The Controversial Ending of Return to Monkey Island
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- The ending to the new game, "Return to Monkey Island" has been met with mixed feelings. In this spoiler-filled short video, I jot down my thoughts on the ending and what I think the Monkey Island games are really about.
Still feels like a cop-out. When the meta narrative re-inforces that you're playing a story within a story that isn't real, or even concludes, all of that leads to awarding all confidence to the author's intent.
Shockingly, pulling the rug out from under players to remind them that it's not real and there's no ending, "Hope you had a good trip, though!" is used in plenty of stories, playwrites, games and film. Characters break the fourth wall, casting glances at the camera to deliver a line, an opening prologue to tell the audience what the hell they're in for. Hell, even the framing of a camera shot can remind the audience that they're just watching a fictional story unfold and nothing more.
The only difference is, Gilbert wrote a letter telling us the story was never about Guybrush or pirates or grog and ghosts, and chooses not conclude it, as if reminding them that they had fun getting this far was all they needed. the Authorial intent here is: You spent money on a book missing the final act, and I hope you make up your own conclusions to its ending, just like our game dev team did.
What's funny is, the second game was fine. It was novel and worked. Return to Monkey Island did the same thing. It was not novel, and it did not work because it's just milking nostalgia with an identical ending.
I was ok with the whole "It was all just a child's imagination" thing, but I always felt there was more to Guybrush's story, even behind that layer of imagination. About his supposedly dead and/or abandoning parents, his relation to chucky, about guybrush possibly being adopted... Monkey Island 2 had a lot of subtle hints towards that.
So I figured Ron Gilbert's third game would finally talk more about that. But that's the problem.
It's not really HIS Monkey Island 3. It's not Monkey Island 3a. Even if a lot of the game's promotion claimed it was. It's just Monkey Island 6.
This is honestly what bothers me the most about the game. Not the ending, but the beginning.
The game was advertized as finally continuing the ending of MI2 the way it was always meant to be...
But what we got was basically a big fake-out.
I guess Ron Gilbert didn't want to step on anyone's toes by making his own continuity, so he just made another sequel instead. And the only revelation about Monkey Island 2 we got was that, I guess it was never real either?
Like, the entirety of Monkey Island 2 was just someone playing guybrush's real adventures? So does that mean Monkey Island 1 was fake too? Is anything in this series even real? The story guybrush tells wasn't real... how am I supposed to know Guybrush himself is real? Maybe there are a bunch more layers to this reality that are yet to be peeled away...
Honestly, Return to Monkey Island made me feel dumb for ever getting invested in the series in the first place.
The whole time it seems to say, "Hey, it's just a story. Who cares? Just enjoy the ride and then don't think about it anymore. None of this is real, so stop caring so much!"
I hate these anti-climax, 4th wall breaking, meta endings for the exact reasons you mention. It just cheapens everything. I know some people like them... 9 times out of 10 though, I don't.
totally agree
Your comment has convinced me not to pick this game up. I'm probably just stopping at Curse, I MIGHT play Escape but I've heard bad things about it too.
@@planescaped _"I hate these anti-climax, 4th wall breaking, meta endings for the exact reasons you mention. It just cheapens everything. I know some people like them... 9 times out of 10 though, I don't."_
Yup. I was bit interested about this game but I have to pass.
Real life is cynical enough so I do not want my escapism have "this is just a story bro, why do you care about it that much bro" narratives. I read and watch fiction because I enjoy the occasional dives to peculiar strange new worlds, I already know they are "just stories" I do not need extra layer within the story to remind me of that. It's not clever or revolutionary writing to tell that to the audience.
It's mostly strange that you read/watch some what is practically an art piece and then artist comes and reminds you that it does not actually matter, why are you bothering yourself with it. If that is the case I can easily ignore Return to Monkey Island and delve into other fictions instead.
I did not mind MI2 ending that much, back then it was a nice unexpected twist and was perfectly nice ending to that game series and both games were and are still great.
I have no problem with Ron liking weird meta endings, and I was expecting the secret to be an intentional anti-climax, but Return just felt rushed and unfinished. I expected a weird ending, but I was hoping it would be more creative. It just felt like a rehash of LeChuck's revenge ending, but at least LeChuck's revenge had an actual climax. If Guybrush confronted LeChuck and decided against going after the secret because of what his quest was turning himself into, and then they do the amusement park thing, I'd feel less empty with the ending.
@@Handles_are_garbage 28. I can appreciate the message of the game. I just wish it would told a little differently.
@@Handles_are_garbage I can say being in my early 40s the reflective mood and how this dev connects the journey of the different stages of life to the game and gamer is very clever and quite emotive. It makes you think about life. Also as a gamer who fondly played these originally it hits differently.
@@Handles_are_garbage Well, the thing is, we wouldn't have cared that much about the Secret of Monkey Island if Ron himself YEARS before announcing Return said that nobody still had discovered it. We had, it was the end of Monkey Island 2; creating an obsessive fanbase and then calling them out for being obsessive is a little ironic for me... It's not like "L is real" from Mario 64 which is completely on the player fault.
@@Handles_are_garbage "we" are mostly all the fans that wanted to know what was up with Monkey Island 2 ending... Nerds, if you want. It certainly didn't bother my mother too much which just said "yeah i don't remember too much the end, but the rest was nice isn't it ?"
Ron is the one who wanted that meta commentary and now we are crazy fans for talking about it ? And we are talking in a video about the end of another Monkey Island ? And the guy who made that video isn't a nerd ? And you defending the ending of a game aren't a nerd either ?
I feel like we are all "nerd" and the "obsessive" stuff don't really work as i can clearly see the difference between fans who were interested in Ron work to hear his interview ( the "crazy fans" ) and those who didn't care... And at ANY POINT if Ron didn't wanted to speak to those who were interested in his work, he could have... But of course he won't since it's how he was able to gather interest for new games.
So yeah, i feel that it's a bit hypocrite. Really i would have been fine with no third episode, he is the one that brought it... That teased it, that couldn't let it go. He is the obsessive one, not me.
@@Handles_are_garbage The parallel with my mother who played the Monkey Island game, found them funny but wasn't really interested in them in the end and me is what i used to determine what is a nerd. Like me, you seem interested by the conception of the game, the depth of what he tells and how other people felt about it... So for me, it seems like you are like me; a Nerd ! And in this big family, i think there is nerds that liked Return to Monkey Island and others that didn't and i don't think the first are better than the second.
But you ? You seem to be on a revenge quest, having the almighty Ron delivering just judgement to all the whinny... What was that ?... BASEMENT DWELLERS that dared to defy its deep story... Well if you want. You were way more aggressive than i thought.. I'm happy the game pleased you at least... And that you aren't a nerd after all.. It seems...
In the end really, i was saying just one thing. It's that meta story is good, but i felt like it forget that Ron is selling us a product and have to make us hyped about it. So saying "nothing really matter" don't really work here, we are talking about the sixth (thanks for the correction) follow up of a successful franchise that want to be sold.
If Ron Gilbert wanted to make a video game that didn't involve the '90 point & click subculture, i would be happy to see that of course ! But since The Cave in 2013 it seems like it's hard to come up with.... Which is why i think he is the one which became a little bit obsessive.
