounce every 1500 miles.
Which is the same for most Harley's. A very small % use more than an ounce or two every 5000 miles.
Metric bikes are in the same boat, most consume little, a few consume a lot. How any MFG. deals with the exceptions is where you may see differences.
I hear you.
I have a 2012 Road King Classic, 103 twin cam. My bike doesn't use ANY oil between oil changes, and I only change oil every 5,000 miles. I run AMSOIL, and my bike has 119,000 miles on it, and the motor has never been touched. The bike still runs very strong, doesn't puff a bit of smoke even with cold starts, and I check the oil level every time I ride. The level never moves.
Thanks for sharing, that is great!
I had a twin cam 103 high output on a 2014 Ultra and it never lost a drop of oil ever. Almost 30k miles with zero oil consumption. Just traded up to a M8 114 on a 2020 Ultra so we'll see how this one goes.
Yep, it does not happen with many of them, just a small %, like any other engine.
Wishing you many miles of smiles on your M8. 👍
my 2016 FLTRU is also solid. No oil loss.
Should have kept your 103.
called dk custom for tech support. to my surprise, I had the pleasure of speaking to dwayne. thank you so much for answering all my concerns. and your recommendations. love you guys videos. keep the video coming and ill. keep watching.
Thanks for the good words. Glad you're liking the videos, and we appreciate your business. 👍
Have always run 1/2 a quart low and never consumed oil or had it purging from breathers making a mess, I just bought an FLHT m8 new and will be installing your external breather system!!
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
We appreciate your business! 👍
I own three Harleys, with over 30,000 mi on each, no oil usage on any of them. I live in Fl. They get hot. I use Mobil 1 V twin20 50
Good deal. Fortunately most are in the same boat, no significant oil usage.
Yes, is normal - stage 2, 3 and 4. HD engines are designed to be TUNED.
This is saying that it is normal for an OEM Harley to burn that much oil. If your Harley is burning that much oil I would have it checked out.
Not sure who is building, what kind of Stage II, III & IV's you're seeing burning that much oil.
We've owned several Stage IV's and many more Stage II's, and none of them have burned even 1/4 of a quart in 1500 miles.
Thanks for commenting! MB
I have a 2018 FLTRU with 75,000kms on it...bought it new and change all 3 holes every 8,000 kms or less. Mine has never been down more than 1/4 of a liter at the 8,000kms mark. Have a stage 2 with power cam and I ride it hard but don't abuse it. Have always used syn 3 in all holes. Great vid was surprised we see this in the M8's
Good deal, glad you're bike is doing well on low oil consumption...most are the same as yours...what sucks is that some are not and HD calls it normal.
Enjoy your Ride! 👍
I have a 2021 Road Glide Special with 6,000 miles. The 114 ci engine is losing a quart every 1,500. I'm working with the dealership. They said drive for 500 miles and come back. I did that today and they did some tests and said they will be contacting HD Monday.
Probability is high that you will be getting new cylinders and rings. Great to hear your Dealership is going to bat for you. 👍
To update, I was down 8 dots on the stick after 1,000 miles, which puts it in the 2,000 mile window. Not good for a new bike, but within spec. No sense putting in premium oil. Thanks guys!!
😱🙁
I am on my second M8 114 bike... both engines consumed oil. I broke both engines in as recommended by HD. My current bike, which is a 2020 Freewheeler, consumes roughly 3.55 ounces (1 dot on dipstick) every 500 miles, which equates to roughly one quart every 5,000 miles. I ride roughly 3000 miles a year and use Amsoil 20/50. I change my oil annually. My local HD dezlership told me to run the oil level half way down the dipstick to alleviate excessive crankcase pressure. I still fill it up to one dot below full. Fueling recommends running regular dino oil and stay away from synthetic. I have not followed their recommendation. I have owned Japanese v twins that also consumed oil. I have owned automobiles that also consumed oil. Most of my riding is in the summer time with temperatures in the 90s. I run Love Jugs, fueling vented dipstick and your external breather system. My engine is not a spitter. When I inspect the catch can every 500 miles, there is very little snot. My bike runs absolutely fantastic. As I have mentioned before, as soon as HD makes a trike with the water cooled engine, I am buying it. I ride with several friends who also ride HDs, and they all consume oil. I am not concerned about it. My oil consumption is consistent and not excessive based on my experiences. I would be concerned if my engine consumed one quart every 1000-1500 miles.
Great to hear you are happy with your ride! 👍
Running it 1 dot below the top line is not what is in your manual, but it is not going to hurt anything either.
We talk about, and show what is in the manual, starting at the 3:57 mark in this video - ua-cam.com/video/gJ0vYAitUqU/v-deo.html
@@DKCustomProducts I have read the manual and studied this HD oil issue extensively... do you run your oil level at full?
@@richardrussell500 I run my oil at the level described in the video link above, around the 4:00 mark...as outlined in the manual.
There are two ways to check oil level in the manual. I use the cold method described in the manual, because I have found the hot method takes too long (engine has to be fully hot, 30-45 minutes of riding just to check the oil level) and because I have found it is not as accurate as the cold method.
Interesting... I have found the cold method to be inaccurate. The HD dealership has told me to avoid the cold check just for that reason. I have been told that the cold check is only done to make sure there is a sufficient amount of oil in the bike for start up. For accuracy, you then perform the hot check. So, when you change your oil, do you add 4 quarts and then take the bike for a ride until it is hot and then adjust your oil level? If so, do you add oil up to the full mark?
