Great talk gentlemen, hoping to get a chronograph soon to help with data for my rifles to extend my ethical range. Right now I don't push it much more than 200yds. Have a great holiday season, all I want for Christmas is a .35 Rem 10 min talk!!!
🤔 … I love this channel and the podcasts and have followed for a long time and have enjoyed all the guests, info and 300 WSM talk 😂. Buuuuuuut, after years of trying different apps online and on the phone I feel that G1 and G7 is like thinking the world is flat compared to the 4Dof system. Bryan Litz’s applied ballistics comes close but Hornady has something special going on. I don’t use many of their bullets but the app is 🔥. Just one man’s opinion. Keep’m come’n. 🤜🏼🤛🏼
Remembering to adjust your environmentals for where you will be hunting can be pivotal. I live at 600 ft elevation, hunting out west have to adjust for elevation temp, etc....
Using Strelok Pro The rife info of barrel length, twist rate, Ammo info off box, Scope Manufacture name, radical type and if you want temp and altitude. What a app does to save ammo use is you select range say most to zero is 25 yards if at an indoor range or 100 yds at an outdoor is the yards on the hash marks and aim hash to hit point. At a range of 25 it will be a lower hash than center hash but will be zero at 100 or even 200. Also if out there in the field and you get a 50 or 30 shot you will know hit hash for that closer shot. The point is you pick a box of ammo input info as well as rifle info and looking at scope reticle marks the yards for each and no need to adjust scope setting you print out a tape to stock. So no touch to scope you can aim out to 600 on just the radical even a second focal plane. Years ago Nikon spot on was the key to use. Ever try to see the difference in a .35 Whelen 180g, 200g, 225g, 250g when mostly 225 or 250 can be found using a SFP scope then find 180g like your 30 06 ammo and less kick. The Ballistic app will show you need to be zoomed in all the way on a SFP to get a hit at the hash marks for info to work. A ballistic app saves time and money on a zeroing if you have a radical image with hashmark info that is the key not having to mess with the turret knowing point of impact.
Good talk. Shot a buck over 300yds this year in SD. Farthest shot I ever took . 6.5 Swede, 140gr ELD'S, vortex iron peak 4-12x44, I used the 3rd dead hold bdc line, 🤷 I know it's not exactly 300 but that's what i call it, a little Kentucky windage and dropped him dead in his tracks! My 12 year old son was with, he was pretty excited
I agree with most all that was said but still want to comment: I strongly recommend that hunters practice some long range shooting in the field. Don't just own the equipment but learn how to use it well. I know of guys that have taken shots at distances they had no business taking. Some of those shots resulted in clean misses, and some shots resulted in a wounded animal that is not recovered and ends up dying a slow agonizing death over the next week. Just because you have a ballistics calculator app on your iPhone does not mean that you need to be taking 750 yard shots. I have a good range finder, ballistics calculator app, and good optics, and I have reloaded ammo for a long time but, I still do not like taking shots past 400-450 yards. Just my opinion.
I know you guys partner with Hornady their 4dof program seems to be more "accurate" than traditional ballistic calculators based on bc might be worth a guest podcast with them.
I love how he described how he useot shoot before he learned how to diel....sight in 2 inches high at 100 (which is normally about a 200yard zero and then hold for hair at 300.....thats what I do and that's where I'm at I just wish there was a class around me so I could learn to stop using linier measurements and switch my thinking to moa or m rad ......I'm trying to do a elk and a mule deer and pronghorn hunt in the next 10 years and your like to be effective in the 400-500yard range but I know with my skill now that's not gunna happen with out learning more
What apps do you guys recommend I sure don't mind paying for one either. I used to use a love Strelok pro but the last year their data became so sporadic I'd have better luck lobbing a rock at the target. I currently use Hornaday which I don't mind but would prefer another one where I can put my exact scope in etc. I'd sure appreciate your guys input and what other Vortex nation guys are using!
Hi there; I have bought a Beileshi 3-9×40 EG rifle scope and don't know which magnifications will give a correct range to a target. The manual is not informative as far as reticle in range finding. I would appreciate if you could help me to set the magnification that lend me the correct Range to Target. Thank you for your time!