Heck, even me, a nerd, had nearly forgotten my old obsession with MOnkey Island... Replaced with other obsession with other franchise like the nerd i am... If Return didn't exist AND Ron didn't say that wasn't the direction he would have taken with Curse, i would have been happy with the end of the second.
But he said that, he said a lot of things too. In the end, i don't think Ron think that "nothing really matter" like you said. Especially in a game which is so kind to make you revisit a lot of location from the first game.. I never asked that, i would have been fine if, i don't know, Guybrush was in a completely unrelated place and wanted to play pirate a last time in completely new island. A bit like Hook you see ? But no, the game wanted us to have a very similar setting as the first..... Why, if "nothing really matter" then ? Because to be honest, i found that annoying.
I don't even talk about strange things like Elaine being... Absent-minded or i don't know, she doesn't feel like a real character here or all Guybrush destruction being strangely forgiven ( Deponia did a lot better on this aspect )
TL;DR : The "nothing really matter" doesn't go that well with the marketing around the project that Ron used to enrich itself so i find that hypocritical.
I enjoyed the game but am still kinda disappointed that after all this time that's how they ended the story.
Like don't get me wrong, the ending twist was amazing.... 20 something years ago when i finished MI2.
And yeh it's still fine now i guess but i feel like there isnt really an ending to this story, this adventure...
I'd have honestly been happy having the same fakeout & bench ending if it just didn't drop the main story where it did and gave us a scene with lechuck & Elaine having some banter before leading into the twist as a throwback/twist again.
I mean it's cool they hinted at/left the door open for guybrushes adventures not being over but that didn't really seem like a "Were making more games" kind of thing. Hell even if it was I'm certainly not going to spend the next x years hoping for/looking forward to another proper MI when I feel this empty.
No matter how much they try, they can never copy the success of the best (imo) in the series - Curse of Monkey Island. We're talking art, animations, music, dialogue, voice over, diversity and complexity of puzzles (visual, textual and musical even!), funny plot twists, character arcs and extra content such as hidden gems... This one is 1/5th as good. Comparing both would be like comparing Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody to Ed Sheeran's Shape of You.
Facts.
I haven’t played the game yet, so I haven’t seen the ending. However if it’s anything like Thimbleweed park I will be very disappointed. He makes incredible games with terrible endings. It’s like he has a very depressing view on the outcome of things lol. Maybe he should make the games and someone else should write the endings. I will wait and see how the game ends once I play it. I wanted to replay one and two first.
Am I the only one who didn't love the game? :)
Don't get me wrong, I was in love with Guybrush being back, I pre-ordered the game and I played it very quickly...but it looked kinda too simple and I didn't get the Monkey Island vibes.
I understand times are different and I read an interview from Ron where he mentioned kids nowadays want straightforwards games/riddle (they have no interested and patience to look to long for solutions) but I still don't think they would be the main target of this game. Having just a left/right click option where all the actions are pretty obvious reduces the thinking only to understand what to use and where.
I spent million hours on previous MIs to complete them figuring out what to do, it took my only 7 (including the time my pc was on while I wasn't in front of) for this one. Anyway, loved to see Guybrush back :)
Sorry to disagree but it felt kind of an extremely forced joke, even Ron Gilbert could avoid the confrontation with LeChuck and do something different like a reconciliation. It felt like they didn't know how to end the game so let's pull a joke and make everyone happy with several forced endings. No, sorry, but I don't buy it
oh that's funny I never even opened the box an the and you can still finish the game, guybrush even mentions that he didn't bother in the ending scene on the bench
Amazing ending and amazing video ;)
WTF happened to Captain Maddison?
"Nothing matters dude, just worship the writer for pointing out that he wrote a story and it didn't fall fully formed from the sky" My thoughts exactly. Dude was leaning so hard on meta lampshading and endless cameos that he forgot he came up with new villains.
I thought the ending was kind of beautiful, although if I could go back and do it again I wouldn't have chosen "There's no one secret", because that banana on its own just raises so many questions
this game is retcon trash much like the star wars diney movies, they take long establish story throw it in the trash the create their own fan fiction and call it cannon. i wanted this game the bridge the end of monkey island 2 with the start of 3 but all i got was a game WORST than a t-shirt.
I like "There isn't any one answer to what the secret is." The idea is that the ending isn't what you WANTED, but what you NEEDED. Everyone has different wants and NEEDS. Guybrush wants the spoils of the secret but really he just needed recognition for doing something difficult, challenging and to be recognized and respected for it. The player wanted an ending that would live up to the expectations of waiting 32 years for it, being able to declare it the greatest narrative ever told. Turns out they just needed closure for the characters, the setting and the cliffhanger they were left with.
...but if the salt water got to you, just go with one of the dozen other hidden endings and decide which one is best for yourself.
But why you suggest that we all ld need this? 😅 We all knew that in details its just another game but were happy to play this product cause of its unique style. I think you are the one who interprets much more to it like you think all people are like you! 🤷♂️
There's no confrontation with the villains or any resolution. I didn't expect to actually learn the secret, but the end should've had some sort of confrontation.
I thought I read somewhere that there were 6 parts so that ending was extra abrupt for me.
@@WeeWalks The previous Monkey Island game (Tales of) had 5 parts. Maybe you're thinking of that.
I do feel like Captain Madison just completely disappearing for the final act is a bit of a cop-out.
"Return to Monkey Island" didn't need any "final confrontation". We've seen that too many times in previous titles. This games makes something different, fresh, brilliant. Frankly artificial finale speaks with our expectations directly. It's time to say "goodbye" to dolls in the box. Journey matters, finale doesn't matter. That's the message.
It's meta messaging. And in the same time it totally has sense inside the story: Guybrush didn't want to tell hard truth to his young son, so he told this silly "abrupt" ending without "confrontation".
So we can interpret ending in two different ways, and both make sense.
And that's why I think this finale is brilliant and special.
@@paveladventures5665 This is pretentious nonsense. "You're not smart enough to get its brilliance!!" isn't enough to cover for an obviously disappointing experience. It's a game. It's supposed to be fun, and part of that fun is wrapping up plot points and having a satisfying conclusion which you feel like you earned.
I'd feel better about the ending if it wasn't the THIRD TIME Ron Gilbert has pulled this trick in an adventure game. Once at the end of MI2 was a cute subversion. Twice - in Thimbleweed Park - felt like he'd written too many disparate plot threads and couldn't tie them up. Third time, it just feels like Gilbert needs to learn how to write an ending already. He's gone back to this well too many times.
Plus, I don't think many - if any - fans really care about the anachronisms and inconsistencies. It's a comedy, and a silly one at that. I don't think I've ever in my life heard someone question WHY there's a Grog machine. It's just that kind of game.
I brought up the Grog machine specifically because people don’t care about it. Why is that thing acceptable but the ending is a step too far?
I think the whole point that Ron was making with the third game, that in case of those adventure games, it's not about the conclusion, its about the adventure. And some secrets are better left undiscovered or vague, and with RTMI he made that point very clear.
And remember, discovering the secret of monkey island was not the point of the first or the second game Ron Made - it was becoming a pirate and finding big whoop. So it's not like there was a big setup made there, I'd say it was kind of a running gag.
Anyone i loved the game so much ;) Other people not liking it will not take away the fun I had with it ;)
Cheers mate!