@@richardrussell500 Dealership is wrong.
A cold check is when you start the bike, (and on an M8 pull it off the Jiffy stand) let it run for a couple of minutes, shut if off, then check the oil level.
The reason you start it on a cold check is to scavenge any oil that may have settled in the bottom of the engine since it was last run.
On both a cold check and a hot check, the manual says to only add oil if the level is at or below the the add quart level (bottom line or dots).
When I change my oil I follow the cold check as outlined in the manual....bringing it up to halfway between the top and bottom marks.
This way works perfectly. After riding for around an hour, so that the engine and oil are fully heat soaked, sometimes I will check the oil level, for grins and giggles, and it will be very close to the top mark.
But I am not going to turn my 5-8 oil changes a year into an hour plus process to use the hot method when the cold method works just as well.
Well , none of my Harelys have used any oil between changes , my 07 electraglide has 90,000kms on it , it doesnt use oil or leak oil, I use motul synthetic oil and have no problems .Im not sure that Harley are going in the right direction with the newer bikes at all , I certainly would not swap my old glide for a new one , I have modified my bike a bit for more grunt and cooler running pretty much as your videos recomend and all you info has worked pretty well , keep it up guys .
Glad you are enjoying your ride, and good to hear you are enjoying the videos. 👍
It’s not just Harley’s though. I own a 23’ Honda Rebel 1100 brand new off the showroom floor. Did the break in service.
2500 miles and my dip stick is completely dry. Hoping it’s a new vehicle thing.
I hope it is too! You certainly do not want to have to worry about oil every time you are riding! Fingers crossed it just needs to be broke in. Thanks for commenting! 😎 MB
lat year i only got to put 2000 miles on my 07 wide glide with a 96 twin cam and i didnt use any oil at all.
👍
It’s been my experience that fat girls on the back cause excessive oil and gasoline use.
Bad for the shocks too.
Here's an easy way to know if you have weak piston rings, or excessive blow by.
Ok, so you change your oil n filter, n your level is right on, and your ready to go.
If your oil after, say a coupla weeks, a few hundred miles or so, looks dirty, that could be a sign of bad or weak rings. The blowby getting past the rings is getting the oil dirty. If you have good ring sealing, the oil should not start getting dirty for a few months or 2-3000 miles. It should still look clean, and that transparent honey color that we like to see.
The spark plugs won't always get oily because it igniites the fuel mixture n the combustion that takes place is "pushing down" on the piston, and also around the Piston crown past the rings. Another issue is the breather bolts on the heads. They have small holes, drill them out as big as you can. You want the engine to breathe easy. High rpms will build up pressures and cause leaks. Also the oil level is important. There has to be some air on top of the oil in the tank. Crankcase pressure is what moves the oil. Too much oil, n you'll have oil puking out the air cleaner. In the older Evo's n Shovels, too much oil would blow out the dipstick!!! If these engines sat too long, oil would collect in the crankcase, so you would think the oil level is low n you would top it off! Wrong! The engine would blow the dip stick cap three feet up, puke all over, n also puke from the crankcase breather. It would make a big f**king mess!
These are dry sump systems, not wet sumps.
They do have their own peculiarities. You have to know how the engine works. And no, they don't work like automobile engines. That's people's first mistake. They think all motors work the same. Then why do we have automobile mechanics, motorcycle mechanics, and aircraft mechanics???
Because they are Not the same!!
Great information. Thank you for posting. 👍
Love the consistent info. Keep it up.
Thanks, will do! 👍
I have a 1980 Harley f l t Shovelhead. Seems to be really hard to find information on the oiling system. Every time my Shovelhead sits for awhile I started up it puke it out and makes a mess. The motor is supposed to of had a fresh rebuild but it still has smoke coming out of the tailpipe as well. Very frustrating because the bikes looks amazing just like it did when it came from the factory. I need to find a really good video on where all the oil lines are supposed to go. It also has an enclosed chain so there is a line that goes there to oil the chain
I just did two google searches that look like they yielded good results.
With the bike you have, I would highly recommend getting a service manual. It will have the information you're looking for right now, and will have info that you will want to have down the road.
1980 flh shovelhead manual
1980 shovelhead oil flow
If I had a , $30,000 Harley-Davidson that used 3/4 of a quart every 1500 miles I would be looking for another bike
Yes, that would be the course of action many take.
I would first look and see if there was an easy fix. If not, then I might be looking for another bike...but probably not, I would want to know why it was doing it and hopefully get it fixed under warranty (a real warrant, not HD's current warranty).
But I realize I am in a different boat.
Not with the mark up the dealerships charge. You would be upside down before you even ride the bike out of the dealership.
If I had to pay a fellow 6.00 a hour I’d be out of business
My 2007 Fatboy 96 twincam engine has had synthetic engine oil all it's life. I started out replacing the oil every 5K miles, at 20K I started changing the engine oil at 3K miles, or yearly. I run Lucas 20W50 synthetic motorcycle oil year round (I live in east central Mississippi) and use a K&P cleanable oil filter. My Harley used about 3 to 4 oz. of oil between oil changes, now that I change the engine oil at 3K miles, it uses 1 to 2 oz. of engine oil. This is with 46K+ miles on the odometer. I believe most of the oil use is thru the breather system, especially when running highway speeds, 70 to 80 mph. This past week I added one of your DK Customs Oil Catch Cans to my Fatboy, so I can measure how much oil is lost thru the breathers. I also did an inspection of the hydraulic cam chain tensioners, they look new, with zero wear on the pads. Keep the informational videos coming, I watch every one you load up on UA-cam.