With all these things like Kestrel with Applied Balistics DOPE is now Data On Preliminary Engagement; After zeroed..... And then you have to out to a distance where sience and art meet.
It is crazy scary how fast sickness travels!! It seems like everyone's voice is so scratchy and broken across UA-cam. Check it out. You can track this where it's going and how fast. It's insanity! O yes don't forget pressure for the day and altitude if your in a different environment and different temperature.
With quality ammo that shoots good out of your gun. After that, making sure you have enough adjustment within the optic to reach out further and also a day with no wind. 😀😀
Degrees, Minutes and Seconds Package accuracy is the square root of the platform Accuracy plus the square root of the ammunition Accuracy, plus the square root of the operator Accuracy. Beware the inaccuracies in Loading Manuals which can seriously Contradict reality so much on the low side, they can be dangerous, and reality needs to be used to check ballistic calculators. Make a Chronograoh you best and most Trusted Friend. Example of horribly wrong loading data. A Remington BDL in .222 Remington. a 50 grain bullet, starting at minimum load, every shot on target got there sideways, gradually upped the load to max load which should have been just over 2800fps ish from memory with that powder, and the bullets were still not stabilising. I wasted a hellmof a lot of bullets, different types of primers, and not a huge amount of powder thanks to the case size, plus a lot of time de priming cleaning and resizing Brass. So I asked the late great Dan Hackett on the Compuserve Forum for advice. He said get a Chronograph, or you're flying I'm the dark. So I did. Turned out max load per that reloading Manual was only delivering under 1500 fps muzzle velocity. withbthe 14:1 twist barrel, not a hope in hell of stabilising bullets. Could have resulted in flashover detonation ignition too, but low case volume probably helped avoid that too. Thanks to that Chrinograph I ended up with a different powder giving 3,006 fps +/- 3fps with Speer TNT 50 grain bullets, and a terrific long range fox round. So take everything you read and hear with a bucket of Salt, get a Chronograph to check everything, watch those cases for pressure signs and you should have a good foundation to start developing that Operator Marksmanship. We all need more People like Dan Hacket, a good friend ever willing to help anyone eager to learn, and a sorely missed truly great guy. RIP Dan. 🙏
Little word of advice never go by the box ever absolutely ever , always chronograph your load before you even think about a ballistic chart, see what your particular round is doing never go by the box of a factory load or any load hand load ect always chronograph before you build a drop chart
No, mpbr is the distance at which the bullet never rises above or drops below the effective kill zone. For deer that is 3 inches. So a rifle sighted in to have a maximum bullet height of +3 inches will reach mpbr when the bullet falls to -3 inches. So for most modern non magnum cartridges, a rifle sighted in at +2" to +2.5" at 100yds will top out at around +3" between 150 to 200 yds and will fall to -3" around 300 to 400 yds. Depending upon muzzle velocity and BC. For elk you could go to + and - 4" however there is another factor to consider and that is terminal performance. The bullet manufacturer has determined that their bullet has optimum expansion above a certain velocity. For many the threshold is 2000 fps impact velocity. So at whatever distance your bullet falls below 2000 fps is your mpbr for terminal performance for example. Much reaserch has been done to reduce the terminal impact velocity of hunting bullets. You must check with the manufacturer to verify that you are using their products correctly. If you don't, the fault is yours not theirs.
@@docb1844 to leave room for error. It's like in archery your affective range is that distance in which you can put all of your arrows into a paper plate. It is the same concept.
The balistic app's are great but just like the introduction of the calculators in school made kids lazy and dependent on technology to do even simple math. The ballistic calculator and app's are making shooters dependent upon technology. In a SHTF situation good old Kentucky windage and elevation will save the day!
I'm a ballistics calculations nerd from decades ago, yet I still continue to practice old school DOPEing, reading wind, and so on to maintain those skills to maintain one's own effective range when the batteries die and such. Now days when the power goes out the store cashiers refuse to sell anything because they no longer know how to count change without the computer telling them how much the change is, nor how to calculate 10% tax. The SR71 Blackbird was the last aeroplane designed and engineered with a slide rule.