@@T0mek87 Dudes we all get that! Its like you are ignoring his point at all! Just ridiculous! If Gilbert was already repeating it its nothing special and wtf are you needing someone to tell you its a game adventure? Are you really that lost into media dimensions? Gilbert says like ooh you bought my game and we create a virtual world to play but at the end its all about reality and what you make of it... That doesnt even make sense its like boycotting his own game.
@@eviltrout Because the grog machine (and other things) are obviously silly, but theyre part of a wonderful world which we all love. The ending basically just said "nope. none of it even existed" which ruins the illusion of that wonderful game world. Its the gaming equivalent of kicking down a really nice sandcastle. Did you really just fucking destroy it?? After all that work?? What an anti-climax...
@@eviltrout obvious anachronisms and fourth-wall jokes are very common in parodies, so the idea that these are supposed to be clues that it's actually just a kid in a theme park doesn't land that well.
I would've loved it if the Secret was literally a copy of the video game "The Secret of Monkey Island". That was my #1 guess and it woulda been hilarious
Would've been better than a reused T-shirt joke.
Did you read the sign at the ending? He's telling you that
Amen
@@lucholuchot2743 Which sign? I’ve beaten it three times already but maybe I missed it… or maybe I’m just not remembering at the moment.
@@veespa_ there is a sign close to elaine that says the name of the theme park "the secret of monkey island. Ron Gilbert. 1989". We players playing pirates
I feel the best ending is when you take the key in the last location, but don't open the chest. In the ending scene Guybrush throws the key into lava below Monkey Island, which proves that the world of his adventures really exists.
Is this actually true? I’ve already uninstalled, but will reinstall if there is truth to the possibility of multiple endings…
I just hope we dont have to wait 13 years for another Monkey Island game.
The way this game ends and the back end of the scrapbook suggests to me that Ron isn't done.. Now he has his hands on the series again he wishes to tell more stories with this.. He would have concluded it completely in this game if that's all he had.. But he doesn't.. This game felt like a make a stamp we are back type of story.. Lets wrap up "the secret" plotline with the end of 2 as well.. Fitting enough.. But theres more there... The way this ends and the position Guybrush is in his life at this point.. Elaine talks of another adventure on another island.. And Guybrush takes it all in.. His story and his stories aren't over.. He isn't dead.. He's not so old that he can't do it anymore.. Theres still more to tell.. Thats how I took it.. His son is a setup for more things down the road as well should they wish to move from Guybrush to Boybrush in the next game.. Or have him be involved in the story in someway that he wasn't this time.. He wants to follow his days footsteps.. So theres so much room to keep going with it.. And Disney/Lucasfilm will probably be happy to continue to let him make games with it if he has good pitches to keep telling stories.
If Boybrush takes over, then people will say that they are copying God of War or Resident Evil 8.
I'm going to be way more careful before I think about buying another Monkey Island game
Sea of thieves has a free dlc set on monkey Island
It's pretty good
They even have insult swordfighting
Agree to disagree. I like the many interpretations that you can get from the ending but it wasn't just the final confrontation that was missing... It was tying all the loose ends, seeing what happened to everyone else: Wally, Toothrot, Cap Madison, and a long etc. Ron Gilbert and his team created a universe we loved and cared about, and watching the story finish like that almost caused me physical pain.
And yes, one might argue that that is precisely the joke, but I believe that a satisfying ending would have been perfectly compatible with a final thought on nostalgia, expectations and storytelling,
I agree that a traditional ending would have worked and many people would have enjoyed it - but that doesn’t make this ending bad! It’s clever and consistent with the universe and series.
@@eviltrout of course, "bad" is a subjective term and, surprisingly, I see that so many people liked the ending. That is indeed great and I'm happy for all Monkey Island fans who received a satisfying conclussion.
All I can tell you is that, in spite of the mind-fuck, the final message and the fact that the developers decided to maintain their artistic integrity and deliver the art product they wanted to make and not necessarily what people expected from them... In spite of all this, I felt empty and heart-broken while watching the end credits.
@@RHouseThreat I totally get that, very fair take.
@@RHouseThreat Lol, I almost cried at the end XD Sorry, you didn't like it, i can imagine it the other way around.
@@RHouseThreat wrong, most of the positive critics come from bought bots! The critics are mostly negative. For the main reason that also a lot of classic is missing like for example the insult sword fights. Not even the final fight was one so how you gonna end a game properly when you wasnt even putting all the magic in? That just was lame.
I don't mind a meta ending. I mind the sacrifice of all investment the player has in the characters and world, and all semblance of logic to the stories of the entire series of games in order to have that meta ending.
Good stories generally have satisfying endings. The ending of this game is basically a big "fuck you" to the audience for being invested in the plot and the goal that you spent the entire length of the game pursuing. Is Guybrush an actual pirate, or is he just a quixotic man-child who works at a theme park attraction? It's basically a rehash of the Monkey 2, "It was all a fantasy" ending all over again. Ron Gilbert must really loathe the fans of this series.
I waited 12 years for the conclusion to Monkey Island and all I got was a FU by the DEVS!
I absolutely hated the ending. Almost 35 years waiting only to get the same theme park ending again. And from what I've learned Ron already wanted to do this ending for MI1 but he was convinced not to. That's why MI1 is still my favorite, I also hated MI2 ending. The guy can't just help himself. Anything else would have worked, even if the secret was a chest full of gold... I know you can get that as an option in the last game but still, Ron just doesn't know how to make good endings, period.
I feel like the video give Ron too much credit.
The ending of Monkey Island 3 was actually quite expected since it's the same as Monkey Island 2... Without Chucky making a spooky voodoo glowing eyes... To be honest, if THAT wasn't in the game, we wouldn't even discuss about it and everyone would have understood the ending ! It was brillant ! Everything is an attraction park ! Yes ! The glowing eyes was made only to have some sort of disbelief left in order for Monkey Island to be a licence... Well, that's cool i guess, but as a player should i care about that ?
It could have stayed there, but it's Ron that told in interview that "he wouldn't have made the third entry like that despite Curse being a worthy successor", it's Ron that told that "the Secret of MOnkey Island still hasn't been found" way before Return was announced. HE IS the one that created that whole hype years ago so of course we wanted "new" answers from Return.
And the answers we had was.... "yeah it's still an attraction park" and thanks to you, i can add "we have unrlayable narrator because the story is told each time more dramatically"... So that take care of that Chuckie glowing eye... But still, I'm not sure it's enough to justify a whole game personally, i would have been fine with Monkey Island 2 AND Ron not telling anything about Secret not being discovered because we, in fact, actually discovered it in Monkey Island 2... It's like we have to make the marketing for a whole new game while also saying at the consumer at the end that there isn't much to see after all...
Like Twimbleweed Park, some stuff feel unfinished like how Elaine can go to monkey island that easily or the fact that Guybrush is so easily forgiven for all the destruction he has done... I was sure Elaine wasn't real or something but... No ? Well it's not as bad as Twimbleweed Park but i still prefer how Monkey Island 2 show us little by little thing that makes less and less sense... Oh well.. For the rest, the game was nice to play even if it felt a little bit empty, a lot less NPCs except of the Ice Island which felt like the most fleshed out one.
I think Ron should create new universe from now... And he should tell us we are playing a video game from the beginning instead of keeping it for the end... It gets old...
The only thing that bothered me was the lack of actual monkeys in Return to Monkey Island. There was literally NOT A SINGLE living monkey.