Good to hear your bike is running well.
We appreciate your business on the catch can, and know that you'll like seeing what was going into the engine, and know that your engine is going to like getting only clean oxygen rich air into the combustion chambers.
Glad you're enjoying the videos. 👍
Im breaking in a new 131 crate motor. I put Driven BR 15w50 break in oil in it for the dyno and 400 miles. then Spectro 20w50 V-Twin Heavy Duty conventional. Im at 800 miles now and hasnt burned a drop. Im also using the new HD 29400448 M8 2nd gen transcover that has the breather and catch can in it going to a UNI UP-102 breather filter. Head breathers are blocked off.
Awesome! Glad you have found something that works for you. This video wasn't saying all Harleys burn oil like this, but people have been told it was normal and it is not normal. I am glad you are not having this problem!!!
Thank you for commenting! MB
I have one of those 131's too. Wait till about 8500k. 1 qt will be required. 🎉
2022 Milwaukee 8 107 electraglide standard first 500 miles lost 1/2 a quart through breather down the side of the bike got 1/4 inch hose gonna re route to oil pan cover.
Wow! Have you checked to see if the oil is at the proper level? Halfway between the bottom and top marks on the dipstick? Here is a video on the subject- ua-cam.com/video/gJ0vYAitUqU/v-deo.html
Also part of the problem at times, is the way people are breaking in their engine, you have people literally running the pi** out of brand new bikes, not using common sense. I'm not saying that's always the case. but I believe people don't treat a brand new bike correctly and crying the blues when moco will not foot the bill. I worked for years for a major automotive company dealer and we use to have people trying pull crap to get warrantee claims. one time a guy had a new just a few thousand miles high end pickup and had it towed in saying the bearings were shot and was demanding engine replacement, when the working mechanic dug into it the dude had water in the engine oil. He submerged the truck 4 wheeling. Then when we busted him he said it should have been able to take it. Let's face it people are sure a lot more crazy, trying to out do someone else and leads to a whole lot of busted new Bikes and automobiles. Anyway nice video full of good Info. Thanks guys.
Engine break-in is a myth that’s been busted. Several side by side comparison’s of the same exact new motorcycle engine being “broke in” completely different. They tore down the engines, took specs and sent the oil to the lab. No noticeable difference, no matter how it’s broke in.
@@freebehindbars8654 sorry I don't buy it, not busting your chops, but just don't buy it. We all know we can make almost any side by side comparison show just about anything we want. Look at oil comparisons, and oil additive comparisons and bla bla bla.
@@davidchereneimmel8820 I understand you not buying it, I was the same, until I saw reputable people doing it. Mr. MC Garage himself, Ari Henning, did a great breakdown of the entire process. Check it out.
While engines made in the last 10-15 years are machined differently than previously (leading many to say that break-in is not important), I still follow the manual for the first 1000 miles...no full throttle, plenty of varying the throttle and gears, Never lugging (during break-in or not), etc.
Good point on folks trying to get over on a company regarding warranty.
That still does not justify HD saying that it is normal for an engine to use 1 quart every 1500 miles.
I've seen those studies...and the school of thought to ride it when new how you want to ride it later on.
I just can't bring myself to do it.
I'm still one of those guys that change the oil after the first 500 or so miles.
I've had a 128 build by Moonshine Harley Davidson in Franklin, TN and she burned a quart of oil every 4/500 miles and broke an S & S lifter. Probably because I let the oil get too low cause it was bururning so much. They rebuilt it, installed new rings and stuff and still burns that much oil???
That is unusual. Moonshine has a good reputation. I would pursue things with them. Something is awry if the oil is halfway between the top and bottom mark (see videos below) and it is burning a quart every 400 or 500 miles.
ua-cam.com/video/thzjNfl95ro/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/gJ0vYAitUqU/v-deo.html
The only time my 103 TC used oil is after 80k miles and at 110k I replaced the motor with a factory 103..
I have installed an Ultra Cool twin fan oil cooler, DK reusable oil filter, 1" DK tank lift, LeNale cylinder fan,DK ext breather
Good Deal. Thanks for sharing! Sounds like you are enjoying your ride. Good to hear you are using some of our parts. Thank you.
Wishing you many more miles of smiles on your ride! 👍😎👍 KP
Thanks for covering this slippery issue.
lol, good play. 👍
Y'all videos helped me out a few times and I want to say thank you. I REALLY appreciate the technical and opinions on stuff that's shared. It keeps my A.D.D. in check. :)
Thank you, very good to hear you are finding the videos useful.
Thanks for the comment. 👍
Just curious, I come from the automotive world as a 45 year master tech. Does Harley use low tension piston rings? in the auto world overheat it one time with them and the engine can be an oil burner.
This is what Harley says about the M8 engine-
"lightweight piston with low-tension bore-conforming rings"
I have a 2024 Street Glide and just had to add 1 full quart after 1500 miles exactly. Even had my check engine and oil light come on. After add the oil and checking the fill level, lights are off.
It is good that you checked the oil and added what was needed. I would recommend having it looked at by a mechanic or your dealer to make sure there is nothing wrong. I hope that it was just a fluke and you do not have any more problems. Congrats on your new 24 SG. Wishing you many miles of smiles! Thank you for commenting! MB
I ride a BMW R1200GS and took a 6800 mile trip. Didn’t burn a drop of oil.
