Why Gender Matters | The Lila Rose Podcast E99
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- It has always been common sense to believe that boys and girls are different, yet modern “intellectuals” have been questioning these basic truths, blaming “social conditioning” for the cause of gender differences. Today I sit down with Dr. Leonard Sax, MD PhD, to debunk common myths about gender. We discuss how boys and girls have different brain development, how boys’ and girls’ play preferences compare to male and female chimpanzees, and how multi-generational communities form children with the development they need to mature well.
Check out Dr. Sax's work: www.leonardsax.com
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro Sequence
00:38 Introduction
01:56 Welcome Dr. Sax
02:20 Sax's Medical Background
03:11 Why He Wrote "Why Gender Matters" in 2005
07:11 Boys' and Girls' Different Sequence of Brain Development
08:36 Good Ranchers
09:22 Boys Play with Trucks and Girls with Dolls
12:15 Monkey Experiment
14:04 2 Visual Systems in the Brain
16:54 How Kids Draw Differently
22:01 Seven Weeks Coffee
22:41 Energy Differences?
23:57 When You Encourage Kids Rightly
26:29 Combat vs Energy
27:07 Why Boys
28:58 Biological Evidence for the Differences
31:13 Rarity of Intersex
35:08 Every Life
35:49 Why Gen Z Girls Aren't Attracted to Boys
39:46 The Bridge to Trans
41:49 Perfect Storm For Trans?
45:26 Lord of the Rings's Female and Male Characters
49:32 Lack of Multi-Generational Community
54:18 The Power of Inter-generational Community
58:57 What Mormons Get Right
59:28 What Causes Separation Between Generations
1:00:55 Effect of School Structure
1:02:05 The Foundational Gender Differences
1:03:34 Gender is 2 Dimensional?
1:07:08 Can We Know Why These Gender Differences Exist?
1:09:12 Wrap Up
A friend gave birth to a baby girl. Her husband was hands-on in taking care of the newborn. One day, they saw their much older firstborn son take his baby sister's doll and started carrying it around the house. This happened quite a bit, and my friends have started to worry about this behaviour. And so they asked their son why he is playing with his sister's doll. His answer floored them (and gave them relief, as well) - "i'm pretending to be daddy caring for our baby"
Ong, why were they worried. Of course kids repeat what parents do, don't have to be a genius here
The innocence of children is truly heartwarming! Our sons, aged 5 and 4, are always making me smile! They'll build a fort with the couch pillows, design a cozy corner for their stuffed animal, and say it’s a space for their "baby." They say it's to prepare for protecting their baby future sibling 🥹. Then, after gently tending to the “baby” (feeding and changing the diaper) they're having wrestling matches on the other side of the fort and jumping off the couch 😂 Cracks me up.
I’m not pregnant, but our boys have seen numerous photos and videos of my husband and me caring for them when they were tiny babies. They adore those pictures. ☺️♥️
@@marianemashkalo4182 Projecting their own 🗑️onto the kid.
Both of my boy toddlers have been playing with a baby doll in anticipation of their little sister being born. Not only is it fine, I think it's awesome that they're wanting to be good older brothers caring for their sister.
It's simple, if a child makes something explode while playing, it's a boy!!! 😂
No more studies needed!!! S9 much money saved!!! Maybe we can tackle other issues now!!!
My daughter wrestled with her three brothers growing up. They were stronger than her but she just brought out her claws. She also climbed the trees and played in the mud. She also really enjoyed tea parties.
I was a girl just like your daughter. I would wrestle for hours with my brother and would climb trees and play in the mud. My mom thought it was so adorable she would just take pictures while my grandmother looked horrified of me covered in mud. I turned out to be extremely feminine in my adult years and I have a strong maternal instinct. So interesting how we grow up
Yes my daughter is the oldest with soon 4 brothers. Yes she wrestled with them and does a lot of boyish things. But simultaneously is very nurturing, and talks about wanting to be a mother one day
Never could understand why Americans consider climbing trees as masculine or tomboyish activity. Where I'm from we girls climbing all the trees and we considered being called a tomboy an insult, it was like calling the girl a name. But the tree climbing both girls and boys did that equally.🤷♀️
It's episode 99. You should do a special for episode 100. Let it be a celebration Lila!! Woo hoo!!!!
I read Dr. Sax’s book, the Collapse of Parenting, and it completely changed my world. So excited to watch this and read his 3 other books.
He seems resistant to entertaining Lila’s ideas toward gender. She seems right!