Okay, but all this BS could still be there if he wrote an actual ending to the story he was telling.
Guybrush never shuts up about finding the secret from the second you start the game. He never shuts up about defeating lechuck and the game makes you put a lot of time and effort into achieving these goals. Why isn't that foreshadowing? Why doesn't that get to be fulfilled? Because the writer made an arbitrary choice not to, then went back and put a few vague references to it in the script. Bad writing with a warning is still bad writing.
Any idiot can just leave a story unfinished but it takes work, skill and care to write an ending that makes the story work, or work better.
Don't praise this guy for "subverting" we know it never goes well when it's all the writer wants to do.
Even though you don‘t distinctively mention the name, the disappointment with Game of Thrones’ ending and the leadup to it was also one of the first things that came to my mind when Return to MI’s credits rolled. Gilbert’s following "explanation letter" certainly was the icing on the cake: I imagine GoT’s series finale’s "Inside the episode" (that never came to be) would have been similarly depressing …
@@deeman4387 "Dani kinda just forgot about the Iron Fleet" just like Ron kinda forgot about concluding a good story 😆
@@Phantom914 WINTERRRRR IS CO- I've seen maybe one entire episode of the series 8 years ago in Season 1. It immediately went into a brutal grape and torture scene, and there's not really any amount of good writing that's going to make me stick around for that.
Great video! I'd love to add to the conversation, and I hope it can be done in a civil manner.
I'm not upset by the ending itself: I think the game foreshadowed and built up to it sufficiently, and we all knew that Ron Gilbert would pull a trick like that.
But while I don't think it was a bad idea, I *do* think it was a *poorly executed* idea.
The theme, throughout the game, is that it's the journey that matters, not the destination. But then, what about the trail of destruction that Guybrush left behind, which Elaine slowly uncovered over the course of the game? Shouldn't *that* matter too? Guybrush hurt people, animals, and the environment because of his fixation with The Secret... and the story's framing basically implies that that's fine, since it was all in the name of having a fun adventure. Elaine doesn’t even confront him about it, she just brings it up and then laughs it off.
Guybrush getting away with the pain he has caused in the name of finding The Secret contradicts the final message that it's all about the journey.
I think a more consistent and honest way to deliver this tale would've been for Guybrush to realize in the final act that his obsession is making him just as bad as LeChuck, and then working to undo the damage he has caused, putting the forgiveness frog to use again across the various islands he has visited. Abandoning his search for The Secret in favor of what really matters (family, friendship, kindness...) would've been more compatible with the moral, and a better lesson for Guybrush's son to learn from this story. It would've also been a better justification for lacking a final confrontation with LeChuck. *Then* we could have had the same ending, shirt and all. That's my opinion!
The Elaine cut scenes were super interesting to me and I agree that they dropped the ball with the conclusion of that thread. It felt like a build up to nothing.
I think that it was on purpouse. The final conversation with Elaine wasn't with Guybrush. It was with the player. She points out the destruction you made to find the Secret, and the point is that you as a player feel bad. It worked for me lol. Then, she makes you understand that the expectation you have of the secret will always be higher than the reveal. And asks you what do you expect to find. I was stunned at that point, and started to think. What do I expect? Gold? Magic? Nothing will be enough. The ending clicked in every way for me. Guybrush entered the final gate, confronted Lechuk and found the secret. But that is not important in the story he is telling his kid.
@@messisimulacro I agree entirely. I also think the very last scene on the bench can be positioned as Guybrush (Gilbert) talking to his son (You The Player) he allows us to interpret the ending whichever way we wish via the dialog choices. There is an answer there for each “type” of takeaway. Do you want the adventure to continue forever? Well then the real treasure is actually rubies and gems, buried somewhere else, you’re free to dream about what that adventure might be. Or are you ready to let go? Then accept that this is really about something you can’t ever get back, the wonder of childhood.
dude he doesnt care about that, he is a pirate lol
I am, much like C S glad I didn't have to get a frog but I will admit that it's a funny easter egg where you see Guybrush tick off each thing in the leaflet that tells you how to be like LeChuck as you do those things.
I totally get where you're going with this but it just felt very incomplete plot thread wise. And also your point about confronting LeChuck, like while I get FANS would be encountering and fighting LeChuck for like the uptenth time, this was my first time playing and I was looking forward to seeing where all this build up was going. I wanted to confront LeChuck myself in this new adventure and see what all the hubbub was about. Tho I will acknowledge that yes, I can just play the older games to see for myself, but I did buy this game thinking I'd get a similar experience as people got with the original, not a "well we're back, we've done this already, lets skip it".
This subversion, while I did like what it was doing, did feel very anti-climatic once I thought about it for a bit longer. I do like the themes it was presenting and what it was going for, but after thinking about it for a bit, it did feel like it tossed aside a lot of compelling threads and story beats just to go for a fake out ending.
Again, I loved the ending for what it was, I just wish it had a bit more in between "about to confront LeChuck" and "It doesn't really matter, its the journey". Especially since it brought up a lot of damages Guybrush did but then just brushed it aside for a "hope its all worth it" like yeah, I did hope he would reflect on it all and consider whether or not it was worth it! But not really, I guess :p
Side Note: I saw someone point out that was towards the player, but I didn't do any of that! I just clicked on the tree and expected Guybrush to snap a branch off, not destroy the whole tree. All that was HIM! My only sin was melting the Ice Sculpture of the Queen, which was the only time I felt like Guybrush with the "Oh whoops...."
I literally guessed he went back to the idea at the end of Monkey Island 2 and made Lechuck and Guybrush kids playing and Monkey Island is all in their imagination. Ugh... I'm surprised he went back to that idea, at least made it so obvious. The ambiguity of monkey island 2 was fine, but I think this over-explains things.
Curse of Monkey Island is still the best game in the series by far if you ask me.
Counter Argument. The Secret of Monkey Island (MI1) HAD an ending. Guybrush defeated LeChuck and got with Elaine. So what’s wrong with that? Everyone was happy that it had a real ending. Because it’s a story. And a story doesnt need to simply collapse at the end because the creator cant think of something (Neon Genesis). it can have an ending. It doesn’t need to ponder ‘what is an ending?’. It never needs to do that. It just needs something. Anything. Anything, please. Come on Sopranos. Come on Ron.
Guybrush says that most of the stuff happens in the middle of the story. Ok, cool. So just have something happen at the end. And now you’ve told a story. Doesn’t have to be genius or revolutionary or even that clever. It’s fine. Ron, it’s fine
Nothing is wrong with the traditional ending of MI1. I’m not saying all games should be weird or anything just that there’s room for experimentation especially once the audience has already gotten traditional stuff before.
@@eviltrout What worries me is that the new tradition is the non-tradition. If you want to subvert my expectations adding an actual ending will do it. This meta-crap gets boring fast as most of the time it feels like a cop-out.
To put it another way, if you want to be meta you better make the meta ending work as satisfactory as an actual ending, which would take as much of an effort as writing a proper ending, if not more.
Easiest way to avoid the hard work of writing a good story is to flatter the part of the audience whos brain short circuits when they hear meta.
@@eviltrout But this isn't experimental. He literally is repeating what he did 30 years ago. "It was all a theme park" was literally the twist decades ago.