Viscosity is a measurement of a fluids resistance of flow. Not a fluids thickness because their are thinner fluids with greater resistance to flow.
Yes. Agreed. Viscosity is a measure of a fluid's resistance to flow.
It describes the internal friction of a moving fluid. A fluid with large viscosity resists motion because its molecular makeup gives it a lot of internal friction.
Viscosity modifiers being damaged from too much heat can be an issue with Harleys that run too hot for their own good.
Our use of the term thicker was an avoidance of getting sidetracked down a rabbit hole. This is a huge topic for the air cooled and twin cooled Harleys.
@@DKCustomProducts I do not wish to go down a rabbit hole but to assist in learning about Lubricants . The breaking down of oil that you mention is referred to as tanning . When tanning occurs shortly after particulate will also occurs. I’ve worked with fuels an oil labs an engineers. If you sample oil hourly you will see tanning an particulate levels rise . You can see what is breaking down inside the engine by determining what metals are present. Oil is a fluid bearing surface . When it is compromised heat will also increase when that happens a catastrophic failure will occur .The more frequently the oil is changed the longer your engine will last. Flow benches can confirm this (ran those to). Oil is a slippery slope
How about fuel passing the rings and getting in the oil?
If you have enough fuel passing the rings that it would make a measurable difference in the oil level...there is a problem that needs addressing.
Do a leakdown test, as shown in the following video. If it fails, gotta fix it, then cool that engine down so it does not happen again.
ua-cam.com/video/gojpttZQjKk/v-deo.html
Below is a link to a report on why and how to cool down your Twin Cam & M8 engines.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Thank you for commenting! KP
I have a 2019 RG 107 M8 with minor mods like 465 cam, pump, plate and full Rinehart exhaust, vented dipstick. Took a trip in August last year in 90 plus degree heat from Chicago to Savannah GA and back checking oil levels every other tank fill and did NOT burn one drop of oil ! I was actually shocked as I expected to use “maybe” a half quart. Not one drop of oil burned ! I was averaging 75 miles per hour at 3000 rpm also. No sumping and no consumption. It is NOT normal to burn even a half quart in 2000 miles as my bike is living proof. Harley just don’t want to admit faults in their products. I was ready to rebuild my motor if I used any oil but I’m glad to say I have a good one.
Nice, sounds like a gun ride!
Yes, the vast majority use no perceptible amount of oil.
For those that do, the policy is ridiculous. Fortunately it is not many that see usage.
Thanks for sharing! 👍
I have a ‘21 Road Glide Limited (114) with over 16,000 miles. I ran conventional oil in it until it was at about 12,250 miles, and then switched it to 20W-50 synthetic at that point because I was taking it on a long trip (about 3000 miles). Prior to this, it would hold oil level pretty steady. I noticed that the level was going down each time I checked it during that trip, so I topped it off about halfway back from my trip. Took half a quart. No leaks that I could see. Funny thing is, it never went down after that. Oil change done when I got back (still on synthetic) and it’s been steady since. That trip was Colorado to Los Angeles and back. This past summer I rode Colorado to Virginia and back and oil level was steady, though, I had an oil change done while I was out in Virginia.
Interesting.
Glad it is running well for you now! 👍
My sporty loses oil little by little on long trips too... Never found a leak I think maybe running them long periods does it who knows 🤷
@@thedewdster A little oil usage is normal, especially on long hard runs, and more so if it is really hot, and even more so if running 20-50 in hot weather. BUT, not a quart every 1500 or even 3000 miles.
I bought my bike off the floor of a dealership and I rode it home approximately 30 miles,for her home and checked the oil and not an inkling of a drop of oil was found,I was so pissed ,called my salesman back and told him and he says,” The bike was fully serviced before I took her home,so I dropped a quart of synthetic oil in her and she drank it all up,meaning of this message? “ Don’t trust the dealership “!!!
Thanks for sharing your experience.
My 74 ironhead doesn't use that much, without valve stem seals. My 98 Softail was going through it pretty good with no smoke or fouled plugs. Found where it was going when I serviced the primary. Quart gone from the oil bag but what is this, primary is a Q overfull. New sprocket shaft seal fixed that.
Thanks for the additional information. Appreciate it!
Glad you got it resolved! 👍
I have a 18 streetbob with the stock 107 and when I do oil changes I buy the oil change kits from Harley Davidson and they don’t give me enough oil I always end up having to get one more court for some reason Harley likes the oil level right at the end of the dipstick. When it was still under warranty and I had to take it to the dealership to get oil changes I will always have to argue with them to put another half quart or sometimes full quart in my bike. It seems like Harley is run by lawyers and not people who actually ride motorcycles their companies all about covering their ass.
Thanks for the comment.
Yeah, the oil, when the engine is cold, should be halfway between the top and bottom line. I've never bought an oil change kit from HD, so have not experienced what you have.
50k miles on my Road King and it burns about 1qt between services and I usually change all three holes between 4 and 5k miles and spark plugs every service.
My buddy has a 2008 that he's put 160k on it and hasn't cracked the case open yet. Fingers crossed I'm so lucky.
Also I just had a leak down test performed on mine at 50k since I have a 4k mile trip in 2 weeks and it was only losing 5% which I was told is pretty good for the mileage it has on it.