@@Oldhogleg I'm not a long range shooter. My longest shot to date is 500 yards and I got the deer although it did require tracking and a finishing shot. My most difficult shot was 250+/- yards in a 10 mph full value crosswind with my 308. I knew in advance that I would have that wind and that range shot. I did the math the night before and determined with my load I would need an 8" hold into the wind. I was successful but I probably could not have done that spur of the moment. I love the fact that you long range shooters can hit targets a mile or more away. Great!!! I want you on my side when SHTF, however I want to be confident that you can still do it WHEN the batteries die and the web goes DOWN. Because it WILL. I can provide us meat, and short range interdiction, I will be depending on you for long range protection!
@@bryanshull372 Lol, neither am I a mile shooter, there's no place near by my residence where such distances exist to practice, recreation, or compete at. I'm a firm believer in the ¼ mile rifleman concept as promoted and taught by the Apple Seed Project, whether Iron sights, or optics. I used to compete on a regular basis in the CMP high power rifle matches decades ago, typically on ranges of only 200 yards, but is normally shot up to 600 yards, with iron sights.
You know it’s a good 10 minute talk when it’s 27 minutes
Exactly what i thought when reading the title ! 😎
This comment was too funny 🤣
Good to see Ryan back at the table - looking forward to your next cartridge talk with him.
Great talk gentlemen, hoping to get a chronograph soon to help with data for my rifles to extend my ethical range. Right now I don't push it much more than 200yds. Have a great holiday season, all I want for Christmas is a .35 Rem 10 min talk!!!
Thank you for making a dry subject more interesting.
🤔 … I love this channel and the podcasts and have followed for a long time and have enjoyed all the guests, info and 300 WSM talk 😂. Buuuuuuut, after years of trying different apps online and on the phone I feel that G1 and G7 is like thinking the world is flat compared to the 4Dof system. Bryan Litz’s applied ballistics comes close but Hornady has something special going on. I don’t use many of their bullets but the app is 🔥. Just one man’s opinion. Keep’m come’n. 🤜🏼🤛🏼
Remembering to adjust your environmentals for where you will be hunting can be pivotal. I live at 600 ft elevation, hunting out west have to adjust for elevation temp, etc....
It seems to me that it is more important to have a range finder first. Then start using a ballistic app or device.
At the risk of also stating the obvious, they mention rangefinders several times during the talk.
@@phild9813 Thank you, Mr. Obvious, I assume you have a rangefinder and use a ballistic app or device.
Lol
Could you guys put a link for the balllistic calculator
Using Strelok Pro The rife info of barrel length, twist rate, Ammo info off box, Scope Manufacture name, radical type and if you want temp and altitude. What a app does to save ammo use is you select range say most to zero is 25 yards if at an indoor range or 100 yds at an outdoor is the yards on the hash marks and aim hash to hit point. At a range of 25 it will be a lower hash than center hash but will be zero at 100 or even 200. Also if out there in the field and you get a 50 or 30 shot you will know hit hash for that closer shot. The point is you pick a box of ammo input info as well as rifle info and looking at scope reticle marks the yards for each and no need to adjust scope setting you print out a tape to stock. So no touch to scope you can aim out to 600 on just the radical even a second focal plane. Years ago Nikon spot on was the key to use. Ever try to see the difference in a .35 Whelen 180g, 200g, 225g, 250g when mostly 225 or 250 can be found using a SFP scope then find 180g like your 30 06 ammo and less kick. The Ballistic app will show you need to be zoomed in all the way on a SFP to get a hit at the hash marks for info to work. A ballistic app saves time and money on a zeroing if you have a radical image with hashmark info that is the key not having to mess with the turret knowing point of impact.
What’s the old trusty app that you have been using since 2012 ? 👀
Good talk. Shot a buck over 300yds this year in SD. Farthest shot I ever took . 6.5 Swede, 140gr ELD'S, vortex iron peak 4-12x44, I used the 3rd dead hold bdc line, 🤷 I know it's not exactly 300 but that's what i call it, a little Kentucky windage and dropped him dead in his tracks! My 12 year old son was with, he was pretty excited
Try it at 1700 yards
I agree with most all that was said but still want to comment: I strongly recommend that hunters practice some long range shooting in the field. Don't just own the equipment but learn how to use it well. I know of guys that have taken shots at distances they had no business taking. Some of those shots resulted in clean misses, and some shots resulted in a wounded animal that is not recovered and ends up dying a slow agonizing death over the next week. Just because you have a ballistics calculator app on your iPhone does not mean that you need to be taking 750 yard shots. I have a good range finder, ballistics calculator app, and good optics, and I have reloaded ammo for a long time but, I still do not like taking shots past 400-450 yards. Just my opinion.