The Secret of Monkey Island's ending was also something of a subversion, though in a more subtle way. If you look at the details you'll realize that Guybrush's adventure was almost completely pointless: It wasn't necessary to sail to Monkey Island because Lechuck came back to Melee, and it wasn't necessary to get the voodoo root if even regular root beer will destroy a ghost. And Guybrush didn't even need to stop the wedding. Elaine had already escaped and come up with a plan to get rid of Lechuck. Guybrush could have done absolutely nothing and Lechuck would have still gotten dosed by root beer.
Guybrush's real accomplishment was just that a nerdy little goofball like him got to have a piratey adventure at all. It was the journey. And of course, Guybrush did at least get to meet Elaine, so it wasn't entirely for nothing.
This make Guybrush's portrayal in Lechuck's Revenge both understandable and depressing. It's understandable that Guybrush would constantly be boasting about how he beat Lechuck, because it's the only claim to fame he has. And he's clinging to his one accomplishment because all of his other achievements got subverted. But it's depressing that he and Elaine are no longer together, because meeting her was the only other thing that made Guybrush's adventure worthwhile.
"The real secret is the friends we made along the way," but if your friends don't like you anymore, than what do you have to show for it?
I have to disagree. I thought the whole game was too easy and didn't have the same feel as other titles. 1 and 2 were great for their time but compared to 3 and 4 they're not that great. This game was basically a rewrite of MI1. Very unoriginal.
If we are talking about having a big confrontation with LeChuck, I don't feel this game could have topped the battle with him at the end of Tales. When LeChuck doesn't need to work with Guybrush anymore he stops messing around and kills him the first chance he gets, showing he learned from his past defeats, and the final confrontation is you trying to get LeChuck into the right place while he beats the crap out of Guybrush.
Somehow every piece of media wants to subvert my expectations… but I think that in this case like in most other cases the subversion isn’t satisfying.
I mean… it’s obvious that a game like Monkey Island isn’t really about the ending or about the big secret… it’s about everything else that happened before it…
And the big reveal is that nothing gets revealed and that there are no satisfying explanations at all.
But that’s something that way too many comics/mangas/series/movies did before with Lost as the worst offender…
So when One Piece finally ends (in a few decades) I expect the big reveal to be something similar stupid as "The One Piece were the friends we made along the way.“😅
I think that’s fair. It doesn’t work for everyone.
When Elaine started badgering Guybrush about being a bad person... I almost shut off the game. "How could you chop down that tree?" oh you mean the one that the game made me chop down? Do game writers really think they are smart with this stuff? It exposes them as manipulative gaslighters.
They also sneakily pulled the "Let me destroy all the previous versions" by making Guybrus not actually a Pirate the trials didn't count, but it doesn't matter and he is not a heroe in fact he destroyed everything and everyone in the story what a great game!
I love the first game, I liked the second one until the stupid ending. I didn't like 3 and 4 that much, but now 3 and the way it solves the ending of 2 looks like a masterpiece compared to how this game handled it. I think it's awful how they handled the ending of 2 instead of going with "it was a curse by Lechuck", and the ending is crap. It's like Ron Gilbert loves to make "but it wasn't real!!" plot twists as endings. I find it insulting, and makes everything pointless, nothing matters, all the stuff you went through in 1 and 2 was for nothing if it wasn't real and it was either just a story or just kids playing. it retroactively ruins 2 making it "it's just kids playing, you are not seeing the real story as it actually happened". I wish I could express or explain better why I hate this concept so much.
I'm with you on that one. Love the beginning and middle of MI2
Let me help you out with the explanation Probably because the whole point of fantasy is to be fantastical. If you take The Matrix as an example when the reveal happens the world moves from the mundane to the fantastic,we have machines enslaving people and there's a battle going on.
Whereas the theme park idea moves from the fantastic to the mundane, the wrong kind of twist for a story to take.
This is the story of a flooring inspector who sits on a bench and tells his kid more stories which themselves are not entirely reliable.
In that case, it's not that there is something 'more' going on than we thought there is something less.
You and me probably signed up for literal skeleton pirates.
Indeed, the way MI3 solves mi2 ending has proven a masterpiece thanks to Return to MI.
really, this is your *favorite* monkey island game? yah sure about that?
also, if a resolution or final climatic conflict was so unnecessary to you, why even bother play the game at all? wouldn't you just say, we've done this problem solving, conflict, and resolution thing so many times so will one more game really even make a difference? who cares if the whole game is missing?
I'll argue that the 'anticlimactic' nature of THIS Monkey Island is worse than the others because it doesn't even finish its own story. Yes, MI2 might have gotten weird and meta at the end, but they still allowed you to see the conclusion that that particular confrontation of Guybrush and LeChuck.
This game doesn't do that. It pulls back the curtain, but before the 'play' has finished. Yes, we might know the outcome, but THAT'S part of storytelling too. If I build up to a climax of some grand epic and then say 'I'm sure you can guess where this goes, just fill in the rest and YOU interpret what I might have intended' that's not subverting expectations, that's literally refusing to finish my story, made worse by the follow up cop out of 'Well, you maybe just don't GET it.'
I get it. It just sucks.
I hated how the intro fools you into thinking we'll finally going to see what happened in the MI2 ending to then...subvert expectations again. Did Ron learn nothing from D&D?
Buying this game on a discount. You are allowed to hate Return as long as there's no real outrage. Old leopard spots as they say. But I won't buy it without a discount. Oh, and good lucking getting sequels Ron. You killed the interest for more.
I found that insulting. I used to not like 3 because he didn't make it, but now I think 3 handled the ending of 2 a lot better.
And I hate the ending of this game. I hate it when something uses the "but it wasn't real!" plot twist. So 1 and 2 were pointless, nothing mattered, it wasn't real. I want to know my favorite stories actually happened. (in their universe obviously!, I don't mean in reality hahaha. I mean I don't want MI2 to be kids playing).
Great video. I was having trouble interpreting the ending, and searching Reddit for answers only left me more confused and angry. Your explanation really helped me put everything into perspective. Thanks!
At the very end, you see what would have eventually happened. Guybrush gets the key as Lila and Le Chuck fight over both it and the chest through some sort of puzzle, all to find the Secret of Monkey Island and get his closure.
I am curious as to what you mean by that.
@@disneyboy3030 I'm saying that it would have been a typical ending but Guybrush cut it out because he didn't feel like it was needed, as it's already happened so many times before.
I guess what made me upset was that the did have an ending that wrapped things up nicely in Tales of Monkey Island. Say what you want about the Telltale series, it was a little mopey-dopey at parts, but it did at least build up to the best ending the series could have had. It didn't tie up all loose ends, but it felt like a grand conclusion to a beloved series.
I agree. Imo Tales‘ story as a whole was much stronger and more creative than Return‘s …
I get it, but I'm not thrilled with it. It would have been nice to see an actual final battle and a real conclusion, and then maybe have this ending as a secret ending or something. This is Ron's love/goodbye letter to the series (maybe genre?) so I can see why he wanted to reiterate the message of the previous games again.
I think he stated this on multiple occasions throughout the game (like with Voodoo Lady's name) that knowing the answer may be underwhelming, and sometimes not knowing is the point. That's when I knew that I won't be getting a clear answer on what the secret is :P For a moment i thought it would be a chest that cannot be opened, and the secret should actually be a secret, literally XD
"It was never real or all a dream" is the laziest form of writing.