Good deal! 👍
That is great! Yep, that is pretty good for 50K miles. 👍
On my '22 Low Rider ST, with M8 117, approx 350 miles after initial service it showed a quart low. Dealer topped it off. I figured they did not put in correct amount of oil at initial service.
1,900 miles later it now reads 1/2 quart low. ??? I don't really trust this dealer's service dept any more. This wasn't the only time I was skeptical about their service. This is my 4th Harley that I have owned. I am a Rider not a mechanic/technician 🤔.
I go to this dealer because they are only a mile from my house. Next dealer is 75 miles away.
Do you have any suggestions?
Edit: I just watched another of your videos... tech tip M8 Oil consumption from 9 months ago. May be possible that reading 1/2 quart low may be where my M8 is happy. I will keep an eye on it🤞
Yes, it sounds like that is where it is happy.
If you are not happy with your local dealership, are their any independent shops near you that have good folks work at them?
@@DKCustomProducts Not real close, about 50 miles. I've been thinking about going there next time I need service. Thanks.
@@oldogshudnobetter498 Good deal man, hope you can get it all worked out. Thanks for watching!
Good info!
Glad it was helpful! 👍
Hi guys, if my Hog used any oil it would be back in the workshop. I don't like any oil leaks or loss of any oil.
I hear you! 👍
Great job guys. From what you have said keeping your engine cool is the most important thing you can do. I plan on adding the oil filter relocation and another cooler to my 21 Tri glide. After that I plan on the fans for the heads. I have already done a few things that you have suggested. Only have had it 6 months and 3000 miles and everything fine so far but I want it to stay that way. Thanks guys for the info.
Thank you for the kind words.
We appreciate your business, and glad you are enjoying the parts.
Yep, keeping it cool is important for max power, avoiding accelerated wear, and less heat radiating out to the rider and passenger.
Glad you are enjoying your ride! 👍
Very useful information as usual. Thank you.
Thank you! 👍
I appreciate your videos. I learn something from each and every one. Thanks
Very welcome
Only a quart? That's doing good, the ones I've had have always been more than that...my Hondas don't use a drop...never had a Harley that didn't leak...one thing about my Road King as opposed to my Hondas is that the Road King demands a pre-ride inspection to make sure the fluid levels are topped off...with my Hondas, I can just put the key in & go...dare not do that with the Road King, I'll wind up burning it up...
Thanks for sharing.
That is a bummer about your Harley's.
Yeah, but what can you do? Nature of the beast...I love the look of their bikes, but I hate the company...they try to weasel out of warranty work all the time, not that I've ever had one with a warranty, I don't need a 2nd mortgage, but I know plenty who do & apparently this guy's getting the shaft too...meanwhile I just keep a spare quart & a funnel in the bags & ride on...I use my Hondas for daily riding to keep my low milage classic low milage, (1999 & just rolled over 23K, had 12.5K on it when I bought it in 2017), & use the Road King for road trips, since it's the better long haul bike...but still gotta keep those fluid levels topped off...friggin' sucks, but to change the oil pan gasket, I'd have to pull the engine & I'm not set up for that kind of major surgery & have nobody to help with it either & Hardly Everruns charges too much for me to pay them to do it...just kinda gotta hope for the best really...
@@Road_Rash that's a 22 year old bike. Newer Harleys do not burn oil like that. You're talking about a bike more than two decades old. It's a world of differences now. This one guy had a problem but that doesn't reflect the hundreds if not thousands that don't have issues at all.
Horse 💩...I know plenty of people who have bought M8s & had nothing but problems...my bike is not the only one I have experience with...I've also had a CVO Electra Glide that had a laundry list of problems that was much newer than this one, it leaked too...I sold it & decided that if I was going to own a leaky problematic bike, it would be one that didn't have a note on it...they're all capable of this crap because it's just what this company does...puts out overpriced, underquality bikes that break on a regular basis...
I have a ‘21 Low Rider S with just under 4K miles on it. I have once put a half quart in it at about 2k and just put 3/4 quart yesterday at 4K. I put a EBS on it just after 500 miles. I figured it’s coming out there but I wonder?
I seriously doubt that you have that much oil coming out the breathers. More likely that most of it is going out the exhaust (no, it won't be blue).
shovelheads dont even use that amount of oil.
True, most don't.
I’m riding from Va to Az in May… I’ll keep an out for consumption. 2018 ultra limited. Thanks for the knowledge. I have noticed a slight decrease around 5,000 miles
Glad you enjoyed the video. Have fun on your cross-country trip.
Excessive oil usage is the exception on Harley's, not the rule.
Mary and I rode all the way to the Arctic Circle and back, around 11,500 miles. I did have two oil changes during that trip, but no more than 2-3 ounces of oil usage between oil changes.
To be honest most manufacturers print some sort of oil consumption paper to Tech's, I worked for Jaguar back in the 90's and they said a quart every 700 miles even though it never burned any after 3000 miles.
Yes, we have learned that since putting out this video. Crazy that they do not want to fix the few that have a problem that makes for such high consumption.
@@DKCustomProducts my guess there is a problem with the rings or possibly valve seals but I would lean towards a problem with the oil control rings, yes they should stand behind the product and fix the problem due to the price they charge of these new bikes.
I have an external breather on my trike, but 1 quart every 1500mls would have a carbon build up issue very quickly. What is your opinion on running fuel additives like fuel injector cleaner and so on every 10,000 miles or so to reduce carbon piston build up
With an External Breather System you should have little, or no, carbon build up on your pistons.