I’m sorry but I don’t think this interview worked at all… it’s a shame because the matter at hand is so interesting and important. But the interviewee didn’t seem in the mood to collaborate with Lila’s questions, and seemed just rude and annoyed at her very polite and articulate points. Maybe he was just tired and I’m not judging him, but I don’t think he did a good job this time around. Thank you both for your effort anyway
I actually found er rude to him. She wanted him to answer a certain way that she agreed with and was annoyed that he wouldn't give in.
Maybe he was tired. I'm a big fan of his. You should read his books and listen to his other interviews.
He is the one with the decades of data and clinical observation. Lila has anecdotal experience through her own family and children. He is simply keeping the facts straight. That’s not rude. Again, I think it’s a clear demonstration of gender differences- Lila is more social and collaborative. The Dr. is more data focused. Just a different style.
My daughter was a machine! Never stopped moving! She loves to wrestle & loves swords ⚔️ & lightsabers! She is very artistic as well.
I'm sorry but I feel like this guy likes to hear himself talk. He has the stereotypical doctor attitude that "I'm a doctor and I know more than you".
True! But he also does seem to know a lot in this case 😂
It's not like he's spent decades studying this or anything 😅 yes most doctors are crap. But not all
I’m glad you closed the show with your conclusion and I’m glad he conceded that it was a fair conclusion. I’m a little confused at your guest’s position because on the one hand, he made his point saying there are biological gender differences, but on the other hand, didn’t seem to want to acknowledge innate differences in gender behavior.
I think Dr Leonard didn't want to endorse Lila's conjecture without being able to back that up with data which is as it should be in my opinion. He wasn't necessarily saying that Lila's hypothesis is wrong (or right) - simply that the data to support it isn't there.
It’s tough right? Because we like Lila. My house has heirlooms (art and paintings) that are 5 generations old. The whole family could paint, carve, and stitch. Literally, I have yarn based wall art that looks like a painting. Men and woman were far more artistic and well rounded 150 years ago. I’m not really sure why, but I can tell you that they weren’t gender confused (because they all had strong families).
In the 90-ties as an elementary school kid we used to spend most of our afternoons running around our city neighborhood.
And we naturally were dividing ourselves in sex based groups, give or a take a lone younger sibling tagging along the group of the opposite sex, because had nowhere else to go.
We girls if we were not jumping rope or playing on carousel and swings, we were climbing trees or looking for best places to make a cosy and 'homey' bush-sitting-place, also crawling and climbing spaces to look for best hiding spot to make a little 'homey space', or plucking clover flowers and making wreaths, things like that.
Boys were most typically playing soccer or basketball. Lots of movement, competition, fight pretend, and so on.
Sometimes we were doing things together, like playing hide and seek.
Exactly.
This is such a great conversation wow I love the ability to push back and have a friendly discussion where you disagree or don't align perfectly.
It was so weird how he didn’t want to “give in” to your very basic notion at the end - That women are designed to mother and men are designed to father and our biological differences are centered around that aim.
My only guess as to WHY he would resist that…is bc it’s so basic, and so easily understandable…that he worries his doctorate and expertise and his books and his courses would be undermined, devalued, or seen as unnecessary….if he were to admit that it is REALLY just that simple! Lol.
He thinks he NEEDS people to believe that it’s all much more complicated and nuanced and complex in order to keep selling himself and what he has to offer. But actually, this is a lie that he’s telling himself. Lila’s conclusion on gender is a conclusion that is INNATE…and one that I’m sure all of his clients and readers of his books very easily come to on their own, and yet they still value what he has to offer on the subject. There is no need for him to reject the obvious - so I wish he would stop. It would actually make for a much DEEPER and more meaningful conversation if he would.
pride certainly keeps us from wanting to attest to fundamental truths. even those who don’t have a vocation to marriage become spiritual fathers and mothers.
Yeah it got really confusing at the end, Lila seemed to be bringing his own points back to him about the innate nature of boys vs girls as it relates to the drawings and he seemed resistant... but why though? I felt like I was learning so much and by the end I felt so confused 😕
It’s because whenever he talks about gender differences in academia he is accused of saying we should roll back womens rights by implying they have to be mothers. So he just wants to point out differences he can prove and not give any speculation on why it is there which cannot be proven.
I find the research quite fascinating but the messenger to be incredibly rude and condescending. This was a hard listen.
He certainly seemed irritable this time
I thought I was the only one who found his manner quite abrasive. I can’t watch anymore.
I agree.
Schools let out much earlier when I was a kid and we didn’t have ½ the extra activities, kids do today. The family is fractured. Also the parents have to work more.