I think that’s an oversimplification here
I enjoyed playing it. But the end feels like a hard cut. Nothing about the villains, nothing about Elaines investigations on Guybrushs mistakes or any other character, and yes, nothing about the secret.
The only real ending of the story is the letter of the developers, and while it's lovely - it's also only meta. Or did I just missed it?
Aaaanyways - loved to play it with my wife. :)
Just beat it a couple of minutes ago. You can say about that ending what you wan't but it will keep you thinking. What I loved about that ending is Elains final quote about that new treasure. It gives you a hint that Guybrush infact was a real pirate before he got kids. And that the adventures wasn't just escape daydreams
That's exactly what I thought.
The secret isn't about a child playing make-believe at a theme park, it's about a semi-retired pirate telling embellished stories to his children. And that's kind of beautiful - it explains the sequels, it keeps things swashbuckling and nautical, and keeps the events of the games relevant. It's also why we all have slightly different experiences through different dialogue choices etc.
It's the perfect meta. It's beautiful.
No. It is just another attraction in that park.
@@SupremeCommanderBaiser except in Monkey Island 2 credits shows Elaine still waiting for Guybrush. Which shows the adventures are real.
@@DefinitelyReagan That's the way I read it too, and I think the beauty of the ending is that it is very open to interpretation.
Interesting! My take is a bit different.
I thought Elaine talked about the new treasure because she plans on giving the son a little "family adventure" of their own and just wanted to give Guybrush a heads up on what "adventure" they would do next. In my mind they are just hardcore pirate fans, kinda like the renaissance fair but for pirates, hence the costumes.....and I think they probably also contribute to the park, because of the love "Guybrush"(and later on Elaine) had when he first experienced the park growing up.
My theory is that MI1 was little kid "Guybrush" actually experiencing the park for the first time(and was in total awe) and MI2 was like early to late teens "Guybrush" but was actually working at the park and that's where he meet Elaine(another pirate fan)....and over the years they fell in love, made some friends(in and out of the park) and had their kid. In the end, as the kid hears the tale, he adds his own spin hence the ending to MI2.
So in a way, in my mind he wasn't doing the escapism in daydreaming, but instead telling his son the family story, while telling a fun tale in the process. At the end he just reminisces about his life in peace.
I could go on, and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer but in my mind it's a wholesome ending.
Beyond the fact that the little one second post credits clips felt rather tacked on - - some of them without even any sound--to an unskippable ten minute credits roll, I think my main problem was how you went about getting the more adventurous outcomes.
Going into the game I think players were primarily of two camps, one who believed in the metanarrative that Gilbert is now patently (in) famous for, and those who believed in the fantasy of the world.
At the end going to Elaine and leaving gives you more grounded reality based endings. However, going back into the cave (to say nothing of Plato's) gives you one or two seconds of more narratively satisfying endings.
I felt that the going back into the bowels without Elaine was a sort of rejection of Elaine. You're running away from your wife to wallow in some fantasy. Guybrush's dialog with her is confused and muddled as if ehs starting to have memory problems. Elaine's responses are patient and placating, as if she's humoring a child. All of this reads somewhat mean spirited to those who wanted to believe in the fantasy, that didn't want another meta conclusion.
As it is, beyond Elaine's tip about Maya Island, there's nothing in the frame of the story to suggest that any of this is even real. Guybrush is an imaginative flooring inspector at a theme park, with a beautiful wife and a little scamp of a kid. That's all we technically know for sure if we're to take the meta narrative at face value.
To fox this I would have put a dialog option to have Elaine come with you. To hehe the spark of adventure which had always been lit on her come to the fore and they both plunge themselves back into the bowels of monkey Island together.
I dunno. I just thought it'd be more adventurous and faithful to the lore. Say what you will about tales, I thought they nailed the ending to part five.
The only conclusion that ending gave me was that stupid back alley door.
Remember the ending of Escape when we fought a giant LeChuck and Herman was revealed to be Elaine’s father? Good times. Everyone hates that one but at least they tried to give us a satisfying conclusion to the series.
The game calls the Guybrush's son "Boybrush".
Hah! I must have missed that.
@@eviltrout Yes, I think you can only catch that, if you have speaker names enabled in the settings 😄
I loved the game. And I loved the ending. But good lord, the MI subreddit is full of loud people who love to complain.
I think it’s totally fine to not like the ending but some small yet really loud percentage of gamers are super annoying and entitled about this kind of stuff. Discuss what you don’t like or move along and say nothing - being immature, mean or sarcastic doesn’t help anyone.
This ending might have worked, if we hadn't already gotten it before and it didn't feel like they had to cut an entire last act, in order to meet a deadline. So many characters who get no resolution.
btw the "flooring inspector" reference has started at the very beginning of The Secret of Monkey Island (first game), where the lookout says to Guybrush that he looks more of a flooring inspector to him than a pirate. :)
That also got referenced in CMI when the ghost of Minnie Goodsoup says she's really attracted to pirates, Guybrush claims to be a flooring inspector. :)
the ending was whatever. Act 4 was good, the artstyle was too different from 1, 2 and even 3. The scumm interface is better than just righ click/left click. The start of the game where u play as a kid was truely horrible. The story lacked any sense of danger or immersion. The new pirateleaders and guybrush himself are all boring. Game has no edge at all as opposed to the 3 first ones. 2/10
I agree with you.
I can see your point about comparing the ending to visit of the grand canyon and the t shirt being an attempt to keep the feeling going but I cant help but feel you are missing several points.A visit to a special place is like a story of its own,theres the beginning when you are heading there,the middle when you are actually experiencing it and the end when the fun has been had,its time to go home and the souvenir is,not so much an attempt to keep the feeling going as it is to bring back the memories you made.The trouble with this game is that the ending isnt an ending at all its basically saying that everything you went through,the puzzles you solved,the enemy you fought so hard against didnt actually happen so it was all pointless.You can say "But we have fought Le Chuck before and won so whats the point?" but who doesnt enjoy a good recurring villain? For example how many times has Batman defeated the Joker? They have been going at it for over 80 years now and they are still around.All stories need a good draw in to get your interest,a good plot to keep you moving through them and a good ending as a reward and this one completely dropped the ball.Sorry for the long winded rant everyone........:-)
Nah men. Return to monkey island had no sense. Not even on any point of view you look. It have no ending like Monkey2 and it's stupid and not funny.
I still don’t understand what happen to the adult version of guybrush and lechuck at the end of monkey island 2 and how suddenly we jumped to another scene of their kids story in future time . Did you get skip timeline or what ?
Can anyone explain ? Did I miss anything ?
The ending just implied the Adventure was a kids fantasy, they were kids all along.
I guess the hand waving intro to Curse is canon now?
Same question here
@@wipidipipaku agree with other , after searching it seems the second monkey island game was completely an imaginary adventure made up by boy-brush and chucky . Imagining themselves as guybrush and lechuck . And this was confirmed in last scene between guybrush and his boy
According to the "scrapbook" from Return to Monkey Island (and to Ron Gilbert confirming in an interview that all games will remain "canon"), Monkey Island 2 did happened "except" for the last part (which was an invention of Guybrush's sons): Guybrush defeated LeChuck using a voodoo doll, and somehow ended drifting in the sea (which is where Monkey Island 3 begins).