I always keep a bottle of Sea Foam with me. If I get a bad tank of gas I dump it in and it helps. It will help the injectors and will dissolve carbon deposits also.
I have a 2024 Road King Special and I ran out west to Rapid City about 820 miles and i used 1 quart of oil and when I left my bike had 2,800 miles on it I'm pissed
I would recommend doing a leak-down test. It will show if the rings or valve seats are a problem, and if they are, then you are under warranty and should be able to get it repaired under warranty.
Here is a video on a leak-down test-
ua-cam.com/video/gojpttZQjKk/v-deo.html
What I have done in the past is tell the dealership that I will pay for the test if it passes, but if it does not pass, and they have to do warranty work on it, then they pay for the leak down test....OR, you can do it yourself, and if it does not look good then you can take it in to them knowing that they have to do some work on it under warranty for you.
Yeah, it sucks...HD has been having some trouble with out of round cylinders, also with rings installed wrong on the production line.
KP
2016 streetglide only use amsoil 20-50 full synthetic ,67000 miles now 6000 between oil change doesnt use a drop Vegas to Pueblo 920 miles 12hrs 15 min door to door 96 degrees out never missed a beat
Nice! Thanks for the comment. Average of 75mph, including gas stops. You were kicking it! 👍
TC 88 EFI, hardly uses any oil between changes
That is great! Not all bikes burn oil, but some of them do. Thank you for commenting! MB
My twin cam is solid . I carry extra oil on the m8 now ..seems weird.
Yeah, they have had some cylinder and ring issues with some M8's.
Good points. Thank you for the vid
Thanks for watching!
I have a 16 103 and I don't use enough to add between oil changes. Just FYI
Good deal! 👍
I have a brand new low rider st and I was looking for a video about that, and I order some oil the bike burn a quart after 1000 km
I hope you found the video informative! Thanks for watching
@@DKCustomProducts yes very informative,thank you very much,very well done the video
@@franklinbittner4683 Good deal man, you're welcome!
What about transmission oil? Do newer Harleys burn transmission oil as much?
There were a few years that some M8's had a oil transfer from the transmission to the primary problem. That was solved with a vent. See video below. Other than that, HD transmissions do not burn/use oil.
ua-cam.com/video/B_EhFFKvHEM/v-deo.html
I have a 20 sgs with 9000 I don’t burn any maybe a oz maybe I broke in properly and she runs great I think proper break in has a lot todo with this problem
Yes, a lot of folks have noted that break in has to do with it. Just as many have broken it in per the manual and still have more than the average amount of oil consumption.
Glad yours is treating you well. 👍
@@DKCustomProducts I know it’s a roll if the Dice of what you get
@@capecodbiker9902 Fortunately it is a small % of folks that get a new bike with high oil consumption.
When purchasing a used bike, it is very important to do a leak-down test first to make sure it is not overly worn or has poorly machined cylinders from the factory.
My 2019 Street Glide has 4900 miles on it I just did a 3 hole oil change with Amsoil but it hasn't used any oil nor has it had the blow by issues I've heard about. I did the Trask crank case vent and Harley also vented the trans under warranty to prevent oil transfer. I feel like this may be a riding style issue as well. If you ride your Harley like its a crotch rocket you may cause your bike to use oil.
Thanks for sharing, that is great. Yes, riding hard will accentuate a problem (if there is a problem) and use more oil.
@@DKCustomProducts 1 Quart of oil consumption over 1500 miles is not acceptable in any engine.
@@vintagetrk I agree with you 100%.
I have a 2016 triglide what should my oil pressure be at 80 miles a hour and idling bike has 10.000 miles on it
There are a lot of variables...is the engine fully warmed up, ambient temp, what weight oil, etc. But HD says, when oil is at 230F, at idle it should be 5 PSI, and at cruising RPM it should be 30-38 PSI.
Im at the bottom of the HD learning curve but Im fairly logical when it comes to quality and cheap parts...So heres my take on this and several other things Im seeing and reading about HD The Company, HD need to walk the damn walk, they promote American made and are selling weak parts and hiding engineering issues, Man up HD!!! Great video guys, easy to understand and straight to the point!!
HD is strapped by EPA not much they can do for a lot of their issues!
Glad you are finding the videos helpful!
Thanks for commenting! 😎
Maybe what Harley means is, said Oil goes thru the intake, or blow-by. You pretty well can eliminate both situations with second party upgrades.
Some bikes just have bad ring seal and use a lot of oil. Fortunately it is a small %.
Thanks for posting already man here but love all bikes my cousin I ride together he has newest Honda he laughed at some of these all consumptions
Good to hear we gave a Honda rider a laugh! 😀
And Lastly ... the synthetic oil isn't doing anyone any favors UNLESS the viscosity is way up there and I NEVER run it in the primary ( causes slight clutch slippage on a stock bike and that builds heat ) the M8 only needs about 4.4 quarts of oil in the motor to be really happy ...
The earlier M8s are more susceptible to these issues as there were oiling issues and scavenging issues and Valve seat issues ( see Tmans Valve Seat videos... funny and informative ) most of which were taken care of in 2020... I suspect that much like of the twin-cam in 2016 Harley-Davidson will perfect the milwaukee-eight and right at the Pinnacle of its success replace it with something else just like the 2016 2017 twin cams LOL LOL
Thank you for your comments. Greatly appreciated.