Back in the 90ies we kids spent our afternoons on our own running around neighborhood. No adult supervision. Not saying it was perfect, and perhaps a mix of free range and extra activities would be probably best, but my point is, we kind of organized ourselves socially on our own, and that was great to find out who we are and what we like but also how we relate to each other.
They don’t have to. Women don’t have to work at all if they are married and live frugally. The problem is most American families want a lot of processed food and consumer junk. None of that is necessary and in fact is detrimental to a quality life. We need to refocus on mothers in the home, real food from scratch and children only starting school at 6 or 7. Preferably home school or private school. The government monopoly on “education” needs to end. It’s destroying society to indoctrinate children in harmful ideology and test taking skills.
This interviewee seemed to want to repeat the vulgarities. It was gratuitous. It wasn’t necessary after the first explanation, and even that could have been stated less pornagraphically.
Lila is the best.
I grew up in the Netherlands and am now living in the states. An observation I have found is in Europe we truly do follow scientific evidence in schooling and professional help. I find in America everyone is so extreme in their thoughts whether left or right. Yes Europeans are very liberal in morals and values. But they do still have common sense and discourse is much more civil without nefarious agenda’s. I have a masters in child and family development and we indeed were taught all about these gender and developmental differences among boys and girls and how to apply them in schools and counseling settings for parents and children. It’s very disturbing to see the social sciences here either being demonized by the right or being taken over by nefarious people with an agenda on the left. I notice too how much I dislike the entire school system here in the US. There’s a reason they are very behind overal in educational quality with the rest of the developed world.
Thank you Lila for your podcasts and bringing these things up! You’re my favorite podcaster right now!
Another thing I noticed is a huge difference btween Europe and US, here in Europe, we still have this way more physical model for the children to grow up, even with modern twists like Montessori and Valdorf educational styles getting more and more popular. But in any case, children here play and run and move and are being disciplined when they do cross the limits and in US, it seems like they dont discipline but diagnose and put kids on meds for being kids. We also have a better approach to sports for kids, it feels like sport if a hobbie for everybody, where in the US, it seems like when a kid is enrolled in a sport it is always high intense, expected to become a career and overall not every kid engages in sports, changing them, shifting fro one sport to another as they grow or change schools, friend groups, etc. One final thing, in my country Bulgaria, in kindergarden, up until 7 yo, kids have conditions to take an afternoon nap and most kids do all until 7 yo. I feel like this nap is really beneficial for the childrens behaviour during the second part of the day and in US, I think they cut naps around 3 yo 😢
Lila, I love the way you held your ground at the end of the conversation. Of course you're right about the point you were making. We don't need an evolutionary biologist to confirm the obvious, to confirm what we have known since the beginning of mankind.
Just finished with book Boys Adrift and have this one at home from the library already waiting for me to start 🤗
Well done, Lila! I completely agree with your conclusion. Thank you!
Could it have anything to do with all the hormones and chemicals in our foods?
Heads up: don't listen around children.
I should have included that note in the intro!
Why would anyone listen to her podcasts around kids lol
He seemed weirdly cold and unengaging
Yes! Lola. You summed it all up.
I meant Lila… sorry.
Mom needs to smell well so she can avoid foods for herself and her baby that are spoiled. Dad needs to understand space and movement based on learning to hunt foods and/or kill others in battle. And why families are fractured is correlated with television, intergenerational contact dwindled due to the introduction of tv, culture changed and attitudes changed.
Thank you for this episode 🙏 I have ADHD so sorry for all the comments .... Keep up the good work ❤
This was amazing
I also think that being gay/bi for younger women is becoming trendy. I had come across an article that talked about how the rates are increasing for young women to identify as gay or bi, especially bi, yet have never been with another woman in any capacity, but also claim to be interested in women though there’s no indication of it. I haven’t been exposed to the dr’s experience in the sense of women feeling degraded sexually and so have started expressing interest in the same sex due to this degradation, which would make sense, but I’m surprised that the trendiness of being LGBT+ wasn’t also touched on here! Add in the fact that young people feel the need to conform to woke conventions and victimhood to fit in/stand out, and you get people wanting to identify more and more with “intersectionality” points, i.e. I’m disadvantaged because I’m a woman but I’m also bi now, too. Plus, the fact that I think masculinity is being torn down in certain ways (just like femininity is being torn down, as well) and it’s almost seen as “uncool” to be interested in men who are “oppressors, right-wing”, etc.
That might be a hot topic, but I would add those factors are a big part of the equation, as well.
True. I said pretty much the same thing, but you worded it very well
Can you share the name of that, kind of want to read it.
I also agree that it's a trend.