I agree, the energy is going to be lost past 700 yards if you’re not using the right bullet or cartridge
I know you guys partner with Hornady their 4dof program seems to be more "accurate" than traditional ballistic calculators based on bc might be worth a guest podcast with them.
I don’t exactly understand what Hornady 4dof is in the app vs the other calculator in the app 😢😢😢. What’s the difference???
@@docb1844 the Hornady podcast has a really good explanation it just came out last week
Would love a cartridge talk on the 277 fury and similar products!
Let’s see a 10 minute talk about 8.6 blackout
I love how he described how he useot shoot before he learned how to diel....sight in 2 inches high at 100 (which is normally about a 200yard zero and then hold for hair at 300.....thats what I do and that's where I'm at I just wish there was a class around me so I could learn to stop using linier measurements and switch my thinking to moa or m rad ......I'm trying to do a elk and a mule deer and pronghorn hunt in the next 10 years and your like to be effective in the 400-500yard range but I know with my skill now that's not gunna happen with out learning more
Great Infor!
What apps do you guys recommend I sure don't mind paying for one either. I used to use a love Strelok pro but the last year their data became so sporadic I'd have better luck lobbing a rock at the target. I currently use Hornaday which I don't mind but would prefer another one where I can put my exact scope in etc. I'd sure appreciate your guys input and what other Vortex nation guys are using!
Calcs out for the lads.
Hi there;
I have bought a Beileshi 3-9×40 EG rifle scope and don't know which magnifications will give a correct range to a target.
The manual is not informative as far as reticle in range finding.
I would appreciate if you could help me to set the magnification that lend me the correct Range to Target.
Thank you for your time!
With all these things like Kestrel with Applied Balistics DOPE is now Data On Preliminary Engagement; After zeroed..... And then you have to out to a distance where sience and art meet.
Longest 10 minutes in the History of man kind
We need this to be 10 hours
It is crazy scary how fast sickness travels!! It seems like everyone's voice is so scratchy and broken across UA-cam. Check it out. You can track this where it's going and how fast. It's insanity! O yes don't forget pressure for the day and altitude if your in a different environment and different temperature.
17:48 you found a discrepancy in BC, not muzzle velocity.
Alternatively DOPE can mean Data On Personal Equipment.
Should do 10 minutes on 458 socom
What about Rimfire where do you start
With quality ammo that shoots good out of your gun. After that, making sure you have enough adjustment within the optic to reach out further and also a day with no wind. 😀😀
Degrees, Minutes and Seconds Package accuracy is the square root of the platform Accuracy plus the square root of the ammunition Accuracy, plus the square root of the operator Accuracy. Beware the inaccuracies in Loading Manuals which can seriously Contradict reality so much on the low side, they can be dangerous, and reality needs to be used to check ballistic calculators. Make a Chronograoh you best and most Trusted Friend. Example of horribly wrong loading data. A Remington BDL in .222 Remington. a 50 grain bullet, starting at minimum load, every shot on target got there sideways, gradually upped the load to max load which should have been just over 2800fps ish from memory with that powder, and the bullets were still not stabilising. I wasted a hellmof a lot of bullets, different types of primers, and not a huge amount of powder thanks to the case size, plus a lot of time de priming cleaning and resizing Brass. So I asked the late great Dan Hackett on the Compuserve Forum for advice. He said get a Chronograph, or you're flying I'm the dark. So I did. Turned out max load per that reloading Manual was only delivering under 1500 fps muzzle velocity. withbthe 14:1 twist barrel, not a hope in hell of stabilising bullets. Could have resulted in flashover detonation ignition too, but low case volume probably helped avoid that too. Thanks to that Chrinograph I ended up with a different powder giving 3,006 fps +/- 3fps with Speer TNT 50 grain bullets, and a terrific long range fox round. So take everything you read and hear with a bucket of Salt, get a Chronograph to check everything, watch those cases for pressure signs and you should have a good foundation to start developing that Operator Marksmanship. We all need more People like Dan Hacket, a good friend ever willing to help anyone eager to learn, and a sorely missed truly great guy. RIP Dan. 🙏
Little word of advice never go by the box ever absolutely ever , always chronograph your load before you even think about a ballistic chart, see what your particular round is doing never go by the box of a factory load or any load hand load ect always chronograph before you build a drop chart
To make it all happen, one needs a very good Range Finder and double check the distance of game. Just saying
Please do 30 RAR!