Do you think they will go 15 or so years with the M8? Or will the electric/watercooled push them to go faster on the next evolution?
3000 mile trip. I had installed breather bypass but no catch can yet and had oil all down side of my bike and all over my pants. T
Pre bypass that oil would have been gone straight into my throttle body.
By a breather bypass, are you saying an External Breather System? If so, where is your hose routed to that you are getting oil on the bike and your pants?
Here's a video entitled- Why is there oil down the side of my bike? You may find it useful- ua-cam.com/video/gJ0vYAitUqU/v-deo.html
And here is a video that you may also find interesting- ua-cam.com/video/EfDeFZblMck/v-deo.html
My 2021 doesn't seem to use any oil. My buddy has a 2022 that uses 2-3 quarts between oil changes. He rides it like a pissed off teenager. Most of his rides are 20 miles to the next tavern at 90 miles per hour. He just bitches that his bike is junk. I honestly would suspect the ventilation breathers into the air cleaner first. He won't investigate it.
Burning that much oil there could be a problem, but you can't make him look into it. Thanks for commenting! 😎 MB
30,000 miles so far on my 2011 ultra 96 and have used nothing that I can see on the dipstick. Change the oil every 5k. Have never had to add any anywhere.
Yes, this is the experience that most of us have. Good to hear. 👍
Does the weight and operational climate factored in? I personally use sae 60w from harley the m8 sounds quieter than with syn3
60 weight oil will not get as thin as Syn3, so the likelihood of consumption being less with it is high.
The more of these videos i watch i just love my 02 twincam more and more haha. 75k miles, 40k on 95kit, cams etc. Ive never had to add a drop of oule between oil changes. Sure it doesnt make m8 power but being lighter then the newer ones and me only weighing 135 pounds it keeps up with the newer ones just fine.
It is great that you have a bike that you enjoy riding! Wishing you many miles of smiles on the open road!!!! Thank you for commenting! MB
It's not a service bulletin....it's a Tech Tip(TT)...
Thank you, you are correct, we were wrong.
I have a 1997 road king with an 80 Evo. I burn through 1 quart of oil every 800 miles.
It occasionally blows grey smoke out of the exhaust, I have no idea why.
Sounds like the top end is getting a bit tired and needs to be freshened up.
@@DKCustomProducts
I’m sure you are correct. I have 60,000 miles on it, I can’t complain too much about getting 60,000 miles on the original engine with no work done to it whatsoever.
When it comes time to rebuild it, I think I’m going to get rid of the Marelli fuel injection system.
It actually is operating fine, I haven’t had any major issues with it, but if I’m going through the trouble of getting the engine done, I’ll probably take it to a carburetor to avoid any hassles in the future.
Thanks for the reply.
@%F0%9F%91%8DUC5t35kmdhw7B7fIwwymDp-w Sounds like a good plan. Enjoy your ride! It is going to sound a bit better with a carb also.
It could be that when manufactured, a set of rings of the wrong size (i.e. -0.020, -0.030, -0.040 under the bore diameter were installed. This would result in a ring end gap that after the break in period (ring seat) is nearly or actually at the threshold value of actual replacement. Production lines don't usually cease when a mistake like that is discovered if only a few builds or a certain amount of manufacturer specified builds has not been exceeded. You can almost bet that something of that nature has taken place in the production environment.
Something of this nature can also occur from supply line disruptions or shortages. It may be simple ring substitutions that would limit damage to the engine while allowing a working model to continue to be produced. With excessive heat build up that always leads to metallic expansion, allowable ring end gap can be the difference between an engine that burns a little oil, and a catastrophic, possibly fatal event.
Yes, there have been more than a few M8's with the wrong size rings or with poor quality rings, and one more common problem...
The ring gaps not staggered, but all aligned. Finally, there has been a problem with OEM cylinders being out of round or of poor quality.
I am wondering if I have an abnormal problem with my bike. It has 173 thou miles and does not consume any oil between changes. It's a GOLD WING.
😂
I have a 2020 RGS 114 M8 with 20000 miles. After the the 20k service the motor started using a quart of oil every 320 miles. What is going on?
That is strange, was anything else done to the engine at that point besides a fluid change?
First thing I would do, or have done, is a leakdown test. You will probably find that one, or both cylinders, are in poor condition.
Here's a video on a leakdown test- ua-cam.com/video/gojpttZQjKk/v-deo.html
I thought mine was burning oil until I popped off the clutch cover and oil came spilling out. Found that the main crank seal leaked into the primary.
Wow!
That does happen, not often, but we have seen it a few times.
Glad you got it resolved. 👍
Guy I work with has a newer Dyna that uses oil and no matter what upgrades he does still death wobbles…. I’ll keep my Honda
Last year Harley made a Dyna was in 2017, so the newest Dyna is 5 years old.
Still not good to use a lot of oil. Death wobble is a matter of a worn part or something misaligned.
My Honda is 20 years old no oil use and no problems… Harleys are good looking and sound good but that’s it…
TT461 Service Bulletin Number. For reference.
Thanks! 👍
My 2014 Yamaha Raider with 30 thousand miles on doesn’t use a drop between old changes
Cool. Same as the majority of Harley's.
Of course some Yammys have a high oil consumption also.