If I can add to his point however this person points out when it seems to have started and the reasoning.
"What’s wrong with being straight? Heterosexuality is now deemed déclassé by Gareth Roberts"
You can even find people making post like this.
"is it bad im ashamed of being a cis straight girl?" I saw one where a woman mentioned she would be ashamed if her child was straight.
Apparently this line of behavior has a name, Heteropessimism or heterofatalism, basically ashamed or embarrassed of being straight.
Yes it is partly a trend and women girls are prone to hysteria and trends. But it’s also partly because society is teaching women to hate and fear men and marriage. Also, bi is not a genuine thing. It’s one thing for women to be curious about other women, but at the end of the day that’s not a valid relationship, it’s simply a curiosity about women’s bodies that can be resolved through understanding the female body and the functional aspect of male/female dynamics. Women are very attractive, God designed us that way. And some women are more attuned to that aesthetic beauty than others. It doesn’t make you “bi”.
I think these explanations contradict each other... first it is argued that boys and girls prefer to do different activities (or ways in which that activity is performed) based on evolution and biology, just as seen in chimpanzees. But then it is also argued that it is the responsibility of the older generation to teach boys to be boys, and girls to be girls. How can these two go together?
I really liked Lila's hypothesis, thank you for the video and great work!
I thought that was explained by the Japanese tea example i.e. kids are born with innate gender differences (protect vs nurture) but the masculine/feminine activities are culturally defined, and a child has to learn to be a man/woman within their culture.
@@ontita2080 This was a genuine question I had. That makes sense now, thank you!
The problem with his argument trans identification isn’t caused by body image issues because body image issues existed prior to it, is that trans identification wasn’t a normalized option to escape it. It’s possible that is a cause but it didn’t occur in the past because it was an available option to girls with body image issues even if they were as common in the past.
However my daughter has Apraxia a speech disorder. She was diagnosed at 3 years old. So she really expressed herself physically because the words were not coming out....she was pushing the boys around at daycare. Now she loves to wrestle & play but loves her dolls....so maybe that's why....
Don’t put your kids in daycare. That’s why she’s pushing boys around. Not her slow speech. Kids belong home with mom until age 6 or 7 when they are ready for school.
38:45 Fair and interesting point. Today, I know several different women one might call casual friends. When we come across one another, be it at church or a 4-H meeting or whatever, we talk and discuss things. But there's no special social rules I follow. It's pretty much the same as talking to a guy except you have to be a little more refined. Way back in the day, men and women did not just freely intermingle in quite the same way they do now.
Now, I'm not opposed to male/female intermingling; I especially think already having several female friends can be a good thing for a young guy, especially for when he does decide to start dating. In the very least, even if he doesn't date any of them, he will at least know how to act around women. But it has to be tempered with an understanding that you don't just do whatever you want with women. This is done pretty well in rural areas but I don't know about a liberal urban culture - they seem to be the source of most modern problems.
I think it's great for a young man to have female friends (platonic, _not_ dating), especially if he doesn't have sisters. That's how he's gonna learn about women and understand them better. It's one of those things that men don't think they need until they experience it. I've heard from many men how they benefited from having female friends and also that they were themselves surprised about it. It taught them to understand women better, not treat women as entirely different species or put on imaginary pedestal. Would your experience be similar?
@@joane24 Certainly. This is why I think people who wish we could be in some kind Islam-like society where men and women are totally segregated don't know what they're talking about. And I think it's critical. When I was twelve years old, I was deathly afraid of girls, especially pretty ones. I actually could not speak to them intelligibly. Now I'm fine, like talking to anyone else. (I'm eighteen, though, so if that wasn't the case it would be pathetic.) Young men need interaction with young women. Especially in today's culture, where it's so easy to get swept up into angry redpill type stuff that a guy will absolutely go bonkers if he doesn't have any positive female friends to keep him grounded in reality.
@@gunsgalore7571 Exactly. Btw even in Islamic societies, they have large families with sisters and many, many cousins, so they actually may be quite surrounded with female peers. The strict social segregation of gender occurs outside of family members and kin.
I think it's funny that he says he's not a big fan of the Mormon religion because he says a lot of stuff that the "Mormon" religion believe in and he backs up stuff that we feel is under attack and needs to be defended. I'm a Mormon and I'm a big fan of his.
Well he could just be opposed for theological reasons. For instance, I am a Catholic. I am not a fan of either the Mormon faith or Evangelical Protestantism, but I agree with both on pretty much all the big social issues of our time. Two different religions can agree on some things but disagree on other things.