I'd recommend B-Mask's video on the subject. Dude was crucified for even suggesting story details like this by the fandom because they wanted Monkey Island to be authentic. Makes sense that fans would find the ending disappointing.
Thing is I dont need someone to tell me the beauty of stories. We play it just because its another reality story and that it could might be true. Its liek you are mocking the players.
@@stillgotyourmom Haven't played the games myself, all I'm going to say is the creator who came back must've done too much of a good job for people to want Monkey Island to mean something lmao. I seriously feel bad for the guy because according to B-Mask... lore for the island would still continue (kinda like real life theme parks). It's just these set of games in particular is where he wanted to say something.
@@christophercarrasco154 Well me neither I played return to save me the negative 😁 Im not against you! All Im saying is that people in fact search a way to fantasize like they get their coffee all day to chill. Doing this with the game its like saying ohh your coffee is 90%beans, 5% coffein, 5%milk (dont mind this %ages 😁) and so we all know what it really is in the back of our heads. I dont see the sense in that end even Im not a hardcore fan. For me after 3 it was done and even if fans cry cause Gilbert wasnt on board, for me 3 is still the best and a lot of people see it as one of the best. Thing is that this was Schafers work who was one of the 3 mains involved in the first 2. So did he Grim Fandango and Throttle! For me this man was the real genius behind it and Gilbert got the name which fans cant stand. Gilberts game cataloge isnt really impressive and his legend lives of monkey island. I think its not fair but anyway...
I mean they introduce new villains and they just don't appear for the last 3/4 of the game, then they are discovered dead in the background. Do you think this is good writing? The meta lampshading trick does not instantly make your poor writing good. It might impress weak minded individuals but most people want a good story.
I like your explanation of the tshirt and what it represents. It makes sense. And what if the theme park was created to kind of relive his Monkey Island adventure because he can't have the real thing anymore? There are so many ways to interpret this. The hint of another adventure at the end with Elaine... That could be seen as proof that everything that happened in the story actually happened?
I was a pretentious meta-ending. I have a slight feeling that the creator hated his fans.
Somehow i trust Yahtzee opinion about this game more than you so i will never play it
I'll answer your question: E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G
Why do you feel you need to start by saying you're a long term monkey island player? That seems kind of stupid. It doesn't give you better insight than others. The developers pulled a "Lost" here. No shame in admitting it.
It seems that even the Big Whoop amusement park itself was only in the children's imagination, when they stop bothering the fake parents and go back to buy scurvydogs it's just a park by the sea where they had gone with another friend and Boybrush's real father.
In the second room though there’s clearly a ride in the background of some sort though?
@@eviltrout Well, I hadn't paid too much attention to the prelude so I took a closer look again and it seems so, but it has a worn look... maybe the park existed when Guybrush was Boybrush's age and now there are only a few remnants left?
On the race track one of the banner flags says FUN and the other clearly said SPIT, exactly like the Booty Island spitting contest, but they put a patch over it that says RUN...
And the ornaments on the mast of the ship are definitely Lemonhead's mask and another one that with the new art style looks a bit strange but I think it could be the original cannibal leader.
@@ruben_balea All of this makes perfect sense... except for Elaine appearing on MI2 credits wondering why Guybrush hasn't returned yet, maybe LeChuk cast a SPELL on him?
One detail that messes up the starting retcon is when Guybrush is trying to make stairs to get up a tree and he bumps his head he sees his parents then too, who then turn into skeletons and sing him the headbone's connected to the neckbone song. So yeah, very big coincidence that the couple the son picked to be his pretend parents look exactly like his dead grandparents.
Exactly that.
One of the mechanics of the game is to literally tell a story :D
Wow I feel dumb for not including that now!
Nice point.
They force you to make an "embellished" story, not just telling the "real" and "not detailed" story, if you want to pass the test of the Pirate leaders.
Imagine Luke Skywalker before entering the Throne Room on Return of the Jedi. The audience has been following Luke's adventures for several years now and people have connected with the characters of the Star Wars universe. If Luke would have crossed that door to discover a theme park run by Lando, and the audience would see Darth Vader was nothing more than a puppet all along...
It's not just making fun of fans for taking the story seriously, it also doesn't make much sense within the story. Stan was imprisoned in a very uncomfortable icy jail. If he owns the park, why would he be freezing there with shackles waiting until the apparent single client finds a way to free him? The story also shows Elaine finding out the aftermath of Guybrush's acts without Guybrush being aware; she then confronts him about this later on. If all these things happened in Guybrush's imagination, how could Elaine see the effects, including the dead 'mopping tree' and the Scumm Bar ruins after the earthquake? Additionally, theme parks open for many people and we never see any suspicious characters that seem out of place. As a kid, I could not ignore the hundreds of tourists at Disney World, much less as an adult, even though I've never lacked imagination.
All in all, I loved the game: the humor, the characters, the art, and the story up to the unreasonable ending. I guess it was impossible to please everyone by selecting one specific 'Secret'. Yet, I believe Guybrush made up that ending because his son was not ready to know the real one ☠ 🦜
tbh. even as somebody, who's main complaint on Adventure games only boils down to "could've been longer", the ending was rather unsatisfying.
however, i'm still glad that it's not "literally everything was a DrEaM" and the ending is just a skewed version of the actual events.
but that's only a small consolation.
Thank you for the wonderful video essay! It perfectly encapsulates the nature of the ending and of the game as a whole. RtMI is a reflection on the art of storytelling... On the surface level, it is a goofy adventure with pirates, but the ending makes you question what was real and what was not. The Prelude and the Ending are my favorite parts of the game. I played RtMI over the course of a year around six times already and I can't get enough of it. I love the game all the way through. And I greatly enjoy the deliberate ambiguity of the ending. I appreciate that Ron and Dave constructed it in such a way that still leaves room for questions and speculations afterward. Again, thanks for your take in this great video essay!
Really enjoyed the game, but felt the ending was kind of a lazy cop out. We got all these hanging plot threads? Not any more we don't! But it's whatever... still worth playing and I hope to see another game this decade.
The ending simply did not turn out to be to my liking, and in truth it is not necessary to give arguments about why I disliked it if other people have already said more than enough things that do not work here, and about why I no longer have interest to the rest that Gilbert takes out, for which, this simply sucks in the supposed "third" game of the original chronology...
I think the game is kind of childish. I think Monkey 1 and 2 are more mature. The artstyle is also kind of children's book style, kind of takes the mystic of awesome background drawing we were used to have in the first 3 games. The ending is kind of complex with no reason to be that complex. I don't know, I liked it, but not one of my favorites. It's great to have another Monkey game appeared from nowhere though. Maybe more will come!
Fun fact: that little boy is not “Guybrush Senior”
If you turn on “Show names in conversations” setting, it will show you that the kid’s name is “Boybrush” lol a good pun from Ron Gilbert
Junior*
"No ending would ever meet your expectations" Therefore I'm gonna writte a bad ending with the excuse of subversing expectations!
Honestly it's a ripp off It ruins an otherwise excellent game.
2 Times the played that card after all this years, thank god I played it on gamepass and didn't waste any money on this!
All this video argues is that an ironic, clichéd ending is better than a traditional, clichéd ending. Well why not try making an interesting, non-clichéd ending then? Those aren't the only options.