That explains it. I have an M8 114 with Stage 2 (475 cam). I’ve done the breather blow by mod which keeps it out of my intake but I still get some oil out of the filter pod used for that mod. It’s not as bad as it was before the breather mod but it’s still present. That said I just added a quart (after riding about 2700 miles) and barely got on the dipstick. This is my first HD and I’m not used a bike that burns that much oil. At this rate, I won’t have to pay for an oil change (joking).
I hope you can remedy our bike burning that much oil! I am glad you found the video informative! Thanks for watching!
If I have to add a quart every 1500 miles, no need to ever do a full oil change. Just change the filter every 5000 miles. 2002flhrci, original owner, 80K miles, I might add maybe a 1/2 quart every 5000 miles just to keep level at the 'full' mark. Could easily not bother adding any oil between 5,000 mile oil changes.
Good to hear you're enjoying your ride and have are in the majority of folks that have no oil consumption issue. 👍
Having leaking ball checks in the oil pump can allow the reservoir of oil to leak back into the crank case over a period of time.
Yes, true that. Thank you. 👍
I’ve never owned a new Harley, two old Sportsters (93&94) and an 01 Heritage and have a 93 Heritage now (Evo) none of them ever used oil.
Yes, your experience is very much the same as mine and the majority of HD owners. Excessive oil usage is the exception, not the rule.
In Harley Speak those are not Technical Service Bulletins .... Those are internal Tech Tips ( TT) meant for Diagnosing Technicians and service writers ... from my years in Harley Davidson Service departments the number 1 reason why TRUE oil consumption IS..............the way the customer broke in the Motorcycle in ....
The easiest way to instantly be 1/2 to 3/4 quart low with an M8 is to start the bike on the Jiffy stand.... the design of the OE pump causes about that amount of oil to be pumped into the bellies and not given time to scavenge out . Being on the inside I followed Every tiny detail of the break in procedure and I have Zero smoke on start up .... use about 2 oz or so between oil changes . I follow the temp chart religiously ... I follow the service procedures religiously ... I also use everything available to cool it down using your products with great success... and one last thought ...ITS NOT PARADE MODE FOLKS LOL ... Engine Idle Temp Management is meant Soley for rider and passenger comfort ... Harley Expressly states that the feature is not meant to be an Engine saver in heat ... just for brief periods of stoppage where ones foot and inner thigh may get toasty ...lol
Thanks for the open forum Kevin ... love all you cats do!
Hey Paul,
Thanks for the comment/information.
Yeah, we messed up and called it a bulletin when it is clearly labeled as a Tech Tip. 😬
Question for you (and maybe a video we can do in a couple of months), what is the best way to break in a Harley M8?
Also, thank you for reminding me about the kickstand on an M8. Does this also apply to the newest M8 oil pump? Dwayne and I need to do a video on this.
We do appreciate your business, and are happy you are experiencing great success with them.
Yeah, EITMS is for comfort, not for actually cooling the engine any significant amount. We are in the middle of a video test on that subject.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since we keep getting bigger jugs isn't there a greater propensity to use more oil???
To a very small degree that is correct. But if everything is machined correctly and there is a good External Breather System, any bit of extra pressure from slightly larger pistons should still vent easily.
Wow really. I have an old 78 ironhead an it doesn’t use an oil . My 2019 ultra limited has 21.000 miles on an the only time I have to add oil is when I do my service at 5000.miles if it’s using oil majority of times it’s coming past the rings . Or excessive oil going through the breather to the intake . Nuff said.
Good to hear your bikes are using minimal oil. You may find this video interesting regarding oil into the intake-
ua-cam.com/video/EfDeFZblMck/v-deo.html
I run the Harley 20-50 full synthetic oil, in the engine. I have owned a 2020, 107-inch, Electa Glide standard and if I ran 75 mph-80 mph steady for 80 miles the 107 engine would use 2 ounces of oil but no oil was used if I ran steady at 70 mph all day long. On my 2019 Road, 114 the same thing. Bumped my 114 inch up to 128 inches and run the Fueling oil pump and backing plate and if I run steadily at 70 mph no oil is used but the engine uses 2 ounces of oil if I run steadily at 75 -80 mph for 80 miles. I installed your vented head breathers on all of these bikes, and also run a Fuel vented dipstick. I also run my engine a quart low as recommended by the top engine builders.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
We appreciate your business, and I'm sure your bike likes having only clean oxygen rich air going into it.
That is a lot of oil...2 ounces for 80 miles.
@@DKCustomProducts ----> I meant to say 1 ounce, not 2. My 106, 114 and 128 engine was broken on properly also.
@@amphibdriver1 1 ounce for 80 miles is still a lot more that it should be. That is 1 quart every 2560 miles.
@@DKCustomProducts ---> That is only when I ride at steady speeds of 75-80 mph for at least one hour. If I ride at a steady speed of 70 mph my 107-inch engine, my 114 engine, and then my built 128 engine doesn't use any oil at all. My 114-inch engine and then did a 128-inch build on it has water-cooled heads. But all of them use no less than one ounce of oil if I ride for an hour at 75-80 mph.
That’s absolutely insane! I’m irritated my Subaru burns a quart every 3,000-4,000!
It really is crazy! Burning that much oil does not seem normal but we do not have any experience with Subaru unfortunately.
Thank you for commenting! MB
Tried breather ,top end rebuild,different oil,eventually got a re bore and fitted an oil cooler,bingo doesn’t use any oil.
Sorry you had to go thru that. Not a lot have the problem, but many that do are from poor machining of the cylinders. Glad you got it resolved. 👍