I appreciate the presentation of REAL science and REAL studies! Philosophy and morals only go so far. This proves we are RIGHT
My daughter loves her dolls & loves video games. Minecraft is her favorite. My daughter loves romance movies that are 7+ & loves Starwars & Marvel movies. My daughter is turning 9 in April.
There is a resorting to sadistic-ness.
He’s got a lot of very strong points though a little cantankerous and not someone who wants Lila summarizing his points. The community of men and boys and community of women and girls is a great point. Love this. I agree intuitively bc I benefited from working with my Grandma every summer from 2nd grade through a Senior in High School. My mom was working full time so I didn’t see her much…but grandma was there so much for me as well as my sisters. As far as his push back with the amount of time kids are spending away from home, I would ask for more info bc some areas are different. My gut tells me 40 years ago women were not working as much outside the home, so they were there when the child got home from school and on the weekends. Also, I think there was less emphasis on organized sports and club sports on the weekends 40 years ago. I’ll quibble with him on this just bc I think he dismissed that part to readily and needs some back up here. But overall, lots of strong points to chew on.
You're almost at episode 100! Behind every good man is a good woman, so we need the complimentary sexes! We're different but equal in dignity. There's various systems in the human body and they're all complete in and of themselves with the exception of reproductive system, and all human beings proceed from the sexual union of men and women.
Similar to how speech is ordered toward truth, sexuality is ordered toward 2 things: Unity and procreation
Human sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his or her body and soul.
Walking through life as a woman or as a man affects all aspects of the human experience.
If you were made a woman, you were made good as a woman. If you were like me only experiencing life as a man, you were made good as a man.
Eve is taken from Adam's rib.
Not foot, or head. Right in the middle.
Men and women compliment each other.
Genesis 2:21-24 So the Lord God cast a deep sleep on the man, and while he was asleep, he took out one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. The Lord God then built the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman. When he brought her to the man,
the man said:
“This one, at last, is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;
This one shall be called ‘woman,’
for out of man this one has been taken.”
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.
“If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other.”
-Saint Mother Teresa of Calcutta
Thank you for continuing to do 2 episodes a week!
Happy Fun over Fear Friday, Lila! Prayed for you and your family in my Rosary this morning!
I hope and pray that soon Dr. Jordan Peterson and Tammy his wife can join you in your podcast. 😊❤
Mothers of boys always like to say how girls are so passive, nice and not energetic. I have one of each and so far, my daughter is much more energetic, my son is more of a thinker, he doesn't destroy stuff, like my daughter loved and still does occasionally 😅
Lila didn't want to hear him talk and it showed. She was extremely rude with him. She kept trying to corner him into answering what she believed kept cutting him off and would get visibly frustrated and annoyed when he wouldn't give in.
46:38 not true, Sam married the ordinary hobbit girl at the end. Looks are impotent for women because men are VISUAL. As the dr already knows from his research on the male brain. This is evolutionary.
1:07:24 He is ridiculous in avoiding this basic evolutionary biological FACT. It’s NOT conjecture. My degree is in evolutionary biology. These are basic facts. Women nurture men protect & provide. And they need to be raised and acculturated as such. When they are not, we see the mess and chaos it creates.
At first I wasn’t sure about the Interviewee and found him a bit impolite but the more the conversation went on Lila kept interrupting him and clearly wasn’t interested in the real science he presented but just wanted a confirmation of her hypothesis. He truly is a man of knowledge and I’m definitely gonna buy his book(s) to learn more!
I had the exact same impression and was hoping as the interview went along that Lila would just let him talk!
I hear what you’re saying. I think he just wanted to complete his thought but I also appreciate Lila’s further questioning. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed both of his appearances on Lila’s podcast and highly recommend his book The Collapse of Parenting, even if you’re not a parent. It’s quite illuminating regarding the issues impacting gen z.
Absolutely disgusting the language used in the presence of a lady wow....
Yes, very distasteful and upsetting. I thought it was gratuitous and gross! I appreciate the message shared but I actually found Dr. Sax to be disrespectful in this episode to Lila. She held her ground gracefully but he came across as abrasive and dismissive, talking over her.
Imagine how the girls feel when they are pressured to preform these acts… we cringe at hearing it but these girls are living it.
She is struggling at school...it's boring... Too much sitting
Kindly go through your E-mails , surely you will not regret , Hope you revert back soon ,
I don’t like this guy lol
So this guest was not worried, when only boys were succeeding, but became very concerned when girls started suceeding😅😅
Thank you for this episode 🙏 I have ADHD so sorry for all the comments .... Keep up the good work ❤