Wen my daughter and i saw the ending we where just silent. We played all other games before and did not expect this. But it was not that it was bad. Just unexpected and a bit bitter sweet. But after some time it grew on me that an ending like that is much better, because it show you that not everything have to go your way.
No sorry. Saying that we already saw the final confrontation so we don't need it again is utterly ridiculous. We already saw the ending of this game in MI2, too, but that didn't stop them from re-using it. If you think like that, then just don't make the game at all. We already saw it multiple times! This ending sucks, it comes out of nowhere, ignores all story thread and makes the whole game not only irrelevant, but downright bad. And it's like this because they obviously run out of money, time or willingness to finish what they started. This is by far the worst monkey island ever made and it's even worse because of the fact that people try to find a deeper meaning to it... as if I needed monkey island to tell me that people grow up and the glories of the past are forever gone. As if that were a great message nobody had delivered before. Give me a break. If I could refund it I would, the best I can do is forget I ever played it
Just so people know, once you complete the game go to the journal and to the final page and guybrush gets a letter from Ron Gilbert explaining what the secret is once and for all
No I hated the ending. That's just not storytelling. Personally, Curse and Tales were the best games in the series. I think Ron Gilbert needs to stay away from the franchise going forward.
I thought it sucked nothing more nothing less, but different people means different opinions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A meta ending worked for Monkey Island 2. But to do it again is lazy and disappointing. It’s a shame because it’s otherwise a really good game.
The ending is the beginning of future adventures - and this is wrong? Your opinion... (maybe there was someone diving for more than 10 minutes?!)
I'm kind of glad I didn't play this now. The ending seems lazily hackneyed.
Sure, we may have seen the confrontation multiple times, but by not closing the loop it prevents any satisfaction. You may know how this sentence
There's another ending if u use Stan's key ring on the employees only door and go back through the monkey caverns
It isn't bad, but not better than Curse. The ending is okay-ish, but Ron is starting to get to be a one trick pony with these endings.
Just a little thing you might have missed the joke of Guybrush's son, it's not Guybrush junior, if you activate the option to add the name to any dialogue, he is called Boybrush
overall I agree with you, an excellent ending, it was not about the goal but the journey, I think it is a bit foreshadowed when Elaine bring us back to monkey island asking what we hope the secret is, my answer was that it wasn't really important, we needed to find it, it's the hunt for the white whale, we waited for 30 years to leanr what happened after monkey island 2, the secret in itslef was less important than finding it. and in a universe as weirdly coherent as the one of monkey island, finding a t-shirt waas unexpected but finally made a lot of sense with everything we experienced in this game and the others, it HAD to be a stupid t-shirt.
He literally calls him Dad
@@falconeshield never said it wasn't his dad, just that there is a joke with the son's real name: boybrush
I think the disappointing part is not that there is a T-shirt in the chest. It's that the final ending is obviously made up. So it is likely that there was no T-shirt in "reality" and also no amusement park. In the end the game lets you decide what the secret actually was.
But that could have been executed better in my eyes, simply by giving the player the option to choose (in the present while telling the story to boybrush) before following LeChuck and then actually playing through a slightly different ending after going through the door which actually reveals what happens to all the characters in the end and what's in the treasure (if you decide to open it).
Game developers these days keep trying to tell you that it's about the journey and not the end (which is true for life), but in fact the ending is super important for stories to tie ends and make conclusions. If there is no real end, the story feels pointless, no matter if you heard it, read it, watched it or played it.
It creates frustration, which you can often see online when games or movies end like this.
I must admit I was expecting a bad ending, or at least a choice of a bad ending. I imagined the last act was going to be set up with Guybrush either murdering someone, or hurting them, to learn the secret of monkey island. Would Guybrush (the player) be willing to commit such acts of piracy to learn the secret? The reason I came to this conclusion is because if you read the "Inspirational pamphlet" during the game, you will notice that Guybrush starts checking off things that he's done on the list. For example Betray Trust, Commit Fraud, Destroy the beloved. Towards the end of the game you will notice that there are a couple of remaining acts to check off of the list. "Threaten Bodily Harm" and "Murder Those Who Get In Your Way". I was worried that given the foreshadowing with Elaine and the bad things he was doing, he was going to stop at nothing to find out the secret. Thankfully this never happens For what it's worth I wouldn't have committed murder or harm to learn the secret.
Anyway, great game I loved it, and for the record I chose the riches and gold ending, because I thought Guybrush deserved a bit of cash.
I didnt mind the ending, id be a little disappointed if a monkey island game didnt have a terrible ending at this point .
I thought the story was well done. It's just the absolutely awful art style that I could not stand.
Really bad ending mediocre game. Bring back monkey island 3 team!
Why do you keep saying guybrush junior when it is boybrush..
Maybe it's my way of seeing it but I feel the vagueness of this ending sort of works to appease BOTH sides of the fandom.
The folks on the side of all of it being fiction can see this ending as Guybrush telling his son fantastic stories about pirates made from. the amusement park he works at.
And the one on the side of the s
pirate world being real, can take this as a retired Guybrush telling this story after countless of adventures and him not being the best at endings.
Neither side gets more play than the other in this game, unlike MI2, so in the end how YOU interpret the story is what matters.
Yeah, I feel bad for people who didn't like it, but i don't think there was a way to make everyone happy. At least the discussion around it is pretty open :)
The art style puts me off even playing it TBH.
Why does the person talking sound like that?
Or, it was just a bad ending. - The End
The monkey island games were always about storytelling.
The secret of monkey island was made when Ron was frustrated with how many adventure games were made and how he wanted the experience of the story to be more refined, to immerse you in the story, to make sense in the narrative context and to be fun.
At the start of the game you hear stories about LeChuck and how he wanted the governor.
The second game is literally a story being told until the final act and Guybrush quest to find Big Whoop is not for riches but for storytelling, ever sense he blew up LeChuck he told and retold the story and now everyone is tired of it and so he is in a search for a new story to tell.
While the ending could easily be interpreted as a Voodoo curse it is ambiguous and it suggests that the entire adventure is just a story made by the imagination of child, and in truth - is it not? The events of the story are fictional, obviously, and half of the experience of the story is filling the holes in your head, you are like Guybrush pretending that you are a mighty pirate until the story ends.
I can't say I don't have troubles making my peace with the idea that in universe all of Guybrush's adventures are nothing more than a make belief but I have to admit it dose line up with the themes of the first two games.
This game make things even more ambiguous, maybe the story is real but it is clear that Guybrush isn't a reliable narrator and so what actually happened behind this door is unclear, if it isn't just a fable made by Guybrush that is.
what the fuck? Ron Gilbert has pissed in our face and you still justify him, i mean wtf
@@Redacted-mi4rm Just because you didn't like how he have chosen to conclude the game dose not mean he is "pissing in our face". It is a controversial ending but it isn't pointless, and I do see value in what it is trying to say.
I simply don't like those kind of endings.
I liked it a lot actually
It is only bad if it really is The End.
It's Boybrush, not Guybrush Jr
in my opinion they should of pulled a sopranos
I just beat this game today and was impressed with finally discovering the real Secret of Monkey Island. From worst to best I still rate the second game as my least favorite one and the third game as my favorite one. This game was good, I’m glad Ron Gilbert was able to make the game he intended to make decades ago.