338 federal!!! Next 10 min talk is it just the ugly cousin of the 8.6??? Who knows??
Where is Jim?
Jim here - Still around, but I've had another project cooking over at Vortex Edge. Stay tuned!
I need some teachin
👍🏾
Isn't "max distance" the max point blank distance?
No, mpbr is the distance at which the bullet never rises above or drops below the effective kill zone. For deer that is 3 inches. So a rifle sighted in to have a maximum bullet height of +3 inches will reach mpbr when the bullet falls to -3 inches. So for most modern non magnum cartridges, a rifle sighted in at +2" to +2.5" at 100yds will top out at around +3" between 150 to 200 yds and will fall to -3" around 300 to 400 yds. Depending upon muzzle velocity and BC. For elk you could go to + and - 4" however there is another factor to consider and that is terminal performance. The bullet manufacturer has determined that their bullet has optimum expansion above a certain velocity. For many the threshold is 2000 fps impact velocity. So at whatever distance your bullet falls below 2000 fps is your mpbr for terminal performance for example. Much reaserch has been done to reduce the terminal impact velocity of hunting bullets. You must check with the manufacturer to verify that you are using their products correctly. If you don't, the fault is yours not theirs.
@@bryanshull372 why is deer +\-3 instead of +\-4?? I thought their vital area was 8 inches diameter circle? Is it really 6?
@@docb1844 to leave room for error. It's like in archery your affective range is that distance in which you can put all of your arrows into a paper plate. It is the same concept.
How do you get the BC of a 8.6 round when the manufacturer wont give it to you? Gorilla
RIP cartridge talks
Christmas is coming :)
You guys talk and talk and have said nothing other than A BC is important. No other useful information given.
Nerd, all the useful info you need is put right in front of you in the app itself. Get better
The balistic app's are great but just like the introduction of the calculators in school made kids lazy and dependent on technology to do even simple math. The ballistic calculator and app's are making shooters dependent upon technology. In a SHTF situation good old Kentucky windage and elevation will save the day!
I'm a ballistics calculations nerd from decades ago, yet I still continue to practice old school DOPEing, reading wind, and so on to maintain those skills to maintain one's own effective range when the batteries die and such.
Now days when the power goes out the store cashiers refuse to sell anything because they no longer know how to count change without the computer telling them how much the change is, nor how to calculate 10% tax.
The SR71 Blackbird was the last aeroplane designed and engineered with a slide rule.
@@Oldhogleg I'm not a long range shooter. My longest shot to date is 500 yards and I got the deer although it did require tracking and a finishing shot. My most difficult shot was 250+/- yards in a 10 mph full value crosswind with my 308. I knew in advance that I would have that wind and that range shot. I did the math the night before and determined with my load I would need an 8" hold into the wind. I was successful but I probably could not have done that spur of the moment. I love the fact that you long range shooters can hit targets a mile or more away. Great!!! I want you on my side when SHTF, however I want to be confident that you can still do it WHEN the batteries die and the web goes DOWN. Because it WILL. I can provide us meat, and short range interdiction, I will be depending on you for long range protection!
@@bryanshull372 Lol, neither am I a mile shooter, there's no place near by my residence where such distances exist to practice, recreation, or compete at. I'm a firm believer in the ¼ mile rifleman concept as promoted and taught by the Apple Seed Project, whether Iron sights, or optics.
I used to compete on a regular basis in the CMP high power rifle matches decades ago, typically on ranges of only 200 yards, but is normally shot up to 600 yards, with iron sights.